Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Gayle King

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Television titan Gayle King reflects on her and her mama’s tight-knit relationship including her upbringing in Turkey and then Maryland. Gayle famously doesn’t cook, but she shares not one… but TWO recipes with us. Her mama’s traditional Mac & Cheese and her famous Thanksgiving Jello Dessert.Gayle King is a TV personality and broadcast journalist. She’s about to host a new, weekly primetime show on CNN with Charles Barkely set to launch this fall. She’s received the Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in Journalism. Before this, she co-hosted CBS’s flagship morning program, CBS Mornings beginning in 2012. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Living in Turkey breakfast was not a big deal and I went to my friend Halle's house and I had 13 pieces of bread and you know they kept asking me would you like more and didn't occur to me to stop after say number four and when I went and told my mom she was mortified she called them up and was very apologetic and said, I'm so sorry, but I didn't know as a little kid. They kept asking, I said, mom, they kept asking me. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Welcome to Your Mama's Kitchen, the podcast that explores how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens we grew up in as kids.

I'm Michele Norris. The kitchen is the emotional heartbeat of our homes. So many important things happen there. Meals, memories, laughter, and sometimes tough stuff. All of it simmers inside us forever and shapes who we become in interesting and sometimes surprising ways. The kitchen is the most important room in the home, even for folks who don't like to cook all that much, and that includes our guest today.

Gail King. You know Gail King, she's a Titan of television broadcasting, going head-to-head with big-name politicians, artists, and controversial figures who find themselves on the hot seat. Well, that's not the topic of today's conversation. We're here to talk about Gail, and she always handles herself with grace and grit. She gets high ratings and high marks because she pulls interesting answers out of people. Gail, Kang, I'm so glad that we could do this together. Hi, Michelle. I'm so glad to see you. Thank you for asking me seriously.

Thank you for rolling off the air. I'm only here because it's you. Oh, well, thank you. I will just put that out. Now I feel, say that again. I will. I'm sure that you're because of Michelle. Actually, I'm on my way to the airport and I delayed my flight an hour and a half so I could be here with you. Okay. Now I'm feeling you're I'm puffed up.

I'm getting tuffy in my chair here. Woo. Well, this is a show where we talk to people about their mama's kitchens. Okay. And you have had an interesting path in life because you spent time in Chevy Chase, you spent time overseas in Ankara, Turkey,

you spent time in the Bay area. When I ask that question, what kitchen does your mind first go to? Tell me about your mama's kitchen. Well, I struggled with this because my mom was an okay cook. I actually called my sisters to say, do you guys remember? You have three sisters, right?

Yeah, I have three sisters. I'm the oldest of three girls. And I've been told that I'm bossy, but I like to think I have executive skills, but I am the oldest of four girls. And because I said, guys, I really don't have any stories about the kitchen. And they said, don't you remember when they went, oh, yeah, yeah, then I did remember. I did wonder what did they remind you? Well, Thanksgiving was a big deal because she did all the cooking, but you know, she did all the cooking always. She had a thing that we always each had to slap the turkey before it went in the oven.

Wait, what? Yes, exactly right. Right. Was this slap the turkey? Was this superstition? Was it because my mom said, I think that was just her way of engaging us. She said that it made the turkey more tender. And so we would all have to come in the kitchen, line up and do a...

On a raw turkey. Yeah, you know, he was all based in all that good stuff. We would all slap it and she said that would make it more tender. And now all of my sisters do that with their kids and their family. Yes, they can. Yes, they can. The turkey. Okay.

And there are going to be people all over America slapping the turkeys on because my mom said that it made it more tender. Okay. So I do remember that. I do remember we used to have on Saturday night, it was a family game night. So we played games like sorry. Do you remember sorry? I remember sorry.

Cheesy. I was always yellow. Yellow to this day is still my favorite color. I always wanted to be the yellow one. I love yellow because it's a color of sunshine and butter. The two things are like very much. Two things are like very much. I make notes, juices.

