Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 528 - Tim S. Grover & The Ugly Side of Winning

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

Tim S. Grover is the CEO of ATTACK Athletics, Inc. He is a world-renowned personal trainer, keynote speaker, and best-selling author. He is famously known for his legendary work with elite champions and Hall of Famers, including Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and hundreds other NFL, MLB, NBA, and Olympic athletes. Tim Grover is the preeminent authority on the science and art of physical and mental dominance and achieving excellence. Tim Grover’s recently released book, Winning, focuses on the 13 specific principles of unbeatable performance. Tim's newest book, "Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness" here: https://amzn.to/2SmyJg3 And "Relentless: From Good to Great to Unstoppable" here: https://amzn.to/2QLJxns Subscribe to the NEW Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Eat Rite Foods: http://eatritefoods.com/ Use ode "POWERPROJECT25" for 25% off your first order, then code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off every order after! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Piedmontese Beef. Now, Nsema, you and Mark, you guys had a nice little bromantic session over at his pad. You guys had a big old barbecue. What did you guys have? Yeah, we had a meat party. You guys met up? Meet up? Meet up.

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safety first safety first safety first um but yeah the hot dogs are so good too i know you're a big fan yeah no definitely yeah them them hot dogs are so good too. I know you're a big fan. Yeah. No, definitely. Yeah. Them hot dogs are really good. Yes. But, you know, and Seema kept mentioning Hopdoddy in case you're unfamiliar. That's just a restaurant chain out here in California. I'm not sure how far east they go, but we're talking like the best hamburger patty that

you've ever had. And it's now available at piedmontese.com. That's what I think it's a 75 25 uh you know so 75 yeah that's the cut of uh that's the ground beef that they use to make this hamburger patty uh i will admit i burnt one really really bad because i i've never i'm no i'm sorry i'm not experiencing this like extra fatty cut or extra fatty type of ground beef. So I messed one up. Okay, my bad. Something I got to live with.

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Again, PeteMontes.com, promo code POWERPROJECT for 25% off your order. Head over there right now. What up, Power Project crew? This is Josh Setledge, a.ettledge, aka SettleGate, here to introduce you to our next guest, Tim Grover. Tim Grover is the CEO of Attack Athletics Incorporated. He's a world-renowned personal trainer, keynote speaker, and best-selling author. He is famously known for his legendary work with elite champions and Hall of Famers, including Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, and hundreds of other NFL, MLB, NBA, and Olympic athletes. Tim Grover is the preeminent

authority on the science and art of physical and mental dominance and achieving excellence. Tim is the best-selling author of the national best-selling book, Relentless, from good to great, great to unstoppable. He is also the creator of the best-selling book, Relentless, from good to great, great to unstoppable. He is also the creator of the digital training platform, The Relentless System. As a keynote speaker and consultant, Tim works with business leaders, athletes, and elite achievers in any area who want to know how the best can get better in anything they do by teaching them the principles of relentless drive, result-driven performance, and mental toughness. More recently, Tim Grover's book, Winning, focuses on the 13 specific principles of unbeatable

performance. But that is a different story for a different day. Please enjoy this conversation with our guest, Tim Grover. This should be a lot of fun. Every person that I know that knows Tim Grover loves him. Andy and Sal Frisella over at First Form, they're huge fans. Ed Milet's a huge fan.

Gunnar Peterson. Gunnar Peterson was all pumped up. He's like, I'll listen in to that one. He always knock over John Cena. I don't think he's usually leaning on it. You do knock him over often. He's my age, for God's sake.

You gotta, you know, you gotta be careful with these older gentlemen. Sorry, good luck. Plus, he just does the fake wrestling, you know? He's not doing real stuff like you're doing. Yeah. So you gotta be, you gotta be cautious with someone like that. He might be fragile. Yeah.

But I'm excited to have Tim Grover on the show. I don't think anyone really, well, maybe not not maybe i've listened to a lot of his stuff um but i don't really know if people talk to him that much about training no it doesn't seem that and i'd love to talk to him a little at least a little bit about training you know to know some of the x's and o's and also um diet like because he looks like he stays in great shape. He has looked that way since the time he worked with Jordan, and he always looks like he's stayed in shape. And I think if we're going to talk about winning and we're going to talk about ways of getting ahead,

I think one thing that can really slam your ability to get up off the couch is a poor diet. Absolutely. I think a poor diet can lead into a hard, you know, a mindset that makes things a little bit more difficult. You just don't, I know if I eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches

most of the day, I just probably wouldn't be that motivated. Wouldn't even want to move. That stuff just shuts me down. Yeah, it really does. It mellows you out, makes you kind of tired, groggy. It's going to be a, I am interested in what he has to say about diet, but I'm really,

I'm really curious because I know he worked with MJ and Kobe, but he also worked with, I think, Tiger Woods and Dwayne Wade. So I'm really curious to see, like, because I remember during the documentary, the MJ doc, what was it called? Oh, yeah. The Last Dance. The Last Dance. It's like, the MJ doc, what was it called? Oh yeah. Remember, uh, last dance, last dance.

It's like, MJ was like, I took that personally. I took that like every, he took everything personally. So I wonder about that. Cause Tim probably has some insight into what that is or what that was. Um,

yeah, there's going to be a lot of cool stuff. That's going to come from this one. Yeah. Did any of you guys check out Relentless, the book? Yeah. Yeah. But I haven't checked out his new one called Winning. You know, that's, that's a, it sounds like a really cool one.

But yeah, Relentless was good. I think it was like, are you a cleaner? Are you a closer? Or there was a, there's another one. But I think ideally you want to be a cleaner. Yeah. Cause I think cleaner was the one that like wouldn't do it for the hype but then like a closer would get hyped up that sort of thing

and then the cleaner kind of just like he didn't like wait to be asked he just went and cleaned up got it you know so rose everybody else up around him too yeah yeah just getting links sent out everything good to go how's your guys weekend great i uh escaped to bodega for a few days with uh my daughter and uh my wifey and i don't know where jake was i'm not sure what he was doing now jake jake was chilling at home and he was uh he had like some school project type stuff that he had to do over the weekend. So he kind of kicked it with his grandpa. Come to find out, though, the reason why the boy woke up early on a Saturday to help with this job fair was because of a girl.

I was like, damn it. I was like, I knew it. I was like, I knew you weren't going to be all motivated to do some shit. Don't blast him on air. Yeah. I was like, i knew you weren't gonna like be all motivated to do some last on air yeah i was like i knew you weren't gonna be all motivated to do some shit on a saturday i know you gotta we gotta blast him on air right yeah that's funny that's awesome it's uh you know i'm not gonna say they had this uh job fair thing set up at his school and the kids set it up and my dad took some video and uh my dad was like it was amazing it looked cool yeah i seen it was on the news and stuff yeah yeah i seen matt posted stuff on twitter

about it and you know if i didn't have stuff going on it would have been cool to take jasmine to go see that but you know it's just one of those things it's like oh good for them but i didn't actually get a chance to check it out what did they do oh they're just like selling stuff like kids had uh some projects they've been working on and some kids like made stuff you know some kids made some art type of stuff some kids made t-shirts um some kids just sold like whatever stuff they found interesting you know and uh yeah they set up this job fair and there was my dad said there was a shit ton of people there. There was nowhere to park. And they said it was a big success.

It's kind of neat because they allow the kids to, you know, run it themselves, set it up themselves, set up the tents and set up the time and schedule and all that stuff. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. And some of those kids were making a lot of money because Matt, again, was saying, like, I remember the first time, you know, somebody made triple digits. He's like, and then I don't know if it was somebody who was waiting for somebody to make, you know, four digits or whatever. He's like, but at some point, you know, they're going to make this much. I was like, damn, that's crazy. And so I just tweeted out, I'm like, hey, can I start paying tuition right now and lock in today's rate for my son? You know,

it's going to be a couple of years. He's like, I like the way you think. Yeah. That's Actonon academy where they you know work on teaching you uh what to think you know um or i'm sorry that rather they teach you how to think rather than like what to think you know where a lot of times in school you're kind of just be you're being fed this stuff that you have to think about because it's like on the test and they don't really teach you about uh how to think and i think with today's guest that we have on today, I think this is a major key factor in figuring out ways of getting ahead, figuring out ways to win is to start to develop your own thought process and start to develop.

I mean, how many people do we run into that when they tell us how they became successful in this one particular thing, we're always like, really? Like, sounds like too simple. And you say, well, what about this? And they say, nope, I did it this way. And they just stare at you like you're the dumbest person ever. And you're like, no, that actually makes sense, though. You did that consistently for a long time.

You trailblazed your own path and you stuck to your guns. And because you stuck to your guns, you weren't flip-flopping back and forth between these, uh, what everybody else was doing. And you, you stuck with it, you stuck to it, you had consistency and there you are.

What do you think about that? Cause we've had, you know, numerous guests where we ask about like the struggle or like, you know, like, Oh, was it,

did you have a hard time when you were, you know, like Mark, you're driving around that van where you, the, the, you broke the horn and all that stuff. Like, how did you get through it?

Like how hard was it? And it's like, it seems like everyone's like, oh, it actually wasn't too bad. Is it just because people forget or like, what do you think? What, what is that? I think there's an ugly side of winning. You know, there's an ugly side of victory. And the only way that you're going to be victorious, the only way you're going to win is to be able to error correct and be able to find the errors of your ways and find what you're weak at. And my weakness certainly was organization.

My weakness was I was only dedicated and only into this one thing, which was powerlifting. And I was closed-minded a lot of times um i actually remember like the start of super training gym um was because i had a conversation with myself in my in my shitty van where it just hit me i was like my friend just told me about this new gym that's opening up and i was actually kind of a dick to him i was like i already got my own gym which i already did uh in natomas uh but it was a 900 square foot just little warehouse spot and um i could barely afford the rent there each month and i was like that's really close-minded to me i don't know why i don't know why i was kind of a dick to him i was like you need to call him up and go check out this gym and that gym was midtown strength and conditioning i was able to work out

a deal because they didn't have much equipment i brought my equipment there and they just wanted bodies in there they wanted to be exciting in there so i was able to have a free rent for almost a full year whoa that free rent allowed me to start power magazine and allow me to start slingshot. Cause I just, it opened up my bandwidth because I wasn't worried. I wasn't concerned about money or the rent or, uh, my mind wasn't so single minded on like,

how am I going to make this work? Like that part was taken away. It was taken out of the equation. And once that was, uh, and a couple other things happened in my life too, that, that where that sort of thing happened, but just being open-minded, like really open the doors for many, many, many other things.

