Mark Bell's Power Project - “Natty or Not’s” Helpful or Hurtful? Response to Greg Doucette & Zack Telander || MBPP Ep. 812

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about Greg Doucette and Zack Telander making videos about the episode with Mike O'Hearn and bring up the question, are all these Natty or Not videos helpful or hurtful to the fitness industry? Watch Greg's video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f2qquQYDpw&t=354s Watch Zac's video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NfrolTWb3U&t=101s Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://www.naboso.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 15% off! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code: POWERVIVO20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 00:00 - 00:19 Intro 00:20 - 01:15 Marek Health 01:16 - 04:28 Greg Doucette is saving Kid’s Self Esteem? 04:29 - 06:51 Is everyone lying about PED use? Does everyone have equal skill? 06:52 - 08:32 The POWER of your Expectations 08:33 - 10:43 Does Greg Doucette LOWER the expectations of Athletes? 10:44 - 13:57 Mark Bell sets UNREALISTIC Goals.  13:58 - 17:41 The POWER of unrealistic expectations for young kids 17:42 - 21:30 There should be no “LIMIT” to what you can do 21:31 - 25:20 Mark’s experience with PEDs when he was YOUNGER 25:21 - 28:28 The BENEFIT of setting “Unrealistic” GOALS 28:29 - 31:28 Greg Doucette set CRAZY GOALS for himself 31:29 - 37:23 Anyone over 220 with abs is probably on PEDS? 37:24 - 39:32 High performance HABITS  39:33 - 43:58 John Cena’s Natural Status and Ability 43:59 - 48:00 Why Nsima Believes Mike O’Hearn is Natural 48:01 - 50:00 Nsima vs. Simeon Panda  50:01 - 57:33 Greg’s Video Doucette Video 57:34 - 1:01:28 Greg saying it’s Factual that Mike is on PED’s? 1:01:29 - 1:03:07 Why don’t these Fake Nattys get Drug tested. 1:03:08 - 1:04:27 Why we didn’t ask Mike if he was on PEDs? 1:04:28 - 1:07:12 WHY not take PED accusations as a compliment?  1:07:13 - 1:09:20 - Professional Athlete and PED use vs Bodybuilders 1:09:21 - 1:15:12 TRT SHOULD NOT the NORM for Fitness influencers 1:15:13 - 1:17:03 Mark Bell’s Physique BEFORE PED’S was BIG 1:17:04 - 1:22:11 Greg Doucette Speaks on Expectations and Genetic Limits 1:22:12 - 1:28:49 Greg’s approach vs. The Power Project Approach  1:28:50 - 1:30:16 BUY GREG’s COOKBOOK, and the Expectation Effect Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject  ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok  FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en  Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

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That's M-A-R-E-K health dot com slash power project. You guys will see the power project panel. And when you guys check out, use promo code power project to save $101 off the entire panel. Links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. Really gets me. Yeah. Doing manual labor? No, no, no. Like you'll see. But yeah, we're rolling now. So go ahead. Go for it, Seema. Read that quote that you saw. You won't. Okay. So there's a lot of interesting comments in the Greg Doucette video.

No way. Yeah, there's a lot. But one of these comments is from this guy, Alex Flores, and it said, this is what these kids that are starting to lift need to hear. My son thought all these guys and some kids that are fitness influencers were natural. I had to explain that wasn't the case. And most of the people he compares himself to are on performance enhancing drugs. So thanks for saving our kids' self-esteem. And we're going to get into a lot of different stuff on this episode. I think Greg had a lot

of interesting points on his podcast. But overall, I think back to when I was a teenager starting lifting. There wasn't YouTube. There wasn't social media. And I had individuals that were fitness influencers that I was like, at least at the time, that I was like, I want to look like that. I never wanted to look like a Phil Heath or Ronnie Coleman. I knew that that was drug abuse. But I wanted to look like Greg Plitt was one of my favorite people right and if you look at pictures of greg plitt there's going to be you know so many people who are like oh greg's

definitely on some hrt or trt but for me at the time i was like i truly believe i can do that and i was much smaller but i believed that if i train long enough that I can achieve that or even better. Yeah, he had abs on top of abs, deeply etched in there. It looks incredible. There are pictures where he looks way crazier. But the thing is, is we've learned from so many people. And if there's a book that I think anybody should get, it's called The Expectation Effect. And it pretty much, the summary of that book is that

the expectations that you hold of yourself with whatever you're doing and then your belief systems, whether – if you expect you're going to be able to do something and believe you can, you're going to head in that direction. But if you already expect that what you're going – that going towards that, you're not going to be able to and it's already impossible and you can't do it, well, you won't be able to do it. I'm not telling you that if you believe you can look like Phil Heath, you will look like Phil Heath. That's not what I'm saying. I am saying that if you dampen your expectations and you lower what you believe you can achieve, you're going to get right there to what you expect. And all I want people to do is increase their expectations. It's a powerful thing. Spoken word. Just talking about what you think you're going to be people to do is increase their expectations. It's a powerful thing. Spoken word, you know, just talking about what you think you're going to be able to do.

Those who can't probably won't. Those who think they can will at least have a shot, you know. So I kind of just like to kind of think along the lines of like how is this helpful? How is this helpful for me to have a negative kind of thought process around this? The interesting thing about that comment, and first of all, props to the dad that wrote that in because we need more parents, more involved in what their children do. So that's awesome that this guy probably has good interaction with his son on lifting. Maybe he even taught him a little bit about like, that's amazing. That's incredible. That's some really class act, uh, high level parenting right there. But, uh, what he also

mentioned is he said, my son, you know, some of the people that he might be comparing himself to might be on performance enhancing drugs. So it's not all. So that's interesting because which ones maybe potentially aren't, uh, and what do they look like and what are those possibilities? That's kind of the thing I've been looking at a lot is like is everyone lying? Like not everyone's lying. Like, you know, there's some of these guys got to be drug free around here, right? I know that people want to pretend, you know, that these high level athletes, professional athletes and stuff that everyone across the board is on shit and that they've been on stuff for really long periods of time.

And they, they got an excuse for everything. But I think really all that is is I think all it is is excuses. What happens with somebody when they double down on something and they put a ton of time and effort in the other, the other side of this coin too, is the fact that for some reason, when it comes to certain other attributes that someone might have, let's say dancing,

or let's say playing the piano. You take a group of a hundred people and you have them dance. There could be a handful of people. There could be, there could be like five, six people that could dance probably at a really high level to where you're like, holy crap, that's incredible. That looks amazing. There could be five people out of a hundred that could play the piano pretty damn good. There's going to be a couple people in there that probably never really even played the piano before in their life, or maybe just had a small amount of lessons. Like one person that plays it really, really well may have only played it for a couple months, while the other person may have played it for 10 years. And same with the dance, the person,

the couple people in the group of a hundred that could dance well, there might be somebody that was actually a dance instructor, but is it possible for somebody that's been doing it for one month to instinctually to natty, to be natty, to have this natural flow to their body because of stuff they seen when they were young or some sort of genetic potential, or maybe they can hear the beats a little differently than everybody. Fuck yeah, there is. There's massive, we have gigantic differences between us when it comes to not only just our genetics but what we're exposed to when we're young. Also, by the way, in this book, The Expectation Effect, there is this study and I hope I don't butcher it. I will partially butcher it. But it kind of falls in line with what you mentioned right there. They took a group of people to test their VO2 maxes and they told them that – they randomized it and told a certain group in there that you have this gene that has a better propensity to have a higher VO2 max, randomized.

The people that they told those two all had better results on the VO2 max test than the people that I think they mentioned that you don't have the gene, right? All those people didn't perform nearly as well. And the way they did their experiment was really well. I know I butchered it, but the thing is, is the people that expected that they would have, they had the gene with a high VO2 max, had better results on their VO2 max test because they thought they had some type of advantage. So what I'm getting at here is that, you know, I think Zach to land or also made a video going over why the natty or knots are important. And I do think they're important because when I was younger, there wasn't social media, there wasn't Instagram, there wasn't

YouTube. And there wasn't people talking about how, you know, you'd see bodybuilders, like huge fucking bodybuilders where you're like, you're definitely on something. But it'd just be like, oh, it's my whey protein. It's my fat loss burning supplement. Using Eno Explode. Oh, yeah. Get you the best pumps. You'd see a lot of that.

And the marketing was dirty because you look back on that now, it's like, okay, you're definitely on a lot of sauce. It's not the whey protein that got you that big. So there's need to show that. But on the flip side of this, there's like, there's a, like the people that Greg makes videos about are the people where it's speculative that they could be natural. Like I think he made a video on Uzoma Obulor. There's Nick Bear, Shannon Sharp, and all the people that he makes videos on aren't the people where it's

obvious that they're natural. They look really fucking good, but it's not, I mean, it's not obvious that there are drugs. So they look really good, but they don't look, you know, IFBB-ish. But because they're a certain size or because they have a certain amount of leanness, they're not natty. They're at least on some HRT. They're at least on some of this. And the thing that that does, even though it's done to try to help people set more realistic expectations, the thing that it does is it lowers their expectations for what is naturally possible for them. I've seen multiple times where Mike, not Mike, but Greg has said, and other influencers, this guy Vitruvian Physique, I think Vitruvian Physique made a video of like,

these are some good natural physiques to look up to. And Vitruvian Physique was one of them. But Greg has mentioned this guy, Jesse James West and Jesse James West looks good. Don't get me wrong. But if I can think back to my expectations when I was younger, I would look at Jesse James West and be like, that's cool. But I want to, that's not my goal. And I'm not saying that everyone needs to have these lofty goals of what they want to look like or whatever. But my goal was the guy who looked exceptional. And again, I'm not saying that needs to be everyone's goal. But I think that what happens with this shit is it lowers people's expectations on what they can do.

