Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - "The Friendship Bubble" with Elizabeth Alexander

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Legendary poet and teacher Elizabeth Alexander sits down with Michelle to discuss their 30 years of friendship, how they struggled as young mothers, and crucial support their friend group has given to them at the low points in their lives. Elizabeth also draws the curtain back on what really happens when you go on a retreat to Camp David with the First Lady. Find the episode transcript here: audible.com/tlp/episode7 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Light Podcast is presented by Starbucks and into it. It is wonderful to be here. And I'm so excited about the evening that we have ahead. And I want to tell you about my beloved sister friend, Michelle Obama. We're here to talk about a long friendship. Michelle and I first met more than 30 years ago. In a magical village in Chicago called Hyde Park. President Obama and I were both teaching at the university

there well before he became the president. Well before it was even an idea. It was before any of us had children. It was before we moved away to other cities and new adventures. But from that moment on, Michelle and I have been on a life journey together. We were pregnant with our first children, Malia and Solo, at the same time, and called ourselves comadres. We called ourselves comadres and we've been at each other's sides through the changes of motherhood

as they grew to adulthood, the changing nature of familyhood, the twists and turns of careers, evolving bodies, growing older, making new dreams. So tonight I am so honored and so very, very happy to introduce to you my beloved sister of 30 years Michelle Levan Robinson Obama. Hey everyone, this is Michelle Obama and welcome to the Light Podcast. Now won't surprise you to hear me say that Barack is my best friend. It's sort of the standard answer for married people, but it also has the benefit of being true in our case. He is the love of my life, my partner in all things, and someone who has seen me through

the good, the bad, and everything in between. But honestly, I don't depend on Brock for everything. As much as I love him, I know that's too much to ask of anyone. And that's why I'm someone who takes her friendships very seriously. Whether I met you three months ago or three decades ago, if we've built a meaningful friendship, I will work hard to foster our relationship and be there for you when you need me. I've got your back because I know you got mine. And one of those people I know without a doubt that I can count with her for a long, soulful conversation about

friendship, fostering them, nurturing them, the deep humanity that lies within them. Now I've known Elizabeth for 30 years since long before the presidency with even a glimmer in peroxide. presidency with even a glimmer in baroque's eye. She's a distinguished poet and writer and academic, but to me she's even more than that. She's an authentic, genuine friend and she'll always have a spot at my kitchen table. So I hope you enjoy our conversation. My honey sister, girlfriend, everything. Elizabeth, this woman, you know, we could talk about her for hours. She is brilliant. And thank you. Thank you for sharing this night with me.

Well, it is so wonderful to be able to do this and to have so many things to talk about starting in the zone of friendship, the sacred zone of friendship and long, long friendship. That 30 years surprised me when I added it up. I know. I was like 30? Really? We don't look at Dewey. We don't look like we've done anything for 30 years.

We're not trying to look at it. We're not trying to look at it. We're not trying to look at it at all. What I want to talk about is what I appreciate about our friendship. I've written some things down. Oh my God. Some more things to say. Oh, no, yes.

Yes. No, we're not going to cry till later, maybe we'll build up to. So I appreciate its safety. I appreciate its family dumb. I appreciate its honesty. It's sometimes very bracing honesty, but always true honesty, it's sometimes very bracing honesty, but always true honesty because that's what is so important. So those are just some of the things.

And I wanted to go to the part in the book where you write about the weekends at Camp David that we would have with the girlfriends and what it was like to make new friends when you were first lady. And what your friendships mean to you now as the girls have become adults and you and the president have moved into new stages of life. Well, you know, I write a whole chapter, which I call my kitchen table. And this is a book about the tools that I've adopted over the years that help keep me balanced and upright. Because that's a lot of what people write to me about.

They ask me about especially in these times. So this is not all the answers, but these are the answers that have helped me. And as we've said time and time again, the goal is to create a conversation because we all have the tools. It's just that we're often not asked to reflect upon them and realize how we're using them. And one of my biggest tools is my kitchen table. And why I call it a kitchen table is that that's where in a lot of families where all the happenings go on is at the kitchen table.

