Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 141. Hannah Berner: Zaddy Issues

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

Mike welcomes fellow comedian and podcaster (Giggly Sqaud, Berner Phone) Hannah Berner to the pod. Known for her “Han on the Street” videos, Hannah discusses her journey from college tennis champ to stand-up sensation. Hannah also teaches Mike the meaning of the term “zaddy.” Plus, an athlete at heart, Hannah comes to the notebook section ready to work, bringing a bunch of new bits and stories to work out.Please consider donating to the Southampton Animal Shelter Foundation

I didn't even plan on being a stand-up comedian. Like, I wasn't one of those kids that was like, one day I'm going to have a Netflix special. It wasn't in my head. I always want to be a professional tennis player. Like, I joke that, like, my dream, I failed. Things went awry, and now I have a Netflix special. Ha ha ha ha!

[♪ MUSIC PLAYING FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES IN AND OUT FADES That is the voice of the great Hannah Berner. This is a first for Working It Out. Perhaps our first, wait for it, former reality show star turned comedian on the show. She is so funny. We have such a great conversation today. She was kicked off at this absurdly popular reality show called Summer House a few years ago. Along the way, she decided to become a comedian and I'm so glad she did. She has a Netflix special called We Ride at Dawn.

She has a podcast called Giggly Squad. She's wonderfully funny and great to talk to. She's got great stories. She has a story about her time playing division one tennis at Wisconsin and almost becoming a professional tennis player. She talks about some red flags and dating she's experienced. I know her husband, Des Bishop, who's also a great comedian.

It was such a joy to talk to Hannah today. I think you're going to love this. I am heading back out on tour next month. Before I do, I will be at the Emmys. I can't believe it. Very strange. Very strange life turn. I'm going to the Emmys. I'm nominated. The Old Man in the Pool was nominated for outstanding writing for a variety special. And every single one of the nominees has been a guest on Working It Out. Jimmy Kimmel, John Early, Jacqueline Novak, Alex Edelman, and me.

It's going to be like a working it out reunion. It's such an honor to be nominated alongside these folks. And I wanted to tell you about a cool thing we're doing to celebrate it, to put a cap and a beautiful bow on the old man in the pool era of my life. I've spent four years on this show and you've been there with me, a lot of you have been there with me for four years. It's kind of an amazing thing. We decided we're gonna raise money for the YMCA youth programs. So what we did is, you know the cards in my office, in my studio, if you ever watch

the show, there's the corkboard cards and they have jokes on them. Jokes and stories and different things and people are always like, you should give those away. And I always think like, yeah, I should give them away or auction them off or whatever. And then I thought, well, what if I framed the entire Old Man in the Pool show, like all the cards on like a framed corkboard, and then signed the bottom right where the artwork is, and it's on Charity Buzz right now. And can bid on it and all proceeds from that auction are gonna support YMCA youth programs which do great work. I make a ton of jokes at the expense of the YMCA, the Old Man the Pool, and I'm giving back. Starting in

September I'm heading back on tour. I'm going to Red Bank, New Jersey, Portland, Philadelphia, Madison, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, New Jersey, Portland, Philadelphia, Madison, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Champaign, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Nashville, Asheville, Charleston, South Carolina. So many of those are just gorgeous, gorgeous theaters. I couldn't recommend more highly. Check out ForBigs.com and join the mailing list for all tour dates. We're adding more cities for January, February, and March. We're about to make a big New York announcement for March. Love this episode with Hannah Berner.

She talks about having her dad as her tennis coach, the similarities between professional tennis and being a professional comedian. And we talk about how to decide if your material will be interesting to people who don't know anything about your life. We talk about the age gap in her marriage. She teaches me the definition of the word zaddy. It's a lot of firsts in this episode, a lot of laughs. Enjoy my conversation with the great Hannah Berner.

["Workin' It"] I was like this little weirdly athletic kid and I come from a sports family and they're like if you want to be happy you play a sport for a living. That's the only happy people that tell successes. So like that was what happiness and success was. But I always loved making people laugh and being silly and creating stuff. But it's funny too because tennis was so competitive. So with comedy I'm like wait, you don't have to beat up anyone. You don't have to win anything. You can just express

yourself. And I love the idea of like re-coaching myself to be nice with comedy. What do you mean by that? Tennis I was so mean to myself. Oh really? Well tennis it's the one sport you see people like break their equipment, yell at themselves, like have full mental breakdowns on the court. No I know. because you can't call timeout. You know, I know coaches So I would just leave a match and be like you stupid dumb bitch you suck to yourself. Yeah Oh, it's like a 12 year old girl. Oh my god. That's the first time I cursed on the court

I was like balls fuck shit. My parents are like what I'm like nothing. She says No, I was a monster to myself. No Now I don't want my daughter to play tennis. Don't, no, I mean, don't. That's really interesting. What I love about tennis for women, it's the one sport where we really had respect. Now other sports are coming up, but I grew up with Serena and Sharapova.

Oh my God, yeah. And those women are making money. Oh, big time. And my dad was literally that meme where he's like, let's get this girl to tennis. Oh yeah. And we also love the sport. Like Serena and Venus's dad. Yeah.

It's emotionally and physically a difficult sport because you're alone. But what I've done lots of therapy on is all those years in tennis, even though they were difficult, I've been able to transition it into a different career. And I always say just because you stop doing one thing doesn't mean you can't use those skills to be great at something else. And I think some people can be kind of, you think this is who I am, this is what I am,

when everyone's capable of so many different things. Tennis and standard pitch are similar because you're alone, right? Period. And head game. Yup. I say it's like, because tennis and stand-up is not a one-sided thing.

