Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 2. John Mulaney: Shooting Hoops with the Michael Jordan of Comedy

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

Mike discusses the Chicago Bulls with the Michael Jordan of stand-up comedy, John Mulaney.Please consider contributing to the following organizations:NAACP Legal Defense FundParole Preparation ProjectInnocence Project

We went into the American Airlines lounge and the Admirals Club. Thank you. Applause, applause. We walk in and we basically were, it was like, it was literally this. It was like, I almost said, could this day get any weirder? And then I swear on a stack of Bibles, we walked into the lounge and standing in the entranceway was Gary Busey. And he was pumping hand sanitizer into his hands,

rubbing it together, and putting it on his face. Hey, everybody. It's Mike. We're back. That was the voice of the great John Mulaney, who hosted Saturday Night Live this past weekend for the fifth time. So we decided we were going to re-air our episode of Working It Out with John, which was our second episode ever of the show. John and I have been friends for a long time, probably 20 years. And so we just have a blast.

I mean, look, you know John from his work as a writer for Saturday Night Live. He wrote Stefan. He's hosted SNL. He did the Sack Lunch Bunch. He did Kid Gorgeous. He's an Emmy Award winner. He did Oh, Hello with my other friend Nick Kroll.

Just a fantastic comedy brain. He's built for the working it out format. He's born to work it out. And so I'm so excited that we're playing that for you today. A couple quick things about my tour. I'm going to be in Charlotte for three shows. I'm going to be in Chicago at the Steppenwolf Theater in April, May for five weeks. I'm going to be in Washington, D.C., which is where John and I actually both started doing stand-up comedy.

And I'm going to be in Los Angeles at the Taper Theater with The Old Man and the Pool. It's pretty much sort of the world premiere of The Old Man and the Pool with the set and the lighting design and everything. And I'm going to be there for five weeks in Los Angeles. If you're enjoying the show, do a nice little What's My Favorite episode on Apple Podcasts. Give us some stars.

We're loving doing it. We're glad you're enjoying it. And this is my conversation with the great John Mulaney. So I'd be remiss if I didn't start out by just saying something about The Last Dance, which we were texting about the other day. I don't think necessarily people who are fans of your and my comedy would take us for basketball fans. I could see that. However, you grew up in the 1990s in Chicago,

and I grew up in the 1990s in Chicago, and I grew up in the 1980s in Boston. Yeah. And they're like the two of the basketball dynasties in history. And we had this thing in common the other day where we were texting, where you were saying basically your whole childhood was filled with all these championships. Yes. And it created an expectation for the rest of your life of just championships. I had the same thing with Larry Bird

and the Celtics in the 80s. It created a thing where I was like, wherever I am, the greatest thing ever is happening. Yeah. Part of, probably at its most insane, it was like,

it's kind of because of me and a little bit. Probably at its most insane, it was like, it's kind of because of me and a little bit. Yeah, of course. You're a contributor. Yeah, my presence is definitely helping. Total sense that when we went on a vacation to Puerto Rico, that people would be like, Chicago, Michael Jordan, best city. And I'd be like, yes, yes, that's right.

It was like being famous by proxy. Right, my friend Michael Jordan, of course, you know? And I'd be like, yes, yes, that's right. It was like being famous by proxy. Right. My friend, Michael Jordan, of course. Of course. And indeed, yes, we are the greatest. My whole thing was when I was a kid, I was fed a myth about Larry Bird, which is that he was not a natural athlete. That's great. So it's like, he's not a natural athlete. And I thought, I'm not a natural athlete. I'm going to be in the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile, the guy's 6'6", and has hands the size of baseball gloves.

Yeah, I think maybe it was like he wasn't immediately the best at basketball. I don't think the rap ever was, he's just not a natural. But I remember that about Jordan very well. Jordan didn't make the team his junior year of high school, was it? Or sophomore year?

I think it was his sophomore year. And he was cut. And then watching the documentary, I'm like, oh, all he needed to be the greatest athlete ever was to be cut once. And then he was like, I'm like, oh, all he needed to be the greatest athlete ever was to be cut once. And then he was like, this will never happen again. One of the things I noticed about the documentary is

it really benefits you to be small when you're younger, learn how to be a point guard, metaphorically or literally, and then have a huge growth spurt and then keep all your skills. Yes. Scotty was that, I think. Jordan was that. Were you at your tallest

in junior high, early high school? I was at my tallest in fourth grade. And then I sort of wrapped it up. We closed up shop, the growing team. That was one of my jokes recently I was writing, which is like, I didn't realize I was short until I bought a suit.

