Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 116. Jimmy Carr Returns: The World Ordered A Comedian

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Jimmy Carr is one of the most successful comedians in the entire world. On the heels of playing Carnegie Hall and heading out to hundreds of concert dates across many continents, Jimmy Carr returns for another episode of Working it Out. Jimmy and Mike discuss the benefits and pitfalls of dark humor, what Jimmy discovered from several public cancellations, and why sometimes the goal is simply to get better than you were last year. Plus, what ever happened to ordering just a slice of pizza?Please consider donating to: Feeding America

You and I do such different types of comedy. You do... What are you talking about? You've seen my stuff. Well, I mean... You're like a one-man show edgy guy, right? That's why I'm here. Sure, yeah, yeah.

But here's how I would put it. You write jokes that are... Yes, just leave it there. And then you do what you do. You put on your little shows. And that's great. That is the voice of the great Jimmy Carr, and I mean great.

He is one of the biggest comedians in the world. This is Jimmy's second appearance on the podcast. I was thrilled to have him back. One of my favorite comics, has a ton of wisdom. His comedy, if you don't know it, is very dark.

He does a lot of gallows humor, but is a very warm person with a big heart. We talk about the sort of two sides of that comedy coin today. We have a great conversation. He's on tour in America right now. I couldn't recommend him more highly.

He was actually just at Carnegie Hall in New York, which is why we were able to record this in studio. It's also available, the full episode is on YouTube. So you can watch it as well as listen to it. He is currently touring Denver, Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Sacramento, all over Florida, really everywhere. He is everywhere in America. And this week, I myself am all over the place on tour right now.

I'm traveling to Boston for a week of shows called Christmas Parmesan. There's only a few tickets left to one of the shows. I think the second show, Saturday, December 16th, there's a few tickets. And then I'm embarking on the first half of a huge 2024 tour called Please Stop the Ride.

From January to June, I'll be in Montana, Vancouver, Seattle, Walla Walla, Portland, all over Florida, St. Petersburg, Orlando, Jacksonville, Miami, and then Colorado. All over the place in Colorado, Denver, Aspen, Beaver Creek, etc. I'll be in upstate New York. I'll be all over Texas. We just announced that I'll be at the Moon Tower Comedy Festival in Austin.

I'm super excited about that. I love going to Austin, Texas. Also Toronto, Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond. We just added a second show in Washington, D.C. There are two cities that people have been demanding I add to the tour. We are adding

those two cities this week. Join the mailing list and you will know all about that. Thanks to everyone who's watched The Old Man in the Pool. We actually were, we made it into the top 10 of Netflix. Holy cow. If you like the special, tell a friend. Today in the podcast, Jimmy Carr returns. We have a great conversation about roasting your friends, about parenting.

He's a new parent. And about the healing power of comedy. He makes a really convincing case. Enjoy my conversation with the great Jimmy Carr. You do jokes that are, I would describe as gallows humor, dark jokes, jokes that sort of go... I'm trying to change it. I'm trying to, I mean, I'm good with jokes. I'm very good at jokes. And the thing that you do, that narrative arc and the character-driven jokes, it's another level.

It's a muscle I don't use very often. So there's one or two moments in a show where I'll tell the truth and it really sings. And I'm trying to do longer bits of stand-up within it. Like trying to work that different muscle. Everything's a fastball with me. And that's great. And that's what people are paid to see. And I think you have to honor what the universe ordered. The universe ordered jokes. There's a comedian, you're a standup,

you're doing that. That's my job. I'm so glad that you're interested in this idea of having jokes, jokes, jokes, and then something that has a sentiment that you really feel. I think the audience is so smart as well. They get it in a heartbeat. They get what's a joke. Yeah. That's a joke. He doesn't mean that.

That's just a construct. I do a thing at the end of the show where I give young men advice on the talk. Yeah. The talk that you should have with your dad that no one is having with their dad anymore. Yeah. And it's important. It's like you can tell, oh, it's jokes, but he means this. Yeah. Young men should do it like anymore. Yeah. And it's important. It's like you can tell, oh, it's jokes, but he means this.

Yeah. Young men should do it like that. Yeah. Really interesting sort of talk around consent. You know, those kind of issues that you kind of go, well, the people that need to hear that might not watch your show.

Yes. But they'll watch, you know, the edgy jokes or whatever, and then they'll maybe pick it up along the way. That's interesting. I love that. I'm glad. Yeah, I'm really interested in it.

And it's also like a testament to, you've been on stage for thousands of hours at this point. And so you are really capable of letting go of, when you're your persona that tells the types of jokes that you tell, it's something of a persona. And when you're yourself, you're your persona that tells the types of jokes that you tell, it's something of a persona. And when you're yourself, you're yourself. And that's just from, I think, from hours of doing it. It is interesting, that thing of the different voices

that we have. I'm very different on podcasts than I am on stage. I listened back to a couple of podcasts recently because I was doing Joe Rogan's. And I kind of listened back to, does it unassist or whatever, to see what I'd said before on this. I did one about my sort of autobiography

and it was kind of weird. Like it's a different, it's much more me. I'm much more, very relaxed being myself. Yeah. On, you know, just chatting or whatever. It's nice. Well, it's funny because the thing that I know about you and I appreciate as a friend is that you are very deeply

generous and thoughtful in a way that your persona doesn't allow for. It's good. I think that thing of happiness is expectations exceeded. And because of how I am on stage, when I meet people, they're always delighted. He seems much more friendly than I thought he was going to be. Because if you watch my hours on Netflix, you kind of think, this guy. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Fun. Well, it's funny because you have that joke

where you're performing for terminally ill children and you say... It was a gig for a cancer charity. Yeah, Montreal. It was a cancer charity and everyone did great, yeah. Where, yeah, it was a cancer charity and everyone did great at the gig.

