Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1200: Max Schmarzo

Episode Date: January 6, 2020

1200: Max Schmarzo How to read a research paper as a ‘layman’. (3:52) What is the significance of the sample size? (9:53) What do controls mean? (13:15) What are meta-analyses and why are they important? (16:00) Understanding how adaptation falls into a study. (17:53) The different forms of adaptation. (21:10) The currency stress takes on the body. (24:08) The thin line between safety vs progress. (26:03) Why when we read the research it’s never, WE KNOW, it’s WE KNOW the researchers THINK this might be it. (27:07) What are the differences between recovery and adaptation? (29:30) Inflammation: The good and the bad. (34:53) Popular recovery tools: The benefits, who they are good for & MORE. (45:18) Sauna: The exercise mimicking modality. (45:32) Cold Therapy: The phycological modality. (52:00) Glutamine and Lucine. (55:30) BCAA’s. (57:16) Creatine. (59:36) What supplements and recovery tools does he implement into his life? (1:05:25) Heart Rate Variability (HRV) 101: The check engine light for your autonomic nervous system. (1:12:09) What is in the pipeline business-wise? (1:20:13) Featured Guest/People Mentioned Max Schmarzo (ATC/CSCS/MS) (@strong_by_science)  Instagram Website Podcast Chase Phelps MS, RSCC (@_chasephelps)  Instagram Wim Hof (@iceman_hof)  Instagram Brian Mackenzie (@_brianmackenzie)  Instagram Paul J. Fabritz (@pjfperformance)  Instagram The EdgeU (@theedgeu)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned January Promotion: MAPS HIIT ½ off! **Code “HIIT50” at checkout** Mind Pump 1017: Max Schmarzo- Strong by Science WHOOP - The World's Most Powerful Fitness Membership The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training. Visit Infrared Sauna for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Regular sauna users may have fewer chronic diseases Creatine phosphate shuttle Philips Wake-Up Light Alarm Clock with Sunrise Simulation, White THE BURDEN OF CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE IN NEW YORK http://theedgeu.com/ Human Kinetics – Physical Activity and Health Publisher

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND,MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, strength coach, and product developer is also the host of the awesome fitness podcast called Strong by Science. In this episode we talk all about all kinds of things related to adaptation, recovery. Now we start out by talking about studies, like how to read them, what's important to look at when you're looking at a study, and how do you break it down to see if it's actually

applicable to you? We talk about the difference between recovery and adaptation. We talk about inflammation, the good and the bad. We talk a lot about recovery in this episode, where we talk about different recovery tools like ice baths, amino acids, supplements like creatine. We had a great discussion all along heat therapy, like sauna use and its potential benefits and how to use it properly.

We really think you're going to enjoy this episode. Now speaking of sauna, we work with a sauna company that produces some of the best saunas you can get for personal use at home. Clearlight the best saunas you can get for personal use at home. Clearlight, infrared saunas. Now, a lot of you may not know this, but saunas help you bounce back from hard workouts. They do help accelerate recovery. The benefits that many people have experienced include reduced inflammation,

less joint pain, relaxation, mental clarity, and focus. Max talks about in this episode how sonnas are mimicking exercise on the body. So this may be why some people get health benefits from son of use, like improved strength and maybe even fat loss. It's a great part of a health and performance recovery protocol, basically any fitness athlete or people who are really committed to Being healthy and of course Is it any time is a good time to get invested in a sauna, but right now is probably the best It's right around holiday season. So probably a good time to get Yourself a sauna the company that we work with is one of our sponsors

So we do have a connection for you as a Mind Pump listener. If you go to infraredsana.com forward slash Mind Pump, you can get up to $600 off your purchase of a sauna if you mention Mind Pump. Now, as far as Max is concerned, you can find him on the Strong by Science podcast. You can find him on Instagram at Strong underscore by underscore science or at the edge U.

That's the letter U. And then the website you can find him and his information at is strong by science.net. Now before the episode starts, I want to remind everybody that this month Maps hit is 50% off. Now Maps hit is a full workout program designed around high intensity interval training done the right way.

Now, a hit training has been shown in studies to burn more body fat than other forms of training. It's a, in a very effective fat burning type of workout, but you got to do it the right way. Doing hit wrong isn't going to give you better results. So in maps hit, we give you workouts out some blueprints we give you exercise demos There's three levels in maps it for people to start with and and progress towards now that whole program is 50% off Here's how you get your discount go to maps hit dot com that's m a ps h i i t

So there's two eyes dot com and use the code hit 50 that's h i i-P-S-H-I-I-T, so there's two eyes, dot com and use the code hit 50, that's H-I-I-T 50, no space for the discount. Right before we got on the mics, we are actually talking about just research in general. And we now, because of social media, live in this world of absolutes, like, you know, oh, because of this study, we're certain that this must be true.

And the truth is that we don't actually know as much as we allude to or think we know, especially, I think, on the higher performance level type topics, especially the direction that I want to go with you today, because we get a lot of questions around recovery. And what is the most optimal way to recovery or all these recovery tools and supplements that are out there, what are best to take, or what's the best protocol after lifting? Should I?

Should I not? Should I add heat? Should I not? Yeah, my favorite of the studies that show, this group of people did this recovery thing, and they showed marked reduction in, you know, CK levels or mark reduction in inflammation. They're, and then people make the conclusion, it's better.

