Mark Bell's Power Project - Gary Scheffler - Why MOST Weightlifting is RUINING Athletic Movement PT. 1 || MBPP Ep. 769

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Today we are talking with GOATA Co-Owner, Coach Gary Scheffler, learning more about the movement system, why our beloved squat bench and dead aren't the optimum movements for field athletes and learning if we can marry the two to create an even better system. Follow Gary on IG: https://www.instagram.com/gls_training/ Subscribe to the GLS YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgWcCDjLNyAOnuTi69Ft56A Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://boncharge.com/pages/POWERPROJECT Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off!! ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code POWERPROJECT20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #GOATA #PowerProject #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast

PropRoger family, hope you guys are doing well today. Now, on this podcast, you guys know that we've talked about protecting your sleep. It's one of the biggest pillars for your recovery, your performance, and your life. That's why we've partnered with Bonn Charge. Now, Bonn Charge is a company that makes so many different products, so check out their website. But primarily, one of the big things we want to talk about are their blue light blocking glasses. Now, there's nothing wrong with blue light. Blue light comes from the sun.

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we are barely scratching the surface. There's tons of awesome products on their website. You guys got to head over there right now. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Yeah, we're ready. All right, let's roll. Ready. So you said you've been cleaning up your diet a little bit.

You lost about 10, 12 pounds since last time you've been here. Yeah, last time I was 225. Just now in the gym i was 213 so it's been about three weeks just trying to control my portions and stuff like that like i was saying that whole like addict mentality is to to dominate everything you want it right now and kind of you know food you could do that with food. You can get all you want. It's right on every corner. For those people listening that have not seen a photo or video of Gary, Gary is not black.

He's white. He's from the islands. Yeah, there's just some audio folks right now. Dude, I got that so many times when, I don't know if it went on YouTube after or if some people went back. And I'm like, nah, I'm just a white dude from New Orleans. But I get it all the time. That accent. I answer the phone.

They're like, oh, this is Coach Gary. I'm like, yeah, I seen you on Mark Bell's podcast. I'm like, how you knew it was me? How do I know? Hey, maybe it helps, right? Maybe it's easier to get some athletes that way. It's definitely given me a, it's almost like an identity or something like that.

Like it's crazy, but. It's a distinct voice. I went to work with B.O.B., the rapper. He was having some back issues and stuff like that. So I went out to Atlanta. He saw that you're white and he's like, I'm out. Dude, he was like, where you from, man? I said, New Orleans. And he's like, no, I went out to Atlanta. He saw that you're white and he's like, I'm out. Dude, he was like, where are you from, man? I said, New Orleans.

And he's like, no, I think you are in New Orleans. That was one of the coolest dudes I ever worked with. Good, man. So you dropped some weight and you're trying to get down under 200 or so? I want to be about 200. Yeah. What you got to do? What do you think?

Just continue. It's lifestyle. Yeah. to be about 200 yeah what you got to do what do you think just continue it's lifestyle yeah well you know i've struggled with food for a long time and still do it's like every day seems to be like a battle to deal with the you know just being super hungry yeah feeling hungry but uh the way i like to put it for people is when i was really heavy when i was over 300 pounds i was hungry then and i'm hungry now so you're going to be hungry either way. Right. And it really does a commitment to losing weight and getting momentum to lose weight can be

really, really difficult, but it sounds like you're already on your way. Yeah. The consistency. And like we had talked about earlier, it's, it's a lifestyle change. It's, it's not just, you know, it's, it's, you can't just – it's the weight room too or whatever training you're doing. If you go run sprints, it's like you could run 10, but you could go there and run six. There's a mentality that's got to come along, I guess, with anything. So mentality first.

And you're exercising quite a bit now, especially. I do more, yeah. I've been doing the go-to stuff. I mean, I've got a five- and a six-year-old. And then, you know then they depend on me. So it's time to stop being what Gary wants to be and be what my family needs me to be sometimes. What are some things on the previous podcast that maybe you feel like

we didn't have an opportunity to address? Because we had a bunch of you guys on the show all at one time. Was there a couple things that maybe you're like, oh, man, looking back, I wish I would have said this. I wish I would have got an opportunity to talk about that. I don't know, man. It was two hours and 20 minutes. We got it in.

You know what I'm saying? You know, I think the biggest thing is the terminology that we use a lot of times. People's like, nah, that's not what it is. And we knew that if we was going to talk something that was different or speak on something different, then the language kind of had to be a little bit different. And that was one of the things that Ricky helped us out with a lot because me and Gilly, you know, Gilly had the concepts

and then I kind of became the horsepower behind the operation. And then, you know, Ricky comes in and his way of talking and his experience in other programs and things like that and then being a professional athlete, just, you know, he had a lingo that, you know, when you're the quarterback of an NFL team or quarterback of a major university and you walk in there, everybody's going to learn different. So when you're trying to coach up your guys in front you and stuff like that, if you have one way of communicating, it's going to learn different. So when you're trying to coach up your guys in front of you and stuff like that,

if you have one way of communicating, it's going to be a problem. And Ricky's real good at articulating the system, so he does well with it. But that was one of the things. Just the language I think caught a lot of people off guard. I identify a lot with coaches. I think you guys are amazing coaches that's why when you came here you had such an impact on me I was like

and I just when you left I was like there's something special about this program I don't know how to put it into words but something about the way these guys are showing me stuff the way you're telling me to stand the way that you're telling me to walk the way that you're mentioning how to run

and kind of flicking the foot away, going kind of heel out. I'm like, I just, I was so confused. I'm like, how come I almost felt foolish in a way? Like I've been coaching people. I've been around a long time. I haven't really heard anybody speak this way before. And then you and I were talking one day, I think on the phone or just back and forth with some voice messages. and I were talking one day, I think on the phone or just back and forth with some voice messages.

And I was like, my hips naturally want to go the other way when I push the sled. And you're like, that's because he got it backwards. And I was like, son of a bitch. What do you mean though? So when I would take a step with the sled, my big toe would kind of hit first and I would like put a cigarette out as if I was taking my heel from outside to inward with every step. And I do that if I sprint too. And probably a good reason why I blow out my hamstring if I sprint – if I try to go in like a full sprint well now I've been really working a lot on uh turning the heel outward more as I kind of bring that hip back and it's been real it's been feeling amazing I still haven't gotten myself quite to the point uh where I want to ballistically like just fucking rage and go into stuff but uh part of the reason

why I'm covering so much of this stuff and so many variations of the different movements and even some of the different principles I'm adopting is to one day to be able to show that. Like one day people are going to look at my Instagram and go, what the fuck's gotten into this guy? Yeah. So what you're seeing or what you're trying to describe

is that the human body is a pivot point energy system, okay? It has a design pattern that's made to corner around a center, just like you would see in nature everywhere else. So you would see like a sunflower or something has like this spiraling, a pine cone or whatever as it's developing. spiraling a pine cone or whatever as it's developing. So when you, you know, and not getting into the deep part of the mathematical side with the Fibonacci sequence and Gruden ratio and all of the things like that, what happens is there's an eye in the hurricane, right? And all of that, everything that's happening outside, that energy is moving around it, which creates a centrifugal force that allows it to travel through space when it's at ground contact.

So a tornado, it starts at the top, right? And it's just swirling, swirling, swirling. When it makes contact with the ground, it starts to move and becomes destructive, right? So there's a center and there's a pivot point that everything moves through. There's a center and there's a pivot point that everything moves through. Your foot, so if you back it up and you look at a baby in the crawl pattern, that pivot point is the knee whenever we start to crawl, okay? When the baby, as it starts to stand up, it starts to take away its support, right? It'll go to the wall and then it goes from the crawl pattern and it's trying to build its balance and all of that stuff.

But it's still a pivot point. The problem in the training industry is that we've treated the body as like a system of pistons where we drive force into the ground. Now, we talked about it the other day, right? Like the triple extension is fake thing. And the reason why I put that is a better way to have said it, but you can't really fit it onto the IG caption real good, is that it's incomplete. Right.

Does the body go into extension? Yes, it does. But the foot needs to come off the ground one way. It doesn't need to necessarily come. It don't have a choice. It has a choice, but one's healthy and one's not healthy. So what you was doing was you was pivoting off your big toe instead of pivoting off the third fourth and fifth your eye or your

hurricane or the way you was cornering the hip was in reverse you was going the wrong way so you get the hip problems you know and you had the hamstring and stuff like that so So we noticed that. So what GODA was was observation-based technology where we went and we looked at front and back. The guy that pulls his hamstring all the time releases his heel to the inside. The guy that is healthy releases his heel to the outside. Now, can you go find Michael Jordan releasing his heel to the inside? Absolutely. But there's a consistency in his pattern that releases to the outside.

And that's where people kind of, I think there's some confusion with what we're saying. Track and field's got a lot of soft tissue injuries. But when you break down, like Usain Bolt tearing his left hamstring, you could see, we talked about it yesterday, Usain Bolt tearing his left hamstring, you could see, we talked about it yesterday, and see where that left foot starts to duck out even more because everybody sprints the track. All sprinters train to 400 meters, all of them, for endurance purposes and all. But when you hit that curve, that foot's doing something different than what the right one's doing. So he has the right hand. Me, Carmelita Jeter had the left quad that she tore a bunch of times.

But when you would watch them run straight, one's turned out more than the other, and they were pivoting off the inside of the foot instead of off the third, fourth, and fifth. So identifying what was the safe side as opposed to, and that's why I said you go in reverse because if it's supposed to go out, then reverse would be in, right? I have a question for you about that because when I was thinking about it,

first question, the part A to that would be what would be the solutions to that? Because as you were mentioning, track athletes, they are running one way. They're turning these curves year after year, race after race, practice after practice. And I was like, wait, why don't they ever run the other way of the track? But maybe that would be too time consuming. So what would be the way to stop these types of injuries from happening? Because part of it is going the same way, turning the same corners,

and overdeveloping one side of their gate over years of time. You got to do it the other way. You have to do it the other way? Do track coaches employ that? Do you know if that's a common practice we um the ones that we have talked to have like the ones that are like how can we get better and not i know how to do this you know what i'm saying yeah yeah and and and it's it's really simple like i don't coach no track teams so when i talk to a track coach

or something like that and we talk about triple extension exercises, the track. It's like this. The whole system of track and field was kind of like the dynamic was the same everywhere. So if you're doing triple extension, you release it to the inside. You're running the curve, so you create more of a duck foot thing. So you're feeding it from two different ways. And if that's the stimulus that they're getting, but then the body breaks down on and now they're all right right side injuries don't get me wrong but um fixing it would be to go to other direction yeah take the time out if you're dealing with a high

level athlete and you're saying i don't have time for that then you shouldn't be dealing with a high level athlete makes a lot of sense one of the things things that's interesting about a lot of the stuff in the weight room, and this is where I think you guys probably received the most criticism, is I guess there's a message out there. I don't know if you said it directly or if it's just proposed with GODA that you guys don't really lift weights in a traditional sense. Like there's not really weight, there's not really like Olympic lifting and there's not really power lifting. But what I want people to envision and what people think about is

how often do you see somebody do an Olympic lift and when they're in the transition of the Olympic lift, when they are doing like a power clean, when they take the weight up and their feet leave the ground, I'd like for people to envision how the person's feet land. And almost all the time time not all the time

because there are athletes that can do it with their feet straight uh but that's when you see like an olympic level person like dimitri cloak off or somebody like that almost always the feet are kind of flopping uh outward every single time and these these positions are getting trained very often and i think my understanding of strength training in the past would be, oh, you know what? Like that's probably not that bad of an idea to train that range of motion because you do get in compromising positions in sports as well. And these are minimal loads because of the type of exercise that the person is doing. So like no harm, no foul. of the type of exercise that the person's doing. So like no harm, no foul. But you guys have,

it seemed like you guys have brought attention to a lot of things that I wasn't previously aware of. And maybe a lot of the other strength and conditioning community hasn't been aware of. Yeah. I mean, again, when you go back to the origin of a lot of things. Um, go to, from a movement standpoint, like I said, is a, is a system, right? Um, Ricky had a great podcast the other day where he talked about strength training is more isolation, right? Now there's always intention. Like we want to get stronger. We want to get, um, more explosive and things like that. But how are we doing those things? What's happened mechanically? What's happened biomechanically? And I always revert back to every system of the body. We talked about it earlier. Every system of the body is one way. Cardiovascular has a way that it works. Digestive, every system has its one way. And then, you know, depending upon who you talk to,

some people go, it would make sense if we moved one way because we all basically anatomically the same other than like some femoral lymphs and things like that. But if the ball and sockets and the hinges and everything's decompressed, then the movement pattern should be able to be consistent across the board too. But like you just said, some of the movement gets, for lack of better words, bastardized in the weight room. And then when you go and you take those movement patterns and you apply it to a sport where it's apex predator, and I'm an NFL linebacker, and I'm 6'5", 255 pounds, and I got a dude coming through the hole that's 215. If my hips and all are not working the proper way and things like that, that strength goes out the window because it becomes a leverage game. It becomes, one, your health and all of that stuff.

Like just the way you move could cause a lot of injuries, you know, like a hamstring pull or something like that. So it's controlled in the weight room, but on the field, the bullets are flying and everything's going everywhere. So if that movement pattern that you've been working in the weight room, but on the field, the bullets are flying and everything's going everywhere. So if that movement pattern that you've been working in the weight room is not conducive to the football field, then you're going to see the injury happen. And something that I think is really, because we were just talking about this the other day, and I think we talked about it a bit with Jake, is when you do look at, let's say,

a college strength room. And even when I think about when I was at Sac State and my college strength coach was working with all of us, there's all these guys doing these different movements, um, squatting and doing certain types of deadlifts, et cetera. And they, it's, it's hard for some coaches. It depends on who the coach is to watch everybody, make sure everybody's doing the right thing, moving the right way. And if you're doing something like a squat where you're getting all this spinal loading, but some guys are squatting out here, toes pointed out, some guys are squatting here. Some guys aren't even doing the basic thing of, let's say, grabbing the ground and creating a bit of an arch. Most guys aren't doing that.

And they're just cementing these things. They might be able to pack some muscle on, but they're also, like you mentioned, reinforcing bad mechanics with movements that can cause a lot of injury when done incorrectly. So, you know, one thing that I, you know, I was, I was thinking about over time too, was like, you know, football, basketball, baseball, sports is very different from powerlifting and bodybuilding. Like, yeah, you're right. With those sports, powerlifting, bodybuilding, you do have to isolate some of these movements. You do have to work that.

But in sport, there are a lot of other ways to build up muscle over time than doing a lot of these conventional movements that don't necessarily tie into what the athlete will be performing. Yeah, I mean, I agree. conventional movements that don't necessarily tie into what the athlete will be performing. Yeah, I mean, I agree. It's really why Gota even exists. When you go into, you say in the college weight room, imagine what, I mean, they got middle school weight rooms now. The middle school strength coach is not the guy that's training the NFL teams. You know what I'm saying? The guy at the top is going to be the best.

But what happens is a lot of stuff, I think, with the lifts, too, gets lost in translation along the way. So from a lifting perspective, you could have this great powerlifting coach. Now, I'm not saying that powerlifting belongs in football. What I'm saying is in line with what you're saying is if somebody at the highest level teaches somebody that's an understudy and then he passes it down to the guy that's below him, when it gets to middle school, it's anything, right? Like I could tell you a sentence and you could tell it to him.

By the time he gets to Andrew, it's going to be different. So a lot of that stuff gets lost along the way, the detail and things like that. So it's not getting done right, like in defense of the powerlifting, Olympic lifting, and stuff like that. The best coaches are going to be with the better teams. They're going to be at the highest levels. But we start weightlifting when we're 13, some 12. Do you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And then you get to be 29, and you're soft tissue, and your body's breaking down. But we start weightlifting when we're 13, some 12. Do you know what I'm saying?

