Massenomics Podcast - Ep. 308: Jordan Feigenbaum of Barbell Medicine

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Big Dr. Jordan Feigenbaum joined us for this one to talk the nuance of Barbell Medicine. We also talked about his history with Starting Strength, 5/3/1, and dirt bikes! The Strength Co: https://www.thestrength.co/ Swiss Link: https://www.swisslink.com and use code MASS to save 15% Hybrid Performance Method: https://www.hybridperformancemethod.com/ MASS to save 5% on all training & nutrition Fusion Sports Performance: https://www.fusionsp.net/ MASS to save 20% on all FSP supplements Spud Inc: https://www.spud-inc-straps.com/ Texas Power Bars: https://www.texaspowerbars.com/

You know, thanks for what you do with your podcast and all the rest. You're doing a great job. I hope everybody keeps tuning in. You get a lot of good info, a lot of insights, understandings on how to get strong, how to stay strong, how to use your strength. You do a great job, dude. You make things better than they are in real life, I think.

If you don't follow Massanomics, y'all do it. Social media, website, everything. Massanomics! side and everything. Massonomics! Welcome back everyone for episode 308 of the Massonomics podcast. The lifting podcast about nothing. Recorded live from western northeast South Dakota. My name is Tanner.

And my name is Tommy. Tommy, we got all kinds of hot new items fresh off the press this week, don't we? Including the shorts heard around the world. It's kind of like the shot heard around the world. They are the shorts heard around the world. But before that, I want to tell you about a couple things. First one on my list that I really want to talk to you about was the hybrid training and strength coach app the hybrid strength coach app is here and it is stacked with the most popular hybrid training programs coaching videos

exercise demonstrations and instructional images to ensure your technique is on point they have world-class training programs designed by the greatest minds and strength delivered straight to your mobile device the hybrid strength coach app sets a new standard for the industry, providing a streamlined platform for athletes of all backgrounds and putting the power of the strongest team right in the palm of your hands. The Hybrid Strength Coach programs include access to program-specific private Discord communities for live access to real-time feedback from the hybrid coaches.

Visit them at hybridperformancemethod method.com make sure to use our discount code there that discount code is mass and it'll save you a massive five percent on the lifetime of your membership for that strength coach app or for any of their training and nutrition programming five percent off code mass hybrid performance method.com another thing i wanted to talk to you about was do we gotta do two of those or not yeah right oh yeah oh you got another thing yeah another thing like on a piece of paper yeah no yeah another another it's so natural that's right it's not yeah i can't even i don't even know anymore see nobody knows if this is really an ad or not i'm literally

watching you go right into the ad read and i'm being tricked like is this is that uh no back and enjoy the show this isn't an ad i just wanted to tell you uh how much i've been enjoying the strength co plates at massonomics gym oh tell me more they really have become and i say this with 100 honesty um it almost feels like i haven't said this before but they really have become the go-to plates of massonomics gym i have to mention myself that i just out of bad timing i guess had not got to use the rack that has the strength coat plates on it for a couple weeks yeah and i just used it the other day and man they're nice you went right to it i went right to it i said enough of this i have to go back to these yeah they're uh e-coated of course

and i've said it before, but the E-coat finish on those lasts like you would not believe. It's no joke, that finish. And the styling of it. You know, why is it that there's a reason everyone goes to those plates? I think it's the way that they look and the way that they feel. It's that classic styling. It is.

It's like the old friend you can always count on. It is. And the beauty of it is, you know, there's a count on it is um and the beauty of it is you know there's a good guy behind it big grant is running it and uh as we like to say he really has become the buddy caps of our generation he has yes he addressed the known issues it was uh during uh supply chain issues of 2020 and he said i'm just the man making a short yes and like i'm going to address these. And here we are today. And I've been seeing the Strength Co plates pop up in all kinds of gyms.

See it on our Discord community, on Instagram, everywhere, all over the place. They look just as good everywhere else as they do in our gym. But I'm a personal favorite, personal fan of the ones at Massanomics Gym. And now I know what everyone's thinking. Where do I get myself a pair of these? TheStrengthCo.com. It's that simple, isn't it? That all right so thank you the strength co thank you tanner like always we got a lot to cover today yes uh it's been cold as a witch's

oh my god it has been very cold out and uh not even just cold really windy like really windy it's not the cold that gets you it's the wind right yeah it has been like negative 30 some degree wind chill yeah i think my phone this morning said negative five feels like negative 35 yeah okay yeah it's pretty cold yeah it's pretty brutal and we got a decent bit of snow out of it too well at least it well it was blowing so much that the drifts were significant that was the thing is the drifts my it's not the snow total inches it's the drifts it's not just was the thing is the drifts. It's not the snow total inches. It's the drifts that get you. It's not just the snow.

It's the drifts. I think you said the same thing for your driveway, but my entire driveway stays totally clear except a foot from like directly out from the garage door. And then it's four feet high. And luckily most of it piles in front of the third stall. So I don't really worry about that one right but yeah drifting drifting was going on the dog loves it dog's actually joining us tonight yeah he loves

the snow he just goes out and jumps around it like it's the best thing yeah drifts and we're not talking about tokyo drift uh no tokyo drifting up in here what is that uh fast and furious three i think so i've actually never seen that one too fast too furious okay naturally and is that with all the real people because tokyo drift is none of the see i've never seen it i don't know but what about the second one is that like vindy soul i yeah i'm pretty sure the second one and i know the second one but i've probably seen the second one one time in my life i saw the first when i was younger man i'd watch that first one on repeat i thought that was like the coolest thing ever i've i can recall the first one very well you know i've seen that a number of times anything i've actually seen tokyo drift probably a couple

times i don't remember anything i don't really know anything outside of those ones yeah i don't i don't either that's what it started to go from like being a car thing to just like straight up being like a marvel superhero right like the first one has superpowers it's pretty good though isn't it yeah it's just kind of like this car heist stealing street movie like that was a good movie i thought i'd actually love to watch it again because i probably haven't seen it since i was in eighth grade yeah see how it holds up very classic very classic car movie though yes it is really put the super on the map yeah that's true so talking about the shorts that were heard around the world uh the lift shorts 3.03 did uh debut and have been shipping out all across the country even internationally they're on the way to some uh canadian followers and

european european they're on the way to those places but i think uh within the u.s they've been showing up kind of yesterday, today, tomorrow. There's a bunch that are getting delivered to people's doorsteps now. We've been getting a great library of fit pics in the Discord. So if anyone really wants to know how they fit, all you got to do is massanomics.com slash join,

sign up. You can get in the Discord and you can see just photos of guys modeling these things. Yeah, and everyone's putting their height and weight and what size they got. You can see just photos of guys modeling these yeah and everyone's putting their height and weight and what size they got and it's uh you can see plenty of bulges in there there's no shortage of bulges uh but i think people have been we we did end up we had some internal debate on what uh what ways we can use to best help people understand sizing on these and we ended up going with the model shots where it lists the height weight what size they're wearing we also did uh come out with a sizing chart so i think and sizing charts are hilarious because we did some extensive research and comparison i feel like i own a fair number of brands of shorts. And basically for me, universally across the board,

I wear large shorts. I have a lot of brands of large shorts. And so you go do comparisons of what these companies say a large short is and their measurements in waist varies by anywhere between two and seven inches for what a large is. They all basically fit the same,

but if i actually went purely off the size chart i would not have all larges so i do not get who comes up with size charts there's some other brands that are pretty adjacent to us in this space that have size charts that i'm like i don't know how those are up there because those are not just completely far off of accurate the size charts there are size charts that have sizes in them that actually don't even those sizes are not rooted in reality at all. Like if you went by those, you would end up way off. Yeah, I guess it just makes people feel better.

Like I think ours does make sense, but it's kind of like a weighted average of everything out there in the world. Right. I think if you use all the information available, the size chart and the pictures and, you know, like mash up that information, you can come chart and the pictures and you know like mash up that information you can come up with your best uh you know but odds are for most people there's like two sizes that are going to fit yeah so it really it also comes down to what your preferences are and

that also is the thing like i i could as far as the legs go mediums fit me no problem it's just the waist starts to get really tight in a medium um and also extra larges fit me just fine too it's like they're just bigger it's just even bigger i don't need that much material hanging around you know right yeah the waistbands are there is quite a significant amount of stretch there so yeah it just but depends on what you like yeah but overall though i think they've been going pretty good really good we've gotten some really positive reviews back some people saying believe it or not that we're actually not charging enough. You know, we laugh, but that actually is something that's been said several times now.

It's just kind of funny to think about. Us short selling ourselves. What the hell is the world coming to? Short selling. Yeah, short selling. We're literally short selling. It's the big short. Yeah. I guess we've talked about

it multiple times now like we had no idea going into this product what it was going to be like but yeah we're pretty happy with it yeah and i think uh i think you're going to want to get yourself a pair if you've been on the fence the jury is in you are going to want a pair of these like you won't will not be disappointed the decision's been made you'll probably think that they should have been twice as expensive by the time you get them and you can use code mass won't do anything but you can use it right we'll allow you to use it you just it won't do anything no i would for sure give it a try yeah it may or may not say yes or no yeah what's uh what's your can action over there oh Oh. Do you have any cans I could... Yeah, actually, I think this is a what's in the can, Tanner. Oh, okay.

You know, the library is so deep that I can't remember everything. It's not like I'll know. It's not like I'll... Yeah, you won't. While you're suiting up over there, Tanner, I got to give a birthday shout out to Bernie over here. He's four years old today. Getting to be an old man. He is an old dog.

That's almost Submasters in dog years. He is closing in on that Submasters. Next year, I think it probably hits him, doesn't it? Yep. Alright, here you go. There is the can. It's unopened, so I know it hasn't been tampered with.

As far as you know. I'm just trying to think if I would get this. It tastes like a Sprite to me. It does it. does it it really tastes like a Sprite to me so I'm just going to go with it's a lemon lime tastes good

it does taste really good I'm going to say it's a lemon lime sparking water I don't really have a guess on the flavor I'm going to say not LaCroix but I don't know if that's right so that's my go ahead and take a look here Tanner i honestly don't know if we've done this one before well i was completely wrong we have a blood orange lemonade so it's so you got the lemon you got the lemon part of the sprite right now let me see if now

that i know this if i i thought you were to get the orange for sure, I thought you're going to say orange. It does. Actually, now that you say that, it does taste more like an orange sun kiss than anything. Maybe that's just what I was. Sometimes I'm confused myself on what familiar flavors I am going up against. And I do think it tastes like a orange sun, you know, an orange soda. Yeah, that is pretty good, though. Kale loves orange soda. I i do i do i'd maybe give this four four jd powers here my my first reaction though is just that it tastes real good it is delightful now what is a blood orange though does it taste like

a blood orange i don't know if i've ever had a blood orange in my life i don't know if that's a bigger orange than normal a smaller orange if I've ever had a blood orange in my life. I don't know if that's a bigger orange than normal, a smaller orange, if that's a regular size orange. I have no idea. I would think maybe it's kind of reddish colored. Yep. I wonder how it transfers to a sparkling water like what they use differently in their flavoring.

Do you think there's anything that, like, if this company also makes something that's not blood orange, it's just orange? Do you think that is 100% just it like even a marketing yeah is it actually a different is there anything different about it i bet i'm gonna say that there's not that's if i had to bet i would bet there's not this one has the word blood in front of it that's the difference well that's what i yeah that's that is like the only difference is that wouldn't surprise me one bit like a orange lemonade might not sell the best but blood orange lemonade now that that

would sell yep uh have you noticed the newest challenge making the circles on instagram oh yes the um crate challenge no no not that one it's the mannequin challenge is that someone repost where did someone uh i think it was someone put it in the our mannequin challenge is that someone repost where did someone uh i think it was someone put it in the our mannequin challenge from like we i don't think i don't know if are you in the mannequin challenge that we do i think i recorded it okay i think i used my phone to yeah yeah so that was like uh from 2016 i think is that what year it was yeah and it's on our youtube and someone yeah because someone linked our youtube to the mass dynamics uh mannequin challenge that we did in like 2016 and that was we did a pretty good

as i watched that i'm like that's a pretty good mannequin challenge it was not a bad one um oh no but you were talking about planking right plank you know that's what yeah um no the what i don't even know what they're calling it it's the broomstick is that what it is the broomstick challenge i think so where you put your arms looping by into broomstick and try and get up yeah did you have like watching that does there any is there any part of you that makes you want to try and do that not really not really at all um i just i just see myself hurting myself doing it like hurting my my back somehow. Or at the very least, like hurting your face. Because then I see people always mentioning like, oh, I totally got rug burn on my face.