And then they're measuring me and they're like, you're 40 short. And I'm like, easy. You're going to need this hemmed. I'm like, easy. Like, you're going to need this hemmed. I'm like, easy. Yeah, and then what's great is it's 40 short and 40 regular. Oh, I know. That was one of the other jokes.

It's like, you're not like other people. You're not regular. Yeah, so I grew up on Larry, and you grew up on Jordan. And in some ways, you don't have to say this. I can say this about you, because you're you, and we're friends. But you are a bit of a Michael Jordan of comedy, in the sense that you have, like, the championships would be, like, great specials, like classic comedy specials.

Like, when you're watching the intimate glimpse of Jordan, do you relate to him? I would have cut you off sooner, but I was like, I'm too interested in the full question. I am absolutely not like Michael Jordan in terms of excellence. No, there's something like,

there's a dedication to playing basketball that actually bummed me out. I was like, I do my passion for a living, and I don't think I was dedicated to it as he was to the game of basketball. Did I feel like him watching it? No, except for in a few petty ways. I have occasionally fueled myself by revenge. Sure, me too. I remember I was an intern at UCB and later a great headlining comedian was there and I was an intern. I was mopping the bathroom floor and this person didn't say hi to me.

And that was all I needed. As Jordan would say, I took that personally. Oh, I just remember it very well. And it's not even so much that I'm trying to vanquish this person. It's more like, I just, I don't know. I was just like, this will never happen again. I will not mop at your feet while you do not say hi to me. I had that.

And of course I made the movie Don't Think Twice about jealousy as a theme. But one of my early petty things, and I've talked to him about it since, is I was so jealous of Demetri Martin when I moved to New York. Yes, you were. Because, well, I'll tell you why. Because when I moved to New York I would show up at shows and they'd be like literally every show

they'd be like you're really good you know who you should watch is Demetri Martin no I know I get it and I took it personally oh sure I always thought you know you guys are very different comedians but I think it was

so I wanted you to not have that feeling because it seemed like uncomfortable I don't think you enjoyed any I wouldn't call it negativity but whatever jealousy is it's not great no absolutely but you're such different comics. But it was the thing of like,

hey, Mike, do you know who's a genius, Dimitri? I know. That takes a toll. And I've had that with other people too. Yeah, of course. Like, oh, you're a comedian. Do you know who's a genius? And so it feels like sometimes those superlatives

make people like me feel like it's a level, it's a preternatural level to which I was not born. Well, it's funny because in some ways you lived the Scotty Pippen and the Michael Jordan. Well, because you were Scotty to Bill Hader at SNL, to his Jordan, and then... Well, but Bill gave me more credit than Jordan gave Scotty to Bill Hader at SNL, to his Jordan, and then... Well, but Bill gave you more credit than Jordan gave Scotty. Jordan's just like,

yeah, Pip should have gotten in that game. I'm like, dude, you were getting paid $100,000. You didn't even throw your weight around once at the holes you never said to Kraus, like, give Scotty more money. You absolutely didn't even think to. Bill always gave me a lot of credit, which I really appreciated

and which definitely helped me out because writing there all year, you kind of disappear into that cave. And it's not like, it doesn't hurt your career by any means. It helps. But he helped it even more, such that when I would go to LA for the one week a year, people would be like,

I know you've written this and this. And that was a very nice experience. Jordan would never do that for me. So we start the show with what I call the slow round. It's the equivalent of the speed round, but it's slow. It's slow. And it's just prompts. Like, for example,

like I have this really distinct smell, memory from childhood, which is the YMCA pool, which you've seen me talk about on stage for the new show. Do you have a smell memory from childhood? Yes, a liquid antibiotic for earaches that was bubblegum flavored and was so

good it was almost worth it to get a brain numbing earache I would you know I grew up in like Chicago but was in Wisconsin a lot and I'd go swimming in a lake and I'd get water I'd get fresh water in my ears and it would

settle and cause horrible earaches. And I would be so psyched when we go to the pediatrician because I knew what I was coming home with, a bottle of that sweet stuff. I have all these positive memories of the taste of medicine as a child. They really knew what they were doing by then. I feel like by the 80s, they were like,

we're going to pump this full of sugar and they're going to be delighted so the next one is it's called On a Loop which is do you have a memory from childhood that you can't get out of your head but it's not even really a story yeah I was walking by a window

when I was really young I was four and it was a basement apartment next to our backyard and I walked by it and there was a guy with a mustache standing there and he went, boom. And it shook me up. I mean, I don't know how old I was.