That's a tough thing though. Like trying to be like, when I think of some of the guys that like maybe Tim has trained, it's like, you have to have like, yeah, you have to be open-minded to certain things, but you also have to be very close-minded to a lot of noise around you because there's probably going to be a lot of people in your ear telling you what you should do and what you like ways you should go about things because of like where you're trying to get or what you're trying to do. So it's like, how do you know that what you're doing is right? Yeah. Imagine being a pro athlete too. And you have so many people pulling you in so many different directions.

Imagine being a pro athlete too. And you have so many people pulling you in so many different directions. Some people want to just clamor on to your fame. Some people just want your money. It's hard to really know who's, you know, who really wants to help someone like a Bones Jones. And then why would Bones Jones even think that he needs help? Like he, he would have to be open-minded, you know, and Jordan, um, Jordan's story with, uh, with Tim is pretty amazing. I guess Tim, uh, may have sent letters out to a bunch of members of Chicago Bulls. Right. And, uh, he sent letters to just about everybody except for, except for

Jordan. Cause he was like, I'm just, I'm just a young guy. It's like, he doesn't need my help. Jordan actually is like two years older than him. And he was like, he already, it's already the best. It's like, there's no point. And, uh, Jordan was actually the only one to respond to it because Jordan heard the other players talking about it. Like you get this letter from this trainer guy who wants to like, and Jordan was kind of like of like like what is this about like what like who is this guy like why did he he sent a message to all of us who went through all

that work and i didn't get a letter yeah yeah yeah he let me out well kind of made him mad it kind of made him interested and curious right and i took it personally yeah i love that meme and he said yeah i take it personally and i said'm going to buy that person for the next 15 years. And that's kind of what he did. Yeah, he literally paid him to not work with anybody else. Yeah. Kobe's trainer was the same way when one of my friends used to be a personal trainer for Kobe. And he would just spend all day with him.

And the guy was like, I'm not allowed to train anybody else. Except for occasionally like in the off season and stuff like that. So, yeah, i think it's uh it's amazing how these different things happen but jordan had to be open-minded to recognize i mean jordan was getting his ass kicked you know at that time he was kicking a lot of ass he was scoring champion rookie of the year won the dunk competition like he he already had a logo. He already had a logo on a shoe. No one ever done that before. So now it's like, okay, well everyone's got a shoe in the league. But it was all

on convention. Whoa. I didn't know it did that. That's pretty cool. You getting buying new technology over there, Andrew? Maybe. That was interesting. But yeah, that, that, uh, you know, with Jordan, um, you know, he was just curious and he probably felt, Hey, I need to be bigger and I need to be stronger because the pistons keep knocking the shit out of me. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the crazy thing though. How much weight that he put on so quickly. I don't even know if it was quickly, but like but like his body was like he was pretty thin but then he just put on some meat you see the pictures of like him and tim training it's pretty it's pretty insane but yeah i'm curious too like what kind of stuff he had those guys do because you see pictures but i don't really know exactly what they did and if he changed it like obviously he probably got he did different things with kobe but i wonder if it was just a lot of the same stuff because it worked for

Michael. I think at that, I think at that time, um, a lot of people were probably scared to train athletes certain ways too. Um, you know, nowadays it's,

you know, it's a little bit easier. You know, if a high level athlete came to me, I would be like, all right, we'll have you pull the sled and let's have you do. And I,

if they could squat, I would have them do some squats. If they could deadlift, I would have, you all right, we'll have you pull the sled and let's have you do. And I, if they could squat, I would have them do some squats. If they could deadlift, I would have, you know, but it also makes a lot of sense for a lot of the coaches and trainers that aren't a hundred percent sure it's a lot of times what they do is get out of the guy's way and they stretch them and they have them do prehab and rehab stuff. And that's about all you'll see sometimes from some of these guys. So Tim Grover, I mean, if you watched a lot of those things that Jordan was doing, I'm sure there was a bunch of stuff that Jordan couldn't do or that he didn't like that.

Just if you don't like this certain movements or they hurt a certain way, I don't think there's a reason to really force them. Maybe there's a reason to look into why they hurt in the first place, but, um, they're doing a lot of barbell exercises and they're doing a lot of compound exercises and, um, you know, good on Tim to have the courage to even like take him down that road. But he's smart enough to know, like, this is the best way to get results. It doesn't matter that it's the best player in the world. I'm going to, I want him to have the best results possible. And so this is the way we're going to go about doing it that's the thing too i wonder like because i feel like if you're training somebody like that um they kind of they're able to bully people around to do what they want to do right so when dealing with these individuals i wonder if like he ever did get like bullied

by jordan or by kobe or by Kobe or by Woods, because you can imagine those guys have that. Like if a trainer says do this and they don't want to, well, they are goats, right? Do you, do you still try to make them do set thing or do you cower and cave and,

and do something that's more to their liking? Yeah. I've heard from some people that were working with Brett Favre. They just said, we just get out of his way. And I was like, oh, I'm like,

that's the worst. Like, but he was, Brett Favre was older. He was already a hall of famer, you know? And so it's, that's probably the easiest thing to do is just to not deal with that

personality. You know, that these people have strong personalities. And so it probably takes a lot of energy to, uh, to deal with them or to try to convince them of certain things. And so you just try not to get them hurt, try to get them more fit and try not to get them hurt.

I think is what a lot of people do. I'm also curious how much like these guys actually spend on, on like training, like, cause you hear about LeBron and it's like 1.5 or something a year on not just training, but just taking care of his body. One, you wonder, does he really have to spend that much yeah i get i mean it does pay for itself at the end of the day

because of how much he makes but like what what what is he getting charged for you know because i mean he's probably has like a personal chef and and uh someone who like cooks all his food and like does his nutrition but that he has a trainer, probably a masseuse, maybe a chiropractor. What else? We'd have to check his books. Yeah. I wonder if some of what you were saying about the bullying, they're like, I'm me, so you do this and that.

If some of it came into play when he hits up Tim in the middle of the night during the playoffs. And it was like, Hey, we need to meet tonight, you know, like in the middle of the night. And he,

you know, Jordan was flying back and forth between Chicago and wherever the heck they were playing. I always thought that that was crazy, but yeah, you know, he had to get his head right with Tim. And it's like,

that's amazing. And, but I wonder like, Hey, it was Tim down. Like, you know, how,

how does that, you know, uh, uh, what's it called? Um you know how does that you know uh what's it called um just how does that relationship work you know were they like actually friends or did he be like he got that phone call like oh shit here we go again and then curious yeah and that's a crazy thing that just shows like i guess how good of a coach he was because obviously he understood the physical side of things and how to get somebody in shape. But like he was needed to kind of like tune up these guys mentally.

You would think that they already have it all together mentally being who they are and to the type of athletes they are, but they needed to talk to this trainer to give them the right words or give them the right type of mindset to do what they do. So like that means that he just has something that most people don't necessarily understand i also think if it's sometimes simple but very difficult to grasp is that if you feel like you're not where you want to be uh in a particular field career physique strength level um and you're you know feel like you're not making any progress, then you just need to probably look at, you know, evaluate what you're doing and maybe even look at just like doing the opposite.

Like what are, you know, what are some things that are preventing you from moving forward? Usually it's only like one or two things for most people. It's usually not, it's usually not a big deal. It's usually not like, it's not like you're doing everything wrong, especially for people that already are invested in trying to get better. But I think it's a good, like, where do you spend your time? You hear people talk about that because that's normally what you're interested in. But if you only lock into what you believe you're interested in and you're not open-minded to trying new things then you might be missing out on other things that you could potentially be

interested in that you could start to implement into your life that could help move you forward as well so it gets to be really tricky to try to to try to really balance any of that out yeah and i do also like uh we have to save all these things for the show anyway but i'm very curious about kobe's like. Like, because you hear all the things he says, right? That, oh, he wasn't this and he wasn't that. And you kind of get it. But like, was that like legit? and there were more athletic guys than him in the NBA, but how much did he have to really push for his personal athleticism is what I'm curious about. Some guys have it naturally really well that it just hits them. I'm curious if he was one of those guys too.

Yeah, he's probably grading himself pretty harshly. Yeah. Right? Yeah. He probably has a pretty damn good skill set, but I think what he means by it is there's some guys can like jump up and touch the top of the backboard, you know. And maybe he's talking about like he didn't have that ability. Maybe there's a handful of guys even just on his own team that were faster or quicker, you know.

But he's, because he's studied the game so much and studied like how you know how to do it rather than just um relying on pure strength or speed uh he's probably referring to being more calculated and just putting all everything together through a lot of work a lot of repetitions yeah that was the first i've heard of that i mean i remember when kobe that he won the dunk contest right like his first year yeah i'm pretty sure he did. And I'll look it up just to make sure because you're looking at me like that. But I guess now you got me questioning it. But I'm pretty sure he did.

And, you know, he came out of high school. So he was already, I mean, fucking Kobe. What did he score? Like 80 points in a game or something? Yeah. 81. Yeah. I mean, and that's like, you know's like you know like recent yeah he won the 97

dunk contest there you go i think he might have even entered the three point or he ended up surpassing jordan in the uh points uh for his career and stuff like that too yeah he's uh he's unbelievable it must be hard to work with all these different personalities too. Oh yeah. Um, and especially cause Tim Grover said when he met Jordan, you know, when he first started communicating with him,

he was like, Jordan's like two years older than him. So that's kind of a weird dynamic too, even though that literally doesn't have anything to do with anything. It's just, uh, I could see how that would make you maybe a little bit more unsure of yourself. So he must have a little bit more unsure of yourself.

So he must have a tremendous amount of confidence as well. Absolutely. Yeah. But I think after working with Jordan, like, you know, it must have been easier to deal with all the other athletes because everyone's like, oh, this was Jordan's guy. Right. So there's already a level of respect right there. Yeah. And then even for himself, like to have confidence to tell kobe to do this and that

it's like oh this is i've been here before you're the best in the league okay i've i've seen your type like damn he's the only one that actually has i'm so sad i haven't read this book man the new one winning yeah like i read relentless a long time ago but this one this one sounds so cool and i i'm getting it today so many books to get through the past couple of weeks that's why audiobooks are so great yeah i don't know i gotta i gotta not spread myself too thin with books because then i forget shit like i'm trying to remember stuff out of relentless and i'm having a hard time going back in the archives in my head right now it's easy to do that like it's easy to get like caught up in like, Ooh, like this new one and

this new one. It really is easy to do that. But I don't know. You learn something, you learn something. There are small tidbits in every little new book that you get into. It's not good to have too many, I guess, but it's like you, you're always taking up new stuff, right? Like you're always listening to shit in your car. So yeah, it seems like YouTube videos can stick a little bit better because it's just smaller. Get right to the point.