I'm like, I do not want rug burn on my face to say I did some dumb internet challenge. My thing is I have enough stuff, enough aches and pains. Don't need to be putting yourself in dangerous positions for the thrill of it. A pre-submasters me would have been more interested in it, but my submasters.

When you were in the open, maybe then you would have thought about it. Yeah, people are mentioning in the Discord, Alan Thrall did do one that was pretty funny, where it looks like the broomstick's sticking up out of his ass. And he's got a ball gag in. He gets up and is someone that that's been like tortured almost. That's like a running away. Awesome.

That was pretty funny. There were a few guys that I saw attempted and kind of go down on their face pretty hard. I know like, like John Hack, John Hack had one Russell or he had one too, or he looked like eight shit pretty hard. Yeah.

Yeah. That does. That part doesn't look like fun. No, don't sign me hard? Yeah. Yeah, that part doesn't look like fun. No. Don't sign me up for that. It is funny the way that those challenges and stuff like that, like... Just how they kind of go viral.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Like, who started it? Where did it come from? Right. We'll never know. You just don't know. What's the...

You know, where does this rank in like the challenges for you do you think this is a good i think this one's relatively this one's uh what i would consider to be a bit of a flash in the pan yeah it's not as exciting as i think like i feel like the mannequin challenge all that stuff that one was that one and that one was pretty big yeah because it didn't involve anything very physical you know right just kind of be goofy with it right and it had like that song tied to it but now almost i don't think that would happen either really more because all that stuff happens on tiktok now right well but that would still spill over but it has a lot of that is just kind of tiktok that almost is like what made sort of yeah

that really would be designer made for tikt it's that Black Beatles in the city. That was the song, and everyone just would have used that song. And I do like, you know, one of the TikTok trends I really liked is when it was that Smash Mouth song. Oh, dude, those? Where people, like, smash their face? Yeah, and what song is it? Somebody Wants.

Yeah, and they do a long pause. That was, that was good. The person I saw was the person walking out of the hockey rink and slams their face in the wall. That actually made me laugh out loud, which is pretty rare. Same way with that.

I want, who was the first person that like was like, yeah, if we use the, the song and this like use a gap right there, it's like, buddy. Yeah.

That was funny there is also along the lines of that there is a because you know all-star by smash mouth has kind of a cult level to it i'm not going to say like smash mouth in general kind of does right there is a version on youtube of uh all-star where it's like 20 hours long i think and they just say it's just like and the years start coming and they don't stop coming like 20 hours long i think and they just say it's just like and the years start coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they just keep going and it just goes and goes and goes yeah it is pretty funny yeah not for i don't know if it's actually 20 hours or if it's an hour but it's way long that part is way longer than it should be and

that's kind of how the song goes but it is funny i like smash mouth eyes in 19 when i was like 10 uh 10 12 that was one of the first cds i ever got there uh walking on the sun yep uh that one didn't know what it was just saw the picture in a best buy flyer and i was in a store i was probably what at the time fourth grade said i need that cd and that was the first cd ever i had that cd too it was one of the early cds i thought walking on the sun was a banging song and at the end of it they had why can't we be friends on it to cover and i thought that was awesome too yep i had a walkman that i would carry around in this so that i didn't get that for a few years after that still and um you know i had several jock jams of the early

jock jams went pretty hard back then yeah Yeah. They had some bangers on there. Yeah. I think one of some of the first CDs that I remember buying were that a smash mouth one and a sugar Ray, whatever. That was pretty classic then too. Yeah. Then I had a wallflowers album.

Wallflowers. Yeah. Jacob Dillon. Right. Yeah. It is Bob Dylan's son. I think. Right.

Yeah. Have we talked about that on the podcast before? I think we have, actually. Okay. I think we've just talked about everything at some point. If you talk about old stuff, at some point it's going to be, oh, we've definitely talked about this. What's the hit song off of that Wallflowers album?

One Headlight? Yeah, that's what it is, yeah. There it is. Yep. Good song. Do you like that song? Oh, that's a great 90s song, isn't it? Yeah, I think so.

With one headlight. Yeah, that's a great 90s song, isn't it? I think so. With one headlight. Yeah, that's a classic 90s song. I love it. There's a lot of shitty 90s songs. There's a lot of good ones, too, and that's one of the good ones. Yeah. There's probably a lot of bad songs on that album, even for that matter. It is funny when you think about how there's a lot of songs that are actually bad, but it's just the nostalgia factor.

Oh, no, that was a song I listened to growing up, that's why you like it music yeah great stuff uh my four-year-old she likes uh to watch the macarena and um what's the other one the spice girls um the most popular one um wannabe yeah yeah she really likes that one too so i've been yeah hearing that spice girls jam there's something about pop songs like like those top pop songs they they had something figured out with them yeah we're kind of spans time uh three-year-old like just like clicks are like yeah this is good this is what i like yeah hey i know it's pop music there's something to it what was what's your favorite spice girl can you name them all oh i could name them all for sure well i couldn't name their actual real

name no no sporty ginger scary baby and bait no sporty ginger scary baby is there five or four one more posh yeah married to david beckham okay obviously i didn't know that and which one is posh she's got dark hair uh victoria that's not sporty okay okay mrs beckham married to david yeah yeah i didn't know that yep uh so which one's your favorite space girl oh boy Oh, boy. Like me in like fourth grade or me right now? Fourth grade. I don't even know what I'd say in fourth grade.

Boy. Part of me thinks I would have said Sporty Spice then because she was the sporty one. Right. But I don't know if I actually felt that way or not. Not that big on Sporty Spice Right. But I don't know if I actually felt that way or not. Not that big on sporty Spice. Yeah. I don't know. Nowadays, probably you have to say Posh Spice. Probably Victoria Beckham is probably the most relevant one out of all of them.

Speaking of things that are relevant, did you see that someone, it appears as if they benched 800 pounds? I did see that someone, it appears as if they benched 800 pounds. I did see that. And I'm going to tell you the 804.7 pounds. This is Daniel Zamani. What country? I don't know. I was just going to ask you.

I don't know what the actual country is. I don't know. I'm not sure what country he's from. There seems to be some controversy around it, much like all of his benching. I think we've talked about him over the last couple of months also. And it's just, I don't know. I can't,

I'm not a forensic video to be able to tell if it's real or not, but we're going to run it to the mass. And I'll enhance machine, right? The, the things people would bring up is like, yeah, he's kind of got like barely got like a spotter and some side spotters.

And it doesn't seem like maybe the spotter is all that big i don't know if you have to be that big and then maybe people talk about how the weight doesn't bounce that much like when he re-racks it i don't know i watched julius's really heavy ones and i didn't see that his bounces that much either if you're not like really like slamming it down that is where it's tricky is yeah where yeah just because you don't have a whole lot to compare to for like raw benches on calibrated plates and all that right my favorite thing though about him and his benching and all of that is two things number one it's my coach and pointing to that awful picture of it like that coach it's like no if

you want to do that you just tag him that's way more helpful for everyone right because my like like are people supposed to screenshot it is people screenshot and do like a reverse google image search to find your coach like no you just tag him that's all but what i actually like better and i think we talked about this in the gym is when he walks around before before in every lift he'll walk around this way and point up like this on this hand then he'll turn the other way point up like this on this hand. Then he'll turn the other way, point up with this on this hand. Like this is, I like this go to, uh,

it's go to, yeah, you're a thing. It's his signature move. You got to have this. Every athlete, top level athlete has to have a signature. And that's his,

and it's, it is signature. Uh, I, but I think, uh, much like what everyone would say is we would like to see that in a competition,

real or fake. I know it's like, let's, let's like to see that in a competition. Real or fake. I know. Like, let's see. That is kind of the thing. I don't know. And I think him and Julius are supposed to do some bench off against each other at, like, C.T. Fletcher's gym. Okay.

That'd be really cool. I don't know if that's ever going to happen. And we don't even know what country he's from. So what logistic nightmares are there for this guy? I'm pretty sure it's the Middle East somewhere. Yeah. That guy is big. There's no doubt about that.

But also, he doesn't look like Julius. Julius Maddox probably outweighs him by 100 pounds doesn't he julius maddox is really big so that is the thing is as big as this guy looks at julius is huge yeah i don't know yeah you definitely you got to see in a meet like if he just never does a meet right then it kind of feels like, well, what was his point? Why is he doing this training and peaking just to do it in the gym? If you could break the world record, wouldn't you be doing that in a meet? You would think so. Even if he goes to a meet and does 750, I'd still say that's a smashing success.

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, just to see another guy be up in that area in an actual meet is a big deal. Right. So I'm curious to see what happens with this and how things go. Only time will tell. Only time will tell. That's all there is. Big Daniel.

Daniel, what did I say again? Zamani. Zamani. Yep. 804.7. I ran, it looks like. And i would close that with just this if you're listening you can't tell but i'm doing this pointing thing up pointing like pretty close to your face too like keeping it real close to your head not like out here not like yeah it's almost like he's pointing

yeah he's thinking that is yeah yeah you're just not quite sure what it is oh we've got this little segment i wondered if we should bust out it's actually Yeah, yeah. You're just not quite sure what it is. We've got this little segment I wondered if we should bust out. It's actually a relatively new segment. I don't know if you're familiar with it at all, but it's called Supporting Our Supporting Members. I am familiar with it. It's one of my favorite, and I would actually say it might be one of the fastest-growing segments.

I would say it's relatively new and one of the fastest-growing. I mean, those things probably work in conjunction. when it is relatively new it grows quickly but we've got a laundry list of supporting our supporting members this week and what this segment is is we have this group of massonomics podcast supporting members they choose to support us monetarily and by doing so they get a whole bunch of stuff uh number one is they get access to our private Mastonomics Discord community, which we're looking at and laughing right now. Someone put up the look at this photograph

that they have Tommy's. Yeah, just cycling through. But they get access to the private Mastonomics Discord community, which also gets them access to listening to the podcast live as we record it, just like they are right now. Real time. There's a discount codes and they get early access to drop.