It was really fun and I think it was the, I was going on last and I said, I said, well, I've got to be quick, I haven't got much time.

What? I have. Oh my God. And then I, then I said, I, I did this gig last year.

Does anyone hear from last year? Yes. Spoiler. Yeah, I told a bunch of cancer jokes I did this gig last year. Does anyone hear from last year? Oh, yes. Spoiler. Yeah, I told a bunch of cancer jokes to people dying of cancer. But then I think that's when a dark sense of humor pays out.

Yes. Like in the run of life, your sense of humor doesn't really, there's no, what's it doing? What's the Darwinian advantage of having a dark sense of humor? Well, it is when terrible things happen. Yeah.

It's the way to cope to get through it that that kind of that light on the worst possible day yeah is the thing that you go it's it's it's it's the heartbreaker it's like yeah it makes things just a little bit better and you can kind of see that there is life beyond this yeah so even on your worst day you can laugh You can take a moment. Because you can't be frightened and laugh at the same time. Yeah. So those little moments kind of mean the world. And the people that are never offended by the thing, if the guy's dying or something,

there's a big difference between... People sort of conflate the thing and the joke about the thing. The joke about the thing is fine. I've got no problem with people joking, but The Thing is serious. You can kind of separate them out. I didn't know this feels like a decent enough forum to talk about. I had an extraordinary experience,

not to big myself up, but to big up comedy. I had an extraordinary experience where I do a thing at the end of the show where people send texts in. So people send text messages on before I come on stage, and they can text in. So kind of like a on before I come on stage and I can text in. So kind of like a virtual heckle. Oh, I love that. But they send me like their favorite jokes

and weird stuff and moral dilemmas. And they stitch up their friends and go, you know, my friend is here with a date, but he's married or whatever, you know, crazy stuff. Right, right, right. And we're doing a gig in, I think it was in Scandinavia. I think it was in just outside, like two hours outside Stockholm. Did this gig and we got a message in. Iavia i think it was in um uh just outside like two hours outside stockholm

did this gig and we got a message in i hadn't seen it um pre-show and this woman said uh i'm celebrating my uh like 15 bonus years tonight uh because of you thank. And I didn't know what that meant. And so I get chatting to the girl in the audience. It's bonus years. And she said, oh, I'm a depressive and I was going to kill myself when I was 15. And I was waiting till everyone wanted to sleep in the house and I was going to hang myself.

And I had nothing to do while I was waiting. So I was looking at YouTube and I found a clip of you and I laughed. And then I watched more and I kept laughing. And I'm alive now. My gosh. And it was like, I just didn't know what to do. Wow. I didn't know what to do with it.

And you kind of go, that weird thing that we do just for fun, just to make people laugh. And you go, well, sometimes some people really need it. Yeah. You know, on occasion, there's that thing where you go, because what is suicide? It's the permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's no perspective.

And what do jokes offer? Well, it's perspective. Yeah. That's what it's about it's like pulling back from this embarrassing terrible situation yeah you're jumping out a window and you're going to kill yourself because you you've got a sleep disorder but somehow you manage to get the focus wide enough and it's a brilliantly funny you know uplifting story yeah but it's a terrible thing happened yeah and having that it's just a But it's a terrible thing happened. Yeah.

And having that, it's just a really, it's a really kind of, it's not particularly about, I mean, it happened to be my stuff, but it could have been anyone's stuff. Right. It was just this gift of laughter. And the idea that you could,

you don't know as well where it ends up, who's watching your special now and feeling like, oh, maybe I'm not so crazy. I feel like that's the difference between when I was younger doing comedy and now doing comedy. I think my impulse when I started in my 20s was, I want to be famous. I want to be successful.

I want to make people laugh because it's this thing I do and whatever. And at a certain point, I think it does change over to the thing you're describing, which is, oh, actually, sometimes this has an effect on people's lives. And if you can do that, that's quite significant. But you know, people talk about ambitions. They talk about results. Yeah. And I think talking about like, what we're doing here process. Yeah. Like, if you find something where you enjoy the process, not the results, because people want to be movie stars. Yeah, I want to be a movie star. But I don't want to be movie stars. Yeah. I want to be a movie star, but I don't want to be an actor.

Yeah. I want to have been in a movie. I don't want to do it. I don't want to get up at five in the morning and film for the day and have someone else's in charge. That sounds fucking awful. This is great. It's awful.

It's a great observation. Yeah. But I want to have done that thing. Yeah, sure. I want to have written a book. I don't want to write another book. Yeah, yeah, want to have done that thing. Yeah, sure. I want to have written a book. I don't want to write another book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really hard.

