Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Natalie Morales

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Journalist and television news personality Natalie Morales takes us back to her globetrotting childhood as a daughter in a military family. She reminisces on living in Spain during her teenage years and food she ate in her Puerto Rican and Brazilian household. Plus, she teaches us how to make the perfect flan.Natalie Morales co-hosts the Daytime Emmy award winning show, The Talk on CBS. Before this, she served over two decades at NBC News, anchoring the Today show and making appearances on Dateline and the Nightly News. She has a cookbook, Cooking At Home With Natalie Morales which was published in 2018. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, it's me, Sam Bee, and it's no secret I'm pro-choice. Yes, that one, but also others, because I'm not just pro-choice. I'm pro-choices, those crazy life-altering decisions that shift our life path and bring us to where we are today. My next choice, starting this new podcast with Lemonada Media called Choice Words, where I interview people I admire about the biggest decisions they've made in their lives. Choice Words is out now wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I think there's a little bit of that expat culture. When you're living abroad, you tend to become friends with the community and the people around you.

And my mother was and still is always one of those people that loves to make friends with the neighbors. And even if she doesn't speak the language, she tries and tries to learn how to communicate as best she can. She finds a way. And sometimes the best way is through food. as best she can, she finds a way. And sometimes the best way is through food. Welcome to Your Mama's Kitchen, the podcast that explores how the kitchens we grew up in as kids shape who we become as adults. I'm Michelle Norris.

Today, we're joined by journalist and TV news personality, Natalie Morales. You might have seen her on your television screens as the co-host of the daytime Emmy award-winning show, The Talk on CBS. But even before this gig, Natalie had a robust career as a TV journalist, serving over two decades on NBC News, making appearances on Dateline and the Nightly News, and anchoring the Today Show.

What you might not have known about Natalie is that she is a fantastic cook. She has her own cookbook, Cooking at Home with Natalie Morales, where she shares recipes for healthy meals that she cooks up at home as a mother of two. The thing that is unique about her recipes is that she draws from the cultural experiences of her globe-trotting childhood. As a kid in a military family, she was born in Taiwan, and throughout her childhood, she lived in Brazil, Panama, and Spain. Natalie even experienced a medley of cultures inside her family home, with her Puerto Rican father and her Brazilian mother. Natalie blended all these backgrounds into her cookbook, and more essentially, into who

she is as a person today. We'll hear about how her diverse upbringing shaped her worldview and her views of the role of the kitchen. Plus, Natalie gives us some tips on how to make her favorite dessert a perfectly delicate flan. So good. All of that's coming up. Natalie Morales, thanks for coming in to talk to us.

I'm so glad that we could do this in person. Me too. It's so great to finally sit across from the great Michelle. Oh, stop. We're just two girls who tell stories, right? We do, but you tell some of the best stories. Well, I get to tell some great stories because I ask people to go down memory lane. Yes. And tell us about the kitchens that influenced their lives, the people that influenced their lives and how those spaces still live in them. And you have had such

an interesting background. You have traveled all over the world. You were born in Taiwan. You lived in Spain for a time, you are a multilingualist, you speak Portuguese and Spanish, and you are fluid in terms of your culinary skills also. You publish a cookbook and the cookbook seems to sop all of that up. Yes. All those influences up. So I want to begin where we always begin. Tell me about your mama's kitchen and where do you go in your mind when I ask about that? Which country, which locale does your mind go to?

I think given that my dad was in the Air Force and so every two to three years we would move pretty much on the regular. But my most formative years were Madrid, Spain when I was 12 to 17. So when you ask me, where do you go in your mind? That's the kitchen I think of our kitchen in Madrid, Spain. And that is really where I formed my culinary tastes, where I picked up the Mediterranean way of living and eating. But then also being able to travel. We were very fortunate to be able to pick up and go. When you live in Europe, it's easy to hop a train or take a flight.

