Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1105: How to Train for an Obstacle Course Race

Episode Date: August 26, 2019

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin break down what it takes to be a successful obstacle course racer and how to best train for a race. The phenomena that is obstacle course racing (OCR): The history, origins, how it became popular, the value & MORE. (2:49) How the struggle gives us meaning. (9:00) What it takes to be a successful obstacle course racer. (13:30) You MUST have endurance/stamina. (14:25) The importance of having mental toughness/grit. (17:27) How your grip connects you to everything else. (23:37) The significance of practicing and strengthening your skills to build up your work capacity/durability. (28:43) What does the ideal physique look like for an OCR athlete? (37:40) How to program/train your body for an OCR. (40:36) The importance of mobility. (43:19) Building the foundation of strength. (45:07) Using the running component to your benefit. (47:00)  Create daily practices to toughen your body up. (49:30) The value in testing yourself. (51:00) People Mentioned Joe De Sena (@realJoeDeSena)  Twitter Amelia Boone (@arboone11)  Instagram Ben Greenfield Fitness (@bengreenfieldfitness)  Instagram Justin Brink DC (@premiere_spine_sport) Instagram   Related Links/Products Mentioned August Promotion: MAPS Prime & Prime Pro ½ off!! **Code “PRIME50” at checkout** MAPS OCR Preview Promotion: Discount code “OCR30” at checkout Mind Pump 595: Joe De Sena Founder of Spartan Race & the Spartan Up! Podcast "Field physical training of the soldier. 1917" Fight Club (1999) - IMDb Obstacle course racing scaling its way to Olympic inclusion The Rise of Obstacle Course Races The association of grip strength from midlife onwards with all-cause and cause-specific mortality over 17 years of follow-up in the Tromsø Study Mind Pump 630: Amelia Boone- Obstacle Course Racing’s Queen of Pain  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Alright, so this episode of Mind Pump, we talk all about obstacle course racing. We talk about the races themselves, but also how to get your body ready to do an obstacle course race or look like you're ready. Because a lot of people want to look like

obstacle course racers, you know, that long, lean type physique, muscular, but not too muscular, functional, can move really well. So we talk about the history of obstacle course racing, how they started, why they're so popular? Like why are they so popular today? Why are people signing up to do these incredibly challenging races?

We talk about the attributes that you would need to do a successful obstacle course race. And then we break down the training. How would you want to train your body to get in this kind of physical fitness shape? What do the workouts look like? How should you structure it? What are the exercises you want to focus on?

And then we also reveal that we came out with a Maps optical course racing program. Maps, OCR, it's our newest program, brand new launch. Here's the best part. We wrote it with decorated optical course racing champion, Amelia Boone. It's a brand new maps program. It involves everything, strength training,

durability training, endurance type training. There's toughness for your grip, for your body. There's practice test days. So we teach you how to test your body during the week to see how well you'll perform when you do the obstacle course race. Now, because it's a brand new launch, it's gonna be discounted, okay? So we're doing $30 off for all new people enrolling and for a limited time, you'll

get a free t-shirt and good or sunglasses. Those are the sunglasses that sponsor Amelia Boone, their great durable sunglasses and they look cool. Oh, and also, for the first 300 people who enrolling this, you'll get 10% off your first Spartan race when you go to the page to sign up. So here's what you do, if you wanna get this brand new Maps OCR program, just go to mapsocr.com and use the discount code

OCR30, no space to get you $30 off and to get you the free t-shirt, the good or sunglasses while supplies last, and 10% off Spartan race while supplies last. This promotion will be lasting till September 1st. So the promotional rate, September 1st, so make sure you act quick because after that the price will go up to its retail rate. And that's it. Here we are talking about obstacle course racing. I have something I want to talk to you guys about.

What's that? We have no idea what you're about to say. We have an implansional. We've had a few things on this show that we've talked about that we've kind of changed our minds on how we feel about it. And a topic that we've had guests on, we've talked a little bit about it. And I know we've openly addressed that we've kind of switched our way of thinking about it. But we haven't gotten into detail about the pros, the cons, how to train for,

or any of that. But this thing that everyone thinks is a phenomenon right now, which is obstacle course race. Oh yeah, I thought you were gonna say cross it. Yeah. Just like, we changed our mind. Yeah.

No, you're right. We are stands on obstacle course racing, totally changed. I remember what happened. I mean, our old episodes, some of our original episodes people would ask us about it and we weren't like anti it wasn't like we were anti-opsicle course racing, but We compared it to just how that was kind of silly. Yeah, and we have client

You know, we would have all these clients that the way that they would motivate themselves to work out was by signing up for Marathon after marathon or race after race or event after event. And so that was kind of our stance on it. And then we went to our first obstacle course race. We got invited by Joe Dessina, who, one of my favorite interviews, great guy, great storyteller. And the energy surrounding obstacle course racing,

just the environment that was there, the people that were there, and also understanding the real value of that kind of racing. Well, something about us is that when we get into something too, like this, the nerd, I think, in all of us, starts to kind of dive more into it. Okay, there's more to this. Like, what is this phenomenon? And when you start to unpack where it came from and the history of it, it makes a lot of sense why it's so popular today.

Especially in this climate, right? Because you look at the environment and you look at the daily habits that you have and like, you know, the limited amount of activity you're doing and how comfortable it is in terms of whether it's cold, whether it's hot, like we can control all those factors now. Yeah, I mean, life is very easy now,

and compared, I don't mean to make light of anybody's struggles. There's definitely challenges that we encounter today, but I think generally speaking, I can make this statement that modern life is far easier and less dangerous and less strenuous than it was 100 years ago, 200 years ago, and definitely easier than it was 1000 years ago. It's just a lot easier.

And the thing that we're starting to realize is that struggle is kind of what gives our lives meaning. We need to have it. In fact, if we don't have struggle, we tend to become anxious and depressed. And so it's crazy that people are seeking out struggle. Like they're signing up for these obstacle course races. Well, think about, I mean,

you gotta share the history a little bit because it was what, like 1917? Oh, before that, I mean, it got, it was, before that, but it got really popularized in like the 19th, right? Yeah, early, early 20s or 17 around there. Yeah, obstacles were first put together to train militaries. And this is when general, combat training.

