Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - W Kamau Bell

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Comedian, activist, and creative executive W. Kamau Bell talks about growing up in different cities across the country with his mother and spending summers with his father’s side of the family in Mobile, Alabama. He opens up about what it means to be a good parent and reminisces on his grandmother’s lost recipe for her fried pies.W. Kamau Bell is known for his social commentary on race, justice, and inequality. He hosts and executive produces the Emmy Award-winning CNN docuseries United Shades of America with W. Kamau Bell.Find the episode transcript here: https://www.audible.com/ymk/episode6 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I told my mom like I signed you up for snack and she was just like because it was like you're supposed to make something and she just like grab the box of jiffy cornbread she sort of like threw something else in to make the thing seem a little more homemade kids were like because I wasn't probably a white private school at that point oh, and she just laughed about the things that those kids thought they were getting some sort of like homemade African-American classic depot recipe. Welcome to your Mama's Kitchen, the podcast that explores how we're shaped as

adults by the kitchens we grew up in as kids. I'm Michele Norris. My guest today is W. Kamal Bell. And among other things, we talk about his quest to find a taste of home. And for him, that means the taste of fried pies. Now, some of you hear the word fried pie, and you think of those little apple fritter things

you get at McDonald's or those hostess treats. That's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about fried pies that are made in somebody's kitchen, little pouches of pie crust dough that are fluted around the edges and stuffed with a hot gooey sugary fruit filling. Apple's cherries, peach is my personal favorite. And the best part, the whole thing, that little crescent-shaped confection is right up to a beautiful golden-brown crisp. It's a little pocket-sized single-serving dessert that you would have all to yourself, and it has a deep history that's

rooted in the South just like today's guest. W. Kamal Bell is a comedian, activist and writer known for his biting commentary on race and inequality in America. He's exposed some of the ugliest parts of America's history and our current division in his work while at the same time managing to make us laugh. He was the host of his own show, United Shades of America, on CNN. He produced a documentary called We Need to Talk About Cosby, and more recently, the HBO film about a generation of multiracial children called 1,000% Me.

Kamal was born in Palo Alto when he lived in Boston, Indianapolis, and Chicago, but every summer, he always returned to his father's home in Mobile, Alabama. Those were summers filled with family, community, and a lot of food. And to this day, even though he's lived in the Bay Area in Northern California for years, he still sees the Gulf Coast town of Mobile as his true home. And that's what brings us to those fried pies. That's the taste of home for Kamau. Not his mama's fried pies, but her mama's fried pies.

It's a taste he can remember, but can't quite replicate, because his grandmother never wrote the recipe down. In this episode, we learn about what Kamau has learned looking over his shoulder to assess how the elders in his life influenced his journey. over his shoulder to assess how the elders in his life influenced his journey. This is a podcast that begins with a simple question. Tell me about your mama's kitchen.

And I know the answer is gonna be interesting because your mama is someone who's done some stuff. Yeah, I mean, the room though, my mama's probably least interested in any place she's ever lived has been a kitchen. That is not her area. Like it's not that she's, I wouldn't say she's a bad cook.

She just is doing what she needs to do to get the job done. And what do they mean? That means I have a child, I have to feed this child. And I do understand that I would like my child to eat vegetables and like my child to not eat the same thing every day, looking back. It's like explaining beanie weenies to people.

It feels like I'm talking about a story of neglect, but it was like. What, wait, beanie weenies? Beanie weenies. Tell me about a beanie weenie. I think it was literally, and if my mom's gonna hear this, but I think it was literally a can of pork and beans poured into a casserole dish,

and then like three or four hot dogs put in that dish and then put it in an oven for a period of time. And that was dinner. I don't think there were other things added to it. We did a lot of garlic powder in my house, but there was some garlic powder. But then there'd be a salad. It was just pork and beans. It was only when I got older and left and went to other people's houses that understood the ranges of cooking that some moms did.

