Mark Bell's Power Project - Man Identifies As Woman To Destroy Woman's Bench Record. Our Thoughts

Starting point is 00:00:00 So this video, you have to check it out. We got a link below. It's from Nate the lawyer. Something just happened where a man competed in a competition. He's not actually trans, but within the rule set, he was able to identify if it's a woman and potentially break some records. So let's check this out. What? So this male powerlifter entered the women's event and broke all the records. Let's talk about it. I don't know if I'd be able to break any records.

Starting point is 00:00:28 So this is Avi Silverberg. He is the head coach for Team Canada's powerlifting team, and he's been in that position for about 10 years. Now, this is the Canadian Powerlifting Union and their trans inclusion policy. so without reading the entire policy it essentially says that an athlete gets to tell the organizers what their gender identity is and the organizers have to allow them to participate in the events with the gender that they identify with so if you're a biological male and you say i identify as a woman then they must allow you to compete with the women in that event we've had janae crock on the podcast and janae formerly matt crock she's a woman, then they must allow you to compete with the women in that event. We've had Janae Kroc on the podcast and Janae, formerly Matt Kroc, she's a woman and she said that she chooses not to compete on the woman's side of anything because of all of

Starting point is 00:01:17 the advantages that she's attained, right? So what I brought up with her was something kind of that that's kind of odd because you know none of the guys on the male side of powerlifting are afraid of anybody uh transitioning and identifying as male and competing with men none of the men's that have none of the men that have records are scared but this is something that mainly could affect female records you know yeah and i think the reason for that is like just on a biological level is because like it's the same approach where like someone, when's, like we talked about it the other day, the first time that you use testosterone, you cause epigenetic and genomic changes at, on

Starting point is 00:01:58 like the cellular and the biological level that theoretically change what is going on in terms of your musculature for the rest of your life. It's the same instance when someone goes through male puberty. They can potentially experience the same things. It's like there's conflicting science viewpoints where it's like they may or may not, depending on whether or not they're actually weight training or eating a protein-rich diet and actually causing those epigenetic changes to occur yeah but i think that's why it's not really an issue for male power lifters but female power lifters are the ones that would potentially see if there were any negative outcomes from this

Starting point is 00:02:38 happening they were the ones they would be the ones to experience it policy also makes it clear that quote individuals are not required to disclose their trans identity or history to the cpu or to any of the cpu's representatives see and that's and that's unique to the cpu i think isn't it do we have any idea i could be wrong but i think the cpu that's kind of the key here there's no history required or no like not therapeutic use exemption but no like medical history showing that they've – the individual who is a transgender female, they've undergone like – I honestly don't know the terms and I don't want to like say stuff that's like insensitive or whatever. But they haven't gone through the transitionary process or received like hormonal treatment to essentially tank their natural testosterone production, which will essentially tank their biological strength levels.

Starting point is 00:03:53 is that they don't require any of that to be brought to them and why Avi was able to just be like, I'm a woman as a big bearded guy who's obviously he's like self-admitted, not a transgender female. But he said, I'm just going to enter as a female as a form of protest to show them how this was wrong or whatever. It's interesting. And, you know, I just maybe I'm old or something, but it's interesting that you can just pick. You're allowed to pick what you want uh uh whether you're male or female i mean it'll determine how much financial aid you get and like all these different things it's just interesting that you get to just choose that yeah with this one yeah i think that's the big deal though there's there's nothing else but just saying hey you can literally go up and say i'm i'm a one even though you've you don't have to give any history yeah where to my knowledge i think the actual like WADA or IOC requirements are not that you have to declare it, but it also has to come with a history of like actual medical transitional. Again, I don't know the words, but like treatment showing that you are actually going through or have gone through the transitionary process. So I get this and we'll get into it because i'm sure there's more detail here but like i understand what avi did but i still think he's a fucking asshole for doing this because it's

Starting point is 00:05:15 like i get the issue here but you can do it in a much much better way but i'm sure they're going to go into it and i think these uh federations and whether it's the olympics or whatever uh all these uh uh all these companies or or whatever you want to call them committees they're just trying to do their best right yeah with a situation where they're trying to be sensitive to and i don't think anyone has like a clear-cut answer on exactly you know how to approach no and that that's my exact point with this because like yes it's very obvious that the cpu if this is unique to them which i think it is if this is unique to them they obviously should they're probably should reevaluate their policy and approach it in a different way to protect their female athletes from stuff like this from happening but the key here is avi and obviously i'm particular i'm

