Massenomics Podcast - Ep.132: Proposed IPF Rule Changes

Episode Date: October 15, 2018

What is up with these proposed rule changes for the IPF? Some could make some sense, and others seem ridiculous. There's probably a good chance most would never happen, but it's still fun to dream.

Welcome to Massanomics, the world's strongest podcast. Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Massanomics. Make sure you go visit massanomics.com. There you'll find the rest of our powerful content. While you're there, check out our store and buy yourself some of that sweet Massanomics gear. Welcome, everyone, to episode 132 of the Mastinomics podcast. Your good old hosts are here again. I'm here, Tanner, and Tommy, you're here?

I am very much here. All right, we're back again. Do you smell anything in here today? Is this a rock segue? Yes, do you smell what he's cooking? I can only imagine. No, what i'm smelling is kaz coffee is that what that's yeah and that's just tickling my little nose right now we got this

kaz coffee before the last episode and it sat over here to the side and i uh we we got too caught up in the moment so we didn't get to discuss this i forgot to then but so we will now and um really though talking about the smell of it like it smells so good it does like if you like the smell of coffee yeah you're already gonna like kaz coffee the smell of it is so good though and and before you even get to the smell, the packaging is pretty cool too. Yes, the packaging is very cool. So Kaz sent us this to try it out. And one funny story about this, I might have told you this. I think I did. I can't remember.

But Kale Beck had posted on his Instagram story a picture that he had Kaz coffee. And I had literally just gone to my mailbox and got mine out of the mailbox. And I sent him a picture and said, hey, twins. And he said something, and then he eventually said, did you ever think in your life that Bill Kazmaier would send you some coffee in the mail? Which is a real, like, of all the things he could ever send you, like, yeah, he's going to send me coffee. Yeah. And then when just reading those words and looking at them written out, it just made

me laugh. Like it was just, it's just a really funny thing. But yeah, so Kaz is making coffee now and this one's called his conventional roast. And you suppose that's, that's a play to his super. Yeah. I'm not sure. Is, do you think that is a play on the i think it's got to be something so does do you know does he have a website for this or anything yeah so it's right on here

www.cazcoffee.com should we see what other yeah what what other fine offerings he has for us and uh i have tried this too so i'll be able to give you my my not all that educated coffee review well right off bat, he's got some search engine work to do because Kaz Coffee and Kaz Cafe has come up a lot. Oh. Maybe we'll try Bill. Yeah. Well, then we have Bill Kazmaier Wikipedia.

So he needs... Is the website on there? Yeah, www.kazcoffee.com. Oh, with a K. Oh, yeah. Sorry, yeah.CazCoffee. Oh, with a K. Oh, yeah. Sorry, yeah. Kaz, you branding genius. We'll see what.

All right. It's loading up. Kaz Coffee. It's a nice-looking website right off the bat, too. It is looking good. Yeah. All right. Let's see.

Let's see what's in the shop. Let's see what we got in the shop. Like I said, this is the conventional. And it was, I guess you'd call it fresh roasted. It's got the date marked right on the package of the date that it was roasted. And this came into the mail, I think, one or no, it was two days after the date on the package that it was roasted. That's pretty good. That's dedication and quality right there.

the package that it was roasted. That's pretty good. That's dedication and quality right there. So it looks like your options are the conventional for $10, the conventional subscription which is $9 a month. So I'm guessing you just get one of those sent to you once a month. There's also a Jailhouse

Strong brew. Let's see if anything special about that. So that must be a collaboration with JL. Yeah, incorporating the JL House strong approach, individual over the institution. Kaz took Colombian Excelsior beans from the highest elevation in the Nariño region and roasted to your choice of minimum or maximum security.

I can picture Kaz in the, where was that? What region was that? In the N Nerino region. Yeah, I can picture him then, and it says he took Colombian Excel salt beans. I bet he literally, and he's like, give me those beans. Give me those. I'm going to take them. Just hiking his way through, looking for the finest beans.

Ooh, there also is a Conceive, Believe, Achieve poster. And that is what it says on its coffee package, too, here. Conceive, Believe, Achieve poster. And that is what it says on its coffee package, too, here. Conceive, Believe, Achieve. That must kind of be his model. And you got a tumbler, too. So let's see what they say about his coffee, because the package doesn't tell you a whole lot. Conventional roast, Colombian Excelsior beans from the highest elevations in the... It's the same thing.

Roasted to full city, medium dark. So that's the difference conventional only take your sumo elsewhere full city roast a balanced mixture and flavor between the individual origin of the coffee and the taste of the roasting process nice oh you can get whole bean or ground okay so if you like to grind your own beans yeah if you're that type of that type of person yep and this is ground already i think i didn I actually wasn't the one that made it. No one's left to review here yet. You could be the one to leave the first review.

Every time I get close to the package, it makes me just want to actually just eat the coffee. Get in there head first. So I did try it this weekend, too. So what's the taste review? It was good. I drink coffee maybe like once a day, but I'm not a coffee. I drink whatever random old coffee is at work. you're kind of going for the benefits yeah i'll be like yeah i want something

that's maybe warm and has some caffeine yes exactly that's why i drink coffee but i would say this for sure i i drink coffee every day at work so i drink whatever's in made in the pot which is probably only the finest yeah probably only the worst and this to me was noticeably better than that was it yes so i have a very unrefined palette but i could tell that this was better than that it was a step up yeah there was some more flavors happening yes i would say it was probably fairly mild yeah you know and it does say that in the um yeah in his description i suppose if you wanted something stronger you'd go with the jailhouse yeah it's your medium dark so yeah i'd say that's um yeah middle of the road

it wasn't very powerful to me it tasted pretty pretty mild like that was the one word as i was drinking it i was like it tastes good and it tastes pretty mild to me because i don't i i like my coffee dark you know you don't put like sugar no no i don't put anything i've never been a big fan of that either no um but yeah it was it was good the the smell is still better than the taste the smell of it in the package is uh which that's how almost all coffee goes right smell like i think 90 of the coffee experience is the smell yeah um but i liked it and i don't know how much this makes i don't even know how much is in here, but we had a pot, and there's still a lot in this bag.

So I'm curious now because I'm wondering, is coffee like the thing that people are getting into? Well, you don't really have to wonder. Coffee is kind of a popular thing for people to get into because doesn't Mark Bell, he has a coffee blend, doesn't he? I think he does too. He does too. Doesn't Mark Bell, he has a coffee blend, doesn't he?

