Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 77 - Rob "Spray" Macintyre

Episode Date: June 26, 2018

Today's guest, straight from Hard Nocks South, is none other than Rob Macintyre. Rob is a strength coach to many professional athletes, including Olympic Medalists and world record holding Power Lifters. He, Mark Bell and John Cena go way back and have shared some interesting moments with one another. Rewatch the Live Stream: https://youtu.be/oCjbPDt3VhY ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

Jail for impersonating a criminal? I've never seen that before. Yeah. That one's a weird one. It was a bad life decision. Was it the 80s? A lot of people made a bad mistake, a lot of mistakes in the 80s. It wasn't, they don't treat you in jail like, I'll leave it at that.

I don't like the way it was treated. It was disrespectful, to say the least. Rob McIntyre. That's me. I don't even the way it was. It was disrespectful, to say the least. Rob McIntyre. That's me. I don't even know who that is. I only know you as Spray. You know me by... An alien.

I haven't heard it in a long, long time. Yeah, what happened? What is this name? That was a nickname I had at boarding school when I was in high school. To all boys? Set the stage first. You're in the shower. It was not.

It was a... After gym class, I'm listening. It was actually in the weight room. I got my Juergens. I got my lotion. Keep going. You're in the weight room. It's not nearly as exciting. Ben over Rose?

As you think. Ben over Rose? And this is the reason I don't tell it, because it's not a good story. Oh. It's, there was some herbal Weider brand

energy spray that you're supposed to spray. Some twin lab. I think it was Weider brand actually. Oh, okay.

And something like 20 or 30, something ridiculous. And so people were passing it around. What do they call that? What do they call that? You spray it under your tongue or something and they're like, I know what you're talking about.

I don't know. I mean, it was a long time ago. Disgusting. Probably tasted disgusting. People were passing it around. I looked at it and saw how much it had been sprayed a few times. I'm like, this is stupid. I opened up the bottle and just drank the bottle.

So that just became a nickname from then on. Oh, I thought it was going to be like you were like dead lifting. No, I wish it was a good story, but that's all there is to it. I thought it was going to be like you were dead lifting and you went to lift the weight and you couldn't get the weight off the ground. And then you just blew ass like against the wall and just sprayed it and covered it in poo. See, that's a good story. But unfortunately, the truth is more boring than the fiction. ass like against the wall and just sprayed it and covered it in poo. See, that's the good story. No.

But unfortunately the, the truth is more boring than fiction. And I thought like there was another situation I thought where there's like a female tied up and then it's spray. And then I just, I, you know, I don't know. I just, one thing led to another. Andrew and I are very excited and now we're,

now we're let down. And that wouldn't happen because I have a medical condition known as dejaculation. So it's a weird suction thing that goes on that I don't want to get into. De-jacked, huh? Yeah. You look pretty jacked for being de-jacked. How long ago did you get into lifting and how did that whole thing get started?

As far as I remember, I was always interested in strength. I was always interested in strength and I was a tall skinny kid that was kind of strong for my size and once I started working out I I didn't know what I was doing but I'm someone who really needs to understand everything. So I got my hands on some kind of a book from the 80s on bodybuilding, and I can't remember what it's called, but it had all the early to mid-80s bodybuilders in it and actually had good sections on each body part, like describing the muscle and what it does. And I was too young to fully comprehend it, but I read it over and over.

So I understood everything and started working out and was kind of good at it. And then it was like this, I never had any like mentors or anything like that. So it was a search for how to actually do it. Cause I had this feeling the magazines and stuff were all wrong. It seemed like, yeah, it's three sets of 10. Everyone. No, this isn't right. Look at those guys.

Right. You know? Then. So, uh, I got, I not sure how old I was, but I think for Christmas I got Fred Hatfield's, um, power. Dr. Squat. Yep.

And, uh, that changed the way I thought, like it was the epiphany of like it's cellular biology and stuff like that. What's wrong with us? Why do these things happen to us at such young ages? I don't know. Like weren't other normal kids trying to like get chicks. We're like, man, if I could just think about some way I can make my legs grow, that'd be so awesome.

Well, I think it's maybe something to do with realizing you can manipulate your own body or something like that. Yeah. And I guess early on getting a, uh, a sense of like how much 200 pounds is, and is that good? You know, I just really hope for my kids. I hope they find something that they want to improve at, you know,

like I, the level, the level of crazy that I've gotten over the years about lifting. Now I'm not talking about like, you know, banging my head on a bar or anything. I just meant like, you know,

the level of depth that I've dove into a lot of these things, reading these different magazines. I was never really a big science guy. I'm not a studies guy. I didn't really dive into that kind of stuff, but, uh, communicating with the best in the world, communicating with the best bodybuilders, the best power lifters. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, going through a lot of articles and, and books and just being, I just remember seeing like uh whenever i saw something

new or different i was like i need i need to get i need to get that what is that yeah a new book from somebody or a new supplement um so right now you have a gym uh tell us a little bit about the gym and kind of how that whole thing came to be the gym is hard knock South and it's named after a guy. Well, there's a Hard Knocks gym named after Dave Knock who started it in the 60s, I believe. And he's no longer around. He is no longer around. He's he was a great guy and had the attitude of extremely hard work, you know, and that's kind of through all the science and stuff I'm into. Like that's my bottom line is like, just shut up and get to work. It's a long, boring process, but you know,

the people who work hard tend to get ahead in the gym. Paint us a picture of what that gym looked like. Did you used to train at that gym? I trained there occasionally. Yeah. So John Cena trained there, uh, growing up. John Cena. We need the music.

Well, you did it right there. Oh, okay. There we go. So, um, it was, uh. He's right here, by the way. And you know what? This is bullshit. And I sent him a picture of this.

Cause this is like, I, uh, check the weights on this and this is i forget these are 75 pounds this is like it's not regulation no this is like 900 something pounds i know he's a strong guy but someone didn't do their research dude i called him out on it and he he got mad at me you know how emotional he can be. Oh yeah, of course. He stresses over every little detail. I'm kidding, of course. John Cena doesn't care about that kind of bullshit. Anyway. Who's your other guy? Jesus.

So both JC. That's why they're there. JC. JC and JC. So anyways, it's like a warehouse type gym. That's what I always liked, you know? And, uh, I guess I learned early on that's

where you go if you're serious, no matter what kind of skinny kid I was. It looked like the gym that, uh, Lou Fregno went into and pumping iron to kind of have that feel to it. Do you remember that? Kinda, but the ceilings are lower. Like it's hard to do overhead lifts in there,

you know? The kind of gym that just looks like it smells. You're like, that gym looks like it stinks. That's when you know you got a good setup. Yeah, yeah. So, um, found a warehouse and, uh, made a gym and that's pretty much, uh, kind of, uh, put it together with that idea of like, is, is the attitude the place has, you know, much like super training, right. That's what really makes a good gym. And it's not, uh, uh, you know, I'm not saying it's like a tough guy attitude, but it's just like,

you're going there if you're serious, you know? Right. Well, the pictures on the wall, I mean, they're not, you know, they're not, uh, it's the things that can't be faked. I mean, there it's, uh, people that have been in there and it seems like a lot of, uh, life has been lived inside that gym. Like the, when I went there and saw the photos on the wall, obviously there's old photos of old, old lifters, uh, Ed Cohn and, uh, you know, all these legendary lifters from the past and bodybuilders. Um, but then there's your, your, uh, clientele, the people that you work with.

Tell us a little bit about that. Who, who are these people you're working with? Well, nowadays the, uh, talent from the WWE has taken over my life. And, um, so I have a lot of them, which. Talent, we're talking about girls, right? Uh, well, talent by definition would also encompass men. Oh. You know, the level of talent might be different.

Disappointing. So, uh, that's pretty much what I do. And it's a weird thing because, you know, it's not always in the gym. Wrestling is fake. These guys don't need to train. They train for real. They might wrestle fake, but they train for real. And so that's kind of where, you know, being a strength coach, my thing was like strength and power type athletes.

And I also knew a bit about bodybuilding and all that. So it's an easy thing to blend. How important does the strength become for some of these guys? I mean, uh, you know, I've seen John Cena pick up, uh, the giant, you know, he's like, I don't know how much he weighs, 500 pounds, according to the WWE. Um, and some of these guys are shoulder pressing some of these other athletes over their head. And I mean, they, they must be, have to be pretty strong to perform some of the moves that they do. And then I'd imagine that the strength is probably even more important just for recovery of what it is that they do.

I think it's, there's a few different levels to that. different levels to that there's uh having you have a double-edged sword with having mass because you're hitting the ground harder but you have more padding in a way um so there's that but uh strength like any other sport there's a base level you need and then i think every athlete has its own his or her own you you know, how leg, how strong, how much of a squat do you have to have to be a good sprinter? That will vary a lot, you know, and it's the same thing for the WIB. And they have a bit of an option on how they want to train. So some people really train for strength because that's what they like.

And some people train more for simply aesthetics because they like that better. So I'm, I'm open to listening to what they want. And then usually they're open to me telling them what I think they should do. And then we kind of blend our ideas together. When you started to work with wrestlers, did you look at, you like, you know, for example, football, a strength coach might say, oh, you know, average play lasts, I don't know, five seconds or whatever amount. And then there's the clock in between, and they got that X amount of time to get back to the line of scrimmage, and then the next play goes. And there's X amount of plays for the defensive players, X amount of plays for the offensive players and stuff. Did you ever break wrestling down into those finer points of like, Hey, it looks like, you know, when these guys do a six minute TV match, they fall down X amount of times.

Or this particular guy, you know, gets up this way or you ever like analyze it in some weird, crazy, broken down way. I did and found most of it. I wouldn't say useless, but not very useful. Um, I did that more for injuries. I started to try and look at trends and injuries, which, um, is kind of not possible because I was looking at ways to do my job better, but I would look at injury list and like, okay, his shoulders hurt. How did he do that?

Maybe I did something wrong. Maybe I could train him better. And it's like, okay, he fell off a ladder through a table. Well, yeah, that will hurt your shoulder. You know? So it was usually things like that where, you know, it's not, uh, it's the unpredictableness of like most sports are unpredictable that way, but wrestling is really like, you're just, you're doing a lot of stunts,

you know, and it's dangerous. Were you into wrestling as a kid? Mildly, like off and on. I was never. Like obsessed or anything. Yeah. And I missed a lot of the attitude era, which most guys our age were into, but I knew what was going on, you know, but I didn't feel like I was missing something if I missed a

week. Right. D-Generation X and all that. I got more into it when I learned the business side, which was more interesting to me. but I knew what was going on, you know, but I didn't feel like I was missing something if I missed a week. Right. D-generation X and all that. I got more into it when I learned the business side, which was more interesting to me. But, um, yeah, I did look at, um, the mat, but the matches vary so much. I mean, you could be not even in a match one week, you know? Yeah. one week you know yeah so besides things about like uh sometimes cardiovascularly when doing some cardio stuff is more interval based or i like strongman stuff a lot for wrestling because wrestling tends to be go go go and then sell sell sell go go go sell sell sell you know so it's

bursts of activity rather than wrestle all the time. Right. These guys need a tremendous amount of conditioning. That might be something that people don't really realize. Yeah. You know, but a lot of it comes from the ring itself. Like any, uh, as you probably know with aerobic activity, it's even more specific, I think, than strength. And, um, if you're very good at running, that doesn't mean you're going to swim that well. And people get confused, like, I don't get it.

