Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - "The Power Of Small" with David Letterman

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

Legendary talk show host and comedian David Letterman talks to Michelle about anxiety—vulnerability, his struggles with taking criticism, and their mutual experiences in the public eye. They also swap knitting tips and Michelle shares the tools that she leans on to quiet her mind. Find the episode transcript here: audible.com/tlp/episode5 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Light Podcast is presented by Starbucks and into it. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. It's wonderful to be a part of this. Thank you for letting me be a part of this. It's nice to see everybody. I'm going to, and I had to think long and hard about this. I was invited to participate in this and it's made me very excited and more excited than I should be, but it's also made me feel guilty and weird. I'm going to tell you a story now and I'll try to move this along as quickly as I can. So in 2017, my wife and I are invited to the JFK Librarian Boston, and it's for the Profiles and Courage Award, and I was runner up, thank you.

So, it's a big deal, you got to wear a tuxedo, and I'm telling you, I looked great. And my wife has what I'm told now is a gown. So now we go in and at the table, holy goodness, I'm sitting next to Michelle Obama. Yeah. So she is wearing one of these gowns that I clumsily described. It's a big evening and there's a lot of up and down. Oh, somebody comes out, you get up, you sit down, somebody comes out, you get up, you sit down,

somebody comes out, you sit down. And about two or three of these, somebody comes out, things. up, you sit down, somebody comes out, you sit down. And about two or three of these, somebody comes out, things, I realize that when we stand, I've got my left foot here. That's right. I've got my foot under gown. And so I think, well, my evening's ruined. Somebody else comes out, and I two or three times later, again, I'm standing up and there

I am all night long, I've been standing on Michelle Obama's gown. And I can't help it, I can't stop it. Something has gone wrong, neurologically. Okay, so now it's time to go. I'm standing there, I look down. Oh my God, I'm still standing on the woman's dress. So she now makes a move to exit and is tugged. And I quickly take my foot off the dress and she says, you know, all night long, my dress

has been catching on something. And I say, yeah, I think it's your chair. I feel much better. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. It's, I'm going to do this now, and I'm going to do this quite simply, but this is all I can think of. My favorite first lady, America's favorite first lady, Michelle Obama. Hello everyone, this is the light podcast and I'm Michelle Obama. For the past 15, 16, 17 years, I've been lucky enough to travel all over the country and the world, meeting people, giving speeches, doing big events with big crowds, and so much more. But I've got to tell you, it's always special when you're in your hometown.

There's a special comfort looking out at the audience and seeing all those familiar faces. That's a big part of the reason why this conversation is so exciting. I'm at home in Chicago and all sorts of folks are here with me. aunties, uncles, cousins, my mom, my big brother, and so many others. And adding to the excitement is that I'm being joined by one of my favorite people. David Letterman, I just love David. We've known each other for a while now. And what I love about him isn't just his sharp wit. It's his sensitivity. He's unafraid to show his tender side. And over the years years we bonded over the ups and downs of raising our kids

We built a deep and sincere connection and I am so grateful to call him a friend Whenever we see each other. It's like we haven't missed a beat and we just die right into the conversation In this one we dive into the writing process, vulnerability, mental health, and how focusing on smaller tasks can help us keep bigger challenges in perspective. It's a fun one. And an added bonus, David didn't even step on my dress this time. So it was you, David. I should have known. up on my dress this time. So it was you, David.

I should have known. Yes. And the other part of it is, I'm surprised. And perhaps I did leave a big stupid footprint on your dress. Yeah. And I'm sure that's going to be in the library. We should get that dress, put it in the presidential library, and outline the footprint.

Thank you. First of all, my mother is here tonight. My brother is here tonight. My nephews. All my family. We've got some shielded and Robinson's and Funays. And oh, there's my crew. Some graves.

My peeps are here. So y'all have heard these stories, so peeps are here. So, y'all have heard these stories, so try to act interested. And if I get them wrong, it's my version, it's my book. So don't be all like that didn't happen that way. I want to, I read the book, that good, yes. I was counting on that. It's exciting to read because if you spend a lot of screen time, you think, oh, maybe the mechanism has been fried.

