Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 543 - Jon Andersen 700g Of Protein A Day No Carbs #DeepWater

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

Jon Andersen is a former member of the Team USA Strongman Team, an international professional wrestler, as well as an IFBB Pro Bodybuilder. Jon has also traveled the world as a motivational speaker and coach to strength athletes and wrestlers. Grab Jon's Book "Deep Water": https://amzn.to/3h31XKS Subscribe to the NEW Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Eat Rite Foods: http://eatritefoods.com/ Use ode "POWERPROJECT25" for 25% off your first order, then code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off every order after! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

All right. This is a true honor. We got John Anderson in the house today. Yes, we do. He's looking rather small, isn't he, in Seaman? Kind of tiny. Not as big as I expected. The shoulders, I think, are pretty small.

And the traps. The traps are the smallest. Well, here's the thing, fellas. I'm 49 years old. There's a lot of time passes. I was original on this show. So we're starting out with excuses. No.

No. What I'm saying is that at 49 years old, I've noticed it's actually tougher to keep size on. What do you weigh nowadays? We were just talking about it before we started. My weight bounces right now between 85 and 95. But most of the time, Orchard's 85, to be honest. It wasn't but just five years ago where i used to get pretty bent out of shape if i wasn't 300 pounds but as you get older you start to realize it's just a

number and become a little more comfortable in your own skin and realize okay i'm i'm gonna be fine at 285 and for you for you it's really really important that you're fueling yourself all the time right i eat constantly as as i had to turn off my alarms before we started, because you have to eat on a – you're eating on a schedule. A lot of times, not because you're hungry. You're eating because it's time. You're eating because it's what you need. It's like you take your car to the car wash. When it's really, really dirty, it doesn't get clean, right?

You take your car wash every week. You maintain it. That's how you get that car that, that is always top notch. Well, your body, you gotta, you gotta take care of it, but it's all day long. Something we'll, we'll dive into deep in the show, but you talk a lot about like pushing off hunger with meals. And, you know, for us, it's a matter of sometimes, or for a lot of people, it's a matter of convenience. Sometimes people skip meals. Yeah, they get hungry. There's a lot of people utilizing intermittent fasting, which can be a great strategy.

But you can get yourself too hungry. And I think a lot of times it boils down to convenience. And so for us, we're very fortunate to be sponsored by Eat Right Foods. They got some great products. The turkey is probably my favorite. I like the honey steak. one is really good, too. The honey carpet steak is fucking good. And I know for yourself, you're probably carrying around some food with you.

It's important. It's an important factor. Like if we don't have that convenient, high-protein food, even as dedicated as we are, we're going to have cravings and we're going to probably fail. 100%. I mean, my wife will be, you know, she's not a morning person, so she's going to be strolling in here probably in a little while

with a bag of food because wherever we go, we've got to have food handy. I mean, I knew being here, there would be options, but you never count on that. We have a delivery coming of Eat Right Food, so you can try it out today

and let us know what you think. Well, turkey, ground turkey is one of my favorites. He's going to fucking like this one. Wait till you try this one. But here's the question. Does this sponsored company, do they mix peanut butter powder for you in your ground turkey? That's what I want to know. They probably will if we ask them.

So ground turkey, a little peanut butter powder, a little Splenda, some sugar-free maple syrup, and then if you really want to get spicy, you take and you put some almonds over the top for the crunch. I have everything. Now we're talking, baby. Except for the almonds, I have everything right there. I have the peanut butter powder. I like it. I have the stevia.

I have the, what else? You said the peanut butter powder? Peanut butter powder. You put this in turkey? Mix it in the turkey. Oh, yeah. I'm down. I have to try this. That's it. I'm telling you. I that powder. I put this in Turkey. Put, mix it in the Turkey. Oh yeah. I'm down. I have to try this.

That's it. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, see, this is different than watermelon and mustard. I got it there. You know, I came from as a little fat kid,

that little son of a bitch talks to me every day. He calls me, says, listen, you better feed me something sweet or I'm going to tell you to do something you want or don't want to hear me to tell you to do. More chocolate syrup, John. That's it. More chocolate sweet or I'm going to tell you to do something you don't want to hear me tell you to do. More chocolate syrup, John. That's it.

More chocolate syrup. I'm telling you, I still take my shirt off in front of the mirror and sometimes I look and I see the little fat guy. Oh, shit. So I just got to keep him quiet. I keep the fat guy on the other side of the mirror by crazy concoctions like we just talked about. I like it. Well, if you guys want to keep the fat guy on the other side of the mirror, tell them how they can get hooked up to Andrew.

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hard for john to even keep like his elbows on the table because his shoulders are so wide this is like he's like stuck in here like this. Problematic being this big, huh? You know, when you were moving your elbows in, it reminded me of a time where I was working out with a buddy of mine. He was a submission grappler, right? And so I was just doing it for fun, for kind of cross training, you know. And he said, hey, let's put the gloves on.

Let's go in the cage. You know, we'll just kind of spar a little bit, you know, and so I can't close my body all day long. I'm here. And he was just, just boom, right between. He was almost like, he said he was like, my arms just made like this perfect funnel.

He'd throw a punch, he'd just find his way right to my nose. So yeah, so the elbows not coming together has caused me multiple problems in multiple parts of my life. Wow. You did some grappling for a while, didn't you? I did.

So when I retired from Strongman, I went into wrestling. That's when we actually first connected. And it was actually Jesse Burdick came down to my training place, and that's when he mentioned you. We were shopping for the same pair of tights and one thing led to another that's right next thing you know we're having a tug over over the spandex pink tights you know how old are you guys at this point i got i got a i need a timeline this would have been i retired from strawman in oh six or seven so it would have been right in there and um yeah so anyway so that was when that was when I started doing my Japan thing.

Well, they oftentimes will put you in. They'll ask you if you want to go in and do like a real fight. They call it. It's basically what a shoot. But when it comes down to it, you never quite know what you're going to get put up against. And sometimes over there, some of those matches turn. I never even thought about it until just now. But he would make a lot of money doing that, huh?

Huge. Huge. Yeah. Why? Wait, what? It's the Japanese. They're like, they're enthralled by Americans. And they're big muscle Americans.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so basically, I started kind of doing some more like real training on top of my wrestling training because sometimes these even even in a regular, you know, over there in a regular wrestling match predetermined, you know, what's happening. You know, sometimes somebody gets pissed off and it gets sticky in there. So you got to be ready to defend yourself, you know. And so that's kind of that was where my my I guess you'd say it was Brazilian jiu-jitsu, submission grappling, a little bit of striking came in.

I was not terribly good at any of it, largely because flexibility is a huge part of that world. But I wasn't a very good pro wrestler either. I just looked good. They liked the way I looked, and they knew I would put butts in the seats if I flexed my muscles. Some of the people you grappled with, though that were pretty high level, like the gyms you went to, right? Didn't you go to some of those? Yeah.

David Terrell. He was actually, he was back in UFCs when like, like fifties, you know, and you know, here's a dude, I mean, he's a, he was like surprisingly explosive and strong. You look at him and he's a fairly big guy, but you have no idea what you're up against once he grabs a hold of you. And so, yeah, I ended up working with some pretty good guys, largely because they wanted to train with me because I was big. I was different.

It's kind of like when you're a young man, and you go in the bar, and you see some girl that you've never seen something like that before, so so you got to try it you know so i was like that i was like that guy in their gym well they've never seen somebody like me so they got to come give me a ride you know i was the scooter you know i was the scooter you know you know the scooter you know it's the scooter is the chick that you want to ride but you don't want your friends seeing you ride it. Oh! Fuck!

I knew this was going to be fun. Well, let's be honest. Come on now. What the fuck are you doing with that little scooter? Jesus Christ. Come on. I mean, let's, we've all been there, you know? Come on now. You know, whether it was by accident or on purpose, I mean, don't tell me it's not the

same for, that too. Don't tell me it's not the same for females. Right. Guaranteed. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been discarded like a dirty dish towel a few times and realized that I was a scooter. You know, they weren't bringing me home to mom. They just wanted to have a quick ride.

It's okay to admit it. It's okay. That's it. That's how it's us. Yeah. to admit it. It's okay. That's it. That's how it's us. Yeah. You move on. You move on. That's it. You move on.

But reality is reality, you know? I'm getting flashbacks. I'm getting flashbacks. I remember some. When you did mess around with some grappling, were you good enough at it at least to have some transfer of your strength? Because being a strongman competitor and being a high-level strongman, a professional strongman competitor,

were some of the people that would try to put you in different holds and stuff? Were they like, well, that was part of what was exciting to them was there were certain things that wouldn't work. I wasn't flexible enough for them to actually use certain moves because like, you know, my arm only goes so far back, only goes here. So they were always like, they'd hook something in and it just, they couldn't lock it up or whatever they were doing. You know, so it was kind of like, you know, it was like, I guess you would say I had a

very, very small move set, but they're very deep move set. You know, they had tons of moves. A lot of them wouldn't work. And I think that was part of it. They had to learn to modify what they were doing. And in that world, that's what it's your opponent, your problem solving. How do I deal with the problems this person creates for me? And so, you know, they weren't worried about me beating them, of course, but how do they

put on, how do they make these moves that don't seem to want to lock up work? So I'm curious in the fights that if you did win any fights, how's that? No, I never fought. Oh, you never fought. I wrestled. You wrestled. Predetermined. Gotcha.

Meaning, you know, I give you one, you give me one. I'm going to send you the ropes, duck my clothesline, that kind of stuff. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But keep in mind, in those matches in Japan, sometimes people get pissed off, so it would get a little real. So that's why I trained, because you got to kind of be ready to, you know, to deal.

The Japanese wrestlers will actually, like, hit you, like, pretty fucking hard. Oh, yeah. And then you're like, don't know what to do. You're like, do I hit you back? Well, yeah, you're not sure if it was, by accident but then they do it again and you're like i think i don't have any other choice and to just level the fuck out of them yeah and then you do that a couple times and then they're like happy oh yeah no no check this out because for them i mean they they truly are warriors i mean they they their job is to please that crowd and so i had

this this there was a match or here we go, look at some of this, so that right there is actually like a local show that I did in between tours because I needed to get the ring rust off. Yeah. Because you can't show up. I mean, keep in mind, I didn't have very much experience, so I would go to these little shows like this in the States to basically tune up my skills so when i got in the ring of japan i wouldn't fuck anything up was it you versus these two guys yeah but it's just it's keep in

mind it's just a big joke i know it's funny you know but yeah i mean this that this is actually like an indie uh this would be considered an indie match this indie company was pretty good i mean if you've seen you can see indie company got 30 people in a warehouse. Yeah. And that was one of the things about my career in wrestling. I had like five or six gymnasium matches before I got contracted in Japan, which really fucking pissed a lot of people off because, you know, I show up there. I didn't know anything.

I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but I was in there doing this stuff, running around, yelling, flexing my muscles, and that was enough, you know, but so here's a kind of a funny story. So I was actually put into, it was a work shoot, right? So it was actually Antonio Noki. He was the one who started in Japan, but then he left and he started a spinoff company. And so that was the job I had first. It was called IGF. So basically keep in mind, I had first. It was called IGF. So basically, keep in mind, I've been kind of getting myself ready to be over there, not knowing if it's going to turn a little nasty in the ring. Well, one of my third matches, I was in the ring with Josh Barnett.

Okay, I don't give a shit if you've been preparing or not. Josh Barnett will turn you upside down. And we're buddies. So it wasn't like, you know, we have mutual friends. Like one of his really good friends was a strongman that I knew. that will turn you upside down. And we're buddies, so it wasn't like, you know, we had mutual friends. Like one of his really good friends was a strongman that I knew. So we had an instant kinship, cool guy. We're talking about a smart dude, I'm telling you. That's the smartest badass on the planet right there. But anyway, so it was all scripted out, you know,

and he's actually telling me, look, I'm going to do this, be ready, you know. And he put a knee in my gut. Oh, my God. Folded me up like a little bitch. You know, it was all I could do. It was all I could do to get through the rest of the goddamn match. I mean, I was just, you know, I mean, I knew it was coming, but he's just so good at what he does. He put that thing right on my solar plex.

It was like, oh, yeah. And he was like, I didn't even throw it very hard you're like oh it didn't feel that way on my side so anyway but yeah that was a that was a fun time over there it was it was a lot of fun you know walking out um you know in front of a just an enormous amount of people in the tokyo dome was definitely a uh that was pretty amazing and then of course my my name wasman, as you saw in the back of my drawers in that little clip there. So I had to lift Giant Bernard, who's 6'8", 370 pounds, over my head, press him. Shit. Yeah.

In a Tokyo Dome match. I'm thinking to myself, okay, your spot is about 90 seconds, and it's made or break. If you don't lock this guy out, there's no more strongman. I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to get renewed. Some of those moments, it's like that big squat,

that big deadlift, and you don't quite know. You're so prepared, but it's got to go your way. That's where doing some log presses probably came in handy. Yeah. Literally literally that's i mean some of my strong background is what made it possible because it was you know i mean and the best part was you know is it was i was telling what because we're in the back we're talking about it's going to go down i said all right as real as matt bloom sorry matt neck and nuts that's where i'm going he said what do you mean oh shit i said i'm gonna grab your neck and i'm gonna grab your nuts and i got him up there and i got a minute i didn't

have a very good grip on his nuts i had all the something but it was like it was like it was primarily thumb you know and then these hands right here i was digging trying to hold on to something i think i had some scrotum because it was there wasn't much to hold on to something I think I had some scrotum because it was there wasn't much to hold on to and he was squirming around up there like a fish out of the water I must have not felt so good yeah probably oil checked his ass let's uh kind of back things up to uh you as a kid and uh kind of how all this started, how your lifting career even started. Yeah, well, I mean, I was a fat little boy. I wish I had. How fat?