Sometimes they get early information on drops. They're really on the inside pulse of massonomics. If you're a pretty big follower fan of massonomics, it would almost be crazy for you not to jump on and be a part like almost actually insane yes you might have to get admitted somewhere so uh to touch on this week supporting our supporting members we had several of our members competing this week um number one big andrew montoya uh west river andrew doesn't currently live in south dakota but he is a Montoya, West River Andrew, doesn't currently live in South Dakota,

but he is a South Dakota native. He put up a 1,967 pound total, and he did that via a 772 squat, 463 bench, and 733 deadlift. Those numbers are not messing around. No, that's pretty intense. Very intense. That's a really big total it is and pretty um pretty strong on all three lifts too like he's closing in an 800 pound squat and that does not happen on accident does it does not and then it gets to a confusing part so as i try to follow things through the work on throughout the week on

supporting our supporting members so i make sure to be prepared for the segment when we do it on the podcast, especially since it's relatively new and growing quickly. There was two. I didn't realize this until somewhere. I don't know when it hit me, but there was two Sams, two big Sams competing this weekend that are both supporting members. Oh, really? So there was confusion. And I don't think I was the only one confused in the discord that of which sam was which and then the other sam said oh that wasn't me that was the other sam i just assume there's two of every name yes there's some

of them there's like four yeah because it kind of is that way every time i think i have someone figured out i'm like oh no no it's the other person with the same name yeah so the one that i'll say is i think big sam and i could still have some of this swapped but i think this is right big samuel nimacheck it was his first ever meet and he did a 391 squat a 319 bench and a 440 deadlift for an 1152 total nice i think i have that right the other one big sam goes by big sam in the discord he had a 490 squat a 319 bench so they benched the same they did or do i just have that confused well you'll never know and he pulled 551 in his first meet going nine for nine awesome so the the sams really pulled it together didn't they the sams made it

happen yeah and then speaking of when we have more than one person's name in the discord big david okay yeah i think there's 10 of those yeah big david uh one of the big davids he i think he's actually big david in the discord i know he's got the eight bit strong man as his profile picture he did a strongman competition and i just saw the video i don't i don't know how it all shook out for him but i saw a video of him doing uh the dinny stone style carry almost like a farmer's walk but it's on you know the loading pins like the dinny stone and looked like he is did really well in that event but uh i don't know how he shook out all together but he was competing this weekend so just wanted to give him our support awesome so that is supporting our

supporting members god there was a lot of support Yeah, and if you want to become a supporting member, what's the website again for that? Asinomics.com slash join. That's so simple. So easy. And you just enter in your information and boom, we got you for life. Yep.

Or until you decide to cancel. Or yeah, but you don't want to cancel. No, no, you don't. That's not the point of this. The point is to never cancel. Yeah, you get kicked out of the Discord then. Not what anyone wants. Should we read some more ads, Tanner?

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Maybe Gabagool. I'm just going to name all the sports cars, assuming they're Italian. Every one of them. They're all Italian. Alfa Romeos. There you go. There you go.

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Save 15% off your first order from SwissLink.com with code MASS at checkout. That's SwissLink, S-W-I-S-S-L-I-N-K.com. Thank you, SwissLink, and thank you, Fusion Sports Performance. Yeah, SwissLink, I've been seeing some people checking that out for the first time. There's a lot to take in there. Yes, it's a journey just going to Swiss Link. I've been seeing some people checking that out for the first time. There's a lot to take in there. Yes, it's a journey just going to SwissLink.com. Now should we get our Big Jordan on the phone? I think so. Better say

by Discord, right? Yep, see you Discord. See you Discord. Oh. False alarm. They're still here. Oh. I feel like they're watching our every move. For some reason, my keyboard shortcut just went beep.

Wouldn't work. Finally, they're gone. I'd use the old mouse clicker. All right. Here we go. Yeah, Big Jordan, is that you? That's me. I like Big Jordan.

Everyone, we have a phrase that everyone at Mastanics is big no matter what size you are. I like that. Yeah, you're including everyone. I love that. Yeah, we have a gym, and that's kind of the policy there. Every new member gets dubbed as being big, male or female, and it's kind of like a badge of honor at that point. Yeah, there's no, like, little Brian. So we're excited to get you on uh i'm tanner

and i'm tommy what's up jordan hey nice to meet you guys and uh i should say dr jordan feigenbaum am i saying your last name correctly or am i mispronouncing it no i think you crushed it and in the last 12 months you're the only person who's got it right so i feel like we should give you another accolade like yeah something thank you we usually hand out jd power and associates awards yeah i was gonna go there yeah best in class yeah yeah um no we've we've uh kind of been talking about getting you on for a while and we're excited to do it we've got a lot of stuff to talk to you about and it's funny we have a massonomics discord uh group uh kind of a private group there

and we get a whenever we have a guest lined up we always let them in on who it's going to be and they fire off anything that they kind of want to hear us talk about that sort of thing or that they make their comments about it and um they when we told them we were having you on it was about as much activity as i've seen ever before. And the number of people and number of topics, they said, if you really want to get Jordan going, talk about X.

Oh boy. Oh boy. Good or good or bad. A lot of activity. Yeah. Well, and no, none of it,

none of it bad, but just kind of fun comments like where if you, Oh, if you really want to get him going, you bring this up. So you must be no stranger to having some strong opinions on things, I would say. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, I feel like part of the allure, I guess, when people ask me questions is they're waiting. Is there a rant on the other end of this?

And especially early on, you know, when the internet, like online space for strength conditioning goes first, like blowing up, I definitely was more polarizing, I think, as far as where my opinions were. And then I ended up meeting all these people that maybe I was, you know, interacting with or talking about. And in general, everyone's in the spaces. They're nice people, you know, or at least trying to be nice or helpful or whatever. nice people, you know, or at least trying to be nice or helpful or whatever. So it's, but there are still some pet topics that, yeah, I mean, I definitely need some blood pressure medication on board to talk about, to talk about safely for sure. Well, do you find that that's tricky sometimes is that, uh, because I would agree we've, we've had hundreds of guests on our podcast at the time where that, that spans such a variety of viewpoints on things. And we're pretty, we always remain pretty neutral and just like to, you know, give people their forum to...

Say their thing. Yeah, but there is such a... But everyone is so nice. Like, we've never had, like, a bad interaction with people, too. But do you find it hard, like, if you're going back and forth with those people online or whatever it might be like that you want to hold back because you um then kind of get along with them yeah yeah especially now and i think you know there's a couple things going on like one i was younger right into it had maybe uh a more narrow more narrow perspective over like this is what people

should be doing or here's how to think about this in a correct or evidence-based kind of way or whatever. But people's perception, their lived experiences all kind of go into their belief systems, right? And I think having more of a knowledge about that gives me additional understanding of where they're coming from. Even if I don't agree,

I can kind of get to a point where I'm like, yeah, well, I understand why you think what you do, even if we disagree. And so if you're going through that level of like analysis of somebody else's belief or statement or claim or whatever, it's really hard to, at the end of all that, be like, yeah, well, you know, you're a jerk. You've kind of connected with them, right? So I don't know, people ask me very frequently to like, you know, how do you,. People ask me very frequently, like, how do you argue with folks? Or how would you convince somebody of this, of a particular thing? And I'm like, well, I don't know if you go into a conversation with another human.

I don't think that's the best way to do it. I think you should try to understand where they're coming from. And that probably gives you additional perspective that may be useful for your understanding. And then only then can you have an actual discussion where you're hearing them, they're hearing you. And at the end, you know, everybody's better for actually having the discussion. If you just want to be a jerk on the internet, just say what you believe and then leave, leave the chat, you know, exit, which, which I think is probably maybe where I started. And I, you know, if I could go back and do some things differently, I probably would not, not because I feel like, you know, I'm never going to be a jerk or an idiot in public again, but it's kind of like, what's the point of that? You know, there's, there's so much stuff that we should actually be getting angry about or be passionate about that, like arguing with somebody over like bar placement on the squad or something, or like deadlift, deadlift mechanics are like, dude dude what are we actually talking about going to battle over just yeah

how people lift that's how we said yeah i know so yep yep you're the founder of barbell medicine could you explain like put it in a nutshell kind of what barbell medicine is and what you do with that sure yeah sure so the tagline that I like is that we're bringing modern medicine to strength conditioning and strength conditioning to modern medicine. Basically, my background was a gym owner, educator for a large, an educator for a large personal training company in St. Louis. That's where I'm from. That's where I started. And basically what I was doing while I was in medical school was kind of,

I mean, I was immersed in the in the medical space you know learning medicine and how to prevent disease reduce risk from disease treat disease stuff like that but then my background prior to that was all strength conditioning coaching folks whatever so I had this big you know base of knowledge and experience of the fitness world and I was like these two things need to overlap. We in medicine, for example, we pay lip service, it seems like to all this lifestyle change. And you can see that in every recommendation guideline, you know, bullet consensus statement about preventing whatever disease or medical condition or managing it. It's always their lifestyle. So and that just means dietary intervention and exercise. But then when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of like, all right, well, what kind of exercise, how do you, you know, structure the exercise? How do you recommend exercise? What's any specifics?

There's none of that in the medical field. And I'm like, all right, so we need to lease that at bare minimum. And then all of the fitness professionals like coaches and stuff like that, they're there, if they're, you know, working with any human, and enough humans, they're gonna be people that have medical conditions, whether it's high blood pressure, type two diabetes, you know, common stuff, or even more rare stuff like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and those athletes would be at risk of like sudden cardiac death. And so you need to be, you know, kind of aware of, they need to be aware of each other, you know, so not only from like a preventative standpoint, if you make feel good

public health, that sort of thing, but also for like actually dealing with athletes. So in any case, what happened is I started this in 2012. And I basically just started putting out information on the internet pertaining to, you know, how, where these things overlap. So for example, like, what is high blood pressure? How does exercise affect blood pressure? What can you, you know, how, where these things overlap. So for example, like what is high blood pressure? How does exercise affect blood pressure? What can you, uh, you know, reasonably expect to see from a person who has high blood pressure if they start exercising and people seem to really like that. And also nobody else was doing it. And still, even to this day, like, I'm like, where's the barbell medicine version 2.0. And they call themselves, I don't know, like,

I don't know what they would call it. don't it doesn't exist because there's no good name for it we took the only one that actually exists so there's nobody like you know we can't come up with a name so we're just gonna yeah yeah yeah there's no yeah they can't workshop their way into a name um so yeah it was originally just myself I was just again just putting out information into the into the ether of the internet. And I was working with folks, uh, mostly from like a strength coach standpoint. These people tended to have either, um, some medical conditions they were worried about or were more health focused.

I still had some competitive athletes at the time, but it was rather small. Um, and then it just expanded. We got Dr. Baraki on board. We got, uh, some got uh some physical therapists and chiropractors registered dietitians other strike coaches and kept growing and growing and growing and now you know we've got a ton of clients all over the world that we're working with like a one-on-one standpoint so that's part of the business the other part of the business is actually putting out uh you know educational content a lot of it's free and there's some

stuff that's designed with like online like distance course learning stuff we do live in-person seminars and the idea again is to bring the two worlds together strength conditioning or you could even just say fitness and medicine and improve uh their kind of crosstalk because they're they're almost siloed right the personal trainers the strength coaches think the doctors don't know anything, which in many cases, that's true for just talking about like their fundament fund of knowledge about exercise. That's, that may be true.

And then the medical professionals are like, yeah, well, this person, the personal trainers, you know, may not be the best at actually helping my patients engage in these lifestyle changes. They just are unaware or they're unaware that, you know, exercise can have all these benefits, even though they've been part of these recommendations, these lifestyle recommendations since 2008. You know, that's, that's the most charitable sort of timeline I can get. I'm like, well, they've only been around for the last maybe like 15 years. So if you don't know about them, maybe you went to school before that.

But it's really hard when you look at the actual data on how many physicians even know what the current exercise guidelines are and that they involve resistance training. You see less than 10% of all primary care physicians even know that they exist. And of that 10%, less than half of them are actually recommending exercise to their patients.

And it's like, that's 5%, guys. Like, what the heck? So in any case, it seemed like there was a need there. And yeah, fortunately, it's kind of picked up some steam. And the more we can stay out of online internet arguments, the better it is for us. So we can just put out more content, right? We can put out more content right we can put out more content and i mean i think it'd be difficult to be in the space if we didn't have a person most of the people that work at barbell medicine have a personal interest in being you know

getting really strong or you know physical development in general that'd be difficult just to come at it from like yeah we're doctors and we know about exercise but we're not actually like living it you know and it's not part of our life, part of our DNA, but, but it is. And so that's why I think we all kind of get along. And yeah, maybe, maybe some of the initial success or recognition comes from like, Oh, these are doctors that deadlift over 700 pounds. That's cool. I want to, yeah. And I'm like, well, I wish it could be different in some ways. Cause then you could get more doctors kind of like onboard with the platform,

like helping folks. Right. But, uh, so we'll see, we'll just get, maybe, you know, if we get enough, a big enough and big enough, uh, sample size of other physicians and healthcare professionals that get bit by the strength bug, you know, maybe there's going to be a bunch more, uh, recognizable talent kind of in this, in this sphere, we can spread the, spread the knowledge gains, but, uh, as of right now, it's, it's just us. us so that's that's cool too we'll we'll keep we'll keep uh keep fighting the good fight that's good uh and something that we've talked about people that that have used it and they really um say it's been really valuable for them is i don't know what you call it but it's basically like your pain and rehab

specific um yeah sure yeah and like that they've they've talked about how that just like how insanely valuable that's been to them yeah that the we started offering these like pain and rehab it's basically coaching you know we call it pain rehab consultations coaching the idea was we wanted to offer people uh physical therapy um and this rehabilitative sort of guidelines remotely. Because what would invariably happen is somebody would receive a specific diagnosis. Let's say they had a torn meniscus or even something more like, or less specific than that, they have knee pain, right? And they've had knee pain for weeks or months, maybe even years.