There's a lot of variables. We're not giving a speech. We're doing a dance with the audience. And tennis is like, I could think my serve is good, but what if their return is better? So it's a lot of like being on the road alone and dealing with your own mind. So with stand up, I've made a conscious decision to like be very positive with my like ego

and have a different relationship with the stage that I did with the court. So like when I go off stage, I'll be like, if something doesn't go right, I'm really nice to myself. Like I'll be like, wow, you handle that great. You got better as a standup for putting yourself through that. And I'm proud of you. Let's go to sleep. That's so interesting,

because I played tennis through high school. And I wanted to play in college, didn't quite go there. I ended up doing improv. Yeah. Honestly, our stories are the same. Yeah, yeah, similar. No, but I will say, there's so many things from tennis, my mom taught me, still

use. The person who wins the point is the person who hits the ball over the net more times. It's endurance. It's amazing. Right? Like, it's, and I think stand-up is the same way. I'd say this all the time, like, the people in in standup who succeed, they keep doing standup. They keep showing up.

Yeah, 100%. Everybody gets better if they keep doing it. Just get on stage. Yeah. And so many people, it's like 99% of the battle is literally just like convincing yourself to get on stage. You know how many people when they were starting out,

who I started with, who were like, they suck, and now they're like, they're good. Yeah. It's like a whole thing. Because now they're like, they're good. Yeah. It's like a whole thing. Because they kept showing up. What are the lessons? So I had that one from my mom. Yeah.

Which is keep, you know, my mom's whole thing, and I think this is true in standup, keep the ball in play. Yeah. I never say die on a show. Yeah. I'll never throw in the towel and be like, this audience sucks.

Yes. I'm not going to bring it. Yes. Do you have anything like that from tennis that you bring? 100%. Someone told me that the difference between top players is not their strokes. Like, everyone has the same strokes. You see the top 300, 500 players,

they have the same strokes. What's the different? It's their mentality. It's head game. And someone said the best athletes, after something bad goes wrong, they did some tests. I don't know how this test happened. I don't know if I'm making up the stat,

but that more of the top players had a positive thought quicker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's basically like you can't affect what happens to you, but you can affect how you react to it. Have a positive thought quicker. And it's how, like, on stage, if you see comics just sabotage themselves, where before they even go on stage, like, the audience fucking sucks.

And then they make it happen. And then they lean into it. And I'm like, I sometimes think my naivety with stand-up helped me, because I didn't start as traditionally, where I kind of was like, oh, it's kind of cool, I'm here. And with that experience and being nice to myself, I was able to kind of have more positivity with standup. And I really think that's how I got a special, because I was nice to myself and I was positive.

First time I did stand up was to a sold out crowd at Caroline's. And I did 10 minutes of standup, and I've never done it before. Wow. That's not the rules. No. I'd been like writing sketches and tweeting.

I got involved in like funny video stuff, but not stand up. And then I started a podcast and I was asked at Caroline's to do a live podcast. And I had met a lot of stand ups through writing like sketches and stuff. And my friend was like, do 10 minutes, who's not a standup, do 10 minutes of standup, take your tweets,

use them as premises or tell some of your stories. Really smart. And if I had gone the traditional route, it would be like, no, you have to do five minutes for three years in open mics, which does work. But I kind of did it and then after the show, people were like, my favorite part was the beginning when you were like talking to the crowd.

And I remember being scared that I was gonna have like performance anxiety, because tennis, I had a lot of performance anxiety, like it's double faulting, or like I can't hit my forehand today. But the stage, there was like a freedom to it. I felt like I was talking to my friends. And once I felt that, I was like,

oh my God, that's what I wanted when I was playing tennis, but I never had. Huh. Because tennis, there's a lot of nerves involved. For sure. You got your parents, you got your coaches, you got scholarships on the line, and stand up. I was like, no one even fucking knows I'm doing this.

Nobody cares. Nobody cares. And isn't that freeing when no one cares? Yeah. No, and also like, here's another sports lesson, I think, for standup. This is sports podcast. I know.

I'm gonna get made fun of for it. People will make fun of me in the YouTube comments, for sure. They make fun of me for talking about tennis too much, and I'm like, look. I'll get off in a second, but I will say this. I will say this. One of the great lessons I think I've ever learned

in sports is anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Oh! I think it's true of stand-up. I think you can take any audience, I think you can kill with any audience, you can follow someone, you can follow four people who bomb, you can get them. And you can also lose them. You can follow four people who kill and you can die. Yes, belief is everything. Like if you go on stage, you're in a good mood, you're feeling yourself. Another comic who's way better is for some reason

in their head about something. It affects the performance. And you can't win a match if you don't think you're gonna win it. So it's like going on stage for me, I also was like, wait, no one's gonna say she won or she lost. This is an expression of myself.

This is fun. So I kind of finally found the thing in life that I felt like I could work hard with and also not deal with as many like hard depression, like getting pissed off about the results. And once you were a little less result oriented with the standup is crazy, things started happening with me. Yeah. So your dad was your coach.

Yeah. Like Venus and Serena and many others. I was just like them except less talented. No, I mean, think about how many sports parents were their coaches. It's a very common thing. My thing with my dad, it was definitely difficult

because from an early age, I was like, wait, when I win, my dad loves me so much. Oh my gosh. Oh God. And I don't have a kid yet, but I get it. I totally get the first feeling, like your daughter wins something. He was like, I thought I was Rocky Balboa.

We were running around the parking lot, it was the greatest feeling in the world. Well it's so funny, I wrote a joke that I haven't done on stage, but it's basically like, my dad growing up would always say, it's not about winning, it's about trying. But he always seemed to enjoy it when I was winning, and he didn't seem to care when I was trying. Oh my god!

It's so true though! It's so true though. There's no getting around that you're, of course you're supposed to teach your kids that it's not about winning, but when they fucking win, it's actually kind of nice. Come on, come on, this is a sports podcast. Here we go. Let's go.

We're not some fucking losers, okay? No, I remember like, I'd like, we'd see dads in the park and their daughter's learning to play soccer and the dad would just be like, what the fuck was that? You can't help it, but it's because you care. No, I know, it's devastating. I will say about my dad is that he believed in me, like, I don't know why, he believed in me more than anything,

so it put a lot of pressure on me, but there were matches where I won purely because I was like, my dad knows I could win. He thought I should beat anyone, and that gave me this belief in myself. But it also made me feel so shitty when I lost because I'm like, I'm supposed to be the best. That's deep.