And then you get to be 29 and you're soft tissue and your body's breaking down. So much of what you guys do is about the – from my perspective, it's about like – I know you talk a lot about the foot, but a lot of it has to be centralized around the hip, right? So this kind of flicking of the foot outward, the hip, right? So this kind of flicking of the foot outward, is it fair to say that that's more of a byproduct of being able to like in a sprint, being able to drive your knee kind of forward and inward and having like some internal rotation of the hips? Because as I've been practicing this, for me being a person that kind of has my feet out a little bit more, my left hip is a little compromised, had some issues with it over the years. I've had to really practice, you know, getting my feet to be more straight, right? But then on top of that, I was like, oh, I'm kind of just cheating

because I'm swinging my foot into this like straight pattern. And I was like, I need to get my hip to go this way and I needed to like rotate it so is that kind of some of the main principle behind what you guys are doing is to be able to have the athlete be able to drive the hip forward in explosive movements well I think what happens and especially in your case is everything that you've done has dictated your hips in other words from the foot level so if it starts at the bottom and it works its way up, if I'm duck-footed and I let my ankles collapse in the whole time, it's going to dictate the chain at the top.

If I'm finishing every exercise in a thrust position, even a bench press sometimes, you'll see a lot of thrust in that bench press. Well, that fascia and muscle and all of that becomes shortened or lengthened or whatever it may be. And then when you go try to sprint, you're going to sprint the same way, whatever you most consistent with, right? Like everything's a neurological rep. So if you go on and everything's duck-footed, then duck-footed is going to come out in your run. Now, the reason why you can't do it is because your body don't know nothing else.

Again, go back to the analogy that the nervous system is a five-year-old. Whatever we do in front of it, it's going to react to. You don't teach a five-year-old to say fuck, and he's going to say it if you say it right. That's right. But it's the same thing with the human body. Like it's malleable, right? So we could change it. We can make it adapt. I'm from New Orleans.

That's obvious, I guess. If I move to Alaska, I'm going to struggle for the first year that I'm out there with adapting to the change. But once my nervous system gets used to the environment that it's in, then it's going to be easier for me. So when we take an athlete that's transitioning or been doing, say a pro athlete, right? That's been, say started lifting at 12. Well, now he's 25. So 13 years he's been doing deadlifts. That's going to have an effect on the body. So when we go back, we want to take all of the deadlifting away and give him back what he lost so that the repetitiveness has to be that.

And, I mean, those guys still are probably going to go back and do some deadlifting, but now we've given them another option to help combat that uh irregular movement let's say or whatever so this is the thing that i think a lot of people would ask because classically when it comes to strength training and sport the back squat is something that all athletes just do the deadlift is something that you see just all athletes do so when you you talk about taking that away, people are going to be like, no, I want my deadlift and squat. But can you tell us and talk to us about what patterns are being formed, especially when an athlete does these movements irresponsibly? What are the bad patterns that you, as a go-to coach, you guys are now having to work out of that athlete and implement other patterns yeah most of them come in uh what we call columns is so you have a left and a right column right

straight feet inside ankle bone high medial malleolus high you want to have an arch we could develop an arch um that you want the knees to be level hips to be level shoulders to be level everything up the chains as symmetrical as possible. That would be columns. The second, the knees are pre-movement fundamentals. So before you would even take a step. We see that changed all the time because there's a lot of things that go into that. We sit.

We kind of slouch. We duck-footed in our sitting. We relax. You drive. Everybody puts the right foot on the gas pedal. They turn it out. So you see the right foot turn out a lot like in general population we'll see that right foot out more than what the left foot is a lot of times um the other thing is is we see from especially with the deadlift or um any kind of heavy squat or something a lot of people become what's called

anterior chain dominant or front chain we call it front chain dominant because a lot of the stuff we kind of made simpler terms because we are dealing with a large population of middle school to college athletes that really don't give a shit about anterior and posterior and stuff like that. They just want you to take care of them. You know what I'm saying? But when you lose the ability to be back chain dominant you lose your hips right so you can't corner that hip if that hip socket's locked because you're always in a thrust or pelvic tuck position can you explain cornering the hip real quick okay so

cornering cornering is the what we would consider the the movement of the winds of the hurricane going around the eye right so it's it it kind of comes around the corner like that. So when we would see the hip open, we would see the hip open and set. That would set the foot straight. Everything's decompressed. The knee sets out. That's your bow. Okay?

So we bow, and then we load the bow, and then the bow releases, and then we see the corner happen. The hip comes, the hip opens, and then as it releases and then we see the corner happen the hip comes the hip opens and then as it releases it corners around if you've been in a thrust position and your hamstrings are shortened and all of that you can't get that heel to whip away like you're saying the heel away is actually a side effect of the the closing of the hip or the cornering of the hip okay it should just move away from that that was my point is that it's naturally going to happen because the way that your hips are programmed,

like the way that you guys are programming your hips to move. Correct, yeah. And this is the thing too is if you look at Gota, yeah, that's – So like his left foot right there is what you were talking about. Christian Jones, that kid right there, he was a freshman at the time. He's 6'3", 215, 4.2 GPA. His dad played defensive tackle at Nebraska. He's already got about eight Division I offers.

He's going to be a sophomore or whatever. He came to me. His dad's a chiropractor, and his dad came to us, and he's like, man, my son's got some back and some knee pain and stuff that I don't know what to do with him. I heard about y'all. One of his best friends actually was Ricky's center, I think, one year at one of the teams he was with or whatever.

And I worked with the kid virtually, knee pain, hip pain, gone. And, I mean, he's a monster. He's mean too. What are some examples of bows and corners? So here's your bow right here. That's your bow. See the ankle bone climbs high and then the heel kind of whips away

as he comes off the ground. This is a big change of direction right there. So is this. Inside ankle bone high behavior is when the foot hits the ground, the medial malleolus climbs up instead of collapsing in. So do you have... There, this is

a good one. See the big bow being set? Nice. Yeah, Randy Moss. Then you see the heel flip away. Randy Moss really drove his knee towards his dick when he ran straight, almost like his knees are tied together. Look at that. That's fucking crazy.

Well, so when we look at the math side of it is we travel through space in a 45. So if you look at it from 45 and then you take 22.5, that's where RICO 225, all our website and stuff like that, that comes from, everything goes that way. So if I'm landing on my right leg, both knees and my chest should be ideally the best in the world would be 22.5 degrees open, and then it whips 45 degrees to the other side. Centrifugal force for the baby was being created at the knee.

Now when we stand up, it's being created at the foot level. So it's just torque. What was that one with the high-level stuff? I think there's a – I don't know if it's on that post or whatever. Which one? The one – go to – it's fake. Coach, let me know if you think this is right. Oh, I know what you're talking about.

There you go. There's a fake one right there. No, no, no, no. Not triple – the one that just says it's fake. It was a little more recent than that. It's still fake. Oh, it's still fake. Yeah, well, I did a whole little series on it.

Yeah, we shared it. Go over there. There you go. All right, so look, you could see a lot of it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you pause it right there, so you see that's triple extension, right? Ankle, knee, and hip. Got it.

Now, when we look, this is a high-level kid. This is another kid with an awful before. See the heel flip away? When that energy moves away, you see the knee go out on the indigenous guy. His knee goes in. That's the cornering of the hip. The baby does it in a crawl pattern. This is a baby one day old in water.

That's amazing. It's cornering its hip. There's a natural in a pattern that we have changed. Let's get that baby on the podcast. Look him up. I don't know how old he is. He's hard to reach. He might be that five-year-old saying, fuck some wins.

Most likely. Were we about to go over this real quick? No, I just was showing how the exercise doesn't really, it's not complete. In other words, which way should the foot come off the ground? One side's a hamstring injury over time. It's death by a thousand reps, right? Like you're not going to go pull your hamstring on the first time that you make a, but I mean, the body's resilient. Like it's a, it's a special thing. Like, you know, dealing with sickness and

things like that. And then, you know, repetitive stress injuries come because you did something repetitive that created a repetitive stress injury that you didn't change. Making that muscle stronger ain't going to make it not pull. Yeah, repetitive. It's going to make it stronger. And a repetitive stress injury, like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense, right? Like, if you're moving well, then, like, what? You wouldn't.

Then there wouldn't be, like, a compromise. They got a video of Randy Moss because I've been training his son a little bit um uh thaddeus moss he's a tight end with the bengals and um i broke down randy's stuff for him and he sent it to him or whatever and he was like yeah well i ran track and i'm like yeah you play basketball you ran track you played football probably never really had an off season in the weight room right you know what i'm saying Where he went in there and did a lot of these different things. Then he's got a video of him that's walking around on the field and everybody's in the stretch and everybody's out. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's talking shit.

And he's like, Randy Moss don't stretch. I came out ready. Oh, I've seen that. I'm ready. He showed that to me. I'm ready. 84 don't stretch on game day and all of this stuff like that. And it's like, I mean, you know, Dion was saying.

He was the best. When he came into the league, when he was a rookie, they asked him, like, what do you think you're going to do? And rookies are always like, oh, you know, I was going to learn from the other guys and the veteran. He goes, I'm going to come in this league and I'm going to tear this league up. And he fucking did. And he had a bullseye on his back, too, because all the veterans were like,

fuck that, he's not going to be able to do that that and he scored like 19 touchdowns that yeah smoked everybody yeah jamal had that mentality too when he came into the league jamal chase and he was like i'm gonna set records and he did it can i ask you something else when it comes to because when you were you took andrew and i through a workout because i wanted to be able to try to understand exactly what's going on here. I wasn't here for the last podcast because I had COVID. And, you know, one thing that I was, as you were taking me through, I'm like, okay, this, this, a lot of this stuff makes sense in terms of ingraining some of these patterns. And one thing that I was like, okay, I can see where doing like a typical lunge or something like that, keeping the heel on the ground. And if you're an athlete and you're trying to drill in certain type of movements, this might not be beneficial.

But then I was like, OK, what are the concepts within the feet? First, why are things where like you're lunging and both your like your heels are on the ground or you're doing a squat and your heels are on the ground? Why is that bad? First off or not ideal? But secondly, what concept in the foot and ankle can we use so that if somebody does want to do certain movements, they could literally make it into a go to type pattern with that movement? So you would have to honor the concepts, right? So we talked about the design of the foot and ankle complex. Now, some doctor, some guy that studied for eight years is going to sit there and go, he's full of shit. But the foot is a half dome, right? Like Ricky last year did a deep

dive on a foot and ankle complex. And we've been really looking at it like some Achilles stuff and just looking at things differently as Achilles stuff and just looking at things differently as opposed to what we was able to identify in a movement pattern. So the foot being a platform, right, for the body is a half dome structure. If you take from the second toe and draw a line straight into the body, it's going to hit the shin. That means that on the inside of the second toe, there's nothing there.

There should be an arch, which would be half of a dome shape, right? So the meat of the foot is all four through five. Now, if we know that sports and movement is safer on more of the balls of the feet instead of the heel because i don't think anywhere else in the world somebody would tell you to heel strike right i just don't think that that there's no coach in the world i think everything i think we all agree on that right runners don't give a fuck though but i mean i agree with you yeah right like and the thing is is the guy that runs probably go sit at a desk so he's kind of got these other variables that's

working against him but But that half dome structure where the tailless plugs in has to be decompressed. And when we say that the foot and ankle, it behaves more like a ball and socket technology. If that tailless and the tip fib sit on top of it and everything's decompressed and it has the proper space, it has the ability to behave like a ball and socket. Once we take that heel and put it, so we don't want to load anything behind a cuboid bone, like anything behind there where the heel's in the ground and we just driving into that heel is going to compress that system. Okay. So if that system's compressed and it loses its ability to

swivel, you can't set a bow. So if you can't set a bow, you can't corner either. So now what happens is, is we go into the weight room and we overload the heel too much, right? Like we talked about with the sandals and stuff. We compress the system. And then we go to track practice and it's linear-based concepts. And it's like the more force we drive into the ground, the faster we're going to be. It's like the more force we drive into the ground, the faster we're going to be. Is it that we need to load more force or drive it into the ground?

Because, I mean, I would say theoretically if you drop a bowling ball, it should bounce up to the sky then. I mean, I know the weight and the density, but I'm saying like, you know, there's a complexity of the foot that's bouncy. Remember when we was working out earlier and I'm saying, like, you know, there's a complexity of the foot that's bouncy. Remember when we was working out earlier and I was like, get your heel out the ground, get on the outside parts of your foot, and you kind of could be bouncy. Well, that's going to create better reaction than being on the heels. It's going to create better change of direction.

So if I go and I train my athlete to heels down and then I get him to go go do something on the field that's balls of the feet. At max, no drive, he's putting the heel in the ground on a compressed system, on a compressed foot and ankle, and it can't move. It's stuck. So then going back again, look at the Achilles. It attaches to the heel. It runs up into the calf. That Achilles is threaded like it's not a straight line. It's coiled like it's wrapped, and it connects that way.

So when you take the rope of a ship, like I use that terminology a lot, and you take and unwind it, it loses its integrity. Well, when you go inside ankle bone low, the Achilles is getting a curve in it every time, and you're ruining the integrity of it. So you'll see these guys go, and they put a false step in their game or something like that. And their heel goes to the ground when they're trying to be explosive. Then you see the Achilles pop.

But again, it's a death by a thousand reps, right? Yeah. It's not going to be the first one. And it's very rare to see a knee injury. I maybe think that you guys had a challenge out for a while for people to show you an example of somebody with the inside ankle bone being high and having a non-contact knee injury, right? Yeah. I've still got it. I'll give $1,000 to whatever charity you want.

Yeah. Find me inside ankle bone high, non-contact catastrophic injury. Go find one. But this is the thing, too. And you were mentioning when Jake was on the podcast. But this is a thing too. And you were mentioning when Jake was on the podcast. I don't want to repeat here, but when you think of when some people do squats that are really, really heavy, even athletes.

And let's say they're working with a load that they maybe shouldn't be working to and they start to fail. Well, with the terminology that we're going with, the inside ankle bone goes low, the knees come in. And when they're coming up, they go there. And then they swivel back out when they get to a failure that's not pointing. And within sport, you're going to just rip your shit up if that happens. Yeah. So it's just a pattern. You got the Jameis Williams ACL? You sent that to me, right? That was the Alabama.

No, I don't have it. I didn't send you that one. But what happens is. Oh, the Alabama kid. Yeah, the Alabama kid. Yeah, that ankle gets stuck, right? So the shin gets stuck once that system's compressed. When you pressurize what we would say pressurize a column or load one side, for lack of better words, the hip is going to open.

It's not going to close in loading. It's not natural. You're going to open the hips. going to open the hips. Now, if that ankle stuck in that knees, you get outside of your frame, like outside of your columns where you step wide, shin goes down and then it gets stuck in the load goes into that hip. The femur is going to open shin stuck. Yeah. The ACL is this little bitty piece of tissue sitting in there and it's like tearing a piece of paper. And that's what happens now. Somebody might say it's abduction strength or adductor strength, whatever. It's not a strength thing. It's a patterning that happens. We got videos

of Randy Moss where he gets way outside of his columns the same way. He gets turned around. He gets twisted around. He catches balls, but he strikes the ground. He stays out the heel. He goes inside ankle bone high, sets a bow, and just keeps going this kid goes duck footed ankle collapses shin gets stuck shreds the knee so and that's what that's really the magic behind go to was is that we didn't we know the acl tear is bad we know that randy moss didn't tear his and he moved good he had a hamstring pull one year i think in camp and he even says he, like, went into there. There it is right there. Oh, shit.