It doesn't really work that way, not necessarily. It's really confusing because if you look at, well, let's talk about research first. Yeah, so when you look at research, it's not of, we know, if I'm the consumer, it's, I know what researchers think. And so if you've ever read a research paper, the conclusion portion is not the concluding statement of all things in that research. It is merely a way to label what the authors concluding

statements are. So when say, oh, the conclusions says, you know, this is the best, no. They are wrapping it up as a reader you can consume it. It makes it easier for us. And by doing so, the researchers accidentally gave us the power to just assume that that means that they were correct or absolute in a very finite kind of answer.

But really, if you read a research paper, and this might actually be pretty interesting for your audience too, there's a way to read a research paper as a layman. So if you're a layman, like, if you're person who's not super versed in all the literature and you wanna pick up a research paper and read it,

there's a way I go about doing it that I think works for a lot of people. You read the abstract to see, is this something I even wanna read about? Now what are you looking for in the abstract? Just of interest, you can read a title for all I care. I just want you to see if you'll actually continue reading. Okay.

Because sometimes you might pick up a paper and you look at it and you go, oh, you know, muscle protein synthesis. Ooh, this is up my alley. And then you read the abstract in one of the methods and they talk about muscle protein synthesis rates at molecular levels and you go, well, I don't know what it means.

So maybe I shouldn't or maybe I want to learn more about it. So if you want to learn more about it, then read the introduction because the introduction is like a many lit review for the consumer to kind of get their bearing as to what's gonna come next. And that they've referenced key studies that their paper is building off of. So if you

read a paper, say about jumping, we'll just talk about that, easy understand, does squatty and help me jump high. They might reference a paper that doing ballistic movements increases type two fiber types. And in that, you go, I don't really know what a type two fiber is, but obviously it's important for this paper. They'll reference it. So you actually might have to read more papers before you get to finish to read that paper because you don't understand the literature background. It sets up then their hypothesis at the very end of the introduction. We think doing X might lead to this outcome. But in that, it's all based on the previous literature review that they kind of laid before

you. So if you're just a consumer, go read the introduction and find cool papers or citations that you're not really aware of or don't know what they mean. So you can go dive a little bit deeper to understand the context in which the researchers framing the question. Isn't that really important, too, to know whether or not they cherry-picked studies to actually form their hypothesis or conclusion. It is important, but that's more important for the discussion.

So you can cherry-pig to an extent, I don't want to say, I'll say that loosely, studies, because you say, look, these studies are supporting that this hypothesis might be correct. And they might actually present the counterargument. There's some studies that say it probably not going to be correct, but we think maybe it will be. So we have our introduction. The introduction doesn't give you the concluding statements as a kind of use of the intro. Skip the methods unless you're versed in it. That's where people get confused. Oh, I don't understand, you know, certain type two muscle fiber staining properties and how they measure

muscle fibers. I don't understand how they extract mitochondria to measure biogenesis and AMPK levels and whatnot. Cool. Skip it. But if it has an easy figure to understand, go read it. Like a correlation or sometimes things that are really easy to digest can give you a little bit of guidance. But as a layman, it's going to be hard for you to understand the specific methods, especially of molecular studies on how certain things are done., because they'll say, oh, this was silver staining properties. You're like, oh, silver's involved on what the hell's going on here. Oh, it's so kind of staining. Yeah, that's no idea.

So it's very easy to get lost in the stop. So I said, okay, read the abstract, read the introduction, what doesn't make sense? Then you can actually, you can do one, two things, you can skip to the conclusion, read that. Okay, this is what they kind of found. Then go back into the discussion, knowing what they found,

because you didn't understand the results and methods maybe, because it's statistics and confusing stuff that you might not be familiar with. Cool. Read the conclusion, because that kind of summarizes the key results. Then go back and read the discussion. And the discussion is really where you find out

the author's like, well, we think maybe kind of this might have happened And then you read it and then you can go, oh, but I actually read the study that they didn't mention or maybe they didn't think connected And that actually fits really well in here and supporting their idea and I found that because I've read other studies in this area But I know based on that introduction that this literature that I you know, maybe I'm versed in jumping pretty well, I can pull from different areas or different antidote experiences that go into that discussion to give me an understanding. Now, how important, when you're looking at studies, how important is things like, things like sample size and the type of people that they tested? Why should people look at it?

How long is it going to conduct? Yeah, why should people look at that as well? So good question. And first off, let me give you a little background. It's never gonna be perfect, because people don't tell you this, but those participants are normally college students who don't wanna be there.

They don't have a large time frame because a lot of times it's done by a master students or a PhD student who's just trying to find buddies again, the study. They are paying people sometimes to be there, which is why compliance is always fantastic. I'm like, oh, wow, these guys, they all worked out for 15 straight weeks.

I wish we could have people do that, like they're paying them like a hundred bucks to do it. So give and take with it. I think it's more of an understanding of, if you have a big sample, and the differences are significant, but maybe not massively significant. It's tendency.

