Mark Bell's Power Project - MBPP EP. 673 - Knees Over Toes Guy & Kelly Starrett: Movement & Mobility Masterclass

Episode Date: February 7, 2022

Today we are joined by Knees Over Toes Guy, Ben Patrick and The Supple Leopard, Kelly Starrett. Ben is the CEO and founder of the ATG, Athletic Truth Group. Ben had struggled with knee and shin pain for years during his basketball career. After several surgeries, Ben dedicated himself to researching and discovering the best methods to recover from his injuries. Kelly Starrett is the OG of mobility and a Doctor of Physical Therapy, author, speaker and CrossFit trainer. His 2013 fitness book, Becoming a Supple Leopard, was featured on The New York Times bestselling sports books list. He is a co-founder, with his wife Juliet Starrett, of the fitness website The Ready State, formerly MobilityWOD. Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢Bubs Naturals: https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢Vertical Diet Meals: https://verticaldiet.com/ Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% off your first order! ➢Vuori Performance Apparel: Visit https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order! ➢8 Sleep: Visit https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro! ➢Marek Health: https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Subscribe to the Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Power Project family, how is it going today? Now, Stan Efferding, you know that name. We've had him on the podcast so many different times, but he has this company, Vertical Meals, who we have recently partnered with. Now, the amazing thing about Vertical Meals is this. They have meals for whatever the hell you're trying to do, to be perfectly honest. Chicken enchilada empanadas, chocolate muffin bowl with strawberries, chicken breast dinner large, a large chicken breast dinner. They also have breakfast scramble with sweet potatoes. They have your classic monster mash. They have ground beef with eggs. They also have meals that are just meat. I'm telling you,

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So go nuts with it. Again, it's at verticaldiet.com and at checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your entire order. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. First, I do, you know, the NFT, I could sell the first Supernova. We have the original Supernova 3D printed one. Then we could burn that. Which always works. I love that thing that's one of those

you know sometimes you have stuff that like stands the test of time it's like one of those it's one of those pieces that I have that I just look at and I'm like

I need to use that again just calls to me just sitting in the corner dude you had John Cena holding up yeah like a you know

like a Conan the Barbarian lunge thing yeah well it means a lot to a lot of people had John Cena hold it up. Like a Conan the Barbarian lunge thing. Well, it means a lot to a lot of people, including John Cena. When we went over the 100,000 supernovas mark, Rogue made me a gold one. Like spray painted it gold and put it on a case. That's amazing. I want to raffle that off. Really?

Or NFT it. We'll just NFT it. And then burn it. Anything where you can make money and then burn it that's cool isn't there an artist that did that like he had his what's his name he had his painting and then people crap but that was his name and then he shredded it right after somebody purchased it oh that was banksy banksy there we go there we go yeah like fell off the wall as people were like auctioning for or something too once it went off the auction that he just read it yeah something

it was like on a timer. I'm in the wrong business. I'm trying to get people like. Kelly, we're going to have to. So anything that's related to pop culture, we'll have to stop. We'll have to pause. We'll have to explain to Ben because Ben has not seen any form of entertainment in the last two years or so. Well, he's been working hard.

I think so, right? He has been. The hottest. The hottest. Stretching guy. Phenomenon in the phenomenon in the internet oh yeah he's growing fast got lucky it's pretty is that what it is it seemed like a lot of luck today like when he he didn't have like a vision of what he wanted to shoot and exactly what he wanted to do when he was here and he didn't write and plot out all these different videos that he wanted for youtube and one specifically shot this way for tiktok and some specifically shot that way

for instagram he's got no idea what he's doing he is just getting super lucky right yeah just show up no plan i just need to make sure people understand that was massive sarcasm and it's the opposite of everything that mark just said is what we had to do with beth so you know i wasn't very long ago like when we made our first video on the internet, there was no – I mean YouTube was a new feature. The iPhone didn't have a video camera. That's when we started. Ba-ding, ba-ding.

Remember the dial-up? Oh, gosh. Pretty much. And suddenly, in order to play now, you have to become very sophisticated. And you have to be on these different platforms. And you have to shape your dialogue for Twitter different than the write-up for youtube different than the write-up for insta it's crazy and you had to make that shift like over the last what maybe about two years like i think you and your wife were shooting a lot of stuff and you guys

were doing stuff whatever way you could and i'm gonna imagine that you still do some stuff that way but now it's like super professional it's always edited and cut a certain particular way right? The only thing that I learned early on was because we were so busy you may know this, you have a couple kids you're working really hard and I got really good at doing everything

in one take there was no time to edit so I was like okay, ready, go and so that's the only thing that we've kept from the old days is I'm just, I can make so much content still because I just do it in one take. All right, I got to explain some of this. So I don't know if Ben knows about the parking lot of dreams. P-O-D. R-I-P too, right?

The parking lot of dreams was Kelly Sturette's original gym that was near the Golden Gate Bridge. Yeah, it was unbelievable. And I had a friend, we had a mutual friend that was telling me about this gym and telling me I had to go see this guy and stuff. And I didn't really know much about Kelly. I watched a couple videos, and this happens a lot when you go to watch somebody, so don't take any offense to this. But when I first saw him, I was annoyed by him. I was like, this guy is kind of annoying. He's trying to make me do all these mobility drills and stuff like that.

And I was deep into my powerlifting stuff. Then after I saw a couple of videos that he made, I was like, well, that's really foolish of me. I should be embracing what this guy is doing because it could probably help. I could certainly be stronger than I am now. So maybe if I have more mobility, maybe I can get stronger. So I went up to check out- I love that those things are just like more mobility. Can I have another shovel full of mobility? I don't even know what that is, but maybe it'll make me stronger. If I can move better, right? So anyway, I went up to the parking lot of dreams and it was

literally just a parking lot i was thinking like i was going to go to this cool gym in san francisco um but no it was like there was a container outside that just held a bunch of barbells and weights and stuff like that with three containers and uh there was this sign which he must have spent a lot of money on. This sign just looked completely wrecked. Kinkos. It said whatever the name of the thing was at the time. And Kelly comes out.

He's all fired up. And he kind of shows me around, so to speak. Hey, there's that corner of the parking lot. And there's that corner of the parking lot. And there's the porta potty. Oh, that was a beautiful touch, by the way, the porta potty. The Taj Mahal of porta potties. It was amazing.

Lights, bamboo, mirrors. People were like, this is the nicest porta potty I've ever been in. And I'm like, well, if you're going to own it for 10 years, you might as well like it. And then you had your pain cave where you worked on people and helped people, right? So I was like, what is this, right? Then maybe like a half an hour goes by after he works on me and we were talking for a little bit.

And a bunch of people show up there. And then he has everybody circle up. He explains what they're doing for the day. He explains the intent of the day, how they're going to do it. And he's showing people how to squat. He's talking about keeping the feet straight even back then. And he's talking to people about how to squat. And he's talking about trying to screw your feet into the ground and how you're doing.

And I'm like, this is, first of all, amazing because no one ever explains how to lift when you go into a gym. You'd think that that would be prerequisite to any gym. Step one, would get out of the bar. Step two, big face. Yeah, step two, put your dick in the box, right? You figure somebody would explain what you think would be the very obvious things, but they just don't. Anyway, I was completely mesmerized, bamboozled by the whole thing. I loved the enthusiasm that you had, and it was really obvious that Kelly was a leader.

And when I saw that, I was just like, this is absolutely incredible. So I thought to myself, I was like, I got to bring some of my fat friends around here. Jesse Burdick and I visited his gym a couple of times. I visited his house with Donnie Thompson, who was also a lifter. Donnie was going for the world record at the time. Donnie Thompson was going for the all-time world record in the squad at the time. And Kelly, at the time, you were just kind of like, you're just finding your groove and kind of making things,

I guess, more convenient in terms of like how people can get into certain positions. And he started attaching bands and started doing things. And when I brought Donnie Thompson there, Donnie Thompson was showing him a little bit of the rap thing that he worked on today, some of the voodoo flossing and some of the stuff from Dick Hartzell, who is from Jump Stretch. And it was just really, really amazing to be there at that time and kind of see a lot of these ideas popping through his head. And just the you were working on your book at the time. It was just amazing to like have been there and seen kind of the groundwork for all these things that we just worked on in the gym. And all the stuff I did on you that didn't work, I'm sorry.

A lot of experimenting on my friends. There definitely was a couple things. But my whole point in bringing some of this up is that I was there for a lot of that, and now I'm here for a lot of this with what you're doing and what you have going on. And it's just been, I just, it's, I've been amazed. Like it's so much fun to watch the progression, the progress that you and your company and your family has made over the years and knowing you as a friend that has been insane. And then getting closer to you over the last, you know, two years or so, it's just been awesome. And I think there's a lot of great synergy. So that's why I thought it would be great to have you guys both on the show

today to kind of discuss some stuff and see what we have in common and see what maybe you guys have some stuff that is not in common. Basketball's dumb. It's too hard. You ever try it? It's the most dangerous sports for middle-aged men there is.

What you're doing is a public service for all the middle-aged guys who are like, I can go out there. Really. Oh, I can still hoop. Are you talking about me? That's what I was wondering. I'm not even talking about me. I have a bunch of teams that I work with, and every time we go,

I just watch the Timberwolves play, the Warriors, and I was just like, man, these are like giants battling and cutting. And I'm like, oh, you're, you know, we're so precious in the gym. And we're like, you got everything. Technique's got to be perfect. And you got to do this perfect rep set. And I'm like, go play basketball in the NBA for a game and let me know how perfect it was. You know, amazing.

That's an amazing point. And that's some of the stuff I've seen you do where you're doing stuff sometimes with like your knees in. Sometimes you're like getting into squat positions. What do you think of some of the stuff i've seen you do where you're doing stuff sometimes with like your knees in sometimes you're like getting into squat positions what do you think of some of that stuff have you seen any of the motions that he's done where he gets down in like a deep squat and he's like moving the ankles in and out and kind of almost like windshield wiper back and forth with the knees like do you think that is a smart thing to do do you think it's good to get into those overpressure motions, which I know you've pointed out before, but I kind of wonder.

I don't train those. I think they just kind of come naturally, and you wind up in those in your sport. If you watch how Michael Jordan moved laterally, both ankles were practically hitting the floor at times. That's very different. So, pan back and for a second ask, how much should I be doing in the gym?

This is a fundamental question. Should I be fetishizing and trying to train every range? Oh, I should practice rounding my back in the gym? Okay, at what loads? At what rep ranges? How do I periodize that? How do I work? Do I round my back with all the bars? Suddenly you suddenly, oh, then I should go the other way and overextend in all the positions.

So what we've come to realize is that we probably need to go do more play. Like if you really want to expose yourself to a lot of positions, go throw the Frisbee for an hour with your friends and just let me know what you learn about yourself, right? And so some of the things that Ben's talking about is having normal ankle range of motion, exposing that through actual sport. But with the knee stuff is that if the knee is closed all the way down, it's stable, it's rock solid. And then you're just moving your hip around, but you're also not doing that at speed and you're not doing that at load. And then suddenly you're like, oh, this is GMB fitness.

This is ground flow. This is play. This is exploration. This is animal flow. And you're like, oh, people have GMB fitness. This is ground flow. This is play. This is exploration. This is animal flow. And you're like, oh, people have been doing this. This is how we warm up for Russian martial arts. This is every fundamental movement pattern. In fact, I think the mistake that we've done

is we haven't gone and mined all our movement traditions as well as we could. So if you see something, understand that people have been obsessed with going faster, feeling better, you know, Hafthor walks the mast four steps, right? And that whole thing. So think about all the skills, all the tools, all the drugs, all the nutrition, and he gets one more step than some guy a thousand years ago. So for a thousand years, there have been people who have been really, really, really strong.

Now Hapthor comes in and walks the mast one more step. So that's, you know, I think we just want to say, hey, we understand a lot more about physiology and training and tools and tactics. And it's really confusing because there's so much we can do in the gym based on what you want to do. What do you want to do? Great. But are you ultimately measuring that against improved performance somewhere else?

And even your brother today was saying, maybe I don't need to deadlift 600. And I think the real question sometimes is, is your training making you feel better and perform better at the sports or the things you care about? That's the only reason we should be in the gym. Although it is fun to lift weights with friends. It is fun. Did I misrepresent anything there? i think it's killer i mean i think after all these years mark i think i look more for what are the basics and then really mastering the basics and i feel like when you really master the basics then you can be like when we were joking around playing basketball today and you can be in funky positions and feel great but it's from mastering the basics because it

takes i mean it takes time to get areas to make those changes you know but i do want to touch on because if we're starting from ground zero um first time i flossed i was watching a video from kelly and i knew after doing that one time like this, this is a breakthrough. And I've used it so many times when someone can't get into motion. So I want to get them into motion. I want to get them mastering these basics of using their joints, and they can't. And, I mean, we used the word miracle. The original word was voodoo. You know what I mean?

You could say whatever word you want at it. But when you've had joint problems for a very long time rich froning calls it lazarus floss really or when you're from the dead when someone you know has had a problem with an area for 20 years or something and they floss right one time and they feel better than they have in 20 years and then they're able to get into motions which can create long-term changes this is a fundamental that i would love to have kelly break down and i'm super grateful first thing we got here my wife says i'm gonna go ask kelly to floss my knee i'm like don't ask him that like he just no we're nerves that's okay she's like no we're already friends i'm like how did this because i know where the

real power resides in every relationship oh for sure i came in and didn't say hi to you. I came in and said hi to Andy. Hey, Andy. Of course. Yeah, I mean, she's the general manager. I don't know what's going on. I got no idea what's going on. I'm the thoroughbred out there.

She's the general manager. My official role in the company is just talent. That's what it says. Like, that is my, like, I don't even have a job. I'm just talent. You got to stay hot. Stay hot. Well, you know what?

I think you're bringing up something really important because i think people misunderstood why we mobilized right so there's something that you do i really like and something that you'll see i think in my language i don't do a lot of corrective exercise just not that interested in it i regress and progress that's the language that you speak right all the fundamentals can be made harder or more simple, but they're still the fundamentals. So we're going to squat today no matter what. But it may be a split squat. We may be squatting high.

We may be goblet squatting. You may be squatting six inches, but we're squatting today. We can regress and progress that in terms of how we want to change the stimulus, load different tissues differently, right? Mobilizations I consider as position transfer exercises. I do this thing so it allows me to access positions so that I can do the fundamentals. And I think I can, it's confusing because some of those mobilizations can help us feel better, get out of pain, desensitize something, change a tissue. But ultimately it always comes back to the thing, which is, did you move better?

Did it give you access to move? And I think really people don't understand, or I did a poor job explaining that the whole point of the book was like, here's movement theory. Here's how we integrate the concepts of physiology to explain why we coach the way we coach, why we get the best movement the way we do. Here's how we predict future movement. And if you can't do that thing, here's a language that I felt really worked for me because it maintained my ability to train by keeping that intact instead of, and don't get me wrong, corrective exercises work. It's just not a language I like or particularly use. And so it's one that I felt like adds a lot of complexity. It's like, you speak English, but we're going to do this movement that's going to help your English in classic Greek.

And you're like, what? I don't know. And then I found that those corrective exercises didn't always maintain time for me to get under load or time to develop skill or play because I was doing all this corrective work. And remember, I came out of physical therapy. I'm a classically trained physical therapist, which is all about corrective exercise. work. And remember, I came out of physical therapy. I'm a classically trained physical therapist, which is all about corrective exercise. But what I found was that if I was squatting or do some iteration squatting, and then I could mobilize the hip to improve the squatting, that was a really tight couplet. And then I was able to make that even easier instead of saying, well, here's another

hour of work you need to do so you can do the squatting. Can you explain to us what flossing is and what it does, how it works? I'm not sure. I know, right? Well, first of all – That's actually like a legitimate fair answer, I think, to a lot of these things, right? Here's what we can propose. If you – you can't tell, but there's cocaine wrapped in – It's my favorite drug. They're addicting when I look at them.

It really is. You feel great. This one is blue and quaaludes um so what we think is happening i borrowed this language from a guy named gil headley who is this uh crazy anatomist and if you go onto the web trigger warning you can watch gil working with cadavers and live like not live tissues but fresh tissues and you can really see he was the first person who explained in college. For example, I dated this girl who was, went through Rolfing school. So I became aware of fascia in college in the nineties.

That was when the first time I was like fascia, what's that? You know, and Gil was the first person I saw describe fascia and show what fascia looked like in his work. And he describes the layers of the body like sliding surfaces. And I was like, oh, that is the catch. Because people have heard of ART, active release technique. And the idea is we're trying to restore how tissues are sliding and gliding. So one of my metaphors is you should be like layers of cold

silk sliding over steel springs. I want those tissues to slide. Why is it being hydrated important? Why is being warmed up important? Why is having access? Because if your tissues are congested or sticky, they don't slide and glide and that can restrict your range of motion. So for example, in a lot of Achilles on the heel cord, if someone grabs their skin right now, you should see that your skin should slide in all directions over the tendons of your hand, right? But if I grab the average person and grab their Achilles, their skin is adhered to the Achilles. And so suddenly that fascia isn't sliding.