Yeah, I remember this. See, when you go, when we get that front view of it. No. It keeps going. So if you could stop it where his foot's hitting the ground. I hate seeing people get hurt. Yeah, and we don't ever want to see that either but unfortunately it's how we had to bring attention to it let me slow it down

is that the yeah yeah i want to see the front view that is all right so stop right there so right now what's happening and if you really pay close attention is his his his heel goes into the ground the ankle drops it gets stuck it don't have the ability to swivel no more, and he pressurizes that hip. He loads that column. What's going to happen is his stripe on his pants is going to disappear, and that's the hip opening, the stripe on the side of the pants. See it disappear, and then the tip pops out the bottom.

Reverse it a little bit. So watch whenever you'll see it stick. You'll see the stripe. See the stripe. And then the stripe, as he goes a little bit further, that stripe's going to disappear. Boom, it's gone. So what it is is the shin's stuck in the ground.

And, you know, what a coach will say about something like this is like, oh, this is a championship game. Yeah. You know, this is high stakes. Like a lot of forces are going to be produced. So people just think that's natural. No. Well, they blame it on the turf, right?

I got a post somewhere that's on there that I got the same exact ACL tear on a basketball court. I got the same exact tear on a baseball diamond in dirt. Like it's not. It's not. It's the mechanism of injury that is embedded into the nervous system and eventually it's going to give. This is why I'm obsessed with what you guys do. And this is why I'm like searching for more answers and why I'm open to looking at FP, looking at what you guys do, and looking at the whole scope of things because it challenges all the stuff I ever learned.

I was always like – if somebody wanted to come in here, let's say, five years ago, and they wanted to bring their local high school football team in here, I'd be like, this is going to be awesome. I'm going to turn these kids into monsters, and I would utilize what I knew at the time. But a lot of this stuff is really uh challenging me to kind of to rethink and reconsider and we know like we know for a fact anyone that's played a sport knows that there's the people that can lift and there's the people that can play every once in a while those two things coincide but a lot of times they don't and simo's pointing out the one of his best uh one of the best soccer players he knew was a guy who could just fucking run circles around everybody. And I don't think he trained, right?

No, he did a little bit of lifting. His name is Ernesto Carranza. He was number 10 over at SAC. But you look at his upper body, it didn't look like he lifted anything. Look at his lower body. He had some meat on his legs. He was a soccer player. But he was the best guy on the field in almost every fucking game like and and he

wasn't highly muscled i know it's specific for specific soccer but like in a lot of sports it's similar like it's not always the most jacked player on the court or on the field that is the best player it's the people who move the best and what you guys are doing is you're not i think there's a misconception that you're not like lifting. So then people are like, well, what are they doing in the gym? We got a strength component. Y'all felt it a little bit. Oh yeah, absolutely. I did. No, it's hard. And when you do the sled and when you're trying to, uh, rotate your hips the right way, I mean, your butt goes on fire right away. I mean, there's still tons of muscle tension. It's just, we don't have like a measurable for like, you know, going on the BOSU ball and then pushing against the band. It's just, we don't have like a measurable for like, you know, going on the

BOSU ball and then pushing against the band. It's not 405 and squat. So if, if, you know, if someone, if, if you drop off your son to go work out with the coach and you say, Hey, you know, what'd you guys do? Did you squat? Did you bench? And they're like, well, I want this ball. And then the guy had me balanced this way. Cause he's like trying to get me in these better positions with my hips. I think a lot of parents would be like upset and they would be like what what are you doing that that um i still get like i said i got these dads that come to me and they like yeah he needs core strength and he needs to do this i'm like what you even coming here for like if you know all this shit then just do it you know what i'm saying but but when we get and what we've done is is in out locally we've kind of gotten we've got our trusted people the first kid that he showed

up in that um that uh the triple extension is fake thing when i did that i used a defensive tackle that i've been having for about two years now his name's nigel marshall they call him animal he's this laid-back kind of nonchalant kid, and then when he's on the football field, it's like he's got this alter ego. Well, he's in the seventh grade. He's the one that, I didn't tell you this, but I told you all yesterday, he went to the combine. He's in the seventh grade.

He goes to this combine. They put 85 pounds on the bar. He's never benched before. We do the Henny press. We do the catwalks and things like that, and he goes and he hits 85 pounds 54 times, He's never benched before. We do the Henny press. We do the catwalks and things like that. And he goes and he hits 85 pounds 54 times. And he's never bench pressed before.

It's just what he does. So when I showed him, like, barreling over people is when I put that thing on there, that triple extension's fake because he never hip thrusted one time. His hips never went in the extension. and he just managed everybody, upper body, keeping the butt back, loading the glutes and stuff like that. But we get we have those loyal people

that's with us and then the other side of it is we got people that know what we do, they don't train with us and then they go get hurt. Well then when they come in, they got to see our physical therapist because there's a Miss Lynn Grimm. She handles like anybody that's coming off the table. We could take somebody straight off the table now because we have the medical professional in our

facility, but she's a go to coach. So the goal is to get you from the table, get you built back up to how you should, but to do it inside of the go to math so that we're not taking somebody that went through six months of physical therapy. And then we got to go to six months of recoding the athlete so they don't take the ACL again. We could do it all at once. And we've done it with Irv Smith from the Vikings. He was a guy that spent a little time with us a while back, but never really kind of dove in, dove in.

Now he's dove in all in now he's dove in um all the way but um so when somebody comes in on that therapy side they've been hurt so the parents knows they've been hurt and then when they come in it don't matter what you do with them at that point as long as you get the result then it's cool and then when word spreads they like you know everybody that calls like hey man i heard y'all doing great things over there i'm like listen if you're looking for the traditional stuff for your kid i almost like got a disclaimer up front like like hey we're not like, listen, if you're looking for the traditional stuff for your kid, I almost like got a disclaimer up front. Like, hey, we're not going to do that stuff. If you're looking to put a bar on his back,

I got five guys in the area that will do a great job with it. But it's not what I do. I stay in my lane. Why you, coach? Like how did you start to figure out some of this stuff? I think maybe the strength coaches, like we're looking at a guy from the University of Alabama that blew out his knee. We're looking at some professional athletes that have strength coaches that went to school for this stuff. Like I think maybe that might be something that people are thinking is like, where's your PhD?

Like where's your background? How did you start to land on this stuff? Did you used to train people conventionally? And did you have poor results or something? Like, what happened? No, we didn't have poor results. I mean, so one of the big things that kind of was a turning point for me was with Jamal Chase. So I had Jamal from the eighth grade.

And we did a lot of the traditional stuff. We did all of the you know the lifts and the power lift i had a power lifting coach an olympic lift i had everybody um what at the time would be called like a functional movement coach or something like that but it's more like strength based or whatever um and gilly came into the picture about 2015 and you know kind of gilly kind of told his story or whatever about all of the back trouble and stuff so gilly had some concepts that was like gilly gave me and ricky an outline is what he did if this is what the future of training needs to be go fill in the

blanks go fill out the paragraphs and and finish the story and And that's what we've done is basically just, I mean, like I said, I got 24,000 entries in my iPad, 9,000 of them's videos. It has taken a long time to build that. So it took a lot of time, and I had to develop a belief system. Jamal came down with a ball his senior year and had a patella issue. At that point, I was was like this could have been real bad and gilly had told me he was a high risk of injury so when jamal when you know at that point i had to i had to sit back look in the mirror and say am i gonna continue down the path i'm on

because it's okay for jamal to get hurt because it's part of sports, right? That was the mentality that removed the accountability. I didn't have to be accountable because it was easy to go with the pack because that's what the pack says. That's what most of the strength and conditioning coaches around the world are going to say is that, man, this is sports. Like, you got to be tough. You're going to have injury and blah, blah, blah, which has a level of truth to it.

But I can't let that be the scapegoat when my top guy gets hurt and nobody put their hands on him. You know what I'm saying? So I had to look in the mirror. Once that happened is when I went and bought an iPad. And I went and I started scraping video. I started looking at the injury. And I looked at the injury in comparison to what I was doing in the gym,

and then that's when it started to kind of unfold right before my eyes. And then, you know, Gilly was guiding me through a lot of that stuff. And then when Ricky came in and Ricky had been looking like he wanted to know, hey, listen, I've done every program out there. I've done every movement program out there. And none of them helped me throw a football better. Nothing did. Now he could throw. He could throw like he threw back in high school or whatever. And he went to everybody.

His dad, you know, they're not probably wealthy, but they got a little money. So he was able to give him the resources that he needed to go see this quote, to go work with a Tom Martini, like Tom Brady's quarterback coach, people like that. You know what I'm saying? So he was given all of the resources. But he's like, man, we in Iowa. He's like, I had shoulder surgery one day, and I'm doing single-arm snatches the next day with my arm in a sling,

on the other arm, naturally. But he's like, you know, that was like other arm naturally but but he's like you know that's was that like you eat iron like that's what you do you go in these these high level programs at the and and that's what they do and then you know he wanted to know none of it made him a better quarterback so why me why me i don't know god You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, you know, spiritually, I had a lot of things happen in my life that I got to step back and say, why did this get presented to me? The other part of it, too, is it's like most of the people laughed at Gilly. So we was, then when I got on board, we got laughed at a lot. So it kind of conditioned us to be dicks a little bit which i mean now we kind of

get in a way you know i'm trying not to be that guy no more but one of my last posts was because can't help yourself the other one that that i put it's fake or whatever i use the guy lifting the guy doing the cleans in there that's a whole nother thing they got a medical facility was it hard for you to get rid of certain exercises where you're like, this can't be? Well, that was a tough one because, I mean, it took me until probably about a year when Ricky was in. Ricky was like, dude, you keep battling this deadlift thing. Just fucking stop deadlifting. Stop thrusting the hips forward. And I'm like, because what would happen is he knew how hard I was working.

And he's like, dude, addition by subtraction. Let's go. Get that shit out of there and let's see if we can get more inside of Cabona working. And he's like, dude, addition by subtraction. Let's go. Get that shit out of there and let's see if we can get more inside of Cabona Eye. And it worked. Now, I mean, it's, you know, the biggest obstacle that we probably have is that every kid that walks into every weight. I mean, I still got kids now that they go to an Olympic lifting coach because when they get to college, they don't want to be shit in the weight room. You know, and they could to college, they don't want to be shit in the weight room, you know, and they could be great, great players.

I had a kid from the University of Texas, an outside linebacker. He gets up there. He's a guaranteed red shirt. Week four, he's starting. You know what I'm saying? Because people in front of him get hurt. He's just the kid that I showed you with the straight feet in that picture or whatever, the big kid.

He goes up there, and then he comes back, and he's like's like well i didn't hit all the marks in the weight room so he went he went in his off season this year and when he was home he was working with a coach that was training olympic lifting and i'm like do you understand that the now this kid had a uh a knee injury that's how i got him his sophomore year and And I was like, do you do realize that the reason why you got on the field was because you're an elite mover? Not because you clean the most in the weight room. Because if that's what

kept you healthy, Saquon Barkley would be a pillar of health. And you go look at him catch that DB, he caught it the same way that he catches that lift. Like what you said, feet open, knee collapse. So that's his innate pattern now.

He's going to struggle. Yeah. You know, this stuff is really – the go-to stuff is really cool because when I'm – I understand an athlete comes to you, high school athlete, college athlete, comes into a gym. They're not like a lot of us here or they're not like a lot of listeners of the podcast who hear a lot of different types of strength philosophies. And then everyone's doing their best to try to parse out and make something for themselves that works for them but also allows them to move forward in the most beneficial way for themselves. Cause I think about this, a kid comes in and they needs to get from point A to point B,

get on the college team, get to the pro level. This kid isn't good. Like we're not going to be trying to throw a bunch of different things at this kid. Like you're not going to try to throw a bunch of kettlebell stuff, barbell stuff, whatever like we do here.

Not going to do that. You're going to be stuff, barbell stuff, whatever, like we do here. You're not going to do that. You're going to be like, this is a system that you need to do. Like you need to stick to this because when there's too many inputs, it's too confusing and it's not beneficial for the athlete. So I get why Gota or some of these other movement stuff can be beneficial because it puts them into a system of movement and it can help get rid of bad movement patterns that they had in the past. I guess my, you know, my personal bias comes in with quite a few things because we've heard so much. You know, we hear we hear a lot so that we hear certain things we agree with. We hear certain things we disagree with. But like with a lot of the go toto stuff, actually everything's pretty great.

But there's so many things where it's like how can we now apply these things to all these other movements and maybe just get rid of certain movements too? Because, for example, barbell back squats and deadlifts. I haven't done that in a very long time. My body's feeling the best it ever has. I'm moving the best I ever have and I haven't touched any of those movements. I still use load, but I haven't touched that. And another thing that I wanted to mention, which was pretty interesting. I know that there are things that you guys disagree with as far as like Ben Patrick and there are things that within that system that aren't ideal. But an interesting thing with him too is when he came in he doesn't

deadlift he doesn't he came in and he started doing deadlift work deadlift at 485 and it was pretty easy but he doesn't do that usually within he still had the strength to do it that and that i think was something that is is is a cool through line you don't have to do these movements to be strong right a lot of athletes look at that they're like i want to deadlift 500 or 600 pounds and when i say athletes i mean field athletes footballers sport athletes i'm talking about that not powerlifters locomotive athletes locomotive athletes you don't need to do these movements to actually have the strength to do these movements you can do all the stuff that you guys are showing you can do a lot you can do that stuff because you

took us through a workout andrew and i was like wow this stuff with load can actually be progressed that athlete could probably get behind a deadlift bar and deadlift 500 pounds without touching it i'm telling you right now like first off let me say this i watched some of the podcasts with ben patrick super nice guys great guy like I don't want this stuff don't really necessarily have to be personal. It may be just a disagreement. The difference between our program and everybody else's is that we studied an elder

community, meaning we looked at the 100-year-old tribesman. We looked at the 104-year-old Ida Keeling that could still go run 100 meters, and she's sat in a bow. She's cornering, and she's in her back chain. Who is that, by the way? You mentioned her yesterday.

I've never heard of her. Yeah, go Google her. Ida Keeling? She goes to the Penn Relays. Well, she's dead now. She died at 105, I think. Yeah, we brought her up before. I think we showed some videos of you.

Ida Keeling. But maybe we should have mentioned this in the beginning, but GODA stands for Greatest of All Time Action. Yeah, it's Greatest of All Time Actions, and then people always kind of think that you guys are only pointing to the best athletes. Right. And you're not. You're pointing to the best movement, period.

And that's the end goal, right, is to get you to move and be the best mover possibly because we've seen it at the elderly level. Yeah. Right, of the person that can run down the track and not hurt. at the elderly level. Yeah. Right? Of the person that could run down the track and not hurt. Whereas, like, if you go and you do some of these other programs.

Yeah. Yeah, there she goes. Fuck yeah. She's 100 and something there, yeah? She's 104, yeah. Jesus, man. See her heel flipping away? Yeah. That's great.

And then they're going to show a side view of her, and she's going to be all in her back chain. She's got this little thing she does in rhythm with her arms where it puts her head over foot. Somewhere in there she was from the side. And I think that's like her granddaughter or something like that. But it's a wonderful story. And we used her with some stuff.

But she was a pillar of health. You know what I'm saying? Like, there you go. There's a side view of her now. At least she has. See how she got her butt back there? And she's kind of just, look, she's punching her way down the track. She's 105.

104 right there, yeah. Another thing, you know, Mark, you actually mentioned this, and Gary, you're mentioning this with the way we were standing. Like, Mark, you always bring up John Cena. And the reason why I'm mentioning John Cena is because, like, I've never met the guy. But even though he's jacked and he's huge and he lifts a lot of weight, he also was an individual who actually was an athlete.

