Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 74. Ben Stiller: Get Some Sleep

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

This week Ben Stiller joins Mike  to talk about everything from leaving the SNL cast within weeks of joining to early nerve-racking test screenings for his film “Zoolander.” They also break apart Ben’s genre-bending hit series “Severance” on Apple TV plus. Ben aces the slow round with stories about growing up the child of two comedy greats, not making the high school basketball team, and the magical feeling of being backstage at “The $10,000 Pyramid.”Please consider donating to the UN Refugee Agency.

Do you remember a movie where you had a test screen and you're like, oh my God, what are we going to do? Yeah, I mean... Do you remember a specific movie where you're like, what are we going to do? There are definitely a few of them, you know. I think maybe, oh, Zoolander, first of all. Zoolander scored like a 48 out of 100. Oh, really? Out of 100? Wow.

And that's not good. Ha, ha, ha of 100? Wow. And that's not good. Welcome back to Working It Out. We have an unbelievable guest today. I can't believe we got him. I can't believe we got him to be in my movie Don't Think Twice. He made a cameo in Don't Think Twice. Of course, he's known from Reality Bites,

Meet the Parents, Zoolander, Tropic Thunder. Incredible, incredible movie career as a director, as a writer, as an actor. He's recently directed Escape at Dinamora, which was an amazing award-winning show. And now Severance, it's on Apple TV+. Before we get into it, I should point out that this week I'll be in Paris. Paris, France. I've never performed in Paris.

I'm performing in English. I made a funny video about it on Instagram. If you're over there on Apple Bigs. Then I'll be in Iceland. And then I'll be in Sag Harbor, which is in Long Island, New York, at the Bay Street Theater, this gorgeous, gorgeous little Bay Street Theater, about a 300-seat theater. And then I'll be in Los Angeles with the full production of The Old Man and the Pool

with the set design and the lighting design and all the bells and whistles for 40 performances, five weeks in Los Angeles at the gorgeous, gorgeous Mark Taper Forum. Get your tickets now. I'm so excited about that. And then join the mailing list at burbigs.com to find out about some fall announcements. We got like Detroit. I want to say Cincinnati. I want to say Salt Lake City. We're working on a lot of places. Join the mailing list at burbiggs.com. This conversation with Ben Stiller is great. He's a very sincere and funny person.

And it's just like wildly curious. Started sort of making his own short films when he was young. He had a short stint on Saturday Night Live that we talk about. That's hilarious. I think shortest stint ever by his own choice. We have this great conversation about his series called Severance on Apple TV Plus that I couldn't recommend more highly. It is funny.

It is strange. It is sci-fi. It is one of a kind. Enjoy my conversation with the great Ben Stiller. We're working it. one of a kind. Enjoy my conversation with the great Ben Stiller. I have to confess, I used to be such a film snob that I wouldn't even consider studio comedies to be real comedies or real film. And I got completely schooled by my idol, Mitch Hedberg, about your movie, Meet the Parents. So we were in Dayton, Ohio, and we drove by like a multiplex.

And he goes, have you seen Meet the Parents? And I go, no, you know, I don't really see a lot of studio comedies. no, you know, I don't really see a lot of studio copies. And he goes, all right, man, it's fucking hilarious. You know, and I felt like, and he's like my idol. He was my idol. I was like, oh, like, I think I should revisit this idea of being a snob. And then I saw Meet the Parents.

I loved it. And then I was like, okay, I'm wrong about this. Wow, wow. First of all, I love that you didn't go to studio movies. No, and I get that. And I think you want to make something that's going to make a lot of people laugh and reach a lot of people. But ultimately, it's the same thing

as you would do in any movie. It's just sometimes the parameters for what makes it and what is accepted are much tougher to get through because they have to reach a broader audience. But the other thing I was going to say was that just the fact that you knew and hung out with Mitch Hedberg, it's pretty like I've been thinking about mitch hedberg a lot lately because he was always one of my favorite comedians um and recently my daughter is going to drama school she's 20 and what they did uh for one of their projects they they had each of the students uh be a different stand-up comedian and actually do a bit of their work. So do some of their material.

And my daughter did Sarah Silverman. And her best friend, Elaine, did Mitch Hedberg. She did a great Mitch Hedberg. I love everything about this. Yeah. And it was really interesting because they're doing it word for word. And the teachers didn't want them to do an impression. They just wanted them to do like sort of an essence.

And it was really cool. And I just was just sort of like, oh God, he was just his material. And she did a great job with him and sort of like her own take, which felt like him, but also was like, you know, this really wonderful kind of light 20-year-old girl attitude also,

you know, that was like really beautiful too. The spirit that was coming through. But then it just was really interesting. And his, you know, his material, it's just, it's so specific to his personality, but yet the material itself is just so profound. It's just so profound. No, he's incredible. It's so funny you his personality, but yet the material itself is just so profound. It's just so profound. No, he's incredible.

It's so funny you should say that acting exercise. I did that in college. I did Dave Attell. Really? When I was in college. And the professor didn't know Dave Attell's work, so she just sort of thought like, oh, this is just Mike being funny.

I was like doing his jokes word for word. Well, it's also interesting because when you're starting out anyway, and these, you know, these are acting, serious acting students are not, you know, it wasn't, it's not a comedy school, but is there a comedy school? Do comedy schools exist? I think now they do. They didn't then. You know, they were just there.