Starting point is 00:06:07 biased because i i'm very very close with some trans people and some non-binary people so i i i'm kind of going to err on the side of like empathy and just like being a good person as a whole he did it he didn't do it to take female records he did it to take records from a transgender female wait so the record was held by a transgender female i i believe so i'm pretty sure pretty confident in that yeah i don't know the person's name but that so that's the issue here that's why i if avi watches this or someone sends it to him, I apologize for calling him a fucking asshole. But it's a little bit of an insensitive approach when you legitimately go out of your way not to make a statement to protect females but legitimately to go after one transgender female because this policy I believe was put into place for, for the thought of inclusivity and like, let's just be good and let's be good to people and encourage participation and be,

Starting point is 00:07:09 be accepting of other individual situations. This guy literally went out of his way to be like, no, fuck you in particular because I want to protect my female athletes. But I think you could protect your female athletes in a much more less of an abrasive approach, in my opinion. Power Project family, your normal shoes are making you weak. This is why I partner with Vivo Barefoot Shoes because they have a wide toe box, they're flat, and they're flexible. So with every single step you're taking, if you're taking a 10-minute walk outside or when you're working out in in the gym your feet are able to do what they're supposed to do in this shoe they have tons of options for

Starting point is 00:07:49 hiking running training in the gym chilling and relaxing casual shoes if you're out on a date you need to check them out and andrew how can they get it yes that's over at vivo barefoot.com slash power project and you guys will receive 15 off your order automatically again vivo barefoot vivobarefoot.com slash powerproject. Links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. The Canadian Powerlifting Union is just going to take your word for it. If you want to compete with the women and you're a biological male, you just tell them, I identify as a woman, and they'll let you compete. So this policy allowed trans women to compete with women in powerlifting. Now, this is Annie Andres. She was the record holder in women's powerlifting in Canada. The record for a bench press that she held was 275 pounds. Now,

Starting point is 00:08:33 Annie Andres won eight out of nine competitions she entered in the women's category over the past four years. So now enter Avi Silverberg. He goes to the women's competition and he says, well, hey, even though I look like this, I identify as a woman. And he is allowed to goes to the women's competition and he says, well, hey, even though I look like this, I identify as a woman. And he is allowed to compete in the women's competition. He then goes on to shatter Annie Andrews' record of 275 pounds on the bench press by bench pressing nearly 370 pounds, making him the current women's record holder by nearly 100 pounds. Now, here's the video of him going and breaking the women's bench pressing record in Canada with a lift of 370 pounds. Check it out.

Starting point is 00:09:17 It's interesting if this guy, I don't know who the fuck this guy is who made this video. Yeah. But he's not, I don't know if he's saving it because obviously there's six minutes left in the video but i don't know if he actually is going is he does have you seen this is he going to mention that we haven't seen this okay yeah if because anne andries is a transgender female so that's that's the whole issue that i take with this whole thing he went out of his way to essentially bully an individual who was just seeking participation in my opinion and used it as to make a statement to protect female athletes but it doesn't really seem like that's the entire goal here when you take a step back and realize what actually happened

Starting point is 00:09:57 now let me ask you this i'm curious about your thoughts on this because technically yeah he what he's doing here is trying to prove a point and it is bullying that trans athlete but this is where there ends up people end up having uh difficulty with with people or uh men that transition to women and they're now trans women in these sports because someone like Annie Anders, Annie Anders, right?

Starting point is 00:10:29 I don't know. Honestly. Okay. She transitioned and then she took a female bench record. Now we know that the bench press is something that for a majority of biological woman is that lift that there's going to be the biggest discrepancy between men and women like the squat the deadlift there are some there are some very strong uh squats and deadlifts

Starting point is 00:10:51 on the woman's side but the bench is going to be the place that there's a much bigger gap between biological men and biological women and then a trans athlete comes and breaks the female bench record that is tough to try to rationalize and be like there it makes you wonder should there maybe be an asterisk next to that record because again i have no problem with people identifying with what they are and because they are you are a woman okay you're a woman you're a man okay you're a man but i wonder do the biological women that are competing in powerlifting and the woman that had her record broken by this trans athlete, is she fine with it? You know?

Starting point is 00:11:30 That's, and I don't know if any of us have the capacity to like truly answer that or figure out what's, like what's what there, but that is a problem. I think the only answer is to just go with your genetics, unfortunately. Just what were you born as? I don't know if there's room for anything else unless you want to make another category maybe. That's the only thing I can think of.