I love yellow. My kitchen is yellow. It just, it's a color that just makes me happy. But Saturday night we had game night. And the dinner every Saturday was the same. I had forgotten about this till my sister Sharon reminded me. The dinner was always the same Saturday night. Guess what it was. Because I read a little bit about you, I think I know the answer.

I don't think I've ever talked about it. So let's see what you have. Was it sloppy jokes? Yeah. How did you know that? Because you have talked about it. You were quoted as saying Saturday was sloppy jokes. Really? Yeah. When did I do that? I don't remember the date. But I do remember that you said something about sloppy jokes. Well, you were absolutely right. And it's not me because I love sloppy jokes. I do that? I don't remember the date, but I do remember that you said something about sloppy joes Absolutely right and it's not because I love sloppy joes. I do too So next time we eat together, I'm serving you sloppy joes

I love sloppy joes So that was what you had every Saturday night. Yeah, sloppy joes and game night. Yes Every Saturday weekends Sunday we always had a great Sunday breakfast That was coffee cake a scrambled eggs with cheese and bacon. We had really great breakfasts. Maybe that's why breakfast is still my favorite meal, even today.

I very seldom get to eat it because I have these terrible clad out days when I got you three-sep in the morning. You get up at two, thirty, three o'clock, four? Three, 24. Okay. I get up to three, 24. There's a method to my madness.

Why is it three, 24? Because there's something that I watch on a competing channel that comes on at 325. And so I always set my alarm for 324 so I can watch this thing. And then I have three snoozes on my alarm. And then I'm off to the races because I bathe. I took a bath this morning. You'll be glad to know. But breakfast today is still one of my favorite meals.

And you can do that on the weekends. Yeah. Yeah. So your mom liked to make big breakfast coffee. She did. Did she make the coffee cake? Well, it was Cerely. Yeah. Okay. Cerely coffee cake goes. I love those little bucks. Yeah. It was Cerely. But I loved her scrambled eggs and cheese, and I loved her bacon. And then we would have sometimes pancakes too. And then we would have sometimes pancakes too. So you lived in Turkey as a child because your father was stationed there? My father was an electronic engineer who worked for the government. Okay.

So there's been all sorts of speculation, oh, you know your father was CIA. I have never been told that. I was never aware of that. But in Turkey, we lived in a neighborhood. We lived in a regular neighborhood. That's why I know my address. Otu Stokas, which stands for 39, iten Sokaka, Sokaka Street. Maybus Evladi is the name of the neighborhood. I can only remember a Marhabah Nazelsiness, which is, hello, how are you? So whenever I get into a car and if the driver happens to be Turkish,

if ever I'm at a party and someone says, I'm from Turkey, I go, they're hominous, and then they start talking. I go, that's really all I know. But I'm very proud of myself that I even remember that. But what was like going to school in Turkey as an American kid? Well, I was at American school, so I really didn't know the difference. And when you're in first grade, you're just sort of rolling with the punches. I didn't even have a great appreciation for living in Turkey. You know, when you're little, you just go where your mom and dad are. You don't look at the global experience. I remember traveling as a kid. We did a lot

of traveling vacation was in Greece or Paris. And I can remember saying to my dad, why we're at the acropolis, why do we have to sit here and look at these rocks? It's so hot. Why can't we just go back to the hotel and go swimming? And he said, one day you'll appreciate it. And I do. I look at the picture, I go, this is me in sixth grade. I was in the acropolis. But living in Turkey, breakfast was not a big deal. And they had continental breakfast. So it was just a little bread and some tea, tea. And I went to my friend Halle's house and I had 13 pieces of bread, little things. And you know, they kept asking me, would you

like more? And didn't occur to me to stop after say number four. And in America, we're used to these truck driver breakfasts. Yeah, we're used to. So I was hungry. And when I went and told my mom these truck driver breakfasts. Yeah, we're used to. So I was hungry. And when I went and told my mom, she was mortified. She called them up and was very apologetic and said, I'm so sorry. She, you know, but I didn't know as a little kid. They kept asking, I said, mom, they kept asking me.