And we traveled quite a bit. My dad, that's his still, it's his wanderlust. He travels as often as he can. And my mom tags along with him still, begrudgingly sometimes. She has grandkids she'd rather stay home with. But that's the kitchen I always like to think back to. That sounds pretty fabulous. Now tell me about your father was in the military. What led the family to Madrid? And were you in military housing or were you living in civilian housing? No, we were living in civilian housing. My dad at the time had the equivalent of what was sort of a diplomatic job. And he was working with a group that was a bunch of different, what they called joint US military groups and based in downtown Madrid. And we lived off base and lived like teenagers living in the middle of Madrid. And I was able to go to

the American school in Madrid, but it really was an international school. It was incredible because a lot of my friends were Spanish speakers, Italian speakers. So I feel like I got a lot of that cultural influence just by being around all these different kinds of cultures and friends with different backgrounds. So high school was like the UN. It was a little bit, yeah. So if I'm imagining that kitchen in Madrid, am I correct in thinking that there was probably a lot of tile?

There's tile everywhere. Describe it for me. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. There were windows that you could see out into a courtyard because a lot of Spanish homes, they're not big homes. These were really town homes close together, but everything is surrounding, you know, a little courtyard in the middle. And so we could look out on the courtyard, the kitchen door would open up to the courtyard. And so I just remember my sisters and my mom, you know, I have two

sisters, I'm the middle. So we would always- So there's a whole conversation about that, we'll save that for later. Oh yeah, we would always make meals, all of us cooking and being around. It was a pretty small kitchen, you know, there was not a lot of real estate. European kitchens tend to be small. Yeah, and you don't spend a lot of time in the kitchen, you spend a lot of time in the dining room or other areas. It's different than it is here in the United States where when you have guests over, you spend all your time in the dining room or other areas. It's different than it is here in the United States

where when you have guests over, you spend all your time in the kitchen. You try to get everybody outside of the kitchen, but people tend to stay in the kitchen. Over there, it was more, let's go sit at the living room and the dining room and hang out outside. So your mother's name is Penelope. Yes. Was she a good cook and was she trying to make sure that even though you were living in distant lands, that you were holding on to American traditions as well? My mother is Brazilian and my father's Puerto Rican, but because as a military housewife, she moved around so much, she I think picked up a lot of different culinary habits and

cuisines. And I think that was also part of her love of wanting to assimilate and be a part of whatever culture she was living in. For example, when I was born in Taiwan and when my mom moved there with my father, my dad was stationed in Vietnam at the time, but they were able to go there to Taiwan. And my mom, to this day, says it was one of her favorite places to live. The people are so kind, beautiful culture, wonderful, sweet people. And she learned to cook a lot of Chinese food at the time and Taiwanese, different kinds of Taiwanese delicacies. And so wherever she went, she tried to pick up something.

And so to this day, she still does that. But of course, being Brazilian, there's a lot of South American cuisine. We all, my sisters and I, we love our empanadas, we love our feijoada, we love our croquetas, all the South American Latin foods. But also my grandmother's had a strong influence in our cooking as well, like my Puerto Rican grandmother. So there's a lot of arroz con gandules and ropa vieja and more of the Latin side that my mother makes as well. So again, it's wanting to blend in. That's my mother's

way of as a military housewife, wanting to assimilate and fit in and be a part of that culture. Was that common among the military housewives? Because one of the things that I've learned, I don't come from a military family. My father was in the military, but had long left by the time he had me and my sisters, that there's a high level of expectation about entertaining and military families, especially if one of the spouses is sort of moving up through the ranks. Were other families doing that or was your mother a little bit unusual in that she was cooking the food of a culture that surrounded her?

I think there's a little bit of that expat culture. When you're living abroad, you tend to become friends with the community and the people around you. And my mother was and still is always one of those people that loves to make friends with the neighbors. And even if she doesn't speak the language, she tries and tries to learn how to communicate as best she can. She finds a way. And sometimes the best way is through food. And she loves to learn whether it's arts and crafts or teach me a recipe. And that was something, living in Spain, for example, our neighbor made incredible gazpacho. And she invited her into our kitchen and said, show me how you make your gazpacho. I need to learn how to make this. And it's in my cookbooks. one of the easiest recipes there is.

And so there was always, you know, I think that connection that is formed around the table, I think, it's the greatest way to communicate with people. It's, as I say, when you break bread, you break so much more with somebody else. You're essentially almost holding hands with people across the table. I'm going to ask a sensitive question, but it's something that is common among military families. They have to make their dollar go a little bit farther. Oh yeah.

