Mark Bell's Power Project - MBPP EP. 610 - The Alien Molecule Ibogaine ft. Jim Tamagini & Chris Bell

Episode Date: October 19, 2021

Jim Tamagini started his bodybuilding career at a young age and competed in over 15 various shows. He trained in Boston with Mike Matarazzo and Paul Demayo. After getting hit by a drunk driver and while in recovery, getting rear ended by someone driving over 100mph, he became addicted to opioids and would later be arrested for possessing and distributing them. After losing everything, he discovered ibogaine and was able to turn his life around and is now a highly sought after consultant. Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Vuori Performance Apparel: Visit https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order! ➢Magic Spoon Cereal: Visit https://www.magicspoon.com/powerproject to automatically save $5 off a variety pack! ➢8 Sleep: Visit https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro! ➢Marek Health: https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT15 for 15% off ALL LABS! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Subscribe to the Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz

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Just take your time with your words over there, so that way we don't need an interpreter. Okay. With whatever this fucking accent is over here. No, I'll go slow. I can sign it, too i need i'm just being a dick face hey thanks for coming on the show today i think this is a really important topic you're hearing more and more people uh talking about psychedelics and uh how they could potentially be used to overcome all kinds of things, addictions, depression, anxiety, just a whole host of things. And people are discovering more and more all the time that it's seeming to work really well, but there's some resistance from just our culture in general has kind of pushed these things down for a long time

and kind of withheld information for many years. I was just listening to something this morning where they were talking about LSD having like a 50 percent recovery rate in the 1950s for people getting off alcohol. I'm like, damn, 50 percent. Like, you know, I don't know where the stat comes from or whatever, but I was like, if that's true, that's pretty damn good. In your opinion, why has there been so much resistance towards people being more open-minded towards what psychedelics can actually do? I think there's a lot of lack of education

is where it comes from in many senses. But the huge resistance is with the knowledge that there is a substance that God gave us that can cure addiction, or I like to call it an addiction interrupter, can give you a second chance. I'm a big believer in second chances. And there is a substance that we have in

our possession that we could make more widespread. And the knowledge that people are making billions, trillions, who knows how much money on substances that require you to take them repeatedly for the rest of your life to maintain a state of not sobriety, but of well-being so you don't get sick, you're not withdrawing. They have that power to keep people enslaved. I mean, the word addiction, I've been told recently, and I had heard this before, is enslavement. And think about that for a second. You're enslaved by a drug. That's just a horrible, horrible thing. And if there's something that can give you the power to

have that second chance, and still it's hard work. It's not a magic bullet. It gives you that second chance at a fresh start in having a good life. And there's a huge resistance to that because of money. It always comes back to money, it seems to me. And I just think that it's a terrible thing that people's greed gets in the way. And they'll put out false information, propaganda, whatever you want to call it, false information, propaganda, whatever you want to call it, to prohibit the development and the different FDA approvals and things that would need to be done to get it to more people.

And it's just blocked. And then there's anything that's psychedelic has always had this mystique to it and a negative connotation. So that's what I see out there. My bad, my bad. Of course. I'm joking. Well, before we get too deep into it, what exactly does Ibogaine do?

Like what exactly is it supposed to be able to help people with? And then also so people can understand too what are things that individuals need to be somewhat careful of because you know i've heard chris tell me some things that it does and with a lot of things some things just sound too good right so with everything there has to be a give and a take can you explain some of that to us? Sure. And I like to do things by example, if you don't mind some, one of, um, one patient came and said that, um, wow, it seems too good to be true. And I hear that echo in your question and I cut them off and I said, it's not too good to be true. I'm telling you right now, it is your chance to do some work because you're unable to do it alone.

So what it does is it will, it's the only substance on earth that we're aware of that will help heal the receptors in the brain and increase your neuroplasticity so that you have a second chance at learning more, at getting any type of addictive behavior. It could be gambling. Stay a little closer to the mic there. It could be gambling. It could be anything that's habitual that isn't interfering with your life. So if you like playing video games, but that doesn't really cause any havoc in your life,

it doesn't interfere with going to work or sleeping, you're not up all night, you're not spending all the family's money, then it's really not a problem. But if it is doing all those things, then it is a problem, and Ibogaine will rewire you so that when you come out of the experience, which is a lot like a trip, is the best way to describe it, when you come out of the experience, that you will wonder why you ever had that problem to begin with, and you'll realize that it's a problem. And it's, you know, unlike ayahuasca or DMT, that is an outward journey, I would describe Ibogaine as an inward journey. So people understand it's a root bark from a tree in Africa.

It only grows in Gabon, Africa. It's because of the climate. It's very hard to germinate to get the plant to grow. And it requires to be fertilized by the elephants that live there, the ones with the huge tusks that are poached. So that's why it's so rare because those elephants are poached oftentimes and their tusks taken for the ivory. So that particular plant, they get the root bark from that and shave that down. And the Bwiti tribe down there, that's their central part of their religion. They don't use it for addiction. They use it for spirituality.

I talked to a shaman there like two or three times a week. Bita is his name. And he describes it to me. We do this for church every single week. They've been doing it for thousands of years. And they have services where even the youngest of children consume this in small amounts, obviously. And they don't do it for addiction. They do it because it brings it closer to their ancestors.

He says it keeps our minds right. That's right here, him echo in his words. It keeps our minds right so that people who have tendencies towards criminality won't, to be more peaceful within the community. Like, that's the reasons that they do it. So I'm sorry I've gone off on a tangent a little bit, but redirect me at any time. Well, I did hear that one negative side effect is it may do something to your heart, but I don't know where this comes from. There's something I heard in researching it a bit. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that they'll say that at Acceleration. I've never personally witnessed anybody have any problems from it, but I encourage anybody. First of all, I'm a consultant. I don't procure Ibogaine for

anyone. If anyone wants to get Ibogaine and they're going to do it on their own, I've happened to be fortunate to have been with so many people, guided them through the experience, that I have that level of experience and confidence on how to do it safely, as safe as possible. And it's always been said in the literature that I've read that it can accelerate your heart rate. And if you have a preexisting condition, there could be some danger there. So I wouldn't recommend anybody be treated unless they had a full physical.

And I always, now they have the portable EKG machines, which I always keep with me. I encourage people to have those anyway, and blood pressure cuffs, and to make sure that their heart is working properly and not accelerated for any reason that has to do with any medical problem. And I encourage everybody. I like to see their medical records. So there is that out there. But somebody that's addicted is probably fairly open to having some sort of risk, right?

Well, yeah. I mean, it's funny to me that some people come to me and they're smoking meth every day. And then they're asking me if this is going to be dangerous for their heart. Is this safe? Yeah. I'm like, huh? Some people are shooting meth. They're shooting heroin.

They're shooting cocaine. And they're asking me if this is going to be okay for their heart. So, you know, people are strange. But, no, it's definitely funny. But I've never personally witnessed or seen any type of, especially with regard to the heart. You know, you may have some nausea. You know, when you talk about the gives and the takes, it's a harrowing experience. It's a do I begin.

It's not a walk in the park. You know, that's why I cut my one of that client off that time and said, it's not too good to be true. Because what you're going to experience is a situation where I give you a test dose. And that's to make sure that you don't have any allergic reaction. And I've never had anybody have an allergic reaction like hives or breaking out with a rash or anything like that. And then I'll start, recommend that they take a certain amount of milligrams, depending on a lot of factors, their weight, the amount of substance they're taking. If there's a substance at all, lots of people want to do the experience because of some trauma that they had in their childhood. I had

an individual that was molested by his baseball coach that had tremendous success. He was having nightmares every night and this stopped that. So there's people that have all types of different reasons that have heard or read about it and want to go through the experience. And I tell them it's just not an easy experience. It's very uncomfortable after that second or third dose. And that usually goes like on the hour. And this is just the way that I've over the years talking to the shaman, talking to as many people as I could, reading as much as I could. But most importantly, everybody's different. So it's the hundreds of people that I've had in front of me and can watch them. And the way that they look in the way they answer my questions I can tell

if they need more to get to the place that they need to be to overcome and it becomes like a gift I believe I was called to this and through all these crazy things in my life that happened it led me you know to this you know I thought I was helping people when I was an attorney for 28 years. And that the best thing I did, my best day as an attorney didn't help anyone as much as my worst day treating people with Ibogaine. So I'm guessing that an individual has to come in with intention because one of the big things that I was curious about, you know, from what I've been hearing, it's how can, you know, scrub receptors, how individuals change habits is that, well, they need to come in with something specific that they're trying to change or does it have an effect on all types of patterns an individual has?