Now I have like an exoskeleton around the Achilles. So we don't use the word adhere, right? You know, adhesions is a old word that definitely was like a triggering word for a lot of people. You can go through the entire book of supple leopard. And I mentioned adhesions once by saying, we don't use the word adhesions, right? But we are trying to restore how your tissues are articulating with the neighborhood. And that's how we think about like, I'm trying to improve the neighborhood neighborhood so one of the things that we know happens is that when we voodoo floss we are able to sometimes restore how these tissues are sliding gliding we have less internal resistance through the layers some of those are contractile layers

some of those are connective tissue layers some of those are dermal layers but then also we know that we're just putting input into the brain so we're just changing how the brain is perceiving what's going on there and that that might downregulate threat. It may change some aspect. And if that's the reason you can suddenly have access to the range, I'm like, cool. I don't care. Does it work? Yes or no?

One or zero. Better, same or worse, right? That's the only thing we should care about. If you compress that pretty tight for a minute and pop it off, blood flow comes crashing back in. Suddenly we have improved hydration and better blood flow. And if I have a hotspot where a tendon is coming into a joint or a bone, and all of a sudden there's more blood flow than that, that can change my pain and give input to the brain and allow me

to move again, right? So if I wrapped your elbow and flexed your elbow, I may be changing some of the joint articulations. So now maybe I'm mobilizing an actual joint, right? So maybe that's what's changing and I'm giving the brain permission to access a range of motion that was stiff or I didn't have before. That could be it. And I'm down with saying it could be all of those things or none of those things, better, same or worse. And then we can say, well, is it easy to do myself? Can I scale? Do I need to be a professional person? Do I need to talk to a doctor to make myself feel better? No. And the fact that it's so inexpensive, is it a perfect solution? No, but it's another tool that I can keep. And I, when I travel around the world and teach or, or venture, I take a voodoo floss man with me because we've had friends who have voodoo floss and spraying their ankle the first day of

a track or on vacation you know or my soldiers who are in steer environments suddenly they can manage swelling or make themselves feel better so they can continue to do what they need to do real quick that's what actually you helped me with my jujitsu tournament i sprained my foot and then you immediately told me to voodoo elevate and the the injury was recovered within like a week and a half, but like the voodoo was, it made a difference immediately. Well, all we're doing is, so look, you're built to move. That's the bottom line, right? So I think in the internet, it's really fun and precious to get to battle about tactics like my Kung Fu style.

You're wrong. It's just so easy. And what you should be looking at underneath all the tactic is what's the underlying position that we're restoring here? Because once you start to see, and the way I speak is in archetypes, right? Here's a fundamental shape. Taking the hip into extension like in a lunge position is a fundamental archetype. I think, Ben, the work that you're doing inadvertently put people into hip extension for the first time in their lives. And their lives got better. Their backs felt better. The knees felt better because you have to use the body in the way it's used. And most people don't actually extend the hip.

They stand and walk. They get on the Stairmaster or the treadmill, and they just don't extend the hip. So suddenly there are near end ranges spending a ton of time. People think it's about the front leg, which is great. but I think about the miracles you're having are actually from the back leg and a hip extension. You and I have talked before how people, it's probably very rare for a lot of folks to even get below parallel, like in a squat position, right?

Remember you were like, months and months and months and maybe even years without doing it. Sit at the table, sit at the toilet, sit at the bed, sit in the car. When's the last time you got up and down off the ground? There's a great writer named Philip Beach who wrote who wrote a book called muscles and meridians and write that shit down yep it's if if you want to really understand the love of embryology this is your book and if not it's very technical but he has an idea in there

that the body is self-tuning that one one of the ways that the body tunes itself is through ground sitting. So one of the first things that I recommend for everyone to do to change their lives is to sit on the ground. Because you're going to sit side saddle, you're going to do 90-90, you're going to kneel, you're going to squat, you're going to do a high kneel,

you're going to sit cross-legged, you're going to long sit. And every time your brain's like, get out of that position, you do, you're exposing this end range positions. And suddenly you're like, oh, lawn sitting in some of these positions is like LDOA. I'm loading a fascia. I'm taking the brain and the tissues to these end range positions, which helps to maintain the function of the knees, of the hips.

So ultimately it comes down to here are these fundamental shapes you need to be in. I think everyone should be able to do a pistol. I don't think you have to be able to go up and down from a pistol, but I think you would be in a pistol. And what's the difference between a pistol and your sort of signature squat? There's no difference except one leg is in hip extension and the other leg is in flexion. So a pistol, both legs are in flexion. The bend squat is that split squat. One leg is in hip extension.

That is exactly the same. The difference is people can access your position much easier than they can access the pistol position. But the hip is the same. The ankle is the same at end range. So are you able to do what your body is supposed to be able to do, yes or no? And suddenly you're like oh i can understand that all the training it's just different tactics of ways of training these fundamental positions i remember you had me just put my foot up on a box you're like i know you're

lazy and you don't want to stretch and you hate it but you're like that wasn't true you were you were so this is totally not true about mark mark uh were like, show me a better way and I'm in. And that's what we're seeing. You have a great growth mindset. I mean, look at what you've done. Transformed your body. You were just suddenly done with squatting heavy and blacking out and having bloody noses for days. I think you were done.

I think technical term is being gross. I think that's another way of saying that. I think technical term is being gross. I think that's another way of saying that. But you always, but working with, you were the, I worked with a lot of athletes, but working with you guys is the first time I really spent a lot of time with strength athletes. And it changed. I was like, oh, if you're going to lay on this peanut on your back, I need you to put a hundred pound ball on your chest.

I was like, we need a much more severe set of tools for you than we do with your wife, right? Just different set of tools. But what I realized is that, man, people are struggling to get into these basic positions that I take for granted. Like when me can't get on the ground. You know what I mean? I can't flex my knee. You used to have a hard time putting your shoes on. Yep.

You know? Very hard time. You were super strong, and those were the strongest, heaviest shoes in the world. But then all of a sudden we started realizing that, hey, we could adapt these things, regress, progress. My feet are just really far away from my body is the problem. Let me tell Mark that. Can I tell Mark the story?

Yeah, go for it. I'm like, Mark, here's the thing I need you to do. I need you to get a hot tub. Oh, really? That's for the hot tub? Yes. Okay. And I'm like, and I need you to do it in the morning before you go exercise or train.

And Mark called me up one day and he's like, dude, there's something wrong with my legs. And I'm like, what's wrong with your legs? He's like, they're pink. And my legs haven't been pink in like 10 years. They've been gray and dark. And all of a sudden, they're pink. And is that OK? And I was like, Mark, that's blood flow.

And just getting you hot in the morning in the hot tub. All of a sudden, you have a little more blood flow in your shins. You're not dying anymore. I think. We can add that. It's like, if you're really struggling with motion that bad, I would find myself texting this to someone who's struggling.

Get in a freaking hot, like get in a hot bath or something before your workout. Why not? Just get it. I still do that. It's smart. I get in the hot tub before i learn more big rides trying to keep up these youngsters and then learn how to floss and you've got to it's so cheap and makes you so effective at helping not just yourself but other people you just got to i think putting your foot up on something is just so simple like that's what i

some of the stuff you introduced me to and some of the stuff you've been introduced me to, it's like, they're just simple stuff to do. And then some of the positions that you were getting in and showing me, and I was like, I couldn't feel a particular stretch a certain way because I just didn't have access to even get in the correct position. So you're like, oh, this is for your hip. And I'm like, I feel my ankle, you know, for whatever reason. And then we started having bands attached to us, and that really helped open things up a lot, which I'm like, I feel my ankle, you know, for whatever reason. And then we started having bands attached to us. And that really helped open things up a lot, which I'm still a

huge fan of. Ben has a, an elevated pigeon. We call it elevated pigeon, right? And we love the elevated pigeon because it gets you off the floor, allows for much more upright torso. And then you can move side to side a little more easily. But Ben was like, Hey, here is a incline bench and we're going to take all of the pressure out of your knee by elevating that up. Right. The yogis used to use a pillow, use that. And suddenly I'm like, Oh, look, the people in my neighborhood, Marcus Philly, I've been telling you to do elevated pigeon for a thousand years. And all of a sudden he's like, look, I can do it in my incline bench. And I was like, great. I'm incline bench in every house in

America. Right. So, you know, ultimately showing people how to progress and regress and the reason why so that you can then go do something else. It's never – we're mobilizing. It's great. Look, you can mobilize for down regulation. We can – after a big, brutal session, we could do some rolling on the ground with a ball and roller and we can reduce your session cost. We can decrease DOMs. We can help you to generate more force the next day. All good reasons.

But one of the best reasons to mobilize is to change your position. And before we leave the topic of floss, I learned about smashing from your book. I got a supernova, the butt plug looking thing. What's it called? Peanut? Peanut. Gemini.

The one that, look. Yeah, it says for externally useful. Externally useful. Yeah, I said that. The butt used. The butt plug. The Gemini. But as far as smashing is concerned, what does it have in terms of a difference with the floss? A lot of people will just have a foam roller or the spiky foam roller. But I found that smashing with a supernova like one of the smaller supernovas made

a massive difference for me when I would use that. And I still do that to this day. So let's apply the same thing we're talking about, regression and progression, right? So first of all, a white foam- Do you have a picture of it you can pull up? Just type in the supernova, a mobility-wild supernova. The white foam noodle was a pool toy made in Killeen, Texas. That's the true story of how that was.

Someone's like, we could sell these. And some physical therapist was like, genius. I'm going to sell white foam pool noodles. Do me a favor. Everyone pause this recording. Go to Thailand. Didn't see that coming. And go get a traditional Thai massage.

I'm not talking about sketchy massage. I'm like, go to a traditional Thai massage place and have a 60-year-old grandma do a traditional Thai massage. I'm not talking about sketchy massage. I'm like, go to a traditional Thai massage place and have a 60-year-old grandma do a traditional Thai massage. And when she's standing on you, you're going to be like, I'm dying. And that's how low the bar is. If you lay on a piece of a foam noodle toy and it's causing you discomfort, you are a gristly sensitized mess. Don't get me wrong. That's just where you are today. It's not good or bad. But what you found was maybe that noodle was too big. I couldn't access my positions. It was too round or it was too soft. And so you needed a set of tools that

was a little bit harder, you know, durometer, and that gave you a little bit more access or a different vector on the tissues and so look a lacrosse ball it's not perfect but one of my patients came in a million years ago 2007 was like hey i was giving out rubber band balls and this this patient came in was like have you seen this lacrosse ball and i was like lacrosse ball and i was like it's too round it's too hard it's too soft but they were a dollar 99 cents back in the day and I was able to give them out and it was a place to start do I think the lacrosse ball is the end all be all no of course not but all of a sudden you're realizing hey different parts of my tissues have different sensitivities different they need different things so suddenly having sort of different sets of tools to be able to access my tissues maybe is a better choice.

What is that thing built off of? Like it's built off of like some crazy architectural thing. Oh, what you're thinking is Juliet, the CEO of our company, her brother is a Starkitect. So if you've ever seen the BMW World Headquarters building in Munich. See if you can pull that up. BMW Munich. That's his building. So he is the dean of students at SCI-Arc, an architectural school.

This is really cool. There's a brand new crazy digital billboard in Hollywood. Have you seen that? I haven't. West Hollywood. He calls it the Sunset Spectacular. He builds high-concept buildings. And so we were like, hey, Tom. There you go. There's Tom's building. west hollywood it's like it's he calls it the sunset spectacular he builds like high concept buildings and so we were like hey tom there you go there's tom's building and we're like hey tom

um why don't you uh can you design these for me here's what i want and so we had tom come in and basically put his design spin and genius on in fact he uh did the cover of supple leopard i was like he's i was like what you know he actually um i was like i want a computational leopard is that right there that's uh uh no that's the old building oh geez the new buildings across the street one second anyway the idea here is uh we we tried to put some design and like I was like, here's the pool noodle. Let's make it a little sexier, right? Well, and you wanted something that could grab, right? Kind of grab the skin a bit.

Yeah, we wanted to be able to create sheer. Instead of poking the skin, we wanted to create sheer through the skin. And then, for example, I think the Gemini is one of my best ideas. And the reason I made the Gemini, and it's been knocked off countless times now, but we made the Gemini because two lacrosse balls didn't fit your body. You would tape two lacrosse balls together kind of, and so you try to have it line up

so it didn't hit your spine. Yeah, and those were designed for lacrosse. So what I think, if I could have everyone go into the world and certainly drop in a filter of saying, what problem is this solving? Is this restoring sliding surfaces? Is this giving my musculature improved blood flow? Or am I trying to restore joint motion?

Then suddenly you sort of have a, is this helping me desensitize or reperfuse or decongest the tissue? So suddenly you're like, oh, I understand gua sha and scraping. I understand cupping. Like, oh, that's a tool that's doing this. I think the mistake is what we try to do with yoga, for example. Suddenly we try to make yoga everything. Power yoga, strength yoga, power lifting yoga, you know, high intensity yoga, Pilates, boxing yoga. And you're yoga pilates boxing yoga and you're like dude

yoga is amazing quit trying to make yoga do all these things right and so as soon as you drop in and you sort of see the world through this thing then then you can argue about tactics i like this tactic better than this tactic great you know or this one scales. Russian STEM is an incredible technology, but they're $12,000 a piece. I got 30 kids in my group. Am I going to talk my wife into spending $12,000 on an ARP wave? Never going to happen. Right? So for me, I'm like great technology, maybe less useful because it's expensive. It doesn't scale. So suddenly you can start to layer that in too. And then the biggest thing I'm obsessed with is adherence like if what you know what you've done ben has said in your house here a whole here's a movement practice that can restore your range of motion you can do it in your house

you know i went over to a friend's house and he had a glued hand machine in his basement and i was like wow that's a revolution you know he's like well the knees over toes guy says you got to have one. I was like, Viva La Glute Ham raises, right? I mean, like here is like a guy who would never do a glute ham, but you told him get one. Suddenly it's in his house and he can do it all day long, right? That's powerful. Well, you also got more people to work on mobility ever. I think my sentence didn't sound right, but you got more people than anyone else in history to work on mobility. So you got to give yourself some credit how many people you've gotten to work on mobility. And maybe there's some things that by me throwing down a dunk, the person's like, fuck it, I'll do it.

No, but even when we're filming and we do something on mobility and then this helps you now be able, okay, one, sliding and gliding. Two, less threat. Three, blood flow hydration hydration now you can move better i'm just going to finish that video in a full squat and the next scene is going to be exploding up from that and dunking because i know that there's more chance of someone than doing that but yeah and i think if if i was going to suggest you know the sled drag and i as i dm'd you i was like you got a sled drag i just went through i made a tire uh nearly 20 years ago filled with concrete took a two and a half pound plate sunk it in the tire and then i would drag around my neighborhood and i just

burned through the tire finally just happened like two days ago it's impossible to drag too right with the rubber hitting the ground so if you haven't burned through a tire, you haven't done it. Because I say the 100 miles, got to put in 100 miles backward. Yeah, I think it's true. And we drag and drag. But then I was like, what happens if I only have one handle? And I have to do it all with one-handed drags. And suddenly, one time I drug it up the 800 meters to the top of the hill on our street.

It's a slight inhale. One-handed, dragging backwards. So I have to get this anti-rot inhale, one handed dragging backwards. So I have to get this anti-rotation and I'm dragging and I was so messed up. I drove up and picked up the tire and drove it back. Now you said something earlier and you said, Oh, maybe I didn't explain enough or something like that. I'd say from the moment I saw your first philosophy video, it was a hundred percent clear. This is to help you move better, not this is an end-all, be-all. So I would say that only a minority of people are going to see gems like this and misinterpret it because I also get the question, do 100 miles in one day?

Let me know how that goes for you right so i'm just saying um i would say for all of us i think it was pretty clear from day one of everything we were watching from kelly that it was to move better you know what i mean do you remember the 10 minute squat test oh yeah yes so that was the very first video ever made which is basically my you know exactly what you're doing like let's get you at the end range of flexion let's close this down 10 minutes a day just start noodle around and literally i go up at a course. I see my friend Adrian there and he's like, God did that in Torres meniscus.

And I was like, Oh boy. Like, you know, spending time in your native physiologic ranges. And I've heard you can overdo anything, you know? I'm like,

Oh, so you did 10,000 single leg squats your first day because you could, you don't have exposure. So, you know, look, part of, part of this is trying to keep people from hurting themselves. Right. And trying to explain dose response, go do some of this, do your regular thing, cherry pick the things that make you feel great. One of the things that I've, I think is a mistake is I've been agnostic about the way you train. I'm like, Mark Bell likes to do certain things. You like to do certain things. I have tried to say, I should be able to explain what good technique is across any platform, right? And that's why I get to work. I mean, I work in the Olympics. I have, you know,

working premier soccer. I work, I choose every, I get to all these sports because the shoulder is the shoulder, but I really feel like, you know, your community really well as a coach. And that means, you know, what they need, what equipment you have, how ready someone is for train their training age, their range of motion. I can't say that. So I haven't come in and what you've done. I'm like, Ooh, you're like telling people how to exercise and sets and reps. And I was like, man, I'm never touching that third rail. You know what I mean? Instead, I'm like, here's how you can do better at Ben's stuff.

