Mark Bell's Power Project - Whealth - Movement Tools to Rid Chronic Pain || MBPP Ep. 804

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Andrew Dettelbach and Katie Goss of Whealth, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about how Andrew and Katie had to seek their own answers for what was causing their pain which lead to them helping thousands via their Whealth platform. Follow Andrew on IG: https://www.instagram.com/the.shirtlessdude/ Follow Katie on IG: https://www.instagram.com/katertot/ Follow Whealth on IG: https://www.instagram.com/whealth/ More info on Whealth: https://spreadwhealth.com/ Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://www.naboso.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 15% off! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code POWERPROJECT20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #Whealth #PowerProject #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast

Power Project family, this episode is brought to you by Vivo Barefoot Shoes. Now, we've been wearing Vivos for over a year now, and we've been loving these shoes because unlike your normal lifting shoes, Converse, et cetera, they have a wide toe box, because we have some wide, fat feet. But for everybody, you need to be able to spread your feet within your shoes, and then you want them compacted. So they have a wide toe box, they're also thin, and they're also extremely flexible. Unlike most shoes that people wear, they don't move. You're putting your foot into a cast, which isn't good for the strength of your feet.

And as athletes and lifters, our force is generated from the ground. So we need shoes that we can express our strength through, and that's why we love Vivo. They also look f***ing amazing. They don't look like s***, Andrew. No, they don't. Not at all. These are my absolute favorite shoes. And we could talk and brag about them, but you really just got to get your awesome feet into these

amazing shoes. You guys got to head over to vivo barefoot.com slash power project. When you guys go there, you'll see a backstory on why we love these shoes so much, but when you're ready to purchase, make sure you guys use promo code power project 20 to save 20% off links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes yeah and seaman what was your 23 and me dog no that shit was a waste of money i really my my grandmother um my dad's mom is like your skin tone i have an aunt that's also like close to your skin tone too on my mom's side so i was like there's got to be something mixed in here nah there's just like there are lighter skinned africans and i was 99.9 percent

west african nigerian like there's nothing else in there and i just paid 23andme a bunch of money well not a bunch but to figure that shit out so it was cool to know i'm black really really confirmed yeah couldn't tell. I was blended. I'm a bunch of different things. Oh, like what? What's the most fancy thing? None of it's fancy. Paid for 23andMe and found out that I was white.

Yeah, but it was like France and Italy and shit like that. I don't know. Okay. It wasn't nothing exciting. No Viking or anything. I was expecting Viking from this dude. German and English. Ah, the German makes sense.

Y'all, yeah. Makes kind of the whole thing we were talking about with Graham super funny now. So Graham Tuttle, who comes up on almost every podcast now, we were at a sauna. He's here every day. Oh, great. Sauna story. We see this man, right? And this guy is 6 guy's 65230 moves his body in the most wild ways right great ability movement and graham's like you you are a specimen i think when god

made adam he was looking at you and every person should be like you and i was like god damn he makes me really uncomfortable he won't dial it back he doesn't he goes the other way you're like where is this going we were working out together and he's just watching me in the gym I'm like

with his hands on his hips he's in awe and then he picks up his camera and he's just following me with the camera everywhere yeah that's amazing you know

I started seeing some of the content from you guys by you guys just, like, messing around. And I really like that a lot because I think in the fitness space and movement space, like, some of this stuff can be boring. Some of it can be really thick if you get, like, a doctor-y person on there trying to explain stuff. a doctor-y person on there trying to explain stuff. How did you guys, like, do either one of you have a doctor background or, like, either one of you, like, what's some of the background and how did you start to discover ways of helping people? Yeah, so my background is in nursing, and I also trained as a Pilates instructor

and just really dove into movement and biomechanics. And then Andrew's background is in kinesiology. That's where I stopped. I did not want to go to PT school. Out here, it was going to be like 200 grand and starting with 60 to 80 grand a year. Didn't want to pay the loans back. And I had the opportunity to work in the clinic. And I've had a lot of hands-on experience with people. And I do not like working with people in person. So I knew that just from doing it. I'm like, why would I spend so much money to do something I don't like to do? And, you know, we grew a following to like 1.1 million and had the opportunity to just

take everything online. Like why just service people in a 15 mile radius when you can help 140 plus countries around the world? Yeah. So. Yeah, it was really cool because we got a lot of people reach out from countries where they don't have access to things like physical therapy. So we were able to impact people on, you know, a massive scale that didn't otherwise have

access to the tools that we have here in the U.S. You have options. You can go get a PT or go, you know, see a doctor. Why did you leave nursing, by the way? I was really frustrated with the healthcare system in the United States. I am really passionate about health and wellness and fitness. I was an inpatient cardiac nurse, so I took care of a lot of post-open heart patients, heart attacks, things like that. Saw a lot of patients who had diseases that were a result of their lifestyle,

diet, a lot of diabetes, heart disease. Be less fat. Yeah, I mean, really. And, you know, we were able to do incredible things and literally save people's lives. But, you know, health care is a business. And at the end of the day, the hospital is interested in making money. And they were always giving us more patients and taking away our resources. So even when you had a patient who was really interested in making lifestyle changes to improve their health,

I didn't have the time to spend to educate them. So here we were shoving people out the door without any tools, knowing there was zero chance that they're going to go home and be successful and knowing that they're going to come back and they're going to have another heart attack. And it's really hard to feel good about doing that work after a while. I just got really burnt out like I think so many nurses do. Was there any like information exchange between those patients like about nutrition or health, you know, things that they could try or do or look into? Yeah. I mean, you know, you get a printout when you're discharged and it's like you're on a cardiac diet, watch your sodium. That's pretty much the extent of it um and like i said you have some people who would ask really great

questions you know and unfortunately you'll have a bed alarm going off or another patient having arrhythmia like something you need to leave and tend to and with the budget cuts they cut um like our diabetic educator who would come in and teach them nutrition and stuff. So it was just, just watching them, you know, be more interested in money than people's health outcomes just got really, just got really frustrating. And I started to hate it. What's like the biggest issue that you guys are seeing? Like when people are reaching out to you, when people are sliding into the DMS or people are making comments on your Instagram, like what's, is there like a common injury that you just keep seeing happening again

or performance issue that people are having that you're like, oh man, why is this like a thing right now? Yeah. I mean, we get, people reach out to us for any injury in the body. Lower back is one that we see a lot of and lower back, shoulder, knee is usually, those are the three big ones. And, you know, we, we have a program available for them to, to improve, but anyone that comes to us for, you know, ankle, neck, you know, hips, upper back, we can service them as well. But the main issue

is going to be those other areas. And I think, you know, a lot of it just comes down to people not moving as much. We're eating a very inflammatory diet. We're staying up late. We're not getting enough sleep. We're not – And the same only sleeps two hours a night. I don't need as much sleep.

That's why he has to drink coffee nonstop. That's why he's so lean too because his body is always burning calories because he's always awake. Dude, that's the secret? Yeah. You just sleep two hours. We've talked about this before we don't need to go into really only two hours maybe two to two and a half are you you're serious no he said it once on the podcast and it became like a thing yeah a bunch of people just continue to think i sleep even though we specifically said that we were fucking around on that show we were laughing even even with this conversation right now somebody has already typed up a comment calling

bullshit or saying see he's on steroids he only sleeps two hours without hearing the part where he said no i was joking and hearing mark saying we fought we're fucking around this whole time they they didn't hear any of that they still they still commented saying this is bullshit exactly yeah yeah what part of I'm 99% African do you not understand? Did you see tomorrow Usman on Rogan? Yeah, I saw that. And did you hear him talk about Africa? He's like, walk through Africa, man.

You're going to see some big motherfuckers. You're going to see a bunch of Francis and Gattas is what he said. Yeah, yeah. That's what he said. Oh, God. That was amazing. Back to what you were saying. Inflammatory diets. Two hours of sleep. Yeah. Um, surrounding yourself with people that aren't, you know,

uplifting a healthy lifestyle. I mean, if you're trying to get healthy and you're around a bunch of friends that want to drink every night, it's going to be hard to do that. Um, so your social network makes a big difference. We approach pain and injury from a multifactorial perspective. So we're looking at the mindset, nutrition, movement, lifestyle, fill in blanks, education about pain, like how it works, the neurological aspects, physiological, chemical aspects. So there's a lot of things that we can tackle when it comes to pain. Some things are going to work more for other people than some other aspects. So if movement might be the thing that people need, that's the thing that they think they need. It's what they want.

Yeah. We show movement on our pages all the time. We're doing all this crazy shit with our bodies. And that's what they think we need. And they come into our program. We kind of trick them a little bit. We give them a lot of other stuff. They get the movement. The movement does matter, but it's not the whole thing. You know, people want to know, like, I have a disc herniation. What's the best stretch for that?

Or what's the best exercise? Like, they want that quick fix. And, you know, a lot of people that we have have had chronic pain for a while. And pain is a great motivator. If it's not debilitating enough, people will keep chasing that quick fix. I want the Theragun or the medication or the pill or the massage or the whatever it is that is an external thing that I can use to feel better where I don't have to put in that work. I don't have to address my lifestyle factors, and I don't have to make changes and really challenge myself. Theragun is a great example because you get to sit there on your couch and just like hammer

away at the thing on your leg that's bothering you and you don't have to really do much, right? You can watch your show. It doesn't interrupt anything. Halfway works, but it's not the whole piece of the puzzle. It's a tool. Right. Yeah.

It can be great for pain relief if you continue doing it every day. And if you're doing it in conjunction with other stuff. Exactly. If your hamstring bothers you, it would be a good idea to work on the hamstring with the Theragun, but also try to get length and strength and blood into the area via, like, pulling a sled or doing RDLs or whatever the hell exercise. Walking. Well, whatever. Just get some movement in other than just sitting on the couch watching Game of Thrones.

Maybe go out and sprint some 400s. I did that. Now my hamstring's pissed. Yeah, how'd that go for you? You okay? Yeah, it was great. Need a rub down? Grandma will do it.

He steered the glutes right at me. Go for it. Yes, I saw. You want the other butt cheek? You're not gonna okay you're you're you talk too much but you're actually gonna rub him down oh i will okay cameron and i my other co-founder uh we went over there with him and he just he's like we're doing four by four hundred meter sprints i'm like i haven't done this in seven years and of course i'm only like five seconds behind graham who does this weekly. And I'm feeling it. My calves are lit constantly.

Yeah. And my hamstring is a little pissed. But it's fun. It's nice to be able to dive into some different stuff. Yep. Have you always been – like your body moves in some really crazy, weird, contorted ways. Have you always been like that? I've been like this for instance

he's uh standing on the knuckles of his feet you should actually just yeah go ahead and walk you can walk in front of the podcast sorry andrew you guys are killing me the past two episodes we have some freaks that'd be coming onto this podcast see if you can grab a video oh yeah yeah for sure but andrew can do all these weird things he's blowing his stomach out oh he just put his elbows in a weird way i don't know what's going on jesus you would squat there too that one gets me wow wow wow wow so are other are there other people uh in his family that can do that or something or no no no i mean there are there absolutely is a genetic component but my mom

does do that too tell a thing she does is she also have erlos suspected and she hasn't been um officially diagnosed yeah oh you have like something. What is that? So yeah, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. It is a connective. I didn't want to call it a disease. It's a connective tissue disorder. Oh, okay. So genetic, it's inherited.