I had an individual, um, David come and I picked him up at the airport. He, um, his legs were going on the floor of the car. And I'm like, you okay? I'm not going to make it, man. I'm not going to make it, man. What's the matter? He goes, I haven't done heroin or cocaine in three days. I'm not going to make it.

I'm like, all right, take a deep breath. You're going to make it. And when we get to where we're going, I'm going to say, I'm going to tell you, advise you on what to do. And once he had consumed the test dose, then those symptoms subsided. And his reason for coming was, as I said, the cocaine and the heroin. That's all he wanted to do. And it was a situation where he had gotten in an accident. I share the same story over and over again. People get in some type of problem where they get prescribed a drug, and then as time goes on, they have to switch to heroin because it's cheaper,

and then because it's hard to function on heroin for long periods of time without nodding off or, you know, the opiate suppresses your central nervous system so that you end up using the stimulant, cocaine or methamphetamine, to try and equal it off a la John Belushi's speedball and try and function that way. So I did the treatment with him. I advised him what to do. He had the experience.

And I like to stay with people as long as necessary, but at least until they're eating regular food again and they're up walking around. And a few days, I'd say two and a half days after his experience with the drug was over, he says to me, I haven't smoked in three days, almost three days. I smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, and I forgot about it. I hadn't even thought about it, you know, and I said, I had no idea. And you never mentioned anything about smoking. You never told me that you were a smoker before.

So that was completely incidental to the treatment that he came for. And it was just a habit that he would have loved to break, but he didn't even think he had enough problems. Cigarettes weren't on the top of his list. Yeah, I find it. That's really interesting, like how the people use the different drugs, you know, in accordance to like, I guess, kind of how they're, how they're feeling. What, can you explain what the experience actually feels like when you go,

when you take Ibogaine? Like what kind of happened? What was your first experience with it? That's the easiest thing for me to explain because I can articulate what happened to me more than anything. And, like, I had – it might be helpful if I tell you why I even took it and then go into the experience. circuit and then going to the experience of the um it's you know i had never experimented with many drugs like marijuana in high school um you know all through even college i was bodybuilding you know i went to school at st michael's in winoski vermont and i went into mr vermont a number of times um i used to compete with arnie list who's from up there. He was a good friend.

And I just, because of the bodybuilding, as you know, you stay away from the drink and the drugs. So I pretty much went through my whole college experience without consuming, experimenting with drugs. And then I was into law school. I went to Boston College Law School. And it was the same thing. I wasn't competing then, but you pretty much stayed away from drugs.

Then I got into the—I was hired by the district attorney's office in Middlesex County. And so, you know, now I'm getting up into my 30s, and I haven't really done any drugs at all. I leave the district attorney's office, and I get a job with a law firm in downtown Boston and I'm on my way to work at 8 30 in the morning and a car blew a stop sign and broadsided my truck and one thing I never forget to do is wear my seat belt but I didn't have it on that day and I got ejected from my truck into oncoming traffic. And I was like in a catcher's stance coming up when I kind of came to, and the car struck me straight on.

And that's the last thing I remember. I lost my spleen. My left patella tendon was torn. It had to be repaired. I broke my right ankle. I had some head injuries. I broke my right ankle. I had some head injuries. I broke my nose. And when I was in the hospital, I can remember them having the morphine drip. And they told me to hit the button as needed. I think every six or eight minutes, I can't recall exactly how

long. And I can remember hitting the button and I was getting nauseous. It wasn't something that agreed with me at all. After three days, I was pressing that motherfucker like there was no tomorrow. You know, they turned me into something that I had not been. Then in my treatment, they gave me 80 and 40 milligram OxyContin. I didn't even know what it was in 1999. And by the time I had heard the term hillbilly heroin, and it was all in the news, it was too late. I was off to the races with it. And I had a million prescription bottles. A kid was at my house one time, and he was in the bathroom. And he came out and he said,

what are all these OxyContin doing here? And I'm like, they gave me those for my accident, but I don't even take them because i don't feel him he goes that's because they have this time release coating on them and he shows me you can wash it off under the sink he washes off uh the green coating on an 80 and he crushes it up and makes a line out of it and he snorts it i'm like are you are you out of your mind i i put something up your nose like that he's like he like, he goes, well, you know, at that point in time, my wife had passed away. And he's like, you need this right now.

And, you know, it's the last thing I needed. But I did it. And then I started a love affair that lasted, you know, a decade with the OxyContin. And after that accident, my wife, Michelle, had nursed me back to health, literally. And we had two kids, and my son, Anthony, was 17 months old. And Michelle had been having headaches, like really bad, really bad headaches. And she had an appointment on that Monday. And Sunday morning, the phone rang, and it was my daughter, Kiara, wishing me a happy Father's Day.

And the phone woke Anthony up, and I took him downstairs, and I said, let Mommy sleep. So we went downstairs, and I made him breakfast, and I thought it was odd she was still sleeping, because I knew people were going to come over to the house. We just had, we bought a new house. And we went back upstairs to wake her up. When I moved the sheets, there was blood coming out of her nose, out of her ear. I'm sorry. I haven't talked to her in a long time.

She, I rushed her. I, you know, called 911. I had her sister come over to take Anthony so we wouldn't have to see. I rushed to the hospital, and they shaved her head, and they operated. Because she had a brain bleed, a cerebral aneurysm. And I find out from people more and more that people have suffered this. I didn't even know it existed beforehand. And so we lost her that day. And I had already started after the car accident I had previously. I had opened my own law

practice rather than try to go back and get another job because the firm I had been with had to let me go because I was out for so long. So I started my own law practice, and things went on, time went on. Eventually, you'll get on the drugs, off the drugs. Finally, I got off the drugs after numerous rehabs and everything. Then in 2016, I got rear-ended by a drunk driver. She was going 110 in her father's work van, and I was going 65. And I snapped my neck so bad that when I got to the hospital, I had to do a full-level decompression infusion.

I know I sent a picture over. And so that's what's in my neck right now. And then what did they do? Stop prescribing me the drugs again. So that's a long-winded way to tell you that I had first heard about Ibogaine when that happened. My sister, Tricia, she says, have you ever heard of Ibogaine? And I'm like, no, never. What?

She goes, I was watching an episode of Special Victims Unit. And there was a heroin addict that they needed as an essential witness, and Dr. Lee took him over to Mexico and had this treatment with Ibogaine and brought him back in less than a week, and he had been, you know, cured. And I guess that's what they showed in the episode. So as soon as I heard the name, I was voracious in my researching this. And so that's how it was that I came to seek the treatment. And then when you took it, what does it do? What does it feel like?

Okay, so I was fortunate enough to see an episode with Dave Palumbo of RX Muscle where Guru Amin was on, and I contacted him, and he was a lifesaver for me. I went there, and I got the test dose. So I had fasted, as he told me. I was just drinking water. Everything that he said to do, you know, came off any drugs that I was on because Ibogaine is a great potentiator. Anything you take, and if you, I would say, if you were drinking coffee every day, that you drank, like, say, two cups of coffee, you couldn't drink a quarter of a cup of coffee that strength, you know, right after your treatment because it would make you sick. It's like giving coffee to a newborn baby because that's how it cleanses your receptors. So after that test dose, which I didn't feel that much from the test dose, which was 50

milligrams, he started to give me a regular dose of like 100 or 150. And just about every hour, he would ask me how I felt. Three or four pills in, I was like, I need to lay down. I started to feel heavy. First, you feel like tingly and warm, and it's somewhat pleasant. But then it gets unpleasant. And when it gets unpleasant, you want to lay down. And things start happening.

I know when I treated your brother Chris, some of the things that happened, he kept hearing a buzzing. He's, what's that sound? What's that sound? I'm like, everybody hears that. It's in your head. That's, you know, whatever's being mended up there, your receptors, it's in your headband. It's not. And then he's laughing.