Like fat, fat, or just like chubby? I mean, chubby, but to the point where, I mean, you can't call me obese, you know, but I was fat enough that, you know, my boobs had a nice little fold to them. But, you know, keep in in mind part of anybody who's been overweight understands that it's it's how you look is one thing but the worst part of the process is that you keep inflicting this same behavior pattern on yourself and so really it's it's a self-esteem destroyer because how about how old were you when you maybe recognized like oh man i'm

different than some of the other yeah i mean i was saying in uh so the probably the there was a summer where i injured my ankle and i had to spend most of the summer in a cast and that's when i've not a lot of activity and a lot of food and i showed up to junior high going from going from middle school you know being a little husky and a little overweight, but, you know, it's a little easier at that age because, you know, they're all still kids. Now you get into middle school and everything changes. You know, the social hierarchy is much more intense. You know, just the whole, we all know what it's like to be a kid. And you think it's the worst thing on the planet.

When you get older, you realize every kid goes through it to some extent. But that was when I got, you know, I got heavy. And I just remember showing up to school, not quite realizing that I was going to be perceived differently. You know, all of a sudden, next thing you know, I'm starting to realize, shit, they're talking about me. You know, like, oh no. You know, and of course, the shit they're talking about me you know like oh no you know and of course i was a you know comfort eater so something bothered me i just go eat so it just made it get worse and worse and then i wrestled right so you had it was weight category you know and i was not a terribly good athlete so i'm fat i'm not a good athlete i was just getting rolled up like a little bit so i

just started starving myself i'd like eat one orange for the day, which is terrible. But as a kid, you don't know any better. And then, of course, you'd get skinny fat. You're weak. So you lost some weight. Exactly. But you feel you actually feel better because you've lost some weight, even though you don't look terribly better. feel better because you've lost some weight, even though you don't look terribly better.

Anyway, so that's kind of where the whole thing started was just, you know, just, you know, once you start, once the social pressure start to get to you, that's where it kind of spun for me. And then it went all the way until I was a senior in high school. Senior high school is when, because I was really late bloomer. So, I mean, I'm really late. So, freshman year of high school, So, I mean, I'm really late. So freshman year of high school, you know, you got the freshman team, the JV team and the varsity team all climbing into the shower. And these are the days when the coach says, everybody takes a shower. You got to run tomorrow. And again, you know, in junior high, you know, not everybody had hair in their nuts yet.

So I'm thinking, okay, I'm covered here. Why here why climbing the shower there's 150 some kids in there yeah and i'm the only dude in there with a hair what a single hair in his cock now so you're you're heavy you're way underdeveloped you have no you haven't it was light years away from puberty and so you know this was like i could remember just the burning feeling i mean you're burning it would you i couldn't say you're either burning or freezing but the sensation is so intense and uh you know i mean we're talking about you know know, it was very traumatic. I remember learning to tell that story later in life was very cleansing for me. But ultimately, this was the kind of stuff that I went through as a kid. But I remember even during all of this, earlier on when I was like, when I was, you know,

I remember seeing Arnold Schwarzenegger for the first time. I mean, he's inspired so many people. It's amazing. And I just all of a sudden was like something in my chest changed. I couldn't tell you what it was. I didn't know what was happening, but I was like, I was forever different. It was Conan the Barbarian. And at that point, it was like, you know, I was still looking for the answers in the bottom of the

cookie jar. So don't get me wrong. It didn't change my eating habits, but I knew at that point that that's what I wanted to do. I want to be a big, strong guy. I had no idea what I was going to do when I got there, but the inspiration had been set. The drive was there. And so ultimately that's kind of where the start was. And I started, I would, you know, you, you, you, you get a set of dumbbells and you train a little bit and then you don't. But anyway, that then ultimately I found hard work and everything started to slowly change. What was the first sport that you really got into as far as lifting was concerned? Because I'm imagining that in high school you weren't lifting that much, right?

You know, funny enough, even though I was, you know, an overweight, underdeveloped kid, as you know, I was actually the second person in my junior class. I was still fat to squat 405 in high school, which was pretty fucking good, you know. Yeah, that's really good. And so anyway, that's that kind of then I started to realize, OK, maybe there is something here. You know, maybe this is not just a straight pipe dream, you know? And so that was when that was. So the training really started kicking in there. And then right about the end of my junior year, I really started to actually hit puberty to the point where I started to, you know, I grew, you know, I can't say that I got thin, but everything stretched out.

Yeah. You know, and that's kind of where the whole thing started. So then I just became, I realized very quickly, I was far better at lifting weights than the sports I was playing. And so that's where the love for lifting weights really just took off. Yeah. Yeah. What do you, what was the switch with, uh, the nutrition and how did that happen? That's an interesting tale there. So, cause you were doing Strongman, I remember you were eating very unconventionally. And you looked unconventional. All the other Strongmen were 6'5", 6'6", and just looked a lot different than you.

I mean, you were jacked and lean. And it was pretty rare at the time to see that. Yeah. Well, I mean, the one thing that I can say for myself, even as a young, young guy with no self-esteem is I was always pretty happy to kind of find my own way. Probably because I didn't really feel comfortable in line, so to speak. I wasn't feel like I was very accepted. So I was happier to find my own way rather than to get in line with the with people that were kind of following the status quo. with people that were kind of following the status quo. So I remember, you know, I'm just trying to figure out how do I build muscle. And I'm doing every – you know, back in those days, there was no internet. There was no way to find information.

And so you'd see the commercials, you know, see bread, eat bread. You know, and so I'm thinking to myself, shit, I'm going to eat bread. So I'm eating loaves of wheat bread, like loaves. I'm showing up my senior year of high school. I finally started getting a little bit of, I'm a little bit more socially accepted. Sorry, look at the screen. That's some of the stuff actually when I was wrestling in Mexico.

But anyway, so long and short, I'm just pumping down wheat bread thinking that's the key was now we know that was probably just making me fatter. But one day my mom runs out of bread. She's buying loaves of, well, there's not, they were out at the store. I'm like, well, son of a bitch, what am I to eat? So they had all these cans of tuna. So I started eating tuna because I was just, I was in this mode while I was eating bread. Well, what am I getting? Okay, well, there's tuna. So I started eating tuna. In about three days, I was like, something is different. I mean, I noticed in the gym, I was like, that was a lot of, and this is the day where I'm training chest every other day. And so I was like, it's Wednesday. And this was much easier Wednesday.

That was Monday. And I started eating tuna on Tuesday. And I was like, okay. So I just kept eating tuna. And then I started to realize, okay, tuna really represented protein. At that point, I couldn't have told you. I thought that wheat bread was protein. So I stumbled across protein.

That was next thing you know, I've been eating since then. So I stumbled across protein. That was the next thing you know. I've been eating since then. I've been eating four. When I say four, that was back in the day. Now it's more like six or seven pounds of flesh a day. You know? Yeah, let's phrase it that way. Well, flesh kind of counts.

We're not talking about bar stories here anymore, brother. We're talking about diet. But ultimately, it was kind of like you know the because when i say flesh it really encapsulates you know an animal flesh an animal product if you will like even eggs fit in that which is not really flesh but that's when i started to realize holy shit and so i started just really put everything i've done even from from the time I was a little insecure, fat boy was extreme. That was something I had in me from the beginning. And so I just, I mean, I would. And then also I realized as well as that I could also eat. I could overeat, which was a huge part of my youth.

I wasn't getting fatter. Let's explain that a little bit. You can overeat protein. Well, you're talking about a guy who would, you know, have a problem at school and would eat until I couldn't breathe. It was like a comfort thing. And so when I started to lift weights and I started to realize that the protein was helping, I would just overeat protein, right? So I was overeating no matter what. But when I was overeating protein, I was actually getting benefits. Now, granted, if I wasn't overeating, I was just eating lots of protein, the benefits would have been greater.

So I'm not suggesting that overeating protein is the thing to do. But overeating protein versus overeating wheat bread, there was a substantial step forward. One thing to overeat on it would be protein. Yeah, 100%. And so that's where, I mean, that was kind of the birth of my deep water philosophy in terms of how I eat. I mean, deep water is really a philosophy of the mind. But the eating practices are high protein, you know. Deep water.

Okay. Good segue to deep water. We've got to explain how this deep water term came to be for you. Well, so as we kind of, if of kind of parlay what we're doing everything's been extreme you know and i'm doing a lot of stuff because you know it's it's like it's making me feel better about myself and this is the first time in my life that i've ever had anything like this i've never ever felt like i'm you know what i'm doing is actually building my self-esteem you know and it was it was quite addicting, too. I mean, I was really, really all over it.

So this is where I just realized that, OK, I'm going to just be extreme with my eating protein. I'll be extreme with my training. And so, you know, this is where some of the crazy things that I've done with training were born, largely because I wasn't following the status quo. I wasn't doing five sets of five. largely because I wasn't following the status quo. I wasn't doing five sets of five. And so I would do things like, you know, put 405 on a squat bar and how many times can you squat it? We're talking like 1992.

Nobody's ever heard of that shit. So I'm going into a gym. I just show up to a goals gym. Nobody would know me. Load up 405 and just nap. You know, in those days, hitting that thing for 15, 16 times was a lot. You know, down the road, I ended up doing it for the mid-40s. You know, but at that point, I'm a pro strongman, and, you know, a lot had changed.

But that was kind of where the birth of Deepwater came. Now, the name is kind of we've got to go forward about 10 years. came now that the name is is is kind of we got to go forward about 10 years so in my in my strongman career um you had to be good at a lot you had to be a good deadlift you had to be a good squatter you had to be able to good lifting stones and you also had to have an olympic strategy too you couldn't just go in there and not have any olympic experience and do well in some of his events. So one of my buddies, his name's Joshua Fay, a steer, one of my dearest friends, he was actually a really accomplished Olympic lifter. And so I said, Hey, Josh, I need you to train me in this stuff. So every Thursday I would get together with him and we would train Olympic stuff. And, you know,

he was always used to doing triples and singles. That's just the Olympic way. And I'm like, no, I'm going to put three plates on and I'm just going to go until I can't go anymore. He's like, what? So, yeah, this is the way we do it. Who the fuck wants to do that? And so as he would basically coach me as my former breakdown, he would be coaching me. And so what we realized is I would get to a certain point where I'm fatigued. That's where the coaching really came in.

And so he would basically, his cue to me, okay, we're in deep water. Now start listening. You know, meaning, okay, you're eating shit, form's breaking down, open your ears. And that's where deep water came from. So it was basically what people would come and, you know, like, you know, at that. But by that time, my training had been so aggressive. People were kind of coming to check it out, you know, like Jesse Burdick had come down. And and so, again, you know, people are just like, what is this guy doing?

People were coming from all over, like different areas of California and probably even further. But I heard a lot of stories. That's how I learned about you. I heard rumors and shit of people saying like- It was like a myth? Yeah. Well, there's the Lake Oshum stairs, right? Yep. There's these famous stairs and people are like, there's a strongman dude that runs past

all these fit females and all these CrossFit guys that are running up and down these stairs and he runs past them and he's like, he can barely, you know, barely run, but he's fucking cruising on past him. And he's like wearing a weighted vest or whatever. It was like,

I got to meet this. Who is this fucking guy? No. Whoa. I remember hearing another story about how I, and who knows the fuck's true or whatever, but like, uh,

I guess you were waiting on some other guys to show up and you just started doing um like rear delts like on a on like a peck deck and you just you know they were saying that you were you did the whole stack and you must have did like a hundred sets or something waiting for somebody and as they showed up you were like hey you guys got to do that before we uh yeah you know before i mean because i mean when you show up to train you know it's like okay we're here to get better you know you get better in so many ways and so for whatever reason i i picked that for the day and so but so that you know ultimately but that was kind of the whole thing when it was like we didn't know what's happening he just kept going he did like a hundred sets of beer belts never seen anything like it before jesus christ yeah and so that's kind of where deep water came from was just like

my crazy mentality with training and but yasha was really the one who gave it the name and then it just kind of took a life of its own you know because he would when he was there coaching me he'd say okay you're in deep water and i knew to listen and then it just kind of took on the phrase of hey are we doing deep water day? Well, every day is deep water. I know like Muhammad Ali used to say, they would say, how many reps of sit-ups do you do? Yeah. And he said, I don't count until it hurts. Yeah.

Because that's when it matters most. Exactly. No pain, no gain. I mean, because when it comes down to it, I mean, when you think about doing any sort of a heavy lift, it's not the ones where the form is good that you got to work on. It's where the form breaks down. That's where the money is. Yeah. And so, you know, when you think, okay, this is getting sticky, I'm going to quit.

That's where life's beginning right there. You know, I mean, if that rep that you got to struggle through is slightly out of position to just hold that position enough to finish, that's worth more than the first five put together that are perfect. I mean, I'm not in terms of, you know, working on technique. We're not speaking of that. We're talking about, you know, kicking ass and finding, if you think about it, pain is this thing.

And I remember the first time I experienced in my book, I talked about portals. It's like you get to these certain points and all of a sudden it's like it starts getting quiet right and you start to realize that you're getting comfortable and that's where i that's that's where i referenced the portal and then you just dive in that son of a bitch and next thing you know there's a couple of times i shit you not the first time i experienced this actually was in high school. A football coach pushed me really hard in a set of leg extensions of all things. Oh, I see. Yeah. But I just got cold and pain went away.

It was like, what is that? I want some more. Yeah. But the problem is it's hard to get there. So when you get that opportunity, oh, the portal's open. I'll come back tomorrow. Hell no. You're in that son of a bitch.

And then you go as far as you can. And then, see, here's where the sticky part of it is once you get there, you almost have to have somebody there to make sure you don't harm yourself. No, I swear to God. Like with Yasha, I'd tell him, I'm in. You got to stop me, you know, because I would just go. You know, it was like, okay, it just looks like I would just go, you know, it was like, okay, it just looks like it was a repeat, you know, it just, it's, it's amazing.