Just get on Tik TOK, even smaller. One minute video search. Boom. Done. I like, uh, I like,

um, so Derek will do it. And then, um, Greg do set. We'll like kind of, uh, uh, critique like, um, so Derek will do it. And then, um, Greg Doucette will like kind of, uh, uh, critique TikTok, like fitness videos. Yeah. And it's so funny. Cause like, you know, they have a minute so they can only do so much.

But then on top of that, if the information is like, you know, inaccurate, it's just like it, it starts off bad and then it gets really, really bad, really fast. Yeah. But that's the thing as time goes by like people want to take in information in a faster and faster way yeah there is the internet where everything is at your fingertips there's youtube where everything was in short videos there's instagram where everything was in shorter videos and there's tiktok where everything's in shorter videos it's like we just want it and then soon we're gonna have an implant that's just gonna load it into our fucking brains.

We don't even have to read it anymore. Yeah. I think it's harder for older generations to see how the newer generation can win or can, uh, do well. You know, you always hear,

and it happens every time. And every time there's a new generation, um, the older generation is complaining about it saying, you know, we hear often that we're soft, you know, that America is really soft. And I, you know, I guess maybe in comparison to the way that we used to do things, but are we soft or are we just smarter than we used to be? Like, are we just finding just because you consume something in one minute, as opposed to read something over the course of 30 days, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're soft it might mean that you're smart it might mean that you're

advancing and so and then also i don't know you know where where you would place blame uh society uh used to hold books in higher regard than they do currently and it their books will always probably be in some they'll'll be, they'll always have a standard, I guess, because there is information in them. Um, but you kind of see what I'm getting at. Like, I think every generation is like, ah, these kids are, the country's going soft. I think more people are like getting used to not sweating the absolute details. Cause that's the, that's the thing you'll see in terms of like newer stuff or let's

say TikTok. Like there's, there's the big you'll see in terms of newer stuff or let's say TikTok. There's the big idea type of information. This is the big concept, but people don't care about the small details of everything. And I think that's something that's hard for people to wrap their heads around. It's so quick. So I heard nothing but horrible things from Andy Frisella, Sal Frisella, Gunnar Peterson.

You know, we ran some background checks and everyone has just nothing but terrible things to say about you. So it's great to get you on the show and find out all the horrible things that you know about winning today. I know this is a long time coming, guys. I appreciate your patience. So, yeah, thank you so much. What I wanted to start out with today is I've heard you more recently talking about kind of this uglier side of winning that you don't really hear talked about. And I love the fact that you're putting it into the context of that winning is a language. You hear that sometimes with love.

It's kind of hard to explain what falling in love is. It's sometimes hard to be descriptive of what winning is. But when someone is winning, they know what it is. And when two winners talk, they may speak a language that might not land on someone that has not enjoyed a lot of success just yet. And so I find that to be really fascinating. one of my favorite oh you got your dog there huh oh yeah yeah he's just like every pot every pot okay he's gotta he's gotta be he loves to be on the show all five all five pounds of him he's a

all right one of my uh one of my favorite songs of all time is We Are the Champions from Queen. And in the beginning of the song, and I think people don't listen to this part, but the actual song starts out by saying, I paid my dues time after time. I've done my sentence, but committed no crime. And I think that's what winning is, is like you have to go through some tough shit sometimes in order to come out the other end of winter. Not sometimes, all the time. That's the thing that people, that's why they quit. You know, everybody wants, everybody wants the rainbows. They want the sprinkles.

They want the confetti. They want all that stuff. And that's what we look at and we admire and all that. at and we admire and all that, but no one talks about the road in between those things where majority of the time is spent. It's majority of the time is spent. I mean, you know, look at, listen, you guys work out, obviously I work out. People, no one wants to talk about what we do every single day to feel this way, to look this way. And it's just like, oh, you must love working out.

No, if you're doing working out right, no one loves working out. All right? You may enjoy the results. You enjoy what it does for you and the feel. But the actual workout itself is if it's nothing, it's nothing fun. It's those dues being paid every single day, every single minute. And the results are not promised. They're not.

They are just not promised. And this book, what I did was I wrote, it's not about the glory. It's not about the payday. What I did was I wrote, it's not about the glory. It's not about the payday. It's about the obstacles, challenges, and the pains you go through just to be in this race, just to have winning notice you, just to say, hey, listen, I'm here. Pay attention to me. And the one day you don't, it turns us back into finding somebody else. And that's what it takes to win every single day.

And you can only win if you have to learn from losses, right? And I found it really interesting, your story about getting your ass kicked playing basketball when you were in college by a high school kid. So if you could share some of that story with us, I think that was interesting because that ended up being a great pivot point for you in your life. Yeah, you know, I was a sophomore back then. I was like, all right, playing for a D1 school. I thought I had a little thing to my game.

And there was this kid that came into gym. He was a junior. Actually, I know him very well now. I actually ended up training him. It was Tim Hardaway. All right, Tim Hardaway Sr., not junior, Tim Hardaway Sr. And he was a junior in high school, and he was shooting around in the basket. I wanted to get a little workout in, so I say, let's play a little one-on-one.

Man, he kicked my ass from the get-go until the end. I mean, it wasn't even close. It wasn't even close. And this is a kid that I literally had four years of experience on, knowledge and all that other stuff. So you got a chance to understand like, hey, man, in order to keep winning at this, how important those losses are because with each loss gives you more confidence if you do it correctly.

If you don't put your head down and you understand, hey, with every loss that I'm going to get, with every failure that I'm going to get, it's my ability to get a little bit more confident in my abilities, who I am, what I need to work on. Am I headed in the right direction? So it was an eye-opener. It literally set me straight about any aspirations I had about making money playing this game of basketball, which I already knew. But that kind of set me straight and said, all right, listen, now we need to win. This road to winning is detouring in a different direction. Not a bad guy to have a loss to. One of best dribblers like in the history of basketball. Unbelievable. I mean, people forget about the killer crossover and all the things that he used to be able to do. And yeah. So from that, I guess from that loss, did you

immediately think, okay, I need a course correct and I'm going to start maybe thinking of training people? Or did you do some other things before you were like, okay, I'm going to be a basketball trainer. I'm going to work with these athletes. Well, no, you know what I did? I was all, I was studying my exercise science and kinesiology during, during that time. But you know, every kid has an aspiration of say, Hey, listen, you know, maybe I can play basketball overseas. It wasn't, obviously it wasn't what it was at the level it is now. But when you see something like that, it's a sign. It's a sign.

And what happens is people try to defy some things for too long period of time. And they said that they're trying to, they're trying to go somewhere where it's just, it's not possible. It's just not, it's just not going to happen. So that was another, it was a moment. It's just not, it's just not going to happen. So that was another, it was a moment. Did I pivot right away? No, but it kind of set the parameters a little bit. Hey, listen, you might be better off going in a different direction. And as I finished off my degrees, you know, you go through school and everything teaches you what to think. You have

all your books, You have your education. Just like when everybody works out, they tell you, hey, these are the exercises. This is how many sets you do. This is how many reps you do. Here's what you need to eat, all of a sudden. People take the stuff from the Internet or from Instagram or from my days out of the muscle magazines, and you go in the gym. Everything tells you what to do.

magazines and you'd go in the gym everything tells you what everything tells you what to do that loss and that ability gave me the thought of how to think not just what to think because if i if everything about what to think i would continue to train the same path kept doing the same way kept on the same thing i was like you know? How can I still be involved with professional athletes, but not from a playing standpoint? And I kind of started to put a lot more focus in on the training and on the training and my book aspect of it. That was one of the moments there were many others, but that was one that kind of like got me started.

And on that note, like you mentioned, you know, in school, you're kind of taught how to think, et cetera. But when you started working with some of these athletes, like, let's say the biggest athlete we know right now is MJ, right? In what way did he think differently? Because I'm curious how you went into that situation. I don't know if you've worked with an athlete that had thought process like that before, but what caught you off guard with the way that he potentially went about things? And were you ready for that? Well, it's great. He was my first professional athlete. Oh, whoa. Okay. So yeah, he was my first professional athlete. So not a bad person to start with. But what I did before that, I worked at a local health club and people don't realize back in the early 80s the minimum wage was three dollars and 35 cents so with a mat with a master's degrees with a master degree you know you have those parents i'm like hey your ass ain't sitting at home you finished school you got to go do something

all right so i took the job at a local health club which was actually a real big step for me on how to think because again i had all again, I had all the book experience, but I had very little experience in actual practicality of the training part. So I went and took a job in that health club, worked my way up to trainer, started working with everybody from the people that just wanted to lose weight, from the recreational tennis athlete, from the kids that wanted to be able to run better. So I got a chance to really, really work on my craft. And it gave me an ability to implement things that you just knew were right,

but there was no books or anything that tells you, hey, this is the way to do things. So when I actually got the chance to meet Michael and talk to him, he had some ideas about training. He said, like, listen, I'm getting tired of taking the physical abuse from the Detroit Pistons. I want to get bigger and stronger, you know. And I said, well, why do you want to get bigger and stronger? He goes, well, so I can hit them back and it'll make me a better athlete.

And I kind of pushed back and it'll make me a better, it'll make me a better, make me a better athlete. And I kind of pushed back on it. I was just like, well, I said, you have a lot of nagging injuries that you constantly have, you know, your hamstring pulls, your ankle, your ankle injuries, your groin pulls. I said, let's address those things first. Let's address the injury part first. And then if we address those things you'll automatically be a better athlete you'll already be able to run higher you'll already be able to move faster you'll already be able to play uh play better defense so let's address those things and what we started to do was we broke the body down into you know into different sides left right up down all these you know i don't want to get into different planes and all that kind of stuff.

But we were like, okay, you spend most of the time on the basketball court going in this direction using this side here. We need to – so there's automatically going to be an imbalance here. So what we need to do is have different weights for one arm and one leg and different weights for the other arm and different leg, different reps so forth no one ever told me back then that said hey listen you know on the on the on the right leg we want you to do seven reps and on the left leg we want you to do 13 and use different weights on those on those sides people like what the hell you doing you know but it just made sense to me. It just said, why

overload one side more than the other when one side is getting used so much more than the other? Let's keep the balance, keep the balances equally and balance the body out. So once I started explaining those things to him and Mike was very attuned to his body, he was just like,

he was like, yeah, I don't know if this makes sense. I said, well, let's try it out for 30 days. And then after 30 days, if it doesn't, I'll leave. 30 days turned into 15 years. And he knew I was just as competitive as he was. And, you know, the way Michael played the game was like, like nobody that played the game, that nobody played the game. So he really enjoyed somebody who not only knew what to think, but also how to think. I love what you said there about the imbalances.