We think, probabilistically, that this worked. There's a smaller sample. You better have a very tight correlation or a, again, use p-values to determine significant. The p-values aren't great because what happens if it's 0.05 is a kind of traditional p-value? What's a p-value? That determines significance. It's the, if you were to plot two normal curves and ignoring stats because I don't wanna get people

into that, the old bell curve thing. Yeah, like if you got like this group got, you know, added two pounds to their bench press. It's not really significant, you know, two pound increase or whatever. Well, it could be if the other group didn't put on any pounds at all. And so it's a difference,

and they're actually moving to effect sizes now because effect sizes like a spectrum, small, medium, large, probably not significant at all. And the way that works is the difference between the means. So I have one group that bench press and they didn't want to retain and the other group didn't want to the bench press retain.

And they on average went up three pounds and they on average went up zero pounds. And so it'd be the difference between the means which is three divided by the population standard deviation. And based on that, you get number like say 0.5, or 1.2 and it just says, oh, that's a large difference or a large effect size. So a lot of these people noticed that.

It wasn't just an average because one guy added 15 pounds. Yeah, so it takes the standard deviation population, but in a p-value situation, it's either yay or nay. Was it significant? Was it not? And as a researcher, well, maybe it wasn't significant because the time wasn't long enough.

You can do certain tests to figure that out, but maybe there is a tendency for it to be kind of significant. So that's like where the effect size is coming to play. If it's small, medium, large, very large, it's no longer, is it significant? Yes, is it not, if it's not significant, throw it away. It says, well, this is a small effect,

but maybe a lot of small effects add up to something beneficial in the long run. Yeah, so what you're dealing with is, often times with studies is a bit of a self-selection bias, right? The kind of people that tend to volunteer for studies tend to be college-aged males. Is that going to have an effect on the potential results of the study? Depends on what you're studying, but it's something to consider, I think it makes sense. The sample size, you know, if they did a study with two people,

they could have maybe picked the two people that are respond a certain way. Now, if you have 200 people, then the results might be a little bit more applicable to average people because there's so many people in this study. And then controls, maybe you could talk about controls a little bit, what does that look like? What does that mean? So, controls are hard, especially for intervention, because

a lot of times a control is a group that you want to compare your outcome to. So, does bench pressing make you stronger than not bench pressing? So the control group would be, well, not bench pressing. Yeah, it brings you right forward. But then it's like, well, maybe I wanna group, I wanna see, do they get stronger

if they do four by eight or if they do a two by 10? So now you need a control group, how much does someone not change? Maybe because you do that too because you don't want a group of young guys. If you take into maturation index. So if they're like adolescents, well, if they go from 13 to 14 a year long study, how much of that strength was just because they got older. Right. They didn't even work out but they got stronger. And so that's why some of these groups are controlled. What happens when you do nothing? If you're in a study, because placebo is a thing,

well, how do we placebo an intervention? Well, you can't put fake weights on the bar, so you just have them do nothing and tell them you're in a study. So you have a group that doesn't do anything. You have a group that does you a two by 10 and a group that does a four by eight. So you can compare, did my four by eight make me significantly or the effect size stronger

than doing nothing. You can compare that way. And you can compare the differences between the two groups of the two by 10 and the four by eight. But that requires more participants. It requires more compliance. It requires more researchers, more hours, more funding. And so regardless of how you shake it, research is tough because there's so many levels to imagine a master's, we've been a PhD student who's doing their thesis or they're doing

their dissertation. They have to have oversight from a major professor. So how many university major professors are out there working with other major professors who don't have to have oversight over the kids? So the guy who's the expert in it is spending his time not orchestrating the study unless they have a grant or funding from government and that gives'm a lot of money and incentive to do that. Well, they got to oversee these students to make sure they're doing it properly and they're coming into the right statistical conclusions.

They're helping them write the papers. They're helping them so on and so forth. So none of these studies and people say, oh, research is so stupid. Well, no, don't be stupid when looking at research. Right. It's not their fault, like just understanding the nature of the beast. Yeah, because oftentimes the way we interpret it,

just for the average person, we either interpret it by a headline or we interpret it by what you said, which is, you know, what the researchers thought they saw, which oftentimes is wrong in headlines in particular or sensationalized. So they'll say things like, compound found in chocolate, shown to speed up the metabolism.

And what you don't know is it's the animal study, the compound in question was 50 million times higher in the study. Chocolate company paid for it. Yeah, or something like that, right? Really won't get funded. Now, what about Mata Analysis? What is there importance and significance?

What are they, first of all, and why are they important? So that's when they look at all the studies that have been done on a topic. And they might have inclusion or exclusion criteria. For example, I just posted one this morning, plugged myself on my page, at Strong My Signs. Nice work. But, well done, Fidet. It's looking at strength in regards to adaptations to elite athletes. And what they did was they looked at all the studies that have studied elite athletes.

And they looked at, okay, what was the optimal set in rep range? So what happens is they go through, here's my hypothesis. I want to see the effective dose for someone to get stronger in this population. Now all these studies, maybe kind of studied athletes in a little bit of a different way, but they have inclusion, exclusion, criteria to determine whether it fits the fold of what it should be. And then they analyze, based on all the studies, they study the studies.

And so this is the one where people tell, this is the bees' knees, because it tells us all about everything in detail from all the studies and whether or not, they actually run stats on the stats, like they run, oh, this is significant. If you guys nutrition studies do it quite a bit, oh, these interventions work best. Typically, strength, conditions studies don't get that much research. And so, or the funding is not as cool and effective for humanity. So, the smaller sample sizes, but they try to study what all the research is leading us to. And this is great for guidelines, working guidelines, but guidelines.