And I always felt like that was an easy thing for me because people lose their minds. They need – I'm like, here's how you make cookies. And people are like, no, no, I need a recipe for cookies. And I'm like, you do need a recipe for cookies, but I'm not going to give it to you. You know, what you guys were both mentioning, though, about pain, it's interesting because, like, whenever you talk about, you know, your movements that you're talking about, you, like, say, it should be a zero to this on the pain scale. And you've always just said just, like, work through motion,

but if you feel pain, kind of maybe don't go deep into there. The thing is, though, no matter how much you talk about that, people will still push it. Like people will still continue to push that. Oh, come on. Have anyone at this table ever gotten injured doing something they shouldn't have been doing physically? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 100%.

So your ego is, I love people that check your ego. I'm like, that's so easy to say. But I'm like, it's really fun to bench press with your friends, you know? And like, I mean, Louis Simmons, right? It'd be like PR game and everyone runs in and tries to PR off the pins. Right? So I think we can always use that motivation, but you know, you're going to overstep it,

comma, be reasonable. going to overstep it, comma, be reasonable. And I think one of the things that the general gym weight room thing suffers from is that we don't always have a way to manage or assess what's going on, except did I make it better, right? Did I add another kilo or not? If you work in sports, the only goal is to make people better at their sport. And you have this thing. My athletes got faster. My athletes got slower. She was able to ride a World Cup and win. She was not able to ride a World Cup and win.

My player threw faster. They could handle more runs. They're like, this is working. But sometimes in the gym, you don't have those things. And so you can just keep making the gym more and more precious instead of ever testing your fitness. And that's still valid. The reason to go to the gym is whatever you want it to be. I'm such a fan. And if you have kids, you're like, I mean, we invented this thing called the 10, 10, 10 at 10, which was like 10 swings, 10 pull-ups, 10 burpees at 10 PM for 10 minutes. And that was like train today. And it wasn't very dense and it wasn't very good,

but that was all I could do at the time. So it's great that people can love the gym, but we've forgotten what the point of the gym is. And if the gym is making you move worse and your job isn't to deadlift heavy weights, then you need to reconsider what's going on in the gym. And I think what's happened is we got people with these big muscles or feel like they're working really hard. And when we test them in their ability to learn or access a position or do a sport, they fall on their face. But the dissonance there is too great because I love the gym and I'm so good at it. What's your take nowadays on recovery? Has things changed quite a bit?

like recovery? Have some, has things changed quite a bit? Do you think like if we're just incorporating good movement and, and we're training smart that we should be kind of more okay? Or do we need to like ice and hot tub and like do all this different things to try to keep our body intact from the training that we do? The number one thing you can do is the basics. Are you sleeping? Right? This is going to sound like Stan's vertical diet, right? Do you feel loved? Are you in a safe place? Do you eat whole food nutrition, right?

And then are you walking? I can't put enough of that. Like Juliet and I really try to get 10,000 steps a day on top of our training because we need to decongest the tissues. We need to pump those lymphatics. You need to move. because we need to decongest the tissues. We need to pump those lymphatics. You need to move.

And I think if you're doing those things, then you can start to say, well, a sauna is great. Can I afford a sauna? Does it have a place for a sauna? How often can I sauna? Ice baths are so cool. We love them. We have a plunge. We think it's the greatest thing on the earth.

But that's not part of recovery. That's part of our like, hey, let's downregulate and chill. I think we need to give people tools to self-soothe and downregulate and decompress because they're reaching for those tools right now already. It's bourbon. It's opiates. It's pain meds. It's any THC. I mean people are heavy into the THC and I'm like, well, stop THC and let me know how that goes for you, right? So I'm not anti-THC THC and let me know how that goes for you. Right? So I'm not

anti-THC at all. I think it's incredible. Comma, if that's now your crutch to manage how you're feeling, then we've really moved further away. So the recovery piece is, well, how are we measuring that? Right? And if you do those first things, then we can begin to layer in available tools and techniques. And then also ask, when are you doing that? So I have a daughter who's 13. She's a water polo machine. She's five and a half already. She's the tallest woman in the family and she's a goalie. And she can tread water for an hour and a half and not touch those sides.

And it costs her nothing. And then boom, explode. And I can watch her literally. During a timeout, she'll come to the side and not touch the sides. It's easier for her to tread than to go to the side right but she's growing she's like hey my hamstring is feeling a little tight I'm like great just keep doing it kid sleep you know I mean like we're managing these things so where do I be able to begin to have this process where I can say hey let's keep an eye on range and tissue health and so I would

say recovery I don't think people are working as hard and tissue health. And so I would say recovery, I don't think people are working as hard as they can actually work. So I'm going to turn that on its head, and I think people are doing what they feel like a lot of work, but I'm like, if you actually took care of some of the basics, I don't think you'd have to recover as much. I think you could actually work harder. So I'm like, dude, get on a roller or ball in front of the TV

for the last 10 minutes of the night. Attack what's sore. Attack what didn't feel good. Use your gym training as a diagnostic tool. How do I feel? You get under the bar. So the first thing I do in the gym every day is I just squat down all the way, ass to ankle, and say, what's tight?

I'm like, holy crap. I need to couch stretch or my quads are stiff or my hips are tight. And that's my assessment. That's my opening assessment with a movement. Then I start to warm up and then maybe I drop in. So now it's not just about physiology. It's about, hey, I'm using the gym to restore my positions. I love to bike. Biking is not good for you, right? It makes your hips so tight. It makes your quads super tight you're in this little tiny range generating freakish amounts of watts it's not good it's not normal so i have to go out of my way to do like rear foot elevated split squats i spend so

much time in a lunge position training so that i can undo the biking otherwise guess what my back starts to ache and i'm like whose fault is that mine because i did all the biking and none of the things that allowed me to do more biking i like what you said about undo um because i learned a lot of that stuff from you like um just undoing like sitting like first of all you could just sit less like that would be helpful then you don't have to undo as much of it but uh spending time with you and spending time with your family and kind of seeing the way you lived your life. It was the first time I ever really saw someone fully incorporating and integrating a bunch of different aspects of fitness all into like one day all the time. And that's when I just, it never occurred to me. I never really thought about it before, but I was like, oh, I could just kind of work

out like four or five times a day, not work out, but I can do some movement, some exercise four or five times a day. You don't, but I can do some movement, some exercise four or five times a day. You don't have to drop into the bend program. You can do sections of the bend program. There's no reason why you can't stand up and do your flat-footed, upright torso squat, your push press. You basically, that position where you have people just doing it. That's all trainer tips right now.

That's right. 20 reps. But I'm saying, why can't you do that? And so suddenly when you realize you can integrate all of these things in, you actually are giving people the respect that they need. People are busy and they have crazy lives. You have one baby, another baby's coming. When are you going to work this in and run a company?

You are no different than anyone else doing your stuff. Ben, when are you going to make time for this, bro? So I had a revolution happen today. I came in. I'm like, hey, Chris Bell. And then he's like, hey, man, it's great to see you, but I got to go for a walk. And I'm like, whoa. Like, Chris Bell's going for a walk?

He totally blew me off so he could go walking? That is a tide change, right? Where suddenly what we're realizing is we have to do a better job of taking the best practices and showing people where they can actually do it in their lives and start to have these snacks and start to think about their body is not like i went to peloton and i killed myself for 30 minutes i'm i'm off the hook for the day that doesn't work it's not working and let me ask you this how's it fucking going f-bomb on purpose why how are we doing with chronic pain how are we doing with orthopedic injuries?

How's depression? How's obesity? How's diabetes? Choose something you give a bloody crap about, and then let's just say how it's going. And what you can do is see that depression is through the roof right now. Suicide's through the roof right now. Opiates are back on the rise. What I'll tell you is that we are failing society. Our goal is to take what we learn in high performance and transform

society with it. We are shitting the bed. Everyone fails. You're off the team. That's why I really like your approach of getting the basics in. You mentioned sitting on the ground. Simple. Going for a walk.

We have to get those basics in in society because you're right, we're failing. That's why my thing at the end of the day, is it working or not? Okay, societally, we're failing. Getting in those basics can actually make a difference. Saying we've discovered the latest procedure for $20,000 and this can help, that's awesome.

But is that going to change society? Probably not. So different roads can go to the top of the same mountain. We have to be going. In fact, we have to, you're going to speak to different people than I'm going to speak to that Mark's going to speak to. We need more voices. You know, theoretically not cutting each other and stabbing and shiving each other every chance we get, but you know, whatever that's, that comes with That might be why, though, we've failed society. Because our best minds on all these topics

are too busy punching each other instead of putting that energy in to help change society. Freud called it the narcissism of small things. And it's basically where we will argue about these things and kill each other and meanwhile fail with the thing we're both arguing about boom so yeah my thing i i'll tell these guys sometimes oh wow i'd be happy if i could only teach that the rest of my life because i would know it'd be something so the the sled i do it before every session do you have to do it before

every session no i like to do it before every session? No. I like to do it before every session. I consider it a basic. If we look at the three basics from Kelly, are we sliding and gliding better? Do we feel less threat? You know when you get like a pump on the sled, you feel less threat. Like if you went down the stairs, you would feel less threat. That's right. Are we improving blood flow hydration? Boom. This is just one route of getting those three. And if I do that every single day, am I going to be able to spread that to more people? Yes. Am I going to make more posts and videos about it? Will more millions of views get on it? Will more gyms put in the sled? The amount of people since Rogan who told me, boom, my gym owner's finally putting in sled turf because of the Rogan podcast or whatever.

To me, that's winning. Not arguing with someone over whether the sled is the best choice for one two three is the sled a way to get sliding and gliding less threat blood flow hydration yes floss bands absolutely for those three and i think i like how you worded it because it could be any one of those three but i'd have to say it's all three of those you're getting all you're improving sliding gliding less threat and blood flow hydration now is uh if your gym has a sled and turf, you can just walk in and start doing it. We see that every day. People can walk in. The price on these is so low.

You don't have to schedule an appointment. Boom. Order it. It's there. You can learn how to do it. So there's two things right there. Basics. Boom.

I have a bone to pick with you because you can't just turn every uh treadmill off and push it yeah oh yeah you can break them destroy it i went to russia in december to teach and uh was in this uh was the marcus aurelius gym at the gamma hotel and uh very very soviet russian gym and uh literally had to find like i walked through seven different machines remember Remember, I'm super time trashed. I don't even know where I am. No one speaks English. I'm in a Soviet hotel. It's very, very,

this hotel was built for the 1980 Olympics that we boycotted because we invaded Afghanistan or they invaded Afghanistan. How's that for irony? So there I am walking backwards on these sleds and you could see the russian just like what is he doing and then and then i went and found a kettlebell and kept my range so my point is you can't just walk backwards on every treadmill but i've tried so there's at least one

in russia that you can do that on some don't work and for the record it might be bad for the treadmill it's pretty good for the human but i actually have to include that in videos now because of the amount of like hater comments on like that's terrible for the treadmill like yeah you're probably right we love uh when juliet and i travel we um we try to constrain our range of motion we're super messed up we don't we so we keep it really tidy and one of the things we do is we just set the treadmill as the highest highest ramp we can go and we just carry a weight for 20 minutes wow and you just don't put the 50 pounds down you can carry it anywhere you want and you walk at any speed but you just go up and just don't put the weight down and your range of motion is tiny

you're dying and people are like why is this guy walking that 50 pound dumbbell up this treadmill but that's not one of our go-tos why do you think we're failing what do you think some of the leading causes of it uh i think we perceive the foundations of complex the foundations of human behavior are have been radically changed recently so it's not the 70s were better but we had to walk to school more like 90 of kids walk to school in the 70s look at the kinds of nutrition like all the naturopaths used to say eat like if your grandma didn't recognize it or wouldn't recognize that food don't eat it and so what we've seen is hyper palatable cool horrifically calorically dense foods are everywhere now lots of inactivity and you know i'm like i i was so good i wouldn't have been on snapchat i wouldn't have been snapping my girlfriend at two in the morning of course i would have i would have been abusing all of this right i would have been eating all the snacks

so i think um what we're seeing is some of the fundamentals have changed underneath the human and then we're seeing hyper specialization there's a lot less free play because we perceive that it's the neighborhoods are unsafe or kids don't have access to free space we ripped out pe there's just i think there's these fundamental changes. I'm actually scheduled to go to the White House. We've been working with this, our second administration work with, and we're trying to get them to – it will be in a couple weeks. We're trying to get them to restart the Presidential Physical Fitness Council. So I don't care how you feel about this president, whatever the reasons are.

Yes, sir. That sounds great. Wow. Can we all agree that we can – Democrat, liberal, Republican, we need to start focusing on elementary education. And what I think the revolution is is not more medical establishment, but look at who is in control. The trainers, the coaches. I'm trying to start a program with our friends. We're doing like a Khan Academy for coaches

so they can be taught some of the basics. We have to think differently about our kids moving. Where are we going to do that? So, you know, if we can start there, we need to start elementary school, middle school kids. Then we can potentially take a crack at this largely. So again, don't be sucked into the politics here. I'll be at the white house. If you give me one hater comment about me and I've been at the white house,

I'll come find you and cut you. It's about, we have to begin a revolution. Hopefully that's happening from the top, but also one classroom at a time. And it's the teacher who I think if your teacher can teach your kid to read and math, she can teach your kid how to squat and play and climb on the ground. So I'm going to consult you for my physical fitness part of my program because I've identified the same thing. I don't know if it's realistic. Mark said, why is the system failing us? I don't know if it's realistic to change it from the top down. Kelly's bringing up changing how we're educating our youth. I do think that if we don't know if it's realistic to change it from the top down. Kelly's bringing up changing how we're educating our youth. I do think that if we don't do that, our stats really can change.

I don't think so. No, it's going the wrong way. I think it has to come from the ground up. And we were talking about it yesterday. I already have the preliminary articles. My curriculum will go online this summer just as a free curriculum. I'm making publicly aware how I'm

educating my kid. I'm doing the education for my kid and I'm remaking an education system for him. And if you just look at how many followers I have, it's natural that some people will dig in and take a look. And so the first couple of years, it'll just be free to use the feedback to see how to make it really polished. But that's one of the things I'm passionate about within that is being able to remake a new system of physical fitness. So I think you'll have so many gems for how to make that for kids. It's going to be freaking awesome. We have to think differently about the problem.

I think this is the first order of business, right? What's not going to happen is we can't get a Peloton or a Tonal. We can't add a complex solution to a complex problem. What are some of your ideas for kids? Monkey bars. They need to do a daily mile at school, just walk a mile. Kind of like some of the old school setups. I used to do that when I was in school.

Yeah, they used to make us do that. And old school setups at parks where they could like stretch and jump on stuff and all that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. And I think we have to ban soda on campus. Yes. Wow. And I mean, we just can kind of stuff, right? Yeah, and I think we have to ban soda on campus. Yes. Wow. And I mean, we just can't do it, right? And you have to give some other options. If you think orange juice

is the devil's juice, thank you Stan, you're wrong. But let's just get rid of all sugary drinks on campus. Do kids need to drink their calories? No. No. Except for milk. Or soy milk. You can't tolerate the milk we're all lily white kids so let's stop drinking calories you know and i was waiting for you my uh

his version of the school will be the fair life academy my my wife and i i always point out to my kids i'm like you're the whitest white kids we are calist star it has this irish as it gets and and the other side of the family is scott and i'm like oh you want me to drink a gallon of milk i'll be fine like totally fine everyone else is like oh my god you know i'm like fine my kids are like hand me the milk you know so the walk a mile there's a lot more to that than meets the eye that's where i came up with the name knees of her toes guy i wasn't even on social media until i got a dog and i grew up normal thinking that walking is stupid honestly that's right and my wife was telling you guys how i would never even like go on a walk with her you know what i

mean it's like what is that it's not elite it's gonna ruin my fitness yeah and uh got a dog and had to start walking and start being like, that's a pretty good idea. And that's been where I get my creative ideas ever since is on my walks. Now that's a crucial, I don't give up my walk time for anything now. Harvard defines sedentary lifestyle as sitting, total sitting for more than six hours a day.

So driving up here, I got an hour 20 each direction so i'm already in so even if i exercise and of course i can exercise is great sitting is not the new smoking i didn't make that up so that's that's a different researcher at uh who was an obesity researcher but the idea is not sitting as bad standing as good it's moving is better and we are designed to move if you want to have strong feet you have to use your feet a tendon has to be eccentrically stressed concentrically stressed and isometrically stressed or it's not a tendon so your ice and ibuprofen solution where you didn't use your tendon for six weeks how did that tendon become more of a tendon when you didn't use it as a tendon. You have to do these things if you

want to have a healthy system. And so walking is such an easy way to decongest and move your body. And man, if you want to turn your head and do all the balance drills and the eye drills, if you want to, I do walking in breath holds. So I do all my Wim Hof kind of style, Laird Hamilton breath holds. Here's a simple thing to do. Every minute at the top of the minute, take a 10-second inhale. You'll already feel it. You can't breathe in for 10 seconds while you're walking. You're going to be like, and then die.

Then hold your breath as long as you can, as long as you can. While walking? While walking. Don't pass out. But if you do, you'll be in a neighbor's yard. It's still fine. You're a weirdo. Passed out again. And then recover nose- you'll be in a neighbor's yard. It's still fine. You weirdo. Passed out again.

