Mark Bell's Power Project - Paul Saladino - Carnivores NEED to Start Eating Fruit NOW || MBPP Ep. 778

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Paul Saladino, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about navigating our diet in our "modern jungle". Paul explains how it's not alpha predators chasing us any more, it's chemicals that have infiltrated our food supply that are attacking us. This and how Paul went from super strict carnivore to now allowing fruit into his diet after finding some deficiencies. Follow Paul on IG: https://www.instagram.com/carnivoremd2.0 Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://boncharge.com/pages/POWERPROJECT Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off!! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really does work): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code POWERPROJECT20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PaulSaladino #CarnivoreDiet #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast

Hi, Roger family. How's it going? Now, we have had so many different guests that have come onto our podcast and we've talked about meat a lot. And the one thing that everybody that tries Piedmontese says is that it is some of the most tender steak they have ever had. I think actually Sean Baker came on and talked about the lack of connective tissue in the cattle. Yeah, he broke it down scientifically, but yeah, he did. That's the reason why when you, whatever cut you get, whether it's a ribeye, whether it's it's a flat iron whether it's a bavette no matter when you cut into that steak after it's cooked you're not getting any of that chewiness that gristle that you have to spit out because you can't actually chew it piedmontese is super tender they have great cuts that are low fat high

fat for whatever diet you're doing they're just overall amazing beef company andrew how can they get it yep that's over at Piedmontese.com. That's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com. At checkout, enter promo code POWER for 25% off your order. And if your order is $150 or more, you get free two-day shipping. Again, Piedmontese.com, promo code POWER. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Price of normal AirPods should increase or it should...

No, I'm saying it's interesting that they haven't with everything getting more expensive you can still get airpods for the same price as they were when they first came out that's because there's other iterations like there's a there's a gen 2 there's a gen 3 right so they're getting better as inflation is getting worse normally it does not happen that way normally like when we're talking about food it gets less the quality drops and the price goes up but now we're talking about something like a piece of technology that's very expensive it's gotten better i think they've kept the same price something that's weird with food it's like how is food so cheap when there's like more and more ingredients that's what i mean know. The processed food, the list goes up higher and higher, and then it's like 59 cents for

a bag of chips. They need more filler. That's why. It's actually less food. Less stuff. All that shit makes it easier to make. But imagine if we were trying to figure that out, like where to get fucking soft flour oil from or whatever.

You say soft flour. I don't know what that is fucking called. Yeah, I don't know what it is. Self-rising stuff. Yeah, soft flour oil from or whatever you say self i don't know what that's fucking called yeah i don't know what it is self-rising yeah stuff yeah self-assuming oil self-loving before we got on this we were having a conversation on how like okay we're gonna have this conversation about plastics and all this shit with mr salad man but um when we were talking earlier we were talking about how like when we were kids we ate a lot of shit oh yeah like we we did a lot of we ate a lot of dangerous shit we did a lot of dangerous shit and i mean it's good that parents are and it's because we talk about guarding your children from some of these foods and so but at the end of the

day like there are certain things you probably shouldn't have your kids eat, but if they eat a lot of the right things, they'll grow and they'll probably be good. Yeah. We're going to drop dead in like three weeks though. It's from all that bullshit that we ate, right? Maybe it's cause I'm not a parent. So maybe I'm,

I'm being a little bit more liberal with this shit. You know, you have a baby, so you, this is on your mind all the time. I think we make really good decisions, right? I think we make the best decisions that we can and we've gotten further away us specifically gotten further away from process stuff we still have it we still enjoy it

my monster we're still gonna do it but it's like a lower percentage right of what we you know used to do what we normally would do it's a much lower percentage i think that's all you can do i don't know would do. It's a much lower percentage. I think that's all you can do. I don't know how else you live in a fucking bubble or something. I mean, I guess you could try to have your own farm. I was going to say that I would think the only— But that would be difficult because what about your neighbor? Your neighbor might use glyphosate or something.

I don't know. I don't know how deep down you— glyphosate or something or i don't i don't know i don't know how deep down you you know yeah i was just gonna say like meat seems to be the only thing now i know you can get into like well what were they fed and then what was yeah the thing they ate fed but like well it's kind of remarkable because the cow's got those four chambers so a cow will turn just about anything into something that's halfway decent for us which is kind of. And it's all like insulated inside the cow. But who the fuck knows? I don't know.

How did we get on today's – what's happened today with today's podcast? You sent it to us yesterday. So what came across your feed? Yeah, I just saw Paul had a thing where he was talking about like the whole food salad bar. where he was talking about like the Whole Foods salad bar. And I don't really particularly like fake health, people promoting products that are kind of in this healthy space, but then you also might be like loaded with calories or might have – it's not like I think Whole Foods should only sell things that are healthy.

The Whole Foods is the store. Right, the Whole Foods is the store. And by the way, it would probably be a good idea if we play it. Yeah, they have like a little buffet salad bar type thing. I think Whole Foods should only sell things that are healthy. The Whole Foods is the store. Right. The Whole Foods is the store. And by the way, it would probably be a good idea if we play it. Yeah. They have like a little buffet salad bar type thing. Yeah. And he was just like, ah, this is kind of crap. And I think that people think just because it's like organic.

They see the word organic or they see some of these words and then they think it's healthy. And I don't like the fact – I mean people need to be educated and so that's – anyone can be educated. Most anybody can be educated. Most people have like Wi-Fi. So you can like YouTube stuff and Google stuff and look stuff up. And you can find out information. But I don't like – sometimes there's like some things that kind of swerve us. But I don't think in the whole foods there's anything that in particular that says, Hey, this is healthy. This is going to help you

manage your weight. But there's a perception of whole foods as a store, that stuff in there is healthy and they have a salad bar in there. And Paul was just kind of, he was kind of ripping apart the stuff that's at the salad bar. And what got me thinking was forget about all this stuff about like plastics and all these different things being in our food. Those are things that like, yeah, it's good to be a little conscious of that and try to make better decisions. But my thought was, well, maybe I'll just try to put my dollars more towards things that I believe are better than these industrial seed oils and some of these things that end up in some of these foods, some of these plastics. And I'll just do my best wherever I can with my dollar to put my votes that way.

When it comes to like diet soda, when it comes to like monster energy drinks and some of these things, maybe for me personally, maybe I'll just vote for those things a little bit less if I don't like them. That's kind of just where my mind was at. I don't have to really worry about whether sucralose is going to fucking blow my stomach up and cause me to have some sort of weird gut bacteria ratio that's not favorable for my body. Instead, I can just kind of think, well, I don't really know if I want to put money into Coke. I don't know if I really want to put money towards Pepsi. I don't know if I really want to put money towards Pepsi. I don't know if I really want to put money towards Nike.

I'd rather put my money towards shoes that are going to be like more helpful for people. I'd rather put my money towards other things that can be a little bit more health promoting. How far down that rabbit hole do you go? I don't know. What does Coke and Pepsi own? They own fucking everything. Coke, I think, owns Fairlife. A lot of these companies, they have products that people enjoy.

People overly enjoy them on their own accord for many years. And then these companies, they'll buy up like health food companies like Kraft recently acquired Primal Kitchen and so forth. So you'll see a lot more of that to come. But aside from that, I'd still like to try to put my own dollars towards what I think is in my best interest and goes along with my beliefs as much as possible. Yeah. Since we had Anthony Jay on several years ago now on the podcast, he came in and just fucking destroyed literally our entire like being because he was yeah he was talking about phthalates and plastics and stuff and so we're just like oh well what if we have you know a coffee in a paper cup and he's like well it's lined with plastic

i'm like fuck okay but what about uh you know i forgot like literally everything like i have a berkey water filter because i want clean water and he he's like, well, the spouts plastic and I'm like, shit. Okay. Well I packed my lunch in a glass Tupperware thing. You know what? And he's like, well, the lid is plastic. I'm like, okay, but, and then he just like went down the whole road and like, there was nothing I could not get away from plastic, no matter how hard I tried some ways in some shape or fashion. Like I'm going to have plastic interrupt everything that I'm trying to do. It's fucking sucks. Cause you can go down the rabbit hole and you cannot get out. It's impossible to avoid it.

It's like trying to get an electric car to try to make a difference. You know, it does, it may or may not like electric car from my understanding needs coal to make the batteries or some shit like that. And then what do you do with the batteries? Like where does the waste go? Supposedly they dump a lot of this waste in other countries and it just ends up – I mean it doesn't really solve some of the problem that you're even trying to fix in the first place.