You can have a spontaneous gene mutation, but it just means that your connective tissues are a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more flexible. Can he be like jujitsu'd? It would be tough. I mean, your neck, obviously. You can always choke people out. tissues are a little bit more lax a little bit more flexible can he be like jujitsu um i mean your neck obviously you can always choke people you can get choked but like i mean he like his his your elbow does have an end range so at some point it's going to break so yeah he can but it's he's a harder guy to find the leverage might be harder like with hoist remember hoist like uh matt hughes i think it was had him like in an arm bar and he was just like looking at him like

he didn't his his arm didn't get broken in that, huh? No. The Gracies are notorious for letting their shit break. They will. I think in this case, I think... I don't know much about Jiu-Jitsu, but the leverage that he had, he put everything into it. His hips were as high as he could get them,

but they were just running into the mat. He was on the mat and then... He just had better leverage. But in terms of him and even her, like they would be more difficult to deal with in that type of situation just because they have really good range. If I knew what I was doing. Well, of course. But to answer your question, no, I haven't always been able to do like the weird contorted movements that I can do throughout my body. That came about as a result of pain.

I had no other option but to start to explore. I thought you were going to have a cool superhero story. You fell into a vat of chemicals. And then you came out and you're able to move all crazy. There's nothing like that? Who's the Fantastic Four guy? Ben, the stretchy dude. Mr. Fantastic.

There you go. You should be Reed Richards for Halloween. You should. You could pull it off. But anyway, keep on on my bad no uh nothing nothing cool like that i mean i've had just some serious injuries since i was like seven or eight years old that were lasted a year or two at a time and just worked through that my entire life and you didn't know why those were happening at the time like i didn't find out until i was like 27, 28. Katie's like, I think you have this condition that I have, like really stretchy shit. And I went to the doctor and he's like, you've got some stretchy shit.

So I was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos. How would the injuries happen? Because you would think that if you're more pliable that you would be less, right? And Seamus says you're a tight mofo. I didn't put it that way. I was much nicer about it i am tight yeah yeah from the butthole all the way up yeah there's a spectrum you got super super floppy and just super stiff it's there's always a middle

ground you want to be in so if you're really hyper mobile like i don't get any stretches from from doing this i don't feel any stretching sensation my joint doesn't get the same that's so funny right like it's fucking wild so you know i can i can be in a position not know where my joints are and that's where a lot of these people are like yeah i got some wild flexion there in the shoulder yeah um but if i But sometimes I'll carry a weight overhead and have no idea that I'm like 15 degrees off from stacked. So that's like, especially with load, that's how that can really fuck some things up. Exactly. Same thing with the elbow and the wrist for a lot of the hypermobile individuals. And strength is just key.

All the guys that are listening to this that are like tight are like, see, that's why I don't mess with that shit. I knew you'd get hurt if you're all floppy like that well how did you find out about it kate because like you found out later in life did you yeah so i after the birth of my second child um had some really significant pelvic floor issues actually um i had something called pelvic organ prolapse so the uterus is held up by utero-cycral ligaments and mine just basically stretched out like a rubber band that never recoiled. So my – essentially my organs were kind of starting to fall out of my body. And I went to the doctor and was asking why is this happening and I was just kind of told, well, we all get dealt some shitty cards. We don't really know.

It's something that usually happens to like people, but we're going to do surgery and fix it. This is a dumb question, but was there a lot of pain associated with that? There actually wasn't really pain. My small intestine had prolapsed. It was uncomfortable, but I wouldn't say it was painful. It's a very... It feels like you have a bowling ball in your pelvis.

How great is that for doctors just to be like, yeah, that's really rare. That's pretty crazy. You just dealt bad cards. That's what most doctors do. I think there's some money behind that, but we can talk about that later. For me, like with my nursing background, I needed to understand why this happened to me because it didn't make any sense. It can occur if you go through like a traumatic birth. You have a baby where they get stuck and they have to go in there and really tear some things and get the baby out or forceps delivery. But my births were quick and not complicated and everything went really great.

So it just wasn't making sense to me. And I began doing a lot of research and connective tissue disorders kept coming up. And I read about Ehlers-Danlos and the diagnostic criteria, did the assessments on myself and was like, wow, I'm pretty sure I have this thing. Asked my doctor about it and was sent to a geneticist. And then I was diagnosed and had just learned a tremendous amount about it. And surprisingly, the medical community addresses this population with a very kind of fearful mindset, tells these people to be very careful.

You're very fragile. Don't lift weights, which to me, common sense. If your joints are loose, what else can you use to support your joints? Your muscles, right? So get strong as shit and then you're not going to have as many issues. Powerlifters are like, yeah! Well, I knew that. I mean, I knew I got into weightlifting originally because I felt better. I stopped having so much joint pain. And so to me, it was a very common sense thing. So I didn't listen to them. And so to me, it was a very common sense thing. So I didn't listen to them. And when you were diagnosed, they told you the same thing

and you went and PR'd your deadlift. Yeah, he's like, you should never deadlift again. I've had so many doctors tell me, you're never going to squat again. You're never going to travel without a back brace, lumbar support. Because of your disc herniation stuff? Yeah, I had a 10-millimeter disc herniation. And yeah, he told me, never deadlift again. I'm like, fuck you.

I've been through this already. So I went and PR'd my deadlift, which for you told me never deadlift again. I'm like, fuck you. I've been through this already. So I went and PR'd my deadlift, which for you guys is low, 455. That's a little good deadlift. That's a good deadlift. You could deadlift a lot more than 455. Yeah, I think I get in my own way when it comes to that. There is a little bit of like anxiety when it comes to like heavier loads just just having so many positions that my body can be in that once i surpass that that threshold things just completely fall apart and it's not that i'll necessarily get injured

it's the thought that i could in that instance at that really high load so i progress very slowly i'm still confident in those higher ranges, but it takes me a lot longer, I think, because I'm in my own way. Do you practice deadlifting often anymore? Yeah. I still get close to that number on a monthly basis. Yeah. This is something interesting, though.

The ability for both your bodies to be able to articulate and do certain things, interesting though like you the ability for both your bodies to be able to articulate and do certain things um i can see why you want to be careful with trying to progress super heavy loads because i mean even though you are super aware now what your body's doing there's still probably certain segments that have the ability to move without you actually wanting them to move and load like i picture you if you have a slightly rounded back on a deadlift, something could because you have the ability to move, just displace, right? Yeah. You are a bit more prone to dislocations, subluxations, tears of, you know, meniscus,

ligament tears, things like that. Also, this is something that I'm curious about. As far as Ehlers-Danlos is concerned, because not everybody is even doing physical things where they know that they have some type of issue like this, connected tissue issue. But how many people do you think or what percentage of the population do you think actually deals with this? Because you see so many people that do yoga and all these types of things because they're drawn to it. Yes. But I think it's probably more than you'd suspect. Yeah, it's referred to as rare, but it's estimated that about 20 percent of the population is hypermobile.

So there's really a spectrum between something called joint hypermobility syndrome or even just benign joint hypermobility, meaning that someone's hypermobile, but they don't have a bunch of other issues. And then on the other end of the spectrum is EDS, which is the more extreme version. And there's actually 13 types of EDS. But you're absolutely right that a lot of times people who are yogis, ballet, you know, they're drawn to those things because they have a natural tendency. Like they're good at it. They can achieve those movements a lot easier than someone who has to train and work really hard to get into those positions. How did you guys meet? I purchased Andrew's program at his old company.

Oh, yeah, you did. And I was a member. It was after I had had a six-hour pelvic reconstructive surgery. I was super into movement, saw this goofy guy on Instagram. Bought his program. Goofy? And then – I think he's handsome. I started challenging him a little bit on some stuff and we had some really great conversations.

And I started working with him and – So I think your program is bullshit and the rest is history. Yeah. And I've learned a lot because of that. She came in and we used to teach to like tuck their pelvis posteriorly and like you know every movement and she's like no um so she challenged me on like the different pelvic positions how the pelvic floor being stacked with the diaphragm the rib cage and all that shit was linked together and just learning a lot more and we we continue to challenge each other on different aspects and just have some healthy conversations about movement.

We're not – I'd say that like Cameron can attest to that over there. Just any idea that we have, we have like healthy conversations. We play devil's advocate all the time. He was doing that to me yesterday. He was Graham-tuttling me. He's the question master. I like that though. Yeah, it's great. I enjoy that.

I enjoy going back and forth with people, especially when they're questioning ideas that you have. You're like, oh, this is the way to stretch the hamstring. Is it? Yeah, right? Is it for what? What's the goal? What are you trying to do with that? Because I think a lot of times, back to talking about the lower back, if we focus in on lower

back pain, then we're missing the whole thing. We're missing everything. There's some sort of dysfunction in the body and the pain is registering. Your body believes that it's connected to the lower back. It may or may not be, but as anyone that's ever helped anybody understands, there's really, as much as there is to the lower back back there's not much to be able to work on from the outside or at least it's quite difficult to find and to get to so usually you work the glutes the hips the hammies right and you might have to kind of like go all the way down into the foot the shoes like you might have to really research the whole body you understand

and that's where a lot of people like we don't sell any programs that are specific body parts we sell two programs both of them go through the entire body so head to toe it doesn't matter what you come in for you're going to work on the entire body and there's a there's several reasons you'd want to do that obviously things are literally connected together but neurologically you've got something called neural sensitization where if you have pain in the area of your body say the the shoulder because it's in the camera if you have pain in the shoulder and it's really a chronic issue for you a little bit more right here you can get the front of it right there in the shoulder um you're actually you're going to dwell on it you're actually going to train your nervous system to become hyper vigilant or hyper aware of the pain so then it's everything you do and think of

it's going to hurt. Even though those pain signals may be, they're not necessarily pain signals. They're, they're being hyper, oh my gosh, losing my words there.

Yeah, you like, you turn up the volume. It turns up the volume, you got it. Yeah, you wince or make a weird face even before you did anything.

Like your alarm system in your house, you're just cranking everything on. You've got it on like hyper aware. So, you know, a cat walks across the street, your alarm goes off, camera caught it. That's essentially what your neural sensitization is going to do. So when you work on other areas of the body, it forces your brain to focus on other areas, forces your nervous system to focus elsewhere.

So then that can actually desensitize the area that is in pain. So multiple reasons that you'd want to work on the entire body. And, of course, we also talk about getting into the mindset aspects and nutrition and sleep and all the other things that could be contributing to it as well as stressors. I mean stress and anxiety is one of the biggest causes of pain. I'm sure that at some point if you've ever had a really stressful event, suddenly something hurts a lot at the same time. And that's the case with a lot at the same time and that's the case with a lot of our members they're like i just suddenly my shit is just it's so bad again and they're like i'm doing all these movements and it's just not getting better i'm

like okay well what's going on in your life they're like well i just lost my job like well and that's that's almost um i mean we can pick that apart every time when someone says something like that you're like yep there's another piece to that. And it's like I just broke up with my girlfriend or I just started a new job or something like that. What's it like creating this content together? It's fun. I don't know. We just joke around, have a good time with it.

We do challenge each other a lot. I think when you're making content for social media and – Start to argue a bit or is it like pretty chill? We really don't argue. Like we have conversations. Some days I don't want to make content. Some days she doesn't want to make content. We need to do this.