Yeah, and generals were trying to come up with ways to improve the battle preparedness of their soldiers who had never fought in war. And so they thought, okay, how can we get these people physically ready and mentally ready to fight in battle? And that's where we see some of the, you know, historical references to the first obstacle courses

where soldiers would go through, they'd run, they'd climb, they'd lift, they'd go through water and crawl under things and jump over things and carry each other to kind of get them ready. Many of the obstacles look exactly the same. Yes, exactly the same. I didn't know that until we started diving into it and kind of doing the research on the history. And when you look at many of the obstacles that we were watching when we went to our

first Spartan race, they're identical to what they were doing all the way back in 1970. Very, very similar. Okay, so I pulled this up. There was a training camp manual written Army Field. This is a 1917, it's called Army Field Physical Training of the Soldier. And in it had a recommended off-school course for soldiers. It was a hundred yards long. And Ed had it involved a, it involved ditches, hurdles, fences, sandbag climbs and walls that you had to climb and runs that were elevated and all that kind of stuff. And in the book, here's a quote from it.

It's like sprint 10 yards to a three foot hurdle, sprint 15 yards to a smooth wire entanglement, 10 feet wide, and it says arms must be folded while crossing the entanglement, hands may not be used, sprint 15 yards to a ramp, five feet high, immediately joining, which is, so this is just in the book. And that's when they kind of became popular,

but again, it became popular in the military as a way of getting people in shape. And I think part of the popularity came from the physical aspects. You know, it got people fit. The other part of the popularity for the military was how they were encouraged to encourage each other and work together.

So what you see in a lot of these obstacle courses was you're running to climb over a wall, but you have to work with the people next to you and with you. You're only as strong as your weakest link. Yes, and a lot of modern obstacle course races kind of involve that, right? Like I know with Spartan people will run as teams.

No, they encourage the helping of others too. They do. And this is where I see the big value. Now, don't get me wrong. Off-school course racing, getting ready for one and doing one, you got to be fit. You got to be kind of tough. You're dealing with a lot of different things. I would even make an argument that there's another element. It's the mental fortitude. That's it. That's why I really see in that. To me, that's, and I think that's also why we are so drawn to it today. Totally. Because in the last decade, just in the last 10 years, this has exploded.

Sure. I mean, some people think it just was invented in the last 10 years. It wasn't just invented. It was around a long time ago. But as far as to the general population, it has exploded. Now, why is it that all the sudden these engineers and lawyers and, you know, tech that's doing these races. Right. Totally never had dirt under their nails. Right. And I think it's because, you know, and it's been amazing that we live in this time that we can be at our house and

order our food and we don't have to go anywhere. We can search and figure everything out by our fingertips with our phone. And so I think that because we don't see the same adversity that just even our parents generation, and for sure our grandparents generation had to deal with, because they would probably, I feel like my parents' parents, if they saw us doing obstacle course racing, they would be like, what the fuck? Get out of the farm. Yeah, I got plenty of shit to do out there, the yard.

Till the fields. That'll kick your ass all day if you want to, but because that's so foreign. You know what it reminds me of? One of my favorite movies of all time, Fight Club. You guys remember Fight Club? I love that movie, dude. That's an old movie.

It's a classic. If you haven't seen it, you gotta watch it. But in the movie, and it's a great movie, I won't give it away. But in the movie, one of the characters is just, he's living the ho-hum day-to-day life. Show up at the office. Buy everything on As Seen on TV. Yeah, do your job. Go home, eat your TV dinner or whatever, go

to bed, rinse, repeat, and he's just like, I'm just not feeling alive. And so what he does is he ends up, and this is part of the premise of the movie, he creates this fight club where guys meet up and fight each other and become friends and it's through the struggle and challenge that they find value in this fight club. It's kind of like that, right? No, like a hundred percent. it's like, you, you, and this is what we're exhilarating. It is, it's like, you know, that, I think that's 100% why they're so popular,

it's because people are doing their day-to-day desk jobs, they're, they're not feeling alive. Part of feeling alive is this struggle. Adversity. It's adversity, it's challenge. And so people are, they're, they're signing up for these races, getting prepared for one of them is hard training.

Now you're brushing your butt, you're motivated to work out. They sound scary, they really do. Spartan races can be rough and difficult. I mean, the one we went to and visited in Tahoe, I mean, it was, it's up at altitude. There's swimming and freezing cold, lake water. They're climbing people.

I mean, they look like they're going through battles. It's like you're preparing mentally for this thing. Then you sign up for it, you go, you do it with your friends, and you go through this incredibly difficult challenge together, and then at the end of it, you survived. And it's just an amazing feeling, and it's why, and it's why so many people enjoy doing this. Well, it's also why we flipped the script

on how we felt about it. Totally. I remember when Joe explained this. I've totally, vividly remembered when I was like, oh, I think we probably even set it in the podcast. Oh, I changed my mind now. Yeah, like that makes total sense and I see incredible value for that now.

Like originally my trainer fitness brain looked at it like just exes a nose Yeah, just pure fitness like if my if my client wants to lose body fat or wants to build muscle is obstacle course racing The best thing and I don't see where that fit right the my the trainer brain and me goes like that safer to be in the gym Yeah, it's like no absolutely not I could program something in the gym that would get them faster to whatever their goal was But when Joe made the case of where our society is at today and what we're seeing and What this type of obstacle course racing provides for them and the value that it adds on the side of the mental aspect Was when I went oh fuck. Okay. Now now you've got me sold on the idea and now it makes sense why so many people are

flocking and drawn to doing it. They're exploding. 2010 is when tough muddler first came out, Spartan was shortly after Warrior Dash and between 2010 to now, they have become a global phenomenon. All over the world, global phenomenon. Of course, it's in these developed nations. And again, it's because people are seeking that challenge. They're seeking it out.