You shouldn't read a study and say, oh, you know, Dr. Matt Rea said that, you know, if I do four sets of, uh, yeah, four sets of an extra eight sets of an exercise, about, you know, roughly 80% of the 1 RM, that's the most optimal way for twice a week to get strength gains. Well, the research, you know, that's the stats say, but maybe they didn't test if they trained every day or they trained this way. It's just a working guideline. So where does adaptation factor into all of this?

Because that's a, that's a whole nother piece that I feel like we, that people don't get addressed when talking about a study because a study, it typically, there's a window to it. Right. It's a time frame. And although those things may be true in this controlled environment in real life where you live longer than six months

and you've got to continue going on, what we know, and we talk about this because you keep referencing rep range, which is a perfect topic to give this as an example. You know, let's say that, you know, the four sets of eight is the best for building strength. That's what we read and we find out. Well, yes, in a group that was trained for six weeks, you prolong that group for six

months or a year, we may find out that actually five sets of 15 reps lighter weight will build more muscle because they got adapted to that first. Exactly. And so it's very complex when you look at anything ever. Let's be honest. Look at nutrition studies, looking at biochemistry, looking at performance. Research gives us working guidelines. Let's understand adaptation first.

If we have a concept and framework of adaptation, we can then take that and apply it to what we are attempting to understand. So adaptation and short, you have a stimulus, you have a response, the body mobilizes energy and it has to defend itself from the stress and then you adapt. Now people say, oh, it's the general adaptation syndrome and a good friend chase, Phelps Mine sent me the original paper on that and he goes, oh, by the way, I think we've been kind of misinterpreted this. So general adaptation syndrome, you guys might have heard about quite a bit And he goes, oh, by the way, I think we've been kind of misinterpreted this. So general adaptation syndrome, you guys might have heard

about quite a bit, which is, oh, you know, I have a stress response, catacole amines, cortisol's released, ideal with the stressor, and then I adapt and supercompensate. So I get to a level that was higher than before. Sure. Now the general adaptation response, and I will get back to the question, this is important, we outline this, is a general response, keyword general. So whether it's training, when they're stressed in life and all

this stuff that go into it, we have a stress response. So that's more of a systemic stress or systemic. Exactly. And people take that and they go, oh, that must be how muscles work. Well, if you actually read the paper, Hans Saley goes, well, there's a general response and then there's a specific response, which is why if you do, you know, quad extensions, your biceps don't get bigger. Your quad gets bigger. And so the general response helps orchestrate a specific response, but the specific response can buffer the general response. And so this is where it gets tricky. So imagine I get really strong. So I've been doing bench press, I have a general response, it's a stress. I do it over a year and I get really big pecs and I get jacked.

And then Adam comes and lifts me in, Adam's never bench press before. And I give him the same weight I give him, that I've been doing for me. Well, it's gonna destroy you, but it buffers me. So I don't have the same stress response because my specific system, which the stress has been applied to, lifting weights, my bench press,

is very robust. Right, so skin getting darker from adapting to the stress of been applied to lifting weights my bench press is very robust. Right, so skin getting darker from adapting to the stress of the sun is more of a specific response to buffer you from the general stress response of UV rays. Calluses and digging holes. I can remember the movie holes,

you gotta get calluses, once you dig enough holes, great movie on progressive overload. Right. That was the point there, Charlie? Exactly. He's for science movie. Oh man.

So you train a lot of real people. And the reason why I say that, and that's why that's something important is because you also look at and, you know, break down research. And you're talking about the drawbacks of research. But I think when you do both, when you train people on a regular basis for long periods of time, and you read research, then you can kind of piece that all together.

I've had issues in the past with what I call fitness academia, which are the researchers who don't ever train anybody. And what they do is they take their research and they think that that's what applies to everybody. And oftentimes trainers answer questions with, they don't answer them with specific answers. We tend to answer questions by saying it depends. What's the best rep range for me to build muscle?

Well, it depends, what are you doing now? I got a great example first. I just got off the phone, my buddy, professional soccer goalie. And he called me up, I'm training him remotely. And so it's always tough when you do things remotely. You don't see him in person. And you don't know always what's going on. Hey, Max, you know, I was wondering if we could go twice a week, training instead of three times a week. I said, well, okay. Well, yeah,

but why I've come curious. I've been doing a lot of field work and I'm feeling good. And I get a little tired in the last workout. That's well, one of us, the professional goalie and one of us isn't. I'm not, and you are. And if your field work is very important, let's not have you be tired for the field work. And so yes, I understand trainings important and lifting weights and maybe three times a week might be more optimal for strength gains in a perfect world. But he has a lot of general stress because he's doing the field work too. And so there's a point of it, yeah, I wanna give him a nice working guidelines.

But he says he tires, shit, I'm not professional. I'll go, like, yeah, you get paid the bills to do that. So let's keep you fresh to do that. And so that's where it's being flexible in your model. How can I get information from the person? And then make it fit them. I'm not gonna try and force feed a program. So that goes back to the idea of adaptations.