The things he did in the ring were extremely athletic. He's jumping, he's running, he's doing a lot of athletic stuff. And when you mention in terms of the way he walks, it's actually a lot like what Gary talks about, if you can explain that. Yeah, he has kind of a forward. Explain it for me. He has kind of a forward. Explain it for me. He has kind of a forward. Actually.

Yeah, you set him up just right. But, yeah, he kind of has a forward lean. His hips are back. And I think you've mentioned this before. I think it's hips behind the ribs, right? Yeah, hips drive the chest. Hips drive the chest. And so John kind of walks that way.

He's got this kind of like forward lean. He's not rounded over um his uh his hips are tilted back a little bit and he's kind of on his toes and kind of pigeon-toed a little bit just naturally that way i'd like to know if he's been hurt or not i mean he gets oh he's been hurt a ton yeah yeah was it was it from the wrestling side of it or was it from yeah no it's, it was from. He's a jack dude too. Yeah, no, he's like, yeah. You said something earlier too about the strength component or whatever. So I had an eighth grader that went to my high school and he trained with us.

He had a lot of hamstring issues dealing with the guy that he was working with before. So his dad brought him to us, never had a hamstring, no trouble again. So he goes into the high school weight room his eighth grade year, and he's in the eighth grade now. So they do this thing where they try to see, they're trying to build on how many times you can do 225 in a squat, which for an eighth grader, I think it's kind of a high standard. That's a lot. But he squatted 225 16 times. Wow so he his the coach calls me he's like

dude what are y'all doing y'all don't squat right and i'm like no and he goes what you think's gonna happen to him when he starts squatting in our program i said you mean to tell me that you not asking me what i did with him you telling me how your program's going to help him when he walked in there and outlifted the seniors that are in your program for five years and he's 13? Yeah. Like, come on, you should be asking me what I'm doing, right? And that's not necessarily what happens. It's everybody gets entrenched in what they're doing and what they think works. The other side of it is every coach and every trainer that I ever talk to, The other side of it is every coach and every trainer that I ever talk to, nobody ever has non-contact catastrophic injuries.

None of them. I'm like, well, how is there a 500% increase in adolescent injury? Like how's the numbers going up? But nobody has them. It's like there's this lack of accountability, and nobody wants to really be truthful with themselves about what's really happening out there. That's where the passion and stuff, I think, a lot of that comes from. Because we don't go home with the kid that blows his knee out.

Mom and dad does. That kid's got to go live with that. If I got a kid that has, and I talked about this yesterday, I'm in New Orleans, right? Like some of these kids that come through our area, their avenue is sports. If they don't make it in sports, the street is calling for them, okay? So if I got a kid that's got 30 offers, he's a junior in high school, and he goes out there and blows his knee because some strength coach was doing some kind of bullshit with him, what happens to that kid afterwards?

He don't have to deal with with in his private and personal life. That's a problem to me because in order for us to check, like that's a kid that could go to college, get educated and come back and give something to our city. Like that shit ain't happening. If the kid gets hurt. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just, you know, another quick thing that I think is something that a lot of people would maybe criticize and think is how is that even possible?

Everybody believes that people's bodies are different. You see people who are actually naturally very bow-legged. Like you can – Dmitry Klokov is a great example of that. You see literally the way his femurs line up. He is bow-legged. Like you can, Dmitry Klokov is a great example of that. You see literally the way his femurs line up. He is bowlegged. So I think a criticism that people have is like, okay, you,

you notice these, these actions, these ways of movement, these bows. Well, not everyone's bowlegged. So how are you going to train that type of system into a person who isn't naturally bowlegged?

I know you've probably heard this before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.? I know you've probably heard this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a question you could ask me that I didn't hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what do you – It's not the shape that we're going after.

It's the behavior. All right. So we're looking for them to set a bow, meaning if the ankle and the hip are decompressed and the knee is sitting in the middle hinging, it don't matter. A valgus person could set a bow as long as the behavior is right. That's why probably some of your female athletes that are in Valgus don't. Yeah, you see that?

There's overbow too. Don't get me wrong. Like, too much of anything is no good, right? And it's not, we don't want you to be bow-legged. We want you to set a bow. So one's a behavior as opposed to a shape. Got it. But it helps him to kind of mitigate, you know what I mean?

It helps him mitigate the sport of weightlifting because he's able to be closer to the barbell. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know who's super bowlegged? It's Chris. Yeah, yeah, my brother. He's got a bunch of hip trouble. What I'm saying, it's not always the – that's a big confusion. They think we pigeon-toed and bow-legged. And we want it to be second toe straight, straight because that's what supports

that arch or that dome structure is when that second toe is straight, as opposed to if the foot opens, then the ankle has the space to collapse down and in. So if we got that second toe straight, it's going to make that ankle sit up higher. Because what happens is the guy that comes in duck footed, that's flat footed, he's got, you could see his ankle don't sit on top of his heel no more. It's kind of sit. My left one's like that. I've enrolled in and sprang it so many times that that's the side that I struggle with. But I can tell you this, if I didn't do this go to stuff, I wouldn't be walking around like I am now at 47 years old.

There's I'm sorry. I'm talking so much right now. No, no, no, dude. Give it to me. What you were mentioning there. We were just talking about this in the gym. And this is something that I find really interesting is that the way you do all the actions you take, you know, you're you're I was asking you about the way I stand and the way I move. And because when I was in the gym, I was noticing, I used to wear flip-flops a lot, and these are some Earthrunner shoes, but when I was a teenager, the doctor gave me orthotics because I was flat-footed. You put your foot on that thing and it shows your footprint, and my footprint was a blob.

And whenever I'd wear flip-flops in my early 20s, the footprint was a blob. It was like the arch here, you typically see a blob. But as we've been going down this rabbit hole of fixing our feet fixing the way we move and adjusting things in terms of how our actions like you look at the imprint that i have on this shoe this earth runner and you you saw some flaws with it but the thing that i was surprised about i'm like this is weird is i can see my fucking arch i have have an arch. When I was told you're flat footed,

you don't have an arch. Here's an orthotic. And that's, that's in both these feet. Like, I don't know if you can see this on camera, but I have an arch in this and it's going to continue improving over time. So when it comes to a lot of this movement stuff we're talking about and

adjusting the way you move and making these small changes over time, you can change the, you don't have these small changes over time, you can change. You don't have to be flat-footed if you were told you were flat-footed. A lot of it is maybe the things you're doing in the gym, maybe some of the things you're doing with your feet, the way you're walking. All of these things can be changed to be ideal, and you're not stuck with that paint of being flat-footed. If you've been flat-footed for a long time, use the same thing we just talked about. Think of it as a behavior instead of a shape.

You know what I'm saying? Like the behavior of the foot is not the same as a flat-footed behavior. Flat-footed behavior could be one thing, but the other thing with the human body is it's going to protect itself in a lot of different ways, right? Like, you know, you were saying you was working your scap because you had the injury. So you know that you're kind of protecting yourself on that side. So you were trying to decompress it, so to speak, right?

And open it up. The foot, I've seen people wear, I'm going to tell you who's a perfect example of it, is the fashion jogger. Y'all know who that is? The fashion jogger. Y'all know who that is? Fashion jogger? Pull her up. She's this beautiful Italian woman that runs. It's on a commercial.

Yeah, probably so. I know you. She runs. Ten years ago, she would bow and corner. Now she's pre-cornered. But what happened is she's starting to get a little bit inside ankle bone low. Well, she recently, not too long ago, had an injury where she said that there was an extra piece of bone by her navicular. Was it an extra piece of bone or was it a tissue that was being developed because the behavior of the ankle started to fall in and it becomes like a callus type shape?

Yeah, it calcifies to protect itself, right? Because it's starting to land right there and it's starting to go so it's like it puts a tissue there. Yeah, that's her. Oh, okay. Now this is the one I, okay. So she runs all over the world. Yeah. She'll go running snow and she's running and she's like,

she's got some crazy time too. But you know, if you're not moving right, the injury is going to come. So when we see somebody that goes super flat-footed in their behavior, see, she's got the heel flip because if you land pre-cornered, meaning your knee is in when you land instead of when your foot comes off the ground, then your heel is going to be automatically going to be away. Couldn't catch up to her if I wanted to. She's fucking flying, man.

She's moving fast. Her run looks so aesthetic. She's easy on eyes, too. I mean her run. She's good looking, too, but I was talking about her run, guys. You animals. Jesus. I didn't see a run yet.

I love you, Fallon. That's my wife. Uh-oh. Andrew, you're putting us in danger, Andrew. Stop. This wife. Uh-oh. Andrew, it's a little motion. You're putting us in danger, Andrew. Stop. This is all Andrew's doing. This is all just talking about form. It's great form.

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vivo barefoot dot com slash power project promo code power code powerproject20 to save 20% off. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Let's go ahead and get back to this podcast. You know, we had Corey Schlesinger on the podcast, Phoenix Suns strength coach. And I heard other people kind of say this as well. Like some people are of the belief that you should be able to do all different kinds of things with your foot and with your ankle and with your hip. Um, when, when we brought some of the go to stuff up to him and we brought certain things up to him, he was just like, I think that you should be able to do it all. And I don't think that you're saying that you shouldn't be able to

do it all, but I think what you're saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth so you can clarify. Um, but what you're saying is you're trying to recode people with a particular system to have them respond to patterns that they start to ingrain into their everyday life, into their sport. It's more of that, right? You're not like saying, I don't want to ever see these movements. They might happen. You might end up in compromising positions in sport. they might happen. You might end up in compromising positions in sport.

But there's not really, probably in your opinion, not a reason to train through those bad positions? Well, this is what I would say. Training in a bad position is not going to make you resilient to it. So training with the knees collapsed, you know, doing a squat. No, it's not going to make you resilient to it because a guy like Kevin Durant would have never tore his Achilles. Who gets more reps in on duck foot in their front chain than Kevin Durant? That's a good point.

So he would be the strongest person in the world. Now, saying that we was actually watching a video with Corey early and he don't like us. And that's OK. And it don't matter to me. I got like a very small circle but um i mean he's an nba strength coach he's dealing with high level guys nba is at all time history acl achilles taz and things like that so again we have these strength coaches that's part of a problem and then instead of saying they they and, all of that shit's all the same

regurgitated bullshit that they all saying. So when you see them – I was watching the Boston Celtics warm up in a championship, and one of the dudes that has been injured all the time, I can't remember who it was, but somebody brought it to my attention. They showed he had bands around his ankles, and he was walking like this, and he was walking around or whatever, and it's like the dude gets hurt, but that's his warm-up. So they had Odell was prepping for the Super Bowl.

He was prepping his warm-up was like some kind of thing where he was doing this stuff where he was slamming the inside of the foot into the ground. He had bands around his knees and stuff like that. And then he goes out there and tears his ACL in that shape. Now, what you guys predicted when you were here last time before the Super Bowl. Well, we worked with him four years ago. So we saw it in his workouts that he was standing on a Bosu ball and they were throwing him a football and he had these arm things on. Now, a lot of times it's products, right?

Like he was working his band system product for somebody. We went work with him. We did like three or four workouts with him. And then he never did a FaceTime. He never followed up with us or anything like that. And then he went out two years later, and he tore his ACL on the left leg. I have the video. I got the thing on my phone where your conversation is deleted after.

But we told him that his left side was going to be at risk because of what he was doing on the Bosa ball. He was balancing, and he was introducing collapse to it. Now, that's a good little segue to the little kid, the baby that I had showed you because what you do in repetition or what you do consistently or the shapes that you rest in are going to be present in your movement, right? It's going to show up in your game. So if you pull up the video, Andrew.

Where he's sitting? Yeah, the baby where he's sitting first. So you see how he's sitting inside ankle bone low? He's on that big toe, right? Now, if you go to the other video. So people can see it. he's on that big toe, right? Now, if you go to the other video.

So people can see it. And this is a family member, and they just want, you know, they believe in what we do. You see it there. Now, if you go to the run, you'll see, slow that down, you'll see that shape in the run. The same shape that he sits in in the run right now go pull up the one that i put with james winston so this is james winston stretching in the w and then he goes down into that position

because he introduced that to his nervous system so when he got pulled his moment of who i am and what kind of security or infrastructure i've built in my body if I've introduced my nervous system again like we said a five-year-old right if I show it inside ankle bone low in a w sit like that it will use that on the field at some point where there's a great video Aaron Rodgers going out of bounds and he's getting pulled down the exact same way. He goes inside ankle bone high. I got the kid, Jake Fromm, that was the quarterback at the University of Georgia in the SEC Championship about three years ago against LSU. Same thing. He gets hit, and he goes into a child rocker position,

and he gets laid flattened out. Both heels are out. Toes are in. He lays flat on his back, and he he gets up and he makes the next play. Yeah. You know? One thing, because you did mention the BOSU ball, and I think with a lot of these tools,

it depends on what the athlete is doing with it, right? Like you mentioned, he was going into those positions with the tool, but you don't have to use that tool. You don't have to go into those positions with that tool. No. don't have to use that tool. You don't have to go into those positions with that tool. It can be used for some great movements and great balance if you're doing the right things on it. Right. Right. So I did want to mention that because I think that's an amazing tool if the athlete uses it correctly. Oh, the BOSU ball is awesome. You can get into like a dome position with the feet and something like a hip circle, bands around the waist.

I mean, you can drive the heel out. Like that's what I always teach when I teach people to mess with any of those types of movement is to drive the heel out first, not to drive the toes out. But you never know what the fuck people are going to do when they're utilizing certain tools. Yeah, I mean, we like the Bosu ball. We use it for a couple of things. You know, we have our little products like the Chucks and the Slant Boards and things like that.

And Slant Boards have been around forever, but I think the way that we're using them is a little different than most people would. Just to feed into the system. Because when you get, you know, like somebody that's really trying to open their ankles up, we have like a version that's 22 degrees. So you could stand on it and the pressure just opens that outside of the ankle up is it the way you could just no this is the slant board y'all got a pair of them in

there but yeah you could get them with a little bit higher pitch so the more inside ankle bone low you are the more like 22s usually like more of like a therapeutic type situation or something where somebody's super collapsing ankles we would have them just come in kind of put them in a wall sit but not drive into the heel but let it like kind of rest where they could get in their back chain and load it up and then that way it'll start to shift that ankle back on top the heel but it'll open all of that tissue up on the outside that we were talking about so that the shin can open. Like, I didn't send you that picture of that semi-indigenous guy, did I, in the suppleness squat?

But that guy, you've seen how his ankle rolled open like that. That's what you need to have, and that's what a lot of people lose. A lot of it, too, is shoes and things like that, right? Like, most shoes are terrible. they're gonna kind of set you forward and shorter achilles and yeah even though even like the shoe that you got that has the little string between it kind of creates a behavior between the big toe and the second toe where it kind of wants to pick it up a little bit maybe or something like that like if you're walking with it but it's more of like the thong flip-flop more than that

because you got a little support around the ankle. But the thing is, is we put on minimalist shoes or barefoot shoes and we go walk on concrete. Like the concept behind that was it was more of this indigenous, like we want to plug into the earth, but most of the surfaces that we own are fake anyway. So when you go and you put on a minimum issue and then you you go on to concrete like are you really helping yourself because it hurts probably more

than it helps yeah no it can for sure but i like what liver king said about go walk in the grass right me and rj rj archibald is um is one of our coaches and he's he's up there he's he's one he's super super intelligent guy he's a chemist by trade. And he got into powerlifting and all of that stuff like that. And he kind of tore his body up a little bit. He was all jacked. And then he found go to and started kind of doing a go to. And that's all he preaches and teaches or whatever.

But he helps us a lot with the education and stuff like that. And we were talking about it today. And, you know, it's like this electromagnetic field that the earth has inside of it. And you have to plug back into that. That's why the Electron Plus feels so good that Jake brought over. You know what I'm saying? Because it stimulates those cells that are dying and it creates that electricity in there to liven you back up.