And we could hem and haw about, you know, how we manage pain, this, that, and the other. But when it came down to actually come up with specific recommendations for the individual and work with them over a period of time, it was kind of hard to recommend folks, yeah, just go see your PT. But mainly because there's this disconnect between physical therapists and other professionals in that space at large and like kind of evidence-based guidelines for managing pain particularly in in active uh individuals so we almost felt charged that we had to do it and if i could do anything i would clone our existing pain and rehab staff a couple times over so we could we could work with you know more people but that's uh yeah i think the overall the

feedback i've gotten has been similar to yours has been really really good uh and i i wish we would have started that earlier because i think there's there's still a huge huge need for that and um man that it it's kind of crazy to think about where people could go prior to a lot of these online services being offered, not just by us, but by other, other folks in the space. Like, think about if you got, you hurt your back and you're like, man, I really need some like help here. Well, you'd be, you'd be limited by seeing any PT that happens to live in your geographic area. And that they may not understand you or what you do. It may not be, you know, the best fit for you. And now you're not, you're not limited at all. You know, you can, you can get on the internet and do, you know, kind of pick your, pick your professional, which is, is, is pretty neat. just talk the talk, you know, you, you, you walk the walk, you're, you're coming to a lot of these places from a spot of experience. You know, when you guys, you know, approach someone or when

someone approaches you and you're addressing their knee pain, back pain, or something like, how do you guys come to that? Like differently than just your general PT? Like, cause I'm sure you guys cover a lot of the same stuff in school, but like, how does your approach vary from like your, your run of the mill person you just see in your local area? Sure. Yeah. And it's obviously, it's hard to generalize, uh, just without throwing shade at the, you

know, PT, uh, you know, and I don't want to do that. I look, I've met a lot of great physical therapists and there's obviously some selection bias there. It's like, oh, if your PT happens to be really into lifting and you know, our stuff, like you're probably going to be pretty, pretty, pretty good. You know? And if I've never met you, then the odds of that being true or lower. So, um, yeah, a few, a few like key differences, I would say one, instead of focusing on, you know, just prescriptive movement changes, we really try to focus on educating the client, educating the patient on, you know, why the pain experience rather than it being due to like a specific anatomical or structural cause. And that's the pain generator. And you have to fix that in order to like get better. Because that doesn't seem to be really evidence-based for a lot of non-traumatic

injuries and even sometimes in the case of trauma it's just more complex than that so we try to involve them early on this education thing which you usually don't get uh that's that's fairly different the another difference and this tends to be larger and even magnitude uh happens to be with like how we're modifying exercises and movement in general. A lot of people that come to us tend to be really interested in getting stronger, and in particular, like squat bench, deadlift, press. Again, if you come to barbell medicine and you're a kettlebell king, I don't know how you got here. I'm curious on your search terms, but invariablyably these people are into resistance training and most of them with barbells. And so instead of being like, Oh, you got knee pain,

we've got to do these three inch box step ups, you know, to terminal knee extension or whatever the thing would be with a, you know, TheraBand or pink dumbbell, no offense to the pink dumbbells. We're saying, well, we'll do a tempo squat or tempo pin squat slightly above parallel we're basically trying to find the most threatening movement that's most similar to what you would normally do so that we can kind of cut that curve off and get you back to your desired activity level faster that's the whole point like what

is the point of rehab restore restoreore tolerance and capacity in your selected activities, right? And reduce discomfort while doing them, there's BOSU balls, TheraBands, and light dumbbells. And that's unlikely to be challenging enough or threatening enough for anybody who's done any modicum of resistance training. So that's like part one of that difference. The second part is on the unaffected areas, we're going to continue training as normal. If you've got a lower extremity injury, we want you to bench press, you know, press, uh, do other upper body stuff. So you don't lose any fitness and potentially even improve, uh, your fitness in those areas. Um, and then the, the other part of this is really trying to instill, um, a lot of self-efficacy. It's actually a really terrible business model when you're trying to

get people to be more self-sufficient. And by that, we mean being able to choose their own exercises on the fly because pain ebbs and flows, right? So instead of like needing somebody to tell you what you can and can't do, kind of giving you some constraints and some leeway to like choose your own adventure. And then kind of when you're heavily involved in the people in this process, they tend to need you less and less and less as their confidence builds. And so for our business, it would be great if we just said, yeah, you got to see us, you know, or contact us three times a week for 12 weeks. What we prefer is that we see you once in the beginning, give you some, you know,

initial recommendations, check in with you as needed, you know, some of the heavier in the beginning, lighter at the end, but discharge you from care as soon as possible. And so kind of between the education, the difference in movement, like recommendations, and, you know, really instilling these sort of elements that increase self-efficacy, those are all that tends to be like the biggest difference. And it would be very obvious to anyone who's done a pain and rehab consultation with our team, if they went to a standard PT clinic, that your experience is completely different. You go into a traditional PT clinic, you may get some, you know, stim, they put the electrodes on

you, zap you a little bit, a little ice, a little heat, some range of motion stuff, and then maybe some manual resistance, or if they've got some dumbbells, you might lift that. Or if they have a kettlebell and happen to be again, kettlebell king or queen, you might do some unilateral kettlebell work. And we're more like, okay, skip all that bullshit that doesn't have evidence, right? The stem, the heat, the cold, whatever. Let's get you under a bar if we can. If we can't, all right, we'll use dumbbells or a machine or whatever your preference is or whatever you have access to.

And let's, you know, let's start as aggressively as we can. It doesn't mean we're tolerating like tons of, you know, discomfort while you're moving, but there's no reason to regress somebody further than necessary. And that's, yeah, it's kind of our ethos. And I think the final thing that deserves some discussion

is many people are looking for a diagnosis of like, this is what happened and this is what's wrong with me, right? They're like, my knee hurts because I have a meniscus tear or patellofemoral pain syndrome, or, you know, some, there's some mechanical cause and we typically don't go there unless it changes what we do. And what I mean by that is it's not really, it doesn't really matter what the specific diagnosis is and kind of thinking about perseverating on focusing on that specific diagnosis when it doesn't really change management tends to actually limit people's ability to get better makes them take longer because they think again that there's

something mechanically wrong with them that is limiting their progress and so there's just really no reason to kind of go that deep or like we have to get subsequent imaging we need an MRI or a CT or you know whatever and it's like unless it's going to change what we do, that's not really part of the, not really part of our standard care. And it probably shouldn't be, but in PT clinics and injury rehabs, you know, sort of specialists worldwide, that's, that's kind of standard of care and not really for us. So we're trying to disrupt a little bit, but again, I don't want to pretend that every other, you know, physical therapist or injury specialist out there is bad. That's certainly not the case. We know a lot of great people in the industry, but unfortunately we're still the minority and we prefer that to change. people think physical therapists, I would say most people probably associated with, okay. Or whatever that person might be. I go in, I see a person, they need to physically touch me, examine me, watch me go through things. Um, does, do you find it? Is there like,

is it an extra hurdle, an extra set of challenges doing this online or remotely, or are you able to just as effectively do it as you would in person? Yeah. I mean, there, there really aren't that many cases where you need to like lay hands on the patient to either get a specific diagnosis that would change what you do or like apply some sort of technique that makes them feel better. In general, that's not the case, which is why we're like very light, if any, on any sort of manual therapy sort of recommendations. People, again, if I do an ask me anything on Instagram, or we do a Q&A, whatever, invariably, there's questions about

massage, soft tissue work, you know, lacrosse balls, the foam rolling, whatever, you know, you name it, if you could rub on it, people have asked me about it. whatever you know you you name it if you could rub on it people have asked me about it uh but and and really the crux of it comes down to like what level you know what is the current evidence on that with improving outcomes and if it's not that great or or in many cases there's no difference at all from like the clinical that time exposure to the the professional in the clinic, meaning like time spent talking with the doctor or PT or whoever, then we're not going to recommend it. And so you don't really have to be in person if you're not using that sort of stuff. Like Dr. Ray. So he's a, you know, chiropractor, right?

He went to chiropractic school, he's all the licensure and everything else. And he's like, yeah, I'm not manipulating anybody because the evidence is not great for that. So I don't need to see somebody to not manipulate them. Yeah, the in-person stuff can be more useful if you're having difficulty like building patient rapport online. Sometimes that can be challenging, particularly for younger individuals, like pediatric populations or older individuals where technology is kind of difficult for them. But for most folks, especially now with the pandemic and everything, getting on a Zoom call or Skype or FaceTime is pretty accessible and they're pretty used to it. And you don't really need to put hands on folks to figure out what we're going to do.

Makes sense. Switching gears just a little bit. What do you think of the Barbell Mimison Instagram? So, okay. So there's, I think one of them, they stopped doing it, right? Yeah, I just did a little research this week and it looks like it's been like a month since they've posted maybe or something like that. I assume. So, yeah, everyone initially thought that it was me right and i'm like guys if i want to just blast memes and use

the business name i would just do it from our main account or my personal account it would get more traction and you know whatever so it's not it's not me and then but i do think some of his takes i assume it's i assume as a guy because the idea that a woman would make you know a meme account look yeah maybe maybe uh but i i just i assume it was a guy uh his takes were spicier than ours so on the one hand i was like i felt like i was like man maybe this is like my the the you know my ego or whatever the unfiltered sort of uh thoughts that i might have sometimes and you just blast them and so i was like it was funny to see um and then also also to read the comments occasionally because i'm like oh this is what would have happened if i said this so

maybe it was like a fight club tyler durden where you actually don't know what really was it really is you you just don't yeah yeah you know i've been yeah i've been tired i used to be a lot more tired maybe in the middle of the night i'm just making all these memes why did my phone die overnight what the hell so did that did did uh that creator like have they ever like specifically reached out to you on things? Or is it, to me, it's funny if they haven't. No, so it's funny. I do know, actually, yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, I do know who it was. I'm not going to name them.

But the funniest part was, I think they said something about, it was either they said something about SquatU directly. Yeah. And then somebody had, like, tagged Steffi Cohen in the comments. And somehow they were, like, related like related like tagged in the same post in in any case stephy like slid into their dms thinking it was us uh it was like we should hop on a podcast and to be fair i don't know that stephy is like running her own account or whatever but i just thought it was funny that our you know a meme account of our stuff that's what got of our stuff. That's what got the attention. Yeah, that's what got the attention.

I was like, Jesus Christ, we've been doing it wrong. We should have been doing memes this whole time. Yeah, it's kind of funny. There is something to be said about a good meme. Do you have a particular favorite meme account or anything like that? I suppose that one would be one that you track a little bit. Yeah, so Dr. Nadolski, Spencer Nadolski, he calls himself the meme doctor. I met him back in medical school. He's a licensed physician, obesity specialist.