Now, I also think there's another side of it as well, which is, and this is what makes a lot of these phenomenon, these fitness phenomena popular. When you see people who follow and do these races and do well, they look the way people want to look. And I think that's a very motivating factor for some people like, you know what? It's challenging, it's a little scary,

which is exciting, right? Things that are scary tend to be exciting. Maybe I can do this and wow, look at those people look how fit they look, because the reality is, if you get ready for an obstacle course race and you complete one, your fitness level is way better than it was before when you were sitting on your desk

or just doing your normal two, three days a week at the gym. You have an incredible fitness level. So what I think I want to talk about is, I want to cover the attributes. Like, what does it take to do one of these races? What does it take to compete? Well, how do you train for something like this? How do you get ready for an obstacle

course race? Well, the first one that comes to mind that I think you have to have is endurance. Yeah. Just stamina, right? Right. And I think that you'll see when it first kind of got popular, the athletes that were winning the races that were at the top tend to be the ones that converted over from like an endurance sport. Right. So initially when it was new to kind of the general pop and people sort of flooding into it and you know became competitive and we were seeing winners and people that were winning

on a regular basis, it seemed to be the men and women that had already experienced other endurance sports. Yeah, I definitely like it's you to point A to point B the most effective. Right. men and women that had already experienced other endurance sports. Definitely. That gets you to point A to point B, the most effective. Right, those ones really excel. It's kind of cool when I think, as we're sitting here talking about it,

it kind of reminds me because this was during our, you know, we're getting old now. We've watched many modalities, you know, being created. And I think of MMA, right? When MMA first started, like, it was, you know, it was like a type of fighter, a boxer versus a first started, it was a typified or a boxer versus a wrestler, and we got to see that,

and you'd see who would emerge to be the greatest. And then eventually, the ones that now, it's like, if you're gonna be at the top of UFC, you gotta have it all. You gotta have it all, right? And that's kinda like, I feel like the evolution that we saw with the Tough Mud or the Spartan races is right out the gates for sure endurance

is like one of the most key components. So if you had an endurance background, you get dropped into. And because it's necessary. Right. And we've run in, yeah, like a lot of the rock climbers and people that had really like solid grip strength in endurance.

So I was another wave of racers that would do that. Oh yeah, we're gonna go there, we're gonna get there first for sure. But I do wanna go back to just pure endurance without endurance in stamina, you're dead with OCR. I don't care how strong you are, how great you are at whatever.

That's a necessary. Yeah, it's gonna stop you in your tracks. That's why the endurance athletes at first did the best. It was, again, back to MMA. If you didn't know Jiu-Jitsu, you were dead. So it was the guys who had the best Jiu-Jitsu. Now, it's like, it's, again, back to MMA. If you didn't know Jiu-Jitsu, you were dead. So it was the guys who had the best Jiu-Jitsu. Now it's like, okay, well, everybody knows that.

You get to have everything else, too. So running is a component. Running and that kind of endurance is stamina, as well as muscular endurance, is a component. If you're training for OCR, running is gonna be a part of your training. You can't get around that. It's just a big part of it.

I mean, you start the race by running. In between obstacles obstacles you're running. There's, you're running at least a few miles. And as you progress through the stages, like Spartan has, you run more and more each one. Absolutely. And running is a foundational fundamental, physical, you know, pursuit for humans. This is actually one of the things that humans, now the modern people don't do it very well because we never practice it, but we actually evolve to run. We're phenomenal distance runners

if we're fit and we practice it. So if you practice and do it well, running can actually be a pretty awesome thing. It's just not something that, you know, for regular fitness, I think people should just totally rely on, but when it comes to OCR training, training you better have endurance. How about mental toughness?

You gotta have mental toughness. That's a huge one. The mud, the cold, the elements. I mean, when we went up to Tahoe, it was freezing. So it was already cold. We're at elevation. There's mud, you're running in the dirt. All the elements.

You're falling in freezing water. You're grabbing objects that are rough and hard. Like, basically, there's nothing comfortable about this entire experience at all. And so it's a word I miss this word, grit. If that is a word that you don't see, I don't look at somebody these days and go, oh my god, like look at the grit,

look at the amount of mental fortitude this person has to endure and to weather through these challenges. And I think that that is a very desirable attribute that a lot of people just don't consider these days. Well, I think that's it. I think we tend to lack that today it. I think we, we tend to, to lack that today. And I know, unfortunately, this has been picked on with like millennials, right? And we, and we tend to point at like a age generation.

And I think it's less of a generation and it's more of a result of just our times. So I think it's gotten worse. Tough as we need to be. Right. Exactly. We, we, we don't have to be mentally tough a lot of times. And because of that, it's made a lot of us weak regardless of what your age is. And so, I know people tend to pick on and point at that generation, but it's more about what's happening in our time, which is this is to me of all the cases that we'll make about OCR and the positive benefits and all the attributes that come from it, what it takes to be a great OCR racer. In my opinion, this is the most important piece or the most valuable piece to it, because

you could be a person who gets in shape in the gym and build some muscle, lose some body fat, and never really challenge your mental toughness. I mean, if you make a really good, put together a very good balanced diet and you exercise intelligently, you can build a pretty aesthetic and healthy physique and never really stretch yourself mentally. Like, you really won't. I mean, you don't have to. Now, it's not necessary where this is necessary in something like this.

It's going to challenge you somewhere, whether it's the temperature, like you mentioned, Justin with the diving through the freezing cold water or being uncomfortable, crawling under Bob wire or whatever it may be or the endurance of just the race. There's definitely something that's going to challenge you mentally and I think that we just, we lack that today in today's times.

Well, I just think it's so valid. Just individually, when the shit hits the fan, are you gonna crumble? Like I just feel like it's a life skill. Like this is something that, you know, you definitely can get elements of that within the gym, like you can go in there and just, you know, the consistency

and the way that you're building your body and, you know, being resilient, you know, that's part of it, but this is one of those where the intensity of it is definitely higher. Well, for me, this is new for me to think like this, being a father now, which is another reason why I'm kind of more pro all of this, is I'm constantly now thinking about the phone

and the TV and computers and being around my son all the time and you know, I don't want him to see dad doing all that. I don't want him to have bad behaviors. And I can't help but think about, you know, Spartan and OCR and Tough Mudder and these obstacle course races. And I think, man, and I love that they're actually doing it for kids also.