We look at adaptation, I have my little note card right next to me because I don't remember the names. I made a cool little graph and so I'll read on it. All right. All right. The PowerPoint on the screen. No. So we have what's called a minimal effective dose. That's when you train and it's enough of a stimulus to get some type of adaptation. It's minimally effective.

Then there is a maximally effective dose. So that is the optimal dosage for the optimal adaptation. Then there is a maximal adaptable dose. This isn't the optimal adaptation, but it's the most load and stress you can handle while still adapting. It doesn't mean you're actually adapting more. It's actually equivalent, and this is theoretical,

and adaptation to minimal effect of. You're just doing, you're borderline doing too. We call it as a overreaching. Almost. It's like, oh, it's threshold of it. Yeah, and so it's kind of like, you're doing enough, you're adapting, but your body's spending a lot of energy to recover.

And so let's cover a term if I go any further, because it's important, this is how my mind works. It's completely erratic and I apologize. So it's something called adaptive energy. It's how much energy your body has to adapt to a stress. And it's important when we dive into recovery in a little bit. So think of it as a currency.

If I am just buying sports cars, well I can use all my money to buy it. But if I got pay for rent, if I got to pay for shoes, I got to pay for food. Well, I can't buy a Ferrari. I can only buy, you know, maybe a Nissan, whatever. Because I only have so much currency to spend. That food, that, the shoes, the rent, those are all other stressors on the body.

Some of them unavoidable, some of them avoidable, that we delegate our currency to. Psychological stress takes a currency, we gotta spend it. Not getting enough sleep. Well, that might be taking money out of the bank, and we can get enough sleep and we can add currency. So if we think about this currency model, then we go, okay, a minimal effect of dose

is where just my body has more room to adapt. I don't want to spend all my currency there because maybe something else might be going on my life. or just my body has a more room to adapt. I don't wanna spend all my currency there because maybe something else might be going my life. The maximal adaptive is I just spent the right amount, I stressed the body enough, I adapted to the most optimal. And then the maximal adaptable dose is when I spend money to adapt,

I actually spend a lot just trying to rebuild the system. So my currency's being spilt just to recover. Yes, I'm still adapting, but more could have been delegated to actually adapting if I didn't train so hard because working so hard to get back to baseline. Then there's a region of excessive stimulus, which is where you're just trained too damn much and just trying to get back to baseline over and over again.

And then there's like a, that's called like the maximum tolerable dose. So can you just physically tolerate that dose? Be smooth. That's a problem with that everywhere. The most I can do without dying or burning myself. And then this region of harmful stress, which is when you actually get hurt. And I guess before that, the initial, it's a big curve, by the way, and I can share it

with you guys who want to use it or whatnot. Well, this is why, so I always say to people that my goal when I go into every workout is to do the least amount of work to elicit the most amount of change. And that mentality is different than, can I crush this workout? Yeah, what's the most I could possibly do and still get some problems? No, the least amount.

Or the, no, no, what they would say. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is the opposite of how I try and coach and teach people is that you wanna do as little as possible and still gain the most from it. So that's where difference between Olympians and everyday people are. So the Olympians say, you know what,

I'm gonna push a little bit further because I wanna get the maximal adaptation. But anything more than maximal is a waste of time. So you're always walking this fine border line of safety versus progress. Is this really safe? Well, no one said high performance is safe because you're walking a very, very thin line.

On the other hand, if you're an everyday person, why even bother risking going over that threshold? Because you're just wasting money at that point. Let's just do enough to get an adaptation. So I can train today, I can train tomorrow. I don't set myself back, because now I set myself back for other life events too. Now, I think it's also important to communicate

that this is a moving number or target, if you will, when the optimal amount of training is for you, this week versus. This week or day one versus day six or whatever is different than it might be in the future. So it's important to communicate this because people get it fixed in their mind and they think, what do you mean? You know, when I worked out five days a week before I was in the best shape of my life. So what do you mean? This is too much now. So well, it's too much now

because you're not sleeping as good or you've done shit for a year. You got a stressful job now or you're older or whatever, it's a moving target. Exactly, and that's why, so at the place I work at resilience, because we have people wear wearables, so like a whoop. People go, you know, why you wear a whoop? It's not gonna tell you how to train.

No, it's not. But then give me more information and context of that person for what that target has moved to for that day. And where can we cover some ground? We had someone who's a high level exec and they work, work, work, work, work, and they get stressed out, maybe. Well, let's mitigate some of the stress so they can train harder in the weight room.

And we can use that as an educational feedback tool. And so, what you've done before and training matters, so what load you can handle, what has happened acutely in that day, those two weeks, your nutrition, your sleep, and then what you plan to do in the future, all affect that moving target. So people, when we read a research paper, we gotta understand that's a working guideline. A lot of the times, eight sets of a given muscle group at 85% is a good idea for high level athletes.

But sometimes it's not. It's just knowing that this target moves. And when we read research, it is never we know. It's we know the researchers think this might be it. It's a very, very important distinction because I just watched a, I watched a swear to God took a picture of this before I left. I was in Denver.

News came up. Bum, bum, bum. New study shows, sleepy nine hours or more as a cardiovascular risk factor. Oh God, I'm gonna tell you right now, don't sleep. I can already tell you, I can guess why that's a shitty study. Wow.