And then also you drive your Tesla to your home and you have your air conditioning at 70. You know what I mean? Like, and you're not necessarily helping with the environment or climate change or anything in particular. I mean, you might be tiny bit, but maybe not. Maybe you're making things worse. It's great to be aware. It is awesome to be aware, but don't get so aware that it starts to stress you out with every little decision you make like oh no that's plastic like it's not many times it's not the thing that's going to move the needle towards you getting not all of a sudden going to grow some tits because you ate something that was in a plastic package oh this this candle has a little bit of soy in it

i can feel it like i mean come on your milk starts coming in. Oh, I'm lactating. Like, it's not. Over time, kids' taints or whatever, like the distance will get smaller, right? Who's measuring this? And that is kind of interesting that they do have, right? Yeah. Who's the doctor who's like, let's measure those taints? The Catholic Church.

They've been doing that since the 1700s. Let's go. We should watch this video though. He's going to come on soon. Yeah, that was great. Let me put these at this. Oh, I'm sorry. He's right here.

Lord and Savior with his red hair. Hold on, I can't see shit. This is a train wreck. Almost every single right here. Yeah, he's our lord and savior with his red hair. Hold on, I can't see shit. It is a train wreck. Almost every single thing here, if you read the labels, expeller, press, canola oil. Almost every single one of the things in this hot bar has seed oils. That is not the only problem. You go over here, you put your seed oil-laden coleslaw

into one of these cardboard containers, except the cardboard containers have a plastic lining which has PFASs in it. They're everywhere. They're harmful for you. And even the butcher paper has a plastic lining on it. It's going to have PFASs, popcorn linings, your floss. It's so hard, but intention wins. You've got to be intentional about where your food is

coming from or you will get seed oils you will get pfas's it will mess up your hormones this is a problem guys damn bro it's a problem and the fact that he did that so loud within the whole foods his cameraman was just like this and he was saying yeah man there was somebody like fucking suplexed him suplex him right into the cucumbers or something it looks like he's ready to go we can yeah cool let's get him on let's do this yeah and he's just been having this whole thing lately about talking about things being bullshit which i think is pretty fun okay there he is looking handsome as ever what's up guys how you doing hanging out in costa rica you got a mustache going over there no i shaved the other day man i don in costa rica you got a mustache going over there

no i shaved the other day man i don't know it kind of looks like a mustache maybe this is a shadow very red very tan nice dude what are you doing when you live at the equator yeah yeah what are you doing in costa rica how'd you end up over there oh. I think that I just realized after living in Austin for seven or eight months that I missed being in nature, um, in like wilderness. I'm just a human that likes to like dance with chaos and nature. And that sounds really highfalutin, but I like to ski. I like to snowboard. I like to climb mountains and I like to surf.

If I don't have one of those things in my life, I don't have like an anchor. So I wanted to come down and I just stayed. I thought I was coming down for eight or nine days of vacation and turned into a month, turned into two months. Now it's a year and a half later and still live in Costa Rica.

I get to surf all the time. It's amazing. That's great. What's going on with this bullshit campaign? Kale's bullshit. This is bullshit. That's bullshit. What's going on over there? How are these vegetables bullshit to us? I've got a Kale's bullshit shirt. It happened by accident, man. I was in the grocery store. You know, I think that what's interesting for me is at this stage in my life, I don't work in a hospital anymore. I don't see patients. I think that I can do the most good in the world by doing educational stuff. And the most impactful education I can do is on social media. And so I'm always trying to think, how can I tell people about dietary paradigms that get them curious and get them thinking for themselves in a way that's interesting? And the kale is bullshit was kind

of born out of that. I was walking around Whole Foods, showing people what I eat. And I just randomly walked in. I was wearing a kale is bullshit shirt. And I picked up kale and I said, kale is bullshit. I just started riffing on it and it went viral. And then you realize, man, this is a whole thing. Like what about avocado? What about olive oil? What about avocado oil? What about all these things? Like, and it's just my idea about it. And people are going to disagree and people get super triggered when I say something is bullshit or not, but it's kind of cool because it's black and white. Like this is bullshit. This is not bullshit. There's a lot of bullshit in the world today, guys. And it's kind of fun calling it out. There's a lot of bullshit at Whole Foods, despite the fact that it's a healthy grocery store. It's bullshit in every grocery store. Why are you having a war against avocado? You made an avocados bullshit video, did you? There was a 2020 analysis. I can pull it up, but it looked at the purity and quality of avocado oils

and the peroxide values, which is a measure of how rancid, how oxidized the avocado oil is, were really high in these avocado oils. They were all above what many people have suggested as the tolerable limit. And then if you look at the avocado oils, many of them were adulterated with seed oils,

like soybean oil. And they had 22 samples in this study. Two of the extra virgin samples and one of the refined samples were 100% soybean oil. 100% soybean oil. So this is the problem with these liquid oils is that most consumers have no idea what the quality they're getting is. And then you think you're doing something healthy and then you're actually not. You're getting an oxidized oil, which I think is going to create all sorts of problems with human physiology. You might even be getting a seed oil, which you might be trying to avoid in the first place.

Maybe you know about the problems with soybean oil or corn or canola oil. Maybe you don't. But then you're just getting pure soybean oil sold to you as avocado oil. So I think that people should just be, my recommendation would be just eat animal fat. That's what I think really makes humans thrive. And that is a really controversial, fun position to take because so many people have just shit all over animal fats for so long. And I think that they're critical for human health.

There's so many important pieces of nutrition in animal fat. We never think of fat as nutrients. We just think of it as a macronutrient, but man, fat is magical. It actually has endocrine properties. We can look at, they're called lipokines, but essentially I think that there are certain fat molecules, many fat molecules that have hormonal effects in the human body. And you want the positive, not the negative hormonal effects in the human body and you want the positive not the negative hormonal effects in the human body well just curious what would the negative hormonal effects be from using things like avocado oil sunflower oil all those types of oils what would those negative effects be yeah so great question my concern with sunflower safflower, corn, canola, soybean, grapeseed is based on the amount of linoleic acid

in those oils. This is going to get a little technical. Hold on to your butts. This is an 18 carbon omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid. And what we know very clearly is that a molecule of fat, though all molecules of fat are give or take nine calories per gram, they have very different physiologic, I would say hormonal, lipokine effects in the human body. Stearic acid is an 18-carbon saturated fat, meaning all the carbons are connected by a single bond. Linoleic acid is an 18- carbon omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid, meaning there are multiple carbon to carbon bonds that are double bonds. People may say, what's the big deal? It's just a few electrons here or there and some pi orbitals somewhere. I learned about this in

organic chemistry. Who gives a shit? The molecules take a completely different shape and they appear to bind to different receptors. They appear to have different hormonal effects in the human body. And what appears to be the case, and this is a controversial hypothesis, but I really believe this. The more I dig into it, the more I believe this is the center of human chronic health issues, is that when we get above a certain level of linoleic acid in the human body, probably an evolutionarily appropriate level of linoleic acid, this 18-carbon polyunsaturated fat, our biochemistry just goes off the rails, probably through some sort of hormonal effects, whether it's in the adipocyte, so the fat cell and the fat cell membrane, whether it's in

mitochondrial membranes, whether it's in nuclear membranes, you can make cases for all of those pieces of the pathology. But what we know very clearly about insulin resistance, a condition also known as metabolic dysfunction that most physicians would say lies at the root of the majority of chronic illness. I would say this is probably the number one offender of chronic illness in humans, cancer, dementia, autoimmune disease, cardiovascular disease. It's all insulin resistance, all insulin resistance at the root. And I think that we know that that is connected with broken fat cells. So fat cells, your adipocytes rule everything about your metabolic flexibility and your insulin sensitivity. Because those fat cells release inflammatory mediators, they release lipokines, and they release non-esterified fatty

acids into the blood. And what we know isokines and they release non-esterified fatty acids into the blood. And what we know is when those fat cells release non-esterified fatty acids into the blood, the body becomes insulin resistant. This is a normal physiology. Like it's badly broken. I got a question, teacher. I got a question. So what happens if we consume some of these things but we just don't overeat do we avoid in terms of calories or absolute amounts of linoleic acid do we potentially avoid

uh some of the disasters of uh what you're talking about with insulin resistance if we end up consuming some of these things but but we don't end up overeating. You mean in terms of absolute amounts of calories? Yes, basically, yeah. That appears to mitigate some of the problems. My problem with that is that humans don't like to be in prison, whether it's San Quentin or calorie prison. They all suck. And that evolutionarily, if you put yourself in calorie prison you'll eventually break out your body won't stay there forever and you'll be i think in a bad spot there's some people that are a little disinterested in food though right like there's some people that like

something i've been observing is like i just have some friends that they just don't care that much about food they're like i went through the day i didn't notice anything i didn't even i forgot to through the day. I didn't notice anything. I didn't even, I forgot to eat. And I'm like, who the fuck are you? What does that even mean that you forgot to eat? I think about food nonstop. So I believe that some of these people can maybe avoid some of what you're talking about to some degree, but maybe over time,

maybe it does catch up to you, especially as we get older. Maybe it catches up to you because we're eating these things that are unhealthy. But I think if you're just not overeating, maybe you're not put in the same category and maybe you don't end up with as much of a shitty metabolism in the end if you don't overeat. It's possible. I think that the mechanisms are also linked. So, Insima, you asked about how does this act hormonally? One of the ways that linoleic acid or the byproducts of linoleic acid, specifically 2-AG and anandamide, Tucker Goodrich

probably talked about this on your podcast, can affect human satiety is through the cannabinoids, specifically the CB1 receptor in the brain. So the cannabinoid receptor one in the brain. And there's some pretty strong mechanisms here. So if you stack the cards against yourself, if you tilt the floor far enough, good luck not overeating because you are literally tickling physiology that affects your satiety in the deepest regions of your brain. So long-term, it's going to be very hard not to overeat if you are sabotaging your satiety impulses in the brain, in the hypothalamus at these CD1 receptors with some of these breakdown products of linoleic acid. That's at least been shown in animal models. So I think that's a real key of this also is that people will eat junk food and then they overeat.