So your brain actually works differently, reading it. So thank you very much for that. One of the many things that I was taken by was this book is quite a lot of work. Writing is a lot of work. Writing is a lot of work. And it's thoughtful, and it's also biographical with examples to illustrate the thoughtfulness. How do you do that? Oh, wow, that's a deep, what place to start.

I work with a wonderful collaborator, Sarah, who worked with me on becoming. So a lot of it is storytelling. So I get to sort of lose myself in the storytelling and then we work backwards. But as I said for this particular book, it came about in the time of quarantine. That period period as was described in the opening segment where we were all stuck. For me, I was just spinning. So that's the state I was in as I was agonizing and thinking, how do you keep yourself from falling into a deep, deep, dark depression in these times?

And I had to start thinking of the tools that I had that got me through. And I got a lot of questions from kids, from people writing letters over that time. How do you pull yourself out of depression? How do you get through uncertainty? How do you deal with a level of vulnerability that many of us live with all the time, but so many more of us were experiencing. And so this book was the result of me kind of trying to answer that question for other people and trying to answer it for myself. It's remarkable I like to think mostly about myself, but I wish I had that ability because I think I'm like most people if the soup is cold

I start to wine. I'm that guy and that's not way humans are supposed to be. That's not how you are either David, but you like to say that. What is this? Gospacho? I like that. And then I realize that the whole book is like a toolbox. And at this point, I'm thrilled because I thought that maybe I was the only one who needed this kind of help. But I'm thinking, here's a woman who has faced this sort of life, a life like anybody, and has found ways to cope with it.

Because when you're suffering something, you feel a bit alone. But oh my God, if you have these struggles, then I don't feel so much alone. Well, that's the power of sharing those vulnerabilities. I mean, I have friends who've read the book and they're like, wow, you're so vulnerable. How can you put yourself out there?

But what I've learned over the years is that vulnerability is that's where your confidence lies. If you can own your story and own all of it, you know, the beauty of it, the hard parts, if you can embrace it, because a lot of times we try to ignore the hard part, you know, because you look at people on stage like us and we never talk about the hard times. We never talk about our fears. We never talk about any of that So kids are walking around thinking oh if I want to be Michelle Obama then it's got to be perfect You know she must have grown up with a silver spoon You know they they don't remember all we went through in the White House many young kids today

Don't even remember how attacked I was, because now I'm Michelle Obama. They don't remember when I was accused of not loving my country. So they can look at where I am now. But my dad's motto was that nobody can make you feel bad if you feel good about yourself. Do you mind if we talk a bit about that because that was one of those things

underlined in my copy of the book. I'm not sure that would work. I used to have a television show and occasionally, yeah, occasionally people would say and write unpleasant things about me and when that would happen, I wouldn't leave the house. And I would wind my wife and I would wind anybody about, well, it's just a more than a meal alone, like that. That's how I would deal with it.

That's how it would sign. Yeah, that's pretty much any day at my house. David's wine and a kid. Yeah, David's wine and a kid. But I found that it does hurt. And a lot of people say, no, I didn't bother me. It's just part of the game. But that is stratospheric.

Yes. Now does that rock the household when that happened? No, I mean, it hurts for sure. And I think there was a second when I was like, forget campaigning. I'm just not doing this. But then I had to think to myself within that, let them win.

And what example am I showing? If I can take a lick, because I grew up in a household with Mary and Frazier Robinson Robinson where I was seen enough. Because here's the thing, it didn't just work all of a sudden. You know, when you're a black woman in America and you're not wealthy, you have to practice like in yourself a lot. You know, because... Let me tell you, I grew up very early with people trying to set their bar low for me. And you see it coming, and this is the thing that we cannot pretend that kids don't see

when they're being devalued. Because anytime it happened to me, as early as kindergarten, I knew it. I knew in second grade that the second grade teacher thought we were all dumb and not worth it because she didn't organize the class, she wasn't giving us homework, and I went home to my kitchen table, and I complained about it. I was like, munch. This is not going to happen. This lady, she doesn't think we can read, she doesn't think we're smart. And I went home and I had a mother who believed in my voice,

but I knew in second grade that that teacher didn't think the kids she was teaching were worthy. And I was looking for homework, all of us were. What happened was my mother went up to that school and that's what mothers do. mother went up to that school and that's what mothers do. They go up to that school. And she was one of those mothers. She went up to that school. And before you knew it, I was out of the second grade and in the third grade. So there were a handful of us who got tested. We were advanced. Not only were we smart, but we were smarter than smart,

and we got skipped to the third grade. But there were only three of us. And I thought, what happened to the rest of the kids in that second grade class that didn't have a mother who could advocate for them and didn't have kids who could test out? But I was used to that. The world has made me practice liking myself.