Starting point is 00:11:52 See, and this is such a hard topic to have and why it's like obviously I'm going to lean towards more of an inclusivity approach because of my own personal biases and it's like that's okay and it's just something to think about because like as like this this is not equating race to like transgender issues but in sema as as a black man yeah like you know in the united states past there was segregation that and it was literally ruled that separate is not equal. In the context of race, a lot of people make the argument that if there were to be a male-female category and then a trans or an MX category, the USAPL has an MX category I think, is that okay or is that just – is that like segregation with extra steps or something

Starting point is 00:12:46 and it's like i don't have that answer i i don't know and i think at least for me what i would look at is like what like this weight it's the 125 kg weight class i think so like 275 pound weight limit what if we were to look at like who is the greatest natural female bench presser in that particular weight class? What is the – like biological female, like what is the capacity to bench that weight? And I would probably argue that it's not 167.5 kg that avi hit i would think it was more close to an an or annie's uh bench bench press which is 275 pounds because yes the exception isn't the rule but like look at jen thompson she's she weighs 132 pounds and she's a biological female she's a 40 some 40 i think something year old female who bench presses well into the 300s and while yes it's not exactly feasible to be like okay

Starting point is 00:13:52 well what about jen it's just as infeasible to apply a situation in my opinion where ann is one individual in a federation with 10,000 participants, and this is like 1% of a 1% instance where it's like, are we really going to, I don't want to say like bully or destroy her hopes or dreams or her ideals just to make a statement when it would be a little bit easier and a little bit more inclusive and a little bit more human to just be like, hey, in this particular instance, yeah, it's okay. Come with your, like, follow the IOC and WADA guidelines, and you're cool. Because that's one person in one weight class and one subcategory in one federation. And it's, from my perspective, it's a little bit easier and a little bit more human

Starting point is 00:14:47 to be like, that's okay. Because it's not really affecting that many people. And I would think the best way to figure out whether or not it's okay or not is talk to the other 125, I don't know if this is her weight class, but talk to the other women in her weight class. Be like, what do you guys think? Because I was following this a little bit when it was being posted about.

Starting point is 00:15:11 And Anne or Annie, again, I don't know, but she posted photos with other women in her weight class, other women in her weight class, not Avi, who were very, very happy that she was there and very happy that she was competing and it really seems like the people that are most vocally upset and against type this type of stuff are guys and it's just an interesting observation that i've made over the course of this and just i i haven't taken like huge conversation points or talking points about this just because it's so everybody gets really upset oh yeah the class section is going to be interesting yeah but but it's just i don't know it's like are we really going to like go out of our way just to like fuck this one particular person when it's like one percent of one percent of a population when it would be a lot easier and a lot human to just be a lot more human to just be like hey like just maybe expand upon our guidelines a little bit

Starting point is 00:16:09 yeah and then we'll be okay but i don't know i really don't know meaning so you can keep playing it but like 167.5 kg that's like what like 360 something pounds i think i said 370 370 and it's like i don't think uh i think that's a little outside the realm of a natural female to hit oh that's very outside yeah and it's like well why why is why is it okay that av Avi did this and kind of nuked a record for the rest of history? It's all really interesting. It's all really interesting. I mean, what if a transgender person came in like this other girl that was in the competition that previously had the record?

Starting point is 00:17:00 And what if they just lifted the same weight? had the record and what if they just lifted the same way right yeah you know so it's it's it's interesting that like uh there's never really actions that uh that take place until you know like like uh big companies when big companies start to make crazy amounts of money that's when action is taken against them um when uh things like this happens like no one cares when it's like kind of minor and like not that big of a deal and like oh it's only 20 30 pounds over the best of somebody else but now it's 100 pounds over and then you know what's what's going to kind of continue to happen here you know i don't know i don't know if sports are meant to be fair honestly yeah and i don't know if everything can be inclusive um i just i don't i don't know and i don't think anyone has the answer and so, yeah, you try to come up with the best idea that you can that's going to be the most fair, I guess.