My mom was very clear that like, like she came from, she grew up in a house where her mom was like the classic black mom and therefore black grandmother. I know all the recipes, but none of them were written down. And I will just go in the kitchen and make some things happen and nobody's gonna really know what I'm doing.

And my mom, I think really stayed out of that room because I think she associated that space with domesticity. And that was the last thing my mom wanted to be looked at as someone who had been domesticated. And your mother was, she's an academic. She has her own publishing house. She has published several books herself. So she didn't necessarily see a domesticated role for herself. No, she was single black mom back when that was a slur. Broken home was the thing

that they would say on the news, that was a technical term. And we would laugh about it. Like, come on, you realize you live in a broken home and we would laugh and laugh. And I would see my dad in the summer, so I had a connection to him. But she was out there like hustling and working and started working out in like corporate America and may helping to edit English textbooks. And so the kitchen was the place where it's like, and again, I'm not trying to put it. She just was like, I need to feed my child, but I also need to be efficient about it. Cause I got a lot of things to do.

Cause I got stuff to do. Yeah. A lot happens in a kitchen. There's a lot of business that happens, you know, within those four walls. And sometimes it has nothing to do with what you serve on the plate or cook up on the stove. What else was happening in that kitchen? I joke about it now,

but we cared more about conversation and connection than we cared about the food necessarily. As a kid, I didn't think of the food as bad. The food, I love beanie-weenies. I loved my mom's spaghetti and meat sauce. Like, I love these things, but it was more about like conversation and connection. Like I think me and my mom were just always in the midst of conversation,

and I always felt like nothing was off limits. And also our house was like wall-to-wall books. So there was just always conversation about books. There's always conversation about TV. My mom and I was a little kid would listen to all of my Bruce Lee trivia facts, whether she cared or not, because she just wanted to be in conversation, whereas I don't know that my dad ever wanted to know about any of the things like I was interested on that level, whereas my mom was sort of like open to like, I mean, the best example is sure we can talk about the TV show The Duques of Hazard and how you love the car the general Lee. She was just sort of like,

this is what my child wants to talk about. We will be in conversation about it. She just wanted to hear you talk. Yes, I heard Damon Wayne say this one time that his mom was like, if he drew a circle on a piece of paper, she was like, you're Picasso. And I was like, yeah, that's the mom I had.

So when you have kids, and you're trying to have conversations with them, particularly when they go through the twin years and then the teen years, it's almost like trying to keep a balloon in the air that doesn't have, that doesn't have helium in it. And you're hitting it, you're trying to keep it up, you're trying to keep up that conversation, keep it going, keep it going.

And kids enter a space at some point where they kind of don't want to talk to you. How was your day fine? Yeah. What are you doing? Oh, you know, whatever. But you kept talking. Yeah. What was you doing? You know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But you kept talking. Yeah. What was the secret?

Why is it that she was able to keep that door of communication open, even when you entered that phase, that for a lot of kids is a shutdown phase? Yeah, I mean, any of my stuff that happened in high school, like the sort of the teen years, none of it disconnected me from my mom. I think she really understood that it was like the two of us against the world and she was sort of raising a friend

and not raising a son. Now her friend was her son, but I also didn't feel like there was not an authoritative feeling in my house. Like there wasn't a feeling of like where's with my dad and I was in some of the them. He was my father. He was older than me. I've done more than you. I've no more than you, which creates distance. So it's interesting as I hear you as a black man say that your mom was whazing a friend because for a lot of folks who grew up in African-American households, they often hear, I'm not your friend. That's what you're from. You know, I'm not one of your little friends.

You know, you can do that with one of your little friends. Yeah, and don't talk to me like that. Yeah. But you never heard any of that. No, but I felt like my opinion mattered to her. I only don't say this now because it would probably sound weird. But for years as a kid, if you'd asked me, like, who are your best friends,

I would have listed my mom as one of my best friends. Well, that's beautiful. Yeah, and at the time, and you get to an age where like, that sounds weird, but like, but at the time, I didn't know it was, it just was like, we had a really close relationship while at the same time. And you still do, right?