But it's true, right? I'd love to have a hit album. Learning guitar? I don't even think I have to host this show. You can just go like this for five hours. But don't you think that's like, it's an interesting... This is too good.

I do. You're right. You're exactly right. But that thing of like finding the thing in life that you find the process. What's easy for you that other people find difficult? What's play for you? I read a great story about, I think it's Steffi Graf, had a thing where, I think some other girl gave up tennis when she found this out.

She went, she loves playing tennis. Yeah. And yeah, she went, oh, well, I love playing tennis, but oh, the training. And she went, oh, Steffi really enjoys the training. And you go, oh, you can't compete with that. You can't compete with that. If she really enjoys the training, if she likes getting up at six and she's out of bed going,

right, gym first, then practice, then 10, whatever. She's loving it. Yeah. And someone else is like, oh, you can't compete with that. What's the thing that people just can't compete with you? It's so easy for you to do because that's your thing. That's what I kind of want for everyone. I think that thing of like, it's not comedy for everyone,

but like finding that purpose where you go, yeah, that's, I'm trying to be more stoic in life and just write jokes. Yeah. Because that's what I do. Yeah, it's what you do. Yeah. Do you ever find that, for example, we don't have much time or I do, that joke.

It's like, do you ever find that in a situation like that, it backfires? Does it ever not go right? Yeah, I did a gig for a breast cancer charity. And I went on stage and I said, it's great to be here. If this was for leg or ass cancer, I wouldn't have shown up. But breasts mean a lot to me. Nothing.

I mean, literally nothing. Tumbleweed. Oh, God. But that thing of like, I think, again, it's perspective. The terrible experience in the moment then becomes a funny story. Yeah. And isn't that life? Isn't that the whole thing about doing a little bit of perspective

makes things kind of okay? You said this thing last time you were on the podcast, which really stuck with me, which is you were like, you're like, introduce me to a comedian. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll show you someone who, whose parents were sick. Yes. If you're, if you're talking to a comedian, the question you should always ask is which one of your parents were sick? Yes. One of them will be your, your, this is a compulsion to make things okay. Yeah. Because what do we, what do we do? What's our job? Well, we change, we change people's moods. Yeah. They sit down in a theater and the lights go down. We change their mood. We, we, you know, it's serotonin and endorphins. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's that, it's that thing of, you drug dealers that the drugs are on you

yeah that's right oh man I love that because I always think about like you were saying it's your coping mechanism I always think it's my coping mechanism and I'm sharing my coping mechanism with you, the audience

here's what I got here's what I've come up with if, the audience. Here's what I got. Here's what I've come up with. If this works for you, that's good. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's a really lovely thing. I think it's also, it's a muscle you can kind of work. Yeah. I think if you're feeling down or watching lots of comedy, it does kind of help. Yeah. It's watching it with other people seems to be the sweet sauce. It's a weird thing where when you watch a special on your own, on your phone on the way to work, you smile.

It's the funniest comic in the world. Whoever you think is the current goat, you can watch them and go, great. If you're in a group of 30 people, it's why I think people like TV at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Communal television.

You watch it with your family. That's why that episode of Friends was the greatest episode of Friends ever, because everyone watched it together. Yeah. The last Seinfeld, because people watched it together. They had friends come around and watch it, and terrific. Right, it's an event. Yeah, it's social.

Laughter is a social noise. Yeah. We're signaling to each other. But you're like on a world tour right now. You're going everywhere. You're going... Not right now. 20 years. I've not been off the road. Oh, yeah, that's true.

This tour finishes Easter next year. I have two weeks off. The next tour begins. There's no... That's my job. You're permanently on tour. Yeah, you're a touring comedian, which is what I am too. But you're going to Bangkok. You're going to Australia. You're going, you know, everywhere. 40 countries. Iceland's my job. You're permanently on tour. Yeah, you're a touring comedian, which is what I am too. But you're going to Bangkok. You're going to Australia. You're going, you know, everywhere.

40 countries. Iceland, you know. 250 gigs show file this year, yeah. Is it at a certain point are you just going, do you ever go like, what's wrong with me? Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I so compelled to go everywhere on the planet and do this thing? I don't know.

I think I've got into a business where, I mean, I had a joke about it years ago. I said I'm the hardest working man in comedy, which is like being the best looking guy in the Burns unit. Oh, my God. The bar is low. People do not work hard in our industry. They get into comedy and they write a show or they write 40 minutes of stuff.

And they rest. The jokes are the bullet. You're the gun. That working that muscle of like, it's always like, just write more, write more, write more. Get better. I think I've got better this year. That's interesting.

I think I'm better at this year. That's interesting. I think I'm like, I'm better at joke writing, better editing, putting in, listen, I mean, people might be watching this going, ah, this guy,

I hate him. Yeah, sure. But it's that thing of like, if you like what I do, like there's a, there's a, you're kind of getting better at the instrument.

Like I'm always amazed. I've got friends that are musicians. I've got my friend, Ronnie is a drummer. Yeah. Whenever I'm with him backstage, he's drumming on his leg. Yeah. He's got pants. He's got practice gear. You've got my friend Ronnie. He's a drummer. Whenever I'm with him, backstage, he's drumming on his leg. He's got pants.