And my kitchen table on Euclid Avenue was that safe space for me. It was a little bitty house, a little bitty table, but my brother and I, we could come there, we could throw the worries off our backs from the day, we could sit and share, be ourselves, be seen. So that table from a very early age was important to me. And as I grew, I just added to it. And when I got to the White House, it became even more important to have a strong kitchen table. People around me who had my back, who

were a safe haven for me, who could see me beyond what the world was trying to pin on me, and girlfriends at the table were critical. And our friendship started way back in Chicago, as you said, and seeing the pictures of solo in Malia, I mean, what was beautiful about our friendship then and what I learned from it was that that was the first time I realized that you

You really cannot do this life alone that's right and We would get together at friends houses We had an elder group of individuals who would cook a couple of nights a week and they would invite us over with our kids And there was just a beauty as a young mother of being able to kind of come to a space where there was a community of people who would pick up your baby.

Just give you a second, you know? A lot of mothers are shaking their head where you just needed, just needed a minute so that you could get a breather so that you could then show up well for them. We had that space together. We got fed at that table. We were loved at that table.

We were unconditionally loved. And our sisterhood grew from there. Yes. Solo and Malia were playing on the floor together, you know? Or sitting next to each other and where we would say, like, they're friends, aren't they? They're friends. It's like, certainly they're friends, aren't they? They're friends. It's like certainly they're friends.

And they're gonna be married. They're gonna love each other. And they're gonna be married. And they're gonna be married. Yes. And I remember also, you know, that what you learned from people who have done it before, simple stuff, that one night, solo was fusing.

Yeah. And so one of our group of friends, and I got upset because he was a new mother, a new baby. And so he had just given two wooden spoons. Yeah, two wooden spoons. And he just started clacking away and he was fine for the next hour. But I think that idea also that our children were welcome because children are welcome.

Which I think is something that's also really important in this idea of family, not just the children who happen to live in your home. Yeah. All of the children were welcome. Yeah. And I think also, and you know, you talk about this in the book, when you became first lady,

things became very different and you couldn't roam the land freely. Yeah, I was in the friendship bubble. And the friendship bubble. So, you know, you had to be the one to get us together. Well, and also I knew the importance of having friends, even as first lady. You know, I had a crop of what I call in the book, My Barnacles, people like Elizabeth, those stalwart friends who were with you throughout the book, My Barnacles, people like Elizabeth, those stalwart friends

who were with you throughout the years, they are sturdy and hard, and they're crusty, and they last. Kind of. And they're cute, they're cute and crusty. So I had My Barnacles, but when we came to the White House, Malia and Sasha were still young. They were fifth grade and second graders. And we were trying to make sure that their life

was as normal as possible. And in order for their lives to be possible, I had to be a normal mother, which meant that I had to have mom friends. I had to know what was going on in the school. And you know all the parents, you know what's going on in the school, and you know all the parents, you know what's going on from the other parents. That's right. So I could, yes.

And you also know which parents not to be bothered with, too. That's right. Yes. Everybody knows that. I'm Laura, and I'm from Oakland, California. This is my best friend Amanda. We're all from a mom's group. So we all had babies together. Our babies were born the year that he was inaugurated. And we all came together the hospitals and so we all had never met each other before and ended up spending every Tuesday and Thursday together, trying to navigate the newness of motherhood and what that meant for all of us.

And this dates back 14 years, right? So we didn't have the benefit of like the instant communication, but we would email each other at all hours because you're navigating how to breastfeed and oh my baby's not sleeping. And there was always somebody that was available. So we had a group email and it would be three in the morning and there would be somebody else and you didn't feel quite so alone. Um, take care of you, take care of the baby, you eat, baby eats, you sleep, baby sleeps. Like those are the ground rules. And you're killing it, even though you're flouching it. Like you can do those four things you win. Here we are 14 years later at Michelle and Mom's Mickey Tour. We'll be right back with more of my discussion with Elizabeth.

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Today, Kelsey is passing on that knowledge to others at her Starbucks store. It's very life-giving to be able to have that moment or be able to connect with someone. That is something I don't want a customer to miss out on. A wonderful reminder that a little kindness is never really little. The Light Podcast is brought to you by Intuit, the technology platform that helps build your financial confidence. If you're like most people, you know what it's like to worry about money. We've all been hit with an unexpected expense or state of late

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and spend more time doing the things they love. We're even bringing financial tools into the classroom to give students a head start at success. With the right support, finances can fuel your dreams. So whatever you're into, let's get into it. Oh, I just loved hearing those stories. And when we left off, Elizabeth and I were talking about friendship too. Now I'll be honest, when our family first moved into the White House, making friends felt pretty daunting. But nonetheless, I knew I couldn't make it through four or hopefully eight years living in isolation. So it

was critical that I get in there and meet some people. But how do you meet people when you're surrounded by armed guards, where people literally cannot touch you? They can't come up and shake your hand, because they'll be like, down, ma'am. It was like, well, that could have been a friend. You know? They don't care about my friends. So in order for me to make that happen, I had to extend myself.