And it's the most wonderful thing. And the way that you feel when you're done, I mean, there's, there's nothing like it. You can't buy that. You know, you know, we had a conversation yesterday and I feel like right now, when you, when you look at all these different apps you hear like young young guys talking about training everybody talks about oh the reason they're like this is genetics they're like this because genetics and i love hearing guys like you you and stan efferding because you talk about like you you hit he relates he was the skinny kid i was the fat kid exactly right no one would

think that you guys and people are gonna look at what you guys do this is it's just steroids or whatever but no even people that take shit do not look like this right when you talk about your training philosophy that shit's not easy and most people do not push themselves anywhere fucking close to that 100 you know and when it comes down to it it's it's obviously what you're speaking of is so correct but like then there's the other side of that equation can you do it for three decades you know i mean that's i mean people say to me you know i want to get big i want to do this and i say look if you can but can you do this for the length of time that's necessary but i know you can do it today but in in 3000 days from now, are you still doing it?

You know, and it's a different way to put it, but you know, Stan 100%, I mean, he was the skinny kid, you know, and he's been doing a long time too. It's crazy. I was the fat kid. He was a skinny kid. He's like the guy that understands the science and breaks things down. I'm the guy that just looks to smash my head against the wall until it opens. So it's a great, it's a great contrast, you know. When it comes to the form and technique, you're kind of referring to, you know, like when you're doing your sets and your reps, you're still trying, you know, to have the best form and technique, but you're just going so far that your body starts to break down.

And then you did have somebody there to check you and say, hey, look, this is just getting to be like way too ugly. You need to rack the fucking way or you're going to get hurt. Yeah, and because really when it comes down to it is at that point, you know, the state that you're in, you're in that kind of that trance, if you will. It sounds kind of crazy. I'm not trying to get religious, but it's very spiritual.

It's like you're almost not you want to stay there you don't want it to stop you know so but at the same time you don't want to hurt yourself to have it stop because you want to find it and you're not getting in there you're if you can get in there twice a month you're doing pretty damn good because you you get in there and you like a set of squats. That's where I found the first time, you know. I've learned more about myself in a squat rack than any other place on the planet, hands down, you know. I mean, that squat rack could be on the moon. I would still be able to learn a lot about myself. So that squat rack. Anyway, but when you get in there and you push yourself so far, it's physical, it's mental, you're done, you know.

And it feels good to be done, but you're not bringing's mental, you're done, you know, and it feels good to be done, but you're not bringing that type of ever back tomorrow, you know? So, you know, it's like, it's very correct, Mark. You got to have somebody kind of saying, hey, we want to live to do this again. Have you gone too far before where you were like, oh, that's a mistake and had to go to like the hospital or anything like that? You know, I can't say that i've done that but i i mean i've definitely banged myself up you know for sure you know and a lot of times you don't know it at the time you finish like i've i've done some i'm sure i've done some damage to myself in and not quite known it but you know at the same time you know i've been training so long you know my form you know you it becomes

kind of second nature you know it's like you get in that groove and it's almost like you're able to keep it the form might come out a little bit but it's not just falling apart you know it's cute to be totally honest as we all know if your form falls apart you're not moving the weight the weight won't move so you got to be in that range to move the weight or it's not happening for somebody that that like, let's say that they're fairly new to this whole thing in terms of lifting. Obviously, you just mentioned you've been doing this for over three decades. And if you want to get big, you've got to be doing it for a long time. What are the primary things that you think they should keep in mind as far as the way they train?

Like you got to train hard. You have to have intensity. You just got to be smart enough so you don't fuck yourself up. And then you end up, you know, not being able to get at it efficiently into the future. So what would, what would your advice to those people be? So, and I get asked questions about a lot of different things and I'm going to use the response that I use for this as well, because it's not usually what people want to hear, but you have to realize that all of what you do physically in training is directly related to your diet.

So, you know, before we talk about training, what's a diet look like? Because there's no way if you want to have some sort of a journey outside of today, then you better have a diet that can help you recover. And so really when it comes down, and i know that people hate that i'm in a hot all the time but even i'm walking down the street in the store hey blah blah ask me a question and i talk about diet and they're like damn it i wanted to hear something else but i'm i'm being honest you know i mean i could tell somebody what they want to hear but there's not enough real information being passed around out there, you know?

And, you know, it's just the way it is. Everybody puts, I explain to people, check it out. You got two jobs. You got a job, nutrition. You make 750 bucks an hour. Then you got a job where here's training. You make 250 bucks an hour. hour. Then you got a job where here's training. You make 250 bucks an hour. Well, are you going to leave your job making 750 an hour to go work for 250? If you are, you need to rethink your

choices because you can be leaning in good shape without even training at all. Yes. And then if you work your 750 for the maximum amount of hours, even if you only get to go work half of your two 50, you're still ahead. That's true. And so people just don't recognize where their investments needs to be. Their investment of time. You mean just like anything you, if you want to be successful, you got to put your time where you get the biggest return.

And people think that training is that piece of the equation. Train is the fun part, you know? It makes sense. We have a lot more time to think about our food, too. You know, you're in the gym maybe for an hour, maybe an hour and a half, and there's some research and information that says, you know, even when you're training pretty hard, you're only burning like 5% to 10% of your overall calories for the day

from lifting or from whatever form of exercise you choose. So you can't really make up for it with just training. But training over time and building that muscle is also a great investment because the muscle will help burn calories as you go down the road. But it takes a long time to build muscle. 100%. And just like building a house, building muscle is like building a house. If you don't have all the lumber, you don't have all the plumbing, you're not building that house.

Well, if your diet's poor and you go to the gym, it's like trying to build a house with a big pile of sand. It ain't going to happen. You know, so that's really what you, when it comes down to it, you got to put, you can't put the cart in front of the horse. And most people, they think, well, I can buy gym membership and I can go into GNC and I can buy what the salesman tells me to buy. I'm going to get in shape. Yeah. That's very misleading.

So some of your diet and some of what you've been doing more recently, you talk about no hunger and no cardio and still being able to get like and lean and get in good shape, right? Totally, yes. So the no cardio thing is actually kind of a misinterpreted concept. So when I say no cardio, that's what I'm really saying is this, and I should have probably been more in the beginning when I was preaching that. I should have probably explained it more because cardio, and I use that as a term as an activity that people really don't want to do so a lot of times like when I'm coaching people to say well you know is it okay if I do cardio

because I know that you say no cardio and I say look if the activity you're doing you enjoy do it because again going back to the long term, if you don't like doing the stationary bike for 60 minutes a day, it's going to be really hard to do that for 30 years. So, again, it goes back to no cardio is really, I should have probably said cardio is an option. Oh, well, I love cardio. Well, if you love cardio, do you take breaks from it?

Well, I take a break around Christmas. Well, usually when you love something, you don't take a break. So that's where it comes down to is no, because cardio won't, will not, it won't hurt the process by all means. What hurts the process is forcing yourself to do something everybody don't want to do such as in the diet. You can't force yourself to eat stuff you don't want every day for 30 years. Any creature will finally say, you know what? I don't give a shit what kind of progress I'm making.

I'm not eating that again tomorrow. Yeah. You know? So if you like your diet, you like your activity, 30 years is much more obtainable. When you were doing Strongman competitively, how were you feeling yourself different than you are now? Because obviously you eat a lot of protein. That's been a constant thing. You never back off of protein.

But were you eating a lot of carbohydrates? Were you more fat-dominant, carbohydrate-dominant? How did that work for you? Well, that's a great question because diet has really helped me navigate all of what I've done. Now as a pro bodybuilder, the joke is I'm all show, no go. Because nobody gives a shit how much you lift when you're up there. But straw man was all go. I mean, granted, the fact that I look good was kind of a benefit,

but it wasn't a requirement by any means. And so I was eating a lot. And, you know, ultimately when it came down to it, I, you know know carbohydrate was something that i did have in in my diet it wasn't something that i use on a regular basis but uh perfect example is my lovely wife terry just walked in she can remember this while i was going through a acl reconstruction it was a nasty me and yeah did acl it's a terrible try at acl mcl and clipped off part of my meniscus.

At this point, I was heavy. I'm like 325. Being inactive, having to be laid up for a little while, it really was important to me to keep weight on. There was a period during my recovery, every night before I went to bed,

I knew when it was time to go to bed because I could smell the bacon. She would cook me a pound of bacon, and I would eat like a quart of Haagen-Dazs ice cream. But it was really what it was. It was just a really small, you know, in your stomach it's about like this. But it's extremely dense, and that's really what I was after. I remember hearing about this. I was like, because I remember asking Jesse Burdick,

I'm like, what's this guy's diet like? He looks crazy. He's like, don't even fucking bother asking him. He like eats a pound of bacon and ice cream every night. I was like, really? Well, yeah, that was obviously during like a phase where I was just trying to keep weight. At that time, you're not really worried about being a little extra fat.

As long as I, it's like my wife would say, I can still see your abs, honey, you're not really worried about being a little extra fat. As long as, like my wife would say, I can still see your abs, honey. You're okay. She's trying to get the lighting just perfect. That's right. Just back up a little bit. Then flex. Okay, we're good. Anyway, but yeah, so ultimately the diet.

In those days, high protein has been a staple. Ever since I discovered tuna fish when I was young. But then from there, you know, like in my strength career, it had a lot to do with how what our body weight needed to be. So I would use the carbohydrate, always high fats too, but I would use the carbohydrate usually mixed with some sort of high fat. You know, I never just ate the carbohydrate by itself, but I was trying to, you know, gain weight. Like there was a period where, so in Strongman,

there was a period where IFSA was the governing body. They got bought and they had all these grand plans and it really fucked everything up. But that's besides another story. They increased the weights substantially. Like we were used to doing a 800 pound yoke. In those days, that was fucking bone crushing, you know. And then they moved, okay, guess what, guys?

We're going to go to 900. We're like, oh, my God. I mean, there are guys taking this thing 15 feet, you know. So we all just started eating, man. I mean, in those days, you know, there is some merit to weight moves weight, you know. you know there's there is some merit to weight moves weight you know i mean granted if you're a lard ass and you got very little muscle that kind of that doesn't work on that side of the spectrum but if you're gaining weight and you're gaining muscle your trunk's getting a little thicker there's more stability i mean guys were putting two belts on because there was just so

much you know it was just so difficult the the pressure coming down. So anyway, I would use the carbohydrate and high fats to gain lots of weight, right? But then, you know, to keep myself strong was always the protein. I never, ever looked at the carbohydrate as a part of the equation to get stronger. The protein is the building block there, you know. It's the protein, it's the rest, and the stimulation is the training. And the balance is really the key. And then why the shift away from carbohydrates completely? Because I don't think you really eat them hardly at all.

Maybe you have a cheat or something here or there. Because I am a full-blown sugar addict. Hands down, cannot look at it any other way. One of you guys asked me to have a bite of a cookie. Well, if I took the bite, I would eat your cookie. I'd eat your cookie. Everybody else's in the room is a cookie. I'd eat the box.

And then I'd take somebody's car keys, and I'd be headed to 7-Eleven to get all their cookies. Don't eat your fucking cookie. It's mine. Because it's like, you know, I mean, being a sugar addict is a difficult thing. It's like an alcoholic. You can say, okay, don't drink. You can't tell an alcoholic, you need to go into the bar, have one drink a day. He'd have that drink and he'd be shithouse drunk every day.

Well, a sugar addict, you have to avoid sugar. If you have a little bit of sugar, and then what happens is really, as we all know, and especially what we know about nutrition now, everything we eat breaks down into sugar. And then what happens is really, as we all know, and especially know we now about nutrition now, everything we eat breaks down into sugar. So if you basically eat, you know, even if you're not eating a straight sugar, I could even eat, you know, plain rice and it would set me off, you know? So to a certain extent, going back to the fat, the fat guy on the other side of the mirror, keeping the carbohydrate away keeps him on that side. So the carbohydrate is something that I, it's a tool.

It's a very, very powerful tool, but it can also be a very, very harmful tool. You got to know how to use it. I think you mentioned putting chocolate syrup on here. Sugar-free. Oh, sugar-free. Oh, no. If I was eating cookie, it was not sugar-free. Yeah.

I love that. Like, most people have, like, a phase of, like, oh, I listen to this type of music during this phase. And his phase was eating a pound of bacon every night. That's insane. With ice cream. With ice cream, yeah. But the question I had is, like, I mean, obviously, it's very successful on your physique. But the old mindset of, like, no, if I want to build muscle, I need to

have the carbs for my workout. So let's break down the macronutrients, right? So we got fat, carbohydrate, and we got protein. Well, and as we learn more about all of this, we realize that now it's been proven, it was a question mark before, that excess protein can be broken down into a blood sugar. It's not an easy process for a lot of people, but it can be done. So we know clearly that that's part of the equation. So it's a building block, and it can be an energy source. Not a very efficient one, but it's still an energy source. There's two dimensions.

Fat. When we say fat, we're talking essential fat. Let's not talk about margarine and know, man-made fat. So let's keep that out of the conversation. An essential fat is a very stable energy source, but also has a lot of healing qualities depending on what fat you're using. And so again, two dimensions. Now we go to the good old carbohydrate. Okay. It is an energy source, Very fast. It can be like a really fast release energy source. And it's very powerful, but it only represents energy. There's no healing.

There's no building with a carbohydrate. Now, will it fill the muscle out? Yes. Will the muscle have more energy because you chalked it full? Yes. But it doesn't help with the rebuilding process. So I don't really give a shit if my muscles are not, like right now, as funny as it sounds,

I would be considered depleted. But I live my life depleted. You know, if I went and ate, you know, say I ate a cup of rice with five or six meals, I would fill out. I should probably take more than that. But the bottom line is I could use a carbohydrate to fill my muscle, right? And that's something that the carbohydrate can be used for.

It's a great energy source, quick release energy source, but there's no building. So that being said, to answer the question is, you know, when it comes down to getting strong, it's really nuts. You could be tired, but you're not really going to be stronger from the carbohydrate. That make sense? Mm-hmm. You know, so it's a very misunderstood, you know,

it's a very misunderstood concept in terms of, I deal with people, I'm not strong without the carbohydrate. Well, if your diet is done properly, you'll actually have great energy without the carbohydrate. And then you put the carbohydrate in, and it's like a turbocharger, you know? What about the pump?