I don't know what he's laughing about. He's telling me, you sound like Charlie Brown, man. And then he's like, when did you turn the TV on? He goes, shut the TV off. I go, well, the TV's not on. It's just black. And he's looking at it like it's going, shh, it's not, man. I go, trust me.

And so that's what happens. Like funny things start to happen. And then, you know, approximately every hour you get like a, you know, on your shoulder. And how are you feeling? And you say how you're feeling. How's the wave? Like the wave could be, you know, a 1 to a 10. What wave are you riding right now okay i'm

riding like a six okay here's another one and then another hour goes by and it just you know you're not sleeping but but you're not doing anything i'll tell you that you're in a catatonic state where your mind is you're coming inward and you start to, I started to like see things from my past when like things that would happen with my family, things that my parents decided were important enough to reprimand us on or punish us about. And, you know, the first time that I ever shoplifted when I was a little kid, the peer pressure that was involved. The first time I grabbed my father's gun out of his top drawer and decided it was a good idea to run around the neighborhood and play with it. Things like that were like very vivid dreams.

And some of them were pleasant. Most of them were horrible but the whole time your body was um never in a restful state it was like you were fighting to to heal yourself it was like an internal struggle and that lasted for me it lasted two full days yeah were you so you mentioned that there's ibogaine being taken like on the hour. Yeah. Were you taking Ibogaine every hour? Pretty much every hour. You didn't sleep?

All that time, I didn't. It looked like I was sleeping. And when I treat people, it looks like they're sleeping. I laid down, and honestly, it was like a roller coaster. I'm not good. I learned because I didn't know. I'm not good with psychedelics because I didn't know. I'm not good with psychedelics. I didn't have any experience.

One time we went to Oz Fest and somebody had the great idea of making a tea. So we drank it in the limo. Bad idea. Wait, what kind of tea was it? Silver siphon. I'm sorry, I should have said. Somebody made a mushroom tea with the silver siphon, and I don't think they had any idea what the strength of it was

because whatever they had in the bag, they just threw in. Made a tea and mixed it with a Kool-Aid, and we're all sitting in the limo, and everybody's like, yeah. When I got there, I just remember hanging on. I had this fucking huge friend, and I was hanging on to his back. And I'm like, if I lose this dude, they're never going to find me. And they just walked around all the time, through the crowd, all day long. And every time I opened my eyes, everything was moving.

And I'm like, this is not for me. I don't get what people like about this. And that's what would happen with the Ibogaine. If I opened my eyes, everything was moving. So after, and I had really no good concept of time, but I'm told that it was like two days in a row. And then Amin would say, do you think you want it? Like at that point, I had only eaten some fruit.

So it takes, and this happens with every person, just so people are aware. You don't have any real appetite and you don't have a great desire to even drink water. But, you know, you need to be hydrated. So I have multivitamins and minerals that you take ahead of time and different things that can help calm your stomach down. Because you can imagine fasting and a root bark is in a capsule that's opening up in your stomach, you know, and your stomach's going, what the fuck is this? And it's just not pleasant.

So some people get, you know, and that's why I encourage people to fast so they don't have anything to actually purge. And not everybody listens, but they learn the hard way when it comes up. And it's not good if they went and got Ibogaine and they lose it. So it's just better for everybody. experience of the catatonic state isn't something that I would call or anybody I believe would call enjoyable in its totality. So if you watch YouTube and you see the ceremonies, you see the members of the Bwiti tribe, I mean, they're all painted up and they have their garb on, but most of the time they're just laying down. And I can tell you, I was laying on the bed, white-knuckled, hanging on like I'm on a roller coaster.

And that's when I opened my eyes. That's what it felt like. So when Amin said, do you feel like getting anything to eat? Like, I'd swing my legs off the bed in the hotel room where we were staying. I opened my eyes. And if everything was still moving, I'd swing them back. And I'd go, no, not yet. And just lay back down.

And I just rode it out. How many hours was that? I'm going to say that for me it was like three and a half days. But what did it feel like? It was three and a half days, but what did it feel like it was? It felt like, oh, it felt in time? Yeah. Oh, it felt that I had no concept of time.

Like I had to ask him, you you know what what time what day is it i i really did it feel longer or it felt longer longer it felt longer yeah i was lost in like a time warp and every son i can remember times when i wanted it to come back because i wanted to finish where i got interrupted like for whatever reason, like it's just a dream. Like if you wake up from a dream, you might not remember it. And some of the things I was waking up and saying, hey, give me a pen. I want to write down what just happened because I don't think I'll ever remember it. And then I couldn't read anything I wrote later anyway. So I wrote a bunch of stuff down and I wasn't able to really decipher

much of it. But it definitely felt longer than it was. And it just, since I don't like that feeling of having no control of myself, to me, it wasn't a pleasant experience. But other people have described it as a pleasant experience, that they liked it. And so everybody, that's the one thing that I know about this is it's completely individual. How much people need to take, and it's all dependent on what their issues are and their body composition,

how much of whatever substance they took. Like somebody that's coming for straight depression and somebody that's coming for an opiate addiction or a methamphetamine addiction or an alcohol addiction or any substance abuse addiction, they're going to need less. Generally speaking, they're going to need less. And I suggest, and that's all I'm doing is making suggestions based on what I've studied, but mostly based on what I've seen.

Because I was with, I mean, for 50 people before I ever ventured out on my own. And his forte is helping people as a diet coach. And in my opinion, from what I saw, because we were together for two years, that there's nobody that pays more attention to detail than him. And so that, so he's gone back into what he loves, but I couldn't stop doing this. And I've tried to expand it. And I used to live in St. Croix. And, but when we had the hurricane, we had two hurricanes in a year. So I rebuilt the house on St. Croix. And I'm going to try and have people come there to consult them on being treated. But people like me to go to them most of the time. Yeah, it's like COVID.

It's illegal here in the United States, right? Right. That's why I tell everybody, and they have a paper they have to read and sign, that I'm strictly there to consult you. If you were going to do it, I can't recommend that you do this because of the illegality of it. I mean, I'd stand up here being a liar if I told you I don't think it's a good thing because it helped me. You know, it's dramatic for me to say it saved my life, but it probably did.

You know, I was driving around, you know, doing OxyContin all the time. You know, that's not a good thing to do. So who knows if it saved my life or not. I feel it did, and I feel that I tried so many other things for so long, going to traditional rehabs, 12-step programs, and I have to say that I always help people in the aftercare. You have to have some type of aftercare because when this is over, you can't go to the neighborhood where everyone's smoking crack

and think you're not going to smoke crack. It's not going to happen. You know, sooner or later, it's going to come back. So you have to get that phone out and get rid of all your plugs. You want to have no way to get whatever it is you might want. If you're a gambler, I don't suggest you live in Las Vegas. Whatever it is, you need to get away from it and have a management protocol, good people to surround yourself with,

and whether that be a 12-step program that you get involved in or people at your church, a sponsor, whatever. You need something just to have that lock that you're going to be okay afterwards. And every time I treat somebody, it's like I have a new family member because, you know, everyone calls. I get cards and thank yous and things like that. And so that's the reason I keep doing it because I feel good about being able to help people like that.

And you wouldn't believe how many people say that I saved their life or I changed their life or things of that nature. But it's definitely not, in my opinion anyway, a pleasant experience to go to, which is a good thing because it's the last thing from an addictive substance. They want to schedule it as a drug, but it's maybe the only drug on a Schedule I drug that's not, you don't wake up and want to do it again. Believe me, you don't want to do this again when you're done doing it.

It's the last thing you want to do. Moreover, a lot of people show up and they'll bring their drug of choice with them. This is where I am most careful is because a lot of people have it in their mind. Okay, if this doesn't work, I want to make sure that I have my pain pills with me. So I'm going to hide them in the bathroom. And if it doesn't work, then at least I know I have a crutch there. So I have to explain how dangerous that is, what a potentiator Ibogaine is, and I have to go through their stuff. And it's no reflection on how I feel about them. I have to do it with everybody.

And then I take it and I just put it in the safe or wherever. And then when we're done, I give it back. That's how I was taught. That's what I do. I give it back and they're like, Joe, no, I don't want to see it. You know, I didn't want to see it. You know, after I did the same thing. And no, you have to throw it away as a self-empowerment.