And then recover nose-only breathing to the top of the minute. And just repeat that. And let me know how easy that walk was. And what you're going to see is that we actually, I ripped that off from the French free divers who would run and do that. I guarantee you probably can't hold your breath 30 seconds and walk. You probably can't do it 20 seconds and walk. 10 second hold.

But all of a sudden, you're starting to integrate some really interesting CO2 tolerance practices, breathing tolerance practices, right? Turn your head. There's so much play you can do while walking. It's remarkable. I love how actionable that is. So my game is solutions, right? There's problems everywhere.

So that is so actionable in an education system for kids that it's like part of the daily routine is walking a mile as a class or however you do it. That's just easy. That's 100% actionable. I love stuff like that. You can just guarantee integration. And the kids like Ben who are ADD are going to sprint the mile,

and the kids who want to talk and the goth kid who wants to emo out, they're going to walk the mile. It doesn't matter. Everyone wins. Everyone wins because it's about moving or not moving. And so suddenly – how many PE teachers do you need to minister that? None. Yeah. Right?

to minister that? None. And so suddenly those kinds of solutions, we're working with Cal Berkeley on some research right now around looking at active classrooms. How do we, can we change this thing? And it turns out our kids in the fourth and fifth grade didn't know how to eat, didn't know how much sleep they should be getting, didn't know how much activity they should be getting. So we're just failing to prepare these kids. So all of a sudden you get five-hour energy drink and Monster, and you can stay up till two in the morning on Netflix. And it's not anyone's fault. That's the key is that you have been bombarded. One of the things that you should read if you are a reader or listen to

is Empire of Pain. It's about the history of opiate crisis from the Sackler family. So it's not dope sick, but you want to understand how we've been. These, this is the family that invented how to market drugs to people, how to advertise drugs. And they started with, with Librium and Valium and then rolled right into opiates.

And what you can see is, man, it's really difficult for people to understand first principles and understand, you know, that they're being sold a ton of, you know, and, and, you know, that, that big, you know, commercial wheel just keeps on spinning and the algorithm is not good for you, you know? So I think when we understand some of those first things,

one of my favorite eating regimens comes from EC Sienkowski at Optimize Me Nutrition. She has the 800 grams of fruits and vegetables a day. One of the coolest things to see the Bells was eating fruit again. I was like, look, they're not afraid of berries anymore. It's so cool. We should break that down, I think. Mark does a really good job of playing and experimenting for himself with everything. You do.

What was the Pinot diet? Oh, that was great. You and Juliette got to try that. No, she's not into it. She would give her a headache and it would kill me. She would end up with canker sores. Oh, no way. Fruit is really cheap too

and could be integrated into school systems. Yeah, we call it sport candy. Fruit is a cheat code. Yeah, it is. It's cheap. So we don't care. You're like, fruit, stop it, stop it, stop it. is cheap so we don't care like you're like fruit does stop it stop stop we see that people don't get it used to be that you would eat people would eat 40

different kinds of fruits and vegetables in a year now it's four for the average american wow and we think we don't care white potatoes are on there beans are on there eat 800 grams of fruits and vegetables every day. Then hit your protein macros and let me know what happens. And I guarantee you, you're going to be so full. I can't eat anymore. This is, you know, you want to do that on apples, knock yourself out. You're going to eat 800 grams of apples two days in a row and you can be like, I can't eat any more apples. And then suddenly you're like, where are these bananas? And like, Oh, this is amazing. You know, was it Dave Tate who said he's never seen one of those 800-pound live TV shows

where someone's surrounded by banana peels and apple cores? Right. You know? So I think... Fruit got a bad rap. It got a bad rap. It's not dangerous. I think fruit...

So I think that... And I think it goes much deeper than that. I think what happens is because fruit got a bad rap and we think fruit equals carb equals bad blah blah blah um there's not that much good fruit around we don't uh we don't even know what sees probably most of us don't even know what's seasonal or what's not and what happens then is without the fruit most of us in a modern lifestyle are going to reach the end of the day and we're going to be craving something what a bump yeah boom so i have a big bowl of fruit

every night and occasionally i'll get a comment oh that's not good this or that and i just i i just have a saved message that i send to them of just saying like you know i used to crave really bad stuff at night so the point is not the point is that the fruit is 100% better than the donut. You see what I mean? So I think that's an underrated point of it. And I see number one factor, I would say for people struggling with diet is actually they're not eating fruit.

No micronutrients. Let's take a step back. You just don't have any micronutrients. So maybe you're still craving because you still are lacking nutrients. Or you just haven't had enough calories. Yeah. Or you're eating things that aren't high satiety.

You start adding the protein in there, and all of a sudden you're like, I'm full. I don't want to eat anymore. And you're like, but you have to eat anymore. Next time you're just super hungry, see if you can eat a couple ounces of chicken or steak or something that's kind of – Anything. Just have some food. Salmon, whatever, yeah. Mark Bell has this thing.

He's like, oh, you think you're hungry? Do you want a hard-boiled egg? And you're like, gross. And you're like, you're not hungry. Yeah, it's fake hunger. It's fake hunger. You need throat hunger. And, you know, look, without – what I love about this, we're trying to get more people to eat more fruits and vegetables and more protein.

I'm like, oh, you're vegan, you can do that. You're vegetarian, you can do that. You're carnivore, you can do that. You can do this in any style of eating you want, but you need more micronutrients. More importantly, we need that earlier and longer with our kids. That's another easy to integrate one. The monkey bars is super easy to integrate.

You're already getting grip strength, all kinds of play, all kinds of stuff. The walking let's play. All kinds of stuff. The walking, the fruit, and you mentioned sitting on the ground. I think I stopped sitting on the ground at, looking back, I think it was maybe eight years old that at that point it was eight hours a day. And when your knee hurt, did you sit on the ground? No, and we identified this yesterday. If I could name one common denominator for people who totally just wind up

with their knees trashed from playing basketball, we go a decade plus without once bending our knee all the way. And so if I had chronic knee pain by 12, that means I was already a few years in to having that natural ground floor time taken away. And when I see pictures before that, when I was eight, nine, and I see myself down there in a deep squat, I'm like, oh my gosh, I lost that ability. And that again is easy to integrate. Come on, we can still

teach a kid a few hours a day, letting them sit on the ground. It doesn't have to be- Oh, do your homework there. a kid a few hours a day letting them sit on the ground. It doesn't have to be. Oh, do your homework there. It doesn't have, and that's, so already with monkey bars,

walking a mile, sitting on the ground, and fruit, quite frankly, that's how you change society. If it doesn't go into the education system, I really feel like

everything I'm doing in my entire career doesn't matter. And that's why I'm making, that's why I'm making an education system for my kid, and that's why that's my,

my thing, if I'm, if anything in fitness is even an education system for my kid. And that's why that's my thing. If anything in fitness is even going to matter, I've had a good career so far. I'm very lucky. Have a million followers, whatever. But I feel like that only has my foot in the door to try to make an actual impact. And I feel like the actual impact is going to be in the education system. I think what you said earlier was really important. Because the education system has always been similar.

It's always been the same. I don't know if they've changed much. It's based on the British model of hegemony where we needed to make clerks to go out and run the British Empire. That is our traditional system. And if you haven't read Weapons of Mass Instruction, I highly recommend you that book. And to my knowledge, I'm just trying to think of this right now,

so I could be totally dead wrong, but have they ever changed our education system to model anything that's going on in society to help with a current issue? Like, I don't think that's ever been done before. Remember that if you work in a system, how hard is it to change the system? Right. So think about your current job place, right? And think, I'm going to change this. Like, you're like, you know, you're a mid-level manager.

Good luck with that, right? It just doesn't seem to be a, they don't have a history. Like, our education system doesn't seem to have a history of, oh, this is hugely problematic in our society, so we're going to teach this into our schools. I think what we haven't done is said, whose problem is this? Who are the stakeholders? So talk to any teacher with kids eating poor food and being poorly slept there. It's difficult to teach those kids. And what I think is the school age day is the only time of the day where kids can actually get meals.

Kids can get movement. It's weekend. And it's since you have to go to school, we can really say this is the densest, healthiest time of the day where we can really improve the lives of kids. Our teachers are, I mean, it's really gnarly to run a class, right? Because we work with so many schools moving to stand-up desks. But we need government regulation. Why? Because we got shitty parents?

Or like what's the? Because we need that top-down pressure to say kids have to go outside for more recess because as long as we mandate X amount of teaching codes, there are some things around behavior there which we need to mandate. And presidential physical fitness test. Do you know why that – did you do that? Yeah, I remember. Right? I'm sure you were presidential flexed arm hang, right?

Yeah, they've gotten rid of a lot of physical education in school. I was terrible at that stuff. The presidential physical fitness test came about because Kennedy thought that the nation's youth could not be deployed to war in the Cold War. So he was like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to go into cool kids. We're going to make this game, this contest. We get a patch from the president. So we have soldiers.

So people have been thinking about these things critically for a long time but now i think because the world has shifted underneath us parents i think that the classroom is the functional unit of change that if you can bring all the resources to your own classroom in some way volunteer you know matt vincent someone asked matt on a podcast you know what do you think best way to get strong is? It's like lift something heavy once a week for 10 years and let me know what goes. It's like, you're going to get really strong. That's such good advice. Once a week.

And I was like, what happens if I had the kids in my neighborhood lift something heavy once a week for 10 years? Like you're a superstar gym goer. If you have kids, bring those kids over and teach them to bench, teach them to floor press, teach them press teach them to squat. I mean really it's that simple and do it once a week We called it squat club and we brought all the kids over and we all squat our neighborhood So the functional need of change is the neighborhood. It's the walking it's taking your dog out John berardi who is the designer of precision nutrition When he works with people who are highly unmotivated and don't have a pattern and don't feel good, he's like, get a pet because you have to go walk with that dog.

You have to walk that dog three or four times a day. We change your behavior, and you don't have to do anything. So more and more, I'm trying to figure out how do we constrain the environment so that I don't have to make another choice. I think we're just so choice-weary that if I have to choose to do something, I'm not going to do it. So how do I set myself up so I'm automatically blocked to do the right thing? Power Project Family, how's it going now?

We've partnered with Bubz Naturals and they're an amazing brand. They have this just wonderful MCT oil powder that I put in my coffee in the morning and they have this collagen protein. Most people don't get the amount of collagen that they need in. All mix well in anything, coffee, water, whatever.

It's also Whole30 approved. But the thing I want to talk to you guys about real quick are these apple cider vinegar gummies. Now, if you go on Google and you type in apple cider vinegar, there's tons of benefits. Immune support. Digestion. Digestion. Digestion. But one thing you'll also come across is apple cider vinegar tastes like

it's bad it's really bad uh that's why they came out with these crack gummies the reason why i call them crack gummies and it's an empty uh empty little package of them because uh we can't not eat a lot of them at once they're really good for you don't get me wrong but they also taste really good and it's hard to only eat two at once. They're really good for you. Don't get me wrong, but they also taste really good. And it's hard to only eat two at once. And the serving size is two. So you guys should get this. You should only have two. Good luck. Good luck. But the benefits of apple cider vinegar actually from these gummies,

I noticed that my, honestly, it's helped my digestion a lot. A ton. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely has helped me hit my digestion a lot so a ton yeah yeah it definitely has helped me uh you know hit the bathroom a lot more consistently uh mark always talks about you know may your shits be tapered and i guarantee you with those they will be but just yeah please don't eat the entire bottle the way we do but they're they're that good and you know i have tried apple cider vinegar and all that stuff and i just it made me it made me sick i just i felt

real bloated and i couldn't be consistent with this. It's very easy to stay consistent. We're too consistent. A little bit too consistent, yeah. But head over to BubzNaturals.com, and make sure you guys enter promo code POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your entire order. Again, BubzNaturals.com, promo code POWERPROJECT to save 20% off. Links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. Here's something that I don't like is that anytime there's government regulation,

there's going to be money behind everything. It's part of the process. It is part of the process, but I also think it's part of the problem because people are getting money and it just seems like once that happens and we kind of lose sight of what the original goal is. What do you think about- And that's a feature of the system. It's not a bug of the system. That's working within the system.

All our models are just archaic. It's okay. We have thumbs, but we need to get involved and we can change it. It really is, we just have to become more interested. If you have, you and your wealthy friends listening to this could put in one of those play parks in your neighborhood and start the process. Right. You could put in a volleyball pit in your neighbor. I mean, like you.

There are things you can do. You can walk off your neighborhood so that kids can go put up the cones, do the thing, start from this time to this time. This is a kid's neighborhood. Right. There's so much we can go put up the cones, do the thing, start from this time to this time. This is a kid's neighborhood. There's so much we can do. So I'm always battling the insurance business. The professional medical model really is not serving us. It is a for-profit model where people are – these big corporations are making billions of dollars on our health care.

That's crazy. It's insane. You don't know how much anything costs. That's insane. So from our physical therapy side, we've tried to say, hey, look, let's do this cash only, independent sort of performance therapy practice model. If we don't create a different alternative, the alternative that stands will always be the only solution. So the first thing we have to do is take what we're learning in the gym and begin to transform. That's why the garage, we have to do is take what we're learning in the gym and begin to transform that's why the garage people's garages people's kitchens is the place where we'll actually see foundational change

here's one more i'm a big fan of those torque internal resistance sleds because you can wheel it out to your sidewalk and everyone in your household and your neighbor and whatever can start pushing it and when i was my wife and I split time LA and Florida. And actually one of the things I, I miss is I was just starting to get into a groove with my 82 year old neighbor. And, and, and then I have another lady in her seventies just texted me yesterday and was telling me how much wind she's having on the slash. So I left it, I left it there at the apartment we were in and I actually got him another one, which I need to build. I built the first one for him. And that's something that, um, is it expensive? Sure. But if you're doing well, you could get one of those and your whole family could use it. You'd share it with neighbor, share it up. You can help your neighbors with it. If we can do that with condos, we can do that with sled. I promise.

Yeah. Now I want to, I want to jump in because it's so important. Our friends at Expo sled also make a sled that's on wheels, and the harder you push, the harder it pushes back. So there's another solution there because the torque sled is amazing. That's awesome. I think the reason I went with the torque is because you can hook up and go backward as well. Yes, and you can't do that on this sled.

Yeah, that was the only reason. I've tried quite a few, and so what I do is I— Expo is a little easier to steer and stuff like that. But I'm just talking about in terms of we can't go backwards still great to do a push sled though but I want to tell everyone if you have a jump stretch band and a friend you can drag

your friend around the neighborhood you get in the band I get in the band you drag me I drag you oh I see what you're saying you don't need a sled to start doing backwards drags you can start dragging each other around. That's cool. It's something.

It's something. It's not the easy thing. But once you have it, it's... Again, without arguing about tactics or whose Kung Fu sled is better, what you're saying is the neighborhood the sidewalk the street your garage is the functional unit of change that's the revolution

I think I don't know if you guys know this but Dune is my favorite movie of all time my dad my dad worships that so he's made me watch it and it's actually really good were you pretty pumped?

I mean it took a long time to come out you gave us that whole speech last time you were here yeah it was great and I even re-read the whole series again right afterwards. I thought it was really well done, yeah. But it's not what you think is going to happen.

Just spoiler alert, Paul, it's not the hero's journey. If you don't know Dune, suck it up. I'm about to ruin it for you. Paul's son becomes a sandworm and marries his sister. There you go. Now you know. It's going to get weird.

So just say heads up. But, you know, he puts his hand in the box. And in the original book, the woman says, our test is crisis and observation. It's not about the pain, but to watch what happens when we put a system under stress. That's what that scene is about. COVID is our box.

How have we done? Are we closer to our neighbors? Were we able? Do we have the tools to feed ourselves? Look, if you were locked in an apartment in New York, it's not the same thing as being in Northern California. Very different, right? People couldn't go outside of their houses in Moscow. It was crazy. So how could you control? How could you self-soothe? What we saw was that alcohol sales boomed. Why? Because people are trying to self-soothe? What we saw was that alcohol sales boomed. Why? Because people are trying to self-soothe.

They're trying to make themselves feel better. So if we see that as the test, our current systems weren't in place. Suddenly now we have people thinking about, oh, I work at home. I need to set up my house for more movement. I can exercise at home because I can go to the gym. I need to set up my house for more movement. I can exercise at home because I can go to the gym. We have to look at this as a real opportunity to now double down on some of these behaviors that are starting to become more normal.

I was curious about the behaviors aspect of things actually because we've talked about walking, getting good sleep, walking backwards. But what are other just like if somebody isn't consistently going to a gym, what are some other just foundational movements that maybe they should just try to get in during the day if they can? Like, hey, I should just maybe go sit in a squat for a few minutes each day. I should do this each day. What are some other ones? Well, I think what you're – we have died and exercised ourselves to death. Do we need another diet book, another exercise book? Of course we do.

Always. Kellystar.com um but it's interesting the project that juliet and i are working on right now is now about being durable what does it mean to be durable think about your great grandmother how much gym time did she do and she lived to be 117 you know what i mean she was a badass woman so there are some principles here that I think underlay and are, believe it or not, the essentials for all our high level performance. Walking, I mean it, like start tracking your fruit and vegetable intake, look at the amount of grams of protein you ate in a day. It's super simple to do that. Are you drinking water? Yes or no. Are you sitting on the ground? Did you walk 10,000 steps?