Oh, you didn't want to offend and turn something down. I wasn't even thinking about offending. I was just thinking, yes, I'm still hungry. So yes, please keep it coming please So you live there until sixth grade and Your parents then moved back to the state. Yeah, so we were in Chevy Chase. Yeah, we were in Chevy Chase, Maryland Yeah, we were there We weren't there very long because we were there maybe 18 months because I went to junior high in high school in California

In mental parks. So from seventh grade to 12th grade, I remember they did a story in the newspaper about our family being an American family who had just moved from Turkey and they were talking about East West influences. And I remember the photographer coming in and taking pictures and we all had to wear dresses that day and my mom saying, you know, sit here. I do remember that. But California, I ultimately want to end up in California, by the way, I still love California.

That's what we can appreciate. We can be there and go all together. Yes, that's what I want to land. It's cliche to say, either weather or the weather, but the weather, the weather is so fantastic. And the vibe is just very different. Most of my formative years, I would say, would be from seventh grade to being in California. I can see that because we're together.

You smile in a different way when you talk about California. Yeah, you do. I can see that those are those are good memories. Tell me about that kitchen. Describe it for me and tell me about your mom in control in that particular. Well, it was a very open kitchen, which is sort of the California lifestyle. My dad traveled a lot. And I remember when daddy was away, we always got to go to McDonald's and we thought that was a great treat. I also remember coming back from Turkey being told,

you talk funny, you're black, but you talk funny. Why do you talk like a white girl? I was called Aunt Sarah, I was called Oreo, all that stuff. By the black kids. By the black kids, yeah. Yeah, and I- And I- Yeah, why do you talk funny?

And I- Yeah, and I remember deliberately flunking a test, getting a D, because I couldn't bring myself to get a F, getting a D, because I thought that would make, because I said, you think you're so smart, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my dad saying to me, now I know you know this. He used to call me GP because my middle name is Patrice. So he would call me GP.

I know you know this. So why did you get a D? I said, because I just wanted the kids to like me. And then he said, well, did they like you any better now? I went, no, yes. Well, don't do that anymore. Life lesson. Yeah, don't do that anymore. Life lesson. Yeah.

It was a life lesson. There's a little picture I keep in a drawer just to kind of remind me. I don't know if you sometimes need to get in touch with that young person or no, it's going to be okay. You know. And it's a picture of me with glasses, braces, and afro puffs. Oh, very cute. Uh-huh.

Not cute at all. And for a while, a head gear, you know, that went out with Uh-oh, very cute. Uh-uh. Not cute at all. And for a while, a headgear, you know, that went out with that. So, you know, but look at you now, a stunt at the end. Yeah, but it's all paid off. It's, you know, the glasses are the braces, the afro puffs, you know. We get through it. I went through it in terms of, I look at black and white pictures of me. Maybe I was fourth grade because I was told your lips are fuller as a little black kid.

There's pictures of me literally biting my lips because I'm thinking, God, my lips are a little big cat eye glasses, not you. Headband and bangs that rolled up like this. Oh, I think that's the bangs. The bangs that you slept with, the little sponge with, that was pink. That was pink. That was pink. Yes.

I had one of those. Yeah. A little sausage roll on top of your forehead. I had one of those. And now people are paying to get lips like mine. Yeah, they're paying to get a side mine. Which I think is kind of funny. Tuesday appointment, you get lip injections.

Which is kind of funny to me. You know, when you go through a tough period like that, the kitchen can be the refueling station, the place where you sit at that Lennon Liam table or whatever table, wooden table, whatever it was. And your siblings, even if they made fun of you, they're your posse. Yeah. You know, your mom serves up something that makes you feel good, you know, at the end of the day. Was that a sort of emotional follow-up shelter for you that space? No, I honestly wouldn't say that because I didn't come home with a lot of self trauma.