It's just like fuck. Sometimes one of us will come up with an idea and the other one will be like, that's dumb. And then sometimes we do the the dumb thing and it just blows up so um people ask you guys like relationship questions like because you know working together and having a business together is pretty cool thing yeah we're around each other all day every day and it's i mean yeah like since covid and working at home we've just been together all the time but yeah we get along really well.

I don't know. But we both, I think the thing is we both appreciate being challenged. And I think that we do it to each other in a way that feels very safe. Like both of us are very comfortable being very vulnerable and are open to that challenging.

No, we don't do that. Why not? I'm joking. I mean, it can be fun. Don't get me wrong. There's a time and a place. very vulnerable and are open to that challenging no we don't do that like why not like you know how I'm joking I mean it can be fun don't get me wrong there's a time and a place we do it

it's just like you know being able to bring up something you know how you left the bathroom like smelling like absolute ass there's poopery

for a reason maybe you go to a different bathroom or you're like that wasn't me those are the kids where do you guys get the like painting stuff, or what is that? Yeah, that's dope.

That's pretty fucking cool. We have an incredible biomedical illustrator. She's been doing this for decades. I think she could be my mom. Alex Weber? Yeah, her name's Alex Weber. And she does the paintings each time on us. They take anywhere from an hour to like

six hours for some of the really intricate ones. But everything she paints is like perfect anatomy. It looks so cool. She's painting on something or just paints on his body? Just paints on the body. So we just prep the skin a little bit. So she palpates where the muscles are. She

pushes on my skin, figures out where the attachment points are. So it's representative of what's in my body. It's not necessarily perfect because some muscles are much deeper than others. So obviously you're painting around the outside. So sometimes it doesn't necessarily make sense, but it gives you a good idea of what's going on in there. Yeah, that's really dope. Now I want to kind of rewind a little bit to the pelvic floor because we've had individuals come on the podcast and talk about it a bit. But I think you guys have both.

You guys have a wealth of information. Where is this pelvic floor? Where is it? Right. But, you know, why is it important for athletes and literally just the general population to understand what's going on with the muscles in that area? And how can they start figuring that out? What's the best way to pay attention to your pelvic floor? Yeah. I mean, so starting with what it is, it's a group of muscles in your pelvis. It supports all of your abdominal and pelvic organs.

It is what allows anything to come in and out. So you think about like for women, things going in, tampons, if you like to have sex or toys or whatever, things coming out when you go to the bathroom, when you have babies, like that is all controlled by your pelvic floor muscles. Your pelvic floor muscles work along with your diaphragm and your breath to create stability and give your core strength and the ability to move and be dynamic. It plays a role in performance and strength, sexual health. If anyone enjoys having orgasms, you can thank your pelvic floor. Continence, you know, so it's a really important part of your body and it's just a group of muscles like any other muscles, but it's become, you know, it's kind of has this more taboo thing where people don't really talk about it. In my opinion, I think that at least for women, every woman when you go for your first pelvic

exam should be educated on your pelvic floor or be sent to see a pelvic floor physical therapist, which a lot of people don't even know is a thing. But it's a physical therapist who specializes in that area of the body. I've done that. They go palpate around? Yeah, they go palpate around, get some massages in there. It's really intense. Yeah. I mean it's a Palpate around. Yeah, they go palpate around, get some massages in there. It's really intense. Yeah.

It's, I mean, it's a, it's a big deal for men and women. Obviously for women, it's a bit easier to access. They go in gradually. I don't know if you guys know, but women have another hole. So there's a lot more options for things to just kind of come out. Okay. Well, real quick. Let's talk about how many holes are down there real quick.

So there's the anus. I think we tried to figure this out before and we came up flat okay yes there's an anus there's the vagina there's the pee hole where they pee right urethra urethra urethra yep what else we got that's it that's it okay three for women where's the other two for men i thought you said one more no i said no no oh that's it i thought there was a mystery you're good you got it 100 women said one more. No, I said no. Oh, that's it. I thought there was a mystery. You're good. You got it. 100%. Women have one more. Women have one more.

Than men. I thought there was like one more on top of it. Yeah, I was like, is there a new hole? Like a new planet? I thought he figured out something. Yeah, I thought he was going to unload something new. Me too. I was like, wait, what's this?

I was getting excited. All right. I'm sorry to sidetrack. Me too. I was like, wait. What's this? I was getting excited. All right. Sorry to sidetrack. No, no, no. It's fine. Andy, I got to show you something. So pelvic floor issues can impact both men and women. Obviously, it's a little bit – it's a bit more prevalent for women because we have babies.

Yeah. And when babies are born, that innately is a bit traumatic to your pelvic floor. I mean, if you birthed a bowling ball out of your shoulder, your shoulder muscles are going to be impacted, right? That's going to be a little bit traumatic to them. So it's not uncommon for women postpartum to have some dysfunction. Sometimes it can sort out itself, really. A lot of times visiting a pelvic floor PT can be helpful. And sometimes women historically have just kind of been told like, oh, this is just kind of the joys of being a mom. It's just part of being a parent. Like you don't jump on trampolines anymore because you pee when you jump.

That's just part of the deal, which is absolutely bullshit. It doesn't have to be like that and it shouldn't be like that. Other countries don't do that. Yeah, some countries. Some countries are also pretty crappy. But there are some countries who every woman has someone come to their house postpartum and work with them because they feel that it's very important not only for the woman and her physical health but for the health of her relationship and her marriage. So that when she's able to resume having sex, it's enjoyable and not painful. And, you know,

it's just good for the health of the whole family. How does the area get like worked on? Like someone has to go inside or? So there's a lot that you can do without going inside, but that is the gold standard. The best thing is to, you know, if you have a therapist who understands the area, they do internal work, palpation of the muscles. They can have you do a Kegel, which is just a contraction of those muscles, and they're able to gauge whether you're doing it strong, strong enough, whether you're able to fully relax after you engage, which is actually a really common issue, especially with athletic women.

And they're able to feel the different areas. So it's kind of like a clock. So they can tell maybe you're contracting really well on the back but not on the front or maybe your right side is great but your left side's like not quite working right and a lot of times there will be correlations with you know hip pain as well or stuff like constipation um lower back pain like you can experience pain in various parts of the body so people are like i have lower back pain. It feels like really deep. Like it's not necessarily in the back, like where the spine is or the QLs and the muscle, but it feels like deeper than that. Then we'll be like, well, maybe you need to do some work on the pelvic floor or the hip because the hip is intimately related with pelvic floor, all the rotations.

So if you're never doing any hip rotation, that can contribute to pelvic floor. Can you do any of this stuff yourself? Yes, you definitely can. And, you know, if you're opposed to the internal work, like for men, you can do it rectally. If a man is opposed to that, there's still a lot of stuff you can do without getting inside there.

But yeah, absolutely. They also sell devices, like things like a TheraWand is like one brand of it. So it's actually a wand and it's kind of S-shaped. It's like that massage stick. Yeah, it's kind of like that hook massage. is like one brand of it. So it's actually a wand and it's kind of S-shaped. It's like that massage stick. Yeah, it's kind of like that hook massage. Like a mini. Yeah.

And so you can actually do your own. Like I have one in the shower. I use it regularly. You can do a lot of your own. It's really no different than like a foam roller. You have a Thera? TheraWand. I just have it in the shower.

Oh, okay. And then I just use it. It's like maintenance. It's like you think about, oh, I roll out my quads every once in a while and they feel kind of tight it's like that like i just use it when i feel like i need to i would i would assume to like because because people sit so much now you always hear people say i can't activate my glutes that makes it even worse for pelvic floor health of most people right yeah what can happen with that is like people if they don't have really well developed glutes the pelvic floor muscles can actually people, right? Yeah. What can happen with that is like people, if they don't have really well-developed glutes, the pelvic floor muscles can actually take over to create some stability.

Really? So then you have these muscles that are kind of tight and locked. And if you think about like if you're doing a bicep curl but you're already like this, like how good of a curl are you going to get if you're stuck in this position? So learning to relax and lengthen those muscles and then strengthen them results in just a lot better use overall and strength overall. That's where the P comes in because like if you're already lifting a heavy load or you're doing a lot of repetitions and it's just locked down, you're clenching it. Like you're activating that thing. Then eventually it's going to fatigue and you don't have any control of it.

It's just done. So then it opens up and then you're pissing yourself. I tried it in CrossFit. He did a great experiment with that. I did CrossFit for several years. And I was like, it was like a long 40-minute workout, heavy shit, running, all this stuff. And I'm like, I'm going to contract my pelvic floor the whole time. And I did.

And I had to go piss like halfway through. And I'm like, I'm going to keep working out. And I went to the bathroom. There was nothing there. It had already gone down my legs. I had no idea. Whoa. I was like super sweaty already had

no clue wait wow you peed yourself you didn't realize you pissed yourself i had no idea you know i think uh working out you know dude i you know it was like i was in san diego at the time super sweaty and kettlebell swings and like olympic lifting and stuff like that it's like just so much movement and just sweaty you have no Wow. I think a lot of times they'll recommend like the Kegels and stuff like that. You don't like forcefully like flex like 100 percent, right? Like because I think some people that have trouble with going to the bathroom or they can't hold it, they accidentally pee a little bit before they go type of thing. I only pee a little bit before they go type of thing. I think I've heard some people kind of say like people will clench down way too hard and you should be able just to clench down very mildly and actually hold it for a little bit.

Yeah, there's a lot of degrees of contracting. But the most important thing is that you're able to fully relax in between those contractions. Yeah, and that – I mean when it comes to even orgasms, that's a contraction of those muscles. So the better you are at being able to relax them, the stronger they can contract. So the intensity can go up. So another incentive.

I have a question about that. So you know how like, I don't know what percentage of women say that they don't have or they're not – they don't generally have orgasms during intercourse. That could probably – there's a two-factor issue there. There's like maybe something men aren't doing, women too. But how much of that do you think can be attributed to potential pelvic floor weakness or lack of understanding of those muscles in that area? How can that help potentially? I mean it can definitely help.

I mean, just strengthening them and being able to relax them and just being in touch with them. It's surprising the number of people, men or women, who are like, my what now? My pelvic what? And they don't know how to do even a contraction or they think they're doing a contraction, but they're actually just bearing down.

So, yeah, I mean, it's absolutely going to help. That's kind of a loaded question because I feel like there's a lot of, like, emotional stuff. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of things. Foreplay is key there. Yep. There's a lot of stuff there.

I was just curious about that, but okay. It's definitely not going to hurt the situation. Yeah. And for guys, too, you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. Can help with premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction. There we mentioned. Yeah. Can help with premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction.

There we go. Hey, anything to make stuff better. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think a lot of times people don't want to investigate things because I think they know that it's going to be like a tough road. I think people are pretty intuitive and I think they're right.

It does take time to fix whatever issue that you have, and you're looking for the quick fix. You're looking for the Theragun type of thing. That's going to be the quick, easy thing. But unfortunately, the first thing that you try very rarely ever works. It might work in the long run. It might work in conjunction with five or six other things, but you got to keep kind of looking around. Maybe you got to search through different people. Maybe you have to read different articles or like it takes a lot. It takes a lot of time. It's a big effort to try to

quote unquote fix like whatever it is that you're trying to fix. Yeah. And I think it's really difficult for people because you can just go to Amazon and purchase things that you want that can fix, you know, something in your house. And it's like, why can't I do that with my body? Uh, I can entertain myself quickly watching Netflix and why can't I do that with my body? So people just have to realize that making any change with your body is going or your mind is going to take a lot of work. Quick cue again. What is the name of that, that thing you have in the shower? What's the brand name? The brand name of mine is Therawand. Therawand. Okay. I'm going to grab that.