All of his stuff is memes. I follow him, obviously. Was it functional? Memeology? I like that one. There's this... Oh, man. man what is it's escaping me now it's like it's very powerlifting strongman centric on memes so if you guys named it I would probably know it subpar powerlifting yeah or I get tagged

invariably in these things I'm like damn it I already wasted my day but I think it's fun and I think it's actually interesting that if you were Damn it. I already wasted my day. But I think it's fun, and I think it's actually interesting that if you were in our position, you're trying to convey information that's accessible and interesting and ultimately gets a wide readership, you would probably use memes regularly. I just don't know that i'm creative enough to to like get get like get the memes while they're still hot like me i would probably

make it after they've already gone flat and then people be like okay boomer like damn it i i missed it i missed the window the thing about memes is that you only have to hit like one out of every 20 and people just remember that one hit and then the other the other night oh all your misses yeah all right fair enough fair enough well if we start going like heavy on the memes you know it is the result of this conversation your business advice yeah uh so i'm like pre-genesis of barbell medicine i'm not not even exactly sure, but if, if I remember right, you had some sort of affiliation with starting strength or Ripito or something there. Is that correct? Yes. So, uh, right when I start, when I had a medical school, I had gone to a starting

strength seminar and Wichita fall. So I went to Mecca, you know, my pilgrimage. Uh, and, and, and I, and I think I had been in contact, I'd been on that forum for a little bit, right. Cause I had been coaching people, IRL and teaching them to squat bench deadlift press. And at the time, you know, 2011 ish, 2010 ish. You try to think about like, what is a better text for learning about not only like the generalized movement mechanics, but how to teach them and stuff like that. I mean, nothing else existed, right? That was like, awesome. The only thing we had prior to that was like deep squatter from Dave Tate.

And it's like, Hmm, all right. This thing seems a little bit more refined. And, and, uh, so I was using that anyway. So I went to the starting strength seminar, had been on their forum for a while and rip basically deemed me worthy. Like you can coach you're underweight, you're underweight, you know, triple chili cheeseburger. But, uh, yeah. So, um, I got asked to start working seminars that same year. So shortly thereafter that seminar, uh, that I,

what I first went to and then I ended up taking over their nutrition forum. Oh, they didn't, they had a nutrition forum that at one point was ran by Lyle McDonald. Then they had a fallout with Rip and then it was ran by johnny pain um i don't know if you remember that guy he was the gray skull barbell dude from philadelphia anyway he was he ran their nutrition forum for a little bit and then it'd been like defunct for almost a year and rip was like you got abs do you want to like do this i was like i was like sure yeah i mean i've want to like do this? I was like, sure. Yeah, I've been counseling folks, you know, nutrition

during my strength and conditioning practice. And then now I'm in medical school and learning a lot about this and have a self interest. So yeah, let's do it. So I did that till 2016 is either 16 or 17. And so yeah, during that whole time, we were working with starting strength uh it was like barbell medicine was its own entity at that point for about five years but it was kind of like starting strength adjacent so when people like went to starting strength they'd see barbell medicine and vice versa um and so what happened starting strength started they they were at that

at the time um where this like first little rift kind of got created they were anti-online coaching they're like we're not going to do it you can't do online coaching online programming because you can't see the person in real life and you got to put hands on the client to make them squat better deadlift better whatever so that's all you guys at barbell medicine like do your thing it's programming. And at that point, it was fine. They did, they changed in 2016. They started starting Frank Online Coaching. And at that, that was kind of the beginning of the end because they were like, well, you can either, you know, join SSOC or you could be Barbell Medicine.

I was like, uh, I prefer to stay barbell medicine. It seems like my baby. And it seems like we're kind of different, right? Like we got this more medically minded, trying to bridge this gap. And it seemed like we weren't really competitors outside of like the, you know, maybe a novice trainee who came to barbell medicine instead of starting strength, whatever. That was, that's kind of where it started. And then we, I mean, Mike to share had been coaching me since 2013.

So now I'm four years into RPE, you know, really, and using that kind of heavily and I obviously enjoy it. Believe in it. There's good evidence that it can, it can be used. Not if it's the only tool, but it can be a useful tool. And then, you know, rip kind of came out with all this RPE bullshit, essentially useless for everyone thing. And we're like, oh, wait. Uh, and then, yeah, so that was the kind of spiral out with all this RPE bullshit, essentially useless for everyone thing. And we're like, oh boy.

And then, yeah, so that was, it kind of spiraled to the end. I mean, it ended up being about 50%, probably business related and 50% RPE related, which is wild to even like to think about. But if I'm honest, and I don't know that I've ever spoken about this publicly, and who knows, maybe no one listens this far into the podcast, and this will all be forgotten,

but probably not if I know the internet. Tell them that this is the spot to listen. Yeah, a little timestamp. Yeah, right, right. The thing that was interesting is when we split, so a guy who works for Barlow Medicine now, but also used to work at Starting Strength, Tom Capitelli. We were in New Zealand at the time. And so the time difference was kind of strange. And I remember we were going back and forth on emails with Starting Strength.

And eventually we just said, so this is, they had taken me off the nutrition forum. And we weren't scheduled to work anymore seminars. So it's kind of like we were being a little ostracized from the company and we're like, this doesn't feel good. Are we like done here? And yeah, then the email back was like, yep, I think we're done here. So at the time when we split, yeah, it was kind of weird, but at the split, we thought it was all amicable. Like I didn't dislike them. They didn't dislike us, but it got kind of nasty. It was weird.

It's like, as soon as we split the whole rpe discussion and how it was bullshit escalated and how you know and then that kind of became personal they're like oh well the barbell medicine people they're not coaching you they're just telling you to use rpe like uh what that's it just kind of kind of got strange and and that was our entire like social and professional circle in this space all All of the other coaches, we were all friends, at least I thought. And then as soon as we got kind of like kicked out really or left, nobody would talk to us anymore. And it was weird. It just kind of felt like we had like the scarlet letter on us.

And so, yeah. And invariably like Austin was a starting strength coach. Leah was a starting strength coach. Tom was a starting strength coach. Alan Droll was a starting strength coach leo was a starting strength coach tom was a starting strength coach alan drawl was a starting strength coach and we all we all kind of you know one by one turned our turned over our accreditation because we were like we don't really want to be a part of this if we're you know gonna get that we've spoken poorly of and and this is where we're gonna be treated so. So yeah, that was 2017. And, uh, but, but interestingly at the time, I was a little bummed, you know, about how that all went down. And then I,

it actually probably was the best thing for our business as far as motivation to like, all right, well, cool. Now we really got to step up our game. We need to get on YouTube. We need to start a podcast. We need a newsletter. We need more content. We need to just increase what we're doing and now we're focusing solely on our stuff and i i think i never wanted to be adversarial like oh these guys wait can i say that are you guys pg-13 or are like i don't yeah that's explicit okay i never wanted to be like you know at these guys i hate them and they're all you know jerks or dumb

or anything else like that. It just, you know, and some and sometimes it kind of went that way where we would just get frustrated. And I just, I think we all want the same thing. We want more people to train, right? It's just as far as going about it. I wish that there had been more, I don't know, flexibility as far as like, all right, what are the best ways to get people to train what's like sort of an acceptable level of squish or variance like if is it okay if someone does a high bar squat instead of a low bar squat is it okay if they want to do fours or sixes or eights or tens and not just fives you know and i'm no this is i'm dead i'm dead serious is it okay if a 60 year

old guy who's got a fused ankle squats two inches above parallel, or do you got to fire him because he's not squatting below parallel? And I wish that I was being a little histrionic here, but I'm not. And so it's like a fundamental disagreement. I want everyone to train, and I don't have a set standard where it's like, okay, well, now you're training, and before you were just exercising, you know, what you were doing before is useless. I want more people meeting the physical activity guidelines, specifically the resistance training portion of it by a method or modality that is keeping with their preferences, what they have

access to and something that they'll do for the next, you know, for ideally for life. And I, if it happens to be with a barbell, cool. But if the bar is an inch and a half higher on your back and you, or you don't happen to look down or you have an aversion to sets of five repetitions, that's all fine. I'm going to be completely fine there. Um, and it just, yeah, that wasn't, that wasn't in keeping with the party. And so anyway, in hindsight now, again, it was good to leave, helpful for our brand and development and kind of focusing our efforts. And then subsequently, I'm kind of glad that we got out due to a lot of the comments that have come out of that camp subsequently. And I don't pretend to know everything that's ever gone on over there since we left. But yeah, it'd be very difficult to be associated with that brand at this time,

given all what's going on. And I don't know how plugged in you guys are into that, into that scene, but I get screenshots or you, well, especially used to get screenshots all the time. Like, can you believe that they said this?

And I'm like, I mean, I can believe it, but well, something I would say you know after yeah we follow their stuff we follow along with your stuff we you know we we've you mentioned a lot of people we've had mike t on the show we've had alan thrall on the show we've had you now here we've had rip on the show in the past and we've had a you know a wider group and you know that that's kind of adjacent to that and just kind of being familiar with your stuff now and even listening to you talk it's almost more weird for me to think

there was a time when your guys's um overall visions aligned well enough that oh yeah that there were yeah that it worked uh i guess as well as it it's it did for as long as it did kind of because you mentioned the word flexibility when talking about uh rip and like i think like that word doesn't exist in here you know there you know there's positives and negatives yeah for sure like everyone has pros and cons and stuff but like there's no doubt that there is no flexibility allowed in any of that yeah yeah i think i mean i don't. It's hard to say. You want to be charitable and kind to yourself when you're looking back on decisions you've made throughout your life or how you used to act.

And I think, I mean, I was in 2013, 2014, probably when I had my most prominent role in starting strength. At that time, I was relatively new to the strength conditioning field outside of my own gym. Right. So like being on a larger stage. And so, and now you're associated with starting strength,

even though it started horrible medicine already, but you're, you're kind of trying to toe the line and, and also you're reviewing, I was viewing rip success as well. I thought I was really good at, for lack of a better word, impersonating Rip, adopting some of his mannerisms, some of the lines that he would say, because we were just trying to keep the message kind of tight. I'm being honest. I think I was maybe lacking a little bit of critical analysis, you know, thinking like, well, is this stuff, is this a hundred percent correct? Like, are you, are you okay with staking your reputation on it? Um, because, because in hindsight, yeah, you're right. I think if I had taken a critical eye towards everything that was being said and, and saying, you know, is this the final word here uh i probably there probably been some dissent earlier on and then maybe this whole thing would have happened years

prior uh but yeah it didn't and so uh it is interesting because after the split we got some you know the people who were i guess you know it's like when you break up and you have some friends that like go with your ex and you get some of the friends and it's kind of weird. The friends, the friends that stayed with the starting strength, they're like, so you guys were just bullshitting us before and you didn't believe any of this stuff, or you're just changing your tune now. So you can differentiate yourself and make money. I'm like, well, I see, I see where you're coming from, you know, cause, cause it seems like it's, everything's different now, but I think just you, you grow and evolve as time goes on. And,

you know, part of the reason, a lot of the reasons that we ended up splitting up have to do with just, I, you know, kind of ideology and differences and how we want to approach this. And, uh, I, I don't have a better explanation other than that. You know, it's not like we're changing our tune just to be profitable or just because we split. It's just the reason we split is because we changed our minds. Right. And it's kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of weird.

You got to break up a business just because you change your mind. Like, I hope, I hope I'm thinking differently about stuff in 10 years. True. Right. It's more weird to think like of ideas, not progressing and changing over the course of a decade. That's maybe the scarier part. Yeah.

Well, we all have friends that are like, I'm the same guy, 10 years, same person, never changed. You're like, but a lot of things, we've learned a lot of things in 10 years. You should probably update your priors here. But yeah, I don't harbor ill will towards that. Again, I think some of the personal stuff is more on me and maybe how deeply entrenched I was from a social and professional standpoint in that particular niche. But yeah, things are way better now.

