Mark Bell's Power Project - MBPP EP. 603 - Coach Trevor of Enhanced Athlete

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Coach Trevor of Enhanced Athlete joins us today to talk about the fitness underground world that not many are willing to speak about. He shares controversial information and we just want to remind you this is all for entertainment purposes only. No one on this podcast is a doctor and nothing is being prescribed here. Seek medical advice from a licensed physician, don’t take advice from a podcast. Grab the new Power Project "think LESS" shirt, supplies are limited: https://markbellslingshot.com/products/think-less-tee?variant=39468915261534 Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Magic Spoon Cereal: https://www.magicspoon.com/powerproject to automatically save $5 off a variety pack! ➢8 Sleep: Visit https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro! ➢Marek Health: https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT15 for 15% off ALL LABS! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Subscribe to the Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Power Project Familia, how's it going? This episode is brought to you by our sponsor, Merrick Health. Now, Merrick Health is owned by somebody you know, Derek, from More Plates, More Dates, but Merrick Health is the premium telehealth TRT and HRT clinic where we have something called the Power Project Panel that has 26 different labs that give you all the things you need for men and women. But also, if you guys are interested in TRT or HRT, you can actually work with a doctor from Merrick Health and they'll go ahead and they'll tell you which tests you need to get along with giving you the treatment that you need. You need to check them out. Andrew, can you tell the people how to get?

Yeah, absolutely. So we have links down in the YouTube description as well as the podcast show notes, but you need to head over to MerrickHealth.com. That's M-A-R-R-E-K-Health.com. And yeah, if you are interested in TRT, you can actually contact them. You'll hop on the phone with them. And when it comes time to actually start paying for some of these panels, just let them know that you've heard it through us and you want to use promo code PowerProject15, and that's going to save you 15% off all the recommended labs that they give you. Again, links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes.

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Enjoy. All right, Coach Trevor, what are you exactly a coach of? Coach, it's kind of stuck. Enjoy. All right, Coach Trevor, what are you exactly a coach of? Coach, it's kind of stuck. The funny story about that was when we were doing the very first video on, I don't even know if I can say the word on here, but DNP, that was our very first video, and he was like, well, we need to call you something.

And I was like, just call me Trevor. And he was like, how about Coach Trevor? Because at the time, I had brought a client to that show he was doing. And this is actually how we met. I went to school with him. And we only had maybe seven weeks to do the show. And I brought him in. He ended up gaining like four pounds. He was about four pounds into the show.

But I brought him to his house to do tanning with Marco. So I'd never met him before and he was asking us all kinds of questions like how'd you get him shredded he ended up winning and um he so he kept picking my brain over and over and he's like how many athletes do you train and I don't really train people but I'd get a you know a couple of the professionals I would never say their name at the time and I told him you, that's what I did at the time as a chemist, you know, and how those kinds of things intertwine. And so he's like, let's just call you coach Trevor. I was like, okay, cool. You know, like I'd rather have that than chemist Trevor, you know, cause that stigma behind that is, you know, it can go both ways,

but yeah, that's how it started. How do you start to learn some of this pharmacology and chemistry? You know, my family, like my mom said, they were nurses. So I grew up, I mean, I grew up with a basic understanding of it. But it wasn't until I started doing bodybuilding. And when I started doing bodybuilding, I couldn't grow. And I just, you know, everyone at the school was growing school was growing I'm like how are you guys growing man like I'm training three four hours I was doing the Arnold style and I was just 115 pounds couldn't grow and it was in biology it was the beginning of my sophomore year and I remember in biology I just equated I mean it's down to ATP it was one of the

basics the most basic fundamentals in biology and I just I tried to I saw that and I saw how that you could apply that into bodybuilding so I just started asking questions and I just started asking asking asking and then everything became bodybuilding and then chemistry, biology. They just went hand in hand. So all I did was ask questions. And it was learning, going to school. Everything was centered around how to get big. And so my questions in school were all tailored to that. It worked out.

Putting your hand up in the back of the class. How do you make your legs bigger? Yeah, without saying it, right? That's exactly it. That's exactly it so respiration when did you start making all these different compounds like for muscle building when did you start doing that and getting into that for muscle um let's see and we can use the word we have the disclaimer here so it probably the same. I mean, maybe is it everything you can say anything here? Okay.

Um, as 18, 17, 18. I mean, I made everything from anabolic side to, you know, regular,

I guess, recreational stuff in high school. My teacher who was at the college, cause I went to the college next door. Um, he's actually the one that showed me how to do it. And then, yeah, he was a teacher. So he showed me how to do it, and that's how the chemistry part,

I got more involved in the chemistry aspect because I was already done with the biology side, the part that I needed, you know, and anatomy and how the human body worked that way. It was the chemical side is what I was missing. And so he showed me how to do a few things. In school, they teach you it. I'm a visual learner, so when they say all these words, I didn't understand anything. But as soon as I would see a reaction, I see a reaction,

oh, that's what that word was. That's like cooking a steak. It's the same. It was no different from what you do every day, cooking dinner or making dessert. It was literally the same principle. So after seeing that, it became so easy. And after he showed me it, it was just everything.

Everything became – I mean he couldn't tell me what not to make. It was that simple. Just kind of measurements and ingredients to make like what performance enhancing drugs to make steroids basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yes and no. So with that, it's like there's a set way that, I mean, I think anyone, you can go Google it. And so there's always been this like set way, but it makes no sense.

Like there is a company that did that for testosterone, you know, 20, 30 years ago, but we still use those same principles, which is weird. You know, to me, that's weird. And so my way was, you know, and how he taught me too is there's a million other ways to do it. They just stopped. They just stopped making, you know, the way they have it now is the same way we've been doing it for 30, 40 years.

There's so many more effective ways, but just like cooking a steak, there's better ways now than there was 40, 50 ago you know or even cooking a burger like at a restaurant they won't give it to you a certain way because they don't think it's safe yeah so maybe some of these drugs maybe they don't make them uh these other particular ways because they just you know think that maybe it would it uh might not be as. Yeah, and then they don't know why. Like if you look at the ingredient list, there's a reason why they use specific things. You know, why would you put a rubber stopper with an ingredient that eats rubber? You know, that's essentially what it does. And you talk about cancer from steroids when they start talking about this.

It's not the steroid. It's how you were making it. And so these things are literally eating the rubber stopper and then you just inject that into your body or in the syringe even worse this is interesting so let me ask this because um people do say like yeah steroids cause cancer they cause sickness whatever um now what aspects of the way that these things were being made is the dangerous thing is it like the rubber thing you mentioned right that means the rubber is getting to that compound which an individual is then injecting into their body like god it's everything i mean you heat for example they'll put this in their oven and your oven conventional oven is 150 degrees it can you know vary so just that alone you can oxidize you can melt the rubber

stopper um the oxidization of the hormone itself, like burning it, I mean, right there. That's like burning your steak. Again, referring to that. It's like charring your steak and just eating the charred part. The solvents, different solvents that you use, whether grass solvents and, you know, and things that you should filter out. And with nowadays, like we have, I mean, again again we're so far advanced now like people are still using these methods you can take these things nano the the hormone extract the hormone and then put it in a solventless carrier you don't need any solvents anymore and they're still doing

it this method and it just it's mind-blowing that you know people still do it because you can you can mess a hormone up any which way oh you mentioned uh dnp and yeah i do know it's a uh it's can be a very uh dangerous joke what what is dnp how does it work and and how did you stumble upon it especially it sounds like you stumbled upon it at a pretty a pretty young age yeah Yeah, that one. So how there's a guy, I guess I could say his name because he, I mean, he's not involved in anything, but Nick Perry, he's a good friend of mine. He used to, he was a gold medalist in the Olympics actually. And he worked with a guy named Dan Duchesne way back in the day. And he, he gave me his notes and um dan duchesne

created ultimate orange that we always talk about on this show it's like three episodes in a row really yeah that's uh he's he's my favorite um but it was him he's he gave me a lot of some of the original notes from him and uh that's how i actually stumbled into the dmp i was 16 17 years old or so and um and how it works i mean just to make things easy how this is how i explain it to people because i try to make it you know bring an analogy so it's really easy to understand instead of throwing out a bunch of you know big words and stuff essentially it stops your body from utilizing glucose right for energy and it's from absorbing from using any any which way so what happens is

your or disrupts atp process rather so what happens is that atp instead of being used as it would normally in your body a normal functioning um uh ingredient or I'm sorry, macronutrient. Like coal in the engine, like on a train, right? It's basically when the glucose enters the body, it just takes it, throws it right into the engine, and then that gets burned as heat, and that is your energy source. So it's just the more glucose you take, that's why you sweat every time you eat carbohydrates. It's just taking it, just like an engine with coal, that's why you sweat every time you eat carbohydrates.

It's just taking it just like an engine with coal, and you're just throwing it right into there, and the more you take, and the higher dose you take, it just keeps shoveling it in there, and that heat is a proponent of energy, and so essentially that's how it works. So your body, you won't even store that as glycogen, depending on how much you're taking, but that starves all the cells you know in your body of it too including cancer and that's where the problem lies with dmp and big pharma and government because you know we 19 was it 1928 we had the cure for cancer the nobel peace prize for dr warner von berg and he found the metabolism of a cancer cell can only live off glucose. So if you starve that of glucose, our bodies are fine.

We'll live off ketones. We're fine with that. Cancer cell can't. And DNP puts you in an environment where it cannot happen. So the cancer cells just die. So wait, like if a cancer patient takes DNP, like what does that look like? So what I'll say is from my clients, and I can tell you there's getting close to a hundred of people who I've helped, um, who have maybe taken DNP for their, for, you know, cancer,

every single one of them, um, it's going to be a big statement. Every single one of them who has done it and done it earnestly and done the doses that they were told to uh worked every time and got rid of it it's crazy because you hear how dangerous dnp is and it can uh it can really make your body temperature go up a lot right can really almost like make you almost like make you feel sick isn't that kind of how you end up burning so much fat? It's just like chemo, though. Chemo makes you get very sick on chemo.

We're still, when every doctor who prescribes chemo would deny it themselves as treatment, you know, that says one thing. But yeah, the DMP, if you take enough of it, yeah, you should. You should feel kind of sick. And then that's the problem because you're oxidizing fat, too. You're burning so much fat. Your body has to get rid of all the toxins when it happens. And, um, which is why you would take, you know, like green tea and, you know, things

like this that, you know, can help speed that process up and get rid of all those toxins that are broken down, um, as you break down fat, because your body is not supposed to break down fat that fast and metabolize it that quickly. A lot of times it'll break down protein first. And with DNP, one of the ways it works is it'll spare your protein, and it will just burn that body fat. And it burns it so much that, yeah, you'll get sick, and you can actually get really sick from that.

So do you have to literally eat more fat as these individuals are doing that? Do they need to be eating fat as that's happening? Not as much as I would say on a normal diet. I'd say more carbohydrates. Okay. Definitely more carbohydrates. It's my understanding that not all cancers operate that way. Is that correct?

Yeah. Especially more like genetic cancers and things that, and that's how cancer i mean in its existence that's exactly like cancer and that small percentage you're talking about those are the cancers that are supposed to exist here most of the cancers we have now are all man-made and not meaning made in a lab but they're you know they're they're products of our environment products of technology and products of things that we've invented. And even with nutrition and food, you have vegetables that cause cancer now. So you're being told to eat healthy, live this lifestyle, be a vegetarian, and you can't even do that.