You need to actually be the one to dispose of it and make that statement. And the other thing I suggest, I never do a treatment. I never help anybody in their place of their abode. I wouldn't go to their house because I believe that they should, and this comes from talking to them. And it's a great community like on facebook you know when people see this see the red pill reset on that get a lot of people from gabon actually talk say hey join our community and it's a good place to share ideas and learn um send me articles back and forth and things like

that and everybody agrees that you shouldn't do it in your house because that's where you reside. You should do it in a place where you're never going to go again. Just shed your skin and whatever bad you came to cure, to get beyond, just leave it where we are and walk out the door and never go back there. I think a lot of times people are utilizing drugs, some of the drugs you mentioned earlier like Oxycontin, I think alcohol and some of these things. I earlier, like Oxycontin, I think

alcohol and some of these things, I think they're an escape. And a lot of times it's a way to maybe just temporarily put your life on pause and kind of go somewhere else and potentially even be somebody else. You know, like I'm pretty quiet, pretty reserved, but, you know, I don't know like what would happen if I took cocaine or something. I imagine I would, you know, be probably turned into a slightly different person. Even just drinking alcohol makes me more social. I'm not super talkative like my bro over there. drugs that people are used to versus psychedelic drugs. Do you feel like the psychedelics are more of a look like inward and you have to actually like,

it sounds to me like you have to like face yourself, you have to face your demons rather than, rather than swerve past them, which I think is what's being done when you're drinking alcohol and doing other things. I think that's a great point to bring up because all, all those things where you're swerving past obstacles in your life or it's like you want to forget something or, you know, at the end of the week, you know, people say,

okay, it's time to break loose. They do coke. And I should mention that, you know, I run into a lot of people who drink, a lot of people who drink too much and would classify themselves as alcoholics, a lot of people who do cocaine, and whether you want to debate whether you can do too much cocaine or any cocaine is too much cocaine. When you do cocaine and alcohol together, one thing's for sure, that's a different drug. It becomes a different drug chemically, what it does to to you and a lot of people prefer that i find most people that do one end up doing the other at least with cocaine you know if you do cocaine you usually drink and i think that has to do with that effect of evening off but those are escapes

those are like hey the work week's over you know we want to do that because we want to forget that we have to go to work. We have to, you know, people go out so you can get out of the house if there's a bad environment there. They're all trying to escape something. But when you do psychedelics like psilocybin or DMT, which all have certain positive effects that I've noticed with regard to lifestyle changes. Ibogaine is just the only one that will halt addiction. And I never thought I would ever, before I researched and before I seen so many people experience it, think there was anything that I could definitively say. I can literally at this point say,

you're going to stop the drug that you're doing. You may not stop it forever. Some people need to do this again periodically, or if you're doing this for pain management, athletic performance, you may need to microdose or do something else to prolong the effect. Because imagine, if you're doing it for pain, and then you go to the same activity that caused the pain in the first place, chances are you're going to have pain again.

It's not a magic. You're not Superman now, and you're not going to have that pain anymore. You have to be careful. But it will give you that second chance to decide how you conduct yourself in that activity so that perhaps you can avoid further injury or further pain. But I think your point is outstanding that you make an event of doing mushrooms or the psychedelics becomes an event. It's like an all day thing. You can't go to the bar and have mushrooms for a couple of hours because once you take them, you're in for five, you know, and you're not sure what's going to, if it's going to be a

good experience or a bad experience. And if you don't have somebody with you that you enjoy, I mean, your environment is everything. That's, you know, really important because that, you know, pretty much takes you by the hand and takes you where you're going to go. I don't know a lot of people that like to do psychedelics by themselves, but I'm sure that some people do. But Ibogaine is just different from all of those because it's not anything that's pleasant enough that you would say like you would with mushrooms. Let's go party.

Let's go out and take a nature walk. It's a blast or let's go to the club with some mdma and dance our asses off like yeah i'm not saying any of that with ibogaine at all because when it gets to that point where you know you want to um you're too heavy to actually stay on your feet you're out stick a fork in you you're done you know lay down and you're just going to hang on for dear life because the eyeball takes you where it wants you to go. That's the most important thing is I see people fight it. One guy, Frank, I'm sure you're listening, he's, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,

two days of fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm almost sitting there in the bed next to him, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, because he was just fighting it fighting it he just didn't like the feeling of it you know what I mean and then he wants to do it again after he does it

he wants to do it again but he wanted to watch TV throughout the whole thing there's certain things you have to listen to me on you have to let it take you where it wants you to go you're going to go through the trouble and expense of doing on you have to let it take you where it wants you to go you're going to go through the trouble and expense of doing this you need to um uh you know we got to come wherever you're going to go get a schedule there's a lot of things involved you got to at least follow the rules

and let ibogaine take you where it wants you to go because you can't control it it's going to control you what about uh in comparison because we're just comparing it. It's going to control you. What about in comparison, because we're just comparing it to other recreational drugs, what about in comparison to antidepressants? And if you could just stay close to the microphone too, I know you keep moving it. But yeah, how about in comparison to that, how does it, I guess, handle depression?

Or how does it deal with it? Because I know you mentioned it earlier. Yeah, I have a lot of people have apparently there's more and more because I'm busy, like, like treating people and dealing with what I do. A lot of, you know, I spend trying a lot some time to stay on top of the subject and stay on top of new research that comes out. But more and more and more, there's things about depression because more and more people, you know, they'll preface their inquiry on the redpillreset.com with, I don't have an addiction problem. But one I've had recently, I adopted this child from a homeless woman. And then the paternal grandparents came and took the child from me

after I raised it for seven years. And now all these fantastic things are going on in this gentleman's life. He has a tremendous life, a life any of us would be envious to have, and he cannot find happiness. And I haven't treated him yet, And I'm praying that it helps him. But he's banking on this because it's amazing to me that he's not happy with all the things he has going for him. And he said, when they took that little girl from me, I can't find happiness. And so he believes it's going to happen.

He believes it's going to happen. And there are other instances where there's been like child abuse in the home and it stays with the person. And they have, I think, traumatic stress syndrome and depression that comes from that. And what I've observed, and that's a person that has no, these are people that have no substance abuse at all. And I see them come out the other side. all. And I see them come out the other side. And, you know, someone I treated recently is a 275 pound former bodybuilder who, again, another person who couldn't find happiness for a variety of reasons. When I left him, now, when you left, when I left my treatment, I stayed in bed for a week because it was such a draining experience. This guy, but I was on drugs, so now I'm off drugs. My body needs to get back.

He wasn't on any substance abuse. He called me up that same day from the gym. Then he called me later that evening from a party. Then he called me at 2 in the morning from a gym again, telling me that he's never felt this good and his depression has lifted and he doesn't want it to end. And I said, okay, then, you know, we can figure out a microdosing protocol. And if you feel like it's coming, you know, you're going the other way

just so that you feel more confident that it will last and things like that. So I've seen it. And that's the best way I can describe it because I didn't have depression issues per se. Any depression I had was from, you know, other things that had happened in my life. Seems like a rewiring of your brain almost. That's what people say, you know. And isn't it one of the only drugs too? And maybe, you know, the reason for this, I'm not sure, but isn't it one of the only

drugs that you can like come off of certain other drugs, cold Turkey, like I think heroin or something like that. This is just stuff that I heard just off, off of brief research on YouTube. So, yeah, I mean, you don't have to titrate. In other words, you don't have to like take your drug of choice, the opiate, whatever it be, and start to lessen it as you increase. And I don't think anyone knows why yet, right? No, I don't believe. There needs to be more research. And I know there's a company called MindCure. One of the reasons that there isn't more research, my understanding, whatever

that's worth, my understanding from what I've read and people I've talked to is one of the reasons that, you know, besides, you know, big pharma not, you know, taking kindly to, you know, this community, the fact that there's a shortage of Ibogaine. Nobody, I think, can procure Ibogaine. You know, I talk to these people, you know, online from Gabon and have a pretty good handle on what's going on, you know, with the procurement of it and the cultivation of it. But, you know, there's a lot of unscrupulous people in the world. And, you know, when you order something, especially online now, you don't know what you're getting. And so let's say you are getting Ibogaine. I don't think anybody knows. You go on Ibogaine and you have like, you know, Ibogaine whatever, Ibogaine Universe, you know, they're selling Ibogaine. And there's total alkaloid, which is the root box. So they're

digging up the root and they sit around and they chop it up into powder. And that has all the alkaloids. It's like coffee has more alkaloids than we know. But the only alkaloid that we care about for addiction is HCL. So that needs to go to a compounding, a chemist, and have the HCL withdrawn from it. and have the HCL withdrawn from it. So it's still, you wouldn't know how potent that is if it's not 10 years old, the tree. And who in the world has been watching this tree for 10 years to know that it's 10 years old? And so unless you have a place that's actually farming it, which it is being done now.