He's got practice gear. You'll be having a conversation. He's practicing. It's like, well, I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to get better at drumming. One of the best drummers that's ever lived. And he's trying to get better all the time. Because he doesn't want to be better than anyone else.

He wants to be better than he was last year. Than he was last year. There's a lot of talk about goats in comedy. Yes, there is. I was up drinking with one of them last night, and it was fantastic. We had a great time. But I don't give a fuck about it.

The greatest of all time, who's the greatest? Well, you'll just be replaced by the next greatest. Of course. I'm such an advocate of comedy, and the idea that we're in this phase at the moment where this is a golden age. Yeah. And obviously in a golden age,

everything just looks yellow. Yeah. We can't see it because we're in the middle of it. Yeah, yeah. But it feels to me like George Carlin and Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor, yeah. They were John the Baptist.

Yeah. They set this and they were there so we could watch them when we were at the right age to take that and move it forward. And then you've got this generation of Lucy Kay and Chris Rock coming through, and then what's next? I see Mark Normand and Sam Morrell and I see Beth Stelling and Michelle Wolfe. There's another generation coming through. You go, oh, well, when those guys hit,

it's going to be that. It seems to be that thing of around 50 people make their best work. That's a lovely thing as well in our industry. It's an unusual thing about our profession. Good luck with that. Good luck doing anything at your twenties. No, I know it's, I really do feel lucky to be in my forties right now because I'm like, oh, it's a good time to be a comedian. It's the moment where you're the essentially comedy is sharing your experience combined with how witty you can be

about your life experience. And in your 40s and 50s, I think that actually does, there's a collision of those two. What's interesting, so little of my work is about sharing my life experience. So little of it. And it's something I should work on.

Because it's an interesting thing to kind of go. Yeah. I saw the show in London, and you know, we had it's an interesting thing to kind of go. Yeah. I find, you know, I saw the show in London and, you know, Brooke Caroline, we had a great time. And you kind of go, oh God, I love this. Yeah. And I kind of think, and there's a bit of me that goes, oh, I could never do that.

Yeah. And then there's another bit that goes, oh, I could probably do that. No, of course you could. And the proof is in your book because your book really goes there. You talk about your parents, you talk about your relationship with a lot of people.

And I love your book. I've, I've actually, I've talked about your book to so many people because. That is not reflected in sales. You need to, you need to, you need to, you need to send them a link, I guess. This podcast, I mean, we need a hundred, we need a thousand people to pledge today that they're going to buy the book. Well, because it's. That's the charity at the end of the show. It's called Before and After. It's a book and the money goes to a very worthy cause.

Well, here's my sell for the book. The book is about how to implement humor in your life, whether you're a teacher, a nurse, a doctor, because ultimately humor does make most situations better. And I think that there's not a book about that. You did it and you did it perfectly. Yeah. It's a nice, it's kind of a self-help book about, it's Echo Tali for Dummies. Yes. Because the people that need that don't, might not read that. People that read biographies of comedians or like my stuff and they kind of go, oh, that's fun. It's going to be fun. It's a

funny book. Kind of might not read that stuff, but it's kind of pointing them in the right direction. So it's like there's loads of quotes in it. They're like stuff that really has resonated with me and I kind of find... It's funny you should bring up Tully because when I was in London and I was feeling down, two of the people who were there for me were

you. You got the sense that I felt down because I was away from my wife and daughter for four and a half weeks. And then Eckhart Tolle, Pete Holmes recommended The Power of Now and it was very helpful for me. I fell asleep to it every night.

It is, it's really beautiful. It's a really beautiful thing. It's beautiful because it does this thing and I highly recommend this book to people, by the way. They're not going to buy mine now. Well, I'm going to recommend two books. No one buys two books. This is insanity.

Oh, my God. I know we're in Brooklyn, but Christ, two books. You and Tola have been at each other's throats for years. Fuck that guy. No, but he makes this point in the book yeah, he, he makes this point in this, in the book and I'm probably butchering it, but it's like separating your, your mind from your consciousness and acknowledging that the things that your mind is saying are most likely not even true. Yes. I think that thing of like, for me, if you look up the cognitive behavioral therapy thought patterns,

I found that a revelation. Just if you do CBT thought patterns, if you have like recurring thoughts, if you have like circular thinking, if it catastrophizes, if you're sort of thinking about what might have been or what could have been, worst case scenarios, you're kind of torturing yourself. And that relationship you have with yourself is the most important relationship in your life. Yes.

You're constantly kind of in your head. Yeah, and I think that the comedy profession breeds that type of thinking because we're rewarded for overthinking, for over-catastrophizing in a way. Because we're extrapolating out on hypotheticals all the time well but I think

the gift of anxiety I think is jokes yes I think the fact of you have a mind that's whirring at a certain speed

yeah and at 4am in the morning it might decide to think about something terrible happening yeah as opposed to the joke that you give it to work on

so I think actually the more work that you give it yeah you know a tired dog is a happy dog. Give your mind something to do. I think what you're describing

is exactly how I ended up being a working comedian, is that my parents were so averse to me being a comedian that I thought the only way that I can approach this... It's not just your parents. A couple of guys at the cellar as well. I can't help myself. I'm so mean to you. That's so fun! One of our producers, Mabel, was asking

earlier, she goes, does Jimmy make fun of you offstage too? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she goes, what does he make fun of you about? I go, I don't know, just everything. It's just pan. I find it pans across the board.