I would love if all of us could be friends and get along and ultimately promote people being more active. But if someone's going to take a hard line on like the low bar back squat, you know, activating more muscle mass or being the ideal squat or five reps being the perfect compromise and rep range. It's like, why are you doing this? Like, what do you just what's the point here? Right. Like there's enough there's enough market share for everyone that you don't have to be that polarizing. You could just put out the good information, run a business, but

you don't have to make these wild ass claims. You don't have to be the liver king of resistance training. Jesus, just say stupid shit the whole time anyway all right true uh yeah so shifting off of starting strength or that that portion of in time this this is kind of a um question that's courtesy of the discord crew that i was alluding to earlier so i don't really know the uh context of this but it's probably worth a laugh at the very least um So what is your favorite strength training template and why is it, why is it five, three, one? Oh, Jesus. Oh man. This is funny. I mean, yeah. So, so one of the last articles, one of the things I was doing at starting strength was writing articles that were markedly different in tone and content than what had previously been published.

For example, there had previously been articles about why squats won't hurt your knees or why a low bar back squat is superior to a high bar back squat, which, cool, that's going to drive clicks, views, whatever. But that I would write articles like the anatomical considerations of the alternating deadlift grip or pressing overhead from an anatomical considerations of the alternating deadlift grip, or like pressing overhead from an anatomical standpoint, or in this case, programming, just analyzing two different

programs, comparing them to each other, and then, you know, try to suss out like, what are some variables that could be better leveraged. And so in this case, I compared Texas method to 531. And like the suitability of either as an intermediate program for those previously coming off of like the novice linear progression. And so I am analyzing, you know, the volume and the average intensity and the exercise selection and this, that and the other. And the conclusion I came to is that neither was really well suited for folks, because all of the important exercise variables were not really tailored to somebody in that cohort, like right off of a novice leader progression. And so that these people, they need a gradual sort of influx of increased volume. They need some auto-regulation,

they need some conditioning, that the exercise selection needs to be specific enough for their goals, all sorts of stuff, right? Like, I i mean just rehash the article the problem is that this article got published the day before wendler's newest version at the time of 531 was published and so apparently the story goes that wendler called rip and basically you know shoot him out a little bit and rip was like hey man sorry i didn't know like who the fuck knows when the next five three one you know right after after dark specials gonna come out so anyway yeah right yeah sorry you missed that uh and so they got into it and then invariably people who are five through like die hard five through one fans were like this feigenbaum guy he's full of shit and you know bring out pitchforks so i

got caught wind that on power our power lifting people were like reviewing my article and you know basically and not in a kind or even academic way like if you do think if you have an academic discussion right like not everything's going to be like roses and rainbows, but at least, you know, people are going to bring up points, provide evidence, counter arguments. That's usually how this goes.

And so I got wind of this. I got on there and I was basically trying to talk to these folks and kind of support my position. And I felt like I was doing an adequate job, but things invariably spiraled out of control and the attacks became personal. And, uh, I, I'll be honest, I don't think I was the kindest person. So I'm like, who are you guys to be arguing with me? Like, because, because it's okay to disagree, right? It's okay to even to disagree with a professional, uh, or an expert or, you know, somebody with a lot of experience in the space, even if you're not going to call them an expert, it's okay to disagree, but like bring your receipts. So like, why are you disagreeing and where are you getting that from? But it wasn't like that. It was like, no, no, no. Cause five, three, one works all the time. Or I used five

through one or my cousin used five through one. I'm like, dude, nobody uses five, three, one at the highest level. No one's doing the shit. Wendler didn't use five, three, one. Right. And then like, and then people are like, well, that's not actually 531. I'm like, well, then what is 531? Because when it was defined by the person who made the damn program, that's the definition I use. And if you can't define it, then it's not a thing, right? If you can't tell me what 531 is, then 531 is everything. And then therefore, the term is meaningless.

So anyway, that's that's that's the that's like the where this started so then shortly thereafter instagram lives became a thing and i started doing instagram lives almost every day kind of like an early adopter there because i thought it was cool people would ask questions whatever you answer them and then the whole thing disappears into the ether uh every day five through one questions and not from people from the reddit from i got i got kicked out of our powerlifting that's true i got kicked out of our powerlifting they were like no we don't want this guy but people would be like what are your thoughts on five three one every i mean it became like a meme thing people were like would would regularly post don't ask them

about foam rolling don't ask them about five three one yeah we've heard the answer a thousand times. Um, anyway, so that was 2016 ish. Uh, my, what, at that point we had no templates available like for sale and, but people keep asking me like, well, how would you design a template? How would you design a program or whatever? And so I started putting some of these out. And, um, so all of the templates, uh, are very careful to not resemble anything like five through one, because I do not want that question. Uh, like, Hey, Hey, this looks a lot like five through one. Um, and ultimately now, like the way where I've come like full circle, like, look, if someone wants to do five through one to meet the resistance training portion of the physical

activity guidelines, and that's their preference, they like that structure, whatever, great. Continue on, you're fine. But if someone's asking me, is 5-3-1, that structure, the nuts and bolts, the core of 5-3-1, which is the main lift programming and how it starts with 5 and an AMRAP, 3s the next week and an AMRAP, 1s and an AMRAP,rees the next week and an AMRAP ones and an AMRAP, you know, and then a deload. If someone's asking me if that is like ideal for strength, hypertrophy or, and or cardiorespiratory endurance, like, no,

it's not ideal for any of that stuff. It's not even a good blend for any of that stuff. So it's like, why would you start developing a template from that? And that's, that's the honest answer. And people are going to say, well, I've been on five through one for years.. Now can you tell me it's bad? I'm like, if you've been on something for years and it's working for you, why do you care what I have to say about it? True. Seriously.

But if it's not working, like maybe, maybe there's some changes. So, yeah, 531 used to be like a bugaboo because everyone would ask about it. And now, yeah, now it's interesting because I think – when's the last time you guys trained in a commercial gym? I assume you guys trained in like a cool gym. Yeah, we don't. I mean, we started ours six, seven years ago. So it's been quite a, we're fairly removed from it. It's almost like a foreign concept when you actually see one now.

Like, yeah, that is a thing. Yeah, I was in Scottsdale, not this past weekend, but the weekend before for the waste management open. And I ended up going to train at a commercial gym. It was like a hybrid commercial gym because they have platforms, I guess. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, there was an elite FTS bench somewhere. I was like, how did this get in here? Otherwise, lots of mirrors, lots of college students, and lots of cutoffs with nipples showing.

I thought we... Yeah, we don't encounter any of that. So it gets weird to think that people are still dealing with that on a regular basis. 100%. I remember looking around and I was like, I feel like that guy's doing 5-3-1. I can feel it.

I can feel it. It's almost like a meme now, right? If you try to think of your worst encounter you could potentially have in a commercial gym it would be like you're trying to find a squat rack but there's only one squat rack and this guy is doing you know his amrap set of five five three one and then he recognizes you and then wants to talk about his program or something it would be something that yeah yeah something to that effect so anyway that's probably

more than you guys want to know about five-3-1, but that's what happened. I assume... That's good. There'll be some people very happy that we got to talk about that. Yeah, fair enough. Okay, we've got this little game. We play with everyone, Jordan, overrated or underrated, and we've got a special Dr. Jordan Feigenbaum

set of topics handpicked for you. And we'll fire them off to you. It's just your job to decide if each one's overrated or underrated. You have to remember though, you can't ride the line on any of them. You have to definitively come up with an answer whether each one is overrated or underrated.

You have your druthers to elaborate as much or as little on each one. If you're ready to play, we'll get into it. Let's do it. Overrated or underrated nuance overrated for sure i don't even i don't even know i started saying it again it was like instagram live like early instagram live i i i started saying it and it became like a like a like a tick i was like why am i saying this all the time it's like i can't stop

and then and then it became a thing where everyone would like see somebody else use the word nuance. I would get tagged or they would like be reading something. They would take a picture of it and send it to me. Like, see, this word exists. I'm like, I know this word exists. I don't know. It was like a three week period where it became like every fourth word for me. So yeah, overrated. You guys can move past that. are you at this point are you like if does it ever come when you're you're speaking and you you come to something you feel like there's a really appropriate time to use the word nuance do you find yourself avoiding using it now at this point yes unless i'm doing it for like yeah but unless it's for like comedic comedic value and so like we'll be doing like a live live seminar. And I'll be searching for a word.

I can't find another word. And I'm like, here we go. I look into the crowd and I say nuance. And everyone's like, yeah, you did the thing. It's like a drinking game. I'm like, oh, man. I'm a one-trick pony. It's terrible.

So overrated for sure then on that. Overrated, yep. Overrated or underrated two-stroke dirt bikes? Ooh, underrated. Yeah, so if you guys don't know this about me, I started my... I mean, how I got into resistance training was I used to race dirt bikes.

Now I just picked up another one and getting back into it. But I was racing dirt bikes uh i had just gotten back from loretta lens which is like the national amateur championship uh i did okay there i got 18th out of the 42 people that were there and like thousand people trying to qualify that's a flex i know but it's fun to get background in any case the next the next race i got landed on dislocated my, couldn't walk for nearly three months. And then part of my rehab, the home PT came and like, I was sitting on the couch and she

was like, stand up. I'm like, all right, cool. And then sit down, did it. And she's like, stand up again. And she was like, all right. She's like, you need to do this. I was like, squats. So anyway, that's how I got into resistance training.

It's like, I was like, oh, I'll just go to the gym and start working out. That's how I like got strong enough to start walking again and that's how i got bit by the strength training bug because i was like this is like a lot of fun chicks are gonna love this it turns out it's just guys it's yeah it's just dudes yeah um but in any case at the time all all the bikes were two-strokes. So this was like 2003. The four-stroke had just come onto the scene, but all my race bikes were two-strokes. And then when I came back to racing after college, everything's four-stroke. And so now I personally currently have a Husqvarna 2022, Husqvarna 450 that's a four-stroke.

But I'm on the lookout to get into vintage racing. I want to pick up a 96 Honda CR 250 two-stroke. I want a Jeremy McGrath replica so I can go do some of these Evo vintage races. But the point is, if you're only slightly curious into dirt bikes, motorcycles, motocross, two-stroke is like classic. It's like a classic, nostalgic kind of vibe. Classic, nostalgic kind of bike. You know, when you hear the motorcycle noises for like dubbed over movies, you hear ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring. It sounds like a weed whacker, right? Yeah, no, it's great.

Four strokes. Look, they're fun. They're easier to ride. I get it. They're more powerful, torquey. I don't care. I want the near-death experience. And yeah, two strokes.

So underrated. Most people don't ride them right now. I wish they would make a comeback, but I don't see that happening. Do any of the big companies make any new two-stroke motorcycles? Yamaha and KTM. KTM

now has two other brands that are basically the same motorcycles, but in different color plastic so they husqvarna and gas gas are both basically their ktms in different colors uh they both they all make two strokes so yamaha ktm gas gas husqvarna makes new two strokes none of the other manufacturers do however so uh they basically few, got pushed out of pro racing for a few reasons. One, the pro racing rules made the fuel rule where you couldn't use leaded fuel anymore. It's only unleaded. So that really brought down the power of the two strokes.

Secondly, the pro rules give four strokes double the displacement of engine size that two strokes have. So previously it was a 125 CC and 250 CC classes. And then the four strokes could be 250 CC and 450 CC sizes. And so you're thinking like, Oh, well you two stroke or four stroke double displacement. Uh, yeah,

that makes sense. But the horsepower difference is insane. It's insane. So two strokes dead in pro racing and because it's dead in pro racing the manufacturers really don't want to invest a lot in this that makes sense my one uh little anecdote on that is i had when i was about 20 i had bought a kx 125 which is a two-stroke uh kawasaki and i'm not particularly agile or particularly small i'm not small either. You know,

at the time I was probably six, three, two 50 or something like that. And Oh God, I don't want 25 Jesus. Yeah. And I, um,

we took it out to the, like our local little track and like the first jump, but the first significant jump of any significance I went off, I cased the jump and like smashed my knee into the handlebars and, you know, like a fair contusion there. i was like yep i'm selling this i already can't picture doing any of this yeah like i don't yeah like this sounds made up to me that and then like i was constantly fouling plugs on it you know there's the two-stroke uh it's it's just it's not as simple it's i don't know maybe it's more simplistic maybe it's as simple. It's, I don't know, maybe it's more simplistic, maybe it's less,

but like there's you know, the maintenance of it is there's something to be said about how easy maintenance can be on a four, four stroke too. But after I cased that jump and smashed my knee, I was like, this is not for me. I don't know why I'm doing this to begin with. Right. Right. Yeah. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Yeah. But, but I will. Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. Oh, well, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Yeah. But I will... Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. Oh, well, yeah.

So your listeners are probably like, dude, you guys are really talking dirt bikes. It's like, look, man, I live for this stuff. So invariably, now that I've gotten in a power lift,

I've been in power lifting for a while, people primarily on the internet know me as a lifter, doctor, dude. They're like, are you sure that motorcycle is a good idea?

I'm like, no, dude, it is a terrible idea. But I live, I was raised in this. I live for this stuff. I know all the pros.

I know what their sponsors are. I've been following the series for as long as I've been alive. And like all this, like all of the models going back, you know, since basically I was born, I got all the, I have stacks of magazines in print, like magazines dating back to the mid nineties on dirt bikes. Like I'm a avid, avid enthusiast. And so that's why I love it so much. I'm like, yes, the risks of riding dirt bikes from an injury perspective are substantially higher than literally anything else, especially like not riding dirt bikes, but it's like, but, but like, I'm not just waiting to die. Right. Like I, I love, it brings me great joy.

Uh, and so, you know, if you're thinking about maybe commenting on my Instagram about how I should stop riding dirt bikes the next time I get injured. Just know that it's really important to me. Maybe don't say that. It's fine. Talking about the danger of it, just some other limited experience, like talking about the 250 two-stroke or now the

450 common four-stroke, for anyone that hasn't ridden dirt bikes, those are literally like hell on wheels. Some of the scariest crap you especially if you're not like accustomed to it it is insane what those do actually yeah i um i saw it out this is probably it's three weeks ago actually today uh so southern california is like the mecca for dirt bikes there's like all the cool tracks all the pros ride out here to practice during the week even though if they're like you know racing on the weekend this is where they practice you get to see all the big names and all the yeah like i said all the cool tracks are here and now i live

here and i'm like oh man i can finally live out my childhood dreams it's like all i needed like the jinko pants and the etnies to like really tie everything together so in any case i'm out at lake elsinore uh i'm riding around and, um, my dad used to race professionally back in the seventies. And then he was a mechanic at factory Kawasaki for their race team. So he's been, you know, yeah, go figure. I took after my dad, like I was, we were in this together. So in any case, I was out there riding the main track. There were a bunch of, there was a bunch of pros out there and they were like, you know, kicking the crap out of me. Cause now I'm 40 pounds too heavy to be good

at motocross and I haven't been on the bike you know it's been some years so anyway I pull over my dad's like what are you doing dude I'm like what do you mean he's like you're going really slow you just I don't know like why are we here and I'm like damn it's like Leonard just hitting me

you know I'm like I'm a grown ass I know I'm a grown ass man. I don't need to take this. But what really happened is like the younger, the kid in me was like, I'm going to show my dad that I'm good. And so I, I go out there full send, like, you know, again, not smart, not riding within my current capability, but maybe where I, you, where I used to be. I overjumped this jump, land in a mud hole, bike completely stops.

I flip over. I dislocate my shoulder. I overjumped this jump, land in a mud hole, bike completely stops. I flip over, I dislocate my shoulder. I get up, I get up, I see the bike in mud. My shoulder is dislocated anteriorly. And I'm like, nobody's around me. It's at least a 15 or 20 minute walk back to the truck. The bike's stuck in mud. My shoulder really hurts. I got to pop this thing back in right now. So I put it back in, I picked the bike up, ride it over my dad. And he goes, he goes, Oh, what the fuck did you just do? And I was like, this is your fault. You did this, but yeah, that was on a new four 50, right. Like brand new. And these things, you know, when I invariably people were asking me like, well, how fast were you going? I'm like,

I mean, I don't know, like 30 miles an hour tops 25 it's not the speed of velocity but like you're going right like a car crash it's at the i came down from maybe two and a half stories in the air and i and then instead of like having a smooth arc going forward i just like stopped and then an object in motion continues in motion and that was me flying through the air into the hard terra firma. You were 230, 240 riding a 125 and I'm 210 right now and when I was racing I was 160,

170 pounds. You would think that extra padding is useful. It really just gets in the way. You're really just more inertia. Right, right. Yeah. That's good. Overrated or underrated?

Vitamin D supplementation. Jesus. Overrated. Yeah. But yeah, this is like become, this is Austin's bugaboo right now because everyone, well, and this isn't a new development, but vitamin D has been recommended by various pseudoscience promoters all over the internet and even in press for a long time. It's been discovered.

The problem is not that there's no data showing a correlation between vitamin D levels and health outcomes or health trajectory. That data is robust. And what I mean by that in very simple terms is that there are plenty of studies, thousands, if not tens of thousands of studies showing that individuals with lower levels of vitamin D in their blood tend to have more disease, meaning that if you were looking for a relationship between chronic kidney disease and low vitamin D levels, you can find that. If you were looking for a relationship between obesity and low vitamin

D levels, you're going to find that. Cancer and low vitamin D levels, you're going to find that. Heart disease, low vitamin D levels, you're finding all of that. The real problem is that correcting the vitamin D level by a supplementation does not change the health trajectory. by a supplementation does not change the health trajectory. So even though you've shored up the lab value of low vitamin D, it does not affect heart disease risk, does not affect obesity, does not affect cancer risk, you know, name a disease doesn't affect it, except for a very small select few, one being maybe osteoporosis and then chronic kidney disease or other diseases where you're not actually able to make any vitamin D. So the takeaway here is that just because things are correlated doesn't mean that they're causative. Just because things are

correlated doesn't mean that they're causative. And in fact, there's a really cool website. I may DM this to you, Tanner, because I just, I had, I could not stop laughing, but it just shows all these wild correlations. And if, if you took statistics a long time ago, this is your brief refresh. The R value is effectively like how closely things are related. If it's one, there's a perfect correlation, right? A perfectly positive correlation. And if it's negative ones, a perfect negative correlation. And if it's zero, there's a perfect correlation, right? A perfectly positive correlation. And if it's negative ones, a perfect negative correlation. And if it's zero, there's no correlation.

So in any case, the per capita consumption of cheese correlates with the total revenue generated by golf courses and has an R value of 0.9899999. And it's like, what? There's all these websites yeah or all these all these correlations rather that are just wild there's a lot of some of them are like uh nicholas cage films and like death by drowning and it's like just weird that are almost perfectly correlated almost perfectly correlated but obviously not causative And so just if people want like a bigger background in this vitamin D thing, it looks like vitamin D levels are basically a surrogate marker for like health status, in particular inflammatory status. So most diseases have some level of inflammation that's kind of causing them or at least a result of the disease process itself.

And that actually tends to lower vitamin D levels. And so when you get a low vitamin D level, all that saying to me as a physician is that health, there may be some health issues either under like underlying or, or, you know, you have an existing diagnosis that's causing this low vitamin D level. It's not something that we can fix by supplementing vitamin D rather, we need to actually address the root cause to the extent that it's treatable or manageable. And so if you look at it through that lens, then you're like, well, yeah, of course, fixing the vitamin D level isn't going to do anything because you're not treating the cause. It's like, yep, you just nailed it. You just literally summarized thousands and thousands of vitamin D papers. And now you can

rest peacefully without your vitamin D supplement. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Overrated. Okay.

Market. Market. Yeah. This is our next one's our last one. And the last one's always the most important. It's kind of worth all the marbles. So overrated or underrated golf carts. Ooh.

Yeah. I'll also say overrated. Okay. golf carts? Ooh. Yeah. I'll also say overrated. Okay. And now, and now we get to bring some, wait for it. Nuance to this discussion. Okay. So,

so, okay. Yeah. Bingo. Yeah. Right. It's drinking game. If I can bomb bingo.

So, so golf is one way where that people like to spend their leisure time and it can be useful for meeting the current physical activity guidelines. Ideally, if you're drinking a bunch or doing recreational drugs on the golf course, it probably doesn't count. Count us out then. It counts double. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Count us out then.

I think it counts double. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. So people who take a cart on average will take somewhere between 5,000, 6,000 steps playing 18 holes. Whereas people who will walk a course, obviously this is depending on the topography of the golf course and the length of the golf course. I would also say highly dependent on the skill of the golfer too. True. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. Where you're hitting it, right. You just hit it straight every time it's going to be less. Um, but on average, it's on average, it's somewhere in that, uh, 14,000 to 16,000 steps, uh, sort of range. So taking a golf cart, isn't, you're not getting no activity, but you're getting substantially less than if you were walking. And so I think walking can be obviously a very useful form of physical activity if you're on a golf course, especially if you're carrying a bag, because again, that's like walking with load. And so if you're wondering like, oh, I wonder how much more energy you're using. There's this, it's called the MET compendium chart of physical activities.

They update this like every 15 to 20 years. Basically, it's a collection of all the different physical activities that you can imagine and how much energy it uses for you to do it. And it's oddly specific, oddly specific. It's like walking on flat surface at 3.5 miles per hour carrying a 15 pound pack and you're like no that's not so weird and then it's like walking backwards uphill carrying a 40 pound pack on your back on the front there's there's sexual positions in there and you're like okay again who's measuring this why is this in here why why can't i click out of the screen it's so crazy um so yeah it can be a very useful like uh an accessible way um to engage in um some physical activity to help meet the guidelines and so i think

if you can walk and you can't you know if that's something that you can do i 10 out of 10 would recommend it and my pet peeve here is that there are many golf courses that i've been to some of the nicer ones that will not let you walk because they're afraid it's going to take slow pace of play. I understand that the average golfer well, this is a whole other point, but it's the last question and I'm your guest and you can edit this out if you want. You have your druthers, that's right.

guest and uh you you can edit this out if you want you have your druthers that's right so uh people will ask very frequently like oh i want to exercise for golf like what do i do and i'm like well the general my general recommendation would be like just start exercising and meeting the physical activity guidelines using the broad variety of different exercises that train all the major muscle groups through a fairly wide range of motion using a variety of rep schemes uh movement patterns etc that's auto-regulated and they're like that seems like the same prescription you would give to like a new trainee i'm exactly right because most of the people who play golf are under trained and under active so we don't need like this highly specific like golf training program right because most people don't exercise which you know ergo most

golfers don't exercise so if i was like a superintendent or like a starter or whatever and i had a long golf course so really long yardage with a lot of hills or whatever and all these you know out of shape or under trained people were like oh i want to walk you're like bro we've got legitimately a tee time every 12 minutes there's no way you're gonna be able to keep this pace up. And so that kind of makes sense to me from like the logistical standpoint of the golf course. But me personally, pisses me off. I was at in Hawaii, at Kapalua, which is on Maui. And this course is like Jurassic Park meets golf, like huge hills, huge, like wild grasses, sick ocean views with like, i assume what are volcanoes in the

background probably and i was like this is going to be excellent to walk i'm psyched pga tour players do it because they play a tournament there so surely i can walk and the guy's like absolutely not there's no way you can walk this and i'm like god look at me all right i'm gonna be i'm gonna be fine he goes yeah you'll be fine but the problem is other people are going to want to start walking and they're not you. And I'm like, man, I appreciate the hype. I understand what you're talking about, but I appreciate the hype. Thank you so much. So yeah, they go, I understand that, you know, having a golf cart is convenient. You're going to carry a bunch of stuff, especially if you're drinking with your buddies and that's what you use golf for. That's fine. Just meet your physical activity guidelines. Yep. In another manner, have fun, do your thing. But if, you know,

you're using golf as like your GPP or conditioning or just, you know, general physical activity, take the damn cart. You're going to get almost three times the number of steps. You're going to be carrying a bag. So it's like, you know, it's basically strong man endurance. So it's like, you know, it's basically strong man endurance. Do your thing. Plus, you know, if you happen to hit the ball off the planet, you don't have to do the ride of shame across the fairway. You just walk straight to your ball. Yeah, that's my rant.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. But overrated golf carts, fuck them. I don't want them. Good news. Looks like you passed overrated underrated. It is a pass fail course and you pass. So that's excellent news. I'd like to

thank everybody at your discord channel correctly, correctly predicting how to answer and asking the good questions. That sounds like a good crew. Yeah, it is. It is no good. That was really good. We understand. Is it right that you're going to be at the Arnold Sports Festival in Columbus, Ohio here in about a week?