So they're just acting students doing it. But, you know, when you're starting out, I think you naturally try to sort of be somebody that you want to be. And then you hopefully develop into something that's more your own thing. But you have to start from somewhere like that. That's what I talked about. I had Mitch Hedberg's wife, Lynn Shawcroft, on a couple months ago. And we talked about that because early in my career, I sounded a lot like that. That's what I talked about. I had Mitch Hedberg's wife, Lynn Shawcroft on a couple months ago. And we talked about that because early in my career, I sounded a lot like Mitch. And because I just loved him. I loved his work so much. And that's what you try to do. You imitate

and then you become yourself, hopefully. Like, do you have that as a director? Like, did you, were you trying to be Kubrick, trying to be like, you know, Spielberg, any of those people? Kubrick trying to be like, you know, Spielberg, any of those people? Yeah, I mean, growing up for me in the 70s, I was watching Spielberg movies and, you know, I was watching everything that was out, but mainly I was going more towards the pop culture kind of movies, the, you know, even like the, you know, Irwin Allen towering Inferno type movies. Yeah. Planet of the Apes films.

You know, there was a really interesting edge to all those. I mean, you know, they were formula movies, but, and then later, but yet there was something about them that was just very, I don't know, like very visceral. And, you know, then there was just an edginess and a grittiness to the movies too. And even the comedies also. So, you know, I was watching, as I got, became a teenager, I was watching more of like, you know, Bill Murray comedies and Albert

Brooks. I discovered around the time, you know, in the eighties when I was probably like my teenager, late, you know, like late teens, I guess. And yeah, those were the people that, especially Albert Brooks, that was for me. I was like, oh, I want to do that. The last two things you've done, Dannemora and Severance, are so different from Tropic Thunder and Meet the Parents,

all these other movies that are bigger comedies. But it's like, what's similar about those two things? Well, just going back to the thing about studio comedies and what that is, the bar that you have to hit is that you do have to make people laugh out loud in a way that's going to, is that you do have to make people laugh out loud in a way that, you know, like, yeah, and it's a real thing. It's a real, yeah, metric that's, you know,

that is there that is a lot of pressure, because you got to make it funny for a lot of people, and they have to laugh. And, you know, and most studio movies, if not all, go through some sort of testing process. So I spent a lot of years, you know, going to test screenings of movies I was in or had directed or both. Yeah. And sitting in the back of the audience watching, you know, clenched up. Yeah, of course. You know, it was not a fun experience. It was stressful.

I mean, it was great when it went well. Yeah. But, you know, there were a lot of those screenings where it was like, oh, you've got to hit this mark and people are going to give you a score, like a test. And, you know, everybody says at the end, you know, well, the score doesn't matter. It's just like how's the movie playing. And you really do get that. But there's also a number and there's, you know, a recommendation score, all this stuff. But there's also a number and there's, you know, recommendations, all this stuff.

And I think, you know, not having to do that, not having to have to go through that part of the process for me, especially at Dannemora was, again, like another realization I had was that, oh, my, like, this is the first thing I've made where I'm not, I'm not, I don't have to test it. And I think it was the first thing that I had directed that didn't have to go through that process on some level. And it was really freeing, you know, it was great. I remember seeing Tropic Thunder in the theater in Los Angeles, and it was such a seminal comedy experience because I was like, oh, he's making a parody of an action movie and he's making it with the production values of an action movie,

as good as any action movie. And that blew my mind. I was like, that's game over for me. Well, that was also just me, the director, wanting to direct that kind of movie you know honestly you know and that that even goes back to when we were doing the ben stiller show on fox and you know like i you know i think like people like odin kirk you know and uh david cross and you know we're like so they were so great at writing sketches and I would like come in on the writing and, you know, be a part of it.

But what I really loved was directing them, you know, and oh, we're going to do, you know, take off on Cape Fear. And it's like I can try to now do, you know, the Scorsese Cape Fear thing with our, you know, Eddie Munster Cape Fear. And that part of it was as exciting to me. And I think, you know, I remember with Tropic Thunder was feeling like, oh, you know, in the test process to the test screening process, it was like people, people like you probably were like, oh, that's really cool. But, you know, the audience that was coming to it that wanted to laugh and say, hey, do you want to come see a comedy with Ben Stiller and Robert Downey and Jack Black? They're like, yeah, I want to, you know,

with Ben Stiller and Robert Downey and Jack Black. They're like, yeah, I want, you know, and like we're like, and so I remember feeling like, oh gosh, they don't care about, you know, the helicopters and the vibe and this thing feeling like, like they just want to laugh, you know? Right. Which is their complete right.

If they go to a comedy, you go to a comedy. But I would get more into the other part of it too. And I always felt like the combination of it all was actually what was the fun part, you know what I mean? Because that actually does contribute to the tone of the movie. Did you ever have one of those test screenings? Do you remember a movie where you had a test screening

and you're like, oh my God, what are we going to do? Yeah, I mean. Do you remember a specific movie where you're like, what are we going to do? There are definitely a few of them. You know, I think maybe, oh, Zoolander, first of all. Zoolander scored like a 48 out of 100. Oh, really? Out of 100? Wow.

And that's not good for a test screening of a comedy. You know, the studio would like the movie to be like, you know, hey, we got, I mean, I was, I remember. By the way, for the listeners, one of the most iconic comedies of all time. That's actually an inspiring story for people to hear, I think. Yeah, and also, I don't think it ever got above,

like then you do some changes, you go back, and you tighten some things or try some things. I don't think it ever got up at more than like 60-something. Really? Yeah, but it definitely doesn't reflect necessarily the success of the movie ultimately. You know what I mean?