Yeah, yes, absolutely. She lives here in Oakland, my kids seer regularly. Yeah, we have a real close relationship. But I just didn't, I didn't think that my opinion didn't matter, but also at the same time, we were super independent. Like we lived in Boston. I looked back now and go, man, how'd she pull that off?

It was like a three bedroom house with a finished basement, just two people. And I would like wake up and make myself both share on a Saturday and watch cartoons all day. And she would be in her room or in the living room doing stuff. So like, I felt a real sense of independence while at the same time a real sense of community kinship, communication, open on communication.

Did she have a kitchen personality? Was she different when she walked in the kitchen? Because for some people, men, women, all kinds of people spend time in the kitchen. Sometimes they become more efficient, sometimes they become more felicitous. What personality did she take on when she entered that space? Sometimes it's like, let me do what I had to do

so I can get out of here, whatever it is. What was your mom's personality? I was finding that as I thought, like, what was your kitchen personality? Because I never thought of it. It was like, for some reason Liam Neeson and Taken comes to my life. I have a set of skills. Like, I'm here to do the things I need to do.

I'm not doing more than that. I'm here to feed you. And once I've made the thing, I can then relax and move on to the next thing. Clean it up and then move on. There's a story that my mom likes to tell is that I was in like first grade and you had to sign your parents up to bring a snack. And so that morning, I told my mom,

like I signed you up for snack and she was just like, salava, like, because it was like you're supposed to make something. This was the era of like, you're not allowed to just bring a package of things. You're supposed to make something

and she just like grabbed the box of jiffy. Like, jiffy cornbread, a classic staple in black household, especially of that era. And like made jiffy cornbread. And I think put some raisins in it. Like she just was like, what about raisins and cornbread? Don't quote me on this. But there was some sort of like, if she hears this and she says, don't you tell somebody I put raisins in the cornbread? Maybe let's say it was a muffin mix, but there was some sort of like, she'd sort of like threw something else in to make the thing seem a little more homemade and then took it to school. And the thing is

I remember kids were like, because I wasn't probably a white private school at that point. Oh, and she just laughed about the things that those kids thought they were getting some sort of like homemade African American classic deep home recipe. And it was a box of something in our house that she just sort of begrudgingly made quickly. A word about jiffy cornbread though. No, hey, for a jiffy cornbread. No, no, no, no, I have nothing but respect. If you hand me cornbread, I'm still expecting it to taste like jiffy to this day. It's the default.

It's the, and then I sort of like, it doesn't taste like dessert. Like cornbread. Right, because you wonder, have you looked at that little blue box on the side and see what the sugar content is? I know, yeah, not as easy as it is. It is. It is at a sweet.

There's a reason it tastes like dessert. As you know, I typically ask my guests to describe their mama's kitchen, but in Kamau's case, he spent every summer with his father in Mobile, Alabama. And so I wanted to hear about that kitchen, too. Since Mobile is the city, he considers his true home. When I think about visiting my dad in Mobile, and I lived there for two and a half years at one point, so I did spend some extended time there.

But it's not my dad's kitchen I'm talking about. I'm talking about my stepmother's kitchen. And my stepmother's kitchen, Larisa, she since passed away. She was the opposite of my mom. She would get up and you'd get a breakfast and it would be like freshly cooked grits, not instant grits, connect sausages, which is like very southern, very southern tosses.

You know, I'm thinking about a special breakfast. There might be fried oysters, cream of wheat, cut up fruit, especially for like a special breakfast. And then you go, man, that was great. And you look in the kitchen, what's she doing? She's working on lunch. And this is a woman who was like also a registered nurse. This is just, this room is very important to me.