So I really didn't. I think for whatever reason it didn't weigh me down. So when I came home, I was just happy to be home. My mom was always there. She did not work outside of the house. She did not. It's interesting. My parents met at Howard University and my mother was planning to go to law school. And then she thought that she had a tumor, and the tumor turned out to be me. And so I often wonder what her life would have been like. Then she was a stay-at-home mom. And I know that part of her was very frustrated,

because I know that she always wanted to do more and could be more. And she ended up working later on in life. She was a secretary for a big muckety muck. But I always know that she thought she was so much bigger than that and had it not been for me, because then it started the ball rolling, what her life would have been like. She was always very smart, always a really good writer, but she was always glad for her to be there when we came home for us. For us. And I can remember I was on some kind of

cheerleading or drill team or something or if there was a class project, I would, my mom could do it, my mom could do it without ever thinking, does she want to do it? I say, you were volunteering your mom all the time. My mom could do it, my mom could do it. And I would ask her and she would say, sure. And she never said, you know, you need to stop volunteering me.

Never. It was only later in life when I had my own children where I went, this is a lot of frigate work. Yeah, but you know, that's a gift that she was able to do that with you. Exactly right. Because on the other side of the corner, you're working with your mom,

you're thinking, I wish I could go on that filter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish I could be there for biological character day. I wish I could be there to help the kids get in their Halloween costumes. So that was it. All good for both of you. Also too.

That you could be together. I read somewhere that you had said that you were talking to a friend of yours who had just written a book about grief and she had asked you what your kids knew about your mom. Yes, I know. And you thought that they actually knew a lot because your mom passed away. Exactly. They were little guys.

They were so young that they really didn't get to spend a lot of time with us. Your friend who had written the book had asked the kids, well, what do you remember about Gales' mom? And you were surprised to realize that they didn't remember as much as you thought. Yeah. Because you hadn't talked about her. Right. Right.

And what they did remember wasn't good. What they remembered was she smoked a lot and you didn't like it. That's what they remembered. Isn't it interesting what kids hear? Yes. Because I'm thinking, oh, surely they knew the part when my mom drove us here and when we did this

and we did that. And it was so interesting that they said, we just remember she smoked a lot and you didn't like it. Well, it's true. She did smoke a lot and I didn't like it. And then when they said that, I went, whoa, I got to do a better job, you know, of telling them. They did get to meet her, but they were so young. They don't really have real concrete memories.

That's why, as I said here today, you know, favorite daughter Kirby's had a son, my first grandson. I could eat this kid up, Luca, who's now 19 months. We've all got to meet him thanks to Instagram. He is just delicious. Oh, I could eat him up. I just saw him this past weekend. He just makes my heart sing about everything. But my biggest wish now is that I live long enough that he gets to have a sense of me. Like if I go now, he won't really remember me. He won't. And Kirby and Will, they were like four and five,

four and five, two or three, but they don't really remember. They don't really remember. You know, they've seen pictures and that kind of thing, but it's not the same. And I just, I've already said to Kirby, I wanna be the one to take him to Lion King. I called Dips on that.

So I'm just hoping that, you know, I live long enough for that. And now it's time to share our makers that. And now it's time to share our Makers Mart custom cocktail recipe inspired by today's guest, Gail King. This special segment is presented by Makers Mart. As I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, Gail is known for her big, bright personality. She's the kind of person you want to sit next to

at the dinner table, the kind of person you want to hang out with. The maker's Mark Cocktail recipe created in her honor mirrors that special personality with a combination of vibrant and bold citrus flavors. The punch comes out a beautiful bright yellow. Gail's favorite color is, she said in the episode, yellow is the color of sunshine and butter. Two things she happens to like very much.

It's a color that just makes you happy. So let's bring some sunshine into our lives and make this punch. To get started, you'll need two parts, Makersmart bourbon, one part pineapple juice, three quarter part orange la cor. 2 parts Makers Mark Bourbon, 1 part Pineapple Juice, 3 1 1-4 part, lime juice, and agave. All that into the shaker. And shake until it's all well-chilled. Strain the mixture into a glass filled with ice and finally garnish with a pineapple slice. There it is, the bright bourbon punch. Cheers to

our guest for inspiring us to make this flavorful cocktail. And thank you so much to Maker's Mark for sponsoring this custom cocktail recipe produced by ACAS Creative. Maker's Mark is the perfect bourbon for this. The taste is sweet with the balance of oak, vanilla and fruity essences. Maker's Mark is smooth with a pleasant soft spice and clean finish. It pairs delightfully well with the sweet and tropical fruit flavor of the pineapple, making this a delicious cocktail that creates a bright moment in your day.