It feels like family. It feels like such a lovely... There's a lovely Australian phrase. The listeners to your show are nice people. They might object to the C word, but there's a thing in Australia where... I feel like I know what the punchline's going to be. But there's a thing in Australia where

if you have someone that you, a very close friend, you would call, a very close mate, you would call cunt. And if you have someone that you think's a cunt, you'll call them mate. I love that. Just, I mean, a really classic Australian thing. Do people ever burn you? Because you burn a lot of people. People ever burn you in a way that actually hurts?

I think I'm not really, I don't think anything you could say would upset me. That's interesting. But it's the, it's, but you know, sometimes when people are mean, I mean, people are genuinely mean, like occasionally when you get canceled, the worst thing about being canceled is you find out who your friends are.

Yeah. Which is wonderful and terrible. Yes. It's often not who you thought it was. Yes. There's one time which was kind of a... And cancel is a little overstatement because... Well, sometimes you get cancelled over a joke.

...piled on because you didn't end your career. No, but it's... You had the financial thing and then you had the thing with the joke that was controversial. Oh, I've had like eight things with jokes that have been kind of front page news. I'm thinking about doing a bit at the end of the show where I go, I've been canceled a couple of times. Let's go through them. And then you retell all the jokes and kind of go,

and then I did like 10 jokes at the end of that, which are, and here's what I think is going to be the next one. Right. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. That seems good. Yeah, I think it's a good idea. So you're saying you find out who your friends are. Yeah, I mean, that's nice. Yeah. That seems good. Yeah, I think it's a good idea.

So you're saying you find out who your friends are? Yeah, I mean, that's very painful, but also it's brilliant. But you get much closer to people. Like I have a thing now on, I think this is a, it's a really interesting thing. I think this is a transferable skill. If you take anything away from this podcast, take this. When someone is having a bad day, call.

Yeah, call. You don't know what to say. Sometimes it's okay just to call and go, I don't know what to say. Sometimes it's okay just to call and go, I don't know what to say, but I heard your mom died. I don't know what to say, but I heard you got the diagnosis. I didn't know what to say. I know a text message doesn't seem enough. I thought I'd just reach out and let you know that I'm thinking of you. That little, you never forget who texts you on the day.

If you're on the front of the paper and people are going, well, we might not work with them anymore, the people that call and go, no, no, we got you. Yeah. I always think there's a great therapeutic phrase, let's right-size. Yeah. Let's right-size this problem.

Yeah. Because sometimes it's like, I remember James Corden. He was incredibly good to me in crisis he's always kind of reached out and I remember the last time I had a thing I called him and went what do you think man he went you've got to right size this you told a joke

and some people didn't like it that's what's happened and then I was going yeah but I think you told a joke and some people didn't like it it's going to be okay that's what happened. And then I was going, yeah, but I think you told a joke and some people didn't like it. It's going to be okay. So one of the slow round questions is, is there a song that makes you cry?

Yes. Yes. I think, I find music is a great way to kind of, it's sort of the only way I really connect with grief and my mother was a big music fan like we would go and buy records every Monday when the records were released

we'd go to the Slough Record Centre and the guys in there knew us and they would play records and we'd buy some singles, you know you buy the singles and take them home and dance around the living room, it was great very fun lady and she was very before she died it was kind of the year before 18 months before jeff buckley's grace came out and we were very into that record yeah we were

into kind of nick drake and jeff buckley and so jeff buckley's hallelujah hallelujah way before it was a hit i mean like a good you know 10 years before it but it's it's kind of there's a great documentary about that song, actually. It's a wonderful, wonderful documentary, sort of a love letter to Montreal and Leonard Cohen. And it's phenomenal, but about the journey that song sort of went on. But Jeff Buckley's version of that,

it was, so we played that at our funeral. And it was, so for years, I kind of couldn't listen to it again. And I heard it again recently. You kind of, you feel it again it's weird with grief as well because when you're initially in it you want that thing to stop

and then 22 years later what you wouldn't give for those tears again because you can't remember it you almost can't remember what they looked like what they sounded like, their voice, whatever those little details are gone and you kind of miss it.

My theory on grief is it's cumulative. So sometimes when someone's dog dies, you need to be there for them because it's everyone they've ever lost. And then as we get older, it's our own mortality. So we're thinking about life, the big stuff, the stuff we should be thinking about. I mean, the whole of society and civilization

is about the obfuscation of decay. Yeah. And then the dog dies and you go, oh, we're just here for a minute. Yeah. That great quote of, you know, every man has two lives. And his second one begins when he realizes he only has one. Yes.

What do you feel like from your mother you will want to make sure you pass on to your two children? I mean, I think she was a very funny woman, very careful of life. I think it's easy to kind of, people become saints when they're little. No one bad ever died. She was really wonderfully funny and had a great kind of uh i think that

thing of like it was a great mood yeah when she was she was depressed i think she was the one that was sick yeah uh all of my life i just thought it was normal yeah that someone wouldn't get dressed for the day and still be in their pajamas when you came home from school yeah i just kind of thought that was just what people do yeah that's what what what do you want um but then when she was funny, when you could make her laugh and make things okay. Yeah. So the atmosphere in the house, the atmosphere of lightness.