I don't know if you guys know that, but all of them have like a little mini version for all the kids to do. I love that. It's multi-generational. And it's in, you know, what a great thing to teach my son in the early years. So let him play with some of that adversity

and feel that at an early age, which I can see really how easily you can as a parent right now, you know, turn to the Netflix and chill or the iPads or the iPhones to be the babysitter. And you have no idea what you're training your kid, you're training them to be soft. And so I see a lot of value in this for me for, man, when that time comes

that I can get him involved in something like this for the mental toughness. And if he faces that or goes through something like that with his dad and experiences that at a very young age, then it'll be probably much easier for him to make that mental toughness connection in other parts of his life. And it's important to understand that all these attributes that we're listing are things you can train to improve upon.

And mental toughness is one of those things that you can definitely train to improve upon. And one of the ways you train to improve upon is And mental toughness is one of those things that you can definitely train to improve upon. And one of the ways you train to improve upon is you can, you challenge it. You consistently and constantly challenge it. And just like anything else, like if I want to get stronger, I challenge my strength. It gets a little better. And then I challenge it more. Same thing with mental toughness. Do great point. You know, and something about that too, there's a right way to do that. And there's a wrong way to do that. and there's a wrong way to do that.

Just like anything else. And you break yourself, you're not gonna get more mentally tough, become more mentally tough. I'm so glad you brought that up, so because there's a fine line between training for mental toughness and making a martyr of yourself. And so I think that's where what happens sometimes

is people understand that, especially like, and I know Justin can identify with this, like with sports. Like you know when you're a high school football kid, like your coach tries to instill this in you, this mental toughness, this grit. And sometimes that understanding of mental toughness and grit can be taken too far to where it becomes,

you just punish yourself every single time you're in the gym. And then that actually ends up being adverse, right? It ends up being town common. Counter productive because you think that you're chasing the mental toughness and grit so much that you're actually overreaching too much and you're actually setting yourself back more than you're taking steps forward.

So there is a very, there's a fine line between how do I stretch myself to actually get that mental toughness, but then I actually don't hurt myself or take a step back physically. Just like in line exists where it's still benefiting me and it's not taking me out of that. Absolutely, just like anything else. Now, let's talk about grip.

Just then you touched upon this. When interviewing top OCR racers, Amelia Boone, good friend of ours, love her, talk to her, talk to other friends of ours who race in these races. Oh, you remember the first time you shook Ben Greenfield's hands? Oh, yeah, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like what's one of the reasons why people fail at these races? Like what tends to be the weakest link? And it's their hands, it's grip. And if you look at these obstacles, you realize why. There's a lot of hanging and swinging and climbing involved.

And if your hands aren't strong enough to handle it, you're dead. You could have all the endurance in the world and all the other physical strength, but your hands fail, you are totally done. And it reminds me of when I would compete in judo or jujitsu or wrestling. And it's like, you could have all the stamina and strength,

but once your grip was gone, you had nothing. Because it's what connects you to everything else. It's interesting too. I can't help but think how fascinating that is that they had the awareness way back when when they first were doing this to make grip strength a challenge, right? That that would be the limiting factor for all of the people.

And we've talked, we just recently did an episode the other day about how that's a great indicator of somebody's strength. Overall strength. Yeah. How well that they have their grip strength. It's what connects you to the world. And if you can't hold something, you can't lift it. That's just the bottom line.

It doesn't matter how strong the rest of your body is. If the thing that holds it is too weak, then you can't lift it. It's literally the thing that connects us to everything. And so it makes sense that these obstacle course races would challenge our modern baby hand grips. I mean, what do we do with our hands nowadays? The heart, we don't even open windows anymore in cars.

Remember car windows? I can't wind tendo them and I cry. Yeah, exactly. Remember car windows we had to turn the knob or whatever? I feel like people would gas out trying to do that nowadays. Bro, we don't even lift weights like we used to lift weights. That's right.

If you look at it, and I hate to say, because I do like a lot of them and stuff like that, but we've even tried to make lifting weights easier with the Versa grips, the wrist wraps, the bars that contour to your hands, and stuff like that. So we've even made like the lifting so much easier

by eliminating the hands having to do most of work. And you have no idea how crippling that is. One of the pursuits of having good grip strength. One of the ways you can always tell if somebody's physically tough, and I don't mean just strong and fit and all that stuff, I mean, physically tough. Like somebody has actually tested their body in the real world. You just got to look at their hands. Man or woman, just look at the hands.

Go shake the hand of a farmer from Iowa or go shake the hand of a brick layer who's been working with their hands for a long time. And you'll see what I'm talking about. It's like you're holding a different, it's like a different species of hand. It's tougher, it's thicker, it's stronger, and it's got way more stamina. And it's got way more stamina in its hands.

And I'm gonna tell you something right now, if you wanna race and do well, and that hurt yourself in an obstacle course race, you better have strong hands. But what about for other people? What about for people who are like, like I don't care about obstacle course racing, I just wanna get fit in the gym.

Strong hands makes a big difference. Strong hands will allow you to lift more weight. It'll allow you to control and connect to better muscles and the exercises that you're doing. It'll improve your mobility. It'll reduce the, one of the more common complaints nowadays of chronic pain involves the risks in the elbows and the elbows being the top of the forearm muscles

that connect. People's hands are just weak to weak period, but if you're going to do an OCR race, you better get strong hands or you're dead. Oh, any little inclination of uncertainty that signals the body that, oh, well, I don't know if I could really support this and it's not a super firm grip, your body's not going to produce as much force and as much power to lift that weight. So if anything, it's a massive performance enhancement. That's right. Now, here's, we talked about martial arts earlier.

Classic martial arts that, you know, when they were teaching a fight and they would train without gloves, classic karate is a good example, certain forms of kung fu, they placed a lot of emphasis on hand, strength and toughness, a lot. Now the reason why they did this is because they don't work gloves. Now oftentimes you'll see someone who's boxer and boxers have phenomenal punching power, phenomenal technique, some of the best strikers in the world are boxers. But you watch a boxer get in a street fight and what they often do, break their hand, first punch, because they're constantly training with gloves on, they have everything taped and wrapped up.