They'll set more realistic goals. And if we know anything about being realistic, it's being realistic is something that everyone can do. I'd rather be more unrealistic. Yeah. And set your sights on something big. But give myself a long time to achieve that. You know what I mean? Not trying to do something in the year, do something in 10 years. Yeah. When I was a kid, I had a dream like uh that i wanted to like live in a castle someday you know i wanted to be rich i don't know why i just thought that way since i was a kid it's wonderful it's wonderful to have dreams i i knew for sure i'm gonna be an nfl football player tell that story about the guys in the car man oh yeah yeah yeah so uh yeah so i was in in in a a car with a bunch of my football friends.

We're in this like shitty beat up car in high school. And we're just kind of like driving down the road and we're talking about like what we're going to do after high school. It's our senior year. And I think I mentioned I was like, yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do. I was like, I struggle so much in school. I don't think it's not for me, but maybe I'll do like a junior college. Maybe I could like bide my time or find something I'm interested in at a JC or something and then figure out like a job from there, you know, and figure out. But I said,

I do know that I want to like make a lot of money. I don't know why, but I'm attracted to trying to figure out like how to really make a lot for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe because my dad's an accountant. I don't know. And my friend at the time, he's my best friend, and we severed ties pretty much after that day. He was like, you're not going to be able to make any money. He's like, what are you going to do? Which might be realistic. It's a valid question. What am I going to do? I don't have good grades. I don't seem to be on a path of like, I don't a trade I don't have a skill set so he's not wrong necessarily unless I was lucky enough to be a

professional athlete or something what the fuck am I going to do so I was just like well fuck that you know that's I'm not like I'm not letting him talk to me that way so I was like I was like I don't know exactly I don't know how I'm going to figure it out but I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to make more money than everybody in this car combined.

And I just knew that was going to be, I knew my future was going to be something along those lines because I was always attracted to that. It was something that became like a belief system for me. So even through football and even through pro wrestling and even through the ups and downs of all that, I'm like, well, it's still going to work out because I'm still interested in figuring out a way to make money, figuring out a way to monetize something. I didn't know that I was going to monetize the skill set that I had for so long because I didn't even recognize it was a skill set until I was older. And when I started competing and when I rose higher and higher through powerlifting,

then I was like, oh, this is the skill set. This is the annoying ex-girlfriend that I was always trying to get rid of, which is powerlifting. And I didn't want anything to do with it. I was chasing after other stuff, but it always kind of kept coming back, kind of nagging me.

And then eventually things sort of worked out the way that they did. But I think it's a, I think it's good to have big dreams and SEMA wanted to be a soccer player. Pro soccer player. That was the goal. Yeah. I remember Sina, John Sina telling me like,

there's actually like a documentary on John Sina. And because, uh, you know, he was like five or six when he said it. And he's also from Baston. He's from Massachusetts and so he would tell his dad I want to be a rock star I want to be a rock star and he basically

is a fucking rock star he's okay different version of a rock star but the motherfucker's a rock star yeah I would definitely like how you said being unrealistic because like what is realistic for somebody to make a living like work a job that they don't really love 40 hours a week or is it unrealistic to be on a podcast every day like and make a living that way obviously one's very realistic and one's very unrealistic so i'll lean into the unrealistic shit andrew you can't just sit there and take photos every day what do you think you're gonna be some great photographer someday. What are you doing?

Yeah. Your pictures aren't even that good. Like be realistic with it, which I've heard. Pictures of cars fucking spinning around, smoking their tires. Yeah. Yeah. Who cares about that? Yeah. No.

And, and, you know, so, but going back to like what you were saying to open the show and SEMA, I wish I had more of your, um, I wish I had completely your, your whole mindset because my mom's mindset. So your mom's mindset. Yeah. Um, keep in mind, she beat his ass.

She beat my ass, but keep, keep, keep, I mean, I could have, I could have like, you know,

it would have been good for me to have your mom beat my ass because like when it came to fitness and stuff, um, like, you know, I didn't talk about it with my parents cause it just wasn't a thing, but we were into sports. Mm hmm. So when I was a teenager, Mark McGuire sentire sent me so so all that shit was happening so in my

mind as a young you know uh sponge it was like oh to be a to be the greatest year you got to be on the stuff yeah so then i was just like damn was ken griffey on steroid too he probably was and it's like fuck bar, Barry Bonds. Like, well, he's never been, you know, tested. He's never been caught. I'm like, ah. And then so like you have that thought process. So then it's like anybody with a good physique, it's just like, oh, you're on TV.

He's probably on stuff. So like I had the opposite, right? I have what's kind of what we see today. I have what's kind of what we see today and I wish I didn't have it because I set up those, I'll call them now unrealistic expectations of not being able to obtain a good physique without PEDs. Like now I think that's more unrealistic than the opposite, which I know sounds fucking stupid because we're in that, but I just think it is so dumb to not be like, not have that mindset of like, Oh wait, I can build a really good physique without stuff you know now it's like the opposite now it's like i can't unless i do yeah um and again and i understand you know about like okay don't don't buy their supplement thinking you're gonna look

like these people or whatever and like putting out information because you want to protect people and stuff but yeah you know i I just, I, I, and I'll bring them up because that's who we're talking about. But when Michael Hearn was saying like, Oh, I didn't think I can be as good as the guys around me. I thought I could be better than them. Like that's another unrealistic, real unrealistic expectation. And I think that's great. That's so good. You know,

like I'm going to tell my son that like he could be better than everybody we come across you know and it's like why would i tell him like you got to be realistic um are you know like we probably like look at me look at your grandfather like we don't look like them so there's probably a good chance that you're not gonna look like them either like but what if you don't do yeah what if you don't do what they did dude that's what i mean other shit i'm like like no it's the opposite i'm like dude you you started doing shit from the womb you know like i mean shit started uh you know having good habits like from day one like so now imagine you know kind of like when i was telling owen today like owen was you know saying like oh i might have a path just like andrews i'm like dude you're already way ahead of where i started

you know because he's developing these really good habits and And he's, by the time he's my age, he's going to be freaking jacked. But, you know, for my son, it's like, it would be so dumb for me to be like, let's be realistic here. You're probably going to look, you know, a little bit less than this guy. It's like, no, like, dude, and like, that's what a terrible way to, you know, put, put what a terrible thing to put in his head. You know, there's, there's two things and we're going to get to the Greg video. Cause there's a, there's a lot of things we want to talk about from it, guys. But the first thing is with this comment that I read from this father, you know, he's trying

to protect his son from setting unrealistic expectations for himself or his daughter. I don't know if he said son or daughter. But it reminded me of something that one of my very good friends, his father told his son. His son, who was maybe 17 or 18 at the time, wanted to start his own business as an entrepreneur. He wanted to do some stuff with social media and build something. And at that time, I already had a decent following. I think I was like 24 or 25. So I was doing coaching full-time online. I had a decent social media following and that's

how I was getting things out there. And he said, hey, but look at what Nsema's doing. And the dad said, well, that's cool for Nsema it's possible for Encima, but that's not – he literally said that is not possible for you. And when I was told that, I was like, fuck, man. Fuck. Because when I was younger, my mom had this – my mom's an immigrant and she'd always hear the saying – we talked about this before. She'd always hear the saying, the sky's the limit. And when she heard that, literally, I remember her telling me this every week all the time. The sky's not the limit.