So when we get into like the therapy side of everything, like I have hyperbaric, I have cryotherapy, I have an electron plus, I have any kind of shit that you could think of because whatever somebody is comfortable with that makes them feel better through this process, then we want to do it. You know, it's I mean, that electron plus is like passive decompression. If you superset that with some go to exercises and stuff stuff like that, you're going to feel a lot better. Yeah. You know, on the wearing those shoes or barefoot shoes on concrete, I agree with you.

What happened was, like, when we started transitioning, like, when I was wearing those shoes, the Vivos or even these on concrete, my feet would hurt. my feet would hurt. So I had to go between wearing those shoes and then wearing my normal shoes that had more padding because like as my feet were changing, I needed time for my feet to be able to recover. So, you know, it's an interesting thing because it's like, yeah, you need to get your feet out on grass and natural surfaces, but it's hard to escape concrete. So how can you bolster that system enough where it can withstand? Because it has to withstand being on concrete. You can avoid it as much as you want, but you're going to be on it at some point. So can that system – and it's going to be a modern thing to see how we adapt and how we – if we adapt. But can we adapt and work in a way where we can now withstand that force that is not a natural force?

Because in some cases you have to. I'm not the guy. Yeah, but it is interesting. I do know this, though. I know that like what we was talking about with the groundwork video. I mean, whenever I showed the arch, and I don't know if you had a chance to watch it, but showing how like the different positions build an arch into the foot,

like the toe tuck rockers and things like that. Those things kind of wake the foot back up and create that dome type, that half dome shape, like which we would typically call an arch or whatever. But like even the iso hole, whenever you pick up, you come out of the toe tuck rockers and you get into that squat position and you're holding yourself up, that's an active foot. You know, I think a lot of times what happens is that somebody's gotten to the point where the foot ain't working no more like it's supposed to. And then we start looking for all of these ways to bring it back to life. I mean,

how many muscles in the foot? I mean, it's a serious complex system, right, that you just can't treat it any kind of way. So when we go and we start waking that thing back up, people's like, man, my feet feel better. So if you've been in a shoe like I got these Amaxes on, they're terrible. But they look good. They do look good. I mean, I like aesthetics, too. I mean, I like aesthetics too. But what I'm saying is if I've been wearing Air Maxes my whole life and I'm having knee trouble and I go to a barefoot shoe that makes me more conscious of my feet, then I'm probably going to support myself better, which in turn is going to alleviate some of that knee pain.

But do so where appropriate. I think in the gym is a great place for it. And it looks like most of the athletes you train, from what I noticed, they're not wearing a hoka. They're either barefoot or they're in some sort of middleless shoe. Yeah, we do a lot of stuff barefoot, as much as they can do. Right. We do barefoot, and it's because they feel more comfortable. Right. Yeah.

The shoe is a cast. It really is. But when you go on a walk, you guys are all bringing up really good points. And something I noticed more recently, walking, your natural gait, you're going to heel strike. It's like we don't want to heel strike in a lot of cases, but when you walk, you naturally – Are you striking or are you starting to absorb right there? Yeah, you're rolling. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, it's not like I'm stopping. Yeah, right. There's a difference because a heel strike is going to cause a problem. You look at some of the – like the Olam in position, right. There's a difference because a heel strike is going to cause a problem. You know, you look at some of the, like the Olam in position, right? They do this thing where they do this pass block and stuff where they slamming the heel into the ground. And, you know, they get Achilles tears and knee problems and they all wear knee braces and stuff like that.

And then you look at somebody like Andrew Whitworth, who was on his toes a lot, and he played 15 years without a knee brace, had a nasty contact injury like two years ago, comes back and wins the Super Bowl. 17 years in the NFL and 15 of them he didn't wear a knee brace. Yeah. Played on the balls of his feet. They got a guy for the Kansas City Chiefs.

Played on the balls of his feet. Never missed a game. the Kansas City Chiefs, played on the balls of his feet, never missed a game. I can't remember his name. It is an interesting thing. I mentioned this before, but one of my soccer trainers when I was younger, he's this African guy. His son played pro too, but he noticed when I was like 16, he's like, take your heels off the ground.

Whenever you're on the field, your heels are never supposed to touch the ground. You're always on your toes because you have to be able to change direction quickly. So he trained. He, like, grained that in me. If you ever see my heels on the ground during a drill, he's like, heels up, heels up, heels up. So I was just always, always on my toes or the balls of my feet. So that is a big concept when it comes to sport. Yeah, I think Rick told it, it too in the resting side of it,

like when he's in the line in Walmart. Remember he did the analogy where, hey, man, I just want to kind of keep – brush out my heel, be on the balls of the feet, keep my butt back, and I can put my hands on the buggy and kind of just stand there in my back chain and let the hamstring and the glute and the calf absorb the energy. You know what I'm saying? I've been doing that during this podcast. I've literally been standing here like doing some shit over here.

I've seen your big old smile come on your face when I said it. Yeah, man. It's going to be fun. Yeah. It's challenging because now it gives you something to be aware about too because most of this stuff is awareness, right? But again, you're getting some result from the system. You've been trying different things where you're getting some other results.

So it allows you to be open-minded. You know, some guys, like they got, I mean, one of the things that happened on that one post that I said where it's fake is the dude's like, I got a 42-inch vertical and I got this and I got that. And it's like, and I do all of these exercises. And I'm like, man, that's great. 30 years old. 30 years old. 35 years old. But come see me when you're 85 or when you're 80. And let's see if you can walk or not.

You know? And I'm not wishing that or nothing like that. But a lot of times it's like I get these 20-year-olds in my inbox. And they're like, bro, I can Olympic lift. I'm like, yes, you can. And they're like, no, I don't have no'm like yes you can and they're like no i don't have no problems or nothing like that i'm like i'm i'm glad you don't i don't want you to have problems yeah but what i'm saying is is that everybody that comes in our gym that has some

type of issue is duck-footed inside ankle bone low and in their front chain every single one of them nobody comes in there go to 10 and they're like i keep pulling my hamstring it don't happen it doesn't happen well look at it like there's so many lifters there's so many people that lift weights that wish that really wish they had access to what they were able to do when they were younger there's a lot of people that don't they they stop their athletics they get into strength training maybe they get into bodybuilding maybe they get a little bit of power lifting they do get bigger they do get stronger but they would love to just rip a football just to throw it as hard as they can as far as they can swing a baseball bat as hard as they can go sprint as hard as they can or as hard as they want to on the beach or something like that and they can't yeah and it's like how does that like does that it doesn't automatically degenerate dude think about this too like it's like why is the gym

like it doesn't it's not a mimicker i got fired up last time with andrew or whatever whenever we was talking about him with his little boy right like it is your birthright to have a child and it is your birthright to get on the floor and sit down with that child imagine andrew your relationship between you and your child and how it could be different if you couldn't sit crisscross applesauce you know what i'm saying like now you could get down on his level he could see you he's looking up instead of just being where you got to sit on the sofa with him because what you're doing on the sofa is killing his ability to develop because now he's going to come sit by you or he's going to come stand up in front of you and you're going to limit his movement where you get on the ground, crawl around with him, sit crisscross

applesauce. He's going to mimic every single thing that you do. You know what I'm saying? So it's kind of like we are subconsciously passing things down generational too that gets worse and worse. The phone's another problem, right? So now you got what, Generation Z or something like that? Like we got orthopedic surgeons now that are talking to us and these therapists and stuff. Like Goda's not just a couple of guys with some idea no more or something like that. It's starting to be taken very seriously. So when you look at the orthopedic surgeons and stuff, when we see the neck and all of that now,

the cervical spine has changed in the last 10 years so much. And now, I mean, listen, my in-laws do it. My parents do it. My wife does it. I'm on her ass all the time. Stop giving them the phone. Because if they're bad, we give them a cell phone or we sit them down. And now you're stopping a natural pattern that is supposed to happen.

Anytime you break that up. So take a kid that grew up 25 years ago or whatever and didn't have a cell phone and things like that and go put him in the weight room he's gonna withstand what's going on in that weight room way longer than the kid that comes in pelvic tuck shoulders down head down like this you can't put that under a bar you know what i'm saying so there's a lot of different variables that's feeding into this injury rate thing i'm not blaming like that's another thing where it's a misconception that we're in that space, right? We're in the training industry. But General Pop's having as many problems or more, 80% of the world's in back pain.

Nobody can change my mind about that. How many people, oh, my back's been bothering, 30 years old. And they sit there and they say that stuff. And then they can't figure it out. And then they go, now, what is wrong been bothering 30 years old. Yeah. And they sit there and they say that stuff and then they can't figure it out. And then they go. Now, what is wrong is the health care system is fucked up. Like you go to physical. There's a process that's involved, right?

Like the first time you go to the doctor, my back's hurting me. OK, well, look, we're going to try some ice treatments. We'll give you some anti-inflammatories. We'll send you on your way. Then you come back. Well, look, let's go try some physical therapy. You go to physical therapy. Then they come back, we'll go send you on your way. Then you come back, well, look, let's go try some physical therapy. You go to physical therapy, then they come back, let's go send you to an MRI. It's almost like –

And they got to check to see what kind of insurance you have. Yeah, and all of that stuff dictates a lot of the way that it's treated too. Where it's like, hey, buddy, just get in a child rocker position for five minutes a day and you'll feel better. You know, get your ass back behind your chest where it's supposed to be at. I mean, because Rick says it all the time too, flips out a coin. Flips out of the coin for training is rest. If we're resting decompressed in these positions that we use to move forward, then we're going to keep that system open.

If we close the system whenever we're resting and then we go back and we got to get in our back chain and get tall and, I mean, get down and get athletic and play linebacker. You know, I got – listen, Adafi Owe came in and did some work with me. He was a first-round draft pick for the Ravens out of Penn State. Penn State's weight room, serious. He's like, man, how you feel about weights? I'm like, I feel like you ain't never gonna have

to lift one again. The dude's 6'5", 245 pounds, and he ran a 4.36 at his combine. I'm like, bro, guess what, dog? You just walk in the room and you look like you ain't gotta do nothing but exist. You know what I'm saying? And then you

go and you take this guy and you open up his stance and you take him out. And it's like, that ain't how he looks in real life. It don't even match with what he does on the field. And that's where it's like, he's like, so you're telling me we ain't going to lift? I'm like, yeah. He's like, Sabre, I'll fuck with you. I'm like, yeah.

Can I ask you something? Back chain versus front chain dominant. We were talking about it in the gym, and I understand it now. But as you're using those terms, how can people visualize it? Like the way they stand, what is a front chain dominant stance? We had pictures. Did I send you that? Yeah, yeah, you did.

Versus a back chain dominant stance. And why is it important for people to stand being back chain dominant and move being back chain dominant? So when you think about, I mean, if you just stand up and do it, if you push your butt back, you know, you're going to feel like a little bit more open. The baby's back chain dominant in that picture. His hip bone sitting right above his ankle. His chest sits three to five degrees in front of it. That way, the hips have the ability to work. The feet are straight.

The inner ankle bones are high. Whereas when you're in the front chain, the glute, the hamstring, all of that stuff gets tight and you get stuck there. Like I think everybody in the world would sit there and say that this is not something that you want to take to the athletic field. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But go look at the finish of every pull from the ground.

Yeah, and the spinal compression that happens when you're up here. Yeah. Now, how many kids, how many high school and college? That's Jabari Mack. That's the kid that you saw his heel flipping away earlier. Look at that. That dude don't lift weights. He trains with us.

Golly. He's going to be a freshman in high school. His lower body, because he's back chain dominant, is blown up. Blown up. Dude, they got dudes that's in the weight room right now trying to get that, and they never will. Yeah. But he is training. It's a good thing to point out.

Yeah. He's very active. He's training. He's got a field work guy, Corey Hardy. He does a great job with trying to stay in line with the things that we teach and things like that. There's little Gary and his back change. See how the butt's back there?

The head's sitting up on the shoulder. Even though he's looking down, it's sitting back different. His shoulders are back. And he's got the pole up here because it's more natural for him. Now, if something would have hooked it, he probably would have ripped out his hands. They would have ripped out his hands. But that ain't even, if you look, I was not giving him a hook. That's a fake fish on the end of that thing that he kept throwing out into the water.

He's like, Dad, I haven't caught shit. Did we have a front chain guy? Did I send you something front chain? I don't think so. Let me just pull up any bodybuilder. Yeah, just about. Yeah. So the baby's back chain, when it's bone, it's hips are behind its chest,

and the glutes develop back there. Look at the haunches on that kid. So, I mean, you guys may have talked about this in the last podcast i'm sorry mark i know i'm asking so many fucking questions man this is great but this i'm gonna shut up in a second but don't one thing that people uh think about is like okay why are they referencing babies so much like we we grow up we develop muscle we develop strength why babies aren't fully developed babies aren developed. Why are we referencing babies so much? So why are we referencing babies so much?

And what can we learn from them? Well, the hip technology is the same. Because like I said, the pivot point's at the knee and the crawl, but it's at the foot. And the healthy, when they set the bow, the knee goes out. And, you know, the shin opens up with a straight foot. The baby is our God given. Nobody taught the baby. So you got a few things that's crisscross apples.

Nobody teaches you that. Nobody teach that baby to drop down into that squat. It plays like that. It'll sit there and eat like that. Nobody teaches the baby how to crawl. It just develops that pattern. There's instinctive innate patterns that happen. Why would that change when we stand up?

The way that the hip moves to push us forward, why would it change whenever we stand up? And a baby doesn't – they barely walk. They go from like – as soon as they can stand, they start to run. And they run uh their toes are pointed at each other quite a bit like they're kind of pigeon-toed a bit and they just kind of like they use that giant head they just get more they just get momentum and they're and they're running you know in this uh and they're on their toes yeah well not on their heels the the the thing is is i just i mean it's it's if you look at the baby and then you go look at the indigenous guy who's never been told to do anything and never been told to, you know, nobody's guided him.

He hasn't been involved in Western civilization. You know, the Karubo tribe or somebody like that. Them dudes are back chain dominant. Look, we just repping out what we saw. Yeah. And when you do mention those indigenous tribes like i think that's an important thing there are a lot of habits within western culture a lot of things that we do sitting in seats sitting on sofas not moving shoes a lot of these things inform the way we move so like get to my age or you get into your 20s and you can't sit down in a squat comfortably anymore but then you you hear like, oh, well, who does that?

Nobody fucking does that. Well, people that have been living using their bodies because it is a user elusive system. They can do that shit normally. They can just hop. I know this guy. I do jujitsu with his name's Julian. And when he told Graham this and he told me this, I'm like, you're fucking shitting me. He moves in an amazing way.

I need to ask him about how he grew up. But when he takes a shit, he put his he stands on the toilet right he stands on the toilet and he hops into that squat and shits yeah but he can just do that and he'll just like chill in that squat when we're doing jujitsu and just like talk and question but the way his body moves is and he moves well like he has muscle too but he just has access to all these things because he never stopped doing it and he never started doing things the way that we do it here in western society right yeah i mean the baby's unscathed by western civilization until we put it in the bouncy thing with its feet out we make it jump up and down like i said earlier the best

thing you could do with your kid is corner off a room and put a fence up and let him crawl around and put his toys in there. Because another thing you're going to see with a baby, too, babies are going to use best practice, right? If a baby knows what you could take and give a baby when they like, you know, I don't know how old. When they start and they're in that crawling phase, you give them a popsicle. They'll sit there. It gets all over them and all of this stuff. phase, you give him a popsicle. He'll sit there and gets all over him and all of this stuff. You put that baby on the other side of that room after he's had his first popsicle,

and then you give him another one, but you stand on the other side of the room. If he's in that stage between crawling and walking, he will crawl there because he ain't going to try to walk. He's going to go there the fastest way that he knows possible, which is his crawl pattern in the beginning, because it's the most innate, it's the most efficient way that he has to move until he develops the walk. So when we go from that crawling to the walking, once you see that baby take not his first steps, because what they're doing with the head is, you mentioned that earlier, is they wobble. They bring in that head column to column, and they pressurize in that column with the butt back.