You know, some people are like, I can't get a pump without the carbs. Well, so people hire me to coach them. They say, okay, I want to gain 20 pounds of muscle. I want to lose 15 pounds of fat. Okay, that's the goal. So I create a program for them. And usually what I do with people is I'll run it like a split test with carbohydrate. And what I'll do is I'll pull it out slowly. And if they start to respond positively, we'll keep it out. We'll bring

it back in periodically, but usually energy would stable. They'll feel great. They'll be more clear, but they're not getting a pump in the gym. So I'm not getting a pump in the gym. Let's review why you hired me. Did you hire me to get a pump in the gym, or did you hire me to build that muscle and tear off the body fat? Well, not having a pump in the gym is, you could call it, a negative side effect of this process. But, okay, in a month, look at the progress we've made.

So, you know, if you just hire me to give you a pump at the gym it's a real easy job you know you didn't need to hire me to do that and then they start to realize okay this is kind of part of the you know you you want to make a goddamn omelet you're gonna have to break some eggs let's be honest here you know man first off i fucking love what you're saying because okay so i found that um we've kind of landed on that same thing like back in the day years ago um i would give myself the excuse that if i want to be able to perform i need to have all my carbohydrates so i'd be eating 300 400 sometimes 450 to 500 grams of carbs oh shit um yeah yeah yeah uh to fuel myself for those workouts

right yeah um but when i took when i like started going low carb and then some days no carb i found that i was actually having still really good workouts and the one thing that actually made a big shift for me was just adding electrolytes in you know what i mean um and like sodium potassium magnesium so i don't cramp up and i still feel good now there are days where i don't have any carbs but the days where i feel a little bit lethargic i can get away with just maybe having 50 grams of carbs and I feel great. I think people think that they need so they, they eat too many carbs to fuel, even though they don't need that much. And here's the thing is what, what, you know, you hear, you know, people that are really into nutrition talk more like you hear Stan talk about all the time.

Micronutrient values is like another layer of food that people just don't get. And so here's the deal. Put it plain. If your diet is micronutrient, you're not deficient. If you have what your body needs, the odds are you're going to feel fucking great without the carbohydrate. Then you can bring the carbohydrate in. It's like a fucking.

Yep. You know, it can bring the carbohydrate in. It's like a fucking, yep. You know, it's like, you got this. It's like, okay, you, you want to kick ass for the day.

You take that 50 grams. Look out. The carbohydrate is like a crutch to most people. Here's a, an example. I help people understand. So you got two twin brothers, Mark and myself.

Handsome twins. That's it. it so we basically we were both fat boys you know shit so so we're playing basketball right we're twins identical twins we both go up for the same ball we come down we both twist our right ankle somehow identically we go to the hospital doc says hey you're not broken but you're not broken, but you got a bad sprain. You got a bottle of pills for you, a bottle of pills for the painkillers. So the smart one, we'll call that Mark, takes the pills as prescribed. The doctor says, hey, you're going to take these until the pain goes away. You know, when you wake up, if it doesn't hurt, don't take the pill. So he listens. He takes about five or six of the 60 that the doctor gives us.

Well, the other side of the fence, myself, the dumb one, I keep taking that goddamn pill. Well, all of a sudden, there's no more pills. Well, the doctor says, you're healed. You don't need more pills. Well, I don't feel normal with the pill. The pill has become a crutch. I need the crutch to feel normal. So a person that can't function without the carbohydrate in most cases is,

she's become dependent. And if the diet is done properly with the micros, you don't have a dependency. And then at that point when you bring it back in, it's like a goddamn jackhammer, you know, it's like it's a whole different it just presents a whole different possibility yeah you know it's kind of funny i look at carbs like a supplement right yeah that's the way it should be you know the difference is you're not paying 10 times what they're worth and they're not ground up and colored and flavored.

So, yeah, so I totally, you know, with your diets on point, the carbohydrates should be a very powerful tool. I know, you know, some people are listening right now and they're like, this isn't Dr. Landon Norton talking or their favorite nutrition person that they listen to. But I just want to make it clear that there's a lot of truth to what you're saying. I know that you're also just sharing your own experience and experiences that you've helped other people with, but there's a lot of evidence, a lot of proof, a lot of research, however you want to say it, that the human body does not necessarily, quote unquote, need dietary carbohydrates because we can make them out of protein if necessary. We do need it for something.

And fat is a great energy source as well. And to what you're saying, 100 percent. I mean, keep in mind, all of what I've kind of discussed here is 100 percent. This is an organic methodology that I've built myself. Now, I didn't care what research said. I didn't care what was proven. I didn't care what was not proven. I just knew it worked for me.

And as I continued down my path, the research started to support what I've been doing. So again, it's one of those things. I mean, and I kind of live my life this way, you know. If you want to get somewhere, if you're following somebody, you're only going to get as far as he's going. So you got to get out to the left, get out to the right, get in your own space. And then what's in front of you is truly up to you. You're not running into somebody that you could be passing up. And you're not being influenced by what he's doing.

You're being influenced on what you see and you feel works for you. And that right there, that is deep water. That is me. That is how I coach. That's how I live my life. Sometimes, you know, I'm going to be wrong. I mean, it gets me into a bind sometimes because I love to try shit. I mean, if I walk into a situation and I see a really nice-looking pool of water,

you know, sometimes I won't actually verify that it's water before I run head steam and dive in that sub bed. And I'll hit the bottom. There's not a drop of water. I'll knock my teeth out. Like, son of a bitch, that didn't work. But, you know, I'll stand up. I'll put my teeth in my pocket.

I'll climb out of the goddamn pool and I'll look for another one, hoping there's water the next time. And really what it comes down to it, that kind of that fearless trial and error is what has allowed me to do what I do. One gram of protein per pound of body weight. You know, I honestly, when it comes down to there was when I was younger, I really subscribed to some of this stuff. And I realized, okay, I'm, I'm doing what is what the common, you know, what the status quo is and I'm still hungry. Well, maybe I wasn't hungry, but I wanted to eat. So that's why I just kept eating.

I was overeating protein. Well, you know, I do sometimes, but if you do the calculations, I'm way over two, right? Well, again, going back to the beginning, it kept me from being fat and i was getting very strong in the process so it's so you're near 600 grams of protein a day no more than that you know i mean i'm doing you think like this it's is when i say when i talk about what i'm eating this is cooked so we're talking six seven pounds of flesh a day. Now convert that into uncooked.

That's, I mean, you lose about 30, 30% when you cook something. Yeah. So you do the math on that. That's a shitload of flesh. You know, how do you eat that much? Like, like, no. Yeah. Like, yeah.

Especially if it's a lean source. Yeah. And do you, do you, you, did you have meals right here? Like ready or something? Yeah. Well, see, here's the thing. Yeah, and do you have meals ready or something? Yeah. Nice. Well, see, here's the thing. When she cooks, it's like she's cooking like whatever.

20 pounds of whatever we're cooking is being cooked. You don't pull out. First off, you don't buy a container of flesh if it's a couple of pounds. It's got to be a minimum of a 10-pound bag or there's no reason to buy it. I love it. reason to buy it. I love it. I fucking love it. It's great. It's like the Flintstones. Call it a spade a spade here. Spare a riddle. But again,

the whole thing about it is when you start to recognize it's really what you think about it. It's like a conversation. I say something. Based on what I say, there's a response. Based on the response, I say something again. Now, picture that person or that thing that I'm talking to is the body.

So if I'm eating all this protein and I'm recognizing there's a benefit, then I'm getting the response I'm looking for. So, of course, when it comes down to down to as I get older, we were talking earlier about how it's harder for me to keep weight on. I've actually started to do a lot more egg whites because it's very easy to eat and digest. Cooked egg whites probably, right? Or not. Just not a lot. I mean, I cook them.

I drink them. Okay. I take a bath in them. Use this lotion. I like that. I do. I put an IV with them. Does this amount of protein bother your stomach?

Well, I'm going to let my wife kind of answer that question. If I drink, so what I'd like to do is I like to, so I got these three-cup shakers, the big boys. And I like to fill one of those up. I mean, God knows if you want to hear the recipe. So we're talking the egg whites. We got probably 10 Splendas. We got some peanut butter powder. My favorite is crushed flax seeds,

and anything that I can do, I mean, I like, you know, that's the fat kid talking. That's like what I drink before bed. The problem is, I'm going to say probably about four or five hours after I drink that. So probably about halfway to the night I started, she calls it machine guns. I'm just blowing. And it's like, it's funny because it's really weird. I, I, if it's really bad, I can feel myself getting tense. Right. And so I'll kind of wake up and I'll start to push. And I'm like, it won't come.

I'm like, it's kind of those ones where you're afraid to push all the way. Yeah. Because you're thinking, God, I'm in bed right now. If this goes wrong, I need to be sitting on the toilet, you know? So I'll tense it. I'll give it a push. But, you know, give it a push and you let off. It goes back.

You don't really know what the next little bit's going to feel like. Because you got to keep. So you let off, it goes back. You don't really know what the next little bit's going to feel like. Because you've got to keep, so you push, you tense the abs, you feel, giving that a little push. And you kind of wait, okay, you've got to go one more time. So you keep the tense, you've got to keep your stomach tense. It's like in a chamber. Yes. But then sometimes it disappears somehow. And then once it starts to go, because these are the ones that are kind of high-pitched and loud.

So you don't know if they're going to be just air only. Yeah. And so you got to be right. You got it. You're tensed up so you can get ready to back out real quick if you need to. And so, but a lot of what happens. A lot of experience. Oh, yeah.

So what happens is, and then it just turns into this, what she calls a machine gun as just this really fucking, i shouldn't say high pitch but you know not like a scent light not like an elephant fart not the low not the bass drum you know and so the problem is it just and i sleep with a fan oh god and i sleep naked usually with just a belt blowing right towards her you know i have a blanket but it's not really on me too much usually between my legs so i'm not sweating And it just blows it right on her. And I'll hear her go, oh. And she'll take and roll herself up into blankets.

And sometimes I wake up in the morning, and she's gone to one of the guest bedrooms. So I know that it's gotten much worse than. And that's love. Like, that is real true love right there. No, you want to hear true love. Here's a story for true love right here. So, no, this is good shit this is one of those times where i realize okay dude you need to fucking wise up you got to keep her here all right so a buddy of mine lived next door he

cooked me a steak son of a bitch gave me food poisoning god damn it j Anyway, so I eat the steak. And I remember we go home and we're getting in bed. And at that point, unfortunately, I was using Ambien to sleep because I was having a hard time sleeping. So I took my Ambien and I'm thinking usually I could feel it coming. I head for bed. And I'm like, it's not coming. So I kind of go to bed thinking and I'm laying there. I'm like, okay, I'm not falling asleep. Something's wrong.

Next thing you know, I start to feel this weird thing in my stomach. I go, son of a bitch. And like five minutes after that, I didn't feel sick, but I'm like, I'm going to throw up. It was like, just knew. It was like God tapped me on the shoulder and said, get up and go into the bathroom. So I get up and go in the bathroom bathroom and i don't throw up in the toilet it hurts too bad to be on my hands and knees bent over like that so i throw up in the sink so i start throwing up i'm just you know and i'm thinking to myself is this this chunks are coming

out of me i'm like you should have chewed this better because this fucking hurts coming out of here you know these chunks of steak are going in the sink and i'm just just going and i start the sink is filled up and i'm like oh my god what am i gonna do well we have the dual sink so i jump over the other sink and i start throwing up in that one and she's in there and she's kind of rubbing my back and the other one's getting full and i'm you know between the retching i'm looking over and i'm seeing the other one it's not drained right and She's looking there. The next thing you know, I don't feel the stroke on my back. I look over there and she is taking her bare hands, going down,

fishing out chunks of steak and throwing it in the toilet. Now, right there, come on now. What else do you want? That right there is a good woman. That was one of those times where, I mean, it would have made a horrific mess if she had not done that. Or I'd have had to go to the toilet, which most wives would have said, you son of a bitch, get on your hands and knees.

But she was gracious enough to. You ever have a double dragon happen? Double dragons where it comes out of the mouth and the butt at the same time. That's terrible. happen double dragons where it comes out of the mouth and the butt at the same time that's yeah that's terrible and then the problem is when that starts to happen and you're thinking oh here it comes you make the quick spin well usually that's the point that's the point that's the point where where it starts to come out your ass again and you shoot that on the covers on the you know when you're making the turn so you've had experience with this. Yeah, unfortunately. And then the worst part is when this happened, I was cleaning up my own shit.

Literally. That day I had to clean up my own shit. I was like, no, this is not okay. Yeah. Oh, my God. You recently on your IG story, and I've seen this video, Mark showed it, where you're posing and it's, oh. And Mark has the best definition for it and i think this is what you were looking for earlier

it's like somebody tearing carpet out and that's what the sound is there we go yeah well see that's a good thing see that that tells you you got a tight sphincter you know it'd be yeah if it just if you let a fart just want to

think oh what is this guy been doing you know If you let it fart, you just want to... That's bad news. What has this guy been doing? You're a disgusting man, and I love it. Well, you know the bottom line is that this is stuff that happens to everybody. Yeah. But I just have no problem talking about it. Sure does. That's it.

Have you noticed if you cook your egg whites that you don't end up with the same gut problem? Yeah, keep in mind, there's a certain amount I can drink, and I don't have the issue. Right. Once I cross that issue, once I get over that barrier, so what I really do is I cook them. You know, when I'm at home, when we have all our resources, basically what I'm going to do is I'm going to have a bowl of my food and the bottom is going to be egg whites and the top will be some sort of flesh. And then I deal with the Splenda and the peanut butter powder and the soy sauce and everything else that I put on there.

But the cooked, when I drink, it's largely because I'm behind on my cooking of the egg whites. And you're trying just to get the extra protein in there. Yeah. I think this would be an amazing, amazing part to kind of give the people tips on how to get protein in easier. You already mentioned the egg whites, but like some people out there are like, I just can't eat my 200 grams. I just feel too, you know, I'm not hungry enough.

