Mark Bell's Power Project - Graham Tuttle "The Barefoot Sprinter", Running, Foot Health and BJJ || MBPP Ep. 907

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

In this Power Bite, Graham Tuttle, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about various minimalist and barefoot shoes and their benefits, strengthening your feet as well as Grahams recent move to Sacramento, starting Jiu Jitsu and how he is evolving as an athlete.   Follow Graham on IG: https://www.instagram.com/thebarefootsprinter/   New Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://hostagetape.com/powerproject Free shipping and free bedside tin!   ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM   ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject to save 15% off Vivo Barefoot shoes!   ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements!   ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off!   ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order!   ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori!   ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep!   ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off!   ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en    Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz Stamps: 00:00 - Expand Opportunities 04:52 - What does BJJ teach you mentally 12:53 - Relax while rolling in BJJ 15:36 - Sprint workouts for BJJ 17:51 - Strength to weight ratio 21:40 - Handling BJJ pain as Newbies 24:21 - Science of a Takedown 27:10 - BJJ Therapy 29:53 - Breathing techniques for BJJ 32:18 - Breathing and running 35:52 - White belt mentality 38:33 - Lower your expectations 42:29 - Graham's Running form 44:56 - Do you think about form while running 51:01 - Were your inputs deserving of a PR 54:28 - Practice required to make you expert 59:22 - Capacity forgotten due to Technology 1:02:47 - Change noticed doing BJJ 1:06:16 - Pain discovery process 1:11:28 - Explore different options but don't STOP exercise! 1:18:18 - Benefits of BJJ - Just START!! 1:20:45 - What gave Graham confidence to move across the country 1:29:02 - Things that worked well for Graham 1:33:04 - Fascial Maneuver do wonders 1:35:28 - Value & Belief Matters 1:43:59 - Have Multidimensional approach 1:44:40 - Work through pain of change 1:49:00 - Shoes recommendation by Graham 1:54:16 - Training vs racing shoes 1:55:39 - TRY Jump roping barefoot 1:58:41 - Cleats increase risk injuries 2:12:21 - Way to connect with Graham 2:12:20 - Outro   #barefoot #barefootrunning #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

Power Project family, how's it going? Today we have Graham Tuttle, aka the Barefoot Sprinter on the podcast once again. He moved here last year to Super Training Gym and he's been doing a lot of stuff with us, but we go in on the feet today. And a lot of other stuff, but obviously we talk a lot about feet.

And also, why am I holding this baby? Because the Power Sandal is back in stock. We sold out of these last year, thanks to you guys. It's the Barefoot Sandal we made in partnership with Shama Sandals. So head to Power Project Live to check them out. Goes up to size 14 for you Bigfoot guys and enjoy the episode. You're off the list. Uninvited. Graham Tuttle, how are you doing, buddy? I couldn't be better. It's a beautiful rainy day in Northern California.

What's been going on? We haven't had you on in a while. How are you doing? in Northern California. What's been going on? We haven't had you on in a while. How are you doing? So since this time a year ago, I fell in love with one of the people that works for you and moved out here. Well, that happened fast.

Jesus Christ. You move quick. I do. It's the sprinter thing. See what happens, sprint in the direction, and then move past it. Sprint random simplicity. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and then move past it. Sprint right in some pussy.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know. Blindsided, yeah. Where's the mug? And you're doing jujitsu too. Yeah. So let's just say the last year has been very humbling. I think a big reason I wanted to expand, I had some opportunities come up.

Most of the business was online and come out and hang out with you beautiful people and realize that you don't want to be, well, I didn't want to be a big fish in a small pond and so moved out. Just the people that come in and out of this place and also being able to travel and meet a lot of people. Very humbling. So, I mean, just starting jujitsu. I've got

58 classes and notched on the old bedpost. Yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah, it's rolling with the team is classes and notched on the old bedpost. That's a big deal. Yeah. Rolling with Nsema is impossible. It's yeah. He doesn't wear a rash guard. So he doesn't look

at you. He just looks elsewhere at his eyes. I'll look at you. I don't know if I want that actually. I do look at you though sometimes just on occasions like yeah but he just goes in and like he starts moving and he like he uses his body weight to press into you until like this is large slowly press into you let's just press convex cleavage of masculine what uh encouraged you to try jujitsu. And this is an interesting – how many people are – oh, God. I mean it's an experience.

It's something else. Well, so – and this is the thing. It's funny because I hear people talk at class like, oh, did you compete? Did you do this? And I realize, oh, this is a sport just like tennis. Like I want to go play tennis and we just like practice the drill and then we like play back and forth. And I'm like, oh, that's what people do here. Like I want to be more confident so i've thought a lot about this because i was pretty soft as an individual just emotionally i didn't really

have a lot of like challenges growing up and a lot of the people that seem to do great things have very difficult things like take david goggins life and then like the opposite of that it was me you know it's like okay so there's you never got in a fight. You know, there's a lot of this, like deep down, didn't feel very confident. My girlfriend could still beat me up. So, I mean, it's, I'm still working on it. She's just, it's because you let her. Well, I like it. Say you're into it.

Don't tell her that, but I play hard to get. But I, there's something about it where it's like I feel personally as a man identifying as one. I feel like there's something about being able to physically like defend yourself or do something. Yeah, for real. So like my sole purpose of jujitsu is to feel more confident about myself, which has definitely worked because – I mean even within the first four classes, like if I were to go in from zero to four, it was just – there's a different poise. Like, oh, you're going to do the thing. Like, OK, I'm not totally just taking it back.

And now the hard part is that if you go and think you're going to get this like boost – I forget who said it. It was like Hodger Gracie, which is another name I can't say. Hodger Gracie. Hodger Gracie. Yeah, there you go. You just said it. It was Hojirig Gracie, which is another name I can't say. Hojirig Gracie. Hojirig Gracie. Yeah, there you go. You just said it. There you go. But he was saying that like someone made the comment that every time you get better at jiu-jitsu, the people you're doing it with are also getting better.

So it's not like running or lifting weights. It's like I got 10 pounds stronger. It's like I got 10 percent better, but you got 10 percent better. And so I still feel like I'm – I still feel like every time I finish, I'm like, I got beat up. But there's something about physically being roughed up that feels good in a weird way. And it's something you come out like – not rashes, but like when you rub on your – Yeah, rash guard. Geeburn. Yeah, like they get that and I walk away.

It's like, Earl Black Eye. His's like, you're a black guy. His team is, give me a black guy. Black guy? I'm joking. You said black guy. Black guy, give me a black guy. A little bit like fight club. I want to ask you two this.

You and Andrew, since you guys are like in this zone where you both recently started, because it's been a while since I felt like, felt what you're talking about right now. But large, large cleavage rubbing in your face. But what type of difference has happened with you guys mentally? Because when you start jujitsu, if you're going to a place with a lot of good upper belts, you're going to consistently just get beat up by almost every single person you choose to roll with, right?

Because almost everyone's better than you. And then you go back and you get more of it done, right? How has that changed you guys in any way? You want to go first sure i mean i'm not looking at everybody and you know sizing everyone up and being like i could probably take that guy i could probably take that guy but like in the situation where we were in the mall and some crazy guy came up to me and my family i was able to kind of be like chill and calm and understand that like if shit did get a little bit weird, like there's no way this out of shape guy can do anything to me. So having the confidence of just like being in close quarters with other bigger, stronger men that are like better at grappling than me and then realizing like, whoa, these guys are actually the very, very, very like small minority of the population.

So like when I'm out and about, like I do feel a little bit more confident, like exactly what you were just saying. Whereas before I didn't have that, I don't know how I would have reacted before jujitsu. I think I would have probably more of like tried to just like, Oh, let's get away, get away, get away. Instead of like, you need to stop, you know, being able to have that confidence to tell somebody like, stop, you're, you know know you're being rude right now or forgot exactly what i said but that's kind of that's what that's the first thing that comes to mind right there you know again i'm not like i know jiu-jitsu so i could take anybody out you

know i'm not looking for a fight yeah but in that moment where shit got a little real i was able to just calm stay calm and suppress the whole situation where nothing happened. And thank goodness nothing happened. I would have rather had that more than, oh, dude, I took some dude down on the wall. I'm like, fuck no. There's no way I would want that to happen. That's awesome. So it's been interesting because I think – do you think – I could tell the story about the butt slap story. I could say that for a different time.

Just don't say the name. Yeah, just don't say the name. There's been two things I've learned. And one is that this last year has been so humbling because you get around people who are so smart. I've got to meet some of the smartest coaches, some of the best things. And you kind of like you have this like I had a lot of undeserved self-esteem about like I'm good. You imagine the world to be this like perfectly soft, healthy, wonderful place where everyone is nice. But there's a lot of like – it's like, oh, they wouldn't rob my car.

People – and there's a hard – it's a balance between thinking like the best of people and also realizing that there's like an animalistic nature in a sense. And there's been a lot of realizing in the sense that you physically like things can hurt like if you've never been punched before it's like okay you realize you go and you roll and it's like oh it's fun this is a guy who i have nothing but respect for i absolutely love this guy and so you know going into class one day um i walk in and saying hi and i just slap him on the butt like hey man i slap him on the button give him a hug because like you know a little bit like that's just i don't maybe in the grand subtle way it was like the most loving thing if i just like hey man you know locker room stuff yeah let me ask you this how long have you known him before that uh this was like for 10 first 10

classes first 12 classes but he had he had shown me we had done the technique like a week before and i was like he's my friend fresh our friends not food like that kind of thing i was like and so i'm like oh i can tell a little bit he goes like that just a little i'm like oh that's interesting whatever so the butt slap wasn't the most comfortable thing for him i suppose not yeah you know so we go and later on i'm like, hey, you want to roll? So like basically for those who don't know because that would have been me like a year ago, you do like this warm-up for 15 minutes and you do like 30 or 40 minutes of technique and then you roll. And they do like six-minute rolls or at least at Casio's gym.

They do six-minute rolls and you do like six rounds. So you're kind of like – it's like if I could have the skill now, I could go back to high school and ask Andy to roll a dance because now it's you walk up, hey, you want to roll with me? And it's like there's no different. But they walk up, hey, you want to roll with me? And it's like, there's no different. But they're like, hey, you want to roll with me? And I'm telling you, I have never been just, I'm talking smothering. Like there's the thing where you grab the gi, which is like these fancy pajamas, and

you like pull in and he put his knee in there for six minutes. I am like, I can't breathe. I am just dying. And I'm like, I can't,'t you know he taps and then immediately going back into it like i tapped like six times it was like four or six times in six minutes and it was oppressive i was like oh my like i've never felt so like smashed before also i mean obviously the man didn't injure you he he did this in a very nice way but he smothered the fuck out of you yeah yeah so but you know i'm like was there like weird energy too i could just tell that this is like

this man's gonna murder me or something i didn't want to make sure not only did he not get slapped on the ass again he did it for all the other men there too i suppose so so you know moral of the story if there is one so we finish and i was like and i'm you know i'm like crawling the next thing i think i'll grow within semen next which is a great thing because my heart rates to the roof and i'm like can't Seam's like, just calm down, bro. There's nothing that makes me feel worse than I'm dying and he goes, your breathing is too heavy.

Relax. You're on top of me, okay? It's not easy. You're really good. I'm not. This is hard. I can't fucking breathe. You hurt my feelings. Oh, God. I remember that day.

Where's my mommy? I just have the whole time. Keep breathing, you Harvey. Just relax. Just relax. I'm like, you weigh 250 pounds. Anyways, so I get told that. And so then at the end, I'm like, hey, man, everything okay?

You just seemed a little upset. And he goes, and this is a moral, but he goes, you know, to be honest um i didn't appreciate when you slapped my ass it goes um he's dead serious oh uh i meant that in the most kind loving way possible and so but like the point is he talked about it he was straight up and that was it like literally like he did something i did something he didn't like and as a little white belt walking in you know it's like a little bushy-tailed, bright-eyed new freshman. It's like I don't deserve – like there's a pecking order that you earn your way into to be able to have a relationship. You mentioned that it would have been OK if you bought him dinner? You know what?

At that point, I was like, yes, sir. No, sir. Please. I have another. And so I walked away and I was like that was one of the most valuable lessons I've ever gotten because it's like the world – like you go into something. Yeah, you don't know him. You don't know him that well. Exactly.

It's just a guy that you see at jujitsu and took a liberty with that. And so – but within that, it's like everything. If you go out and surfing, like you will get – I did try to – I didn't even get on the board. But like I sat – I've been in the ocean for four hours trying to surf and you get smacked. And there's a lot of this like kind of uninformed naivety that I walk into, which is part of my charm and affect. But at the same time, like it puts you at a place where you are liable to like not see the reality of what's happening. And so that was one of the most humbling things where it's like, hey, you have to earn your – you have to like show up and be able to like walk the walk in a sense. And so we talked about it in the week after that.

We just were able to flesh it out. And like, I've rolled with him multiple times since nothing but love and respect for this guy. Like it's one of the most valuable things. He loves you. He loves you. But I'm telling you that was like,

so in that sense, there was a, um, like being around people that are just really world-class or really skilled or just have experience of beyond what you've done. Like that's been my experiences last year, which just reinforces the fact that there's like you don't like you may think you know a lot but you just don't know like you don't even know what you don't know and

so there's like it's there's a lot of that i don't know like informed formed knowledge and knowing at this point so that's been one piece which is like you go in and you know it the it's it's a lot like surfing is i don't have to go in like i go in and someone else is going to impose their will in a sense so it's like being able to like hold and not just yield so quickly like one of the lessons and this is the other part the thing that's been helpful for me and i don't know if this is just how i'm wired but i tend to like find a deeper metaphysical reason for everything i'm a very good meaning making thing even if there's no reason whatsoever um very good at telling stories. But you always say this too.

It's like kind of relax. And Aaron Alexander, this is the statement that it's – I'm like two notches above chill. And there's a little bit of like everyone is like relax, relax. It's like you hold tension. And like now I haven't kind of done it for a little while. I can say if I roll against like Julian or you or some of the higher belts, I'm like, oh, there's just like this – there's this soft yet like testing yielding. Like they're moving and they're letting you do the stuff.

But the second there's like – they can immediately firm up. And Kador Ziani was here last week and I have – he embodied this in a way I've never seen before. Like the man, he's talking about the tables. Like you trust your bones in a sense. And so he laid – If you guys haven't because it will come up right before this. But we did a kind of in-gym podcast with Kador,

and he kind of explained some of the things you're about to mention here. So if you guys haven't, check that out. Yeah, and it'll be YouTube only. YouTube only. YouTube only. That fucking guy's so strong, too. Well, and that's the thing is that, like,

so I kind of had the way I visualized it was like, if you look at, like, a scale of one to ten, ten is, like, maximal, like, contracted, like, tensile, like, plyometric, like, hit the ground, like, ten is like maximal, like contracted, like tensile, like plyometric. I hit the ground. Like I'm max sprinting and then one would be like completely chill, relaxed, asleep. I realized like I tend to – I think most people do. But like if the chill, like I'm just – I'm here.

I'm relaxed. It's like maybe – It's like the term heart rate variability. You have this variability within your body to go from being super strong or fast or explosive to being totally loose and relaxed. Yeah. And so like, I tend to, let's say chill is like necessary, maybe like a zero or one or two or three on that. But it was like, I kind of float between like four to six where like, because I'm kind of always a little bit of tension and like I hold that in my spine, like deep core muscles. And like there's, I'm never just fully just like chill in a sense. And I watched him, he just laid

on the side, just lay down and just sank. And it was as though every essence of tension in his body melted. And the man just like – it's like when you look – not so much dogs because I think dogs are domesticated at the point. But like cats, if you look at like a big cat and you see the way they just kind of like – they just – they walk and their shoulder blade sticks back and it's like their skin. But then the second they flex, it like but i seen that so that that the other part is like you just can't out force like there's just things like for example like you go and you see a blue belt that like they're a lot of tension like you could just feel like i can feel like i like we we tap the the bump the knuckles knuckles and then we go and i'm like i can just feel that you're like uncertain nervous and you're gonna try and hurt

me because you don't know what to do and it's like there's a little bit of that i'm like I can just feel that you're like uncertain, nervous, and you're going to try and hurt me because you don't know what to do. And it's like there's a little bit of that. I'm like, OK. Here we go. All right. But like that piece of just being able to relax because what I think is valuable about that, and this is kind of the sprinting thing, is that I've done a lot of the strength training and work on the stuff. And it's like there's something that feels like there's a block in terms of my capacity to do elastic explosive athletic things and so i look at cador and he you know can go from like the most relaxed just completely present and fully trusting the environment to the next second

jumping kicking something a basketball out of the rim in a sense and so like it just seems to me that the more you can learn to kind of trust that bone, so to speak, then you can also increase the contractile, like, fascial tension where he just, like, hits the ground and, like, pops. And you probably have seen the Maasai tribe. There's, like, very skinny African kids in the red garb that, like, hit the ground. And they're just, like, fucking springs. I'll see if I can find that. It's – oh, my God. Type in African – sorry.