And men can use them also. Yeah. What were some of the injuries that you ended up having? Because we were talking about your mobility and I was kind of shocked that you mentioned you got hurt pretty bad a couple times. Yeah. So I've had literally everything from head up. So plantar fasciitis. I have a heel spur.

Achilles issues. Meniscus in my knee. Anything like during a sport? Moral, acetabular, CrossFit. Okay. My disc injury happened from bodybuilding before I started CrossFit. And that was the most substantial injury that I had. It was 10 millimeter, which is, you know, it's okay. It's not that big, but it was substantial enough for me to have sciatica down both legs. I had that for

two years. I stopped working out. I think I was like 225 at the time and I got down to 185 during that two-year period. And, you know, my doctors at the time they were like you need to have surgery and i i didn't want to do that you know i've i've had a bunch of patients that have had surgery and they keep having more surgeries uh people in my family have had surgeries and they've had six seven surgeries and they're still in chronic pain i'm like that's that's not the answer um you know i've seen too many people just suffering post-surgery so i was like i'm to take the long route, that hard work you were just talking about. Like I don't know what the work is going to look like, but it's not going to be surgery. And, you know, I was given a lot of different pills, a lot of medications.

You know, there was like a four-month period of my life in the beginning there that I just don't fucking remember. I was working with patients, driving around. I don't have a clue what happened during that period of time. i just threw those away i went through like a thousand ibuprofen during that time too so i'm sure my organs were happy and um i tossed that stuff aside and i ended up getting an epidural it worked for like a week i was like 100 pain-free and then just all came back yeah and uh just slowly worked through my movements and like you know for those of you that know me or seen me do some some goofy goofy shit with my body jeez that's gap control um you know all of that stuff as a result of the injuries that i've and that i've had like i had to just

figure out what my body could do and what felt good and then start to slowly apply that to um different movements i need to do a shout out to my previous, my first CrossFit coach, Mike Koopman. He came into the clinic. He's like, wait, you're messed up. Like you're struggling. And he's like, you need to come to my CrossFit gym. Like, what are you talking about? CrossFit hurts people.

And he's like, not my gym. And I went there and he started me with like floor-based exercises, some assessments. I did his stuff. And like he really taught me me how to find my neutral positioning and bracing and breath work. And that made a massive difference for me. He doesn't coach anymore. But I learned a lot from that man. How old were you when you had this herniation? I was 23.

Yeah, that's really young. And how did it happen, by the way? herniation. I was 23. Yeah, that's really young. And how did it happen by the way? I could say it was like the cough that I had which would be like the straw that broke the camel's back but it was just faulty movement

patterns before that. I got sick. It was finals for my college. Studying for finals, laying in bed like up against the wall and just had a chest cold and coughed and just felt a pop. A few months later, I helped move my mom out of her house. And like the next day I just had crazy sciatica. And that was, that was the point that I went to the doctor and they're like, you've got

a herniation. Did you get depressed? Uh, yeah, definitely. That's fucking sucks. It was, especially when they're like, oh, this is just your first one. Oh, you're going to have more. And you're going to live with a brace for the rest of your life. You're going to have this.

And you're going to need to do these five exercises on this really shitty printout. And I did those exercises religiously. They worked negligibly. And it was a long, long process. And there were a lot of dark times, having trouble going to the bathroom, not having any sex. Relationships are screwed up. You just stop going out and being with people and being with friends and going to activities. You're just like, I'm going to sit at home.

Yeah. What made it better? It was just focusing on the little, little, little tiny improvements. Like, oh, shit, I can put my sock on today. I can walk to the mailbox and back. Like those little gains were the things that I focused on because people, they, they get caught up in like, I want to be able to lift 300 pounds. I want to be able to run a marathon.

I want to go hike this mountain. And the fact that they're not doing that today really pisses them off and they get in a really dark place. But I was starting to relish in like the excitement of just being able to do the basic life shit. Like I can go take a shit without it hurting right now. This is fire. And those things add up. And when you focus on those little wins, you end up getting to your ultimate goal.

At the same time, you, number one, you never had surgery, but you were doing stuff like body weight work every single day to deal with that issue over time and how long it took you see two years two years before that sciatica was like finally gone and then i was like starting to lift and you know i worked with that crossfit coach taught me a lot about lifting and that's how i got involved in like more optimal movement patterns um you know some crossfit gy great. Some, I've been in them. They're not that great. It's just how it is with everything.

What do you think now of the diagnosis of your back and the recommendation of surgery? I kind of have this vision that if we were to do an MRI or x-ray of most people's backs, we can be like, and if you came to me with an issue

and I was the one, you know, I was the doctor, it would be easy for both of us to blame and agree and circle the thing and be like, here's where you're at. There's this fucking chart, this like pain thing, and you're at a nine and this is our enemy. Like this is the thing that's bothering you. So if we fuse your spine together, you're going to be good to go.

Yeah, we were talking to Andrew before the podcast and it's like, you know, he's had some disc issues and I believe he's talked about that here or I just broke the news. No, no, no. Confidential information. What the fuck, dude? Andrew, calm down, bro.

But just talking about those incidental findings, like you could do an MRI of someone's entire body and you're going to find all kinds of rips and tears and degeneration and arthritis and all this stuff and all this scary sounding words, even though they didn't have any pain in the area. You could go x-ray or MRI every elbow in this room and find that there's probably some shit in there, even though, I don't know if anyone has pain, but even though none of us have pain in the elbow. And that's where you go there for back pain. There's a million reasons you could have it. And they're like, aha. And they do exactly what you said. They circle this thing. That's probably the cause of it. And the thing is, all it does is scare you. And then you're like, you need to not do this, this, this, this. You need to be careful doing these things. And you need to not lift more than 10 pounds and then you find yourself getting even weaker as a result of the recommendations and things start to snowball and get even worse and um you know we teach people just be like fuck that yeah you know

you've got to get a more positive mindset and you have to move like movement is is healing have you guys either one of you run into somebody where it was like they just need surgery yeah i mean they literally just need it there's a few there's a few there's a few symptoms that are like red flags for like no you you need surgery um and you know we don't ever tell people to not listen to their doctor, but we will educate them on the fact that, you know, imaging isn't always necessarily correlating with your pain and stuff like that. But, again, there are those red flags. And, you know, surgery, there are instances where someone absolutely needs a decompression surgery or something done to save their function. But that's pretty rare.

Or like post-trauma. You just fell off a four-story. Or like post trauma, you just fell off a forest. Yeah. Like if you just got in a car accident, go. Yeah. But if it's like a chronic issue, you've had it for years and they're like, you need to have this surgery. It's like, at this point, there's more going on than just a physical issue. There's, there's the neurological and the mindset aspects, lifestyle things. There's a lot going on there. For the red flags, if you're losing control of limbs, you have some severe numbness and tingling, you're not able

to control your bladder at all or your bowels, you've lost sexual function, those are signs that you'll want to get evaluated. What you got cooking over there, Andrew? We were talking about this stuff before the podcast. When it comes to the mindset thing, how much of that is a part of your program

a pretty significant portion i mean it's sprinkled in there so we don't hit people like you know really hard with the mindset work separately it's a big part of our community we do ongoing coaching calls um just like we talked about earlier how we like to challenge each other we do that with our members a lot um sometimes i think it's a little bit uncomfortable for people not everyone necessarily invites or welcomes um being challenged like that but you know it's it's just part of part of the healing process and getting people to start focusing on those little 1% improvements. And it looks a little bit different for different people. For some people, it's like

they need to really tune in and improve their body awareness. And for some people, it's like you need to quit thinking about it all the time. Like you maybe need to give yourself a week and just say, I'm not even going to think about my positioning or my back pain. I'm just going to not worry about it for a week and just take a break. Yeah. And I think, you know, we, in our like programs, we have might have like some basic mindset things, but it's really the community where we'll do the one-on-one work. Cause we can watch out what people say, how they talk about their pain. We can just like nitpick each of those things. Like these are the words you're using. Like let's shift the language in, in, in this, uh, communication and like, um,

maybe the negativity around doing program or like doing it. Like you have the opportunity to do this right now. Not that I have to do it right now. Um, yeah, different, different things like that. Yeah. So actually for both of you guys, how has your perception of the pain that you feel or the, and when injuries happen, how's your, the way you look at that and your perception of it changed over the years to become more positive? I mean, for me, looking back at all the public floor issues I had, they're very significant. At the time, it was very tough for me. It was hard for me to talk about. I was embarrassed to talk about it. Felt very like shameful for me.

And now I look back at it and I'm so grateful for that because it led me to educating myself, you know, on movement and ultimately to do this as a profession. Yeah. Which is far more fulfilling and meaningful in my opinion than what I was doing as a nurse. And you found this handsome stud. And I found this handsome stud. And I found this handsome stud. Not bad. So I think, you know, any time that we're faced with something challenging, we've been through some pretty challenging things together the last few years. And we have the ability now to appreciate the challenge and the growth that comes as

a result of that. And sometimes even when you're in it and you're like, this fucking sucks, but I know it's going to be good for me. And, you know, you can just cling to that knowing that you're going to come out the other side with knowledge that you didn't have and experience and, you know, you're going to be stronger as a result. And that's it. So a few months ago, like the beginning of June, I actually like strained the shit out of my lower back and like sent me down pretty hard like multiple spasms stuff like that it was the first time I'd injured my my back in like what was that like seven or eight years almost nine years and um my first

thought was like I have a social media like I help people with pain like why I'm I'm not supposed to be this guy and I just immediately was like I need to share this so i started sharing it with people and like i was laid up like i was pissing in bottles on the bed and down there in the in the living room and like i could not move anything and um it was at the moment i just immediately adjust my expectations i was squatting almost 400 pounds the week prior. Now my goal is to sit up in bed. Like that's my new, and just completely eliminate like whatever other goals I had, it's just no longer on the table.

Let's focus on these little things. And like, I'm going to learn from this and I'm also going to share it and give people kind of the, I guess the exploratory and exciting aspects of this experience. Like, yeah, it sucks. It hurts a lot. But also, this is an opportunity for me to learn and grow and also teach.

And so, whenever something pops up, whether it be financial, business, lawsuits, whatever, it's all an opportunity to just learn and grow. Pat, Roger, family, how's it going? We talk about sleep all the time on this podcast. That's why we partnered with Eight Sleep Mattresses. Now, this mattress is the Tesla of sleep. It's the Tesla of beds. Its technology tracks your heart rate, your heart rate variability. It changes its own temperature based off the way you sleep so that you get better sleep every single night. It is quite literally insane. Check them out. Andrew, how do they get it? Yes. And before I do that, I wanted to let you guys know that you can actually set the bed to wake you up silently. I know that sounds weird,

but actually the bed starts vibrating around your head and it doesn't wake up the entire household the way my phone used to do back in the day. So now I just kind of have the bed wake me up silently and it's amazing. You guys got to head over to eight sleep.com slash power project. That's E I G H T sleep.com slash power project when you guys go there you'll see a banner across the top saying that you're going to receive 150 off automatically so again that's eight sleep.com slash power project to receive 150 off your pod pro cover or your pod pro cover and mattress combo links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes let's get back to the podcast i think I think this is funny because this is a common trend that's been happening on multiple podcasts that we've been doing. Individuals

talking about the perception of whether it's your progress in terms of your nutrition, your weight loss, your injury, et cetera. It's like the individuals who are able to take and pay attention to the small wins, overall, they end up really heading in the right direction but when you pay attention to everything that's literally going wrong or i kind of fucked up a little part of my diet today this thing doesn't work you will spiral into a negative situation but the mindset and the language aspect of it because it's not a specific movement or it's not a prescription i think most of us end up scoffing at that. But that's like that will affect everything and every action you take towards that destination.