So hands are extremely important. Bruce Lee always talked about how strong your hands and grip need to be because it's, it made you a more effective human being. So I think we've made the point that you got to have good grip toughness. Now I have a story that's going to illustrate illustrate what I wanna cover next with obstacle horse racing. I remember going to work with my dad as a teenager. I would go to work with him as a kid, and as I got older, he would take me every summer.

And what? I thought I could tell this story. Probably. It might be one of the stories. I've told a lot of these stories. This is the cement mixing story. Well, no, it's not that one. Oh shit, okay, no, no, no, no.

But that's a good example exemplify this as well. But as a kid, I was, you know, 16 or 17 years old, I've already been lifting weights now for a few years. Pretty strong kid. At the age of 16, 17, I can deadlift 400 pounds. I have a 200 pound bench rest. I'm a pretty strong kid at this point, but I've been training for a long time.

And I go to work with my dad, and he would just destroy me on things like swinging a hammer, carrying buckets of cement. He would have a trowel with a big pile of cement on it, and he'd fling it on the wall, and I would just fatigue so quickly. And I'd watch my dad do this stuff, and he would just destroy me and kill me. And I knew it wasn't because he was necessarily strong or the meal, although my dad was very strong, it was just, there was something else. And I remember talking to my dad about this, and my dad looked at me and says,

you don't have the skill. You don't have the technique or the skill. And I remember being mind-blowing, like, oh, of course, he does this all the time. He has incredible skill. If you want to do good in obstacle horse racing, you got to get good at the skills of obstacle horse racing. So you can be really strong, great grip strength, lots of endurance, stamina and toughness. But if you don't have the skill of climbing a wall or the skill of running

or the skill of carrying things or crawling or whatever, you're probably not going to do very well. The kick of your body can recognize how to navigate in those situations, then obviously, yeah, that requires an education of the skill that, of going through that. So it has to, you have to introduce that quite frequently. Right, right. So part of your training should be in practicing and strengthening skills that you're going to be, you know, incorporating in your obstacle course racing. That means you'll need to practice carrying things, hanging from things, you need to practice running, at different speeds, at sprints, at angles,

so that you can become a better racer. Now, for somebody who is not interested in doing obstacle course race, well, all of these practicing of skills is novelty. And how many times have we talked about on the show that just changing the novelty gets the body to or or or introducing novel ways of doing the same stuff. Oh yeah. Just get the monster stimulus could take you out of whatever, you know, sort of rut or plateau or wherever you are currently, it may propel you forward.

Absolutely. I feel like that story also highlights with your dad durability. Oh yeah. Because that's it. with your dad durability. Oh yeah. Because that's another attribute. And honestly, this is something that, this was something that I feel like Justin really introduced to me as a personal trainer. Like, of course I understand durability, but never did I have a client like come to me

and be like, I wanna be more durable item and I go, okay, let me write you a program and I had to be more durable. And I never had to really do that. And maybe that's because I didn't train as many athletes as probably Justin did. And that's definitely something that an athlete would be looking for.

And so when him and I started working out more together and he was the one that kind of really introduced me to exercises like farmer carries and stuff like that. And he would be constantly telling me like, do this, you want durability? Like this is, you want to train exercise like this. And you people see a movement like that and we get asked all the time,

like, well, what muscles are you working when you do farmer carries or what muscles are they for because we're so trained to think like the body builder mentality, but nobody talks about the benefits of durability and the carryover that that has to overall strengths and aesthetics and performance. And that to me is something that.

And you're talking about literally, your body is more durable. This is different than mental toughness, I think they're connected. Yes, but there's literally that, I could go and do a bunch of physical stuff and not hurt myself. And I could do it again the next day.

That's durable. It's no different than buying a product that's durable. Like a pair of shoes that's durable. Like you can run and walk of them long distance and they still look new after using them for a few months or whatever. Yeah, it's sort of a different mentality than you think of typical cardio versus

like just carrying something for a long period of time. You know, like, and I know some people have also coined it as like work capacity, like building up your work capacity, your engine. So you just have this constant motor, this gasoline-fueled motor, that you could just barrel through whatever, you know, sort of obstacles in your way.

And so that's a totally different mentality. What do you think, would you guys break it down? Like, that's a lot more of the central nervous system that's being touched on, because you're having to do something that's strenuous, carrying a big old heavy bucket of sand for a mile or whatever like that. Like sure, that bucket of sand isn't super, super heavy

for you, but it's heavy enough to be challenging and then to carry it over a long period of time. What do you think that is? You think that's the, almost like you're training endurance for the central nervous system, like how would you explain the science that would explain durability or work capacity?

I would say it has to do with a lot of factors. I think that's part of it is having a CNS that has been trained well enough to be able to adapt and not crash when being stressed out. There's also technique that's involved, carrying that bucket of sand. If you carry it in the wrong way,

you're gonna rip skin off of your wrists and you're stomach after it's resting on your body. So you have better technique. Well, technique promotes efficiency. Yeah, so like going through that, yeah. You learn ways of being more efficient, the longer you kind of going through that, yeah, you learn ways of being more efficient. The longer you kind of go through that process, it becomes more clear that if I just move

my body at this angle, it relieves a lot of stress and tension within the muscles and joints. Right. I just think of it like this, like you could be a guy who trains and he's, I mean, he could snatch 300 and something pounds and he could do it explosively fast, and he does it a bunch of times in a workout. And that same guy could break down carrying a bucket of sand for one mind. Right, because it's different, right? And I guess I'm trying to get to how I can simplify this

for the audience to kind of get an understanding of, it's not the same thing, right? There's a different, a different, not a different modality, but a different adaptation that you are chasing after. I think it's hard, it's gonna be hard to quantify because I feel like it's so many different things that contribute to it, but it's much more simple

to explain in terms of training. Like how do you make yourself more durable? You test your durability. You test your durability in appropriate ways and slowly improve your body, just like you would for strength, stamina, speed, or anything else. You just slowly test.