Type in African is jumping. I'll look for it in the text there because that one was really, really good. Masai, M-A-S-S-A-I, yeah. But when you see that there's something about this. There's one clip where there's this white – and it looks like a trainer or like a – no, like a tour. That's the one I'm looking for. Like a tourist or something. He goes and jumps and he sees moving his arms.

And I keep going back to this thing is like you know what i'm inspired to do and so a lot of the guys that i it seems that are successful in terms of like the hybrid athletes and doing the stuff there's there's like maybe two categories there's the grinding and david goggins like and you know uh fergus and all these guys who have uh like i can literally name off 10 if i could remember names but they they can there's like the not quitting thing where they just keep going and going and going. And that's not easy by any means. It's like a whole different level. But there's something about that like the human effort is just, you know what?

We got to – do you want to run a marathon? Well, like the only way to get home is go 26 miles. And people are like, all right, we're going to do that, right? Yeah, that one. It's just like the legs. They're just – they're bounding and it's like the ground is made out of something and they can't even control it like and this is me but probably a little bit better than me that's also probably most of us yeah and so that's what i go

and you know i don't know it's a hypothesis i have no idea how to like well i have small some ideas but i do think that the way to get to that is to be more like kadador and just this like trusting in a sense because there's – they're having fun. They're playing. They're not even using their arms. This is something I've had kind of a theory on for quite some time is this strength to weight ratio being like probably the most important thing when it comes to health and never really talked about. never really talked about, but you're, it's, it's kind of why like there's some power lifters that are pretty, pretty heavy. Um, but they can still live a long prosperous life and have kind of higher levels of body fat. It's not the healthiest thing in the world, but their strength to their weight ratio is still intact. But when that gets compromised,

because your joints get messed up, uh, or just, you know, kind of old age or inactivity or something like that. That's when you're really screwed. So people still need to pay attention to their weight. But I think your strength to weight ratio really lies at the bottom of – or the top of just supreme health. But that's where it gets to – the jiu-jitsu has been a valuable lesson. It's like one of the first changes that happened in a sense and i do realize that in some sense the the contractile compressive forces i generate in jujitsu may be counterproductive to this i don't know it's just one big hypothesis but i like i think that it doesn't have to be i

think that's part of it like it teaches you to relax in a sense because when you were under a 250 by the way check this out this is darius clark oh he's a dunker um but look like he's still like squatting a little bit more than they were but he also who knows how high it looks like he's squatting because he bends the knees when he comes up uh one observation here though is that this guy seems to be quite a bit heavier yeah um he is you know what i mean like he probably weighs 30 pounds more um but yeah look at the way he can – remember DK Metcalf? You guys seen that video where he catches the ball and they throw the ball way over his head? Oh, yeah.

What the fuck was that about? I thought that was a fake video. I thought it was too. I'm not sure. Maybe it was. I don't know. Because it looks amazing. I'm not saying it wasn't like half or like 70 percent real.

Yeah, I understand. So one of the things – you look how high his calf – like the length of his Achilles and that like tendon. It's like – this is a small calf belly but because it's leveraged up higher. And I do wonder – There's a term we have for that, black man calves. Well, then you look at the opposite. Like a lot of black – like if you look at basketball players and even a lot of black athletes, you'll see that they do have higher –

Like a high calf insertion. Yeah, just a genetic thing. Maybe it makes for like a longer tendon or something. Yeah, more of the force. And so then you look at the opposite, which would, just a genetic thing. Maybe it makes for like a longer tendon or something. Yeah, and more of the force. And so then you look at the opposite, which would be like a cankle. Like it's a lot of powerlifters walk in and it's like their calf. It is a thick tree trunk in a sense.

There was a famous – I'm going to get fired too. But there was a famous – Why is that offensive? There was a famous sports celebrity guy that was trying to say that he thought that black people had an extra muscle or extra tendon in their leg. He got fired for that? Yeah. That's so sad. It was like, I mean, it was like, I don't know, probably 30 years ago. I think it's Jimmy the Greek.

He may have said something else. He probably phrased it in a different way. He may have said something else. He might have said something worse. Was there a word in there? I don't, yeah. I don't believe so, but who knows. But ultimately. But some people do have actually like weird extra muscles.

But there's a popliteus, which is like 30 percent of the population has that muscle in the calf, which I could see mixing your crossfire – not that. Crossing your hairs. Whatever. Skip that. Edit that one out. that um edit that one out but i do wonder it's like in some capacity because i want to be like i want to work on the skills that's that you can either you can't do like for example like i really want to be able to be competitive at a 400 meter sprint and that doesn't happen from just like there's there's a change in my body that has to happen and so in some sense the lesson i'm

learning from jujitsu is like when you're under a 250 pound nigerian king it's just like you know you're you have to you have to move like there's this rib get i know andrew had this too like the ribs and like this deep core musculature for starting to get some motion in the spine just being under pressure and rolling and moving it was weeks let's actually go into that real quick because again both of you guys are it's so great the position you're in being so new because there are certain growing pains when it comes to jiu-jitsu that like I don't remember. And I think a lot of new people in the audience who are starting jiu-jitsu can probably relate. So what are some of the things that you've noticed that like are weird pains, changes that are happening in your body, ways that you've had to adjust so that you could improve? Well, I've got hair growing in places now.

My voice is getting deeper and I think my testicles are trapped a little bit. They got a little bit bigger. The same thing that we both had at like very similar times too. It was like it's – I thought it was like at first a rib thing because I felt it in the front. But then as it like started, I don't know what happened. It started to go away and then all of a sudden it was just stuck in the back anytime i laid just simply laying down on the bed it was like oh like this is actually kind of this hurts did breathing hurt breathing um not like sneezing sneezing sneezing and coughing absolutely breathing was like pretty chill unless i like

like really tried to be like dramatic with it to get it to hurt um i was trying so many different things i was rolling on my stomach i was rolling on my back um that that hook thing that we have here worked really well that was it i was able to really dig in there kelly surrett was telling me something yeah there you go thank you uh kelly surrett was telling me to do a couple of different things nothing was really really working though and it was very frustrating. I'm like, I just, I need to figure this out. But then it just went away? So I took a full month off of like live rolling.

I just did drills, which was very hard. It was probably harder than actual freaking rolling because you have to be pretty disciplined to wake up early and go do that, knowing that you're not going to have that much fun. Well, it's all fun, but the real fun is like, you know, when you get to do technique and then you get to practice it um so that was really tricky but i took a whole month

off of like having another you know man on top of me compressing me and me like you know being tense and trying to push someone off yeah and then it just kind of dissipated and went away yeah and then it started to come back and then i got sick so i took another week off and then it was it's thankfully it hasn't come back since then um i think it's just the combination of being so tight and like having everything compressed because we're used to power lifting where it's like and go and so i would i would do that and then what happened is like it felt like something it nothing popped but it felt like a balloon popped, you know,

like where it's like too much pressure and it's like, dude, it's gotta go somewhere. Yeah. So there's that. And then of course the new, um, experiences of being on my side and my knee,

like to my chin while trying to push, like, you know, all these weird new, uh, positions that I had never experienced before. You know, what's interesting real quick.

Um, and we're all going to be, you guys, if you have more, Andrew, go on it. But the ability, like Graham was mentioning, to relax. But like you were mentioning, when you're lifting in the gym, the whole messaging is always, okay, get tight, go down up. When you're deadlifting, get tight. Everything's get tight. When you get into jujitsu, you don't want to be flexing when somebody's on top of you. You don't want to be flexing your core. You don't want to be flexing your core when you have someone's knee on your belly. You kind of want to relax a little bit.

And if you've never done that, obviously most people have never done that before, never been in those situations. You can see how much distress would be in your ribcage. And the reason why I'm thinking about this is because yesterday Mason did this takedown on me. And we were – the takedown, we ended up being midair and then all his weight just slammed down on top of my body. And he was like, sorry. I'm like, no, you're good. But I was like, wait up. I just got like slammed.

Like we were midair and his whole body just came and popped me on the ground. But we just popped right back up. The reason – and I was like, damn, that actually didn't hurt at all. But it didn't hurt because we're both used to handling somebody else's force and dissipating that force. I can fall and break fall and dissipate the force evenly through my body. So it's not just all in here. Right. That's something you learn how to do.

And when you were talking, I was like, oh, shit, that's why that shit didn't hurt. That's wild. So, yeah, like, you know, again, with like lower back issues or whatever, I'm always taught like, oh oh stay stay tight so that way it doesn't like dislodge it and go like a weird uncomfortable position so i've always been like but the analogy that i had talked to you about over the phone it was like um you guys ever tried it like as well whatever age like try to break a tree branch that's like super healthy and like green like you can bend the fuck out of that and it's not gonna break but if it's a dry and old brittle branch it just snaps right away and so that's kind of like how i feel like you need to

be like the healthy green branch as opposed to the like the stern stiff like dry branch because that one obviously i mean thankfully i didn't crack anything but like it put me out for a month and that sucked yeah because i found something that i loved and i couldn't do it and i was like i can't wait to get back. It was really frustrating. If you have to think about it, it's already a problem. It's probably too late if you're thinking, oh, shit, I need to relax. Like someone that's proficient, they probably don't even – probably be very, very rare that they're thinking that they need to relax.

And if they did, then that probably meant somebody pushed them to a point where they weren't relaxed. Right? You know what's interesting? And Graham, don't forget what you're about to say. There are some people, like I've rolled with upper belts who still haven't gotten the handle

on being able to relax when they roll. I've rolled with people who are upper belts that they're still like this because maybe no one's ever talked to them about that. And you can go through and you can get a black belt. Maybe it's worked for them. Maybe.

Well, they haven't run into the right person or something. That's, they definitely, yeah. Take them out. That's the thing though. They have like like and but the thing is no one maybe some people like you there are some people you see like fucking mika gavau canin duarte this guy tainan daupra you see the way they move they're so flowy they can just move and swirl into different

positions um but there are other people that they're just so jerky or whatever and they're not relaxed that like, yeah, they've advanced because they've been doing it for such a long time, but they don't move nearly as well as these other guys because they don't know how to relax. So the interesting thing is you can progress and get a black belt without ever learning the concept of being able to kind of just let your body flow. Well, I think there's two parts of that, which is there's the therapy part of like I think that's what he's talking about. The jujitsu is like being like just physically enmeshed in like I have to survive this moment.

And like that is healing when you get out of that. You're like, oh, that's what you really miss. Like the fun part is like, you know, OK. And then you finished 40 minutes later. You're like, oh, everything just feels like right about the world in a sense. And the other side is like I think the relaxes – there's like the belief side, like the – I don't know how you call it, the spiritual side. But like the intangible side of just like a physical knowing, like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But then there's also the – like the practice that you have to do to see that come through to fruition.

I think that's the hard part is like they've probably been told that. But like this posture of like contraction and tension is a – it's like outward facing posture it's like everything around the world like i don't feel safe therefore i have to hold on to like whatever it is like if i'm tense it's because i don't feel i don't trust to be able to relax in this moment in a sense and so it's hard to do when you're at a high like someone is actually pressed like as mark saying like if you're at a point like by the time you have to remind someone, it's already too late for them to have heard that. But if they take that and sit with it, this is the thing I think valuable because I have very much similar – I don't know if it's just getting the tissue to move in there or like it's a response of just the pressure, just taking time off. But it's always worked out.

Like if I travel, it went away for a week or something like that. It just – I was like I didn't worry. Like I've just – two times a week for the last whatever, eight – it started in May last year. But like two times a week is every time I've been here. And if I travel, I didn't worry about it. And it almost always linked up to like traveling. I was like, oh, OK. Like that thing just went away because I just didn't push it.

I've seen some guys that were going to go in there, going to go every day and push it and then like they disappear after a month or two. And it's like – so I think there's something to be said for that because it is – while you can understand the lesson, it takes time for you to put that in and it's not just a like, oh, do it in jiu-jitsu. I think there's a lot of this like are you forcing everything? Are you mad about it? Are you resentful? It's the breathing but it's like you think about what it is that sets your breathing. It's like your intention sets your attention. Your attention sets your breathing.

Your breathing sets your physiology. So what you intend on, meaning I go into, if I have no intention, then whatever just gets my fight or flight thing is going to like, okay, and I'm stressed and my stress sets my breathing. My breathing sets my physiology. So I get tense. Yeah, that's, that's, that's true. But like for most people who aren't adept at breathing through their nose, when it comes to a lot of this, the intention will have to be, I am going to breathe through my nose for these sessions. I'm going to have to be concentrating on that even when things get bad because that's not a natural thing so like for a while you're gonna have to keep your eye on your breathing yeah until it becomes something that you can do passively and that relaxed breathing will then inform the way that you moved in more of a relaxed way not not totally but it will make a difference going like versus

that makes a huge difference. Have either one of you guys done a contact sport before? I'm telling you, I'm soft. I'm as white as the pale and fresh and soft as the day comes. No, not even football. Like just soccer, basketball, baseball. I did one season of football. It's rare unless

you're in some sort of contact sport and you don't even get that much of it when you're in certain sports. It depends on what you're in. But you obviously get a large doses of it from something like wrestling or jiu-jitsu. Your breathing is going to be compromised because it's a sport and the sport is very difficult. Everybody knows how much conditioning wrestlers do, like collegiate wrestlers and high school wrestlers. Those are some of the most well-conditioned people. They do a lot of stuff to stay in shape for that sport.

But they're not only breathing hard, but they have to deal with somebody else like on top of them, somebody else like hugging them, somebody like knee on belly. Like, I don't know all these things and what they're for exactly, but I'm imagining like some of it is to try to make me tense, try to make me – if you put your knee like on my like quad to try to get some other hold or whatever. Some of it is to make me like flip out and panic and like give you something probably, right? And so it would be very difficult. Like it wouldn't be that bad to breathe when I'm running. Like all right, I got that down okay I can and then for me to think like

I could do it in jujitsu it would be a way different story uh especially if I didn't have much experience with that before so I think that's hugely probably what you guys are dealing with it's a contact sport people are smothering you um everybody kind of knows what it's like to be new and then it's like well let me give this this is how this is how i learned the fucking you know and i'm sure like people are they're not like not everyone's doing dirty shit to you but there's probably some people in class that are throwing a little dirty stuff in there too just because it's kind of fun and funny to break people in right do you know what your testosterone levels are at how about your estrogen how about your prolactin how about your cholesterol if the answer

is i don't know what they're at, well, we've been talking about blood work for a long time now. That's why we've partnered with Merrick Health, a company owned by Derek from More Plates, More Dates. Now, with Merrick, you can get yourself something called the Power Project Panel, which will give you 26 different labs that will help you understand what's going on underneath the hood. After that, you'll be able to be partnered with one of their patient care coordinators, which will give you interventions that range from lifestyle supplements to potential hormonal health treatments that can help move you in the right direction.

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use promo code power project 10 to save 10 off all labs again that's at merrickhealth.com slash power project links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes well so the the breathing and running is a great example too because i do think the same thing that keeps someone from learning you see people that go that have been successful like i know there's some people that are like really high level runners that can do sub three hour marathons and they're over striding mouth breathing and it's like they've just learned but in order for them to say hey you might be beneficial what's the thing that blocks them from doing that and i think that's the intention thing. It's the same thing that I think – in jujitsu, it's like whatever drags it to whether it's running.