And that is a tool for young people. You cannot wait for somebody to see you. Because first of all, there are people who don't even know you exist. They don't even know your pain. They don't know your struggle. And this just isn't race, David. This is, you know, if you're poor,

if you live outside in a rural county, if you are not in the best school system, if you are a woman, if you, there are many ways to be othered in this world. And for some of us, when it happens, it breaks us. For me, I just happen to be that smart kid that was like, oh, I'll show you. I will show you. You doubt me, I'll work harder. And so by the time I got to the White House, I was like, oh, you don't think I'm

gonna be the best first lady that you have ever seen. I am going to work so hard, I'm gonna launch so many initiatives, I'm gonna be all over the world, you just wait. That part. Yeah. My sister was much more focused than I was. This is my big brother Craig. Yep, mom's favorite, and my best friend growing up. He knows better than anyone that I've always been this way. And I would say that she really concentrated on getting every single answer right.

And that's just, that's who she is right there if I could give you an example where I was trying to get good grades, but I wasn't trying to get everything right. Right. I was trying to be efficient with my time because I wanted to be off and do other things. Now, my sister wanted to do other things too, but it was really important for her to get every answer correct. We lived in a very small apartment, right?

It was really a one bedroom apartment that we made into a two bedroom apartment. And my sister and I shared a room. And so there was not very much room to play. Like we played in the living room and that was pretty much it. So there was a time where we're both in the living room playing and she's playing with her dolls and I'm playing with my soldiers and she just gets up and says, I can't play in the same room as you. You're having too much fun. That she was like four and I was six.

She said, you're having too much fun. I'm over here minding my own business and she was also upset from the fact that she must not have been having fun. And I was. So I always had to manage that. And of course, I got up and moved out of the room and went into a different room

rather than making her move. So we actually created the personality that she is in some ways. Like we emboldened it. That's one of the most beautiful parts of having a big brother. As much as I want to tell him he's wrong, as much as I want to claim my path as my own, I am who I am because of him, because he gets me, because he sees me. We've laughed and cried and fought and commiserated

and everything in between. And so whenever I feel a little lost or untethered, there's a special comfort in knowing that Craig is only a text or phone call away. And whether you got siblings or not, I hope you've got someone like him who can keep you grounded. Because that kind of support might be the only way that you can take flight. We'll be right back with more of my discussion with David Letterman. This episode is brought to you by Starbucks.

Every day and every community, moments of kindness are happening. When times are tough, they can be harder to see. But from where we stand, we're able to watch kindness come to life in all shapes and sizes. This is a real story shared by a customer from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I was feeling a little down on my birthday, so I decided to treat myself to a birthday drink

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future. Whether it's starting that business, you've always wanted to own, or setting off on that trip you never want to forget. We support you in building a brighter tomorrow. Intuit has helped over 100 million people take control of their finances. Now it's your turn. So let's get into it. So the pandemic begins and you started knitting. I did. Never done it before. I hadn't. No, I hadn't.

Well, you know, I realized, no, I hadn't done it seriously because we were really, we were raising that time where it's sowing and knitting and all that stuff. That was what your grandparents did, which are all my whole family. Everybody in my family, so does I, you know, grew up. So we were raised in that way, but we came from a culture like, I think, all working class families, particularly black families, where everybody so close for other people to make a living.

They were carpenters. They were fixers, menders, makers. So I came from that. But on that ascent to greatness, going to school, you lose track of that. And I certainly did. So it was interesting that in that time of stillness, that that was a thing that I thought of, let me try to knit.