I guess maybe another, I'm really trying to wrap my brain around making this easy for you. And what I'm picturing it now too, with durability comes kind of challenging multiple systems. Right? So if I'm gonna carry a bucket of sand for a mile, it requires strength. It requires mental toughness, stability, stability. It kind of encompasses everything,

right? Maybe that's what maybe that's really what is it. That makes a lot of sense because if you're just tons of endurance, but you're weak, you're not going to be very durable, right? Well, really strong with no endurance, you're also not that durable. Yeah, I wonder, I'm terrible with analogies, but I wonder if this is gonna fly. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah.

No, I'm thinking of like a diesel truck, something that has a lot of torque, but it has the ability to travel along this is might not go super, super fast, but it just, it has the ability to work through with lots of load versus like another car that's built like four gas efficiency or four speed, just pure power.

Well, that's what I think it is. It's all the attributes that we're talking about right now over time. Right, like it's the distance. It's like, it's all the attributes that we've gone over. It's the grip strength, it's the stamina. It's the endurance. It's the overall strength. It's all of those mental toughness over time or over distance. Right? It's the combination of all of those. Right. I think and that's all I was trying to do because you

hear durability and we can throw that around all day long, but your average person like, what the fuck is that? How do I train for that inside the gym? And it is, and I'm thinking to my head, what exercises in my programming when I do that? And I'm using farmer carriers, because that's an easy one that most people know what that is. And think about that. That's mental toughness there, that's grip there,

that's strength there, that's endurance there, that's stamina there, and they're all being trained at one time and your central nervous system. All those things, all those attributes that we're talking about that are important to be in a good Spartan racer or OCR racer, those things are important. I think durability is the example of all of them being challenged at once for time or distance. Great explanation. Yeah.

One thing that I love about different types of physical pursuits is when I observe the athletes that perform well in those physical pursuits, you see kind of a difference in the look. Like you can see what those physical first you can see what kind of genetics lend themselves well to whatever particular sport or physical pursuit. But then you also see what kind of a physique it develops. You know what I'm saying? Like if you swim a lot, your body tends to develop differently than if you run a lot or you bike a lot or if you do body building a lot or powerlifting a lot, you tend to develop kind of a different looking body.

Now genetics play a big role in this, but I think it's safe to say that training for a particular sport, you're trying to change your body to move in the ideal way, and that has a corresponding look. Wouldn't you guys agree? Well, I would say OCR training is one of those things that I think most people that are probably doing it are not signing up. And this is why I think that I originally didn't

like the idea of it was, I thought I was getting asked clients that, is this the best way to get in physical shape for a look, like looking a certain way? I don't think most people that sign up for an OCR like, hey, I want to compete on stage or I want to have a men's physique type of a look and so I'm going to sign up for OCR. I think the cool part about training for OCR

is that if you are training this way as a side effect, you're going to have a pretty damn good looking physique because of the attributes it requires to be good at it. You have a very balanced look to your body. It tends to be, you're going to develop some muscle, not a ton, so you'll have less muscle, more athletic, good muscularity, good athletic physique for sure. Yes, good leanness, kind of this well overall developed physique. You can see it when you see someone like Ben Greenfield racing, not overly muscular, lean.

You know, you could see the muscles are developed. You could see that the stamina is there. You just, I would say a good OCR racer, ideally kind of looks like a good, well-rounded athlete. You just kind of look well developed everywhere. And the able body. And this is, I know, this is one of the other reasons why I think it's popular. I think people look at it and go, that's what I want to look at, look like, their form and a train in that particular way. And I can't blame them, you know, it's training for OCR has to be the most, I would say,

balanced form of training in terms of physical attributes that I can almost think of, right? You're kind of doing it all with your training. I mean, and not to like bring a whole new topic in, but it's fun. It's something that's totally outside of the box. You're literally outside. You're climbing, you're doing things

that are just like outside of your normal experience, like even in the gym setting, that can be somewhat mundane. And this is something that's like, whoa, I can do all these like new, fun, cool things. Yeah, now here's one of the challenges. One of the challenges is, I would get people who'd say, hey, I wanna prepare my body for an obstacle course race. And I would always ask, just like,

if you're a trainer, you always ask this question, right? Like, okay, what are your goals? What's your training history? And then what kind of equipment do you have access to? Because if you have a massive obstacle course in your backyard, like Ben Greenfield does, I would say, go practice your obstacle course race in the backyard.

And unfortunately, that's super inconvenient for most people. Most people just don't have that kind of access, but most people do have access to a gym. And so, you know, this is something that we thought a lot about. It's like how would you train using the kind of equipment most people that have access to? How would you use that equipment to get ready for something as specific as an obstacle course race?

Or how would you train your body to look like you're gonna do an obstacle course race? It's actually really not that hard. I mean, what we did was we just listed off all the important attributes. And then we even gave some examples of what some exercise would be like that. I think the key would be how you program it and you train it.

Totally. is learning to phase it and focus on specific adaptations within the program. That. Okay. Right now, the exercise or the section or the phase or the day that I'm working through is focused on endurance today or at this moment. And then I'm going to be moving over to something that's challenging mental toughness. And then I'm going to be moving over to something that's challenging my grip strength.

Like, so what you do is you just, you are going to into program exercises that are going to target those specific adaptations that you want for being a great obstacle course racer instead of just You know what I think the tend to people tend to lean towards if you if you don't understand how to program that or or trying to figure out And it's just like like what I see happening when because I have you know friends and family members that have done obstacle course racing and You know, this is part of the motivation behind a lot of this is, you know, I've had a lot of these people that are really close to me that actually aren't really into working out at all, but we're really excited about obstacle course racing and then decide they're going to get in shape for it. And their way of doing that is go to the gym, run a lot and do circuits, you know, just

a bunch of circuits. Like I'm just going to do, which is probably better than nothing. Oh, absolutely. It's not great. It's not great. There's a much better way to approach it. Much better way. Now, we did this. We actually got together with obstacle course racing champion, Amelia Boone, and we

wrote a program called Maps OCR. But for the listeners listening right now, I'd like to talk a little bit about what they can do on their own in the gym to kind of help themselves out. And Adam talked a little bit about training specifically for strength or training for stamina, training for mobility. I want to start with mobility. This is an important one now. Mobility is important for any physical pursuit. It's especially important for obstacle course racing because the number one thing that prevents people from doing well with obstacle course racing or the number one thing that stops people from training for an obstacle course race is injuring.