And we also know that these polyunsaturated fatty acids can affect the way that fats are metabolized. They may even affect the basal metabolism, the basal metabolic rate of humans at the level of the mitochondria. Yeah, that's pretty crazy stuff what they can do. So that's the hormonal effect of that one specific fatty acid that I worry about. And just circling back to finish your question, I think that as humans, when you look at these hunter-gatherer tribes, the best analysis we can do suggests that 2% to 3% of their calories, closer to 2%, were from linoleic acid. Today, we have 10% to 15% of our calories from linoleic acid. So just like all of the other, quote, hormones in our body, there are probably delicate levels

and signals from the environment. So one hypothesis that I think is quite compelling might be that when we get above this level, this 2% to 3% of linoleic acid, things go off the rails. So avocado oil can have 15%, 17% linoleic acid. Corn, canola, 20% to 30%, 35%. Grape seed, 65%. Soybean is 45% to 55% linoleic acid. So you just don't want to push that linoleic acid too high. Tallow, butter, 2% linoleic acid. And I think most humans would do better, especially if they're obese, to limit the amount of linoleic acid in their diet as much as

possible. And then if they can get the other good nutrient fats from animal fat, things like stearic acid or odd chain fatty acids, then you're doing a good benefit. So it's like you're losing benefits of stearic acid and odd chain fatty acids in animal fat, which are not really found in large quantities in many plant foods, a little bit in cacao butter, but not many other plant foods have these fats that are primarily found in animal foods. So you're missing the good stuff. And then you're sort of creeping up and filling that bucket that starts to overflow with a potentially damaging hormonal influence, quote unquote, from this linoleic acid. We were talking earlier before the podcast got rolling,

and it's of my opinion that when I was younger, a lot of these seed oils and all this other bullshit wasn't quite as involved in our diets from day to day. And I could be wrong, but it just seems like today, like you cannot avoid a lot of this bullshit no matter what you eat. But my question is how long have like seed oils and all this other stuff, has it like infiltrated our diets on a regular basis to where when you go to the store, literally everything you pick up is going to have some form of it. Yeah. So the first seed oil was created 1910, sometimes the late 1800s.

You guys probably know they were machine lubricants before this. So we had like a stick here in the grocery store that will probably repeat in the United States where I took a seed oil. I took some soybean oil off the shelf and I moved it over to the automotive parts section and put it on the shelf and said, I'm moving, I don't know how this got classified here in the food. It's actually machine lubricant. So these were machine lubricants and then Crisco in 1910 or 1911 created this oil. And there's an interesting rich history there that Chris Kenobi can enumerate better than I can. But then they've just slowly infiltrated our food supply further and further and further. There's an interesting thing to

consider that in 1900 or 1905, probably 99% of the fat that humans ate was tallow, which is essentially rendered animal fat from cows, butter, and lard. And it's hard to know what those pigs were eating, you know, but all of our fats were animal fats in 1905. And this is an association. We can't draw causative inference, but there was a much lower rate of all of our chronic diseases, you know, 115 years ago. And all of the fat we ate, 100% of the fat we ate was animal fat. If the hypothesis that animal fat, saturated fats especially, are the major driver of cardiovascular disease is true, then I'm not sure how that association could have been present historically. I'm actually curious about this because, well, the way I grew up like my mom cooked really healthy but right but she used

a lot of canola oil and in africa there's this oil called palm oil have you ever heard about it okay yeah we have a lot of palm farms here in costa rica actually yeah so i'm just actually this is this is totally from an aside but what are your thoughts on palm oil because i i know a lot of people that use palm oil heavily in food especially cultural food what are your thoughts on that or do you know anything about let's look up the palm oil it handles really well i know that it's like a little bit like coconut oil i believe i don't personally use it much but i have a lot of family and a lot of like a lot of people from other cultures i think it's one of the less offensive ones but i'm not sure i could be way i think it is if you look at it the composition

of fatty acids i'm looking at it right now so um it's 9.1% linoleic acid, according to this article, 36% oleic acid, which is the monounsaturated fat. It's 4.3% stearic, 43.5% palmitic, 1% myristic. So you have probably about 50-50 saturated monounsaturated with 9% linoleic. So it's much lower linoleic acid than almost any other seed oil out there. Yeah. So you can see the composition and that's, it's very interesting. Yet another reason why Encema is so jacked. Palm oil is probably better. It's not quite as saturated as coconut oil. Yeah. Yeah.

Much less linoleic acid than canola. Maybe just avoid oils in general. Is that a good rule? Even olive oil? Well, that's what I do. People find that position to be pretty controversial. I was joking with my friend Andrew Huberman recently, and he said, well, I've got some avocado or olive oil. And I said, why would you use that? Why would you not use tallow? And he said, well, those are hard to put on a salad. And I said, why would you eat a salad? What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? You're eating leaves, dude?

What kind of shitty hunter are you? Why would you eat leaves? So yeah, I mean, tallow doesn't go on salad very well. It also, it melts just fine. You can put it in any dish you want. You could put tallow on your sweet potato if you wanted, just like you could put butter on your sweet potato. You can melt tallow on a steak just like butter. But yeah, you can't pour tallow onto your salad.

But then again, I'm not a big fan of salad, so it doesn't present a problem just like butter. But yeah, you can't pour tallow onto your salad. But then again, I'm not a big fan of salad, so it doesn't present a problem in this world. What are some convenient ways that we can avoid stuff without moving to Costa Rica, without getting all weird and surfing every day and being barefoot and getting the sun the way that you're enjoying it over there? How can we day-to-day avoid some of these plastics? Because you went through that whole foods thing and even just grabbing a container, it's got the wax on it. Even when you go to the grocery store and you try to avoid all the normal grocery store stuff and you go to the butcher, they're giving you wax paper

and all these kinds of things. Is there any convenient way to avoid all this stuff or do you need to go way out of your way? I think knowledge is power and that's hopefully one of the good things that comes out of the work I do. I constantly get messages from my friends who are kind of pissed. They're like, God damn it. I can't even use my glide floss. And I think you're welcome, dude. You're welcome. Like, did you know that glide floss had perfluoroalkylated substances in it? I mean, nobody's really talking about PFASs, but we can talk about that. It's a rabbit hole I've gone down recently.

They're in a lot of plastic lined things like your cup from Starbucks, the little paper cup you get from Starbucks or wherever you're getting a coffee in a cup that's hot liquid in a cup. The lining of that cup is likely containing PFAs, the microwave popcorn bags, these cardboard with plastic lined. It's not wax, like you're saying, Mark. It's wax paper from the butcher. That's probably better. They're all plastic lined now. And the majority of these do have these PFAS compounds in them, these perfluoroalkylated substances. And I think that probably in the next

five years, we'll begin to see this as the new BPA. Many people have even forgotten about BPA because it's become in vogue to take it out of things. Nevermind that they just replaced it with BPE and BPS and all sorts of other bisphenols that have the same sort of xenoestrogenic qualities, but perfluoroalkylated substances are the same things. I think that there isn't really a convenient way to avoid these things, unfortunately, but that's part of waking up. I mean, that's the world we live in. I often say to people, or I try to say this on my social media, like, look, if you're thriving, if you're kicking ass, don't change anything. Just keep living your life. But the work that I do, and I think probably the work that you guys do, is for people who are

suffering, people that don't have answers, people that go to their doctor and the doctor says, here's a pill. And they say, well, I want to know what't even know about. And that's causing you to retain 10 extra pounds, which is causing you to be a little bit insulin resistant, which is leading to recurrent urinary tract infections or whatever it's leading to, right? So this is the ideas that I want to give people this curiosity to think, oh shit, I've got PFASs in my freaking glide floss. Like, could this be related to my uterine fibroids? We have no idea. There's so much that we need to learn in medicine, but this is the questioning, right? This is getting back to how humans can be optimal and giving people little nuggets of curiosity that they can pursue that will lead them hopefully to better health where they're not getting it before. Because where else are we finding these answers? Western medicine, in my somewhat cynical opinion,