I got the latest gadgets. This is before the internet. I'm collecting recipes. She was part of a gourmet club. And then dinner is like a whole other thing. So it's like, they couldn't be more polar opposites. And I enjoyed the food out of both those kitchens, but the food out of Lerisa's kitchen was like an event. As close as you are to your mother and how you've moved around,

that when you think of home, you often think of mobile. Why is that? Because those places are still there. There are still people in those places who know me since I was a kid or know me since I was younger. So I can go to the church that my grandmother used to go to. I can literally walk from that church to her house that is now abandoned. I mean, I don't know if it is now, but when we went it was abandoned. Those sense memories, the streets look the same. It hasn't like been totally gentrified and turned into something else. They're still

going to be an old lady who's like, I have known you sent you or a baby and I'm like, man, I met you when I was in high school. You know what I mean? Like it's just like, I don't know your baby, you're younger than her. So. Yeah, exactly. And my dad still lives there.

So there's a reason to go back where I was like, I lived in Indianapolis when I was a kid from like, I don't know, from little baby till I was like four, I have no idea what that apartment complex looks like. And so, mobile, because I've been going there my whole life. There's always like, ah, this little tiny airport, it feels very familiar in a way that like as a kid I resented, but as an adult,

I came to really appreciate it. And then as an adult who had kids, it was like, I gotta take you guys to mobile. And when you took your kids to mobile, you took them to the Mardi Gras parade. My oldest daughter, yeah, we went to Mardi Gras, yeah. Mobile is the home of Mardi Gras. People think it's New Orleans,

but it actually all began in Mobile. It began in Mobile and New Orleans. People are listening right now getting their feelings about it, but the way the math math is that it started in Mobile. The difference is in Mobile, Mardi Gras is a very church-filled community organization, child-friendly thing.

New Orleans is looking get a different direction. When you went back to Mobile for United Shades of America, your show on CNN, it was really hard for you. I mean, it was a beautiful thing to watch, but it was a difficult thing to watch because you put your emotions right out there for everybody to see. And you edited that so you could have put that out. But you decided to keep that there. Why was that so difficult?

And why did you decide to share that aspect of your story? So what happened was the producer that year, we were like, oh, we're gonna shoot that scene in your grandmother's house. And I was like, okay. And suddenly we pull up and I look and it's abandoned and it's boarded up. And I just viscerally start weeping.

I felt a little bit like again, like you're not treating me like a person, your team like, well, host, we'll take the host to his dead grandmother's house and he'll talk about it. And so I'm all my feelings are firing off. You didn't know what you were going to see when you got there.

And didn't know how it was gonna affect me and I sort of, at that moment, like somebody should have thought this through. Somebody should be thinking about my experience. Wasn't until a year's in the show, Mo Fallon, one of my best friends who became a pretty special show who always always think about my experience. So then there was the cameraman, Patrick Higgins, who was the director of photography in the show.

We had formed a real friendship. And the first time I had recried on the show, I was like, Patrick, come here because I knew he would just get the shot. I'm talking to the viewer at home, but I'm really talking to Patrick. So in that moment, I was like, call Patrick, tell him to get his camera up as soon as possible. You wanted him to catch your emotions? You know, it takes camera people a while

to get their stuff together if they're just sort of doing it. If we wait a half hour, it's just not gonna be the same. And I know that whatever value there is in me having this emotional reaction, it's only worth it for the show if we catch it. So it had to be authentic. Yeah, and I just worth it for the show if we catch it. So it had to be authentic. Yeah, and I just wanted to have the show where I wanted

where in the moment I could talk directly to the camera about how it's feeling, and we can cut it out later if it sucks. When you went back to mobile, you weren't just a host, you were a grandson, and a son, looking at a house. That once was vibrant, and full of love and activity and had a kitchen that Was the heartbeat and centerpiece of that house and then it was filled with serious catalogs and