It was just like that. So I ordered some knitting needles because I was spinning and I needed to quiet my mind. So I taught myself how to knit. But I talk about knitting. I use that as a metaphor in the book. It's one of the first chapters is called The Power of Small because what happened to me in the course of knitting, the task of

first of all learning how to do something new, learning how to do something with my hands, right, which is something we get away from, you know, working with our hands, making something. It was meditative for me in a time when I was depressed in quarantine. I was watching the news. I was looking at Trump. I was mad about the world. I was looking at the riots.

And I had been asked to do the speech for the convention. And I was like, I have nothing to offer anybody right now. I can't motivate anybody to do anything. I couldn't even think of what to write, but it was interesting how the process of knitting quieted my mind. And for me, I didn't even realize, I wasn't doing this for any kind of, you know,

spiritual reason. I was just trying to use up some time, but there was a quieting that happened. And then as I started thinking about it as I was just trying to use up some time. But there was a quieting that happened. And then as I started thinking about it as I was writing the book, the beauty of knitting is that it is one stitch at a time. You don't get anywhere without a knit and a pearl and a knit and a pearl, and it's a row over a row.

And there was some power in being able to control and make something. The thing in my lap, I could control. And that's what I started thinking. And it's like, that's what's wrong with me. I'm trying to go big. I'm trying to think of a big speech. And I don't have that platform in quarantine.

But I can focus on what's in my lap. Let me look at what I uniquely can control. What is the truth is what's in my lap. Let me look at what I uniquely can control. What is the truth is what's in our lap? The fact that, yes, there are riots going on, but there are people who are also coming out and marching. They saw brutality, but the country remember for a time it come together around Black Lives Matters.

There were all these emergency workers who were sacrificing themselves in this quarantine. People were giving. We were a better nation than we were being taught. But we lose sight of the beauty of what's small because we're taught that big is better. This is where great becomes the enemy of the good. And you don't have the power to change the world

until you do the thing you actually can control, the thing in your lap. Let us now value the power of small. We want to change everything, but we don't want to vote. When voting is the thing, we uniquely control. So I use that as a metaphor because now when I'm feeling really down, I think about what's the thing in my lap. And that's the power that I have in the small thing that's in my lap.

And I think we all have that power when things are... Did you knit those scarves? I did not. That was free. It was a free knitting. What did you end up knitting and do you still knit? I still do. Well, I had to stop when I was writing the book and doing the book tour because it's hard

to write and knit at the same time. But yeah, I made sweaters. I made hats. Oh, one year, everybody I know got a blanket. I made baby sweaters for Pad. How do you know when you're finished knitting something? When the outfit is done, David. Well, yeah, I get that.

When the hat is done, you buy it. I know a little something about this. When I was a kid, I learned to knit at that age. Did you really? Yes. You're lying. I'm not lying. Really? Yes.

OK, so what did you knit? Well, that's why I asked how you know when it's done. I what I loved exactly what you talked about. You your mind narrows. But you it does. Yeah, you focus. But I didn't know. And so eventually Labor Day came around and I had to go back to school.

But in the meantime, the thing must have been like eight feet long. So you were just knitting a straight rectangle? Well, no. It was more in the shape of a shovel. It was narrow and wide. And then it's wide. And then it's wide big. Yeah.

But I do, and I'm sorry, I wasn't more productive. So you didn't learn how to even out your rose. So who cares, that's for losers. So you were. But I do know the therapeutic part of it. So that was my point, yeah. Absolutely. My name is Maryanne Robinson, and I am Michelle's mother.

The one thing I wish even children nowadays did not worry about whether you would like or not because it can get in your way. And I figured I might as well tell her early because you can get in the habit of not caring what some people said. You care about things that are going to improve your life and you care about what people say who are helping you, but you don't care about small things. Well, I always say you walk down the street and the person says, oh, that red coat is beautiful. You take two steps and the next person says, well, you have that red coat on. It looks funny. Well, now there's two people that you run into in 10 minutes time. So what do you do? You wear the coat you want to wear and not care about

either one of those people. And you need to do that for your whole life. Don't worry about being light. When you get ready to be light to come home, we like you. We'll be right back with more of my discussion with David Letterman. You're listening to the Audible Original Michelle Obama The Light podcast. Like what you're hearing, listen to more from Michelle Obama between episodes the Audible original Michelle Obama The Light podcast. Like what you're hearing?