And they're building up the haunches the same way. Babies move heel away. They kind of spiral off the outside part of the foot a lot of times. Now, you could go find a video of a baby on its inside edge. I showed it to you, right, because of the way that he rests. So that's why the babies were so important. That's why the indigenous tribesmen were so important. Because some fat, ball-headed white dude didn't tell him to fucking load up a bar and squat.

You know what I'm saying? That's why. You just offended 90% of the people. I'm joking, guys. I'm playing. It's so funny. Oh, dude, my dad's like somebody's gonna kick your ass you're getting your ass beat one day somebody's coming in the gym are you gonna be somewhere else

look such small miles right you know uh babies and even like infants and stuff they they got the belly out a little bit too they breathe into their belly they do a lot of things right the spine is usually real flat too and when they go go down in a squat, it's like the most perfect looking squat you've ever seen in your life. It's incredible. Their spines are decompressed. Like in the spine couples, you know what I'm saying? It's got like a system that it's made to twist and bend and do all kind of stuff. It has to.

Otherwise, we'd be paralyzed if it was compressed. I mean the first thing that we do when we get somebody with sciatic pain is we decompress them passively. It has to. Otherwise, we'd be paralyzed if it was compressed. I mean, the first thing that we do when we get somebody with sciatic pain is we decompress them passively. And the Egoscue's got some good methods for decompression and stuff like that. I don't know how much y'all looked at that. But we got a couple of little bits and pieces in our program that, you know, is the Egoscue method or whatever. He was one of Gilly's first uh mentors or whatever but you know you were saying um one of the best things you can do for a kid is to kind of corner off a room and kind

of let them go yeah um wouldn't you kind of say the same thing would be true with somebody with sciatica or somebody like you know we crawl we crawl off sciatic patients you know you have like an aunt or uncle or somebody bring them back to the original pattern back pains like hey let's just fucking move your couch out of there like just yeah start laying on the floor get some like padding or or mat you know of some kind of to be on the floor a lot more i i think that's one of the most valuable things that you guys share and something that ricky shares is like your recovery is on the ground you know you get done with your sport you go do your thing you don't just sit in a recliner you get down on the floor.

That's where your recovery happens. Dude, I wanted to know, you were talking about the babies and putting them in the corner or whatever. We were doing somebody's show one day, and me and Rick sit up there, and he's talking, and I got my bottle of water or whatever. And the dude goes, it was like an open thing where we were getting questions and stuff. And some guy goes, what's the best way to kind of help your kid or whatever whenever you're you're out and about or something like that how can you help him to stay go to he's like let the fuckers hands go just like that instead of hold you know how you hold them like this see the kid dragging behind i'm like put him on a leash i don't know what to say but like let him just let them do what they do they know better than us they really do

how many of them pull a hamstring a blow acl or something like that it just don't happen yeah you wouldn't even know if they did or the like the weird positions that they'll get themselves into when they fall over or something like my son will i'm like i would have blew out a quad and a hamstring at the same time if i would have did that yeah he knows exactly how to roll off stuff and it just he doesn't get hurt and he's always on his toes too somebody's protecting him yeah I thought it was funny watching the way he moves like I'm like dude my son's my hero because like the way he sits in Seiza the way he walks like all that stuff it's just it's really incredible but a question I did have for you is like sometimes even within like you know the go-to community I'll see people like really arched up is that like an issue because like even with like

um when we're you know you're coaching and seeing what they're standing I was trying to do it and I found myself like kind of like how I am right now like a little bit too much maybe tilted forward no no just like oh so tilted forward but like to bring my chest up and back overextended so overextending my back. Like this or something. Right. I'll just stand up real quick. But yeah, is there an issue with that?

I mean, it's probably not natural. And then, yeah, they do that. I see that too. Fake it till you make it. I don that too. Fake it till you make it. I don't know. I mean, one thing is like what we did with GoTo was, and we really started to enforce it now, is we have an app for the coaches to go on. The app has a series of exercises in it for you to recode somebody

and bring them back to life, right? That app is designed with no failure. You will do the eval and whatever you give them inside of that app is controlled by me and Ricky. And you can't mess nobody up with it, okay? Then there's Recode 225, which I built. So there's a system that's set up for the coaches. They get it all for a year for free after they become a coach, after they get certified. And then I integrated it. So there's a map that it's not, the integration is not complete yet, but there's a map that when you're in the app and you pay your renewal fee, which is $40 a month or $354 a year, they don't, that's all, that's all it is for them to stay plugged in. And then it's integrated with a map and the map advertises the coach.

So if you look at for a go to coach, when you go to the website, it's going to pop up, find a coach. You click on that. It goes to the map. If you in California, you could see who's in California as long as they certified and plugged in. So it kind of gives like, you know, from a business standpoint, we want the coaches to have the information up to date all the time. But some of them come in, they get certified. They try to say they'll go to coach and then they go off and they kind of go rogue a little bit and they doing whatever they doing. But they not plugged into the new information. So as we evolve, they don't evolve.

OK, so it kind of creates a little bit of a problem. So, and then again, I don't care. See, this is the funny thing too, is humans are humans, right? Like once somebody walks away and says, I'm never going to power lift again, then they walk away from it. They cool with it. But that don't mean that they coachable. That don't mean that they could come in and get certified and then get a phone

call from me saying, Hey man, I saw saw your Instagram post and that's not go to. And then they like, well, what can we like? They start having this little bit of a attitude like and it's like, look, I'm not going to push back. Just stay plugged into the app or stay plugged into the website to where you constantly get the current information. where you constantly get the current information. That way you're going to be a better coach because our results, I mean, our system as a whole, meaning if you will go to coach and you will go to coach and you're doing a great job and you're doing a bad job, we're doing a bad job. Right?

So if you don't have the information that you need to stay current and stay up to date, it hurts us. You know what I'm saying? So it's just one of them things where you're going to see some stuff out there that I wouldn't necessarily co-sign. Somebody might have got certified four years ago. I have a question about that. And, you know, there's a lot of different systems.

There's GODA. There's WEC. There's GOTA, there's WEC, there's ATG, there's the thing that people have been doing for a long time, which is strength conditioning in the weight room with cleans, presses, deadlifts, bench, all of that. But when a person goes and they learn a system, it's like, let's say a GOTA, and they learn a lot of the concepts, right? Let's say that they truly conceptually understand what you guys are trying to achieve with the body, the ankle complex, the hips, the way people stand, the way people move. Um, my curiosity is like,

wouldn't it be beneficial for the person who's like, yeah, go to works for athletes. You've shown examples. I see how it's beneficial. I can understand it. But wouldn't it be beneficial for that coach to learn things from different systems so that they can try to see, well, these guys are achieving some sort of result here that seems to be pretty interesting.

Why are they achieving that result? Maybe some of their athletes are genetic freaks, but is there something within this other system? concepts not everything they do but their concepts that i can maybe bring back and bolster the system i already have that's the way i think about it because yeah there are going to be some people that are going to take what you guys do go their way apply it to some go back to doing deadlifts and sumo deadlifts or whatever okay yeah but i i feel like i i think that there could be people within that who are like okay i get this but i see what they're doing over here and this is fucking cool how can i use that to bolster everything we're doing here what do you think

about that um i think people are free to do it i don't listen i'm saying on deadlift and athlete but i think powerlifters should do go to, not just from a business standpoint, but to help alleviate some of the problems that they may have. Um, if, um, I think that there's a lot of great performance type systems out there. If we just strictly look at performance, okay, like can we make somebody faster? Can we make them stronger? When I look at somebody like somebody that's really got this 40-yard dash

dialed in is like a Mo Wells, okay? He was down at House of Athlete. Exos has done a great job at dialing in the 40-yard dash. The thing that I would tell them if they asked, which they probably won't, is that they have no security in their program, right? Because the methodology that they use to develop it, it might be triple extension. It might be some type of linear speed training that can make you faster, but it could also bastardize your movement.

So, you know, the 40 yard dash is a one rep max. If I pride myself in that, I only need you to be great one time because you're going to run the 40 one time when it counts. And that's at your combine, right? Or maybe at a college camp or something like that. Where do we start seeing these guys breaking down at? I mean, you saw Achilles' tear this year at with the kid from Michigan or whatever that shredded his Achilles at his biggest job interview? But then we invest in all of that time and effort and money

into that type of training, and the dude still goes in the first round or the second round. So he's still going to get millions of dollars even though he was injured. So why? He didn't even get to perform, and he went up that high. So why would we invest in a one rep max system when we could invest in something that's more complete that's going to

keep you healthier? If somebody wants to take and combine them two things, then that's not the lane that I'm in. To say that it's okay. I don't know. Can you micro those certain things with Gota and things like that? You could try it. I'm not even talking about a one rep max system though. i don't know can you micro dose certain things with goda and things like that you could try it i'm not even talking about a one of our max system though like i i i don't like i agree

with you on the athletes don't need to be doing conventional deadlifts and like squats i don't think i don't that's what i mean but i mean other type of movements that may utilize things in terms of certain types of dumbbells and kettlebells and things like that that can still allow a range of movement i would say they can they can yeah exactly but they can the concepts that you guys have can be applied so it doesn't bastardize the movement of the athlete right that's what i'm thinking yeah yeah i mean and this is the other thing too we probably do a lot more stuff than what we put out there, per se, too. Whereas, like, people would be like, because, I mean, everybody thinks it's, like, we can't show you all the sauce. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, we're going to get into our upper body thing. Like, we're going to work out all week and then next week while we're here. And then we're going to get into our upper body workout that's undefeated. It has never lost. It's going to kill us. I mean, I got guys that come in, they bench 450 and stuff like that, upper body workout that's undefeated. It has never lost. It's going to kill us. I mean, I got guys that come in, they bench 450 and stuff like that, and they're dead in 30 minutes.

So it's high volume is all it is. Everything's till failure. When you work till failure because you're trying to tear the system down but not destroy it, you aim at the goal, shred the muscle, let it heal, feed it what it needs, and let it get bigger.

We put weight on people. We do. But, I mean, to answer your question, I'm not trying to go out and test other ideas and concepts. Somebody else could do it. I got people that call me all the time, and they're like, Coach, man, I've been applying it to this, this, and this. And it's helped me tremendously.

You know, it's just their belief system is different than ours. Some people you could show it to. I mean, immediately, a lot of times it's like, you had introduced me to the Olympic lifting guy last time, and we talked for a little while, and it was a great conversation. what was his name uh it's a guy from Cal Strength yeah um Dave Dave Spitz Dave Spitz yeah and uh super great conversation super nice guy or whatever and we was talking about and he was like yeah a lot of what you're saying is is you know things that we try to implement and try to keep feet straight and things like that but you know to develop that we try to implement and try to keep feet straight and things like that.

But, you know, to develop this, we got to do this and certain things like that. So you'll see him like not tell us we wrong. But then when I go look at the page, it's all one thing. So, you know, I don't know. The guy's the best at what he does, though. But I feel like, again, too, you had mentioned something earlier about different things, different athletes. Like, I feel like things need to be categorized a little bit better. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, if you want to do this, go do that. But don't mix this with that because it might not work out the best. Obviously, we have something wrong because the injury rate is ridiculous. It's like, I mean, it's refreshing to go watch a football game or a basketball game where somebody don't get hurt. Yeah. It's like we just take it.

I mean, even Jeff Van Gundy one time on one of the NBA games was like, man, do we need to have a meeting with all of the trainers in the NBA and sit them down and say, guys, what can we do different? Like, I mean, these injuries are just at an all-time high. It's such an interesting thing, like, you know, trying to work with athletes and trying to figure out ways to make them more explosive. So many athletes are already very explosive. So it's kind of hard to, like, know for sure what exactly makes them more explosive. And then we have preconceived notions and a lot of, uh, information from years ago where we kind of hang on to these

beliefs. Like I know for sure that, uh, you know, these people need, uh, cleans and they need snatches and need plyo work. They need ladder work. And this is the way we're going to build people to be, uh, bigger, faster, stronger. And we're going to use the ladder and all this stuff. But you guys don't seem to have a problem with helping people to be more explosive. No, I mean, I don't, you know, I had a kid. Like you're literally getting better 40 times. You're literally getting better. Oh, we're not losing anything. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like a lot of the guys that come into me now, they don't need to run a 40 no more. that come into me now, they don't need to run a 40 no more. They need longevity.

So it's like everything, I guess, has its place in a sense. Do we think that everybody could hook up a sled to their back and be a go-to-ten and pull that sled and get faster? Absolutely, because everybody else does sled pulls or sled pushes or something like that. There's just certain things that mechanically just do not fit into locomotion. Those things need to be removed. Some of the other, like, we're going to do a sled workout too, and you're all going to feel like you're not going to feel like you're doing a

go-to workout. You're going to feel like you're just working out. You know, it's like everything's got to have a name, though, I guess you could say. And a lot of that stuff we did, for lack of better words, there's a way that we push a sledding goater. There's a way that, and everything's all

the same, feet or fists width apart. That we load the, not the outside of the foot, we load four through five. The heel moves away from the body. There's a rotation. The hip opens, it closes. We don't do nauticurls because the hip's not opening and closing the body. There's a rotation. The hip opens, it closes. We don't do nautic curls because

the hip's not opening and closing to train the hamstring. Why would we do a nautic curl to strengthen a hamstring when it's not used that way on the field? And I could go show you a nautic curl and put it side by side with a sprinter, and you're going to be like,

yeah, that don't make sense. There's not load in both directions either. When you say there's not load in both directions, what do you mean? Meaning like when a foot comes off the ground, it's not loaded no more. You're never letting the hamstring relax. Like in other words, when it sets, when you look at Bolt come out the block, so you look at Randy Moss in one of the videos or Ed Reed, the hip actually sets Reed, the hip actually

sets back, the knee goes out and it's loading the glute and hamstring. Then whenever it lets go, your fascia is wrapped inside. It turns in as it goes down and then you set against it and load it. That's why we say we load force or we load the body and then it releases. The heel flip is just the result of that whipping type motion of that fascia coiling back. So what you're saying is that the loading the Nordic curl because it's loaded in a… From a linear perspective, it might look like it fits because you can't see the front and the back. So when you show that, you see what?

You can see how it could work. See, I'm glad you brought this up. But any curl, right? Any leg curl basically, right? There's extension. You just showed a triple extension exercise and a nautic curl now go and show that kid jabari from the front and the back should we slow this down let me go grab that other which one the one on my page the um the kid uh

that the the one where we were showing the foot come off the ground. Or you could show the Ed Reed one. So which one? It's fake. Use it's fake. There you go. Whoa. Look at Mark Bell commenting on my post. I got to be doing something right.

Knee out. And then you see how it kind of has a rotation in it. It's not a straight line movement on the feel. But in the exercise it is, it's straight line. So why wouldn't we train that hamstring in the way that it actually moves when that fascia is not wrapped? It's not in a straight line. It's like a swirling type effect i see what

you're saying so i have a question work against the the design yeah so i have a question because yeah it's it's working in a straight line so there couldn't be first question do you believe that the exercise itself is actually of non-benefit or um actually hurting the athlete over time and then the second thing is do you think adjusting the foot position of the curl non-benefit or actually hurting the athlete over time? And then the second thing is, do you think adjusting the foot position of the curl, whereas not to be straight line, but maybe to be more internal and going out? So, for example, on a GHR, instead of being straight, have your feet here closer together so that the legs are coming out this way and still do that movement. Do you think that there's no benefit in that?

