Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 051: Milk for Babies... BFR & Triggering for Muscle

Episode Date: March 27, 2015

Sal, Adam & Justin answer listener questions about minimalist shoes, dairy, anabolic trigger sessions and blood occlusion (BFR).

Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh to go. Mind, mind, up with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Welcome to Mind Pump. You've got the three most powerful best debaters in the fitness industry, matter of fact. And the universe. I'm a master debater. We're the master debaters. Yes.

Of the masters of the universe debaters. Are you, you got food in your mouth, the trap? I'm actually also a master We just tell these master baiter. Oh, I get it. It's unbelievably unprofessional You that I'm eating and I'm doing this but I do you guys have is there anything professional about the show though? No, there's nothing professional about me. I'm not you know, that's just like when people to I've had people give me a hard time about Like a role model and stuff like that. I don't know.

About what on the show? No, just in general, you get to a certain point where, you know, there's always some parent or somebody comes up to you and tries to tell you like, do you really think you should cut something like that and say you'll miss or do you really think you should post things like that? Yeah, it's like, oh, shit.

You know how my kid does that? You're job to raise their kid. Well, yeah. I don't fucking care. I've never set up some role model. Like model like I try to be nobody's role model I do you can don't follow me but I wouldn't do what I did. I wouldn't do what I do Like I'm not trying to tell you my role model All right, we're doing the Q&A. Oh, I forgot to introduce us. This is Sal the staff of our model. I'm here with Adam Schaefer

Who and Justin Andrews? Yeah, baby, and we got Doug Eggy in the background, the producer. Yes, sir. There he is. All right, so let's do a little Q&A. We're going to start with the first questions is from one of our Instagram followers. His name is dog fitness. Dog fitness.

DWG underscore fitness. I already liked this guy. Now his question is, what do we think about minimalist shoes? So minimalist shoes. Is it like a five finger shoes. Yeah, five finger shoes or running barefoot. Middleest is without the little finger slits. But yeah, it's just basically shoes with a very thin,

thin, like ballerina slippers. I don't know if you should wear those out like my chucks. Yeah, yeah, that might be minimalist, but you know, no, he's talking about, they're kind of like a fight with your character. I know what they have. But they have the bottom, the tread is,

is a general. Yeah, I have marbles. I have marbles like that. Marbles, yeah, those are good. So he wants to know what's the positive, what are the negatives of using them for, or anything from what? Well, I can tell you, for you want to write out

the likes. I can tell you already, you look silly. There's your first negative. Why'd you look at me? Because I know you got to bear. You just said you had a pair of shoes. And you already look silly, and then that makes you already you look silly. There's your there's your first name Why'd you look at me because I know you got a pair you just said you had a pair So there and you already look silly and then that makes you look even more silly. Yeah, but which is fine I mean of course there's like some some benefits to it You're barefoot and you've been what most of us have been walking around shoes since before we could walk our parents

We're putting shoes on us when we were crawling So our we've got adapted to having our feet and platforms our entire life. And then now, son, you work barefoot at whoa, so new muscles got a fire and work right now. So there are muscles on the bottom of your feet. So here's, so yeah, there's going to be some cool benefits to getting that, you know, but you guys know how this whole trend started? How it started? Yeah, this whole trend of like going barefoot or wearing these minimal issues. This was based off that tribe in South America.

Yeah, there was this guy, he was a runner, I think he was a scientist, and he went and observed how people ran in some of these tribes. I believe it's in South America, or there's a Mexican, there's a tribe, somewhere down in Mexico. Just a book that I'm thinking of. And what he noticed was, is a lot of them ran barefoot

or ran with very, very minimal type shoes. And the way that their foot strikes the ground is different than the way the foot strikes the ground when you have big, thick, running shoes. Oh, your toes can grip. Think about it. Well, what happens is you land four foot first instead of heel first.