That's a great question, and it's something that I deal with all the time because people that come to me that want to put on muscle and they're having a hard time eating. Well, because when you think about what your body, the job, your body has a job to process what you eat. And everybody's different. Everybody digests differently. And so there are going to be foods that you're going to have to remove from what somebody's eating because it's basically taking the efficiency of their digestive track away. Or, you know, they're just, it can be way off balance. I mean, the bottom line is they're having trouble eating and it's real

because there's something wrong. And, and the, you know, a good, a good coach, a good nutritionist is going to, you don't just work from the outside in, you got to work from the inside out. You know, one of the things that I'm constantly working on with people is how to keep their digestive juices fresh, so to speak, because you can't just, I mean, you can't just stuff all this stuff in there. It's like, you got to change the oil in your car. You know, you can't just

drive the thing until it breaks. Well, people do that, but these are not the people that are trying to build muscle, you know? So that's part of the problem right there. They can't eat enough because they're not processing efficiently. So once you get the processing scored away, I mean, it could be because they're eating too much at once that jams their track. It could be because they're eating foods that are too processed. It could be because they're eating foods like, for example, for me, if you took 50 grams or let's call it 30 because that's roughly an avocado. Take 30 grams of avocado or 30 grams of almond butter. I'm going to digest that avocado twice as fast, literally twice as fast.

So when I'm in, that's kind of the same thing with egg whites. The egg whites allows me to digest faster. If I got a really good organic beef, I can digest that like a mother. But if it's not a really good organic beef, it's going to be slower. You know? Yeah, I think beef is like, it's pretty amazing. I think it may be because it takes a while to actually, it takes a while to actually break it down. You know, it might, it might quote unquote digest slow, but because it digests slow, I think you assimilate it really well. It doesn't give you hardly any stomach issues.

Yeah, I mean, beef is something that way back in the beginning, and it's one of my first real sponsors, was actually a company called Grassland Beef. Now they're called U.S. Wellness Beef. And this was back before the organic push was recognized. And so he was like, hey, you know, I need help. He came up to me at a straw man expo. Excuse me, a straw man show. It was actually the LA Fit Expo when it was first started. There was just a handful of us doing an exhibition.

He said, hey, I need some help, you know, getting this. He said, I got this underground locker. It was in Missouri, some underground freezer full of ground beef. He couldn't sell it. I mean, he had customers, but not enough. And he said, look, I'll give you all the ground beef you want. Just help me get my brand out there. And so there was a handful of us, myself, Jesse Morande, rest his soul.

You know, we started helping him promote this stuff. But we were getting like 100 to 150 pounds of organic grass-fed ground beef every month. And I was just, I mean, I had no idea. I was probably looking back, probably one of the variables that really helped me in my strength career because that organic beef fat is powerful. I mean, you're talking about, you know, the omegas and all of the good fats off the charts, you know? So, but ultimately that you got to get food in your stomach that your body can

digest so that you can actually improve that level of processing. So you're, because when you get that down, you'll be hungry and hunger is good. Unfortunately, so many people, you know, we, our society tells us, oh, you're overeating. You're not supposed to eat much. Well, no, eating is good. It's fuel, you know, and it's kind of conflicting. A lot of people that don't understand, they get kind of taken off course by some of the things that are said by people who don't know. Yeah, and that's actually perfect.

Yeah, and that's actually perfect. And I don't want to pick on the person in the live chat, but they're just kind of referencing that like some of the research might not show or it's it was a long winded message. But basically saying, you know, the research doesn't necessarily show that like a high protein diet without fiber is actually like healthy for you. Now, there you go. Thank you, brother. is actually like healthy for you. Now, there you go. Thank you, brother. So what are you like?

Do you focus on fiber and that sort of thing? Like, how do you keep it safe? I guess I'm sorry. Can you? I was actually so happy. Mark brought me more stuff. I did. I lost some of that.

Can you give it to me? Absolutely. Yeah. Somebody was commenting about like the research on a high proteinprotein diet and how it's not necessarily there yet. But the dangers of going high-protein with no carbs or nothing else, especially fiber. Do you focus on getting fiber in at all, or what's your take on the research? Well, there's definitely a couple of sides to that. Number one, I was just on Dr. Baker's show not too long ago when we were actually talking about high levels of protein. And this is a guy who stays on top of all of the medical journals.

So you want someone who can give you what's really going on and what's being proven and tested. He's the guy. And he said there's absolutely nothing that tells us that high levels of protein is hard on our organs, which is most people will guarantee that fact. So that's something, you know, I've always felt myself, but you know, to have somebody like him who stays on top, because, you know, you, you might hear that a couple of years ago, but what's current, it changes, you know, nutrition changes like technology, you know, what was, what was proven last year could be disproven this year so this was a month ago so i'm very confident to put my stamp on that because i trust dr baker i think we all we all do he's a yeah absolutely very very knowledgeable guy so that

the whole thing of the high protein we can throw that out the window now for me personally, I use fiber and different types of fiber to really keep my digestive juices alive. You know, when I talk about flax seeds, flax seeds are, for me, what happens is it really keeps my digestion going. I mean, I use vegetables, you know, obviously they're fiber, but I also really use the micronutrient values is what I'm looking for in the vegetable. I'll use the flaxseed to kind of keep my digestion up. But, you know, it'll go in and, I mean, I don't understand the science to the T, so I'm just really kind of paraphrasing here.

But there's different types of fibers in flaxseed, chia seeds. I know flaxseed works best for me. Because keep in mind, there's all sorts of methods, but what works best for the individual is really what we're getting down to. Flaxseeds in my diet once or twice a day, it basically goes in and it takes the digestive juices that have started to kind of wear out or not work as well, pulls them out of there. Your body at that point starts to create newer ones. So you keep your digestive power. It's almost like an oil change.

And so for me, the fiber is really has more to do with keeping my digestion up to speed. It also helps me take nice, you know, Hey, I guess it keeps the cutter clean as well. Cause if I don't have a, you know,

like tapered shit, I'll be totally honest. You know, we've been we've been traveling, you know, and so, you know, we travel a lot. And so you don't always have your resources. And so I haven't been on top of my fiber, you know. And so there's, you know, I mean, I'm a big morning dump guy. I get up and I'm ready to go. So there's, you know, I mean, I'm a big morning dump guy. I get up and I'm ready to go.

And when everything is good, you know, it's a relatively easy job to get myself cleaned up to get about my day. When I don't have my resources, it's often a second shower. I always shower at night. I always shower at night because I like to wake up. I like to have today has been prepared yesterday. I don't wake up and figure what's going on. So, you know, to be totally honest, when I can't clean myself up efficiently, I give it a hell of a college trial. I even go to the wet wipes before I get in the shower because the shower wasn't planned. And you're like, this ain't working.

Yeah. I'm like, look, okay. You know, you're just going to be easier to get in the shower at this point. Save some time. It's not planned, but it's going to be more efficient. So, you know, usually I don't have to clean myself, only from the waist down. So, you know, it's a short shower. You know, it's funny about

fiber. Like years ago, I used to really focus on fiber. And I kind of hate to admit this, but I barely eat any fiber these days. I eat a lot of protein. I eat a lot of fat. Sometimes I'll have carbs, like I supplement carbs. I think I'm going to start phrasing it that way. But I like it.

Yeah, I'm going to start phrasing it that way. But fiber, I haven't been eating. I haven't even been like focusing on eating fiber for like over a year now. And my digestion's been great. I used to think that I needed it. I needed a lot of it, right? But it's been all right. Well, I mean, clearly, this is kind of what we're talking about.

It's all specific to the individual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly, you're in kind of a sweet spot for what you're doing. My guess would be, I'll never know because I won't do this, but my guess would be if I wasn't pushing my digestive tract so hard, I probably wouldn't need it. Oh, yeah. But I mean, if I'm this is the way I do it. You know, I am. It's either off or it's on.

And if it's on, it's wide open. So if I'm going to push, I have to do all the little things, you know, and that's that's kind of one of what's really with all of my life. I take pride in the fact that I do all the little things to make it work. Because you can go to the gym. You can eat, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it's really all of the little things that make this work in a way that gets you where you want to go. Yeah. I don't eat much fiber either.

I don't think it really matters a ton, you know. You're looking good. You're looking jacked, brother. Thank you. I appreciate it. I think, you know, sometimes there's like a difference between, you know, what's kind of in your best interest, what's good for you, and then what's optimal sometimes is like a totally different thing. So none of us really know, but I don't think anybody knows what's optimal. You know, they just kind of throw out these blanket things. You should have 40 grams of fiber every day. And that seems very excessive to me personally. Yeah. I mean, totally brother. And I love the word optimal because I use that often. I tell my, you know, the people I help, look, we need to

optimize your system because everybody's system has an ability to, to make a certain amount of progress and everybody's progress is going to be different. What are you capable of? Let's find out, let's optimize what your body will give us. And so on that level, it could, sometimes it could be like for me, if I use too many flax seeds, I just take a much bigger dump. It's not an easier cleaning job. It's just more to flush down. I realize that when I'm doing my flax seeds, I know that there's a certain amount

that I can use to get the job done. But to be totally honest, I really like it when I take a dump and it stacks up out of the water. I feel accomplished if you do that. That's it. When you get it, when it goes under the water, the water's kind of i feel accomplished that's it that's it when you get because when you get it when it see when it goes under the water the water is kind of designed to hold that smell down but when the when it stacks up and it's cresting then then you cresting yeah that's right

that's it see then then people in the house then people in the house know you're getting it on they know what happened that's it that is a proud moment right that's it yeah do you guys think that with the like the high fiber thing um it's mainly for people that are consuming a lot of carbs because like what i hear often is it's like oh let me get this high fiber or extra fiber in to make me feel full instead of like keeping it low fiber and then maybe not getting as full? I would think for me, it's almost like that person or the thought process behind that is eating a lot of vegetables to fill you up. Yeah.

It's, we're not talking about using fiber as a methodology of feeling full. We're talking about a methodology of using fiber to optimize our digestive powers. Yeah, got it. So, I mean, but keep in mind, I came from that world too, you know, where I was trying to eat, you know, things that, you know, you can eat as much celery as you want, you know. In the beginning of me figuring out my system, I was overeating something, and I would eat a lot of different shit, you know.

There is evidence that fiber does slow down digestion. So you can make an argument that it could potentially help somebody get a little leaner, depending on what they were eating and kind of how they were going about it. But I think for the three of us, we don't really use it much. I'll just eat it occasionally. I'll eat vegetables occasionally just to kind of get more full, more so than anything else. Yeah, and one of the things that for me and my practices and what I teach the people I work with is that to optimize – I mean, body fat storage is a safety blanket for the body.

It's scared. It's doing that because it's missing something. Well, if it had everything it needed, it would let go of that body fat, right? So when you use the right amount of fiber to help nutrient upload and you have the proper diet with the right nutrients and the body can upload it and the body's happy, it's not scared, it's not uncomfortable,

it'll start dumping off that body fat largely because it doesn't feel the need for a safety blanket anymore. And so a lot of times people look at losing body fat from the wrong side of the fence. They think, oh, eat less, more activity. That just scares the body even more. It prompts it to try to put on more body fat. So people are always talking about calorie deficit, calorie deficit.

I mean, yes, it works. It's proven, but it's a struggle. Your body's fighting you every step of the way. Come from the other side. You know, what we're talking about is how to be using fiber for a better efficiency of your upload and your digestion. Well, then you get that proper and you get the right micronutrient values coming through there. Your body's able to suck them up.

It's like, whoa. You know, when people start to have better energy, they start sleeping better. They start getting stronger. And all of a sudden, they're like, wait a minute. I got to cut a new hole in my belt. But they're never hungry. It's really not about a deficit at that point.

It's about taking this creature that can work with you or work against you and getting it on your side. Yeah, protein and fiber are similar in the sense that they're not great energy sources, but they can help fill you up. Totally. How do you use, because you went through a good amount of liquid here today, how are you using like water and hydration? Because I know a big part of your diet and your nutrition and what you help people with is just to keep them from being hungry.

Yeah. Well, I mean, keep in mind, never hungry is one of the staples of what I teach. But it's, it never hungry is really a rule that I help people understand that helps them reach their goals. People don't say that I want to, I don't want to be hungry. That's not where they come to.

They come to because they want to get better shape. Usually they want to lose body fat. So the first thing we got to do is we got to get the body. we got to do is we got to get the body. We got to basically get the body to stop thinking it's going to have to save body fat. So if it's hungry, it's directly saying the body, okay, next time you eat, it's going to store something because it's been left without. So never hungry is really something that I help people understand when you're hungry,

it prompts your body to store. So we want to get rid of that. That's the first step. So in terms of the water, which is never water, this is the fat boy loves the sweet shit. If you took a drink of that, it would be pretty startling how sweet it is. What's in it? Because we don't have all our resources. It's just one of those goddamn squirt things. Like a Mio thing or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. But, you know, water consumption for me is big because, you know, our body has so much water.

Because I don't eat carbohydrate, it doesn't really have the – carbohydrate takes water to store. So my body doesn't carry lots of water in terms of, cause I'm carbohydrate free. So I'm basically constantly drinking water and I feel better when I, when I stay on top of my water, what I do is I schedule it. So these bottles represent a certain period of my day and it makes a big difference. I mean, I mean, like I'm sitting here licking my lips cause I ran out, Mark, thank God you went and got my bottle because I start getting dry lips when I start getting dehydrated just that quick. But again, do I have to do it? I could totally work it differently. But it's just me doing what I need to do to optimize what I love to do.

You don't want to get behind, be hungry and have cravings and so on. Yeah. I mean, the water helps digestion, you know, it's healthy in terms of keeping everything cleansed. You know, so there's a lot of upside to drinking water. Obviously you can drink too much water, don't get me wrong. It's not like it's the more, the more you drink, the better, but I find for myself, there's a certain amount that I drink where I feel the best. for myself, there's a certain amount that I drink where I feel the best. I find it really interesting how like, um, we got to the, but all of us got to the place of like, I guess dealing with hunger and cravings in a different way because like I, I still can, but I could eat a lot of food.