You know, when we're bench pressing, squatting, deadlifting, sometimes we could have one side that actually is pretty messed up, and we can get through it because the other side may pull you through it. If you have 100 pounds on your back, one side might be lifting, you know, 70 pounds and the other side might only be lifting 30 pounds. And we, as, as power lifters, as many of us are, and many of the people that listen to the show, strength athletes, we just, we just push it to the side because we don't have to demonstrate our, our strength and athleticism the same way, but it would really benefit us a lot too, to do some of these single leg movements to re-examine. I've had lifters in

the past that we had one guy that actually bench pressed 900 pounds and he benched really off balance. He benched very, very crooked. His left side was always lower than his right at lockout. So I just had him actually do all of his training. I had him shift over, which would, you know, you normally wouldn't think that that would work, but his pinky was on the ring on one side and his index finger was on the power ring on the other side. And when he benched that way, he benched straight. Yeah. And let me tell you did anybody teach you that?

that was a how to think moment you know what just make this little shift make this shift over here there's no book that's going to explain you that maybe now but when you were talking about right there it just made sense you figured out how to connect

your own connect your own dots and instead of copying instead of copying somebody else's just like you guys do with the show as a as a kid you know i idolized uh bo jackson and mike tyson and obviously jordan i was huge sports fan and was always all obsessed with these uh different players and what they were able to do and accomplish but i didn't really realize that my real hero was in my own household. It was my dad. And I didn't recognize that until I got older and got more mature and have my own children now and stuff like that. But I think you share the same sentiment, right? I think that your dad was a hero to you growing up, right? Oh, definitely. I mean, just to watch.

Oh, definitely. I mean, just to watch. Here's the thing. You know, you have a lot of individuals that they go through their lives and they just grind. They just grind. You hear this thing all the time. Grind, grind,, man, I'm always grinding. I'm always grinding. If you continue to grind, what are you going to end up with? You're going to end up with dust. You're literally going to dust. My dad grinded with a purpose. He knew what he wanted his life for himself, for my mom, for my brother, and for me to be. So what he was grinding for was to form a shape, to form something out of the grind. So he knew what he had to add and what he had to take was to form a shape, to form something out of the grind. So he knew what he had to add and what he had to take away in order to get that. And to watch him do that year after year after year, coming from a completely different culture, different country, and telling his mom that, hey, I'm leaving.

I'm going to raise my kids differently. This is the way I'm going to do things. That leaves an imprint on you. People like to talk stuff, but no matter how young you are, when you see those things over and over and over again, it's just like what you said. It may not leave an impression on you that time, but later on, you're like, man, you know why I'm this way? It's because I literally had an example of it every single day. I watched them go through these different obstacles. I watched them go through things that we couldn't even imagine, and they just kept winning over and over and over again. How can that not be your hero it seemed like your dad had the same mindset that you have where his mind was stronger than his

feelings yeah and you know what your mind has to be stronger than your feelings think about i always say this even us guys think about every single poor decision that we've made every single one all right where your feelings were probably stronger than your mind in every single every single one of those things you know in the chapter in the book it's called winning isn't heartless but you use your heart less and if anybody watched the last dance The Last Dance, you got to see MJ do it. You got to see the way Kobe did it. And, you know, we want to make decisions with our feelings because we're worried about – we don't want to hurt other people's feelings.

We don't want to hurt their thoughts and so forth. So we'll make a poor decision to sacrifice somebody else's the way they want to feel. And I'm an individual. I have one major problem. I always tell the truth. I always tell the truth. But it's funny, everybody asks for honesty until you're honest with them. All right? Then they no longer want to hear from you. But think about the individuals that have a hard time getting up in the morning. Obviously, you guys, the level where you're at in the clientele, majority of the clients where you guys are at, you don't have to worry about that. But think about it.

What keeps you in bed when they say, I'm going to skip this workout, I don't want to do about that, but think about it. What keeps you in bed when you say, ah, I'm going to skip this workout. I don't want to do it. It's your feelings. You know, ah, roll over, take an extra 10 minutes, hit the snooze button. Ah, you can skip today's workout. Well, what gets you out of bed? Your mind gets your butt out of bed. Your mind gets your butt out of bed.

Feelings make you overthink everything. They make you overthink everything. They make you overthink everything. Your mind makes decisions. Your mind makes decisions. That's the first step. You have to make a decision, and then you have to act on that decision. Your feelings don't want you to make decisions. They want you to make suggestions because they always give you an out.

Their suggestions always give you an out. And with those feelings, they get to choose which suggestion is best for them. Your mind understands this is the best, this is the best decision. This is what I'm going to go with. Feelings hold on to things. Your literally feelings hold on to things. All right.

Your mind, it can handle disappointment and failure. hold on to things. All right. Your mind, it can handle disappointment and failure. You learn from it. All right. You learn from it. I always say this. What's the elite, elite athletes, your elite people in business. All right. They got the shortest memories. They got the shortest memories. They don't, they don't forget. shortest memories. They got the shortest memories. They don't, they don't forget. They don't forget, but they don't constantly think about it all the time. They don't constantly think about it. You know, if the, if you, you know, in the power lifting game, if you have somebody who's constantly thinking about the weight they couldn't do, well, that means they're not in the moment for the weight that's literally under the, literally where they are right now.

So those feelings kind of hold on to those things, all of those things. Michael always used to say, you know, why should I worry about a shot I've never taken? Why should I worry about a shot I've never taken? You know, control your thoughts, control your emotions. You control your actions. And this is another adage. How many times have you guys heard this?

I know you guys deal with a lot of athletes. You know, play with emotion. Play with emotion. No, don't play with emotion. Play with freaking energy. That's what you want to play with. Because, all right, so you tell me, hey, you tell eight guys play with emotion, they're going to choose five different emotions.

All right. But, you know, the energy, energy is the same. The energy is the same. And what how do you create that energy? That mind creates that energy. You know, you have that physical energy and you have that you have that you have that mental energy where, you know, You have that mental energy where, you know, when you guys have people who's trying to lift that 900 pounds or whatever, whatever they're trying to do that an absurd amount of absurd amount of weight. It's like, yeah, they're physically there.

But what's the what's the last thing they do before they're getting that they're getting that clarity up there to do something that less than 0.001 percent of the world can probably do did you have uh feelings over what your dad was doing for a living when he uh handed you a saw when you were six years old or or was that like oh this is just what my dad does to make money this is his job it's just like you know what it's when he handed that this is you know my dad was a very money this is his job it's just like you know what is when he handed that this is you know my dad was a very educated man in the old country it was just but you know when he came over here his education then they told him it's not you know it it doesn't qualify for you to teach here she said all right so he ended up taking whatever job whatever job was available i've seen you've your homework. I'm impressed. All right. And it was just like, back then my parents couldn't afford babysitters. My mom was a nurse practitioner. She worked the night shift. My dad worked, my dad worked the day shift.

All right. So when, when there was no, when there was no school, all right, mom came home from work. When there was no school, mom came home from work. She had to sleep. And my dad was like, all right, you guys are coming to work for us. And we got a chance to see what he actually did. And he turned, he's just like, there. He handed me that bone saw and said, listen, sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to do but this is how

I provide for my family right now and I want you to understand this lesson and you know he's just like here, you guys can't sit, you know there's no internet, there's just like, here, you guys can't sit. You know, there's no internet.

There's no PlayStation. There's no little phones. So, you know, you have two kids sitting around. You got to keep them busy. You got to keep them busy. Is it the ideal way to keep you busy? No. But during that time, during that moment, he was teaching, he was teaching,

he was teaching us a lesson and we visited that, that lesson quite often. You're like dismembering bodies or something like that, right? Cause yes, in medical, you know, back in medical school, I don't know how the things are now, but you know, you have cadavers after each after each semester each quarter you have to you have to get rid of them because the new body the new bodies are coming in and the bodies are filled with from now to hide in different uh in different fluids and you just can't you just can't throw them in a garbage truck you you have to literally incinerate them you can't lift a 500 pound body and throw it into an incinerator so you have to dismember you have

to dismember the different body parts you have to dismember the arms the legs and the thing so you can actually throw in so that's i was the original dexter all right how was the original i was your i was the original i was the original dexter so in that in that thing so i mean you I mean, you didn't think much. You didn't think anything of it. It's just like, you know, you see in different cultures, you see people hunting and you see different things. So when that's where your brain is trained, that's just the way it is. It's a little different than helping your dad rake leaves, but not too much we lived in a high you know we rented an apartment in high rise

there wasn't a whole lot there wasn't a whole lot of leaves to rake during that time so this it makes me curious because you were just talking about like you know not doing things based off of emotion you know using your mind now now i'm curious in the way some of these guys think, uh, or how they go about things because we, we've had talks with a lot of like high level athletes here. Right. And we've always asked like how they go about getting ready for big lift or preparing their mind. Right. And some people like say, I get rid of emotion. Um, I try not to think I go paste off of pure instinct. There's some people that pull from negative emotions or negative energy, right?

But I feel that that can be very distracting if, but I'm curious with guys like MJ, when you hear them talking guys like Kobe, it's, it seems like they did pull from a lot of negative energy. And I'm curious how that works. Am I wrong? Oh,

they pulled from everything. See, that's what these individuals, so you got to pull from the negative, you got to pull from the positive, you got to pull from the up, you got to pull from the down, you got to know what energy to use during, during that particular during that particular time. So what I you know, what I like to talk about is it, it's, I gave it a term as the dark side. All right. And the dark side, this isn't about vampires. This isn't about Star Wars. It's about a place that you go in your mind that nobody else knows about. It's a thing that keeps you going when nothing else will.

It's that internal fire. So what these individuals do is they go to places where either people doubted them or when they had their failures. And they remember those things over and over and over again because they don't want to go back. They don't want to go back to those things. And what you said is when you talk about the negative energy, negative emotion, it's not emotions. You go to one emotion. It's not emotions. You go to one emotion. It's very important because if you have all these negative emotions coming in, then they start to form their own energy, which will basically overtake what you're trying to do. So you have to find that

one negative emotion or that one positive emotion or that one that creates clarity for you, or that one that creates clarity for you, that creates physical and mental clarity that allows you to focus at the highest, highest level. And when I talk about this dark side, it's something that's unique to each individual. You know, you take an individual who's been raised by a broken home. You have some, you'll have an individual that will use that as a crutch their whole life. You know, I didn't have this, I didn't have that. You know, they love to use the victim mentality. And then you have another individual who went through the same circumstances, maybe in a different home. All right. And they say, watch me. Like what? They're like, watch me. All right. Same energy. Same circumstances. How are you? How how do those how are those two individuals going to use them?