You know, everything literally causes cancer, but it's man-made. So those percentages that you're talking about in cancers, that's the form. When I say most of those cancers that it can take out, that's the fraction that you can't. Those are usually genetic. And that's where our technology, where we're at with cancer research, is starting to meet head on. Because we're too far ahead when it comes to what we're doing in medicine with cancer. And they've even realized that. Like, we went way too far ahead, and there's things that we don't understand, but we're taking it in a genetic approach now, which is causing a

lot more issues and problems with people with just normal cancers. When we could have just reverted back to it's the basic metabolism of it and took it out this way. So yeah, those, there is a percentage that do not operate in that same way. When you say normal cancers, what do you mean exactly? When I say normal cancers, that's probably a bad word. So there's a percentage of cancers where I say normal or because there's two, you know, being normal meaning what's going around right now, right? And then there's normal where cancer in its normal environment. And by that is what we call more so the cancers that are, you know, at birth or genetic caused or things that have been around for a very long time

that before we introduced technology and before we introduced all these different things that cause cell mutation. And so things that were, you know, the cancer that's been around forever essentially and um so those are more genetic what we call now genetic and and that's where those two fields are i guess those two cancers collide because a lot of this is all you know sadly it's all man-made most of it's man-made now in what we're trying to deal with. Do things need to be unsafe and slash dangerous in order to be effective? Could you make something that doesn't have the damaging effects of DNP that could be effective to help people manage their weight?

Yeah, and they're already doing that. There's actually one that is out there. It's basically because DNP is what they call like the parent drug. And this is the, I would say, almost like growth hormone you would say is the mother one. And if you could take certain aspects of that DMP, the positive parts for this reason, or say we're going to get into the cancer side, the positive effects for cancer and eliminate all the negative effects, the positive effects for cancer and eliminate all the negative effects. You can do that. And they have, I can't think of the name. Tony actually

was trying to tell me this. And I was like, that sounds a lot like this DMP precursor or not precursor analyte that they were working on. And so I got to get that name because it is actually really interesting. And you can, when it comes to the chemistry side. You can, I mean, look at bodybuilding drugs and look at peptides. You can literally take individual effects of a certain drug and just keep those. But does it do the same thing? Sometimes you need some of those or those side effects are needed because those side effects are the product of whatever its intended effect was. Did they make rat poison out of DNP or is like a certain ingredient in it?

Like a pool chemical or something? Oh, something like that. A dye. Yeah. A weed killer. Okay. The only reason why I'm bringing that up is just cause I mean, I'm not a doctor. We're not prescribing this to anybody just you know kind of putting that little disclaimer out there that this is for entertainment purposes only right now yeah and everything we're going to talk about today all this stuff is dangerous and we'll get to that as well because we it's important to uh share some of the downsides of it but unfortunately

a lot of times when people are listening to these things all they hear is that shit burns fat sounds dope sign me up all right i'm definitely guilty yeah you're like causes death you're like but it burns fast it's funny because there's that way right and then how i always the other analogy the other analogy i'll give too when when i hear that from people it's like you look at the uh the induction of chemo and radiation into medicine and then you look at who which pharma there's a certain pharmaceutical company who created this and at the invisible death and one of the reasons was to basically eradicate entire you know population of people you know on the planet and now we're taking that that we use in a war and we're using that to cure or get rid of or treat cancer patients and so when i hear that

like the the rat poison and things i'll read those things and i'm like well shit i mean that doesn't sound half bad compared to something you'd use in a war to eradicate an entire population of people what do you mean by that though what do you mean by that what well the the eradication of entire population people what are we talking about oh chemo chemo radiation when they were doing chemo um there's a certain i won't say their names i don't want to get any people in trouble but there's a pharmaceutical company the when it was created and manifested it was for that reason during a war and uh, so it was used to just kill people. And now they use that same drug that they were using before just to kill people

and now using it for cancer to save people. Which war? I'm curious. If you want in the comments, what are we talking about? Like which war though? Well, it started in World War I. World War I, okay.

Damn. All right. You can look that up. I don't want to get into the name. I got you. That's great though let's get to everybody's favorite topic i think these guys know what i'm going to start with the team well maybe maybe they don't know what i have an idea it starts with everyone's got questions

about trend oh all the time and like what like why i mean i think there's like i think there's like a subset of people that don't even understand that Tren is like part of like steroids. Like they just mention it. They say, oh, that guy is on Tren, but they don't really have any idea. I also think there's a subset of people that think they can like go to their doctor and get Tren prescribed to them. And unless you know Dr. Tony Huge, that most likely is not the scenario, right? So what is the allure with Tren? Why is it so popular?

Is it a great drug? I don't know. Or is it too dangerous? What do you think? It goes both ways. I think the allure behind it is just the side effects. I think people judge steroids with side effects nowadays. So the more side effects you get from it, the better the is you know and it's a very backwards way of thinking but truly especially traveling the

world and all these different countries that i've been to i'll tell you right now the people with the worst physiques are the people who are just after the most side effects like oh this works so good look i'm bloated i can't eat i'm sick and i want to pause you just for one second because this sounds completely irrational but we do the same thing with right with with uh recreational drugs like oh that that uh fucking pot messed me up but let me try this dmt or let me try right so you this this is not like just uh just for steroid abusers but also in the gym like do that workout fucked me up. Like, let's do that again.

You know, right? Like, you kind of do chase that weird. Quads hanging off your leg. Yeah, that made me sore. You're like, let's do it next time until we puke. Hangovers and alcohol. Like, it's. Wow.

But, yeah, it does have its place. It really does. But by itself, is it a great? No. It does have its place. It really does. But by itself, is it a great? No, it's good in synergy with a couple other compounds and it can have a great effect that way. But other than that, I look at it as a no, no, not at all. It really is not, especially with the side effects. There's a reason why they brought trend into the market um as i believe by negma and they brought it in for a human um yeah like why are these things around like what's the deal with

that and then the thing is they had to make it under parabon the name parabon and put an ester to this that makes it it makes it so slow for your body to break down longer than echobois right and because of the side effects and because the toxicity of it if they gave it to you in a form of an acetate or base version there's so much that you get at once that it caused so way too many side effects and people would get you know there's there's no way they could justify it so they did this and it still ended up getting taken off the market so i mean it's that that'll tell you something can't get parable on it anymore he's like i didn't say that not the not under that name um but yes you

can uh i haven't even heard of that one what yeah it's it's just trend oh okay my bad it's just trend but it's just a longer acting esterer, right? Yeah, the hex ester. Negma was the pharmaceutical company who produced it. And again, it was taken off the market pretty quick. I mean, now there's even studies showing— Why was it even put on the market, though? You know, some bodybuilders were pushing it. Or Olympics, I would say. More so with the Olympic teams and stuff, probably.

But it doesn't have, like, a medical— No. I mean, a regular doctor can't prescribe it to you but imagine though so why is it made though i don't understand if you go back in time like 40 years or so when these things are you know when when they were trying to push for it there's no research they didn't know what the hell it was they just look at a piece of paper and it says well look at you know the androgenic and anabolic rate and look at what this can do for you know muscle sparing you know and this and anabolic rate and look at what this can do for muscle sparing.

This person had muscle wasting and look at the positive effects it had and don't show them the negative effects. That's just how they work when it comes to putting drugs in the market. Does a lot of this end up looking like some episodes of Breaking Bad? You know, you got beakers and shit everywhere. Oh wait wait like when you're like when you're making stuff oh yeah um no i'm not talking about crystal meth there's been yeah yeah that's a good diet drug right oh my god well they used it a lot and i know yeah quite a few people who used that for contests and stuff. Really? Oh, quite a few.

Meth? Yeah, cocaine, meth, for sure. Oh, my God, yeah. There's a lot of recreational drugs used in bodybuilding. But especially when it was at its biggest, you can see now, because a lot of the residual effects, suicides, and a lot of messed up people from it nowadays. So it's like we kind of learn from it.

There's still people who do it. And, you know, that's you probably don't hear about it because they don't talk about it. But, yeah, it's big time. Maybe not so much now, but definitely I know quite a few people who did. What's something to be on like the safer side? Like if you just wanted to gain a little muscle mass, you know, maybe you're looking into some TRT, some hormone replacement therapy. There's a lot of people that don't really even know about hormone replacement therapy and how effective it can be getting your blood work done. And then having a doctor kind of prescribe stuff in your opinion, like what would that look like if somebody is just, just trying

to gain a little muscle mass and maybe they're in their 40s and they just want to like feel better and look better always i tell everyone get your lab work done the more extensive you can get the better but that let piece of those few pieces of paper can tell you everything i mean it can tell you everything that's going on in your body minus a stool sample but you put those together and you can see right there what you should stay away from maybe this is causing low testosterone you should be on testosterone in the first place and you can add something else in but that's the first thing i always start with and if you were yeah say in your 40s 9 99 times out of 100 i would say trt for sure get on some testosterone because you're getting more side effects with low testosterone than you are with moderate to high testosterone at that age. And so hands down, testosterone would

be my very first thing for that. I wouldn't say SARMs for that just because, you know, you take SARMs by itself, you're not going to help your testosterone. And testosterone, the function of testosterone has so many things outside of muscle building and benefits to that, that you can't get from any other drug or any, any other hormone. So that's why I'd always start there. Um, when you say like age 30, 40 group or so, definitely the safest thing and probably the healthy, one of the healthiest things you can do. Any supplements do anything, uh, that you've seen? Uh, so somebody not wanting to inject themselves with testosterone have you seen these supplements um yield a good result not only for testosterone but to also uh you know have a

good effect because like just raising your testosterone levels i mean you can do that just from like beating off it was my understanding so that that might not yield like the result you're looking for but so have you seen what's like supplements that do anything in particular? Actually, yeah. And I only know because, yeah, it's enhanced athlete supplements, and I only know that because we're part of getting these things researched. And when you're part of that, then you do know like, okay, we actually do have people taking it.

We have them be monitored and we get to get their lab works done. So I can only speak on that, those products per se, but those testosterone boosters that they do have, there's two of them specifically. And those two, I mean, I still have them in my phone actually. A lot of the lab works on people. And we had a guy, he was in 100 and maybe 15, I think was his testosterone range.

And we got him as high as like 930 something or something like that. Yeah. 115 to 930? And I didn't believe it either. And we watched it because we got him done weekly on these people. So they were getting their labs done every week. And we just watched it go up and up and up and up. And we just kept watching this over four weeks.

Like, when's it going to stop? Like, we were waiting. I was looking for other things. Like, maybe this guy's taking testosterone. But that would show you right away. You would see other things fluctuating no and he kept that elevated until as soon as he stopped and it started going back down and then he kept it from where it was before it was like 115 or so he kept it um after he got off between four and six hundred after that so what are the ingredients that cause that that's within that test booster there's oh? There's a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe some of the main ones that are the main factors. So out of the two, you always have your tribulus in there. That's one of the staples in, I think, every single one of them. It's the forms, though, that they have in there. Because you can have all the test boosters in the world, but if you look at absorption rates on a lot of these things, they're pretty terrible. And a lot of times in the studies, you might find the published studies, it'll look great

on paper, but they weren't even done in humans. You know, we lack an enzyme to break this down or the proper way delivery system to get it to your body to, in order to use this. So a lot of it is the forms in which that they're given are made in. And for example, there's some things that don't even absorb orally, right? And I think we talked about it earlier, but putting it into or breaking it down into a nano-sized molecule and then encapsulating this molecule in something else where it can survive digestion. So once it does that, you get 100% delivery. It will pass through that first,

your stomach acids and get through there and absorb in your intestine lining. And then that encapsulation effect leaves and you get the drug in your system or, you know, plant material, whatever it is. And so mainly it's a lot of that now because we only have so many things, you know, that can be a big, like a big, have a big impact, you know, that can be a big, like a big, have a big impact, you know, in supplements or nutrition. There's always this thing like acai is a new thing or whatever.