is all too content to just get on to the next exciting, sexy pharmaceutical and doesn't really do enough to get obsessed about the root cause of these things. And as we're looking for the root cause, sometimes we find things that are a problem. And sometimes we find things that are not a big problem for humans, but at least we're asking those questions. So your question is well taken, Mark, but I think that it's about not having it be easy. Convenience is what leads people down the path of ruin. And I think we have to be intentional. And the more intention with which we live our lives, the better we do. You have to know, like, if you're in the jungle, you're not just being convenient. We're like, what's the easy

way for me to walk through the jungle today? No, you're like, there's a freaking poisonous snake over there and a poisonous spider over there and a jaguar in a tree over there. There's no easy way for me to walk through the jungle today. No, you're like, there's a freaking poisonous snake over there and a poisonous spider over there and a Jaguar and a tree over there. There's no easy way to walk through the jungle today. There's no easy way for me to go surfing. It's like, okay, here's a wave coming. That's going to crash on my head. I have to know how to navigate around this. If I have to ditch my board, I have to be able to hold my breath. There's no easy way, you know, it's, it's, it's intention around these things that allows you to live well. And make no mistake, we live in a dangerous world. We live in a jungle today, metaphorically. It's just, it's not a jaguar in the sorts of things that are trying to get you and they're not Jaguars and tigers anymore. They're toxins and evolutionarily inconsistent ways of living in your environment. I would agree with that. Instead of the convenience store, it's the inconvenience store. Cause in the long run, it's going to cost you a lot more

than you think. Yeah. And that's, it kind of creeps up on people too. They feel like, Oh, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Oh, I'm not good. What happened? And it didn't happen overnight, but they don't see that it's the last 20 years of behavior that's gotten them there. So they have to really deconstruct everything in their life to understand how did I get here? simple or convenient, but I think it, you know, I think it really is. Cause I mean, even with the way that you eat and the way that we eat, right. We eat a lot of meat. I mean, Andrew and I, and I think Mark to an extent, I think we cook our food in an air fryer. Like I, I don't, I don't fry anything anymore. Right. Um, I'll eat fruits. I eat some rice here and there, but it's like all the foods are just whole foods that are very easy to cook. And if you can give people kind of an outline for like just eat this way, it tastes really good. It's simple.

Like you end up craving these foods over time. You don't end up buying as much processed foods. And if you do end up going to the whole foods section and eating some of that, it's something you do rarely. It's not something you do every single day. So it can be something that is very simple for people. It's just, will you make the choice to do those things? It's like those little incremental things that become habits. But that's hard.

That is. That's hard for humans. That takes a lot of intention um you know i was thinking about that this morning i woke up for the last few weeks when i wake up before i surf i haven't been looking at my phone for the first 30 minutes i get up i just don't even look at my phone it's still on airplane mode that's really hard for me right now because i was used to getting up looking at the phone who texted texted me, what are the emails, you know, all these things before I surf. And actually, I don't want to see that. I want to go downstairs and I want to move a little bit. I want to do some

like mobility stuff. I do some jump squats, whatever. I get on the balance board. I do pop-ups to get in the right headspace before I go surfing. And then right before I go surfing, maybe 30, 40 minutes in, I'm like going to look at my text messages and know what's up for the day before I go surf. But it's getting easier over time, but it wasn't easy in the beginning. It's like uphill battle. This is like, again, this is Andrew Huberman stuff. It's like an uphill neurological battle. We want that dopamine and you have to have a lot of intention and attention to fighting it off. And then it becomes a habit and it's easier once you get there. But for people who are not there yet, I think it's definitely a rocky uphill stream. There's

nothing convenient about that. What is it like, you know, after being on Joe Rogan and, you know, Rogan brings you up quite a bit now, like everything that you say is picked apart. Like if you look up a Paul Saladino video, there is a Paul Saladino like response video. And I just, I see this more and more. I sent you one the other day and you know, it's, it's very unfair because you're not there to like comment back. You're also saying stuff within context of a conversation and then you move on, you know, especially with Joe Rogan, you start talking about aliens and then you're talking about organic grass fed beef and it kind of goes all over the place. Right. What's it like kind of having that happen nowadays and how do you personally handle it?

I think now I'm good with it. I think that there's a lot of people that won't be swayed. there's a lot of people that won't be swayed. They want their confirmation bias and they want to be on the anti-meat team or the pro-meat team or the pro-vegetables team or the anti-vegetables team. And they're on the anti-vegetables team. They're going to listen to my stuff and go, yay. And I don't want them to do that necessarily. I want them to question what I'm saying too. And if they're on the pro-vegetables team, they'll follow somebody else and be like, look at that guy. He just totally smashed salad, you know? And so it's, you know, I don't know how to, I don't know what to do.

I just, I just do what I do and hope that I know that more people are benefiting from what I do than, than before. And if every day more people benefit, then we're doing the right good work and that's good. And I want people to respond when I'm saying I want people to question my work. I want people to think for themselves. And I think the tricky part for me is figuring out what forum we create to have meaningful conversations with people who disagree with my work that other people can listen to and make a decision about. Because oftentimes, I know you guys had Ids on the podcast recently, and he and I were talking about a debate.

And we're thinking, man, this is going to get so technical so fast. If we debate LDL, for instance, and we're talking, okay, is low-density lipoprotein actually the proximate cause of atherosclerosis? I think a lot of people who are not physicians won't even understand the premise. And so it's like, how do physicians, how do people who are in the scientific world have meaningful conversations with each other in a respectful manner that the lay person can take something away from? It's so hard. I mean, you guys know when I was on your podcast years ago debating Lane Norton, it's like, how do people,

you know, take anything away from that? It gets technical and it gets technical really fast. So I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I do agree with you that it is a little frustrating sometimes to see people take things I'm saying out of context and pull up one study that makes something I'm saying look questionable when in fact there's more nuance there. And it would be an interesting conversation to go down the rabbit hole and talk about why that's not the issue. We can use linoleic acid as a great example here. I think there are a lot of people, I know you guys had a debate between Tucker Goodrich and Alan Flanagan on Power Project. And the people who look at linoleic acid data, like Alan Flanagan, will say, oh, there's so many studies that show that

linoleic acid isn't harmful for humans. But as Tucker pointed out, it just depends how you look at the studies. I mean, there's plenty of good studies showing the more linoleic acid you have in your body, there's more inflammatory markers that go up like HSCRP. Not every inflammatory marker goes up, but there's a trend with HSCRP. And there are some studies with linoleic acid where they give people extra linoleic acid. But the problem is that these are people eating a standard American diet. So they're starting people out at 10% linoleic acid in their diet. That's what the normal American eats. And then they give them 13 or 14% linoleic acid and they don't see any changes. And they say, look, excess linoleic acid isn't bad for humans. So people could take

that study and say, this guy, Paul is full of shit, but what they're not showing you, and this is what would hopefully come up in a respectful conversation between me and those people, are studies that actually do a saturated fat lead-in to the linoleic acid arm of the study. And what they're doing in this, there's a couple of really interesting studies out of, I think it's Sweden,

where they give people a high saturated fat diet before they give them the linoleic acid. So they're essentially saying, we're gonna lower the amount of linoleic acid in your diet down to one or two percent, and then we're going to jack it back up. And those studies look completely differently. We see all sorts of evidence of inflammation, decreased nitric oxide precursors, all sorts of problems with human physiology when you do it that way. But people may not show you that study. So it's good that people are looking at my work and being critical. I want them to think for themselves, but I think that it's

important to understand that whoever is being criticized can't answer back. And there's probably a lot more nuance there. And I want to figure out how to have those conversations meaningfully. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people in the space and I'll say this, I'll say this because it's important to say, who their only work is trolling. They don't actually really present a lot of, I would say, original ideas. They just troll people. And I think that Ids kind of falls into this realm.

His whole perspective, and I respect him and I want him to question my work, but his whole shtick is taking what other people do and saying how dumb they are to do it. It's like, well, that to me, it's like, what are you actually adding? You know, if these people are real charlatans and some people may think I am fine, uh, and they're actually hurting people, then fine. But it's, it's a strange way to operate in the world. Okay. It's what do you think is the actual way forward for humans? How do humans become more healthy? I don't know if I've ever heard him talk about that. And you know, I think a lot of people in the space, they make their

whole space, they make their whole career, quote unquote, by becoming kings of the trolls. And it's like, what are you creating here? You're creating an audience that wants to see you have a gotcha moment for someone. I don't think that moves the space forward. I think what we need to understand for humans is how humans need to live and move in the environment and eat to be optimally healthy. So I try to take a more positive stance toward it. I don't know if I answered your question, Mark. There's a lot of, there's so many good things of what you said there. And I'm really curious, but as far as it's being a troll, I think that's kind of funny, but I do think what he does is actually pretty beneficial because it gets some people to think. Now, when

we think of trolls, we think of people who just like, you know, the troll, like they'll, they'll, they won't go after your ideas. They'll go after the way you look and your tan and your stash or whatever. They'll troll you. But when it is taking part ideas, it gets people to think a little bit more critically about the ideas that are coming forward. And some people will be in the comments agreeing, some people will be in the comments disagreeing, but at the end of the day, they're talking about the idea. They're not talking about, there are going to be some people who are saying Saladino sucks, but it's still mostly about the idea. And that's where it can be really beneficial because if it sparks conversation and thought, that can move the needle forward in a way he it's questioning the idea

you know that's a good thing i think that's very different from a typical troll that's why i just i wanted i wouldn't call the dude a troll you know i might i feel uh talked a lot about like raw stuff like raw dairy and one of the questions i've seen uh pop up in your comment section, people is asking like where to get it. Like people are very confused by, I think they just think like organic milk or then they might think grass fed milk. What's the difference with raw dairy and yeah, where the hell can we get some of it?