It's dark. You've got to go deep. I mean, you didn't hit that in your special that's out now. I feel like that's got to be the best. That's deep. It's dark. You've got to go deep. I mean, you didn't hit that in your special that's out now. I feel like that's gotta be special too. I'm so happy that I'm doing this part right now because everyone's like, you didn't do one joke about tennis. Yeah. And I was like, cause I haven't found the funny in it

quite yet. Of course. But like what you, like that bit you just did, I'm like, I know I have stories of my dad and the situations of the parents. Cause at first I was like, tennis is not have stories of my dad and the situations of the parents. Because at first I was like, tennis is not relatable. Because I was trying to do the low hanging fruit. No, it is relatable.

It's relatable in my opinion, because the reason why we're all obsessed with sports, and I'm not even someone who follows sports, but the reason we're obsessed with it is because it is a metaphor for everything. Yeah, it tests your character. It tests your character, you're super vulnerable. It's so embarrassing.

It's embarrassing. It's literally reality TV, like watching someone strike out. It is. Ew, that was so embarrassing for him. There's a famous line that someone said which is, watching sports is like watching the best movie that's ever been made. Because it's actually conflict in real time

and it's real as hell. Tension. You can't write a better story than like an average like Mets game last night. I'm like, that was craziness. Come on. But like, so with your dad, it's like, what's the thing about your relationship

with your dad? Because you made this jump to stand-up comedy. It's like, did he come along for the ride? Is he good with it? Is he resentful that he's not part of it? I think with my dad, people, the first thing people say, I think especially with female comics, and I'm not particularly dirty,

like yeah, I have a, you know, a queef joke here and there, but people will be like, whoa, like, his friends will be like, your daughter's kind of, she says some adult stuff. And he's always, he'll smile and be like, I just want her to be happy and also like, where the fuck do you think I got it from? Like my dad is one of the funniest people I've ever met.

He's actually like European mutt. He definitely is charming and funny and he basically is just like so, he can't even fathom what I'm doing because he was like so close to me during that other chase of a dream. Yeah. But I almost feel like he felt like,

oh, I was with her through this, now she can fly and do other things. It's like, he could not be better now. And sometimes I will be like, do you still, like, are you still, are you proud of me even though I didn't go pro? Like I'll still have those moments in my head where like, he's like, yeah, she got all this,

but like she didn't do what we wanted. And that's like my battle of being like, regardless I should be okay, because it's not my responsibility to make him happy, but knowing that he's, he always said he's most proud of me because of the adversity. He's like, all the things that have happened to you, like you just keep going.

And I was like, oh, I was looking at it purely result oriented, not, he's like, oh, whenever like you drop, you bounce back higher. And that's like how he sees stuff. Because like, it's a lot of, whenever you drop, you bounce back higher. And that's how he sees stuff. Because it's a lot of bumps in the road to do anything. The last 40 seconds of what you just said has to be in your next show. That conversation with your dad.

Because first of all, who asks their parent point blank if they're proud of them? I have not. We good? My dad was so funny like when I was younger, he would have me like play tennis against his friends. Like he'd be like, oh you play tennis? You want to play my daughter? Play my daughter. That's crazy.

Or like some kids like fast and he'll be like, raise my daughter. Like he just was like so proud of me. This isn't a comedy special, this is a movie. This is a movie. I was just like, he was so proud of me, but like obviously it fucked me up because I was just this like, I had to always perform for Daddy's Love, but he also was hilarious with boys too because I remember like once I like lost a match to, I'd train with a lot of guys and he pulled me aside and he was like, did you lose that match on purpose

because you liked him? And I was like, no. And he goes, if you ever let a boy distract you. If you ever let a boy distract you. So in my head, I always was like, men, bad, distracting. Winning, good. And that was like my mentality, which kind of was feminist of him.

Well, that's why you ended up with Des Bishop because he's a loser. He's Des Bishop, because he's a loser. He's a man, but he's a loser. Well, Des Bishop, he's my dad. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! He's my dad. I'm friends with your husband, Des Bishop. That's why I feel comfortable making a joke about it.

But in your specialty, you call him old, and I look it up, I'm like, he's 48. I'm like, I'm 46, am I old? Like, I thought I was middle-aged. He's older than you. I know, but two years. You know, he's not old, but I... But also, have you considered that when you're 65,

he'll be 80? Then, I'm just putting him in a home. I love that you immediately have an answer for it. I love that you didn't flinch before saying you're putting him in a home. And it'll be a nice home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it. It'll be a nice home, have a answer for it. I love that you didn't flinch before saying you're putting it in a home. And it'll be a nice home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be a nice home.

I get it. You'll have a cute little nurse. No, you work hard. You work hard. I will spoil that man. Yeah. Jesus. But I do think when you're in your 30s and you are a girl who's, you know, you start

becoming financially independent, you know what you want, like dating a guy in his 40s is nice. And I think as long as there's not like a weird power dynamic, I think it's great. All right, there you have it. You should get yourself a zaddy. Oh my God. I've never heard that term.

She's shaking her head. What's a zaddy? A zaddy. Zaddy? You're a zaddy. What is it? A zaddy is like, you know, like an older guy who like has confidence, like stuff going on. You want me to get that?

No, you're a zaddy already. Okay. Then what was your advice to me regarding being a zaddy? Well, you can get your own zaddy if you want. Someone older than me? Yeah. Would it be a man or a woman? I don't judge, like whatever you wanna do. Well I'm a heterosexual married man,

what would that be? What would that be for me? What would a zaddy be for me? I don't know the term. You know how Taylor Swift has like a girl crew? Yes. I think you should have a zaddy crew. I think you should get a bunch of zaddy, you des.

You think it's women or men? It's men? Men? Just older men. It's like a crew. Yeah, like you roll into the cellar. Like older dads. Even though you say I'm old, but I'm middle-aged. I'm 46 years old.