So that energy kept that individual going when nothing else will. You know, you go to Michael. It was Michael when he getting cut from his high school basketball team. It's Kobe when turning pro at 17. It's everybody telling him, you know, you can't do this. And then it's him going to the first year in the playoffs and shooting all those air balls against a Utah Jazz. It's those things that either haunt individuals over and over again,

and people like to push those things in the closet, or that dark energy is like, hey, they welcome those things because those things are going to be there with you all the time. So instead of throwing them away in the closet, figure out how to use them. Figure out how to use them. Winning requires all of you. It requires the good and bad, the emotion, the emotionless. It requires every single part of you, the dark, the light, all of it. Now, this makes me so curious because we were talking about this a little bit before the show.

But on the last dance, you know, you heard Michael say like it turned into a meme, but I took it personally. Like now. Yeah. Now I'm curious, like, did any of these players, not just Michael, but did any of them seem to at times manufacture some darkness like like they see something and then they they take it a certain way so that can end up being a fuel even if it wasn't really that way do you see that do you see a trend with that or is that just him yeah no it is it is and it's something that you know it could be you it could be the tone of the way somebody said hi to him or the way they gave him a high five or anything it is. It's that's that's what's internal to them. They know that's their fuel. That's their fire. Michael took everything personal, but it wasn't to prove them wrong.

It was to prove himself right. That that was the thing. It wasn't like I'm not going out there to prove all these people wrong. I need to prove myself right in these situations. And that's the difference between playing with emotion and playing with energy. If you're trying to prove everybody wrong all the time, it's an emotion. It's a constant emotion. If you're trying to prove yourself right, it's that energy. prove yourself right. It's that energy. Now you can take what somebody else said to you and you can exasperate it to whatever level you want to take it to and then use it the way you want to do it. It doesn't work for everyone. It works for very select few individuals who are so great at their craft that they're looking at every little thing to get that edge, to

get to stay on ahead of the competition, to continue to win over and over again. These individuals, you know, you have people that compete. Everybody knows these people. They compete. All right. And they compete just to finish. That's their win. They just want They compete. All right. And they compete just to finish. That's their win. They just want to finish. All right. Now, my thought about that is individuals that compete just to finish, it's getting you closer to a win in something else. Like if you

decide to run a marathon, if the three of us decided to run a marathon, there's no chance in hell we're going to win that marathon. It just isn't. All right. It just it just isn't. We have a better chance of the three of us combining together to lift 900 pounds. All right. You guys, you guys do. You guys do. You guys go up and do about the, you know, 775. And then I'll take over the rest. All right? But if you run that marathon and you finish it, all right, what is that going to lead to to your next win? Are you just finishing it, or is there a purpose behind it that's going to get you to that next win?

Then you have the people that win once. They win one time. And we all know those individuals. We have friends like that that tell us about the one win they had way, way back when. All right. Way back when. All right.

And we're polite to those individuals. Yes, we've heard this story eight times already. Yes, yes, we know what you did back then. Yeah, you got that medal. You got that trophy. We got it. Then you have the people that win at winning. And the ones that win at winning do exactly what you said. They take those little things and figure out how to continue to win at winning because they don't need motivation. Motivation is entry level. They're already at an elevated state and they have to figure out how do I elevate myself even a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And they'll take those little things that you said, I took it personally

and take it and take their game to a completely different level. So I'm, I'm, I'm curious what happens to the athlete that can't get over it. The first one that comes to mind is a Nick Anderson missing those two free throws. It seems like it was a client of mine. Really?

Okay. So then you would have a lot of insight. So for him, it seemed like, like after that I'm, I'm a huge Kings fan. So he ended up coming to play for Sacramento. And I remember any time the game was on the line,

he would sprint to the ball to inbound it, to make sure he didn't get fouled to shoot these free throws. And this was like mid season. So it wasn't even a big game. So for someone like that, for someone like that, is it that the fact that it just haunted him so much, or did he just like try to run away from it to where he never.

You gave the perfect example of what you just said, what you just said. All right. He was running. He was, he would run out of bounds to take the ball. He was running away from it. You know,

you got to acknowledge it. You got to own, you got to acknowledge it. You got to own it. You got to be, you got, you got to welcome and say, Hey, listen, yeah, you got me. You got to acknowledge it. You got to own it. You got to welcome it and say, hey, listen, yeah, you got me. You got me. I missed those free throws. Now, what are you going to do about it? You're either going to remember those things every time you go to the free throw line, or you're going to be like, all right, listen, I need to go back, put myself in this situation again, and figure out how to conquer this thing. I need to have my mind stronger than my feelings. I need to understand that winning

belongs to them, and it's my job to take it. So literally winning is now saying, hey, I own you with these free throws. You want to get back to winning, you got to go and put yourself in a situation to make these free throws over and over, over again. And he just couldn't do it. I literally, I remember them sending him to me during the middle of the season, during the middle of the season. And just because he was so mentally messed up. And, yeah, obviously, you see the guy in practice, free throw after free throw after free throw after free throw. But there's a difference for those individuals once those lights come on.

Some people notice the lights. Others don't notice the lights. He noticed the lights every single time, and he was never able to go over that. He was never able to overcome that thing. In today's society where it seems like feelings are elevated to an all-time high, it seems like people talk about their feelings a lot more. America has been accused of being soft and we have different, I guess, different ways of like learning and different ways of doing things. Now you have a lot of kids on tablets and phones and et cetera, and people are on social media commenting on each other's stuff. And there's a lot of feelings flowing around there. You know, if you go back, you know, even just a hundred years, our interaction with people, we just wouldn't interact with that many people.

interaction with people, we just wouldn't interact with that many people. Now we interact with potentially thousands upon thousands of people, even just in a given day, depending on your social media following. So what are some of your thoughts on how we can still win today? How can we, you know, obviously through things like your book, how do we teach our youth how to win today and be maybe personally responsible for their own victories? Well is what i say there's a battlefield that's going on in everybody's mind all right we got we got enough of our own battlefield going on there but what happens is we let everybody else we let every other everything every comment every little thought every little thing affect us what somebody says about what somebody says about us. So we're dealing with our own anger.

We're dealing with our own fear. We're dealing with our own anxieties. Now you let all this availability have access to what is the most valuable real estate in the world, which is right in between here. which is right in between here. And you got people and thoughts and ideas sitting in here that own that space and not even paying any rent to you. And they're constantly having these bombs go off. They're constantly telling you, you can't win. This is a terrible idea. This is never going to work. And we start to believe those things. and the other thing that we also don't do is we don't we don't let individuals fail enough so what happens is we're so busy trying to protect our we're so busy trying to protect our youth and protect ourselves and protect our images as adults and

parents and so forth that we forgot what a valuable lesson failure and losing is you know you're going to lose more than you're going to win that's you know Michael played 15 years 15 15 years all right he won six championships so I'm not a math whiz but I know six is less than half of 15 so he spent more time he spent more time losing it was seven years before he won his first championship

it was seven years between Kobe's third championship and the fourth championship but during those times every time he failed every time they failed and every time they failed, and every time as an individual, this is a very important lesson to the youth out there. All right. Every time you fall down, every time you fail at something, all right, don't jump right back up. Don't jump right back up. All up. Understand why you got down there. Understand why you failed.

Understand why you lost. Because when you stand up, you have to stand up a different person. So if you lose and fail and you jump right back up, you're standing up the same individual. You're going to get knocked down again. Society is going to kick your little, you know what, all over the place. When you fall, you fail, stay down there for a bit. When you stand up, you stand up a different person. You stand up a smarter individual. You fall and fail again, next time you stand up, you stand up a stronger individual. You fall and fail again,

next time you stand up, you're a more resilient individual. So every time you fall and fail, you learn from those things. And how do you use that thing to become a different individual in your mindset that allows you to deal with everything that's going out there? You know, it's funny. I'm sure you guys get this all the time's going out there. You know, it's funny. I'm sure you guys get this all the time. I get it. You know, people love to attack you on social media. They love to attack.

No matter, you can perform the perfect exercise and somebody's like, you got the foreign police out there saying this isn't correct, this isn't that. And if you literally respond to all those things. But it's funny. You put those people in the same room as you, now all of a sudden they're your best friends. You know, people don't want to face criticism. They don't want to face feedback because we forgot the difference between the two. And there is no difference.

It's just how you hear it. We're so busy protecting other people's feelings. We're so busy protecting our feelings that we're literally not letting their minds grow and get the stress it's needed to be able to fight those things. Do either one of you have kids, young kids? Yeah, I got kids, yep. All right. Do either one of you have kids, young kids? Yeah, I got kids, yep.

All right. When you go out and they compete in soccer, baseball, basketball, whatever it is, the participation trophies are bigger than the winning trophy. And they expect you to clap louder for the individuals that participated than for the winners. That really doesn't work in real life. There's a lot of people in life that are just participating. There's very few people in life that are actually winning, that are actually winning. Competition matters. Results matter. Winning matters. When you go through adversity, how you handle that adversity

is going to pretty much shape your thought process for the rest of your life. Did somebody constantly get you through that all the time? Did everybody tell you, oh, it's going to be okay, everything is going to be fine. So you're literally settling for an individual that tells you it's going to be okay. Are we settling for okay? Are we just settling for fine? No. Hold yourself accountable. Understand what you did as a parent.