I mean, if I'm trying to just make the muscle bigger, there is. Okay. I mean, athletically, there's no benefit. If a bodybuilder or somebody like that that needs to show a big muscle, they could isolate. Again, you're isolating, but you're not even isolating it the way that it's used. I wouldn't do that with a sprinter. And if they got somebody out there that goes, all sprinters do it. Well, thank you for validating my point because they all have soft tissue injuries too.

Tell me a sprinter that ain't pulled a hamstring. Right. I mean, they all do it. They call it fast people problems. Maybe it's the training is the problem because that dude that's fast was fast when he was little. Yeah. You know, he was exceptionally fast. You know, if you got kids that play sports or you go to a kid's game,

there's going to be a kid out there that's faster than everybody. When he's 10 years older, he's still one of the fastest dudes out there. Does those things – I don't think that a nautic curl makes you faster by no means, but I'm saying all the exercises that make you more explosive and things like that, I think a nautic curl will make your hamstring stronger. But stronger for what? For what? That's the key question, right? So the question I have for there is because when people typically reference high-level genetic freak type athletes, that's a movement that some research, and maybe this research is wrong, has shown that athletes get less hamstring injuries with that type of ability. But also, when you do look at freak athletes, freak athletes are typically able to, even if they don't train it, they have the ability to do it.

So my question is, if the freak athletes have the ability to do it and they don't even train it, right? And sometimes we tend to follow the logic path of what does the freak athlete able to do and how can we replicate that within normal athletes? Following that logic path, you still don't think that there is a benefit for an athlete to have that skill.

I'm not, when I say have that skill, I don't mean you're doing fucking Nordic curls every day, every training session or, or multiple times because it's an extremely fatiguing movement, but attaining the skill to do a baseline amount of that movement, not to a, again,

not to like a bodybuilder level, but a baseline ability to do that movement. You think that that is not good for sport or that pulls the athlete back from being a better athlete. I'm just curious about that. I don't think the weight room makes you a better athlete. Yeah. Yeah. I get what you're saying.

That's true. Yeah. So I don't – I mean I think it's associated with hamstring trouble, like is what I'm saying. I think that that exercise is associated with hamstring problems. I know that it's one of Tyreek Hill's favorite exercises. Like I've been in the rooms with the people that work on him, so I know what his problems are day to day growing in hamstrings now he he was a guy that i

guarantee you tyreek hill was fast in high school and i guarantee he was fast in college oh yeah and i guarantee you he's the fastest man in nfl right now probably did the hamstring did the nautic curl do him that or was it they were trying to make him faster or keep him above everybody, but it gave him some issues? Like, I mean, and I'm sure you could argue it the other way, and I'm sure that there's studies out there that say that the hamstring, you know, a nautic curl protects the hamstring more. But is it an immediate result?

Like, is it one of them things you got to continuously do, like some of the other programs or whatever? Do we have to? How long do I have to do Nauticurls? Am I just be able to go run? That's one thing I think. I don't think it's a type of movement. And many of these movements, I don't think they're things that you need to do perpetually.

Because there are certain things that will stay with an athlete. For example, I know athletes who have developed a skill to do a baseline amount of those. They don't train that anymore, but they can still do a baseline amount of those. So that's why I think when some people think about certain movements, it's like, are you doing this all the time? No, no, no, no. You can look at some of these movements like developing a skill or a strength that then you can maintain with your athleticism. That's the way I think about it. I think this is a strength toto-weight ratio type of scenario. So if you were to go around to some local high schools

and try to have some kids do some Nordics, you would probably find some of the fastest kids on the team could do some Nordics. Absolutely. But it's a strength-to-weight ratio. They can probably also perform pull-ups really well. They probably also don't have excess body fat. It's kind of like the it's kind of like what we were saying earlier about the the the kid that's the man is going to

be the man like and listen jamal don't train with us no more he you know he's big nfl star now he's he's elsewhere or whatever but um dude i didn't make him a better football player. You know what I'm saying? I spent four or five years with the kid, and he's like family. You know, like if I see him, it's like, what's up, nephew? You know what I'm saying? But I didn't make Jamar good. Jamar was great to begin with. I just had the fortune of him walking in my gym and then trying to,

once I figured out what I was doing wrong, I tried to protect because we did all of that stuff. I had 30% of my kids had soft tissue injuries. Now I didn't, I had somebody that is a very, very good weight trainer that was doing the weight training and stuff like that for me. It,

it, he probably had problems. You know what I'm saying? Even at the highest level, and it's just been chalked up as part of the problem or it's part of sports, not part of the problem, but it's injuries and hamstrings are going to happen. And then the first thing that happens is you'll hear a checklist that's brought in. Okay, well, was he hydrated?

Was he this? Like the last thing at the list is we shouldn't do nauticurls. And I mean, they might have a study out there on them. And then you do a study for a year, and then after that year's over with, did somebody pull their hamstring the next year? What's the long-term effect of some of these things for an immediate result? Because I need you to play second and third contract. I don't need you to have repetitive hamstring injuries.

I mean, Leonard Fournette just had, like this year, he had the hamstring tear again or whatever. And, I mean, he had it his rookie year that kept him off the field. He had it in his third year. Now he gets a one-year. I think he had a one-year deal this year or he had a one-year deal the year before. Like these guys, it's starting to show up. And, hey, man, before I give you this $100 million,

like Devontae Adams ain't got hurt. And, you know, it's starting to show up in their contractual things. You get an injury, you tear ACL or something like that, these things happen, you come back. But when I go to sit down with you, now Tyreek Hill just got big money, but he don't really miss no games. these things happen, you come back. But when I go to sit down with you, now Tyreek Hill just got big money, but he don't really miss no games.

You know what I'm saying? But I know what he's getting worked on. I know what they're working on on him on a regular basis. Whereas I would say that at this level, at this point, why even do it? Why even take the chance? Because he may think that it's keeping him healthy and some people may argue that that it is giving him the ability to to play well he bowed and cornered

before and i don't remember him ever really having like no major injury or nothing so when you're giving out 250 million dollars i need to give it to the guy that's going to be there on sunday if you want to stick to a nordic curl, like not meaning you, but mean like just in general, if you want to stick to a Nordic curl that has hamstring injuries all around it, meaning is it the cause? Maybe not. But what if we take it away and see what happens? Or what if, you know what I mean? Like if that's the case, but some people's not going to say that. They're going to go to all of those other things on that checklist. Was it this? Was it overworked?

Was it that? Was we doing too much running? Was we doing this? Because you can't have a hamstring pull in the fucking forest when you're hunting down a pig or whatever. Because if you pull your hamstring and you get stuck out there, you're going to die. So you didn't see hamstring injuries and plantar fasciitis and calf and Achilles. That's all back chain issues. Front chain dominant people and people that do front chain dominant exercises,

which a nautic curl is, is going to make you front chain in your movement behavior. If you have a nervous system that is go to and you give it front chain information, that nervous system, again, like we talked about protecting the spine, is going to give you a hamstring issue before it ruptures a disc in the back. So, like, because it's interesting. So, even not talking specifically about the Nordic Code, but talking about referencing athletes, because a lot of athletes have a dream of those contracts that you're talking about. A lot of these athletes, some of them aren't genetically gifted.

Like some of these freak athletes, you mentioned that football player, like he came in like a freak and you reinforced good movement within him so that he could get to that level. But for people that aren't at that level and they don't have the genetics of some of these freak athletes, they try to do things to try to recreate or gain the level of movement, but also the level of supposed strength that these athletes have. Do you think that they're going about it the wrong way when they look at the way maybe the strength that some of these high level hockey players had or high level like Tyreek Hill? That's one people that people continue to refer to because of his Nordic level skill. But also you do see that skill in top level athletes. But do you think the way people are looking at that is wrong? Like just because they can do that does not mean that if you can do that, you can be close to that level. You need to.

We did it from a health side. Yeah. We looked at the high level guy that was healthy. You know what I'm saying? Like, but we rep out that pattern that was healthy. You know what I'm saying? But we rep out that pattern that we saw. We don't rep out exercise to make a muscle stronger. We let the

system strengthen as a whole. So if we're doing drop-ins, I could set you in a drop-in and I can get your hamstring and work your hamstring in a bow. You know what I'm saying? So why would I put you on your knees and then make you use your heels? And why would I do that if it don't match up with what he's going to be doing?

Because from the side view, and I mentioned this yesterday, it looks like a nautic curl kind of fits in there. It looks like you may get some kind of faster, what they call it, when your gait cycle will get fast or whatever steps per second or something because you you're working that hamstring the way you could pop that thing up real quick and put it on the ground and then in the track and feel industry you'll see a lot of people where they put the foot out and they're trying to pull themselves down the track so they got the exercise where they just kind of swiping the foot on the fence and stuff like that. That is all a linear concept. So when you look at it from the side,

it's extension, flexion, dorsiflexion, plantar flexion, and things like that. When you look at it from the front and the back, well, a bow setting and it's releasing, setting and releasing. Where they're at in the phase of their sprint is determining how big that bow is yeah so that it don't even don't even really it's not even happening that's why we have to look at it from the front and the back okay so and this is i'm gonna shut up mark i'm talking i'm asking so many questions man but it's getting my brain going no because this is important because it's the questions that we get asked on a regular basis yeah yeah and i do have guys that have pulled

their hamstring i'm not yeah yeah so you're saying guys that have pulled their hamstring. I'm not – Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're saying you're not immune to that. No. Well, I'm not because they also are going in the weight room and they also are doing nauticals at training and things like that. I mean, is it a big thing?

I've had two of them with my big guys and that was it. I haven't had any – I've had guys with repetitive hamstring injuries that have come in and never put a hamstring again that that's you know uh maybe i'll sound like a parrot like this but that's that when i think about it like when i think about certain people who just do isolated type movements and they're not maybe working on the system of movement that they have encoded and ingrained they do these these isolates and isolates and isolation. They do sport and then certain things happen. Right.

But then I think about like, okay, code the movement. But, and I know you mentioned when doing certain isolate, isolated movements, it can send the wrong signals, but it makes me think like if some of these movements can work within the

code, like you keep the code to do the movements, keep the code ingrained, that's when I think of like some potential super athlete. But that's a total hypothetical, obviously. It's a total hypothetical. It's not something that's within the system. It's not something that people are doing because people are working within cemented systems.

But I don't know. I think that might be something that there can be some gain there. Yeah. You say some progression, use some of those things, but make sure that they stay go to within the, within your code, within your concepts.

Like how can we add this within the concept? So the athlete doesn't lose that ability to move. I feel like you're trying to get me to say, I'm not trying to get you to say anything. I know what I'm saying is, is like, I don't know to test that like that. I understand. You see what I'm saying?

Like, so I stay in my lane because the guy that comes in has been doing all of those things and he's hurt. I'm not getting a guy come in and say, hey, coach, I feel a thousand percent great today. I just did some naughty curls. I did some clean. Everybody comes in and when they're telling me their problems, I'm like, okay, tell me a day in the weight room for you. Tell me – like we're asking these – we're kind of doing our own little research

or study, and then most of it I don't even need to ask them because I could see it in the way that they walk in because I probably did a thousand evals. You know what I'm saying? Where I've seen a thousand people front-chain chain dominant and they all got hamstring issues. You know, so going and do a nautic curl is not going to save them from a hamstring pull. Didn't save me. I mean, I got really good at those and I pulled my hamstring. Part of that is because I wasn't doing a lot of sprints before, but I did pull my hamstring.

Right. So what happens is, but you was probably front chain dominant too. Oh, probably. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. It's ways that we've used to isolate muscles that don't fix the movement pattern because it even destroys the pre-movement before just the way they stand and the way that they rest and things like that. If I'm doing a nautic curl and I'm getting real good, I'm curving the back. The hips are going way forward and I'm pulling myself.

Yeah, I'm all into the front chain like that. Even though I'm using a hamstring muscle to pull it up, the motion, the movement, the behavior is a thrust. Chest, back, hips forward. It shortens the hamstring as it strengthens it. There is a way to do it front chain though. I was just thinking of what you mean. Back chain? Back chain. There is a way to do it back chain. If you do hinge forward and you hinge forward at

the hips and you lower yourself while being hinged rather than being erect and front chain and your hips are in full extension. If you hinge and you allow yourself to hinge and move forward, then the lowering aspect of it does become a back chain dominant movement. I mean, I'm just saying. This is just me thinking about what you're talking about. Or we could just do a drop. Or you could just – I get it. I get it.

And this is the thing. I want to be understood that I'm not trying to get you to say anything. I'm just trying to think about how can I marry some things. This is a selfish endeavor partially. But then I'm thinking trying to think about how can I marry some things. This is a selfish endeavor partially. But then I'm thinking of other athletes. If they want to take what you're doing and they're already doing something else, what can they do so that they can just get the best for themselves? Let me say this in all transparency. We got guys that come in that are still doing all that shit that feel way better when they add go to.

way better when they had go to if that's if that but but what i'm saying is is i don't i don't want to i don't want to tell you that i can protect you and you're doing those other things yeah and then you come do go to you feel great and then you go pull your hamstring again like so it's kind of like me not wanting to say that can you get away with it will it give you a better chance of surviving probably so but it don't mean that it's the way to go. I got you. And I'm not going to be the guy to do that research. Because then I'm dealing with somebody's career. Yeah.

I think with some of the stuff that we're learning and learning about the fascia and how it's all one big giant sack, basically, I think that when you're to look at some of these exercises, you can just think of like this kind of insults the system of the human body. Like when we're talking about like trying to have something translate into a sprint, right? Like, cause you could do, you could do Nordics and you can simply just not sprint and you won't have, you won't have to worry about it. You can have big hamstrings or hamstrings will be stronger. They'll be stronger in the Nordic. You know, there's things that we can still do.

We can still do stuff that we love in the gym. There's no reason why we have to completely dismiss them. But if you think about it, like just in terms of just pure logic of what we saw from that sprinter a sprint does not look any they don't look related in any capacity like at all because you got both hamstrings like in what instance are both hamstrings curling like that in any sport that you can possibly think of now i'm not saying that you take every single thing on the field and we encapsulate it we try to do that in the gym either it's just it's just an interesting like conjecture. Like you, you're flexing both hamstrings at the same time. That means both hips are doing the, like one hip. Exact same thing. Yeah. Both hips are

doing exact same thing. Normally there's opposition. You know, we have contralateral reciprocation when we're running. You go from one side to the other, you go from column to column and that just doesn't match up with any of that. So regardless of like my feelings or beliefs for when we're running. You go from one side to the other. You go from column to column. And that just doesn't match up with any of that. So regardless of my feelings or beliefs for it, I can just simply say I can see for sure that they don't match up at least from my vantage point. Think about this too. You're pushing when you're coming off the ground.

A lot of girls pulling. You're using the muscle two different ways. You know what I'm saying? So you're pushing and releasing where you're pulling and never releasing. So it sends a mixed signal to the brain. Now, how much of it, like I said, the microdosing part and things like that and how much of it can we add and stuff like that. Man, i don't

know i mean we're still gonna ride in cars we're still gonna sit in chairs we're still gonna wear bad shoes you know i i mean i i don't know now can we figure out ways to incorporate some of these things i think that's maybe where uh we don't we just don't know like could you do a staggered staggered stance deadlift could you do a staggered stance deadlift? Could you do a staggered stance Nordic? Could you do an isometric in a Nordic and say, hey, I think in SEMA, like this angle right here, I think this is going to help if we can hang out there and if we can corner while you're still in this Nordic position with your feet staggered. I mean, there's all kinds of things that we can start to come up with.