And then it keeps jumping every week. You know, we run out of things. Eventually there's not a million things that are going to produce testosterone. It's take whatever we have and make it more effective. And what other things you can add to make those more effective. And's pretty much the all the research and all the work done on those products was what are those products called uh blue ox and black ox i believe and again i'm not i'm not pushing it's just the ones i know so to give people reference yeah yeah but like you know we had um andrew huberman talking about fedosia aggress this fedos Fidozia Agrestis and Tonka Raleigh. So

Fidozia is in Black Ox I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Solid product. Yeah, that's what I was talking about. And yeah, what they do to those, man, I was never big on them, but I do when people go PCT and stuff, that's one of the things

now I tell them all, I just add it, man, because watch their FSH and their LH levels go up too. It's like, it's extreme, man. It really is. You mentioned a post cycle therapy there by saying PCT. Um,

do you think that people should come off? Uh, because I mean, I know many years ago people used to like do like a cycle and do like 12 weeks and then they would come off and, but we don't really hear that anymore. And now with with like instagram people want to be in shape all the time is it your opinion that people should come off and if so how long like what should that look like yeah um but you can't redline your body that's one thing i learned and one thing that the very first thing i learned in biology is something I forgot, you know, the

entire time I was doing it until towards the end. And it's your body is always going to find homeostasis. You're never going to outsmart it. You're never going to. It will always find a way to get back there. And that's where side effects come in. So when you take something for so long, your body is going to say, okay, that's not normal. We got to get it back to a normal level. And so things start to happen. Say testosterone, for example, the longer you're on it, it's going to start breaking it down into estrogen. There's an aromatase enzyme that'll start breaking that down.

It starts going into DHT. You know, you have your 5-alpha reductase enzyme and starts doing this. The longer you're on it, the more it's trying to bring it down. So you might have a total testosterone of 5,000, but your free testosterone is like 20, you know, and that's what starts to happen. So, um, yeah, it's going to catch up. So when you're doing a cycle, there's a, there's a reason you want to do this, right? And then when your things start to slow down, you might switch compounds and try new things, but that's your body telling you something. It's stopping for a reason. Myostatin is another one that we don't talk about too much, but that is the rev limiter of all gains. And once your body realizes this, you'll

see that start to climb. And every anabolic and everything we do causes it to drop. And so you might see DECA marketed as a myostatin inhibitor. It's not. It's just an anabolic. So anything you add that's anabolic will lower it, but your body will catch back up. When it starts to see these things climb, that goes on and then boom, you're done. So you can change things out and try to, you know, trick it. And that's where I came in is tricking your body, you know, and it's not just rotating compounds because it's still an anabolic, right? It might drop it a little bit and it's going to catch right back up and it's going to go higher and higher and higher. Then you're going to gain less and less and less, have to do more and more and more. So eventually you do so much more for so little, it's not really,

it's not going to equate to any benefit. And then you start taking one step forward, two steps backwards. So it's all about tricking it. And that's the key factors, tricking it. And cycles were great for that reason, because you cycle and once your body catches on to it, boom, you're done. You're not going to gain anymore. So during that time, while you're not gaining, you're just taking a break. And then when you get back on, your myostatin is back to normal. Boom, you do it again. And that's where that comes in, and it's a lot healthier approach.

Doing a bridge like a TRT bridge, though, I think is still pretty smart. What does that mean? When you come off a cycle, you just stay on a low dose of testosterone. So you're not constantly battling this up and down pattern of being on something and then being completely off and emotional and having low testosterone levels and then getting back on and playing that game, that flux game. Because that has a lot of negative impacts on people mentally. What kind of impacts can it have? Like, for example, because I've heard of some people that it took a little bit for them to be able to get back to their normal levels after having taken exogenous testosterone. So, like, what does that look like for some people?

It depends, one, on the person. There's just some people, you know, there's some people that take testosterone replacement therapy dose and they have gyno. You know, and you can't find it anywhere on their lab work they're just that sensitive to it yeah so you do have a group of people um that you can just take a little bit of testosterone they're going to be shut down for you can't even time it you don't you don't know how long then you have some people that can take it and come right off and you would never even know they took it so aside from those people um you know if you're on a pretty heavy cycle you're never going to come back to normal exactly than what you were before never no if you're doing a very heavy cycle and you're doing it for a long

time no it'll never be normal and you're going to be at that that normal you say you were at 600 let's say and you're 30 years old or you know 28 normal, you say you were at 600, let's say, and you're 30 years old or, you know, 28 years old and you want to do your test trend, DECA cycle and you're doing 12, 16 weeks or so. When you come back off, yeah, you're not going to hit that level. You will hit it, say with Clomiphene and HCG and stuff. So you'll need stuff to be able to hit that level again. You'll never be able to hit it on your own.

Yeah. No, no, no. Damn. Yeah. But you know know it is what it is and again that's why i say stay on you know trt and just have a healthy level and watch just pay attention to your lab work and you can keep a healthy level of testosterone that way not to worry what about staying on a TRT dose? So somewhere between 150 to 200 milligrams a week. Can somebody do that long term and not really have any side effects? As far as, you know, like the estrogen levels going out of whack? Because by then, if they're doing testosterone, they're kind of already, they know that their natural test is either gone or it's not coming back. Do you see any long-term detriment to doing something

like that? No, no. I see that much healthier way than the alternative. And again, it's about tricking your body too, because eventually your body's going to catch up. You know, your body sends testosterone, growth hormone, all these things are impulses. So you get them in a pulse and then it's gone. You know, you have a level and it kind of comes down during the day and it fluctuates depending on how your body's producing it. So when it notices an exogenous hormone, it's typically either the amount of it or the half, the time that it's in your body at that level. So the longer that it's elevated in your body, it realizes that and it will try and do things to get rid of it. So that same dose of TRT,

will try and do things to get rid of it. So that same dose of TRT, depending on how you take it, you can, you can essentially, you can take it the rest of your life with almost no side effects in your body, not even really knowing that you have it in your system, an exogenous form of it. And then there's a way of taking it where your body notices within, you know, the first month. And then you're going to start to see side effects even from that first month onward. And then they start to typically get worse. So it's all about how you take it and the forms and delivery methods that you're taking it and just tricking your body.

Because it's always back down to that, how you can do it so your body doesn't know it. And talking about homeostasis, is it possible to keep any gains from, let's say you take a cycle when you're 18 cause you want to get big and then now you're 25 and you, you know, didn't, didn't take anything, you know, since that time you were 18. Can you hold on to any of that in your opinion? Yeah. So I mean the last time I did an actual cycle,

man, it was before my accident when I did a real, real cycle. I've done, like, for a video, injected Premo Ball, and I've done, you know, like, just for a video, I think we did five mils or something. Anything for Instagram. Yeah, and so, like, I've done those things. I've taken SARMs here on and off during that time. So when I stopped, I was, what, 26 years old? 26, and I stayed on a TRT dose. And I mean, just on that dose, so that's not completely off. But that TRT dose, I was able to always be above 255 or so, 260,

just working out and eating whatever I wanted, really. But I never did anything more than that. And so it is 100% possible to do that. Do you think even without the TRT dose though, like if you did like, because I think there's some people that think like, I'm just going to take this stuff just for a little bit, just for a couple months or maybe just through the summer. And then I'm going to, you know, hold on to these gains.

You can hold on to most of them if you do it right. Yeah. If you do it right, if you're not taking certain compounds and you can, you can a hundred percent do it right. Especially, you know, if you do your PCT correctly and you keep your testosterone elevated a hundred percent, you can keep a lot of those gains. You hear a lot of people getting, I've seen videos where Derek has talked about people injecting stuff and they get like bulbs because maybe it was fake stuff or something was messed up in it. How can people make sure that the stuff that they're getting isn't dangerous or fake or, you know, it's going to fuck them up. You can't. You can't. No, unfortunately you can't. Um, that's the, the shitty part about this is,

um, you know, they put these into a schedule where into a schedule where it's like selling methamphetamine. So when you create a market for something and it's not regulated in that market, you're going to have every walk of life trying to make money off it. It's not that it's fake. You can get a bottle of oil over the counter of corn oil and inject it, and you're not going to have that issue. So that will put it in perspective. If you're getting a lump from stuff, you can go to your local store

and go inject oil, and you'll be fine. So if it's causing that, it's the person who's making it. Or a lot of times there's certain solvents and carrier oils where people have reactions to them. And there's some that 90% of the population will have zero reaction from it. That 10% will get adverse reactions from it. And that's why on every single one of those bottles, the side effects are always the same.

Pain at injection site, swelling in the injection site, redness, soreness, you know, lumps. It'll all be in there, but every time you've taken it, everyone you know who's taken it never gets it. There's always that one person that will take it, and then they have to go to the hospital. Because your body might, it's like anaphylaxis. You're injecting a foreign substance right in your body,

past all your defense mechanisms, and it's there now. And so it'll start sending white blood cells to the area, and that's like an infection, like having an infection. So it'll do that, create a bolus, and now you have essentially an infection like having an infection and so it'll do that create a bolus and now you have essentially an infection a sterile abscess and it's just a bunch of white blood cells that got stuck around a big bolus of oil and now your body can't break it up so you just have this mass that just sits there you have to drain it so that's actually like my biggest fear of like injecting anything because like you know when i did sarms i'm like well if i get sick

i can just like throw up or you know like i can do something to get that out in my head that's the way i thought but like if you break the skin and something goes in there like you said a foreign foreign substance you can't just be like oh just kidding let me get a plunger and suck that out so like what what is like what do you do just Do you just go right to the hospital? Like is there a certain protocol that you would recommend if something goes bad? Yeah. So, I mean, the right answer is, yeah, go right to the hospital, right? And I've seen it and I've had it happen to me hundreds. You know, I've seen it so many times.

But like I said, I've had it happen to me early on and I know when it's an infection and when it's not. And so I've had it where I couldn't even move my arm for a week. Oh, my God. And all the way down to my hand swollen. But I knew what it was, and I knew I didn't have to go to the hospital, and it cleared up, and it went away eventually. So there's times when you should go, and, you know, I've been around it, you know, going to school, having gone through it myself and knowing what it is and seeing clients or friends go through it. For me, it's very easy to tell when it is and when it's not because a lot of people just have a bad shot you know it could be even next to a nerve you know you put pressure on that nerve man and your whole i think it was boston was it boston lloyd who did that in his arm and his whole arm

like swelled up and like a elephant titus and it was just shooting that yeah he just was right there at the nerve when he shot it so and uh you know so there's just times i would say just just to be safe yeah sure go yeah um you know but nine times out of ten it's gonna clear and can you get in trouble like if you go to the hospital and they're like what happened you're like i injected steroids like can you get in trouble for that no but it's going to be in your medical file. Yeah, okay. And when they see that in your medical file, you're looked at as an addict. I mean, they treat you like shit.

They won't help you for nothing in the future. I mean, it's dirty what they'll do when they see that for some reason. I don't know why. They look at that and just wish you're exactly what they never had their entire life, so they get upset with you. And they just, it's sad. They'll deny you medical care because of that. You know, I won't deny you medical care, but it's proper treatment.

And then when they do cut that thing out of you, they're fucking ruthless too. Especially if that's in your file. When you say ruthless, you mean like? Oh my God. Well, like mean like... Oh, my God. Well, like they did to me, man. I'm going to need a Kleenex after that one. I got you. I was just... It happened to me.

I went in, I had a bolus in my shoulder, and I could not get it out. I had an 18-gauge, man. I put an 18-gauge needle, needle i tried draining it and i'd get little bits but it was just making it worse because um i had all the white blood cells that's what happens thank you i had all the white blood cells going to the area and um and it forms this bolus and it just got larger and larger and then um i had to go in man i was like there's no way i can get this done none of my friends would do it for me either like i couldn't have anybody cut that open for me even if i walked them through it and uh so i go in and then the guy i saw the guy he used to go to my gym and he recognized me and he was like

he saw it he just gave me this look dude and i was like fuck man and i'm like oh god he's like what happened and i tried to tell him it's from a bad glucagon shot because I do have on there low blood sugar issues. So I was training and then had low blood sugar. I had to take a glucagon shot in the gym and it was all dirty and whatnot. But that's not how that type of infection would be, right? And it was that deep. So usually that would go systemic because it's a smaller needle. It's a water-based.