How it's actually going to do in the real world. Because I've been in movies that tested like 99 and did not break the bank. We need you to name names. We need names. Well, my own movies, like I said, Zoolander tested poorly. Tropic Thunder did kind of mid-range. And that is a trap that I found myself getting into.

And I'm not saying that generally directors get into, but it's a trap I found myself getting into, which is then you want to get a good test score. So you start to, you know, you want to please the teachers. Yeah, completely. So with Don't Think Twice, which you were generous enough to do an amazing cameo in, we were doing test screenings for not like official, like studio test screenings, like in Vegas kind of thing. It was just more like public radio listeners on the Facebook page. Like, hey, you want to come see this movie? You know, the Don't Think Twice If People Haven't Seen is about this group of best friends in an improv group. And Keegan-Michael Key gets cast on Saturday Night Live and the rest of them don't. He gets the dream come true job. The rest of them don't.

And it's about sort of what happens in life when it doesn't go as you planned. And that's what it's about, literally. And these women raise their hands and they go, I don't like them. And I think it was Ira goes like, what don't you like about them? And we quote this to this very day. They go, they're losers.

And for us, we're like, oh, they get it. They get what the movie's about. Like, they're lovable losers, theoretically, who aren't going to win in a traditional sense, and that's what it's about. But, of course, you know, sometimes that kind of feedback, it's, like, devastating, but it's also kind of humorously devastating.

No, it's ridiculous, yeah. Like, you have to just deal with it. And all of a sudden, like, that guy who's sitting in the chair like becomes like your everything. You know what I mean? Yes. Like the one guy who's like, I actually think he's funny. I thought it was funny.

And then you're like, yes, I love you. Keep talking. And then also always it's like the bad guy in the movie, you know, usually like will get a low score. Unless it's like a really like in the movie, you know, usually like will get a low score. Unless it's like a really like over-the-top entertaining, but like the bad person in the movie who's doing the bad things will get a low score because the audience doesn't like him. Right.

Because he's not a good person. His character is bad. And I think, you know, Severance has that in the sense that like, it's not like Adam Scott is like, every choice he makes is like the right choice. No, for sure. I mean, that's something we thought about a lot during making depressed. He's, you know, probably alcoholic. He's, you know, going through this sort of period in his life where he's grieving his wife.

And, you know, we intentionally didn't want to make him that likable. And also I always felt in this show, the fun part of it was that he has the innie, you know? So it's like this, so, you know, that's one of the unique things about the setup of the show is that you can have this character on the inside who's like actually maybe a lot more likable. And then you as an audience are wondering,

well, who should I be rooting for? And that, you know, that dichotomy and that sort of, there's sort of, you know, that conflict between the two parts of himself is kind of what the show's about. I relate to so much of the show because it's about, without giving away anything that's not in the first episode,

it's about this idea that one might have a procedure, it's a science fiction premise, that one might have a procedure that separates, that severs their work life from their home life and existence. And of course, like, it's so much a commentary on work-life balance and all this stuff is like, did you, did you feel like you learned anything from doing it? Because you, you lived in it for like probably a couple of years in that question. Yeah. I mean, I definitely lived in it for a couple of years because we started even before the pandemic. I mean, we, we were prepping for about six or so months before the pandemic and had been developing it for a year or two years before that. So it was a long process.

of being aware of that because you know how the sort of the delineation between home life and work life kind of went away and but then that does take away you know all of a sudden for people who tend to be you know I won't use the term lightly workaholic but you know uh tend to you know get wrapped up in in your work uh then all of a sudden it's sort of like you can just kind of go do it, you know, whenever. And then you have to put your own parameters on it. So I was more aware of how, you know, when I had to kind of turn it off. And that, you know, I think, ironically, not going to work made me more aware of how much, how invested in work I am. Not going to work made me more aware of how invested in work I am. I had that when I was a kid.

My dad, there's a room in our house that was called my dad's study, which is hilarious in hindsight, that my dad had a room called the study. It's ridiculous. He had a pipe. It's a ridiculous thing. He did have a pipe? A pipe with tobacco. Yeah, yeah, for real. My dad had a pipe for a while.

He did a pipe for a few, like some period of time. Then he went to cigars mainly and then that was it. I like that. But it's still evocative, that smell for me. I like the pipe smoke smell. Yeah. And yeah, the tobacco is great. It's actually a great smell.

Cigar is an awful smell. Yeah. And the pipe also has that little spoon, like the tobacco sort of stirring spoon, too. But my dad had the study, and when he was in the study, you knew, don't go the fuck near the study. Like, you're going to be in trouble

if you go near the study. I remember my neighbor, Leslie Saliba, her dad had like an area, he was a professor, college professor. He was like, there was like an area of the house, like do not go near that area of the house. But that's a severance. That's like, literally, it's a severed thing. Totally. And I had that with my parents too. We had what we called the big living room. And it wasn't big, and it wasn't a living room. It was an Upper West Side apartment,

and it was where my parents worked, mainly. And it was a 70s apartment, and they had this folding door, this sort of accordion, white accordion door. And when it was closed, same thing. They were in there, they were working on their sketches or their material, or whatever it was, or rehearsing radio commercials, rehearsing their act. And, you know, you'd hear them in there.