They probably had people in there that slept a lot because they were sick or because they were on a day or depressed and they didn't take them out of the study so it showed that you sleep a lot, you're gonna get. What's the relationship between recovery and adaptation? Your body healing versus your body adapting and you know over or super compensating so it's better. So recovery is a very monetized topic. I'll put that politely. Because recovery sounds cool. Oh, let's recover from a hangover.

Let's recover. You're lost goods. Let's recover from training. Recovery is always like a better thing, but it's not always better. And let me tell you why. So recovery, the way our body works, it's a a hormetic environment.

In other words, a little bit of bad causes some good to happen. That's good. If we don't allow any bad to happen, well, then no good can happen. Right? So how do you build a callus? You don't build a callus by not shoveling. Yeah, but not by wearing gloves. Yeah. You slowly ease into it. And so when we talk about recovery, there's different categories of recovery. There's a recovery category that's adapted genic. So it augments adaptation. It wants to help bolster your adaptive gains. Sleep, nutrition, well-timed sonas, maybe some supplementation based on your own, maybe some creatines and extra protein, all those adapted genic in nature. They're trying to help you

based on your own, maybe some creatines and extra protein, all those adapted genetic in nature, they're trying to help you become, make your stimulus more potent. Then there are ones that are, bluntene, so things like an ice, a cryotherapy, excessive antioxidant supplementation. Well, that might blunt the adaptation, but based on the time, it might be a good thing.

Imagine if I had three basketball games in a row. Right, yeah. I don't care about adapting. I care about playing my damn basketball game So cryo and ice and maybe I've always made that case for like double days of football You know, I know I have to do this same insane amount of stress like I'd repeat that you know the whole week So I had to take care of this and you want to able, so what is your priority at the time? Is it the performance or is it the adaptation, the training? And that's a good way to look at it. Am I training? Am I performing?

If you're performing, you don't care about the adaptation as much because you're just trying to get to the next event. That's where you make your money. So when we look at recovery, I'll put a third category in there and that's the feel good category. We don't really know what it does, but it feels pretty good. So feeling good and that's the feel good category. We don't really know what it does, but it feels pretty good. So feeling good, it's probably gonna hurt.

Yeah, massage, soft tissue, even norm attacks. Oh, it feels good. We don't really think it's gonna cause much physiological harm. And so by nature, that's a feel good, it's adapt, the genic helps you adapt, because it helps you feel good. Relax and feel good. And that might just be as much as turning the genic. It helps you adapt because it helps you feel good. Relax and feel good. And that might just be as much as you know, turning the system down. He said, relax. We're just calming down so we can adapt.

Yeah. So I think of it like we we talked about calluses. It's like you rub the skin off your hand. The skin healing and coming back would be recovery. The development of the callus would be the adaptation. Adaptation is to make you stronger so that you can withstand the same insult you had before. The recovery is just the healing process. And what we see a lot with people in the gym is they get stuck in this recovery trap where they break down, get sore, heal, and then do it again, but they never allow their body to or optimize their body to actually adapt. So they use the same weight every time they work out. They go, they get sore every single time they work out,

but they never really improve, because it's all about healing. And that's on that ends of maximal tolerable dose, right? They're just doing so much, they got to spend so much time just to get back to baseline. They're not adapting. Beast mode.

Yeah, yeah. So, is it safe to say that there's separate things. In other words, healing and adapting can be separate things. I think people think that the recovery is adapting. Healing is adapting. So I would call adapting moving beyond baseline. And healing is restoring two baseline. So in the adapter process, you do go back to bass line and beyond. So you heal and more. And when you just recover back to bass line,

you're just quote unquote healing, getting back to where you're working. So here's an example, it's really easy. You have a castle. I like castles, I wish I had a castle. Right? Thanks, yeah. It's pretty cool.

I like the cypress castles, I like where you're going here. It's a pretty cool concept so far I got castle. I was a big Lord of the Rings guy growing up, so it's an easy reference We have an enemy come to the gate. They knock some of the wall down and then I go oh well, you know I only have so much resource to build a wall back up to what it was So I'm not adapting. I'm just keep building that wall back up to what it was But if I have it in me attack and the attack does enough that I'm like, you know, not wall barely hung on there, we should build a bigger wall. So now I'm adapting. And now when

we adapt, you got to think of it like this to build a bigger wall, it takes more resources. It takes more people to help build that wall. So to recover to baseline, it might just be, oh, I got 10 people, we're going to build the wall. So damn high, because the other 10 over there, we're worried about the pigs pooping everywhere or something, right? The other stress in your life or something. So let's get those pigs out of here. Let's put them in a pig pen and we'll go 20 people build the wall, make it bigger, taller. And so now we have the ability to adapt, move beyond what we were. Another word, pay attention to the other stresses in your life that could potentially hinder you from recovering or building that bigger wall. Now let's talk about, we always hear about

inflammation. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Inflammation is terrible. And you know, you read an article or whatever about a new recovery technique or device and the way that they measure its Effectiveness is typically on this reduced inflammation or markers of inflammation and that's supposed to be great and that's supposed to be good. So what's the deal with that? Great question. Can you see a lot of reduced inflammation reduced inflammation. Well, markers of inflammation reduced 25% by with this supplement. Therefore, athletes are like so. It's good.