Because of the pay structure within the military. How did that play out in your kitchen? Oh, a lot. Yeah. Absolutely. My dad was the breadwinner and he rose to the ranks as a lieutenant colonel, but my dad is still very savvy when it came to putting away his money and investing and was very good about that. But he was a saver.

He stretched that dollar, let me tell you. It was painful for us, those of us wanting nice clothes and having three girls wanting to dress like our friends. We didn't have that. It was more I shopped the thrift stores and learned how to put outfits together, which to this day people are always like, oh, you have such a great sense of style. And I kind of credit that with being able to go to a thrift store and being able to put something together on pretty much $5. And that's what you were doing at that time. But my mother, yes, and my mother still to this day lives on a budget. My dad gives her a certain amount and this is for the groceries, this is for the house,

this is for the spending. And he was able to retire early though. And that goes to show you that he knew what he was doing. The rest of us could have learned a thing or two from him. How did that play out when you were outside of the house? Did that mean that you didn't take as many family adventures, that you figured out how to do things and still save money? No, we were never for the lack of, it's not like we missed out on anything.

In fact, we traveled more, I would say, than most people, but that was, you know, we would take Mac flights for $10. I don't know if- What's a Mac flight? A Mac flight is a military airlift command flight. Okay, like I wouldn't know that. So living- Was there an airline I don't know about called Mac Airlines? No, exactly. This is the best thing ever. When you're in the military, your dependents

can travel with you for $10. So this is how we would travel throughout Europe. Instead of hopping in American Airlines flight on the weekends, my dad would be like, let's go see what if we can hop a flight to Germany. And if there happened to be an aircraft going to Germany, we would get on the parachute seats and they were actual like, on the side of the plane. And they had like little box lunches with the whoopie pies and the whatever cold fried chicken inside and that's all you got.

But it was so much fun as a kid. It was the greatest experience. And we traveled all over the world doing that. And for that, I was so lucky. I don't think I missed out on anything. That's the greatest gift I think my parents could give me is that military upbringing and that lifestyle. It really opened my eyes to the world and it informed me at such a young age that the

world is a much bigger place and there are people out there that you need to know and you need to be able to meet them and see them and tell their stories. And that's why I became a journalist. Nicole And when you became a journalist, because you were moving constantly every couple of years, setting up house in a new place, setting up in a new school, meeting new people, always the new kid. Does that help you as a journalist and as a storyteller? Lisa I think you know the answer to that. I mean, you basically have to assimilate wherever you go.

And you also have to be able to think quickly on your feet. You have to adjust quickly. If somebody says, I'm sorry, we can't do the interview right now. Are you going to have to do it over there? You have to be able to go with the flow. And that was my whole upbringing was going with the flow. I have a professional degree in going with the flow. Being able to just pack a bag and go. I mean, that's-

How much notice would you get when the family was moving? You know, they would tell us like, it was always, I would say like January or February, my father would say, oh, they're thinking about moving us to what do you all think? And it was like, okay. And the only time where there was a what was when it was between my junior and senior year. We got moved from Madrid, Spain to Dover, Delaware. And we did it. My dad had two options. He was getting ready to retire.

And one of the options was I have to go back to Delaware or, and this was during the Gulf War and he was helping with that mission to help in that. He's like, or the other option is I go lead this base in Rota, Spain and I can't bring the family. You would have to go to boarding school and finish your school somewhere else anyway. And I didn't want to be away from my family. So yeah, it was hard. But you know what? Again, you learn to survive and sacrifice. And I think anybody who's grown up in the military knows we're stronger for it in the end. Yeah. So you parachuted into a high school in Dover, Delaware in your senior year. Yes.

What was that like? From Madrid. It was a culture shock. Yes. I mean, I actually- What was most shocking? You know, I think I had lived in Delaware before. I lived there when I was in fourth to sixth grade.

So in my head, I was very happy and very comfortable to go back to the States. The idea of going back home sounded amazing. Friday night lights, football games, cheerleaders. What I didn't realize was here I am in the middle of applying to colleges and where I was in that process and moving and how difficult that would be in that process and explaining all of that. But at the same time, picking up my life and making new friends, having to carry on and starting over at the same time. Picking up where I left off, but trying to again forge new friendships at such a crucial time in my life where I'm supposed to be looking ahead to college.