Like I have to hit this pace, have this time, have to beat the person in front of me. Like, OK, you're just grabbing the next closest stimulus that gets your attention. In jujitsu, it's provided for you. Like, hey, this is your now stimulus. Like this is his name. You're going to be by him. So like within that, it's like if you don't set the intention ahead of time but the hard part is like if for you you set the intention i'm going to learn how to nose breathe i'm going to show up and even in jiu-jitsu it's like you have to be

willing to sacrifice some aspect whether i'm going to slow down my role and i'm going to i'm i'm not going to be able to control the pace and control everything so i have to submit to some level and i will get tapped and there's a submission and evolve same thing running is all right if i know that i can go and hit these paces by just doing whatever but like I want to do this long-term thing, then there's an intention you have to set about that, which is, OK, I'm going to take a setback and do this. And I think that's the hard part. It's the ego.

And that's where I go back to the outward-facing posture, which is like the – how are you going to intend to move forward and allow this thing, which I think like sports and physical activity is just an avenue to learn your body and then to use that as a better way to interact with the world. How do you adjust that intention? And I think that's the hard part for most guys. If something's worked for them, like, yeah, we'll try this thing. But the second, you know, the second I get, I feel threatened, I'm going right back to what I know.

And the second I need to be able to hit this race or like they're running as my therapy, I'm going to go back to doing what I know. And they don't stick with that long enough. So then i think that's where you get the injury which is like but it's giving you pain and you're avoiding it and you're not making the adjustment whether you know it's all there's an interesting like in nature when there's like the poison the antidote it's always nearby in some sense like the plants or the food or whatever it is and the same thing when you have the pain it's almost always if you pay attention there's the signal for the solution is nearby like okay my body's stiff and tight someone's almost always if you pay attention, there's the signal for the solution is your body. Like, okay, my body is stiff and tight. Someone's almost always telling you in the same breath, hey,

breathe, do this stuff. I remember what it was like. And there's things. And I remember hearing those things. And in the moment, the hard part is everything you ever do as an individual is always rational to you. It makes sense. It's like, I get why you're doing it and what you're doing. I know it makes sense to you. And I know you'd have to trust me to do something different, which seems counterintuitive because it would put you at risk for your ego, your physical body, whatever it is. You have to trust that and that's the hard part because it's like in jiu-jitsu. It's like – it's easier if you embrace the white belt. I think that's one thing that we both do fairly well is like – it's bleached.

It's pretty clean. It's like there's – I don't have – I'm not going in there to try and be the best at the sport. Like I'm going in to get more confident in myself, which is a pretty low bar because as long as I show up and do the thing and come back, like, you won. I think that's what you've been most successful in running is like – I don't know where it will end up, but you've just showed up like, no ego. I'm just going to plod along and do it, run every day, run through it. And it's like with that white belt mentality, it lets you just show up to whatever it is, lifting and stuff. But when you attach the ego, I've heard like swimming is a thing you do when you stop judging yourself for having bad technique. What is what you do?

Swimming is the thing you – like for example, a lot of people say I can't swim or I'm a bad swimmer. In the same breath, like have you ever swum? Oh, no, I can't swim. Like they have like these labels they have about themselves. It's like, well, swimming is – not my quote but I've heard it. I don't know where it came from. But swimming is the thing you do when you stop judging yourself for having bad technique. And you've discovered so many things about running.

It's from Alan Watts. And he said it basically referring to the last kid in the class that learns how to swim is the kid that all of a sudden he's not thinking about swimming anymore. He's thinking about playing with the other kids that are swimming. And then he swims over to them. But he didn't even think about swimming. You know what I mean? So it's tough to get to those points, though. You need a lot of – some people need visual.

Some people need physical. And sometimes you need it over and over. Some people can pick up stuff in three tries, four tries. Some people can – it might take them – it might take you a year sometimes to learn something that you're thinking is so simple. And that's why it's interesting when you say no ego. I think that's pretty easy for people to understand. But if you say no or low expectations and people are like, I don't want to play that game. They're like, I don't want to be involved in that.

Don't you have the sign out in the gym? I'd rather be dead than average with your brother. Yeah. Well. But in a sense, I think that's where you find the most valuable thing is not necessarily your personality type and stuff like that. But it's like what you find interesting. And I do think that there's a certain level of like there's a passion that can drive you to go and do dumb things when you're younger. Like, I don't know, stay up all night playing video games because you absolutely love it or whatever it is

but like then i think as you season out a little bit you can bring some of this more intentional aspect and that's where you start to learn more valuable things in terms of you start to take this pursuit and understand that okay this is like a an opportunity for me to expand my capacity as an individual so but like the expectations that's an interesting idea like the idea of expectations assumptions unspoken agreements but i do think it goes back to that but that's been the valuable thing is like you can maybe some people can maybe change their expectations a bit where um you can maybe recognize you're only going to learn stuff so fast and then like what's reasonable for you yeah like is it

reasonable for you to think about jujitsu um when come home, when you're done with your day and you ran and you did your other stuff that you do for your business? Sure. That sounds totally reasonable. Watch some videos and think about it more. Think about it, you know, on your way to class and think about it more on your drive home from class. Those things are all reasonable. But where we get irrational or where we get in a state where we're not very reasonable is when we think – when we start to compare ourselves to other people. Like, oh, man, that guy came in like, man, at least two or three months after I started. He's smoking me. But you have no idea what the guy's background is.

Maybe he's – The judo for a long time. Yeah, maybe he did something else. Or maybe he's just fucking – But you have no idea what the guy's background is. Maybe he's – The judo for a long time. Yeah, maybe he did something else or maybe he's just fucking – sometimes you just got to – and then what can you do? Like what can you do to get better than that guy? For you, you have other things going on. So to have things running in parallel, but then you got to calm yourself back down again and say, no, no, no. I'm doing this to get more confident with myself fucking don't forget that so all i gotta do is show up twice a week like i already planned i'm

already doing that i'm already checking those boxes so why am i disappointed that i'm not keeping up with this other guy that i don't even know so that's a fascinating because it goes to something like there's a parallel with that which is i because my only goal and intention with at least at this point is just to be more confident in myself and show up, like I don't think about it the second. I show up, put on the gi, do the thing, take it off and just very – like that's it. I don't like – I don't watch videos. I don't think about it. I don't like obsess about it because I'm just thinking about it.

I think about it as a completely personal thing, not necessarily – that's why it's always funny to me. Like people talk about competing. It's like, oh, wait. This is like tennis for some people. This is like they really love this. Like they wanted to go and think and watch the guy – watch the – I don't know who the best of the best is. But like watch the best of the best and do all that stuff. But the other side of that is with running, this 400, so I went to the track meet. And so I did a little time trial yesterday just to see where I was at and I was disappointed.

I was – I had expectations, very high comparison expectations. I'm going to get below 55, continue to work better because I've learned a lot. But I haven't had the reps and practice to be able to put that in and like make the physical changes in my body yet. So that led to – oh, I know all this stuff because a lot of the people we talk about get very conceptual and philosophical with movement and all this stuff. And if you just unlock these things, you'll be running faster than Usain Bolt. And so that kind of feeds into it. And there's something about like a 400 meter sprint that ever since high school and there's I've so desperately wanted to be on the 400 team and I was just always never like and they didn't have the speed of the capacity

I didn't know how to train didn't know I'm doing that stuff and then but I I can watch it Instagram just a random thing will pop up and somebody running in my my heart, like it is like Monday or Sunday night. I was thinking I was going to do this time trial. So I'm thinking about it. I lay down and start thinking about it. All of a sudden my heart is like – and I'm just like in bed like thinking, OK, I'm going to start here. I'm going to go there. I'm going to get 200 meters.

I'm going to focus on this. I'm going to posture. Like I'm through the whole thing and I'm like wide awake at 3 in the morning because I cannot sleep. I'm just like, OK, I'm going to do this. And like the expectations and then of course I just shit the bed the next day. I was actually trying to run and I have so much expectation I put on. I was like, I want to do this and if I can't do this, I'm going to suck and everyone's going to hate me and I'm going to be

like, but it's, I realized like, why don't I just, I should take the same exact mindset of like, you just show up and do the thing. When I'm at jujitsu, I don't never skip a roll and go 100% and I always try to find someone I know will be challenging and I don't take the easy way out. Like, you know, like there's some people, you know, like, all right, they're smaller than me or they're whatever.

And so I can, you know, but that like that, that's the lesson I'm learning now, which is I walked away and I was just like really dejected yesterday. I was like, man, you know, I'm a failure. I should just quit and go home. And there's a lot of that, which is like, it's an inner game that is keeping me because there is a lot of the trusting in a sense. Like being able to go and just trust your body is going to move. It's like – like even just the way I think about running. Do you feel as if you force things sometimes? What do you mean? With running, if you look at my form, you would start to look at like – meaning so there's an overstride.

There's things I've made adjustments, meaning like I don't overstride as much. I'm more relaxed. I have a slightly forward lean. Mark talks about these things all the time but it's like when you look at like the maximal output it's okay there are things that happen and it's the things that happen are second order externalities of me trying to force it meaning the i muscle through things i land too high so for example one of the adjustments is like you know you think okay i'm running correctly as a forefoot strike and we can make arguments about like forefoot, midfoot, heel strike, anatomical, what those mean.

But like a forefoot strike in my under – like you can land too forward on your foot, meaning your heel is high. And the higher your heel is, the further it has to travel before the arch can flatten out, which means it's a longer time on the ground, slower turnover and slower movement. So being able to land with essentially as much surface area as possible with a heel, still on the forefoot, but like the heels just barely off the ground. Almost unidentifiable that you're even striking anything in particular on the ground. Yes. And this is what people would call it. The whole foot just splats. Yeah. People would call that a midfoot strike because it looks like the whole foot's going

down, but technically the midfoot is the arch. So you're really making, it's like, this is the value of having a shoe with a heel raised because like it just makes it harder. If I need to get a millimeter off the ground to be able to hit the ground and pop off, like look at the Messiah Tribe and Usain Bolt were there. Usain Bolt is running 100 meters in less than 10 seconds from a dead start. That's less than a second for every 10 meters. It blows your mind to think about how quick that is to hit the ground. And that doesn't happen if my foot – if I'm landing with my heel an inch off the ground because i'm supposed to be upright and i'm thinking i got a muscle through it then my muscles fatigue and what do i look like at the end of a 400 i look like i'm overextended

and my body is like falling apart because my muscles are dying and like okay well i'm not running with the right set of tissues i would i'm not i'm using a wrong set of fuel for the race like i'm showing up and thinking i got a muscle through this when it's really this like one of those random guys i'm just probably one of those guys is just like you know the quintessential janitor at the end of the google hunting kind of thing but like this guy is a track coach he just shows up and he goes and does stuff and he goes you know the ground will give you some of the back if you're in the right spot and like that just stuck in my head like oh the ground will give me some of the back from the right spot so like les spellman working with him

and just starting to see some of these postures and hips extended and like some of these that's really all the stiffness in my hips and the rotation all these things like oh so i have all these things in my head i'm like okay now i'm gonna be the best that it's like no no you gotta show up let the ego go because the ego immediately go make me force things let me ask you a question too because you're you're very experienced like you've done a lot of running in your past um when you're doing these runs do you find yourself thinking during your 400 like when you're about to runs do you find yourself thinking during your 400 like when you're about to do like okay i'm gonna try to go for this time on these 400s as you're running are you thinking of things are you thinking of form are you just letting your body do its thing

i think mark had this was someone picked up from him was like you pick one thing to focus like a very simple cue and like you kind of stack them but like okay and most of those are like more themes like okay relax like uh the double down from like david weck and like head over foot or like i'm gonna hit the ground in this spot and and i think of those as like practice reps it's like okay how do i ingrain this but so i'll break that into two that there's a type of thinking i think i try to focus on and this might not be helpful at all but is the tactical cue of like where do i want my body like what is the position like what grip do i want to have what position how do i want to breathe whatever it is something like that as opposed to the other side of thinking where i get all right you're tired you know like i

but there it's very easy to switch back into that and i think that's the thing is like learning just to like when i feel fastest is when i just shut off and go but it generally happens like four or five what i'll say is like i think about that is the rolling in a sense like if i go and do three four five reps where i think one cue at a time and then i start to like get more natural my body literally my knees feel loose and everything loosens and i go that's where i start to run the fastest but it's hard to remember that i always have to like work my will into that because i want to just think and focus because i think too much i go oh boy you're feeling tired your hamstrings are a little tight you could do your feet like you start to beat and then i you know you have a real distinct advantage over a lot of people though you know what that is you and then see my nature that too yeah yeah super training right no distinct

advantage is that you don't compete in the 400 so what does that mean you get to do it on your time well i want to compete at some point no No, I understand. But my point here is just like I would say have a day where it's like there's like a specific intent. And then if it feels open to go for it, then fucking go for it. Yeah, I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? Like so it might be a day where you're planning on like doing a particular workout. Maybe you're doing some 50-yard sprints or something. You do a couple of them and you're like, wow, okay, today is going to be a little different.

And you try like 100 and you're like, okay, I'm pretty confident. I think today might be a good day because remember that day? That was what I just – When you ran the super shoes and you ran randomly 57 seconds I think. Well, so that was a year ago. I ran the super shoes and I took them off and did a 55-second barefoot. But that was a year ago. That's why I wanted to do it.

At that time, I was warmed up. I was having fun. There were people I liked and it was a sunny day. And it was just like, all right, I'm going to go for it. But I wasn't thinking about it. And so like that's the thing I get to which is – there's two parts. One is like the same thing in jujitsu because it kind of forces you. And I think that's the thing I like about jujitsu is like i tend to be very cerebral and get stuck in my head of like

okay i could get hurt i could do this this is bad and so that keeps me like 40 anywhere from 10 to 40 less effective and less assertive and aggressive than i otherwise would be in jujitsu there's no option you're just like you okay and eventually like eventually i get like i turn on some more of aggression and like okay that's where i need to start to live in a little bit more but intentionally. The hard part though is like getting that mindset to be more forward-facing in the other aspects of life of like, OK, be – trust the gut and just like move. But you have to put in the reps to get to that point too. So that's the other thing is like I understand – it's like there's a dichotomy to managers. I do need to go in with some focus on a very simple cue and just break it down one thing at a time.

And if I can't just make that a mantra, so to speak, where I don't have to think, I can just – I can set an intention and then just do that. If it's too complex to – if it's so complex I have to think about it, it's probably too complex the wrong cue. But very simple like breathing. It's like set that and just carry that in there and maybe if you notice you've stepped out of that like range you wanted to be in you pull yourself back in but it's it's almost as simple as like you tell your body and it goes and does it and then you get enough reps stacking those cues eventually it becomes like thing where you can go think and so nature yeah yeah so that's i i understand there's the dichotomy to manage and i when with something like jujitsu i have no ego whatsoever about it because i'm like i'm just gonna go up and like and that's's what – it's hard to get worse when you're starting off.

But like I think I'm consistently getting better at a decent rate. But with running, the times I get the best, I kind of last fall is like I had some calf issues going on, like some pops in the Achilles or calves. It took me like two months trying to figure that out. But that's what led me to a lot of stuff of like, you know what? I have all these expectations. I have this ego, this identity, literally an identity built around running and what i'm supposed to be able to do and you know what might be the thing that i'm actually missing is all the assumptions i'm making and so like stepping back and say okay what do i think i

know about running that i don't actually know and so just watching you talking is just trying to talk of like have access to some of the best coaches and some of the best people and i pick up these things like oh all right it makes a lot of sense. But I have to really step back. And so now, it's very easy to go, okay, I'm going to have this thing. I'm going to go to the podcast, talk about how fast I am. It's going to be great. It's a champion for barefoot and all this stuff because it's like the guy is a track kid.