And it was definitely like when it was closed. And I think my room where I work and where I edit over the last couple of years and my son still lives at home, you know, I think he sensed that and everybody in the house sensed when, like, the doors were closed, if they heard the show that we're working on, like, you know, the dad's working. It just sort of like happens. Yeah. Yeah. It's so weird because I imagine that with my daughter. I'm like, does she perceive that even though I'm actually not intentionally creating that?

Exactly how I feel. Like I am not intentionally creating it, but I know it's a thing for everybody else in the house. I've become my parents. Your parents were an iconic comedy duo, Stiller and Mirror. Did you have a thing when you were a kid? My pressure was to not be in show business. My dad was a doctor, my mom's a nurse.

It was kind of like, do something practical and helpful. Your parents were in show business. My dad was a doctor, my mom's a nurse. It was kind of like do something practical and helpful. Your parents were in show business. Did you have a pressure to be in show business or succeed quickly? I mean, there wasn't a pressure to be in it. It just was so all-encompassing that it was just everything in the house and in our lives. And so I was definitely drawn to it.

I don't know if it's just me that I was drawn to it because I was around it. Yeah. And somebody else, if it was not me, if I'd been a different person, would have not been into it. And it's not like they were always having fun because there was stress around the house a lot of the time because of the work. But they got along pretty well, but they worked together a lot. So it wasn't like this idyllic thing. Right. But it was really, for me, it was movies and watching movies and being around it and seeing my parents do television shows was really exciting to me.

Yeah. So there wasn't pressure to go into it. I think it was all on myself myself and they were reacting to it. And I literally am just going through the same thing with my daughter, who's 20. I was saying she's in drama school. She just did it on her own and it was her choice. And as a parent, you have to make the choice of how you're going to support that and how how you're going to support that and what, how you feel about it. Um, and I'm sure my parents both had their separate feelings about it, but they

were very, um, they were different about it. Um, but they were, they basically sort of like, you know, let's let, let, let him do his thing and let's, let's be supportive of it. But they weren't pushing it in any way or expecting it, I don't think, in any way. It's funny because I would see your parents, who were always so nice to me, particularly your mom, like sent me a nice email when she heard me on the Moth radio hour. And she was just a very generous of spirit person. But it's funny because you went in your life with this weird, very unique pendulum of they were very famous. And then you were very famous and kind of more famous than them. And so they'd be answering questions.

Like I would literally see your mom answering questions about you. Like Ben's doing this. Ben's shooting this right now. And it's like, that must have been a wild experience. I can't, yeah. I can't imagine that. I can't, probably my daughter will probably be doing exactly the same thing.

But, you know, I can't imagine what that was like from their point of view, because I know how I am, you know, like, you know, and they were doing their thing. But the great thing is they never ever, there was never any weirdness about that. You know, they were always super. So when it got to that point,

they were always super supportive of it. Now, and I've been working actually with Jeff on a documentary about my parents. Oh, wow. Yeah, since my dad passed away a couple of years ago and my mom, it's a few years. And we were selling the apartment where we grew up. And just starting to think about those questions about how they looked at their, as they got to the age that I am now, and as I'm looking at, you know, my life at this point in life, you know, you still love doing what you do and you want to keep doing it. And, you know, in show business, there's always

this lack of security anyway. You know, I know for my dad that, you know, when he did Seinfeld, that was a really wonderful thing for him in his career at a moment in time when I think it really meant a lot to him. Yeah, of course. And my mom, though, was, you know, very talented and really, really good actress, serious actress. But she never had that later in her career. She never had that later in her career, but she also, I think, was okay with kind of, you know, she was a writer, she wrote plays, she was an avid reader, she was interested in a lot of different things. I'm sure that she was aware of that and it was weird for her. We used to joke around.

I mean, I remember we had a good sense of humor about it yeah she would make fun of me and I would like joke with her and I remember I used to like pretend I was her bodyguard crossing the street with her and I'd be like telling people to get out of the way and she would make her laugh or um I was like I went on a special diet when I was like 18 or 19 because I had bad skin I was trying to clear up my skin yeah I was going on auditions I was like I'm not gonna I had bad skin. I was trying to clear up my skin. I was going on auditions. I was like, I'm not going to get jobs if I have pimples. Also, I couldn't act really well at that point. Working It Out is brought to you in part by Helix Mattresses. Helix is a ground floor, first adapter sponsor. They saw the vision of Working It Out.

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pre-portioned, so you're not overbuying or wasting food, but it's easier than it's ever been to get filling meals on the table in a snap with options like family-friendly or quick and easy recipes. Go to HelloFresh.com slash Burbiggs16. That's B-I-R-B-I-G-S 1-6 for up to 16 free meals and three free gifts. That's HelloFresh.com slash Burbiggs16. Use code Burbiggs16. One of the questions we ask on the slow run sometimes is, what's an inauthentic version of yourself that you look

back on and you sort of cringe, like, oh, God, that phase. Yeah. I mean, there's probably like 20 years of that that I could look at. But, I mean, I, you know, there was a period of time when I was, yeah, like I was trying to figure out who I was, I guess, as an actor. And, you know, I wasn't great at auditioning, and I wasn't that comfortable in front of the camera. So it was like a long period of time

when I was just really awkward at acting, I think. And that's when... This is in your 20s? This is my, like, teens. Okay. Like, yeah, teens into early 20s. You know, until I started to really get work and even then i look back i mean there's a first movie sort of substantial role i had well i had a little role in empire of the sun um steven spielberg movie but then there was this movie