I can run 15 miles, but I get in a pool, I can barely go, and I'm exhausted, you know? So I don't think, I think the best thing for conditioning is to play your sport or a version of your sport. And like I said, so we do, if someone's having trouble with their wind or something like that we do some conditioning stuff but i've actually tested uh vo2 max and two guys that thought their uh condition was the worst and they were really worried about it had the highest vo2

max of everyone and what it really was was they were just holding their breath in the ring or getting nervous or something, you know, they weren't, so they were making themselves tired. Yeah. That's a weird factor. The crowd. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, you're, you're training on a bike or whatever it is you're doing, or you're going for a run and now you're in front of, I don't know, 30,000 people.

That's what I'm saying. It's not the same, you know, so you can't really, uh, uh run running the ropes and stuff like that is better than anything else you can do but i do even like the prowler i think is really good just right for the uh i'm gonna push it really hard now i'm gonna rest and i'm gonna push it really hard now i'm gonna rest yeah seems to be more effective than just straight you know 40 minute low what what do you think like what have you seen uh lifting uh do for you let's kind of start with that like you know you got into lifting at a young age and kind of became obsessed with strength um and you have you have the physique of a power athlete i would say slash bodybuilder it looks like you're you're really lean looks like you're in shape and if you want

to do a bodybuilding show it looks like you do one, but we lifted with you this morning and your strength is your strength levels are, are, are good. Um, you know, what, what has lifting weights,

uh, done for you, uh, just as a person period. It's a very big question. Oh my God. Um, because it's my very big podcast.

I mean, it's helped my profession obviously, because it, you know, I learned things for myself that I could apply to other people. But besides that, um, I think it was, uh, the discipline and understanding that good things take a long time, especially when you start young, you're a long time. Like, what do you mean by long time? Like, uh, years and years, you know, it takes, it takes you mean by long time like uh years and years you know it

takes it takes uh years to uh reach your athletic or strength peak you know and to understand that and like okay well here's my bench workout and it doesn't really matter but in the scheme of things it all it's all going to add up and uh to have that you know i remember looking at powerlifting usa when i was younger and looking at like the meat results of like whatever weight i was like okay i bet i could do that in like four years you know like as a kid and um unfortunately i didn't have the math right because i was judging the rate of my development when I was young, you know? So I'm like, oh, so I'm definitely gonna be the strongest man in the world. I used to do that and map that out all the time.

I was like, man, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do this in six months and all that. And, um, it just, it taught me how, uh, you can constantly improve and you don't have to be stronger every week, but you can do something better. You could move the weight faster. You can move it with better form. And if strength isn't working out, try to look better. Like there's a lot of avenues to take. And just, you know, what it taught me about the human body and all that. Just it's, I guess, I the probably the most important thing would be the

discipline of it and just seeing that like it's not about tomorrow or next month it's about where you're going to be in five years how did how did this gym come to be i mean you mentioned about hard knock south being in massachusetts uh i guess let's back up let's back the whole story way up and let's start out with how did you meet John Cena? How did that start? We actually met in high school. We both went to a boarding school and there was a handful of people that were into lifting weights. And by a handful, I mean like five people that took it seriously.

Five losers. seriously five losers and um so you know we had a very small boarding school high school weight room you know and the school only had 400 students so you know you make do with what is and um you know just like any other kid you're trying to figure it all out and he had obviously immense uh talent or genetics you know he was i thought you're gonna say testicles i thought for sure that's where are you going possibly possibly that as well but i mean he clearly stood out and he stood out in um that he stood out in a weird charisma way even then you know and um so i would ask him what he did but he didn't really know what he was doing and uh i mean he as a 17 year old like it's crazy what he looked like i mean he looked very

similar to the way he looks now and um but that's the thing i mean that's the way some people are and that was my first encounter with like oh whoa there's a big genetic variation in the world you know was he that was he about that heavy i mean because i what is he nowadays like 235 245 somewhere in that range uh he usually sits like 250 and um you know can have some lighter days or heavier days but he was i don't know his exact weight much he was lighter for sure but same shape everything, like way too muscular for a kid that age. Yeah. Where people just like, what the hell, you know, like as that's high school.

So like people talk in high school, like people are like, what the fuck's going on with this guy? Yeah. And, um, but I think you're kind of, you know, boarding school was pretty, uh, even that I have a younger picture than that on the, maybe even on my phone, but, uh, as your screensaver. Yeah. And, um, but, uh, you know, you're, you're very, you're kind of isolated. So you don't think about too much, you know, it's weird, but you know, it wasn't really a thing then uh and we were good friends

we had similar sense of humor and all that stuff and then he goes to college i go to college i do my thing he does his long story short he ends up in uh in wrestling and i've been a strength coach and then so we kind of like and like hey i can help you working out we realized and he's like yeah that would help and there you go so um i started just teaching him some things he was missing like i'd see little things like i should do this just for injury prevention all this boring stuff you know and he had very much gone just into bodybuilding type training then he which he was listening but also yeah whatever and his strength was way down like he used to be stronger you know right and um so he hurt his pec he tore his pec and the doctors pretty much repeated everything i had said so then he was like okay i'm in whatever you say

right and that's when we really got serious about it. And then at that point it was, uh, we started looking for a place to have a gym, you know? Right. And, um, like I said, I found a warehouse space and then we put it together slowly. This was, uh, about 10 years ago in 07. And then before the 08 Olympics, some athletes I had came to train and, um, he started seeing like, oh, I see what this is going to be like, this is, you know, and then just kind of kept going from there.

Was there, was there a period of time where you were kind of thinking about it, where you're like, oh man, maybe this ain't going to work? No, because that was never the, you know, it doesn't, the gym doesn't really, people don't pay to go to the gym. They pay me to train them. Right. So it was, the gym was just like a really cool place to have. And then with, and just realizing that over time we could build it up.

So you weren't really nervous about any of that because you had knowledge. Yeah. And you could take the knowledge to any, you could apply it to any. I had been working in the industry for years at that point. You can apply it to any building that has weights. Right, right. Basically, right? Yeah.

When you were in those early days with Sina, did you guys, you guys worked out a lot together, you mentioned. with, uh, with Sina, did you guys, did you guys, you guys worked out a lot together? You mentioned, um, and were you, were you guys in school together in the beginning or did he transfer into your school? You're transferring his. I transferred in. He was there for a year. He's a year ahead of me. So I transferred in when he was already there.

I'm trying just to imagine like, you know, cause when I, when I met him him i got the same sense you know right off the bat that it was like just something different about the guy and so i'm trying to imagine like did other people talk about him a lot or was it just like a or he's just like a normal kid i've told this story before but i think it's a great example um my first it might have even been my first day like real day at that school they had an orientation and uh so you have this big assembly place you know and he was one of the presenters uh because he had been there for like an extra week ahead of time or something right and um he came out on the stage and like i remember very vividly like i could feel the whole place like lean forward and then someone say like, there he is.

What do you think he's going to say? I'm like, well, who's this kid? You know, why is he so interesting? You know, and that was, you know, thinking back, like it makes sense, but he, there are people like that, that have this magnetism that just makes people interested for some reason, you know? magnetism that just makes people interested for some reason right you know and uh so you know as we've talked about before i mean even going forward i always felt he had this certain the way he could act he was over animated and stuff like there's something there's a performer

there you know and when you're around a lot of normal people, it stands out, you know, and you might not recognize it, but hindsight being 2020, like, oh yeah, that was always there. You know, what did he talk about with that? I don't even know. Uh, I don't even remember. Yeah. It's, uh, like, like I, I've, I've told people before, you know, he's, he's somebody that's just, when you meet him, it leaves a scratch on your head. But it's also, I find this to be really interesting because there's times in life where you look at somebody and you can't help but be jealous sometimes. But John, in my opinion, or at least my experience with him, I never felt that way. Because I always knew that he was just on another

level. It'd be like, it'd be like being jealous of Jeff Bezos and you're trying to like, you're trying to battle against him, uh, in terms of, uh, the way that, the way that you do business. Yeah. I think, I think people see like he has a number of gifts for sure, but he's, he works his ass off. And when you see that it takes away like the, like, well, that guy didn't even have to try. Right. Like he, he tried incredibly hard and he's gifted. So when you put the effort in, I think it takes away any kind of jealousy. Yeah.

A lot of people are like, oh, I wouldn't work that hard. You know. I was telling you yesterday around the time I met him, like I met him through mass movement, you know, they were moving fitness equipment back in the day, uh, together, uh, with my two brothers. And, uh, when he came, when he came to Los Angeles and started working at mass movement, he mentioned he wanted to do a bodybuilding show. And I was like, well, what are you doing for this bodybuilding show?

And he was like, oh, it's, you know, six weeks out or however many weeks it was. Um, but for like six weeks, he really just ate this tiny, tiny amount of food. I think he had like a chicken breast once a day. He had protein, he had like two or three protein shakes a day. And, uh, like, like a scoop of peanut butter. And I just remember that. And I remember him saying that that's what he was going to do. And I remember he was saying, he's going to do the bodybuilding butter. And I just remember that. And I remember him saying that that's what he was going to do. And I remember he was saying he's going to do the bodybuilding show. And I remember him saying he was going to like win the bodybuilding show and he was going to do all these different things.

And as it started getting closer and closer, you just started getting more and more shredded. He was like following through with what he said. And, uh, Los Angeles, uh, talk is very cheap.

You know, you hear people say stuff all the time when you're there. But he said, you know, he said what he was going to do and he went out there and he did it. And I think actually in the bodybuilding show, if I remember, I think he placed second and he was, he was like, he was pissed because he had so much muscle on him that it's like, it just didn't make any sense to get. But sometimes that happens. on him that it's like, it just didn't make any sense to get, but sometimes that happens. But I just remember thinking like, if he can apply himself in a diet that way, which is a 24 seven, uh, fixated control over yourself, then he can probably apply that to anything. Yeah.

It's the, uh, he has a great ability for, uh, just very methodical, you know, step by step, no matter how long something's going to take. for just very methodical, you know, step-by-step, no matter how long something's going to take. And I think that's one of his great strengths is being able to see the long-term instead of just like, why isn't this working this week? You know, like, oh, it's going to work in five years? Okay, here we go, day one. Like, I mean, he literally thinks like that,

and that's how he acts whether it's like wrestling stuff or learning chinese and playing the piano like it's all like i'm gonna learn how to play the piano and i'm gonna really suck really bad for two years but i'm gonna do it every day and then he does it that's crazy yeah yeah there's some shots of him we're looking at some shots of him bodybuilding back in the day and later on becoming the prototype and getting more and more involved in pro wrestling. What was it like when you got a phone call from him and he said he's out in LA and he was going to do professional wrestling? Been out there a few times and I'd actually mentioned something to him about he should try acting because he had something, you know, but he didn't want to do that. Everyone's out there trying to be an actor, which is understandable. And it's kind of frustrating because I felt like there was something special about him, but he was just kind of being like everyone else. And then when he said he had started wrestling school, that was just like, oh my God, that's perfect.