And suddenly then you can say, well, hey, maybe I can get in some of these other positions or I can set up my – and pretty soon what you realize is that now if I add exercise on top of it, that's a bonus, right? A muscle contraction activity, a cardiorespiratory activity. But what we've done is taken out the things that you need to be a human being. In 10,000 years, Mark, you haven't changed much. You're still the same guy. You're a little fatter than you were 10,000 years ago. And your femur's a little longer, but you're the same human being. But what's happened is the life that we live isn't exist. And I think I'm not trying to make some paleolithic argument, like go eat the carcass of a whale and you'll feel better.

It has to be, these are the things that we did and have been doing forever. And our biology is contingent on that. So there's this idea called mechanotransduction, right? Which is at a cellular level, if you want that cell to express itself in your body, you have to load it mechanically. So the fascia, you know, a bone becomes stronger when it flexes, it creates an electric charge in the bone, a piezoelectric charge. That charge

brings in the osteoblasts to make the bone stronger. So do you remember in the, in the nineties, like every middle-aged woman like had osteoporosis and they were like, eat this calcium candy chew. Do you remember this? Like calcium chews were everywhere. And all the women were like calcium juice. And I may have had a few calcium chews too. And all of a sudden it didn't work because we weren't loading. So if you don't load at that level and then you change the behavior of the human, suddenly we're going to see dysregulation and all you have to do is begin to start again and as you know and all the results you get is that people begin to load or move differently and they have this miraculous

experience because they're actually just doing what their body needs you don't need a monolift. That's false. Why do you think we fail even when we do know? So we're talking about education and we're talking about implementing into schools. Why do you think in general all of us fall short of a lot of our goals? And especially during the pandemic, why were so many people several months later, you know, 20 pounds, 30 pounds heavier, especially with all the information that came out, that seems to be the worst possible direction you could go in. That's a good question. I mean, you know, what we're really talking about here is the behavior change. And I think what we've done, I personally believe the U.S. and Americans failed because we didn't learn it as kids. It wasn't routinized.

If your family sits around and eats dinner, you'll sit around and eat dinner as a family. If you have a tradition of cooking, you will cook. If your family goes for walks after dinner, that's what you will do. I like that. It's not ingrained. I see. It is very much. These are learned principles. that's what you will do i like that i really not ingrained i see it is very much these are

learned principles and so people defaulted to their learned positions and learned behaviors and look keep in mind that our bodies are all about self-soothing and about that serotonin dopamine i mean it is feels good and netflix feels good and i have like my desire to train genetically you can look at some markers and you can see your genetic drive, genetic drive to move. And mine is like 99th percentile. I'm like, what are we doing? What are we doing? Like, you know, what are we doing?

Georgia, my 16 year old has hers is in like the twenties. How someone's has this, by the way, you can just get on your jeans, test them through your jeans. And so what I know about Georgia is that Georgia would like to bake. She's an insane baker. Just wait till she launches her subscription bakery service, which is coming. Really?

Damn. She loves to bake and watch TV. And if I let her, she would bake and watch TV and be 7,000 pounds and be a world-class baker and world-class TV watcher. But she has to be on a team. So now she's on a team. Now she has a practice. The environment is constrained.

Now she's like, I feel good, and I like being jacked, and I like being the strongest girl on a team. So now she's on a team. Now she has to practice. The environment is constrained. Now she's like, I feel good, and I like being jacked, and I like being the strongest girl on my team. So now she goes to CrossFit on her own. But it only took 15 years of me just being like, get off the couch. Let's do some squats. It's like you've got to be on a team. Don't eat that. And now the pattern is set.

If you watch the choices she makes when she's eating with her friends, she makes great choices because there's a consequence. She understands that and pattern, pattern, pattern, habit, habit, habit. Yeah. It takes a lot, right? It does. I'm sure you've had conversations in the family. I'm sure you've had conversations with your wife about maybe certain things that she cooks and eats and stuff like that. It's probably really difficult to.

But did she just eventually come to her own, recognized it's in her best interest at some point? Yeah, and it's tricky. You know how many girls we know in our neighborhood who have eating disorders right now? It's through the roof. And again, I think it's a way of control. I don't have any control.

I'm not in school. I don't have any control. I'm not in my team. We just took a whole generation of kids and separated them out from their kids. Like it's crazy. And we haven't even paid that price yet we don't know what's going to happen but simultaneously you know you just have to keep working so we're worried about you know weighing and measuring and being crazy and also just saying hey we just don't do that

so guess what if you don't want cookies in your house, don't buy cookies because I'll come at 2 in the morning and eat all the cookies. And if you want it, kids eat fruit. Dice up the fruit. Put it in a jar. Make it so that the option is fruit. And when your kids want something, do you want chopped up bananas or do you want chopped up apples and peanut butter? Like which one do you want? And so we constrain the choices.

We keep choice there. But you just make it so it's more difficult to do the wrong thing or do a less good thing. Are cookies a wrong thing? No. Cookies are amazing. But my point is, I think you just have to do that. And the consistency, and we call it one more fight. Am I really ready to have one more battle with my kids to hang about eating more vegetables? Yes, I have to. Because eventually, like Caroline has this very sensitive palate and she just will not eat vegetables, hates fruit. Remember the kid you met who hates fruit? And I'm like, Caroline, you have to eat three blackberries. Otherwise I break your fingers. And she was like, fine, dad, three blackberries. And so, you know, I just, you know, she'll eat

a drink of shake in the morning. I blend up a banana in her shake. So I just am sneaking it in because I have this kid who's so willful and, but I just never take my phone off the gas because at some point that habit is set. Yeah. At the very least they can't say, I wish my parents taught me that. Carolyn went to the Olympic training center for this Olympic development water polo camp,

all these really good water polo players at 13 and going wrong. How good can you be at age 13? I don't know. Not that good. You're not elite yet. You're only 13, but it's super fun. But she would send us photos and she was actually disappointed by the meal

food quality at the Olympic training center. And I was like, my work here is done. You know, her shoulder hurt. And then she threw on a Mark pro and she mobilized and she told the pt and the pt was like you should ice and she's like oh my god seriously you should ice she's like you don't know my dad and uh but here's a kid who knew how to go in the world self-soothe deal with some

pain make better choices and that's all we got to do we just got to keep practicing practice practicing the greatest gift you can ever give your kids i think is is fitness and health you know teaching them about movement and that's why that's why i'm like look let's let's take what we're doing and start and start with your family start walking start doing these things um i think everyone no one wants their kids to be out of shape and overweight and unhappy depressed no one i mean no there's no parent no parent wants their kids to do these things so and it's no one's fault. The system, the society, the environment is stacked against families right now. Stacked.

That's why I like your quote, one more fight. Because it is. There's this hidden war going on that's messing up society in so many ways. And it's not someone's fault. It's all these ways that things got more convenient but really worse for us, worse for our kids, harder to have a happier life. So it's going to take guts and hard work, and it's going to take that one more fight attitude to get out of it.

Yeah, and something that I think you bring up, and I've heard you just talking with your wife about your process, is that the glacial pace is the breakneck pace. There's no breakout person. There's no overnight success. It takes so long to make change. How long does it take to squat 1,000 pounds your whole life? That's how long it takes to be competent on the mat. How long is that?

Do you win jiu-jitsu? Yeah, by one, I'm the master. How long is that? Do you win jiu-jitsu? Yeah, by one. I'm the master. I can do everything. No, you never win fitness. We never win health. We don't win our relationships. So what we have to do is change our mindset around this.

And I think we're really geared towards winning instead of playing better. And we really take the glacial pace as the breakneck pace. This is as fast as we can go. And if if you feel frustrated you should because it's so slow what are some simple things you do every day that help you hold it together help you i don't know just be happy and feel fulfilled and those kinds of things um you know we run everything through this filter does this get my family more time together or less time together? That really is important. And everyone who's working right now, is hustling right now,

it's easy to burn the candle from both ends and never see your family. Yeah, I'm working for my family, but I'm never there. That's right. And so you need to start running that filter of, am I spending, what's the point? And the more I aim at my wife at spending time together, we love to train together. I see you and your wife train together all the time. And that is like one of the greatest hidden times that a couple can do something together. That's amazing. We sit down and eat dinner together that we cook whenever we can. And I even call it fakers dinner.

We're like, we're making tacos. But Juliet's like, you know, it's not a fakers dinner. There's four vegetables on this table and you cooked all this stuff. I'm like, but're making tacos. But Juliet's like, you know, there's not a figure. There's four vegetables on this table and you cooked all this stuff. I'm like, but it's tacos, right? And even if we sit down for 10 minutes or eat in shifts, we sit at our table and eat. And there are some things like that. And then the other thing I got to say, we do not mess around with our sleep. Like people are like, yeah, I sleep more. I'm like, okay, prove it.

So I'm to the point now where I don't believe you about your sleep until you show me through tracking. Because I think you're a liar and I think you're cutting the edges. That's another hidden one. Same with the food, yeah. I think the lack of sleep is another hidden one that's really messing us up. That's one of my secret weapons. How does Knee's Over Toes guy have all this energy? You know what I mean?

My productivity levels, whatever. And to me, the biggest aspect of that is this whole no entertainment thing I did, which I'm not condemning entertainment. The idea was just to get an advantage. And for me, that means I go to sleep so early. What time? On average,

I'd say 9 PM. We're in the bed in the nines. And that's amazing. And I lived most of my life going to bed. Maybe when I was younger, 10, but as an adult, midnight, you know, it's easy. And I lived most of my life going to bed, maybe when I was younger, 10, but as an adult, midnight.

It's easy. It's so fun. And then hustling and getting up in the morning to train clients. And so for me and my success, this became really key. And it was, got a dog, had to walk him. He chewed the remote. And I have that kind of vibe where I'll take anything negative that happens and I'll go, here's how I'm going to turn into a positive.

Or here's, you know, I justify why it happened. And I took that as a sign. And I polished this whole ability to like not do entertainment and stuff. And when you don't have entertainment at night, what do you do? You end up going to sleep. And so that year I had such good sleep. So then we had our one-year-old. And now I know okay I'm

going to want to spend more time with him where's this time going to give if I'm already a workaholic and blah blah blah and so cutting out the entertainment again I did that this whole last year and still rolling into this year and I've been so much happier because of that and now when you have a one-year-old once he goes to sleep it's almost like how soon can I get to sleep after him because you know he's going to be up early. So now how many people 30 years old are going to bed at 9 PM and then up at let's say five 30 or six getting eight, eight plus hours of sleep every night, then going for a walk in the morning. Of course, it's easy for me to script an idea. Of course, it's easy for me to study all the social media stuff. And I'll break that down so you guys can have the simple, here's the 2022 social media formula.

Okay. On top of anything else you're doing, here's how to simplify it and have no stress. You shoot a video a day. Maybe it could be a little less than once a day, maybe five times a week or something. You make sure it's shot vertically. You don't sweat any mistakes. If you're Kelly and you can do it, the one shot vertically. You don't sweat any mistakes. If you're Kelly and you can do it the one-shot wonder, awesome. Because you're going to clip out the space it takes. Even in a natural conversation, you have pauses and stuff. Nope, no pauses anymore.

So you could mess up your line a bunch of times. You're just taking the successful lines. And you script it before. And you could mess up your line a bunch of times. You're just taking the successful lines and you script it before and you look at each line. So I have in my phone, so I've got the camera there. Um, and I look down at my phone, I'll set it, you know, next to the bench or next to whatever. So when you see me shooting a video, every line, and it looks like I'm so intense and okay, my phone is there with the line set up. All I have to do is nail like five, six words in a row. He even positions the cameraman. That's hard.

He like grabs the cameraman. He's like, go over here. Film from here. Yeah. Then you get it under 30 seconds to say something that you already had time on your morning walk to script out. All I got to do is script 30 second or less that's going to make sense.

Four or five lines or whatever. Boom. Now you clip out the, the time you were talking, you know, that you clip out the, um, you clip out the breathing, whatever. So it's just line, line, line, line. And you put the text on the screen because most people are scrolling and they're not listening to what's happening. So it's a numbers game. You're just shooting yourself in the foot if you don't have the text on the screen because so many people, so algorithm wise, if it doesn't have the text on the screen, most people move on.

And you do that and you make that one video and it's super easy. It's like, oh my gosh, I didn't have to make some 15 minute long video with a bunch of fancy editing and all this stuff. And then I'm going to take that one video and I'm going to put on Instagram reels because Instagram has just jumped ship and anything other than reels, it will not value your posts the same.

And now there's Facebook reels, right? Well, yeah. And I take that exact same video that I post on Instagram reels and I post it on TikTok, which everyone's copying now. And then, well, it's just the exact same video I posted on YouTube Shorts because I know that the top fitness growth in YouTube last year, you'll be happy to know, it happened to like the nicest guy I've ever met. So that's cool.

But he blew up to 2.5 million followers from relative anonymity to 2.5 million followers. Hybrid calisthenics nicest freaking guy and his top 37 out of 38 most viewed posts were not youtube videos oh it was on youtube he got that youtube growth it was tiktok videos shot vertically amazing and he's the guy who's so friendly that he texts me ben facebook's coming out with reels now you should post your stuff on facebook reels too you're already making the video posted on facebook that's how nice of a guy he is here i am we're in the same space we could be considered competitors and he's telling me that and so yep this guy 16 million views bam yep love it and you'll notice as his videos progress he uses

he uses text on screen as you can see but he he'll use even more over time so he's um so i've studied him and applied this to trying to teach people how to do a sled and stuff and so there's four sources instagram reels t, TikTok, YouTube shorts, and Facebook reels now with one video that was super easy to do. So hopefully someone out there who has something they're passionate about getting across can realize. But if you only get eight hours and 24 minutes, you're going to shoot it horizontally. You're going to have all these cuts. You're going to have lens flare. No one cares. Yeah. So hopefully that can take some of the stress out. Let me ask you this. This is really important because some of the things you're doing, I think

it's so good. People can identify it. It's fantastic. I've always been battling and I've cut everything less than a minute now. It's so hard. We do long stuff on our own blog. is less than a minute now. It's so hard. We do long stuff on our own blog. The old days of 15-minute videos, gone. But in complex human physiology, this system is complex.

Can we simplify it down to 15 seconds? The most popular TikTok videos are 11 seconds. YouTube now considers anything over 90 seconds is long format. I just had my latest idea on that. Give it. And a year from now, people will be copying this idea. Well, people listening now will be copying it. But what is the other really binge-worthy thing?

Look at TV shows and stuff, right? And they're able to weave all these stories together over episode after episode after episode. So I recently, when I came off the Joe Rogan podcast, I was like, all right, what am I going to shoot this week? I'm not going to go get fancy. I'm going to go back in the trenches. What do people want to know? They want knee education. So I'm going to shoot just knee education. I called it knee-ducation, whatever. So I shot three videos and they did really well. And then going into the next week, I'm like that I was up against that exact problem,

that brutal feeling of starting over and starting over. And how do I educate someone in 30 seconds or less? And I realized I'll do an education part four. And I was able to get more data about one idea than I could by trying to do a bunch of ideas in 30 seconds. So I realized I'm just going to go till I have like knee education part 100, because then what's going to happen, people are going to binge watch and they will be able to gain a ton of education because the 100 will add up to the 15 to 30 minute unbelievable education,

which they can dive in at any time. Oh, I got up to 27. Oh, now I'm up to 31. And it'll end up giving them that education, but by understanding modern social media so if mark had a let's say mark wanted to get across some really deep mindset stuff he could take one piece at a time or something this is just an example i'm not saying you know just making up an example because if he's going dang i really want to get this across i have this like 10 15 minute you know video speech but now it's going to get the most views if it's under 30 seconds and I can't get it all across in 30 seconds so that's what I've realized about

knees and everything will just be knee education part 6, knee education part 7 and eventually I'll be able to get across the full data I want to get across you don't know but I just trademarked that well I'm already on part 4 so you can't it's a trademark though

circle C so I think Well, I'm already on part four, so you can't. It's a trademark, though. Too late, trademark. Sorry, I'm having a... Circle C. So I think that's the way that you can still win because I'm not looking for... Let me ask you this. Yeah. I think this is really important for everyone

who is a coach listening to this. Do you, do those views translate directly, do followers translate directly to dollars? At the end of the day, I think they do. Is it just a big funnel and you're just like, I'm going to give you a bit? At the end of the day, I think they do,

but I almost think it's the quality of what you're putting out. Mark got me into the mindset, change lives first, business follows. That's my thing. So if you look at my videos, I'm really trying to get across life-changing data. And that's going to continue to be the goal. And for me, it'll continue to be a numbers game of trying to change lives. And I just feel like when I go to the bank account, I'm cashing in on how many lives I've changed.