So if you put like running shoes on, they're designed to like strike with the heel first. And with these minimalist shoes, or when you run barefoot You tend to strike with the ball of your foot just just like a split second before the heel because the ankle is actually a massive shock absorber Mm-hmm And what you notice was this is the way we're supposed to run and then of course, you know It's better to do it this way, but here's a deal if you're 20 years old or 30 years old or 40 years old And you're like oh great. I'm gonna go run barefoot.

You know what's gonna happen? You're gonna hurt yourself. Because you've been in shoes your whole life. Exactly. So it would probably take you, I don't know. Yeah, it's a progression. I mean, you have to train them just like any other muscle. I've actually had some clients go from real padded shoes

that some of them even have had orthotics and trying to scale that out. It takes time. You have to really start at different levels because your foot is formed into a certain position for so long, it acts like it atrophies. It's like a cast. Have you seen a foot? It's like a squeam for your feet.

It's a squeam. It is. It's a so that's the new name for shoes So your your your foot screams Nice foot squeeze bro. Yeah, so Adam Adam's very nicely manicured feet would not last the second Yeah, I'm like in like a primitive society This is another reason why I'm not a fan of these things I don't want my till is to get all sculled. Have you seen like when you see like a hunter gatherer societies that still exist? Have you seen pictures of their feet?

No, I've not. So first of all hunter gatherer, where are you hanging out bro? No, he's just outside of San Jose. He's got a research in bro. He's like, well you're in down 101, you take a ride over. No, no, no, no, you go online and look at it. So they have pictures of their feet. So you see me like National Geographic. Yeah, well, you're in down 101, you take a ride over. No, no, no, no, you go online and look at it. So they have pictures of their feet. So you see me like, National Geographic.

Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, okay. I see you National Geographic. Yeah, you just look at the boobs. Yeah. So they have, they have really thick, um, soles, really thick, calloused soles, and then their toes are kind of spread out. And if you look at the average American who takes their shoes off,

their toes are all scrunched together. Some people have hammer toes. The bottom of the foot looks like, uh like it's just a thin piece of skin. So you're gonna go try running barefoot. You're not gonna, it's not gonna be good for you. Now in terms of lifting weights, I will say this. For some lifts, very minimal issues are awesome. If you're gonna deadlift, you want very flat.

If you could do a barefoot. Yeah, I swear. Yeah, if you could do a barefoot, that would be great. Well, that's why the big, I mean, I don't know about you guys. If you've noticed this, I mean, for sure we talked about this before in a podcast that, you know, since the CrossFit generation or what I thought has came around or, uh, era, you've seen this huge amount of, uh, increase of people squatting and deadlifting and squat racks and stuff.

And then the second, most trendy thing I've seen now too is barefoot people taking their shoes. Like that's like the new things. Well, that and platform type shoes. Which I elevate your shoes. I'm just gonna say, because if you're doing dead lifts, you want shoes that are almost barefoot.

If you want to squat, most people do better with a little bit of a heel. Yeah, a little bit of a heel. Yeah, like the Olympic lifting shoes, right? Because when I squat, I have hiking boots kind of like hiking boots that I wear. And then when I do dead lifts and every other workout, I have the minimalist shoes that you make fun of and you say, I look stupid in.

So it's going to work. This is the ones I wear. It takes all this shit personally. Well, you just see, you know, a lot of people squat barefoot, so that's a big popular thing. There's a lot of people. I can't do it, because I'm too tight in my calves. I squat better with a little bit of a bun barefoot

and doing kettlebells. Do you wear pants? Do you wear pants too? Sometimes I don't that then you know how far down you yeah I want to hit the floor it's like oh Right back I'm off of visual it probably is really bad I think the he just we pay we take a saucer of cold water we put it Here's my one thing. I also going to say on this.