So there's a great website, eatwild.com. I have no affiliation with them, but it lists out every state and where you can get dairy and good meat also, like grass-fed meat from local farmers. Statewide regulations for raw dairy vary. So some states it's legal, some states it's not. I can get it here in Costa Rica. But when you go down the research rabbit hole, it's quite interesting. There's some interesting epidemiology. Multiple observational studies show an association between consumption of raw milk in childhood and adulthood and lower rates of asthma, eczema, hay fever, and allergies. So that's fascinating, right? Again, these are observational correlations.

So we can't draw causative inference, but I can't really create many biases or I can't really understand how healthy user bias or unhealthy user bias is going to confound those results. So I find it to be a pretty compelling association. And if you look at the subgroup analyses, if you look at kids who grow up on farms and kids who grow up off of farms, they both benefit from raw milk in terms of these allergic atopic conditions. So there's something going on there, I think. There's a very compelling hypothesis for benefits of raw milk. Now, it's important to point out that there are possible contaminants in raw milk and you want to know the source, but this is just life, right? If you're going to eat any food, whether it's spinach in a bag at the grocery store, or

you're going to eat meat that you're getting in a grocery store, or you're going to eat raw milk, there's always a possibility of contamination. There's been E. coli outbreaks in ground beef, and there's also been bad E. coli outbreaks on spinach in a bag at grocery stores. So if you're going to eat any food raw without cooking the heck out of it, you're going to subject yourself to these things. So know your farmer. I've never had problems with raw milk. I think it's probably the regulation of that is variable from state to state, but there's all sorts of other cool stuff in milk. I mean, we know that whole milk, there's a good, I think this is also observational epidemiology, but if you feed kids whole milk, they end up with less adiposity later in life.

Counterintuitive, right? You give kids more dairy fat as kids and they end up with less adiposity, probably because there are good fats in the milk fat, things like stearic acid and odd chain fatty acids that affects human metabolomics or human metabolism in a positive way. So we've never really talked about benefits of saturated fat. Nobody talks about, oh, I need this stearic acid vitamin or this odd chain fatty acid vitamin, pentadecanoic acid or heptadecanoic acid. But those are, in my opinion, quote unquote, nutrients for humans. So good benefits of whole milk, but I think even more benefits to raw milk. We don't really have great data on which of the nutrients are preserved versus destroyed when you pasteurize milk. Certainly the homogenization

process may destroy some things. I think the biggest benefits to raw milk are probably the probiotic benefits from it. These are naturally occurring probiotics in the milk that probably affect our immune system, affect our gut flora in very good ways, very evolutionarily consistent ways for humans. So if you go to eatwild.com, that's one place. And I think there's a couple of other raw milk websites where you can look for it. But I should also point out that raw cheese is legal everywhere. So if the cheese is aged more than 30 days, you can sell raw cheese. So it doesn't matter what state you're in, whether raw milk is legal or not, you can get raw cheese in the state and you can go to a grocery store like a Whole Foods and they're likely going to have either a Gruyere or an Emmentaler or whatever

that's a raw quote unquote cheese. You just have to read the packaging carefully and it'll say raw milk as opposed to pasteurized milk on the label. I know you're enjoying this episode, but listen up. We partner with Merrick Health. They're a telehealth network owned by Derek for More Plates, More Dates. But literally, the amazing thing about Merrick Health and getting your labs done with them is that when you get your labs done, you work with a client care coordinator that goes over your labs and gives you specific supplementation or nutrition protocols or potentially hormonal protocols for your levels. The problem with a lot of these other telehealth networks is that when they do these things, they give everybody the same exact things, which actually can hurt you long-term more than help you. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at MerrickHealth.com. That's M-A-R-R-E-K-Health.com. And if you already know what labs you want to get at checkout, enter promo code PowerProject10 to save 10% off all of those labs. If you don't know where to start, head over to Merrick health.com slash power

project. And you guys will get directed straight to the power project panel and has 26 different labs that will cover everything you need. And at checkout enter promo code power project to save $101 off of that panel. Again, Merrick health., links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. I'm curious about this because, you know, over time when you first, when you started making a lot of carnivore content, you weren't eating fruit at the time. And then it wasn't recently, but for the past, I don't know how long, you started adding more fruit to your diet. So my curiosity is how do you navigate fruit? Because we've had some individuals that are carnivore that have come on the podcast and they're like very anti-fruit. How do you yourself navigate fruit? And is there anything that you're adjusting your, I guess, your perspective on

as you move forward too? Is there anything like you adding in fruit to your diet that you're experimenting with as far as your diet's concerned? Um, so yeah, the story is that I did strict carnivore for maybe a year and three quarters. And then I ran into all sorts of issues with electrolytes and keto on my podcast, which is called Fundamental Health. I've done a number of episodes recently where I sort of re-discussed this. It's something I've discussed many times. And it's interesting human physiology. And I think it occurs in the majority of humans that when you are in a ketogenic state, you do not have proper insulin signaling, or I should say you don't have adequate insulin signaling at the level of the kidney to hold on to electrolytes. And long-term ketosis for most humans will result in pretty

severe electrolyte abnormalities, sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium, magnesium, et cetera, because of wasting at the level of the kidney. In normal nutritional parlance, people think about insulin as a bad thing. And this to me is nutritional reductionism. It's quite frustrating. Insulin is a very powerful, good hormone for humans. And postprandial, after eating insulin levels, rising is a good thing for so many reasons. It affects sex hormone binding globulin by lowering it. It affects sort of resorption and absorption of nutrients, including electrolytes at the level of the kidney. It affects glutathione positively. We need some, I would posit this, I would suggest humans need postprandial insulin signaling the majority of the time to be optimal humans. We can do it in a ketogenic way for some amount

of time, but it is as I've come to believe, and this is of course is an evolution in my opinion, as I'm continuing to learn long-term ketosis is a suboptimal state for humans. And you know, Mark, Mark was telling me this from the beginning. He's like, why are you not eating fruit, dude? But so I incorporated fruit and honey in my diet, maybe two and a half, three years ago now, and continued to check my blood work, wore multiple continuous glucose monitors, checked my fasting insulin probably six times

over the last three years, two and a half years, C-peptide levels, HSCRP levels. And the fasting insulin is the same as it was when I was a strict carnivore. It's 2.4 micro IU per ml. The C-peptide is very low. It's another fragment of insulin that gives you just another indication of your insulin sensitivity. And I think that fasting insulin test is the single greatest mover in our Western medicine.

We can talk about that later. And then if you wear a continuous glucose monitor, what you see when I do this is that my fasting blood sugar, my fasting blood sugar is lower than on a ketogenic diet. And you get a spike with eating, you get a postprandial glucose and presumably insulin spike. And then it returns to baseline probably within the hour, which is a sign of good insulin sensitivity. This is what we call the glucose area under the curve. We can extrapolate or at least imagine an insulin area under the curve to correlate with that. And you get good insulin sensitivity.

You just get a postprandial insulin and glucose spike, which leads to good, healthy human physiology. So I now am living at the equator, essentially, and I have a lot of amazing fruit available to me. I have papayas growing in my yard. I have coconuts. At least for the water of the coconut, I have bananas. By the way, have you noticed the difference with the fruit there versus the fruit

here? Because people always say that. What do you notice? Well, it's just better here. Okay. It's not even a question. Like, I mean, you can, there's, there's like on my way to the beach, I passed three mango trees. You know, you can stop on the side of the road and pick up a mango and eat it off a tree. Um, there's a star fruit tree in my yard which is an interesting fruit there's you know there's a guy on the side of the road selling fruit there's multiple farmers markets where you can get fruit that they say is organic the certifications here a little bit who knows but they say that it's organic i try and get as much organic fruit as i can but i mean it's the best fruit i've ever had so i eat i eat as much fruit as I feel like my body is craving.