I think he does, too. He does, too. I saw just yesterday on Instagram, Corn Coffee, the band Corn, has their own coffee, too. Well, obviously. I mean, you've got to strike. What a perfect fit. You take corn and coffee. People said it tasted like Woodstock 99.

So maybe we need a coffee blend. That's true. If you guys think we need a coffee blend, maybe hit us up and we'll head to the Reno region, make a little video about it, take you guys on a little adventure while we pick out the finest beans. I think if nothing else, we could come up with good descriptions to put to put in oh we could rock the description game

that would be our strong suit like convention only take your sumo elsewhere that would be we'd be just getting started yeah that would be the only that would be just one of many many puns that we could come up with our own with our. Well, we'll put it on the list. We'll see what happens. So package A, smell A+, and taste, I don't know. I guess A, I guess it was good. Not the best person. Yeah, I guess good.

So that's Kaz Coffee. So that sounds like a good thumbs up over here. Yep, it was for me, that's for sure. Cool. So thank you, Kaz. Thank you for your coffee yeah i always appreciate wasn't expecting to get the message from you kaz that you wanted to send us some but actually kaz said he uh was doing it in a in a thanks to the arnold interviews

yeah so i thought that that was interesting that he did you tell him don't read the comments lately because everyone's everyone's bashing you in favor of Paul Anderson and Samson. People really, really love Paul Anderson, even though they've almost never seen him do anything. They just love what they've heard about him. It's really easy to like someone's accomplishments when you can just kind of make them up. Kaz, take your recordings of all your lifts and get that crap out of here.

Well, should we hop into more serious things now? Yeah, I mean, that's about enough joking around for one day. Let's get to the heart of the matter here. The nuts and bolts. So what is our main topic of the day here? Well, in true Masonomics fashion, this is speculation again. Well, in true massonomics fashion, this is speculation again, but the main kind of the thing that's got people going just in the last 24, 48 hours has been proposed IPF changes. And there's a whole list of things. We'll go over some of the smaller things, but it ranges from tiny little things that, yeah, who cares, whatever,

to things that will fundamentally change how a lot of people lift. Some of them would potentially change how everyone lifts even. So, yeah, there's some really, really interesting things in here. Like we said, these are all proposed. I'm not the best at following the inner workings of how the IPF… Their process. Their process because it's such like a government body of rules and regulations and – Red tape. Committees and so much stuff.

What's the one thing that is going to change, though? You said that you were telling me this one. Well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that one. Yeah, so all these are kind of just proposed. And it sounds like – I don't know if it's every few years or how it works for sure, but they must take suggestions from every country. Like, countries can submit suggestions for potential changes they would like to see, and I'm assuming it goes to a vote at that point. Uh-huh.

So that's why you'll hear some kind of off-the-wall things that were suggested. You think maybe, like, every country has a representative or something like that? Just because this thing is so political, I would imagine that the boards in these countries have to – they probably have some type of representative, but they, just like our country, probably tell their representative what they're supposed to be doing. I can't imagine they just let their guy go in and just wing it,

how much money is on the line for some of these people and right and all that but let's just uh we'll kind of run all over the list here and maybe we'll give right away what you if you think it's good or bad and then we'll dive in on it so first one this is something we have we've talked about recently at a female class around 95 or 96 kilos yep and what in pounds then we're talking to um so it's just about 200 yeah 200 yeah right and right now they're at 185 so it's just adding a heavier class just yeah just just a step up from yeah instead of because right now what's it like 185 plus yeah which is a huge range we've talked about that so good or bad, Tanner?

What do you think? And also, adding this would give them equal number of weight classes for men and women. Because women are down one weight class right now. I think it's good and bad. And we literally wrote an article on this literally exact thing. And we wrote an article from the standpoint of laying out the facts and then kind of letting people make their own decision of whether it's good and bad and even after writing it my opinion was kind of both the way i think it's good is it makes the women and the men equal from the both the number of classes that they have to compete in and also the the trend that we looked at where the uh

gets to be fewer and fewer competitors across every class because right now there's a spike up for the women in that last class. So I believe if you added that last class, it would make the trend look much more similar to what the men's curve is like. So that's the positive of it. But the negative, I think, is that just in general, there's too many classes probably as it is. There's too many divisions. It's just like there's too many uh too many too many divisions and it's just split so much yeah right right um but also at a full world level

like an ipf level a world class level i'm okay with there being multiple classes in that case it's more of a local issue i think when there's yeah and that's kind of just gonna i think be the nature of the beast because once you open it up to like different weight classes that yeah that doesn't work for even like qualifying into it and yeah that's not really an option but i could see the argument for there just being too many classes as it is and why are you why don't add one for the women take one away for the men or something like that you know and so it looks like and then i could be completely wrong on this but based off what i'm reading here it looks like that suggestion was submitted by the

us apl and part of what they part of their reasoning for it is tying into um ties this whole thing back to the olympics and getting into the olympics yeah and they said uh equality equal opportunity for women is a major concern for the ioc and if you don't have equal classes right off the bat you're showing you're not equal and they also bring it up that um title nine in america title nine basically says like when it comes to it's not just sports is it everything maybe it's i always equate it to sports in my mind like in school that's what I was always thinking. But yeah, it's probably all activities. Actually, here, right here, Title IX.

Title IX is stated, no person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. So I would assume that's just kind of like state school or anything like that. So they said already by Title IX specifications, they are in violation. And so with that, they're saying it makes it hard for them to be like a college sport and to be accepted, which, yeah, I mean, that kind of does make sense. It does go back to show that it kind of does tie into the whole like money government thing

of this whole thing. It's just, I don't know. So what do you, what's your final answer? Should they do it? Well, so alternatives here though would be maybe this, this is what makes it so hard because they could just distribute the weight

classes better, which would kind of mean either shaking up some or all of them. And, and then the shaking up the records though yeah shaking up the records which is always a big deal i think because what they do that five six years ago um or if the if equality is the name of the game they could remove a men's class and i have seen suggestions someone bring up the idea of like maybe remove the smallest men's class which is like if i had to pick one to remove that's what i would think i don't know what is

it like 120 something or one is there even like a 112 maybe it's really small yeah so that's an idea um because i've also seen that okay you had another women's class you could make an argument for another men's class because after 275 like 264 yeah all right yeah 264 yeah the sky's the limit right ray williams weighs 400 pounds you know know, I mean, that's. Yeah. I think I'm going to go. I think it's good. I think women need another class. Yeah. It just seems like, especially with how popular the sport's becoming, like to say that after,

what's it like 182 pounds or 184 or whatever it is. Yeah. That you're just in no limit territory. Right. 185 is not. I don't feel like 185 is that heavy for even a muscular like like a i mean if you're close to six feet tall as a woman and have muscle 185 you're not that big and i just like the idea of them being the equal number of classes between

the two it seems like they should be yeah so i don't i don't have a problem with that one well uh next one have minimum totals for internationals. I guess I didn't know this, but apparently to compete at international meets, there's not like minimum totals. But so that must be the issue there is there's countries that aren't that are filling out. Yeah, which I think like that would never be an issue for the USAP. No, there's a hundred people in flight or whatever. So to me, I don't even care. Really? It doesn't really. Yeah. It doesn't really matter.