Mekers Mark makes their bourbon carefully, so please enjoy it that way. Mekers Mark can tuck you straight bourbon whiskey, 45% Alcohol by Volume, Copyright 2023 Makeers Mark Distillery Incorporated, Loretto Kentucky. If you'd like to make this recipe yourself and I hope you do, check out my Instagram at Michelle underscore underscore Norris to get the full breakdown that's two underscores. That's Michele, M-I-C-H-E-L-E, underscore, underscore, N-O-R-R-I-S. Thank you. You're listening to the Audible original, your mom is kitchen. Like what you're hearing, the next episode is available now, exclusively from Audible. You can listen to new exclusively from Audible.

You can listen to new episodes on Audible two weeks before you can hear them anywhere else. Your mother's name is Peggy. Peggy, yeah. Peggy Tucker King. There was this picture she's a very pretty woman. She was. There's a picture of picture. She's a very pretty woman. She was. There's a picture of her. She's in a white dress.

Yes. You know, the picture. I'm talking about it in California. It looks like it was snapped for Harper's Bazaar. It has little fur cut things. Yes. Oh, I know that. I love that picture.

She gave the slate. She and my dad were going out that night. She was always very elegant, always very classy. I know that picture very well. She had her hair up in like a bun. Yeah, tell me more about her. The beauty of my mother, that when she died, we all thought we were her favorite daughter.

She was so good. We all thought we were the favorite because we all have individual stories about, well, I called her and she said, when I needed she was at it at us. So we all thought we stories about, well, I called her and she said, when I needed she was at it, at it. So we all thought we were her favorite daughter. And I think that just says everything. I personally don't have a favorite,

because I think between Kirby and Will, my heart breaks and aches for both of them. But I know many parents, I know many parents who actually do have a favorite, but we all thought we were her favorite. I love that you're so close to Kirby and Will. You travel with him that, you know. We get to watch you,

we're not allowed through the wonders of Instagram. And so we see you out in the world. You know it's funny, Oprah told me years ago, your children are adults. They do not like traveling with you. I go, I beg to differ. We have the best time.

My kids love traveling with me. Because we really, we really actually like each other, love each other and like being together. Yeah. I see you guys too. Yeah. Hello, pot.

Yeah. Hello, pot. I'm talking to you. We're called the no joes. No, I've seen you guys. You guys are traveling together. You get it. Well, you know, one of the things I realize is that if you don't do that, you miss out on

the opportunity to get to know them at this really interesting stage of life. Yes. You know, I actually, I'm glad they still like us and they still want this really interesting stage. Stage. I'm glad they still like us and they still want to roll with us. Yes. And we still roll deep. And this is the thing. I loved every single stage. I really did.

I would think, well, this is my favorite stage. This is my favorite stage. Then you go on to the next stage and go, oh, I like this. And they are my favorite people to hang with. That's a beautiful thing. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ unusual, grueling hours. She travels a lot. She wanted the kitchen to be a special place in her home, just as it was when she was a kid, but learning how to cook just didn't come naturally. I'm just not a cook. A couple of times I have tried, like I got the recipe from Oprah chef Art Smith, who's a very good chef, because I thought I'm going gonna make Kirby's birthday cake from scratch.

I'm gonna follow Art's recipe. I swear to you, I followed that recipe to a team. And I was so proud of myself. I iced it myself, doubt it, doubt it, I happy birthday, Kirby. And she took her first bite. And she said, I could just tell by her face that she was swallowing.

And I said, what is it, Barrett? Is it missing something? And I know she had that nanosecond where should she be honest, or should she tell the truth? Kirby decided to tell the truth and said, it's just missing flavor. Could I have some water or missing food?