I'm so definitively middle-aged. No, you're definitely middle-aged. But a zaddy, because you have a child. Okay. Yeah. What's the Z in zaddy? The you have a child. Okay. Yeah. What's the Z in zaddy? The Z is the je ne sais quoi. Oh Jesus.

The Z is the je ne sais quoi? It's your, you know, your personality, and your confidence. I'm a daddy, but je ne sais quoi? Yes. Okay, I'll accept it. I don't know if it's an insult or a compliment. 100% a compliment.

Okay, I'll take it at your word. You can Google it afterward. I'll take it at your word. But let's get back to your dad, because he was like, don't get caught up in having a crush on your opponent. Definitely around 14 years old, when people start getting hormones, some girls who were great at tennis would just drop off,

because they discover partying. So part of it was like, the more you stay focused, the more you numb your emotions, be like, I'm not nervous. So part of it was like, the more you stay focused, the more you like numb your emotions, be like, I'm not nervous, I'm not scared, I'm focused, I don't want to go to parties, I don't like boys, I like this, that's what makes you a champion. And I sacrificed all that. So then at 21, like I played one for Wisconsin,

but I wasn't happy, I didn't enjoy it anymore. You were number one at Wisconsin? Yeah. Unbelievable. It was what I wanted to do, but then you're just like still not happy. And then what kept you from going pro? I don't enjoy it anymore. You were number one at Wisconsin? Yeah. Unbelievable. It was what I wanted to do, but then you're just like still not happy. And then what kept you from going pro? I did get hit by a car,

but that was kind of just an excuse. Okay. So you had an injury, but it wasn't a one for one. Yeah, I took it as a sign. It's also very hard to go pro financially. Oh, come on. You have to pay. Trust me, I want to spread the coin.

Yeah, you watch it. It's fucking crazy. Yeah, it's like trying to be, just to put in perspective for listeners, it's trying to get by being a minor league baseball player. It's impossible. It's like if you're on the Knicks, except you only get paid when you win,

you have to pay for all your travel and your coaches and your equipment. Forget about it, it's impossible. It's impossible. So I basically had that moment, I remember sitting down telling my mom and dad, I'm gonna, I think I wanna see what else, I think there's other things, other facets to me

that I wanna discover. And I think by that time they were kind of like, we're really proud of you, you're good. You asked them? Are you, how proud, from one to 10. You know when you're in the doctors, how much pain are you in? One to 10, how proud are you right now in this moment?

And I just they were tired to they saw that it wasn't making me I was getting panic attacks I was like very I just so it became like a drug where when you win you felt nothing But when you lost it was the worst when I won I was like thank God I fuck him on because if I lost would have been so Write that down, put it in the show. Yeah. That's powerful. It was a drug. Because by the way, you're saying, is this relatable? I've never played professional tennis or serious tennis.

I relate to that 100%. That whole thing you're saying right now of like, when essentially, when the bad thing happens, you feel bad, when the good thing happens, you feel nothing. You're like, thank God, you feel bad. talking about don't quit. But there's like a funny meme going around, this little girl trying to kick a soccer ball

and she can't kick it, it was really bad. And then she does like a back flip to go to the back of the line. And they were like, you're not bad, you're just doing the wrong thing. And I, okay, sports videos, that's the one thing that gets me choked up online. Like a girl coming back from tripping in a track race,

like I'll start crying. It like tugs in my heartstrings, but it's true. And it's crazy because after college, I go back, I was doing some sports broadcasting, like I learned how to edit videos. And that was, I think, a huge help in my comedy that I could edit my own stuff. But I remember telling my mom,

I want to go on the subway and interview people. No shit. I swear to God, I told to go on the subway and interview people. No shit. I swear to God. I told her that and then I was like, nah, that's a crazy idea. Fast forward 10 years later, I start interviewing comics at the stand. Yeah. And that's what blows up. You're on the street videos are great. What's the strangest thing you ever witnessed with those videos?

I'm obsessed with those videos. It stemmed from, I do think, because I'm very close to my dad and my brother, and I grew up training with just mostly men, and I'm kind of obsessed with understanding the male brain, while also them understanding the girl brain, and I feel like for some reason, even when I was doing sports interviews,

the guys felt comfortable with me, and I felt, I told the comics, because I originally didn't want to interview comics. I wanted normal people, but then they would be like, oh, I was drunk or don't put me in the video. I'm like, I want people who want to be filmed. I told the comics, I'm like, don't try and make me laugh. Be honest.

And I would ask guys honest questions. When a girl farts, how do you really feel? And then we'd like, or like, when a girl farts, like how do you really feel? And then we'd like, or like, what's your favorite, you know, nail color on a girl, or how does she pee with a tampon, like that type of stuff. Cause I, it wasn't an attack, it was let's understand this together.

One of my favorite questions is asking the guys, what do men talk about when girls aren't around? Cause it's a very innocent, funny concept. And hearing the guys, they're like, we talk about pussy. And then they're like, we actually don't talk about pussy as much as you think. And then they're like, sports. Cause we joke that men, they know each other for 10 years. They don't know like one real feeling from like, yeah, don't even know his last name.

His name is not Pookie. Like what's his last name. His name's not Pookie, like what's his real name? So kind of instead of this like man versus woman thing, kind of like understanding and finding the humor in the fact that we are misunderstanding each other sometimes. Yeah, I think the one I've noticed recently with people is you know people for a long time

and then you live past in a friendship the statute of limitations of asking shit that's super basic. So you'll know someone for 15 years. Do you have a kid? Yeah, do you have a kid? What city were you born in? Yeah, that shit's crazy. I mean, it's kind of-

There is a statute of limitation. No, it's kind of crazy, because my friend Susan, who I'm sure she'll hear this, but like, we're close from college, we're like, been friends for like 25 years, we met freshman year in college, and I knew that her family was from Iran. I didn't know she was born in Iran until last week.