You shoot it in your shoulder, it's going to just go everywhere. I just had it localized into one bolus of oil so he knew what it was i knew what it was and then he goes he started to drain it and it worked man they put a 16 gauge during there but they got it they popped it and they started filling up 20 30 cc's at a time they would shoot it out and i'm like oh my god it's great he goes no we got to get the rest we got to make sure it doesn't come back i'm like what do you do come on man like and he knew it was a sterile abscess and he just grabbed it grabbed the scalpel man he's like all right you ready for this they cleaned it up and then just fucking cut right into my shoulder while i'm awake dude and just took this probe and just started digging and digging for like 15 minutes and oh yeah it was awful and he

didn't have to do that he knew he didn't have to do that brutal yeah so now i gotta scar that from it it sounds like you started really young like what age were you when you started 18 and uh what advice would you have for other people that because we we hear like a lot of young people like kind of hopping on stuff uh do you think that maybe you uh hopped on prematurely or if you could you know share this with somebody else that's just starting lifting like like what are your thoughts like is is is this a good idea you know and and and if you know and if not like what are some uh repercussions that maybe uh you ended up suffering from like the abscess and other things um so i was 225 when i started um because i was about 115 when i went in high school in freshman year and then i graduated 235 i was 225 naturally before i ever

touched it and i remember telling myself this is what i'm going to do i'm going to be a bodybuilder i don't even think about you know i'm going to make money being mr olympia this and that but this is what i was going to do and if i was okay with injecting every day of my life, if I had to, and, uh, it worked out in a sense, you know, financially and whatever, um, there was pros and cons behind it, but I reached a point where I knew at 225 pounds and being as lean as I was, there really wasn't much I could do. I was going to have to do it one day or another, you know, it's going to have to happen. That's the route I wanted to go. Um, but what I would say right now, um, looking back, you know, it did give me a place and a platform to help other

people now. So I don't, you know, I'm not just telling somebody, Hey, take this, you know, take this and this, I'm actually able to go, you know, maybe you should do something else, or maybe you should take something different and start here. Cause you know, I'm actually able to go you know maybe you should do something else or maybe you should take something different and start here because you know I'm able to help people that way now so I do say I don't regret it myself but after going through what I've gone through in that field I would especially at that age I would say don't do it. No, don't do it. And maybe like how long to maybe wait if somebody is like, fuck, man, I still would love to, you know, look into doing it at some point. You know, if you have, listen, if you have a scholarship on the line, if you got a source of income or something that you love and, you know, you're going to be able to make money off it, you're going to have a career from it or potentially a career or something that you love and, you know, you're going to be able to make money off it. You're going to have a career from it or potentially a career or something.

I get it. Do it. I would say do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even look past it. Do it. Because that's what you love and that's something, you know, that can help benefit you and make money and help you and your family. Go for it, man. If you just want to look better, start with some alternatives. You know, you're probably always going to, you know, If you're questioning it, you're probably going to do it.

But at least start with some alternatives first and then see if it's for you. Because once you start, you're not going to stop. You're not going to stop. You're going to have to be injecting something the rest of your life. We just talked about TRT. You're going to have to do that one way or another. Just remember that. And it seems, you know, harmless a lot of times, but you know, you start, how do you get it right? Who are the people you have to get it from? What are they involved in? You know, a lot of times it starts something so simple. And the next thing,

you know, you're manufacturing for a biker gang or you're, you know, I mean, it can go wild. Like you have no idea how far it can get. And, you know, that's an extreme, but I'm just saying it can, it can be a lot different than what you think. I have a good question, man. Cause I mean, I've, I mean, I've heard Mark say this too. And other people that have come on and said, like, if you do start, you're going to be on for the rest of your life.

Really? Why is that? Why is it that a majority of people that do like they usually are on something for the rest of their life. Really? Why is that? Why is it that a majority of people that do like, they usually are on something for the rest of their life. Why? I think here, um, most of the people that are going to take it, you know, there's a deeper reason why they want to take it. And, uh, you're never going to come off cause you always want to look good. You know, most of the people taking it for that reason, they essentially, they just want to look better. They want to feel better. So why do you ever want to go backwards you know it's you're

never going to go okay i'm just going to come off now once you start seeing yourself and feeling down your hormones are down you're not going to speak i'm happy like this oh i'm happy not being able to bench the same and now it hurts my elbows you know you're going to be like fuck that you know i don't want that to happen i'm going gonna keep going and you never want to look worse you never want to go backwards so it's gonna be yeah it's a tough it's really hard for somebody the mental strength and you know and that's why i think cycling does come into play because you know taking a break but knowing that you're gonna come back and knowing that you're gonna come back better and just taking that time off to just better yourself and be you go eat go you know do stuff you weren't doing when you're going to come back better and just taking that time off to just better yourself and be you go eat, go, you know,

do stuff you weren't doing when you're on cycle, you know, when you're super disciplined. So that's where I think, you know, homeostasis and that, in that instance, you know, mentally. So. What about SARMs? Where did these things pop up from? Where did they come from? We traveled the world looking and we still don't know. No, they, so they're supposed to No, they, um, so they're supposed to be,

and this is, this is how I say it because I think their name implicates something totally different. I think it's not a selective antigen receptor modulator. What it is, it's a synthetic steroid. That's all these things are. And that's where people need to look at these because they're looking at them

totally different. When you use that term, then you just limited it. It's potential because being selective and only working there, it only gives it so much ability, but that's not how it works. What they did with steroids was, you know, when they started creating all these new designer steroids was make it more effective anabolically and less androgenic, right? Because we don't want the androgenic side effects. We want the muscle part of this and nothing else. So the better the compounds were, the less androgenic, right? Because we don't want the androgenic side effects. We want the muscle part of this and nothing else. So the compounds were the less androgenic, the more anabolic they were.

You start getting things like Premobon, right? And then when you get to SARMs, all the SARMs were was, okay, how do we make it more anabolic with less androgenic effects still? It was the same thing. So they got it down to a point where you can take 5 milligrams of a substance and you're getting a benefit, like say the LGD, you'll notice a difference five to 10 milligrams on this with very little to zero androgenic effects. But you get five to 10 milligrams of any steroid, you'll never have that effect. It'll cause shutdown, but you're not going to have any anabolic effect from that. So what it is, is they just eliminated the androgenic side effects or tried

to and increase the anabolic effects of a steroid and being synthetic now you're pretty much limitless you can just it's no end to it really you can make millions of compounds out of these now there's like does anybody know where they like literally came from because like they're kind of newer right like they're within the last 20 years or so like 40 30 40 years or so like a dude like accredited with like they're starting them up i mean if it happened like not that long ago i'm thinking like there should be doctor somebody well that's that's the thing i think we we gave it a name and i think bodybuilders gave it a naming and made it a thing. But, yeah, these have been around for a very long time. It's just they've been so terrible, you know, in its inception.

They weren't giving the effects that we wanted them to, you know, making them very mild when it comes to the side effects. But, yeah, they've been around for a very long time. And just the very first drugs that they ever were working on, most of those, they've already thrown those out because they've come up with so many more effective ones. So they've been around. It's just what happens is, again, it's an illegal market, right? Or a gray area market. I want to make money off this now. So I'm going to pick, okay, I'm going to read these studies and see if these ones look promising. So I'm going to go to China and I'm going to buy these powders. Now I'm going to sell it and market it as this name or market it for muscle building effects and call it a SARM.

And that's how these things come to our market. It was just somebody saw a way to make money off it and they picked which ones because a lot of the SARMs that are out are terrible. They're terrible and there's so many more effective ones, but the price to buy these things is so expensive. So why do that when I can buy Ostrine for essentially nothing and then get this much effect or side effect from it and people are going to think it works great. Right?

So I'm going to make money off it now rather than buy this one that's 100 times the cost, zero side effects, but all the anabolic effects of it. So that's really how they kind of came into our market and we're just stuck with a bunch of some of them are good but we're stuck with some really bad ones too and which ones would be

costing a hundred times more than something like austrian well i mean the names of them there's so many different all the lab names and stuff yeah yeah okay um but i mean for example one that's out right now like rad 140 i would say would probably be the most effective one that we're seeing when it comes to, like, these peptide companies and stuff. If you were going to get one with the least actual side effects, the androgenic side effects, I would say the RAD 140. And that would show, again, price on powders compared to something like Ostrane. Mind-blowingly different.

But they push Ostrane in these places because it's so cheap to buy. And it's still more expensive than a steroid, but it's so cheap to buy, and then they can actually sell it and make money because you will see an effect. Some side effects, too, which a team taking is going to go, oh, it's working. I'm getting acne. I'm getting something you shouldn't be getting from what a SARMA essentially would be. Yeah, back in the SARMAgeddon days, it's like two years ago, Tony was saying that injectable SARMs are going to be more popular,

he was saying they were more powerful than actual steroids. Do you agree with him? Yeah. I mean, that's why I made them. agree with him? Yeah. I mean, that's why I made them. So what it is, is, you know, every drug has a, every drug is broken down depending on how you take it. It's broken down in a different way, right? You take a drug orally, you take it via injection, you snort a drug. They all have different ways of being metabolized by your body. And when you look at things like Winstraw, Dianabol, let's give D-Ball for example, this is my favorite one. If you look at D-Bol on the actual, the molecule itself, it is no different than Ecopoise. It's the same drug. It's just that one,

you just have a different, it's methylated. And it's methylated so it can, when you take it orally, you can survive the liver destruction of the molecule itself. But that's the only difference, right? So when you inject the Ecopoise or you take it orally, the effects are so mind-blowingly different, right? And what it is is the way it's metabolized in your body, the oral effect versus the injection. So another one is the injection of Winstrol is more effective than the oral Winstrol, right? But D-ball, when you take it orally, you're putting on 15, 20 pounds on this drug, but when you inject it, you gain nothing.

And if you've ever injected actual D-ball, you really don't feel it. You don't notice any difference on that. So you look at those two, and what it does is with disarms, there's just a few things. One, you get different intended effects. You don't know what to expect when we first started doing it. You really won't. Some of them were worse. Some of them were the same and some of them were mind-blowingly better. And you have to look at it in a couple of ways. One, even with SARMs, yeah, they absorb orally, but some only absorb 30%. Your body only absorbs

maybe 30% of the drugs. So you're getting more active hormone from the injection. The other thing is because it's not metabolized directly by the liver when you're injecting it, your SHBG isn't affected or very minimally. So what can happen is when you inject this stuff, your body's not even getting the testosterone shutdown that SARMs aren't supposedly supposed to produce. So you're basically tricking your body by doing the injection where you can do higher milligram, get more effect of the drug, longer acting, and still have less suppression than the oral route. And you can have normal testosterone function, have all the anabolic effects and benefits of a SARM without any of the side effects that we weren't never supposed to have from a SARM in the first place.

So are there side effects? Everything has side effects. Yeah. Oh, of the injection? Yeah. I mean, injection side effects, I would say for any injectable, yes. If you were to take enough of it, you will get suppression for sure. You will eventually start to see a cholesterol change for sure. But if you take enough where there's a sweet spot before your body knows that you're doing it, you can essentially take quite a few milligrams of this stuff before even your body would notice for your cholesterol to make a change. So you can essentially run this stuff and the most you'd ever get some leg pain or you know sore shoulder from a shot wow andrew what happened

like did something ever happen in terms of your because you were taking something and one of your levels went down what happened to you yeah no my my testosterone went down pretty far it was at like a low 400s and then 14 weeks of Ostrin. It went down to like 150 somewhere around there. But it recovered after time? Yeah. I did testosterone pellets and then came off of everything after. And it got back up to like the high 300s of testosterone.