Yeah, this is great. Take this all the time. It's so sick. Yeah, let's take it all. No, inflammation, and by the way, they don't, if you don't understand, I'm not gonna dive into the details of signaling pathways, but in short, we can pretend that inflammation occurs from what are called

myelinsidocans. Myocans are just signals from the muscle hence the myocytocines. Cytocines are cells and cytos cells. Right? So the muscles might send a signal, hey, we've been worked. Our cast or our wall just got knocked down.

The little guy who's on the wall runs back to the king and says, hey, you know, our castel just got knocked down. That's the myocine from the muscle saying, hey, we need to rebuild this. So that signal's kind of important. It tells us, the wall's down. Now you can either not tell the king

and you can take a supplement that blunts the inflammation. So that guy instead of going tell the king, he goes, I'm just gonna rebuild it myself. And so they rebuild it, but the king mindset, you know, we should have built it taller, because I'm smart and I'm the king and we're assuming the king is intelligent in this world. And he goes, all right, we're gonna build it bigger and stronger.

And so when we have inflammation in the body, we gotta understand why it's there. Is it from an acute exercise? Well, we know that inflammation, like reactive action species, not synonymous with inflammation, but they often occur hand in hand. Our important signals for muscle growth in those pathways in IL-6 protein synthesis pathway,

they believe in interleukin-6, which they believe is inflammation marker, blah, blah, blah. And short, it's a pathway to say, hey, we need help rebuild. So what they've actually looked at will go back to the antioxidants in this because it does fit right in what you're saying. Yes, perfect.

The antioxidants were the crown jewel of longevity at one point. Because they reduce inflammatory markers of inflammation. Well, so what happens is it reacts to long story short, you have mitochondria and you have some other pathways to an oxygen and what becomes reactive. So there's an electron transport and it moves around and electron moving pairs typically together and one time it goes by itself and it goes flying off and it reacts The noxious species and creates super oxide or it can go penetrate the DNA and makes lipid peroxides And you can do a t-bars test and so on to measure that point is all this stuff happens normally

So things kind of break down to a point in the body goes oh well. Let's let's make it a little better Let's not have that happen. There's a long-winded biochemistry explanation for it, but the point is you adapt. Something happens you adapt. And so they said, well, if this is causing the bad thing, maybe we just take tons of vitamin C and we take tons of antioxidants, we'll live forever, kind of deal. I'm like, well, unfortunately, those are the signals

that help rebuild our system. So if we keep blunting it, we're not rebuilding anything. And they've actually shown that exogenous supplementation of excessive amounts might impair endogenous. So exogenous coming from external endogenous internal. Your exogenous supplementation of, say, a bunch of antioxidants might blunt your endogenous synthesis of these antioxidants. So we have what's called a redoc system and make this very simple. You have a feedback system, it is like a feedback loop. And the way to think of it is you have bad things build up and then you have the janitors come up and clean up. So you have kids go play

recess, they throw trash everywhere and the janitor goes and cleans it up. And so on certain days, the school's clean and you know the janitor does a good job, it cleans up stuff. So just like recess is the workout. The Jander comes, weep, sit on up, and the reactive oxygen species are leveled. But if we just have like 19 Janders, and the kids are playing recess, it is gonna be constantly clean everything up,

and you're never actually gonna have a signal. But sometimes we do need the janitors quote unquote to come in a higher level. Maybe we have field day and we invite a bunch of schools over and there's trash everywhere. Well, then we need the janitors. We need the exogenous antioxidants

maybe help reestablish what's called a redox balance. So when we train, they've shown that when we train, we have adaptations in the mitochondria, we have adaptations in this internal scavenger pathway which is the redox system that take up these free radicals and they say hey, we can handle it and we're going to build higher levels of a redox defense. So that's your redox. Your oxidative stress is how much of that junk is being built. So if you have a lot of oxidative stress, but a really strong redox system, they kind of balance each other out.

So if we just pour exogenous supplements in there and it takes up what our internal endogenous redox system would do, well, it goes, well, we don't need it. We don't need it. It's like taking testosterone. Your body stops making testosterone. Yep, exactly. And it's funny, they've done studies when all these hypothesis and theories were

floating around about antioxidants. They thought, oh, well, if we give people high doses of antioxidants, it should help with cancer. And they found the opposite. They give people high end dose of antioxidants with cancer. And the cancer cells got stronger and wouldn't die as easily with chemotherapy. Now, how does that connect to branch chain amino acids and recovery for that? Like, how is that similar? So let's finish this one first.

So what happens at times, you'll have, you'll want exogenous vibrancy. And so like we're talking about recovery, there might be times you want to blunt that signaling because you need to get back to baseline game game game And so if we're blunting that's what I'm excited that signaling pathway after a workout when we're trying to train because this much like the ice Yeah, yeah like the ice or like the supplement we this mystery supplement referred to that reduces inflammation Well, maybe that's reducing our signal

But maybe we have a lot of games in a row Maybe want to take that. And so that's where the bastardization or the monetization of recovery comes into play. Why are we taking this? Why are we recovering? Well, it makes a lot of sense for a high performing athlete, like an NBA player who's playing three games a week or what about that who's got it. And it makes sense only in context of in season or what they're doing with training.