We've known each other 25 years. She came to my show in Richmond, we're talking. And I was like, but your parents are from Richmond. She's like, right, but I know I was, I was like, my God. You know, it's embarrassing. I also like to talk about, because I just had like, I had a bachelorette party

a year ago, and I was thinking about like bachelor parties and how with girls, I joke in my special how it's like a cult, but it's so like, we can't trust Jessica, like she was supposed to wear purple and she wore blue. Wow, that's great. Like literally we can't, and then men will invite just like dudes who've done horror, I'm like, didn't he like cheat on your sister?

And they're like, whoa, after a couple beers, like he's a good guy, he's fun. Like men, once, they also like, I'll see shows, like two men will be like, like high-fiving, and I'm like, oh, how do you guys know each other? They're like, we just sat next to each other. Like two men will become friends, so like the friendship, it's so different.

Where girls, it's like, we need to know like your health background, every relationship you've ever been in, like your signs, like, it's a lot more complicated, the girls' relationship sometimes, to the male relationship. That's interesting, but don't you think that that's female too? It's a lot more complicated, the girls' relationship sometimes, to the male relationship. That's interesting, but don't you think that that's female too?

Like, I feel like, don't you think two women could sit down next to each other and just become best friends-ish? Well, there's this beautiful simplicity of two men just being like, you're a man, I'm a man. Yeah. Let's form an alliance. And women don't have that?

No. That's interesting. But like, yeah, it's just, and that's what I'm kind of obsessed with. And I love seeing that because I have this feeling that men and women, men and women are different, but also I feel like they're similar too, or at least can understand each other more. Right. So I've been playing with that a lot with my comedy because a lot of girls go to the

shows with their boyfriends. So then the boyfriends, it's like a female locker room, where I feel like they hear things that they don't normally hear. And then they're like learning some stuff. And I'm like, I feel like we're all learning things. Do people ever push back and go, that's not true? If you talk about gender, like a gender generality. I feel like the guys will get annoyed.

I'll joke on the fact that I'll make fun of girls that we will accuse guys of gaslighting. So I kind of like lean on certain tropes. Wait, can you say that again? So like I'll joke that like men fall asleep really quickly because they're so tired from gaslighting all day. Oh yeah, that's a great joke. So obviously like it's a joke because I don't really think all men are gaslighting.

Right. But then I'll joke and be like, this man doesn't know what gaslighting is. So I kind of play on the concepts of it. Right. And it's hard to mass generalize it all, but gaslighting is a term I think that people have used from therapy and they'll throw it around too much. So I'm kind of leaning in to the fact that we can just, he's fucking gaslighting me.

So the men are laughing cause they're like, yeah, that's so my girlfriend. And the girls are laughing cause they're like, yeah. That's my boyfriend. So they both kind of find a, I try to find a way to like make fun of the women while making fun of the men. But then I also liked,

I have a joke in my special bringing up Des, where I joke about a moment he was emotional. Oh my gosh. And he thought he was having a heart attack. Oh, interesting. At the end. And I like to say that when guys feel any emotion besides anger, they're like,

can you call 911? Cause I'm really uncomfortable. That's really funny. And I think a lot of men, and Des and I still are fighting over if it was a panic attack or a stomach ache. I was going to ask about that. I was going to ask what is his take.

He says it was a stomach ache. It's so funny. Because you have two comedians arguing over a very dramatic story where essentially he says call 911 while you're having dinner. And does he do it as a bit too? Yep, it's a completely different bit. So it's going to be in your special and his special.

People say, do you guys ever decide who gets the story? I go, the stories are completely different all the time. Was there any of the celebrity interviews you couldn't use because I saw Charlie XCX and Hailey Bieber and all these people, Jennifer Lawrence. Do you think it didn't make it? Oh, all the time. All the time.

Is it because it was controversial at the time? Well, when you're with these bigger celebrities, they have to approve of questions. Oh. So that is the hard thing with these bigger interviews, where the comics, we can do everything. Right. So I have to get them approved,

and sometimes you can't do a whole lot, so then it's about me riffing off of it to try to get that goal. Right, so with Jennifer Lawrence, you have to send questions to Jennifer Lawrence's publicist. His people, yeah. And so she looks at the thing. So then I riff, and then I edit it, and I send it, and I pray that they keep in the riffs,

and Jennifer Lawrence's interview they did. Well, that's nice. But I've had, I've definitely had some rogue moments, like the Jonas Brothers, I had to ask about breakfast, because they had a waffle song coming out, and I was like, how do we make this funny? So I had to ask them, do you like sweet or savory for breakfast?

And Joe said like savory and then Nick said savory. And I just on a whim was like, cause you have to like then I give you like six minutes. So you just have to go when you think you have a moment. So I was like, what you don't think it's manly if you have a sweet breakfast. And he goes, I have diabetes. The whole room got silent.

There was like 20 people who worked for them. And in that moment I was like, we'm on diabetes. The whole room got silent. There was like 20 people who worked for them. And in that moment I was like, we have to get over this. So we start dying laughing. They start laughing. We get through it, but we ended up, it gets kept in the interview. Oh good. And it ended up being like a good moment.

Oh my gosh. But it's like, you kind of have to test, like you kind of have to push the limit to see if you could get a moment. Otherwise it'll just be like a normal interview. Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. That's like, that's a stressful side of the job.

I had a moment with Cat Williams recently. Did you really? I did this golf charity, cause I like to play golf too. And they threw me in just to do interviews. And they were like, we don't know who might stop, but just stand there, see who wants to talk to you Yeah

They were like cat Williams is coming cat Williams is coming and cat Williams like well, this is very bad cat Williams impression What's going on over here? What you talking about he comes in and I ask him something about like what's a rule in golf that you don't like And he goes on this whole long spiel about the concept of rules. And it's going on for a long time. And then I was like, I have to go for it. And I go, why do I feel like this sounds like you don't know any rules to golf?

That's funny. Which was kind of ballsy, because I just met Kev Williams. And I respect him so much. And he just goes, well, it takes a genius to know a genius. And we had that pop. And it was a beautiful moment. But it that pop and it was like a beautiful moment, but it's funny, it's like sports. Do you take the risk and possibly lose?