So it was low. It was really low. And then it was low again. So like. And see, that's what I talk about when I say, like, Ostrin, for example. And I'll just say, I think it's a shady SARM. I do. Because you got shut down in the first place, right?

They're not supposed to cause that if it was a SARM, right? They were only supposed to work on the androgenic receptor itself. Although your body, just increasing androgens, your body will sense that, and you will happen to get repercussion from that. But essentially, you should be able to take a SARM and not have shutdown. And that's the choice that these guys made when they were going to start to sell SARMs,

was let's get the cheapest SARM again, and we're going to sell it. And unfortunately, that is one of the cheapest SARMs you can get. And the side effects makes people think it's working. But then you just deny everything about its name. So the more effective SARMs are the more costly SARMs and the harder ones to get and usually the most fake. So when you get, when you take SARMs, you want to take something where you don't even know you're taking it. And that's the shitty thing, right?

How do you sell a drug where you don't even know you're taking it? You know, because that's what it should be like. You should notice some strength increase, and you should definitely see it visually in the mirror, but not enough to where you're going to start having side effects. So you're trying to push a drug to someone that, hey, you're not going to know you're even on it. Just one day you're going to go, oh, wow,

you look way better now than you did a year ago. It's not going to fly. So you've got to have some side effects when they're selling these things where you don't even want to buy it, right? Wow. Are SARMs, are they detectable? You know, like if somebody's competing in the Olympics or a collegiate athlete or something like that?

Yeah. So what they do is they, how they're metabolized in your body, they look for the metabolites, right? So when your body breaks it down, it leaves a metabolite form of the drug, and they're usually testing for these metabolites. And that's why I say too, with the injectable version of these drugs is different metabolites are produced or some metabolites really aren't produced when you're doing this. So yes, they are, certain SARMs are tested for in the Olympics.

Actually, most all of them are. However, the ways that the committees are testing for them are pretty archaic. And the form and delivery methods of SARMs that are available now, you can kind of get around that, if that makes sense. Do people often get around that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. if that makes sense well do people often get around that like yeah oh yeah yeah how prevalent you think um just performance dancing drugs are in professional sports it's in every sport it's in god every every sport i mean i would find it very hard to believe that there's anybody in the top 10 olympics really not taking anything. Really?

I would put my money on the letter. I'd put everything on it. You know, the guy who helped me, you know, when I was in, that guy Nick Perry, the way he told me how they worked, this is in the 90s too, their own coaches would get sheets down in, this is. This is in San Diego at the training facility. They would get the sheets of what they were testing for that year at the Olympics.

Which sport? All sports? Pretty much. But these are the drugs you don't take. That's how they would do it. Don't take these drugs. Everything else is good to go. Until something gets brought up, that's why it's always a scandal in the Olympics. When something does happen, it's like, but the first place guy always a scandal in the Olympics, like when something does happen.

It's like, but the first place guy tested positive for this, this, this, this, this. It's a whole list of things, but they use it for whatever political or whatever game that they're going to get behind it. So it's, yeah, they're all, every sport, golf, man. How come I can get a surgery for my eyes in golf but you know it's it's unreal there's so many different things you can do you got yeah everything yeah i i think uh it i mean you definitely see it a lot in uh in professional sports but you only hear about like occasionally somebody gets you know pop for this or that seems like u like UFC, I kind of hear about it more from UFC.

Maybe they test more or maybe they just want that publicized. I'm not sure. USADA, they do very strict, very freaking strict testing. And then not only that, but it's in their world, so I can't speak on it. But there's a lot of foul play in there too as well, being that it is an independent. How they have USADA implemented in there,

there's some foul play that goes on in there as well. So that's why it's so different with UFC. And it's actually really scary how they can get away with some of those things but uh what do you mean it's not UFC themselves they're contracting you sought out correct yeah what like I don't know when you say that what do you mean exactly or is that something we just well let's say what like it's dangerous how they can get away with certain things oh it's just like the Olympics you know someone can test positive for something,

and then they're going to test you for another substance, or they basically have all the right, they can do whatever they want. They can test you for certain ones and test somebody else for something totally different, or it's basically up to them. Money is involved, and gambling is involved in the sport, then there's always going to be a corruption so i mean it's in everything but i'm curious about this then when since we were talking about sarms you know when andrew was doing sarmageddon i think um he got a lot of uh questions from a

lot of or he asked a lot of individuals questions like oh is this safe for me to do etc so i think some people like stan efferding was like oh don't do it because it hasn't been researched that much yeah he didn't even want to be interviewed for it he was just like don't waste your time okay so that makes me curious like what would you say is i mean all this stuff can be dangerous in some way all of it like trt can be safe for some people it's not serious for some people but what would you say is overall safer for an individual long term in your opinion if done if done well well i do so where he's coming from um i see where he's coming from and unfortunately it's i always go back to the cancer one but when they say oh it hasn't been for you know enough research behind it well look at the things that are researched and how terrible some of those things are.

And the things that get shut down, they're not even given a chance because how much money it takes to even get funding for those things, right? So that's kind of how I dismiss that because that's an argument you could make just to sell creatine. So like creatine monohydrate,

that's the most studied form of creatine there is when there's forms that are mind-blowingly better than that, but they're not researched or researched enough. So just by saying that, I shut that down a little bit. But yeah, what I would say is SARMs would be a great way, but at the same time, it's not the research behind it. It's who's selling it and how you're getting it. Because they're so expensive and they're harder to get, usually it's either faked or there's something you don't want in there. And a lot of times there's a steroid in there or a lot of times there's nothing in there. And so that's what the issue is with SARMs. And so the easier route or the safer route would

be just get testosterone then. Because for nine times out of ten, you're probably going to get testosterone. It might be lower dosed, but at least you're going to get something you know is real. And you know what it is you're taking. Because a lot of those companies, yeah, you buy something you think is going to be a SARM and it turned out to be Dianabol at a low dose or something that's not going to give you what you were buying. And so that's where, otherwise I would say, yeah, for sure, hands down, get a SARM first. What are some supplements that maybe people don't know about?

Like we mentioned creatine, that seems to be a fairly good one. Do you like creatine? And what was this other creatine you were mentioning? So I usually got most of my things in the diet because I would eat so much food, so I'd get enough steak, I usually got most of my things in the diet because I would eat so much food. So I'd get enough steak, I'd get enough nutrients. So supplements weren't really big for me. Never had an issue with it.

However, things that you got to look at things that, you know, how I looked at it was, okay, this drug can cause, you know, issues with my insulin levels, right? Or my insulin sensitivity. So what can I take that would block that? And that's like the reason why we had like slim pills was because these will keep your insulin sensitivity balanced or it'll keep it, your longevity of it well until you're basically in your deathbed and have healthy insulin levels, you know, your entire life. And now I can run this compound and not have to worry about diabetes or have to worry about cancer,

certain forms of cancer and stuff because of that. So that's how I would look at supplements. And one of them is, you know, look at your insulin sensitivity and supplements that help with that. That's one I've always been really big on. Testosterone was another one. It's like things that would help with your glucose,

like alpha lipoic acid, berine berberine yeah and so a lot of them are glucose disposal agents and i'm not as big on those but they do help with those products i'm more more keen on just making your the receptor more um more sensitive to it which that is one way to make it sensitive is to just get rid of the glucose, but more so just making it sensitive so you can run certain compounds that'll make them more effective and you can run them longer, like growth hormone and insulin. And that's how I would always look at supplements. So that, and then coming off, if you were to do cycles, things like testosterone, yeah, for sure. But in terms of like newer, newer age things, I'm more so about longevity and, and just keeping your body healthy now and trying to keep, you

know, it's, it's harder, it's easier said than done. But there's a lot of things in there and nootropics as well that I'm kind of getting into. But other than that, man, no, I really don't. I'm not. I get most of my supplements for my my diet alone. But when you mentioned the creatine, like you said, there's other types of creatine that are better than creatine monohydrate. What other types did you mean? Oh, God.

Just you can encapsulate a creatine, right? Really? You can do encapsulated creatine. I would do mine at home. So that helps better absorption of it or something? Yeah. So at home, well, I got lucky, so not everyone can do this, but when you have a nanomachine, you can play around with a nanomachine, and you can take things like creatine and shrink

them down a bit and then encapsulate them into something where it doesn't get eliminated in, say, water or the pH level changes, it's going to destroy it, your stomach acid breaks it down. You can make it all the way into your intestine lining where it'll absorb through your intestines, and then that little encapsulation method you use or whatever it was, your polyethylene, whatever you encapsulated in, goes throughout, and then you just poop that part out and you absorb the actual drug or or supplement so you know that's that's what i was kind of getting at there okay um but no there are there are plenty i mean shoot what is that even that uh was that purple brand creacoline the creacoline that was a great one well so what's the difference

there that one was supposed to be a ph stable creatine and they have a patent for it and i remember i took that and i took that and by targo and that was like the only time i ever noticed creatine to work was when i took those two and um after that i just got so much of it my diet there was really no reason for me to supplement with it and that's how i always kind of told people where if you have to supplement with something, then you're doing something wrong. And that's, you know, you should be able to get enough nutrients, even when you're cutting down somehow, you should be able to find out timing and, you know, you should be able to

get everything you need in there. Is there anything you would take to enhance maybe like the digestion or absorption of protein? enhance maybe like the digestion or absorption of protein yeah so again instead of doing um like probiotics and enzymes and stuff i would get that through your diet and like yogurt culture and yogurt and stuff like that because i've done every probiotic i've been prescribed them they did nothing for me unless it was like a liquid form there was one uh the other trevor um from canada he uh there's one that he gave me and it was a liquid form. There was one, uh, the other Trevor, um, from Canada, he, uh, there's one that he gave me and it was a liquid form and these things just lived off, you know, that's how they

survive. You're basically giving it its food in there and it's living off this and you keep it refrigerated, but that's essentially what like the yogurt is and, and cultured items and kimchi, stuff like that. You throw those in your diet and you'll notice a very, very big difference as opposed to try to supplement with probiotics and enzymes that way. So getting them through your diet naturally that way, I've always found to be a hundred times more effective than the supplements. So I'm really not that big on supplements as much anymore because I kind of, back to homeostasis, I'm going to keep bringing that up. It's found

here somewhere on earth you know we were getting it somehow before and we've just managed to strip it out of our diets now and so that's why we're trying to supplement with all these things when it should have been there in the first place but definitely cultured stuff and kimchi I mean there's a lot of them are pretty good but that's how I get them especially with stomach issues there's a lot of them are pretty good, but that's how I get them, especially with stomach issues. It's a really big one. There's a peptide now. Well, you can take it for stomach issues now, too. But aside from that, yeah, I just stick with the diet route.

Do you have the same thought? Because you're saying like it's everything we need, we can get it from here on Earth somewhere. But like we're talking about it for bodybuilding because like bodybuilding is just not natural so i mean i don't know if yogurt's gonna make somebody's next olympian but you know what i mean like um do you still have that same thought when it comes to somebody trying to get like really really big and try to get on stage yeah that's exactly what i'd say it for because just because like like i said the the probiotics they don't it's not the same when you're buying them over the counter or in a supplement form they they don't have the effects like when they're

doing them in these studies look at the way these probiotics are given cultured and grown and then immediately given in a study versus in vitro versus in a real world setting or in vivo where we're going to get these probiotics culture and put them in a powder form put them through an encapsulation machine and these things are just going to be fine by the time they get to you and then when you take them they're going to work and it's not how they work um as good as eating something like let's say kimchi where they're just living in there and growing in your refrigerator and then so you're getting the active form of that ingredient um so that's what i mean when i say you can get it from here in much better form until we can find a way um kind of like trevor gave it to

me in that liquid form find a better way to make supplements or a better way to make those more effective and keep them alive because those are kind of like living cells, you know, that you want to keep alive and not kill them. What's the deal with Viagra and Cialis and bodybuilding? Because you hear about that shit a lot. Yeah. So this is a tough one because they do have an effect. And when it comes to vasodilation and you look at PD-5 inhibitors, yes, they work,

but they don't work on skeletal tissue in the same way that they work on smooth tissue, like for your heart, for your dilation of those major blood vessels and arteries. So what's the effect they're even looking for? Vasodilation. And what does that do? Is it just bigger pumps or something? Yeah, so more blood flow. More blood flow. So your blood pressure can drop a few points too, which is also one of the intended effects of them.