He took a video. I had someone video so I could double check my hand time with the actual time. And he goes, well, I've never seen someone run barefoot before. I was like, that's kind of ironic because you have feet and you run but whatever the point was like i'm gonna go out there and you know it's gonna be great and it's like nah the huge ego hit in a sense is like okay there's something about that which is like that's the lesson i'm learning now and it's mirrored through jujitsu and other things but and the thing i

really really get close to hard is like i really want to be good at this like if there's one thing i want to be able to like walk away with, like athletically, physically, you know, a sub 5,400, like there's a lot of identity wrapped up into that. But that's the thing is like, it's not going to get there. I'm not going to get to that point by forcing it in a sense. And that's, but it's so humbling. It's so humbling because it forces every other part of the thing that's worked well for me in my life is being really good at talking and being able to argue and have all those things and like being perfect and showing up and outward like out thinking and out riding and out doing and so like i you know i can portray the aesthetic of like i got everything together i'm good you know it's smooth but then there's like the thing if you

want to get break through that you have to step back and be willing to submit and so yeah were your inputs deserving of a pr no but that's the thing i thought about like i missed december and january because i was nursing these calves and trying to figure out and then i realized like oh you say calves or cats calves calves you're nursing your calves baby cows baby cows you're nursing calves yeah like the animals no my calves your actual calves yes my baby cows i thought we're talking the same thing my My guy. He's nursing his calves. Okay. His calves, yeah.

His cattle. He loves animals. That was an ego hit too. Like I wanted to go out and run with you and I was trying to find you. And I'm talking like this is a glorified plot. I'm like, you know, like maybe a 20-minute mile trying to find Mark. And it's like at two miles in and just pop, something in my calf goes. And I was like, what in the world was that?

And then I was like, okay, I'll take a few days off, feel better. And then the next week I track, goes. And I was like, what in the world was that? And then I was like, okay, take a few days. I'll feel better. And then the next week I track pop. And it's like, but then it was the same guy three times, two times on the right calf.

And then my left calf started to go. And I was like, okay. Then I realized like my toe, I, this is the thing is I'm the barefoot sprint. I'm supposed to be the foot guy has all together. And I was,

my toes are way too stiff. And so then I have to go back and question the assumption for the thing that I built my identity off of. It's like, okay, what if you're still missing the gate there and which has led to like a whole new version of the program i just really literally redid a lot of that and but it was one of those things i'm like i'm jumping and doing all this stuff and i can't even go for a little run and so that like that was december and january and then in that time so then

february i got like four weeks of like okay i actually couldn't run again but meanwhile i'm trying to make some of these new adjustments, like whether the foot strike, and then also understanding, okay, there's, and Mark was talking about this yesterday, it's really valuable. It's like people talk so much about the foot strike for running, but it really is like the foot's just, I don't think about the fist strike with punching. We understand that it's like the, everything rotates in there. But like, if I think about my feet, when I run, my calves feel tight, my feet hurt hurt like because your my attention is there but it's the feet are just going along with the ride and it's this whole body thing so as i start to get and this is you know like david weck all these

people you're talking about like this rotational head of a foot this cue the go to guys like this coiling mechanics that very different because i was a grinder cross-country runner in high school middle school and then going to just powerlifting body bodybuilding, CrossFit. It's like I'm Sagittal Plain, baby. We don't rotate very much. I think I heard Grindr in there. Grinding, yes. That's my actual backup plan if this running is going to work out, just pictures and feet. But the point is that –

Very aesthetic feet. It is true. It's starting to work on that. Nice thick tendons and nice spacious toes. Yeah, I know. and nice spacious toes. Yeah, I know. But the point of that is looking at the changes to running form are a full body,

they're a full body like flow. It's not as simple as just saying, oh, just, you know, land on the forefoot. It's like there's adductors, there's hips, there's rotational mechanics and Mark is just obsessed with this stuff, figuring out. So all those changes are in my head too and I have not had time for that to manifest in my body.

And so then I go, you know, forward, but the expectations are there because I'm thinking about it, thinking about it, watching head too and I have not had time for that to manifest in my body. And so then I go forward. But the expectations are there because I'm thinking about it, thinking about it, watching YouTube videos. And I'm like, OK. Like every time I see something, if you want to get my heart racing at stupid times of the night, you just send me a video of someone running. And I'm like – it's not helping me. And so – Why did you make that sound? Who made that sound?

If someone's listening and they just didn't see a grand in the middle of the night in the middle of the night just tell me just i'm right there baby no fat andrew do you have that video i sent over to you oh i'm sorry i didn't email do something but all this i did not my expectations did not match the actual physical things that i should have so then it took a little while to flip that around. I'm like, all right. So this is kind of a question for everybody. Just watch what – you got to play the audio too and go along with it.

Head over foot. But this is Mike Tyson versus Evander Holyfield. And kind of the question here is like how long do you have to be doing this shit to be able to do this to Mike Tyson? How long do you have to practice? this shit to be able to do this to mike tyson how long do you have to practice makes mike tyson miss the right hand mike tyson throws a jab at evander holyfield but you can see holyfield parry the jab with his right glove and that prevents mike tyson from measuring the distance between the two and finding punching range and then when mike tyson looks to throw that right hand you can see Evander Holyfield pushing the side of his head in the opposite direction,

and that misfires the accuracy of Mike Tyson's right hand, which follows. And ultimately, this makes Mike Tyson miss the right hand. Mike. I mean, that takes, you know what I mean? Like, that takes a career, right? Yeah. Holyfield's been boxing his whole life.

He was an Olympic boxer. He was a professional boxer for a long time. You know what I mean? Like that takes a career, right? Holyfield has been boxing his whole life. He was an Olympic boxer. He was a professional boxer for a long time. He was a cruiserweight champion, ultimately the heavyweight champion. And him and his coach must have came up with something. You know, it's like how much training. Probably on accident. They like, oh, you did that? I couldn't.

It's like they work on it. Yeah, they work on it. And they might have saw like maybe Buster Douglas did this did this to mike tyson because not a lot of people did this kind of shit to mike tyson you wouldn't even think that that kind of chop move would even work with how powerful mike tyson is but if you look holyfield also moves his head yeah it actually looks like it's so smart that it would be easier to almost like tap someone's punch in anticipation than it would be to move out of the way of his head. And if you watch Holyfield on the first one, he's able to tap the arm slowly, relaxed, very easily. And then he kind of moves his head out of the way.

So my point here is just like it takes so long to ingrain some of these things that we're trying to learn. And I think especially for you and Andrew doing doing jujitsu it being new for you and then even some of the new inputs that we're hearing with running i'm pretty open to like trying a bunch of different things um maybe i could get a uh maybe i can get faster times and maybe i could do better if i just was like this is the right way. I'm going this way and I'm just going to work really hard. Maybe I could get somewhere faster, but my concern there is, and what I've seen happen before, is that you maybe end up in a position where you get a black belt that doesn't know how to relax. You know what I mean? And I don't want to be

better just for better sake. I want to be better and also work on being like more complete so two things on that one of which is for like this is a lesson from jujitsu is as someone who is non-initiated any type of combat of combat or physical touch i'd see that and go oh those guys like i could probably you think you automatically just think like you're like 60 percent of what they could do oh yeah like it wouldn't hurt that much but i'm like you go to jujitsu it hurts that much and more like you're like 60% of what they can do. Oh, yeah, yeah. It wouldn't hurt that much. But I'm like you go to jujitsu, it hurts that much and more. Like you just – like there's a physical thing about like you just completely underestimate. Like it's like you see NBA or NFL guys on TV like, oh, whatever. Like they're big and you see them.

Oh, my god. Like they're big. They make us look like kids. And they're so strong and fast and it really hurts when you like – like it like it's you just can't and that's the uninformed optimism of like oh we knew that bad it's like i remember that fast like no you can't no you would it still hurts that's one side but like doing jiu-jitsu makes me have so much more respect for that because you can't even like you can't even like calculate how physically athletic and competent these guys are another side of that is the with this this is the thing that I want to work on from a running

perspective. And so like say the Kadoro Ziani for example is not like fashionably dominant is – there's a part like, OK, I could go and – like I've done the long distance thing and it's not as meaningful. But the idea of something like that where if I'm patient and become the black belt that – avoid becoming the black belt that doesn't know how to breathe. It's like is there capacity in my body in the set of tissues that I rely on that allows for something different? So I want to be – because I'm almost – I'm 29.

It's almost 30. But it's like there's a fear of like, oh, you can only be as athletic and capable until you're this. But it's like is it – if I do it well and just take a year of just like really building up some of these tissues and like make my calf bellies a little bit higher, it's interesting. year of just like really building up some of these tissues and like make my calf bellies a little bit higher it's interesting but i i think it would be an interesting not to say i have to champion to do anything because i don't have i'm not obligated to something but like if there was a test case in a study for my life it's saying can you kind of become can you build an athletic body over a consistent time and i think a lot of that is okay the things i have to learn now aren't for like lifting weights and doing more stuff it's like trusting the bones and like just like being in that space a little bit more and not forcing things.

But that takes the opposite. In some sense, it takes the approach that I've developed like you bring intention and focus and do this stuff and show up and be consistent with the ego out of it and lower the expectations or adjust the expectations potentially. potentially and that's where looking at if i can you know if really doing like what figure out what the sacrifices necessary are to develop the the physical tissue and body that is capable of you know performing in a way like all right getting because when you get a 49 if i can run a 49 something second 400 barefoot that says a lot not just about me which is very little about me it just says i just did this for a long time but it says a lot about like what people could do in a sense in so much that that's like it's not it's not really motivation i just do it because it's It's very little about me. It just says I just did this for a long time. But it says a lot about like what people could do in a sense. In so much that that's like – it's not really motivation.

I just do it because it's interesting to me. But it's like when I hear a track kid running and I do coaching calls with kids that have like shin splints or plantar fasciitis or Morton's aromas and stuff like that. It's like, hey, have you thought about the shoes? And this is the part too I do think – so Tiana and I were talking about this last night. When you have a new technology, it only takes a generation or two before you've completely forgotten about the capacity. So think about phones, directions, understanding like seeing the stars. Like how many generations have a phone before we've completely forgotten what it's like to not be able to call someone, to have to communicate, to have to just say, hey, I'll see you tomorrow at 12 and trust that. Hey, I'll – this place – like we don't even – and this is the same thing this kid is talking to me.

It's like I've never seen someone run without shoes before. I'm like you're a track athlete at like a high level and it's fundamentally – we forget that shoes are a modern-day thing and it's like 1920s are the first induction to the modern cleats. But the Greeks, for example, they thought shoes were un-aesthetic, unnecessary and un-athletic. That's why the Olympics were all done naked. There's multiple reasons probably, but they thought of the body as an aesthetic thing to demonstrate the show. That would be a great Olympics, man. I'd only be watching the female side

of things. Golly. Some of those track women, bro. I know. Well, the first events in the olympics were the it's the when the olympics were around i was so embarrassed well i wasn't even embarrassed but like my whole fucking youtube discover feed was all like pole vault 100 meter fucking the the long jump there is something about a female sprinter i'm just uh it's just something else but like and i don't know why they make it more underwear.

But it's like whatever. But there's something about this athleticism, this poise. And you just look at like we want to see the body on display. And I think Alexander the Great conquered the world with barefoot armies because the Greeks, they – little sandals and stuff. The Romans are the first ones that had like metal-infused shoes, the first cleats so to speak. But that's like – you think of it a long time ago. That's just a few hundred years ago and humans have existed. And so my point is that in some sense, technology allows us to see things from a different vantage.

But it also makes us dumb as to the original medium. And when you no longer understand that like – and that's where I think we missed the boat when we started thinking about, oh, I want to run. What's my foot strike? And I get people that message me all the time like, I have – my fourth metatarsal extension is weak. I'm like, it shouldn't be that hard. You don't think about your fingers like that. Like we've been robbed of the ability just to think of our bodies just like a unit. Like, oh, you don't even think – I remember when Jimmy House came by and he was deadlifting.

The man just like – his little feet – not little feet uh but his feet little toes just grabbed the ground and he didn't think about it and a lot of the people just does yeah yeah and we think it's like if you look at kobe bryant said this is like don't watch what i do watch how i do it it's like we just watch the things that people don't pay attention to like big toe extension just moving but how much of our bandwidth is is sucked up by this background noise of having to figure out things that shouldn't have even been a thought to begin with. And that's hard. It's true.

But like the cool thing is like when you came here, we were going a little bit down the foot rabbit hole because Ben Patrick talked about that a little bit. But after you helped us out a lot, Mark's feet, my feet, Andrew's feet are drastically different, move drastically different than a year ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? And now they're just so much more active when we're not doing things. And we had to kind of think about it at first because we didn't know anything about it. And this is not a dissuasion from anybody that – like you do need to go. Unfortunately, it's like if – for example, with Andrew and I starting, there's a little bit of like – it sounds silly.

I just need to learn to be more aggressive. that should be like oh you know like as a young boy you wrestle or like have to deal with nature it's just like things are it's like when you see a young kid who walks in as like 14 15 16 because this is this is me at 16 going into uh for ruin the whole podcast at 16 going to the gym and like you know i can't even like pick up a weight and it's like my hands are so like soft and little babies and little pale kids like you think you look at a kid you're like you should be able to do so much more and yet they just like they could but they're they're weak and they're just soft and it's like okay you're just gonna have to go do something like pick up something and carry around it and rough up your body for a long time and so unfortunately it's kind of like if you see a kid who's 20 and he

can't read you're like okay well or they can't write they can't speak or can't read. You're like, okay, well, or they can't write, they can't speak, or can't do some basic thing. It's like, it's holding them back. It's like, unfortunately, there is a reality. We have to pause the progress we would have made in order to slow down and do this thing. But if you do that, you'll have the rest of your life. But if you don't, you're going to be hindered. So that's the kind of thing is like,

for people who have been robbed of the fact that, and the barefoot shoes are not enough. I think you both have seen this too, is like, you do have the skin, the thousands of nerve senses that you have to feel and move and get into. Like you both are obsessive. Actually, all three of you like are obsessive in moving your toes and starting to think about them like your fingers and get tissue mobility that is beyond just saying, I bought a pair of Vivos and I'm good to go. It's like that's very helpful and it's good and it can be a step. So anything whether toe spacers, whatever it is that gets people in that

motion. But, you know, we kind of have to go back to third grade PE and think, okay, let's do some rudimentary work to like, think about our body. I'm going to take three months of my life. Is that the intention? Okay. Let the ego go back. I might not be able to tap everybody in jujitsu or run as much as I was or whatever, but I'm going to build this foundation. And then when I do that, it's like, okay. So that's what I'm starting to think about is the feet are service to what the hands are service to what and that was the other change i noticed with jujitsu that was valuable it's like the tendons in my fingers hurt for weeks i'm telling you like i i remember one time i like you got in a grip and i get a hold of my like i don't know what it is i'm just gonna stay here and i'm telling you like deep tendon i

happen to be training or traveling for two weeks right after that my fingers hurt for weeks because it is the first time i'd ever got like a really tight grip like for my life depending on it and like there's there's tendon changes and so now i think okay the first step of this process is let me discover let me just feel this stuff again like okay this is what my feet feel like and then the next is like get some tissue mobility then so this is the things i have this running program which is is kind of like my ode to humanity, whatever. I try to create like the culmination because it always goes back. There's like a cycle. It's like, OK.

For example, let's just say you're looking at – right now you all live in Sacramento. So you're very familiar. You could tell like where the granular capillary level like roads are in the city. But if you go visit Austin, you're like, oh, god, I have no idea where I am. The first round of understanding what Austin is is what's the big belt loop? What are the major highways? What's the interstates going through? OK, that's like knowing the big fascial lines.

These are the basic things of like I flex and I extend and I rotate. OK, I got the big layover. And as you go through, there's a first set of like pain discovery process. All right, I learned the major highways and interstates. Then it's like, oh, let's get a little more granular. And so most people think I did the thing. I'm done. I'm supposed to be in like happy heaven and never hurt anything. I have no pain again. It's like I live in numbness. It's like, no, no, pain is an invitation to explore. The next round. OK, well, I have a basic map of this stuff. Now let me go back in and say, oh, these are the major like highways around.

These are the major roads that go in and they lead into the city. OK. And the third round, you start to understand the neighborhood. Then you figure out this is actually, these are the back streets and this is this little hole in the wall space. And that's how you learn your body. And there's two parts of that. I think people get stuck in this process of going further and further down, which there's something to be said, but they also don't then go and apply that to the thing that could hurt them again. And I think the point of this rehab- Before you continue, explain that. Which they get hurt again?