My grandmother's she had a room that was just for her to sew in because she was the person the neighborhood of people brought her stuff to like make this or fix this and I laid on the floor watching her watch another world and Santa Barbara and other soap operas and the price is right. And me and my cousin, NK Jamison would go down the hall to the front of the house for this. The science fiction. Yeah. The high well-known highly claimed. Where we were both like six, seven, eight, nine year old to go to the front of the house where the sun would come in because because it was warmer up there, because the air conditioning was too cold. And we would sit there and I would draw

and she would write and we would talk about what we were gonna do and I was gonna be a comic book artist and she was gonna be a writer. Well, half worked out. And the house was then rented to somebody else and I got to go in the house one time after it had been rented to somebody else. It was just weird to see a bunch of strangers in this house

that was not their house. Get out of this house and take your stuff. This is not supposed to be here. I mean, my grandma's house is the house literally living room, nobody goes into furniture covered in plastic, like that house, never entertained in the living room. Nobody was told to sit down and things are literally covered in plastic.

You're listening to the audible original, your mom is kitchen. Like what you're hearing, the next episode is available now, exclusively from Audible. You can listen to new episodes on Audible two weeks before you can hear them anywhere else. Food can invoke strong memories and sometimes strong opinions. You may recall that in one of our previous episodes, CBS News host Gail King had mentioned that Kamau had appeared on her show wearing a shirt that was essentially a manifesto on mac and cheese. He was wearing a T-shirt, no joke that said, all mac and cheese has not created equal. And he's right about that.

There are no lies detected. Yes. We heard her side of the story in her episode. In this episode, I want to hear his. You walked into the studio wearing a hoodie or a t-shirt that said, not all mac and cheese is created equal. That's right. And apparently there was a conversation because some of the people on set understood that

and some of them didn't. No, there was a white man who was also the journalist there. Tony. Tony was like, what does that mean? And I sort was a white man who was also the journalist there. Tony. Tony was like, what does that mean? And I sort of looked at Gale and also looked at Nathan. Nathan, yeah. And I was like, I still like, you wanna step in here? Like, you know what step in?

Because this is your man's, I don't wanna give a taste for a weird conversation. So Gale and Nate looked at each other and went, they understood. And then somebody picked up the conversation because I just felt like I'm in your house, I don't wanna like school you on a thing. So maybe somebody else can help you.

So maybe you can school the audience on the words on that t-shirt. Not all mac and cheese is created equal. So it is a company called Mahogany Mommies, which I always wanna wrap. It's a black woman owned apparel company that has many amazing sweatshirts and t-shirts. Shout out to Mahogany Mommies.

Yeah, so that'd feel very authentically black. And that one just felt so like, surreptitious and it's what it's saying. I grew up only seeing craft macaroni and cheese and commercials for craft macaroni and cheese. I never had it until I was an adult. And so like going like, huh, and it was all these commercials about,

it's the cheesiest mac and cheese, and you'd see it in the commercial and it'd be like, that doesn't even look like mac and cheese to me. I don't even read that it's macaroni noodles and then like nacho cheese, and you'd see it in the commercial, and it'd be like, that doesn't even look like mac and cheese to me. I don't even read that. It's macaroni noodles, and then nacho cheese sauce on the top of it. I don't read that as macaroni and cheese. Like I just don't, because to me, mac and cheese is like a thing that is baked,

you know, you gotta put it in the oven. It's gotta be crusty and brown on the top. Now I know there's bread crumbs on there sometimes, at the time I didn't know, and you cut it into big, thick squares of mac and cheese that hold together. When you ask somebody if they're mac and cheese recipe, if they only use one type of cheese, you're like, oh, I'm sorry. You know what I'm just gonna have multiple.

You're not bringing the mac and cheese. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, please don't bring the mac and cheese to the house. So yeah, we'll take care of that. You bring the jiffy cornbread. But yes, literally, I made it to the day because my middle kid wanted me to make mac and cheese. And we do do box mac and cheese in our house. We do Annie's because we're Sidditi. So we will do that sometimes,

but Juno was like, I want data mac and cheese. Which is such a great thing to hear it called data mac and cheese. Well, yeah, I would strut on that forever. Yeah, no, for sure. It's tough. And like, you go, man, it takes me like an hour to make it, even, okay.