Starting point is 00:17:49 But this seems like it's not a great idea. But bad ideas are great because they get you to move forward towards better ideas. So maybe this will spawn someone to say, oh, you know what? If we implement this other rule and we do this, I think we're good. Yeah, absolutely. And that's kind of what I'm saying because there are like IOC and WADA guidelines for trans athletes. And it's like why is powerlifting so unique that we can't seem to wrap our heads around that like maybe that's just what we should do and actually treat it like a sport Like every other thing is treated like a sport, but I don't know. And that's, that's a question for the CPU because I don't even,

Starting point is 00:18:29 are they like a, are they like an IPF affiliate? I think they're an IPF affiliate. I don't know. I have no idea, but it's just kind of like they probably, it seems like they just really, really leaned into the we're going to be inclusive thing because you don't have to, you don't have to report anything. I could walk in and just be a female and it's like imagine if i did that and squatted 850 pounds like like what like come on you know yeah i'm sure they had a meeting too and they're probably like look no one's gonna do that right yeah but and then avi decided like he wanted

Starting point is 00:19:01 to make a statement and as as as insensitive as it may have been it's a valid one because it's gonna force them to expand upon the ruling it's just personally i'm like he probably could have done that a little bit better yeah but that's just me so yeah he pumped that like it was not even a problem so after he casually bench pressed at 3, breaking the record by nearly 100 pounds, then people got really, really, really upset at Avi. They said that he was making a mockery of the sport. And to even throw more salt in the wound, the former record holder was right there and had a front row seat to watch him do it, to watch her record go down in flames. Now, Andreas felt that this was so wrong that they allowed a man to break her record.

Starting point is 00:19:50 She actually posted a lengthy video about it, calling him a coward and a bigot because he did this with malicious intent as a biological man competing in the woman's category. You heard exactly right. Matter of fact, listen to it yourself. Hey folks, just a super quick update. Yes, somebody did show up at the meet today with malicious intent. And you know what? It was nothing. It was just entirely ignored.

Starting point is 00:20:23 People lifted. I volunteered. Everyone was happy that I was there. And it really struck me that maybe my participation isn't necessarily fair. I mean, you know, there's science, whatever. But people welcome me because I'm actually nice to people. I show up and I try to make everyone happy. Saying about being nice has nothing to do with being nice to people. So I just think that things like this, they get you in a really weird spot.

Starting point is 00:20:57 What if the other guy came in and he was nice? Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I just think it puts us in a wacky place. But again, I hope that they I hope that any of these organizations can figure out ways to have rules where people are comfortable. You're probably never going to have everyone be happy, probably never going to have everybody comfortable.

Starting point is 00:21:19 But it'd be great to try to figure something out. But it's kind of interesting that she's mad about it when she competes in this federation and she competes under the same rules. Yeah. Like she didn't, you know, this other, this man that competed and broke the record by identifying as a woman. Avi. He didn't, Avi, he didn't write the rules. Right. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:21:41 And I think this is like, I don't, I don't know, like, cause it it's I didn't see this video, but it's like it's interesting to see. Well, it's just like any time you get emotion tied into any of this because it's like we can talk about this and be removed. And it's like, well, you know, my bias is this blah, blah, blah. You think this blah, blah. And that's OK, because none of us are wrong. None of us are right here, really. But then you get a video where Anne is posting and she's obviously emotional and it's like fuck you know it's i don't want to say that it's intentionally put out to feel bad but it's like it's the same way that avi is probably making a statement and trying to like rile people up and be like hey come on like get like get a reaction come on she even whether it's intentional or not she's probably doing the same because she's looking for support and she probably just feels shitty for a lot of complicated reasons and she's just posting on her instagram being like i want to have people support me so you know what though like the one thing that i i do wonder though is and nothing against ann but the tough thing is

Starting point is 00:22:42 that the woman whose record she broke because of how spicy this whole fucking type of topic is, women who are potentially getting beat in these situations or biological women are getting beat in these situations. If they came and they were unhappy about it, there would be people that would be throwing stones at them, calling them bigots and calling them non-inclusive because of their viewpoint and that. And then there would be people that are on their side that are like, oh yeah, this is totally right. But it's hard for women on that side because they're in it to come forward. Because either way, whatever side you take, you're either a bigot or you're speaking truth to some people, right? Us, we're dudes on this end. Again, you're not worried about your record ever being broken by

Starting point is 00:23:29 a trans man, right? It's an easier place on our side, to be perfectly honest. It is. I think that matters a hell of a lot more than people give it credit for.

Starting point is 00:23:45 People want me there because I'm actually nice to people. Just a little thought. I'm all good, and the CPU will continue. And be nice to each other. Lift heavy circles. APU, with the situation with that one lifter claiming to be trans just to get those medals and setting records and all that stuff. Here's the problem. You shouldn't really be asking me because I ultimately, I mean, weird thing to say, I come from a place of privilege, which, like I said, is weird to say.