She hated the saying, the sky's the limit, because she said, there's nothing you cannot do. As long as you put the work in and you believe you can do it, there's literally nothing you can't do. That's why I have fucking limit on my hand tattooed with a line through it, because I don't put limits on the shit that I can do. But that was drilled into me from childhood. My mom never looked at other people and said, oh, and Seema, they're doing that, but you can't. She would just say, hey, look at that, figure out the work you need to do to do that because she's an immigrant and work is what we're good at. And she was like, you can do that if you work for it i never had the shit in my mind of realistic shit you know what i mean and i get the protection aspect of it and you want to

save people from getting their hopes up and getting dashed but dog that is that is damaging long term yeah that's what that's the only thing i want people to try to get out of that shit have higher belief systems set unrealistic goals and have higher expectations. Who did Arnold Schwarzenegger inspire? Everybody. Literally everybody. I think everybody, even the long ass time ago,

probably assume that he used performance enhancing drugs even before they were really like talked about that much i think i think there was a point where they weren't talked about a lot they weren't even illegal for many years um they weren't well they weren't a scheduled three drug for a long time people always talk about kids and like protecting their kids but like i know a lot of people that are parents and they just stick their kid in the corner of the room with a fucking tablet it's like they're letting their kids consume stuff they're not communicating with them this guy that wrote in i think again that's a wonderful

thing to highlight is that he's actually communicating with his child you know sometimes you hear stuff on the news and you're like you're just like trying to unwind this thing that you heard. You're like, how in the hell did that happen to that kid? Like, where in the fuck were the parents? Like, how are they not involved? So a lot of times people aren't communicating in the household. concern that came up with a nephew, with a niece, with a, with your own son, you know, if this is a thing that comes up, have some open dialogue about it. I think, you know, it's a people's, I think they think that you take performance enhancing drugs and that you just get launched

into the, you know, into the stratosphere. For myself, it was something that I was interested in from a very, very young age. I remember reading about it when I was like 15, 16. And I remember just being like, wow, this stuff can, keep in mind, everything I'm consuming is about being stronger and having more muscle mass. So now I read about this. I'm like, read about this. I'm reading about creatine and stuff too, because creatine was kind of new at the time. And I'm getting super excited. I'm like,

man, if I can afford some creatine, that would be great. Man, they're talking about these protein powders. I don't know if I eat enough. What the fuck is protein? Okay, I need to eat more chicken, because I didn't know anything. I need to eat more chicken you know because I didn't know anything need to eat more eggs all right noted right I start reading about steroids and it blew my mind I'm like this is incredible and it would in some of the magazines it would tell you like what the steroid was it had like a profile how old were you bro uh probably 15 and I would like fold the magazine over a little bit. I'm like, I'm going to read this like a little bit more later. It was almost like I was on someone's Tinder profile, checking these different ones out that I could pick from.

But I was- Out of our trend. Yeah, I was just getting aroused. It was amazing. But, you know, you would look at the profile of it and it would talk about how toxic it may be or not, or not be. Um, and you, you just, I would learn a lot about it, but I'm like, gain muscle, uh, and be stronger.

And some of these athletes are even taking it to be faster, like bigger, faster, stronger. I'm like, well, how do you do this? Like, this is awesome. And then I started reading some stuff from Bill Phillips and from other people were like, if you're a teenager, this is a don't mess with this. And if you're new to lifting, don't, there's no reason to mess with it. When you first start lifting, because everything's new to you, you're going to make a tremendous amount of progress. It's not even anything that's needed. And so I was like, oh, okay, that's, that's cool. So I remember going to the gym as a kid

and one week I would be deadlifting 365, maybe a week or two later, 385, a week or two later, 405. And I remember the older guys in the gym, they're like, dude, you're getting fucking big. Like what's going on? Like just consistent you know and they're like yeah like once you've been doing this for a while like that can run out however what if what if you really dedicate it you dedicate yourself to it and what if you're getting your sleep and what if you're taking your michael hearn naps what if you're getting in the protein every day what if you're eating you know in in a way that uh matches up with all the goals that you have? Can you continue to get bigger?

Is there somebody out there? Hello, is there somebody out there? Can somebody be 300 pounds and 10% body fat? Can someone be 270 and 10% body fat and be natural? I don't want to say that they can't be because look at all the things that people have done over the years uh the four minute mile is always something that people always talk about jamal browner just deadlifted 1100 and with with well straps sumo deadlift doesn't matter it was sumo and straps though 1100 pounds man people are gonna say well he like he's on juice

he probably had that bar that bends the bendy bar people are doing at the top it was more like what like 300 i'm joking fuck yeah no that's amazing shit man that's amazing but we put limitations on people before we've done it with different sexes we've done it with different races turns out it doesn't work time and time and time and time again and we used to say this about this particular community or these particular people we found out that that's just a wonderful way to have things blow up right in your face those blacks can't play football a black quarterback oh yeah williams what's it feel like to be the first black quarterback to win a super bowl i'm not if he was just like fuck y'all what do you mean you know like this is fucking weird yeah fucking weird ass question oh so but

in regards to because i have a uh a comment when you were talking about like the body fat percentages and stuff and weight but like what you were saying, it seemed about like setting like, uh, like a crazy, like unrealistic goal. And then like, you don't want to let someone down, but like, what if you did set that goal and you did miss, but you didn't set the way lower goal of what was realistic, right? Like you would still put yourself, even though you missed that crazy, unrealistic goal, you still surpass what everyone else would say is realistic you probably still you've probably surpassed what you would have been able to correct because like think about this think about how so many kids so many young basketball players were inspired by alan iverson look at the ridiculous

shit alan iverson did um you know that guy, what's his name? White guy who's the professor. He was massively inspired by AI and he wanted to make it to the NBA. And he built up those handles. And he's small, but he didn't make it to the NBA. But he got to the and one mixtape and all that. And he has millions of followers on social media. And a lot of guys look up to him. Did he get as good as AI at basketball?

No. What about Ben the Bounce? What's our excuse for him being a million times faster than us? media and a lot of guys look up to him did he get as good as ai at basketball no did he get ben the bounce what's our excuse for him being a million times faster than us you know and him being able to fucking jump crazy uh our boy isaiah that's coming in soon that can smash his own face on the rim it's like kiss the rim bro it's it's nuts like are we just are we gonna chalk everything up all the time to be like i bet she's he's running some Winstroll or whatever drug we can – well, if he's not on that, he's probably on a little bit of growth hormone. And dude, though, like because I see these comments too where – and we got to get to the Greg video. But the comments of people who are like –

We're never getting there. We will. Where people are saying – you're setting up unrealistic expectations and people are doing so much and they get into a depression when they don't get there. They don't reach that goal. Well, number one, yeah, there is a danger in comparing yourself to how somebody else looks. When I was young and I was looking up to Greg Plitt and I was like, I want a physique like that or something better. Maybe there was a weird, delusional, unhealthy aspect to it. But I mean, I think that as you're heading there, you'll be able to better assess what you can do.

And it's much better to head towards a high expectation and get either close or surpass it. You know, it's much better than setting low expectations for yourself and getting to those low goals. I don't know. And how many people have, like Greg, has 1.6 million followers on social media, came into the fitness game when all these, like Chris Jones and Matt Ogis and all these other cats

had way bigger followings than Greg, but made video after video after video and shit caught on. And now he's surpassed all of them. That's not a very realistic thing. There are a lot of guys that are looking up to Greg that are like, I want to be able to do that. That's not a very realistic goal. But Greg's, if you see how long that man has been making content on YouTube, he's been making content for a very long time. His early videos were not that great, but he caught some, he figured out what he needed to do to catch attention. He course corrected. He probably had a lot of failures. A lot of times where, I mean, a lot of scandals that took him out of it, but he came back, he course corrected through failures, but didn't stop and look at where he is now right that is something

to pay attention to because what he's doing is not realistic at all but the work he put in well with greg doucette like um greg doucette has talked before about his own genetics he feels like he has good genetics yeah and he did well in bodybuilding natural bodybuilding before too yeah and he looked amazing as a natural athlete um he's very strong i've seen him do some pretty crazy stuff especially as it pertains to bench pressing and deadlifting i believe yeah 405 for 50 something like yeah yeah he's a he's an animal he really is uh i admire him a lot he's doing a lot of really cool things he's done a lot of really cool things. He's done a lot of really cool things. And now he's doing cycling. And I'm sure he kicks some ass in that. Like if we tried to hang with him on that, it would be a nightmare probably. He's doing some really great things. Five pounds bigger than him just naturally. Is it possible for someone to be 10 pounds bigger than him naturally? Is it possible for somebody to bench press 75 more pounds even though he benched like 500 naturally?

I think it is. I think it is. I think we should be open to the possibility. Now, I know sometimes when we drift around and we talk about these different things this way, people are like, yes, but Mike O'Hearn is still on tons of training. He works hard, but there's still PEDs involved. He looks great for being 50-something, but he's still on PEDs. And we're not going to – there's no reason for us to lie to you here on the Power Project, but when we helped him with his bags, that 50 ml thing of testosterone that fell out

of his bag, we were like, okay, shit. We quickly put it back inside his bag and didn't say anything and sent him on his way. I think I saw some duck eggs in there too, dude. No. But hey, I mean, fuck it. It's whatever. It increases testosterone. Yeah.

I messed with him a little bit and I just took all the labels off of everything. So good luck. Hopefully he gets it figured out. He just takes everything in one big giant shot anyway. All right. Well, I did want to read another comment. At the nine minute or nine minutes in, Mark is talking about people accusing guys of roids and it's mostly kids.

Mark, I've heard you say that if anyone is 220 pounds with abs, they're probably on gear. Well, that's Mike. And then I wanted to read the the comments down below because i thought it was funny and he's in his 50s ha ha ha except mike is like 260 to 270 pounds how much does mike even weigh i mean shredded i don't know mike is by 245 250 right now right now i think he's in the i think he's in the 230s right now. Yeah, when he came here, he was fasted for multiple days. He's in the 230s.