I think I just said I was four. That's a total guess. But I think about it constantly. Do you have any memory from your life that still makes you cringe? Like I have this with my first big breakup in my life. When any hint of it comes into my head, I literally cringe. Yeah, I have a couple. One was in high school.

We were driving past. I was with a girl. I'd just started dating and a bunch of other people. And we drove past a car. And for no reason, I flipped off the people in the next car. And then they like sped up, cut us off and they were like, why the fuck are you giving us?

It was like a bunch of dudes and I sat there staring forward like such a coward. I wasn't taking responsibility and I wasn't letting anyone else off the hook and I wasn't helping anyone. And I just remember thinking like, that was a very, very, I came off very badly there. The next one I have is, is there a group from your childhood or from your life who wouldn't let you in that sticks with you?

Well, I was really, I wasn't good at basketball. Why did I, I was about to say I was really bad. That is true. I was really bad. You know what's funny about this? You and I talked about, this makes me realize, remember, when we first went out on tour in 2005, 2006, whatever it was, the college tour, the Comedy Central Media Man on Campus tour. Media Man on Campus tour, yeah. We talked about this on the bus.

I think it really sticks in your craw, your basketball stories. Yes, I have a bit about it on my first album. I was a really bad athlete when I was a kid. I'm still a very bad athlete. My body is bad at sports. That's the problem. And I say my body's bad at sports because my brain is good at sports. That's the problem. And I say my body's bad at sports

because my brain is good at sports. Like, my brain understands how a human being could, like, dribble down a basketball court and then make a layup, right? But then it has to outsource the job to my weird and feminine limbs. And so when I play basketball,

it looks like I just bought my body and like I don't know how it works yet. But I played basketball. I played basketball for five years and I was a benchwarmer all five years. I was. I was a benchwarmer five years. I was. I was a bench warmer all five years and if you were never a bench warmer, I cannot

express to you the humiliation of every Saturday morning putting on a pair of breakaway pants and never having a reason to break them away. Then they're just pants. I so relate to this.

I would play basketball a lot as a kid. It would be alone on the hoop on my garage. Were you good? I thought I was phenomenal. Me too. Because I was playing alone.

And I thought, well, I'm going to be like Bird. This is the beginning. And then I started playing. I remember playing a pickup game at Dean Park with Matt Beaton's dad, who was a cop, and a bunch of our friends, Michael Cavanagh, Matt Beaton. And I remember shooting the ball and the ball didn't reach the height of the hoop

or the distance between me and the hoop. It looked like I was playing another sport altogether. And I'm not kidding. I started crying, literally tears coming down my face. And your teammates will not throw you the rock when you have tears streaming down your face. You really lose the confidence of the squad. Even like, I remember as we would be bringing the ball down

the court, like, that's the one thing about junior high kids. NBA players are more sensitive because you don't hear them go like, don't give it to him, don't give it to him. Junior high kids do call that out. I'd be like, I'm open. They'd be like, no, you missed shots. And I'd be like, easy.

Easy, my parents are here. Have you ever been punched in the face? I have never been punched in the face. I've probably been punched in the head by my brother a lot. But there's something different about brother punches. Yes. They're like knocks. They're like knocking on a head.

They're similar to whatever Wayne was doing on The Wonder Years. Whatever he was doing was exactly what my older brother did, which was sort of like headlock and then I'm kind of knocking on your head really hard. That was my brother too. He would

beat the crap out of me, but I would never be permanently injured. No. It was almost like he was a professional wrestler where he was really good at professionally beating me up in a way that doesn't leave a mark. He was a cop. Yes, exactly. He was a cop. Yes, exactly.

He was like a cop who knows how to interrogate people. Yeah, my brother would just dominate me immediately. And I look back and I'm like, I wonder, I think I just went, I think it was like slightly traumatizing physical attacks.