And so needless to say, then I went and bought a cake. So even though you don't cook or bake, I'm wondering if the kitchen was still a very special place in your home. Well, I think everybody gathers in the kitchen, and I had the nerve when I was looking at houses to say, I want a big kitchen, because I knew that it would be a gathering place. I knew that I wanted all

the bells and whistles in the kitchen that I would never use. I knew that I wanted a big table. I knew that I wanted it to be very welcoming, you know, even though they had desk in their rooms, that's where kids did their homework. The TV was there in the kitchen. I mean, not to mention eating in the kitchen. When I moved into my apartment here in New York City to show you how I don't cook, I decided one day, you know, I'm gonna, let me use this oven. And I had made, I don't even remember what it is.

And I went to turn on the oven and it didn't come on. I went, oh, God, I mean, I have this single prepared. I went to preheat the thing and I called downstairs. And I said, you know, something's wrong with the oven. thing and I called downstairs and I said, you know, something's wrong with the oven. So the guy came up and he said, this king, it's not connected. I don't know what's connected. Wasn't wasn't plugged in or gas wasn't connected or something. It was gas. It wasn't connected. And he said, how long have you lived? I go three months. So I mean, that's how long it took me to discover that it didn't even boil water. No.

Okay, so you truly do not cook. That's what I'm saying. Not at all. No, I'm not making this up. Even though you don't cook, I thought you would be a great guest for the show, and I knew we would have a delicious conversation. Well, that's why I tried to get out of it. Because I'm not going to be good on your show.

But I believe that the kitchen is the heartbeat of the household. And even if cooking is not happening there, magic is still happening there. A lot of business happens in a kitchen. That's where you talk about what happened at the end of the day. It's where you come together. Did you do that with your kids? Did they still have meals together?

Oh, yes, you were cooking them. Yes, definitely. And we always had a thing about, because if you ask kids, how is your day? It's always fine. There's never any elaboration on that. When they were in junior high and high school, I drove them to school. Because you get a lot of accountants when you're in the car.

You do. I love being able to drive them to school. But at the end of the day, I think the Obama's called it Rose and Thorns. I called it what was the best part of your day, what was the worst part of your day. And that's always a good jumping off point to have a conversation because you can elaborate, well, why was that the best part? Why was that the worst part? And I always did enjoy that always. Did your parents do that with you?

No, I don't even know where I heard that. My dad did that. He did? Yeah, he would ask, what'd you learn today? Yeah, and we had to have an answer. Like you could say. I always wasn't, what did you learn? It was always, but that's a good question though. What did you learn today? Yeah, and we had to have an answer. Like you couldn't say. Yeah, I wasn't, what did you learn? It was always, but that's a good question though.

What did you learn today? It's good. So your dad did that? Yeah, every day, yeah. What did you learn today? Did you do that with your kids? A version of it. What was your version?

We would just talk. Brought her, can I generally eat later? We would sit down and have meals with the kids because they had to go to bed. And we were like skating home in time, to basically basically eat with them and then we together would have a meal Oh, you did so we had this like extended Table time, but we really wanted to have the time Together with the kids and we couldn't have them eating an eight o'clock as the journalist

I was on deadline until I know so no, you know I was on the air and I was like, you have two sets of ofceedings. Don't you you can you know, you clear the plates, you take them to bed and then you come down and then we'd have a meal. You did. Wow. Yeah, but that press that coming together at the table was really in a stable. Yeah. Very important to us. They come over on Sundays and we all get together. I had an editor once, Gail, who said that when he interviewed people he would always ask them about their family life and particularly their dining habits. And when I did the show it came back to me because he believed that a lot of journalists develop

their interviewing skills. Very early, either watching people talk at a table or figuring out how to get in a conversation or interrogating authority. So every so often I would apply that to journalists that I would meet. And I wondered if there was something in your career that blossomed from the conversations that you had as a family at the table. I had a business that was done in your kitchen. Not really.

No, I mean, for me, I was always a very chatty kid. I was always very curious and very inquisitive. But I don't think that came from the table. I was just always that kind of kid. My mom always used to say that, that I always had 50 million questions about everything. And I never felt that I had to elbow my way into a conversation at the dinner table. What's interesting to me is that my dad was one of these people that when he spoke you listen.