Anyway, let me clear some of that up. I actually read that in a book a long time ago, and I will try to figure out what book I read that in. But it basically said human beings are not necessarily – sometimes it's weird when you get into like ancestral stuff. But I agree with some of the stuff I've heard Peter, ITIA, and maybe some other people talk about how the body doesn't really want to hold on to like crazy amounts of muscle mass. We have to, we have to give it a signal. A lot of times we have to continually tell it like, this is what

we want to do. And as soon as the, the body has an opportunity to break some of that down and turn you into weighing less, it wants to actually do that because, again, I don't think lugging around being 250, 260 pounds, I don't think is efficient from an evolutionary standpoint. But what I said years ago was not necessarily abs because abs doesn't really mean that you're even all that lean, not necessarily abs because abs doesn't really mean that you're even all that lean, although you're probably getting pretty lean, under 10% and over 220 pounds is where I said, you can kind of have a red flag and be like, I wonder, I wonder what this guy's that's where if you care that much about this shit,

you can go and kind of dig through and try to sift through and figure out what can throw that off sometimes is somebody's height but look you know it's not easy for somebody to be single digit body fat and to be over 240 pounds and sema um how much do you weigh i'm 252 bro and the last time we got your dexa scan what was your body fat percentage uh well i was 243 at the time my body fat percentage was sudden how long have you been on performance enhancing just tell us this will be a really good video a lot of views if we can just get you to admit it you know what actually don't say it i'll just write it on the piece of paper and slide it over to me i swear i won't share it with anybody oh man dog that's just so funny because

i i remember i remember when you said that a long time ago i was just like would you kind of agree that like that that could be like once somebody starts to get into that category that's where it's it could be a little questionable or no i mean this thing it could be questionable i totally understand why for example could be questionable. I totally understand why, for example, people think I am. I totally understand why people think certain people are. But... You think it's just easier for people just to be like, yeah, he's probably on stuff? Absolutely.

So that way I don't have to... No, no, no. I mean, it's not like someone's going to quit necessarily. But I need an explanation for this. Yeah. No, absolutely. necessarily but i need an explanation for this yeah no absolutely um the thing is i want to kind of reference how again when i was younger dude that wasn't the equation like there wasn't so many videos talking about this stuff i never had that idea that i couldn't like my goal was

never to be 250 or whatever my goal was just to eat gain size and be the biggest guy in the soccer field when i played soccer even while running around all the time i was 215 when i got injured and i had to stop playing and i just did weights i slowly got up to 230 240 250 at my peak i was 265 higher body fat probably 14 body fat but i'd already been lifting since i was 13 i was already a soccer player since i was six but i never was like i'm gonna get to 180 by the end of the i also have never said that it's not possible i just said that like that's where you might want to be like i wonder curious you know when when you ask me though like is that uh is is that questionable i think yeah it's questionable it absolutely is but when i look at it as an individual i'm not thinking for

example simian panda actually i have a picture on my instagram when i first met him when i was 23 and when i took a picture with him like I'm like, you're not that much. Actually, you're not bigger than me, right? That was super motivating for me. But it wasn't, I was never like, oh, Simeon's on drugs. When I saw his pictures on social media. Your head was down.

You were just focused in on what you were doing. And then one day you were like, oh my God, I'm like big, bigger. And sometimes a similar size to some of these people I've looked up to. Yes. And also when I look, the thing is, is when I look at people, when I looked at people in fitness or when I was paying attention to soccer and I'd look at people play, my immediate thing wasn't to be why, why what they're doing or what they have is impossible for me to have.

Again, I thank my mom for setting up my mindset when I was a kid, because whenever I look at people who are doing things that I want or have abilities I want to have, my immediate thought isn't the advantage that I think that they could have that I don't have. My immediate thought is trying to figure out the habits

or the routines that I can set up in my daily life to have an aspect of that or potentially all of it, which is why what you do so cool because we bring around high performers all the time and dissect their daily habits. Kador comes in, shows his positions. I start doing those positions every day and build it into my daily habits. And then notice when I'm doing jujitsu, I'm getting into those positions with no bodily inhibition because I picked up a habit. And all these people that we see, they all say the same thing. I started doing this years ago.

I stuck with it. And now, you know, I've altered it. I changed. I actually hurt myself a couple of times. I kept kind of maneuvering. And now I kind of have this system that I do. And I do this every day. Cador moves around a lot.

Remember when he came in, he was like, he's like, I wanted to tell you guys ahead of time. Like, I don't think I have it today. He's like, but I told myself, no, like just go in and see what you can do. And then he's up there, you know, kicking the rack and kicking, uh, while you're holding something, standing on top of a chair. And he did all kinds of crazy stuff. Remember he fucking, uh, what did he jumped? Oh, he jumped sideways off that box. Remember that? That was really cool.

That was landed like Spider-Man? Yeah. Yeah. I still don't even, I can't even like picture it right now in my head because I remember just being like, that was not real. I just remember him running, not like top speed, but running really fast directly at that box. Yeah.

Jumping and then just like clamping onto it with his feet and then stopping. He's not, and he's not 25 years old. Right. He's like 40 something, right? I mean, it's unbelievable. And again, I think we've talked about on this show before, attach yourself to some disciplines, attach yourself to some habits and see what the fuck happens to you. Go and challenge yourself.

People always think CrossFitters are on gear. If anyone's ever really trained with a CrossFitter, hopefully you're not getting like completely annihilated and overtraining. But if you train CrossFit for like a week, you're going to feel, you're going to like understand. You're going to go, oh, I, I, I get it. I can see how those guys could be, or girls could be built that way. Cause it like rips you from the inside out, but it's so metabolically demanding and there's heavy weights involved in it.

It's unbelievable what something like that can do for you. So I think it's easy just to be like, yep, these people are definitely on it. You know, there's, there's no question. And it's, it's easier for you just to kind of have that conjecture. But again, I always point to John Cena because, you know, there's, there's different people, um, in fitness. Most of the people in fitness, I would say like the, a lot of the fake natties in fitness um i don't really personally care whether they do stuff or not it's and it's really hard to tell and i don't know like i don't know these people but i do know john and just because i know him doesn't mean that i know for sure that he's natural but the guy is mutated like he's a mutant his feet are gigantic his his feet

are like these giant flat pancakes they're like the size of this fucking table like they're weird it's a big pancake everything's weird he's got a giant head he's got a big giant chin and jaw he looks like a movie star before he ever even was famous like when i first met him like who is this guy like what does this go what is this going on and everybody around the same way his hands are fucking gigantic. I mean, if you type in John Cena's hands. Yeah, they're huge. There's like, it's a whole thing. His hands are like gigantic.

His wrist is gigantic. So there are people that just have different genetics. I think I had pretty good genetics to lift fairly heavy. Because I remember, even with a small amount of lifting I remember my friends they couldn't they I don't know doing benching the bar was weird for them then we put fives on and they would kind of squirm and a couple of them could do a 10 on each side I remember putting on a 25 on each side and doing it very easily in my in my basement I was like hmm hmm, that's interesting. I wonder why they can't do that. And then I was able to do like 155 or something like that on that day. And they were blown away. They were like, what the fuck? Like, that's crazy.

And then didn't you say that John Cena's wristbands, they're like something different? Yeah, the thing that he wears on his arms when he's wrestling is a headband. Oh, that's what it was. Okay. See if I can find that. Pat Rodger, family. How's it going?

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starts vibrating around your head and it doesn't wake up the entire household the way my phone used to do back in the day. So now I just kind of have the bed wake me up silently. And it's amazing. You guys got to head over to eight sleep.com slash power project. That's E I G H T sleep.com slash power project. When you guys go there, you'll see a banner across the top saying that you're going to receive $150 off automatically. So again, that's eight sleep.com slash power project to receive $150 off your pod pro cover or your pod pro cover and mattress combo links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Let's get back to the podcast. Also. Okay. So Mark, I, you know what I, I understand what you're

saying about John, right? Um, but even, even that stuff, that's where like my mind just does fucking Kung Fu when I hear shit like that. It's like, I, you, you see how big his hands are. His wrists are fucking gigantic.

You can just tell, like, doesn't he just look different? If you analyze that picture, he just looks different. You're like his elbows. Yeah. Yeah.

You, you look at all that, right? Um, but there's, there's two, there's two different ways of looking at that on It's been on growth hormone his whole life. Yeah, there's that.

There's saying, oh, he's gifted. He has these gifts that allow him to do what he does. That's why I can't do that. People will take that and then they'll – not that – okay. So during the podcast with Mike, I said people won't try. Yeah, they'll try and they'll go towards things. Mike, I said, you know, people won't try. Yeah, they'll, they'll try and they'll go towards things. But if they like John Cena or like a certain person, what's going to be going on in their head is all the reasons why that's not possible for them. Well, John has these wrists that are

way bigger than mine. John has these joints that are just behemoth like I'll get, I'll, you know, I'll keep progressing, but there's no way I'm going to end up like that. There's already this, this, this setup limit to what you believe you can achieve because this person has different physical attributes than you have. And although we know that genetics are a thing, I'm not saying that – like that doesn't exist. I think it's – this is going to sound real fucking dumb. I can't wait. I'd rather be delusional. There's a lot of things that I believe that people

think is just fucking delusional and stupid. I believe Mike is natural. Why do I believe he's natural? Because I know that when I'm 50, I want to look as good, if not better than that. So it doesn't serve me to think he's done things. What serves me is looking at the things that he does, the things he's been doing, picking up those habits and doing that for multiple decades. Decades, not just doing it for a few years and seeing how I do. Doing the habits for decades, dog. I think it's better to have delusional aspirations and do delusional beliefs that are up here than realistic expectations that everyone can achieve that are down here. I sent you that picture with Simian Panda, by the way.