So because there's a shortage of ibogaine, my understanding is that's one of the reasons that there's less research being done because there isn't as much to get. And if you use so much in the testing process and the approval process of this, that's more people that aren't being treated because there's an infinite amount of it on the planet. And so that's why companies like MindCure are trying to synthesize it like they did growth hormone. And then we'll have an unlimited amount of it, and that wouldn't be an issue. That would take one issue off the table with trying to get it approved. And that also makes me wonder, too, like, I mean, something something like ibogaine it can't be necessarily

patented you know like psilocybin is becoming legal we're in oregon right now right yeah it's like you can do anything in oregon right now but yeah yeah it's uh in oakland yeah in oakland some stuff's getting fda approval for treatments and stuff i I think, right? Yeah, yeah. But with Ibogaine, if it does everything we're saying it can do, there is no, I guess there's no medical incentive because with a lot of, I guess, opiate, like say meth addiction, they'll put you on like methadone or other drugs and you can take these other things, but you might have to take for a long period of time or potentially the rest of your life. and you can take these other things, but you might have to take it for a long period of time or potentially the rest of your life. In this case, if you do this and potentially get some treatment afterwards, after care like you mentioned,

there's no money to be made afterwards if it's a successful treatment. A hundred percent, right. That's, you know, we've come full circle because that's the reason I would say at the very beginning when we started talking is there isn't an incentive monetarily because you have things like Suboxone. And I have people come to me for Suboxone and they ask my advice.

You know, what should I do in preparation to come? And, you know, one thing that I could say is that, well, maybe you should go. What did you use Suboxone for? Well, I got it prescribed to me because I was taking Oxycodone, which is a very short-acting opiate. Now they put me on Suboxone, which, you know, is, you know, even though Oxycontin and Oxycodone are made, obviously, in a laboratory, they're still very akin to the poppy plant, you know, the copy of that. That's the, you know, the opiate effect.

The suboxone is made to aggressively bind to the receptor site, and it's very hard to scrub off, as you were saying, that you heard that terminology before. So something that wouldn't be unprudent to advise someone is to go back to that short-acting drug. Go back on oxycodone. Go back to your doctor and say, I don't want to take the suboxone anymore. Go back on the short-acting one because the Ibogaine will work much better. It'll be an easier transition with a short-acting opiate, it only makes sense, than one that binds

so aggressively that the doctor's planning on you taking it the rest of your life. That's what they're planning on. Fuck, fuck, fuck, Frank. He was on sub suboxone okay and he he's had the fuck fuck come off it two two times with me yeah so and it's just brutal because it doesn't want to come off it wants to stay bound and so whoever made it you did a good job screwing people's lives up because it's very difficult and methadone is the other one we're going to take a little bit of a break here because i want to bring my brother on the show too because i think it's a mistake, and methadone is the other one. We're going to take a little bit of a break here because I want to bring my brother on the show too because I think it's a mistake to have him just sitting over there since you guys have worked together

and since he's another person that has a success story with Ibogaine. So we're going to take a short break, set up another microphone, and we'll be right back. Power Project family, you know how much we talk about sleep on this podcast. A lot. Because sleep is one of the biggest things that you need for muscle gain, fat loss, counting your cravings. You need good quality sleep. And that's why we are super pumped to be partnering with an amazing sponsor, 8Sleep. Now, 8Sleep is a mattress company that has something called the Pod Pro and the Pod Pro Cover. This is a cover that regulates the

temperature of the mattress. So you can actually sleep cool. And they've done a lot of research showing that people that sleep on the 8Sleep mattress. So you can actually sleep cool. And they've done a lot of research showing that people that sleep on the eight sleep mattresses actually fall asleep 32% faster. But the great thing too, people, we over here at the Power Project are hot sleepers. And what I mean is that we sweat. We have many times in our old mattresses woken up in a puddle of our own liquids being sweat. And let me tell you, that has not once happened in this eight sleep mattress because it keeps you cool while you sleep, which helps you get better restful quality sleep. Andrew,

tell them more about it. Absolutely. Yeah. So, and then another thing also is if you sleep with a partner and they maybe don't run as hot as you, you actually have dual temperature zones. So I can set mine extremely cold. My wife can set hers not as cold, but still cool. And that really is like that in and of itself is like, it's so helpful. And especially again, like I said, when you sleep with a partner, they're happy, you're happy. You both wake up extremely happy. Everyone's happy. You got to head over to eight sleep.com slash power project. That's eight spelled out. So E I G H T sleep.com slash power project. And you guys will receive $150 off your pod pro mattresses. Again,

eight sleep.com slash power project links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes head over there right now. All right. We're, uh, we're done with our little break. We don't usually have breaks, but I felt pretty good.

I felt good to see him. I think it might be something we should implement. That was nice. Protein shakes. That, massage was unbelievable. Thank you should implement. That was nice. We got protein shakes. That massage was unbelievable. Thank you, Andrew. You're welcome. My butt didn't really need that, but maybe it did.

It was the massage your butt didn't ask for but needed. Unbelievable. That sounds good in the mic. Thanks. Oh, man. You're welcome. All right. We were talking about some of the magicness of hybogaine.

And I think sometimes science is behind. Sometimes science is behind what people are doing or what people are trying to do. And it sounds like to me that you kind of stumbled upon this years ago. And then you had a mentor a guru and then you started to uh implement it with a lot of people you fell in love with the process of being able to assist people because you yourself were suffering and uh then i don't know how it happened but you and uh chris somehow met and i think you've treated my brother as well, right? I have. I got a call from Guru Amin one day, and I had only been tentatively familiar with Chris's work,

and I had seen Bigger, Stronger, Faster, and I went back and watched it again. And the interesting thing was it was right at the beginning of COVID. COVID wasn't a household name as it is now. And it was, so it was in March, two years ago. And Amin said, you better not go because I don't want you to get sick. And I'm like, if I don't go now, because he couldn't go because he was having issues in his family.

And if I don't go now, it'll'll never get done so let me just suck it up and go so i just jumped on a plane and flew to sacramento and met chris and uh i think that um everything worked out really well i wouldn't be here now yeah it was kind of unbelievable is that um i called amin and talked to him and it means like yeah i'll do it for free because i want i want i know that you'll document this experience, so I'll treat you, and then Amin couldn't come, and he paid on his own dime for no reason almost, which is like, to me, just a testament to who he is, and he said, no, I told this guy I'm going to help him, I'm going to go help him, and so he paid for the hotel,

he paid for his own flight, he paid for the hotel. He paid for his own flight. He paid for everything to come out here just to treat me because somebody else told him this would be good for me. Like this will help my career. And that's the guy that helped him. So I think that that bond right there with, with everything and like the trust issue, like, you know, I wasn't shelling out any money to do this. And I was at a point where I was just so lost with pain. out any money to do this. And I was at a point where I was just so lost with pain. My pain was at, you know, really high levels every single day. I had blown out my knee on a heavy deadlift and that was bothering me for six months where I could barely walk, could barely make it around the block when you guys, we would come here at four in the morning to work out and we'd be walking around

the block and Mark and the other guys we'd work out with would be 150, 200 yards ahead of me. And when nobody knows I was crying, you know, not, and not cause I was in pain, but cause I couldn't do what everybody else want, you know, was doing, and it would drive me crazy. And so like, you know, in all honesty, I was the lowest point that i ever was and when i came out the other side of this it i don't even know why i'm getting emotional but i came out the other side of it i feel so much stronger on every level um i don't have the same amount of paint like so for three months afterwards i felt like i got shot out of a cannon every single day. Like, I felt like, man, I feel great. Let's go attack today. After a while, like Jim said, if you go back to what you're normally doing, like we went back to training really hard.