If you like him, you dig him, you think they're cool and you enjoy it. Then go for it, do it, more power to you. I'm always a guy like, okay, biggest bang for my buck, Parrish uses ain't going to do shit, dude. I mean, it's your turn about split hairs on how much is going to help your performance or help you. Well, if you're just working out and doing stuff to improve your look and physique

and all that, if you're trying to actually move and function and get lateral and transverse plane motion and if you have padded shoes, it's really difficult to, I mean, the whole cross-training shoe was a joke. You know what I mean? I will just say as far as like having the minimal issues, if you're doing things that are a little more athletic based, they're great. But dude, like doing the slat or whatever, you're gonna tear the shit out of those shoes

and they're gonna last you a week. Yeah. Very good point. Very good point. Next question. This is from Tess underscore Christie. So T E S S underscore Christie. So T-E-S-S underscore Christie, it's another Instagram follower.

Her question is, what are our thoughts on dairy? Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer. Milk is for babies. Yeah. So what do you guys think about dairy? What do you guys think about cow milk? Because there's like conflicting, right?

There's people who say, I don't drink it. I can't forget. I don't drink it. I love it. I don't drink it. Yeah Dare I can't have dare I'm I'm dare intolerant so I don't have any however There is a big difference now first of all if you're gonna have darey and you want the health effects of dairy You gotta you gotta have the full fat. I'll be the real deal have full fat whole milk That's where you get the benefit what What's it's pasteurized, marginalize, you're pretty much taking out most of the goods, the major good stuff that comes with it. You know, they do studies, they've done lots of studies on that.

Western Price did a lot of studies on this where they took raw, and by the way, the reason why milk was pasteurized in the first place was because, as a certain point in American history, cows were crammed into these small little, you know, cells and they were fed shit and they would have bacteria in, cells and they were fed shit. And they would have bacteria in their milk and people were getting sick and so they had to pasteurize it. Well, if you have healthy cows that are eating grass and I'm hoping you can drink raw milk and it's going to be okay.

I used to squirt it in my coffee when I was munching them. Did you really? Yeah, every day. Every day that was right. I get my love. It was a warm. It was a warm right from the teeth, right? That's why it awesome. It wasn't like, you know, when you have coffee, you're cream or you're coarse. Yeah, it's cold, but straight from

the tea, bro, it's warm, right? What? You just, I do in the jerking off motion. No, there's a role for the video, everybody. Roll with your fingers, brother's a technique to it. Yeah, you can't just pull on it. No, you can't. You can't roll. It's always funny to watch somebody try and pull on it and think you're milk, so it doesn't work that way. It's probably the same thing.

It's the same thing as it's probably the same way that it's sour pulled on your dick if you were gonna come or not. It probably wouldn't work. Probably wouldn't, right? No. It didn't take long for Adam to go way off the deep end. Yeah, Dairy full fat raw milk.

Oh yeah, geez, I'm trying to get back on subject. You're talking milk from hand jobs and damn it. All right, next question. This is from John Wayne Cowboy. So John underscore Wayne underscore cowboy. Okay, this is a good question. What's a trigger session? So we've been talking about trigger sessions all the time.

A trigger session. Yeah, so in a nutshell, a trigger session. That was horrible. That was bad. I apologize. So a trigger session is designed. So let me rewind a little bit. You send signals to your body to build muscle

in a number of different ways. One of the ways that you send a signal, the one that we are all familiar with, is by causing muscle damage. So we all know that, right? You work out, you get sore, you cause micro-terrorism muscle in your muscle fibers, and then they aim to repair and then build stronger so that they can withstand

that stress the next time without getting damaged. But what people don't realize is that there's other signals that will tell your body to build more muscle. And just speaking for myself personally, don't realize is that there's other signals that will tell your body to build more muscle. And just speaking for myself personally, this came to me because I was reading this study in the New England Journal of Medicine. Yes, I do read the New England Journal of Medicine. There was a fantastic study in there where they took groups of people and they had them

lifwaits. And this was a trip because one group, they had them stay natural. And then the other group, they had them take steroids and they had them not work out. So they said, you don't do anything, just take some steroids, and then over here, you guys lift weights properly and stay natural. And this steroid group actually built more muscle.

They didn't even lift weights. So to me right off the bat, I said, holy shit, tearing muscle down is not necessary. How awful is that hormone? Well, what it tells me is that your body doesn't just build muscle from tear down of muscle. You don't have to damage muscle to build. It's gotta be stimulated, that's it.