It affects almost no... All it affects is the people from the smallest participating countries. I guess I would say, if I had to pick, I'd say go ahead and do it. Yeah, sure. I don't think there's anything wrong with making a world-level competition more competitive. Right, right. Here, we'll get... This one is maybe one of the most controversial ones.

And it's the knee sleeve, the argument around knee sleeves. And so I didn't know where this... What's the basis for that? Well, I was doing a little research what this one stemmed through. I didn't know the lengths that people were going to with knee sleeves. I had heard things about people using plastic bags to help knee sleeves go on easier and you know having a team of people to put them on but allegedly people have caught teams and lifters have caught other people like the last few years going to meets with a hair dryer and warming up their knee sleeve well

warming up their knee sleeves as much getting the smallest knee sleeve you could possibly get warming it up so it expands as much as possible and then just fighting as hard as you can to get that thing on so once it's on like you're definitely getting like some supportive qualities out of it yeah and then going and lifting and you know if it gives you 15 20 pounds like that's a big deal and so the issue here is like trying to fight people that are doing that and the solution solution, I'm not sure I agree with. The solution is pulling down your knee sleeves right before you step up to the platform. And then also, I'm sorry, pulling your knee sleeves down right before you go on the platform. And then back up to show that they're loose enough that you can do it by yourself.

And that just seems like the last thing you'd want to be doing that i do not like that because just anyone that's competed in a meet before like that would be that have you ever put your knee sleeves on not sitting down no so that would be like is there going to be a chair to like put them on or do you lay on the floor to do it like just like when you walk out when you go from the warm-up room to the platform you are so beyond doing stuff like just like when you walk out when you go from the warm-up room to the platform you are so beyond doing stuff like that like mentally you're it would switch up the whole dynamic of the squat to me because well then you only have a minute so your name gets called yeah you literally have to be like they say your name you got to be walking out to get those knee sleeves

down and up and you do have to get like loose fitting knee sleeves at that point like i don't think it's whatever i mean people will say all raw should you know pure raw whatever but okay your knee sleeves are a little snug you got to work a little bit to put them on no big deal that's how mine are you know you fold down the top fold up the bottom pull them up you know they go on no problem right but you start adding in sweat hair you know, they go on no problem. Right. But you start adding in sweat, hair, you know, this stuff into the, like get a little bit of a pump going. Maybe your calf grows a little bit. I don't know.

And all of a sudden it's a totally different ball game moving those things around. I've never even attempted to put my knee sleeves on when I'm sweaty because in my head it just would be a losing battle. I'm not in favor of that at all. I guess I'd rather people game the knee sleeves and do what they can to get those super tight ones than throw in the... If that's the only possible solution,

I'd go without solving the problem. At that point, it almost seems like do your warm-ups and just take your knee sleeves off and not even worry about it anymore. Yeah, right. Which... I think the better time to handle it is through equipment check-ins i think and you know you're checking equipment or even you could be randomly

checked at any time in the back room like if someone suspects something they can go over yeah come and say all right move them around a little bit right maybe they don't need to you know before your last warm-up go and say rip those down Right. But it seems like it could be handled somewhat responsibly. Right. I don't like that. Besides just throwing this whole blanket thing on it. So that was one of the bigger ones. Also thrown out there was the idea that the Wilkes coefficient,

and I think this one I get the impression is like a done deal, is that the Wilkes coefficient will be going away next year and replaced. Maybe they'll come up with some fancy name, but it looked like what was just the name being used right now will be the IPF coefficient. Did they say anything about what the difference would be? Not really necessarily. Other than the fact that they feel Wilkes is outdated, which I've heard a lot of people say that. Because I don't know, what's it been around 15 years or something? Yeah, I don't know.

Something like that. And I guess at the time that was based on current data that Robert Wilkes had available to him. Well, that's probably completely changed. Right. And I've seen Open Powerlifting make the comment before that someone could use their data and come up with a much better... It's the biggest pool of data. Even just, okay, you don't want to include everyone? Okay, just hit the IPF

button. Just take those ones if that's what you are concerned about. But yeah, it seems like in there, there's never been a resource better than that to have someone tackle this and come up with it. But that'll be interesting because for a lot of people, their Wilkes is a big deal to them.

Yeah. I can't imagine your Wilkes is going to, or your score, whatever they call that, is going to change considerably. Like, I don't think if you were all of a sudden placing in, you know, making a run for best lifter out of meet, that all of a sudden you're going to be middle of the pack. Right. I still think you're going to be in contention for best lifter. Yeah.

You might shift a place or two, but probably nothing too radical there right yeah i compare yeah like you said comparing across the same group of people it's probably going to place you in the in a similar spot anyways but what i think something they could do in order to make it so if they come up with a new one that it won't be become obsolete is that built into the equation it uh it pulls something as far as current data you know like it almost seems like the number almost needs a way to like regulate itself right that's what i think based off of because this data is going to be available itself off of historical data right so do we just say like this snapshot in time right now is the most accurate time for making something right or who knows it seems hard to believe but in 10 years

will powerlifting be twice as popular as it is right now right because all of a sudden now you have twice as many people in the pool oh to statistically yeah and a lot of like real life like insurance is a big thing that uses that they use like what's called an olympic average where they'll take the last c approved well i don't know they'll take well i don't know not that olympic maybe that is what maybe it it is what it comes from because it's like figure skating i think they take say there's five scores uh-huh they immediately drop off the worst and the best and then the average remaining so in the case of power lifting we say we look at the last five years to base the data against, you throw out the highest and the lowest, whichever two years those are,

and then you just look at those. Okay. So that's how insurance does it to you? That's how some forms of insurance work that I've worked with before. But I just think something like that could work. If you're looking at, say, and it's always adjusting. So then the next year the number moved to the most recent five years and it's just always so you're just always looking at the last you know a more current current numbers to base it off of yeah i mean that makes sense to me is that like unless someone really does come up

with the perfect equation it almost seems like it kind of has to be a living breathing thing a little bit yeah and that's going to get some people butt hurt because you just can't compare everything. But I don't know if that's ever going to exist. Right. Or you kind of can, relatively speaking, it could be a better comparison. You know, it's not as good of a comparison if you did something 10 years ago versus how I did something 10 years later. did what i'm doing right now versus what someone's doing in 30 years right right but but in a way it's kind of a better comparison because it's it would be showing how you're doing relative to everyone else in that that era yeah you know so

they could make a case that it could be a better comparison that way too so that is one of the more interesting ones it sounds like it's going through i thought it said they have like some some researchers or research team working on it in germany at a university um i don't know hopefully they're really smart uh math sciencey people and they come up with something good but do you what do you think they're probably using some of open power lifting's data it seems really dumb yeah i mean the ipf does a pretty good job of keeping their database up to date, too, you know, over the last several years. I think kind of before, like, pre-2012 or whatever. I think they kind of pretend that doesn't exist anymore.

Right. But even that, you know, 2012 on is kind of a different game historically than pre-2012. For sure. At least, I mean, there's still the outliers, but as a whole, we've talked about it with open powerlifting stats the week before that. Just as a whole, it's pushing forward so far. Yeah, so far and so fast. Next point, and this is also one that will get a lot of people upset. This is probably the outside of the knee sleeves, the biggest one that's just like, how the hell do you even do it?

Yeah. Would be the bench. And so regarding bench, there was a few different things but the one that really stands out is adding the words as flat as possible to the rule book and then no feet on the bench so basically they're trying to say that when you go to set up on the bench right now you you will see some some people in every meet actually put their feet stand stand their feet up on the end of the bench and then really use that leverage to drive their shoulders in. And then from there, you know, they can really work this crazy arch. So one, saying that feet are no longer allowed on the bench.

And then regarding the arch, adding the rules. I don't know if it's just adding the words as flat as possible so yeah regarding your back or your setup just being as flat as possible i mean that's like that's an enormous thing for some people oh like if that for some people that would be huge um but again like i don't know how you enforce rules that are that vague right as flat as possible but that's just like saying next year i hope business goes as good as possible what does that mean that vague. Right, as flat as possible. That's just like saying, next year, I hope business goes as good as possible. What does that mean? That doesn't mean anything.

I mean, if they're going to do that, doesn't the rule have to be from butt to shoulder blades and we'll all be touching the bench? I mean, it wouldn't have to be something like that. But even then, that's never going to be possible either because some of these guys and girls, they're so muscular, their butt is never going to allow their lower back to touch. I mean, they're always going to have to be in this curled up ball to even get contact. And then at that point, their shoulders aren't touching. Right.

So I have no idea how they would enforce that one. And then also with that, your feet wouldn't be able to touch underneath the bench, which they wouldn't be able to touch each other? Underneath the bench, which I'm sure there's a couple people in the world that do that. There can't be many, though. And is that an advantage if you do do that? I don't know.

Especially when you have to keep your heels down too. Maybe if you don't have to keep your heels down, maybe your feet touching isn't as big, but feet touching your heels down that seems really hard to do i agree that i don't think that one could affect as many people but i don't know the standing on the edge of the bench i think the idea behind it is like equipment preservation i don't know it's just you mean the what like protecting the bench but. But for what? Like not standing on the end of the bench because it wears out the pad. I think that was kind of the reasoning behind it.

Oh, that's ridiculous, I think. Which just makes no sense at all. But that would completely change that lift for a lot of people. Reason to avoid damage to the surface of the bench no that's idiotic to me like seems like it yeah yeah but if you're talking about removing the arch if you did that though that would just completely change the way some people perform that lift like you'd have to prepare for some people to some people would go through like 25 i think 25 to 40 percent decreases oh yeah yeah like all of a sudden all of a sudden go from being like top level competitors to top level competitors with just a slightly above average bench yeah and some people that maybe

never have been able to get into a good arch position come back down to my level yeah so yeah i just i don't see how that could ever go through yeah and it'd be a very neither of us are really big archers so it wouldn't really change us much but no i have no clue you would absolutely get judges at meets that are just going to call everything right we were at a meet long ago where not long ago where nine out of ten deadlifts literally got one a red light from a judge for not being locked out probably which is the weirdest thing i'd ever seen yeah um so i mean you're always going to get like people that are like that and so that just seems like a slippery slope yeah i agree

uh another rule if you bomb on a lift you don't continue to next discipline at internationals um i mean that that's fine that's fine with me don't yeah i think the idea there was like because people could still go on let's say you bomb on squat you could still go on and set a deadlift world record which i don't know it just that's fine that seems reasonable the sport is powerlifting do all three lifts don't be so bad at one of them what what do you think about uh this is probably not so common in the ipf but people in other federations going for world records so they keep world records as the the full a full meet world record, and they also keep a single lift world record. Well, people say they're going for a world record squat,

or maybe a deadlift is a better example. They want to do a world record deadlift in a full meet, and they go and squat 200 pounds, go and bench 100 pounds, and then go try and pull their 890 deadlift. See, that always brings up an interesting one too like because that has happened before there are people yeah and it makes sense like yeah they did what they're supposed to but how do you i don't know how you police that unless usually by the time someone's getting a world record they have a history you know of meets so

do you look and say like oh you were at 50 here and here, so you make the rule you have to be at least 75%, well then, okay, I'll go 76%. It gets hard to enforce. That's almost like a... I mean, I don't know, and that's tricky too because some people might say there's no... That's not wrong to do that. To some people, they just don't see that as wrong, I think. Or let's say you do have, I a i don't know a pec injury yeah

doesn't affect your deadlift for whatever reason but you have a pec injury and it you literally can't bench right like but you have a potential setting a deadlift record is that record like now not valid because your bench was too bad so i don't know how you go around yeah i've done a meet before where i've kind of took a little bit of a token bench. Yeah. Because of that, you know, a shoulder injury, but you wanted to compete. Right. Your shoulder wasn't working.