Yeah, yeah. What were you getting at there? So the point of a physical therapy, which is interesting. You think physical therapy. It's like you heal. It's like point of therapy is not to go and say I've worked through all my trauma. Now I never have to deal. No, you go and do hard things.

You slowly get accustomed to your fear of heights so that you can go and be on – like go hike in the mountains and not be afraid. It's like you do this so that you can do that. But you have to go back and approach the fear. It's not that you want to get hurt again. It's that if let's say I hurt my shoulder – any of the reasons I hurt my shoulder. Let's just say I hurt my calf. Like I just want my calf.

And this is the negotiation people will make is they hurt themselves doing something. You say eventually they avoid it. They do the ignorance like, OK, I'm just going to keep going. It doesn't hurt that bad. It eventually gets worse and worse and worse until either the overuse turns into an acute thing or it just like continually grinds it down. And they start making negotiations.

They go, you know, if I could just not be in pain. And you've been there with your back too. It's like you start to make negotiations about what you'll sacrifice. Just please let me just do this and have my life back because it starts to get pain. It's like this incessant noise. It just continues to beat you down. People think they're fine if they didn't get a signal from their back pain for the day.

And that's – but it changes you as a person, your posture, your energy, everything about you. Pain and injury just completely just contracts you into this like shell marble of what you could have been. And it is not until you willing to say i'm not someone messing me like i want to do this right so i don't have any hiccups i'm like no you need to i want to do this right even if there are hiccups like it's that it's being willing to do it and so like for you you've changed as a person with jujitsu it's because and i don't know what it is specifically but you now think about yourself as someone that's capable of defending your family as opposed to someone who's, OK, if they get this close, then I'll try. But I care for my back. So you can have my kid, but you can't have this one.

And you legitimately move differently. Like even the way you walk, your physical demeanor is different. Your eyes are different. Everything. And so you're either expanding or contracting. And so the thing is it's not that I want to get hurt again, but I want to – when I accept – so the foot program, to put this tangibly, people will go and they've been – a lot of times by the time they get me, they've done their orthotics, done the injections, they've done the physical therapy, done the shoes. They've done it in years and lots of money and they're finally like, OK, fine. I'll try this thing.

It seems sketched. Like you move your toes. It would be the craziest thing you do. But you get to that point and they're like making negotiations. Like I hope this works. And hope and faith is an interesting thing. Like you have hope and – hope is a belief based off something you have no control over. Faith is something you do.

So like they hope – I just hope I can fix this. And so they do the first part. They wiggle the toes. I feel so much good. I feel so much better. I do the massage. I get the new shoes. Everything is good.

And then they always get to about – week four, I have plyometrics and running drills in there. It's not a running program. The plyometrics like even just bouncing and just doing some very basic things. It's like a jump rope. Jump rope, for example. But like people are scared of that because if you've had plantar fasciitis or Achilles tendonitis for years, you've made negotiations. You've sold your soul to the devil saying, I don't care what I have to never do again. This is why I hate most mainstream surgeons and doctors who say, we have surgery.

You need to be fine. I just need you to never ski, jump rope, skateboard, walk, do anything dangerous. It's like, OK, great. Sit on the couch. But it's like they're afraid. And so as simple as jump rope, as simple as that, just bouncing. But they can't dream about like what they could do because they're just – they've already made that negotiation. So it's being willing – being to the point I want to get healthy enough so that even if – so that I could hurt myself again, so I could try to hurt myself again.

It's not that you want to but it's like I'm embracing the fact that life has vulnerability and there's variability in life and that dreaming again. I think that's the thing is you – Andrew started dreaming again. Like Mark, I think it's just been – you have a different – you take such unique and low expectations that you never get to your point of like you're just very smart. You just stay 10 percent below what you could do that day and you rarely, rarely ever get hurt. And so I think that's something to be said for doing it smart and just continue to show up. But as for people who have injuries and it's like – you're very attuned. Like when we first ran, this was like a year ago or like 10 months ago and something popped in your hip. You were like, all right, pop him.

You just – you like – you dropped all like, all right, I'm going to fix this and you just completely studied to that. And it's like not all of us – some are a little bit like more study or more ego-driven and stuff like that. But there's different paths for everybody. But the point is that like you never gave up that idea. I'm going to keep doing a little bit better. You just were willing to say I'm going to do it right. I think that's the hard part for a lot of – I don't know the psychology behind the other piece of it, but does that make sense?

Power Project family, your normal shoes are making you weak. This is why I partnered with Vivo Barefoot Shoes because they have a wide toe box, they're flat, and they're flexible. So with every single step you're taking, if you're taking a 10-minute walk outside or when you're working out in the gym, your feet are able to do what they're supposed to do

in this shoe they have tons of options for hiking running training in the gym chilling and relaxing casual shoes if you're out on a date you need to check them out and andrew how can they get it yes that's over at vivo barefoot.com slash power project and you guys will receive 15 off your order automatically again vivo barefoot.com slash power project links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes yeah what you got over there andrew uh if you tilt the mic towards you a little bit i told you i ruined the whole podcast no you're fine it's just now you sound a little bit better yeah no um yeah dude what you're saying about like the uh like i've never heard anybody say what you just said about like my eyes look different now

oh yeah it's your energy everything about your body is calibrated to like the thoughts and the emotions and like it's just it's all one unit yeah because that that literally did control my life like um i i stopped using a barbell for my exercising like i never touched it but then um i think mark you were you were just you had i think just 135 on on the bar and you were just doing that in conjunction with like a couple other things. And I just walked up to it and I'm like, Hmm. And I deadlifted it.

And I was like, looked around. I was like, and SEMA was the first person close to me. I just gave him a big old hug. I was like, dude, like I just deadlifted that.

And I felt nothing. Like I just, I just, I do feel more, more confident all around, you know, in, in conjunction with jujitsu.

But like, just the fact that like, like, yeah, if, if I had to, I could definitely go deadlift, you know in in conjunction with jiu-jitsu but like just the fact that like like yeah if if i had to i could definitely go deadlift you know whatever 225 but like when when that pain is there you said use the word noise and that's exactly what it sounds like because it's like i gotta go brush my teeth like fuck dude like it's gonna hurt my back yeah i gotta flush the toilet it's gonna it's gonna hurt my back and you do make sacrifices and you make uh you make these like you said deals with the devil it's like yeah i'm never gonna touch a barbell again if i could just please not be in pain there's negotiations it's such a weird thing like i don't know where that comes from or why i mean i

know why but it's just like i wish there was another solution that people would go to which is like what you're doing is helping people and stuff like that but like it's just it's wild what the human mind will do especially when it comes to protecting like an injury or this has been around for so long i remember being in the gym many many years ago and someone would say they're like oh i stopped i stopped doing uh that particular movement for a long time And then it's another movement and then it's another movement. It's like, oh, I haven't bench pressed in like 10 years. All I can do is incline. And then that same guy, it's like, you know, I stopped benching.

I stopped doing incline. All I was doing was like, you know, I don't know, chest flies, right? Yeah. They're just like get to a point where everything just kind of starts to shut down and you start to lose some of those capacities. So in the case of something like a deadlift, I think people get confused really easily because sometimes we're talking about like sports and sometimes we're talking about like what's the most important thing. Is it does it really matter if you deadlift 315 or 405? Am I going to feel that when you grab me in jujitsu? Am I going to feel that if I line up against you in football? I don't know. Probably not. However, it would be a great idea for you in conjunction with whatever sport it is that you're doing or whatever your goals are. If you just got your back to be

better, it'd be a great idea to work on strengthening it. One way you can strengthen it is through figuring out some way to bend forward with some sort of resistance. I mean, there's so many different things that you could do. It doesn't have to be a regular deadlift with a regular barbell. When you do your squat, it doesn't have to be the weights loaded on your back. We've had guys in here more recently. They've been doing safety squat bar squat where they hold their hands on the rack. Those are great movements. You get to get – Zerchers. zurchers yeah zurcher squat i mean there's so many options

squat thing you have that uh belt squat yeah belt squat there's so many options so you don't have to really say i think maybe that's something that people don't maybe they don't even know is that there's so many options you can do kettlebells you can do dumbbells i mean it's just the list of opportunities that there are to do a similar movement are huge and it would be a giant mistake to completely get rid of certain movements that's one of the real quick is one of my favorite things you've ever said is like why do we deadlift from right about that level like because somebody made the plates that tall and they put the hole right there it's like why do we even deadlift? Like it's all made up.

It is. It is 100% made up. The plates are that tall because they would, they would not crush the average man's head. So like the width of the bar off the ground is just like, like seriously, if you'd fell, it would not crush the man's head.

Like that's the original arrangement. But I think the, the, to your point is like, they won't feel three 15 versus four or five, but what they will feel is a confidence. Cause like, there's a difference.

I can have the same exact strength numbers and go and be completely different on the mat with 100 classes versus zero classes because I have no confidence. And I think that's the thing is like, if you look at, like, this is the thing that I really get annoyed about with physical therapy is they go, oh, it's physical therapy. Then I'm going to go exercise. No, physical therapy, exercise is physical therapy. All the stuff that we've been doing, I think, you know, we started to play around with like the box squats recently. But most of what I see you two doing are something on a cable machine where you're using different positions to pull you in and you're exploring. It is movement, whether it's the ball and the string, whether it's the rotation.

It is like you – and to a certain extent, there's a time for – let's say for me like doing the boring thing over and over again. I need to rough my body up. So there's something to be said for like developing the tissue strength of like basic hypertrophy and strength. But a lot of this is like people stop exploring when they go to the gym. They do their HIIT class. They do their 20 minutes to get their stuff. And like every time you go in the gym, it's an opportunity to just feel and move your body. And I think there's a piece of that which is like if you look at exercise as though it was physical therapy,

it's just physical therapy is when you're in pain, all you earn is like the – there's the prepare, peak, recover phases. It's like when you're hurt, you just do the warm-up. It's just physical therapy is when you're in pain, all you earn is – there's like the – there's the prepare, peak, recover phases. It's like when you're hurt, you just do the warm-up. That's it. That's all physical therapy is is the warm-up. And as you feel a little bit better, you can do a little bit more intensity in that and you kind of build back up to like a full capacity. But that's the thing is the confidence that comes from finding if you're in pain, if you're limited, if you – whatever it is, you have to go and do the thing that scares you. But you don't have to do the thing that scares you. You can do

something close to it. And there's so many variations you can start, hey, I'm going to start with a, you know, regressed height, like a higher plate. There's wagon wheels, for example, on a trap bar. And I'm going to start there. I'm going to start the work down. And you don't have to get to this, like, in-road, because it's all made up. It's all just, you know, we'll die anyways. But the point is not that you

achieve some objective outcome. The point is that you consistently showed up, because I think that's what really matters, like, like as a – because the same guy who goes from doing bench press to chest flies and everything else in his life. He's not getting promotions at work. His wife is not happy with him, whatever. His kids are – because he's contracting. You're either contracting or expanding and I think that's the hard part. I want to encourage – because there have been a lot of people who have been listening to the podcast saying, I just started Jiu-Jitsu. I've been wanting to.

If you're listening right now and you've been wanting to, just get in and start. I know that we sound like 2013 people who discovered CrossFit because when people start CrossFit, they're like, oh, God, have you heard of this CrossFit? It's all over their page. Have you heard of CrossFit? Let me tell you about the gospel of CrossFit. We sound kind of similar with Jiu-Jitsu. They've got the stickers on the back of their car, the Crossfit stuff right i'm at this box but there's a lot of people

not doing much that physically physically and also the thing is is this jujitsu will put you in so many different positions like you're going to feel so much pain because your body hasn't been in any of these positions before as you adapt and as you get stronger, those positions become something normal. But now you're moving your body in so many different ways that it probably hasn't moved if you've only been in the gym. You can look at your opponent as a stretching partner. Yes. It is. Oh, thank you, Insima.

Thanks for shoving my kneecap into my face. That's great. He's going to stretch out your elbow really, really far to max capacity and then just hold it there until you give up. My esophagus is very stretched out. We're going to take this to the end range of motion. Seriously, you go into so much variable

movement and then if you have something like the gym or whatever else, your body just getting a lot of what it normally wouldn't get, a lot of stimulus. So if you've been wanting to, just go fucking start. You'll really enjoy yourself. And you could do the thing that I did because I was too afraid is I did four sessions with an instructor just to feel like I wasn't going to die the second someone touched me. And then it seems like to the class, it's like, okay, fine.

Control your breathing. But if I did four sessions with a guy, because I had 11 shoulder dislocations going into it. So my – I'm going to get hurt. The second – I had no confidence about being able to control my body against resistance. And so then doing a few of those sessions was just like – it was just a thing I need to get started. So I did my first class and then like at this point, like, OK, now I can go to – it seems silly. But like just even going to a different class was like, oh, there's different people. They might not be mean.

They might be nice to me. It's like you develop levels and levels of confidence and comfort and a different class is like, oh, there's different people. They might not be mean. They might be nice to me. And it's like you develop levels and levels of confidence and comfort. And then eventually it's like, oh, OK. But wherever you need to start, like I started with some individuals and it was a really good place for me. But it was, you know, partly my inner neuroses. But I got through it. And now I'm, you know. And if you're in Sacramento, come to Casio Wernick Jiu-Jitsu.

Of course. Lots of fucking great people there. But Graham, one thing that's really cool about you, dude, is first off, a year ago, you uproot your life in North Carolina. You get everything set. You come and you move here to a place where you don't know anybody just so you can put yourself in a situation where you can meet and talk to a lot of people that are going to help you advance. And we've talked a lot on the podcast about if you do want to get better, you're going to have to change your setting. You're going to have to change the people you train with. You're going to have to change your friends. You're going to have to change certain things if you want to progress. And if you want to stay comfortable, you can stay

exactly where you are. You can be the king of your hill. You can be the big cat wherever you are, right? So it's really impressive that you did all of that. But what do you think allowed you to have the confidence to move across the country to a place like this? And you've changed so much within a year. But what gave you that confidence to do that, dude? So I've thought a lot. There's two things and neither one of them are going to be, you know, I just had this great realization one day. It's soft commitments and shits are breaking. So there's two things. commitments and shits are breaking.

So there's two things. One of the – prior to that, the reason I started to do it is like I was married. That fell apart real quick. I had a job. The pandemic destroyed that and then I have friends that close by and they just – one of my close friends died from a heart attack that day, like overnight. Like they talk to him that morning and then you get a call from my other close friend and they say – so things just break in life because as much as I want to say I'm a self-determined man, I pulled myself up,

I'm in bootstraps, I'm way too soft for that shit. Way too soft. And I was like, it's scary. So eventually, I was trying to hold on to so much control that when things break just because the things you didn't see coming were the ones that really hit you, it's the things I worry about. Alex Mosey had this tweet yesterday, but it was like

the things I worry about aren't the things that I didn't worry about are the ones that really smacked me. But it's the things that I worry about never come true. So it's like the point is – he said it much more eloquently than me. But the point is like there's a lot of things like that that first broke me free from at least the lie that I could control and like manipulate my own outcome. So like that was the first set of like – I married in college. I had a house. I had the whole thing.

So like – all right. Things aren't going to happen for me like the marriage isn't just going to work out because i chose hope i'm a nice guy you know the job isn't just going to work out because i'm a good employee like the friends aren't just going to work out because i'm here consistent so like okay there's a little bit of autonomy i have to have so that got me on the path of like okay let's you know start your own online business open up your own gym and like do that so then i got a little bit of confidence like oh'm like, oh, actually, I always freak about the – I always think this is amazing because people – I have so much anxiety and worry about the future.

But I always picture myself in the future as this weak, passive, pushover, like incapable person. But I'm never that way in the moment. I'm always capable and I figure things out. I went back to the corner. We're going to do this. And why would I think my future me would be less competent, capable, or confident than I am now?