So I would kind of just go like limp, but be like, fuck you, fuck you. And then I started ripping his glasses off his face and stomping on them and breaking them. That's a good move. And I remember my mom saying like, you have to stop this. These are expensive.

And I said, if he doesn't want them broken, then he shouldn't come after me. That's strong. I remember it disturbing my mom. I just was like, I'm going to fight as petty as possible. And if you want to avoid it, then he should not do it. That's highly strategic. My brother out-punched me and he out-thought me.

So he would beat the crap out of me and I would go to my mom and be like, he just punched me! And then he would make a joke that would make me laugh. And so then I'd start laughing and I'm crying. And then he'd say to my mom, if he's so hurt, why is he laughing? Oh my God. That's demonic. It's demonic. I mean, and to this day, it's like an inside joke with Joey. It's like, why is he laughing? Did you ever get beat up by your brother

because your brother was feeling insecure about something? Oh gosh, probably, but I don't know. I mean, yeah, I mean, that older brother's... Well, I guess the real question would be, would you clock it at that age that that's what had happened? No, no. I mean, I think everything I did as a kid, I think that if it weren't for my brother introducing me,

because he was five years older than me, he still is. And everything he did, I did. He played soccer, I played soccer. He wrestled, I wrestled i wrestled he when he was a senior in high school started writing satire issues of the school newspaper so i started doing that too and if i didn't start writing comedy when i was in eighth or ninth grade there's no way i'd be a comedian huh was he annoyed that you were doing everything he was doing? he wasn't annoyed he sort of enjoyed having a buddy

doing it with him and so I'd throw in a tag or this or that it was primarily his work and then he went into ad copywriting I went into being a comedian and I always say this because I think you have to have a little bit

of a screw loose to become a comedian because there's a level of what I describe as like delusion to sort of jump off the cliff or jump in the pool of getting on stage. Because hands down, I don't know a single comedian for whom this isn't true, you will bomb a lot of times. And when you're bombing, you basically have to tell yourself, no, this is going pretty well. Oh, yeah. I will say, hearkening back to the basketball, to the court where I spent most of my days,

I did think I would get better. And I was like, yeah, I'm only 12. I'm only 11. I'm only 13. I didn't know that that was it. And that's kind of a bummer now to realize. But I was like, well, I'm at an early age. It wasn't like, I think the total lack of depth perception

and hand-eye coordination is a problem. It's not like you're just not tall enough. That doesn't seem to be what's happening. It seems like you can't dribble without dribbling on your foot and the ball rolling out of bounds. And then one thing we've talked about before is that you have to be delusional I think in a lot of people's cases

their first couple sets go well and I think all that pent up excitement and all those nerves and also I think there's something about the sheer delight of people laughing is evident on your face, and that makes the audience like you. Yeah, I think that's right. Or it allows something to happen.

Then you're fifth, or sixth, or seventh, or eighth, or ninth, or tenth, or eleventh, or twelfth, or thirteenth, or fourth. I don't even know. I wonder how many sets I did in those months and years of just nothing. I think I'd have the occasional high high. But a lot of the time

it was just you know the B3 just bombing. Totally. And like I feel like the thing that you never get over as a comedian, at least I haven't, is like when people don't like me

I take it personally oh it is it's personal and it's it shouldn't be it's a subjective art form you know you like this you don't like this you know like whatever but is that realistic

does anyone think that way honestly yeah no it's not does anyone like well that's me putting my favorite part of myself out there and you didn't like it, but that's okay. That's just an art form. It is personal because you think I'm not funny, which is what I've based my whole selfhood on. That's right.

So I don't like it. I love killing and I hate bombing. I'll be on the record about that. And the final one is, what's the oddest thing you've ever witnessed? Hmm. But that you weren't a part of. Like, mine was one time I did a show in Pittsburgh

and after the show, I was walking home from the club and there were two people having sex in an alley on top of a car completely naked no clothing anywhere wow was it for like a music video it's my bus event no it's so strange it's like i feel like over the years on the road you just see i feel like you just see odd things where you just go, wait, did that just happen? I was recently at the, I believe it was the, I was at LAX or maybe I was at the Burbank airport and I was traveling with comedian Dan Levy.