All right. Make sure your kids are competing in something they want to compete in, not something that you missed out on your life and you're trying to live it for them and you find out why my son or daughter isn't competitive because they're competing in something they don't want to be competing in. Put them in something they want to compete in. You'll see exactly what happens. Let them deal with adversity. Let them understand some things. Your job is to protect them, but it's also to let them grow. Have you ever gotten in the line of fire of any of these

individuals that you have dealt with? um you know meaning you know it seemed like jordan was so passionate that he would hear one little thing from some random person and he would take that and he would keep that underneath his pillow and he would look at it every day and he would use that you know to get revenge on somebody uh did you like even without even meaning to you know say hey we need to bring up the strength of your calves, and then he gets pissed and does calves for the next, you know, 365 days in a row, or he just gets frustrated with you? Have you gotten in a line of fire of any of these high-level athletes that you worked with? Oh, yeah, listen, I used to get fired,

I used to get fired twice a month. You get fired twice a month. Listen, with these individuals, they're so used to having yes people around them. Yes, yes, yes. So you have an individual that comes in that actually holds them accountable that, you know, when they do something incorrectly or they do something wrong, you point it out. You have a discussion. You have a discussion about it. It's usually a heated discussion, but they know they're so competitive that they want you to be just as competitive as they are. They don't back down. They don't want you to back down. And it was funny, before I could even mention a mistake or something, before I could say something, they would already know it. They'd be like, I got it. I got it. I already know what I made. I already know what I did wrong and I'll fix it. When I first stuck with the first road trip I took with MJ, we were driving to that. We all were driving to the airport. You know, we all had our, we all had

our set. We all had had separate cars. He was in an automobile. I always said, Michael didn't drive cars. He drove automobiles, much higher level. And he told us all, you better keep up. You better keep up. That wasn't just getting to the airport. That meant in everything that he was doing. Everything he was doing.

He said, you better keep up. So he had already, you know, everybody talked about raising the bar. He literally just took the bar and just burned it because he goes, if I set a bar, I'm limiting myself. I'm limiting myself. You know, Kobe had this thing, you know, one of his commercials, and he goes, you know, the one with Kanye West, they always talk about more, more winning, you know, more success, success, add success. That's how these individuals thinks. And that's how they wanted you to think. And the reason I was able to get these clients is because I said I was just as messed up as as they were. I was just as messed up as, as they were.

This, so this makes me curious because, um, you, you know, earlier you were talking about some people win once, right? And that's it. Like they always talk about that one when they had, um, but a lot of the people that we're talking about here won multiple times. Right. And it makes it, what I wonder is like, when you've won a few times and you want to improve you somehow have to try and find some weaknesses or flaws within what you're doing even though what you're doing is already allowing you to continue to win so what type of level of analyzation goes into

these like do these players have when they're like oh i've won three we're this great uh what do we need to do to win three? How do they do that, even though they're already at the pinnacle? What goes through their mind? Well, you know what? With each one, what goes through their mind is that feeling of winning that you can only get through winning. It's like, if I come back exactly the same, I'm not going to have this feeling again. I'm not going to have this feeling again. So they look at the, you know, everyone talks about the 1%. These individuals look at the.001% of how to get better.

Just that little, little, that little thing to say, okay, listen, I need to be able, you know, what can I do to be able to see the defense a little quicker? What can I do to be able to see the defense a little quicker? What can I do to be able to have more clarity? One of the things that we used to do in our training on a regular basis is we used to create as much chaos as we possibly can in their training regimens. I'm talking about with music they didn't like and I'm talking about with flashing lights, all kinds of stuff to make sure that they were able to focus and stay focused during these different things. Because you know, as an athlete ages, their athletic ability is going to diminish slightly. We try to minimize

that as much as possible. But we try to like, okay, now that we know that the fiscal gifts are diminishing, how can we make the mind stronger? How can we have the ability to see things? How do we have the ability to read things? How do we have the ability to block out different distractions? So it's like all these different things that we used to constantly play with. All right. So you know what?

The thing I used to do so often with my athletes is I used to work the muscles that nobody paid attention to. my athletes is I used to work the muscles that nobody paid attention to. Oh, I suppose we used to spend Lily after we were done. After the training was done, I would spend another 45 minutes on working all the different fingers and the thumbs and the wrists and the ankles and all that other stuff. You know, you've never seen an ad, you've never seen an athlete point out go out on the basketball court or in the weight room. And somebody says, man, that person's got great fucking ankles.

They really got it. Because people are looking at the biceps and the chest. So paying attention to those little things, the intricacies of how all the different toes work, just parameters of different things that nobody else pays attention to and showing these individuals that, hey, you're so elite, but if we can figure this thing out, you'll have that 0.01% that's something that nobody else has. And it was a meeting that we used to have literally the day after the championship, say, okay, what do we need to do to get this feeling again so i can be better and they would tell me that they would have their ideas i would have my ideas and we would kind of i would try to put a plan i would put a plan together for them to excel in those things when we first it's paying attention it's

paying attention to details that nobody else will pay attention to. You know how they say, don't sweat the small stuff. When you're that elite, you have to sweat everything. Every little detail. When we first connected, you had said something along the lines of getting winning to just recognize you. I think I have an idea where you were going with that. And I love the concept. But can you explain or go a little bit further about what you meant by that? And how can somebody get winning to recognize them? Well, the first thing you have to do for winning to get to recognize you is understand that it is hard. And when I was writing this book, everybody said, have to put the title has to include steps in it.

You know, it has to be like five easy steps to this or 10 steps to this. And I'm like, winning doesn't recognize steps because those steps are totally infinite. So you have to stop looking for winning is not looking for the short way. It's looking for the right way. You have to understand there are no easy steps. And those steps are constantly moving. They're constantly changing. They're constantly disappearing. And the individuals that's willing to not only climb those steps, but sometimes sit on those steps, crawl those steps, trust that those steps are going to shift, knowing that a step might not even be there,

but have enough belief in yourself that said, hey, I'm going to take this step. And when you climb all those steps, notice that, man, I'm still at the beginning. I'm still at the beginning. Because winning, as I said in the book, plain and simple, winning fucks with your head. It fucks with your head. It does.

You go in there and you just think you had this greatest workout and you, somebody else comes in and you're just like, you had your best bench day. And some guy you haven't, don't even know comes down and sits on the bench and he uses your, your maximum weight as a fucking warmup. All right. And you're like, what the hell is going on? What is going on in there? You have to know it's not going to be easy.

There are no easy steps to it. And then once winning sees you that you're willing to do everything possible, it may pay attention to you. But it's not going to be fair. Winning has no loyalty to you. Everybody wants that. You know, everybody thinks winning should be loyalty. Winning has no loyalty to you. None whatsoever. How many times have you seen somebody who didn't work as hard as you did end up getting the job. All right. Somebody who didn't train as much ended up getting that win. It's not fair. It's not fair. But winning wants to know that, hey, no matter what I throw at you, are you prepared to stay in this unforgiving race? The steps are a good analogy, I think, because, you know, you start to do all these steps

and you feel great about it. Maybe you know, you start to do all these steps, and you feel great about it. Maybe you are winning. Maybe you do get ahead. But just like taking the stairs of the Empire State Building, eventually you get to the top, and eventually you got to come back down, and you have to kind of start over. And maybe when you're at the top, you recognize like, oh shit, like, look at all the other stuff I left behind in my effort to be so good at this. Maybe I should start to invest my time somewhere else. Maybe I should start to think about what I'm going to do with business or what I'm going to do with the rest of my life instead of just being a knucklehead meathead weightlifter. Yeah. I mean, listen, you always, you transition every, every, every great winner is always one in something else.

You always see that they're constantly evolving. The competitive nature doesn't stop. I mean, you know, the late, great Kobe Bryant, after he retired from basketball, won an Oscar, wrote children's books, was getting into the movie industry. So they constantly understand that with every single win, that you have to continue to win in other things. You know, some of the stuff that's out there all the time, I just don't, I actually think it holds people back. And, you know, this is one that I always talk, they talk about, you know, it's not about the destination.

It's about the journey. What the hell are you taking a journey for if you don't know the destination? If you're climbing that Empire State building, you know where the destination is. It's all the way in the top. People love to use, oh, in the journey, I get

to grow so much. Well, yeah, you do love to use, oh, in the journey, I get to grow so much. Well, yeah, you do get to grow, but what are you growing into? What are you growing? Are those growths actually going to lead to wins? Are they actually going to lead to wins? How about growing and winning? Instead of just growing, define it a little bit more. Say, I'm going to grow in, I'm going to grow in winning. And that's what these individuals do. They win in multiple things over and over and over again. You know, listen, you guys have had your fitness careers,

you know, your powerlifting careers, whatever it is. Now you've won at that. Now you're winning at this. When it's time for you guys to win at something else you win you win at those things but exactly what you said winning doesn't recognize what you did over here it doesn't care it it doesn't care one of the great comments that kobe made when he when he first hired me a reporter asked him and said, hey, listen, you hired MJ's trainer. He goes, what do you think about him?

He goes, I don't know. He ain't done shit for me yet. He goes, ask me at the end of the season. What he did for him doesn't matter. That's like the last one. What you guys did on your last podcast, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Are you winning at this podcast?

And are you going to win at the next one? Are you going to win at the next one? When you mentioned Kobe right there, I want to know about this because, you know, whenever athletes get into a certain sport, like powerlifters getting into powerlifting, they look at some of the greatest in the sport and they try to replicate that when i got into jujitsu i started paying attention to hadra gracie because he's the greatest jujitsu competitor of all time and i try to pay attention to everything that he's done and when kobe always talked about basketball he was like always looking to at michael like at his shadow you know what i mean and i heard kobe say certain things like oh i wasn't the most athletic i couldn't jump out of the gym, etc. And we watch Kobe play like he has great athleticism. But I'm curious, was he inherently saying that in comparison to Michael? Like, because Michael could jump out of the gym, he was super quick, super fast. Was he always comparing himself to Michael in that sense? And is that one of those things that people need to do? Like have a,

I don't know, have a comparison or a blueprint that is just out there that they're aiming for. If it, if it works for you, if it works for, if it works for you, you know,

people sometimes, this is what I said. What, what did you say? You were in your jujitsu. You're like, Hey, I'm emulating the best of the best

so people always used to give a copy a hard time to be like hey you know oh you walk like mj you do everything like them well if you're going to emulate somebody emulate the damn best that's out there all right but do you have the ability do you have the talent do you have the mindset to do do those things you have to find somebody that you can relate to and not copy them identically. Learn from them. Understand what they do and make it your own. You know, there's that, oh, Kobe was just like, listen, yeah,

I watched MJ. I studied MJ. It was not to be the next MJ. It was to be a better Kobe Bryant. I could take some of my things that he did and see if I could implement it in my game. One of the things we used to work with Colby, Colby used to say, hey, man, I want to be able to do, you know, like MJ with the fake with the ball. I said, Colby, you don't have a chance of doing those things.

I said, MJ's hands were absolutely massive, massive. So there's some things that you just you're not you're not going to be able to you're not going to be able to emulate. So what he did was like, OK, I can still do do the fakes but now i need to hold on to the ball differently i need to hold on to it in a different different grip i may need to hold on to it in two hands or use a different different type of pump fake or how can i do that fake and create something off of my create something off of my footwork. And that's a constant ability to learn to learn something. Listen, you do need to fight. You do need to watch other people because that's one of the ways to make it a little bit set to make it a set, make it a little simpler.