And I tell the story in the book of one of those first friends who was now a lifelong friend. Her name is Danielle, I tell the story of, because I kind of picked her. You know, I picked her because to tell the truth, the kids went to Sidwell. It was not that many black kids in the school. And so I saw Little Olivia, who was a little black girl. And I was like, you're gonna have a play date Sasha with Olivia.

That's Olivia. Now at the time, Olivia and Sasha hated each other. So Sasha was like, I don't like Olivia. She did something to me and I was like, well, you're gonna have a play date with her because I need a friend. They are now the best of friends, and we make them thank us for that.

But I saw Danielle and she was, I liked her because she wasn't all up on me, you know? She wasn't thirsty, you know? And there were those that were always right here. Let me tell you something. And she would always fade into the back and I was like, I want to, you know, I want to invite Olivia over to a play date. But the experience of having a play date with the daughter of the first lady is an experience.

So I didn't realize until afterwards she told me the story of what that experience was like for her picking up her child from the play date at the White House. She told me she got first, she got her hair and nails done. Of course, of course. Got her car washed. Because as a black woman, she was thinking about her mother going, you are not going to show up in that house with a dirty car and messed up nails. It was a Saturday. Nothing was going on.

But she got her car washed and nails done. She wasn't even supposed to be getting out of the car that wasn't the plan. She wasn't even supposed to be getting out of the car that wasn't the plan. She was just but just in case. She wasn't even going to dry it up on that driveway. Look at messy. You have to leave your social security number. You have to give all of your personal information just to pick your child up from my house. So the play date is over. I know Danielle is downstairs to pick up Olivia. And usually the procedure is that the president first lady

do not leave the residence. The guest are escorted up and down by what are called usheres. And I thought, well, I can't let this child be walked out of a play date by some band, right? That's not normal. And I know her mother's gonna want to know what happened. It's like, did Olivia act a fool up in here? So I thought the least I could do normally was just go down and look her and I and go, girl,

she was good, everything was fine. That was the normal thing to do. That's what she would do. And I was like, I am normal. That's, I was just normal just the other day. So I'm not gonna act brand new now. So I am benonced to all the security guards walk down the stairs, down the elevator with Olivia through the dip room out into the south lawn. And when the principles walk out, all the security pops into action. So Cat Team, black vests, machine guns, snipers,

all of it. Slowly start descending on the lawn toward her car. And what they had told her was, under no circumstances, are you to leave the car, ma'am? Mm-hmm. So I walk out and I'm like, hey, Danielle. Come on, get out. She's like, she's like, come on, get out.

She's looking at me, she's looking at them. I'm looking at them. I was like, let her out. She slowly gets out and I like the way she played it cool. You know, she didn't look like she was shaking in her booth. She wasn't sweating. She's very cool. She's very cool. We had a brief conversation and from then on,

another daisy in my life was born. And we are good friends now. We are all good friends. All good friends. Will you gave your friends friends? Yes. Yes. So you gave your friends friends. And I mean, just to say, I want to I want to talk about David and the extra experience. Yes.

So yeah, this is I'm surprised I still have friends after this. But this is the importance of the intentionality of friendship, which is one of the points I make in here, that even before the White House, my friendships are important, but you have to plan it, you have to be intentional about it, you have to schedule it as Elizabeth said. So being as busy as I was, I needed to black out time. And so what I decided, because I was trying to multitask, I need to exercise, be with my friends, all of that all at once.

So I thought, what better way to do that than have a boot camp weekend at Camp David. Oh my God. Oh, Pete, so I gathered all my friends and of course they were like, we're going to Camp David. Little did they know that what that meant was three workouts a day with Marines. Yeah. Actually leading us through the exercise. work out today with Marines. With Marines. Yeah. Actually leading us through the exercise.