There's gotta be other methods. And so you're limited when it comes to in the gym. You can't, I can't go to the gym and lift weights hard and tear muscle down every single day, two, three times a day because there's a limit. There's a point at which your body's recovery ability just gets, you know, overcome. You can't do it. So I thought to myself, how can I stimulate muscle growth frequently, like all the time without tearing muscle down all the time? And that's what a trigger session concept is. And so in a nutshell, a trigger

session is a very short, very low intensity, full range of motion type of activity, where you're aiming for a pump, you're aiming for a small burn, kind of like what you might do backstage, Adam, when you're pumping up, you're not like doing a hard work, I you're just trying to get blood flow.

And as a result, what the trigger session does is it facilitates recovery, you recover faster. It amplifies the muscle building signal from the day before when you actually did tear muscle down and you create little to no muscle damage. So, it's like a turbocharger. And so this is what a trigger session is and this is what people are doing. That's what Justin's been doing as part of the routine. And we all do. We all do. We all do. We all do. And we all think it's a flagra for the muscle.

It is. And we all think it's pretty breakthrough. I think it's something that people are going to start utilizing more and more. It's a concept nobody's ever really talked about. So so that's what a trigger session is. And you can use it in a whole bunch of different ways. Adam uses it differently than Justin's been using. For example, Adam, how are you using? So because your your number one goal is yeah, aesthetic. So I'm always looking at, you know,

and the way you've designed sugar session is for overall, right? So overall balance for somebody and like it's phenomenal the way it's designed. But when I'm going through the maps program, I'm always, I'm, I'm, I'm modifying for what I'm specific. So for example, every, after every show,

I critique my physique because when I'm peeled all the way down to like 2% body fat, I can really see my symmetry of what, you know, where I'm off, what needs more development. And I'm always super critical of myself. And after every show, there's something that I'm focusing on. And I like to pick just like one or two muscles that I'm like, so, you know, I'm going to up my calves. And it all even be a specific like maybe my, you know, my, uh, rear delts, you know, rear delts and calves. And so my triggers and sessions are consistent of exercises targeting those, uh, more frequently than anything else, just because that's more important to me to watch

that bring up than anything else. Not that you couldn't do it, uh, probably how Justin is where he's hitting all the other body parts and everything, which is he's probably getting more bang for his buck, but I'm looking for a more specific, you know, change in an in a muscle group. Now, how's it working for you since you've been doing that? Oh, it's been great, you know, it's been one of the big things that I that's I've changed as far as how I train is and And when I was younger, I felt like I could just, I could pound my body in my workouts. Be smooth, every workout and just come back

and just be soar, come back, be soar, work through it. I mean, never stretch, never do anything like that. And now it's like, my body lets me know when it's been overdone in the slightest bit. It's, I've got, just like my clients, you've always told me. And for me, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. It's the best because for so many years, I used to teach my clients and tell them, but I probably didn't focus on it as much as I do now. Now that I see the feel, the importance of and realize like and and can see like for example

You know because I'm training for shows and I'm like for example talking about like trying to bring up like my shoulders Right, so that was a focus on like two shows ago. So I was hitting shoulders at least three times a week And what was happening was my shoulders actually work fine But my triceps from hitting shoulders three times a week and hitting chest at least two times a week, and then also hitting triceps. I mean, my triceps were getting so overworked, they were so shortened and tight,

that it was pulling on my own. And I could, my elbow felt like someone's sticking a knife right in my elbow. And, you know, I didn't realize what I thought, man, what did I do? I did some like, oh, maybe this is tennis elbow. This is what everyone talks about. What is this?