And it was one of those mornings where like, everything was funny because everything was so weird. Like just the way my interaction with getting my ticket and checking my bag was long, complicated, and very funny and needlessly complicated. And so we were getting kind of punch drunk on how difficult this morning had been and how weird it had been.

We were laughing a lot. And then we went into the American Airlines lounge and the Admirals Club. Thank you. And- Applause, applause. We walk in and we basically were, it was literally this. It was like, I almost said, could this day get any weirder? And then, I swear on a stack of Bibles, we walked into the lounge and standing in the entranceway was Gary Busey and he was pumping

hand sanitizer into his hands, rubbing it together and putting it on his face. And I almost don't, I didn't even file that under a story because I was like, I don't even know if I believe I saw that, but I definitely saw it. So this is the working it out section where we float things that we're working on. And I can start or you can start.

It's up to you. Why don't you start? Okay, so I'm starting a religion and it's called Nobody Knows. And we're accepting donations. You just Venmo me five bucks and you're now a member of Nobody Knows. And if you Venmo me $5,000, I'll tell you the secret. But I'll tell you the secret.

It's Nobody Knows. And if you Venmo me $5 million, you'll be flown in a private jet to a secret island and you'll be blindfolded and taken to the top of a volcano. And then I will whisper into your ear, Nobody Knows. And then you'll be flown home immediately. and taken to the top of a volcano, and then I will whisper into your ear, nobody knows, and then you'll be flown home immediately, but you must never speak of it

until one day you charge someone else $5 million to fly to the same island and pass on the mystical secrets of nobody knows. And you might be thinking at this point, Mike, what you're describing is a pyramid scheme, and that's true, but it's also a metaphor. I love that. All right, so what do you got?

Dealing with famous people is like dealing with toddlers. And the more famous the person is, just think about it like the more difficult the toddler is. They have a list of foods you cannot give them. Someone else dressed them. You can set them off and you can make them upset in the gentlest of ways

and it's not your fault but it will be treated as if it's your fault. I think Bob the most, like Bob Dylan and the world's most difficult toddler are probably very similar. Where you're like, hey, and they're like, oh, no. And you're like, oh,

and everyone's like, you shouldn't have looked them in the eyes. Why'd you look them in the eyes? Oh my gosh, I know. That's a really good point. And they don't have keys. Do people, now that they don't have keys. Yeah, it's real.

I see people, I always look at what people are wearing, like their pants, and I'm like, you don't have keys or a wallet. Yeah. Someone has those, and if we kidnapped that person, you probably don't know where your home is exactly, and you would not be able to get into it. Oh, and I have a toddler's thing too,

which is on the heels of your toddler's thing. All toddlers have a Boston accent. They're like, I'm tired. And Boston toddlers are like, I'm wicked tired. I got up early, I had toast and butter for breakfast, hamburger for lunch. You better put a diaper on me because I'm going to destroy these pants. Oh my god.

That's very funny. So stupid. I think like, I always wonder what happened to accents. I know there's still some regional ones, but when you watch old movies, people are like, nah, you're going to shit here. And you're like, what the fuck is going on back then? Did anyone hear anyone normal talk ever?

I have seen that with toddlers. That they're like, I don't want to do that. I want to go at 230. And you're like, oh, you... I think maybe old-fashioned gangster people just never learned how to talk because they're still talking like they did as toddlers.

Gangsters and celebrities sound like toddlers. Yeah. How come he's going at 230? It's very, how little kids say 30 is very funny. You're curious, like, do you, at this stage,

because you just released a special, I mean, you just released so many things back to back. The Sack Lunch Bunch, the Oh Hello Podcast, you just did SNL. Like, are you working on a new hour right now? Like, what's in your head? Yeah, I was really, I really enjoyed getting ready for the SNL monologue.

And I was pretty primed to go on to start doing clubs and then build a tour out of it. I need deadlines. I need to know like I'm doing the Comedy Attic for three nights coming up. And while I can work out new stuff there, I sort of think like, well, I want to know what, you know, I want to know what 35, 40 minutes of it is.