It would be more so. So if I can handle things now and I'm not worried about myself now, why am I worried about future me? Because future me is going to be even better. So that's one step of like, OK, things just broke and eventually like there's no certainty. As much as you want certainty, you want to like, I want to say I love you and we're getting married. You're never going to leave me or nothing bad is going to happen. I want to say everything is going to work out. I can't guarantee it. And even if I could, I wouldn't want that because that would be miserable. The other thing that helps me is soft commitments. So I didn't just pack everything up and move over here. I was like, oh, you know, Mark had me come out. So we did the podcast and then I guess Mark

thought my eyes are pretty. So he was like, I want you to come out for a few weeks. And he was like, you know, a month. I was like, okay. So at that point it was like, all right, what would I need to do to come out for five weeks? OK. Well, I'd have someone else come work with a client. I made enough small things. OK. So I can kind of do that. I was like, OK. Well, that got me to think because when I was in a situation – You lived with that Asian guy who ate real loudly.

Oh, my god. Yeah. There's stories there. He put me up in an Airbnb. He was wonderfully nice. I had a college Asian roommate. That's something else. When you said he ate loudly what do you mean though I love those people I got whatever that fear is it like triggers me to my soul

I just want to when I see someone eat like that I want to slap them I want to give them such a dirty slap across the face because your your mouth needs to be

your picture of Graham like going in like the shower and then peeking back into the kitchen and be like, fuck, he's still out there chewing. He would get a box of pizza that lasted him the whole week. But I don't mean he refrigerated it. He would let it sit on the table and he'd come like three days later. He just, I'll take a bite.

It was the worst. So like I come out and I make the decision like, all right, I've got to go and, you know, I've got to set up, I've got to put enough of a relationship and change enough things. I'm like, OK, what do I do with these certain variables in my life? So like I mean situation A with constraints, meaning I'm in this environment where the problems and the things that I think that I have that are forcing me to stay in this spot are now my reality. Then something – opportunity comes up.

Even if – this is the thing I think is valuable. Like hypothetically, even if I didn't come out, I would have had to think about – if I go to the thought experiment, well, what would I need to do to be able to put this business on pause? Which I think Tim Ferriss' book that A 4-Hour Workweek was valuable for people like a decade ago because it got them to think, well, what would I need to do to be able to go for a two-week vacation? And so by thinking, I can create an environment that says, oh, now I would have this constraint, this constraint, this constraint because I've solved these original problems. So then I can go do that. The point is being able to say, OK, I'm going to go and pack up and leave for a month. That's valuable. So then when I was out of here, I was like, oh, wow, this is like – you're not going to find another place where like smarter, better, stronger, more successful people come through.

It's like this is the place I need to be if I want to grow. So what – maybe I'll do like – I'll come here for two weeks and stay for two weeks. And then it's like, OK, I start to make friends. I start to jiu-jitsu. I start a really good life here. And so I made a bunch of soft commitments. By the time you're making a bunch of soft commitments, you really realize you've made a hard commitment. And it's like, oh, like – sorry.

It makes the – by the time I made a bunch of soft commitments, it makes the hard commitment that much easier. So it's like, yeah, I'm going to move. I'm just going to do this. Because eventually I'm like – you see through all the things that keep you in a place. Like my clients don't really need me. I don't – like I have online – I have broken enough of the things that I thought kept me in one spot. I was like, well, I'm only young once. Why would I not do this?

It's like as Mark literally went on a walk. It's like if I were you, this is a great place to move. I was like, oh, yeah. You'll find that people will say something to you and they say a lot of stuff and some things will stick with you. Like, well, what would it look like? And so then I was like, all right. Well, I just – I rent the house out and then just pack up the car. I don't need this furniture anyways.

And then you just end up doing it. And then by the time you've made this, it's like, oh, well, I've kind of already committed 60 percent of myself to doing this anyways. So like what's really holding me back? And then you start to see through those things. 60% of myself to doing this anyways. So like what's really holding me back? And then you start to see through those things. And I think that's been the – those two things have been the most helpful thing because I'm not that like bold or fearless.

I mean I still like to worry about a lot of stuff all the time. So it's not like I'm just – I'm going to do this. But I also thought in the back of my head like if I look back and told myself this story, like for both of you, for example, like you're now going to San Jose to travel, train with like guys that really push you in for jujitsu. You fucking moved to Ohio and you go with some crazy crackpot Louis Simmons. But like the example of like – I could either be the big fish in my pond because I own the house. I have my friend group that all look up to me.

I had my – all of them. Yeah, I'm talking to you. And then I had my gym. It was my gym with my equipment and my clients and I was the guy. And I was like, you know what? I've pretty much, I've reached the peak of being my guy in this space and it's like, if there's anything left, it's going to happen with a change. And I had lived in North Carolina for 28 years and I was like, well, you know what?

Whatever. Let's see what happens. Because the worst case, you know, you can always move back with mom and dad and mom still love me, even if I was gay. Which I'm straight for the end of this year at least. Yeah, I'll figure it out next year. But that's the point. So like – yeah, but I think that's a helpful realistic thing for most people thinking making decisions. It's never as bad as it is. But like the people who make decisions that are scary and bold, a lot of times it happens because things broke and cracked their version of life. They thought what happened and then they kind of make small commitments and they make it a little bit –

it makes it so much easier to move. By the time I moved over here, I had more friends here. I don't have many friends anyways. I just worked and worked out and did this stuff. But I had more friends here and more of a life here. So it's like it makes it really easy. But like you can kind of do that. So if you're not ready to – same with jiu-jitsu.

If you're really scared, figure out what it is you're scared about. If you're scared of lifting weight, if you're scared of going to If you're really scared, figure out what it is you're scared about. If you're scared of lifting weight, if you're scared of going to jiu-jitsu, like figure out what it is you're scared about and then find like 10 percent of that and start there. Eventually, after doing 10 percent and 20 percent, it's easier and you can kind of build your way up to like, wow, I've gotten 60 percent of the thing I was scared of. So like the soft commitments allow me to just make that hard commitment. And then eventually like you're packing up your car, driving through Texas. What are things that have worked well for you? and you're like, you're packing up your car, driving through Texas. What are things that have worked well for you?

Like especially when it comes to running. Like we've had David Weck here. We've had the Gota guys here. We've had a bunch of different people. You've gotten a lot of great information from like Ben Patrick. Oh, absolutely. What are some things that have like stuck? Like what are things that are like you tried them and it seems like they're having a pretty good outcome

and you're keeping them around. So the first one I have to say is sleep. Like there is the biggest difference in my performance. As much as I want to say the perfect training, all this stuff, it's like if I don't sleep, I'm a baby. That was the thing before Monday, daylight savings time. I got four hours of sleep because I was up thinking about running the whole night. It was like I went to bed at 4 a.m. I had to get up at 8 and it was like, but that's just as a bottom line.

And then nutrition. I think sleep and nutrition are like, this is the thing, it's crazy that there's so much like talk about nutrition. It should be so simple. I mean, like 2,000 years ago,

there wasn't any, just whatever was there, you ate. Pause just for a second. Your feet hurt because you're probably pretty heavy. It does. In a lot of cases.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. In a lot of cases. Oh, my gosh. Getting your diet right. You can't touch your toes. You can't sit on the ground. But the hard part is that things like the air you breathe, the light you're exposed to, the sleep you get, and the food you eat should be so basic that they should be zero thought. Well, other than attaining food, it's like food, air.

We shouldn't have to worry if the air is polluted or if the water is clean. Unfortunately, it is. That takes a lot of time and bandwidth. So once you kind of set in place, I have a water filter, I have air filter, I have a consistent food, I have connection to people and I sleep well, like that like right there will set up 90 percent of everything else. But from a training perspective, that was one of the things I was really blessed with is like – and I still am this way now.

Like you get the right person to train and I visited Joel Seidman. I've worked with – Joel Seidman, Ben Patrick, the Go-To Guys, David Weck. I mean I'm going to miss like 15 people, human garage people. Like every one of those people has something that's – if someone has – I would say I can't speak to everybody. But I would say 95 percent of the time, everybody that has met this has a large following. There's some really meaningful piece of truth that they have that is like, oh, yeah, that's really good. Hard part is when you get a business incentive behind it. Now you have to like say this is the only thing and you trash other people, then it's like not as valuable. But like from Joel Seaman, for example, starting to understand that there's different ranges you want

to load heavy. So like going to the box squad, stuff like that, like the box was just a valuable piece, but it's like getting a nine degree angle. Like that was super valuable for starting to load my body and maintain the strength and like this spinal loading, so to speak, without necessarily putting a joint through an unnecessary range of motion. Ben Patrick started to look at that full range of motion and restoring that. Kadoro Ziani, like the physical embodiment of relaxation. Human Garage people talking about fashion, sort of understand this, like, you know. I really like that concept of kind of grabbing and twisting the skin.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And you start to, that's been the most, I'm open to a lot of – like I don't really voice a lot of these things. But I'm open to a lot of really weird beliefs. And this is coming from a very like Southern Method Baptist orthodox, like very strict. Like this is right. This is wrong. Like that was me 20, 10 years ago.

And like now it's like, oh, my trauma's torn my big toe. Like the stars are aligning. My trauma's torn my big toe. Like, you know, it's like the stars are aligning. My trauma's toward my big toe. I don't – here's the thing. As a tourist, I don't know if my meridian lines – I don't know. Apparently it goes through your spleen. What's the thing under your – your spleen as well as your –

Is that why it hurts so bad when you stub your toe? Oh, yeah. A lot of trauma there. Yeah. So I have my fear of my left shoulder. But this is the thing. As a tourist, apparently, like the meridian lines that go around like the rectus, the biceps femoris and the outside of the leg, like the lateral component of that, as well as your spleen. All I know is that when I massage them, they're really stiff and tight.

And it happens to be the tourist. I have no idea whatsoever. And I have no claim. I could never make that. But – A human garage would be on a horoscope stuff in accordance to certain – And who knows? I don't – this is like I have no idea.

I cannot prove it right or wrong. I just know it's – some things from every single one of these people have been valuable. And I will say – By the way, for everyone that's into it, Mark's a Sagittarius, Andrew's an Aries, Graham's a Taurus, and I'm a Virgo. So go look that up. Yay. furco so don't look that up yay but like i will say as i've done these fascial maneuvers which is twisting like grabbing and just exploring your body anytime i find a stiff point it is always correlated with some limiting belief or challenging decision or have something i have to do and most

of the biggest changes in my mindset and thinking have started after doing that stuff i can't say more to the veracity of anything i just know from a lived experience, it has just done wonders for me. And I'm also – we got to the point like whatever. I'm open. Like I will try whatever and I mean whatever at least once. I joke around. But like you said, Human Garage has a lot of really cool stuff and I think a really cool thing is that their whole program is free.

I know. It's like they're not charging people for it. Like they take donations. They sell certain supplements. But if you want to learn about their fashion maneuvers, you go to their page. It's like they're not charging people for it. Like they take donations. They sell certain supplements. But if you want to learn about their fascial maneuvers, you go to their page. You click a link and then you'll have access to everything. They give it to you.

Some of their principles are so simple too. Like some of the stuff with just breathing and twisting. You sit down in a chair and you go to twist and you can only move so much. Then you work on your breathing. You can move more and more and more. Simple. Simple stuff. And then David Weck and Chris Chamberlain.

Chris Chamberlain is one of the smartest guys. He's just like – he's like Dr. – I just imagine – Eroding weakness on Instagram. Check him out. When he talks about things, I just imagine Dr. – you know Dr. Strange like has spells and there's all these like weird things going around. And I just look at Chris Chamberlain and he's talking about like you're steering in a rotation. I'm just thinking – in his head he's like, and I'm like,

what? You know, but like between them and the Gota guys and like, I mean, Les Spellman, like phenomenal,

like it's just- Kelly Sturette. Kelly Sturette. Kelly Sturette. Oh my God. Like I, this is the thing I feel, it's a shame trying to list this,

but like the people I've gotten to meet and learn from is just, so there's two parts of that which i think are valuable is one like i i think really what matters is like if you're so for example you could try the human garage thing it's like if we make a list of like grand sayings there's one thing there's two parts that i think are really valuable to that it should be like a counter to how he's flying out of his big toe. See, it serves two purposes. One of which is that there's two parts of why I do the two parts.

One of which is I get to say something, but I've also reserved the fact that I can say it again. So that even if I'm wrong, I've guided verbal jujitsu down so that you forgot what I said. I'm telling you, I'm black belt with three stripes, baby. The point is... We're going to title the episode that. There's two parts. The first part is there's the value of all these things. The second part is the belief really matters. Like when I have met these people, the most consistent thing about every single one from Joel Seaman to the white guys, people that like – it's the equivalent of like a carnivore and a vegan.

They fucking believe that the stuff they do works. And I have – from a coaching perspective, seeing Joel Seaman work with some of his athletes, oh, yeah, that was fun. Of course, he goes, forgive your father. This is his passion. And who knows? I have poor memories. There's probably some trauma in there. But that – after – I felt like a new person after that whole weekend with him.

And there's something about that. It's being held by your grown man. It's something swell. But like held by your grown man is something swell. But like, I can't, I can't, this is the thing. Rocking you like a baby.

I can't convince you that that does anything. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, I relinquished myself and submitted to the fact that I'm open for whatever. And that's the thing. Like, for example,

going to see people that go work with Joel Seaman, that man cares. I have like, he could have told me to jump to the roof and I'm like, yeah, but he's like, good, good,

good. All right, hold this. And Ben Patrick, the people that are the most profound in terms of the voices they do, they, they believe so strongly. And there's like,

you know, definitely an interesting component that I think people are latching on to the fact that someone else believes about something, you know, people like go through life and they'd struggle to find meaning or any type. And they find someone else that holds onto something like like i don't know whether you're saying anything is real or not but you believe it's so strong like with the you believe with the conviction i could one day hope to possibly have and i think that's like a ben patrick you know the people that are

really there that people really follow it's like there's something about like their stone wall their walls they're they're like they are really hold that and so you know when you do this it doesn't necessarily i think the value is like the belief can also be a trap because they can also get you stuck. Like I only do this stuff. That's the big – and that's why I like – first off, I like the way you think about this because you're doing a lot of the same things we do. But you're also just going out and training with those people. But for example, the Seidman thing, there's a lot of good to what Seidman is doing and he believes it. But then you go and you train with Ben Patrick and Ben believes in a lot of stuff he's doing.

But Seidman would be like, no, that's messed up because of this. Right. But no, we can see where a lot of Ben Patrick stuff is really fucking beneficial along with Human Garage. Right. People look at some of this stuff and they'll take an initial look and be like, ah, no, no, no, that's bullshit. Right. And you don't allow yourself to see how beneficial this can be for your body. So that's a really cool aspect of what you're doing.

Like you can see where all of these things are really fucking beneficial, but it's not good to let yourself get trapped by believing it's the only way to do it. Yeah, and that's the thing is you realize that like everybody else is just a human like you. So there's some part where like no one knows the full thing, so to speak. But you look at like the go-to guys would say patrick and seaman are both wrong because they're not teaching the coiling process so like that's not wrong either that's pretty true you know you look at david whack the header and chris chamber the head of her toe balance in this coiling which is a landmine university like the people talking about that so it's like you think of each of these is like they're like you know there's the story there's

hindu story like you know no one knows the truth because everyone is holding a different part of the elephant. Someone thinks it's a snake. Someone thinks it's like a – I don't know, a tree trunk. Someone thinks it's like a wall because they're all touching different parts. And the moral of the story is like no one can know what it is. It's like, well, someone does because someone is looking and seeing that they're all people holding an elephant. They're blind men holding an elephant is the essence of the story. And so because each one has a different part of such a large structure, they think they have truth.

But because they all don't realize that the bigger picture, they say, oh, no one can know truth. But like the point of the story is being told from someone who can see it. Therefore, it kind of is a moot point. But within that, it's like if you're open to look at these pieces and I think of each one as a framework. It's like it costs you – it could either cost you time or money. And I think of each one as a framework. It's like it costs you – it could either cost you time or money. You can either go and spend time like learning it yourself and try and practice and like hopefully kind of figure things out or do what I did.

Buy a plane ticket. Provide value for – and it gets easier as you have some of the social media stuff. But like I show up and I still like I'm here. Let me – I'm doing whatever. I 100 percent submit to the process and it's like I'm going to learn. I'm going to – like that's a hard thing for me to shut up and just not talk. I don't have my own podcast. I just talk and other people spend.