I probably have, I mean, today I will eat a pineapple, an entire pineapple, probably two large mangoes. I will have an entire papaya and maybe another half a papaya. And then I'll probably have, ooh, maybe four tablespoons of honey. So we're looking at 200 to 300 grams of carbohydrates now for me and a fasting insulin of 2.4. Oh, man, I wish I still had the text messages from my old phone.

Oh, my God. I told this guy about 300 or 400 carbs. I'm like, just try it for a day. You'll be so shocked what it will do to you. And he's like, fruit is porn. He's like, I'm not going down that road. I remember. Yeah.

Yeah, fruit is pornography. I remember that. Fruit is porn. Stop jerking off over there. Yeah, man. It's interesting. It's good to learn. I mean, yeah.

It's fucking awesome is what it is. I think it's great. I think it's great. I don't know anybody else on the internet that's like, you know, maybe there's some other people, but you really, you have changed your opinion. You went for something different. You found it to work better for you now, and now you're doing it. It's fucking awesome. And you know that there's a lot of interesting research on fructose and the negative effects of fructose. So we can't deny this. And I think that when I was writing my book, The Carnivore Code,

which feels like a decade ago, even though it was only a few years ago, I was just really had the blinders on and I was only seeing the research about the negative effects of fructose. And you'll hear people in low carb, pro low carb communities talking about this research today.

And this is the type of thing we were talking about earlier. Somebody could take a video of mine where I'm pro fruit and show a study that says, hey, look at this study that associates fruit with an increased rate of NAFLD or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. And it makes it look like, hey, there's a gotcha, right?

But what they're not telling you is that in that study, there actually was a study that just came out looking at fruit and NAFLD. I think it was an Iranian study. When you read the study, what they find is that they compared a group of people with less than two servings of fruit per day to a group of people with four or more servings of fruit per day. What they classified as fruit were, quote unquote, quoting from the abstract now, colored fruits. Okay. I think I know what that is. Dried fruit and quote, other fruit. Well, what is other fruit? Is other fruit peaches in a can with added sugar? Is other fruit... I don't even know what other fruit is. What is other fruit, right? Is other fruit a fruit bowl? other fruit is. What is other fruit, right? Is other fruit a fruit bowl? Is other fruit acai with added sugar? And we know that dried fruit, especially cranberries and a lot of dried fruit,

has added sugar. So here we have a study where the methodology leaves a lot of questions about what they're doing. And there's a lot of other research. It's impossible for anyone to represent the full breadth of research in any hot take. I get it. But there's lots of other research with fruit saying it doesn't seem to be bad for humans at all. You can put humans on a diet that gets rid of processed fructose. This is Rick Johnson's work. And they do really good. People who are obese lose weight, their liver fat goes down, liver inflammation goes down. And you can take those same people who you have removed fructose from their diet and give them back four to 500 calories of fruit per day. So we're looking at

100 plus calories of, you know, 100 plus grams of carbohydrates from fruit per day. And they don't have any problems. They don't have any abrogation. There's no loss of the benefits of removing processed fructose. So it's hard to represent all of that when somebody's criticizing me. And it's hard to understand that this is a big breadth of the research. But again, this is my roundabout answer to you and Seema where I'm saying, I eat a lot of fruit. I love it. I eat a ton of honey. I eat as much as I want. Yeah, it's great. It's amazing here. With that, can you still be called a carnivore? He's fake carnivore.

Yeah, of course. I mean, i think that this is where we get into i mean i thought about the same thing i was like should i change my name and i was like look are we really gonna be that you know are we gonna split hairs here like i don't really i don't even talk about quote unquote a carnivore diet anymore but i have heard people say you know when andrew was on joe's podcast recently he says joe i know you eat fruit as part of your carnivore diet like okay look i'm running with it. Like, I just want people to benefit. I call it animal-based now.

I think that that's a better term, but how do we name things? Who knows? So I call it animal-based to be organs, either fresh or desiccated, meat, fruit, honey, raw dairy. That's what I think is animal-based. That's what I'm much more a fan of.

When people message me, sometimes I'll get messages from people, whether it's, you know, I mean, George St. Pierre messaged me a while ago. We're doing a collaboration with Heart and Soil now. And he said, hey, I want to do the carnivore diet. And I said, yeah, include fruit in the diet. And he said, okay. And Andrew Huberman says he's going to do carnivore. And I say, yeah, include fruit. He goes, yeah, that's what I mean. I'm going to include fruit on my carnivore diet. I think that like, there is some degree of dogmatism and I think we can, like, we don't really need to split hairs here. Like if animal based is a better word, we should call it that. But look, I've been carnivore indeed my whole career in, in, in the, in the space. I'm just going to stay that. And if people want to be like, he's an omnivore,

I'm like, fine. Like, what's your point? When's the last time you had like a pizza or something like that? Cheat days are bullshit, Mark. You know that. Probably, it's been a long time, brother. Piece of bread. 17 years. 17 years ago, maybe. 15 years ago. It's been a long ass time. 16 years ago. And at this point, you probably don't really have cravings, right? Like you, cause you, especially with the fruit and the honey in

there and stuff like that. And you got dairy. So there's probably like almost, you don't feel a need to eat anything else. What about ice cream? You have anything, uh, pop up that where you're like, eh, I'm going to have raw organic ice cream or whatever. Well, I made animal-based ice cream. So I think we posted about that. We took raw cream from a local producer. I added like colostrum from hardened soil. I had some powdered colostrum from hardened soil. I added egg yolks.

And what else did I add? I added some mango and I just put it in the blender and the raw cream. And it was really good. I don't really crave that. I think raw dairy is probably one of my favorite things ever, especially if you add honey or fruit to it. But yeah, I don't get cravings anymore at all. Uh, a pizza doesn't even bother me. Uh, I, I could walk by it all day. I'll never eat pizza for the rest of my life is a pretty safe statement to make. And a big part of that is probably just because of the amount of like, you're, you're eating a good amount of food every day, right? Like you're consuming a good amount

of calories. Yeah. I don't, I don't believe in restricting calories. Do you even fast at all? Huh? Like, do you even do any fasting at all anymore? Not really. No. Okay. Okay. So this is a whole, this is a whole interesting rabbit hole to go down. So when I had my recent labs drawn, my IGF-1 was 112, which is 0.5 standard deviations less than the average. So right now I probably eat, I get up in the morning and I have my first food before I surf. So usually it's about 6 AM, but I literally drink honey out of a jar and then I go surf for a few hours and then I come back and at nine or 10, I'll eat breakfast, which is organs, either fresh or desiccated from hardened soil, meat, butter, fruit, honey, and raw dairy, more butter. And then I'll eat a second time in the night and I'll try and finish eating around five or 5.30. But I also go to sleep really early here in Costa

Rica because it gets dark at 6.15 every day all year round. Wow. That's nice. Yeah, it's really interesting. The circadian rhythms here are quite fascinating. And the sun comes up at 4.45 or 5. So this morning I was up at 4.45 in the morning. So that's just my schedule now with surfing.

So I eat really early. So if you look at it, I probably have a, I would say an 11 or it's like an 11 hour eating window or a 12 hour eating window. And then a 12 hour fasting window. I don't think any, um, any person in the fasting community would say that I'm doing intermittent fasting with a 12 and 12. Like that, that's no, that wins you no points in the fasting community, but I don't eat right before I go to sleep. And I'm certainly not eating. I'm not eating in a bigger window than I am fasting, but it's probably, it's probably reasonably about 11 hours of eating and 13 hours of overnight sleep. Maybe it's 12 and 12 some days, but I don't actually worry about it

too much because I'm insulin sensitive, right? My fasting insulin is 2.4 and my IGF-1 was less, it's, you know, it's less than the average. And I eat, you know, pounds of meat per day, multiple ounces of organs a day, two to 300 grams of carbohydrates. People in the quote longevity community, which is just kind of a hilarious thing for me today, um, would just, you know, they would shit a brick. They would shit a, they would shit a, I don't even know what they would shit. They would shit a you know, they would shit a brick. They would shit a, they would shit a, I don't even know what they would shit. They would shit a calorie restricted brick. They would shit a prolon bar or something. Walter Longo is over there like crapping his pants with his fasting mimicking bricks. And, and, but I'm, I mean like I want to put this out there in a Twitter space and be like,

David Sinclair, what is your IGF one? I bet mine's lower. You know, Walter Longo, like show me your IGF-1. Like I could be wrong about this, but I would be willing to wager, you know, a significant amount of ribeyes or whatever we want to wager that my fasting insulin and my IGF-1 are less than Sinclair's or Walter Longo's. And those are the best metrics that I know of for longevity prediction. So why would I, why would I fast more when, you know, by not fasting, I feel like I'm getting, um, improvements in my thyroid improvements and my hormones improvements in my testosterone, my sleep, my libido, my mental clarity, my strength, my overall muscle performance. Like, uh, we'll never know who's going to live longer and how much longevity I'll have until we're all old and gray. And then we can look back and be like, I told you so or I was wrong.