You go back to training really hard and you realize, like, well, this pain is going to kick in again. So what have I been doing now, as you've seen, is like, okay, going a a lot lighter not doing a lot of power lifting so i think you live and you learn on this stuff but i could not recommend it enough um and i don't recommend it for everybody i think that's uh something that people get a little crazy about like i recommend i'm not recommended for it i'm recommended for people that were where i was yeah people know who they are yeah they're people that are listening that are in that much pain they know they know anybody who cried while me or him were crying People know who they are. Yeah. There are people that are listening that are in that much pain. They know, they know anybody who cried while me or him were crying.

They know. Yeah. They know that there's people that are suffering. They have severe issues that they want to get over. It's makes sense to at least look into it. It's disgusting to me that we just allow all these people to die. Like 72,000 people die of drug overdoses every single year. And we're worried about this virus killing people.

Like we have, if you look on par in like San, in the city of San Francisco, more people died of opioids during the whole pandemic than of, of the actual pandemic. Right. Why? Well, because they're depressed and they're taking way more opiates and they're drinking way more. Alcohol was an essential business in this country. That's sickening, right? That alcohol was considered to be essential. Well, because we got people hooked on it and now we have to keep giving it to them, right? It's a sickness that we have.

We are the most addicted country in the world to everything. We represent 4% of the world's population. We consume 80% of the world's population. We consume 80% of the world's prescription drugs and nobody stands up and makes a stand and says anything about it. They worry about if we wear a mask and it drives me crazy every day because they don't understand that people are dying, dying, dying, dying left and right every single day from these things. I have a lot of other things. Yeah. One thing I want to touch upon, you mentioned earlier, if you can elaborate a little bit more, you kind of mentioned a couple times, this is no walk in the park, this is not easy. And I know for my brother, he's done it at least twice, and I know a couple other people have done Ibogaine more than once. And I think originally when I first heard

about Ibogaine, it sounded kind of almost like a one and done type thing. And I kind of, from my brief knowledge of it a year or two ago, it sounded like you could just take it and it just does the work for you. And then you're out. And then you're like, okay, I'm good. I'm not going to make some of those mistakes again. What's the truth of it? I think the truth is that we evolve in our knowledge because I thought the same. And because people, you know, how do you learn?

People teach you. And that's what I was taught. That's what I had been told, that it was a substance that was a one and done. And that exact phraseology was given to me. And so, and for me, it was the case. Like, I've never had a flood dose again. I've micro-dosed several times, but that was, you know, an aside more as an experiment or to make sure that the product that was available was legitimate.

But for me to get rid of my addiction, you know, and I think the reason for that was that I was 39 years of my life without any opiates at all. I can remember getting my wisdom teeth pulled and they gave me Percocets. I took one, got nauseous, threw them in the top drawer, never ever went back in the junk drawer and got them out. So it was easy for me once I got off the opiates with Ibogaine. So after the operation got me hooked on it, it was easy to get off because most of my life I was off the opiates with Ibogaine. So after the operation got me hooked on it, it was easy to get off because most of my life I was off. But if I had been doing opiates since I was 13 or something,

it might have been very hard to do Ibogaine and stayed off because my body was used to the drugs for all of those years. So I think the truth is that it's a very individual thing. And so for some people it can be a one and done, for all of those years. So I think the truth is that it's a very individual thing. And so for some people, it can be a one and done, and some people may have to do it more than once. And that more than once would depend on what substance you're taking. Somebody who's a box on a methadone,

it's much more likely you have to do it more than once. It depends on what the trauma was that you suffered. I mean, I had a person who was a Vietnam vet, and he had tremendous, tremendous, tremendous depression, but post-traumatic stress and visions. And he did once as a flood dose, but he microdoses all the time. You know, he likes to like cycle his micro doses and he feels that that is, um, at his age, he's an older gentleman. Um, he needs to do it like that for you personally.

And was there any additional like work that you had to do? Like, I don't know. Did you, uh, start going back to church or did you start hanging out with different friends or was there like kind of a list of a couple things that maybe you would adhere to, to maybe you started working out again or something like that? I definitely had slacked off in the working out. And like all my life, the gym is my church. And so, you know, honest to God, that's where I see God.

So I got back to working out, you know, a lot more because there was too many layoffs. Those accidents, they create layoffs. And a lot of times, you know, when you're in law school, you have to obviously take time off. When you have cases and you're in court every day, you don't have time to work out. So there gets to be too much time off. And then when you're hooked on drugs, then that's like a full-time job, you know, doing what you need to do to stay out of withdrawal. I don't think you mentioned this, but you were also very, very into bodybuilding. You competed over 20 times.

I think a lot of people that are watching this probably don't even know that. You've been a competitor your whole life. You trained with some of the best people in the world. So that must be so hard to get away from. Yeah. I mean, that's why I really, really loved bodybuilding. And I would have, I can remember being in college. In my.

You trained with what, Mike Matarazzo and Paul DeMayo? Not with them, trained them, right? Yeah. In the beginning when they were younger. Both those guys have crazy legs. That's Mike Matarazzo and his father. Okay, there you go. At the 91 USA's, there's Mike's legs. That's Mike Matarazzo and his father. Okay, there you go. At the 91 USA.

There's Mike's legs. That's my neck. Yeah, that's how it looks right now. Damn. Yeah. So, yep, that's a little stint we had. There's Mike. Old Jim.

Yep. That's sick. Yeah, so, I mean, both Mike and Paul, I was probably six or eight years older than each of them. And they were all from the area that I lived. And I was competing all the time. Paul was, my mother was the music teacher at Marlin High School. And I was helping with the football program. And Paul was a running back.

He was tremendous. He had never been to a real gym before. Paul DeMeo was a running back? Quadzilla? I'm trying to tackle Quadzilla. I'd be like... So I literally had to drag him to the gym. He'd drink gallons of milk instead of you see people with gallons of water. He's drinking gallons of whole milk. And he had no idea how to work out. The same with Mike. I met Mike at a boxing gym in Boston. And I told him, you have tremendous potential, too. I mean, he had the most enormous calves I had ever seen, and I didn't know his father had passed on such genetics until I actually met his father.

And so both of them I brought to the gym. I showed them how to train. I told them how to eat. And so I can't credit all their success into the pro ranks, but I started them out, and I was good friends with both of them. And it's such a sad thing to have them not with us. But I was fortunate because there's a lot of good pros that came out of my area. You know, Jay Cutler, he was a little bit younger than them.

But, yeah, no, I just loved it. If you told me when i was in college my roommate was um a ski instructor and he wanted to be a professional skier and i would sit there and say i wanted to be a professional bodybuilder and then when i met those guys i said i better go to law school um just like weeks preceding like your first ibogaine treatment was there ever like we're like oh man i need man, I need that drug, I need Oxycontin again, or was it just completely gone? Afterwards?

Yeah, after. Oh, after, yeah, after. Did it just disappear? It was like when I was done, I had brought some with me, had given it to Google, I mean, he put it wherever he put it, and I'd forgotten about it. He gave it back to me and told me I had to throw it away. And I said, I don't just get rid of it.

I don't even want to see it. Literally you're repulsed by it. This is how I am. And this is what I see in other people. They're repulsed by the drug, repulsed by the fact that it had such a hold on them and enslaved them. And that to me is the miracle of the drug. And that happens to the point where I'm confident to say that it will always happen

because I haven't had anybody that I gave it back to them and they said, oh, yeah, give me that, and then wanted to do it. And I haven't ever had that. It repulses you. And I think that, to me, that's the most powerful part of it. I always get nervous with depression and PTSD and things like that, just because it's my own human nature. Maybe when I do a thousand people, I won't be nervous. But when, you know, we were at this level, it's just

every single person is different. And I just try and deal with that person's issues and be, get in tune with them. Try and become one with them and ask them the relevant questions so that I can tell if I'm going to be able to give them advice on the amount to take and the length of time we need to spend and when it's time to eat again, when it's time to get up and walk again so that we can get beyond whatever problem they have. And a lot of the things that, um, the benefits,

they don't come until three weeks later. Sometimes it's not like right then. And that's because I think a lot of people that my friend Anthony, who, who's in California, and I know he would have loved to, um, to,

to share his story too, but he was on methadone for 30 years. And I know that he had a struggle after his treatment. It was week after week after week where he was dragging his ass around. Because think about it, you're on methadone,

like that becomes your inspiration. You know what I mean? Like if you're going to go to the store, I'm like, I got to take a methadone to go to the store. Well, it does give you energy. Suboxone and methadone, those things, they give you a lot of energy. Right.