It's crazy. I mean, it works too. We watch that shift from like focusing on the end goal to focusing on just like the daily goals of what you can achieve that day. Because every day is different. You might feel fucking awesome yesterday, and today you wake up and you're like, wow, I can barely squat right now. And it's just focusing on those little wins for that day.

They're going to add up. Yeah, we see that with people. We've had some people come in that have been just severely impacted by chronic pain to the point where once they're better, they've come back to us and said, I had tried everything, and I knew how I was going to kill myself

and this was my last chance and you guys saved my life. It's really emotional stuff when people do that. But we've seen people just have these incredible transformations and as soon as the person gets to the point where they're grateful for their pain, even if they're not out of it yet, if they can see and appreciate it we know they're fine we're like they're good they're like but up until they get to that point like when they're still stuck in the

kind of almost like victim mentality you know like why is this happening to me this is so hard this is like impacting my life in all these ways and when they can shift out of that a little bit and start to look at it you know we can't control what happens to us, but we can control how we respond to it. And when people kind of understand that there's just this shift that occurs and like, they'll be, they're going to be fine. Do you have to edit like the way that you talk to people just to make sure that you're not, cause like someone that comes to you in pain, they might not be super receptive to, you know, let's say my knee hurts. And you guys are like, well, you know, you got to try to relax and calm down.

But like you don't even know me yet. So like how do you start to have conversation? And do you guys try to have like bedside manner or do you just give it to them like straight? We have two different kind of approaches, multiple I guess. Really, you can kind of tell just based on how the person's talking to you what kind of approach they need. So I usually start on the softer side, but there's some people I just give it to. I'm like, fuck you.

And, you know, it's just like really hard. Just like everyone needs it a little bit differently. They need to stop being a bitch, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And some people really respond to that and others don't. They need that softer approach and katie's better at that than i am there's a little like good cop bad cop sometimes but i i prefer typing things out because i can like really get the message clean sometimes i just need to yell at someone on the camera and send it to them but sometimes you do have to do that like sometimes people need to hear the shit that they don't want

to hear even if it pisses them off a lot of times they're going to come back later and be grateful for it. And I think that that's another one of the big issues with healthcare. Like what we do, there are no patient satisfaction scores. Like someone might leave a bad review, but like that's as bad as it gets. And the healthcare system is so reliant on patient satisfaction that a lot of times doctors aren't telling people the shit that they need to hear because they don't want to make them mad because they need them to, you know, leave good scores for their bedside manner. And it's like, at the end of the day, the bedside manner is not what is going to change your life.

It's like hearing that if you don't stop smoking and eating like shit, you're going to kill yourself. People don't want to hear that. That's upsetting. But sometimes they need to hear that. Is this kind of going to your conspiracy about the healthcare system? Conspiracy. Or not conspiracy, but your thoughts on how to actually do things.

You talked about this before. I've worked in clinics and I've seen the tactics. I'm not too familiar on the hospital setting. Katie would be more familiar with that. But in the PT, chiroro whatever settings like people come in they're like they do your x-ray mri and they show it to the patient this is the worst spine i've ever seen you're gonna need to come to me for 45 visits a week and um yeah you know just like the fear tactics that are involved with that like no this no, this actually isn't the worst.

Fine. And it could look absolutely mangled and fucked up, but you're going to be fine. Let's work on this together. And it's kind of using the language. And I don't think that practitioners do this on purpose necessarily. They've noticed that you're going to get more sales talking like this. You're going to get more buy-in. There's definitely some buy-in with fear. So, and that's not how you guys actually talk about things when you

show things on your social. I think you guys are very aware of that. You don't market based off of fear. Yeah. I mean, we, we used to run a larger page with a bigger following and anytime you have, you know, a million people watching what you're saying, what you're putting in your text, you're getting scrutinized every single day. And I know some people don't read their comments or they just block people that are negative. And we really took the opportunity to say, if we've heard the same negative feedback,

it's probably something we need to pay attention to. We probably need to educate ourselves and make some changes in some of our delivery or some of our – so I would say we've evolved a lot over the years. There is a tough thing though because when it does come to like building better habits, becoming healthier, trying to drop some body fat, sometimes it does seem that you need to scare people about the outcomes if they don't start making a change.

Like fear-based marketing, a lot of times it's bad, but especially on social, it seems that it's sometimes necessary if you're in this type of space. Because for some people, if you don't scare them about what their habits are doing in the long run, they won't make that change. At least the scaring will give them that trigger. Maybe there's a better overall way but sometimes it's necessary i think people always think they have more time you know i saw that as a nurse a lot people always think like i know i should be a little bit better with that but like i'm only 40 i got another i got a long time to figure that out you know and then all of a sudden

you wake up and you're 60 and you have heart disease and death is staring you in the face and you have so much regret. And I saw that over and over with patients. That's actually how we named our company Wealth. It was like your health is your wealth because I had so many people who had so many regrets when they were facing death, just wishing, I wish I had been healthier. I wish I had gotten into fitness when I was younger. I wish I had taken care of my body. You never hear people say, I wish I had a bigger house, a new car, more money. I wish I had done this thing about my job.

Like it's always about relationships and family and health. And that's the stuff that you can't buy. It doesn't matter how much money you have, you know? And so, yeah, I think sometimes you do have to just lay it out there for people like they do need to hear sometimes just the hard truth there's a lot of people that aren't even you know like some of this stuff's not even on their radar because they just don't exercise they don't really they don't really move a whole lot so none of this this show or what you guys do is really on their radar exactly but for a lot of people that do lift, a lot of people are in pain.

A lot of lifters are in pain, like power lifters, weight lifters, crossfitters. And unfortunately, we love doing what we do. So a lot of times you, it's all you know, it's part of your identity. I bench 405, I squat this way, and I'm going to go and do that every single week, even though every single week I'm going to be like, man, there's something weird in my knee and something's going on with my elbow and something's going on with my back. But you continue to deadlift and squat and bench. And are you guys basically with some of what you're putting out, are you trying to empower people with the ability to provide their own health care in a way like hey if you follow some of what we're talking about like there might be more to it than just us but if you follow some of what we're talking about you'll be able to fix a lot of these things that you're gonna run into

definitely we're huge proponents of just learning everything you can in the movement space so like you know you're a prime example of someone's just bringing a lot of people and learning from them and that's kind of the mentality that that the people kind of go through our program, they get. They're like, all right, I'm going to Pilates. I'm going to go power lift. I'm going to go do whatever movement thing, functional patterns, whatever it is for them. It just opens up some doors because we don't care what you do. You can do power lifting and feel some pain every day, and that's ultimately going to be better than heart disease or any other metabolic disease.

Like, you know, people get concerned about having some joint issues and stuff like that. But, you know, that's not necessarily going to kill you unless it stops you from moving altogether. Then you end up with metabolic disease. But, you know, we definitely just empower people. But we definitely just empower people. Like with Encima this morning, we were showing you all kinds of weird movements that just gets you to really dive inward and get – it's almost like meditative. You were sweating like crazy doing little shoulder movements. And being able to just have some control over every individual part of your body in whatever sport or hobby you want to do is very empowering.

And the goal is always to help people keep doing that thing that they love or return to it. If someone's injured to the, you know, degree that they're not able to lift, but that's what they want to get back to. Like, that's always the goal is to get you back to doing what you want to do. Like, we're going to be the last people to tell you to stop moving. Because we've been told that. We've been told not to do X, Y, Z thing. And that sucks.

Like, why, you know, if you love something, then let's work on getting you to do X, Y, Z thing. And that sucks. Like why, you know, if you love something, then let's work on getting you to do it. Maybe you won't do it to the same level, but you can do some of it. Or just scale it back a little bit. Get some education, tweak some things, you know, so that you can return to it. And a lot of times people go back

feeling better than they've ever felt or lifting heavier once they start putting some pieces together. Do you think traditional training is a little detrimental to a lot of people? I guess what is traditional training? Like just like broing out and being in the gym. Barbell?

Yeah, doing barbell stuff and, I don't know, bodybuilding, powerlifting, that kind of stuff. I don't think – I mean I think it's a gateway for a lot of people into being healthy. I mean I think you can take it too far too probably, you know, where it's maybe not healthy at that point. We've been to Dubai a couple times and they're like 30, 40 years behind the United States. Like they're all in the bodybuilder phase. They know nothing about CrossFit. It's 1987 in Dubai. They're like – they're all – everyone's like bodybuilding.

They see us. They see me doing like this weird, they're like, what is that? That's so cool. Like bodybuild. Yeah, yeah. And so they're really interested in like this new stuff that's kind of coming out from the U.S. It's been here for 20, 30 years. And so, yeah, I think bodybuilding is definitely a gateway. It's just very simple.

You're going to isolate a joint and do some movement. And, you know, then you might get interested in something else. Maybe you get bored with bodybuilding, move on. That's the thing is I think there's so many more options. Like when I was first – I know I'm older than you. But when I was first getting into it, it was like you had magazines and books and you go to the gym. Like there just wasn't a lot. I think it was like bodybuilding.com forums and like reading stuff.

Like there wasn't social media where you could just open it up and follow people and like do whatever they're doing. And now there's so many options to be like diverse in your movement. I don't think you have to like pick one thing and identify like I do Pilates or I do CrossFit. You can just do all kinds of stuff. I mean I mix bodybuilding, CrossFit, Pilates, bar, yoga, strongman. I mix all those things together in my training. It's never just like one avenue. I'm curious about something about you because when you were showing me some of the different things that you're able to do with your scap, for example, in bodybuilding, can you do the most muscular thing that we were – just like get that right and do that right.

So that's like the crab, most muscular poses and bodybuilding, but a lot of guys cannot actually articulate just like you did there. They're not able to do that. So they're like, I can't make this pose work, but it's because like, even I can't necessarily do that. But I was noticing as you were doing certain things, it's like, you would be amazing at posing and bodybuilding because you know how to make everything pop the way it should and there's another aspect to it where since you know how to control almost every aspect of your body you probably have a better ability to build muscle in certain areas because you can have an actual connection to that specific muscle group that you're trying to work yeah and i found that's the case like people they go through our program

they end up getting like really jacked because like our program is not going to make you jacked but the act of taking those techniques and applying it to whatever sport or hobby they get really shredded yeah it's a trip yeah your muscles are stacked or your body is stacked in some weird way then you're gonna put muscle on kind of like in one spot and not – it won't look aesthetic necessarily. So if you can work all the different positions and angles, then you're going to be more equal even throughout the body. But also like it's – people with certain bodybuilding movements, they're trying to get bigger. There are some guys who are like, oh, I can't feel my lat. I can't feel my hamstring here.