So I was thinking, you know, I could have been the valedictorian of my senior class. Instead, I have to start over. They don't know where to put me. So it was all learning as I went. Coming up, how Natalie Morales figures out how to serve up food that is healthy and delicious. It's not always easy. MUSIC

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Choice Words is out now, wherever you get your podcasts. So I've actually seen, I don't know why, but in my travels as a journalist, I've actually seen the pamphlet that they give to families when they move. And there's a lot of advice for the spouse that's holding it down, which is usually the woman. Yeah. Was there any kind of official advice that they gave the kids as you were moving into these new schools in these new environments? Not really.

I mean, I think that's thank goodness for my mom. Get with the program. Thank goodness for my mother. I mean, my mother was that rock. She stayed home with us and really allowed us to always feel like she could make home anywhere no matter where we moved to. So no matter where you moved to, what was dinner on a Tuesday night like? It could be anything. I mean, it could be, usually it was some form of chicken or steak or empanada,

black beans, rice. I would say black beans and rice are very popular in my family. Just being Brazilian, but also Puerto Ricans. We love beans and rice as a staple. But typically, my mother always has a way with making something out of nothing. And there's a lot of leftovers that she would make incredibly into a whole new meal the next day or two days later. Lasagna is a favorite of hers as well. So my mom's lasagna was pretty famous. In fact, I remember living in Spain and my parents having a lasagna party where everybody came with their best lasagna. And my mom used a store bought canned sauce and ended up still winning the competition of all the lasagnas. Yes. So her lasagna was pretty darn good.

As someone who is Puerto Rican and Brazilian and American, what was your identity journey like? People always ask, where are you from? Like, what do you consider yourself? And it was always, and it still is a difficult question for me to answer when people ask, you know, where's home? When I was younger, it was interesting, people even asking the question, where were you born? And I remember struggling with that because I was born in Taiwan. And a lot of

people are like, where? What? Where were you born? Like they didn't know where that was. I remember my friends, I mean, young kids, not really understanding and having to explain and why, why were you born there? That's so weird. So I remember just to make things easier, telling people, I'm from Los Angeles. Even before you were from Los Angeles? So we're just making it up? I was making it up. I was like, you know what, I'm just going to make life easy. But yeah, I had a hard time with that. And I think it's interesting now that I live here. Now I could say, oh yeah, that had a hard time with that. And I think it's interesting now that I live here. Now I could say, oh yeah, that's where I'm from. And my kids say that now,

even though they were both born and raised in Hoboken, New Jersey for the longest time. So yeah, but now I think we all identify with LA. You said you had a hard time with it. Is it actually a case where you had a hard time with it or that was it a case where people had a hard time figuring out what category or what box to put you in? Is she Puerto Rican? Is she Brazilian? Is she Latina? Is she Asian? Because she was born in Taiwan. Oh, yeah. Yes. I mean, I had so many job interviews where because I am trilingual and I speak fluent Portuguese, both my parents speak Portuguese to each other at home to this day. I speak Spanish from living in Spain and my grandparents being in Puerto Rico and all

my family in Puerto Rico and many summers there. And I think people would look at me and say, well, you look very European. So, yes, they couldn't put me in a box. I think that's the struggle that a lot of us feel though, who are, you look at us and we maybe don't look like what you picture a stereotype to look like, which is, I've tried to educate people on this so much. I mean, you know, I was once told by a boss, believe it or not, we need more Morales, less Natalie. And this was, yes. We're on the radio, so you can't see my expression right now, but. Yeah, disdain, disgust and dis was yes. We're on the radio so you can't see my expression right now but.

Yeah, disdain, disgust and disdain. I can tell you what that because exactly it was inconceivable. And what were you supposed to do at that point? Yeah, no, I, you know, there's no trying to be something other than who I am. And it's interesting because I think as journalists, we love to explore identity so much more, I think, because there are a lot of us who see this problem in America where people don't identify with a certain category or check that box. And I think that's been a constant occupation for a lot of us is why? Why do we have to fit into that mold?