And so staying healthy. Mobility is super important if you're going to prepare yourself for an obstacle course race, or you just want to work out and look like someone who's going to do an obstacle course race. Get better, do a mobility. This is exactly how we actually got connected and met Amelia, is we both have the same mobility specialist that helps us out. Oh, Dr. Justin Brink. I mean, that's how we actually got connected and met Amelia is we both have the same mobility specialist that helps us out. Oh Dr. Justin Brink. I mean that's how we got connected. That's originally how we got connected to Amelia was we were when we

were first meeting Brink and we were going to see him and he was really schooling us on a lot of this. It was the same time he was already helping Amelia and that was that was and that was he had to do that in order for her to be successful at the level that she's been successful for because the amount of racing, the amount that she's, the level that she's competing at. But you're just stretching your body, the range is a motion that you're in,

the different angles, nothing is perfect. When you're racing in an obstacle course race, it's not perfect for. You're not in the gym working out when you're racing, you obstacle course race. It's not perfect form. You're not in the gym working out when you're racing. You're climbing a wall, you're slipping on the ground, you're going underneath stuff that, there is no such thing as perfect formant. You're getting through the best you can,

and good mobility dramatically reduces the risk of injury, and increases and improves your performance because you have great arranges of motion that you control. Now, here's another one. Strength. Strength is, now I know you watched someone racing like what do you mean strength? Oh yeah, you got to climb stuff,

but you need a lot of stamina endurance. No, you got to get this straight here. Strength is the physical pursuit that contributes to all the other physical pursuits. It's the foundation. I don't care how much stamina endurance, toughness you have. If you're weak, you're not making it past the first obstacle.

It's just ain't happening. You need to have strength because it makes you stable. It gives you better endurance. It gives you better stamina. It's going to give you better mobility. So you should have, now your whole workout shouldn't revolve all around strength, but you better have at least one of the components in there.

Yes, one or two days a week of good general strength training needs to be implemented in your routine. The truth is it still should be the bulk of it. I mean, when you think about the attributes that we covered and like to your point style, that the one that actually carries over to all of them is strength. Yeah, it gets strong. So at the end of the day, and I always like to use, especially like, okay, you think of someone like, oh, you see them doing pull ups and monkey bars, so that's how you think, oh, monkey bars and pull ups, that's gonna be so important.

So I'm only gonna do tons of that stuff. You know, I see this every time I deadlift, right? One of my favorite things to do is to go do pull ups after I've done fucking heavy deadlifts. I've deadlift four, 500 pounds. And you know how easy and light pull ups feel after you've ripped 400 pounds up off the ground? It's insane.

If I go walk up to a pull up bar and I just go jump up and I grab and I go to pull up, it's a bit of a struggle. I mean, pull ups are challenging for most people to do period. After I've got myself strong enough to pull 400 pounds up off the ground, pull-ups feel extremely light. So the value of strength training to carry over into all the other attributes and pursuits in obstacle course racing, I think is. You better have a strength component.

You need to have some kind of a running component. You just do obstacle course races involve running. The race typically starts with the run. You have to run in between obstacles. If you suck at running, you're terrible at it and you have bad stamina with running, you're going to have a tough time doing well in the race. You'll get to your next obstacle, totally gas exhausted, maybe hurt, and you're not going to do very well. But it's not just, so if you're doing this on your own, it's not just go out and run a long distance. That's definitely better than nothing.

No, I want to be a little more specific about this. Because I actually had to, before we created a map, so CR, I actually was giving my brother-in-law and my buddies, like instructions on what they should be doing in the gym. And one of the things that I had to get from them was I needed to go to figure out what race you're doing. So whether it be Tough Mudder, Spartan or whatever organization, you can look up and see

the distance between each obstacle. So if the total distance of the race, so if the total distance of the race, let's just say is a total of eight miles and it's broken up in four sections. So you're never gonna be running more than a mile or two at a time. And I believe the sprint, you don't even ever run more than a mile. It's like half a mile usually, right?

So it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to train too long of a distance and you don't wanna go so short of a distance, you wanna mirror what they're doing. So I would have them run those in those, in those blocks. So, if it was a mile, a mile run in between obstacles, I would have him do mile runs and try and improve his mile runs since that's what he's going to be doing in life, right? Right, right.

Yeah, and if there's elevation, you know, consider factors like that, consider like if you can and there's accessibility to trails outside, you know, doing it out in the elements, that's another thing that you could have a little more specificity as you're going to plan for your first race. You also need to be able to break your running up with some type of an obstacle of some sort or mimic some type of an obstacle. Not just running, it's like running, now you have to try or running and now you have to carry something. Which, the now you have to carry something,

which the interesting part when Amelia was describing it was she used a lot of the running as part of the recovery. And so it was totally different mentality using the cardiovascular component. Yes, that's such a great point. Like the best racers, the run is where they kind of gather themselves, gather their mental fortitude and their stamina,

and then they go and do the obstacles. So that's also very, very important. Here's another thing that's very important. We talked a lot about durability and mental toughness. You need to start creating daily practices that you do for yourself to toughen your body up. Now one thing that we incorporated, which is so simple, which I'm gonna share with you right now

that you can do on your own, that I think is phenomenal, is start to take cold showers. Start to get your body used to, every day, get used to acclimating to the cold, because let me tell you something right now, if you're used to your air condition in warm house, and you're working out hard, not that stuff, but you're not used to the cold,

and you go on this, and you jump in some freezing-ass water. Shale-shale. You're done, your body won't move. You're frozen, you can't move, and it takes the breath out of your lungs. It takes your breath away. You would be, you know, boxers talk about this like, you know, one good hard hit to the,

you know, one good hard punch and they lose 50% of the stamina. That happens to people when they're not able to acclimate to the temperature. Like you can be super fit, but you hit some cold elements or something or something too hot and you're gone. There goes your endurance, there goes your stamina, there goes all the physical attributes you're trained for, you're screwed. You should have some kind of a daily toughening attribute, maybe burpees or something in the

morning. That's something else we put in maps, OCR, cold showers and nothing. You want some daily practices because really the only way to toughen yourself up your workouts will do some of this too Right, but the other way that's gonna help you a lot is to do something every day because that daily practice is what makes you tougher because you're practicing it so often Here's another thing that I'll say and this we also included in our program Test yourself out a little bit every Every few weeks because you should give yourself ample time to prepare for an OCR race by the way Don't be one of those people that's like cool. I'm gonna sign up for one in four weeks

Not a good idea High chance you may hurt yourself or at the very least you're just not gonna perform very well and not have a good experience That's such a good point because this is actually more common than not. So that this happens where someone decides they're, you know, somewhat kind of training or they're going to do an obstacle course race. And then the first time they've actually even challenged their body and anything similar to that is that day. Is the right.