Right. You just wanted to get out there, have fun. So I went into the squat trying to do everything I could and the deadlift, everything I could. But in bench, I took one attempt and I just took it as something I knew I, you know, that was easy. So I guess I've done that before. Yeah. To me, that is one of the biggest, like, I don't even want, I don't know if you say moral, but like, I don't know. It almost does come into like morals of like, are you cheating?

Yeah. And where do you draw the line of like forcing people to perform what you think they should be performing? And that one could probably be, you could probably argue that for a whole episode right there i think so um so those were some of the the bigger i know we have a list of a few more here what about there's a couple i noticed what about just this is just goofy and i don't even know why it's up but t-shirts being worn for all lifters on all lifts so that they're talking about the deadlift right because that's the so yeah right now guys have the option in the ipf us apl of not wearing

a shirt underneath your singlet when you do deadlift um there's a suggested rule to just make it wear shirts across the board and i don't know what the reasoning was for sure. You could argue that it's an equality thing because women are required to wear shirts all the time. Like, you're a woman in a sports bra. You can't do that for deadlift, which is kind of weird, too. It does seem like a bit of a double standard.

Like, you're covered up. That's true. Like, your boobs aren't hanging out. You have a sports bra. What's the difference? Right. So that one seems like okay yeah if you're going to keep the shirt on or if you're going to have the shirt off and

women want to take their shirt off and just wear their i guess that seems fine to me because what i was going to say and you just made me change my mind is like culturally it's not acceptable for a woman to walk around with her nothing on her, you know, like completely nude on top. And it is okay for a man, but like you said, you'd still be covered. Yeah, or if they really are afraid that women are just going to be going topless and things are going to be popping out, okay, and maybe it is a rule. It actually might be a rule that women are, I don't even know, are probably required to wear a sports bra.

Yeah, I don't know. That's probably some type of rule. I don't know. I's probably some type of rule. I don't know. Yeah. I've never entered as a woman in a beach. I wonder if there are, there probably are rules about the, what they can and can't wear.

Probably. I mean, there's rules for underwear. Yeah. I mean, that falls under undergarments. And then, like, I've seen some people argue, like, well, why should you have to wear a shirt at all? To me, it makes sense. It's totally a hygiene thing.

Like, someone goes out squatting, like, like 800 plus and they don't have a shirt on and it just starts tearing back skin off. No. Like do we need to start taking time between meets? Like you can say, I don't care about germs at all, but is it fair for you to go out with some guy literally having skin hanging off the bar?

Is that giving you the best? So now we have to start taking time to clean the bar between it. Like that one makes no fricking sense. No, I don't think it's advantageous to to not wear a shirt when you squat anyways like i think you i think it helps it seems like you're giving like by that point you're usually probably sweaty right so you're giving something up by having moisture involved yes and then the same thing like when people dead on the bench yeah and every meet you go to you'll see it like someone will puke or their hand will tear or something. They've got to clean up the bar and they have to stop.

So I think the more you can do to stop things from slowing down, the better. That's why it just seems like, okay, shirts. Yeah, but I know some people really like not wearing shirts. Oh, they love it. It's like the one chance. Ah, deadlift's here. The one chance at showing the physique. Yeah.

And maybe an IPF that isn't as common of uh yeah i think it's just goes to the thing of like hey i got a body check me out it's like well no one cares except you well then i wonder if part of that is for ipf image of if they figure everyone wears a shirt then they're not as it's not like uh as much they don't want it to be a freak show like uh like some non-tested federations kind of do want it to be yeah yeah so i guess i don't want it to be a freak show like some non-tested federations kind of do want it to be. So I guess I don't really care on that one. If they say everyone's got to wear shirts, whatever. You're there to lift weights, not to.

If you really want people to see without your shirt that bad, you can do a physique show or something. It really has nothing to do with your results for the day. What do you think about i kind of was interested at this one a 36 month not 12 month bans for lifting uh in nine oh okay so this isn't a drug ban this is for yeah so this is like like right now if you're an ipf competitor yeah like not usapl but if you are an ipf competitor you know competing at like national and world meets and you go do a meet for another federation right now you're banned for 12 months and so probably the big one is like dennis cornelius yeah he just he wanted to do the us open some of those other ones so he's been not doing us apl meets and ipf meets for right almost a year now actually

um talking about extending that ban out to 36 months, so three years. I don't like that. I was thinking it was increasing the length of time for drug failure, which I would be supportive of that. Yeah, I'm all for it. If it's supposed to be drug tested and drug free, make them as long as. Yep, and I wouldn't be against that. But 36 months for like, okay, yeah, you placed really good at nationals, and now you want to see if you can make some money at the U.S. Open.

And now because of that, you have to sit out for three years years which depending on where you're at in your career could be your glory years you know i would like there to not be a ban at all for that like just drug test the person if you want i know it's really dumb and it's i don't know i wish there wasn't a ban because it would be so much cooler than you might be able to talk uh yeah fun meets to watch right here year. Ray Williams might go do big dogs. Yes. And that's a win for everyone. I think that's what it is, though, is like, well, they're giving up ownership, like the exclusive deal with these people at that point if they do that.

Yeah, they've got Ray Williams locked in because they know he loves it. And I don't know if there's an olympic tie into that part part of it too but yeah it wouldn't surprise me if they it's just literally like we don't want to give that up because we'd be losing these people right um one of the stranger ones it seems like is anth athletes may not display national flags during medal ceremonies what i saw on that is they said sometimes on the podium when people stretch out with the, they're literally covering up the other people on the podium. And it's like kind of a, I don't know if it's a disrespectful or an annoying thing that,

Hey, we're all in the podium, but we can only see one of you. I think the idea was that flags can still be displayed like above the podium or around it. It's just like, you can't be on the podium, like waving your flag all over the place.

I don't know. It seems kind of dumb, but whatever. How about the junior chain? We talked about that. I'm totally in favor of that. Right now, a junior goes all the way up to the age of 23, and bringing juniors down to 21 makes complete sense to me. Who thinks of a 23-year-old as Like in, in every other place in the world,

I mean, a lot of places in the world, you're an adult at 18, right? Most places. And then you have full rights basically as an adult at 21, almost no matter what. And at 23 years old,

I don't think a lifter is at a competitive disadvantage to a 30 year old. You haven't been in the game as long, but you're seeing right now, like USAPL, a lot of the top guys are early 20s yeah i mean a lot of people breaking records are juniors breaking open world records right so i think 21 is a way better fit and it makes way more sense it just seems dumb when you're out of meeting someone's 23 and oh i'm going for the junior record it's like you're years old like you graduated from college you literally have a

job and are probably done at college now like you are in every sense of the word an adult and i also saw they mentioned on here or impossibly abolishment of sub junior of the sub junior and i'm kind of also in favor like i'm in favor of that yeah like it's nice like having ways to recognize people but god between sub junior juniorior, junior, masters, like masters 1, 2, 3, open, we've talked about it before. There's just so many divisions to all this stuff. I'd rather just see them pushing more people into the open. I agree.