But we also can't, we can't know. We can't, we just, we're not ever going to have the information to know if someone's lying or not. Even if they do a test. So we can only speculate. That's all it is. It's all speculation. And you could, you know, I guess the biggest danger of all this is you could be wasting

your time. Uh, you know, if you're listening to this, just sitting on your ass, you could be wasting your time. Uh, instead you could be off that the head down concentrating on yourself and trying to make yourself better. Cause really that's what it's all about. It's about you trying to figure out how can you get the most out of yourself yeah and if you do that by being uninspired by somebody that might be a hit and that might be kind of a negative thinking that i'll never be him i'll never be her if i you know i so there's really you know i'm gonna try but i'm not gonna even bother with the heavy lifting and some of the stuff that i see o'hearn do because that's more for the steroid guys and the sets and reps and stuff that he does,

it's way too much. I'll never be able to handle that. There's no reason for me to eat that much protein because I'm not on testosterone and my body's not going to assimilate. I think that's where people go. I don't think they totally give up. They don't.

They totally quit. But they kind of halfway quit because they don't think that they're going to be able to do any of that. And then if you go into like David Goggins and some of these other people, it's like, well, what's your excuse for somebody like that? Like, again, are we just going to say, oh, he's probably on like modafinil. He's probably taking something for the mind, you know, so you can get that mindset real strong and real sharp. Or, you know, genetically, I bet he was kind of wired for that. Or he went through all those traumas in his life he had he was abusive an

abusive dad and he had all these different things going on in his life i'm i'm i can't ever be i can never run 100 miles i can never run 50 miles i can never do these things because i would have to have a life that was similar to his where i have those that scarring from all those years of the different shit that he had to go through i think that's what what people are kind of suffering from yeah he's so lucky he got abused and all that yeah but yeah musk or any of those people yeah and so that's what i was going to bring up it's like okay for us in the fitness realm it's you know dudes will be like i can't do that because he's on steroids or whatever i can't look like him because he's on steroids. Yeah. But like, I don't see it as any different as you're talking to like, you know, your aunt, uncle, or just somebody like kind of outside of like the regular gym goer.

That's like, I can't lose weight because, you know, John Cena or all these other actresses and actors. Well, they have chefs, they have money. That's all they do all day long. I can't do that all day long. They don't have families that they have to take care money they that's all they do all day long i can't do that all day long they don't have families that they have to take so what are they doing they're essentially doing the same thing as like oh they're not a natural human you know like they they don't they they don't have the same problems i do they they don't have the same time restrictions they make their money off of their looks therefore they, that's their job. So if it was my job, oh, I would get in shape.

But it's not my job. I have to take care of my family. I got to go to work. I don't have time nor the money to devote to making myself look like that. Then you find out there's a guy that's got four kids and he's shredded and you're like. Yeah, yeah. But that was back in 2015, by the way. Look at the hair yeah that's awesome

the drugs made my hair go wait by the way guys that was a fucking joke whenever i say everything i have to make sure i say right afterwards it's a joke yeah but i was 22 i think that's another thing that people don't recognize too is like I think a lot of people that are maybe in the limelight right now for some stuff, finally getting some like quote-unquote TV time, some YouTube time, some podcasting time, are people that were doing stuff for a really long time, for many, many, many years. You mentioned O'Hearn doing stuff for decades. You've been training for a long time. A lot of

people have been like working and working and working and working and then finally get recognized for some of that work that they were doing before social media, before anybody really saw any of the stuff. You know, now people have kind of more access to people, but there was a lot of stuff that was kind of like done in the dark, done in the dark. And now it's finally brought to light. And now people want to have speculation on how the hell somebody got there. Yeah. It's funny. Your arms look way bigger right here because the rest of your body isn't where it is right now.

What do you mean? Like your arm looks like very disproportioned, like in comparison to like your chest. Like right now, I would say your chest is way bigger. The rest of your body's yeah your whole frame is way bigger now to where like it caught up to this fucking gigantic arm so like in i'm having fun but like right in this picture you look more fake natty than you do now because everything's like because proportional yeah because like right here it just looks like you i don't know got on a cycle and just did bicep curls all day. That's fucking awesome. Yeah.

But yeah, you're not too much different. Want to play some of that clip from Doucette? Yeah. Talking about us having Michael Tran on the show? Yeah. Let me go. Let me find something. Hopefully I got the right timestamps.

All right. I just can't wait for him to say Arnold. What does that mean? Greg Doucette. I'm going to say specific names because there are guys like this where I watch their videos. I'm like, you're giving people information, but you're allowing people to believe things that's going to make them not push themselves. So Greg makes all these natty or not type videos where it makes young guys are like, oh, well, yeah, that guy's on drugs. That guy's on drugs.

That guy's on drugs. There's no wonder why I look the way I do. And so it's in his belief that by me saying a guy's a fake natty, that it's convincing other people not to try. How do you draw that conclusion? That makes no sense. Hey, guys, Michael Hearn is a fake natural. Oh, Greg said Mike's a fake natty. I'm not trading anymore.

I give up. How does it hurt for me to say if you use PDs, you're probably going to build muscle faster than if you're natural. I got real concerned over Greg Doucette's face staying in that shape forever. Because he's perpetually yelling this way all the time. And the neck muscles are building up quite a bit too. Very good. When he's in his hundreds and he dies, you'll just see his open casket. his hundreds by the way yeah greg's gonna live a long time he'll be like 200 that's gonna be his face in the casket just he was doing a natty or not and had a

you're not ready to expose the last fake natty i can't lean in i only want to train if I can put on 30 pounds like that fake daddy. Why would that make you stop? Listen, when in doubt. I mean, we kind of already explained, right? Yeah, we're good. Yeah. Always tell the truth.

If you're not sure if you should tell people if you're taking PDs or not, tell them. Be honest. It's always a smarter policy to tell the truth. So there's no reason for me to even try because I got to get on sauce to look like that. What's the point of him doing that? Well, they all do that. Yeah.

It gets, it gets views and engagement. That was good. You've heard it here and you hearing what I'm saying. And so he's saying when coach Greg calls out fake natties, Michael Hearn, Liverkin, Simeon Panda, and so on, that people are watching that and saying, why do I even bother training? If I can't look like that unless I'm taking PDs, then I'm just going to quit. Well, I'd rather you know the truth. I'd rather you get into the sport of bodybuilding, weightlifting, whatever, and have realistic goals and understand that, yeah, if you don't take PDs, you're probably not going to end up looking like Phil Heath.

You're probably not going to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. And so if that hurts you so much and it – Just the way he says Arnold's name just makes my fucking back of my neck just go – it's like there's a genetic thing inside. I'm just like, ooh. Make sure you bleep that the ancestors are like what's going on here i think greg does have uh i think he does have some good i think he does have some good points um i understand i think we all understand exactly what he's talking about this I think Greg does have, I think he does have some good, I think he does have some good points. I understand. I think we all understand exactly what he's talking about.

This, this whole thing is not an easy thing to navigate. It's like, you know, depending on which day you talk to us about it, we might have something slightly different to say, or depending on which person's being outed versus another. Again, I just think what's, what's helpful and useful for you to know about strength training, fitness, about being jacked and tan, and probably the most relevant things are the fact that you have to have consistency. And if you were to take performance enhancing drugs, it could speed some of that process up. It could potentially, you know, could potentially or elongate how long you have results for. I've seen a lot of people kind of talk about how you get pretty good results in the first,

and this is actually a pretty long period of time, but five to seven years is where you get a lot of results. And most people, if they think about it, they can attest to that and say, yeah, the first year was a little fuckery. Year two, three, I had a little bit more experience and so on. Sounds ridiculous talking about it now because that sounds like so many years, but that's how long some of this takes. Steroids could maybe push that up an additional three years. I'm not saying you're not going to ever make any progress after some of those said years, but that's where the bulk of most of your progress is going to come from.

And you will most likely, without drastic changes to everything that you're doing, you'll probably look a little similar to that. You know, I think people sometimes look at me now and they're like, wow, you look so different than you used to look but if you look back I sort of looked a little bit like this for a while for a pretty long time like there was like you know I didn't just go from 330 down to 230 it wasn't like out of nowhere this has been like a really long it's been a really long process so again I think the main thing to know is that if you're not going to build consistency and habits, and I also would say if you're not going to build consistency and habits and have those be your main focus rather than goals. I think goals are good, but I think sometimes they can be a mistake because sometimes the goals are noted without you setting a standard of the habits that you need to have.