And then I go get my massage, Katrina's rubbing me out. And I tell her where I'm hurting. And so she hits my trigger point, my back, and then starts to release my tricep. Also, and I have like full range of motion. L, all the pain goes away. I don't know, I'm like, holy shit. So because of that, I've now learned to incorporate it to kind of how Justin was

doing with the dynamic flexibility. So that's why I thought that was really cool that he was doing that. I was asking if that's what he would consider that when he was doing that. Because sometimes my trigger sessions will be like that, will be, I'm just working on flexibility and range motions. I'll get a little pump, but really what I'm trying to do is also stretch a muscle out and keep it active like that and not let it shorten and get tight like that. So yeah, I play with it a lot, dude. And I think that's the fun part about,

you know, how you originally designed this. And that's, it's so neat to listen to Justin tell his story and how he set it up. And then I don't really talk about what I'm doing because it's different, you know. And we just have that training run. So we see your program like, this is awesome.

Now how am I going to twist this? For exactly how I would utilize it for me. Beautiful. I love that. I absolutely love that. All right. So the next question is from, and I can't really read that.

OK. It's from our Y Rivera 10. His question's about occlusion training. Otherwise known as BFR, which stands for blood flow restriction training. We've talked about this a couple of times. Yeah, we've talked about it. We've brought it up a couple of times.

We've brought it up a couple of times. Big detail though. No, and the reason why we haven't gone too much into depth is because it's an advanced technique. It's the potential for you to mess up is high. But does it give you results when you do it right? Well, I can tell you and Adam will attest to this. And I know Doug's been doing this quite a bit also.

We've been doing it now and we figured out kind of how to do it right. And it does work. You do build more muscle with it. So occlusion, the reason why it's called occlusion is you're using knee wraps to occlude venous outflow. So in other words, if I'm doing my arms, I'll use knee wraps and I'll wrap them up near my armpit around my arm.

And it prevents blood from coming out of the muscle, but it doesn't prevent blood from going in the muscle. So you get the, you get the, not a tourniquet. No, this is not a real tight situation. No, you put a tight, but it's not tight to where your hand turns parallel. Well, you're also using something that's got elasticity to it too.

So it's a knee wrap. Yeah, exactly. Knee wrap is gotta, you're doing it snug for a knee wrap, but you're not even tying as tight as you possibly can with it. And with the elasticity in the knee wrap, it's enough to get blood to get out down there. So you're not completely cutting circulation off. And that's how, you know,

he probably brought this question up because I just actually posted this. So I just posted that what I'm currently doing as far as, you know, my diet where I'm at with my workouts. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. And I'm incorporating BFR at least once or twice a week. And BFR, like Salah saying,

is just short for blood flow restriction. So BFR means least once or twice a week. And BFR, like Salah saying, is just short for blood flow restriction. So BFR means blood flow restriction. The technical term on this blood occlusion, you're probably gonna see BFR more come surfacing because it's just a sexier word than same blood occlusion. So, yeah, both of the same thing.

And like we were just talking about with the trigger sessions, I actually utilize the BFR that way too. So... Oh, it makes it in with the trigger. Yes. Yeah, that's the same thing. So I play with it with the trigger sessions, and then I also do it in traditional routines also.

So that's kind of how I... Like as a finisher? As a finisher, exactly. So what I'll do, like let's say, just yesterday I just did this, okay? So yesterday was shoulders and calves that I worked. So at the end of my shoulder workout, I just went over and I hit two sets of calves and the first set I did traditionally,

and then the second exercise, or the second exercise, two exercises, sorry, two exercises, and the second exercise I did, I did a BFR. So I already got kind of a little bit of a pump with my first exercise, and then I just BFRed it at the end and just wore. Well, we should talk about what it feels like.

Caves, oh yeah, it yeah, it feels like fire. What can I tell you? The first, so this is fucking sauce. So the first painful thing that I've ever done in the gym. The best part about this was the first time I actually did this. I, I had read up on it and I was like, oh, this is cool. And, you know, the studies talk about the, and this is why this is so fascinating to me is that they compared it to somebody that was lifting heavy weights.

So lifting it like 80 to 90% of their max load versus somebody who was BFR, and they looked at the amount of muscle that was built from that and it was equal. Right. And that's just, yeah. Because when you do occlusion, you use like 30% or 20%, you go really light. Yeah.