Like, they would take us through boxing lessons. This is when we were playing dodgeball one time. And it got vicious. Yeah. You know, we would climb Bertha, which was a hill on Camp David. On Hill. We would do calisthenics.

We would meditate. It would have been in the mountain, actually, as I recall. It was a mountain. Name for a serious black lady. It was called Bertha. And we would go up. We would go up and down. Well, these are pictures in different places.

Because what happened is that Camp David, the exercise, extended beyond, because I wanted my girlfriends to be healthy. You know, and I knew that we were all busy women, doctors, business people, professionals, mothers, that we needed to teach each other how to take care of ourselves. We needed to challenge ourselves. We needed to learn how to sweat together and to bond together. Now I didn't allow wine and... First time, the first time.

The first time, and then nobody was gonna come back if I didn't put wine back in. We were so busy, we got so busy, because we just, you know, there was no wine. We needed to relax our muscles, actually. Use them. I added wine back in. So we would do our boot camps at least three times

a year. And that's how all my friends became friends with each other. Yes. And that, you know, I guess the point I'm making is that we need friends. We have to be intentional about it. There are too many people who are reporting a level of loneliness and isolation in record numbers. And we have, and for the young people, Elizabeth and I were talking about this, a lot of young professionals have gotten used to over quarantine wanting to work from home, you know? And it feels like that's a good thing because the thing about isolating yourself is that

you don't have to compromise. You don't have to adapt. But when you are isolated and don't get into the practice of regular engagement with people, looking people in the eye sitting across the table and not across the Zoom with a person, you don't build up the kind of trust and familiarity and connection that we need as humans. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're all acting a little crazy right now.

Mm. You know, that we have been isolated away from each other. So with young people, you know, I would encourage you, even if you can work from home to find time to connect and learn how to do that. Because if you can't do it at work, you miss being able to do it among your friends. And that's where isolation and loneliness comes in. And when that happens, you start to not trust anyone. You only trust yourself, what you hear your world get small. And that's something that, you know, we have to work against.

And if my point is that if I can do it as First Lady of the United States, anybody can make a friend. Anybody can push themselves out of their comfort zone. And it's a critical thing to do. No, that's right. I will never forget the first invitation I got to Camp David.

Dr. Sharon Malone is a very dear friend of mine, an important member of my kitchen table. I'll never forget the first time I invited her to Camp David with some of my girlfriends. I told her to come for a nice, relaxing weekend. She was surprised by what happened next. I have to tell you, I had no idea what to expect. I'd never been there before, but it was going to be a retreat.

I said, okay, and my idea of a retreat was, I'll say we'll be getting massages, we'll have cocktails, and we'll sit by the pool. And I have to tell you, nothing was farther from the truth. Our retreats were really based on health and wellness and eating well and exercising. And I mean exercising to a level that I don't think many of us who were there had ever exercised like that before. We would start the day with meditation. We'd have three workouts a day, but the fun part of the holy event was our kitchen table, our dining table actually, at the end of the day. We had worked out, we felt good, a little bit

of fatigue, but this was the opportunity that we got to really hash out what was going on with us. And imagine a table with 10 women around it where no topic was off limits. We talked about our children, our family, our jobs, what was going on with us personally. And you know, even our parents and families, it was a supportive environment where we could get advice, seek counsel from our friends, and get honest responses.

And I have to tell you of all the things that we did in Camp David, I think that was the most nourishing for our souls. We exercised our bodies in ways that we thought we could never do and we did. And we ended our day always with the love and support and care of the women around us. We'll be right back with more of my discussion with Elizabeth. You're listening to the Audible Original of Michelle Obama The Light Podcast. Like what you're hearing? Listen to more from Michelle Obama between episodes on Audible.

Sign up for a free Audible trial and get your copy of the Light We Carry audiobook. For now, enjoy listening to the Light Podcast. We have some fantastic questions. Questions? Yes, questions. Questions from the audience? From the audience. In fact, let's start out with Nikki from Cresswood DC. Nikki.

Nikki. Nikki in the house. Nikki Cresswood DC says, you speak often about the wonderful gift of girlfriends and women friendships as we have been discussing. Which role do you play in your girl group? The jokester, the mother, the therapist, the one who keeps the piece.

Which role do you play? I said this, I think I'm the therapist jokester. That's my role. We're all funny, I think. I think so. I think I'm funnier than you all are. She's the funniest of them all. And I think also you are the, I think you're the anchor.