That's exactly what you should do because that's crazy and different and would utilize all your talents. And I had no idea it would utilize them to that level, but it turns out it was the perfect thing for him. What's it like training all these athletes? utilize them to that level, you know, but, uh, turns out it was the perfect thing for him. Yeah. What's it like training all these athletes? I mean, um, you know, training the, uh, training high level athletes. So he's like different, you know, these are different types of people. And, uh, you've worked with, uh, you know, world-class shot putters and discus throwers and hammer throwers and all kinds of different people, what's it what like specifically working with the wwe um all kinds of different people is a good um a good example like

there is uh some sports you kind of have an idea of like the type of person that plays that sport if you're that's a very good point you know the wwe. The difference between a linebacker and a running back, not a huge difference. The difference between a defensive lineman and an offensive lineman, not a huge difference. But a baseball player, just their personalities, or a football player. Anyone in a university can be like, ah, baseball player. The WWE, though, is such a melting pot of personalities and types that it was difficult, difficult for me to kind of like, I was used to actual professional athletes,

you know, not that we aren't in some way, but they didn't have that background. They were, they were growing into being professional athletes as you, like you and I think John, I think are huge parts of it, to be honest with you. Yeah, and it was, but you didn't have the background of things I took for granted, like you see an athletic

trainer all the time, and you know how to do mobility drills automatically, like, because you've been doing them since you were 12, because you're special and you're an Olympian, you know? And, um, they didn't know any of that. And so I didn't like, it was an adjustment for me to figure out like, what level is this because some of these guys are super strong, some aren't. And, um, so everyone's,

everyone's very unique and everyone's very, like more so than a lot of other sports because it's all different goals and different body types coming from different places with different talents. And so every workout I write, they're like, there isn't a wrestling workout. They're all very different. And for that person, you know, what do you think it's done for some of these guys to get them to do? Um, when I, when I was in pro wrestling, a lot of the guys were still kind of stuck on just doing bodybuilding movements. Not that there's nothing wrong with bodybuilding movements, but they weren't utilizing, uh, any real power lifts. Uh, I definitely didn't see any strong man stuff. Hmm. There might've been a couple of guys benching and maybe squatting a little bit here and

there, but there was no cleans, no snatches. And there really wasn't a whole lot of power lifting implemented, but, but you ended up bringing a lot of that to the table. And what has it done for these guys and girls? Well, I think again you know there are some people that i train like when i think about the workouts we're body part bodybuilding type stuff right um and then there are some people that i kind of have a more of a power lifting base in mind um and i think that an important thing for me with, I mean, this could be general

population is to find something that you enjoy in terms of working out. So if it's the pursuit of strength, great. And if it's just the way you look great, or if it's just, I want to be tired when I leave my workout, all of that's valid. So teaching people that there's more than one way to work out, you know, because typically people have learned bodybuilding. Do you believe there's more than one way to skin a cat? There is. And there's a number of techniques, but that's for a different show.

I've been told that several times. Yeah. So, um, you know, for the women, uh, a lot of times is realizing what a 200 pound squat means, you know, because they have no reference to numbers. Um, and, uh, for guys it's, you know, maybe same thing. Like, well, I would never squat four or five. Like, no, you can, you can do it in like three or four months. And then when they do that, like, oh, what's my potential? You you know just to be able to seek that stuff out hey look at that it's got to be hard for these uh men and women to you know to listen to you saying hey yeah you can squat 200 225 and 400 and so on because a lot of them got to be i would imagine be in pain because they

travel so much and they're well that's something you work around a lot you know and you try to uh you know if whatever their issues are you know knees or knees and backs are a constant thing in wrestling so uh you have to find a way to train around those things you know so some people might be able to some people don't have that many knee issues. Some have a lot of knee issues and, um, you know, with knee stuff, you can deadlift quite a bit, you know, and, uh, maybe you can't do squats all the way down, but you can do box squats or something like that. But we do a lot of like, I attack things like you know flexibility and all that

anything that i can do on my end to alleviate you know knee problems and that kind of thing but it's mostly learning that like you are a professional athlete and you have to treat yourself that way so when you're home that doesn't mean you're off that means you have to get a massage or you have to you know do whatever else it takes to keep your body working and uh a lot of times the younger wrestlers maybe younger athletes even don't realize that because you can get away with a lot with your when you're 25 or something but most guys when they're you know getting into their 30s start to get more serious about like yeah i gotta stop drinking and start getting they're you know getting into their 30s start to get more serious about like yeah i gotta stop drinking and start getting massages you know things like that is there any uh background like athletic background that transfer over it's a little bit better into

wrestling that you've noticed like say like a gymnast like okay yeah they're probably going to make it once i get them a little bit stronger anything like that for every um every way i could confirm that and think of a gymnast they're like yeah that worked out there's a lot that don't you know because there's so much more yeah to it i will say that coming from a sports background really helps with the discipline and the training and uh not coming from that it's more difficult unless they've like always been to bodybuilding or something for them to accept that like this is something i can't stop doing you know and um because i have people that have a lazier personality but if they came from a sport they'll always show up you know just because like oh it's not

an option not to is what i've always done yeah so i think that's more of the uh the benefit rather than you know if you come from actual wrestling you know there's a few moves here and there and stuff like that that for sure. And you might not need as much training to make, for like a better term, make things look real. But, uh, I mean, just look at the roster, like it's a huge variety. Did you guys go over holds and moves in the gym? No. There's, uh, there's not.

You're like, you have like, I could just picture you got someone doing a wall sit as very sports specific. They do a wall sit because they get somebody in the camel clutch or the Boston crab. It's like, dude, you're going to need this. Trust me. This is going to win WrestleMania for you. Well, you know, that would be, uh, being too sports specific. I think, you know, um, there's not that much wrestling talk. There's some like broader concepts that the guys and girls might talk about, you know, or laugh about something happening in a match.

But there's really not that, I mean, it's like anything else. Do you believe in, do you believe in some sports specific stuff or do you think like, you know for example a baseball player like uh does it make sense for them to be in the gym doing a swinging motion with weights or does it make sense for them really just to just exercise lift well i think that have them be separate things or what's some what's some of your philosophy? My general philosophy with everyone is to. You think I'm full of shit? No, no. I think you're.

Why were you thinking that? I could tell. I think you're a very intelligent and accomplished man. That's hurtful to me. Spray. Take it, take it out. That is your real name. Um, I believe in developing an athlete first and then aiming them at the sport.

Even if they just want to, they want to be a power lifter. If you start just power lifting early on, I think you miss a lot of just general body development, you know? And, um, so you get to a certain level and then, you know, you get more sport specific so then it becomes very individualized you know where running with a parachute might help one sprinter but it might slow down another because his movement pattern is so essential and the parachute changes his movement pattern you know so it throws his timing um and i think there's sports specific is an overused term because when you train your sport that is your sport specific thing you know it's like you don't kick a weighted soccer ball you know or something like that right but but even the act of lifting would be sports specific in some way because you're just lifting to try to get better at the sport.

Right. So you would look like you would do exercise exercises that like, you know, if you are a football player in a you might do some more explosive stuff rather than someone who's just trying to be in shape for baseball or something, unless you're a home run hitter and you use that mass a lot. It gets down to that, to the individual, his or herself, and how they perform their sport. How much strength do you need to throw a baseball or to throw a shot putt or something? There's some like baseline numbers,

even for a baseball that you have to have to get to a certain velocity, but then it varies a lot between people on how strong they are, you know? And so you, I think getting too sports specific, you kind of will screw up a higher level athlete. specific, you kind of will screw up a higher level athlete. Has the WWE ever tried to run or overly participate in your gym? No. Well, I worked for WWE for about four years or so in the early stages of their... So you worked directly for them. Right.

In their developmental program. Then they opened a training center in orlando and they've done a lot out there to make it very uh it's awesome you know the um is and it's constantly improving like nxt has come a long way from where it started and um but for me like everyone in the wwe is an independent contractor you know so they can do whatever they want when they're home and uh vince mcmahon's 1099 1099 and all those folks huh yeah so um no one uh talks me from the wwe unless it's something like maybe they're looking for someone and they think they might be in the gym or they want to do some story and maybe I have footage or something like that.

But no, no one interferes with what I do because I'm just, I don't work with them. Yeah. Right. When you did work for him, was it hard? Um,

it was, it was busy. Uh, it wasn't hard. It was enjoyable. Cause it was like figuring out a new realm of how to do stuff um towards the end it was never a point where they're like hey where the fuck's that why are we paying you know i just imagine like a company like that's gonna be concerned about what they're paying and making sure they're

getting their money's worth and no it was very uh um i mean they could have had meetings or something but i i i got a lot of uh compliments like i'd like to when i was getting it from camera guys that's when i was like okay i'm on the right path because they would say things like man whatever you're doing like we see these guys every you know six weeks or something and we can tell the difference i'm like oh those are the guys i should be listening to because you know that's a kind of outside eyes. The camera guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Good job. So, um, no, it was, uh, it was the more they started to send more and more people to me, it was honestly more than I could handle by myself. And that was frustrating trying to do my job the best I could, but having so many people at the same time. But besides little things like that, it was, you know, were, were you there when, uh, you know, were you, have you been around? I don't remember when this happened. Uh, when did the Chris Benoit thing happen where he, you know, just for people that are uninformed, Chris Benoit, um, I guess basically went crazy and he killed his family and killed himself right yeah

that's the short of it in his own home i believe um and i think that he was on prescription medications and uh probably suffered from depression and now we know things you know later that um people's brains are getting destroyed a lot worse than we originally anticipated and thought. And, uh, so the WWE had to, uh, there was a, there's been a lot of deaths, uh, from people that have been professional wrestlers. And a lot of it has to do with, uh, not necessarily the WWE. A lot of it has to do with the rock star lifestyle that a lot of guys thought that they had to live. They thought that that was the way that this is the way we do it. Like I'm going to go and I'm going to wrestle in front of a few thousand people.

And then at night I'm going to rage and we're going to do A, B and C and I'll be gone, you know, 300 days out of the year or whatever. And that's, that's the way the guys thought things were, were, were just the way they were. Um, were you around, you know, when, when the Chris Benoit thing hit or is that after? I was, I wasn't working for the WWE. Um, but I remember talking to some guys about it around that time when they started drug testing is when people started to contact me. when they started drug testing is when people started to contact me and you know that that the the classes change kind of you know just like a sports team or something like that so it's a different type of person now than it was in the 80s or something like that. And there's still that, you know, rock star element,

but they do carry themselves much more professional. And the world's different, social media and all that stuff. You can't go crazy and stuff. And to survive in this business, you have to take care of your body. And it's just a different level. There's a lot more people interested in health and stuff. And some of the old guys I've heard them complain about like, Oh,

all they do is go to their hotel rooms and play video games instead of going to the bar. But part of you is like, good, like good, you know, whatever keeps them sedated, you know,

because they can't get in trouble. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's just a different and a different way of thinking. And I think also realizing that your body is just one element and you don't have to look like the ultimate warrior to be successful.