So what's so special about data, Mac and Cheat? So you make the sauce in a separate pan? I mean, there's a recipe, I find, let me be clear. Like my mom, I find the best thing to do is don't just Google Mac and Cheese recipe. Google easy Mac and Cheese recipes. So you don't end up in some weird, cayenne, New York Times recipe

that takes three days to make. That says you got to order the cheese from France or else it's not really. And then if you go easy back and cheese, it doesn't mean they're not good recipes. It just means they're like, they're aware that you're a person who's got other things to do. So. So what kind of cheese do you use? Grier. Mm-hmm.

And I can say a medium cheddar. Do you put breadcrumbs and if you do, it's a handcuffs? I do. The recipe does not call for breadcrumbs on the top, but I keep it real. So I throw some breadcrumbs. And if you do, the recipe does not call for breadcrumbs on the top, but I keep it real. So I throw some breadcrumbs on the top. And then the key part is under the broiler before you serve it because that's how you get the crust, the chewy bits. Otherwise it's going to all be soft.

And the thing you do a good mac and cheese is texture. You want to hear when the spoon goes into the mac and cheese. And everybody fights for the corners because that's where it is. You want the corners to be extra chewy. So you got to put it out of the broiler. When you put it out of the broiler, it'll say two or three minutes in the broiler, but you should know in your kitchen,

everybody's broiler is different. Yeah, because the last thing you want to do is put all that time into a mac and cheese and then have it come out as a crispy, burnt black mess. No, no, you mess. Don't walk away from a broiler is some good advice. Don't get a haircut before a big occasion

and don't walk away from a brother. We know you from your work and you make people think and you make people laugh. And you ask uncomfortable questions, you use your platform. This is one of the reasons that I love what you do.

I'll say that to you. Thank you for doing your work. I love what you do. And you take that microscope and you turn it toward the most difficult things. How much of that, that thread, that vein in your work comes from your upbringing and particularly the kitchens that you grew up in. 100%. When you rise through the levels of privilege, if you are a person who is black in America and gets a level of privilege, part of your job is the part that is like,

make it better for other folks. And so my mom, it's not an accident that she was publishing books of black quotations and not books of quotations by plumbers. She was like, I have the ability to self-publish these books. I'm gonna make it count. My dad, he was a corporate America guy who was like, I have the ability to self-publish these books. I'm going to make it count. My dad, he was a corporate America guy who was like working for insurance companies,

was also like, we don't have enough black people here. He was like doing DEI work before they had where there's an acronym for it. And so now I'm in this position of like, I sort of have both of them inside of me, where like my mom's the outside agitated, my dad's the inside agitated, and I'm sort of like bopping back in and forth.

Like I'm sort of like bopping around. forth, like I'm sort of like bopping around. If you had asked me when I was a kid watching Starting at Live, what do you want to be? I would have said I want to be a comedian like Eddie Murphy, but then I got to a point of like when I was sort of here, I'll wait, what is my career? Wait, I don't think I just want to be funny for like a funny, which is on the wrong,

and then it becomes about also having people hold the door open for me like Chris Rock back in the day and being very clear about why he was doing it because unfamous black guys don't get TV show so I'm gonna help you so that example is like. Oh, then that's literally what I'm supposed to do to. If three kids at three kids yeah, the sammies the oldest tune was the middle kid asha's the youngest all girls all girls won't girl factory. kid, Asha's the youngest. All girls. All girls. Girl factory. How do you create the kind of space that will nourish your kids in terms of not just the

food that they need, not just to make their bodies grow strong, but to make their minds and their spirits grow strong? So Juno is like, I want data back in cheese. And Juno has sometimes expressed interest in like, I want to help. And so I was like, okay, but you gotta help me. And so then it becomes about bringing Juno into the kitchen. We are then in community in a way different than if I just make the mac and cheese and put it on the plate.