Or do you play it safe and not have a chance to win? That's great. It's crazy. That's really nice. But yeah, I've definitely swung and missed at a lot of jokes, but sometimes they hit. I know, I know, trust me. The, this is a slow round.

What are people's favorite and least favorite things about you? Probably their favorite is that I am silly and outgoing and like I'll always be in a good mood. Like you never see me in a bad mood. Yeah. I think people like that. What they don't like is like

that I don't like to hang out with people. Oh, that's interesting. So are you introverted? I'm like a real homebody. That's interesting. So it's like when I'm out, I feel like I'm life of the party, everyone's having fun,

but it takes a lot for me to go out because I prefer to be inside with my cat. I relate to that. And my man, yeah. It's really interesting. Do you describe it as introverted? It's funny because you cannot call my ass introverted, but like I don't party, I don't drink really.

I'm not sober. I just don't, I'm not into it. And I prefer to eat, like to eat. I don't like talking, I don't like big groups. I don't like concerts. I don't like roller coasters. I don't like concerts. I don't like rollercoasters. I don't need extra adrenaline. I have enough anxiety just existing in my own self.

I don't need, you know, people are like, I just love being around people. I'm not that person. I love one-on-one stuff, but otherwise I'm kind of confused. Great answer. Do you have a memory from your childhood that makes you cringe?

Oh my God, so many. As a kid, I was a ball hog. Oh. Basketball? Basketball and you know it's possible baseball as a ball hog. I would pitch and then I would run and field the ball. And then I would run to first base cause I w I wasn't confident

that other people could do it. Which honestly was valid. It was a very low performing team. You would pitch. I'd play all the bases and the coach loved it. The other parents probably not so much. They were like, you would pitch, the batter would hit, you would field. A ground ball, I would field it, and then sprint,

because I was very fast, and dive. My dad loved it, every other parent was definitely like, let's kick her off the team. But we were winning. That is, I have to say, I have no judgment for these slow run questions, that's annoying. No, I also like, when I played basketball, I's annoying. That's genuinely annoying. When I played basketball, I would score all the points.

Wow. Because all I wanted was my dad to love me. The other parents were probably like, can you let another kid have the ball? Wow. But I had a lot of pressure on me. Wow. So now I do stand up, so I don't have to pass the ball ever.

Jesus Christ. These are, I mean, that's a great answer too. Is that too honest? No, it's great. There is no too honest in this round. I just feel like your second special is just gonna whore out of you. Oh my God, thank you,

because I've been nervous about it. I just think all this stuff is great. Like if you can admit all this stuff about yourself on stage and talk about your relationship with your dad as your coach, I just think it's like, it's just gold. Do you remember a time in your childhood where you did something wrong and you got away with it?

Or you were lying and got away with it? I remember my brother and I were like left at home. For one of the first times, I remember we were like a little young and they were like, we're going out for like an hour. Eat your dinner, we'll be back, don't do anything stupid. And we're eating spaghetti and meatballs as we do. My brother said something annoying, he's my younger brother.

So obviously I took the meatball and I threw it at him. And next thing you know, we had a full food fight and they came home and there was just meatballs everywhere. But it was one of those moments where my brother and I, we looked at the white wall and we had those like, okay, we have to stop this fight between us and realize it's us versus mom now. We have 20 minutes to try to clean this wall.

So we were like trying, but my mom, like, she could smell like anything, if anything was off by like an inch, she'd be like, what'd you guys do? Oh, wow. Is that what she was like? Like she was meticulous? She was very meticulous. We threw a party once, like we weren't even bad kids.

We threw a party once. Like, we weren't even bad kids. We threw a party once. And we had moved the rug to play beer pong. Yeah. And she walked in and she was like, were you guys playing beer pong? It was great. That's impressive. She also, she was a middle school principal. Yeah, yeah.

Of a school in Brooklyn. Yeah. So, nothing went past that bitch. Let's talk about new material. Do you have new jokes you're working on? Like half ideas, anecdotes? I'm prepared. Okay, great. So this is my first hour I've ever done.

Yeah, that's on Netflix now. It's on Netflix now and I probably only have 15 more minutes of material, period. Wow, okay. Which is pretty upsetting. And Des literally goes, I've forgotten more jokes than you have. That is so funny.

So I'm in the. But I'm gonna say something, I'm gonna make a bold proclamation. Two things that you've said in this interview that straight up could be material. One is literally the stories about interviewing people, you talking about what you said, what they said, et cetera, even the Kat Williams thing is like, that is material.

The other thing is, because you can't assume everybody's seen every video. You know what I mean? No, for sure they haven't. It's also my experience of it. Yes, and then all the stuff you were saying about your dad being your tennis control and stuff, it's hilarious and it's interesting.

I just think people are gonna be, I think people are gonna be way more interested in that than you realize. I do think with this special, I did all the things that I think are the funniest, but I definitely did not delve into like uniquely anything about myself too specifically. And people wanna know that.

They do, they do. I think when you first start comedy, you're like, these people don't give a shit. Like, let's make the jokes that they wanna hear. But I actually, this has been so helpful cause the tennis stuff, I feel like we've broken into a little bit and even just seeing your reaction to it.

I wrote, brbiglia bits. Brbiglia bits. That's what I wrote. Okay, this is really stupid. I have really stupid ideas. That's fine I wrote. Okay, this is really stupid. I have really stupid ideas. That's fine, we accept. Okay, first I just wrote, servers that memorize the orders. Don't be a hero, don't play God.

That's funny. Don't play God, I know. It's not personal at all. It's not what we're going for, but that was my thought. It stresses me out when they do that. Only things could go bad. I'm not that impressed anyway. I'm hungry also.

Have you, I mean my question in terms of like pulling it out is like have you ever taken the step of telling the person that they should write it down? I think you'll repeat it like four times for them, like, and with the cheese, and with the cheese, and like, we got it, and like, the cheese part, did you get the cheese part? Because you know how people get so weirdly emotional

with their food? Yeah. Like, why is it like if they get your order wrong, a part of you dies, and I would never tell them anything, but like, you're like, I've had a long day, and all I wanted was cheddar cheese, not Swiss cheese. Yeah.