called fresh horses uh that starred molly ringwald and andrew mccarthy and i got the role as the best friend and i just whenever the movie didn't really do well it doesn't get shown a lot but whenever i would show up in that movie i was like doing i was like really trying to be funny you know right right just pushing like the best friend pushing pushing and yeah and i and i look at that um i mean there's a bunch a couple of movies like right at the beginning where I look at it and go, oh, my God, what was I doing? Because I was nervous, you know, and I think but then, you know, looking back and I was like, I was trying to figure it out. I was trying, you know, trying to figure out how to do it. But it takes a while for some people. Some actors are just out of the gate, natural, and can do it. But for some people, it takes a while to find that. And so for me, it took a while. When you were growing up, what was your role in your family, like with the siblings?

I was, well, so I had my older sister, Amy, and I. And we were, I mean, I would terrorize her. I would give her a lot of problems. Because I wanted to, you know, she was like four years older than I was. And she had cool friends. And, you know, and she'd have like her girlfriends would come over. And I would be like, oh, wow, girls. And, you know, I would like want them to accept me.

And then they wouldn't. And so then I would just, like, make, you know, just to, you know, like, I'd, like, you know, we had an intercom and our phone in the house. And I'd, like, pick up the intercom and, you know, like, just, like, you know, yell things into it. Or she'd be on the phone. And then I'd, like, get on the, you know,

the other line and just, like, go, ah, ah, ah. You know, stuff like that while she'd be talking to her friends I was a little bit out there but I was it was you know we we sort of were also like kind of left to our own devices a bit because my parents were away a lot working and our housekeeper Hazel who would watch out for us, you know, we would just kind of like run rampant and she, you know, she was so sweet and would be there for us. But also we would kind of like just go crazy too. What's your earliest memory?

Your youngest memory? I feel like it's a really good one. I mean, I have this memory of being in a pool with my mom and my mom holding me and sort of like her sort of like, you know, kind of, uh, bobbing up and down in the pool and, uh, you know, like just remembering, you know, you know, what, like smelling her skin and, you know, pool and feeling, you know, being held. That's, that's, I think probably my earliest memory, but you know, it's, it and, you know, the pool and feeling, you know, being held. That's, I think, probably my earliest memory. But, you know, it's not a specific memory.

It's just like a feeling. No, I get that. Because I had that. I have a lot of pool. My new show is called The Old Man in the Pool. I have a lot of pool memories, like YMCA pool memories when I was a kid. Yeah, we had a lot of pool memories too because my parents would go on the road doing summer stock plays.

Yeah, so they would go to places like, you know, Cape Cod, like Pianosport, and Flint, Michigan, Dayton, Ohio, and play these, you know, do like Prisoner of Second Avenue or, you know, yeah, Neil Simon comedies where they would do them for a couple of weeks and then they would go to the next place.

And they'd do it for like six weeks in Paramus Playhouse in New Jersey. And they would stay at some, you know, motel, not motel, but like kind of motels, you know? Like they were like nice motels, but they had a pool. Or like go and play Vegas or play Reno and do their act. And we loved it. It was just the best.

It was so much fun. I just remember being part of my parents' work and being welcomed in. For me, it was such a big thing to be, I mean, weird, you know, memories, but being backstage at the $10,000 Pyramid game show, you know, hosted by Dick Clark. Oh my gosh. So like they would, they would shoot it on, you know, on 58th street at some snort laugh for me, $10,000 Pyramid. I remember that so well. It was one of our favorite things my mom was really good at my dad wasn't great but my mom was a really good um celebrity you know person on it and they would go down they'd do the five shows for the week right you know monday through friday

they do them but they do them all in one day so they do like three in the morning have lunch and then two in the afternoon or something like that and And it was so much fun. The cold air of the studio and, you know, and whoever was backstage, you know, whatever, like William Shatner or LeVar Burton or like getting to meet all these people and getting cheeseburgers for lunch. They'd order out. I don't know. It was just like a really exciting, fun time to be a part of my parents' world. That makes me happy because sometimes I always get worried, you know, sometimes I get worried if I, you know, I'll bring Una to The Tonight Show or something like that backstage and I'm like, oh, is this too much show business

for a kid to take in at that age? But hearing you say it as a fond memory makes me happy. Yeah, I mean, you're probably imprinting it on her so she's going to show business for sure. Because I'm sure that's part of what made me want to do it because it's the fun part. It is the fun part, you're right. You're showing her the fun part of it

and you're not showing her all the blood, sweat, and tears of what it takes to get there. Yeah. Can you think of something in your life where it actually changed your life, but at the time you didn't realize it would? Wow. I think about, you know, like I guess professionally deciding not to stay at Saturday Night Live. Oh, yeah.

I'd gotten this job there to be on it, and then I made this choice to not go and stay. Yeah, you were one of the only people to even leave, really. Yeah. I don't think there's almost anyone in history who really of their own volition sort of left after what a year or two no after like six weeks oh after six weeks yeah my gosh i know wow um but i kind of like felt like and i and i it had a lot of repercussions down the line you know in terms of just like my relationship with the show and with Lorne.

But I also knew at the time it felt like, okay, there's just something telling me this is not the right thing for me right now. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's a real presence of mind to have that when you're like probably in your young 20s. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know when you're like probably in your young 20s. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if I – I was like probably, yeah, 22 or so. I don't know. But like – Jesus. I don't – or 20, maybe more. Maybe like 23 or something. But I feel like I didn't quite know it. It was like more of like a just like I just did it and I kind of like was kind of just going with my gut. But I wasn't like aware that I was going with my gut.