Should we do, before we get too far, stat of the week? We should do the open powerlifting stat of the week. We got one of those? We've got one. Let me pop that up here. Okay, this is the open powerlifting stat of the week on the Massanomics podcast. And we are looking at every male 220-pound competitor

in the open powerlifting database. So that's all their meets, not just their best one. And we're going to look at the average lifts for those 220- pounders for do you want to get have you seen have you i have seen this actually i did want to talk to you about this so in the 220 pound class the average bench is 316 pounds and i think that's pretty good like that's above my expectation i would think i think that's pretty good. 220 isn't an enormous guy. 315 average, three plates.

Yeah. And I should say, too, this is for all male 220 class, all federations, all meets. So it's not just the athlete's best meet. It's all meets that they've ever done worldwide. And this also includes the IPF classes. Even though we're talking 220 uh it's still people that weigh from the ipf that weighed in at body weights that would fit into the 220 class are included in this so a 316 pound bench i think that's that's pretty good yeah i think so if

you're looking across the entire average yep because there's some a lot of beginners you know and this is including everyone's beginning meets you know this is including every meet that everyone's done um so the average deadlift is 517 pounds and there again i think that's pretty good yeah i mean like when you just figure you can go to any random meet and that's going to be the average like yeah probably about right because there's not a ton of Uri Belkins running around bringing up that, you know, like with 9-1-1. Exactly, yeah. Like to bring up that.

For every one Uri Belkin, there's 10,000 people doing like 400. Yeah. The squat in wraps is 491 pounds. That's pretty good too, I think. And the squat, raw squat in sleeves is 437 pounds that was the one that was the biggest surprise to me that the in sleeves was 437 at 220 yeah to me that seems like the lowest one out of all of them i agree and maybe it's just the meats we've done i don't know but that one seemed kind of on the lower on the low end just a little over four plates the average total

in sleeves is 1251 and the average total and total wrapped is 1360 so it is surprising they're seeing that it's a hundred pounds different but just the squats themselves aren't i think it's more like because the federation right you're getting right involved with people right because the squats themselves if you look just at the squats there's a 50-ish pound difference in the total there's a thousand pounds difference 100 or oh yeah sorry yeah thousand a hundred pounds difference uh but yeah i think that's why it is because it's the fed like the people you're getting doing those different federations and maybe the IPF class is bringing some of that down, the drug-tested federations. Yeah.

So me looking at that, I can say, huh, I'm above average. It's like, all right. What was your first meet total? Well, my first meet, I weighed 183. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. meat total was my first meat i weighed 183 oh yeah that's right yeah so the the first meat well the first meat that i ever did at like a 220 pound weight like at that weight class i had like a 13

like 80 total oh so you're quite quite a ways above the uh and and maybe that's why the surprise like bench i've that meat that i did that was pretty much like rate. It was like three 19 or something. So right on the money there, deadlift was five, like 45. So just above that. But then the squat was the big one where I made up the difference with like a 500 pound squat. Right. You know, like what was that? 70. Cause what was that? Four 30 for that? Yeah. Four 37. So that was where the big difference is. But, um, for you, you know, you're a pretty good squatter that is one of my better lifts yeah so um it might just seem to you you know to to other people they might be like oh that deadlift seems uh yeah but my takeaway from that was people on instagram are totally distorting the view of what lifting is. That's so true.

Like 700-pound deadlifts are so rare. Yeah, but not to us when we're looking at these things all day long. You just get used to looking at Instagram. And especially like, you know, it's probably not as unusual to go to an untested federation and see a 700-pound deadlift. Yeah. But if you're going to go to like a local USAPL meet, you're probably not seeing a 700-pound deadlift. But if you're going to go to a local USAPL meet, you're probably not seeing a 700-pound deadlift. It's probably just not going to happen.

At a national level, yeah, it will. And there'll be quite a few of them. But at a local meet, they're just not. That's just not a thing. Same thing with over 600-pound squats. I mean, there's some people there doing it. Yeah, there are some. But it's just it's not a thing

you're seeing a lot of yeah instagram will make you think otherwise right the bench is a good example of that too the 316 pounds like on the internet it's it's just everyone benches everyone benches four plates for reps like but in reality most people working out like a three-plate bench is a significant goal. Oh yeah. And it's yeah. And if you can bench three plates, you are above so much of the population.

We even just lifting in a gym where a lot of people are above, above average strength. You get a little brainwashed from that. Like you think about a three plate bench. I mean, every day you're in the gym, our gym, even just a small gym in South Dakota, you know, almost every day you're in the gym, our gym, even just a small gym in South Dakota,

almost every day you're there, you'll see someone benching more than that for sets. Oh, yeah, repping it out, no problem. That's like a step on the warm-up ladder. But a funny story about this, this weekend I lifted, I trained somewhere else. Yeah, you were out of town. And I'm so not used to going to gyms that aren't like our gym and i just went to kind of like uh just basically like a ymca it wasn't a ymc just your local right locally with treadmills and decent weight equipment and stuff and i was doing sets on the

bench with 315 pounds and just like i said to if you lift at a powerlifting gym that's just like uh it's just like hey yeah that's just what you do yeah right right right it's not exceptional in any way and and then like a man in his 50s came up and he's like whoa what just like that thing that i that used to happen when you forgot about yeah and i was like like i wasn't even i literally forgot about that until he said yeah because that's the thing that once to happen when we went to a different – Yeah, and I was like – like I wasn't even thinking about – I literally forgot about that until you said – yeah, because he used to get that once in a while. Yeah, and he'd come up and be like, holy cow, save some weights for the rest of us. Yeah, that's the classic one, yeah. And he's like, just leave those little ones over there for me.

And I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot that people always have to say that stuff. Yeah, I totally forgot about that. So far removed. And like I said, it was 315 pounds, which, I mean, is not nothing, but when you're around people that do that all the time. Are you almost done? I want to lift you now.

Exactly. I did think that was funny, though. Yeah, that is good. A little reality check. It was. It was like, oh, that's right. People say all those things, and we just aren't around any of those people. Old guys love to see people just lifting weights.