Next week. Yeah, I'll be there. Claire Barbell Medicine, a.k.a. Claire's Eye. She's lifting the Grand Prix. So chance to, I think, the purse there for the women. The winner gets $5,000. So we're going to be battling for that cash. Leah Lutz is also competing Friday at the Masters.

They have some name for it. I'm just going to call it the Masters Throwdown, but it might be like the Masters Challenge or Classic. Showdown or... Yeah. It's never a polite term. The Masters Potluck.

Masters Potluck. That's what i want to show up to where's there gonna be snacks are you guys gonna be there yeah we'll we'll have a booth there and uh we're somewhat chained to it but if you uh ever get the opportunity please stop by and we'll uh we'd like to meet in person are you guys gonna have miller or what's the deal like you guys do you bring refreshments? How does that work? It depends on what their policy how closely they are at guarding the coolers through the entrance.

Sometimes they're kind of just, oh, cooler, we don't care. And other times they go, oh, we got to look inside that. It's weird because they're like, there's going to be people just giving away toxic levels of energy drinks, tainted supplements.

You know, you know. People just walk through there and just like take one after the other too. It's just like no holes barred. Anabolic adjacent materials that are worried about us sipping some Rocky Top. Come on, man.

Let's get it together arnold now it'll be fun yeah i'll come by and say and say hello unless unless jim wendler is there in which case i will not be sure it is in ohio although based on the not i don't know jim know that much about him but i'm guessing it's probably not his favorite place to go. Anyways, if I had, I would assume not. Yeah. I, yeah,

I see. And we'd, we'd get over it. We just talked motorcycles. I think after the initial, like, Hey man, aren't you that, that guy?

I'm like, it was a weird time for me, man. We're going to, we're trying to get rip and a gym there at the same time. And when we do, we'll, we'll call you over.

Fuck. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, we'll call you over. Fuck yeah, I'm in. I'm in, yeah. Interpersonal skills in our team, man. Terrible. That makes me really excited.

It was actually just, the booth was just a long con to orchestrate this meeting. Yeah, next year it stays, all my exes are going to be there too. I was like, come on, guys. Give me a break, man. It feels like you guys were up to something here right right yeah it smells fishy no no that was great we were excited

to get you on what if uh you know i mean probably people just google barbell medicine but where where do people find out more if they uh need to do that yeah Do the website, barbellmedicine.com. That's where all our content is and any of our coaching services, uh, or templates, supplements, apparel, all that stuff is there. We also have a YouTube channel, barbell medicine, uh, Instagram, all of the barbell medicine crew is basically underscore barbell medicine after their name. So mine is Jordan underscore barbell medicine, Austin underscore Barbell Medicine, et cetera. And then we have a main account, which is just Barbell underscore Medicine because I couldn't figure out how,

like, should it be a hyphen or should it be like a period? Yeah, I know. I have regrets. But yeah, I know. You know, the most common question I get about Barbell Medicine, like what if I wear a Barbell Medicine shirt

is do you know Alan thrall? Yeah. Yeah. He's like, you know, he's associated with barbell medicine. Like, Oh yeah,

it's crazy, man. Thanks for slapping me in my face. Right. Yeah. I'm just, yeah, I'm just going to go over here and cry now.

No, no, thanks. and a pod podcast too right i mean you pump out oh yeah and i a really good podcast too i think you probably have quite a few listeners i would assume yeah yeah no the podcast is doing well yeah we try to again we're just bringing uh strength conditioning to modern medicine and vice versa and we have some good guests and uh try to really uh go deep on things we think will be both entertaining and informative. So, yep, anywhere that there's like social media or like the ability to like post information, you search Marble Medicine, we're probably there.

And I really appreciate you guys having me on, man. This was real fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. Good stuff. We'll see you soon then. Sure. Thanks. All right.

Thanks, Jordan. Thanks, Jordan. Tommy? stuff we'll see you soon then sure thanks all right thanks jordan he got those cool beans got the double cool beans didn't he cool beans well that was good that was fun yep and we got into we got to go into the weeds on all the controversial stuff all the all the inside deets on it yep oh yeah the arnold's coming quick um i suppose would you say we're really deep into our old prep right now well so this will come out on the 28th and we'll be leaving three days after that i mean this is arnold week for people listening to this yeah but we're gonna and we're gonna record one more episode here prior to us leaving to the arnold so i don't know in that episode maybe we'll talk about the arnold

a little bit more oh yeah right right maybe maybe we should because we are actually gonna record one in a couple days right right and we should spare ourselves then yeah maybe we won't talk about something to talk about right right maybe we'll do a q a for that one this next next episode might be a q a here that's a good idea and then we talked about it we're probably going to record one on the way home from the arnold road trip episode so it'll be fun to work out the logistics of um you know doing that we haven't done that for a long time it's certainly yeah but i think you brought up a good point we'll be all hyped and excited uh it's just so easy to talk about stuff well essentially we'll be in the vehicle having that conversation for 20 hours you might as well just might as well turn the camera on and read a couple ads while we're at it.

Right. Especially while it's also fresh in our mind. Yeah. It makes it easier that way. So that'll for sure be cool beans. Was there anything else this week? I don't know if you caught Jeopardy, Tanner. Oh.

But there was a little bit of a geographical highlight on there. Actually, it's funny. On Facebook, you tagged Mastanomics on Instagram of that. So I shared that to our Instagram story. bit of a geographical highlight on there actually it's funny on facebook i you know you should you tagged massonomics on instagram of that so i shared that to our instagram story and i usually check facebook like once a day or something like that or not frequently but i do check it periodically and it's funny like i scrolled through and like the first like five things were people sharing the jeopardy yeah it was it was funny how it worked for us because we turned the TV on and I wasn't really

paying attention. I turned the TV on and my wife just goes, they just said Aberdeen. What? I kind of wasn't really paying attention still. I'm like, what? She's like, rewind it, rewind it. And we go back and yeah, what was it? This is one of

five. What even was the question now our aberdeen is one of five cities with a population of over 20 000 in this midwestern state yeah yeah yeah that's what it was the guy buzzed in right away and he said west and i'm like no he's not gonna do it western northeast south but now he said west virginia which really last time i checked it wasn't a midwestern state right no and actually there's been continued debate through the discord in various places about south dakota's position in midwestern you know this has been something we've revisited several times and a lot of people would say it's in the great plains region yeah rather than Midwest.

That's not really a region, though, that I'm familiar with. It's such a weird thing because people divide it. I saw a map that was divided into 30 different regions. The map I'm familiar with, or the one in my head, is maybe the most broad. You have the Northeast, the East Coast, the South, the Southwest, the east coast yeah the south the southwest the west coast the northwest and the midwest right and maybe even like the rocky mountain area right like that to me that's yeah that's the regions right there but what even even people that want to debate that we're not midwest we're great plains a lot of them like the map i saw today

that someone posted the the Great Plains actually wasn't all of South Dakota. Yeah, because it doesn't work. You can't, Western South Dakota, part of it is the Great Plains, but there's whole parts of it that you're like,

if this is the Great Plains, this makes no sense. Exactly. And like, my point being, most of them that I see still puts Western Northeast, South Dakota in the Midwest.

Yeah. You know, it's still. It's as, like, know we're gonna we're gonna live this in a week but the drive from aberdeen to ohio almost feels like you went nowhere right because the only thing that changes is there's a few more trees yeah and slight slightly bigger hills but if you do just go west of us three hours it it starts to change dramatically. Oh, yeah, it does change very drastically, yeah. But, yeah, that trip of like 18 hours, it almost doesn't change.

I mean, when we went to Kansas City for that thing, I hadn't been down that way in a long time, and the only thing that changes, you have a few more trees and some rolling hills. Do you think we'll come across any red robins on our trip or not? I'm going to keep an eye out. We'll find out.

We'll find out. To be continued. That one's not done yet. You know what else isn't done yet? What? Spud Inc. They're a sponsor of this show. I wanted to tell you specifically about one of their products.

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that supports and warms your joints while enabling you to overload your squat and deadlift safely without risk to your hips and if you're just learning the geared squat the gateway briefs can give you an easier transition than traditional briefs they got several sizing that accommodates pretty much anyone as there again i was talking about the single ply they do also have the double ply i've worn these before i would describe them if you've the single plot you can be honest you're wearing them right now i never take them off that's how comfortable they are i like my ball region to be constantly sweaty under extreme pressure yes pressure and sweat

for extended periods of time i don't want my balls i find it smells really good when i take them off eventually my balls are breathing i'm not happy no this single ply ones uh if anyone's ever worn the rebound warm pants it's a step above that but not that far beyond that it you know if i would say it doesn't feel like you're where you know when you watch the guys uh squat it's more like a hot pant than a warm pant? There you go. That's the next step, right? But it's not like where all of a sudden you magically can lift a thousand pounds. No, no, no.

But it does feel good. And for someone that's maybe experiencing some pain, maybe it's something that helps them through that. I don't know. Good product, though. Thank you, Spud Inc. I want to tell you about another good product, Tanner. And that is the texas power bar

i love it buddy caps first started lifting weights in the late 60s and began power lifting in the mid 70s at the time he was working for image barbell building gym equipment around 1976 a local machine shop started making olympic bars for them calling it the image bar in 1977 image barbell became champion barbell it was then that buddy started looking at the bars with an intent of changing them for the better in 1979 buddy bought his first laid to begin addressing the known issues in 1980 his passion drive and purpose now had a greater mission buddy set out on his own to make what he believed was the greatest bar he'd ever seen and trained with and the texas power bar was born it was strong as a house with the best nerling and was maintenance free hundreds of state national

international and world power lifting records have been and continue to be set and broken on the texas power bar to learn more about texas power bars and buy one of their legendary bars visit texaspowerbars.com we had a new. Someone signed up to become a supporting member right while we were recording tonight. So thank you. Thank you. Big Noah for signing up. As long as you're fresh in my mind.

Thank you for everyone else that has signed up this month. Big month for supporting members. Great month for supporting members. Just when you think things can't get any more active, they get more. It is a really active community. I don't know if we talked about that earlier. It really is.

Also, what else has been active as our sales of the Lift Shorts 3. Make sure to get a pair. If you've been on the fence, jump off there. Jump into the deep end. And also, the Natural for Life tee has been selling like hotcakes. Good chance. Your size might not have any inside.

We don't have many of those left. And then also the logo, Block Tee, business in front, party in the back. We've still got that in most sizes also, so jump on that too. And then otherwise, we're taking everything else to the Arnold, so if we run out of stuff for a while. Yeah, inventory starting pretty soon here. It could be looking pretty low until we get back. Yep.

And depending on how the Arnold goes, it might even be low after we get back. Fingers crossed, am I right? Wipe that sucker out. Knock on wood. Yeah. Do we have anything else today? I think that's probably everything. Should we wrap it up and put a bow on it?

I think we might as well. All right. Tommy, where do they find you at? You can find me at Tomahawk underscore D. You can follow me at Tanner underscore Bear. Just make sure to follow Masonomics at Masonomics. See you. underscore bear just to make sure to follow massonomics at massonomics