And when I was like two 60 to 70 something, um, the hardest thing for me when trying to cut was like like always feeling hungry when i when i felt hungry i had to eat so like both of us started using some fasting and we found that we first off got used to the feeling of hunger but then now when our body feels hungry i i and you we don't feel prompted to go eat we can just eat a big ass meal at the end of the day right and you were doing the same things because you like, you're just eating consistent protein throughout all the day just so that you're never hungry, but we all overeat protein.

And because of that, we're able to maintain really, really good body compositions. I mean, there's, there's no question. There's so many formulas, you know,

and one of the things that everybody understands too, is that let's, let's just say that everybody can agree that we're all in fairly good shape. Let's just assume that that's, that's going to be taken by the audience. Okay. So that being said, you know, the things that, that we can do and get away with, or, you know, like fasting and this, that, and the other is going to affect very differently to somebody like us versus someone who's 80 pounds overweight that's trying to so you know a lot of these methods are you know that people use work great in certain circumstances or a certain person and just because it works for them doesn't mean that they should

run off and do it themselves not understanding what's going on yeah what you're saying is huge because what if somebody listening is they would just really have never even tried a diet at all or it's somebody that has failed many times with a diet or it's someone that has lost weight and then gained. I mean, there's so many different scenarios. Totally. So for one person, we might recommend intermittent fasting. That might work great for them. But for somebody else, it might be catastrophic and just lead to more and more binge eating.

100%. I mean, I say people, generally speaking, if people are using fasting as a means to lose weight, I don't think that's a good practice. Because when you fast, your blood sugar is going lower and lower during the fast. Well, you get to certain points where it's low enough, the body sends out that emergency signal and says, I need sugar now. And that's a battle that is hard to certain points are low enough. The body sends out that emergency signal says I need sugar now. And that's a, that's a battle that is hard to win. You know how long are you going to fight that for?

Yeah. And then you get somebody who usually if someone's like really overweight and even I'm, you know, a classic case, I'm a sugar addict. My sugar, my blood sugar gets too low.

I have a hell of a time eating the right shit. You know, it's, my blood sugar gets too low, I have a hell of a time eating the right shit. It's very difficult for me to make a proper choice when my blood sugar is low, much like it would be hard for me to make a good choice if I was drunk. So, again, it's really so specific. And so I totally agree, Mark. People need to be careful with some of the things they hear. You know, the thing that I the thing that I really been preaching, knowledge is the power you got. You can't just, oh, work for my neighbor.

I'm going to try it. Learn a little bit, you know, and the hard part is, is that it's hard to find the right information nowadays. That's the challenge. I think is a good segue into talking about performance enhancing drugs there's uh so much going on with like trt and hrt and we're you know we're just seeing like a huge uptick of young people on youtube and tiktok and instagram uh guys that are you know 15 16 years old just talking about like wanting to do their first cycle or they already have yeah they already have and we're just like oh man like uh you know we know uh you know we we know what the deal is with it but a lot of people don't know what the deal is with it and they're jumping into things recklessly and there's

a lot of uh information kind of swirling around and it's hard to it's hard to grasp the right information and i try to encourage people as much as possible, like try to find as many resources as you can before you make the decision. You know, and what I share for myself personally is, you know, I started doing them when I was about 25 and I never stopped. And so it's something to think about and consider, like you might feel the need, like as I do to be on them potentially for the rest of my life. And I think that's a big decision that some of these young people might want to think twice about. You know, on that topic, I think probably one of the biggest, I guess the biggest negatives,

the biggest damaging factor was the internet. Because, you know, the internet, you get these message boards and you get people going on there talking about what they're doing and you get some kid that reads oh well you know whatever this guy's handle is you know big boy 25 you know or you know strong bench presser 85 whatever it is oh well you know he benches 500 pounds he says it on the message board he does all this that and the other so he'll take that as fact and he'll go out and he'll try to, then he's got the whole acquisition problem. You know, he's got to go through, you know, acquiring this stuff. And, you know, it's, it's the black market has become such a terrible place for acquisition. But the best piece of advice that I can give to anybody about this whole topic is

you, I mean, it's, it's a, to have some medical backing to the journey is the number one thing because it's harmful. You know, you, you need to understand what it does. You understand what the, what the risks are. You understand how to combat it. And you're not going to learn this stuff on a goddamn message board. You know, I'm curious. Do you also believe that you like do that? You're going to learn this stuff on a goddamn message board. You know? I'm curious. Do you also believe that you're going to be doing stuff for the rest of your life, too? Obviously, that the stuff can be done in a healthy fashion. But do you also feel like, is there ever a point that you'll stop or not? I mean, the thing with TRT and having a doctor overlook you totally changes the game.

You know? And that's the thing. You know, like I think you just mentioned the other day, you know, TRT, it's become such a common thing, especially now a male over 40, you know, or excuse me, actually, I think it's 35. As soon as you're over 35, it used to be 40. You know, it's just like, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. You know, and any athlete that has dealt with any injury has dealt with this type of a scenario in terms of being prescribed by a doctor. Everything from PEDs to painkillers to antibiotics. I mean, you name it. Anti-inflammatories.

But the key is it's information. Going back to what we're talking about with the diet. Same thing. It's all information-based, you know? And so for somebody that's going to carry on in a, you know, in the deeper part of their life, you know, if your endocrine system, which is basically the environment, you know, of your hormones, if your endocrine system is tanked, you know, because for whatever reason, a lot of times people's endocrine system is tanked just because poor diet, a lot of things.

It's very, very difficult to carry on at any sort of high level. So TRT has really been a savior for older athletes. Absolutely. Let me ask you this. Mark mentioned that he started when he was 25. How many years of lifting? Was that 12 years of lifting already? Right.

Right? How about you? Did you lift for a while before you did that? Well, my first experience came in terms of an injury. You run into an injury, you're prescribed, and then it kind of opens the door. Okay. And let me ask this, too, because we have a lot of listeners that range in ages. But a lot of young guys, after two years of lifting, three years of lifting, they're like, Oh, I've, I've peaked out

my, my, my potential. Now I'm going to hop on and start some shit. Right. What would your suggestion be? Obviously get them, get somebody to watch over you as you do whatever you do. Somebody that knows their stuff, a doctor ideally. But, um, but outside of that, if somebody wants to make that leap into the realm of anabolics, what should they be thinking about? How long do you think they should have lifted? Because in my personal opinion, I think a lot of people, first off, they're not lifting. Great question. Great question.

So how long should they be lifting? That's the question we're asking. Well, let's go backwards a little bit. How long have you actually tried this journey with the proper nutrition and the lifting because again this is like icing you're gonna put on a cake right well if you don't have a fucking cake you've got a mouthful icing and we've all been to a birthday party and get went that went for that fucking corner because you wanted a lot of icing and realize oh son of a bitch i didn't get any cake and it's actually not a very good bite.

Who wants a mouthful of icing? So when it comes down to it, to answer that question, diets in check, trainings in check. There's going to be a – if your diet's in check and your training's in check, you're going to go through a really good phase of gain. And once you get to that point and the gains become much harder, but you're still doing what you're supposed to do, that's the point where you start making choices. That's the crossroad. You know, I mean, so many people just want to do it because everybody else is. And the thing about it is it doesn't do the job for you.

You know, again, if there's no cake, there's no place to put the icing, you know? And so it's just that simple. You know, it's, you know, people who, I mean, it's funny, you get all sorts of people that will say, oh, you know, this, that, and the other, and they have this idea. Well, those people clearly don't have the experience because that idea that they're speaking of is completely untrue, you know? So it's, it's hard work, proper nutrition, consistency. When that runs its course that now you're at the crossroad where you can, you know, you can make a responsible decision, like meaning,

okay, I've done what I've done. And for some people that may go a long time, you know, other people may be shorter, but the question you got to ask yourself is, did you basically maximize what you could do? Because it's an enhancement, you know, it's, it doesn't do the job for you. What, uh, what is the most is the most frequently asked question that you get? You know, if you're at a grocery store or, you know, if you're walking around in a tank top, what do people usually ask you? Like they ask you about your arms, your traps, your lats. They ask anything specific or? You know, usually what it comes down to, and actually my wife kind of helped me register this, is that they'll ask me a question, which, you know, a lot of times is kind of, you know, it's kind of silly. They'll say, do you work out?

Well, you know, it's just, it's like saying, you know, it is the sky blue. They're recognizing. Yeah, they're recognizing. Yeah, and really what they're saying, they're just trying to start a conversation. And then I started to realize, okay, it's not just, they just don't know how to open up. Well, know how to start a conversation and then i started to realize okay it's not just they just don't know how to open up well know how i start the conversation so yeah i work out no that's not what i say i said no i was born this way and then they're like what and i said i'm no i'm joking but what i'm doing is i'm trying to lighten the condition i have that's right i'd rather you not point it out very sensitive yeah right. I don't,

please don't talk about that. So, so it's really what I'm doing is when I come back and say something like that, I'm just breaking the ice. So then they can really ask what they want to ask, which is usually a piece of advice of some sort. You know, how come we need women for that every time?

Right. They, they simplify it. That's great that she's like, Oh, they're just trying to talk to you. And you're thinking like, this guy's a fucking idiot.

Why is he asking me if I work out? Well, you know, when I started to actually help people with nutrition, then it really kind of turned how I looked at it. Because then I realized, you know, to help somebody, give somebody helpful information is a huge part of what I do now. helpful information is a huge part of what I do now. I just, I mean, I enjoy helping people recognize, you know, what they didn't recognize before to help them do something they couldn't do before. So once I actually started to coach and help people with nutrition, you know, and motivate people, then it became a much different deal. You know, before that, it was like, God, you know, just ask me the question but now it's it's i just become more sensitive to it you can get in a really good conversation

with somebody because you know could be somebody you know at a store or something like that and they could be an older person they could be in their 50s or 60s and then you could unleash the fact that you're 49 on them and they can be like, what the hell? And say, yeah, I've taken care of my body for a really long time and it's not too late for you to start and you can start lifting and so on. Well, and the thing about it too is that is a lot of times what's happened is they've been so programmed by the fitness industry buying all this shit. They're spending all this money on stuff that doesn't work. I'm like, look, save your money.

And I say, you see that section over there? See where all that beef is? Spend your money over there, you're going to be happier, you're going to be healthier, and you're going to get stronger. They're like, really? But the guy in the GNC told me this. Did he look like me? You know, real quick, I'm probably safe to assume this,

but you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't like red meat or I like chicken more. I like whatever. So as far as your red meat's concerned, it seems that it's a majority of beef or do you also eat a lot? Do you eat quite a bit of fish,

chicken? What does that look like? Great question, brother. Yeah. So, so we spend, we have a house in Mexico and so we spend a lot of time down there as well.

And the, the beef down there, totally different. In a good way? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, keep in mind, when you look at their cows, they look sick. I remember literally asking, you know, hey, what's wrong with the cow? No, nothing wrong with the cow.

You're just used to seeing the hormone, you know,'s wrong with the cow no nothing wrong with the cow you're just used to seeing the hormone you know the overly bloated and you know they're just our cows are just like over the top you know hormoned up you know and so our beef is almost bland you know now you get like dude every time we have a guest in mexico Check this out. You take a bite. You're like, it's like music going off in your head. Like, where did all this flavor come from? And so to answer your question, we eat more chicken and more fish when we're in the U.S. We eat beef just about solely down there. So I'm egg whites and beef down there.

Up here, we, you know, we have to kind of spread it out a little bit. A lot of ground turkey up here. But yeah, so that being said, I mean, if I had that beef in Mexico all the time, oh yeah. Okay. You do some weird stuff with the meat as you get closer to like a bodybuilding show. I remember you kind of telling me that you do like a percentage of like ground beef and then you do a percentage like turkey and then you start eating more turkey and then you

start mixing in like egg whites because you're, I think what you're doing over time is you're reducing calories by just having leaner and leaner sources. Yeah, 100%. You have like such unusual styles, but I think, you know, when you get into it with bodybuilding and bodybuilders, like, they do weird shit with their food towards the end because you just don't care anymore. I mean, here's the thing, you know, and it can be said of all of us, right? According to the masses, we all do weird shit. Yeah. And we all do weird shit in our own way.

And that's part of the fun of this whole adventure is that what weird shit works the best for us you know and when you really become intrigued by how it all works you just you why would you ever want to stop trying new things you know that's for me that's it i mean i love trying new stuff on myself once i get it down that's kind of when i bring it forth to the people that I'm coaching, if they're interested in doing building muscle and getting stronger. Or even, God, I've got plenty of experience keeping myself lean, too. But the bottom line is, it just constantly changes. And I'm not the guy that's reading all of the current studies.

I'm the guy that's testing the shit of myself. Are you going to compete anytime soon? Yeah, we're actually, we're supposed to compete. Actually, the lady and I are supposed to compete at end of the year. Yeah, it's going to be, here's the hiccup is that to do a bodybuilding show, it's a four month prep. Even if you're in good shape, you just need that rhythm. And for sure, even if you start in good shape, that last three months, you got to be really locked in. Meaning every day is kind of groundhog day. Every day is kind of the same, you know? And I like that. It's, it feels good to me. That's that I'm very arithmetic,

but there's a lot of shit going on in our life right now. Like we just, we just basically bought a new place and out in the desert in Southern California, you know, we're having a big pool put in, there's a guest house being built. There's all this stuff that's going on and there's just, it takes that rhythm and breaks it up. And so the goal is to be able to get some of this shit settled down to where I can dig into, or we can dig into a good prep because the bottom line is if you don't do the work and you don't do it right, you don't have the look.

So it's kind of simple. It's just like, you know, in powerlifting or strongman, if you don't do the peak just right, you know, I mean, it's great. You did it in the gym, but you didn't do it when it counted. You really do have to kind of calculate the rest of your life around it. 100%. You might say, oh, I have a vacation there. That's probably not a good spot for that.