But anyway, so I think that covers the stat of the week. So that's the Open Powerlifting stat of the week on the Mastodonomics podcast. Open Powerlifting. I wonder what their numbers are up to in their database. Was it over 700 000 now that they've got sounds about right it's in the hundreds of thousands yeah several hundred thousand uh i still haven't bought that open power lifting shirt yet if our weekly update on where i'm at on buying an open power lifting shirt but it sounded like i think maybe they have

shirts stocked now i think so yeah i think so so if you are interested in one maybe you could beat me to it or maybe a really loyal fan out there would want to take the step for me and buy it and send it just send it to you like just shut up about it already so yeah thank you open power lifting for another another stat yeah thanks guys um we're kind of getting down i mean towards the end of the list and the end of the podcast here. But other things just, I mean, there's a few more. They start to get into things that we don't even really care. One was an inspection of venue to quality check,

kind of like the spotting and loading teams. Inspection of venue, I'm sure that can include any number of things. Yeah. What about the downward movement on the squat? So that one's an interesting one because it's saying that just because you have a downward movement in the squat doesn't mean the lift is no good. Like you could potentially have a slight dip and still recover and be okay. Yeah. Which is cool.

It lets you grind it out a little more. a little more um the downside i see to that is and it's not the way i squat but i've never made a downward movement and ever came back from it and then it also it seems like it's opening up the door to people already like to complain about spotters at the ipf level and now you're gonna say like oh yeah that person can start to go, but don't take the bar from them. That seems like you're really opening it up to like all some weird subjectivity with. Yeah. Because now someone going to protest it because you took it too soon for me. I was going to rebound out of that.

Right. I don't know. That one seems a little. It's almost a safety issue potentially. Yeah. So I wasn't a huge fan of that one. There's also something about deadlifting at the top of the lift. If you lose your balance and still recover. But finishes the lift erect.

Erect. Keyword erect there. And lock out. There should be no reason for a disqualification. I guess I know that feeling. I've seen people do that before where you lock it out and but then you kind of like yeah and i i also feel like that's one that you see more in other meets where there's like bar whip involved i'm all right with the rule as it is like just do it perfectly and yeah it's going to be good you know yeah i don't know i just think that's another area

opening up too many right Too much subjectivity. I don't know. I think that's kind of everything. That's probably the best. There are some really ridiculous ones. And some things that probably no one will ever care about. Right. I don't know. Yeah.

I think that's the most interesting ones. Yeah. What about our big lifts for the week? Ooh. People have been asking me how they can make it into our big lift segment. Oh, have they? Or they've said, hey, is this good enough to get me into big lifts? Have you set the criteria?

Well, first you have to be Larry Wheels. That's at least the easiest way to get in. Well, speaking of that, maybe we should just say what Larry's been up to this week now. We'll lead it right off with Larry. Larry hit. What did he do? He did 500 on the bench, 500 for 11 reps. Why not?

Yeah. Larry, just keep doing it, man. That is pretty crazy. Yeah? How many people have probably ever done that? I don't know. I bet it's a short list. I usually assume even if you are of that strength level,

is 500 for 11 even a goal? Right, right. That's the thing people aren't going for. I bet Leroy Walker's done it. I bet James Strickland could. But I don't know if he's done it. I bet Leroy Walker has done it. I think there's people out there that can,

but I don't think there's a lot of people that would because it seems like such a ridiculous lift to do. Right. Because he is literally throwing that around the first couple of reps. It's like, damn, dude, that's 500 pounds. Something gets off. You're in trouble in a hurry there. Yeah, big time.

He also did an incline bench. We didn't write it down in Big List, but I think he did 500 for a set of five or six. Did we talk about that last week or not? Maybe we did. Because I think you did that a week or two ago. You can never talk about Larry Wheels too much in Big Lifts. Nope, it's always there.

I think this was a really interesting one. Charles Mitchell III, and on Instagram, I think he's like Berserker or something is his name. I can't remember exactly. But they had America's Strongest Man, and they used the Stone of Steel over bar was one of the events. And the normal stone, I think, weighed like 440 or 400 and something. But the Trump Stone, they called it, was 500.

So if you could do – we've done events like this at the Masonomics Strongman where the heavier stone trumps any weight, any number of reps at the lighter stone. So their Trump Stone was 500 pounds of the Stone of Steel, which has never been done before by – apparently never been done in competition, at least by anyone. And the Stone of Steel, too, for people that don't know a ton about the stones, at least by anyone. And the Stone of Steel too,

for people that don't know a ton about the stones, a thing that people use to their advantage, and it makes sense, is they use tacky. This isn't like a little bit of stick. It's not like syrup on your hand. Tacky is like you touch something on it, like you're stuck to it. So you'll see, watch any stone event.

Natural stones. Yeah, natural stones, especially one where people can take their time. And you'll see their forearms, shirt, everything is covered in it. And it'll be on the back of their arms too. They'll use it to reapply mid-event. And you'll see, if you look, you can see that stuff stretching. It's some crazy stuff.

So people can use that to help them out with natural stones. Where the stone of steel gets interesting is that that is not allowed.y is not allowed you are allowed a tacky towel which is i've someone has had one before and i've used it and it is not comparable to tacky it isn't a tacky towel is something that they use in golf that a golfer will wipe on his hand so he has a better grip on his club so like it's got to be crazy strong right right it is it is completely in a different ballpark than actual tacky uh and for reference the world record brian shaw we watched him for natural stone yeah braun and natural stone we watched him break it both times i think the first time it was 555 and then he chipped it i would call it and did like 565 the next year it looked pretty easy but that was 565 with plastered and tacky i mean i mean he had it was an hour 25 he had 25 minutes

to prep his own yeah yeah to do the five outside of the half hour he had to size it up and look at it it did look easy and i'd be surprised if he couldn't have done a 600-pound stone. And that's the annoying thing about it is, like, you've got to have so much more there. Just make a 600-pound stone and do it. Because now I'm like, okay, get Charles Mitchell out there. He'll do that 565, too. Assuming he can do it, he would gladly step on the stage, I'm sure, and take your $10,000 check that just just chip at every year right so i'd like to see i'd love to see like a strongest stone competition