I've always had a good enough war chest, if you want to call it that. I've always had like an hour that I can do that's good, that I think is good, but maybe all of it isn't like I would film that tomorrow. Because I steadily do colleges and one-off shows all the time. Yeah. Well, I remember when you were getting ready for Kid Gorgeous,

you sent me the audio of a show you had done in Florida. And you were like, hey, do you have any thoughts on this? And the first 15 was like, I was just telling Pete Holmes this recently. I was like, the first 15 was 15 minutes of the best Florida jokes I've ever heard in my life. Oh, God, yeah. I was just like, what the hell? I called you. I go, is the Florida stuff in the special?

You're like, no, no, no. That's just my whatever, like upfront local Florida stuff. I mean, after watching Cat Williams, I could have left it in. Have you seen? His new one? No. Oh, that's filmed in Jacksonville? No, no.

Is it on Netflix? Yes. Mike. Oh, okay. I'll watch it. The first 20 minutes is about Jacksonville. And it is so funny that you don't even care that you don't know

anything that he's talking about. That's a riot. He has that quality about him. It was like fucking Jacksonville. He just kept talking. He kept just saying it. He was like, and the sun in Jacksonville, that's not like any other fucking sun.

And people are laughing so hard. I'm like, the sun in Jacksonville? And then he starts talking about, he's like, every neighborhood in Jacksonville sounds like it's the name of a soap opera. It's like, this week on Crystal Gardens. And people are dying laughing. People are dying. He's killing so hard.

It reaches a point where you're like, I think I was watching it a little, maybe I was doing something in the other room at first, and I was like, is he still on Jacksonville? I'm coming in and out of the room. It's glorious. I have so many local jokes that I've never found a home for. I have one

where I was in Boise, Idaho, and usually I show up in the morning or the night before so I can get a feel for the town and open with something about the town. And my flight was delayed from the night before so I can get a feel for the town and open with something about the town. And my flight was delayed from the morning, so I got in right before the show. And I said to my tour manager who had been there from the night before,

I go, what did you do today? And he goes, well, I went to this local breakfast spot, Goldie's, and they said the wait was going to be 45 minutes, and it ended up being just 10 minutes. breakfast spot, Goldie's, and they said the wait was going to be 45 minutes, and it ended up being just 10 minutes. And I was like, pull it back, Goldie's, getting a little cocky there with the wait times. And then he laughs, and then I walk on stage, and I just tell that story

as though it happened to me at Goldie's. And it worked, it worked. And then the next morning, I get up, and I go to the con concierge and I say, hey, which direction do I walk to get to Goldie's? And the concierge goes, well, you would know that if you had gone to Goldie's yesterday, like you told us all last night. And I realized that there are some towns that are too small to lie in. It would take me a few minutes to realize that. Yeah.

If I was a concierge, I'd be like, oh, well, here it is. And, you know, walk over there. Oh, wait, you've been there. Oh, no, wait, you said you've been there. To immediately go, well, sir. No, it was a full burn, and I took it. I took it hard. Good for you. Yeah.

Okay, this I'm trying to, this I like, but I don't know what will happen with it. When I was a kid, if you grew up Catholic, Madonna was so stressful. That's so good. She was like an older sister who would do something that would get the whole house in trouble. Yeah.

It would just set my parents and their contemporaries off. It would set the priests off. You'd be in church and they'd be talking about like, and the crucifix is not a thing for Madonna to wear in a scandalous video. And you're just like, Madonna, can you stop? You is not a thing for Madonna to wear. Oh my gosh. In a scandalous video. And you're just like, Madonna, can you stop?

Like, you're causing a lot of trouble. Oh my God, that's so funny. Like, good for you. But like, you know, we get lectured about your behavior. It was always like, and you're growing up in a world where Madonna is seen as someone to be like. And it's like, listen, none of us exactly want to be like Madonna. Maybe a couple of us do.

You know, we're not like, we're not going to make a sex book, but we do want to do some things. We do want to do some things. And if you're this after our ass now, when that sex book was going to come out, I remember just chomping down milk and magnesia, being like, oh God, I'm going to be paying for this for a year. Right. It's like, well,

you could be like Madonna and you could burn crosses with your friends. We're not going to burn crosses. How impressive was that Catholic upbringing that Madonna had to always have sex on camera with a crucifix and a serpent? It's really like, really

sticking it to them. I'm very annoyed that Russia's back in the news. Like Madonna, that was a thing. That was a stressor for my childhood I didn't need. Our great rival, Russia, indeed, a great foe. Remember we had the space race with them and that was very, that was foe. Remember, we had the space race with them, and that was a really serious rivalry. Here was the space race.