And so that's, you know, becomes people's, I like to call it, like, green day smoke and my inspiration. It's like I need to do a line of Oxycontin to go and talk to somebody I don't want to talk to. And that's a terrible way to live. That's enslavement. And so I know he struggled for about six weeks. And then from that point on, it just kicked in. He saw the light and he wasn't one to work out. He calls me every day and tells me about his training, how he's doing.

He's 62 years old. And so that to me is a miracle right there. I think one of the things that we haven't brought up is that this does reset supposedly like, and I don't know the science behind it. Like I said, we're still learning everything. There's not a whole lot of research. But one thing Jim and I have been talking about a lot lately is the fact that this resets most of like these neurotransmitters in your body

for even supposedly things like testosterone. So like if you weren't responding well to testosterone and you, you know, I did, I believe out the androgen receptors or something. Supposedly. Yeah. And we're, we're working towards more of that, but that's where I, that's why I'm still involved in this. Like, I love it. I love finding out more about it. They call this the alien molecule because there is so little known about it. I love it. I love finding out more about it. They call this the alien molecule because there is so little known about it. They think it's from a different planet. They honestly are like, this is the weirdest thing we've ever seen. Nothing acts in the human body like this. So the fact that people can't explain it and they call it an alien molecule, in my

opinion, should be a reason to research it. But if it was effective in the use of hormone replacement therapy, that would be very, very interesting. So I've sent it off to a couple of doctors to try to see if they can find anything on it. What was your experience? Because yours is different because you did go to rehab and you had some success with that. But then.

Yeah. The second that I got done with Ibogaine, I was just laughing and tell Jim, I go, rehab is so stupid why would anybody not and i don't mean not necessarily but i just mean in general like this idea of like taking somebody who's a complete drug addict into saying you can't have any more and throwing them this thing with nothing to really help them um seems to me almost criminal in a way rather than saying like hey here's something that we found uh and the person can decide whether to do it or not, right? Do you think Ibogaine mimics, like, what you did?

I think it mimics a lot of what you did. It mimics what you're supposed to do, probably, via the... It's like trying to work. It's like a pre-workout, right? Like, it gets you ready for, you know, but it's like... But you can't have the work done by anybody else. You have to do it yourself, and that's probably why the psychedelics might be more effective to do it yourself but it may it gives you such a hand in doing it like when i went to rehab like you were asking him do you

still think about doing those drugs every day and you know he said no but when i went to rehab i thought about drinking every single day of the 90 days when When I got out and I'd go past a liquor store, it was like a trigger. When I walked down the aisles of the supermarket, it was a trigger. And now I can walk anywhere and walk right through the alcohol aisle. I can look at it, I can laugh at it.

I don't even think about it. I mean, I used to drink alcohol anywhere I went. So I was an alcohol fiend when I was an alcoholic. It was, it was all I thought about all day long. And, um, I watched the time, you know, what's really sad about alcoholism. And a lot of people don't know this. It's like one of the most lonely diseases in the world. And you just keep spending less and less time with people and more and more time with yourself. And you start drinking earlier and earlier and earlier. And when you wake up at six o'clock in the morning to walk across the street and get a drink, you know, like you definitely need to be conditioned out of that.

And that was something that I was doing. Right. So rehab for me was amazing. So I don't want to like really shit on rehab, but it was amazing because I personally felt like at that time, the only thing that could stop me was being locked up, but I didn amazing because I personally felt like at that time, the only thing that could stop me was being locked up, but I didn't know about Ibogaine. And if I had known about Ibogaine, one thing that we should definitely mention for safety reasons is that if you are an alcoholic or if you're on benzodiazepines like Xanax or Ativan or Klonopin or any of those kinds of drugs that you should detox from those first through a medical doctor or some sort of rehab system, right? There's medical detoxes. And then you would do Ibogaine because you don't want to

have anybody have seizures. But it supposedly works for alcoholism. I would chew all the time. And like he was saying with the cigarettes, I threw it out afterwards. And once in a while, I use nicotine patches now and then, but I don't use the tobacco that causes cancer. I use the ones that don't. So it just allows you to make better choices, and it makes those better choices really, really easy to come by. So then I'm curious. You ended up doing it twice, right? Yes. Okay, so what was the second time for so what jim talked about is like you you reach a level with it where you feel really good but

then if you go back to doing the same things you did like i did it was just dumb um i wanted to do it again because i got myself back into pain by training too hard. You know, I felt great. So I started coming in going full blast again and then just ended up getting hurt again. And then that ended up turning into more chronic pain. I was having trouble with my feet. But what I also didn't realize at the time, this is crucial. My testosterone levels are really, really low, like really low. And so and I didn't know that even until months and

months after I did the second eyeball gain trip. The interesting thing about the second one, um, it was more of an emotional experience than anything because our mother had just passed away literally the day before. So she passed away on the 24th, which is coming right up, uh, pretty soon. And then on the 20, uh, 25th, I think was when I was scheduled to go to Colorado and meet with these guys and do another journey. And so when I came out of that specific trip, I just remember the first thing in my head was your mother's not dead. Your mother's a legend.

She'll live on forever. And I just kept thinking that like you put your mother in a movie. She's's a legend. She'll live on forever. And I just kept thinking that. Like, you put your mother in a movie. She's in a movie. Nobody else's mom. I don't know a lot of people's moms in a movie. I don't know a lot of people that. So I just had such a perspective on it.

And I really feel it was from the eyeball game. You know, I didn't feel. When I was going to Colorado, like, we were flying to Colorado, I cried the entire flight. Cause my mom just died the day before. And I'm sitting on the plane crying all the way to Colorado. I get there. I see these guys. I cheer up a little bit. I take some eyeball gain next thing, you know, I'm like, okay, my mom's a legend. Let's go home. You know? And to me, that kind of stuff is invaluable. I'm not saying that's going to happen to anybody, but if you want to

erase some trauma, this is the extra sketch for your brain. This is what will do it. Yeah, to give you a different perspective. Do you kind of think when your experiences with Ibogaine, Chris, does it maybe play out a little bit like a movie? Since you're a filmmaker. Someone's like, hey, let's go back and let's check out what happened when you were eight. Let's go back and check out what happened when you were 12. It's exactly like a movie.

And if you saw my little movie I did, it's called eyeball gains with a Z on the end. Um, because I gained a lot from it, you know, and I put that on a, it's just a little video I did on YouTube, um,

about my experience. But what was the question again? Uh, just, just, does it play back like a movie? Oh, it plays back a movie.

Yeah. So in that, Jim was talking about running around with a gun when he was a little kid and stuff. Yeah. What was the question again? Does it play back like a movie? Oh, it plays back like a movie, yeah. Jim was talking about running around with a gun when he was a little kid and stuff. Yeah, in my specific movie, in the little movie I made, I have a little section where I say, Amin and Jim told me I was going to face my deepest fears. And I showed Andre the Giant facing off against Andre the Giant. I showed Darth Vader when he's going after Luke Skywalker in the Dagobah scene. I showed Rocky versus Drago. These are your darkest fears.

And so I thought about that going into it, all these crazy things. And when I got into it, I talked to Mad Dog, our brother. And he said, don't worry, man. I didn't belong down there with you guys. Like kind of, it might even be something that you said, like he never really fit in with, he never felt like he fit in with, you know, people. And he said, like, I'll be all right. I'm where I'm supposed to be.

And to me, that was like, so I don't know why it was such a freedom, but I feel like because I had gone through a lot of the same things that oh maybe i could have helped him but we know now that like you got to let that go like you you couldn't help him you know he was unhelpful at the time and so uh you know you think about it after you do it you're like oh if mad dog had eyeball gain would he be alive and it's like he already told me he's not supposed to be here, so I'm not even going to sweat that. I'm not even going to worry about that. But if I can save somebody else, let's give it a shot.

That makes sense. Yeah. In regards to the pain, Chris, you know, do you think the pain relief that you experienced, would you still have been able to maintain that if you didn't go full bore on the workouts, like literally the next day? I truly believe so. So the other thing that's really interesting is I've never had, I've heard of people having problems with addictions to Kratom, right? Usually it's because of taking a really, really large amount. Um, I had been taking Kratom every day, right up until I did my first ibogaine treatment. And then I went off of Kratom for over a year. Even when I got back in pain, I would use it once in a while.

But even until more recently, like more recently I started using it again because I've also realized like we have all these different tools. And if they're effective and they're not really affecting anything, might as well use them in certain dosages and things. So I really feel that if I didn't do anything, I might have maintained that feeling much, much longer. Have you guys seen anybody take Ibogaine for pain relief and then like microdose after what you call a flood dose to maintain that pain relief? I always give people the option of doing that and explain to them. Some people feel like they need it right away. A lot of people just have a mental, I don't know if it would be a mental block. I don't know if it would be a mental block. They feel like the gentleman who ended up going to the gym, going to a party, and going to the gym again.

I thought he was amazing because I just know how wiped out I was. And again, I know that I had been on opiates, and as Chris described, they give you energy. It's like at first they give you energy, and then after a while they suppress your central nervous system and you feel tired. This gentleman, he had pain issues from having lifted for so many years. I think, I want to say he had a contract with Metrex or one of the companies early on in his career. And he had a lot of pain injuries.

And he told me he was like deathly afraid that this good feeling was going to end. And so that's when I told him, okay, this is what I suggest with regard to boost is if it does feel like it's going to, if it doesn't, then why take something you don't need to take? But if actually you start to feel that way, then this is what your size human being, I think you should take and how often I think you should take it. So there is people that want to do that and I would encourage them to do it, but don't take it if you don't need it. Like really make sure that, that you need it because then it would become another crutch you know i don't the good thing is it's not something that you withdraw from it's not something that you have to take and that it's the flood dose

that people might have a distaste for the microdosing the idea of it is you take an amount that you don't feel or you just barely feel if that if it's more than that then it's not a microdose so then how does it so i know with like chris you have your your hips and then your um i think did you tear how many times you tear your rotator cuff a lot a lot yeah a bunch of times so like uh i'm just thinking so like for chronic pain though like this is like pain that i have in my back like i was doing the math and it's like going on 15 years that my back's been hurting well and so like how can taking something reverse that like i mean i feel like there's there's a lot of stuff built up back there there's like everything's in your brain just remember that okay okay it works on your brain

okay i'm cool with that uh but like x-rays and mris will show like arthritis and all kinds of shit going on back there and i I'm with you, Chris. I'm in full agreement there. But I'm just curious, like, is it literally just like a switch goes on your brain? It's like it shuts off that pain or does something else happen to where it can even, I don't know, make you believe that it's repairing itself and then it does. I know. How did you feel? I would have to say I don't actually know how it works, but I do know that it affects your brain. And then it does. A couple of things I can do. I can do all the knees over toes exercises, which I do. They help get a lot of blood in there and that blood flow is going to help heal.

But when you reconnect things in the brain, I believe this is a theory. I'm believing that it will like reset those nerves or do whatever to make them at sort of like what I keep hearing about Ibogaine. And I, again, I don't know if this is true. This is why we need more research on it. They say that it resets everything. It's a massive reset of your body, of all your neurotransmitters. So your pain receptors reset, your hormone receptors reset.

Like I said, I have not seen a valid study claiming that. But other people say that they're out there. I don't know enough about researching stuff medically to sort of dive in all that. But that's why we need more information. That's why we even want to maybe make a documentary where I just follow around Jim and document, you know, some of these crazy stories. Like the craziest story that I've heard so far is a friend of ours wife. She had a traumatic incident with her husband who was a cop and he had been shot and so like she had this traumatic incident where she had lost 15 years of her memory and she wanted to do

eyeball game but she didn't really tell me why until we got there and then when I got there she's like well this happened to me blah blah like whoa like I mean it's not gonna get I don't think it's gonna get your memory back right so then like i don't know we treated her we didn't hear anything for like three four months and like okay i guess maybe it didn't work maybe that was a bomb out you know so then i talked to our friend and he goes i need to thank you so much i i can't even i don't even know where to start and he told me that on christmas his wife waited a couple months and on christmas day she basically informed him like her her present to him was like you have me back now oh my gosh you know and she's he's like what are you talking about and she gave him like

a little gift and it was like a little brain he's like what's this and she's like that's my brain i got it back and and it's i'm all you now and And he was like, wait a second. You remember, like she forgot the birth of her children. And so through this experience, she was able to like relive. I don't, I have no idea what happened to her. But to me, that stuff like that is like, you got it. We got to look into this stuff. Yeah. That's why people ask me all the time.

Does it help with Alzheimer's? Does it help with, and these are the things that need to be studied. Not sure yet. Right. But something like that would indicate that it deals with memory and traumatic brain injuries. We got to look into it, right? Absolutely. That's why I want to fight for that.

I think the, you know, we're working with a guy, you know, who's fought professionally and like that's going to be interesting you know, to see like does it help with the brain injuries? Does it help with anything like that?, to see like does it help with the brain injuries? Does it help with anything like that? It would be great to see.

Does it help with concussions? That's why I feel like the best thing I can do is just keep helping people through that experience. Because everybody I help has 12 people that they tell, six people that call. And then, you know, out of that six people you treat three and then they tell 12 people and it just starts to be a spider web that spreads and sooner or later they can't ignore this.

That's crazy because I thought you guys were getting like one or two requests from people and he shows me like his email. There's like 175 new requests for people to do this. I like what you said in the beginning about it being like an interrupter and about it being a second chance because it's like, okay, let's just say there's some risk. There's some risk to doing everything, right? Let's just say there's some risk.

But imagine just even just having a shot at a second chance or even having a chance or a shot at having something interrupt, just briefly interrupt whatever the thing is that you're going through. Even if it doesn't work great and even if it doesn't work permanently, fuck, man, like at least it gave you, it gave you at least an opportunity at a second shot. It's just, it's amazing to me. Like, you know, when I was a kid, if, if, um, if you, you know, you grew some weed next to the garage or something hung up in the garage and you were lucky if you could get just as high from the newspaper, if you rolled that up today, you get kids in high school and younger, they're actually shooting intravenous drugs. They're shooting cocaine.

They're taking pills and melting them down and shooting them in their veins. If that's not more dangerous to do an Ibogaine, I don't know what is. So if there's a chance to interrupt that addiction and stop that kid from putting that needle in his vein, then I'm taking that risk. That's it. Yeah. Awesome. Andrew, want to take us on out of here, buddy?

Sure thing. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Sincerely appreciate it. Yeah, make sure take us on out of here, buddy? Sure thing. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Sincerely appreciate it. Yeah, make sure you guys leave us reviews if any of this affected you today or if anything sparked your interest. We'd really appreciate that. And also, please follow the podcast at Mark Bell's Power Project on Instagram, at MB Power Project on TikTok and Twitter. My Instagram and Twitter is at IamAndrewZ, at TheAndrewZ on TikTok. And Sima, where are you at? I'm at SimaYinYing on Instagram and YouTube. I'm at SimaYinYing on TikTok and Twitter is at IamAndrewZ, at TheAndrewZ on TikTok. And Seema, where are you at?

I'm Seema Inyeng on Instagram and YouTube. I'm Seema Inyeng on TikTok and Twitter. Chris and Jim. Jim, yep. And if anybody wants to talk about Ibogaine, it's TheRedPillReset.com. Yeah, and also on my Instagram, if you click the link in my bio, it'll bring you to the Ibogaine's movie. And I will put a link on there as well for the red pill reset so if people want to get in touch with jim and they can't find him it's the

red red pill reset.com but i'll put a link in my bio as well does uh anybody go through the treatment with their eyes open no and it gets too it gets too weird gets gets too weird and I don't advocate this and I don't do this but in a lot of the videos I've seen from Costa Rica from Mexico clinics down there they put eye shades on them and some people encourage people to listen to the

music which I don't advocate either I think you should just let Ibogaine take you where it wants to take you. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later.