Um, but you do well successful in certain realms. You want to be awesome. You need to, yeah. Yeah. That, that must've been a hard thing for the WWE to go through. Um, since, uh, Vince, you know, has been so attached to that. It's been so attached to the look, you know,

you remember those, uh, old clips of, you know, Ivan Putzky coming to the ring or the ultimate warrior and Vince would be like, oh yes, he's really put together. You know, he'd lose his mind and go crazy about how jacked and how, how good the guy looked. And then Vince himself, Vince himself is jacked and tan.

Well, I think there's always going to be body guys, you know, you'll always have that. And there's sometimes more than others at different time periods, you know? So if people is whatever people like, if they're paying to see a guy who never touched a weight, then I mean mean that's

something vince is very good at is what sells you know and um and it's good to have a variety too because that's kind of more interesting there there is a point and anyone into like muscle stuff would like it but there was a point in the wv where like everyone wwf at the time everyone was jacked and it was just like another jack guy versus another jack guy his head's purple that can't be healthy you know yeah so i think there is something to be said for like a 6-4 jacked guy versus a 5-10 guy who looks like he hasn't worked out how is he going to beat him oh he's going to outskill him like that you know like but this You know, like, but this, you know, this is, uh, this is entertainment, you know, and, and, um, you know, uh, Brad Pitt, you know, is not getting drug tested for doing a film

like Troy, you know, where he gets all jacked or a Hugh Jackman. Right. Um, why, why did the WWE take the stance? Is it, would they thought that thought that the uh drugs were ruining the guys uh well i think situations like chris benoit benoit was a big thing um baseball at the time was getting hit really hard you know and the government's kind of known there is an element of like uh remember too that the wwe didn't have the kind of sponsorships and stuff it does now in terms of like the individual wrestlers yeah and uh cena went through a lot of that is, you know, trying to open the door of, you know, getting legit, you know, whoever Nike to pay you decent money and stuff.

Right. But when you look at the history of like, ah, these guys, they look like they're on drugs and they tend to die. So, yeah, I don't think so. Because like, don't forget, like drugs are illegal and, you know, it's hard to put your money behind. like drugs are illegal and you know it's hard to put your money behind like this guy's probably doing something illegal and they tend to get caught and have health problems and all that and so the wwe implementing things like that and really paying attention to the health of wrestlers like i think it's been a great thing because this really helped keep people alive yeah Yeah. No, I, I mean, I, I'm in full agreement when I've been backstage before and, um, seen the, uh, uh, even just the food they have available. You know, they have, they got cake and stuff like that too, but they have, they have enough healthy food where it's very easy to make a healthy choice.

Um, I think even that plays into it, especially, uh, the exhaustion of all the travel and just their bodies are, are, uh, are really taking a beating. But the WWE, they really actually test for steroids? Yes. It's real independent. So it's not done by Vince and Stephanie McMahon. No, that would triple H like, oh yeah, it looks

pretty good. No, they, uh. Get out there and go kill somebody. They show up and, you know, the urine, like a normal, you know, it looks pretty good. No, they, uh. Get out there and go kill somebody. They show up and, you know, collect the urine, like a normal, you know, drug test. Right. And anything like that. And, uh. When, uh, you were working for them, did they test you?

They did not. So I could be on. They test all kinds of people, right? They could be on, uh, I could be on anything. Oh my God. Well, that explains it. Yeah. Fucking cheater.

What about, uh, concussion protocols or anything like that? They have that. They have, you know, testing for concussions and stuff, you know, to what level. I'm not that familiar with what the medical is doing now, but when they're suspicious of stuff, they'll, you know, they'll take people off the road for a little while if there's an issue and stuff. Wow. When you worked for them, did they want you part of their, um, or I don't even know if the wellness program was part of, was it part of it while you were working for them?

Yeah. And, um, you know, I, I communicated with the medical and stuff like that. That's like I was saying, I would ask to see injury reports so I can try to figure something out.

I can't figure out anything, but, um, uh, you know, I was involved in that stuff and, you know, we talk about talent and potential and all that kind of thing. Some of the guys or girls come to you and talk about, I know that your gym, you know, is kind of a, a spot for them to come and, and, uh, not talk about work. They sometimes, you you know just frustrated they

sometimes like man what do i got to do do i you know need a better body or do i need to do this or that how do i how do i make more money like what do i got to change my gimmick or well i'm not a wrestler and i don't claim to be you know and i can't tell them what their problem is but usually they're their own problem you know i'll listen but uh in the end it's it's usually uh you know just normal outsider advice you know because like in any other industry like you could be complaining about um why you haven't gotten a raise at work or why you've been promoted and then just simply from the outside looking in, like, well, didn't you say you show up late, like half the time a week, you know,

of the week? Yeah, but they don't care. Well, that's probably one of the reasons. Because I wouldn't promote you either. Why? Well, they don't care. But, you know, like that kind of thing. Right.

Sometimes when you're in it, you can't see the obvious. I think it's kind of obvious. But it's, you know, I'll mention things to people like, you know, like for lack of a better term, I'll say like, you've gained a lot of weight in a bad way lately and they're okay with it or they're not, you know. Or I'm like, whoops. Or they'll ask, should I get bigger or leaner?

My answer is almost always leaner. That's a good place to start, you know, but. Do other wrestlers from other organizations like like a local one like in la is like pwg like do you get wrestlers from other organizations coming to you guys and being like hey can you hook me up with someone's phone number or something like that or can i come train here can you give me some pointers that sort of thing i get people asking about training sometimes but i literally literally, I'm very busy and I don't really have that much time for extra people.

And I, um, I'm kind of, I'm not impossible to, but I'm hard to get ahold of just because I, you know, the gym has a social media presence, which is me, but I don't check it that much. The gym's also like unmarked. It's hard, hard to figure out where it is. It's kind of scary. Our Uber driver's like, what is this place? Because I've dropped a lot of people off before. We have to go back to the Uber driver.

The whole experience of going from the hotel to coming to a stop sign, seeing a fluorescent neon light that said the Todd. Oh, yeah. Yeah. neon light that said the Todd. Oh yeah. Yeah. Our,

our, uh, Uber driver was this, uh, woman who was probably, I don't know, 55, 60 years old. She obviously had kids.

And, uh, so she's heard it all, you know? So we, you know, we were saying weird shit cause we were seeing like weird looking suspicious buildings,

you know? And then we saw the Todd, but the Todd really stood out because it had like a cart had like cartoon characters outside of it, but it looked like nothing for children in there. Just to be clear. No, I know. It looked like Mickey and Minnie mouse holding hands, just super happy.

And these, these pink neon lights everywhere, but like, that's it. It didn't say what, what it was. It basically, it basically looked like a house, uh, for pedophiles. Yeah. Draw the kids, draw the kids, draw the kids in, you know. Yes. It's a toy store for, for adults. Yeah.

Is what that is. Our Uber driver was like too shy to like explain what it was. She's like, that's not a, you know, don't go in there. That's not a nice place. You know, she was. But then it was so funny. Cause we're like, well, what is it? Like, what the hell?

Like, do you draw kids in here? And she's like, oh, that, that's a, that's a bad place. Like, well, like, what is it? It's for couples. And we're like, oh, like swingers? And she's like, no, it's, it's, it's, uh, um, and then I think someone was like, like a sex shop. She's like, yep, that's what it is.

Okay. There you go. Yeah. And then I think someone was like, like a sex drop. She's like, yep, that's what it is. Okay, there you go. Yeah, well, I think that's a, it's a bad place depending on your perspective, you know. Unless of course you need maybe a leather mask. Yes. Oh, that's where we're going with this. Yeah. I did from the Todd get a Gimp mask at one time, which was a, uh, um, a disguise I used a long time.

It wasn't leather cause I couldn't afford that at the time. The leather ones are very nice, but, um, uh, until it melted in my closet one day. Wow. Possibly overuse. Who knows? Spontaneous combustion. Yeah. Hey man, you do what you gotta do.

Everybody needs their own gimmick. That was yours for a while, I guess. Yeah. It came in useful a few times. Um, I've heard you talk a lot of, in the past about Olympic lifts. And I know that you mentioned like, uh, kind of sounds like you're of the mindset of, uh, you, you want to, you want to find out what's intriguing and motivational to people. Uh, just so they're just so a lot of the athletes and clients you're working with, just so they're, they're going right.

And, uh, you don't want to slow them down with too much BS, but, uh, if you can catch them with, uh, you know, to talk them into a clean or snatch, uh, you probably will. But, um, what have you seen minus, uh, even just the pro wrestlers aside, I guess for a second, there's a lot of debate on how to train an athlete. And you always hear like high school football. They're always like, we need cleans. We need to be explosive, uh, volleyball coaches and things like that. They'll say we need plyos and we, you know, what do you, what do you kind of make of all

this? And what have you seen, uh, or where have you seen in, uh, Olympic lifting being effective for sports? Um, that's, uh, that's also a big question. Um, the Olympic, it always depends, right? Like I, I'm trying to, you know, answers clearly as I can. Olympic lifting is, uh, something that I don't think there's any exercise that's essential. Even the great squat itself. That's a great statement.

Write that down. Written. If you have one coach and a bunch of high school kids and you can't teach a clean effectively, it's not going to be an effective exercise. Because moving a weight from the ground to their shoulders, if you do that without any kind of hip extension, what are you training? Like the point of the Olympic lift is to train that for football.

So that's kind of not very useful, you know? I also don't think the Olympic lifts are good for, are the best choice for physiques, you know, and that's a lot of people associate that with CrossFit physiques now, but, um, there's more effective exercises to use just to make yourself look a certain way. Why do you think they're not great for physique? Um, because they lack, uh, the majority of the lift lacks an eccentric component, which is where you do a lot of the little microfiber damage to repair.

Um, so it's all, I don't know what your demo is for this, but it's all lifting up on something and not really putting something down. And, uh, of course, like any kind of lifting is going to get you some size, and you could say, like, oh, your shoulders will benefit or the legs from the squatting, and if you look at the best of the best, of course, like, they look like they have some decent physiques on them, but I'm just talking about efficiency. If you want to look good, there's more efficient ways to train a muscle directly. The great thing about the Olympic lifts and the difficult thing is they train differently than any other exercise at the gym is they coordinate all your muscles together.

And that's what makes them so difficult is you're trying to use everything that you have all at once. And that's a concept for people experienced with lifting that doesn't make sense because you deadlift or you bench and those are the biggest exercises you do but you're kind of deadlifting more upright into a jump into a front squat you know like it's it's a lot to learn and um there's also the uh flexibility component of if you're not flexible in the right way like it can be dangerous. All that being said, I think they're awesome and efficient, and I love efficiency. I think done properly, they do train hip extension and explosiveness.