Right. A box of fixed certitude. The reason I asked you that question is because you said you struggle with it. And it seems that many times it's not the individual that struggles with it. It's all the people that are around them. You're right. That struggle with trying to figure out where do you fit? Right.

What are you supposed to be? And having to explain to people like, why do I have to explain that to you? When did you discover a love of cooking? Because I have your cookbook here with me and people who are listening should grab this at home with Natalie. There's a beautiful picture. Do you, you don't actually dress like this when you cook, do you? No.

Because you're looking very elegant. In a bright yellow shirt. And good on you if you do, but. There'd be splatter of oil and grease all over that bright yellow shirt. But it's clear from the book how much you love cooking and how comfortable you are in the kitchen. Were you always comfortable in the kitchen? I think that came with just growing up and always helping my mother out in the kitchen. Were you always comfortable in the kitchen? I think that came with just growing up and always helping my mother out in the kitchen.

My sisters, as I said, I'm the middle. Every holiday is a family affair of food. And now my whole family lives in Florida, so unfortunately, I don't get to be there for the holiday festivities as much as I used to. But it was always okay, you're gonna make this, you're gonna bring the turkey, you're gonna bring the sides, you're gonna bring the flan, you're gonna bring the whatever it was, and everybody contributed.

But growing up, it was helping my mother in the kitchen. It was never a solo thing for her. We always pitched in and helped out. And just through osmosis, I was able to pick up on recipes and learn how to make the right flavor combinations. And I never realized that I was actually good at it. I think until I moved into my own apartment in New York City for the first time and started having dinner parties with people and having friends over and people were like, Natalie's

the best cook. Let's go to Natalie's place. There's something that happens when you do that when your friends figure out, oh, she can cook. We'll just hang out at her house all the time. It was always, you know, oh, we're coming to your place and she always has more wine. So let's go to Natalie's place. I still to this day love to host. Do you let people in the kitchen with you or are you one of those people who your kitchen

is a no-fly zone? No, I love, I love when anybody comes in and steps in and wants to help out. That's great. The only thing is when my husband steps into the kitchen, I'm like, okay, you know, he does his thing. Is he a cook also? He's not. So I have to sometimes- Does he get in the way? Yeah, a little bit. And I have to oversee a little bit too and make sure that he's doing

it my way, which I mean, as long as he's doing it, it's great and wanting to step in. I mean, I give him salad duty most nights. So I'm trying to figure out how you had time to cook because you worked for court TV, you worked at NBC for a very long time. You now have a talk show, which requires a lot of your time and attention. How did you find time to cook? And your kids are now young adults. So you were juggling quite a lot. And yet it sounds like you still found time to stand at the stove. I prefer actually, I think it's faster to stay home and cook than it is sometimes to

have to get dressed up, go out to dinner with the kids, take everybody out. I mean, yes, we'll order in on occasion, but even then, like, it's never as good. Your views on takeout? Takeout in LA, it's not as good. I mean, in New York, takeout was fantastic, but here it's, we struggle with finding good places. I mean, we have like two or three, and that's about it.

Yeah, takeout in New York, can we just say a word about that? Takeout in New York City. I've never lived in New York. Can we just say a word about that? Take out in New York City. I've never lived in New York City, but I spent a lot of time there. And it is an art. It is. I mean, you order, I don't know if they zip on some zip line straight to your apartment or something like that, but you order and it's like there in a minute and they figure

out the packaging. Yes. So everything is just as it should be without getting soggy and it stays warm and yes, it's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. If you've ever done takeout, it's just a different thing. Right.

Right. And everyone else seems to struggle with it. So, so for me, the answer is it's easier to be home and it's easier to cook. And actually, our family is all, we're all very healthy people. My kids love to work out. They're boys, you know, they want to be fit and trim. So they want a lot of protein and a lot of clean carbs. So I'm more limited in what I can make them because they want things a certain way now.

And same thing with my husband. So wait, your kids, they're not asking for Twinkies and Doritos? No, no, I don't have those kids. They don't eat junk food. I know, it's crazy. Clean carbs. Yes, they want whole grains and... Farrow?