But don't copy what isn't unique to you. How are you able to help some of these high level individuals to be able to recognize their flaws? Because I feel like flaws are kind of like ugly babies. If they're our own, we're not going to recognize it. So how did you help? Because, you know, if you I've heard you kind of have that quote before about looking in the mirror and how it's really hard to notice the errors of your ways. really hard to, you know, notice the errors of your ways. And we don't even want to admit them. And even if we know they're there, we don't want to like bring them up because they're, they can be emotional. They could be, I mean, there's all kinds of things attached to them. You know, that there's a lot of hard work in investigating them and trying to make yourself into a different person. So how are we able to point out these flaws and then to encourage these individuals, hey, this is something that we really need to attack and address.

Your flaws are your gifts. Your flaws are your gifts. I always say that, you know, people try to hide the things that actually make them more special and allow them to do special things because society says, don't do that or don't act this way or don't do this. You know, one of my biggest flaws is I learned through staring. Everyone says you have a bad habit of staring. I do have a bad habit of staring, but that's the way I learn. When I'm focused in on something, I watch the patterns of their

movement. I see what's going on. I do all those other things. People say, oh, that's a flaw. Yeah, you know what? But that flaw is what allowed me to excel. So a lot of your flaws that you have, a lot of the things that you try to hide, you should actually figure out how to use those things. Now, you know, if you have that competitive nature like an MJ, you know, his competitiveness could have gone either way. It could have been destructive or it was something that he used to enhance and get what he wants. We all are, we are all irregular in some way. We all have these, we all have these flaws. Recognize them. Don't hide them. Figure out how to use them. Figure out how to make them, make that gift your special thing. Because we're all flawed in some way or another. We really are.

We really are. All right. And people think of those as a bad thing. And I don't ever think of it as a bad thing. I was like, hey, use it, figure out what it is and figure out how you can make it special. We all have skeletons in our closets. They don't need to be in the closets. All right. Because sometimes that skeletons that you to be in the closets all right because sometimes that skeletons that you're putting in the closet is the thing you're going to need to get you to where you want to be now there's some consistent flaws that you see among those high-level individuals because you mentioned mj's competitiveness and i would assume that kobe or tiger woods or a lot of these guys they they're competitive. But what other flaws do you see that like, you're like, oh, they have this too.

That's kind of like a theme in terms of individuals at that level. They all have a IBGAF muscle that's so freaking strong. That muscle is worked on a regular, regular basis. They just don't care. They just don't care. And they don't have any balance. They have no balance in their lives. You know, everybody is so busy trying to create balance. They're trying to create different ways to balance and all the other stuff. They're trying to find balance and they understand you don't find balance. You create it and it's different for each individual out there.

And for people that try to balance all those things, they try to add all this stuff. Everybody's trying to add, add, add. They know that in order to win, one of their biggest flaws, one of their biggest things is they know they have to delete. You know, MJ didn't have a whole lot of know, MJ didn't have a whole lot of friends. Kobe didn't have a whole lot of friends. You look at your most successful business people, you say, they don't have a whole lot of friends. They just don't. They just don't. It's not important to

them. They know that time for everything equals time for nothing. They know what's important to them. They know how to balance it. They know how to create balance that's unique to them. And they don't care what anybody else thinks about it. They just don't. Tim, how are you staying in such good shape? It doesn't look like you're getting any older. I've been following your career for a long time. So how are you staying in shape? How are you staying fit? Man, listen, you know, I don't do what I used to do. I still do this. I go to the gym six days a week. I do cardio three days a week.

I lift when I can. But, you know, I'm in a place where one of the most important things for me is during each workout is to be able to get to the next workout. You know, so I don't lift the same iron that i used to do you know you go into the gym and you know every now and then you're like you think about it and you'd be like nah it's not a good idea it's just not it's just not no it's just consistency you guys know that it's just consistency it's just like making time continuing to do it there's no secrets out there. You know, you got to, you know what, everybody knows what, how, what you're supposed

to eat, what's good for your body, what isn't good for your body. You know, in general, you know, you got to put in, you got to go put in the work. You got to go do your cardio. You got to go do your resistance training. And it's just consistency. Just keep doing it over and over and over again. And it's just like, listen, do I love the work? No, I don't love the work, but I do enjoy the end result. I do enjoy to be able to go in my closet and be able to wear whatever I want, whatever I want. From a diet perspective, was it hard to get some of these athletes on board with making changes to their diet? It's the hardest thing. It's the hardest thing to do because they've all been raised on fast food. It is the most difficult thing to do.

And the sooner we can get the individuals to understand that, the better it is. But it takes years and years of them getting into that, figuring out the nutrition part. That's always been the most difficult. It always will be the most difficult part too. With these guys being so competitive, were performance enhancing drugs, were they ever brought up? Have you ever heard some of the guys suggesting any of that to you, you being a trainer and coach and stuff like that?

Not at all. I'm fortunate and blessed that I've never had, out of the thousands of athletes that I've trained, I've never had one failure drug test because I would educate them in all the different stuff. When I said earlier about paying attention to the details, I need to know everything that's going on on your bodies, everything that you're taking, everything that's going on. If there's something that you're going from the outside, let me know, let me know what it is. But we took very, listen, I'm all about winning, but winning without breaking, without breaking the rules.

Because also, you know, my reputation is on the line too. You know, it takes one moment to turn a, to turn a win into a loss, into a permanent loss. You know, I was curious because you, you because you were mentioning about like working out, right? Like if you're working out right, then you don't necessarily like it, right? Because it's really hard. But I want to know with a lot of these athletes and workouts, right? Workouts are obviously hard, but when I have really good workouts, I like that feeling, even though it really sucks. Even in the moment, how shitty you feel or how tired you feel, you like it in a way.

Like, I like it. Like, I seek that out. I'm assuming a lot of these guys, as hard as you made their workouts, I mean, the good ones, they probably enjoyed it, right? Or am I wrong in that assumption? I don't think so. They enjoyed the actual workout. They enjoyed the results and they enjoyed the competition of the workout. They enjoy the competition. They enjoy the results. So what they know is it's a necessity. It's a necessity. It's just like, it's not an option.

You know, with MJ, we were the first ones that actually had him lift on game days. And everybody was like, you got to be crazy. You got a basketball player lifting on game days? You're going to throw a shot off? You're going to do all these different things? I was like, no, it's actually going to do the complete. Working out and training will make you less athletic. That didn't make any sense to me.

That just didn't make any sense to me. Did they enjoy the workout? I would say no. Did they enjoy it? Like, okay, after a set and they accomplished something and they were like, okay, or what you just said is like, I don't feel like working out today, but those are the individuals you have the best workout. There is a sense of accomplishment, but there's also a sense of accomplishment and a sense of completion because they know they have to complete this in order to continue to win on a regular basis. Got it. So I have a bit of a heavy question, and I've been over here fidgeting and deciding how I want to ask this or if I even want to ask this. But here goes. So with Kobe, you know, we have hours and hours of game footage. There's the Mamba mentality motivational videos. There's interviews. There's tons of things that

we can learn from his life. There's endless things. Is there anything that we can learn in his death? It seems like he was doing everything right. He put his family first, had a financial situation. Everything was all set, yet we still don't have him anymore. Is there anything we can learn in his tragic death? So I'm actually glad you brought up that question. So one of the things I used to always tell Kobe, and there's a lot of people that you talk to and, you know,

people into this space about the mind and all this other stuff. They say, oh, you have time, you have time. I always used to tell Kobe, we don't have a lot of time. We don't have a lot of time. And to this very day, I wish I was wrong. I really wish I was wrong. Listen, the one thing we can learn from his passing is listen, do everything, experience everything, feel everything. Winning is everywhere. It's there every single day. And you got a chance to see it in the short time that he was with us.

So we don't have time. As much as we think to, we don't have time what is it uh done for your your uh yourself and uh like your family with you being around these uh high level people uh for so many for so many years uh does it uh does it sometimes make your experiences with uh uh you know your uncle or so and so who like just doesn't have their their shit together so to to speak. Does it, does it kind of make you scratch your head and like, like why aren't some of these motherfuckers reading my book, you know, type thing.

Well, you guys get this, you'll ask somebody and you'll explain something and they'll keep asking the question. It's just like, I don't, I don't understand. You're like, I don't understand. It's like, you know, you're like, I don't I can't understand that way of thinking. I just you're like so perplexed. It's just like saying they're like, really, really? It's just like I don't I don't understand. And you don't understand. You really don't understand. Well, you know, people like I would say I'm that family member that nobody wants in their family, but everybody needs. Well, so that's where it is.

I like, should we invite him? You know, well, you know what he's going to say, you know what he's going to do, but he's going to. Hey, we do know he's going to bring the best tequila. We know that. So that's always an advantage. You're like, well, we know he's going to talk trash because our cars are dirty and we you know you know he's going to judge the food that we're eating and so on yeah you know but also just be yourself that that's it i i if i'm going to be myself you just be just be yourself i'm not here to i'm not here to judge you we're not put on this planet to judge anyone uh this you were

mentioning something about like winning every day when you were mentioned you're talking about Kobe and it made me curious when we talked about like Michael manufacturing problems to have to overcome. How like how does one find a way to find wins and a lot of the things that they're doing because for example, if you're an athlete your win comes comes from like, whatever, winning a tournament or winning whatever gold medal or whatever that that's where the big win is. Right. But would you suggest that athletes find wins in other ways just to make it even more of a habit? Because I feel like if you're looking at that one thing, right, that's one win that's quite a ways away and it could take a while to get there. Like you said, Michael didn't win his first championship until he was seven years in. Right.