You could say they even teach some absorption of eccentric force when you're catching a clean and stuff like that from a sports perspective. For what I do, if someone wants to learn the Olympic lifts, I teach them. If they don't, it's not something I force and I don't think is essential for wrestlers. It's essential for other sports, you know?

Not essential, but more of the base of their training. Right. And because if you're a shopper, for example, like that's, your event is a coordination of all your muscles together in one explosive movement. I guess there's also, you know, the thing to think about here is that there's thousands of variations of olympic lifts and there's things i use like i take things from the olympic lifts i use a a uh you know a clean deadlift just to the

knee just as a hamstring and glute exercise i use uhbell complexes, high poles and stuff like that as a shoulder exercise. But, um, to learn to snatch properly is a very difficult thing for a lot of people, especially if you're already established as someone who lifts weights, you know, women do better with it than men do. Um, when it comes to a movement like the snatch, like, I mean, it's extremely difficult. You're going down to a full squat position. Uh, you got the weight over your head. Um,

have you noticed that, uh, maybe most people that can perform snatch, even without a lot of knowledge and even without being able to knock it out with perfect form. Have you noticed in your history of working with people for over 20 years, have you noticed sometimes that those people are the best athletes in the room and want to kind of perform some of these movements, even though it might not be critical or crucial or it might not be the most important thing, but does it show some signs of... Hang power snatch.

snatch. I have seen personally a direct correlation between performance on that exercise and performance in their event, as long as it's a kind of power-based thing. Because a lot of times the best athletes aren't the best in the weight room, but you would take, I mean, I remember making lists of this and seeing the lines of the, you know, top athletes in an event and their lifting performance may be in the middle, but their hang snatch would be towards the top. And that happened over and over. And I think that's because of the coordination and a lot of sport is being able to turn muscles on and off very quickly. So an Olympic lift, you're pulling up on the bar

and then instantly have to change direction. So you have to go up and then turn off, drop down and turn back on, you know. And the speed at which you can do that is, you know, it comes down to milliseconds of you make the lift or you don't. And that's also you make it over the high jump bar or you don't.

You know, that's the, that kind of reaction time. And I can see that in people. I have some people that are not gifted in terms of speed that have great form, but it really holds you back in that lift. If you just can't, you know, turn that on. How were you able to get John Cena to be able to do Olympic lifts, you know, into his, you know, starting into his late 30s and now being like 41 or so? That is a result of his determination and stubbornness. That was him witnessing some Olympic athletes doing the Olympic lifts in their training, him trying it and being terrible at it and then deciding, no, I need i need to learn this and once he realized he likes to use the analogy of a golf swing that's what it is it's like you're always trying to perfect this thing that you'll never

get perfect and it just became a new challenge and seeing the methodical nature and he had uh he's blessed with so so there he goes. Um, he has a great snatch face. One of the best in the biz. Yep. Um, he has really good, uh, hip flexibility and, uh, that helps him be able to drop under the weight, uh, more effectively than most people. And he's,

he represents one of the best all around athletes I've trained. He's not, uh, I mean, he's very strong, but he's not great at any one thing, but he's kind of good all around. Like he can,

he can run, he can jump, he can do the Olympic lifts, he can do the power lifts. Yeah. If he said, we're run, he can jump, he can do the Olympic lifts, he can do the power lifts. Yeah. If he said, we're going to do a curl and an overhead press and a, and a deadlift, like he'd probably kick most people's ass.

And I think that's, you know, so I didn't have to encourage him too much because he took to it because that's the kind of challenge that he likes is a very long-term. I can, you can see your progress your progress you know and it's been difficult for him because with his schedule you can't train them as often you know and that's a very much the more complicated the physical task the more you have to practice the motion you know a squat is less complicated than a snatch obviously. And so it's like trying to work Olympic lifting training into his normal life, which is kind of difficult. And there's some squatting life right there. 485?

Well, according to the post. off a little bit just because the pound to kilo bar or whatever yeah yeah it's amazing to be able to lift these kind of weights uh while traveling as much as these guys do that's always the most the most fascinating thing and then john has had a uh he he's he's had some really serious surgeries. He's got some pec tears and stuff. I mean, how do you, how are you working around these guys schedule when it comes to that kind of stuff? Well, you know, we talked about this the other day. I tell people that, uh, discipline for a professional athlete isn't, um, showing up to the gym because you should be doing as normal.

You know, it's like getting a pat on the back for brushing your teeth. showing up to the gym because you should be doing it as normal. It's like getting a pat on the back for brushing your teeth. I could really use that. I'm at once a week right now. The discipline is doing the stuff that sucks. And it might be taking time off or going to rehab for an injury twice a day for weeks in the most boring, repetitive motions. And he's really good at like remembering I'm paid to do this. So I'm going to rehab twice a day and I'm going to give it everything, even if it's like, okay, eight, nine, like no matter how boring.

And, you know, people have said he's a fast healer which he is but they also don't realize he's a great rehabber like he does that stuff and i can tell you like no matter how boring rehab is like the people who put that work in come back faster big surprise and uh i tell everyone even if you think sucks, even if you think it doesn't help, do it. So when something goes wrong, you can say, I did everything in my power and something went wrong, so it's not my fault. If you don't do that, then it's your fault. Like you only showed up to have your rehab sessions. Why do you think you're healing slower?

So he's very methodical that way, and I have a good idea of what he's, uh, he's very methodical that way. And I have a good idea of what he's capable of. So I can get them back into working out, I think faster than a normal person, because I can observe everything. And I've seen enough to know that like, ah, that range of motion is good. We're going to stop it there. And, you know, just do everything we can. good we're going to stop it there and you know just do everything we can um when it when it comes to you know training these guys uh and girls um you know what are you doing are you doing anything

specific with their diet um because of the travels so crazy i mean uh they don't it's got to be hard for them to have time you know meal prep's got to be not impossible but i'd imagine it'd be difficult got to be hard for them to have time you know meal prep's got to be not impossible but i'd imagine it'd be difficult i used to do diets but i stopped doing it because i hate it and um specific diets are really difficult you're just always going to be fat well it's people don't stick to it and honestly it's almost impossible when you travel so much to do something ultra specific, you know? And, um, so what I do is just, I'll, I'll give, you know, some kind of general advice if they want to throw ideas off me, you know, that's fine. But I think meal prep services have been one of the coolest things in the last 10 years because that makes it so easy. And a lot of the guys, you can even tell some of these companies, Hey, I'm going to

be here to ship it there. Right. Um, that's like one of the best things ever yeah and um that kind of thing and they do a good enough job on their own a few of them have diets from people or they'll use them for a while to get in a certain shape or something but i root with, I encourage people to really know themselves. And most of the time, if you cut out the bullshit, you're fine. You know, for general purposes. They're active enough. Yeah. I mean, even beyond that, even normal people, if you're drinking a bunch of soft drinks and stuff like, you know what you're doing. If you're eating donuts for breakfast and drinking Mountain Dews all the day, like, you know.

Donuts. You're probably happy. Yeah. But I mean, that's, that all the day. Like, you know. Donuts. You're probably happy. Yeah. But I mean, that's, that's the thing. It's when people ask me for diet advice, I, I tell them like, you probably know, what do you, what do you do wrong? Well, I do this.

My breakfast is a Stairmaster. Yeah. Well, we're not talking about you. We're talking about civilians. How about supplements? Same thing. I, uh, I help, I, I do put supplements together for some people that want it just so they can travel with like little pill packs and they don't have to think about it

but um i'm a conditionally specific supplement person i think most of them are a waste of money but in the condition that you're a wrestler and you don't sleep that much and you have a certain schedule and, you know, certain needs, then they can be very useful. And same thing with everyone else. You know, like if you're, if you eat pretty healthy, you exercise regularly and you get your sleep, you probably don't need supplements really. But if you have a night shift sometimes and you work out like a maniac because you're a power lifter, then you might need to supplement your diet with extra nutrients or something. And again, that's kind of individual with what someone needs or blood test results and stuff like that. We were talking earlier about the supplements that actually work.

Can you talk a little bit about creatine? Sure. Because we were joking like, oh, it just adds water to your muscles, bro. But what are your... Talk about creatine in quotes or creatine? Like creatine or... Yeah, creatine. Yeah, creatine. Well, there's only two supplements that have like overwhelming scientific evidence behind them. And that's caffeine and creatine.

And creatine is so boring and cheap that a lot of people ignore it, but I still think it's. Boring and cheap. Yeah. I love that. And, uh, but it, it, it works. You know what, you're boring and cheap, Andy. Damn it. You can only package it so many ways, you know?

And if you just get good, plain creatine monohydrate um it's kind of a boring supplement but it if you look at the science it clearly does something and um even cognitively in some studies so um as i was telling you i i talked to a a guy who pretty much discovered it or started experimenting with it and beta alanine and he had a really good point is that we don't consume as much creatine even in steak which comes from a cow and stuff like that unless you eat a lot of steak um we don't have that much like eat meats that have higher creatine content because we're not hunting antelopes anymore or anything like that so we have less creatine in our body and the reason it seems to work really well in a lot of people is that you're in a way you're making up for deficiency

which is the same as any supplement you know right my example is if you have scurvy then vitamin c is a miracle cure for you but a normal person person, you might have enough vitamin C. Well, that's why a lot of bodybuilders take supplements too and vitamins and minerals because they, you know, especially like when somebody diets for a show, they're not eating nutrient dense foods. That's an important time for supplements. When you're dieting, you're not getting that many nutrient-dense foods. Right.

So I think that's an important part to think about, like at least a multivitamin or something, just to make sure you're, as an insurance policy, if nothing else. But, you know, there's nothing out there. Fish oil's not going to give you a 500-pound bench anytime soon. Fish oil's great, but, um, you know. What? Poor Smokey.

It's not? No, sorry. How do we get 500 pound benches? Just more trend? That might do it depending on the person, actually. I'm down to test it out. I think, you know, what I'm gathering here and just what I've seen and,

you know, being in professional wrestling for a while, I think that you've had a great influence on the way that the athletes are treating themselves nowadays. And I think that's amazing. Obviously, John Cena is definitely a huge part of that too. What have you seen over the years? I mean, these guys and girls, you know, were not treating themselves great. They weren't eating properly. Now you're probably seeing them walking around with their food prep meals, and you're probably seeing them talking about sleeping more and training more. I think this is kind of like a thing that people would not really understand, but I mean, I could just be, uh, blinded because I'm madly in love with John Cena, but I, I think

he has influenced that locker room. I think he's had a greater impact in that locker room than any other wrestler in the history of wrestling. I think, uh, when you've been on top, as long as he has, you can't help, but be an influence, you know, because even as long as he has you can't help but be an influence you know because even if you even if you hate him he's got to be doing something right you know and since he's a relatively healthy guy who really enjoys lifting weights and works hard he's really a good role model you know in terms of those aspects and uh so yeah i think it's been a big thing and you can, again, like the, there's a correlation someone brought up the other day with, uh, they went to a show and they said, you know, big surprise. Uh, all the good physiques are the ones that go to your gym.

And I said back, like, you know, that may be, but, and this is probably correlated somehow, And I said back, like, you know, that may be, but, and this is probably correlated somehow, you just named all the hardest workers I know in the company. You know, so there's something to be said for that as well, you know. But those are people who drive an hour and a half just to get to the gym. Like, that's crazy when you have two days off. Right. John has, like, I think on the wall of your gym or something. I, I, I can't remember if I saw it or if he told me about it, but he has his drug test results like on the wall, right? Yeah. I, I can't remember how that started, but we just started staking. There's like a few

hundred of them probably at this point, right? Yeah. You know, cause he gets the, I think everyone accuses him of being on drugs until they shake his hand. Because once you see his bone structure, you're like, oh yeah, you should actually be bigger. I was trying to explain that to my son yesterday. I was like, Jake, is John Cena's wrist, for some reason, I'm not sure why, but it's the size of my forearm. Yeah. No, I mean, he's supposed to be a big guy. Yeah.

No, I mean, he's, he's supposed to be a big guy and, you know, you see his, uh, you know, I know his brothers and they, you know, they're pretty muscular and they're pretty big people as well. Right. So, you know, that's, uh, again, people really underestimate. He's part Neanderthal though. Oh, I think. He's a mutant, right? They say there's a small percent, but he's, he's got to be 35, 45%, you know, something like that. He's got something, something's messed up with that pituitary

gland, producing lots of growth hormones. But that's, he also has a weird inflammatory response. It's, he very, reacts very quickly to stuff. His body does,

you know, which is. To respond to training quickly. Yeah. But even like, you know, making this up like, oh, I pulled a muscle in you. If you feel it, it's like, whoa, it's already hot. What, you know, it's really something's going on in there.

Right. You know. It reacts quickly. You touch him that often like that? Very gently in a caring kind of way. Like I'll cradle his head and, you know. Pet him. A lot of heavy petting.

Yeah. A lot of heavy petting. You have a lot of strong guys in your gym. A lot of strong girls. What, what are some numbers that are being thrown around at this place? Um, the, we have a top 10. You have a, you have a record board that I saw when I was there. We have two record boards.

One's a top 10 in, uh, bench, squat, deadlift, snatch, clean, and we call it overhead, but it could be a push press or jerk or whatever. As long as it's from in front, not behind your head. So a lot of people that like own a gym, a lot of people make up their own rules to be like ahead of everybody. And that's like a Cena. That's like a John Cena total, right? So he's got that over the plate, slow pitch that he could just hit out of the park. Is that what this is about?

No, because he's not in first place on a lot of the lifts. Big E from. Who's that benching right there? That's. That's Stoneman? Now known as Tyrus. Who you might see him on Fox News as he's a correspondent. Wow, he's handling some big weight.

He. The long arms. Yeah. He used to work as a security guard for Snoop and, uh. Oh. Came in. The LBC. Lost like 180 pounds when he got to the gym, but kept his bench.

So good for him. Um. Yeah. What are some of the numbers we got thrown around? So the strongest guy is, uh, he wrestles under the name Big E, who competed in the USAPL Nationals in 2011, I believe, and he won. He has a 8.06 deadlift and a high 7 squat and a 575 bench. And the rules in the gym are you can touch and go the bench, but as long as it's not ridiculous.

And since I'm making the rules, then I can make the call. But squats are usually recorded with the camera, and they have to be low, hip crease, passing the knee and all that. Yeah. Nothing cheap. Yeah. And, um, no straps or anything like that. So it's, uh, he's a very strong individual.

Yeah. He's thick. Oh my God. He's huge. A good example. When you bring up Sina is how there's always someone better. There's always someone stronger. And, um. He did that. There's always someone stronger. And,

um, he did that. It's like he, it almost looked like he didn't know he could do it. He was, then he did it fairly easy. Like once he like, it was like, okay,

I could, I could figure this out. The day he came in the gym, I could see the potential. He was already strong, but I was like, oh, you know,

you could win nationals. I know, you know, and he did within like a year and a year and a half, something like that. So, uh, did you go to with him to that meet? Yeah, it was, cause he always needs, it's always good year and a half or something like that so uh did you go to with him

to that meet yeah it was because he always need it's always good to have a coach or have help he had only competed once before just to qualify really so you know it was uh he competed twice and he won us apl nationals as one of it was awesome it was one of the the it was just super fun because no one knew who he was and you know and i'm just sitting there like picking his weights like okay go do that okay and then you just like do like picking his weights, like, okay, go do that. Okay. And then he would just like do whatever's on the bar. And, um, but he's, uh. Did he have competition that day or was it like he whipped up on everybody?

It was, uh, what's his face? Hold on. Maybe Blaine Sumner. Yeah. Blaine. Blaine Sumner. And, uh, Blaine was, uh. I was just trying to think of like the next fattest guy that I could think of.

That was, that was the only competition because, you know, Blaine was there and his squat was something awesome that day. I mean, he's going to do more now, but I think it was low eights or something. And, you know, you don't see that many raw tested, but you don't see me raw 800 squats regardless. Yeah. Period. And, um um so he was a little ahead after squat uh ease bench is really good and then blaine pulled if i remember right his own pr in the deadlift and then i gave he i think it was 799 like he had never done that but it was just like you have to do this he was like all right, all right. And so he got it. You went out there and just did it.

Crushed everybody. It was a, it was a good meet. And then he's, you know, he was all, uh, plus he's, he's jacked. He's huge, you know, and, um, a really muscular guy. And, uh, then he was, he qualified for worlds, but the WWE didn't want him to go because they were going to start using them. So you've been researching this stuff for a long time and you've been obsessed and you've been into it for a long time

and you research a lot of this stuff. What's some things that you've found over the last couple of years that really intrigue you, that you're really interested in that? We were talking yesterday and you're like, yeah, some of this shit,

this is stuff that keeps me up at night. And it's just, you know, just the fascination with lifting. What are some things, uh, maybe more recently? I think, um, most of looking at the journals is a lot of times it's confirmation for stuff that you're already suspicious of, you know, like you don't really need, need uh a study to say that like hey progressive overload on the bench makes you bench more you know but there and whenever i see a study i don't lock into it like okay this means i have to do this now you know it's just kind of like you make these mental notes of um oh, Oh, like Australian rules, football players,

right. Increase their explosiveness when they do this. Let me think about that. Is that anything I could apply? And then you start seeing over the years, like a few other related studies of like, whatever the volume of jumps they're doing. And then like,

Oh, well I kind of don't do that. Maybe I should start changing the way I do things. Cause it looks like it's going in this direction you know but uh so when there's been a lot of false starts on stuff you know whether it's technology or supplements and stuff like that so you take everything with a giant grain of salt you know and from observation you know i think i talked to you about this i've spent a lot of money on genetic tests for uh different people and what you can tell from genetic tests is really cool to get like a definite answer but you are not the father

not those kind of tests oh but we have very we're not there with the research yet to back these things up, but they have some genes that they know influence athletic performance. But that's like kind of saying what influences a very good painter. There are so many factors, you know? And so we can't predict anything, although companies are trying to claim they can. And a lot of it is like. Yeah, they can tell you if you have a gluten allergy or something right those things are easy you can do that it's like testing for brown eyes or something right right right but some a broader concept is really difficult you know so athletic ability like what

does that mean does that mean your your speed does it mean your motivation your strength you know so there are some tests it's like uh uh hey you have a single expression of the myostatin gene you might be more muscular than average and that's from like a 280 pound muscular guy like yeah no shit like i didn't really need the test to tell me that right because uh it's usually the people that really stand out but i've tested a few olympians and stuff it's kind of interesting in these early days of the data to compare like, okay, do they really have this expression of the actin three gene?

Or is that just something that studies think, you know, and stuff like that. So I, I keep up on the research, but I'm very leery of how things are done. As you know, like if you're,

if a professor in whatever school makes a bench press study, how are they benching? How wide is it? Like, you know, if a professor in whatever school makes a bench press study, how are they benching? How wide is it? And who are these people that they're testing it on? And there are so many factors that you need a lot of studies on chains on a bench press in a lot of different ways on a lot of different population to start getting a real answer. But in the meantime, if everyone in your gym is using chains on a bench and their bench is going up, that's good enough for me. You know, so I'm a guy who, you know, like I said to you early, if you have a spoonful of mustard and you're performing better, I don't care why I'm interested, but great, do it. And if everyone does it and everyone's better, cool. Someone will study it eventually. So I try to think of everything like legally, which is weird.

But when you have the money on the line of professional athletes, I think like if this person, which wouldn't really happen, could happen. This person sued me or for some reason I got sued doing this. Could I defend myself in court either scientifically or overwhelmingly anecdotally, you know? So I really don't do anything too insane that I can't back up with a lot of experience or science, you know, something like that. You mentioned yesterday that you kind of helped develop a recipe for finding like an it factor you know

wwe always talks about the it factor and you hear people talk about it with uh celebrities and people that are in movies and all kinds of stuff and uh they were like well we don't really know you know what it is but we know it when we see it can't really define it. That was in the very early stages. And it was more of, I wanted to collect data to start discovering what the it factor is. Because everything in the universe has an answer. We just don't know some of those answers. And until you start looking. It's a numbers game, right, dad? My dad's sitting over there.

Until you start looking. It's a numbers game, right, dad? My dad's sitting over there. And, uh, so, you know, it's, uh, some things that seemed impossible years ago is, uh, you know, it used to be the God in the mountain that made the volcano erupt. I'm going to write this down. Let me, let me know. I need to, I need to pick up a score. Go ahead.

Okay. Let's go through it. Do I have it? What? it. Do I have it? What? It. Do I have it? Oh, no. Oh. No.

I mean, you might have had it, but it left a long time ago. Really? Yeah. Ouch. What year do you think? 1977. Wow. Were you born in 77 or 76?

76. I was trying to guess. You peaked early. Yeah. I can't get it back. No, it's long gone, my friend. It's gone. 76. I was trying to guess. You peaked early. Yeah. I can't get it back. No, it's long gone, my friend. It's gone. Yeah.

I was going to like write down the formula and then I was going to get it and I was going to go to WWE. I was going to challenge Cena. I had this whole plan and now I don't know where to start. Well, the it factor we're talking about is kind of the same as saying. I'm going to scribble this plan out. Yeah. Not very good.

It's kind of the same as saying artistic I'm going to scribble this plan out. Yeah. Not very good. It's kind of the same as saying artistic ability, and it is a huge thing to answer. Autistic ability, I thrive. I've noticed that about you. Mine's through the roof. You're actually a little too emotional, I think. I think so too. I've been emotional today. So it's.

Although you did loosen up my traps a little bit for me that was some good and my hips good man-on-man touching hey now um i don't know what were you talking about it factor yeah i think that stuff can be you could eventually come close to identifying key factors that influence it, but it starts with data collection. And that's what I wanted to do is like, what data do we need to look for? And I think with the knowledge I have of psychology, like you could do that.

You could start figuring out what to look for. And not that you could absolutely predict success, but if you understand what you're trying to train, even like, you know, how much of it to train even like you know how much of it is the way you speak how much of it is your facial expression how much of it is a natural ability you know then you can start getting closer to defining that and not just wrestling but a lot of industries you know i mean we do that in sport we try to look at like how much potential does this person have and that's essential for sports and who to recruit, who to spend time.