Couscous and quinoa. You have those kids, okay. I have those kids, yeah. I don't know. They're LA kids, I guess. I don't know. Do the boys' friends want to come to your house or are they instead, I'm going to go to the house down the street where they have the Doritos?

Oh no, we still get the pizzas for the boys. When the friends are coming over, it's like, oh, I'm going to go to the house down the street where they have the Doritos. I know, we still get the pizzas for the boys. When the friends are coming over, it's like, oh, I'm going to go to the house down the street where they have the Doritos. Oh no, we still get the pizzas for the boys. When the friends are coming over, it's like, oh, I'm going to go to the house down the street where they have the Doritos. Oh no, we still get the pizzas for the boys. When the friends are coming over, it's like they instead, I'm going to go to the house down the street where they have the Doritos? Oh, no, we still get the pizzas for the boys.

You know, when the friends are coming over, it's like, OK, we're going to eat like them. You're going to we're going to get hamburgers and pizzas. You know, some of us love the food that we grew up on. But when we look back at the diet that our families put together, as much as you love it, you think, were they trying to kill me? Yeah. What were we eating? It was so good, but it wasn't always good for us. Right.

Was that true of the food that you grew up on? I would say Latin food is known to be fried, very salty, but I would say the frying part, a lot of grease. So I actually, in my cookbook, I make a lot of healthy substitutions. For example, I bake my empanadas. I don't fry them. I have a mac and cheese where I use cauliflower and butternut squash and add less cheese, but it still has a lot of flavor. So I do a lot of things where I have found ways to, again, find good substitutes without sacrificing the flavor. But yeah,

Latin food is not healthy at all. So what tastes like home to you when you think of a recipe that your mom used to make or that you used to enjoy in your mama's kitchen, what comes to mind? I always think, and it's still my signature dish. And I've taught my son to make it and my oldest, I'm hoping my youngest will eventually learn to make it too. It's our flan. Everybody, my sisters, we all make flan.

And it's fantastic. It's such an easy recipe. I've made this so many times, so many variations. I've made mango flan, pumpkin flan for the holidays. It's a super easy recipe. And you have the variations, coconut flan. Coconut flan. In your cookbook again, it's called At Home with Natalie. But you know, if you've only had flan in a restaurant or if you've only had it at someone's house, you say it's easy, but it doesn't read easy. You might think, how do I get this consistency? How do I get that perfect layer of caramelization on the top? And just enough of that little bit of liquid. And what kind of device am I supposed

to cook this in? So walk us through this quickly about how easy it actually is and where the trip points are. Yes, I mean, I would say the most difficult part is the caramelization. And that really is, I think the best tool for that is a double boiler, which is a pan within a pan insert. The bottom pan has just a little bit of water, and then you put the insert inside. Now you can get the same with what they call, we call it Banho Maria in Spanish or Portuguese also. And that is just a flat like a pan in the oven filled with a little bit of water and you can use what is a pie tray.

And you can put your flan and caramelize your sugar in that inside the oven at a low temperature. I think it's harder to get that the right way. I think it's harder to get the caramelization just perfect that way. Double boilers are very easy to find on Amazon. I've found mine many times. And my mom gave me one when I remember when I got my first apartment in New York and I still have it. It's the best gift. The double boiler. The double boiler.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love an individual dessert. I mean, I like pie and I like cake and I like other things that are communal that you cut up. But I love like a flan or a creme brulee. It's all yours. Yes.

You don't have to share it with anybody. It just comes and it's all yours. So small glass. Little ramekins. Little ramekins, small glass. Little ramekins. Little ramekins, small glass dish or porcelain. And you can get that same again with the little ramekins. You just put the sugar on the bottom, put it in the oven with a tray of water underneath and let the caramelization happen first. And

then you pour the mixture. It's basically evaporated milk, condensed milk, eggs, vanilla, and that's pretty much it. When you serve it, how do you garnish it? This is the best. You know, if you want to really wow your guests, if you're serving this at a dinner party, for example, I always like to leave it in whatever container it's in, and then I do my flip the flan right in front of the guest.

Wait, one more time. You do your what? I'm going to flip my flan. You ready to flip the flan? And so you take the tray or the plate, the individual plate, depending on how you're serving it. You put it on the top of the ramekin or the flan portion, and then you just hold it tightly and you literally flip and it should just pop right out with the caramel flowing right on top.