It's something that you have to watch out for. But by dilating the blood vessel and allowing more volume of blood to the area, essentially you get more nutrients to it. That's what the nitric oxide, the argument behind nitric oxide. Very similar in bodybuilding. So it's still common? With Vagra? Yeah. Probably more now than ever. Really?

Yeah, more now than ever. And it does, like I said, it does have its effect and it does have an intended effect that helps in bodybuilding. But I think it's being used a little bit too much. Because I think it doesn't used a little bit too much. And because I think it doesn't work to make you as vascular as people would think.

And because that's not how PD-5 inhibitors essentially work. But they do have its use, yeah. So what would be some, I guess, good things if people are looking to get vascular, right? Because people ask me about this all the time. And for me, it's's like just get leaner and get your electrolytes in but yeah on the other end of things what do those guys look like look look at to try to get more vascular well it's like honestly man i'd be 100 honest right now it's exactly what you said i you can look to take things that make you more vascular but in the end it comes down to those same things being hydrated about you can trick your body too it's just like anything

you restrict something from it and then you give it something then at once and then it'll dilate for you so when you start doing calorie restrictions and then people go they start cheating and whatnot and now okay what happens is you do your calorie restriction, you got rid of your glucose, you're getting rid of your glycogen, right? Which is a lot of that is water. Most of it's water. So when you do introduce the carbohydrates back in your diet and some sodium and electrolytes for that to store, now your body will automatically do everything for you. Your entire vascular system will dilate and you will get an increase in flux of nutrients into the muscle and you'll see it just by introducing those key essential groups in your body. And so it really is. But if you are fat and you have fat or too much subcutaneous water,

you're not going to see it as much, but you should see it no matter what you'll see it. And there's nothing that's going to just mind-blowingly make it that much better you know it really isn't yeah i wanted to uh go back to what we were talking about with like usada and some of the testing and how you're saying that like pretty much everyone at the top is somebody's going to be on something um a conversation we had a while back now about what would suffice as a good enough drug test that would when somebody claims natty like because we get this all the time within sema like we can run all the tests on him and somebody will be like oh he just knows how to cycle off or um whatever somebody else was paid or it wasn't a legit test what do you think is a legit way to prove that somebody

actually is drug free with what drug steroids i guess oh i know it's a blanket statement but okay so no no you do um you do your standard steroid test right you do look for your active metabolites and whatnot but the other thing is what they're not talking about and how the clear was made. And they were looking for other hormones too. And you can go through things. So, I mean, you can look at conversion rate. You can go and look at the enzymes, right? So like pharmacogenetic testing, you can look at how many enzymes are being produced. So 5-alpha reductase enzyme, which is converting something into DHT, like testosterone into DHT, correct?

And then your aromatase enzymes, you can look at those and see how many of those are being produced by your liver. So you can specifically look at enzymes that break down hormones, key hormones in your body. And you can see other hormones and other factors that are typically attributed to this too. So seeing an increase in certain levels in your lab works, but specifically, if you want to go in depth, it would be just enzymes. You can see that someone's taking oral medication just from certain very specific oral enzymes that are being produced. And you know, you can basically call them out on almost anything based off your enzymes.

How does one get an enzyme test? Is that expensive? And how far back does that go? Yeah. What do you mean? Like if somebody took something at 18 just to get a little jacked and then now they're 29? Yeah. Can that still be tracked or is that just like gone? No.

Okay. Yeah, it would be different. All right. But if you catch them on the slip, you know. Yeah. So it's really not too expensive um and how i even found the machine i didn't find it myself but the our friend of ours over at toning huge labs i think is what they call it still um i know it sounds so funny saying that um but we'll stick

to that um they have the machine there and it's a, it's a great machine, man, because it will tell you how you metabolize every drug there is known to man. And if you were to just get this test done, it's like 200 bucks or so you get this one test done and you have this card and it will tell the doctor, the first responder, every medication not to give you and what you respond well to. So you can skip a thousand medications, man, in your lifetime. Antidepressants will tell you what you'll have a negative reaction to. And it's incredible, but they don't want anybody to have this stuff. That sounds, we got to do that. It is on point. It is crazy how on point it is. I have Tony's. I got mine done.

It is on point. Every medication that Tony's ever told me he has adverse reactions to, boom, right there highlighted. I mean, yeah, it's unreal how accurate that thing is. And what's that called? It's a pharmacogenetic test. Holy shit. Yeah, it's, man, I tell everybody to get it done because. It's just 200 bucks.

Yeah. Wow. And that's just for like the drug one. It might be like 250 or so now, but I mean, your entire life, if you're taking any medication at all, I would say get it done because you might be taking one that's causing something else to happen. And you wouldn't even know, maybe five years from now, you have a heart attack from it. You know, it goes, I mean, it's that in depth. Damn. So you'll probably tell if you're like gluten intolerant then.

Yeah, that too. That's another one. That's a, yeah yeah that is an actual one we gotta take a field trip to tony huge labs right then cali what's the deal with these peptides there's all kinds of peptides that have popped up in the last 10 15 years or so and people are people are pretty obsessed with them again that's another one that these things have been around forever they've been around since the 90s, which is not forever. But, I mean, they've been around a long time.

It's just somebody, again, they've seen this and go, how can we make this, bring it to performance enhancing, right? Bring it into bodybuilding. Because there's some sports where a lot of these things have been there before. And a lot of times it's bodybuilders who are introducing this to other sports. And we're usually the first ones because it's a bunch of drug addicts looking at which drug to take to get better, right? But that's usually how it happens. So someone was over there and, wow, look at these peptides. It does this and does this. And then they'll bring it here to the States and start selling it on a peptide company. And then now they're the king and the leader of this peptide,

but it's just been around, you know. And so they are great. And a lot of them, most of them aren't or haven't been fully researched, and I get that. And a lot of them don't really necessarily need too much testing to be done for it because there's really not much long-term side effects, depending on what it is, that you could really have from certain ones. you could really have from a certain, you know, certain ones. But when you're affecting a metabolic process, um, that's very important to the body. That's how you kind of can judge things for yourself and see like, you know, on paper it does this in the studies it's doing this, but you're probably going to have a side effect if it's something as strong as, I mean, let's say, let's say IGF for example, if it was actual IGF you can have some pretty extreme side effects

from that and you should probably want to steer away from that certain IGF forms versus something that's going to be releasing IGF telling your body to release more of it or let's say GH, growth hormone releasing peptides, they're pretty safe

because it's just telling your pituitary gland to stimulate and produce more of it, or let's say GH or growth hormone releasing peptides, they're pretty safe because it's just telling your pituitary gland to stimulate and produce more of this as opposed to just giving it tons of it because then you're forced to do whatever that hormone or active peptide is telling it to do. I've heard really good things about some of the ones that help with recovery of like an injury. You know, people talk about like B bpc 157 and tb 500 yeah 500 yeah um how effective do you think those things are and also like are are they dangerous it appears to me like it doesn't they don't seem to have much danger at all but i i don't have any idea so those

would be two that i'd put in that same category where, I mean, look at what metabolic processes do those change, which really they're not changing anything. Angiogenesis maybe. You're getting proliferation of blood vessels and stuff and creation of new blood vessels. They tried to say that TB500 could have some form of cancer attachment to it. But when you look at, when you go into the actual research behind it, it was, it's, yeah, in humans, you don't really, it just doesn't go, they need a lot more further testing

to ever even make that claim. But that'd be as far as I would say everything causing cancer at this point. But no, with those two, they're mind blowing. You have to look at it too, like, you know, they're going to work in its sense. I look at it as building a house. You know, you have to look at it too like you know they're gonna work in its sense i look at it as building a house you know you have your technology your construction crew your equipment then you have your building blocks right you have your concrete your cement and all this

well you can have all the technology in the world to build this amazing skyscraper but what are your building blocks to use to do it and that's where these things are limited in and same even with hormones. How do you build, how do you get bigger? If you don't have the protein to do it, you're not going to make that from nothing. And same with, you know, you had shoulder surgery and you had a ligament or a tendon tear or something before that, let's say. Well, then these peptides are going to cause your body to start this process. But how do we heal that tendon?

What are the building blocks that your body needs in order to put that tendon back together? Because you can tell it what to do and give it that signal or that response, which is that hormone. But if you don't have the basic, you know, fundamentals or the building blocks, how are you going to repair it?

So yeah, those are amazing compounds, those two specifically. And I've taken them just making sure you have everything else with it for them to work. Otherwise you're going to think you're taking nothing people sometimes take it for like muscle tears and just uh chronic pain and stuff like that too right yeah tb500 is better with those two with muscle tear and chronic pain i would say the bpc more for ligaments tendons i mean they work hand in hand together though So I'd always tell people take them together

because they really do work great together, the synergy between them. And then, again, taking the things in order to build whatever it is that's torn or whatever the issue is. So why aren't these things just prescribed more? Because they have such... Because there's no money in it.

Oh, okay. You know? It's the same with the... When we were talking about DMP in the beginning, why give somebody something for 20 bucks when I can make 2.8 million dollars in profit off a cancer patient you know not let's not even talk about the other prescription drugs that you're going to take while you're going through chemo or treatment because that's a whole another list of dollar signs right there as opposed to just giving you a couple hundred bucks of this you know that's how they

look at it and unfortunately it's true because as soon as you start to sell or push anything through clinical testing or trials, you just get shut down. Just year after year after year, you try to push this, and they're just keeping you on the back burner. You just keep throwing more money and more money. But if it says that it's going to help or help somebody in any way and it's not those certain people who are profiting or can profit off it.

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Yeah, it's GHB. So they call it date rape drug, and yeah, it's definitely not the date rape drug. Kind of is. But it puts you... You're in a REM sleep, complete REM sleep for a good, at least three hours, man. And you'll wake up out of that three hours a brand new person.

And it's like you slept two days for that solid eight hours, you know? And then if you look at growth hormone plasma levels, your growth hormones elevated that entire freaking time. And so. I fell asleep on a toilet. Taking it. I fell asleep everywhere. I think i fell asleep on a toilet taking it i fell asleep everywhere i think i fell asleep walking um and i just bought it at a supplement store oh shit i was like this is really great for sleep and it's helps uh increase your growth hormone and all this stuff while you're sleeping and i was like fucking sounds awesome i don't know so bizarre that there was you would think there would be just a mind-blowing amount of car accident

i took so i took like one little shot of it one night and i went to bed and i didn't really notice that big of a difference so the next night i was like i'm gonna stay up and so i i drink i drink the one shot and then i wait a little while and i little while, and it's got to be like 30 minutes later, right? I'm like, I still don't feel anything. So I go and grab another one, and I take another shot of it. And then afterwards, I read the label, and it's like, oh, it takes like 30 minutes to kick in. So now I got both these dosages in me. But that's typical Mark Bell, though.

Right. Double whatever the label says. Okay, if it was not just me, then I would have done the same. Yeah, yeah. dosages in me but that's that's that's typical mark bell though right double whatever yeah double level says okay that's not just me then i would have done this yeah yeah i was like i'm not feeling anything from this what's this supposed to do it was just a oral drink like you just yeah yeah what is it these days same i mean yeah it's when you manufacture it it's a powder or like yeah it's a powder slash crystal and then um what the xyra and them do is they'll get the powder and just put it in water and you'll have gram per ml conversion and they because it's pretty much if you make it right if you do like a sodium hydroxide

um way to make it it's might have a little tiny salty taste to it but that's about it so you can put in anything you never know you're drinking it. What's GHB stand for? Gamma-hydroxybutyrate, I believe. Wow. And, yeah, gamma. Sorry. Sorry I had too much in here. It just gets you into, like, mainly, like, a deep sleep phase, which is, like, probably the most important part of your sleep, I guess.