And I guess with WWE, the huge thing now is, um, you know, it's a business and it's a legitimate business and it, it has been for, for some years now. I know it's been making money for a long time, but there was a lot of, uh, there was a lot of things that, that were messing a lot of the athletes up. Um, I guess, um, but having the it factor now goes beyond just being able to be entertaining. It goes beyond being able to look good. Um, you know, so maybe instead of getting excited about somebody who's seven feet tall and ripped, maybe what they get excited about looks a lot different now. Yeah. I think it's, uh,

you know, again, hate to stroke his ego, but Sina was a big factor of the way he can conduct himself in, on talk shows or in interviews and stuff like that. It'd be really annoying if your other talent, because that's what you have to live up to is the ability to change gears and maybe go outside your character in just the right

way to come across as a person that they want on their show right but that's that's real life too i can picture the other guys like do i go out and try to learn chinese or play the piano what do i do but you know that kind of thing that's a, uh, I mean, there's not that many people who put that kind of effort forward. And when they talk about what they want, you know, I'm, I'm really big on like hypocrisy and honesty and stuff. And I tell them like, well, what are you doing to get it? Then shut the fuck up. Like, if you're not doing the things to accomplish it, then you're just saying, I wish I magically had these abilities. it, then you're just saying, I wish I magically had these abilities. But if you really want to learn how to play the piano, as soon as you get home, download some online lessons and start doing it or shut your mouth. Like, I want to hear that. Those are just pretend thoughts, you know? Right.

So, um, I think he's someone who puts his money where his mouth is, you know, and he really does these things and it's uh it's good that he has the resources to do it and he finds the time and that's huge as people don't uh they say they don't have the time you know but then as soon as you say like how much tv do you watch for a week oh like an hour a night you have an hour you just chose to watch tv instead yeah and it sounds like uh maybe too methodical but i mean you really life is about where are you going to put your time that's that question of how much does your tv cost and somebody says oh it's 400 bucks it's like no it doesn't cost 400 bucks because you however

much time it takes you to watch it all the time is how much it costs yeah it's uh bleeding a lot more money out of your pocket than you might think. Yeah. But we got to watch wrestling though, right? True. It's on twice a week. I mean, we got to, we got to try to keep up with what's going on.

Or you just get the highlights online. Oh. Just. As long as you watch the commercials, I guess. Just catch some of the quick clips at the end. Yeah. Papa Bell sitting right behind me, just handing me a note.

It factor or idiot factor. The idiot factor. Some of that. Is very strong in you. And in fact, people would like to study it, you know, but the it factor, it, it left a long time ago. Replaced by the idiot factor. 77.

I wrote it down. Okay, good. So you remember. Yeah, I got, I, I at least got that. Maybe the formula has 77 ingredients and every year you lost one. Maybe. Maybe. My last question for you.

Obviously, once you start lifting, you know, you, you, you said like why you started and how you started like learning, reading, whatever book that was. I can't remember. So once you started gaining size and stuff, it's pretty obvious like that motivated you to keep working out. What motivated you to keep learning though? You know, to, to actually want to, you know, kind of answer people's questions when they come to you. Knowing what was possible, I guess. And, um, I was never a guy who made quick gains it was always very very slow and steady so i'd always thought i was doing something wrong you know because sometimes you'd see people like i got 40 pounds on my bench last week and um and i just wanted to see if i was i guess if i personally was doing everything possible. And then once I

was working with people, I wanted, I, I don't like being mediocre. I think I'm a mediocre person at a lot of things, but you can put the effort in to be, uh, beyond mediocre. You know, I don't think, uh, I'm stronger than the average guy, but I'm not crazy special or anything like that, but I haven't stopped. I think you're special. Thanks. That means a lot. You guys are too cute. more proud of the fact I've been able to, uh, bench press 405 for 20 years or so than what my best bench ever was.

It's just because it's, that's the consistency, you know? That's an amazing thing because people are always trying to be, uh, special or spectacular and they don't realize that what can really separate, what can really separate them out is just to be good for a long period of time. Yeah. And even just holding on, just holding on. Like you just, you, uh, stay the same or similar body composition, uh, to what you were when you were in your twenties and you're 60. And this really is,

you held on to something that other people couldn't hold onto anymore. It's really, uh, the boring answer for a lot of things is like, how do you succeed? It's like, be really good at your job. And this,

I feel like. But you don't have to be great. Like you'll be great by being good for a long, like if people know that I consistently put this over here and you consistently do it and you do it right, that's great. And you can, you can get bonuses and you can get rewards and you can move up in the company. I'm going to give you more. Right. The more you show, the more you'll get. And that's the, uh, that's the trick. And people are always looking for like hacks and stuff like that to make the

process faster. I like what you said about hacks the other day. It was great. What did I say? You said something clever. Think it's something clever. Go ahead. Ready?

Go five, four, three, two, one. That was a fast count. I got nothing. Fired.

Oh no. Fucking fired. You're off the team again. Again? The second time. Second time today. Yeah. That means you're no. Fucking fired. You're off the team again. Again? The second time. Second time today. Yeah. That means you're doing something good though.

Yeah. Oh, the other day you said, or yesterday you said, um, that, uh, now I forgot. What were we talking about? Hacks. Hacks. That's right. What you said was, is that, uh, you know, while somebody else is spending all this time trying to figure out a hack, you're halfway, you worked halfway through it. Yeah. And that's, uh, you know, I, I like

being efficient and everything, but if you just sit there waiting, like nothing happens. So you just have to, as, as you said the other day, you just have to start. And once you start, like just start and go. And like, if you don't think your program's perfect, it doesn't matter. Like you'll never be perfect. So you just go in the gym and you start working out and you make mistakes and you'll get better. It's kind of like what we were talking about earlier about nootropics and stuff. Like the one guy that's going to spend a week trying to find a good combination of cognitive enhancers. The other guy just gets work done.

Yeah. You know, so it's like, okay, you're trying to get this, uh, an edge on somebody, but you're already starting behind. Right. So. Well, and somebody might, might've just went for a run. They might as well just run up a hill and then they feel great and they're inspired and they, they get some of the similar effects. Maybe it's not the same thing as taking some of these pills or whatever, but there's a lot of different ways to get there. or whatever, but there's a lot of different ways to get there.

I think it's just, you know, I know knowing my strengths early on and my weaknesses just motivated me to maximize my strengths and minimize my weaknesses, I guess. So I just kept learning as much as I could. What do you know about some of these brutal John Cena workouts from the past? Have you been, have you fallen victim to some of these, uh, Indianapolis 500 on a lake press, the fifties parties, some of the various torture.

I know of a lot of them. And I think everyone who started in the bodybuilding realm tortured themselves. The one that got me the most, and I've told this story before. So you've done a bunch of these with him before? Well, no. He said something about squatting 405 for 20. So I'm a good bit smaller than him, but I've always been someone who thinks like,

well, I'll just do whatever the bigger guys do, and then I'll be okay. So I was going to squat 405 for 20 and I trained for a long time. It seemed like a long time, you know, maybe it was, you know, four, six months, something like that, the building up. And I got to like 375, 385. Then I can't remember what happened. Like maybe I twisted something, but I, I stopped, you know,

right before I got there. So years later we were in a car and I was like, uh, you know, I never got that four or five or 20. He's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, you squatted four or five or 20. That's really impressive. I wanted to do it and train my ass off. I was like, oh, I didn't even know what squat was then.

That was probably like halfway down. Like there's a, I never squat four or five or 20. And I was like, that was my only goal for like months of my life. That's all I thought about, you know, and it never really happened. Son of a bitch. So technically I didn't lose either. So there's that. Yeah.

I know that he was, uh, he loved doing these crazy workouts with just insane amounts of reps. I think a lot of this stuff, I think he was doing in college. He's always been pretty good at reps too. Yeah. You know, for a guy who now hates anything above five reps, like he's, he's good at it when he has to be. When you started lifting, uh, were there other people that were supportive of it? Like, was your family supportive of it? Your parents, your, uh, siblings or.

They were. Like, this is weird. What are you doing? You know, my parents were supportive. Um, but one of the things that made me who I am i think is you know you could say it slowed me down is i really didn't have that many like no one took me under their wing or anything like that and i didn't really look for that i guess but i had to find out so many things on my own i got used to the to get any answer you have to research a lot right you know just look and look and look

so um that taught me a lot because if you're looking for like how did this guy clean and jerk whatever you end up about reading some guys from the 60s then you know all their names and you know where they train then you learn about york barbell and bob hoffman and like you read books on hoffman and you read books on joe weider like it all kind of spreads out but um that the fact that i felt like i was kind of isolated in my love of it and my drive to learn helped me learn more because and help me like have that thought of like just because no one else is there doesn't mean I can't do it, you know? And that's to this day, like I'm my only employee,

you know, and, uh, I should have some employees that really help, but you know, it's still like, I know I can get it done myself. No,

it's interesting. Do you think that, uh, the way that people learn now, do you think it's kind of screwed up because it's not the same? Like you, you don't have to i guess maybe do as much digging and then also too uh with the way that google works and that's

primarily what people search right uh google's just feeding you what it what it wants to feed you you know it's the top three are the only thing people are looking at and uh you know do things have changed a lot in that fashion and maybe there's something missing there? I think, well, I'd sound like an old guy if I said that. I don't like this Google machine thing. No, overall, it's like it's YouTube, Google, all that stuff is amazing and beneficial. And of course, there's some downsides. If I had access to those kinds of things, like if I could get my hands on one training hall tape or one,

like the first West side video or something that was like, Oh my God, I'm going to see a box squat for real now. Like you never saw it. That was the only place is a VHS tape that was like shittily filmed or something. And, um, now you can see that literally with the click of a vhs tape yeah that was like shittily filmed or something and um now you can see that literally with the click of a button and you can see a thousand variations right and that's the biggest problem i think is the information overload of what is correct because back in the day i got to box squat but it's not from yeah it in the back in the day there was one correct thing. It was

how does Ed Cohn train or how do they do it at Westside? Now, you have all these different opinions and it's just complete information overload. It's hard for me even to sift through and knowing the stuff I know,

I see so much bullshit that people don't know even that are delivering the information is wrong. You know, they just, they don't know any better. And it's things like, wow, I would never say that with that much confidence, but they're trying to get hits or, you know, whatever they're trying to do. But overall, the access to information these days is absolutely incredible because you can get like any article ever. You can see a thousand examples, but you have to be very careful about where you're getting your information from and know the right sources to look at. What's the deal with your app? My app is something I created for myself.