So don't be gingerly about it. If you're going to flip it, flip it. Nope, you just flop it. One move. Flip and flop. You flip and flop it and it'll come right out. It should just pour right out after it's cooled. I mean, it has to cool and I would say,

let it be in the refrigerator for about half a day or so, just to make sure it's solid. Anything berries, mint sprigs, anything on that. Oh, it's so beautiful if you add, yeah, berries is beautiful on the side, just like a creme brulee, like you would garnish, however you would like to garnish. I noted that you do have slightly healthier versions.

You can use low fat condensed milk instead. I noted that you do have slightly healthier versions. You can use low-fat condensed milk instead. Yes, that's my trick. Does the consistency change or the flavor? Does that have an impact on that? I have not found it changes anything. Now, the flan purists out there may say they disagree, but my mom uses, there is 2% evaporated milk and there's low fat sweetened condensed milk and I've done it that way.

I've also used full fat versions and I don't think I could tell the difference. Flawn is popular in several cultures. Are there slight variations? Oh yes, yes. I mean, I've had it all through Latin and South America. I've had it in Spain. Of course in Spain, it's very much a delicacy. It's their dessert as well.

I would say the flan in Spain is perhaps less custardy and creamy. And I think our flan in Brazil and Puerto Rico has a little bit more of that sweet and condensed milk texture. Yeah, I don't know why. I've never delved into what the ingredients are that make it different though in Spain versus the flan that we make.

I road test all the recipes at home and I look forward to doing this one. I've never made a flan. Oh, I can't wait. I've had creme brulee. I've made creme brulee with a little blowtorch, but I've never made flanlee. I've made Creme Brulee with a little blow torch, but I've never made flan. So, yours will be the first one. Okay. Knock on wood. It goes well. And if I don't get the flip right, I'm going to be calling you.

She said she made it sound so easy. This has been fun. Thanks so much for coming into the studio. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. All my best to you. Thank you so much. And thanks for letting me go down memory lane. Natalie's story reminds us of how food and cooking are so closely tied to identity. Even though she's had a rather unusual upbringing globetrotting around the world, I think we all can relate to feeling more connected to our cultural identities through

food. She said something in our conversation that I want to spotlight. When you break bread with people, you're holding hands with them across the table. You're sharing part of your identity with them, or you're learning more about theirs. Even as people around her struggled to put her in a box of their own perceptions, Natalie knew who she was through all of that. If you wanna learn how to make Natalie's perfect flan, and I bet you do, you can find it on my Instagram page

at michelle underscore underscore Norris, that's two underscores, and you can also find the recipe at our website, yourmommaskitchen.com. And before we go, a reminder, we want to hear from you. We're opening up our inbox for you to record yourself and tell us about your mama's recipes, some memories from your kitchen growing up, or your thoughts on some of the stories you've heard on this podcast.

Make sure to send us a voice memo at ymk at highergroundproductions.com for a chance for your voice and your story to be featured in a future episode. Thanks so much again to Natalie for coming into our studios at Higher Ground and to all of you for joining me today. Make sure to come back again next week because you know us, we're always serving up something special. Until then, stay bountiful. This has been a Higher Ground and Audible Original produced by Higher Ground Studios.

Senior Producer Natalie Wren, Producer Sonia Tunn. Additional Production Support by Misha Jones. Sound Design and Engineering from Andrew Eepen and Ryan Kozlowski. Higher Ground Audio's Editorial Assistant is Camilla Thurdekus. Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Mukta Mohan, Dan Fearman, and me, Michelle Norris. Executive producers for Audible are Nick D'Angelo and Anne Hepperman. The show's closing song is 504 by the Soul Rebels.

Editorial and web support from Melissa Baer and Say What Media. Talent Booker, Angela Peluso. Chief Content Officer, Rachel Giazza, and that's it. Goodbye, everybody. Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Sound Recording Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. higher ground you you you you you you you As women, our life stages come with unique risk factors, like when our estrogen levels drop during menopause, causing the risk of heart disease to go up. Know your risks. Visit heartandstroke.ca.

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