No, I totally relate to that. And what it takes for you to get the assertiveness to be like, hey, I ordered Swiss cheese. And is it worth it? No, I think that's great. I would just localize it just into one story. You know what I mean? I think generally, when I have an observation

about something, it's like just take all the details of all the most absurd times and put it into a single story. And this bit would be so perfect as a tag just in a story of me at a restaurant. Totally. So right, so right. I talked about breakups,

how you know when you start Googling stuff, like if you're like, is he a narcissist? Or like, should I break up? Signs you should break up. Or when you start making lists, like a you're like, is he a narcissist? Or like, should I break up? Signs you should break up. Or when you start making lists, like a pros and cons list. Just like things you do, it's like when you're in it, you don't see it, but afterwards you look at your Google history and you're like, what more of a sign

did you need? You were Googling like, is this person bad for me? I feel like we've all done it though. That's really funny. I would say this, look, if I'm being completely honest, I would go into thinking about a specific time you did that for an ex. And just be like, because a lot of people are like,

I don't want to talk about this person because I don't want them to see blah, blah, blah. First of all, they'll never see it. Give them a different name. Give them a different haircut, a few different attributes. Let's say he was a valet at a restaurant that you met. You know what I mean? Make up things that don't matter

and then say the stuff that does matter. You know what I mean? The emotional truth, which is actually what's interesting. This is so helpful for starting new bits, because I definitely have a little writer's block where I worked so hard in this hour for so many years, that then you're like, how do I even put a candle to it? But then I realize I'm such a better comic now. But the whole concept of starting a bit, which is why this podcast is so fun for me,

the idea of working it out, there's so many different ways that you hit that goal. Completely. And that's why I love, like there's no rules to how you get there, but sometimes you forget how the hell you ever got there. Well, tell me this, and we'll cut out whatever you want if you're uncomfortable with it.

Can you tell me about a boyfriend where you're like, this dude's a narcissist, but I'm not sure. Can you tell me, don't say his name, don't say his name. I'll give you a social security number. No, no, no, but don't say his name, but also tell me a couple things about it. I've definitely been with someone who everyone was super proud that I was with.

Oh my gosh. And everyone liked him. So then I thought I was sabotaging it because I felt that there was something wrong with him. But I thought, I was gaslighting myself. Yes. And I was like, you, like he's perfect. I felt like I was signing a deal

with the devil staying with him. Interesting. But no one knew. Okay, so what were the red flags? Red flags were like, I was only allowed to hang out with him on Sundays. Get the fuck out of there. get the fuck out of there. Get the fuck out of there. Get out of there.

If you're listening to this podcast and your boyfriend only lets you hang out on Sundays, get out of there. I hung out with him for a weekend once and we visited somewhere and he came back and he was like, wow, I thought I was gonna get sick of you, but I didn't. Oh, that's awful.

I mean, get out of there. But in your young mind, you're like, You gotta write it. Oh no, I think I was gonna get sick of you, but I didn't. Oh, that's awful. I mean, get out of there. But in your young mind, you're like, Oh no, I think he likes me. Write it all down. Write all this down. I mean, this is great. This is so great. Okay, third red flag.

Any third red flag? This is just all gold. I only wanna hang out with you on Sunday, come on. He, like, after, he wouldn't laugh at my jokes. And that's ultimately why I put the foot down. Because I'm like, I don't need to see you, I don't need to spend that much time with you, but if I don't feel funny around you,

like, where is the joy in life? Beautiful. And that, I mean, that's a beautiful way to potentially have it be red flag one, very funny, red flag two, very funny, red flag three, emotional. And I think your audience can handle that. Like, your audience knows you not just as a comedian, but they know you from your podcasts,

they know you from your videos. So in certain way, they know you from your podcasts, they know you from your videos. So in certain way, they know you even better than a typical like standup comedian knows their audience or the audience knows the standup comedian. I feel like if you did go emotional like that, like I think they'll roll with that. I would love to. I also thought of more red flags.

What? Well, I dated a football player in college and he wanted me to go to Bible study with him. Oh no. And I've been working on this and my joke was like, he has CTE, so like, how does he read? I don't know how he does Bible study. Raising awareness for CTE.

Yeah, yeah, of course. And he also, yeah, he like would misspell words when he was texting me. Like he spelled the word isn't I-S-I-N-T. And I was like, we have to stand up for ourselves. Like for women in this moment, I was like, you spelled it wrong. And he was like, I'm tired from practice.

I'm like, you don't add a letter when you're tired. And I just was like, we, but he was so good looking. You don't add a letter when you're tired. I've gone in a lot of situations where I've been in relationships where like, on paper, like he's the football player, he's 6'7", he's handsome, but when you're with him,

he doesn't believe that your friend is a lesbian because he thinks that she chose to be gay. Like crazy shit. And we're just like not, but then like... That didn't last more than a week, did it? It lasted way longer than it should have because he was six, seven, Mike. Six, seven, I mean who wants that?

He could pick me up like a baby. No, I get it, I get it. That's good. I mean, I like that, because I like the give and take of that, of like saying the crazy thing, you know, doesn't believe my friend's a lesbian, but whatever. And then, I was there being, you know.

Also, he had a great job on. He could throw, yeah, he could throw me over his shoulder and we could go to the supermarket. I felt like a light little dainty flower around him. But that is when you're younger, you're trying to figure out what is the give and takes. Because I do joke, like Disney movies are like, be with the guy who's the prince

Yeah, then you're with the prince and you're like, I I don't know if this is how you're supposed to feel Yeah, but then you also have the thing about Shrek thinking Shrek is pretty good. Shrek is ugly hot Shrek is ugly hot, but then you didn't marry Shrek Not Shrek like your husband like when you did that bit, I was like, okay, there's actually one little flaw in logic here, which is she didn't marry a Shrek at all. I was being nice about Shrek, and I could acknowledge that he's ugly hot, not for me.