Yeah, I could put you in that split stance that I showed you out there, and we could get into the split stance, and you could kind of drop that chest down, set your bow, and when you feel a hamstring turn on, we could hold a plate to the chest and rep that bow, just a micro movement of, it's like little fractals. Yeah, you did it before. It's little fractals of the movement pattern. A lot of this stuff, too, that we're doing is bringing that kinesthetic awareness up

to where you'll hear people say, like, they got a weak glute. Or they not, like what happened with Andrew. Like he was saying, man, I can't find the glute in this exercise. Once he found it, he was good. He found a way to get it and wake it up or whatever. Same thing when we train in the hamstring. Because we could set the bow, get into the drop-in, load that column, stick that butt back, drop the chest a little bit, get the hamstring to turn on.

Once it's turned on, if we got a 45-pound plate to the chest and we in some kind of single leg, instead of doing a deadlift with it, we could just sit there and rep that bow shape up to where the inside ankle bone is going high as the butt's going down and the knee's going out but the hamstring's real active in the position and then you could do it in the corner too like the the corner is the release it's when the foot comes off the ground and then you're gonna be loading when you land on to the other side so as that that hamstring is accepting that load it's it's it's happening it catching everything, especially in the dig phase.

You know what I'm saying? Now, you'll see a lot of guys in the track world, when do they tear their hamstring? On the back end of the race. Whenever they get more upright and they're trying to do high knees and they're trying to pull and stuff like that is when you see the pull because that ain't how we're supposed to run. Like, you look at somebody like – even Tyreek Hill is a good example of looking

at somebody run from the front and the back. I think his training mixes the signals to the brain. So the body wants to protect itself just like you had the scap injury and it wants to close up. Same thing with the hamstring or whatever. If you start giving it some mixed signals, it's going to feel like the environment's not right. But when you saw, they got a picture of Randy Marsh running

and his butt's back. He's kind of, you know, he's in that. It looks like a drop in from the side or whatever. But it's like, there you go. You got Tyreek right there. He's amazing to watch. See how he sets a bow? That's not an auto curl.

So much. That's crazy. Do you see how much? He did the arm. That's sports science, huh? That's so cool. Watch how back and forth he goes from side to side. See, there's the extension, right?

We know that there's triple extension involved, but then when he runs, when they show him from the front and the back, there's the bow. That's dope. But that's not a triple extension exercise. There's not an exercise that matches that. I have a quick

question, and I don't want us to spend too much time on this. It's somewhat different. Do you guys work with fighters or grapplers? We have some that come in. So what I do is I don't get anything specific. I train you a certain way no matter who you are. So an NFL lineman, a running back, and stuff like that, a linebacker, I'll use the same, I'll do everything

the same. The guy that, remember, we do everything to failure, right? So when we attack in whatever exercise that it is, if I take you to failure and I'm going to get that strength component, it don't matter what position you play, because if you're on a tennis court, if you're on a football field, if you're on the golf course or wherever you're at, the foot and ankle behaves the same way. The hip is supposed to behave the same way. The knee is supposed to behave the same way. Back chain dominant applies to everything.

Everything. That's not a front. Now, wrestling, they'll use their hips a lot of times, and they'll thrust and shit like that. But technique-wise and things like that is where the coach comes in. Right. Like it don't, it's not for me to say,

Hey man, you need to grapple and you need to do this this way. It's for me to make sure that when you walk down the street, your body performs right. And let that manifest itself into the wrestling stuff. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. When it comes to some busted up athletes, maybe we can reference some for coaching and maybe you can give us some reasons on why you think they maybe ran into what they ran into. I'll start out with Tiger Woods because you were mentioning golf. Like he had a lot of knee

and I think a lot of back problems. Can you identify anything that you used to see from him or can you think of something? Well, he did that Navy SEAL training stuff. So he kind of went and he went like really out. Like when you think about him being a golfer as opposed to like, I mean, the stuff that they were doing was like a big mental test. And I think it was – I think he did those things because he could.

He did a lot of weights too, I think. Yeah, he did those things because he could. He did a lot of weights too, I think. Yeah, he did the weights. Golf is an interesting topic because there's a lot of injury in golf now. A lot, yeah. A lot. I eval Bubba Watson. And, you know, he's super duck-footed and front-chain dominant and all of that stuff.

And he was losing power at ball contact, and he just tore his meniscus. Shit. So he got hurt. Another one that I talked to was losing power at ball contact and he just tore his meniscus so he got hurt um another one that i talked to was brooks kepka and he he you know he had reached out to me he had shattered his kneecap i mean these guys are doing this stuff and then they go and they deadlift in and they're doing all kind of stuff like that so but golf's another one where you take them in you make them a great mover and it'll manifest itself in his game. Funny thing why you mentioned Tiger Woods is his son's a pure go-to. Really?

Yes. Wow. So what do you mean when you say that? It means he's straight foot, inside ankle bone high. When he swings a golf club, he's in his back chain. He opens, he sets the bow, he closes the bow. Head stays in the pressurized column. There's a lot of things in the golf industry.

I keep going. I know you had some other athletes you might want to bring up, but they started this lead leg block thing. There's a company for baseball called Driveline that what they do is it was this mathematician guy that came up with this concept of when you land, It was this mathematician guy that came up with this concept of when you land, you push back with the landing leg to create like this rotational force or whatever in the hips to throw the ball harder and stuff like that. Since then, you've seen an increase in – because what happens is if you could throw hard at the pro level, then we're going to pass that down to college.

So now we got these kids that can't set up. Like when you throw in a baseball, it's almost like you're walking down a mound, right? You load it up, you throw it, and you're moving towards the – Follow through. You follow through and all of that stuff. If the follow through, if you're not catching it in a bow in the front with the heel out the ground, and you're driving the heel in

and kicking this back, it's almost like you're training hyperextension on the front leg. And, I mean, you got pitches, Tanae Maniscus, Shredney Achilles, and things like that. So the things that always make us better don't always need – they don't always mean they're going to help us or there's going to be any kind of security inside of it. Yeah. I mean, that's obvious, right,

because we wouldn't be on this podcast right now if everybody was healthy and doing all the weight training and everything that they wanted to do. I mean, there's some things that's going on, but the level of accountability is, like I said, I've never talked to a strength coach, and I've never talked to a high school football coach, and I've never talked to a coach that said nobody. They all say the same thing.

Nobody gets hurt here. Where these statistics are coming from, man? Where these numbers are coming from? Why when I walk through the Andrews Institute in Dallas, I see tons of children coming in there with torn ACLs, elbow problems. And it's a sports recovery place. Everything adolescence in there. Every table's full.

You had some things to say about Conor McGregor. That was an interesting one. Yeah, with that picture that we had showed. Did I send you that one, Andrew? No. Is it on your Instagram? It might be somewhere else. It's kind of old, yeah.

Yeah, it's been around a little while but he starts off and you know the progression over the four pictures is he became more duck-footed hips forward and then he and listen he's kicking on people and things like that but he backsteps and he snaps a bone now somebody could say he did it in the kick but it's just coincidental that his stance changed that much. Because it could affect anatomical stuff because you're loading that bone against the way it should be loaded. Yeah. You know?

One of the reasons I brought up Tiger Woods is because he is one of the all-time greats. Great. But I think he wanted to play a little longer, and I think he wanted to win a couple more titles. And he is a guy that everybody looks to as like he lifted. You know, he lifted. He got bigger during his career.

So I think he's kind of a good example of somebody. I don't know if he could have done anything different. Well, think about this too. They don't ride in a cart in the PGA Tour. They walk the course. If you walk like shit at the end of 18 holes, you're probably going to be playing like shit. Yeah.

And they all water, tons of them. You know who's the guy that goes and he's just still playing and all? I don't think he gets hurt. It's John Daly. Oh, yeah. He's been addicted to everything. He'll tell you he's addicted to chocolate, Coke, McDonald's, real Coke. Like everything.

You know what I'm saying? Like he's addicted to everything. And he went through this depression phase and all. And he was on a podcast one day talking about, yeah, man, I went out and I got drunk all night. Me and so-and-so was snorting Coke and we was doing this, blah, blah, blah, and all of this stuff. And then I went the next day and shot one of the best golf games I ever shot

or something. Jordan was enough. When you – and I don't know. I never looked at John Daly's movement or anything like that. But it's like people go and invest all of this time and effort into something that's not protecting them. That's where – because if you're a great – dude, Bubba Watson is by no means some picture of like what you – he ain't going to go to the beach and girls are going to be like, oh.

You know what I'm saying? He's been playing for like 30 years or something, right? He's 40 years old, I think. Okay. Yeah, but the thing is, what's his name, Gary Player? He's a go-to. He's still playing. What about Kobe Bryant?

Kobe Bryant, kind of the same thing. Kobe was an amazing athlete. He did all the stuff that he needed to do, but he did have an Achilles rupture that he never came back from. Kobe moved pretty well. He kind of got into the way, because I think he worked out with Tim Grover, too, a little bit.

You know, Jordan had a meniscus at 39. You still got the obstacles of life. They sit on the bench. They sit on the chairs. They sit and wear the shoes and things like that. A lot of times what gets confused for people is when we say somebody, we use them in a video as an example of what the movement pattern should be. And then they come back and go, well, he had an Achilles tear years ago. That don't mean that he couldn't be a goater.

You know what I'm saying? Like he could have possessed it. And over time, you know, cause some problems. Because look, the basketball world is a lot of crossovers and stuff like that. So they get in these awkward loading positions a lot of time. But you go look at like John Morant. John Morant basically trained with his father, and he was this super freak athlete and mad hops and stuff like that.

And then he gets into the regular training environment and starts working out in these big name facilities and stuff like that. And then he has this mysterious hip injury. And, you know, these things start to show themselves a little bit. Whereas, like, I mean, this dude at Murray State was about as high level as you could get. Yeah. So along the way, he kind of loses it a little bit. And again, shoes, chairs, cars, all of that stuff, resting postures all play a role in it but i just say like you know between 25 and 29 years old in professional sports you see a ton of soft tissue

stuff and things like that and it's like it would be a horrible joke by god to let you live to 100 years old and the tissue inside of your body break down when you're 29 yeah you know what i'm saying like that that wouldn't that wouldn't be right. It's also important to point out with Kobe that he was, you know, he was playing in the NBA at a really, really young age. And that he played for, I don't even know, 20. 20 years. Yeah, like, so that's. Yeah, them dudes are high level.

That's a fucking hell of a career. Think about this. I mean, think about any sport. Think about the backup, the second string right tackle for the Philadelphia Eagles, if he could stay on a roster for 20 years, he'd be a multimillionaire. You know what I'm saying? Like it ain't about – it's not always about – I think health as well. Your best availability – I mean your best ability is availability.

Yeah. So, you know, they got all these little corny little phrases and stuff like that, but they really do mean something. What about someone like Fred Warner? Fred Warner? 49ers. I want to say you guys did a video on him, though.

I might have. He tore something? I just know he was inside ankle bone low. Yeah. I could pull it out, though. Go pull his injury history. Well, while he's looking for that, you mentioned some interesting stuff about LeBron

because LeBron is one of those people who's like, he talks about those sexy feet, first off, but he also talks about that he works on his body all the time. He gets injuries here and there, but he's on. He's going to be the most healthiest. He is one of the, like, he seems to be the healthiest, one of the healthiest athletes in the NBA, and he's had a long career. Yeah.

So what do you see about him? The soft tissue injury is because of the way that he moves. Yeah. I mean, because, like I said, he's got the greatest access and most resources to protect his body, right? Mm-hmm. He has more genetic potential, I believe, than any human being that's ever graced the earth. Maybe Simone Biles. She's somebody that's high, high level.

Maybe Serena might be another one that's high genetic. But if LeBron could move like a Ja Morant or a Michael Jordan or somebody like that, I think he wouldn't be letting the NBA. They would have to blackball him, dude. They'd have to get him out of there and not let him play. Just a video game character at that point. Yeah, I mean, he would be like, you take Jordan and LeBron and put them together, and it's like, could you imagine this human being?

take Jordan and LeBron and put them together and it's like, could you imagine this human being? Somebody that would be that big, that strong, and finesse like that? I mean, I like LeBron. I think he's great. I think he's a great example of

he's got like a human side to him that he gives. I believe if you don't give it, you can't keep it. And you see that happen a lot in the sports world where these guys get caught up. You know, I mean, it just happened with the Ruggs guy drinking and driving 189 miles per hour on the Vegas Strip. Like, who you with?

Like, I don't even – I see that dude staggering to the car. I'm not letting him get in. Me and him is going to get in a fight and get arrested out there. I can't let you do that to yourself, knowing who you are. You know what I'm saying? And it's like not only there's some lack of accountability there, but there's also a lack of, man, you got to check your friends sometimes. Like, you know, we all make mistakes and put ourselves in bad situations,

but, like, collectively we making bad decisions like that? Like, no. But LeBron's – I like LeBron. A lot of people don't. Some people don't. I think most of it's because of his success. Yeah. But, you know, I think he's kept his nose clean.

You know what I'm saying? Meaning, like, he don't get in no trouble. Yeah. You know, he was very mature at a young age, I feel like. I think there's a lot of pressure that comes along with that. That, you know, I mean, he had the situation in Cleveland with

Delonte West and all of that stuff. And, you know, it's he handled himself well through the whole thing. And he could have went a whole thing. And a lot, he could have went a different way. All right.

And you want to take us on out of here? Sure thing. Thank you everybody for checking out today's episode. We gave you guys plenty of things to comment about. So please drop those comments down below in the comment section. Let us know what you guys think about today's episode and subscribe. If you guys are not subscribed to make sure you guys hit that like button on the way out.

Please follow the podcast at MB power projectject on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. My Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter is at IamAndrewZNSima. Where you at? If you guys are interested, go to the Discord. The community over there is popping. We're over 1,600 members. Everyone's helping keep each other accountable. And you guys see now, right?

I don't hate Gota. What? That's the running joke since you guys came here. And whenever I talk about it people like and sema hates goda like no sema doesn't hate goda and sema's just trying to understand how to marry shit i don't hate goda it's dope what was really like funny though is like he he was sick when you guys were here and then when david weck was here i was sick so i couldn't do like any of the movements you're the one that does more go to probably yeah so after every episode

where it comes up me and sema get in a big old fight. So it's been a lot of fun. I win the fight every time, but, you know, we get in fights. He wins the physical side. I win the mental. Well, you don't win. I'll let you have it. At Nsema Indy on Instagram and YouTube.

At Nsema Yining on TikTok and Twitter. Gary, where can they find you? At GLS underscore training on Instagram and Twitter. And then it's just Gary Sheffield on Facebook. But I think we got a GLS Next Level Performance page on there. But gotomovement.com, redpillrick on Instagram. Gotomovement.com will take you everywhere. That's the best place.

Recode 225 is our website where you can go on there and get your little package and test out GOTA in the privacy of your own home. And you don't have to tell your friends that you're doing it. And Seema's got a lifetime. Remember, Chevy just don't want anybody to know. Yeah, no,

I'm about to get that membership. We talked about this shit. I want to understand this. So yeah, you all know. Yeah. Yeah. One or two things that people can kind of take from this show or take from

you and start to put into practice right away. The groundwork. Anything they could do to get on the ground, crisscross applesauce, resting postures, things like that can help a lot. It's going to be possibly uncomfortable in the beginning. But if you give it some time and you hang in there with it, it'll, it'll, you know, some people that helps overnight. There's a lot of videos on YouTube showing some of that. And some of that's with, with you and I together. Yep. YouTube page, go to movement.

And there's one GLS performance team to go to universe page. That's not ours, but there's the, the go to movement page and GLS Performance team is the two YouTube pages that we have. Awesome. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.