This is the whole sort of comedy of the longevity hubris. It's like you can't prove this, guys. Is there any evidence towards liver king statements in terms of liver helping liver, heart helping heart, and so on? This is a really interesting question. So, Mark, we have a German textbook that I believe is in customs right now as we're speaking. And this is the majority of the research that has been done on organs, on radio-labeled organs. It's a 500 page book. And this is where most of the claims come from. And we're going to translate it and see if we can find the science to back this up. What we know is that there are certain peptides that occur in certain organs.

And so liver has hepatic peptides, you know, hepatocyte growth factors in liver. And then we also know that many peptides will pass through the stomach undigested. We've seen this with collagen peptides. We've seen this with other peptides. So there's a lot of interesting stuff here. People take things like a BPC-157 orally for their gut. So there's, if there are peptides, which is probably what's going on, that are specific for the liver that can pass through the gut and get into the bloodstream or get absorbed, there's a real possibility here. Can we say it with absolute certainty? No, we need to go back and look at this research that's been done from like maybe in the 60s or

70s. And it's mostly this German research. And I believe it was IV. So I think that what they did was they took organ extracts that were radio labeled and they injected them IV. But if you can show that the IV administration of an organ leads to accumulation of some of those pieces of that organ in that organ, then you're kind of like at least three-fourths of the way there. Because the idea that you could absorb some of those things through your gut is not the question. It's the idea that there's actually things that go to those places. I don't know. Hopefully, we'll find some answers about whether that's true or not.

Maybe it's an antiquated idea that was kind of based on voodoo and hand-waving. But I think what we know for sure is that liver, testicle, and heart, or these organs, have unique nutrients that are not really found in muscle meat or kale or broccoli or spinach or mangoes. And so in that case, it's like, well, I think you should still eat them. Even if the liver doesn't necessarily go to the liver, we're not sure yet. I think it's still beneficial for humans to eat those things like coenzyme Q10, choline, biotin, folate, riboflavin, these unique peptides. They're still pretty valuable for humans. And we see that when people add the organs to their diet, either fresh or desiccated, like we make it hard in soil,

they feel better. I think that at least anecdotally and subjectively, there is something going on with nutritional quality and nutritional robustness when the organs get out of back. If we can't get hormones from food, then why will they sometimes at the grocery store or why will people sometimes say these animals will never fed, they were never fed steroids and they were never fed antibiotics. So if you can't get the hormone from the animal, then why are those things said? Do you have any idea what that's about?

You know, I think this is really interesting. And for a while there, I was asking questions of meat producers, like white oak pastures, how many of the cows are male and how many of the cows are females? Is there more testosterone in a bull if you eat the bull meat versus a cow with more estrogen? I don't know. This to me is really interesting. I don't know if anybody's ever done these analyses. Like as a man, should I be eating male animals? Certainly when I kill a deer, I eat the testicles. And when I can get bull testicles, I eat them. There's no question that there's testosterone in bull testicles.

Like we've done this analysis, like a testicle contains testosterone. This is not rocket science. You know, a desiccated testicle contains testosterone. There's no question about this. So like, I think we just need, this is where the frontier of nutritional science is like, I'll inject it. I'll give it a shot. Like, I think we just need, this is where the frontier of nutritional science is. Like, a diet can pass through the gut. I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. Literally. A peptide can pass through the gut.

Like, I'm pretty sure if you eat testosterone, that some of that is going to get absorbed and is going to affect your body. Like, I mean, people take, what, they take like terkesterone now orally? Like, they steroid analogs. And there's phyto estrogens and some plastics and that has a negative impact so maybe yeah yeah you know i don't maybe you don't want to be i mean we know through the skin for sure you know like you wouldn't want to put estrogen cream on you like you wouldn't want to put testosterone cream unless you were intending to get those side effects they They've even talked about the fact that

developing boys and girls probably shouldn't be using lavender scents on pillows and bed sheets and towels. Because we know that lavender has a phytoestrogenic compound in it. This is one of the things, this is like just the beginning of the iceberg of how fascinating plant compounds are and potentially how we shouldn't ignore how their compounds could be beneficial for us or harmful. So we shouldn't do those things. I don't want to eat lavender. You know, I don't want to ingest phytoestrogenic compounds if I can avoid it as much as possible. I also don't want to ingest too many phytoandrogenic compounds if I want to, you know, I don't want to get like a ton of androgens from plants if I'm not intending to do that. So there's a lot here. And I think that there's a lot more that we need to discover, but clearly there are hormones and

peptides in these organs that are, that are powerful for humans. And I think we need to understand how much of them actually pass through the gut and get into the bloodstream. And then the second piece is once they're in the bloodstream, is there some sort of a chaperone protein or something that brings it to the liver? It's an interesting idea. bloodstream? Is there some sort of a chaperone protein or something that brings it to the liver? It's an interesting idea. And there's also just simply vitamins and minerals in like the heart, right? That has CoQ10. And I think there's a lot of people that will suggest CoQ10 for people that are trying to have a healthier heart. Things of that nature, right? Things of that nature. There's unique peptides for the heart. There's peptides we find only in the heart. I think it's dwarf, the something open reading frame peptide. The dwarf peptide,

I think, is heart specific. There's ergothionine in liver. It also occurs in some plant foods, but there's all sorts of interesting compounds in these organs that we don't see a lot of other places. I know you're waiting for the research, but what does your gut tell you? What do you think you'll probably find? I mean, I know you don't want to say factually, but what are you assuming right now without the research yet? Well, I mean, there was a book, there's a 500 page book published in German

from like historically about injecting radio labeled extracts of organs into, I believe it's animals, but also humans and seeing that radio labeled isotope in the organ. So there's some reason that people thought this, we need to go back and look at the methodology and be like, what are they doing here? And is it actually statistically significant or like,

you know, are they putting in crazy doses or could we achieve this? I don't know. Like you have to look at it and be like, I don't know what this guy did. He's in Germany and I don't know, maybe 70 years ago. I have no idea what's going on. Yeah. So, but there is something that people were at least curious about.

So it's possible. But I think like Mark said, and like I said, um, I don't think that the benefits of organs hinge on that necessarily. It's like, there's so many other benefits nutritionally from getting these in our diet like it's an interesting thing because if you eat liver and it actually goes to your liver that's pretty freaking cool if you eat testicles and it does support your testicles that's wild and and the fact that there is testosterone in testicles we can we can already basically say that eating testicle supports your testicle in some way,

or at least testicular function. If you figure out something, dudes are going to just be eating dicks all day long. Balls all day, bro. I'm going to eat those nuts, man. What happens when you eat pussy? This we know. This we know. There is testosterone in balls balls it's in there

whether they're fresh or desiccated there's testosterone in there for i think that's the first way they made synthetic testosterone wasn't it from testic bull testicles i believe i'll trust you oh i i was really curious about this because we did an episode on alcohol recently. None of us really drink that much. If there's ever a time I'll drink, it's maybe I'll have a drink when I go out with people. But you made a video about how alcohol is poison and like there's like no room for it, right? So I'm curious because it doesn't seem like you drink much. But what should people be careful about when ingesting alcohol?

Because some people, you know, if they like to go out in social settings and grab a bottle of wine or glass or, you know, a can of beer or something, what is it doing to them? And how could they navigate it a bit more safely rather than just potentially avoiding it altogether, even though that would be the ideal scenario. Yeah, I think the most interesting part of that video about alcohol, and this is what's kind of fun about doing this work is that you stumble upon ideas as you're doing the video, was the idea, the thing that I wanted to get across in that video most was I think people sell themselves short.

And maybe this is all touchy feely feel good, but I wanted people to, to think about the fact, my message to them was you are attractive enough. You are funny enough. You are cool enough without that alcohol. And, and that, that was my challenge to them. Like you don't need that alcohol to be a valuable human. Um, need that alcohol to be a valuable human. Um, your friends should appreciate you whether you drink or not. Um, and you are attractive enough to the opposite or the same sex, you know, without that alcohol and the decisions you make, um, should be, you know, maybe should be made in a state that, that isn't influenced by alcohol. Or if you're, you know, if you have social anxiety or something like confront that with the healthy, without the alcohol, don't use that as a crutch. There's no question from

the medical literature that alcohol creates oxidative stress in the liver and the liver has the ability to detoxify it somewhat, but you are essentially ingesting a toxin. And if you ingest too much of it, then the liver's capacity is overwhelmed and it circulates in the body and affects the brain negatively. And it's not a good thing for humans. Yeah. I particularly don't like alcohol personally because I like to do things that are balance related. And I remember in medical school, which was the last time that I had a drink of alcohol, I was actually running for class president my first year of medical school.