You need to have habits that are probably fairly difficult or more difficult than maybe whatever it is you're currently doing. And the difficulty of those habits might simply be how many habits that you need to bring into effect and for how long. Because you might need like five really good habits to be a total savage in fitness. And we can also say maybe somebody with a little bit better potential or better genetics, maybe there's only three plates they have to spin. but that's okay. That ain't you. You might have to spin a couple extra plates more than somebody else. You know, I don't want to have

to be your mom, but maybe you're gifted somewhere else. You know, maybe you're really smart. Maybe you're great at remembering things. Maybe you're good at fucking painting. I don't know. But sometimes that's just the way life is. Sometimes you might have to work or at least you might perceive that you may have to work harder than somebody else to get the same result or to even sometimes get less results and even sometimes fucking lose to the person that you think doesn't work nearly as hard as you. That's just the way it goes sometimes. That's just the way it goes sometimes. I love it. He keeps saying, like the guy you just said, it's Greg Doucette. Michael Hearn, you're allowed to say my name.

We write in the DMs. We're cool. You're allowed to say Coach Greg, Greg Doucette. I disagree with you. But why wouldn't they go, I don't care if this guy did or didn't do it. I'm going to be better than him. And try to one-up instead of going negative, going, I'm phoning in. Forget it. They're all on it.

I'm out. Why do people do that? And so Mike does bring up a great point. He says, if you compare yourself to people up there who you think you could never be as good as, then you're going to stay down here. But if you think you can surpass them, then maybe one day you will. But here's the problem, Mike. You had these people who were up there.

They were the elite, the best of the best and what did you do you ended up taking pds you're not natural that's amazing so he in and later on in the video hopefully i could find it but he goes in and you know he he gives you props mark because you're're like, there's no way we could ever know. But I don't know. How do you guys, do you think it's responsible for him to just fact that he took PEDs, for him to say that? Well, the thing is, Zach Talander also used this kind of verbiage in his video. And we'll link Zach Talander's video in it, too. We'll link this one, yeah he had some cool things to say but he said you know yeah I think he also used the word that it's a fact that Mike is on steroids and I see it in the comments like it's a fact it's a fact this is speculation and we know I've done a blood I've done drug tests multiple times

where everything in my hormonal levels are perfectly natural. But – just because I cycled off. But putting this thing as saying it's a fact that this person is, people are going to believe him, especially people that love his content. And in their mind, it's now a fact that this guy, Michael O'Hearn, it's a drugged-up physique. So either you need to take drugs to get there or you just won't get there. And that's dangerous. I personally don't like that here's some of the dangerous part of it is like not only is michael hearn uh you know thrown into this mix now everybody else that looks anything like him is lumped into the same category yeah and every celebrity that gets in halfway decent shape for a role and so forth. And I understand,

you know, I understand like why he does it. It is a, I mean, we're sitting here talking about it. It's not a dull topic. I mean, my brother, you know, opened up a big can of worms with bigger, stronger, faster. And I think I kind of thought like, oh, that'll kind of end a lot of that. I think I kind of thought like, oh, that'll kind of end a lot of that. Certainly hasn't. You know, it's exploded even more. And it's actually weird, like way longer after the movie came out, this Natty or Not stuff, you know, started to pop off. But, you know, I think it does bring up a lot of interesting things like do you need to know, you know, do you need to know everything when you get into something? Do you need to know that if you want to be an actor, let's just say you want to be a

celebrity. Do you need to know that if you're going to be a celebrity, a lot of celebrities die young of, you know, they overdose on drugs. Is that, is that helpful? Like it might be helpful. Is it helpful to know a lot of musicians play their music high? Like it might be helpful uh is it helpful to know a lot of musicians play their music high like it might be useful because maybe that's a but it also might get you in it too early and you might be addicted to it it might be something that you maybe never maybe you never needed it but you heard that eminem did mushrooms so now you're on mushrooms or you heard that little wayne uh drank the purple drink and that he's wraps that way. And maybe that's the way he's able to flow a little bit better or something like that.

You know, so I don't know. It just brings up a lot of interesting conversations in the NBA, in the NFL, probably not in Major League Baseball. probably not in Major League Baseball, but in those two sports, they really work closely with the rookie athletes, letting them know what it's going to be like to be famous and what it's going to be like to have this amount of money in your bank. They talk to them about all kinds of stuff. They talk to them about everything from their finances to females to all that stuff, going out at night, all these different things that might happen to them.

And I think they're trying to give them an idea of like what this career might look like. And so maybe in this case, maybe that's kind of what Greg feels like he's doing with the fitness community, trying to like, hey, here's what it's like from my perspective. And maybe he's off. I don't know perspective and maybe he's off i don't know but maybe he maybe that's kind of the way that he feels yeah and then he so he goes on in this video to say like right a drug test won't prove anything like if it comes up fairly natural he's like but if that drug test comes back and it looks like you're very very much on stuff he's like that's what it can prove so i don't understand

why he would still recommend like it's a win it either way like what you just said right there is a win for his opinion because because this is the thing it's like again mike will do a drug test i know many naturals who have done drug tests right but it doesn't matter because the belief of the it's the belief of the audience i did this drug test and everything's cool oh are you cycled off like it and if they if it comes back that you know their hormones or whatever cool okay you found out that they're on drugs but there is no winning there is there is literally no winning true so so like even the drug testing that he even mentioned is a moot point because john cena has like 90 or 100 drug tests

stamped right to tape to his wall at his gym i've seen him before i mean that doesn't verify anything and again i'm friends with him and i like him and he's my boy uh but that doesn't really verify anything either but he has taken third-party testing. It's not like Vince McMahon is like, hey, time to take your drug test. He has been tested by another organization to see if he's natural. I don't know. This stuff will go on forever. When someone's that jacked, I guess all you can do is take it as a compliment, I guess.

It's pretty admirable to be able to get by over 100 tests. Like, damn, good on him. But then people think it's, I don't know, it's strange, too, because people think that they put you in a category as a cheater. But what if you're utilizing performance-enhancing drugs and you're not necessarily competing in anything that's claiming that you're natural? As long as you're not selling an app or some supplements. So has O'Hearn competed naturally? Like he hasn't competed naturally in like decades, right? He hasn't. Yeah. He hasn't done competitions in a long time, but he has said multiple times. And this is the weird thing when people on the podcast, like you're not actually asking Mike, we know Mike doesn't, he says he's not on drugs all the time.

There's nothing to ask him. Like we're literally asking him questions. I didn't even think of asking him that but that we probably should have. Yeah, because we already assumed and we knew like, no, he said all the time that he's not on drugs. And we – I don't believe he is. But our assumption is like, yeah, you guys all know that this guy doesn't say he's on drugs. So, yeah, it was really weird. this guy doesn't say he's on drugs. So, yeah, it was really weird. I thought that way with the liver king.

I was like I need to ask him point blank very directly. But I've known Mike for so long. Mike has been asked so many times by Kenny KO, by all these different creators, are you on steroids? He's like, no, I never have. He has fucking shirts that say natty, natty whatever. We all know this. So it's whatever. Now, at this point, it's what the audience believes.

But what you were mentioning, Mark, about the take it as a compliment thing, right? You know the weird aspect of that is like it's cool how – OK. I've seen those comments. Yeah, if people are saying that you're on steroids, don't get mad about that. Even Greg said that it should be a compliment to the work you've put in. But the the somewhat annoying aspect of it is that if you saying I'm saying I'm natural, I've never done anything, never taken any steroids. But somebody then just they don't believe me and they have their total right to not believe me um now in their mind i am a liar or anybody who is actually like not taking drugs or

hasn't taken drugs in the in their mind you're now just somebody who's lying the term fake natty liar all that type of shit you you you're a liar right that really fucking sucks that's the thing that honestly is the most annoying aspect about all of it because literally you could be trying to give somebody really good information but they view you as a liar you're not an honest human being i that's the part that irks me because i know there's also people in this building there's people that for years have not believed me and i know they don't believe me i know they view me as a liar and i'm just like coming in looking at them every day it kind of sucks because like there are a lot of people that people think are on drugs that are not you know and it doesn't

matter what they say people will inherently just view them as liars that's that's some shit that's really some shit so it can't be i don't i don't take it as a compliment at the end of the day because i've said it multiple times so many people have said it multiple times nick bear all these other individuals have said it multiple times but there's a certain sect, a lot of Greg's audience, are going to think that just Shannon Sharp is a liar. Because Shannon Sharp, Greg made an ad on Shannon. Greg made one on Nick. Greg made one on this West African guy, Uzoma Obilor, right?

DK Metcalf. DK Metcalf, right? DK Metcalf's a professional athlete. He has all the incentive. They're just liars. That's tough. But what if they're actually not lying and this is literally just their lived experience and they're trying to give information right yeah that's always it's a good perspective because that's a pretty clean way of saying hey i'm not even going to weigh in because i don't want to i don't want to wrongly accuse somebody of lying.