You know, if your mom said something, I'd go, well, why do we have to do that? Or I don't know if your dad said something that was it. And I can remember when I went to college and I came back and he said something. And I said, well, I just don't think that was it. And I can remember when I went to college and I came back and he said something and I said, well, I just don't think that's true. I don't even remember what it was. I just disagree with that.

I just don't think you're right. Now, he appeared to be very upset with me because I'd never challenged him, never, never. You just didn't do that. My mother told me later that he got the biggest kick out of that. So when we first contacted you about the story, you said, I don't have any stories to tell. I know. I don't have any recipes. That's what I said. And you were the only person that we've talked to so far, who not only provided. and that we've talked to so far, who not only provided, not just one recipe,

but two recipes, but you went into a recipe file and there are actually recipes that look like they're written in your mother's hand. I called my sister Karen because I don't have them. And so Karen, when I was talking to her, she said, you know, I actually have the recipe. I said, you do? She said, because, you know, she had written it down for me, Karen Cooks.

And when she sent me that, I went, oh my gosh, because you can tell it's been used quite a few times. Tell me about the recipes that you provide. Well, so we're going to share them with our listeners. You can find them at our website. Yeah. The macaroni and cheese. This is so funny.

We had W. Come out, Bell on this morning. He was wearing a T-shirt. No joke that said, all mac and cheese has not created equal. Come out bell on this morning. He was wearing a t-shirt. No joke that said, all mac and cheese has not created equal. And he's right about that. There are no lies detected. Yes. Exactly. But what's funny about this is Tony DeCopel who anchors with me, his white goes, what does that shirt mean? And Nate and I went, so you had to, you had to just take him to school. So it was so, because Nate and I started cracking up.

And when he asked him, Kamal was like, oh, I mean, he didn't quite know how to answer it. But Nate and I fell out. So the other black people who were in the studio, because we all know what that means, which leads me to like, my mom's Mac and cheese on Thanksgiving. Yeah, like you have a designated person that is trusted, yes, to bring the Mac and cheese. And. Yeah. You have a designated person that is arrested to bring the mac and cheese.

And my sister Karen can do it. Yes, you do not experiment. So Karen has a recipe. And I just remember it was cheesy, it was gooey. It had just the right amount of cheese to creamy consistency ratio. And I don't like the big thick noodles. The noodles have to be a certain size little elbow noodles. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I see some people do mac and cheese from show with regga toady. No. That's not mac and cheese. That's blasphemy. Or they

use a different kind of cheese. So the mac and cheese is stellar a plus plus plus. The other thing that I really like, this was a Thanksgiving staple. It's a jello mold and it sounds jello mold. That doesn't sound hard. No, but jello mold were a thing. They were a big thing. They were a big thing. Big thing.

So it's the jello mold with a jello. She would put cranberry in it because you've got to have cranberry sauce on Thanksgiving. I don't know if that was my mom's recipe or her mother's recipe, but that's something that any of us, when we make Thanksgiving, we all have that. I'm calling up the recipe. Okay. This is, I have a picture of it here.

It is a well-loved, well-used card. Looks like a three by five recipe card. I do think that's funny that she had that. Yeah. And it's got stains and it's browns and things. I think half the card is missing. It there is a little tear on the card. And you have to kind of figure some stuff out because it says big frozen strawberries. Yes. So I assume that's a big bag for some strawberries. Yes. Big strawberry jello. I guess one of the big boxes. The big boxes

yes. One cranberry sauce, assume that's a can of cranberry sauce. Remember, it comes out rolled. You know, where you just open, you let it slide out of the can. Oh, yes. And the one that kind of makes a noise. Yes, yes. When it comes out. When it comes out.

It varies. It has to be that gelatin one. Yes, yes, yes. Gelatinous kind of tube that comes out. That is it. And then one or two apples, she doesn't designate red or green. So I guess that's up to the person. Red. Red. Okay. Two cups boiling water.