Do you have a kid's joke for your kids that makes them laugh? They laugh pretty much constantly. They're just in a good mood. I've seen you with your kids and you're a riot with your kids. It's weird because you don't know who you're going to be. I found that very interesting when I, I didn't want to be a father for the longest time because I didn't want to be my father.

Yes. And then you realize, no, I'm not going to make those mistakes. I'm going to make new mistakes. Yay. But it's interesting like finding out who you are when you play that role. Yeah. So for me, it was like being a dad,

you kind of went, well, maybe I'll be the strict one. Yeah. Maybe I'll be the fun one. Maybe, you know, what's the... And what do you think you are? I don't know. It's really fun. I really like the voice that I have.

Yeah. My theory on this is like, I'm such a dummy. Yeah. For the longest time, I thought I was, life was a video game and I had to cheat. Yeah. I had like a cheat where I was like, I didn't have kids. It was easy. Yes. So easy. I've got nothing to worry about. Yeah. I had like a cheat where I was like, I didn't have kids. It was easy. Yes.

So easy. I've got nothing to worry about. Yeah. I was just at a very low stakes table. Yes. There's no stakes here. We're playing for nothing. It doesn't matter.

Nothing matters. And then you have kids. You go, oh my God. Suddenly, everything matters. Yeah. It's really good. I think that... Yeah, I think that's right on.

And I think that that's probably what we were talking about, how in your next hour, you may work in, whether it's stories or something sentimental or real, it's got to be about your kids. Because I feel like I know you before and after. There's a nice 20-minute thing on your kids. Oh, there is? I mean, a lot of it's just one-liners and talking about kids.

Yeah. Jokes are my love language. Yeah, yeah. I had a joke about love languages, actually. I think it was pretty decent. Like, you're familiar with the theory of love languages, so there's like some people, like it might be acts of service, or it might be gifting.

Yeah. Well, my love language is coming in people. Oh, my God. It's how I show affection. It's really funny, isn't it? Because it's the misdirected people kind of going,

oh, I've heard of this. Yeah. I've heard of this. I mean, is that in the new hour? No, that's like in the new, new,

that's the new hour that will come out. Oh my God, that's a riot. It's funny. That's, no, I have a joke in my new hour right now where I say, I basically talk about how Jen did something nice for me. She made me pancake.

And I go, you heard that correctly. It was just the one because she's familiar with my health profile. She knows that the right amount of pancakes for me to eat is just pancake. And so I wanted to do something nice for her because my love language is keeping score. And I go, and if you're laughing, yours is too. And if you're not laughing, yours is too. You're just losing.

Yeah, and if you're not laughing, then I'm one ahead. I love that. What's funny, because Jenny, my wife Jenny, who you know, saw the show and her takeaway, my new hour, her takeaway was like, I think the best thing is my love language is keeping score. I think that that's my favorite tidbit from the show,

and I think you should blow that out. Yeah. It's interesting. You make me think of a thing I thought of years ago. I never did anything with it, but the idea that what's changed in the world. I remember being a kid, you'd get pizza and everyone would get a slice. Yeah. Maybe two slices. Yeah. Now people get their own pizza. What happened? What happened? What happened? What are we working on? Type three diabetes? What are we doing?

What are we doing? It used to be... That is so funny. But you remember that as a kid, you would order a pizza. No, you're absolutely right. What are we getting on the pizza? I don't know, ham and pineapple.

Everyone's having a slice. Okay, and then, oh, there's another slice. Yeah. Great, lovely. We all finished? Yeah. Now we're going to get a pizza each. What the hell happened?

The fuck are you doing? Yeah, no, we didn't... no one used to get a pizza each. No, no, it makes no sense. It's insane. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, no, that's a great, are you doing that? That's not anything. That's not anything.

What am I going to do with that. Your Pete Davidson joke in that roast is so funny. I had a really interesting conversation about that recently because I met Eric Weinstein, who's a phenomenal public intellectual. I think the founder of the intellectual dark web. I met him at this thing and he went, I know you.

And I went, oh, I just got one of those faces. Yeah, yeah. And he went, no, no, you're a comedian, right? I said, yeah, I'm a big fan of your work. And he went, you did that joke about Pete Davidson. I hated that joke. I thought it was disgusting. Really?

Yeah. It was really interesting, and it was really heartfelt, and it was really interesting. It was incredible. I hated that joke. I hated it. I thought it was disgusting. Really? It was really interesting. And it was really heartfelt. And it was really interesting. It's incredible. I hated that joke. I hate it. I thought it was disgusting. Wow. I said, Oh, I said, Well, I checked with Pete that it was great. He went, you know, I hated it. Oh, wow. But it was that thing where you go, it's, it's a some for some people that that's such a sensitive topic. Yeah. That you, you, you can you can never joke about it you can never make it okay

I think the roast, if you're at a roast and you're going to be joking about that kind of stuff then it's all it's open season I guess I mean the joke if people don't know it

is Pete Davidson's father was a firefighter in uh he died in the in the twin towers and i know firefighters say hey we're just doing our job but that means genuinely that's a heroic thing to go in and try and save people's lives and i can't believe here at the roast uh you know people would would uh would joke about pete davidson's father this is not the roast of Pete Davidson's father. That was in 2001. That's still funny to me.