It's called Moji. is something I created for myself. It's called Moji. And the company suggested that. Almost spelled Magi, M-O-G-Y. Yeah, either way works, either pronunciation. So I needed a way to deliver workouts. Something that annoyed me was we don't collect the data from working out. But like I said, if you start collecting data,

you can start to get answers. So that Let Me Deliver Workouts is an app where I can create a workout on my computer. It goes to their phone. They put in their sets and how much weight they used, and it comes back to me. And then you can look at that kind of like Excel, but I don't have to put the

data in so that expanded to outside just my use you know there's video examples with all the exercises and all that stuff but now there's workouts for sale if you know i don't train you you can buy a workout power lifting whatever and it's me telling you how to work out and how to do stuff and you might say, I don't trust the information coming from this guy. And that's fine because now you've eliminated one of your sources. But, you know, I just, uh, it's a way, the biggest thing with my workouts that feedback I've gotten over the years is I it's awesome. Cause I don't have to think, you know, and I like thinking about working out,

but most people don't like the, an athlete or a person just tell me what to do. That's going to benefit me. It's a waste of my time. And even somebody like Sina that loves working out, maybe he just doesn't have the time all the time to really think about, you know, uh, how to methodically, uh, put up, put this training block together so he can be leaner and stronger in the next four weeks. Right. So it's just, uh, you know, it's the same thing my clients get. It's just workouts that get, I have to think I'm checking boxes, doing what it says. Okay. I'm good. So now we're selling that online because people like it.

Favorite TV show. I don't watch a ton of TV. Favorite movie? I haven't seen a ton of movies lately. Are you a book guy? Yeah. But movies, I think you have to go into genre, you know, like favorite comedy and stuff like that. Favorite comedy?

I have to go classic and say airplane just because it broke the mold you know kind of opened the doors for other things i love airplane yeah what's what's your favorite comedy i like a lot of that kind of stuff too um when you say airplane i'm thinking of like top secret and some of those other movies that are similar to that. Over the top kind of. Yeah. Naked Gun. Yeah. Naked Gun is really good. I like Dumb and Dumber a lot.

Yes. I like Ace Ventura, Pet Detective a lot. That is a really good movie. And that's why we're friends because those are my top two right there. That is an really good movie. And that's why we're friends, because those are my top two right there. That is an amazing movie. Both of those are amazing movies. Dumb and Dumber is just brilliantly dumb. Oh, yeah.

It's unbelievable. What's your favorite TV show? I'm trying to think of a favorite TV show. favorite TV show? I guess now, you know, I'm only like one program at a time because I don't really watch a lot. My son sitting over there,

we watched some Die Hard yesterday and that was really cool. That's just an old, old movie. But from TV wise, I'm watching a show right now called Goliath, which I like a lot.

It has Billy Bob Thornton in it. Okay. You know, you just, you find, you find something and you just get involved in it because you're bored. We need something to do every once in a while. Yeah. Let's see other TV shows. Nothing even comes to mind because I really have not watched a ton of tv you know in in years but i guess i watch walking dead a lot i like that show what's your favorite song favorite song hmm uh i'd have to

say nothing else matters by metallica oh that's nice very very pretty and it changed i can sing it for you that's okay no i mean i can. They did a fine job, so. I can, yeah, I can. How about you? You're big into music, right? I like music, yes. Do you think a hot dog is a sandwich? That's a great question.

I'm going to say, I would say yes. I don't know the definition of sandwich, but you have one piece of bread that's still connected, yet it acts as two pieces. This is where some of the controversy comes in. Yeah. Because some sub sandwiches, they're still connected, but it's still a sandwich. Yeah. I mean, maybe the technical term for it is hot dog sandwich,

where it has its own variation. So that way, yeah, that way you're not surprised when you get a hot dog. Because a hot dog, if the bun comes apart as you're eating it, so now you have two disconnected pieces, it doesn't really change anything. I kind of think that the criteria should be that there's two ingredients at least, minimum. So like a hot dog by itself, I don't think that would be a sandwich. It's a hundred meat parts though. That's true. But you're talking like, like hot dog and then like bacon.

But like, if you just have, yeah, right. Or if you just have like peanut butter. Okay. You have a peanut butter sandwich. On bread. Like it doesn't seem like a sandwich. Like it just seems like you're broke. Peanut butter.

Add some honey to it. Add some marshmallow to it. Add some jelly to that shit. But then that has the two slices of bread. You know, they're separated. So I think that qualifies it as a sandwich. What about if you have one slice of bread and the other slice. That's really bad.

That's the worst. And the other, and the other, and the other slices is the heel of the bread. That's not much of a sandwich either. Okay. Well, like you wouldn't serve that to anybody else.

You wouldn't serve that to, to a guest. That's a bad day. That's what that is. I would think that the term sandwich means an object sandwiched between two other objects. So even if it's the heel

of the bread, it's a shitty sandwich. But it would still be a sandwich on technicality. And... So when I say I've been eating a poop sandwich without the bread for many years, that's not really a sandwich because it's not smushed between anything.

It just means you've been eating poop. I've been eating, yeah. What if you have, uh, two pieces of buttered bread, are you eating a butter sandwich or just two pieces of bread? No, you're not. It's not, it's not a sandwich. I think you need two different things going on.

That's just gotta be a contrast. You know, toasted. Yeah. Just two pieces of toast on top of each other. I think bread and butter is underrated. Just like some really good bread and some

butter. Are you hungry? I'm always hungry. Right. What's your favorite food? Nothing really jumps out. I mean, okay, I'll say this.

You're from Massachusetts, right? Massachusetts and Georgia, kind of a combo. Pizza is big on the East Coast. Pizza is a standard, I think. Yeah. I mean, that's always a go-to. People can't help but say pizza. Yeah.

But I do judge restaurants a lot by their chocolate milkshake, you know? So, uh, I'm listening. If they're doing, if they're doing something interesting and

they can see how they make it. Write this down. Is it in the big silver cups? It's an actual milkshake machine. Oh yeah. Or did they just get some milk and some ice cream? And then they give you the extra.

Yeah. And the extra tastes so good, so much better for some reason. It's been sitting in the cold cup, you know, and that's, that's essential. That's showing extra effort. And, uh, did they use chocolate ice cream and chocolate syrup or just chocolate ice cream or did they use vanilla ice cream and chocolate syrup? And then, so, you know, there's a lot of options. What's better?

That kind of depends on the person. Double down on that chocolate. You can't mix too many things at one time. There's a, there's a place in Vegas that I went to, uh, like Burger Bar or Burger Barn, I think. It has like a $65 burger. Thing was amazing. It was, it was.

It was worth it? Oh yeah. It was totally worth it. Yeah. There was a. But, but they, they had a shake that you could put like anything you want into it. And, uh, my friend Katie Hogan, she went, she went to ham on this thing and, and I was like, you just killed all the flavor because you mixed, I know you're excited, but you

mixed way too many things together. When does a milkshake just become a blizzard? You know, because you've mixed too many solid objects in it. Or what about like when a little kid, yeah, that's true. Or like when a little kid just ends up with a soupy, like a bowl of mush, like.

With one piece of ice cream in the middle. Yeah. My kids like they'll, you know, they'll put a bunch of toppings on it. Or if we go to one of those yogurt places. Yeah. They put the most disgusting things on top of their ice cream. i'm like what is wrong with you it happened yesterday my daughter turned 10 so for her 10th birthday we we got her diabetes um we went we went to a frozen yogurt place

and she got like some weird mixture it was like a blue ice cream she put gummy bears, cinnamon toast crunch, chocolate chips, chocolate dipped strawberry, chocolate shell syrup all over it, marshmallows. And I'm like, you know, that's not going to be good. But she went, I mean. This is too much. She couldn't finish it, of course. But this bucket weighed like 10 pounds and it was like $7. I'm like, well. Jake knows what's up over here.

He gets like one flavor and he puts like one or two things on there that go together. Yeah. See, that's, that's a. You don't put like peppermint on there and then a peanut butter cup. Maybe that's reflective of. You're going to run into some problems. Like your personality and how much control you feel you are of your own life. Like the out of control people just put everything on and they have no real direction or purpose.

But then the people who have it all figured out like, no, I would just like some chocolate sauce on top, please. And then it's just to like mess with me. It's like rebellion. Yeah. I'm going to show you dad. I can do whatever I want, but whatever I want. So I'll just put this peanut butter cup with an oreo on top what is your favorite food did we get there yet um figure that out is it pizza right i i think that's i mean

that's an easy thing to say but it depends on the time sometimes you just want a steak you know and then pizza's not going to satisfy the steak craving so uh i not a, I'm not a big foodie. You know, food's always kind of been a means to an end. It's something I have to stop and do so I can keep going. So I'm a boring person to ask that too. What's your,

uh, what's your diet like? It's pretty. You gotta pay attention to it a lot or? I do, but it's habit at this point. So I tend to, in general,

eat, you know, high protein like everyone and all that. What about in and out? That's certainly legal at certain times. Being that I'm on the West Coast, that's going to happen when I'm out here. But I tend to eat low-ish carb, not on purpose. If carbs happen, they happen.

French fries? At times, you know, but if I have a choice, I avoid fast food. I've heard they're a waste of time, French fries. If they're in the value meal, I mean, it's valuable. What if you don't order them, but they still end up in the bag?

You've ever had that happen? Then I think you're obligated to not waste food, you know? And you have to have it. Yeah. The French fries that fall out of the actual wrapper are better than the French fries that are in there.

Well, those don't count. They're not in the French fry container. So they're kind of just escapees, you know? But, uh, yeah, I don't do anything. I stay pretty consistent. I know what I can get away with. So if I want uh, yeah, I don't do anything. I've stayed pretty consistent. I know what I can get away with. So if I want in and out, I'll eat it. And if I get a little soft, I'll tighten up and then, and I get, try to get soft again

by eating pizza. Just kind of pick and choose. Do you, um, program for yourself? You use your own, do you just use your own app and put it off into the ether and then it figures something out for you or something i do i work out with cena so i do a lot of his workouts which are probably that sounds fake by the way name dropping well you know i wanted to be specific um so it's like 80 of what i need i'd say as a person if i was going to program my own stuff but uh it's good enough.

So I do that. And then maybe, you know, little things on the side that I'm on my own for a while. Do you catch him sometimes on some stuff? Kick his ass? He's, you know, traveling a lot or he just, he's just hard to beat. He's, he's hard to beat, which is okay. Because my, my goal is always like, I'm on the board for a few of the records and my goal is to get myself off, you know, but also to stay on. You want to coach other people.

Right. So I want to put up the best fight that I can, you know. Unfortunately, as I age, I can feel it creeping in, you know, but, you know, I'm not doing my job if people can't be better than me. Right. And, uh, so, um, with him,

there's a few little things here and there, but he's got me on most things. Where can people find you? Um, you can kind of find me online. If you want people to find you. It's hard to get to me online, but you can get there if you want.

I'm just a little slow to respond because I have a lot of stuff to do. And, um, I, uh, I apologize, but a lot of people write trying to get in touch with famous people, but I don't do that ever.

So please don't bother. And, um, how can I get Mark Bell's number? That's what they're all going to ask you. Oh, that's, I put that on the website.

Okay. Good. So it's just right put that on the website. Oh, okay, good. Out there. So. It's just right at the top. Yeah. Any other questions over there, Andrew? We're all good?

We're all good, man. All right. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. Thanks, my man. All right. Appreciate it.