And you can still kind of have your own thoughts, but maybe you just kind of keep them to yourself. Yeah. You had, I think, the best analogy that I have ever heard, which was like, how come with LeBron James, we all just know, well, he's a gifted athlete from birth. And, you know, yeah, he's put in the work, but he's just way better than

i'll ever be but yet when it comes to the gym it's like oh we're all in the same playing field like it's everyone's identical and so if they're they can get way more advanced than me then they're taking a little something it's it's because of the physical attributes of the gym and actually what the sport of bodybuilding is. Because when most people think of the sport of bodybuilding, they do think of Arnold Schwarzenegger. They do think of Chris Bumstead. They do think of Kai Greene and Phil Heath. And those are people who have obviously used performance enhancing drugs to get their physiques. But there is also a middle ground of people who chose not to go that route. And some of those people in that middle ground that have competed without using drugs have had done it for a long time.

But they have the ability to get to really good looking physiques, really fucking good looking physiques without steroids. But it's not like in basketball, you can't just take a lot of steroids and dunk. You know, these are skills. In soccer, you can't just take a bunch of steroids and become a great soccer player. So when it comes to things like that. Figure skating. Figure skating. There's a lot of different sports that have so many different things going on.

You can't necessarily just take steroids for them. People don't look at those high-skilled individuals and just think Steph Curry is on some type of drug. Yeah, or a tennis player or something, right? People don't look at those high skilled individuals and just think steph curry's on on a some type of drug or tennis player or something right people don't look at that like that but in this physical sport if you are claiming to be natural and you look elite well the assumption is well you're probably doing all like a lighter version of what these guys did you it's a lighter version it's a little bit of hrt it's a little bit lighter version. It's a little bit of HRT. It's a little bit of TRT. It's a little bit of PEDs to get to where you are right now.

And that's a fact. This isn't speculation. To them, it's fact. I also think it's kind of interesting of people just like sometimes when people talk about me being on them, I'm just thinking to myself like, well, you have the power to make a choice one way or the other as well. And you obviously made your choice. So are you disappointed with your choice or are you disappointed that I made a different choice?

I mean, I've talked about it openly and so people kind of make it sound like i have access to something that they don't have access to but especially now more than ever everyone's got access to it so sometimes when i look at that i'm just like man that's kind of weird i don't i don't understand i don't understand like where they're coming from because I'm just thinking, well, just like protein powder, you get the same access as I do. It does have a little bit of a cost, but it ain't expensive. Testosterone's not expensive. It's like $50 for 10 milliliters of it, $60. If somebody's selling it to you for more than that, they're taking you for a ride.

If you guys want to order some from me go to markbell.com link in the description promo code power project so that 50 comes out to a little bit less but man that's that's the danger though because like this generation of um lifters and i i i'm 30 years old am i really being the back in my day guy i'm about to be the back in my day guy um dude like when i was 27 when i was 16 i feel like i feel like such an ass um but just wait it gets worse dude brandon harding i've brought him up before but he started taking tests and or stuff three years into his training career and you see how he looks now you see all the success he's had blah blah blah and and guys love him because he was honest he kept it real he kept it that's all

we ask in sima we just want you to keep it real and i see that comment too about mike like i'd have so much respect for you if you're honest right so but this the reason why you see so many young tiktok fitness guys or whatever guys lifting only three, four, five years and then being like, okay, I'm going to up my level and get on TRT is because to everyone it's so normal. It shouldn't be normal when you get to a point where you're older and your testosterone is not close to where it was and you're doing everything in your lifestyle to be healthy and increase your tests, but it's not there. That is when that card should be played. It shouldn't – I mean, OK. Everyone has different goals. Some people want to be pro fucking bodybuilders.

But if your guy that just wants to get big and lift, I don't know. My opinion is that like that shouldn't be your card you know and again we're all adults we all have the ability to make choice but now trt for younger guys is more common than ever that's weird it's it's actually celebrated too it is celebrated because when you come out if you're an influencer and you're like i'm now doing trt bro that's why i dig you so much man you're honest it's like here's the other thing that i wonder so i did mention like hey you got access to it right but if when i was training in the beginning yes i did read about it and stuff but i remember being so excited about the results i was getting and being so into like i had like a training log and I

would write everything down and I would see like, oh, that's what I did last week. I'm going to up that a little bit. I'm going to do a little bit more weight. I wasn't like, I wasn't sitting there thinking about all these external ways I could get better. I was thinking about the actual, I was in the workouts. I was thinking about the workout. I was thinking about the next time I'm going to go to the gym. And I was really excited and motivated for every time that I was able to go back to the gym. So it's, it's a fascinating thing that people get so, they get so wrapped up in it, but just again, what would happen if you train, if you put in the work and you do so day in and day out and you build up some consistency? What if you're consistent for 30 days?

What if you're consistent for 60 days? What if you're consistent for 90 days? What does that look like? There's not a steroid that you can take that's going to improve your consistency or improve your ability to make the correct decisions. going to improve your consistency or improve your ability to make the correct decisions. There's not going to be a steroid that you can take that's going to improve your ability to tell your friends you're not going out with them. There's not going to be a steroid that's going to, I guess, teach you to like shun alcohol and shun things that are going to pull away from your training routine. That'll always be the most powerful thing that you ever do

is make the decision to stick to your habits and to stick to your guns and to do it over and over and over again. That's what I was obsessed with when I was a kid. I was obsessed with, I want to see what results I can get. And you know what? I was getting results. So steroids took a back seat. Even though I was reading about them and I was pumped about them, I was excited.

I was like, these sound fucking awesome. Wow. Someone can gain like 10, 15 pounds like, and they could do all these other things. Like, holy shit, that sounds crazy. But I was gaining strength as well. I was getting bigger as well. I was getting in better shape. So I was like, well, you know, if you're going to the gym and you're, you're going three times a week and then the next week you go one time a week and then you miss a month and then you go for, that's where I really see the danger of somebody like getting involved super early where they didn't have a couple base years of like just kind of learning the gym, like knowing how to work out.

There's a lot of guys that are taking stuff that probably have not even scratched the surface of what their body could truly do. And I think that kind of sucks. And before you pulled the trigger, the physique you showed and the physique you had before you chose to pull the trigger, man, people would think that physique was on drugs. Oh, yeah, for sure. I wish we had. I mean, I think, Andrew, you had the file like saved. It's going to take me a minute. That's that's all good actually it's on his phone that's so weird i just had a screensaver um pulled up nowhere oh yeah there you go dude look at you pre-steroids i mean

like okay and let's just like let's just do a thought experiment. Look at you before you started. How old were you there on the left? About 19 or 20. Okay, 19 or 20. Now let's just imagine you just chose to volume it. You just chose to spend another decade. I didn't even bodybuild. I didn't even know anything about bodybuilding. You were doing powerlifting type training, right?

You weren't doing a lot of training volume. This is strength training yeah low reps getting stronger also had no legs at that point yeah but but i think about this dude if you just like did another 10 years with just volume like 19 dog yeah i might be bigger and in better shape than i am right now i think think it's possible. But what your physique pre-steroids, that is a physique that people would be is not natty. And I think this might have been right when you got on, I think. Yep. And how old are you there?

2014. Five. I wish you had pictures when you were like 24 or 23 because you didn't hop on until 25, right? 25, yeah. I wish you had those 24, 23 pictures. Yeah, there might be a little bit of tweener pictures. Well, that's 1920, dude. So there was more years of him being bigger. Whoa.

You know? How did that happen? That needs to be a shirt. That face. Should we keep playing this video? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I have this noted down. I think he'd be funny. I have this noted down. I want to hang out with Greg. I think he'd be funny. But not for too long. For like a smelly's kitchen, though?

That'd be sick. Not for too long. Because women can do it. Because the young kids just started their journey. They've been lifting for a few months. They didn't really see a big difference yet because maybe they haven't stuck with it long enough. They probably just haven't been consistent enough yet. with it long enough they may may probably probably just haven't been consistent enough yet but what happens if you double down and start to go all in rather than only making it twice a week and

missing a week and so forth what happens if you go four or five days a week and so what mark bells bring up is a great point and the way i see it is this if those young kids have been training a couple months and they see these dramatic transformations which were done with enhancements and people like me they don't call them out and don't say hey look this transformation where they put on 40 pounds of muscle in one year that was not done natural if that young kid sees that video and thinks wow they put on 40 pounds of muscle in a year and they start training in a year later they've only put on eight pounds they're thinking is that a real transformation i think so then they go and use pds but if they were told hey that transformation that was done with trans the real muscle i don't know he was in pds the entire time and probably dramatically

shortened her life i don't think those are real maybe they think twice maybe they think oh i could potentially gain 40 pounds if i use those pds but i know that that's not realistic. I know that that doesn't make sense for me. And so I'm going to lower my expectations and still train harder than last time, still do what it takes, but do so in a smart and safe manner. And to me, it's all about education, telling them the truth, telling them honestly, openly. Steroids will in fact make you bigger, faster, but you still shouldn't do them. You're too young. You're a teenager.