that'd be really cool that would be and i so i think three of them got the trump uh trump stone the 500 pound stone of steel two guys did it for one rep and this did it for berserker did it for three 500 by three that That seems pretty crazy. Like a lot of people probably, that's probably an interesting bit in our big lift segment is that I think a lot of people probably haven't seen that. So go check that out if you haven't. Pretty nuts. And then last on the list here, we have Kaler Wollum and his 948 deadlift. So he flew to Russia to do the old WRP, yeah, RPF

meet. And so he got to compete in the... under probably a little different set of rules than what your average deadlift meet is. He had four attempts, the widest plates you will ever see, probably also the whippiest bar you'll ever get, which probably favors

a deadlift. I mean, it favors a deadlift as much as it can, and on top of that, probably a sumo lift even more. But yeah, 9.48, he got on his second attempt, right? Yes, because he tried 9.70 on his third. So he tried 9.70 on his third and fourth, and I think it was his third he got a really quick down command, and they called the lift no good. Man, I think actually for sure in depending on what meet you're in that would have been good yeah um maybe that's part of not being at the home team right being uh at uh yuri belkin's home team yeah the man who has the 970

pounds no coincidence probably that kaylor chose uh 970 i think uh that is the heaviest deadlift by an american in a powerlifting meet which was a little surprising yeah um yeah it just seems like yeah there'd be a bigger one somewhere but no i mean you can't count in strongman because right you know that's not a powerlifting right uh steve johnson's gone over 900 uh chris weiss has done 915 yep um jerry pr Weiss has done 915. Jerry Pritchett has done nine-something, I think, in a powerlifting meet before. But 948, the biggest of all time by an American. And in the 220-pound weight class.

That's the thing that's... Was Yuri lifting? I thought he was because he saw it come up to... I thought he was, but I don't remember seeing any. Yeah, he had a singlet on and was walking around there, but I don't remember seeing any of his lifts. Well, and one other update on last week's episode, now that we're talking about this meet, too, our over-under bet was whether or not, did you say three people would drop out

between when we recorded that to the big dogs three meet last week was our preview episode. You can check that out if you haven't. And the over-under was three, and I think we decided that was probably a pretty good number, that it's probably going to be real close to that. And not even three days after we recorded that, the biggest big dog, we find out, is not competing, Andrei Milanochev.

And why that is exactly, I've heard, torn pec. Sickness. Yeah've heard torn pec. Sickness. Yeah. A few reasons. But the weirdest part of it, though, is that he did a meet. I mean, he did this meet. Yeah, right.

And what Dan Bell's comment was, oh, I get it. He's on his home turf. He doesn't have to travel. Maybe he doesn't feel 100% for big big dogs and he has a guaranteed payday at this meet he'll just take that but then brandon allen i saw he you know he made the comment well that if you tore your peck could you still be benching you know 500 and some pounds yeah like unless it's a very minor tear right right that unusual. Yeah. I guess I haven't torn a pec. No.

But so there are more. What's your, if you had to make the bet now over or under on the three? Well, I think last time, did we both say over? I think so. I mean, you got to stick with it. Something else is going to happen. Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of the way it goes, especially if you count in-meat injuries, you know. Yeah, there's got to be at least one in-meat injury. There's just no way around that. So that was our big lifts for the week, right? That was it. Big lifts. We'll see who can make it in big lifts next week. We'll see what Larry Wheels does again.

There was one other segment we've got there. Do we have time for that? I think I filled in a comment there. We call this our best Instagram slash YouTube comment of the week. Emphasis on best because they're really good comments. Because it is the best. And what was this one? On the bent shirt.

So we did a post this week, bent shirt, which I am wearing. Get yourself one if you haven't already. Make sure you size up they do run small yeah that is not like a that's no it runs a full size small so get a size bigger but we did a a classic massonomics versus um i'm sure if you guys listen to this you're familiar with massonomics versus on instagram and we did the massonomics bench shirt versus a bench shirt and it was pretty dumb you know like the massonomomics bench shirt versus a bench shirt. And it was pretty dumb. You know, like the Massanomics bench shirt is like $21.

Our real bench shirt is $75 to $300. Our bench shirt is raw. Another bench shirt is not raw. What was it? I can't even remember what the other. The last one was chest hair. Yeah, yeah. Our shirt does not show chest hair, at least without a little tailoring.

But a real bench shirt does show some chest hair. So that was pretty much the breakdown of it. Totally meant to be dumb. I mean, we're literally comparing two shirts in a totally non-serious way. So if you can't figure that out, you're already having issues. But there were some really interesting comments on there. non-serious way so if you can't figure that out you're already having issues but yeah uh there were some really interesting comments on there yeah uh the best one being what's wrong with just lifting the weight normally um that's the comment no other context to it or anything what's wrong

with just lifting the weight normally and i almost think that maybe that person thought that they were we were comparing two equipped bench shirts. Like, whatever they thought, they certainly don't get Massonomics or Massonomics Versus. Which is good that we're getting idiots involved. That means you're reaching farther places. Yeah, so that's a great comment. One funny comment on there that actually was good that I thought kind of made me laugh is someone goes yeah and to think neither of these are ipf approved like raw lifting it's like yeah i guess you really can't wear our our bench shirt either yeah you got a point there

uh yeah and uh in order if you want to get in best instagram slash youtube comment of the week uh just comment something just completely asinine on one of our posts. You'll probably win. And we'll get you in there. There's a chance if it's too dumb, though, we will know who you are. Right. It can't be obvious. You have to just really look dumb.

It can't be obvious that you're trying to pull a fast one. And you had to have been laying low for a while. Because if you've made comments before, we get you on the radar at this point. Right. But I think that probably wraps us up doesn't it i think so so you talked about the bent shirt tommy are probably our new hottest hottest shirt in the store bench heavy big pecs cash checks and do be worn go a size bigger than you're used to ordering especially if you're uh comparing it to our lift shirt which probably runs a little bit on the large

size yeah i mean that is a bigger shirt than normal anyways. But, yeah, this is a size smaller than our regular shirts. It's going to be snugger in the shoulders, snugger in the arms. It'll show off the guns a little bit more. So definitely order a size bigger. And definitely just order one. And if you want to be safe, order both sizes. And you can have both.

And just keep them both. Yeah, that's actually what you should do. One will be your tight shirt, and one will be your just relaxing shirt right uh lift shorts we're out of just about every size of it you got an order coming in so maybe by the time you're listening to this we've got those restocked so if you've had a not uh had your eye on fitness's most expensive shorts we might have those back uh lift shirt and all the other lift products that you've come to love us by are all available in the store. Sign up for our newsletter when

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