So not only is she legitimately helping, and I kept telling her like, you were making this go so much faster, which is true. Now I am supervising, but she's also like making it go faster because I don't have to do all of it. It's a way to connect specifically like in that moment with my kid, with Juno, in a way that we wouldn't connect otherwise.

And it's also, it starts to develop the thing that happened for me. She will forever, I think, associate mac and cheese with that is mac and cheese. And she will one day put on a sweatshirt that says, not all mac and cheese is great and equal because she will know, she will eventually be at somebody's house where she's like, not all my Jesus, great equal. Because she will know. She will eventually be at somebody's house where she's like,

what? Oh, no, that's not how you do it. What? It's that time of the podcast where I ask our guests about a recipe from their mama's kitchen. And Kamau's situation is a little different, maybe a little challenging, because as we heard earlier, his mom was not exactly an enthusiastic cook.

So instead, he reached for a recipe from his mama's mama's kitchen. But sadly, she never wrote that recipe down. And Kamau has spent his lifetime thinking about the recipe that died with his grandmother. My grandmother used to make a thing called fried pies. The way I describe it, I was like, you know, like a hostess apple pie, but real.

Oh, the fritters, the ones that are, it's like an empanada, it's folded over and pinched together at the edge. I know what you're saying. And it's sitting in your hand, what you're talking about. Yeah, she called them fried pies. And so that was like the special recipe, they would, usually they were with peaches, I think.

And oh man, peaches, I assume we're talking about apples, but then when you say peaches, that takes it to a whole another level. It was like an individual peach cobbler. So I would describe it like a handheld peach cobbler, which peach cobbler is proof that there is something in the universe bigger than the rest of us. It sounds like that's the taste of home for you.

Yeah, I mean, that's the taste that I sort of, like I haven't had in, let's see, she died when I was in high school. So it's been well over 30 years. And I don't think she made them right before she died. So it's like there's no written down recipe anywhere. She probably learned that recipe before she could read. She didn't go that far in school. So, you know, so I'm going to ask our listeners

to help you out. All right. So if you're listening to this, I like this. And you grew up with fried pies. into this. Ooh, I like this. And you grew up with fried pies. If you are a baker and you think that you can help come out, recreate, make a pilgrimage back to the fried pies of his youth. Yeah. If you think you have something to add to this journey, we want to hear from all that. That'd be amazing. We're going to figure out how to do that. And I spent a lot of time in the Bay Area because my kids are there. And maybe we'll figure out how to make those fried pies. All right. That gets me excited.

That'd be great. This was an Indianapolis when she made them, but she was from Kentucky. So that helps. I don't know if you need that information, but that's what happened. What was so special about those fried pies? I mean, like I said, it was like a handheld peach collar. So if you, whatever you think, were they big, were they, were they kind of bite size? I mean, like I said,

the hostess apple pie. Cause those were kind of large. Yeah, but they were like three or four bites. Yeah, these were three or four bites. These might have been four or five bites. These were not little individual bites. Like I'm holding it like a big iPhone. Like I said, filled with peaches instead of filled with,

you know, whatever it's filled with. But yeah, it's a thing you hold in your hand that has, and again, it's been over there a year, but has some weight and you take a bite and it's hot. So the crust has a proper mouth feel, it's brown, like sort of light brown on the outside. Of course, the first bite, heat comes out, you can't even taste it yet, because it's just hot with the peach aftertaste, but super like that gooey peach cobbler thing

that some people don't like. It's the kind of jelly Latinx thing that goes on inside there. But there's still peaches in there, so it's not just jam. There's still peaches that you can bite down on. And it just... Yeah, Stonefruit does that. You know, people who make a good peach cobbler often have a little secret that they put into a peach cobbler because sometimes there's an undernote, an undertone kind of a base note. In there, I have a dear friend who used to put cayenne pepper. Whoa. Just a little, little hint of that sometimes a little clove, sometimes a little nutmeg.