Like within that, it's like it's – if you go and you're willing to just spend time and spend money and time like put it together, like I'm going to go and like pay you for your time to honor the fact that you're giving me energy and then I'm going to like trust – be open enough to see what happens without having to hold on to the outcome. Like that's been really valuable. So that – of all those things, like I've learned so much. And that's the hard part now is like I have a lot of things that I'm like I feel like – actually, I feel less prepared to be a personal trainer than at any other point. Like I feel less qualified. If someone comes in and walks in, like I used to like been doing it for 10 years.

You walk in like, I'm going to be the best one you ever had. It's going to be great. Ten seconds. It's like you go through that. It's like you think it's going to be a – see, I got that. You think it's going to be a great – like I'm going to be able to fix your problems. We're going to – you wait. I'm going to tell you all the answers, tell you how things are going to be.

And at this point, I'm like, I don't have to tell you. But we're going to – I'll show you some of the things that make me feel good and it's like – and hopefully I can get you to like tap into some of the wonder and curiosity about your body and then get you started on that. But it's like I can't do it for you and I think that's the hard part. It's very humiliating because most personal trainers, the best thing they're going to do is like give someone hope and encouragement. And the worst thing you can do is give someone a bunch of rules that they have to follow because that's like – you get them to believe in themselves again. But it's a very hard thing to get someone to believe in themselves without then like transferring that's like you get them to believe in themselves again but it's a very hard thing to get someone to believe in themselves without then like transferring that belief to you it's like

i don't you know if someone comes in and work with them it's like i don't want you to they need they start because they believe in you but you want to get them to transfer the belief into themselves and say yeah i learned things and i can go do it and that's very hard to do and i think you know anytime an industry is set up with an incentive that is propagated by the continuing of the relationship or therapy or personal training or whatever it is, like physical therapy. And it can be done. It can be done with the most noble things ever. But if you go and someone like, all right, well, this is kind of a lifetime thing and I'm not empowering you to go do this yourself.

Very hard. But that's like a very alien human incentive. Like I'm going to take the thing that's giving me money that allows me to have food and shelter. And I'm going to say, I'm going to stop this willingly at a certain point because it's in your best interest. That's very hard to do. And I think that's the hard underlying that incentive of most coaching and most life coaching growth is like you go from something, which is a tangible, I need to lose 10 pounds. And then you can say, yeah, but you need to also grow and be a spiritual individual. And like you become to make this thing less tangible and more elusive and never like there's never a finite point. that's a hard thing and so as i've let go of this i need to

have the answers because i have to definitively be able to tell you why you should come back and pay me as you've let go of the the the small paradigm within which i see things like health nutrition exercise whatever it is the answers to the problems you have okay so if i you you let's just say i don't know whatever it is any number of these books or whatever like i have the answer to the problem you have the only if I – let's just say – I don't know. Whatever it is, any number of these books or whatever, like I have the answer to the problem you have. The only reason you're talking to me to begin with because if you were fully happy, you would A, use language to talk and B, you wouldn't be interested in me because I would have – for me to interact with you, you have something that I want, which is something I either want to esteem after. Like for example, if I were to – the people you talk to, you have something in common at the very least. If I – the only reason I'm talking to a real estate agent, I'm not talking to them right now because I'm not looking for a house. But if I were, then all of a sudden I'm interested in that.

I thought I'll solve that. Well, now I should figure out taxes and you go through these phases. But it's all – someone has something to offer you. And that's the hard part is like in that relationship, we have status. We have identity built in and it's like we have to have the answer because if I go to say – what housing market should I go invest in? I don't know. They're all pretty good.

You're like – immediately. So we're gravitating to the person. This is the belief thing. We gravitate to the people who are most convicted in telling us the answers and that answers have to have an end point because if I say I've got one point on the spectrum that goes forever, you're like – it takes a really open person to be able to sit which i think you two have manifested or you three have manifested the skill of like you have people come in and you're easily able to pick from the tree and put it in there knowing that there's no end points to this thing it's a continuous go but

you're just getting a prettier rainbow in a sense it's like most people like nope red's the only color is and not even those shades of red this red you 38 B6 FF. That's my favorite blue. Um, like that's the thing. And so in order for me to prevent for like to promote certainty, I have to limit the options. And then that's tough. Cause it's like, that does not let you open your mindset. And so then you're very shut down to things.

And then it's like your body reflects that. It's like, ah, I don't know. I'm not going to do that. And so then it's interesting, which is like, yo,

38 B6 FF really is that color blue. That is your favorite color blue? I have – in my free time, I build my online business. And a lot of the things – you go through these pieces. I love that. There it is. But like in that – That's a deep cut, bro.

That's why I was like, did you just do it? So that's where I look at people that really are able to manage. So this is – Mark said this. This is one of our – a while ago. But it's like the dinner table. Like how is someone at their dinner table? It's not, can you go and do this specific thing? Can you go and like put it together for one aspect? What do you look like as a deep multidimensional purpose? And I think that's really valuable. It's like someone like Cador, like when I can see and there's something about, you can study

and listen and learn. Like, this is amazing. People go buy books all the time. Just go listen to the last five podcasts I did. You're going to learn what they're thinking, how they're thinking, and the way they word it. It's unbelievable how much you can learn. Once you've done that, then buy the book and see like a codified way

that they've put it out there. And then it's like pay them for a coaching hour. Go visit them. Do something to provide value for them. But like- Also start truly applying certain concepts that you're hearing. Yes, exactly.

I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot lot of listening to certain things and then we're like, that's cool. But then there's a lack of taking action on that or a lack of taking action consistently. Because you might do some of these postures that Kador talks about. One day you're like, oh, this is great. It hurts. It's working. And then you fall off of it for like three months. But you'll see the benefit of that type of thing when you put it into a habit of something you do at least once a day or a little bit each day.

We could go on for forever. But one thing I think is valuable to bring is like the pain of change in a sense is like if your body is stiff to the point that – let's say you're big toe for example. We're on the trauma store. point that let's say your big toe for example or where all my trauma stored um the is held in a position based off the stiffness of the residual tear the the the closed tissue in proximity meaning like my big toe is the way it is because of the way it is like simply put so for me to change that i have to not only change the text like the stimulus i put on my big toe but also the way i sit the way i move and there will be pain because that pain is involved in change yeah it doesn't necessarily mean injury.

People like pain is this contracting stimulus. It is any, there's pain and numbness. And this is kind of like, it's not pain and pleasure. It's pain and numbness. Pain is any stimulus. Pleasure could be a form of pain. But by pain, I don't mean like there's pain in an owie that hurts. But anything that grabs your attention.

Like if something feels good enough, you're like, ooh, I like that. You know, like that's a pain because it just grabbed you. And the opposite of pain is numbness. And so people think, oh, I just don't want pain anymore. It's like, well, you don't want any sensation? You don't want any stimulus? So I have to do something that causes a stimulus in my body that causes a change.

And so that is going to cause an uncomfort, a discomfort because I'm no, I'm dis, I'm not in my comfort zone. And so I think that's the hard part is like as you go through this stuff, you can become a pain junkie and start to really go into that and you can ignore all the pain too. But it's like there's a part of it. If you make the change, listen to it. But you also have to like put it in there and be patient.

This is where systems or like social supporters, something comes in. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. One note about like, you know, what you mentioned about because you've mentioned Goggins a few times, right? We've talked about him a little bit and he has his like, you know, he has his knee stuff and his, some of the pain that he's dealing with and walks around with on a daily basis. But I think the way that he deals with pain is something that we can all learn from and probably use a little bit. Like I noticed that when something happens in my ankle or my back or whatever, instead of

starting to avoid that, I kind of lean into it a little bit and see what can I manage? How bad is this really? You notice when you warm up a little bit, it's not nearly as bad. And then over time it goes away rather than totally shying away from it. Now, I'm not saying that every time that we have pain or something that bothers us, we need to just dive in and run through it like Goggins does. us. We need to just dive in and run through it like Goggins does. But Goggins is a testament to how well the human being can deal with certain levels of potentially debilitating pain for other people. The way Goggins' body feels probably would have some people literally just sitting on a couch or in a wheelchair. But because of the way his mind probably deals with that pain,

he can deal with it, which shows that we can all, if we have a level of pain, there's probably a benefit in us instead of running away from it, leaning into it a little bit. Yeah, there's a reason why you produce dopamine when you move. Yeah. you go run and sometimes you're like what the hell my ankle is like really jacked up and then you stop and you walk for a minute and you jog lightly again and then you you're like this is really strange maybe i can't train today three minutes later you're running just fine and doesn't hurt at all but the thing is like ran it off you walked it off well that's yeah so the thing is goggins he's like an archetype for an extreme But I think also the pain of him dealing with his knee, like the pain of the alternative of not running is far outweighs the pain of his knee. Like meaning the inner demons, like the fear of like who he'll become if he stops running and gives in, like the inner bitch as he says.

Like that's terrifying to him more so than dealing with debilitating knee pain. And like I don't know if that ever changes but I think like he can continue to say, I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to this thing. So it doesn't matter if my knee's not even attached to my body. So like, that's another part too. But like, I think pain is an invitation to explore. It's a sensation. And so when you defang it with that, it gives your body a whole lot of opportunity.

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description as well as the podcast show notes. Give us a, on the way out of here, give us three shoes cause I know it's hard to just recommend one. Well, for what context? Give us three shoes just for, I don't know, people that might have some discomfort in their feet and just their, maybe their knees are back or bothering them and they haven't really looked into getting shoes other than like Nike and Reebok and all that stuff. All right. If I may, I'm going to do three categories. One for cleats because I just did a whole big deep dive on cleats and that's really valuable. One on like everyday and one on like performance.

So for cleats, I think it's – we'll do yours first. The everyday going around, the best shoe I could recommend to start as a transition, if let's say you're in a, there's four components of a good shoe. There's flat, meaning the heel and toe are on the same level. There's wide, meaning the toe box is wide enough. And there's a difference in distinction to be made between wide and foot shaped. Wide shoe, like the Brannick device is the thing that measures the foot. It just goes from the heel to the longest point. And it goes from across the metatarsals on the widest point. But you can just kind of make any adjustment and cut off like the big toe or the pinky toe in that.

So a foot shaped is when it's a little bit more loopy or like around, which ironically in the original last of people that make shoes that come to a point are literally done to signal wealth because if you had a shoe that was shaped at your foot, it'd signal you're poor. So it's ironic.

The only reason people don't have, I think that's switching is reverse signaling now. But so there's flat. There's wide or foot-shaped. There's flexible, meaning the foot can bend. The shoe can bend and allow your foot to get normal stimulus. And then there's thin on the bottom. That's the least important part because I think that this is where some of the stuff – like people get very masochistic.

I want to feel the ground. It's like, well, the second you have something in between your skin, you're not feeling the ground. If I wear like one of those work gloves, right? There's like the tight fitting ones that like let me grip. That's good, but I'm not feeling the thing. I still have to take them off to use my phone, for example. So there is a loss of sensory proprioception the second I take anything in between that. So the thinness is probably the least important of those pieces.

So if you're in a place where you're stuck and you're stiff and you just want to get the health of your feet, don't worry about jumping in this thinness. But if you get the wide – the flat thin or the flat wide and flexible, an ultra, solstice, escalante, those are two different variables, are going to be my favorite option for that because they're foot-shaped. They're flexible. They got some padding, about 22 to 24 millimeters. Say that again.

Ultras, the Escalantes or the Solstice. Yeah. It's the Solstice XT or the Racer and then they're the Ultra, the Escalante 2.5 or whatever it is. Those are a few options in there. But anything from Ultra is good, the Lone Peak for that stuff. And I just say that as a general shoe for like walking around and moving is having some padding and stuff like that. There's other companies – I mean I'm a big Vibram five-finger toe guy.

Like that's been my ultimate thing. But you're still on the ground. You have to realize that the ground ain't soft and you have to be willing to do that. So that's the thing with Zero and Vivo and all these other shoes. Like if it's real thin, you just got to be willing to feel the ground. And sometimes, as Mark said, it's like, it's nice to have a little bit of cushion, especially if you're standing on your feet.

You know, those are things like Vivo, for example, like, you know, there's different variations of Vivos that like this has got a thicker. Those are the primus trails. Yeah. So like you can get something like that. It's still flexible. I mean, this thing is still flexible,

but the padding underneath can be a little more. It's not support. That's the thing under people. Like it's not support. It's just a little bit of softness. It just gets you, but the padding underneath can be a little more. It's not support. That's the thing under people. It's not support. It's just a little bit of softness. It just gets you a little bit of space kind of sinking in the ground or something. Do you like the scent right there? I use it barefoot.

You know what? It smells like 99% Nigerian purebred. I take offense to that. No, I'm joking. I am purebred. Thank you very much. We don't know what 1% is. Is it 99.99?

99.99. There you go. Really? Yeah. I didn't know it was a.9. That's weird. No, I'm joking. I am purebred. Thank you very much. We don't know what 1% is. 99.9. I didn't know it was a.9. Yep, yep. These are going to be good, but honestly, I just tell everybody, go to the Ultra Solstice. At that point, if you want to do something, I think the ultimate gym shoe is a Vibram FiveFinger because it is like a work glove for your foot. You can literally grab the ground.

You can get all those toes moving. In that context, it's really what you're doing. I know Icarus has a great, like, you know, everyday shoe that looks decent. There's a lot of those companies, but in general,

once you have that principle there, anything you'd throw in there as an alternative? No, I think what you mentioned is great. The Vibrams are a great option too for some people that want to get more into it. Yeah, that's my go-to and maybe get better capacity with their feet.

But I also think for people that have pain, it would be great for them to explore. Like just identify the fact that your feet probably don't ever really touch the actual ground. Yeah, which needs to happen, but that's a separate conversation. And try to get some exposure to it here and there. Which needs to happen, but that's a separate conversation. And try to get some exposure to it here and there. And so from that point, the running side is like I think like a lighter ultra. Like I think those are going to be good for hard surfaces, long distance, like mid to long distances on like built ground. But when you look at – this is the thing too.

There's a competition versus like a training shoe. So you look at a carbon fiber plate shoe, you might think, oh, that's crazy. shoe. So you look at a carbon fiber plate shoe, you might think, oh, that's crazy. But in some context, if you're going to run the Boston Marathon on pavement, it's like, well, I'm going to go and do an unnatural thing on an unnatural surface for an unnatural reason. It's like, it doesn't, this is the thing, it doesn't mean that you can't do it barefoot. You can't, like, you can do all these things. But the question is, do you have the training, the time? Do you, have you deserved, does your tissue deserve that to be able to go do that? Like have you earned the right to do that?

And do you have the interest to do it? So, you know, it's like I think people get dogmatic. Like you have to do this. It's like if you want to go run, the super shoes are called super shoes for a reason. I've tried those things on. It's silly how much they literally just do the running for you. I want to quickly note what you said right there is super important. Have you earned the right to do this?

For example, the amount of mileage that you're currently running like i remember when i've tried to do certain things especially in barefoot shoes last year or the year before that i didn't earn the right to do it my feet were feeling really beat up i needed to you know i needed to train my feet a bit more and have them get stronger to earn the right to do more mileage or do more things with barefoot shoes on so yeah this shit takes time is pretty much what that means. Yeah. Jump roping barefoot could be a much better – like jumping roping barefoot on like turf or on grass is a phenomenal way to do it. No one ever thinks about that.

Well, people do. But I don't know. It's not popular because it's not a product. Notice that everything anyone tries to sell you is always a product. I always buy my thing. It's like, of course. But jump roping or like jump bouncing, you don't have to jump rope. You can just bounce in place and just do that for like 20 or five minutes a day or as Matt

Troy did, 2,000 a day. I wouldn't do 2,000 a day for a month. But like do something like that for an extended period of time is great. So that's a big piece. For example, I had my five fingers on. I was doing hill sprints up this like paved asphalt hill. I stepped on a rock. I'm sprinting and boom, right in that.

I had a lump in like that Morton's neuroma area for a month and it hurt. I'm not going to be up here and say it didn't hurt. I cried. I was like, it hurt so bad. It's like a tougher jujitsu. It kind of hurts. But the point is that like these things hurt and if someone looks at you and says – if when you see me walk on gravel in those, it's still uncomfortable.