I can't feel this or that. But with what you guys are doing, it's going to allow people to – Do that. Exactly. They'll have proprioception of these different muscle groups in these different areas. Yep. And that's – we have – all the science nerds on the internet will be like, you know, the only way you can't feel a muscle contract is if you've had like your spine severed. And I'm like, guys, you can definitely have trouble contracting a certain muscle

even though it's not paralyzed. So yeah, we kind of help people do that even though sometimes we get ripped apart for that. I think it'd be a good idea for people listening, like if you are way into CrossFit or bodybuilding or powerlifting and you are in pain, just to start to,

just think outside that sport a little bit. You know, ifbuilding or powerlifting and you are in pain, just to start to just think outside that sport a little bit. You know, if you're, if you're powerlifting, maybe you should back off a pinch if your hip hurts a lot and maybe you should try some bodybuilding. If you're bodybuilding, maybe you should look at, and you got some injuries and things aren't feeling great. Maybe you should do some powerlifting, maybe lift a little lighter with some of the powerlifting movements or something. But I think people just kind of, they get caught in this kind of like merry-go-round of like just doing the same thing over and over. And they're in a lot of pain.

So I'd love for people just to like investigate it, just look into it, like just try some different shit. And that's what you've been doing. Yeah. If they're listening and they're still listening to these episodes, then they probably are a little bit i mean she took me to to bar which is like um ballet in a way i'm the only guy in there i've got i've got a 50 year old woman next to me who's absolutely destroying me yeah and uh it's just fun like holy shit but you're a dripping sweat you're like this

is harder than crossfit yeah that's fun's fun. You know, that actually, one thing, everybody, you guys need to go follow both of their pages along with Wealth because like I was seeing some of the stuff that you were doing with the monkey foot. I think both of you guys are doing certain movements with that and I was doing that yesterday. There's a lot of really cool things that you guys have been showing people that you can legit just go into the gym and do. So that's pretty fucking dope. But when it does come to both of the ways that you guys handle your personal fitness do you guys follow any structure you just kind of do shit that you're interested in it depends we've we'll go through phases of doing different things like we did crossfit for a while which is obviously programmed for us um thursdays are always kind

of like free movement day like listen to to your body. What does it need? Just pay attention to that. Most of the shit that pops up on my Instagram is me just playing. It's my play day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't know. I, I go through phases.

Um, I just kind of feel like I know what my body needs. Like there's just some periods where I feel like I need more Pilates and more bar and kind of more gentle movement. And then there's some phases where I feel like I need more Pilates and more bar and kind of more gentle movement. And then there's some phases where I feel like I need more strength work and we'll go down a, you know, series of lifting for a while, a bit heavier. And I just like to change it up a lot. I also kind of have some ADHD and I get fucking bored if it's the same thing all the time. I generally follow a pretty similar format each week. But each day, like Monday will be like a hinging, pulling day. So I might do a lot of deadlifting and pull-ups and stuff like that.

But I'm also going to have like some running in there and some farmer carries. And maybe I'll do some push-ups in there. So it's always like a full – every day is a full body day for me. That's kind of where that CrossFit mentality comes in. But I do have like a pretty large focus. So pulling on Monday and then I'll have like a lot of upper body work the next day and then like leg isolated movements the next day single leg work yeah then it's play day and then i do my squats and some more pushing and then uh like a metcon kind of day on saturday i rest on

sunday and along with that because there's quite a few coaches and trainers that listen in, obviously they can go check out the type of programs you guys mentioned. But, I mean, I know you guys mentioned FRC as something that's good. And if you can explain what that is. But what do you think are good places for people to actually educate themselves or you think it's really effective? Well, we've done a lot of things. But FRC was really fun.

I think just like we were talking about earlier, we can kind of gravitate toward things that are, our body's good at. I can get my body in some crazy ass positions. So FRC is really enticing to me because like I can get my hips into like these, these crazy motions, get my hips into some crazy positions and work on building strength in the end range positions in a full rotational capacity or, you know, like an end range isometric hold. Pails and rails, if anyone's curious about that. And that's really awesome. And Andre Ospina, I think he would be really fun to have on here.

Yeah. He's super duper nerdy. But we learned a lot from him. So that's cool. Yeah, I think just diversifying outside of – Especially for like a personal – Yeah, Pilates education really is great. Really?

It's incredible. It's, in my opinion, far superior to like yoga education. There's a lot more in-depth anatomy and physiology and biomechanics. And it just goes deeper, I would say. Um, but I think, you know, for trainers just diversifying, like whatever your thing is that you do all the time, do something different because it's going to make you look at your thing, whatever that is differently. Like you're going to apply, you know, principles of Pilates, even, even with like weightlifting or CrossFit or whatever.

Like there's always crossover in movement. I think the worst thing you can do is like get your, you know, weekend personal trainer certification and then stop and just think like you're good then and not continue learning. I don't think it necessarily matters what it is. Just always keep learning. really matters what it is. Just always keep, keep learning. What's some stuff that really surprised you guys that you weren't maybe expecting? Like, Oh, I didn't know, like just taking off your shoes, like would have such a big impact on people's knees. Or has there been some things like that that have been a pretty big deal that

you guys have seen where you're like, man, I just had no idea that was going to have such a big impact. Yes. I cannot like pinpoint a particular thing, but a lot of it for me has been more like mindset, like more of the pain. I've been more interested in pain education and mindset and stuff like that, like stoicism and stuff like that.

I'm a big proponent of that stuff, but hearing some of that stuff was really intense for me. Like, holy shit makes it makes a big difference why was it intense um here we go on the spot would it yeah would it have landed on you the same way when you had your severe back pain for two years exactly like i was listening to a lot of like stoicism while we were going through a lawsuit and it was like oh but you know this is okay you know like there's a lot to learn here. And like I would consider that similar to like my disc injury.

It was a very long, drawn-out process, very stressful. Life kind of was, you know, it was intense. Like your focus is very much on that thing. And just reading the stoicism book just made it okay. Like this is fine. This is an opportunity to grow and learn. I had to challenge my own ego. I shouldn't be going through this.

It's like, well, I'm going through this. That's how it is. That makes a big difference. As far as movement goes, though, I think FRC made a pretty big impact on me just because. What's that stand for? Functional range conditioning. That would be like

end range conditioning um not sure function he he even says like i don't like the word functional in it it's not functional everything everything is functional so um yes um so i think that was pretty big because for me i just have a lot of joint laxity and it made it not so lax. Yeah. The big takeaway from FRC for me was, you know, they talk about closing the gap between your active range of motion and your passive range of motion. So for someone who's hypermobile, that gap is pretty big. And so working on closing that and just building strength in this huge range of motion that you have and being able to control your limbs and your extremities in that range of motion, it made such a big difference. Like just in feeling stable and decreasing pain and just improving proprioception, like you just did a lot for –

Passive range would be something like putting your foot up on – This is active. Lift my arm higher. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. So there's my passive. Got it. Like closing the gap from there to there. I had a little bit of compensation with the shoulder there. But closing the gap between there to help kind of prevent injury.

Yeah, and just like kind of putting yourself in a position versus like you actually being able to activate the muscle to get into that position type thing, right? Yeah, sometimes you use an external thing to get you into a position. Like if I put my foot up on the table or something like that. But then you would activate to try and lift it off the table. Or drive your leg down into the table. And it would be too high for me to actively, I'd have to go on a lower thing. So you'd do that and then it would cramp like crazy.

It feels so good. Yeah, it feels hard. It's even challenging on something like the chair. Can you do that? Can you put your foot on this table and act? And then actively lift it. My hamstrings are so sore from this. Oh, yeah.

A little compensation. I'm leaning back. Okay. I'm not going to. My quad just lifted up. My rectus femoris just. Golly. You did it. It was awesome. You get credit for it.

It didn't work out. Was your knee bent? My knee was slightly bent. There was compensation. That's really dope. I was going to ask, how long are your guys' programs? Are they all the same length? Do you have shorter ones, long ones?

They're pretty much the same length. It really depends. It's self-paced, so it depends on how much time you dedicate. So for someone who does 20 minutes a day, it's going to take them a lot longer than the person who does 90 minutes a day. It also just kind of depends what your baseline is coming in and how much work you have to do. Cause you know, you need to allow your body time to adapt and strengthen too. Yeah. It's really encouraging when you guys were saying like, you don't want to take people away from what they love because I've worked

with a handful of people and it's always been like, wait, what do you do? And it's like, well, you know, I'm kind of in the gym all the time. It's like, you don't do that anymore. And it's like, well, fuck dude, I don't want to follow this program now because now it's like disheartening. Exactly. That's the stuff that keeps you alive every day. Like I'm looking forward to going and doing this. Like I want to run six program now because now it's disheartening. Exactly. That's the stuff that keeps you alive every day. I'm looking forward to going and doing this.

I want to run six miles a day. It's like, great, continue to do that and also let's work on this because that keeps you happy. If it's really impacting you and increasing pain tremendously, then scale it back a little bit maybe, but don't stop doing the thing that's going to wake you up each day. Makes sense, yeah. And you don't have to leave your network of people.

I think for so many people, whatever their gym is that they go to or if you're into movement, that's your social network. That's all your friends. That's all your people. You don't have to stop going there. Even if you do need to scale it back for a little bit, you can do the program exercises at that gym with those people. You'll look funny.

They'll make fun of you. They'll ask what you're doing, but it's fine. You don't have to give up. Isolating people and taking away the thing that sparks joy for them is the worst thing that you could do and expect someone to heal. And then the programs, are they for the gym or are they at-home stuff or both? It's designed to be at home or on travel. But you can definitely do it at the gym. Do it wherever.

Load it up if you want. Also, no no just so you guys you three walked in with vivos how long have you guys been using barefoot shoes and did you make a transition from something else or have you guys always been doing that yeah um 2016 for me we were like 15 15 or 14 yeah damn so it's been a minute okay yeah when they like

first started making shoes we met them a few times in person um Galahad Clark from the Clark family so they make Clark shoes and he's

it's kind of cool because he's just against his family's like legacy Clark's are nice too like I had Clark's when I was younger yeah uh he just went rogue and just you know he's like i do it i don't know i'm not gonna say that um that's private information he's he's cool dude um but you know both english funny dudes but yeah we've been

wearing them forever and it made a massive difference for me because I had Achilles pain. I had toe pain. I used to get ingrown toenails like every month. Really? That is incredibly painful because, you know, the toe box is tight and like my toes are squished together. And no matter how I cut the nail, I'd still get them. And just switching to a barefoot shoe, they just stopped. I've probably had one since 2013.

Yeah. And my foot size increased a whole size. Went from a 13 to a 14 in the last – since 2014. Mine went up a half size. And we hear that from people a lot, that once they're in barefoot shoes for a while, they size up because things just spread out. My feet have gotten wider. I don't know if they've gotten longer though, but they've gotten wider. It was crazy.

I just couldn't fit into 13 shoes anymore. Jesus. Maybe they changed their sizing maybe yeah but any brand like because we have these other barefoot shoe companies will send us stuff i just can't fit in their 13s like my toes are just pressed against the end so but it was a transition like for me anyway i was wearing the big cloud shoes i think i went i was in ultras at that point before I switched over to Vivo. But prior to that, it was, you know, Nikes and all this stuff. And then I bartended for a lot of years wearing heels. So I mean, that was a big change. Now I put heels on and I'm like, I look like a baby deer trying to like, I forgot how to walk in.