Did it pause? No, you're good. You're good. Oh, can you not hear us? Maybe. Well,

now he paused. Oh, I paused. Okay. We back and we're back. I'm back. Sorry. Um,

I was running for class president my first year of medical school. And I think in order to ingratiate myself with some of my comrades, I had like half a beer. Half a beer. What's going on? Half a beer. We got you back now. Half a beer. Half a beer. All right. But I haven't had beer since then. You know, it's going to create stress in the liver. It's going to create stress in the body. And it also negatively affects the brain. At least in chronic excessive alcohol users, we see cerebellar atrophy, which is the sort of like small part of the brain at the base of the skull here that controls balance. And so I didn't want to do anything that could negatively affect my ability to move and balance. Got it.

Oh, okay. He's not. I thought he was frozen for a second. I was like, is he going to say anything? Okay. Hey,

thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. Um, in kind of wrapping this thing up. Uh, what about plant medicines? Have you ever messed around with that at all? Like a mushroom or something like that? Mushrooms,

kratom, anything like that? I've used, I've used, uh, psilocybin a few times in mushrooms. It's powerful. I felt really connected to the earth. It was great.

I haven't done it in a couple of years. I think DMT is interesting in ayahuasca. I know iboga is really powerful for people with addictions. I think there's a very powerful future of psychedelics in the realm of addictions and trauma for humans. I think it's super powerful and it's valuable. I think that one part of my sort of thinking that may get lost in the fray is that I don't

debate the power of plants as medicines, but what I want to challenge people in the nutrition space and doctors to understand is the risks and benefits of plants and plant compounds when it comes to nutritional value. Like are plants food or are they medicine? I think they're clearly medicine and they're used as medicine throughout our antiquity, throughout our history. But are they food? I'm not sure they make the best foods for humans or the way they've been elevated. You know, I think that we need to reorder the sort of totem pole, the hierarchy of food quality for humans so that we can say, okay, these are the most important foods for humans.

These are the least important foods for humans. I kind of turned the whole thing on its head, right? Meat and organs at the top, vegetables at the way bottom, or not even on the, on the, on the really ranking. What about any room for chocolate? Chocolate is really high in oxalates and it's got, it's got, I think it's got a lot of issues for humans. All right. All right. Where can people get your book and where can people buy your supplements and all that good stuff so join us for animal base 30 it's our free animal base challenge at heart and soil so you can

go to animalbase30.com to sign up for that if you want to get more organs you can go to heart and soil.co the book is available everywhere on amazon um but i will say that the the more up-to-date stuff is probably just the social media, the Instagram, the YouTube videos, the podcast. The book still has a lot of good stuff, but man, it's so hard when you write a book, you like inscribe something on a pyrus and these stone tablets. And it's like, man, that's a piece, that's a snapshot of the way I thought about things. A lot of things are the same. Some things have changed. I think it's still valuable for people, but there's a lot of evolving thinking that is more present in social media and podcasts.

Five years from now, you're going to recognize how awesome that book is because you're going to come back around to it probably full circle. I think that's what happens with our ideas a lot of times. It's just learning, man. I just want to be learning and I think we got to figure out how to help people share ideas more so that we can get more of this good dialogue. But it's good to see you guys. I miss you. All right, man. Catch you later. See you. See you, brother.

Later. See you guys. Peace. Couldn't let him talk too bad about chocolate. He had to cut that shit off. Chocolate is healthy. Eat as much of it as you like in any form that you like it. Human or chocolate.

You're going to start eating up them testicles? Amen. I really wanted to try it. Probably try a black belt faster probably i've really wanted to try testicles though because you've mentioned that it's kind of like scallops i really like scallops yeah scallops is that thing that we ate in um yeah it's like a it's like a it's like in a big bucket a big meaty shrimp thing almost over those muscles those were musclessels. Those were really good. Look up scallops real quick. They're like big, white.

They're so good. They're little like round. Whenever I get sushi, I always like get rolls that have scallop and I always want extra scallop. Scallop is just, it's melt in your mouth. Yeah, they're really good. Whoa, they look like little biscuits. Everyone says they get like overcooked and they can get a little rubbery. But that's about, that's the only bad thing you can do to them, really. Man, Saladino, that's really cool.

Like people, some people would probably are probably maybe clowning on him because he's eating fruit or something. That looks gross. Okay, well, you don't need to. Don't do that, man. You don't need to see what it is before it goes on the plane. It's a flying saucer. Looks like a monster that carnivore carnivore carnival right where you spin in circles have you guys ever seen the horror movie it was real campy back in the early

2000s about the girl with the monster vagina um it was like it was like talk about devil vagina dentata vagina type in vagina dentata because that was what it was called in the movie. It was a vagina that would eat. She would have sex. Her vagina would eat the dick. Oh my God. Yeah. But then it turned into, I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody.

So I won't say the ending. So vagina dentata is the Latin word for toothed vagina. Yeah. Now type in vagina dentata movie so that people can get the title of this movie because it's a classic sam showed it to me yeah we watched it it's great is it just called teeth teeth there you go is it at least like trimmed or shaved you didn't ever see but aim that movie was horrible because when when you know a good movie for young guys to watch yes just in case yes when it chomped the

dick off you could see it showed like wow showed the dick on the floor it was pretty rough so teeth great horror film hilarious watch it that's terrifying it is terrifying think of watching that as like a 10 year old boy and then i think i never let that fuck you up? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. We should watch that as part of the Power Project show. Just do a reaction show? Yeah. We're just... God damn. How do we get on this topic?

I don't know. Oh, God. But how much longer until Saladino's just tracking his macros and fitting it all in and then circling back? He's like, I had potatoes today. I had six ounces of that and half a cup of rice. No. But what he's doing is making a lot of sense.

I mean, who just came on this podcast was like, I eat meat and fruit. Yeah. Dre. Dre's the same. Like, like there is a difference between eating fruit and eating fucking Oreos and cereal and all this type of shit.

Right. And I think it's funny because the last time, the earlier years ago when we had like salad, you know, and Sean Baker on, we continue to ask the question how about fruit fruit doesn't seem that bad right boom now he's eating fruit which is amazing man so sean baker's still going though hey but it's fine i mean i'm just saying like yeah he's the og

he is the og sean baker doesn't count he's a mutant he kind of is. He's a mutant. He kind of is. He really is a mutant. He's amazing. He's like an elite athlete at 54. I know. Yo. Yeah. And he doesn't take anything, man. That's a fucking animal. That's a fucking animal.

God damn animal. You know, I just love these conversations. I think it's just useful. Like, it's useful to think about, like, you know, what are these things doing to our body? And it's good to just, I don't know, like we'll never really know. We'll never know, no. But we can know with as much certainty as we can and then we can move forward from there. And I think what you said in the beginning is really important.

Like don't be overly worried about it. Quinn, a lot of times my daughter, she'll ask me about like certain foods. She likes the naked juices and she usually gets like the smaller one. And she's like, what's up with this? You know, she'll just ask me sometimes what's, you know, and I said, well, it's a great choice cause you chose a smaller one. She's kind of looks at me kind of funny. And then like, you know, 10 minutes later I go into it like even more cause I'm like,

well, Hey, about that fruit. And I just give her information about it. Yeah. It's just nice to be able to share stuff like that with your kids and to be able to just kind of lay it out there. And I said, you know, the worst thing that you can do is to look at anything and think that it's going to make you fat. I'm going to make you fat. everything can fit in the confines of your day very easily, depending on how much energy you're spending and what you're doing.

But there's really no reason to think, I can't have that. I can't do this. I can't do that. Instead, focus in a little bit more on the things that you feel are going to be more nutritious that are going to steer you away from eating things like pizza and ice cream just because those things are easy to overeat on. And over time, if you do overeat, that is going to make you fat. So that's what I was talking to her about at the airport the other day. And she was kind of laughing.

She's like, yeah. She goes, if I eat certain things, she's like, it doesn't fill me up so i just rather not even eat it and i said there you go fucking great that's hard to comprehend though because it's like oh it didn't fill me up so i'm just gonna have like 10 but yeah we can't figure that out but she did yeah my mind goes crazy i I got to be really careful. Take us on out of here, Andrew. I sure think. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode.

Please drop us a comment down below on anything you found interesting in today's conversation. And please subscribe if you guys are not subscribed and hit that old like button on your way out. Please follow the podcast at MPPowerProject on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. My Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter is at IamAndrewZ and Seema, where you at? We're going to get to 2,000 on Discord relatively soon because we're past 1,800. So guys, go check out the Discord. Description. Link in description. Let us know how mad you are about Paul Saladino being a fake carnivore.

Fake carnivore. What a fake ass. It's not animal bays. See all that fruit in the background? Man. Eating all those carbs. Jesus. Hella carbs. Plants are trying to kill us. He's going a lot of fruit in the background. Man, eating all those carbs. Jesus. Hella carbs. Plants are trying to kill us.

He's going to be so fat. But not fruits. Fruits aren't trying to kill us. Well, never mind. That's me ending on Instagram and YouTube. That's me yin-yang

on TikTok and Twitter. I'm Mark. I'm at Mark Smiley Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.