Because you can't go heavy, because you get this pulling effect in the muscle, where so much blood is being pumped in there, and not enough is being pumped out, that you actually start to fatigue the muscle fibers at a much higher rate. So like if I'm doing cable curls, be a far style, and I'm putting like 40 pounds on the cable, which I could probably do 120, right?

I'll put 40, and I'll rep out 30 reps. I'll wait 30 seconds, and I'm putting like 40 pounds on the cape, which I could probably do 120, right? I'll put 40 and I'll rep out 30 reps. I'll wait 30 seconds and I already, you know, you get that pain, right? Cause the lactic acid starts to build up. You go to, I'll go grab that 40 pounds again and now it's like 10. And then the third set's like five. It's like a just fatigue, fatigue, fatigue.

So that was what was so funny was, so I'm reading on the study and it talks about, okay, it's actually the protocols about 20 to 30% of your max load so 20 to 30% that's like nothing right that's less than what I warm up with I normally warm up with a heavier weight than what the protocol is for which you're supposed to work out with this and they and you know I'm reading up on it I'm like oh this is cool this is something like you know I'll do this on days when I just don't

really feel like getting after it like when I feel like I'll take it easy when I lift light today I'll tie my limbs off and I just don't really feel like getting after it. Like when I feel like, I'll take it easy when I lift light today. I'll tie my limbs off and do some blood occlusion. So the first day I decided to do this on legs, right? And I'm like, oh, let's do this on some leg days. I just went heavy a couple of days ago and I feel like really getting after it. Oh, dude. I get in there and I do it on the leg press, right?

And I, oh, the pump was so insane. I'm like sweat dripping down my face. And I'm like on this light, light, the pump was so insane. I'm like sweat dripping down my face. I'm like on this light, light way. It was burning so bad. I could not wait to take those straps off my legs, dude. So you'll know when you got it right, because it's not, it's, it's easy weight you're moving, but the pump is, it'll feel like the most massive pump that you've ever had. And you get the, you know, that burn you get when you're working out, that, that's lactic acid build up. It's a multiplied type of change. It's there. Here's, here's a multiplied time stand. It's, it's like fire.

I cannot wait to get those straps off my, you know, off my calves or whatever, when I'm doing it. And here's the other thing too, is that you can overdo BFR because that's what I did. When I first did it, I'm like BFR all the time. Let's do this. And you could totally overdo it. Yeah. So there's definitely a right way to do it and then there's a wrong way to do it. And the right way you'll get results,

the wrong way you'll actually structure regrets, which is what happened to me. I started going back. Well, this is why I feel it's, I think, you know, I know we're talking about it and I think I kind of feel like we straight away from it almost like the other topic we were talking about just because we hadn't had a chance to really explain in depth all of it.

I like to release a guide, so because there is... That's a great idea. Yeah, there is some ways. One, you can overdo it. Oh, like the internet fasting. It kind of reminds me of that. It's like the internet fasting of working out. It's not something I recommend you do every single day.

It's not anything I recommend you do several times in a week. It's something that you intermittently throw it in your workouts. And I think it's got great, great up benefits for it. I definitely should include video because people should see how to put the straps on properly because it took me, it took me a few, quite a few times before really max learning how to do it. Can we do that? Can we do that on the private portal? Can we actually post a video of us on the, do we have the ability to post on the Facebook that the portal?

Oh, there we go. We have the technologies. It's like the $6 million dollar man. Oh, yeah. So there we go. And nobody under the age of 35 knows what that is. So that's what we should, what we could do is actually show that on the on the Facebook portal.

That way we don't create some crazy some crazy crazy don't put up the wrong Occlusion video we don't want people to see you doing your auto erotic asphyxiation Next question, I think that was it. I think we're done with the questions. We're good. So thanks for listening Bye. Thank you. Thank you for listening to mine pump for more information about this show and to get valuable free resources from Sal, Adam, and Justin, visit us at www.mindpumpradio.com. Until next time, this is Mind Pump.