Listen to more from Michelle Obama between episodes on Audible. Sign up for a free Audible trial and get your copy of the Light We Carry audiobook. For now, enjoy listening to The Light Podcast. So that's, you know, one of the suggestions, especially in these times, is we feel overwhelmed because we are all feeling overwhelmed. There's power in getting a thing done, having a routine. Barack and I had to learn how to do this in the White House because when your motorcade is 20 cars long, when you can't even walk out the door to get fresh air without setting off

alarms and having cat teams come in, we for eight years had to be incredibly mindful of how we moved and we couldn't move far without huge to do. So we had to learn how to stay sane in that environment. And so having a routine getting up, exercising. I mean, it sounds trivial. But when I talk to young people who are struggling with depression, it's like taking care of your body and doing small things like waking up at the same time every day. We implement it. Those kind of practices. I kept our family on a routine. We had dinner when we were isolated at the same time. The kids had class.

We would take regular walks. We got back into a routine. And that doesn't sound big, but that's the power small. That you slowly work your way out of some of those moods. If you're not dealing with deep, deep dark, chemical depression, some of it is just, it is as small as getting up, taking a shower, not going days on in, doing the same thing over and over again. Those small tools can be as powerful as the big change you think you need.

And I resort to that a lot, you know, I have to think of big initiatives not in terms of the in product, but what do we get done today to end childhood obesity? What can, what do I have control over as first lady that I can uniquely do? Because if you look at a big problem, why started if you can't fix it all? But change is small, change is like knitting. It is a knit and a stitch at a time and we lose sight of that and sometimes we give up because we can't do it all But there is power in doing something every day towards a goal. Well

You're very kind Having known you you my friend are the way Human should be. Oh. Thank you David. Michelle Obama, ladies and gentlemen. David Letterman. Thank you. You Chicago. I love my town.

So it doesn't have to be knitting. It can be anything. Drawing, painting, writing painting writing fixing things basket weaving Whatever you want it to be Because let's face it. We live in a world where it is easy to feel overwhelmed It's easy to feel like we don't matter But creating building engaging oh those actions remind us of our power, our power to make change, our power to create something from nothing. And that's a fundamental truth

that I always want young people to know, that yes, there will be days you feel alone or you have no clue what happens next. But that's okay. It's good even. Because the experience of finding your way out of those moments, the ups and downs of figuring out who you truly are. Oh, that's how you figure out where your power comes from and how you want to use it. Your future is totally and completely within your grasp, even if it doesn't always feel

like it. It's easy to feel overwhelmed if you only focus on the scale of the mountain in front of you, whether that's a problem with your significant other, or making new friends in a new city, or combating inequality, or discrimination, or climate change. But if you break those things down, if you just keep working at it day by day, step by step, action by action, you'll see that you're making progress, and soon enough, you'll see that you're part way up that mountain, and that the summit isn't far away. That's the power of small.

If you unlock it, it's a way you can move mountains. This has been a higher ground and audible original, produced by higher ground and little everywhere, executive produced by Dan Firmann and Mukta Mohan for higher ground and Jane Marie for little everywhere. Audible executive producers Zola Masheriki and Nick DiAngelo, audible co-producers Keith Booten and Glenn Pogue, produced by Mike Richter, with additional production by Joyce Sanford, Dan Galuci, Nancy Golembisky, and Lisa Polak. Production support by Andrew Epen,

Jenna Levin, Julia Murray, and Colin McNulty, location recording by Jody Elf. Special thanks to Melissa Winter, Jill Van Lokerin, Crystal Carson, Alex May Ceeley, Haley Ewing, Marone Highly-Messkel, Sierra Tyler, Carl Ray, and Jerry Radway, Meredith Coup, Sarah Corbett, Tyler Lecktonberg, and Usra Najum. The theme song is unstoppable by Ceea. The closing song is Lovely day by Bill Withers. Audible head of U.S. content, Rachel Giazza.

Head of Audible Studios, Zola Masha Riki. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. This episode was recorded live at the Chicago Theater in Chicago.