It still doesn't feel great. Like it's, you know, your feet don't get less sensitive. Like people that have been lifelong barefooters, they have thicker calluses, but they still feel it. You don't want to lose that sensation. But it's like that's just having a relationship with the uncomfort, the discomfort is there. So from a training perspective, it really depends on your surface. If it makes sense in competition, use a super shoe. It's not going to be in the world.

Just take it off when you finish. And then from a general training perspective i think that barefoot running is a great way to do strength training there's a reason i do it partly to kind of i have to be the extreme in a sense to show up but like running on a track on a safe surface like you're gonna make your feet super strong and it makes you a better runner not because your feet are what are doing it but because it's like there's so many things that when you run barefoot you really hard to mess it up in a sense especially if you like start to do it with some consistency. But I think if you want to do this like a trail, like having something that's a little lower to the ground like a Vivo trail, the Vibram FiveFingers, you got to play the V-Run, V-Track, V-Alpha, V-Aqua, a million different variations.

But – or 20. But like those are going to be options. But it really depends on the surface. And I think Mark has got a really good point with this. So like treat shoes like technology in a sense. Like trade them in and out. If you have the opportunity – like if you – your feet can do everything. So that's the important thing.

It's like that's the true variable. You don't need to buy anything to do this. You just have to earn that and start way back if you want to use your feet for that. But if you have the time, the resources, you're interested, it's your hobby, have a few different tools in your bag. You know, like you're going to – if you're going to be a gardener, you're going to have a hoe. You're going to have a rake. You're going to have a shovel. You're like – I don't want to make a hoe joke so badly.

I don't want to ruin the quality. But the point is – We all thought it. We all thought it. You thought it. So the point is that you can treat it like technology and have a few options. And then from the last part, the cleats, there is no way around it. Cleats increase your injury risk point blank.

If you wear a cleat, you have a higher injury risk. From loaded – the more traction – everything that makes your cleat more of a cleat increases the joint loading in the ankle and knee, increases the torque as you rotate, and it makes an unnatural relationship with your foot to the ground, period. Now, does that mean that – because they'll say it improves your performance and it reduces your injury from slipping and falling. Well, you're going to do – like if I have a cleat – for example, if my car has better grip, I'm going to drive faster on a curve. So does that mean that me going – my rate of injury is a little the same. It's like if I'm barefoot, it might change it. That being said, most sports are compulsory with cleats and people like the ability. They get used to it and it's how they do it.

It's tough too. The cleat thing is tough because like so many sports, soccer, football, all these – Rugby. All these field sports, the cleat shape, it just dominated those sports for such a long time that you wonder will – like is there a way to actually change that? So that's – there are companies now that are doing that, which is one of the things I'm excited about. But the idea is like these companies, 1920s – well, third century BC, the Romans were the first one that they could cleave. But like it wasn't until the 18th century that the King Henry had a sport made for shoe because you think about the luxury of having a sport for shoe. I mean a shoe for sport.

You think about the luxury of just having a shoe for sport. But you don't have that money until like 1920s. You have the first specific like ballet shoes, ice hot, like they're just for sport. And so now you have all these changes and things that are going. But it's like as your thermoplastic, moldable, removable studs start to pick up, you have artificial turf, you have different surfaces,

all kinds of things that have changed it. But the companies that make these cleats, Nike bought their lasts, that are the thing you form the shoe around from Asics. Asics bought it from Puma and Adidas. Adidas, which was formerly Gata, made their last in the 1920s based off the last that were made beforehand.

And what are they making shoes for? Wealthy people who wanted to have shoes and who could afford it. And so the – how high the shoe came up on your calf, the color of the shoe, the material, like the shape of it. We don't think – chiral shoes, which are like – they're not symmetrical but they're mirrored. It didn't happen until the Romans created that. Like there's so many things that like you look at the shoes to lift off the ground, how high you get off the ground. It's all for status. It has nothing to do with performance. If you had shoes that looked like a foot, it meant you were poor. That's the crazy part. So it has nothing to do with function or performance. So our entire cleat industry,

every soccer player, and this is probably the bone I'm going to have to pick for the next year, but every soccer player goes, no, I like a tight fit. You've never had another option. It's like being in an abusive relationship and you're like, no, I like a tight fit. You've never had another option. It's true. It's like being in an abusive relationship and you're like, no, I like it when he hits me. It's like you've never been in a healthy relationship. No, I like chocolate vanilla, chocolate ice cream. Well, you've never had vanilla. Like you've never even had – there's never been an option available until now. Vanilla ice cream is good.

But if you've never had any other option, you think that like – what is that? Shaved ice? But the point is this company's code footwear is now like they're the ones that made they're expensive but it's absolutely an investment if you're a professional athlete like these police would have run me i'm doing testing with them and i'm cute but i got a pretty face cute face and a big face cute face little wasted big behind can you show your phone screen real quick oh i'll have it with me damn it man we'll do it but it's uh it's a picture of me looking very stern

and masculine. I'll use it for the thumbnail. Yeah, please. That could be, yeah. No, you actually may be. I don't know. We'll see.

We get too many downloads? I think we should use it. You think it'll work? All right. They would be anywhere from $800 to $1,200 for these. But if you're a professional athlete and you're serious about your sport,

it is the single best thing you could invest in because these things feel like an extension of my body. My foot, they are literally molded to my exact foot. And I feel like my foot, there's no crunching the toes. They're playing around with things like metatarsal

pads and toe spacers to fill in the space so you can still make shapes with your foot inside the shoe. The thing that's crazy, so I got these Nikes I went and bought for this YouTube video which is going to go deep dive on this stuff. The Nike Mercurials, 3.5 inches at the widest. 3.5. These shoes that are made Mercurials, 3.5 inches at the widest. 3.5. These shoes that are made for my foot, 4.5 inches.

That is an inch, an entire inch that is lost. And so people don't think, they just think it's tight, but there's this doming that happens with your foot. So the metatarsals squeeze and press up. That means my arch can't collapse. My foot can't spread. My toes get smashed in. My literal bones can only,

the bones can only be compressed in. So they lift up. And so I'm no longer able to hit the ground. So I'm't spread. My toes get smashed in. My literal bones can only – the bones can only be compressed in. So they lift up. And so I'm no longer able to hit the ground. So I'm running around. That would be like trying to punch and do things like this with my hands. Your foot expands a lot when you hit the ground. Oh, my gosh. And that's the rotation. So when you step, normally the foot would twist and rotate, but it gets stuck.

So all that torque is put on the knee and hip and you start pushing off the inside of the foot as opposed to lifting off the middle of the foot. Go to CODE. Oh, yeah. C-O-D-E underscore F-T-W-R on Instagram. So they're now at the point where they've got – and the thing that's cool is that because they literally – I went to have a visit to them. They have 3D printers just running. It's a crazy story. It's really cool. But every single shoe they make, they learn something new.

Like they can talk about what your surface is. But they can continue. They can make prototypes. It's not like any other company where Nike has – they have to make 200,000 of these shoes and you have different SKUs, different colors. That's the thing is you think why are there no inventions on cleats? Because it's costly. It's code FTW? FTWR.

Okay. It's making sure. And an underscore. If you think about the risk a company would have to take – because in the 60s and 70s, they had this turntable. So it was a little resisted wheel that allowed you to like press on the ground to kind of twist the shoe underneath you. It was a little round table. I think, well, why don't they make that? Because they did studies and it took 15 percent of all athletes that were wearing regular cleats in the study got injured and 5 percent.

So it was a 200 percent injury decrease. Why don't they make that? Well, you think of a company, they didn't have the technology and also are they going to invest this much money into a cleat that doesn't sell because it's scary and different? I wouldn't have had to have foot surgery if something like Code Footwear existed because my cleats – I played soccer for 15 years and every single cleat I got just pushed my toes in and caused me to – Sure, it's so bad. Exactly. That's what caused my surgery. So it's just like if – first, I get this is fucking expensive, $800 to $1,200.

Well, the Nikes are like $300 too. That's the silly thing. But even good Nike cleats are like $150, $200. I mean, you can get $300 Nike cleats, but you can get very good cleats for like an eighth of the code footwear price. But the thing is, this kind of thing can save an athlete's foot.

Yeah, it would have prolonged Patrick Willis' career. So their cool thing is they do that and they also do basketball shoes. And so once they have the model for your shoe, they can do everything else. But like KD rolling his ankle because his shoes are too stiff. But you realize like the product of a shoe – and these are interesting. They're expensive, but you pay for the quality. It's hand-cobbled. They literally build it themselves at this point.

So it's like – It's cool that they're making basketball shoes and all these other shoes too. It looks good. All this shit looks pretty dope. But that's because... So the looking good is a big part because the guy worked at Nike

and he worked for Jordan. Like, there is an aesthetic about it. That's the biggest thing. People are like, oh, we want functional feet. No one cares about how you wiggle your toes. They want it to look good.

They want it like... There's an aesthetic that matters and I think that gets lost in most of this stuff. Oh, absolutely, dude. So, like, it needs to look good. The point is, you'll see more of this stuff

taking off. And now that it's a lower cost to market, you're going to see shoes like a – you could theoretically take a Vivo or a Vibram and like put a – those sons of a bitch. So like Nature Athletics, N-A-T-U-R Athletics, they're starting to make – like they have cleats in production working the stuff and they are great options for kids. But – that's cute. great options for kids. But it's cute. So like the thing is that you're going to start to see a change in the market, but it's going to take time for athletes that are at risk of losing their whole career because,

you know, they just can't have another injury. It's going to start to change that, like the, the function. But you know, the tough thing is like for most young athletes, they're not looking at like how they go.

I went shopping in this shoe store nearby, soccer cleat store. And I'm talking to the guy. He's like, oh, yeah, they do this. I'm asking, what have you ever thought about these things? These people that sell us shoes, you go to a running shoe store. You think you're talking – this is like going to a car and expecting the car salesman is a mechanic or an expert about the car. They just know some facts about the car and they probably have never even driven it in most cases.

And maybe in a car, there's only like eight models or brands. But it's like we ask them. We want to be guided through the shopping process because we're scared because we're spending money and it's an expenditure of our energy. So we go say there's like 15 different cleat options and like I kind of like Nike. So I'm going to go look at those, which are the options. The person is just someone that sells shoes. And we don't think they have known nothing about foot mechanics and they've been told a lie. There's this YouTube video. I was doing this doing this research i'm sorry i get a little passionate

about this but this guy goes you do not have wide toe box shoes he is a guy who makes soccer review videos and he was saying that he had worked at a shoe store measure people every time he's like yeah every single time people say i need a wide toe box clean i can't figure out something that works and you go what you know they always fit in the shoes like it doesn't matter if you can squeeze a little foot in there. It matters if that thing is completely neutering your foot. But we trust these department stores that go in. They're going to tell us what the right thing is.

They have no idea. They're just glorified salespeople. And I don't want to sound pejorative towards that, but we offload our common senses and say, is it comfortable? No, there's more than that. And it's like you go to these Nikes. My feet were – I tried them on to wear them so I could really be honest about the feedback. It's like it was crazy. Like my foot was aching.

So like you could go down that. But from a cleat perspective, if you are at all serious about what you're doing, code footwear, you cannot beat that because it is literally for your foot. And once they have it, then they can make everything. They can make custom toe spacers. The metatarsal pads are really interesting because you can take the hard, firm bottom of a cleat, which doesn't matter how good it is. It's still a firm bottom that's always there. So if I step this way and I go and turn, internally rotate the turn and I pivot, instead of my foot being able to sink into the ground, that hard plastic isn't moving. So it's stuck. And now my foot is everted and rotating out,

putting all that pressure into the lateral components of the ankle. So meaning I want to push and go inside, move medially, but my ankle is being pushed outside, especially if that's not a, if I'm slipping or stepping on someone's ankle, that's a, that's a recipe for a sprain right there. That's the nature of the plastic bottom of the cleat. So there's only so much you can do there, which is why like cleats, unfortunately are there.

But if it's part of your sport and you're a professional athlete, I cannot recommend enough. Just buy them once. They've lasted. I've put them through some tests and they're great. That being said, from a reasonable thing for kids and nature athletics and there will be other – they're still in the beta production. So they have to buy the last piece by piece. And so it's not 100 percent available right now. But there will be companies that start to do this and say, oh, yeah, it ain't going to be Nike.

It ain't going to be Adidas. There will be companies that start to do this and say, oh, yeah, it ain't going to be Nike. It ain't going to be Adidas. And past that, from an immediate thing, New Balance is my absolute favorite conventional cleat company because they offer consistent wide toe box shoes. Now, that means specifically it's one-half inch wider. So growing from a size D to a 2E, the width is one-half. It makes all the difference in the world. I'm telling you. It's still not foot-shaped, so your pinky toes are still going to get curled.

It makes all the difference in the world. I'm telling you. It's still not foot-shaped, so your pinky toes are still going to get curled. But if you get shoes, maybe size up half a size. The New Balance consistently offers a wide toe box, which I think is phenomenal. If you're going to buy conventional cleats, they have soccer. They have all the different ones. Go New Balance. So those are going to be huge.

And it is – when you're performing at the highest quality – that's like saying if you're a race car driver. Yeah, I know the tire is a little slippery, but you didn't want to invest in the water tires it's like what so you crash your car it's like the cost of these things is your career or surgery it ain't fun so you know but it really really really really matters what you do with that so take us on out of here andrew all righty um really quick though i don't know if you guys have seen this when you were talking about the color picker thing um i don't know if you guys did you if you see if you saw this i don't have to say anything but i don't know this so it's just a a chick on tiktok doing dumb tiktok shit i don't you know it's tiktok or whatever my tiktok does not look like this at all man so

somebody responds it's definitely ff9484 it's like what what and it's it's the hex code hex code for pink talking about her vagina color and i thought that was funny that's like what what and it's it's the hex code hex code for pink talking about her vagina color and i thought that was funny that's like three levels deep how long have you been singing he just checked out the podcast like an hour and a half ago he's like i got a joke i got a joke no no i just i was like dude i was like what the fuck so i was trying to figure out how the fuck do i even search for that and then i think i just typed in hex code uh pink vagina and it came up on know your meme so and that's how i was able to find it are they all the same color though i would think that there'd be variation yeah but it's just that's like the meme now is you you

lay out that hex code and everyone's like ah he's talking about her color you know what's worse is that i've been referring to this for so long that it's going to come full circle and people are going to think i'm dog whistling about something like five years ago. And they're like, some blue, it's going to be like lit for like white supremacy or something. Oh, no. I was your first man. I see what you mean. Like the okay sign or whatever.

Did you watch that documentary? Which one? It's on Netflix right now. I forgot. Oh. Like a QAnon thing or something? No, it's not Netflix. It's HBO.

It's about like cancel culture and there was this mexican guy who was he was canceled in 2020 because someone took a picture of him do you remember like he was he had his hand out his window and he was just like this because he just has a tick where he just he goes like this with his hands mexican man he goes like this with his hand and somebody took a fucking picture of this dude with like this yeah and apparently this right here is like a white supremacy group sign thing they took a picture of this guy in his work truck it got posts on social media again this man is mexican but he kind of looks kind of white but he's mexican he gets fired from his job people online are calling him a racist and he can't get a job for a while because people think he's some white supremacist.

But he's like, I'm Mexican and I have a fucking tick with my hand where I go like this. It was so fucked up. HBO, there's a cancer documentary, but that's crazy. All right. Make sure you guys head over to powerproject.life

for everything podcast related. Follow the podcast at MB Power Project all over the place. My Instagram is at IamAndrewZ. And Seema, where are you at? Discord's down below, guys. Let us know if you're going to start jiu-jitsu. And Seema, ending on Instagram and YouTube.

And Seema, yin-yang on TikTok and Twitter. Mr. Barefoot Sprinter, where can people find you? At The Barefoot Sprinter. I think I got it on YouTube now, too. It's YouTube, Instagram. And then, yeah. Those would be good. Strength is never weakness.

Weakness is never strength. I'm at Mark Smiley Bell. Catch you guys later. Bye.