That's I'm curious to like, cause like we just started getting some barefoot shoes like last year, but have you noticed over the years, feet have gotten bigger how do you think that that plays up chain for people like what kind of difference would that make overall i mean it's huge if you have a little bit of a heel lift you're going to kind of glide your pelvis forward um it's going to change everything up the chain it's it's very simple especially the fact that like you're on squishy cushions like you're not really sure where your body weight is so having like a nice firm surface is going to give you some awesome feedback for you to shift your weight around um people often complain about like well you know i'm on concrete and asphalt and stuff like that i'm like cool like i used to have a lot of pain at like amusement

parks and concerts and stuff where you're standing all day long in like a cushioned shoe, barefoot shoes. I don't feel that anymore. And that was pretty wild for me because I was like concerned to wear barefoot shoes to those events. And I was surprised that nothing hurt. And everyone else is complaining. I think when people transition too rapidly, like people order their Vivos and they're like, these are great. I'm hardcore barefoot. And they switch and then like go out and run the next

day. Like me with Graham yesterday. Yeah, and then they're like, you know, everything hurts. My Achilles hurts. My calves hurt. Barefoot shoes aren't for me. It's like, no, no, no. Slow your roll. Just gradually start being barefoot in your house and then wear your Vivos one day and then go back to your cushy shoes for a day. And especially

in the hypermobile population, we've found that they need to just give their tissue more time to adapt and to strengthen. I mean, you're using a lot more muscles in your feet when you're in barefoot shoes versus the big squishy boxes that you go around in. What's the low hanging fruit for people? So we mentioned the foot. Seems like that's pretty easy. Maybe change some of your footwear. Maybe get out of your shoes when you can what are some other things like you guys are probably i'm imagining you guys are like kind of stretching and contorting yourselves probably like all over the place myofascial release like when you're watching tv or i don't i don't stretch i

don't massage things um i really focus a lot more on just strengthening through full range of motion um the low-hanging fruit for most people just be to go fucking walk after you eat dinner like go yeah go walk 10 to 20 minutes it's like the most basic thing you can do it's going to help your metabolism gonna help lose weight um awesome that's the most low-hanging people listening to this podcast probably don't necessarily need to do that. They're already lifting. They're doing stuff like that. It's great. I think the walking for sure and breathing. Like if you can just take five minutes a day and turn off all the external noise

and focus on just being present in your body and focusing on your breath. I mean, I can call it meditation if you want or whatever. It doesn't matter. But I think just – Me time. Yeah, just getting in tune with the breath. I think so many people – it's like one thing after another all day long and you have just like so many notifications and emails and phone calls and kid stuff. And it's just constant.

And then you lay down in bed and you're still on your phone and then you fall asleep and you wake up and you do it all over. And like people just don't take a little bit of time to just shut it all out and breathe. Put the damn phone down too. That helps. Yeah. You mentioned that the breathing stuff was like it's a part of the programs that you guys do. It's like you have people. They'll go into certain movements and then they'll breathe into certain spaces.

I know you can't talk about all of that. But like what are you having people try to tune into there? So what we really try to get people to do is to breathe 360. So it's like people talk about diaphragmatic breathing through the belly versus the chest. We're looking to get the ribs to expand and the lower back to expand to the sides and backward, um, just to maximize that lung capacity and tension and if you're you know that's where bringing the whole body into the alignment is where all right i'm going to work on my pelvic positioning and my thoracic positioning those being stacked is going

to really help create more tension when you have that breath in yeah and then the shoulder blades that we were working with before the the call like being able to protract those around the body, breathe backward into that and to the sides. Just you're maximizing your lung capacity and tension. Oh, good. No, it's great. I mean, it's really, really important for a lot of people. And it takes a lot of time because there's a lot of joints there. There's a lot of tissue back there.

Yeah. And it can take months or years to really start to get that expansion and like mark was mentioning when it comes to gym stuff and cam was also talking about this in the gym when it comes to movements in the gym there's a lot of retraction there's a there's a lot of that but you're not in many positions where you will actually allow yourself to get into those ranges so when a lifter comes into your program do you generally notice a lot of tightness in the upper back area? I mean, lifter or not, yeah. Like, you know, people are just kind of sitting around in the same positions all the time.

And then lifters are sitting around the same positions and going adding muscle on top of that. So it can definitely kind of compound. But as far as the retraction, like all that's fine. I think we've been cued for a long time. Like down and back is where your shoulders should be. We teach people a down and forward, a protraction and an upward rotation of the shoulder blades. It's a little nerdy. Um,

and just being able to splay the shoulder blades around the rib cage, um, helps you create a lot of tension, but also being able to go the opposite direction. Like we talked about earlier, getting into whatever that's called. And, uh,

most muscular, I guess most muscular so just exploring all the different ranges like can you get a full exhale and a full inhale can you get the the blades fully forward and back posterior and anterior tilt same thing with the rib cage and you're also like you were showing us how you can you have the ability to just focus on moving your tib without your knee moving. I don't know if I can show that here. It's a little high. It's a little high. But your tib can just – you can rotate that thing. The tibia.

Everybody can. Yeah. That's the thing. Everyone can do all of this stuff. It just takes some people a week and takes some people six months to figure it out. But then they can do it. Katie can do all this stuff. Cameron can do all this stuff.

She's hypermobile. He's, I would say, hypomobile, very tight. And we've had thousands of other people learn this stuff. And so it's possible to learn it. It just looks really easy when I do it because I've been doing it for almost a decade. Yeah. And that's a really cool thing, honestly, to say, though, because like most people think that you, you know, we're talking about some individuals that they tend to go towards yoga or these different things because they have a tendency towards that. Or maybe they're hypermobile.

But it's cool to understand that you don't have to be a hypermobile person to be able to do some of these things. Like you can learn it. Yeah. Very basic kind of movements. Really? Yeah. And it kind of movements, really. Yeah. And it's great for people to not compare themselves. I mean, that's always like a good general rule, right?

Stop comparing yourself to everyone else. But people will come in and they're like, I don't know. I don't think I'm doing it because they don't look like him. It's like you're a different person, different genetics, different background. You may not ever look like him when you do it and that's fine. Just compare yourself to yourself yesterday. Or they are doing it and the range of motion is just really small. Yeah, but that's fine just you know compare yourself to yourself yesterday not or they are doing it and the range of motion is just really small yeah but that's what i mean right just it's not gonna look like mine because i'm you know that but that's fine

sounds good how about um nutrition like because we talked about that a bit and you guys have that in your program so how does your nutrition look and how do you guys talk to people? You edited this, so go ahead. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a pretty basic approach, you know, eat less processed foods, ideally no processed foods. If you can swing that, I think a lot of people can't and that's okay, but just make better choices. We are, you know, we eat a lot of meat. I know some people, vegans, are going to get mad at me for that. But we feel best on an animal-based diet, a lot of plants, really just cutting out the processed food, limiting alcohol, cutting out added sugars. I think for most people it's like going after the low-hanging fruit and not getting too caught up in all the macros and getting super specific. If you're still eating processed garbage, like let's not worry about the other stuff. Let's just cut out like the really bad stuff.

And then you can get more granular with it as you proceed. But I think some people just get too caught up in getting too specific about what they can and can't eat. It's like if it comes in a package, just try not to eat it. You guys probably just generally eat like two or three times a day? Probably two, yeah. Yeah, we tend to – It's like you're not trying to fast or anything, but you just end up – We end up fasting in the morning.

Like we usually don't. We'll have like a coffee maybe, but then we don't usually eat until like after a workout. The coffee has like collagen in it and stuff like that and i'll i'll drink that and it's not really a fast but maybe a fast from solid foods till like 2 p.m yeah and then i'll eat like seven eggs and a bunch of shit and avocado and whatever and then i eat like six fruits and then i'll have like a pretty big pretty big meal yeah lots of fruit but that's actually a great example some people get caught up in well, too much fruit is bad because it's too much sugar or whatever. I'm like, do not – let's not villainize fruit. If you like fruit, eat it.

Let's worry about the Swedish fish and the gummy bears. So many people have issues with being addicted to processed food and with like binging. And it's hard to get the message across. It's like you don't really need a diet or like anything like crazy specific. You just need something that you can do consistently without having this binging going on. So if you can just make it a couple weeks without binging, a lot of people would lose weight, but they just, they have such a hard time because I think they keep trying to set up this hard diet for themselves.

They're in these caloric deficits, they're wearing their food and so forth, and they think they're trying to set up this hard diet for themselves. They're in these caloric deficits. They're wearing their food and so forth, and they think they're doing everything diligently and right. Their energy output is higher than normal. Their energy input is less than normal. And at some point, there's going to be a breaking point. There's always a price to pay. And when you do that for too long,

you're going to probably fall back into your own old habits. But if you're eating like that, I know it could be really difficult for a lot of people to wait till two o'clock. But it sounds like it's like two o'clock comes and wham, I get to fucking eat. I get to really eat and enjoy as much food as you. I mean, you're on the other side, right?

So you have more muscle mass and stuff like that. But I think a lot of people could lose weight by following a similar plan. Yeah, and I think the first part of our nutrition program is just drink more water because the sensations of hunger and thirst are the same. So at least knock this out, like drink more water, and that might reduce some of the hunger pangs that you have. I think there's such an emotional connection with food for so many people too

that our approach is an additive approach. We don't want to take things away. We want to add things in. So it's like add in more water, add in more vegetables, add in more fruit, add in more lean protein. More protein. And as a result, you're going to take away. Add in more peanut butter cups.

Whoops. That is my weakness those unreal peanut butter cups are really good they are they have like half the sugar or something right they're basically healthy you can also make your own I make a batch of those

I put protein powder in with the peanut butter delicious you still end up overeating though right you eat like the whole thing I? You eat the whole thing. I ate the whole thing. Whoops. It was intended to be healthy. It was intended to eat a little bit of it,

but you ate the whole thing. You guys fuck with a little bit of alcohol, and you used to be a bartender. So how do you guys navigate alcohol? Have you ever had issues with it, or is it just a little bit here and there just i haven't had issues i consumed a lot of it when i was a bartender um but i don't know i i wouldn't say i've had issues with it okay um the older i get the more i feel terrible after i drink so i just really

don't enjoy it a lot i mean i still do it sometimes but every time i'm like this is just not worth it i don't know just the older i get it just sucks yeah it sucks every time if i like, this is just not worth it. I don't know. Just the older I get, it just sucks. Yeah, it sucks every time. If I drink one, I'm okay. If I drink two, it's like I'm hungover the next day. What are we talking about when you drink one of what? Just one of anything. Whether it be like a seltzer, a glass of wine, a beer.

It's like I'm just – I mean the seltzers do seem for some reason to be less. Less intense. Like the gluten in beer and like the t tannins and wine, those trash me. My young college friends love that. They love like white, what do they call it? White claws. Oh.

Young. Those weird wine things or whatever or stelzers. It's just like vodka and water. Yeah. With some flavor. But they'll down my eight, nine, ten of that shit. Youth. Youth is wonderful.