That's a funny joke. But you did run it by him. That's interesting that you did. Because I didn't know. I knew some of the other people on that panel. And they kind of go, and they kind of dumb jokes. But it's a very sensitive thing. And if he'd gone, I don't want to talk about it please don't do that because it's that

thing you kind of go it sort of felt like it belonged to him as well that's his story to tell yes that's his thing to well it's funny it's like there's the anne lamott book bird by bird which is actually sitting right here where it's brilliant book and she goes uh sometimes people say I don't have a story to tell and she goes if you had a childhood you have a story and I think that's true I feel like in my new hour I'm just digging a lot into my childhood and how the thing I'm digging into thematically in my new hour

is seeing the world through my daughter's eyes who's 8 years old I was about to literally quote that because that thing of having kids where you go, like my thing of like, why is the kids crying in the swimming pool? Yeah.

Because they think this is forever. What do you mean? Well, you put a child in a swimming pool and they go, right, we're wet now. This is it. They don't know we're getting out. They don't know we're going to towel off. Oh, yeah. This is our forever now.

Why are they crying? Because they're cold. Yeah. Because I guess the world's now cold. Yes. They have no idea. No, I think that's right. And I think so my new hour is about how seeing the world through my daughter's eyes,

I realized that when I was a kid, I thought my parents knew everything. And now I'm 45 and I'm the grownup. I go, oh, I don't know anything. Yeah, it's interesting that thing. I think there is a societal change that you could talk about there. Yeah. Because it used to be the only way you could learn how to shave was to ask your father. Ask your dad.

And now you can Google it. Yes, yes, that's true. And I think there's something about the YouTube video that tells you how to do your laces that is less valuable than finding it from an elder. It doesn't have to be father, mother, whatever. An elder. Yeah. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

I think recently, the one that sticks to mind is the, don't be the best, be the only. Yeah. Just be yourself. Just be yourself. You're enough. Yeah, I know you're enough. It's also that thing of like acceptance of what you are.

Yeah. It seems to be a bit of an issue in the world because it used to be that self was, if you think about what self is, it's a mediation between how you feel inside, your character, and your reputation in the world, how people see you. So knowing that thing of knowing how other people see you

and how you see yourself. So you say when you're 21, I want to be a comedian. And the world goes, maybe. You're funny. And then you do some spots and you give the world irre, maybe. You're funny and then you do some spots and you give the world irrefutable evidence. You are who you say you are. That's a big kind of life lesson.

I think sometimes people are living so much online that they almost become avatars of themselves. I think that mediation of self is very kind of, that's a very interesting phase in life of like finding who you are and does the world agree. And then kind of that thing of, I'm very into honoring what the world ordered. Yeah.

The world ordered a standup comedian, do that. Yes. Everything else is a distraction. Yeah. I've had that recently where, you know, like if I'm taking the subway in to, if I'm taking the subway in, if I'm taking the F train to West 4th Street to the Comedy Cellar to work on jokes,

I will not listen to music. I won't listen. I have a notebook and I'm watching what's going on in the world. Well, here's the great gift of boredom. I think we're overstimulated as a society. Someone's listening to this podcast now on a walk with the dog, and they're not there. They're here.

A couple of times a day, your head should be in the same place as your feet. That's a great piece of advice. A couple of times a day. A couple of times a day. My childhood was waiting at bus stops for 45 minutes. That seemed to be a lot of my childhood. Yeah. And you'd have to kind of times a day. A couple of times a day. My childhood was waiting at bus stops for 45 minutes. Yeah. That seemed to be a lot of my childhood.

Yeah. And you'd have to kind of amuse yourself. Is your life different than you expected it to go? Yes, it has exceeded all expectations. What did you think it was going to be? I thought it would be... I don't think I gave it enough thought. I think there was a weird thing of,

you know, what they don't teach you at Harvard Business School, what they don't focus on in schools, which they should. Yeah. It's like knowing yourself, knowing who you are. Yeah.

So I think that people should teach stand-up comedy in schools. Yeah. Because really it's about finding your voice. Yeah. Right? So we do different styles of comedy, different people. Yeah.

We found our style. Yeah. Right. So we do different styles of comedy, different people. Yeah. We found our style. Yeah. It's like I could hear, I could see a bit of your material written down. No, oh, it sounds like Mike. Yeah. And you could look at one of my one lines and go, yeah, it sounds like a Jimmy joke. Yeah. Like you found your voice through comedy. Yeah. You found a way to communicate and connect with other people through comedy these are incredible skills for teenagers yeah if you could teach them how to write jokes how to structure a joke how to think in that way yeah how to use that language if you think of comedy as a language yeah it's real value at all stages of life yeah i think it's a i think i'm working on this yeah this then that's the next

book the um uh or it might be like an online course that teaching jokes it's i think it's a, I'm working on this, yeah, that's the next book. Or it might be like an online course, the teaching jokes. I think it's good. We've done two workshops and it's, we're getting comics, like new comics to write 60 jokes a week. Oh, wow. 10 jokes a day. And that's your approach, is sort of like writing, writing jokes. Made of jokes.