I can do that. Add cranberry sauce. Because of cranberry melts in the boiling water. Okay, and then add the strawberries, which are frozen, and I guess they all Yes. Add the apples Pour in the mold and somehow the jello gets in there. She knows it's not noted here, but she knows when to put it in. And then up in the corner, it says crushed pineapple, which is written in a different,

look at a different time it looks like with a, with a pen. So she must have added that layer because in the beginning that wasn't there. Okay. So that she leveled up at some point and added some crushed pineapple. Have you ever made this dish? No. When did your mom serve the strawberry jello mold? Oh, all at the same time. Was that a special treat for holiday? It was only Thanksgiving. You know, and Thanksgiving dinner, we had a lot Thanksgiving, the mac and cheese, the dressing, the something green,

the rolls, ham. I mean, you name it, we had it. It was always a big, big spread Thanksgiving, but that's what made it so special, because we only got it that one day of the year. Macaroni and cheese, you could have it at other places. What kind of mold did your mom use? The kind, it was either round with a circle in the middle, metal, definitely metal. And it wasn't the fancy, dancing one, you know, where they have the ridges, it

was just a simple round mole with a simple hole in the middle. And you put it in hot water to release it to release the jello from the mold. You had to hear that when you turn it over, Michelle. It falls out very in that ring. And it doesn't come out gloppy at a time. We would sit it in the hot water. Funny, I do remember this. Put it in there and then flip it over and it was just a perfect circle. And it kind of jiu.

Yeah. It kind of did a little shake when it was on. A little shimmy on the plate. Yes. We love that. I have love talking to you. Oh, thanks. Thank you so much for sharing your stories

and your wisdom and your recipes. Yeah. Is that what they're called? You know, once I was asked to participate in, uh, when I was anchoring the news in Hartford, Connecticut, and they were asking to submit something you cook. And so you know, when I gave them, uh, a Morton's Honeybun, where I said, go to the store by the Morton's Honey Bun, put said Honey Bun on a plate, microwave it for eight to 10 seconds, and bring it to your table, serve while hot, fork optional.

That was my recipe, and they thought I was kidding, and I wasn't. That actually sounds delicious. It's good. Love talking to you again. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you for having me. I had a great time with Gail and I am going to tease her forever more for claiming that she

of all people didn't have stories to tell. She reminds us that even if you don't spend hours at the stove or bust pots and pans on the kitchen, you can still serve up great memories there. There's no shame and takeout or frozen food or meal services or the generosity of friends or whatever you do to keep yourself fed and keep yourself healthy. On paper, Gail grew up to become a very different person from her mother, choosing to go down a big career path that skyrocketed her to national fame. But she kept what she cherished most from her relationship with her parents.

And that was carving out time in her busy life to keep a close relationship with her kids. You can find Peggy King's handwritten recipes for her Thanksgiving cranberry, jello mold, and her killer mac and cheese at our website, your mom is kitchen.com. And if you find me on Instagram, I will share it there too. If you make either of these dishes, give us a shout,

make sure to post the results on Instagram or TikTok. And while you're there, you can also share your own techniques, shortcuts must have ingredients for serving up a perfect pan of mac and cheese. Special thanks this week to Melissa Bear with say what media and threshold studios in New York City.

Thanks so much for joining me today on your Mama's Kitchen. I'm Michele Norris. See you next week. This has been a higher ground and audible original, produced by Higher Ground Studios. Producers for your mom's kitchen are Natalie Rin and Sonia Tan, sound design and engineering from Andrew Epen and Roy Baum. Production support from Angel Carreras and Julia Murray. Higher Ground Audio's editorial assistants are Jenna Levin and Camila Therticus. Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Moook Demohan, Dan Fehrman, and Michelle Norris.

Executive producers for Audible are Zola Masheriki, Nick DiAngelo, and Anne Heperman. This show's closing song is 504 by the Soul Rebels. Special thanks to Joe Paulson, Melissa Bear, and Angela Paluso. Head of Audible Studios, Zola Masheriki, Chief Content Officer, Rachel Giazza. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC.

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