So, um, how does one get into the habit of winning? If the thing that you're really trying to win might be very far away. Well, it's just what you said. It's the habit of winning. Are you doing everything from a habitual standpoint,

from a practical standpoint, that's getting you closer and closer to whatever that win is? During the pandemic, we've forgotten what a win looks like, what it feels like. We've forgotten it. That's one of the reasons I wanted to write this book, is there are wins out there every single day. You just have to recognize them and you have to be able to string those little wins together that get you a little closer to those things. But they have to be real wins. They have to be real wins. You know, that can't be like the, oh, I showed up. You know how they say, oh, showing up is half the battle. No, showing up is none of the battle. It's none of the battle it's none of the battle all right i just because you showed up at the gym that that doesn't mean

you're gonna you're gonna get the that's not a win it's what you do at it's what you do once you get there and then what you do once once you once you leave so can you form those things that get you a little bit when recognize it and recognize it every single day that everything I'm doing is getting me a little bit closer to that. That ultimate that ultimate win just a little bit closer, a little bit closer. to say, hey, this is what I need to do on a regular basis to get me a little bit closer, a little bit closer, and recognize if it's actually working. If it's not, during the pandemic, you had so many people had to get out of their routines, which was the best thing for them because those routines were so comfortable. They weren't getting them any closer wins. They were just surviving surviving some of these different

personalities is it has it been your experience to where each guy uh wants to be the best and or sometimes they want to be the best but also maybe to uh also maybe they're thinking of like who they're going to kick the crap out of you know know, I heard, I heard you make a statement when you were on Andy Frisella's show where you talked about like when you're given a speech and you're talking about like, which sounds uncharacteristic of you, but I understand the mentality. We were talking about like kicking the guy in the stomach or like punching the guy in the face type of thing, but it's, it's a mindset. So I get it and I understand what you're talking about in your experience to most of the

guys. Are they focused in on themselves? Are they worried about punching the other guy in the face? They're focused in on themselves. They're focused in on themselves. All right. And then when they're focused in on themselves, then they, then they, then they know they can punch the guy in the face. I love it. Thank you so much for spending your time with us. You got one more question.

No, no. Yeah. Thank you so much for spending your time with us today. And what's your dog's name that you have in your lap there the whole time. This is, this is, this is Cody.

Cody. What's up, Cody. Okay. Okay. K O D. Yeah. I,

I, he's the mini Megalodon. Adorable. Yeah. Where can people get your book? The book is available anywhere where books are available. Any bookstore, online, Audible, you know, anywhere it is. If you want to, you can even go to our website, timgrover.com,

Instagram at Tim Grover. It's available everywhere. I do. If you can't find a book, you're not looking. We'll put it in the description as well. I have one last question before you go. Yes,

sir. As far as guys like MJ and Kobe and all these other guys, when it comes to like, when it comes to how they went about things mentally, when they were on their own, like, yeah, they trained hard.

They, they were, they were great athletes, but did they, did they have any mental practices that just maybe most people don't do or think about or talk about in terms of like the way they went about thinking about competition, going over things, just the way they thought about things. They had the ability to, like I said earlier, they had the ability to delete the unessentials, the things that didn't matter during that time. So like, you know, when they were able to go from moment to moment to moment, but be able to go back into the moment.

So they could go from being in a real competitive state and then being laughing and then going back into the competitive, going back in the competitive state. So being able to stay in a mind of clarity and not have all the distractions constantly, constantly bogging them all the time. And they didn't have what I always said. You know, everyone talks about the switch. That switch never turned off. It never turned off. They dimmed it. So instead of a switch, they had a dimmer

and they got to control the dimmer of hot, because if you take something and you turn the power off all the way, and then you have to turn the switch back on, it takes too much energy to do those things. So whatever moment they were in, they were in that they were in, they were totally immersed in that moment, whether it was a competitive moment, whether it was a relaxation moment, whether it was a fun moment, but they were able to go from one to the other instantly. That's impressive. That's no small task.

No, it's not. Gentlemen, thank you so much. It was an honor that I got a chance to talk to you guys. Thanks again. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Take care. You as well. Awesome. Yeah. that was some pretty pretty uh outstanding stuff right there man him crow that dimmer thing man i uh i like that that's some shit i like yeah this is a lot of things that had me thinking this whole time yeah podcast and the balance thing i

think that's that's that's something that um this is pretty big deal because everyone we we talk about that a lot but everyone tries to find like a way to balance everything but like depends on what you're doing but a lot of times imbalance is necessary in a weird way it reminds me of when someone tells me that they used to be on like crystal meth. I'm like, whoa, like you were like stuck in that and you couldn't fucking get out of it. I think some of these guys are so tunnel vision that they're addicted to what they're doing and they'll do any and everything they can to, to get more of it,

to do more of it. Yeah. And that's, that's where they're at. You guys good for a couple of seconds. I got to pee really bad. yeah, sorry.

Yeah, man, go ahead. Yeah. Don't, don't pee on our, don't pee your pants. Don't pee on our crank. The whole thing just goes... Yeah, it just starts to melt. Yeah, that was spectacular.

I like how he's developed this mindset over a long period of time and it hasn't wavered. I think he's just added to it. He's added to it. I don't think he's even subtracted from it. I think it's been something that he's been, you know, it's a body of work and working on it for a long time. And him being around all those people, it's not to say that those people have it perfect or those people have it right. But you get the sense that like he knows what he's talking about because he was able to assist and help people that were already at such a high level

um there's got to be something to it right there has to be and and that's that's why like the physicality of it and the way he trained them is cool but the thing that i think i got the most from was just again the way they thought about things and the way they they they went about things in their mind because not that you have to. You don't need to go replicate Jordan's taking everything personally. You don't need to go replicate that. But conceptually you can understand the idea of using those things as just like a small dark fuel. Just to help move you forward just a little bit.

I've had plenty of those moments. I mean I remember one in particular in powerlifting where I just competed little bit. Yeah. I've had plenty of those moments. I mean, I remember one in particular in powerlifting where I just competed against somebody and, um, I was able to beat them at this particular contest. Cause I came down a weight class or something like that. And the next competition I was going to compete at a heavier weight class. And this guy was going to go back up.

Uh, and I kind of knew that anyway, but this guy was really strong. I just, he just happened to like not do well in the contest. Like he did terrible and I did great. I made most of my lifts. He missed most of his, and I was able to beat him. And I remember, you know, when the contest was over, I walked over to him and I said, Hey, you know, great competing with you today. You know, have, have a good, have a great day. And, uh, he was like, I'll see it worlds, you

know, and the way he said it, I was like, and he shook my hand. It was like something out of a movie. And he squeezed it a little extra. And I'm not confrontational, so I don't care. I was just like, whatever. But then as I was walking away, I thought about it more. It takes a while for stuff to sink into this fat head of mine. And I was like, fuck that guy.

I'm like, I'm going to just. So all in training, I kept thinking about him the whole time. I was like, I'm going to kick that guy's's ass and then he just happened to do horrible in the meat again and i was able to beat him but i did get a lot stronger you know i used that fuel i was like i'm not letting him get away with that and it was for me it was good because i did beat him on that particular day but if i was being honest i was like you know what he actually is stronger than me so he can kick my ass. It's just, but I'm going to need to get exponentially that much stronger and be ready for him.

Just like Tim said, you were proving to yourself. You're proving to yourself that you were much stronger than this dude, because that's the thing that he said. I proved myself right, yeah. Exactly. None of these guys were trying to prove people wrong. They were just like, yeah, I actually am this fucking good, and I'm going to show you guys on this good. And it's because I know it, you know? Yeah. And other people usually don't care that much. They don't, they really don't. People aren't, people aren't, and you know, you hear people say these things like nobody thought I'd be good at jujitsu and

it's like, well not, okay, let's back up a second. Not everybody's thinking about your jujitsu classes. You know what I mean? Like maybe there's a couple people that thought that you were shitty when you started. Or maybe there's some people that thought like, look at this bodybuilder guy. Like he's going to be stiff and he's going to suck. Right. And those people, you can kind of say, all right, well, you know, they probably don't think that any longer.

Yeah. It's interesting trying to prove other people wrong they they usually just they don't care they're not sitting there thinking about it yeah but it is funny man how certain statements that certain people say may stick with you um i think it is like i've mentioned this before but like there's this dude that just like said um you know uh as a pro natural bodybuilder or whatever there's really no that just like said, um, you know, uh, as a pro natural bodybuilder or whatever, there's really no way that you'll end up doing well at jujitsu or at getting to the top at jujitsu.

And it's not like, I, I don't, I don't like focus on that all the time, but I remember it. It's not like written on your fridge or anything. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't have like post-it notes on my mirror reminding myself every morning about it. I think it's good. I think it's good fuel though. And I think it's,

um, I think a lot, I think sometimes some of these things are partially in our own mind too. And so when someone says that, you're like, I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I don't think that's true. I think I can prove myself.

Right. I think I can, I think I can go against this. I think, uh, you know, we, we hear people,

um, people blame all kinds of stuff on, on certain things and they don't have anything to do with each other. More recently, I've been hearing a lot of blame on the pandemic. People are like, yeah, well, I gained like 30 pounds. Well, they don't say they gained 30 pounds during the pandemic. They say they gained 30 pounds because of the pandemic. And I'm like, whoa, like, no, not everyone gained 30. If everyone gained 30 pounds and I might say, okay, well, yeah, you're right. This pandemic of fatness came around and we all gained 30 pounds. But and I've heard other people say, oh, you know, my kids, they couldn't get outside. They I'm like, your front door was locked?

Like, I think I live in the same country. We were all still able to get out of our homes, you know, at least here in the United States and here in California. Yes, there was restrictions, and yes, there was particular rules, and yes, things got tightened up for a period of time, but you're as locked up as you want to be. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was super as you want to be yeah you know what i mean it was super like

the same thing you know um it was super apparent when people were just leaning on you know the pandemic um if you try to call like any company but like let's just like your cable company or whatever your cell phone the same recording like across the board in these unprecedented times we are experiencing higher call volume therefore your wait times might be longer it's like no man like they've always been extremely long like it's there's no different but they would lean on that to be like sorry guys this is why this is happening it's not because we suck it's because this unprecedented time you're like i've always gotten fucked over calling at&t yeah it's the worst yeah but that's the thing like it is much

easier to point the finger at something else rather than like just taking accountability and saying oh it was because my decision not to go outside and take some walks or not to go outside and maybe try running a little bit not to do this it's easier to say well the pandemic and it happens a lot of other people so it happened to to me too. So this is normal. Right. Um, but Hey, it's over now. Gyms are open. No more excuses.

Yeah. Get back at it. Yeah. All right. And you want to take us out of here, buddy? Sure thing. Thank you everybody for checking out today's episode.

Um, if you guys liked it, please like it. Um, and definitely follow us, follow us all over the place. Subscribe right here on YouTube. Uh, hit the bell notification. So you guys don't miss anything ever again

please make sure you the following the podcast at mark bells power project on Instagram at MB power project on tik-tok and Twitter my Instagram and Twitter is at I am Andrew Z and Seema where you at and see me in yang on Instagram and YouTube and in Seema yin-yang yang on tiktok and twitter don't forget to go to itunes guys because we rocking over there give us a five-star review and yeah be reviewed mark i'm at mark smelly bell strength is never weak this week this never strength catch you guys later bye