Yeah, the rapid eye movement, the REM sleep, which is where the most growth hormone is produced. And that's why your growth hormone plasma levels, it's, levels, it's elevated over 10,000% during this. So whether you're awake or you're asleep, you're basically in that zone like you were asleep. And before people, does it affect any other parts of your sleep? Like it increases REM, but does it decrease any other parts of your sleep or does it? Well, the more time you're in one stage and you're not you're you're basically taking away some of the other stages yeah

so and they have shown that in studies like delta sleep and um you're gonna wake up pretty fucked probably right wake up pretty tired or no no you wake up oh no god you wake up amazing what about with prolonged use like if you use it for like a few weeks on end just side effects in general i can imagine some people just like they want to start using it every night but that can't be good for the other stages of sleep so i've only i've only met one person only met one person who ever had an issue with it where they would take it all the time and they did actually have a when they came off almost like a withdrawal where they didn't sleep as well and they weren't sleeping as good.

And then it went away eventually. But if you're only doing it, if you're only doing it once at nighttime, because the half life is so short, it's those three hours you get full REM sleep. But then if you're sleeping seven hours, you got four other hours, you know, you can still go to those other stages and your body will. But it's for, you you know during that time period you just have increased REM sleep and if you look at the pattern from the state where you fall asleep till the state where you wake up during that time the stages that you're in a lot of that's wasted

time a lot of it's wasted time so it's really not affecting it too much negatively in that aspect and because you're only getting so many hours of this actual drug in your body and which is the time when your body produces most of it anyway, there's really, I mean, there's no long-term effects in that case if you were to do it that way. Because it's like any drug. If you were to take really any drug with a very short half-life one time a day, especially when that's the time your body would be producing it,

you're not going to have much negative repercussions from it but somebody with like sleep apnea probably should either not take it or just be extra cautious because like once you're passed out like are you like all your motor functions gone like you're gonna like suffocate if you took too much and or drank alcohol with it there's another one because it's the same enzyme that's responsible for breaking it down if you were to drink too much on it and then you take it you're gonna sleep but you're gonna sleep no matter what so if you threw up and you're not gonna wake up and there's a bodybuilder this last couple years who passed away from that too but they didn't say what it was from why are bodybuilders. Why are bodybuilders dying? You know, we've seen kind of more people over the last several years dying at young ages.

And not even just dying, but just also having kind of life-threatening issues with, like, liver and kidneys. And, you know, a lot of times a guy will come out and say, hey, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with that. It has to do with my genetics. And it's like, you can't help but think like, well, I don't think the steroids necessarily help. What are some of your opinions on it? Getting type one diabetes or type two diabetes and getting both stages when you're in your mid thirties and saying that it was just genetics and then they're cured from it. Right. That's a funny one. Um, I mean,

it's the lifestyle lifestyle it is what we take and it's what we're doing if you look at why our liver enzymes even elevate in the first place everything we take is going to increase some your kidneys under stress blood pressure protein amino acid training everything that bodybuilders do and what you just named we're we're creating that we're causing those problems. You know, you look at IGF and liver tumors. You know, there's literally everything we do. When you look at when a bodybuilder has passed away, if you told me a bodybuilder and the

reason they passed away, I can tell you probably what it was from. And so it's like every single one is from whatever we're doing, whether it's a drug or a lifestyle choice the combination of them the food the nutrition um but yeah it's it's the lifestyle really the drugs the food it all adds up everything adds up we're pushing it red lines so much that you know we don't give it any breaks until our body our body forces us to take a break and unfortunately sometimes it's permanent is there anything that a majority of bodybuilders that be because not all bodybuilding is at that level but those bodybuilders who do choose to take it to that place is there anything that they could do to do things in a better way or is it just like because

the lifestyle because this is what you have to do to compete at those levels in the NPC, that's just what you're going to risk. No, I think a lot of information is bad information. I think the lifestyle that we have now for what is considered normal, it's not the most effective. And it's not the way to get to the top either. And that's the crazy thing. When I found out I can make money by telling somebody to do the most basic things and they get the best results from it, but it actually worked and helped people. It was mind blowing to me because to me, it seems so simple, but people spend their whole lives trying to look for the, you know, that path or the way to get the most

muscle and to look this way. But it, a lot, a lot of people wouldn't believe it at first. Cause it's like, I'm telling you to everything you learned,'m telling them the opposite i'm like you have to eat six seven meals a day on time at these you know these exact same times and i'm telling them no if you missed a meal don't don't force it if your body's telling you not to eat don't eat it you know there's so many things that i would say that seem that they're so fucked like you would never expect it. Right. And it's,

and it's a way healthier approach. And that wasn't even the reason for it. The reason for it was to gain the most muscle. And that's what I did. And it's what I learned too. And, uh, it just happened to be a more healthier alternative to it.

And that's just, whatever is set in stone. I don't know why or how it got set in stone. If this is the best way to take more of this and do it this certain way. It's not the way to do it. It's really not. A lot of guys are eating a really, really large amount of carbohydrates, and I guess you're just trying to throw everything at the situation.

Do you think there's a reason to consume, in some cases, 800 to 1,000 grams of carbohydrates? I did it. I did it for a diet. I think I got up to about 1,500 grams of carbohydrates? I did it. I did it for a diet. I think I got up to about 1,500 grams of carbs when I was leaning out. But again, it's- That's a world record. That's amazing.

How long did you do that for? Oh, man. It was good for about five weeks or so. Damn, that's a long time. 1,500 grams of carbs a day. Oh, okay, 1,500. I was probably down to about 1,200 after two 1500 i was probably down to about 1200 after two weeks and then down to a thousand two weeks after that so it dropped down to 200 or so um but i would do

very little to no fats you know except for like premise oil and essential fats and just get the essential ones in there so i wouldn't shut my metabolism off um and so i did that and oh man it was great but because because love carbohydrates, I love food, but then you start going the other way, where you're like, man, I want a burger, dude, I don't want to eat this pancake again, and it goes the opposite, but you would shut down one nutrient for another,

and that's where I started to learn again, was you can make somebody, you can do the same thing on low fats, you can do the same thing on low carbs, mix them, it's all about homeostasis it really is and if you shut down one nutrient from the body and start throwing another one that's one way of doing it you know you can do it on a high carb low fat diet and vice versa but the high carb issue is when they're trying to gain weight um i think that's what most people are

what are you doing at that point you're just throwing throwing in, you have a car, a race car, and you're just going to sit there and put fuel into this tank and it's splattering out everywhere. But you're like, let's just give it more, keep doing that, because that's what's going to win the race, and that's not what's going to win the race. There's a reason to have carbohydrates and a reason not to have them and a reason to have a certain form of them and a reason not to.

And then you have your fats and then you have your protein. So everything has to be in there at a balance and at the right time and place. Cause I can make somebody fat and lose muscle at the same calories and same exact macro nutrients, uh, as somebody else with, you know, it's just how you take them there. It's just about how, when you have those nutrients and when not to have them, you know, I'm not going to have all my fats and stuff or carbohydrates before bed and do all my training first thing in the morning. You know, I am going to take advantage of that window of time and opportunity to get those.

And there's a way to structure it when not to have them and when to have them. And to keep your body guessing too is another important thing, you know. And to have times in the day where you're burning fat, times in the day where you're building muscle, and that's how I call it, you know, and times to be in maintenance phases and times to have recovery and stuff so that keeps your body guessing you're not redlining one way or one direction for too long because as soon as

you do that you just put a you just put an alarm clock on to when your effects are going to stop benefits um earlier you know a second ago we're talking about like bodybuilders passing away and stuff. Tony had a hard time with, we're going to call it the flu in Thailand. Yeah, censorship. But our bodybuilders and Tony and guys like that, that are taking different compounds, are they compromising their immune system with these compounds? Or is it, again, just the lifestyle? Is it just the fact that being bigger makes it harder to breathe? Being bigger is a big thing, especially because the main effects that he was having, a lot of people are having, are respiration and breathing. So, I mean, every pound you get, and when we're taking hormones and things that are causing water to retain,

just a little bit of water around your heart makes it so hard to breathe. I mean, you can be the same size as somebody else, but have just a little bit more water on that organ, and it's like being 300 pounds. And so you take somebody and put that, and you're going to make it harder for them to breathe. It feels like you're drowning, and it's awful. So one, the weight of a person does make a difference. How the weight's distributed, what is it from, and especially hormones that are causing that makes it so much harder on a bodybuilder.

But two, yeah, they do. When you're on these hormones and stuff, you do have a better, your body's immune system is much more effective it's coming off of these things and being off them and then you know eating all this crappy food and stuff that's what's really you know causing an issue with bodybuilders but aside from that no

it will help them but then when they do get it it's going to make it much worse much much worse what do you think the biggest difference is between like the way Arnold But then when they do get it, it's going to make it much worse. Much, much worse. What do you think the biggest difference is between, like, the way Arnold was years ago, and now you've got guys like Big Ramy? What's the difference between kind of the old-school bodybuilding and what we see today where guys are like 300 pounds on stage? Man, I would say everything.

But I think the other part of it, it really is genetics too. It really is, man. We signed Big Ramy and Dennis James. I know a lot more information than most people. And I'll say it is not what people think. He has great genetics and he has a great work ethic. There's nothing crazy that anybody is doing that I haven't already talked about. There's no secret or anything to it.

It's just the difference between these two generations is I think a lot, mainly people have lost the hard work aspect and they always jump to the hormones right away and, and they're training less and getting into that mindset. And I just think people take one thing to an extreme or take it too far um nowadays and they might just take one aspect of it and do it that much that way too far and then the trend just kind of rotates and changes every few years um but yeah i think the biggest thing we've lost is hard work and yeah hard training and hard work not saying that's big rami but i'm just saying that's the

difference between these generations i just think um we're just seeing more different parts of the gene pool and big rami just is one of those guys like a ronnie coleman he's got a freaking amazing set of genetics on him he's got an amazing coach behind him and he works hard just like anybody else that's been in that olympian chair so but i think what people are doing nowadays yeah it's just go right to the drugs right right to the drugs i would say that um just with my little understanding is that something that was probably a game changer was growth hormone and insulin i mean they seem they seem to make a huge, huge difference, but I do agree with you, what you're saying a hundred percent, like we don't have the genetics to kind of have that look that the pro bodybuilders have, where they kind of have muscle on top of

muscle where you're like, I don't know what that is. I've never seen that before. You're like, that guy over there is really jacked, but that dude, like there's something different about, uh, it is, it is really fascinating. But people are utilizing insulin, growth hormone. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If you're going to say what drugs and things have changed. Yeah. So 100%.

Those two right there, that changed bodybuilding forever. Those two drugs. And that's if you look at it. And sports, right? Oh, God. Everything. I mean, everything. You look at growth hormones used in almost every every sport there is

uh you could probably find growth hormone in there and you test for insulin i mean you can test if you're on it yeah but i mean you could stop taking insulin for right yeah and then no but it's really kind of undetectable almost and they're really not even using insulin as a banned substance in these things because you need it. It's necessary to live. Right. So I've never seen anyone actually use it.

What does it do? It drives nutrients into, for bodybuilders, the reason it's so powerful in bodybuilders is, sure, you get the driving of nutrients in the muscle faster and you can increase protein synthesis, and that's's great but when you mix it with growth hormone which essentially isn't really anabolic at all but it's a precursor hormone to things that are very anabolic and cause proliferation of cells and what insulin does is bind to certain receptors where you don't want things like igf which is what growth hormone is broken down and produced into.