Do you remember, did she have a little something in there that I guess I would have been too young to be in the kitchen. It's also times like nobody's saying, come in the kitchen and help me. Little boy. But did you take that? Was there something that you remember that it had a little kick to it? It is more than it looks like. I definitely would imagine there's probably a nutmeg thing happening in there. You know, I feel like that's a common thing in baking is to throw a little nutmeg in there. But yeah, there's definitely more than meets the eye or the mouth. We're going to figure that out one way or another. We're going to get that recipe back to you. If I made him for my mom, I'll be aware. Actually, that'd be pretty wonderful. She'd probably

appreciate that. No, she would because it's definitely a family like, well, that's gone. And also like at the time she made it is infamous between us of like, woo, that wasn't it. Well, and it is an important reminder that our recipes are part of our legacy and our inheritance. Yes. And so grab them when you can, if they're written down,

if you can't watch it, commit it to memory. You know what is funny? They say the secret ingredient. I'm sure the secret ingredient was Crisco. Or was that grease that's on the back? That's like bacon grease and all that. Oh, that's in the Maxwell. How is Joe in the back of the stove?

That was certainly part of it. It's funny now, like Mac Bacon and then we have the oil over and I feel weird throwing it away. I'm like, are we supposed to like put it on the back of the stove? Everybody grew up with that can in the back of the stove. Yeah, Fobulistus says, no, that's not what we do. We have olive oil, okay. Well, you don't have to make a fried pineapple.

I guess you could make it, but it wouldn't say. No, I don't make a fried pineapple, I'll know. I have love talking to you. Thanks so much for making time for us. Thank you for having me. This has been a beautiful experience. Comellus Story was filled with loving parents, two households, a big supportive community that raised him to be the creative, confident, complex thinker and entertainer that he is today.

And it's a delight to hear about the loving and intentional way he's parenting his own kids, particularly in the kitchen. I want to repeat something I mentioned earlier because it's important. Our family recipes are part of our legacy and more important than that, they are a part of our inheritance. So are the lessons we choose to teach our children and our kitchens. Intentionally or not, because young people are like sponges, always watching and absorbing what they see in here.

Kamal's mother worked hard to raise him on her own while balancing a career which sometimes meant beanie-weenies on the fly or homemade treats for field trips that started with a boxed mix of some kind. No shame in that. Throughout it all, she kept an open line of communication with Kamal, and in return, he felt so comfortable that he confided in her about everything and even considered his mom to be his best friend. Now, that is some A-plus parenting. Kamal may not have the recipe for the delectable fried pies his grandmother used to make, but we did a little digging. Astoround did some

experimentation in the kitchen and found one that we think might come close enough to take him back in time to those childhood memories of feasting on fried pies in his grandma's kitchen back in mobile Alabama. So just head to my Instagram to find that recipe and a few tips on perfecting the crust and giving the fruit a little kick with a secret ingredient. And remember, we want to hear about your fried pie recipe, so post on social media and make sure to use the your Mama's Kitchen hashtag. Thanks for listening to your Mama's Kitchen. I hope you have a glorious day. I'm Michele Norris. See you next time. This has been a higher ground and audible original produced by Higher Ground Studios. Senior producer Natalie Ritten, producer Sonia Tun, and associate producer Angel Carreras. Sound design and engineering from Andrew Epen and Roy Baum.

Higher ground audio's editorial assistants are Jenna Levin and Camilla Thurdecoose. Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Mukta Mohan, Dan Fierman and me, Michele Norris. Executive producers for Audible are Zola Masha Riki, Nick D'Angelo and Ann Hepperman. The show's closing song is 504 by the Soul Rebels. Editorial and web support from Melissa Bear and say what media our talent booker is Angela Paluso, special thanks this week to Clean Cuts in Washington, D.C. Head of Audible Studios, Zola Masheuriki, Chief Content Officer, Rachel Giazza,

and that's it. Goodbye, everybody. See what we're serving up next week. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Higher Ground. you