Everything's made of jokes. Different styles, different types of jokes. Because most comics, they kind of, they're wondering why that joke isn't paying off. They go, well, you're telling different jokes, but they all have the same structure. You only do pullback reveals. Right. You can't only do those.

A couple of rules of threes and pullback reveals. Like, there's 50 joke types, roughly. Right. You need to switch it up. Yes. Put different things in. That's not getting the result because, and there's different ways to approach this.

Yeah. You've got a funny idea. What's the best way to present it? Doesn't have to be the first way you thought of. I wrote this joke that recently, which is we took our daughter to the dentist because she had an infection in her tooth and they pulled out her tooth and it was awful and painful. And her grandparents felt so bad, they gave her a hundred dollars. And so we pulled out the other 30 because we had to pay for the dentists because everyone's going to pull their weight around here that's that's all I got yeah it's a it's a it's a nice idea uh I think there's something in

there's something in that I wonder is it should it be the because you know that you didn't do that yes yes sure sure I wonder with you, and they gave her $100 for a tooth. Yeah. And she's got 31 teeth left. Yes. And it wasn't until I saw the bill from the dentist that I thought, hang on, she's got another 31 teeth. I like that.

It's the inversion. And then I got the bill for the dentist. And then I got the bill for the dentist. She's got 31 more teeth. You've got 31 more teeth. That's really nice. I said to the dentist, have you got any other kids' teeth? Yeah, I like that.

It's great. It's some version of like, you're starting a business selling baby teeth to old people. Yes. There's something in there. Yeah, there's something there. But it's got to's some version of like you're starting a business selling baby teeth to old people yes there's something in there but it's got to be the bill of you got the bill yeah that's an interesting reconfiguration of the same

yeah I like that and then the continuation of the love language is keeping score that I was telling you earlier is that and this is like a really half half-baked thing but I think it's

I think it's very ripe for something because my wife describes me as the narrator of our marriage because I'll be, and I'm so embarrassed of this, but I'll be doing the dishes and I'll be like, so I'm doing the dishes, you know what I mean? And then I'm going to grab a pint of ice cream because your parents are coming over and then I'm going to take the hair out of the drain

and the shower and blah, blah, blah. And then she'll just be like, yeah, you don't have to say all that. You know what I mean? I mean, it's an old reference. I don't know what the modern equivalent would be, but you're the DVD commentary. Yes, that's right.

Is stuck on. That's right. She's trying to watch the movie of your life. Yes. And you've got the DVD commentary. It's like... Right. You've got the DVD commentary. It's like... Right. You've got the subtitles on.

And I don't know how to fix it. So the last thing we do is working out for a cause. And of course, we're going to donate to your book and have people buy your book. But is there an organization that you like to contribute to and will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes? I don't know. What's a good New York cause? I always think that thing of

trying to give something locally. We always try to contribute to the food bank because I just think they're so good at stretching a dollar. So we'll contribute to Feeding America at feedingamerica.org, and we'll link to that in the show notes.

And thank you, Jimmy, for being my friend, for being there for me when I was in London. It's great to see you, man. And thanks, yeah. This is always, I love seeing you. It's been an honor and a privilege for you. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. Jimmy is touring all over the world.

He is, if you are living in the world, you should go see him because he will chances are come to where you are. He's in the US, the UK, Europe, Asia, all through the end of 2025. You can follow him on Instagram, at Jimmy Carr, Jimmy C-A-R-R. And you can watch the full video of this on YouTube, on my YouTube channel. Subscribe, join me on there.

We've got a lot of great videos coming out. You can see all of my tour dates on Burbiggs. Subscribe. Join me on there. We've got a lot of great videos coming out. You can see all of my tour dates on Burbiggs.com. Be the first to know about my upcoming shows, and we're adding a whole bunch of cities. Stay tuned for the fall, because I'm, I think probably in January, we're going to announce about

20 more cities in the fall. Right now, I'm performing in 25 cities this spring, so it's a big year for Please Stop the Ride. The producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbigli, associate producer Mabel Lewis, consulting producer Seth Barish,

assistant producer Gary Simons, sound mix by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer Kate Belinsky, special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz, as well as David Raphael and Nina Quick. My consigliere is Mike Berkowitz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Of course, special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein.

Her book, Little Astronaut, is a perfect holiday gift. Special thanks, as always, to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. And thanks, most of all, to you who are listening. We've recently popped up I think since the special in the top 25

of comedy podcasts which has been thrilling for us I think a whole bunch of new people found the podcast they just didn't know it existed

didn't know there's 120 episodes of podcasts existed in the universe that lead up to the old man in the pool so that's so fun and if you want to write a thing on The Thing with the Apple podcast,

with the stars, and say, what's your favorite episode? That really helps us out. Tell your friends about the podcast. Tell your enemies about the podcast. Let's say you have an enemy, and it's your neighbor who's drumming all the time. And you go over and you say, hey, will you please stop drumming? I can hear it through the walls. And they're like, I just wanted to get better

than I was yesterday. And you're like, sounds like you've been listening to Working It Out. I'll see you next time, everybody.