I think you are the anchor. You are. Well, I've had the biggest house for the longest. Very big house. And you're the best snacks. That's so. Yeah, better snack. Francine from Baltimore wants to know

how you spend a perfect rainy Saturday. What are you doing all day watching TV? Yo. Music on. What are you doing all day watching TV? Yo, music on. What are you eating? Who is around? How is that day spent perfectly for you? It's a great day if I'm all by myself. Why I love my husband.

Sometimes he peeks in and goes, why are you watching that? And it's like, get out of here. I want to watch Real Housewives and don't judge me. Get! I want to watch Real Housewives and don't judge me. Get. Real Housewives with like French fries, glass of wine. Popcorn. To blanket.

Popcorn. But if it's a real special day, it would be French fries. Yes. Not popcorn. You wanted my ideal day. Popcorn is like, yeah, fridge fries. And what else might make that day perfect? Rainy Saturday.

And then I go to bed early. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And then last audience question is, so this is Jenna from Lexington, Kentucky. If I could be a fly at all on the White House wall, what would I be most surprised about? I imagine it all feels fancy,

and your every move is taken care of. What is the reality? You know, and I probably will regret saying this. Take a beat, baby. It is definitely fancy by all standards, butlers, florists, to ushers that usher people up and down your house as I, you know, there's gardens and things like that. But it's also an old building.

And it is because politically it is hard for a sitting president to make the decision to spend the money to do repairs because the other party will criticize the president and say, oh, look, he's taking taxpayer money. So I will just say this to the people in here, the White House needs to be cared for. And it is an old house and it needs new wiring. And, you know, one day we were in our bed on a Sunday and it's across

from the dining room and this was the first term and Sasha comes in she's little and we're sort of sleeping in so she comes in and she's like mom it's raining in the dining room. And Barack and I are like, what? She said, it's raining in the dining room and we said, okay, go to bed, get out of here, get out of here. Because we thought she was just trying to get us up. And then I got quiet and I heard rain. So I get up, put on my robe, I cross the hall,

and it is raining literally, a pipe that was so old had burst and it was pouring down rain. And luckily the staff was there and they moved the priceless art away, but it ruined the ceiling. But I say that to say that there are old pipes that burst and could destroy that house. It could catch fire. So if a president, regardless of party, decides to renovate, do not, don't get mad.

I said, don't get mad, it needs it, it needs it. Thank you all, thank you so much. Thank you. Elizabeth Alexander, thank you. When a wake up in the morning, love. Oh, I just love Elizabeth. We talked a lot about friendship in this discussion, but one thing I wanted to emphasize is this. Friendship really is a two-way street.

You don't just want to have good friends. You gotta be a good friend too. That means taking the time to check in on your kitchen table, dropping in when you're in the area, even just a text when you think about them. In fact, is there someone in your life that you haven't been in touch with for a while? Why don't you give them a call or shoot them a message right now? I bet you'll

be glad you did. All I know is that I'm so glad I had a chance to have this conversation with one of my best friends in the world. Elizabeth is really just incredible and I hope you got a glimpse of that as you listened. And as always, thank you for listening. Talk soon. This has been a higher ground and audible original, produced by higher ground and little everywhere. Executive produced by Dan Fehrman and Muktimo Han for higher ground and Jane Marie for little everywhere. Audible Executive Producers Zola Masheriki and Nick DiAngelo. Audible co-producers Keith Wooten and Glenn Pogue. Produced by Mike Richter with additional production by Joyce Sanford, Dan Galucci, Nancy Golembisky and Lisa Polak with production support from Andrew Epen, Jenna Levin and

Julia Murray. Location recording by Jody Elf. Special thanks to Melissa Winter, Jill VanLokeren, Crystal Carson, Alex May Ceeley, Haley Ewing, Marone Highly Meskall, Sierra Tyler, Carl Ray, and Jerry Radway, Meredith Koop, Sarah Corbett, Tyler Leckonberg, and Usra Najum. The theme song is unstoppable by Sia. The closing song is lovely day by Bill Withers.

Audible head of U.S. content, Rachel Giazza, head of Audible Studios, Zola Masheriki. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Voice over by Novina Carmel. This episode was recorded live at the Warner Theater in Washington, D.C. It seemed impossible to fit