Yeah, and keep in mind, you could do it, but you also could not bring in your best look. So if you really want to do it right, you got to really kind of carve out that section of your life. So bottom line is that we would have to be hitting the ground running right at the 1st of August. So we've got a lot of shit that's hopefully going to tie up just in time. No more peanut butter cups and cookies, fat boy.

But you know, I'll tell you, though, they do have them. You ever tried those? What is the peanut butter cup you just got me? The unreal one? The new ones, yeah. It was Quest. Oh, yeah. When you don't eat a real peanut butter cup

for decades and then you get one of these call it fake come on so it's a peanut butter cup yeah yeah it's good i would not have known the difference that son of a bitch was i mean it almost made me drive to the gas station again not because i was freaking out over sugar but it was just so damn good yeah i was like, holy shit. See, the difference is now the nearest gas station is like 10 miles away. So it's a lot easier not to get in the car and go get something you're not supposed to.

There's a lot of food that's like that nowadays. Yeah. No, when it comes to, when it totally, when it comes to, you know, pleasing your taste buds, you can really do it without, you know, keeping sugar out of the equation now. It's pretty cool.

You know what Legendary Foods is? Have you ever heard of the brand? I have heard of that. They have these Pop-Tarts, man. Are they sugar-free? I don't know if we have any left. I don't know if we have any left. Oh, come on! The little fat boy in me is like playing

a violin right now. Legendary Foods has so many different flavors. There's red velvet. There's birthday cake. There's brown sugar. The cookies and cream ones are really, really good. Now you're talking my language, brother.

Warm up just a little bit. 20 grams of protein. 170 calories. It's insane. 23 grams of protein. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's insane. But I was going to ask you, how do you handle, like, the PB Fit, so the peanut butter powder?

Like, how do you not overdo that? Because I will find myself wanting to just, like, ah, it's 20 grams, ah, 26 grams. You know, I'm already at 30. I might as well just keep going. Well, so here's the thing, is that from a guy that overdoes everything, that was a challenge. But what I realize is that, you know, when it comes to flavors, I'm trying to have multiple flavors.

I'm not just trying to taste the peanut butter powder. So I realized when I put too much, it kills the other ones. And it took me a little while to figure that out because I was going, when that stir-fuck got released,

like it was like 2,000. This is a real fat guy talking. Oh, yeah. You're so particular with your taste buds. I love it. No, she, Terry calls me, i might eat like a pregnant woman no i i eat like a like a fat little boy that's what i eat like but now uh he did is the really pungent taste is what kind of makes that it that's what i'm after because it that really strong taste

kind of just makes him shut up. Some PB Fit, Andrew, and some salt. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. I mean, salt is a game changer in your diet, period. You need salt. Of course.

I mean, if you don't, if people think salt is bad, I salt every meal. Oh, yeah. You know? And especially with the water I drink. I mean, my water will carry a lot of minerals out of you. But salt is a, I mean, the sweet salt, that's where the money is, baby. A little bit of Splenda, a little bit of salt. So good.

Hell, I could just put that on a damn plate and finger it in. Yeah. I'll make, so I'll just use egg whites with the PB Fit. Yeah. Throw some salt on there and then some sugar-free syrup. And I'll just have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I'm telling you. Exactly. Exactly. Well, even if you're doing like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich a real one and i've done it plenty of times you get so much fucking peanut butter on

it you pick it up and it's falling out you know there can even be too much peanut butter which is hard to say but when you're talking to a guy well when you're spilling it all over yourself and you can't even get it and it's like if it doesn't get all over yourself and you can't even get it. And it's like, you know what I mean? Over the place. You need a good ratio along with your face. All right. Cause you two are nerding out with this. And I really want to know for people,

for people that have like a really good, really bad sweet tooth like yourself. Right. And you got, you can't necessarily just go and eat a bunch of Ben and Jerry's. It's not going to be good for the diet. You've mentioned Splenda. What are some things that people can add in now so that they can get deal with that sweet

tooth, but they're also not falling off the diet. What are your suggestions? Well, so the first thing with, with make, with managing your sweet tooth is this, of course, those flavors are key, but what you have to do is you've got to keep your blood sugar stable. If your blood sugar stable. If your blood sugar is down, the sugar-free stuff is not going to cure your problem because at that point, it's not a flavor. You're talking about putting off an alarm that your brain is sending out.

If your blood sugar is too low or too high, it can kill you. So your body sends out signals. It wants to be right in the middle. So if your blood sugar is stable, it's not really a craving like it's killing you, right? It's like, boy, I'd really like something sweet. Sometimes if you don't get to it, it sucks, but you can manage that. But if your blood sugar is down, there's no sugar-free thing that's going to make that go away. So let that be the first thing to understand. sugar-free thing that's going to make that go away. So let that be the first thing to understand.

Once your blood sugar is stable, then you can use, you know, peanut butter powder. Obviously, another thing I do is I'll use, like, sugar-free cocoa powder, put Splend in there. Make another really, really killer. My wife does it. I'll see if I screw this up. It's basically like a tapioca pudding. All right, so get your pencil and paper.

I'm going to put this recipe on the table here. So you need a big mixing bowl, a family-sized tub of Greek yogurt, low-fat or fat-free, a can of coconut cream. Correct me if I'm wrong. A cup of egg whites. And then you need like a half or a quarter cup of chia seeds, somewhere right in there, okay? So you put the chia seeds in the bowl.

You put the egg whites in there, right? Let it sit. The chia seeds will expand, right? Whatever that takes, 30 minutes, something like that. Then you take the coconut cream, can of coconut cream. Put that in there. Stir it really well. You've got to stir it hard because it'll actually kind of, it'll really get smooth, okay? Then you can put Splenda. You

can put whatever else you want in there to sweeten it, right? Then you're going to dump your can, or excuse me, your family tub of Greek yogurt. Put it in there, mix it again. Now you're to the point where you can kind of taste. You's you can get your flavor nailed down. I'll put peanut butter powder. I'll put more Splenda, possibly sugar-free syrups of different types. Okay. Once the flavor is nailed, it's still going to be a little loose. Put it in the fridge.

Come back the next day. It's like a kind of like a nice tapioca pudding. And the chia seeds give it that texture. Now, basically, it's a good fat. And it tastes killer. Now, the best part is, and I use this for people

that need that sweet thing at night, the chia seeds will go down in your stomach and it basically helps with the digestive tract. So, it's kind of a, it's a double positive. So, that's a killer one right there.

Wow. Yeah. Give me a nice, that sounds great. Give you some nice, uh, nice full belly. And the thing about is a cup of that stuff, it can go a long way. I mean, you take a cup of that, you take a cup, put it in a bowl, you know, put something else on top that you like, like put an almonds or something on there, something to get the crunch. Um,

you know, I'll usually put like some sort of an additional, you know, I'll mix some more peanut butter powder, some usually put like some sort of an additional, I'll mix some more peanut butter powder, some more syrup, some more of this. And so I've got like a something I'll put on top of it. But you really, at that point, you've got some, it's really, it's being created with your taste buds at that point. One thing I like about stuff like this is that it just, it, I know some people don't think they have time for stuff, but I like that it takes up time because I like that

it can be part of a hobby. And now you're creating a healthier hobby. Like before you were going out of your way to drive to your favorite restaurant or go to your fast food or your favorite convenience store or whatever it was. And you had these practices that weren't great. Now you completely shifted. And not only are you taking up time, but you're also filling yourself up with something that's healthy and kind of rewarding, you know? And so I think, I think it's great. I've seen a lot of people make that shift and you know, and then they make that shift so much that they are like super meticulous with always carrying around their meals and all those kinds of things.

Yeah. I mean, because really what happens a lot is that once people kind of, once they get put in a position where they start to, if you think about like, say a better way to put it, we all do things every day to feel good, happy, whatever your definition is. Sometimes people drink an energy drink because they want more energy. So all of these little things that you do, right? They're all designed to help you feel better, have a better life. Well, if you just kind of get rid of some of these things, you know, energy drinks and all the energy you're putting into the wrong spot, you put into the right spot, which is proper nutrition. It gives you so much more. And once people realize, oh, my God, I can feel like this and all I have to do is that,

the trade is, there's no way you wouldn't make the trade. And that's one of the biggest things that I really want people to understand is that proper nutrition can fix all of these things. I mean, you get people of high blood pressure medicine, off-depression medicine, they have more energy, They sleep better. So all of the shit that they're doing, all the energy they're wasting can be fixed just with the basics. Do you fish? You know, when I was a little fat boy, I used to fish.

You don't fish anymore. Do you hunt? No, but I do want to fish again because the place we just moved, the lake has got a lot of catfish in it. Do you play tennis? No. Do you play tennis? No. Do you play golf? Occasionally.

Do you play cards? Occasionally. You know, a lot of us, I think, you know, we push off a lot of other, like, hobbies. And then when somebody asks you, like, hey, do you have a hobby? We're like, we just, like, lift. Yeah, well, then, but that yeah well then but it's not just the lifting it's like there's a whole lifestyle behind it i think we we kind of undersell it you know we're like oh yeah i just kind of lift but it's not just the lifting it's the lifting it's

the community it's the at-home prep of you guys preparing like every day is consumed by this uh it's i mean you're a professional at it, but it's a hobby, you know? And I think a lot of times people are like, well, I don't understand. Like, how do you have fun? And you're like, no, I'm having fun every day. Just relax. And you think of it like this. This is a thing that I always kind of explain to people is that if money didn't exist tomorrow, how different would your life be? Well, I would

still be doing a majority of what I'm doing. And that's a really helpful way to understand it. To the point of what you're saying, Mark, even if I didn't make a living, do what I do, I would still be doing it. I enjoy it. rather lift some lift weights or or you know do something that's you know in the realm of lifting weights rather than go fishing i'd like to fish after i'm done but i would always choose to lift weights before go fishing because it's just my totem pole you know so it you know it's it's you know fishing would be more work for me you know than training you know earlier in the conversation we got how how we, oh yeah, the throwing up. We landed on, you mentioned how you took an Ambien that night, right?

Now I was curious, like what are the practices that you take to make sure that you always get good sleep at night? Because some people like have really big problems sleeping. Sleeping is the biggest thing. Absolutely. One percent. And people that know what they're talking about will say, look, if you didn't get good rest, if you're too tired, don't go to the gym.

It doesn't make sense. It's kind of like, you know, if you're, you don't go to the gym, bust your ass. If you're not eating properly, you're, you're getting your priorities out of line. So sleeping is one of those things that it's very, it's, it's hard for people. So it's the discipline. I'm usually in bed at eight o'clock. Whoa. Yeah. Now I get up early because I, in a perfect world, I wake up just for my alarm, which is most cases because I go to bed at eight. Now there's a discipline in that. A lot of times do I want to stay up?

Yes. Do I? Most cases not. If I do stay up, it's because I've, I've kind of tried to plan it where the next day is going to be allowed where I can kind of catch up. But sleep is one of those things.

There's a discipline to it. You got to be disciplined with the things that are hard for you. You know, a lot of people have a hard time with their diets. A lot of people have a hard time with their exercise. Well, sleep is the same thing. And people, oh, I'm just going to sleep in tomorrow. Well, sometimes that helps. Sometimes it doesn't because once you get programmed in many cases, even if I go to bed late, I'm still going to wake up. Yes. The time I wake up. So it's not about allowing yourself to sleep longer. Because the times where I do, I'll have the time where I'll say, oh, I'm going to try to sleep. I get an extra 30 minutes or something.

So the key is go to bed earlier. And even if you're not falling asleep, you're off your feet, you're resting, and you're working towards creating that pattern. So a lot of times people don't recognize that going to bed on time, even if it doesn't work right away, the investment of your effort is building a pattern that your body will eventually grab a hold of. Yeah. I think a big key thing that you mentioned is you try to go to sleep every day at 8 o'clock. It's because your body will have itself set up with a circadian rhythm. And even if you were to sleep at 11, you still have the tendency to open your eyes at whatever that time is. And then when you try to get that little extra sleep, it's usually not quality.

Yes. Right? So you can't be going to sleep at 8 one day, 11 one day, 10 one day, 11 one day. It doesn't work. 100%. And another thing, too, I think that people drastically overlook is that you sometimes can feel when, like in the day, like if you can fall asleep. If your body naturally wants to go down and you can allow that, I mean, those 30-minute naps are powerful. We're talking about supercharged shit.

You wake up, you're like, come on, let's go, baby. You know, and a lot of times you don't wake up from a full night's rest feeling that way you know because for whatever reason your body said hey let's go down right now and it's on point to max it's optimizing that 30 minutes of sleep man you know how do you think you were able to develop such a big back you have a enormous back and you got a small waist that's uh well you know the funny part is is that I still look at my waist and think that it's chunky. And, you know, obviously I give myself credit for the big back, but I still look at my waist and think the ratio is all fucked up. So the back is a monstrous slab of meat.

back is a monstrous slab of meat. And just like anything else that's big, so to speak, or, you know, there's time. I mean, I've been training for a long time. But then at the same time, the different types of training that I've done has been a huge part of it. In the first part of my training, I didn't really deadlift much. And then when I started getting into strength where I was, holy shit, I better catch up here. Because, you know, if you're not deadlifting, deadlifting is a part of strength athletics, whether you like it or not. You know, you can try to deny it, but all you're doing is leaving yourself behind, you know. So I started deadlifting. And how? The normal crazy shit that I've always done was squats.

I believe I still have a, it's an amateur record. I only spent a couple of contests as an amateur in straw man. So just thinking about this hurts. 60 seconds, 500 pounds, 21 reps. So. Squats? Deadlifts. Deadlifts deadlifts yeah yeah yeah so i could actually squat that and do it faster because it's a you know the movement's a little bit more you know deadlift you're waiting for a down signal and up signal so you got you're at the you're kind of at the mercy of the judge you know but but so ultimately really where my, where I had a

big wide back from doing all the pull-ups, cause I was a big pull-up guy, pull down guy. When I came to strongman, I was, holy shit, I better pick up the slack on picking shit up off the floor. So I started, uh, you know, I, again, went to, got some, got a little bit of technique training. So I knew, you know, kind of where I was really supposed to be focusing my efforts and then just got and started nailing it so i i mean in strongman you you see max deadlifts you know more now but when i was in it was always okay how many times can you left you did you do 700 pounds how many times can you do 500 pounds how many times can you do 500 pounds? How many times can you do 650? And so you just hook up and you go. And there is no better, you know, there's nothing better to make a back dense than time under a load doing a deadlift. Because, I mean, the bottom line is if you're suspending that weight, there's something that's working, you know.