Russia shot a dog into space, which is the most Russian thing you could ever do. So then to retaliate, we shot a man into space. And then to retaliate against us, Russia slowly fell apart for 25 years. And then to retaliate against that, we shot like nine more men in space. And then we walked on the moon

and then we put our flag on the moon and then we drove golf carts around on the moon because we were so bored on the moon, we had to think of new things to do. And also that dog lived, by the way. And I'm sure had trust issues forever. They'd be like, get in your crate. You'd be like, oh, you want me to go in there?

And then you'll shut the door behind me? That kind of reminds me of the time you fucking shot me in the eyes. And then my final one is people always when they have a sometimes people when they die they'll come back to life and they'll say

there's a light at the end of the tunnel but I think that's sort of a hacky death hallucination like if I had that happen I would lie for sure like if I came back and I'd seen the light, they'd be like, what happened? I'd be like, there was a polar bear. And instead of arms,

he had talons. And inside the talons was one jelly bean. And then the polar bear said, anybody want any jelly beans? And that's when I came back to life. And everyone would be like, Mike had such a creative death. It'd be really funny if you

almost died. And then I'd come back and be like, I want to tell everyone that I saw God. And I will only reveal it on Joel Osteen. And I want it simulcast on a bunch of different networks. You know, I'd really drum it up

like, I must speak my witness or whatever you say in religion. And then when they said, like, you saw God, what did God look like? I'd be like, I hate to tell you, it's Zeus. It's all of that stuff. It was all of the Greek gods, exactly as they were drawn.

Yeah. Poseidon held a big trident and he said he was in charge of the sea. And goddamn if Zeus wasn't the most powerful of all of them. So they had it right years ago. So the final segment of the show is called Working It Out for Charity

and I know that you do a lot for charities and nonprofits. We've done a lot of benefits over the years. But did you have one that you wanted to shine a light on this week? I do. I would like to highlight the Parole Preparation Project. They're working to help incarcerated New Yorkers that are threatened by COVID.

It's an enormously large task. I think if you go to ParolePrepNY.org, you should read about what they do. They're recommended by the Innocence Project. Yes, that's right. And they have freed over 300 death row inmates who were about to be executed using DNA evidence. They're a great organization. and I learned about the Parole Preparation Project through them. And if you go to ParolePrepNY.org, it'll be the first big banner there. They're working on releasing aging people in prison, as well as working with the governor and other state leaders

to release any truly vulnerable people that are in the DOCCS. Well, I'm going to donate to them, and I hope the listeners will consider that as well. John, thank you so much for coming on. You've been a great friend and I'm always in awe of all of your work and thanks for working it out. Oh, I couldn't be more lucky to be your friend and in awe of everything that you do and you're an absolutely brilliant genius and if you didn't hear that

when you first came to New York, you should hear it now. You're the Michael Jordan and I will not hear any response refuting that. I think I'm a happy Scotty but I like you. Thanks for listeningty. But I like Scotty. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll see you next time.

Bye-bye. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. Again, that's John Mulaney. You know where you can find him. You can find him on Instagram at John Mulaney. You can find him on Twitter at John Mulaney.

You can find all his specials on Netflix, or the clips of him on Saturday Night Live are all over YouTube. I love that guy, and we hope to have him back again real soon. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski, associate producer Mabel Lewis.

Thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Go check them out on tour. As always, a very special thanks to my wife, the poet, Jay Hopestein. You can follow her on Instagram at Jay Hopestein. Our book is called The New One, and it got nominated for the Thurber Prize in American Humor.

It's one of the semifinalists. We're so proud. I love the Thurber House in Columbus, Ohio. You should check that out. Or pick up the book at your local bookstore. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who helped me create a radio fort made of pillows at the very beginning of this process for this second episode

we did way, way, way back when. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. I was walking down the street the other day in Brooklyn, and a man jogged by, and he picked up his phone with his earphones he was listening to, and showed it to me, and it was the podcast episode with David Cross, and then he flashed it, smiled, and then kept jogging.

And I just loved everything about it. Clearly that man is telling his friends, he's telling his enemies, because he knows we're working it out. See you next time, everybody.