And maybe there's ways, NFTs, maybe there's ways to shortcut it. And maybe there are, but that's just not my game. Like how good does it feel when you're changing lives? And then you also get business out of that. So with knee-jocation, with a hundred part series of everything, maybe for my age, it's likely I've probably studied or worked on this subject of knees more than anyone for my age. And the fact that I get to take this knowledge now and give it to people, you know, to me, that's the best marketing game is try to change lives. And then a lot of that will, like you said, a big funnel. At the end of the day, I want to support people who changed my life, at the end of the day, I want to support people who changed my life, you know, and I tend to go buy products and support people who improve my life. And so it tends to work itself out. I mean,

you don't need a monopoly. How much money do you need? You know what I mean? Um, will it, it leaves some of the knees for the rest of us. Yeah. So, um, so I think if someone's passionate about something, you'd probably do have to understand modern social media to really get the data out there. And hopefully my little spiel there of making one video and knowing the latest trends and then putting that on all four sources, for me, it takes so much stress out knowing,

boom, I'm throwing this video up. Maybe it won't do good on Instagram. Maybe it'll blow up on TikTok instead. Sometimes it won't do good on instagram maybe it'll blow up on tiktok instead sometimes it won't blow up on instagram or tiktok but then it's doing great on youtube a month later you know how youtube video can like surge out of nowhere and the one time i did a video um scroll up some um hold on uh back down some. We're almost there. Oh, okay. On the left side where it has 700,000 views. I thought this video would get like even more. The song right now is straight out of Compton. You are now about to witness the strength of street knowledge. I got into my car and I heard like that song. Oh, you got to see the ending there all right check this out so

i i thought this post might you know go viral on on instagram watch the the finish right here boom i thought it might go viral it actually done better later it didn't do good at first you filmed that from the other side as well yeah because i've seen that side. I film all different ways. But the point is that that ended up reaching like 2.9 million people on Facebook reels. And I had like 10,000 followers. I wasn't even doing Facebook. I already quickly have 50,000 followers on Facebook. But I have over 500,000 on YouTube, over 500,000 on TikTok, and over a million on Instagram. And I've just started doing Facebook.

And I keep my stats every week. So I know that I had 10,000 new Facebook followers this week, but how much work did I do on Facebook? Nothing. I posted the exact same video that I posted on the other three channels. So if someone's out there feeling stressed out about social media, feeling you have to conform or change your personality, man, I heard a cool song and I thought street knowledge, like, cause I'm trying to give people real common sense knowledge. I had fun shooting that post. How much work did I have to do? I threw down a reverse dunk, landed a squat, jumped back up for 10 seconds and then put it on four different platforms. A few of which it didn't do good on another one. It happened to do great on. So I think that could really take some stress out for people use all four platforms. I'm excited

to see what happens in, see what happens and how this, it is so hard to get people's attention. You've done that so well and I'm really excited to see what happens in 10 years. We're planting these seeds. It's going to be the education. It's so hard to get hot

and anyone who's thrown shade at you at all and I've texted you about some of the people who got mad on the internet and uh you're getting mad and i said i just reminding i was like hey look excellence is performing at a high level for a long time when people get hot and you get jealous don't be jealous just stick around they'll you'll see how they go and you know you know, just the consistency matters. See where everyone is in 10 years and celebrate people's hotness.

When someone gets hot on the internet, be like, that's so cool. I hope they're doing okay. See where they are in 10 years. We're still standing here. You know what I mean? I've got a walker behind me. I'm lucky to have good mentors like Mark. And even from day one, Kelly called me before I went on Rogan. And he was like, if you ever need someone to talk to, you know,

so that was freaking cool. So like behind closed doors, these guys are unbelievable. Mark sent me a message last night and he was like, your wife's probably listening to it. He mentioned we were both listening to it. So it was like an eight minute like voice message. And my wife was just blown away. And so if you are lucky enough to get mentors like that, that's how I know that 10 years from now, I'll be accomplishing even more of my deeper goals. It's by having those mentors, not buying into the social media stuff.

Social media for me is just a way to get out data that I wish I had. Yeah, I just want to address something. So I think he's on the other side of it. He's quite a bit younger than we are. And I think for him it's incorporated. Like social media is incorporated. Like I don't know if you heard some of his language, but he's like, it's not any work.

I think that you and I view social media probably differently. Like I do feel like it's work. It's like a dead bird around my neck. It's so awesome. I dream of becoming a citizen again where I turn it off and I walk through the fields of Elysium. It's a side job that you didn't ever sign up for necessarily. But to answer your question, do the dollars kind of add up, I would just say this.

I would say that if you discontinued, maybe not all forms of social media, because that might be too harsh, but if you discontinued traditional forms of social media, you'd make the same amount of money, if not more money, because you'd be able to put more time into it. For myself, I've spent millions of dollars on media. I've had a media team. there was a point where we spent 250k a year very easily on just staffing, you know, having just people film. And then on top of that, there's, you know, there's all the other money that you spend via social media for ads and things like that. And so it definitely like dollar, if someone was to analyze that, they'd be like, you're doing really bad on this part.

Like, you're blowing too much money. But for me, I just never personally really cared that much about it. Race to zero. Race to zero followers. You might see, like, I just drop posts, and I don't take the time to put the words on there. I don't take the time, because I barely know how to do any of that. It's going to take me too long. And I'm just like, you know what?

The people that are going to hear it, they're going to hear it. The people that it lands on well and it does something for them, that's awesome. But I'm not really trying to reach a bunch of people that, you know, through some sort of means

because I'd have to do something different or theatrical or big to make a big splash. And those things kind of just happen. You've had viral videos before. Sometimes certain things just happen. My most successful video is not me reverse dunking. My most successful video was me flying the Millennium Falcon drone

and pulling my daughter's tooth out. That was like on the news. It was everywhere. Front page of Reddit. We went like... So repeat that. Do it again. Really, Caroline, some company reached out, licensed the video,

and she made 150 pounds sterling and ultimately made like $1,100 on the licensing of this Millennium Falcon drone video. She goes, I love you, Chewy. And then we fly the drone out, and it pops the tooth out. And notice my foot doing something weird? That became like an internet Reddit subreddit feed. Like my foot is crossing weird that became like an internet reddit subreddit feed like my foot is i'm like crossing my toes or the table but all i need to do and caroline is like hey let's do another one of those videos it's so easy yeah you have to do like you have to do weird

stuff like that your dad's name is not ben patrick okay you're gonna have to do that but that's i think that's the most successful thing we've ever done but i also think it proves because mark you do phenomenally on social media i just think it proves you can be yourself and we're different. So like why is it? The world has changed. We just need to bring people in and then let them come into your universe.

And you don't really have like a personal social media, right? I'm not on social media. Juliette's on social media. I mean, the Ready State and all the other stuff. But you don't, I comment as the Ready state all the time i never comment so if i you dm me i am the person answering the dms and if i comment on your stuff it's actually me people are like is this really kelly i'm like kelly actual okay it's really me but uh

no i'm i'm not on social media you know some of that is i have teenage girls and they're like dad check this out we We put up Caroline. I'm standing on Caroline's hamstrings, working on her hamstrings. And that was where Mark was commenting on my butt. By the way, I don't ever comment on my friend's bodies in public, but it's fine. It's a great looking butt. And Caroline doesn't have Instagram because she's not old enough. But she went into her friend's Instagram account and was like, wrote in the comments.

You can check it out. Dad. It's on Juliet's thing. Mom mom take this post down caroline so she's shouting at her mother through someone else's comment i was like welcome to the singularity this is this is the future yeah yeah ben i wanted to ask because you you do like the so the knee education and then like you had um like five things i learned from uh charles poliquin i know your your content's really good and people just like eat it up but are you noticing that like when you do multiple part series like the first one if it hits really well the next one maybe not

as much and like do you see a drop off because in my experience anytime whether it be like a podcast part one and two or a whatever educational video part one and two first one might do okay the second one like nobody likes the sequel um so how are you able to retain um viewership i mean this this serious idea only just kind of came to me and so with the need education for example i put out part four and it's crushing it's doing great so it's great i think it's um i think when it comes to short videos i think that to me it's a numbers game so if i just put in i'm big on what kelly said about you know making long-term progress yet away um glacial progress so for me when i get an idea it's not like oh here's how i'm gonna go viral it's like oh here's how I'm going to go viral it's like oh here's how I'm going to put intense amount of work over the next year and then let me put it this way if you're struggling with your

knees and let's say you see part 78 and it's like really good and you identify with it what are the odds you're going to watch something else from that you're going to watch something else so to me it's more of it's not so much like just like a part one part two it's more like when it comes to these short videos, I don't want to have to keep starting over and saying the same thing. I want to be able to go into more detail. But how do I go into detail in 30 seconds? By taking like one detail at a time.

But it's not tested. We'll see how it works out maybe. That's right. An experiment. Yeah, we'll see how it works out. And it may change. And you have reserved the right to that. But I think you're doing a good job of being yourself,

and you're highlighting that somewhere we were not serving people. If people are this hungry because their knees hurt, hmm, I wonder what's going on there. Why are they not finding the information that's helping them? Yeah. So hopefully it works out, but I'll be happy regardless because it will give me so many chances to go into deeper education.

There are millions of kids on TikTok right now, especially in Japan, who think you invented knees. They're 10 years old. Good job. Part six, how to floss your knee with Kelly Sturette. There you go.

Part seven. So it's rather than trying to explain the world in 30 seconds, which almost gets like more confusing and more frustrating. So for me, this is like, this is a way like, oh my gosh, this equals less stress, more getting to be myself, teach things I want to teach, go into more, you know, detail teaching it. So something I noticed is that if you have a video that is that you're explaining something, especially if it is complex, it actually helps to have the video be super short, like 7 to 12 seconds. It's just a chunk of it. And then the comment section and stuff will blow up and people will – because they're going to speculate on what else you said or they might have a lot of problem with what you said.

Are you manipulating me, Mark? You might say like, oh, have a valgus knee. This is perfect positioning or whatever it is. But it's a deeper conversation of you explaining something much larger. But who cares? You get a lot of comments and likes and people are talking about you for it. Let me ask you guys both this. Since you're both social media giants, how do you deal with people who are not great on the internet because you know part of

you know it's a big question it is is a big question because i want to say you know it's like a brené brown quote it's like if you're not in the arena taking the hits with me i'm not interested in your opinion so one you definitely develop a thick skin. But when people are gnarly and the only way that they're trying to get attention is by sort of shit-talking you or trashing you, how do you deal with that? Because you do a gritty job. You never talk negative. You always talk about what you like in your own program. You don't ever crap-talk anyone else's program. You never have a comment, I wouldn't do that.

Because people in the comments are like, what do you think about Ben Patrick? And I was like, well, and I go and DM them. And I'm like, well, let me tell you, if you're setting me up to be in opposition to Ben, even in this comment. So I would love, as soon as we're together, I'm happy to talk about him with his stuff. But until we're in the same room and I have some context, I never comment about other people's stuff. I always talk about what I like.

And you do a really great job. I've never seen you denigrate other professionals on the internet. Congratulations. I personally don't mind flaming the fuck out of somebody here and there. You know, if you think about like if, just like the way I grew up,

you know, somebody making fun of you talking trash, it's like you just talk trash back. So as silly as that sounds, it's like a little bit of venting for me and I just do it sometimes. But I think one of the best ways to deal with it is just to try to understand that that

person is like, they are trying to piggyback off of something that you did. They are frustrated or upset for whatever particular reason, but it has more to do with their shit that's going on in their day. If you ever clicked on any of these individuals, which, why are we even bothered to do that?. If you ever clicked on any of these individuals, which, why are we even bothered to do that? But if you ever clicked on any of them...

I've never done that. Who has six followers, and you live in your mom's basement? Yeah, right. It's the same guy. I think it's the same dude. But yeah, that's some of my thing. I have a hair trigger. I took from Chris D'Elia.

If you want to talk in the comments, cool. But I'm a different crowd than your crowd, right? But if you, as soon as you're, like, a jerk, kunk, you're gone. Delete. Like, we can't even have you, like, sit at the table. Be cool. If you start throwing a fit and smash your mashed potatoes at the table, I'd delete. I've deleted a lot of people, yeah.

If somebody says something really foul, they're gone. No questions asked, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's what I do. they're gone no questions asked yeah yeah yeah and that's that's what i do because i used to try to spend the time to actually like help them out and like get to the bottom of it if i only get this spend enough time on this one special person how much time do you spend on that and then i started feeling bad i'm spending that time trying to help out this one hater but what about the what about the 99 people that just said something nice yeah

and i'm wasting my time on this jerk you see what i mean so so for me it's a numbers game and it's just where do i want to channel my energy so i have like like if you ask me like what was the last mean comment someone said like i don't even know because i don't even it's like i don't even register it and there's so much kind stuff. I let that fuel me and I just remove and block any of the hate. And it's, that's just going to channel my energy into more solutions. So I can't, I feel too bad wasting even a second. Let me just focus more on solutions. But when you're getting into it, if someone's getting out there, it can hurt. If you walk down the road and 99 people said,

man, you're looking great today, and one person threw a rock at you, you wouldn't go down that same road. Or like earlier, you were like, you don't look that fat. I was like, thanks, Mark. Not that fat. Real talk, though. Now, like you mentioned, most of the comments are going to be typically positive, and we

always pay attention to the negative comments, but one thing that I just kind of find kind of fun because i like to troll trolls is i pin the really bad ones i'll pin that one at the top so that and i like it and i'll usually give them like a kissy face or something i'll say i love you or some shit like that i always do that probably roast them people roast the fuck out of them for me i don't need to do the job i just like we figured out in football in high school that if we were someone like our own team, we would set them up and not tackle them. And then you

knew your friends would come and just kill them. Do you remember that game? And then people would be like, let me down! It's like that. And Seaman just solved it. Pin to win. Then people are going to be a little bit more careful about the shit that they say.

Some of my best posts have been screenshots of something that somebody said and I just repost it. I really appreciate what you're saying that some of this is like I get to test ideas in the marketplace of ideas. I get to see what works, doesn't work. We've been doing this for so long about understanding,

reiterating, and the comments are, I read the comments. People are like, don't read the comments. Sometimesating. And the comments are, I read the comments. You know, people are like, don't read the comments. And sometimes I'm just like, can't read the comments. I don't or I'm too busy. But I do because I'm really looking to see, you know, how's it working? What's going on? Yeah, and I want to know that too.

I want to know how people respond to it. Meaning if I'm seeing multiple negative things on something, I'm learning from that, you know, because ultimately I'm trying to put out content that resonates with people. So it's like it's on one hand, I'm i'm like okay that's not someone i want around me you know someone's gonna call me gay for doing a stretch or something like i don't i don't want to be friends with you like goodbye you know however it's like if if i'm also you know getting certain negative comments on certain things i I'm learning from it.

I'm not just being like, no, I'm great and anyone who disagrees. No, it's like, so for me, it's cool. YouTube gives you feedback on like percentage and stuff like that. So I'm still looking at the stats and trying to make content that I can express what I'm trying to, but that people, like it's getting through, it's resonating. Hey, I know you're enjoying this episode, but listen up. We partner with Merrick Health. They're a telehealth network owned by Derek for more plates, more dates. But literally, the amazing thing about Merrick Health and getting your labs done with them is that when you get your labs done, you work with a client care coordinator that goes over your labs and gives you specific supplementation or nutrition protocols or

potentially hormonal protocols for your levels. The problem with a lot of these other telehealth networks is that when they do these things, they give everybody the same exact things, which actually can hurt you long-term more than help you. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at MerrickHealth.com. That's M-A-R-R-E-K-Health.com. And if you already know what labs you want to get, at checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT10 to save 10% off all of those labs. If you don't know where to start,

head over to MerrickHealth.com slash POWERPROJECT. You guys will get directed straight to the Power Project panel that has 26 different labs that will cover everything you need. And at checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT to save $101 off of that panel. Again, MerrickHealth.com. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes.

Let me ask you a serious question. Yeah. Your nickname has been Smelly your whole life. Mm-hmm. Sort of hard to ditch that, right? If you could go back now realizing that you actually have a lot to offer as a coach besides just knee health,

is knees over toes limiting? would you have changed your name now it's too late will you we become at ben you know or like the body whisper like you know because we had a chance to re we i named myself mobility wad first no one was using mobility and i was like i'm a genius no one uses this word it's a clean word i'm like it's the best word now it's like core or extreme it's the worst word no but i actually love the word mobility now mobility got a bad like the word mobility to me is the coolest word because the definition of it it means like you your movement quality but our i call myself wad mobility wad i was like so genius so genius and then there was sobriety wad and divorce WOD and bench WOD. And there was like – I tried to buy dick WOD already taken.

Mobility WOD was genius. But I felt like it ultimately limited because I had to explain to everyone. Everyone understands knees over toes for sure. Do you – I mean, and right now you're just – the frying pan is so hot for you. But have you ever thought I would have – because it's so easy in the moment to be like, knees over toes is so easy. Do you feel like that ever is going to be limiting because you actually have more to say

about shoulders and the rest of the body? I probably have a surprisingly low ego, so I'm happy to be knees over toes. Like, I don't, like, I think it's, I think it's the coolest thing that it's resonated and caught on with people. When you're in the gym playing basketball with everybody else,

you have the what? The smallest what? Oh. Well, I mean, you guys see me. I'm not that tall for being a basketball player. And when you can't jump, like how much confidence do you think I had playing high school basketball, you know, or playing college basketball?