And so deadlifting has been a huge piece of it. Pull-ups is another huge piece of it. But I think that's really what it comes down to is, is all of my growth patterns were, were put together with this, you know, how many times can I do this weight? Any major progress that I've made with the growth pattern, you know, or strength or just putting on good tissue has been that format. So I would have to give it to, um, you know, all of the deadlift training leading up to and during my strongman career. Cause then when I went to wrestle, I stopped deadlifting altogether. I actually, for a period of time, I even stopped squatting because, you know, you know, you can't have sore legs and go bounce around the ring, man,

Stop squatting because, you know, you can't have sore legs and go bounce around the ring, man. You know? So then, you know, going back to deadlifting when I came into bodybuilding was killer because now I'm deadlifting with the idea of keeping the muscle engaged, not just how many times I've got to rip this son of a bitch off the floor. And so it's all of these different dimensions that I've been doing, you know, through my career that's kind of shaped some of these spots, if you will. You know, I think it's funny because I would agree. I think for myself, the deadlift was a big thing that helped with my back. I noticed after I started focusing on strength first off and then dead lifting, like my back just got thicker and wider. And when you tell people that they're like,

but that lift doesn't contract the back as well as pull downs do. But I'm just like, I'm sorry. Well, I mean, but here again, I mean, you could create an argument for the fact that it doesn't contract it back as well,

but contract, you can contract the bicep, but when you contract the bicep, when it's attached to an 80 pound dumbbell, there's going to be more damage done to that. Even if you don't quite contract it as well at the top, you're going to get more growth moving that weight around. Now, the key to that is obviously to be able to do that without damaging yourself. So there's two sides of the equation. So it doesn't contract the back as well, okay.

But that doesn't mean that it's going to build more more tissue yeah you know what was the hardest thing transitioning from strongman and wrestling into bodybuilding you know what honestly what it was it was it was food because i had spent all of these years defining my methodology with eating and never being hungry as a huge piece of that equation. Well, son of a bitch, all of a sudden now I have to start managing my sugar addiction, managing my I'm a foodie, being hungry. Oh, fuck. Talk about Jesus Christ. I'm four.

I didn't make the switch till I was 42, 42 years old. I'm like, every time I look in the mirror, I see the fat boy, you know, because it's like that, you know, that thing that, you know, when you're hungry, your blood sugar is starting to go down. I'm getting these. I need sugar. And I'm like, I feel like I'm fucking 15 again, you know? So it was, there was a certain point to be totally honest.

I was honestly thinking, man, you know, I know what I'm doing and I'm going to get my job done, but I don't, I questioned my longevity as a bodybuilder because I thought, you know, is this great? I mean, I came into bodybuilding and did really well, really quick and that was great. I came into bodybuilding and did really well really quick. And that was great. But then I thought, okay, I'm not going to destroy my life over being an older-aged fucking bodybuilder. You know, I was 42 by the time I was 45. Well, actually, I came in real quick, turned pro, did a pro contest, placed well. So, I mean, I had a big splash. And at that point, it was kind of like, okay, now I know what I need to do to get better as a bodybuilder. And it was kind of that crossroad,

you know, where I'm kind of thinking, okay, this is what I got to do. And then I realized, okay, then I'm going to have to diet again. So I had to really kind of had to come some, some pretty, I really had to do some soul search. And I thought what really came down to was, okay, you know what? Yeah. You're, you're questioning yourself and this is good but just like everything else you've done those question marks is what drives you if you if you walk away from this you never really beat it so it basically it was really kind of cool it kind of put me back in that position where i was kind of redefining myself in terms of understanding my discipline with what i had developed my whole life with my methodology so it was a pretty it was pretty intense and it was it really helped me be a better version of me

you know you have any current injuries or anything that prevent you from doing certain i know you've had like surgeries and yeah. No, I mean, I'm pretty banged up. I'll be totally honest. You know, I mean, like, but I can still go hard and I can still lift heavy weights, but I have to cycle it now. Meaning I can go, you know, I can lift. And when I say cycle, it's sometimes it's two weeks, sometimes it's three. But what happens is, is I start to notice that my joints are just having a hard time.

And so, I mean, I can get myself. I kind of, it's like an active recovery. I mean, I still train. I mean, I love to train. You know, if anything, the discipline now for me is taking the time off because it's harder to recover. Maybe nowadays you might use more machines and do things a little differently. Maybe nowadays you might use more machines and do things a little differently. So in that phase where I'm kicking ass and I'm going hard that couple of weeks, I'm going to be doing shit that I won't do until I come back there.

So you're hitting around the head, brother. I'll be doing the heavy dumbbells, the bars, you know, all the stuff that I want to do. I love this. The roots of me. And then once I start to realize, yeah, I'm having a hard time, I back off and I don't do that stuff. Sometimes it's, you know, two weeks, sometimes it's three. If we travel enough that I have like three or four day gap without training, it's actually really helpful. You know, it drives me nuts. But I go back in the gym, I'm like, oh, come on, I feel good. You know, are you aware of how much noise you make when you lift probably not i've seen i remember seeing videos like with you like taking weight off the rack

you know like 150 pound dumbbells or 200 pound dumbbells and you're doing some uh like incline dumbbell presses with it or something and you're you pick them up and you're like and you're making all these old man noises and then you hike him up and you keep making this farting noise with your mouth is he even aware that he does this or is he just like an animal

I'll tell you I make a lot of fucking noise it's like spitting everywhere I make a lot of noise I make a lot of fucking noise. It's like spitting everywhere. I'm like, this guy's a savage. I make a lot of noise. I make a lot of smell. I mean, going back to this, this will summarize the whole thing. So Terry and I meet, and probably the first 24 hours, I said, look, let's just get this ABC of me out of the way.

I said, look, I smell. I fart a lot. I bur a lot of my weird fucking sounds and you're probably going to end up doing a lot of shit for the first time when you're with me but if you're good with that we're going to be okay but i'm in sign me up but i don't think she realized how many because what you're talking about training i just you know the crazy part is i fucking make noise everywhere you know i'm just i've used to be i think because it's just some people are very conscious of of the sounds they make i've i've never been that way you know it's always making even when i'm taking a dump you know maybe by myself i'm i was into you know

she was at the store i'm taking the stem i'm like oh come on daddy you know you know coaching yourself through it well it's just like it's just the noise is almost you know it is it's like the noise think of it like this the noise that you're hearing is what's coming out you know and i don't mean coming on my ass i'm talking about you and i'm lifting heavy weights soothing to you yeah it's it's kind of what what i'm hearing on the inside is what i'm letting go on the outside you know but you know i will say that when i was young being real vocal with my training actually for some weird way actually was very helpful to me you know like it helped you know when you're

getting fired up you know when i would get fired up, but then during the lift, I remember especially like a first heavy lift, I mean, I would get to the bottom. I would just explode. You know, it's just that it feels good. You get an opportunity to be somebody else for a couple seconds. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about it. You can yell as loud as you want.

You can let as much aggression go as you want. There's no problem, you know. I'm curious about something. A few times during the conversation you mentioned when you look in the mirror, sometimes you see the look like the young fat kid. Now, at this point in your life, do you look at that as something that is a positive thing that forces you to continue to stay in shape? Or do you think that there's somewhat of a problem there? That's a good question brother um a lot of times i mean when you ask that question i'm just like literally just thinking out loud right now i mean you could split that either way if you want to create an argument but

when you ask that of me i i really when it comes down to it i don't really think of it as good or bad you know i i think of it that this is what it is. And I found a way to harness it, you know, because a lot of times, you know, people will have something in their life that plagues them and it remains a plague. And I think one of the biggest things that people tend to miss in their lives is sometimes the things are the hardest and hurt the most are the biggest blessings. And, you know, why that's part of my story, why that's part of what's in my head, I don't know. Is it bad? You could call it good, you call it bad, but good or bad, I'm going to harness it for a way to better myself. And that's kind of what I look at.

I don't look at it, is this good or bad? I look at, okay, well, this is creating an opportunity. Where is it? How do I use it? How do I better myself? And as I get older, it's been so helpful because those challenges, I've learned to deal with them. And then I can help others go through their challenges. You know, like I have a guy that I'm coaching right now. Just use his first name. His name's Doug. He came to me. He was going through a divorce.

He was severely overweight. Blood pressure medicine. Depressant medicine. I mean, he was pretty messed up. He was really having a hard time. And so we did his program, and he physically and mentally has gone, physically pretty much crushed his journey, but mentally he still wasn't quite there.

And for myself, I understand that because it's a rhythm that you create, and that rhythm becomes normal enough that it's a battle that you know you can win. And so that's what I tell them all the time. Look, the program is over. I said, look, yes, the program is over. You've already paid me, but we're going to go. I'm going to continue to work with you until this daily battle is like a normal thing. Because the challenges that we all face daily, you know, it's like life is a war and you have to win your daily battle to even have a chance to win the war.

And so that's one of the things that I think that, that, you know, for me, you know, I have a daily battle for myself. I mean, I'll be the first one to say, man, I'm I'm fucked up. You know, we're all fucked up. You know, I mean, I deal with, you know, even in my head, you know, I have often have a hard time focusing. You know, my my train of thought will be all over the place. And all these things that are challenges. These are the things that that I that I grab a hold of that that actually drive me to move forward and be better because the things that are difficult, the things that you overcome, they're the most rewarding. And so I guess what I'm saying is to answer your question is I've taken my daily battles and I've learned to kind of manage them.

And it's really been very helpful for me to help people like Doug manage his daily battles. I mean, he's just like, my life has changed. And I said, now let's just make sure you keep it that way. You know? So I guess to answer the question,

good, bad or the otherwise, does it really matter? How do you use it? I really, I think, um, I really like how you put that because a lot of people talk about like

bodybuilders, right? People like to say, Oh, like some people like bodybuilders. Um, if they look at their physique and they're like i'm fat somebody else that's like normal would look at them be like there's no fucking way you're fat you're not fat at all right but um no seriously but then like that like people look at that and say oh that's because that bodybuilder has body dysmorphia or whatever. And technically, who knows? They might. But sometimes it's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. Is it pushing them towards a place of being healthier?

If it is, then is that a problem? You know what I mean? Well, that's the whole thing. The thing that kills me is everybody's got problems. Yeah. If you really want to break it down, we're all fucked up somehow, some way. problems yeah if you really want to break it down we're all fucked up somehow some way so why we want to point out other people's flaws and make that some sort of a practice is what okay all right yeah okay yeah call me what you will body dysmorphia call me fucking whatever does it

make a difference because i'm doing what i'm doing the best of my ability. I'm enjoying what I'm doing. And so the whole idea of titling somebody, I mean, let somebody title themselves. So there's not enough positivity pumped out of people into the universe. A thing like this, it's like a boomerang. You throw a turd into the universe. You know, take the thing like this. It's like a boomerang. You throw a turd into the boomerang, it's going to come back and pop you in the side of the face when you least expect it.

So my thing is I got to pump as much positivity into the universe, which really is through other people. Yeah. And that's where the positivity, it just swirls around you. And next thing you know, it's life becomes a much better place because one of the biggest challenges is to not accept negativity. You know, someone walks up on the street. I tell my daughters all the time, look, somebody can walk up on the street and say all sorts of terrible things to me. You know, walk up and say, you're a dickhead.

I might be. I'm not going to, I'm not throwing a turd back at you. Now I'm no better than you are. And I didn't, better is really

not the better term. It's just, I don't want to do that. You know? You know, when someone, you know, in social media,

it's great. You know, these guys will come in and they just, they're just throwing daggers. It's just eating me up, you know, and I'll just come back and I'll say, hey, sometimes I'll say it to it publicly. Like if it's a comment, I'll say, look, I'll be your punching bag if it makes you feel better. I'm good.

Punch away. And then they'll come back and say something else. And I'll say, look, I'm going to help you whether you realize it or not, you know. and I'll say, look, I'm going to help you whether you realize it or not, you know. But in the DMs or it's private or a messenger or something like that, they'll just throw some terrible thing and I'll say, hey, you know, I'm good. How are you today? And they're like, I'm good.

It's just sometimes people, they're more comfortable dishing off negativity for some reason. Why? Who cares? Just help people realize it doesn't have to be that way. You know? Yeah. I agree. Andrew, want to take us on out of here, buddy?

I will. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Thank you to everybody on the live chat. We had over 100 people the entire time. It was fantastic. Yeah. So I love the conversations that were happening in the in the chat uh please make sure you're following the podcast at mark bells power project on instagram at mb power project on tiktok and twitter a huge shout out and thank you to eat

right foods for sponsoring today's episode again that's eat r-i-t-e foods.com links down in the youtube description as well as the podcast show notes uh my instagram and twitter is at i am andrew z and the andrew z on tikt Twitter is at IamAndrewZ and TheAndrewZ on TikTok and Seema where you at? IamAndrewZ on Instagram and YouTube and SeemaYinYang on TikTok and Twitter. John where can people find all your stuff? The best way

to get in contact with me on that level I like to say that when people come and want to chat with me I'm very very active in my Instagram direct message so at the john anderson obviously my name's spelled a little funky so you have to manage that one j-o-n and anderson i'm nordic so it's a-n-d-e-r-s-e-n so at the john anderson come in say hi let's shoot the shit have some fun we gotta get john out of here because he's got to eat. He's got to poop. He's got

to pee. It's like having a baby in the office. The question I got is just in case, do you have a shower in that bathroom? We don't. You got some wet wipes? We got baby wipes. Another question is, is it a value pack?

Yeah. We're covered. And my wife's here, so I'm good. She can help. I'm at Mark's Mary Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later.