Wait until you're an adult that you've reached your natural genetic limit. And only with the advice of a doctor should you ever decide to take PD. You know, natural genetic limit would be just an interpretation, too. Like, because, you know, I don't know who the fuck knows. We don't even, we just don't know. We don't know what the human body is capable of. We certainly, you know, where I think there's divinity in everybody is, is in our will, is in our decision. Like somebody can wake up tomorrow and just decide that they're not going to smoke crack anymore.

Someone can make a decision tomorrow that they're going to change their life forever. And sometimes you just see it in somebody and you're like, I don't know what happened with that dude, but he just fucking just, he just changed. Like he was hit by a spell or something. Some people sometimes even say they were talked to by God or whoever, whatever they believe in. So I think, you know, trying to say like something like a genetic limit, like even the word, like, how do you know what their limit is? What's that based off of? You know, like if I'm, if I'm thinking of a genetic limit, well, my dad's like 5'2",

you know, so he's kind of a nerd, you know? So it's like, well, my luck's going to run out with this whole genetic thing real quick. So I think it's, it's probably not, it's probably not a great place to be and also what a wonderful thing to think that you have like pretty good genetics that you come from good stock and i think that people could uh maybe at least hang their hat on this is that somewhere along the line somebody in your family was really fucking resilient for you to be here in the first place for you to have survived somebody had to walk fucking barefoot and really cold weather or some shit to get you from to transport you and your family from wherever the fuck you came from to wherever your family is kind of located nowish

like there had to be i mean we're the survivors like we're here for a reason and so when you kind of think of some of those things, um, I heard somebody on, uh, maybe it was, uh, I heard someone on Joe Rogan talking about that. And they're like, that was something that kind of excited them when they were training really hard is they thought about kind of like where we came from, from an evolutionary standpoint and what bad-asses people must've been to endure. You think about your race and think about your race and think about my race being evil but you think about all the things that you all the spots that you came from and and your family had to fucking dig deep if you look back into the family tree deep enough

i was like is he about to say the master race actually you know what mark that is um is a very, very cool viewpoint. Anyone who's here on this earth right now, like, y'all, your genetics fucking made it, bro. You know, because there are a lot of people who just got eaten by the tiger. Would you say the same is true for Smokey? Or would you say except Smokey? You know, I mean, those titties, those man that's why though that's why he's here make salami nipples those fucking titties on smoky that shit is probably his whole line men and women

have those titties and that's why that's how they got here because that shit's gonna be here in the year 3000 i know that for sure yeah shit uh get we gotta get him out for a jog oh but um dude be fun you know and i think we've talked about the the expectation thing like i don't i think greg is trying to get lifters to become the best versions of themselves but not um because i saw some comments of guys who are like coach greg your your videos have helped me mentally. Because I'd be comparing myself to these people and I'd get all down on myself. But now I know that like – I know that that's not possible, right? He's getting them to recalibrate and to concentrate on themselves.

Yeah, recalibrate and concentrate on themselves. But – and that's great. But the side that I mean, I guess I decided that I don't like about that is I don't want people to lower their expectations. I want people to set high expectations for themselves. Uh, I don't, I don't want people to set realistic goals. I mean, I told you, um, when I was, when I was young, I think I was probably 16 or 17. I saw this speech by Will Smith where he was talking about how being realistic is the,

the fastest path to mediocrity. And it was such a sick speech because he was like, uh, you know, Edison, whoever, whoever made the light bulb wasn't being realistic when they thought they'd be able to make,

you know, I don't want to butcher his speech, but he's giving all these examples of things that were done. Like the Wright brothers bending metal to make a plane that flies over the ocean is not realistic, right? You're not going to be able to do that. You're going to die. It's delusional, bro. But when I heard that, I'm like, fuck being realistic. I am going to have unrealistic expectations for myself because I want to be exceptional. I want to be exceptional. I do not want to be average,

right? So I want people to set those goals for themselves because I know that they're going to be absolutely surprised about the things that they'll be able to achieve if they're not being realistic. Find out where your boundaries are, bump up against them, and maybe you'll find out like, ooh, that kind of hurt too much or that was a little bit more than I thought. But I think if I come back for this a little bit more prepared, I think I can do better. Or if I come back with a different strategy. Course correct. Because failure happens all through this fucking journey, but it only is failure with the person who stops. The person who gets to that little bit of resistance and then course correct so that they can surpass that, that's the person who creates a fucking slingshot and becomes a millionaire. That's the person who fucking here producing this podcast after years of doing photography.

Right. Our boy Russell, he's down, I think, almost 60 pounds now and he's just on fire. He's been in here. He's been all fired up. You guys may have noticed a change in him. He came up to Bodega and we got an opportunity to hang out we walked um you guys been down to that beach before and you guys you guys know that hill russell was able to walk down the hill we walked on the beach for about a half mile

we circled back he was able to make it up the hill um you know it was all challenging and stuff but like he you know he is just on a mission he understands that he needs to uh put these habits forward he got a new uh pr he got down to 449 previously i think was 509 or something or 505 so he's just continuing to make progress you might have noticed that he changed his name on instagram too. Um, he and I were talking about a bunch of different, uh, names and some things that he can do. Um, he has started a podcast and I think the podcast might be called no fat way out as well as his Instagram is called no fat way out because the fat way out, the fat way out. Yeah. So he and I were talking about, me, him, and my brother Chris, we were all talking about that Rocky song,

There's No Easy Way Out, There's No Shortcut Home, that whole thing. And we were just talking about what a cool song that is. And so Russell and I were going back and forth with these names. And then he shot that name out to me. And I was like, I think that's really cool because he's trying to find a way out. He's trying to figure out a way. And it's a lot of course correcting. The habits are there.

They're lined up. And then they're not. Habits are lined up. And then they're not. Habits are lined up. But what you'll learn over a period of time is when the habits are lined up, you can do pretty good. And you'll actually be kind of surprised. You'll be like, wow, I can't believe I'm doing this.

I know this happens in jujitsu sometimes somebody goes to put you in something and because you've been practicing it enough you're like oh my god i got out what i wasn't didn't even know i could do that even though your coach was probably trying to show you the way for a couple of weeks or whatever then you're like holy shit yeah and the same thing happens when you're in the gym trying to bench press the same i've been talking to jake about his goddamn bench form since he was nine years old, basically. And he just told me the other day, he's like, you know, when I arch up a little bit and I pull my chest up and have the shoulder blades back, he's like, that really worked. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to punch you in the face. the face we got to kind of continually uh regardless of who you are regardless of what your goals are and regardless of peds or any of this stuff uh that anybody wants to talk about

the fact still remains that michael trent at we'll just say 53 i always forget how old he is at 53 years old is fucking jacked he looks looks incredible. The habits are in place. How helpful is it for us to think that he's on or off or whatever? He says that he doesn't do them. He's been my friend for a long time. I'm not going to call him a liar. So I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm taking his word for it because I know that that's where I want to be. Actually, I want to be better than that by the time in my fift so for me personally that's why i believe he's not it doesn't serve me he's got a great ass he has an amazing ass he's got a big butt and very very very smooth skin which is uh why you guys should get on that skin routine did you come out

with your cream yet no i need to i need but i think it's just kind of fucked up if i come out with a cream because i'm black. Like, dude, dude, look at this picture of my mom and grandma. Oh, so you're, you're, wow.

Look at my grandma at 99 years old. Look at her fucking skin, bro. Still good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I can't come out with the cream.

That is an awesome picture, dude. Yeah. It's beautiful. That's fucking great. It's beautiful. Yeah. But it's just the way it just the way that cookie crumbles.

Take us on out of here, Andrew. All right. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. You guys are probably already leaving the comments, but if you guys are on the fence about dropping a comment about today's conversation, please don't hesitate. Go ahead and sound off and yell at us and call us a bunch of fucking idiots for believing in what we believe. Just, yeah, go right ahead. You don't know shit compared to coach greg andrew i know by the expectation effect by that book i really think everyone who's listening to this podcast

if you're if you're if you're part of the you know if you listen to our episodes by the expectation effect because i think that that book will help you understand why your beliefs and your expectations are going to drive you towards your results and can affect your biology towards your results. And it's not fucking woo woo. Also make sure you buy the underground steroid handbook. Yeah, I guess get that too. And buy Greg's freaking cookbook. Buy his cookbook.

That shit's great. I bought it. I love that shit. Even though I'm not really using it anymore, but like, man man there's some really good stuff in there but uh you guys already know about that so don't yeah anyways uh please follow the podcast at mb power project on instagram tiktok and twitter oh and also please make sure you guys like today's video before you head out subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already and share this video with a friend my instagram is at i am andrew z same with TikTok, Twitter's I am Andrew Z.

And Seema, where are you at? By the expectation effect, by the expectation effect. Join the Discord. Link is in the description. At Seema Eni on Instagram and YouTube. At Seema Yin Yang on TikTok and Twitter. Mark? How's your body feel after the running today?

Great. I feel really good. Nice. I'm happy with, we'll talk about this more, but I'm happy with some of the stuff we've been doing to lead into those sprints because my body is like prepared for it. I feel good.

Yeah, you're moving well. Look good. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.