I just sort of, you know what I mean? I didn't have a self-awareness. Like, oh, I'm making a decision that feels right. I just sort of did it. Did you tell Lorne you were doing it or did you just go? Yeah, no. I mean, I had to tell him and them and it was... Oh, my God.

Oh, my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And now of course there's Michael Cohen on the show. Yeah, but part of me does regret it, you know, because I think about, oh, well, if I, you know, it stayed, like, what could that have been? But I also just didn't have the faith in myself as a performer to kind of do that. also just didn't have the faith in myself as a performer to kind of do that i felt like i needed to have more sort of like be in a situation that i could figure it out on my own more because i wasn't going to fit in well to what they did because i didn't know how to do it that well wow yeah do you have a when you were growing up was there a group that wouldn't let you in

um the high school basketball team did you did you try out yeah i tried out i did not make it um that was did not feel good because it was i mean obviously i didn't have a lot of height but you know this is a small upper west side private school yeah you know, and there were maybe 14 kids who tried out for the team and 12 got on. Yeah, that's very funny. You were in an elite class of losers. Yeah, and I still think back on it to this day. And I'm like, God, that was, I really must,

like that didn't, I must not have been good at all. That and I'm like, God, that was, I really must like that. I must not have been good at all. That's so funny though, too, because you're, I mean, to, to get where you are in show business, you're, you must have a competitive spirit about you. Sure. Right. Yeah. I mean, which is, I think can, you know, sometimes be a good thing and then sometimes it isn't a good thing, especially, you know, to be competitive at things that you're not good at is not helpful. You know what I mean? Yeah. And even things you're good at, especially creative stuff, it's hard because you get caught up in it.

And then your focus goes away from really just doing your own thing. And that's a lot of work goes, I think, for me, it's gone into that, into like just like going, okay, what do I want to do? Now what am I looking at with somebody who's in a similar, you know, sort of like similar circumstances and they're doing this and I'm not doing that. I'd work that out as a joke on this show

with Gary Gullman like a year ago it's never made it on stage but I think it's a funny premise which is like when I was a kid I would play sports and I would lose but the worst part about it was I was competitive so it's like

I was a competitive loser it's like I wanted to win it wasn't like some guy who's just like yeah whatever happens it's like no no to win it wasn't like some guy who's just like yeah whatever happens it's like no no i'm dying to win this thing well that's yeah that's the nature of yeah of being competitive it's like you know and i don't like i wish that that was something you could just turn off inside of you i don't know i guess if you get evolved and you can somehow meditate more or something i I don't know.

But it's there. You have to acknowledge it. I think you have to acknowledge it. But I think that's what, I mean, I think that we're onto something because that's a similar, you and I have that in common. And I think a lot of great comedy is people trying to do something and failing, but the trying is earnest. Right.

Yeah. And there. Right, yeah. And there's definitely, yeah, there's a lot of comedy in that. Charlie Chaplin did that. Buster Keaton did that. Like, they were attempting to succeed. Right. And it's having, like, there's also humor in somebody who has a sense of, like, a distorted sense of themselves.

Yes, absolutely. Or a sense of self-importance, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because underneath that, there's so much pain. You know what I mean? Like underneath that, there's just so like the person who is trying not to feel that and yet, you know, having to, at some point it's going to catch up with you, you know? Yeah. What,

what's the best piece of advice someone gave you in your life that you used and it worked? Um, gosh, uh, I mean, one piece of advice that, uh, my dad always used to say to me was just, um, get your rest, get some sleep. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And I would be like, oh, okay, okay, okay. But it honestly does make a difference in life, right? It's huge. No, I've been given that advice. I think it was,

I asked Brian Dennehy if he would play a part in a movie years ago and he read the script and he was like, this part's not for me, but I'm not going to do it, but I really like your script. I think it was for Don't Think Twice. And I forget which role,

but it was like, but he goes, he literally sent advice. He goes, you're going to do a great job. You're going to make a great movie. Make sure that you eat. Make sure you sleep.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's amazing how crucial that is and so simple. Yeah, and it sounds kind of simplistic, but it is like you can go to sleep, have the weight of the world on you, and you get some rest and you wake up the next morning and it is a new perspective.

It's just different. It's different when you're just like know, when you're just like rusted or you have space from what was happening the night before. It's kind of like magic or something, you know? It's kind of amazing. Working It Out is brought to you in part by Noom. Noom is an app. I have it on my phone.

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Working It Out is brought to you in part by Uni. Uni Pizza Ovens. Oh, I couldn't recommend this more highly. First of all, when I guest hosted for Jimmy Kimmel, he sent me one. And I have to say, his endorsement, by sending it to me, is actually, I think, more powerful than my own endorsement

because he is, like, the real deal pizza maker. If you follow him on Instagram, you'll see he makes serious, serious pies. The act of making pizza is very personal. It's about building connections. It's celebration, education, family, making memories. Ooni makes affordable, portable pizza ovens that run on wood, charcoal, or gas. They're sturdy, well-made.

They look cool. This is the key thing. They heat up to 950 degrees. I know you're thinking, who cares? 950 degrees, 350 degrees. Mike, what's the darn difference? I'll tell you what the difference is. If you have your oven, the pizza oven,

it's all about a lot of things, but it's all about the water for the dough and it's about the temperature of the oven. If you have it at 950 or in that vicinity, you really only have to put it in for like a minute. Don't quote me on that, but about a minute. Don't quote me on that. Once again, about a minute.

Don't quote me on that. This summer, go to uni.com and make a pizza. O-O-N-I.com. O-O-N-I.com. Tell them Mike Birbiglia sent you. They will probably continue to support me as a pizza maker. Here's a couple jokes

that I'm working on. These are brand new. This one is literally from this week. I overslept this week. I setlept this week. I set my alarm for nine. I woke up at 11. But I slept through the alarm and then I had a dream

that an alarm was going off in my dream. And in my dream I go, is that an alarm? And someone in the dream goes, no, that's another alarm. And they didn't make up what alarm that was, like a fire alarm or someone's phone alarm. And then in the dream, I said, what time is it?

And the person goes, I think it's like seven. And then it just occurred to me like, these dreams have no accountability. It's so stupid. It's just a free ride. Yeah, no, I like it. I like it. Yeah.

Well, I like anything also that has to do with dream logic or dream reality, too. Yeah. You know, because I have trouble remembering my dreams. I have trouble remembering my dreams. And of course, whenever you recount a dream to anybody too, it always just sounds so weird and not important and specific and like loses its power somehow. Yeah. Well, because I think like Severance as an example,

like a lot of people say like movies are dreams, well-directed kind of thing. Right. And Severance is a example. A lot of people say movies are dreams, well-directed kind of thing. Severance is a perfect example of it's extraordinarily specific. I think it's in the specificity that we're drawn in and we care. I think a lot of times with dreams you go like, my alarm went off, blah, blah, blah. It's not quite specific enough for you to lock into. Right, right.

And I feel like that was one of the things that I felt really strongly about when I saw Severance is I was like, when you make a movie about being an astronaut, you want to be obsessive about like, this guy has to be exactly what it's like to be an astronaut. You make a war movie, it's like, this has got to be what it's like to be an astronaut. You make a war movie, it's like, this has got to be what it's like to be a soldier. But Severance, it's like, this has got to be what it's like

for the thing that doesn't exist, fictional scenario. Yeah, no, exactly, which is fun, because then you can sort of create it yourself. And coming off of Dannemora, which was trying to get such a specific reality and I was so nervous about that because I didn't know that world so I was like you know hyper into the research of it and trying to you know capture that but it was out of fear of getting it wrong and in this it was sort of like okay it's kind of like there's a feeling that we're going for I guess

it is kind of like a dream where like you know there's a feeling that we're going for that's going to feel right but we can kind of make it up, but we'll know when it's wrong. But you know, that's, there is a lot, it's a lot of fun to kind of work within those parameters and kind of create it for yourself. And, but it's also the thing at the end of the whole process, you're like, I hope this actually is something people want to watch and relate to. And that we were in some way doing something that makes sense, you know, because you don't have anything to compare it to. Did you have, on the set, did you have rules?

Or maybe this is too much of a spoiler. It's like, did you have rules for we want it to feel like this? We want it to be true to itself in XYZ way? I mean, I think there were no hard and fast rules i mean there were visual sort of stylistic things we were trying to do you know yeah but it came down to the actors really like the actors what i realized was that there would be there would be scenes where i'm like oh god i don't know if this is believable or not or this is kind of weird and crazy but then when you get the actors on the set and they're investing in it yeah and they're actually

you know you have john tuturo and adam and uh tramell tillman all these people were like really investing in these the reality of this yeah whatever it is, it totally changes it. Because they're so real and you believe them that it's like, oh, yeah, okay. I buy it. Yeah. I buy it because this person is taking it seriously. It's so hard to, it's amazing that you pulled it off because it's so hard to pull that off. Honestly, I feel like that's the, honestly, I feel like that's the actors though.

Like the actors are doing that. Like the actors, as long as they had a way in, right. We talk about like what something meant, right. Or try to understand it. Then they,

you know, and then, then they took it over and then it's like, all right, I'm just like, these people are believing it. So I'll just, you know,

I'll believe it. Yeah. Because ultimately you're, you're just trying to get people to essentially see themselves in the characters they're watching they're trying to you want them to see a humanity that feels like their own life yeah and it's also that thing of what if i was in this situation yeah you know what i mean sort of like okay these people i i love the metaphor of the whole thing like the idea that oh these people are at work and they're doing this thing but they you know and it's sort of like drudgery and it's sort of like mundane

and sort of like get my coffee and do my thing but they've never really questioned who they are or what they're doing or why they're there and to me that's just that is just what life is you know what I mean that's what we are all.

Of course. Religion is about that and philosophy. But ultimately, at the end of the day, we're all trying to figure out what we're doing here. Well, this is an existential joke I'm working on, which is Janet and I are supposed to write our will, which we still haven't done. It's in the show right now.

Still haven't done it. I talk about it every night. I'm on stage show right now. Still haven't done it. I talk about it every night. I'm on stage in Chicago every night. Haven't done it. Yeah. Well, it's kind of weird, right? It's weird. It's insane.

I have a weird sort of, you know, this thing where I'm afraid that if I like write down how I'd like, you know, what I'd like my funeral or my, you know, what I'd like to be done when I pass away. Cremation or whatever it is. Right, whatever it is, or ashes scattered, whatever it is, the second I write that down, it'll be like, oh.