Yeah. Which is also something I saw in competing that always blew my mind too in the bodybuilding world, even in immense physique. I would have lots of practice weeks of what the diet would look like, what training would look like leading up to the stage before I actually got on the stage. Like I did not. You got to be ready.

Yeah. And so I think in something where it's performance-based, it's even more important. You have some sort of a practice or a test or something that mimics something similar to it. You don't have to actually literally go out and do an exact looking race, but if you know what types of obstacles are there, you know how long it is, you know about how long it should take you or you want it to take you, you know, you should have some sort of a test that you kind of revisit simulation where you can do your mimic it. And test yourself, like every few weeks, test yourself and push yourself to that limit

and get that mental toughness. Now, in the weeks that you do this, you probably want to scale back the rest of your workouts because you will challenge yourself quite a bit. And also take note of the kind of weight that these organizations will require your lift. I know Spartan has like a number, like men have to lift 35 pounds

or something like that in that women 20 or whatever. So look at that so you can practice with the weight that they tell you to do. Well, didn't we in the in this program, we had Amelia actually go through everything that if you're a first time. Oh yeah, that's all the uncertainties going into your first rate are pretty much dispeled in this section of Amelia's coaching. Well, look, here's a deal. With Maps OCR, it's all broken down.

It's all written out and planned out for you. It's 12 weeks to get you from regular gym fitness person to ready for an obstacle course race. It includes all the stuff that we're talking about and more in detail. So there's daily practices. There are workouts around strength, around stamina endurance. There's test weeks, all with videos and breaking down form and explaining everything for you.

And then what you guys are referring to, Amelia Boone, who's decorated, she's a very decorated champion. There's many videos where she actually breaks down all the questions like, what do I do on the day of the race? And what do I expect? What do I wear? What do I wear? What's the best technique?

This is something that she taught us that I thought was fascinating. When you're swinging across like the monkey bar, you know, which is typically one of the obstacles involves you having to go across some kind of monkey bars. Her technique was she goes, you're way faster if you keep your elbows bent. So instead of swinging down with your arms straight,

keep them bent and go from bar to bar. And she's absolutely right. Go test this out yourself. Now, you have to have a decent amount of strength. You should practice it, but you'll go much faster. So she goes and she talks about all these different things. What to expect? She also talks about the differences between the different organizations because each organization has a different emphasis, like some are going to emphasize more on endurance, other more- Obstacles and how to kind of like wrap your brain around the best techniques to apply, you know, for certain scenarios like that.

So yeah, she went into great detail on a lot of these subjects. Yes, and look, at the end of the day, training to be fit enough to do an obstacle course race will look like a very balanced fitness routine. Now we talk all the time about if you had to pick one form of training, you should pick resistance training if you can only work out two days a week or three days a week. But if you have some time to work out four or five days a week, and you want to have a

balanced fitness profile and physique, then you want to incorporate a lot of different things in your training. And to be quite frank and honest Most average people find that the most fun. They find it most fun when they can do all those different things So I hope this episode helps people out kind of construct that for themselves But if you want something specific we've planned it out. We wrote it out. We created an entire program Well, this is probably this is probably when you talk about the fun and unique and challenging This is probably the most fun and unique program that we'd ever written. I mean, I had a really good time piecing this one together.

We had a really good time when we did strong, too, because that was so different. But this is even, I mean, with the daily practices in there, with Amelia's coaching tips in there, we have, first time we've ever done tests inside of a program, it's broken up and phased. I'm excited to see what people, how they share their times, because the tests allow you to test yourself and see what your times are.

It'll be cool to see people even just getting competitive to see. Oh, I imagine our form is gonna get crazy with that. You'll start seeing everybody posting what their times are on the test. Yeah, and there's a competitive element that we add in there with that. So this is of all the programs we've done,

I think this is probably one of the more fun and unique programs that we've development, that we added in there with that. So this one, this is of all the programs we've done, I think this is probably one of the more fun and unique programs that we've created so far. And so I'm pretty excited. I'm excited. And we did, there's two things we also did. We also created exercise substitutions for people who don't go to a gym. Yeah.

You just have bands and dumbbells. You could prepare yourself for an obstacle course race at home. So we also put it so that we may give you the best shot of doing this without gym access. And we also put a pre-phase for people who haven't been working out. So literally you could follow this program. If you're otherwise healthy, no major injuries or pain, and you're not super, super out of shape, but you're just not working out, you could take this program, start and pre-phase and go from couch to race.

So you could actually take yourself from normal everyday guy or girl, start this program, start and pre-phase, it's 14 weeks if you start from pre-phase and from beginning to end, including the tests, you will be ready for your first, or you should be ready for your first obstacle course race following this program. If you wanna get maps OCR by the way,

here's what you do, go to mapsocr.com and we have a discount for you because we're releasing this program, it's brand new. We're gonna give you a big discount on the program. It's $30 off the retail price. So the code is OCR30, but that's not all. We're also gonna hook you guys up with some more stuff. We're gonna give you a free Maps OCR t-shirt

and the first 150 people to enroll in this program so they hooked up with some good or glasses. You get some good or glasses. Those are the glasses that sponsor a million-boon. They're great durable glasses. They look good. You'll get free glasses, free t-shirt, $30 off. Maps OCR, hopefully you do this now when you listen to this episode when it drops

Because I think it'll they'll sell out very very quickly again. It's maps OCR dot com and the code is OCR 30 and then again you can find us on Instagram at Mind pump media or mind pump atom mind pump Justin mind pumps out Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and

performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump!