Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - “Excellence Is My Practice” with Gayle King
Episode Date: April 25, 2023Parenting is the focus of this conversation: Gayle opens up about how she approached raising her “favorite daughter” and “favorite son”, and Michelle discusses her fight to keep her daughters ...normal in the White House. (Spoiler: Driving lessons and dating are pretty tricky.) She also shares stories about watching the girls now that they’re launched and living together. Find the episode transcript here: audible.com/tlp/episode6 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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The Light Podcast is presented by Starbucks and Intuit.
How, how, how to introduce Michelle, Levan, Robinson, Obama.
How do we do that? Are you as excited as I am to be here? Honest to God.
I just saw her backstage. She looks good.
So everybody in this room knows how spectacular she is.
We all know she graduated from Princeton under rad.
Harvard Law raised not one but two fabulous young women.
The Hugger in Chief, as it says so,
right there on her Instagram, has carried so much honesty,
decency, and light that I actually would not be surprised
to hear guys and she
glows in the dark. I like that. It's my pleasure to welcome to the stage Michelle Obama.
Hello everyone. This is the light podcast and I'm Michelle Obama. For a long time
one of my biggest fears has been whether or not I'm messing up my kids.
It's a thought that runs through every parent's mind. Am I being too lenient or am I coming down on
them too hard? Is comforting them during a temper tantrum really gonna calm them down? Or is it gonna
make them dependent on me for the rest of their lives?
I'll admit, it's not all entirely rational, but either way, it is very, very real.
And even if you don't have kids yet, but you're thinking about it, you're probably wondering
if you'll be a good parent.
This stuff is important to think through, because figuring out how to be a positive influence
on a child is tough.
It's a constantly moving target.
But at the same time, it is a singularly powerful experience.
Maybe the most fundamental way that one human can share their light with another.
That's what I get into in this episode.
And I'm thrilled to do it with my good friend, Gail King,
one of the most incredible moms I know.
Now Gail and I go way back.
We met right around the time Baroque was elected.
And these days, she and I are always texting about one thing or another.
I actually knitted a little gift for her adorable new grandson.
One of my favorite things about Gail is how supportive she is. She's always piping me up.
I'm sure some of you have someone like her in your life too. And doesn't it just mean the world
when you have someone in your life who is always cheering you on, it just makes you stand a little taller and
look at everything around you with more confidence and joy.
Honestly, I'm sure that's a big part of what makes her not just a great friend, but such
a good mother and grandmother too.
So, take a listen.
Everybody's in the house!
And looking good.
Thank you for coming out.
Hi, Gayle.
Hello, Michelle Obama.
What's up?
It never gets old.
It never gets old.
You know, I took the train up here, guys, from New York.
And we had a woman conductor and she said,
where are you going, Gayle?
Why are you going to Philadelphia?
Because she thought I was going to DC.
I said, no, I'm going to Philadelphia
because I get to interview Michelle Obama on stage.
And she said, I'm from Philly.
And so she said, I love me some Michelle Obama.
Don't we all say that?
And then her name is Trina.
She said, I love her style.
I love her grace.
That nice, I know.
I just like knowing.
So sweet.
It's sort of like, I just like knowing she's in the building.
So I want to talk about the book,
but before we talk about the book, can I just
talk about your look?
I love that you're wearing, I know.
Yes.
I love that you're wearing braids, Michelle.
I love that you're wearing braids.
Braids with a vicious pony. Yes.
Yes, indeed.
No, we never saw you in a tree.
I'm pretty.
Yeah.
We never saw you in grades in the White House.
Did you ever think about braids in the White House?
You know what?
Yeah, I did, because first of all,
it's an important protective style.
And as we know when we are public figures,
we're getting our hair fried and died and all of that.
And my goal for the eight years is just,
let me have some hair in my head when it's over.
So yeah, I thought about getting braids,
but it's like I knew it would be a thing, right?
I mean, when I got bangs cut, it was front page news.
Just some bangs, right?
So, you know, and I used to tease my team.
I was like, you know, I'm thinking about braids
and folks would be like, oh, oh, oh.
Oh.
Would it be like crickets in the room?
You know, it would be misinterpreted.
They would be terrorist braids.
They would be called on the head, like revolutionary braids.
What is Michelle Obama trying to say about her anti-American stance?
So I thought, you know, they got enough to deal with us just because we black.
So I figured, let me keep my hair straight, you know.
I love the braids because I was thinking, I wonder what would happen guys if I showed
up in CBS with braids?
I think they'd be saying, um, and the reason why I say that.
I think you should try a gale.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna say,
Michelle Obama said so.
And I will come, I will come in.
I'll be like,
what?
Don't say nothing about her braids.
And I want to applaud young women.
Yeah.
Are really owning all of who we are with our hair.
I think this generation is really what's opening up.
You guys are doing your locks and your sister twist
and your hoody-doodle and all of that.
And I am just here for it because we
got to bring all of our full selves into our spaces. So thank you.
I know because I remember Michelle once I wore my hair just curly. We were covering the
Super Bowl and a Muckety Muck and CBS said to me, oh that's interesting. Your hair.
Are you going to wear it like that? That's interesting. What do you think the translation of
that that's interesting? Are you going to wear it like that tomorrow? It's like they've got to be able to understand our hair.
It's like it's not a huge day.
It's not a huge day.
I was so excited.
I love this page 73.
She says, to this day, I remain a little shocked
that Barack and I managed to land our flying motorcycle.
We made it through eight years in the White House,
but somehow we did.
The bad news is that it hasn't eliminated fear and doubt
in my life, the good news is that I'm not intimidated
by my own thoughts anymore.
Isn't that good?
That's page 73.
And that is a practice in kids asking the thought of,
don't you?
But how do you have to understand how you, Michele?
We all have doubt.
We all have doubt.
We don't admit it. And I don't want to you, Michele. We all have doubt. We all have doubt. We don't admit it.
And I don't want to be too sexist,
but men are the least likely to admit it.
And y'all know you scare it.
You know you scare it all the time,
but you're not supposed to pretend to be scared.
We all have doubt because we live in a society
that places it, especially if you're a woman,
if you're a woman of color, that we have been getting signals our whole lives
that we are not good enough, that we're not worthy,
and to pretend like that doesn't hurt.
You know, because I don't want to pretend
like it doesn't hurt, because I want people to stop doing that.
I don't want people to speak so blankly
and to say certain things and think that it doesn't hurt.
And if I sit up here saying, no, it doesn't bother me at all.
Then, you know, that gives people permission to keep doing it.
It is, so yes, I have grown up without.
I've grown up with fear.
I've grown up with this, am I getting it right,
wanting to be perfect?
And still feel, you still feel, you still feel perfect.
Absolutely.
Do you feel you still feel, you still feel happy. Absolutely.
Do you feel you still have something to prove?
I don't think I have anything to prove.
I think excellence is now my habit.
You know?
Oh, I love that.
Excellence is now my habit.
But for young people, that's the thing.
Excellence is a thing you practice.
You practice who you want to be every single day.
I try to tell my girls this.
If you want to be a professional and be on time,
you got to start doing that when you're seven and nine.
You don't wait until you get in position to try to show up.
So I have been practicing getting things right for a long time.
I so believe that.
I don't know how to be late.
I don't know how to, you know.
When I say punctual, they told me, we will come and get you at 809.
You will go down to see Mrs. Obama at 811.
You will take a picture at 815.
And that guys is exactly what happened.
So when I said, you know, punctuality, but I agree with you.
I remember when, favorite daughter, Kirby, favorite son,, but I agree with you. I remember when,
favorite daughter, Kirby, favorite son,
well, I would always say to them,
if you had a homework assignment
and you were supposed to only do three things, do five,
get your homework in early,
you know, always do more than what is expected of you.
I just wanted them to start life that way.
That's right.
But this is a thing,
I didn't realize this in the book
that you moved into the White House
in nine weeks.
From the time they won, think about that.
She said, we needed a pencil box for Sasha, a ball gown for me, we needed a toothbrush holder,
and oh yeah, an economic rescue package.
That you're moving to a city where you don't really know very many people, and that in nine
weeks, Michelle, you had to turn that around.
And I think probably that shorter than that because the election was November, we had to
change the girl's school and the semester started right at the first of the year.
The inauguration was until until January to January,
which is also why all of this is inconvenient for families.
The whole presidential thing is
in structured for a family.
But so I had to get them to DC to start school in January,
even though we wouldn't have access to the home
we were supposed to be living in until the day
of inauguration.
Because I didn't want my kids starting a new school.
They already would have to start in the middle
of the school year.
I didn't want them to start late after the middle.
The break after Christmas was when school would start, right?
So we had to get there even earlier than that.
We lived in the Hay Adams Hotel.
They were like, you know, who's that little girl
that lives in the hotel?
El Reyes.
That's her name.
At the plaza.
They lived like Eloise for three weeks out of suitcases
because we couldn't move into the White House.
You get literally one day to move in.
The day that the president...
They're moving out the same day.
Sitting president leaves. His stuff goes out one door,
your stuff comes in, and in the middle of the parade,
and all that, you see that pomp and circumstance,
they're moving our stuff in.
But the kids have been in school for three weeks
before inauguration.
So we've tried so hard to create a sense of normalcy
for the kids, to keep them on a schedule,
to keep them feeling with the abnormal, crazy thing we put them
through that they were just regular kids.
You always made that clear that your main priority
was your children.
This was very wonderful being in the White House and being, but your main concern is for your children. This was very wonderful being in the White House and
being, but your main concern is for your children. I can remember when you were
campaigning said I want to do something in the morning and get back I want to be
back when the kids go to bed and I was always in awe of that.
I am Kristen Jones I'm co-founder and partner in SI projects, and I am Mrs. Obama's former
assistant from the White House and also a friend. So when I think about what I've gained from the
experience of not just working with Michelle, but also being her mentee and building a really deep
friendship with her, I think one of the biggest things I've gained is just a
multi-generational friend group. How much the wisdom of Michelle and her friends
who are all mentors to me has helped me evolve that what I think is a much more
rapid rate than it would have been if I did not have those women in my life.
This includes everything from calling Dr. Malone if I have a doctor's appointment and something
is confusing to me or calling me shell-nourished if I'm having writer's block or I'm trying
to figure out something with how I do a presentation.
All of these women are there for me and I think I've just learned that it's been really beneficial to have women who can consistently help me zoom
out and see the bigger picture about things that are happening in my life
versus having to process everything through the lens of what I am
immediately experiencing and what I have experienced so far in life. They
lend me their life experience in a really loving and gracious way.
We'll be right back with more of my discussion with Gail.
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Now, it's your turn.
So let's get into it.
In the spirit of the light podcast, Starbucks is shining a light on the kindness we see
every day in our stores.
This is a real story shared by Rian, a store manager.
A week after buying her first home, Rian almost lost it all to a forest fire.
Fortunately, her community was spared thanks to the heroic efforts of the local firefighters.
Rian started delivering five pound bags of coffee to our local stations,
alongside notes of appreciation from customers and employees.
Other Starbucks stores in the region quickly adopted
the practice in their own neighborhoods. I just thought to myself, how incredibly lucky are we to
have these firefighters, because they don't just save houses, they save dreams, they saved what I
was trying to create for my son. A wonderful reminder that a little kindness is never really little.
Here's more of my conversation with Gail King.
In the book about Sasha and Malia, the truth is, you say, on page 155,
I'm hoping our daughters won't rush out of the flea market stage of life.
I love this analogy that you make about the flea market stage.
What does that mean?
This is when you try on a bunch of stuff, you know, you try and out life.
And that's an important stage to figure out who you are on your own, to be able to know
that you can stand on your own.
But I want them to try and do.
Oh, absolutely.
They're 21 and 24.
Yeah.
You know, it's like, you need to know all that's out there.
You need to know who you're going to be in a relationship.
I, you know, it takes a minute.
And life is long if you're lucky, right?
And all this Russian, young people Russian
to be grown, Russian to get married,
oh, slow down because it's waiting for you.
And when you get there, you'll be like, is this it?
Yeah.
Is this what I was rushing to?
So take your time.
I want them to work.
I want them to grow.
I want them to live on their own.
I want them to learn how to pay bills. I want them to have their I want them to grow. I want them to live on their own. I want them to learn how to pay bills.
I want them to have their heart broken and get over it.
And that takes some time.
And if you're so focused on trying to match up,
and if we only define happiness, especially for women,
is you get married and you have children.
It just narrows things.
And I have just seen so many amazing women who have
chosen not to be married or have kids who are perfectly happy and content. So and if you
can't, if you don't find that partner, right, if you aren't able to have kids, I don't want
my children's life to be dependent upon a choice that is out of their control and I don't want my children's life to be dependent upon a choice that is out of their control.
And I don't want them to just pick anybody to say, oh, I'm married, right?
Yes.
Because too many of us do that.
I also invite freezing eggs to just to take off some of the pressure.
Yeah, take off some of the pressure.
But I marvel too at how you raise them
because they are both so lovely, both of them.
I was on a flight with Sasha and she was by herself
and we arrived from Martha's Vineyard to New York.
And we landed in New York and they'd sent a cart
to get me because I like a cart to take me to Baggage Claim
because you're in East Jesus.
You're in East Jesus. Now, have you guys been to the airport when you walk a friggin' mile
and a half to get to Baggage Claim?
So I don't mind paying whatever cost
to have the card come meet me.
It's not that I'm not capable, but I'm
schlepping all this stuff.
So Sasha was on the plane.
I said, Sasha, you have a card.
And she was doing a connecting flight.
I said, you know, the card can take you.
And she goes, I actually prefer connecting flight. I said, you know, the cart can take you and she goes,
I actually prefer to walk.
I went, okay, she goes, no, I actually prefer to walk.
I just like being out and I was so struck by that.
You know, it's not, she just said, no, no, no,
and I said, okay, she goes, I'm good, I'm good.
You know, she had on her mask.
So it's like being in good tell.
I don't like to hear that they're out there
spending money like they have it.
But she got, but they are good girls.
It struck me that she said, no, I just want to walk.
I'm good.
What would you say that they say their experience
at the White House was for them?
Because they are interbubble.
And how do you make friends?
And how you really did keep them so normal?
I would imagine you guys had some bumps or something.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, parenting out loud is, you know,
parenting in front of the world.
Yes.
Not an easy thing.
But I treated parenting my girls like my parents
parented me.
I wanted them to be independent early.
I wanted them to be able to wake themselves up,
make their own beds.
You know, they had to do their own homework.
There was no helicoptering because I wanted them to rise
and fall on their own merits.
You know, how did they learn to drive?
That we instructed, you have to kind of instruct
the secret service to say the kids have to learn how to drive.
So we bought them one car, the secret service.
What kind of car was it?
It's a super-rue.
In fact, Sasha still has it.
She does?
She has decorated it with like cow cushions.
And I mean, God knows what, it looks crazy.
But she's driving the same car that they shared in high school.
So Malia was first up to drive.
And so, the agents would take them to the Secret Service
Driving Range for their initial test to get them
to drive.
The Secret Service Driving Range.
There is a driving race.
But they went and they taught them how to drive.
And then they got their permits.
And then I said, and once they have their permits,
they have to drive.
So, an agent would be next to them. So, I knew that they, they have to drive. So an agent would be next to them.
So I knew that they were learning how to drive.
So in the car, an agent was with them.
In their car, right?
And we had to make this happen.
Because I was like, when this is over,
they're going to be out in the world.
And they have to know how to drive,
get through an airport by their own tickets.
They don't get, you know, they are not first daughters
forever.
That's done.
But fast forward to 2022, they're now roommates. I love that they're roommates. They are not first daughters forever, that's done.
But fast forward to 2022, they're now roommates.
I love that they're roommates.
They're roommates.
They're roommates, Sasha are roommates.
They actually like each other.
And that is a big win as a parent,
because they didn't like each other for a while.
And I was like, it's coming.
It is coming. I guarantee you, because a three-year age difference,
when you're seven and ten, that guarantee you, because a three-year age difference, you know, when you're seven
and ten, that's like, ugh, you know, but now that they're 24 and 21, Sasha is a little
less crazy, Malia is more patient, and they are the best of them.
But I always say with siblings, if all goes according to plan, the siblings will know
you longer than anybody else.
Hopefully, you know, your parents will go before you do.
So the bond that the two of you have is like no other.
And for them to have gone through this unique experience
together, that no one understands their share trauma,
their shared joy, the interesting trips
that they were forced to go on, the sites that they saw, the people they met.
The people that they met, oh my God.
No one else can relate to that.
So it's good that they have each other.
I'm Jessica.
I'm Nicole.
We're identical.
We're identical twins.
We're really close.
We live together, we're together.
We have the same interests.
Sometimes it can be a lot,
but we're each other's biggest
cheerleaders, so it helps having each other around, especially when things get, you know,
we did core and scene together, yes, it was. I think overall I just felt really grateful
to have her there because things got really scary and you know it's easy to forget now
I can 2020, we were dying for human connection.
And so having my sister with me, I think, really helped
help get each other through it.
Yeah.
We've learned to get along really well,
I think individually through therapy appointments.
Yeah.
So I think if we're going to be quarantined with anybody,
we were good choice for each other to be locked up together.
So we'll be right back with more of my discussion with Gail.
You're listening to the Audible original Michelle Obama The Light Podcast.
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You tell a funny story about, you know,
they have their own apartment and you were FaceTiming
and you saw, I think it was Sasha.
It was, I was FaceTiming with Sasha.
So this is, we talk about making home, right?
And one of the funnest things is when you see your adult
children starting to make their own home.
Yes.
And they have the apartment together.
And I'm face timing with Sasha.
And Malia is, she's got the swiffer thing
that goes on the mop.
She has it in her hand.
And she's, and I'm like, hold up, Sasha.
It's like, Malia, what are you doing?
She's like, I'm pre-dusting.
I was like, OK, first of all, I'm like, you're dusting.
Whoa, impressed. But I said, you know, there's no need to pre-dust.
Have you ever heard of pledge?
And she was like, tell me more about this pledge.
It comes in a yellow cam.
It comes in a yellow cam.
There's a limited to limited fresh.
And she says, see the thing about dust, mom, you dust one day.
And it comes back the next day.
And I said, yeah, that's the tricky thing about dust.
I said, but with pledge, you pick it up.
And she's like, fascinating.
So it's just fun watching them take care of their stuff
better than they took care of your stuff.
You know, it's so dope.
You dust your stuff.
We went over for cocktails for them.
They made us drinks in a chard-hooterie tray.
First of all, they complained about the price of cheese,
which is like, we didn't know.
We didn't know how much these things cost.
And then we had our drinks, they were like,
ah, get a coaster.
That was like, see they learned.
Did they use a coaster?
They didn't use a single coaster in the people's house.
They didn't care about the people's house.
They didn't care about the people's house.
But they care about their house.
What is a song, not that you like,
but a song that you think represents who you are.
Or is it, because mine is walking on sunshine.
I'm so, when I say I'm so happy, I'm walking,
that is, yeah.
Now let me tell you something about Gale. I am so happy. Yeah, it's just so sunshine. That is cool. Yeah. Now let me tell you something about Gail.
I am so old.
Yeah.
You just so great.
That's why you don't have any wrinkles.
No.
You are.
In the morning, I don't know Michelle.
I got a good clam team.
I got a good clam team.
I got a good clam team.
I got a good clam team.
I've never thought about a song that was a song.
You know that's just sort of, well, you don't have to have an answer.
I don't have a theme song.
So all my theme songs are Beyonce songs, which have nothing to do with anything.
But the title is The Light We Carry.
Could you just leave us with The Light We Carry means what to you and what do you want
the audience to take away for meeting your book The Light We Carry.
We all have it.
We all, as I said, were born with it.
But we have to learn how to nurture it for ourselves.
We can't wait for other people to nurture our light
because they may not have it in them.
They may not be broken in ways that we don't even know.
That's where empathy comes in.
So you can't rely too much on other people.
It starts from with here.
It is, yes, yes.
And for us who have any access to kids in our lives,
we can help them see their light.
With just our kindness, our gladness, our acceptance,
our warmth, our goal should be building each other's lights up.
Yes.
And we, and feeling like we have that obligation to each other,
because we will all prosper.
We do not flourish in the darkness.
So, use your tools, find them, share them,
explore them for yourselves, use this book as a guide,
but write your own guide book,
and then talk about it with each other, talk about what works for you, what, book as a guide, but write your own guide book, and then talk
about it with each other. Talk about what works for you, what more we need. We have to stay
hopeful. There isn't a choice, and if we wonder why we think about the next generation,
I stay hopeful because our kids require us to be hopeful. There is no choice. And we
can do this, you all. We've done it before. We are a good people through and through.
White, black, I don't care what.
I have met people all over the world,
and everyone is just trying to be seen and heard and recognized.
We don't have to agree, but we have to treat each other
with decent sales.
And I think we can do better.
Yes.
We can do that.
Michelle Obama, we thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Kills. Thank you, Kills.
Thank you, Kills.
Thank you, Kills.
When a wake up in the morning, low.
All of us are born with a light.
And then life happens.
And we develop these fears and anxieties
that try to mess with it.
I was lucky enough to grow up with parents who saw me,
who nurtured me, who
kindled that light. And that's what I'm trying to do for my girls. But that
doesn't mean the world never dim my light and it doesn't mean it won't dim
their light from time to time either. Because like I said, the one thing that's
guaranteed in life is uncertainty. And when it comes, our light is our life jacket.
It's our reminder that we are capable of overcoming fear and anxiety and hardship.
And now that I'm not with them every day, brushing their teeth and tucking them in at night,
more than anything else, that's what I want, Malia and Sasha to remember.
And that's what I hope you all remember too.
You can do this thing, this thing called life.
We can do this.
We've just got to keep kindling the flame within ourselves
and within each other.
Thanks again for listening. And thank you, Gail,
for shining your light too.
I'll talk to you soon.
["Dangelo, Dangelo, Dangelo, Dangelo"]
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Location recording by Jody Elf.
Special thanks to Melissa Winter, Jill Van Lokerin, Crystal Carson, Alex May Ceeley, Haley
Ewing, Marone Highly-Messkel, Sierra Tyler, Carl Ray, and Jerry Radway, Meredith Koop,
Sarah Corbett, Tyler Leckonberg, and Usra Najum.
The theme song is unstoppable by Sia.
The closing song is lovely day by Bill Withers.
Audible head of U.S. content, Rachel Giazza, head of Audible Studios, Zola Masheriki.
Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC.
Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC.
Voice over by Novina Carmel. This episode was recorded live at the Met in Philadelphia. It always seems to know the way Then I look at you