And ironically, he had just written down what his final wishes were. I think that's just Jen has because because i'm willing to write the will i think jen is less willing to do it i think she has a superstition right the moment you write it down it's gonna happen thank god he wrote i mean isn't that weird yeah yeah so i so on the will it says health care proxy and we all know this is the thing nobody likes to talk about. It's who decides if you're on the cusp of life or death, whether you live or die.

Right. And, you know, it's, I do thumbs up, thumbs down, sound effects to make it palatable. And, you know, I love my wife so much. I feel so lucky to have found her in this lifetime. That said, there are days when I think maybe she shouldn't be my healthcare proxy. You know, like a few weeks ago, I got out of the shower and I dried myself off. And then I put the towel over the duvet.

And then I left it there for a couple hours. Then it dampened the duvet on the bed. And she sort of gave me this look as if to say, like, if you were ever in a coma. You know, death, death. But she didn't say it. She didn't say it. It's just what I was reading into it.

It's a, yeah, it's a heavy responsibility, too. I mean, to really really that stuff is just so oh my god I mean it's just and it kind of is just all like so surreal too because I had to go through that with my parents too and it's like you know

come on it's like well yeah because you just experience the thing which is awful which is someone's death and then you have to figure the whole thing out. Yeah, and when it comes down, it's like nobody should ever have to do that, you know? And, I mean, it's a greater discussion about healthcare and also the idea of, like, what we now have evolved to where people can be, you know, kept alive and, you know, all those things. Oh, my gosh, yes. It's just awful, awful stuff.

Oh, my gosh, yes. Just awful, awful stuff. Oh my gosh, yes. But of course, your series opens up that can of worms too and got me into a weird existential place thinking about that. Right, right. And yeah, so I mean, all that stuff is, it's hard in life to deal with. I mean, that's where I come back to sense of humor though

because both my parents had such great senses of humor. Yeah. That like somehow that their sense of humor through that, even though like having to deal with that stuff with them, you know, was sort of I don't like I felt like that was sort of something that I got from them that like I felt connected to with them that them, that feeling somehow that they could see the humor in all of that, too. That's so sweet. Yeah, yeah. I mean... To me, that means that there's a great... Your parents gave you a great gift.

Definitely, definitely. And, you know, it makes me emotional even thinking about it because that's so much of, like, who they were, too. But that means so much when your parents are gone is that stuff stays with you. All right, so we end on working it out for a cause. And I know that you do so much work for refugees around the world. I'm a huge admirer of it. I'm sure that this would be your cause. Is there a specific link that you want to send people to? I think going to UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency.

You know, the work that they do is pretty amazing because they're all over the world. And there are people who are, uh, you know, field workers there who go out and are just helping people try to get to safety who are fleeing from persecution and violence all over the world. Yeah. It's unhcr.org. And yeah,

you, and you've traveled the world. I mean, this, you've like put your money where your mouth is in this front. Yeah. I mean, it's really just trying to, to meet people and help tell their stories. And because, uh, you've like put your money where your mouth is in this front. Yeah, I mean, it's really just trying to meet people and help tell their stories.

And because, you know, there's so many people who are affected by whether it's war or some type of, you know, even eco disasters, things that are happening to people that are forcing them through no fault of their own out of their home. Let's imagine if you or I had a bomb drop, you know, on our house, and then we'd have to just leave and go and didn't have anywhere to go. And that's what, you know, it's like something like 84 million plus people in the world, 84 million who are displaced. So it's such a big, big sort of number. And when you meet people, you realize that there are families who are just trying to move forward in life. So yeah. And right now with the war in Ukraine too, it's, you know, there's a lot more. And I feel like if everybody had the opportunity to do what I do, which is go and meet with people and talk to them, you would immediately feel the same thing, which is like, we got is like we have to do more to help each other.

Well, it's one of the reasons why I admire you, not just as a director and writer and actor, but as a person. I've just always admired this about you. And I'll donate to them. I'll link to them in the show notes so people can donate as well. Thanks, Mike.

Well, I admire you too. I'm a fan, as you know. Oh, thanks, man. Well, thanks admire you too. I'm a fan, as you know. Oh, thanks, Ben. Well, thanks for coming on and congrats on Severance and I, yeah, it's a huge feat and I can't wait to see where it goes in season two. Thanks, man. It's good to see you. Working it out

because it's not done Working it out because there's no one That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out with Ben Stiller. I am fascinated by Ben Stiller. I love Ben Stiller. He's just a fascinating artist. I can't wait to see what he does next. Absolutely watch Severance on Apple TV+.

Follow Ben on Instagram at Ben Stiller. Our producers of Working It Out Are Myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer Seth Barish. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Sound recording by Chuck Staten. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to my consigliere Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. As always, a special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. And of course, my wife, the poet J-Hope Stein. You can follow her on Instagram at J-Hope Stein. She just announced her book of poetry, Little Astronaut, is coming out in September.

You can pre-order it. You can find out about it over there on Instagram. Our book that we wrote together is called The New One. It's at your local bookstore. And we appreciate all your nice notes on all the various sites giving feedback about our book. It continues to reach new people, which makes me so happy.

As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created the original Radio Fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you like the show, give us a little user rating. Give us a few stars. Say which episode you like most. Mention it to your friends.

Even mention it casually to enemies. One of these enemy mixers, you know, where you get all your enemies together and everyone talks about their gripes. We're working it out over here. We'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.