It goes to something, there's a receptor called the IGF-BP3 receptor and mainly found in your intestines. And it's a defense receptor where if you have excess IGF, it usually goes there. And then intestines start to grow and swell and stuff. What you do with insulin is when you take it, yeah, you get your intended effect, what you wanted, but it goes to those cells too, those receptors too, and it out-competes that IGF. So when your body does break the growth hormone into IGF, you get twice the IGF that you would normally, and it lasts twice to three times longer because the insulin is found at those receptors where your IGF is going to get wasted too. So now you can take less of the actual hormone and get twice or three times better the effect. And then you can have those two ex actual hormone and get twice or three times better the effect,

and then you can have those two exogenous hormones together at the same time, which they're not supposed to be there normally. You mentioned earlier that in a majority of top 10 pro sports that most people are on something. What are the type of drugs that you think are being used in sports like football, baseball, basketball to an extent maybe? Growth hormone for sure. Growth hormone. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're always talking. What's the number one thing you're talking about in football, on TV?

You know, what's this guy doing? Who's on the injury list? Who's injured? And, you know, if this guy has a healthy season or he's going to come back on this day, it's always injury. And what's the number one thing that we know about for injury and growth hormone? It starts there. And then you get the peptides like BPC and the TB500s. You just don't get into those on television, but most people know about the growth hormone.

And it is one of the most successful things with recovery, with surgery, outside of stem cells and stuff. And are those the types of drugs that a lot of these athletes use TUEs for? Because, I mean, we heard recently from one of our guests, like a lot of athletes more than you'd expect are on therapy use exemptions. And they're okay, like they're able to get away with that. Oh, they're still having that? I don't know, in like UFC they took that out. Oh, so they're able to get away with that. Oh, they're still having that? I don't know. In UFC, they took that out. Oh, so they're having it. Yeah, apparently in a lot of basketball and other sports,

a lot of athletes are on TV. That's probably why we're still breaking records. I didn't even know that there was still – I had no idea. I haven't even been following that close to know. I thought that was gotten rid of a while ago. Guys, am I tripping or didn't one of our guests mention that? Yeah, they did. I don't remember who it was.

I forget what sport they were referring to, but yeah. Wow, that is awesome. But is that why more? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I was just wondering. I think they're just taking – it just got out into the public more probably because they've been doing that. That's why I said I thought a lot of that was taken out or cut onto because you saw it happen in fighting, and they made a big deal about it in fighting where it was like – because it's a physical sport where you can hurt another person.

That's where it should really be watched. But again, if it's a sport where it's entertaining and it's not hurting another person. Like you want to see that person be the best they could be. You know, that's what you're paying to watch. So, you know, it's not really brought up in a negative fashion until somebody is upset and like, oh, that team beat mine or whatever. And it's because he's on this and that. That's when it becomes the issue. So I just haven't been following close enough to know that they were still doing it. But I would say 100 percent.

And I would say they've been doing it for a long time they're probably that close group of people are probably that who know about it or they're pushing it everywhere i guess if you knew you're going to get tested you know and you have a contract with you know you you start to enter the ufc wouldn't it just make sense to uh you know be on a modest dose of stuff going in and now it's a little i know but i'm saying like how well i don't know i guess they maybe they can catch you with the metabolites or something but um to keep your testosterone levels in like a certain range just from day one so that way they never get skewed take a little testosterone take a little growth hormone yeah right when you walk in the door

you're already at 800 you know,000 testosterone or something like that. Yeah, the problem with them is they're checking for the metabolites and stuff. And so it's like down to those – remember when they were talking picograms and all this? So a picogram is such a – that number is like a fraction of a nano. So it's like they're finding fragments and metabolites in your body from years and years and years ago. and metabolites in your body from years and years and years ago. That's where the problem was is you might have a mixing machine and the Chinese facility that manufactured steroids 10 years ago, and that fucking little picogram got into your creatine,

and you took it 10 years later, and it just happened to find its way in there. That's what the issue was was they were testing for picograms, and these people really weren't taking anything. So that picogram thing is actually legit because I remember remember um i think it was john jones back yeah he was like picograms it wasn't that could have literally been creatine oh 100 i mean it's such a fraction of an amount man i mean it's it's crazy dude like yeah it's it's almost like it should not be legal but at the same time it's like it should be. It's just how it's used, really.

Because, yeah, you can test for things that you would never—they're floating around in your system right now. You would never even know just from a Chinese package or something of food, you know. It's mind-blowing. How do people try to get around? You know, you said that this is like the most stringent. How are people getting around these tests sometimes? It's payment with USADA. With USADA, it's a different thing.

But theirs is a whole – like I said, that's their own issues. I've never had to really – I've dealt with USADA once with a client. And, yeah, we got around it, but he didn't really – but I don't think he was, I mean, he was tested, but not really looked at because a lot of them will test positive for stuff and they're still in there. They still win. They, you know, until somebody brings it up is where it's an issue. That's where the corruption is. So it's like your top guys are all testing positive, but everyone's winning and everything's fine until someone brings it

up. That, and it's like, you know, it's, that's where you know it's that's where i say money that's where i say money comes in and then that's where that's where a coach comes in that's kind of where i got my name was you know let's cheat this test let's get around this test you know everyone else is doing it you know this is how we're going to do it and what they look for a lot of places let's say outside of usada is mainly they would do, you're just checking the metabolite. That's the simplest way to do it. And these are the metabolites that are found from this breakdown of this molecule. And then, oh, he doesn't have the metabolite.

Okay, you're fine. Then they go into looking into other hormones that are affected and, again, enzymes. And you can start to see, the more further you get into, you can start seeing more changes that happen metabolically from those substances where it would be a red flag. You know, why is this guy's, you know,

why is his DHT 10,000, but his testosterone is a hundred, you know, stuff like that. That would be a red flag. And so that's how they're doing it. Mainly most of them. Cause it's so expensive to do.

You can't test for every, every substance or as you'd be bankrupt. Yeah. I think you mentioned earlier that you haven't done a cycle in a long time. Why is that? After my accident, I had to – it was funny. Did you have a car accident or something? No.

I wish it was like something sounded like harder than it was. I was going down the stairs, It sounded harder than it was. I was going down the stairs, and my dickies went under my Converse, and I had the marble stairs. I had the marble floor. And there were 17 of them, and I took a step, and I heard a snap. And I just remember going, looking at that floor down there.

As I was falling down, I put my other leg out and then woke up in the hospital. But it took me a long time to get over the fact that I was never going to be able to compete again. And, you know, because that was my life and that was how I was making money too. And so it's like I had to get over that. I had to literally say, okay, you're never going to be this again. And you have to stop. And I'd just gotten over it too. And that's when I met Tony.

And it was like I was all the way done with this sport, completely done. I was okay with it. And then I meet this guy and that's when i met tony it was like i was all the way done with this sport completely done i was okay with it and then i meet this guy and that's all he's about and i'm like fuck man i just got out of this so and part of coming being okay with it was just getting off steroids and you know what's the point of taking steroids if i'm not going to be this again and it was still hard to do and so i still did my trt but that was the other issue there's sometimes i wouldn't do my shot for like two months and then i wouldn't realize that bit wait why are you fucking crazy right now like what why is everything bothering me and i'm like oh i haven't done my shot in two freaking months so staying on top of that was another issue um so you know i'd say i was on trt probably a quarter of that time because i was missing all my shots too but yeah just to be okay with it and coming

off it permanently that's a big step congratulations that's not easy we don't hear a lot of people say that they you know moved on from something so it's a you know it's almost like a recovered it really is man it is and then you're traveling around the world and you're always on camera everyone's got to look their best and it it really kind of shied me away from it too i was like man is this what i was like like i really don't give a shit what people think i look like i really don't and you know and everyone's worried about like oh i gotta get you know camera angle and they're looking like this on the camera and tony's not like that i got my gut hanging out and i'm on video and they're like dude suck your gut in i'm like no we just ate, dude.

Like, I really don't care. It doesn't bother me. Yeah. But to see it from the outside view now, now I'm like, God, I'm glad I don't. I'm like, I'm glad I'm not that. So it was kind of, you know, being able to look at it in that way. It's kind of helped it a lot. Were you able to find that picture of you and I outside of I Love Teriyaki 13 years ago?

You know, what's funny man is um i know it's there and so i went to the the house it was uh um my friend's house who's got the pictures and i actually got when i was telling you about that she had the pictures like i have cases i have to go through and like from my childhood like i actually just got these um two days ago and i had to stop looking through them so that's why i didn't bring them i have a couple of them i still got to go through them but uh pictures from my childhood up until now so but i do have that picture i just got to go through them check because it's like it's like a physical picture it's a actual yeah oh it's not

even like it's from so long ago. There's no cell phones back then. No, no, no. It was an actual one, man. It was outside. I love teriyaki. I'll never forget. My friend Taylor Fike was there too. And yeah.

Why were you waiting for me outside? Because you were eating. I was going to bother you. I just got done eating. I knew what that's like. I was coaching people at Pioneer High School at the time. And I think you were probably what? maybe like a junior or something, right? Sophomore.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Sophomore. That's a long-ass time ago. Yeah, sophomore or junior. Did you end up playing football? I don't remember. Yeah.

Okay, I can't keep track of everybody. Yeah, no. Now that I'm thinking back i'm like damn it is a long time i just remember seeing you guys at fitness what was it fitness systems yeah well before when it was all body construction zone yeah yeah the original stomping grounds super training i remember walking in there and i just heard walking in a room i'm hearing screaming and it's haas on there and he's got like something and he's just fuck you throws it and okay i'm signing up you're like this this is a perfect place for me exactly i quit my place at uh what is that one on whatever there's another gym i quit right there fair oaks

or something and then went straight there i was like that's my gym did a bigger stronger faster have an impact on you ending up uh kind of going down this path no i was already so when you guys probably already go yeah already going down that path yeah yeah and i remember because in high school it wasn't until the very end like graduation when i started taking anything but i never even took like the trend and mass pills that they were selling around that time and everyone at my school has taken those and i was like those are those are like at gnc right yeah and that's what we're just talking about and i was like dude i don't have money for those i was laughing about it like what the fuck was in those things people were blowing up was it actual trend

no no they just use that because that's everyone talks about trend right so great and amazing because of the side effects and you do get side effects on them. They were just the same, like these pro drugs, man. For example, GHB, there's a pro drug for GHB and it hits you 10 times harder and because it turns into, it's metabolized into the actual drug. So these pro drugs, they're more effective because they can pass absorption issues that you're having with the active hormone.

But your body, when you take this analog, it'll put it together so you're getting more of the actual hormone itself and And they're way stronger than the actual steroid nine times out of 10. And these high schoolers now I see them, they all have gyno today and they're all, you know, it's just sad because they didn't know it was a steroid. You know, they bought it over the counter. Dang. Yeah. Good old days. Yeah. Andrew, want to take us on out of here? I always say dude you guys had it way better back in the golden era when you just go to the GNC and pick up

some pro hormones oh my gosh anyways thank you everybody for checking out today's episode if you guys liked it please hit that like button subscribe if you're not subscribed already ring the bell notification so you can be notified when we go live or upload uh episodes like this one follow the podcast at mark bells power project on instagram at mb power project on tiktok and twitter my instagram and twitter

is at i am andrew z at the andrew z on tiktok and sima where you at and sima yin yang on instagram and youtube and sima yin yang on tikt Twitter. Trevor? I'm actually Official Coach Trevor, but it's spelled Ofico. So remember that, Official Coach Trevor Instagram, but Ofico. So it's not I-A-L, it's C-A-L. Was that just a typo? The person doing it, yes. But I changed the name in order to do this, but in order to do it, yeah, we had to take one of the initials out.

Got it. Got to fight and get my name back. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later.