Starting point is 00:24:29 You've got to keep in mind, I transitioned almost 20 years ago. I got all of my papers done. I have my passport. I got surgery. I can prove without any doubt whatsoever that I have gone through every step. Now, Andres goes on to say that I actually care about women in sport because I am a woman in sport. Now, it's time for us to keep it 100. There's a reason why we have men's sports and women's sports. We understand that there are biological differences between the genders that would make it unfair for us to just have one sport for one gender, right?

Starting point is 00:25:12 We don't have women's soccer and men's soccer, and they compete in the same league for the one World Cup, right? There's a women's World Cup and a men's World Cup. Now, I do understand. You have people who transition from male to female or from female to male, and they still want to compete in sports. I understand that, and I do feel sorry for those who want to. But how do you fix the problem of the reality of biological differences? And it's not because of any bias. It's because of biology. Testosterone makes the difference. Now, I do understand that this woman wants to compete with other women. But is that really fair to all those other women who are competing? Yeah, I think to Nsema's point, you know, like whose record is her name? Ann, is that what you said?

Starting point is 00:26:01 I believe so. Whose record did Ann break, you know? and how does that woman feel about it? I don't know. Maybe she's, like, in favor of it. I don't know. But, again, I think, you know, these are just, like, ugly situations because now she's talking about, like, how long ago it was. And then, like, I don't know. Did we put that into the rules? And that's to the point of fairness that you were talking about because all this video is showing me, and I think you guys would probably share the viewpoint, is like this is – it's not an issue for Avi.

Starting point is 00:26:37 It's not an issue for Ann to figure out. This puts the onus on the CPU because this just shows, hey, your protocol that you guys approached with fucking sucks because it's like I shouldn't be able to – I don't need to show a passport. I don't need to show any proof, anything to say that I am a female and I could walk in here and like compete as a female. That's crazy to me. And obviously did her due diligence, I guess, in the sense of like she transitioned and is actually a transgender female and gone through the entire process and has the records to show that. But that's not – like she wasn't obligated to do that. She could have done the same thing that Avi did if she chose to. But obviously she didn't because that's not who she is but it's not it's not Avi's fault it's not her fault it's like the CPU they need to understand

Starting point is 00:27:31 that like if they want to avoid ugly situations like this they probably need to add some parameters to those rules the weird thing is though what are the parameters right because like to be for example to be a trans man and herself said that she she got surgery she did etc x y and z but you don't have to get surgery to be a trans man and this this is like transgender individuals mention this you don't have to get surgery you don't even have to get hrt to say and believe that you're you're trans you don't have to you know what i mean so that's the thing it's like you can be trans without getting hrt to say and believe that you're you're trans you don't have to you know what i mean so that's the thing it's like you can be trans without getting hrt you can be trans without getting

Starting point is 00:28:09 any type of reconstructive surgery so then what type of the parameters does an organization get to say well no you're not trans because you didn't do this but then that individual's like but i am and and this and it's even doubly more of an issue because I think the CPU is an IPF affiliate, which means they are drug tested. They follow WADA guidelines and all of that stuff. So then it's like what the hell kind of situation are we in where we make rules or they're making rules where it's like you have to take exogenous hormones in a federation where our whole approach is you can't take exogenous hormones. That's why this whole thing is like what the fuck gets done here? What's the solution? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:28:57 That's not a bottle of estrogen. That's trend. Yeah, yeah. You lying motherfucker. Why is that estrogen making you cough dude go to an IPF CPU meet and it's like why do I I taste metal in the bathroom

Starting point is 00:29:12 what's going on with the air here oh man well I think we got through the meat of that video for the most part so comment below guys what you think and please if we can let's try to keep things somewhat civil because these types of topics tend to bring out a lot of just meanness and ugliness out of people. So if we can, be cool to Ann, be cool about the situation, and just let us know what you think. Take us on out of here, buddy.

Starting point is 00:29:41 All righty. Thank you, everybody, for checking this out. Please drop those comments down below, like Nsema said, and make sure you guys stay tuned to this YouTube channel for full-length conversations just like this. And, Nsema, where are you at? Check out our podcast that we have with Joe, Joe and Jake, and Andy, and all of them. At Nsema, ending on Instagram and YouTube. At Nsema, yin-yang on TikTok and Twitter. Discord is down below. Joe, where can people find you?

Starting point is 00:29:58 Joe Sullivan, AOD on Instagram and theaodcollective.com. on Instagram and the AOD collective.com. If you want to get ahold of me, send me an email through my website because I will guarantee I'll get back to your Instagram DM, but it might take like six months. So just hit me up on my website. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.

Mark Bell's Power Project - Man Identifies As Woman To Destroy Woman's Bench Record. Our Thoughts

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