So, yeah, I guess I joked, but I probably had the smallest dick on the court every time i played and you know i guess humble beginnings yeah humble humble beginnings so i'm sure that i'm sure after all this valuable data i'm sure the video that will go out yeah oh yeah that's yeah that's the that's the one that's going to blow up only someone with a massive cock says they have a small one, so we know he's joking about it. That's true. Self-proclaimed small penis club. Once again, Enzima is saving the day for me. No, but yeah, I think it's the coolest thing.

All right, funny story. Get to Sacramento, and my wife and I go out to have dinner just two nights ago here right we just get into town and we come into a restaurant and first like the the waiter standing there is like oh my god your knees over toes guy whatever like it helped him and then on our way to like go to a table or then on our way to the host stand someone's like knees over toes and he and he runs over and like gets a photo with me and my wife and baby and stuff. And he was like, I was following you before Rogan, like save my knees. He couldn't do his sport or whatever. And, and, and the host is like,

we'll take you guys to like, um, like a table where you won't be distracted. Like we're so, you know, we really appreciate, you know, like she's trading this restaurant and my wife and I are just like dying, laughing about this. You know what I mean? And she's like, we, you know, like she's trading this restaurant and my wife and I are just like dying, laughing about this. You know what I mean? And she's like, we, you know,

she was like apologizing for like the, you know, whoever had like come over to take a photo. And, and I had to like explain to her, I'm like, that's like the coolest thing ever to us. The fact that guy came over to take a photo.

I'm like, don't worry about it. That's the highlight for us. Like, we're just like watching. It's not Brad Pitt. You don't have those. Right. We're just, exactly. We're just watching this happen. Like that's the highlight for us. It's not Brad Pitt. You don't have those. Right.

Exactly. We're just watching this happen. That's the highlight for us. The highlight is this person who recognized Knees Over Toes guy. You know what I mean? So I still live my life just as normal as can be, and it's like, oh, that's Knees Over Toes guy. You know what I mean?

I even look at the videos, and I put in the work and stuff, and it's like, oh, that's super cool or see its views but um i don't really don't really associate with it and my wife and i think it's the coolest thing when someone spots knees over toes guy or whatever so that's why i'm happy with the name because you know it worked of something that mattered to me of getting data across. And my second passion, honestly, which I got some killer ideas from you today on the education system. So that's where you can see, that's where my head is at. It's like, it's super cool how this Knees Over Toes guy thing worked. I think it showed the product of the way that we all think, how that can work for someone who's just a totally normal person. And even before, even

before knees over toes guy caught on though, just having this kind of, uh, having this kind of a mindset about life, I was already really happy. My wife and I were already really happy before, uh, knees over toes guy took off or anything like that. So, um, that's where, that's where my passion is, is just being able to uh raise my kid and and make that more popular of like an education system where someone's not going to wind up 20 thinking they're a failure at life they're going to have you know the tools to succeed and have a happy life and stuff so and be able to squat down take a poop exactly so knees over toes guy got my foot in the door to try to actually like make world a better place, as cheesy as that sounds.

No, no. I think it's okay to make a slasher porn film to get the attention so you can make the Oscar. I think that's totally fine. Well, my last thing. But on the idea of the school stuff that you guys were talking about, how do you guys or how would you guys tackle the social media aspect of things or kids on their phones and tech? Because you want to integrate technology. It's not like you can keep that away from your children. You can't integrate it?

Okay. Like what do you mean by that? You can't. I mean, as in you can't fight it. It's here. Yeah. You know, your kids are learning on Zoom. So you have to now, I think we saw this phenomenon,

and you can back me up on this and you guys too. It used to be that we were told play all the sports. We just played everything. Like we valued the best athlete was the kid who could do everything, right? That kid was always good, always picked first for the kickball team. But then all of a sudden we realized it would have been nice to have some formal movement training, a little dance, a little Olympic lifting, some sprint.

Like we could have used a little bit more. And what we saw now is that the opposite is true we're seeing these hyper specialized kids and we're having to do all of this formal movement training instead of you know and durability training so we went from needing it's a little bit sort of needing a lot of education on how to move the basics right because kids don't do it so if you if you have a kid come into your class, I work and teach in high schools and elementary schools, and asking kids to squat down is grim. So something has changed for sure. So the idea here is around the social media piece, we are going to have to recognize that we have to change the environment because this is here to stay.

We have strict rules on when our phones go away at night. They're just gone. Kids can't be on them anymore. We have, even for our 16-year-old, we have a time limit on social media. So we assign it. And if she needs more, she has to come ask for something. Remember, kids are communicating with their teams on Snapchat. That's not going away.

This is where practice is. This is where the game is. So you can't be a Luddite and go out of this, but you're going to just have to have limits. And every once in a while, there was a time where Georgia figured out that she could fake plug her phone in in the kitchen, and then she'd take it, and I figured that out.

And then her phone went into this cookie jar that has a locking lid and is time-domain, and she'd be like, no! And she could see her. And the only way to open the thing, take the batteries out, it just stops. You have to wait until the lock goes off or break it open. And she's like, I can't charge my phone. I'm like, sorry, kid.

You ruined it. So we have really strong feelings. Caroline is an eighth grader. She does not have Instagram. She does not have Snapchat because she's in the eighth grade. So you just have to, as an adult, remember you're the adult here, and you can say no or, hey, this amount is how much time our family is okay with, a half hour or an hour, and then not.

And that's the only way. And then we had to make our girls sign a social media contract. No duck lips. I'm never going to see your butt crease. You're never going to do sexy stuff. The second you're doing that, you lose the social media. Good for you.

And that's part of it, parenting responsibility. It's hard to do. It's hard for our kids. I think that's huge. How did you manage when they ask, well, you're on your phone. How did you respond to that kind of stuff? And that's a fair criticism, right? Is that I do make times where I leave my phone behind.

I'll leave it. It's not there because of the disease. And I look right now as I'm a coach, and I can't travel and do as much as I want normally working with all the teams. So I get a lot of data, and I watch a lot of the teams that I'm working with remotely, and I watch a lot of the coaches I respect and admire coaching. And then simultaneously, I'm like, oh, the algorithm is so good. It's so soothing. And so I have to set, it knows me.

Cat videos, raccoon videos. I'm writing on like Indian street food videos are hot. So I am aware. And if anyone, if Juliet or anyone says, hey, you're on your phone, you have to like put it down. We don't have at the table and, you have to put it down. We don't have it at the table, and I just have to put it down. I leave my phone in the kitchen at night. It's gone.

Setting those things aware. One time, Brian McKenzie and I made our phones black and white for a while. That was terrible. I hated it. So I went back to color because it's more interesting. But I think putting my Instagram on the second page, a lot of friends have deleted it and have to reinstall it to work. But unfortunately you have to play social media in this realm because it's how we generate the leads in the funnels. But I think you have to be hyper aware, but I would suggest everyone to take the Kelly Starrett social media challenge,

go to Instagram, open it up and the explore button, magnifying glass click on the explore button and see what social media thinks you are as a person wow and it will show you what the algorithm thinks you are and i did this with our friend matt vincent matt's like wow i'm into hunky dudes and jacked women hunky dudes jack women hunky dudes hunky dudes hunky dudes he's like whoa all the hunky dudes and jack girls like there's this page after page it's, it really does see what you're spending your time on. And it is easy to lose your mind and get sucked in whether you like it or not around that. Everyone has abs.

Everyone is, has a perfect life and everyone has a perfect bench. And so look at that and see what it says about you and about, I think that's really an interesting sort of self exploration experiment. Yeah. And I, I think he said it though, how he leaves his phone.

So that's the only way my wife and I, we turn our phones off and go out on a date or whatever it is. And it's funny here. I am. My business is social media and we're out having dinner and noticing so many couples both on their phones. So you can totally do it for your business and actually still live differently.

And I think it feels great to have the phone off. And then I mentioned the sleep thing. So once it gets time for, even near the time for bed, phone, like turn it off. You get an alarm from the walker. Not even like, oh, I put it away or something. No, no, like I turn my phone off every night.

Look at it like heroin I'm serious your brain is looking for the hit and if you said to your kid there's heroin next to the table

but I don't want you to go for the heroin tonight so just leave the heroin there no one's going to leave it no one's going to leave it you can't do it

if I bring a stack of cookies next to my bed I will wake up in the morning and be like cookies so I just have to leave it there. So I leave my phone other places. Even just when we started this,

you were like, oh, you can get your phone. I was like, nope, my phone is over there. Because I don't want to be anywhere near it. Mine's off in the gym right now. It will drive my behavior. So I'm not naive to say that I'm, you know, I love junk food. You know, it's amazing, but I just don't buy it. My dirty secret, I love Diet Coke.

I'm not going to ever, ever undeny it. Why is that a dirty secret? Because everyone's like, Diet Coke's so bad. It's not. But it's the habits you're setting up. And then it becomes easy to have your phone off in a way. And at first, it's like, at first, my wife and I, we'd be, oh, Google, see if there's another. You know what I mean?

It's almost like part of your thought process. It's like, oh, shit, we didn't bring our phones. So it becomes normal. But yeah, we acknowledge that we're human. We want junk food. We want to go. If I want a Diet Coke, I have to go buy it is what I'm saying. I don't have a six pack in the house because I'm like, oh.

That's the trick. Just don't have it in the house. And then you're still creating a habit that even if you go have it, you're not going to have as much as if it was in the house. You know what I tell my girls? If you don't want to be caught doing cocaine off a stripper in Vegas, don't go to Vegas. You told a 13-year-old this?

Oh, for sure. My kids are all in. Don't go to Vegas. Don't buy cocaine. Don't hang out with strippers. That's fair. And you won't end up doing the bad thing. And they're like, that's really wise, Dad.

I want to know this actually since we've kind of we kind of came away from like the specific physical stuff but one thing that um i kind of discovered from supple leopard back in like 2012 or 13 or whatever was the couch stretch and i saw that the couch stretch is also a staple part of your programming in terms of movements because you have very specific movements you place but the couch stretch is part of that how did you end up coming across it did you discover it from kelly um it's called the couch stretch because i've named it the couch stretch yeah really yeah people don't know that i didn't know that either the sink couch stretch the bully those are all i named all those okay phenomenal um the couch because you needed to be able to open up your hips on the couch that's awesome yeah and i was um i was healing my body got myself onto a junior college team but

i wasn't gonna be able to do my training there so i found a like a local crossfit gym and um so i was because that was the only gym i could find that had a sled and stuff like that i was very much in the crossfit world, even though I was a basketball player. So I was watching all of Kelly's stuff, and I was even teaching people the couch stretch in that CrossFit gym. Heck yeah, that's what we were counting on. I've always, since day one, anything I found that I would help, you find me. I mean, you came in this morning.

Mark was working on this regression, which we don't have video, but it's freaking phenomenal, and a video will come out on it, which we don't have video, but it's freaking phenomenal. And a video will come out on it. So we can't pull it up. But and I mean, I don't want to put him on the spot, but over 300 pounds, you know, he's working on losing weight. You know, this guy and Mark comes in, you know, told me be here at nine or whatever. What was I doing at nine? I had him squatting all the way down. So we had a regression, got him, you know, doing his warmup stuff and then got him into like

full range of motion squats. And I mean, when do you think that last time is that he did full range of motion squats? Oh, it must be a long time. Yeah. Right. I mean, more recently he's been working on some of this stuff cause he went to your seminar. So he's been doing some of it, but for him to get down that low, it's just too much pressure. Yeah. And so we got him into full range of motion squats. So my point is only that from the moment I, you know, many, many years ago with couch stretch, and I use it not so much as a mandatory thing, but for beginners starting out,

it almost seems like everyone needs that just based on modern society and stuff. Yeah, and people don't understand that it's actually an end range isometric load. So it's the same position you're in in your kind of classic split lunge yeah shape except it's short lever the leg is bent and that is literally i'm like look don't people can't see the fundamentals underneath there and then we do isometrics there you know and you can elevate the front leg and i'm like this is an an end range isometric in a short lever position. Yeah, that's how I think about the couch stretch is it can help people then get into stuff.

And I don't do it anymore, but I do that full range of motion split squat every week of my life. It's my personal favorite movement. It's the number one position I spend the most time in is a long lever splits extension position. That's amazing. And we talk about so many of the benefits of that, and so did Kelly. So different routes, same routes. I'd say Kelly and I have similar routes.

I'd say he's innovated all kinds of stuff that anyone on my program should know how to do. And I think it's one of the reasons I've kind of refrained from teaching flossing just because I'm more aware that I had not gotten to the source yet. So now that happened today. Floss on baby. Exactly. But I, but I have, you've followed my stuff for a while and I've had, I've had plenty of videos about flossing, but not so much like, not so much trying to teach it from an authoritarian perspective.

And so it's kind of funny how stuff works out. And so once Mark told me that, you know, Kelly was going to be here and I had talked to him on the phone, I'm like, that was the first thing that jumped in my mind was just like, thank goodness, I finally get to go to the source. He flossed my wife's knee because my wife and I are fans. So I mentioned that via first thing walks in

and my wife is fanboy getting the personal flossing treatment from the floss man himself. And Mark shot a killer video where Kelly explained all of it. And it's actually super easy the way that he teaches it. So it gives you these exact measurables. That would be an example of like, you could easily teach that in a short video by showing those different measurables.

But flossing, you might have a series of 20 to 50 videos that people would binge watch i don't know my mind never stops thinking about it will be next week you'll see yeah i was actually gonna ask our entire media staff sorry eric and uh it's just i'm going back on my iphone 13 pro it's you know cinematic mode i can go from my floss back to my face back to my floss it's not but i think you really bring a good point. It's just how we're consuming information. You've got to bring people in. You've got to help them make little small decisions and then let them find the long stuff they want.

How are you still moving around so well? Because when you were doing the demonstration, you kind of were like, oh, I pop in this position, that position. But then even while you were explaining stuff, you stayed in a squat for, I don't know, 10 minutes. Your heels were on the ground. Feet were straight. Knees were out.

You looked great. Yeah, that's elite mobility. I see a lot of people. And he was sitting there in a squat without even having to round his back. I mean, I know what your wife would say. I know what she would say. But what's your – What does Matt say?

Matt says I was bendy before I was big. You know, at some point, I think this is really interesting. One is, if you think your program is really great, go jump into someone else's program and test it. You can use anyone else's program and test the robustness of your program. You're never going to be

handling the weights of the reps, but if you can't get into the shapes or do the skills, you may have a hole in your own program. So I really like to jump into other people's stuff. I mean, you know, I can do all your stuff. Yeah, he can do the skills, you may have a hole in your own program. So I really like to jump into other people's stuff. I mean, I can do all your stuff. Yeah, he can do the ATG split squat. And the reason is I may not have to practice that, but something in my own program is going to give me access to that.

And I may benefit from doing more of that, or I'm like, hey, I like this style of training. But if your training is preventing you from hitting a shape or a pattern or a movement then you may have a hole in your program right i should be able to come in and bench deadlift and squat any way you want and it doesn't mean that i'm going to be as strong as you guys of course but i should be able to come in and do that and if and if my programming leaves me holes in my athletic development that's that's something so i want people to take this challenge and say when you see something on the internet that looks interesting go give it a try

and if you can't do it be curious i wonder what about my blind spots so use this to find your own blind spots you mentioned like pistol squat test and those i i train those components so i'm pretty good at those even though i couldn't do them before my program but it doesn't mean i'm like you don't need a pistol right but doesn't mean i'm like anti there there really is different you know different your body doesn't know what exercise you're doing your body just knows the inputs on it and so i think what matters is getting down to those fundamentals getting to the basics and that was on on my list from charles poliquin the basics are the basics and nothing beats the basics. And he also, in a book, he wrote that if he was on a deserted island, if he could only have one piece of equipment, it would be a sled.

And then I saw Kelly comment on another person's post and say how forward sled might be the best Achilles health exercise. And I was like, holy crap. And then I saw him also mention something on just backwards sled, and he messaged me with a picture of his tire from forever ago or whatever. So I feel like if someone can get something out of learning from different people, it should get simpler. They should identify basics. And Kelly, right in that video, the end goal is improving motion. And I think that this really is an important piece because if you're training suddenly, as we talked about earlier, am I training for a sport?

How do I measure this? So I'm keeping an eye on my motion, but my training now is a loaded movement practice, right? Like I like to deadlift. I like to power clean, you know, but I also need to make sure that I'm not so strong that it diminishes my ability to climb on my bike or do pull-ups or play a game. And so I think it's easy for us to be really good at something.

We like to practice. The Bikram yoga is a great example. People went to Bikram, got their asses kicked, and then they learned the 12 or 13 movements, and then they could just practice those 13 movements. And it was the step aerobics with heat. That's what that was, right? And then you could just do the same,

and then you didn't have to think about it. You never were challenged. The order was the same. And ultimately, people love the comfort. You get good at something. But what I'm suggesting is your training should make you better at everything. And if you're willing to go pay a price for a big squat, that's cool. There's nothing wrong with that.

There's definitely a time in your life for that. But you will pay a price in terms of your range of motion. When I was in Russia, I was with this kid named vadim kasparov gary kasparov the chess master's kid oh he is a 900 pound deadlifter super strong and can do the splits and you know i'm like hey i do muscle snatches every day muscle snatch is my jam for every kid every kid gets muscle snatches we muscle snatch Muscle snatch is my jam for every kid. Every kid gets muscle snatches. We muscle snatch. And he just, you know, he has all internal rotation, and he can bench six or seven or whatever he can bench.