Not to be young. No, it's just – I was just curious because we've had a lot of conversation about alcohol on the podcast. And there are some people that when we talk about alcohol, they are – I don't know what their situation is, but they don't think we're balanced enough since we barely drink, right? So I was just curious how you guys navigate that. It seems that you do drink sometimes. You just keep it minimal. Once a week, once every couple weeks. Yeah.

It just depends on the occasions and stuff. Yeah, I do like it sometimes in social settings. You know, when you're nervous or anxious, it can be nice to have a drink and just feel more relaxed. But I think working on your social skills and being able to have really great in-depth conversations without needing a substance to get there, it's a good skill to have. And also if you're like, it's Wednesday and you're like, dude, this week sucks. It's like, okay, wait. Let's take a step back and like can we work through this without another substance to dampen it? So we usually will be like, we really need a drink, but no. Let's talk about it.

And sometimes it's okay. I mean, I don't know. Sometimes we have that drink. My grandma who I was really close to passed away, and I was like, give me that bottle. I just don't have a drink today. It's okay. It's one time. I just want that right now.

And being a mom and being around other parents and stuff like that, it's so normal for alcohol to be just really thrown around very haphazardly. I hate to be that fucking freak fitness person who's so judgmental, but I am. I can't help it. It's just kind of burned into me. But I just, it's interesting how celebrated alcohol is. And I'm always just kind of like – I just – the hard thing for me is like I wish people could look at drugs all in a similar way. Because there's nothing wrong with a little bit of pot. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of alcohol. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of mushrooms. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of alcohol. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of mushrooms.

There's nothing wrong with any of it. But I think just using it appropriately, but it seems like people want to celebrate so often. And this thing on Wednesday is celebrated. And then this thing on Friday is celebrated. And then there's the football games on the weekend. You got college on Saturday. Then you have Sunday night footballs on. And then, oh, wait there's monday night football and there's monday night raw like

i might as well just keep going you you forgot about thursday night football yeah someone's fucking birth someone's birthday and it's just like man like this is really becoming one hell of a celebration you got going on here and along with the alcohols the shitty food right yeah and there's like there's also kind of a sense of entitlement I see with people. Maybe more so with food than alcohol, but like,

I worked really hard. I worked out five days. I deserve this. But you probably get moms who say, they're like, I can't ever look like you, but meanwhile,

they have wine in their hand and they're eating a bunch of crap and you're like, I don't think that you probably could. Yeah. I mean,

we talk about choosing your hard. Like meal prepping is hard. Saying no to things is hard. So is being overweight and out of shape and not being able to keep up with your kids. Like choose what hard you want. Maybe worse. You know?

Yep. I think it's with parenting, you know, kids, you know this if you have kids. You can say whatever you want to your kids. They're going to do what you do. They're not going to do what you say. So it's really cool to see, like, our youngest has a little rogue barbell, and he comes down, and, like, he wants, he's eight, and he wants to do workouts with us, and we'll set up obstacle courses.

And, you know, they're at an age where they're starting to get interested in living, you know, really the way that we do. Are they on any performance-enhancing drugs at the moment? Trying to get interested in living really the way that we do. Are they on any performance enhancing drugs at the moment? Trying to get them a scholarship or something? So that's a yes or a no? No. Okay. They can't say anything to mess up recruitment.

They have to stay quiet. Our oldest is an incredible athlete. Just spontaneously is very, very good at everything he does. Their minds are way different I'd imagine. Yeah. And you don't know why. It's just one is this way and one is the other way.

Their personalities could not be more different. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. They grew up with all the same or similar stuff. But they end up being way different. When it comes to the way you guys set up a life, I'm just curious. Like do you guys like sit a lot at home, sit when you work? Just like what are some of the different habits? Because like for me, I don't sit.

I barely sit. I fucking hate it at this point, right? What in your life is kind of abnormal or what would most people look at as being abnormal? We have a lot of bolsters in our living room. Bolsters? We have a lot of alternative seating options. Yoga. Those little blocks.

Do you know what a nugget couch is? It's something they make for kids. Andrew might know what a nugget couch is. I'm going to find it. It's a bunch of these cushions. It's actually great. It's meant to be a kid's couch that they can build forts out of. But we love this thing.

We put it out in our living room and we sit on it in different positions and lay on it. Dude, why didn't you guys bring this with you? Look at that. We could have been building forts. We want to get rid of our couch and just replace it with a couple of these. I just want to get a second nugget

and put it down because it's great. You can lay on your stomach, work on your laptop. So we move constantly throughout the day. We'll kneel and work. We'll sit for a little bit. Could be used as a sex ramp. I mean, it's much cheaper, I think, than the Liberator. Thanks, Susan.

Been loving it, actually. Thank you very much. We had someone on our podcast. I gifted it to us. I mean, that's great too. It's not quite as grippy. It doesn't slide. Get y'all a Liberator if you want.

Nice little tool. But I guess that might be better than a Liberator. Well, you kind of get two. You get two wedges with it. How much are one of those generally? Kind of expensive. Kind of expensive? I think so.

Like $250, $300, something like that. Oh, really? That's cheaper than a good couch? There's some knockoff ones, I think. Yeah. Sick. You guys come up with content via questions that you get? Sometimes, yeah.

Sometimes. I keep a list running sometimes if if i get triggered by something that usually sparks some content um or we'll just have some goofy i don't some of our stuff we post she usually has a lot of ideas and like i have a lot more of like the the creative like how to execute the idea like the different camera angles and lighting and whatever but she usually has the more like high level ideas and the executions where I'm at. Graham is good with that shit,

huh? Yeah. The barefoot sprinter. He comes in like a fucking director. Yeah, he did. He was, he'd get bossy right away.

It was great. I was like, this is perfect. Here's your line. And you're like, okay, great. No thought for me.

Sick. He's, he talks. I haven't noticed i don't know what you're talking about he doesn't yeah you think so does he talk while you're tying him up like a pretzel at jiu-jitsu he tries to that's great jiu-jitsu is fun because it's like, finally quiet. And people can see that you choked him out six minutes ago. Whoa, whoa, whoops. Amazing.

We love you, Barefoot Sprinter. We do. Genuinely do. Yeah, he's fun. Take us on out of here, Andrew. Just talks a little bit. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Sincerely appreciate it. Please drop us some comments down below and subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already.

And hit that like button on the way out. Please follow the podcast at MBPowerProject on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. My Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter is at IamAndrewZNC. Where are you at? Go to Discord. Go there now. It's in the description. But Seema Indy on Instagram, YouTube at SeemaYinYang on TikTok and Twitter.

Kate and Andrew, where can people find you, programs, all that good stuff? I am Katertaut on Instagram. Our business page is Wealth. That's spelled W Health. That is on Instagram and TikTok both. Our website is spreadwealth.com. And my personal Instagram is the dot shirtless dude that was all named by the people yeah it makes sense went with it that's why you still have no

shirt on to this day he hasn't worn a shirt since have you had any video interviews or anything on video where your shirt has been on no damn school pickups nice yes we have a rule he has to put a shirt on to pick up the kids from school so many rules why we have to be professional you know fair that's fair what video

has went most viral for you guys we've had a lot a few like a shoulder one actually one we posted

on hypermobility the other day is I think getting close to two million what do you think the what do you think kindility the other day is, I think, getting close to 2 million. What do you think kind of the main thing is to some of those, or is it too hard to detect? I would imagine some of it has to do with the way he's able to move around all weird, right?

Yeah, that definitely is. I think anytime you strike a chord with someone, either it's really funny or it's just something that a lot of people have issues with. It's something that resonates with them. It seems to take off. We had one that took off. It was absolute fluke. It was a pelvic health video. It was part of a series.

People saw it out of context. He was sitting on a ball. That sparked 10,000 inappropriate comments. That was an inadvertent viral video that went viral for all the wrong reasons. It was like nuts were hanging out or something? Kind of like the camera angle was, you know, unfortunate. Are you searching for it, Andrew? Unfortunate or encouraging?

That one's not pinned. We did not pin that on our page. That was on TikTok. Okay, I'm on Instagram. What's the shoulder one that you did? Maybe we can bring that up. Yeah, that one's pinned on Instagram. The's the shoulder one that you did? Maybe we can bring that up. Yeah, that one's pinned on Instagram. The wealth page?

Yeah, it'd be good just to play one or two before we hop off just so people can kind of hear and see what. Maybe it's not pinned. No, not. It's on TikTok. It's pinned. Oh, God, you guys are dirty. All right, Eve. Yeah, you got to clickbait people a little bit.

Like, we still have to play the game. I don't know. Where do you find TikTok? I don't know. is that on the internet it's on the worldwide web yeah but but again your content's like super useful even if somebody didn't get your program i mean they probably should um there's a lot of really useful stuff that people can like take and literally do and feel immediately from both your individual pages and then also the wealth page so it's a lot it's a wealth of knowledge it is we try to i mean we know that you know money can be tight for people for sure and we don't ever want that to be a barrier to people being healthier and taking some ownership over their health outcomes

um so we do have a lot of free programs too that are specific for just one area of the body but I mean we'll have people that'll do one of the free programs that we threw together and they're like oh my god this changed my life my pain is gone we're like great wow this one has I think 2 million views on TikTok

fucking crazy ooh you can get a little audio on there huh I just Jim Carrey was a big uh these muscles and these muscles work on scapular strengthening and most importantly be patient healing takes time take ownership i forgot to ask you some other be some other shoulder-ish. You mentioned the pronation of the shoulder.

Where do you think the back should be? And how should the back look? Like just for someone just standing or walking. Protraction. Protraction of the shoulder. Yeah. Yeah. How people should walk is the way that they're going to walk.

I used to teach people, like, you need to walk around like like a fucking robot and like you need to have all these things stacked and it just creates a lot of stress and anxiety and it can create more issues in the long run so you know we teach people how to like do these positions when they're training and then their body as they start to build strength in these positions it's going to hold itself there so when i'm walking around i just i walk like i you know if my head's a little bit forward, if I'm a little bit rolled that day, then I am. If I have a big arch in my back that day, I do.

I'm not going to obsess about it. You're not going to die walking around with some positions. I think what is going to get to you is if you just never do any sort of strengthening or movement, then things can really start to compound. You might feel like your posture is really causing an issue, which it may be. It may not be. But really just applying these techniques in your strengthening program is going to make a huge difference for you when you're not doing that program.

Yeah. I would agree with that in a lot of ways. I think worrying about it when you're under load or when you're lifting a weight is important. Hopefully, over time, that will ingrain into your day-to-day. Obviously, you still should be probably thinking about the way that you walk if you have recognized that to be a problem for you. Or if you have a lot of back pain, maybe you want to start to think about the way that you bend down to pick up certain things. Maybe you should do that a little bit more like the way that you would pick up a kettlebell in the gym. And maybe you would be less likely to hurt yourself.

Exactly. A lot of social accounts, they show you like you should never bend over like this. And like it's for someone that's not in pain, it's just creating fear. And that can create anxiety and make pain. So it's like just, you know, if you can move and you're doing it pain-free, then keep doing that stuff. I think it's good to pay attention to and work on improving it. But, you know, it's one of those things where you're never, there's never an end point and there's never like that perfect point. Like there's not a perfect position. So, you know, stop striving for that and don't get

obsessive about it because some people can just, yeah, they just get anxious and hold a lot more tension and too much stress. All right. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness. Weakness never strength. Catch you guys later. Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thank you.