Right. Not for me. But I know I did end up being with an aesthetically pleasing looking man, but I do think- He is a handsome man. Cause he's, I do have to say cause he's older, he just is a little more wise than previous guys I've dated.

And he happens to be good looking, but I appreciate his mind, which was like a new thing for me. Because it was bad enough. Yeah, minds are in these days. Do you think you could have a conversation with someone? Yeah, yeah are in these days. Do you know you could have a conversation with someone? Yeah, yeah. Wow. No, I mean, I feel like if you go down the road

of just naming off all these red flags, that is gonna be your goal. I still, I've been working on a bit, but I haven't done it full. Like I ended up hooking up with the mascot at Wisconsin. Oh, there you go. So there's, how have I not done like a 10 minute bit about that?

That is so funny. I know. Did you ever hook up like in the stands or anything? Like under the stands? No, but he like, he asked if he could wear his Oh dear. Thing once. Is that too much for this pod?

Welcome to Call Their Daddy. This interview's over. This interview's over. He asked if he could wear the thing. No way did he ask if he could wear the thing. I was like, no, I'm not your silly story for your bros. Are you serious? He asked you to wear the... I mean, I feel like every guy would ask that. No! No! You're broken.

You understand that you're broken? This is not a him thing. Okay, you just broken. You understand that you're broken? This is not a him thing. Okay, you just gaslit me. It's not my fault that he asked me. Okay, but that's gold. I mean, literally, you gotta just listen back to this podcast and write down all these bits.

These are all great bits. Okay. The mascot who asked us about keeping the thing on. I love how he had to go, bluh, bluh. No, but my thing is after the football guy, I was like, I want a guy who's funny and doesn't take himself so seriously, but the mascots take themselves very seriously. Yeah, they think they're very important.

They think they're like Spider-Man, like they don't tell people that they're the mascot. It's like a whole culture. I feel like if you did like a three minute ramp up of like making fun of your boyfriend asking to fuck you with the head on or whatever, I think the best punchline is, so I'm fucking him with the head on. You know what I mean?

He's an animal in the bedroom. Like I think it's such a. I go, so he asked me that. And then the head was like hitting the side of me. Exactly. Regardless if it's true, I feel like you got to just like kind of have that be your clothes. I have to have fun with it. Yeah, it's like, I don't know.

I just feel like that's where it has to go somehow. It's also hard because now that you're married, you're like, okay, I got to dig, where was the fun stuff? Because if you're single with standup, you're like, let's go out tonight and see what could happen. No, totally. No, I think, I honestly would just write down every ridiculous person you dated, every narcissist, every mascot, every everybody.

And honestly, go on stage with bullet points of like those people and just riff on it, record it and just see what happens because you're just like a funny, funny person who's had a funny, interesting life. And I just think you're going to have an amazing bunch of specials. That's my gut.

I appreciate that so much. I feel like I just did a master class by Mike Rubiglia in writing my next hour. And I'm like excited to get back on stage. We do one last thing to close, which is working out for a cause. So if you have a nonprofit that you like to support, we contribute and then we link to them in the show notes.

I actually, this, I want to do a quick shout out. Let's do Southampton Animal Shelter. Oh, great. We have, we're actually fostering a small pit bull named Abby, who's amazing. And she's looking for a home. That's great. So maybe we put Abby in the notes.

And it's like kitten season, so there's always kittens running around. I think kittens bring joy. I love kittens. I love, do you have cats? Precious and Mr. Mustache, you don't know these kittens running around. I think kittens bring joy. I love kittens. Do you have cats? Precious and Mr. Mustache. You don't know him? You know, I'm a big cat person. Butter? Okay, we'll talk about this next time. Butter? Are you kidding me? Of course. I love butter.

A food name for a cat? So anyway, I'm obsessed with cats, I'm obsessed with animals. If you're having a lonely summer, adopt an animal. I took my daughter to camp today and it was dog park. And I'm like, kills me I can't get a dog because of the cats. I took my daughter to camp today and it was dog park. And I'm like, kills me I can't get a dog because of the cats. You don't know if the cats are gonna get along with the dogs. It's a whole thing.

It's a whole deal. It's a whole thing. And yeah, Des is a dog guy, I'm a cat person. So our lives revolve around Butter. You both? Well, Abby, we keep her away from Butter. Right. And sometimes his brother takes care of Abby,

but Abby's like a great dog. Maybe someday when I get old, like your husband, I'll get a dog. Two years from now. All right, that's all. That's the show. Working it out, cause it's not done. We're working it out. Cause there's no.

That's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Hannah on Instagram at hannahburner and on TikTok at hannahburner. Find her live dates at hannahburner.com. Watch her special We Ride a Dawn on Netflix. And the full video of this is on YouTube. Check out perbiggs.com to sign up for the mailing list and to be the first to know about my upcoming shows.

Our producers who are working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Burbiglia, Mabel Lewis, Associate Producer Gary Simons. Sound Mix by Shub Saren. Supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Anjanov and Bleacher's Further Music. I'm going to see them at the Garden in October. Special thanks as always to my wife,

the poet J. Hope Stein. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Special thanks as always to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio for Maid of Pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts, why not? It really helps. Then you can go back and listen to all the catalog.

We have 140-something episodes of this show that we have put so much love and effort and time and care into. You could listen to Jimmy Fallon or Rami Youssef or Seth Meyers or Nikki Glaser. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts. Which one is your favorite? If you like the show, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your local mascots. Let's say your local mascot wants to hang out but won't get out of character. I don't know, it's hypothetical.

And you could say, hey, I think you should take that animal head off or else you won't be able to hear this podcast that I would like to listen to with you called Mike Pervigli's Working It Out. He talks to comedians and other creative folks about the creative process. He really gets in the weeds. And even sometimes he talks about how it relates to sports. And then your mascot friend might finally take that stupid head off.

Thanks everybody, we're working it out. See you next time.