And what was interesting is that his whole program still maintained the integrity of his shapes even though he was really strong. And I think that's where we haven't done a good job of having people keep an eye on baselines. So you don't have to be able to do the splits. That's not an important skill. But moving towards having normative hip range

so you have more choice and application of your power, that is something you get better at. And I'll bet you've worked with basketball players here and there, and you see how we lose those basics. Yeah. And, man, taking a big 6'8", 6'10 kid, some of our training looks a little different, right? And so suddenly, you know, I'm like, wow, look what a – like, look, I don't ever train on a slant board.

I have pretty good ankle range of motion. Incredible. Right? But if all of a sudden your hips don't hurt, your torso's upright, and you're squatting on the slant board, fantastic. Then let's take the slant board away and work on the ranges you to have and i think that's where people lose the nerve just because we have this you know goldfish attention but you've never said only squat on the slant board but suddenly everyone has slant boards and everyone is squatting ass to grass for the first time or with a bigger range instead of that ankle stops torso hinges forward you're at 90 degrees and that's the

only squat for the rest of your life come on like that's crazy and that's where the serious concept comes for me is it'll give me a chance to explain these things more go into deeper detail yeah um so yeah what's what's a basic is us being able to squat all the way down or something that's right yeah so man with those with those basics in um for my sport basketball i think that was one of my blessings is i'm in this sport where similar to power lifting you're going to such extremes in certain ways so like for basketball our knees are jacked up our basic movement patterns are jacked up. So if all I do is help people with ways for that, I'm good for that. It's not about perfection as much as mastering the basics.

And I kind of have this belief deep down that if we really keep mastering the basics, that's actually how you'll probably achieve your closest version of perfection for yourself anyways, is actually by- Yeah, coming back towards what you should be able to do with your body i think you know the the ways you want to train in taxes is one thing but if you are missing huge chunks of your range of motion your hip then you can't argue that the way you're squatting is the is the best way

squatting because that's the only way you can squat so we actually don't get to have a conversation about what's the best technique you're in the only only position. You have to have a belt on. You have to crank your feet way out. You have to have Olympic lifting shoes. You have to be, you know what I mean? All of a sudden I'm like, well, yes, that's a great squat. You're super strong in that one position. But as soon as I take you out of that position or try to transfer it to anything else, it may be less effective. And again, that doesn't diminish how awesome it is to squat these heavy weights in those positions. So I think you're really on it. I recently just worked – I work with specialized bikes.

And if you – they have this thing called Retool at Home, and I created a movement assessment for cyclists on there because the bikers are the most dysfunctional people I've ever met. They can't extend the hip, no internal rotation. They just do this little tiny thing stuck in these little flexy positions. And all the things that we're doing there, people are like, this is amazing. You cured my bike cancer. And I'm like, actually, you can just put your arms over your head now. I mean, like, is it that radical? Right.

You know, your ankle actually just moves a little bit more. So I think part of what we should be doing with our movement practices is moving better and feeling better as part of the practice. It's not just about, did I get stronger or add another kilo. How old are you, Kelly? 49 this year. Wow. And you had like a knee surgery or something like that, right?

Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I crashed skiing seven years ago, eight years ago, and I had my knee replaced. I'd love to hear. So you're in that deep squat position that we just saw you in the gym with a knee replacement. Yep. Total knee replacement. I came here 14 weeks. It was one of my goals was to come deadlift with you at 14 weeks after my surgery and I pulled 575. That was awesome. That was a mistake, by the way.

No, I'd love to hear. Probably didn't feel so great. Yeah. And I'd love to hear because a common theme, and again, I don't think the doctor's trying to be mean or something but often doctors will give us limitations and say what we won't be able to do and so you were told that and i was told that with my left knee so i was just kind of curious why you thought you were able to now because we saw how his knees move that's one of the cool things about seeing someone in person and you know i'm just curious why you think you were able to do what was thought medically you wouldn't be able to do.

Well, first of all, most of the, Oh, here we go. This, we, you were like,

jump up again. And, we, we misloaded the plates. It was fine. Did we? Yeah, it was five 70,

I think ultimately, but you can see you'll all shift here, right? You'll see me. Oh, wow. A little micro shift, but that's my right knee.

That's 14 weeks after that was easy and the dead wants to be a power lifter so fast just let it go man you know what the problem is i'm small and weak that's the problem you're not just i am small just be one just go all just go all the way you know you know who broke so it's your fault actually that i'm not a power lifter i want to tell you why oh what did i do now you were like hey my friend laura phelps is a she can't squat anymore. So I got on the phone with Laura and helped her solve this problem.

Then she went out and set the world record. She literally was about to give up squatting. One of her feet was turned out. She was asleep. She was a gymnast and I was like, hey, do this hip thing. Check this out. Super strong. So I was out in Columbus, saw Laura, and Laura was like, why don't you come lift with us? And I was like, oh boy.

So I go lift at Louie's gym, and I'm super warmed up. You gave me a little suit to wear. I'm just wearing the briefs, pulled down. I'm ready to go. I've been training to box squat. I squat my all-time best, like 525 or 555 or something like that with 100 pounds of chain to a box. Louie watches watches i'm like i'm the best like woohoo and then laura came in and tripled it on her way up to like 800

and i was the weakest woman on the platform that day so the men were over there and i was lifting with all the women and i was the weakest woman i was like okay i'm out guys i have like i did your warm-up and i was like okay this is not my sport like i i mean i know i was with some really good lifters but it's because of you mark bell any dream i had about got crushed because i went and got lifted with these women and just got so destroyed weakest woman i'm still the weakest is unbelievable anyway i i cut you off though you were going to say something a couple minutes ago i was legit about to ask him about his knee replacement because like that's that's exactly why i was just curious why you think you know to explain there's probably a lot of people are going to watch this who are in a

similar position and they believe they won't be able now what kelly was doing is i mean if you have a the ability to full squat or kneel and things like that you can play with your kids your grandkids you you can live you know so much better of a quality of life than if you can't get you know down into those positions so a lot of people are of life than if you can't get down into those positions. So a lot of people are going to be in that position thinking they won't be able to achieve that position. Why do you think you did? So a couple of things. One is remember the physician's goal

is to get you functional in your life so you can manage your life. That's the end of the goal. So if you're mad at your physician, mad at your physical therapist, it's not their fault. They're set up to be like, you can walk and go up and down stairs.

Good. Our work here is done. That's when your work begins and your coach works begins or your homework begins. it's not their fault they're set up to be like you can walk and go up and downstairs good our work here is done that's when your work begins and your coach works begins or your homework begins and all i did and remember the head of orthopedics for ucsf did my knee and he was like i didn't know it could do that i didn't know this was possible i saw you backflipping in a trampoline i can ski and mountain bike and do whatever i want on this knee. So the key though is the basics. I manage my congestion. I keep my range of motion.

I work slow. There's only two things in any kind of rehab setting that happens. You either stop and do isometrics or you go slow and do tempo. Everything else is regression, progression, slow or stop. And hard stop. There's no magic to that. You go slower, you go faster, you stop, and you regress and progress. And now you are a physical therapist who can regress and progress any movement. Do I spend time sitting on the ground? Do I spend time working on these end ranges? Yeah. And you can see in our socials

how I progress. High box squatting, BFR, super slow. I'm pushing the sled first week out, using the sled and beginning to push it to work on being able to extend my leg and hip extension, right? I work on balance a ton every day as part of it. And then rinse, wash, repeat. We work the plan. And part of that plan was, hey, I want to be able to deadlift 500 again. No problem. That was kind of my goal. And I want to be able to do that in like at 14 weeks. I skied at 12 weeks, do that 14 weeks. That means I started to expose the hip hinge

and loading on that thing early on. So I worked backwards from the goal. And then the other thing is just, I decided not to have to have knee surgery not because I was in pain But because I started to lose function and most of the time we're having surgeries. It's either trauma Okay, don't have a choice Or i'm gonna wait so long that i'm in so much pain. I'm gonna have the surgery. Meanwhile, i've stopped moving I have ranges. I don't touch Right. I'm not exposing the tissues. My sleep is deprived. So I went in there like squatting, doing all the things.

They're like, wow, you really want to have your knee replaced? And I was like, yep, because things are coming off the table. I'm stopping wanting to go hiking. I was hiking around a waterfall carrying a kayak, and I stepped down right before the summer before, and I almost fell to my death because my knee just gave out. And so I was like, okay, this is about function. So that's the reason for me not to have surgery, not pain, no pain.

And I think we have really sold ourselves on making decisions about our movement, about pain or no pain, right? And that really is the conversation we're trying to change. Pain is a request for change. Pain is information. If you suck today on the squat rack or on the wattage, I ask you what's going on. Why'd you suck today?

And you're like, I went out and smashed a bunch of beer or drank pizza or I didn't sleep or having a stress on my wife or I'm overtrained, whatever it is. If you have pain, I ask the same sets of questions. So that pain is just another piece of information. And I'm not talking about gnarly, chronic pain that ruins your life. And that's a different, slightly different story. But when I started to lose my function, I was like, oh, time to stay. Cause I had full range

of motion going into the surgery. I had healthy tissues. We talked about hydration and blood flow and, and I had limited a lot of the loading. Like I didn't squat for seven years, basically. Right. After hurt my knee, I was like, well, squatting is kind of out. So I did a ton of deadlifting. I did a ton of heavy step-ups. I did a ton of sled work and I was able to live my life. But all of a sudden those things started to be impacted. I couldn't full clean. I, you know, I couldn't power clean that started to hurt. Deadlifting would hurt my foot. And I was like, huh, interesting. So that was why I had the surgery. And thank goodness I got my life back.

Well, and you're going to help a lot of people who go through that. We do have a, at thereadystate.com, I have a total knee replacement protocol where I talk about all of this. So if you're interested for more information or know what I was doing, because the bar is low. I just want everyone to know, just as you say every day, our expectations are low because we've been taught our expectations should be low instead of can my body do what it needs to do?

And it's not even talking about how strong you are. Like how strong do I need to be to go ride my mountain bike? Not very strong. But having access to my positions does matter. Did your mental health get compromised at all? Because it just sucks. When you're so used to being an athlete and you're used to relying on your body, when you can't go out and do the things that you want to do, it really can bum you out.

And you are the man that can move really well to everybody. Well, right. So there's a whole bunch of people. I'm not going to throw them under the bus. You may know them, who were like, oh, I guess your stuff doesn't work. You had your knee replaced. And I was like, oh, you don't know how bad my knee was. My stuff works great.

Like I put this off for years and years and years. So, you know, was I concerned that I might not be able to squat again? Here's what I said. I don't know how much more I'll get back. And when I was able to kneel and go ask the grass and lay back on my knee and do whatever I want, I was like, Oh, look at this. Who knew the prosthesis is rated to 155 degrees of flexion. I have more than that. What I can't do in my leg is a one legged squat on my right leg anymore. I can't do that. I can do a two legged squat. I can get into pistol position, but I don't have a PCL or an ACL anymore. So the mechanics just don't work.

You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, I have this little flat spot. So I can't do a one-legged squat on my right leg anymore. There, I've said it. I'm ashamed. Yeah, but you're going to help so many people and you've been through it. And my biggest thing, my biggest advice,

if someone wants to be successful, is to go learn from people who are actually experiencing the results you want. There's a pathway there, right? Exactly. Go learn from someone actually experiencing those results. So if someone now goes through that, which the numbers are huge, the amount of people going through it, and now you've had world-class results at how to recover from that, that just helps so many people.

And that's why when I view your work, I sort of your basic program i can't tell people how simple and elegant the program is it's so simple and elegant it's so easy to drop in whatever you're doing and you don't have to do that you don't have to be a hundred percent knees over toes ben guy you don't have to do that but you'll see that there are very truth in there and if you lay over my program you're gonna be like oh i see why kelly does a lot of vertical flat foot pressing you know why do we put push press in there why do i do tons of sled drags why am i working on my split position all of these things are the the foundational pieces and that you should be able to again drop into anyone's programming and you'll see the truth you're like oh here's why this works because everyone does that here's why this works they

have different tactics and tools but the principle is the same so freaking cool and i really i just tell people i got my life back you got your life back your kneecap was not hot it was not stoked and they set you up for really crappy expectations which is a feature of the system it's it's the system was set up to have you walk and get out of the car yeah but there's a lot of slack to take out of that system. Yeah. Yeah. When I've eaten with you and your family, I don't know if you guys still do this.

I'd imagine you still do. You go around the room and say what you're grateful for. I think that's what it was. Or highs and lows. Yeah. So are you guys still practicing that? How do you adopt that methodology? still practicing that and kind of what how do you adopt that uh methodology so that's a good example of a way of with your kids of creating a framework that naturally begets conversation so you're

forced to reflect for the day and talk about it we're not a family that keeps grabbing two journals this doesn't work for us right but there's this moment where there's this inflection what went on but now we don't have to do that because we sit down on the table and we talk because we've practiced it so much. Do you know what I mean? What did you do though? Well, we either say,

you know, tell us something you're grateful for the day or highs and lows or what would you do over today? Like that's a really big, like, and you're like, wow, it really was crappy in that moment where I needed coffee.

Sorry, hon. So you get a chance to kind of rewind the day and just be a little bit more meta aware. Cause I think that's the problem where we're all feeling like we're racing. I think you're really the reflection piece about what's working, not working. How did my training go? Just, just as you said, in our gym, here's our intention. We would set it. This is what the goal is for today here. Everyone understand. And then we pull everyone together at the end of the session and say, how'd that go? What'd you learn? What think about i just think we just if we can formally have these moments to

say hey what was really great about my training what would i change if you kept a journal if those things are important to you you can really end up picking up your blind spots and then eventually just create the pattern process where you don't have to do it did you press it like were you uh not allowing like bullshit uh so if someone's like i'm grateful for this cheeseburger like you guys like come on yeah yeah for sure gotta be something better right yeah and um you know sometimes i think people don't know how to be vulnerable or to actually sort of communicate that what's really interesting to see my kids be able to do that effortlessly and watch strangers be like, I'm grateful for my mom. They couldn't actually reflect or share.

And so our table is tough. You have to be fast and ready to go because the girls will cut you. They'll destroy you. Is that hamburger place still down the street? No. That place was amazing. And we got ice cream too. Yeah, that place went out of business too.

But we got loose takeaway. We got loose takeaway was amazing. And we got ice cream too. Yeah, that place went out of business too. But we got loose takeaway. We got loose takeaway there now. It's cool. We got some like crazy grass-fed burger thing or whatever. And then you guys, they took a picture of you and then you were in the newspaper and then that newspaper was framed. And it was just like classic. Oh yeah, because I have their shirt on or whatever, right?

Yeah. Louisa was like, you guys were super famous. That was amazing. their shirt on or whatever right yeah they louise was like you guys were super famous that was amazing we were changing no uh gsp uh is a friend of the family and uh we did some work with him for a while and become friends over the last whatever long it is but he came to dinner at the house and i was like let's go get ice cream and like people were like why is george st pierre in our neighborhood and i was like hey can we pop into our little jujitsu studio and people were like what's happening why is gsp in our little jujitsu studio so we're always trying to bring our super fancy friends in and blow months

you know he's one of the nicest guys oh he is uh you wonder why he's so good he's just you can't throw him he's such a kind person yeah. He makes you feel like a dick. Like, you're a dick compared to GSP. How about this? Every time he calls, he's like, Kelly, it is your friend George. George St. Pierre. I'm like, I know. It says George St. Pierre.

You sound like George Pierre. We've been friends for 10 years. But he's like, never assumes that I'm going to remember. He's like, I am a fighter, George. George. I'm like, yeah, I know. UFC. I've heard of it. Andrew, take us out of here, buddy. I'm like, yeah, I know. UFC. I've heard of it.

Andrew, take us out of here, buddy. Sure thing. Thank you guys so much. That was freaking incredible conversation. That was phenomenal. And thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Please drop us a comment on anything that you guys found interesting about today's conversation. Make sure you like this damn video because, holy shit, that was amazing.

Please make sure you follow the podcast at MarkBell'sPowerPro at mb power project on tiktok and twitter my instagram and twitter is at i'm andrew z and sima where can people find you i also want to say kelly this is the uh i bought this like when it first came out but like i learned so many lifting foundations from this book man like creating torsion the reason why i keep my face calm through everything jujitsu lifting all that shit is because they're no pain phase from this book. I was like, why the fuck am I doing this when I squat? That's why. So I appreciate you, man.

Thank you for everything. I had Tzima Inning on Instagram and YouTube. I had Tzima Yinning on TikTok and Twitter. Ben, Kelly, where can people find you guys? Knees over toes guy and make sure you learn how to floss from this guy. Amen. Among other things. We are at the ready state. If you want to hear my crazy brain all the time.

Thank you so much for your time today, Kelly. I really appreciate it. Good to see you guys. Ben, I do love you a ton, but this guy, I've got to know for a long time. So I love you. I appreciate you. I look up to you. And thanks for coming in today.

I appreciate it. Always fun to hang out with family. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you all later.