Right. Off season, he's training to optimize, to get to where he can handle that stress, right? And it makes sense only in context of in season or what they're doing with right right off season. He's training to optimize to get to where he can handle that stress right. And he wouldn't be wanting to use tools like that. And for sure, if you're the average gym goer who's just trying to get stronger and more and when it comes to inflammation, this is why I've always said that you want to optimize your body's natural ways of utilizing inflammation rather than always trying to block it. Studies show that, for example, the regular use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatories

like ibuprofen on a regular basis actually result in not just reduced muscle gain and strength, but also chronic tissue damage later on because you're not getting that inflammatory signal to tell the body's strength in tendons and ligaments and joints. And so just like not to tie it back to where initially said, we uh, there's that specific adaptation that buffers the general response. In the off season, you're developing the specific muscles, the specific, you know, uh, whether it's the your heart, your capillaries so on, to handle the specific demands of the season.

So we have these specific buildups, those adaptations that blunt the general responses. So now we have a more robust muscular system, a more robust redox system. We now can handle the stresses in season. So that's where it goes, okay, we have a general response, but these specific demands actually can blunt the general response. It's where it goes, okay, we have a general response, but these specific demands actually can blunt the general response. And it's actually studying on this. And they

looked at people who, I think it was squatting a lot and I don't want to miss, they did an exercise a lot. And they made them just simply change exercises. And the amount of reactive oxygen species was significantly different. Because they were training an area that didn't have a specific, even the tissue for a time. Yeah, the tissue wasn't used to it. And so all these pathways, our bodies, very specific. And so if we want to go ADD and bounce around between all these exercises, that might be someone okay for general population,

but if you're an athlete, you probably don't want to do that. I want you to get really good at squatting out of the season and off season, so you can squat in season without bothering you. Let's build up your capacity. Let's get you good at being familiar with something. And so like you're saying with the inflammatory pathways, when we want it to be there, we shouldn't have it there.

If it's chronic inflammation, totally different, but it's also not coming from muscle and acute exercise problem as well. One of the best things I've ever found for both myself and clients that I've worked with in terms of helping the recovery process, but also not hindering the adaptation process is more low level, low intensity movement. So like somebody whose legs are really sore and I want to help them feel better, reduce some of the, maybe the symptoms of damage, but also speed up that process and get them to, would be like, okay, today what we're gonna do

is we're gonna do some light stretches and some light body weight lunges and just get you moving the muscle. That seems to have a positive effect on all those things. What's your experience on that? The question becomes those two things. I'm kind of, and, are you getting better because you're just doing not the main workout today,

right, that could be part of it. You're just not going heavy. But also, are you maybe doing light enough that you're stimulating, you're setting off the smoke alarm so the fire fire has come, but you're not burning the house down. That's it, that's what I think it is. And so that's the thing, two people go,

oh, you know, how do I, if the fire fires are cause us to adapt, how do I give them to come in? Well, you can burn some toast, you don't need to burn your house. Right? It doesn't need to burn your house. Doesn't need to be that crazy. People get that mixed up all the time. That's the concept of trigger sessions

in one of our programs where I tell people to do light, band work in between their heavy workouts, kind of keep that signal loud but not cause too much damage. Exactly. Well, it's in part of that too. You're pumping more oxygen, more blood, more nutrients, are getting to the muscles.

I would think that has something to do with the speeding up recovery process. We know what researchers think, right? There's a lot of shit we don't know. It sounds good. More oxygen, but like, is oxygen not going there in the first place? I don't know.

I don't know. I hope it is. So let's talk about some of the more popular, quote unquote, recovery tools, and what they're good for. Okay, let's start with sauna. You brought that up. Dun dun, yeah. What is sauna, what is sauna good for. Okay, let's start with sauna, you brought that up. Duh, duh, yeah. What is sauna, what is sauna good for?

Who should use it, when should use it? So let's understand a sauna first and foremost. It's like a, let's talk about infrared sauna in particular because I think that has the most benefits when talking about sauna. Sure, whatever, I mean, either one, it's a heat stress essentially. And so the idea between infrared is that doesn't cause a heat gradient because there's

no moisture and the waves penetrate deeper and causes heating from the inside out. And it's kind of like the theory behind it. We can dive into that later. But the point about sauna, and why sauna's got really sexy is because like, oh, they have heat shock proteins come out when you do them, like heat shock protein 70 and you have a higher GH response. Those are kind of just general stress responses. A growth hormone response does not mean it leaves

an IGF anabolic response. Growth hormone can come out because you just need glucose to be mobilized. So, they're fasting. Yeah, exactly. They just came out and showed that fasting does not decrease its IGF one levels. But a different topic we can talk about that.

Pretty cool, because, you know, will the walls have talking to you guys about earlier? It's like, yo Max, don't be a dumbass because it actually increases IGF1 binding factors. So you might be more anabolic after fasting. So I don't think it's cool for me to be able to do it, but that's okay. The point is we have modalities that are exercise mimicking.

So a thing like a sauna is an exercise mimicking modality. Excellent. And that is where you sweat, you dilate, you have an HRV that goes down so your sympathetic nervous systems aroused, just like your exercising. You have a stress in terms of heat and you have adaptation in isolation.

The question becomes, should I do a workout and then go do a exercise mimicking modality? And there's two areas that fall in here, two kind of arguments. One is, is perception reality. So if I perceive this to be relaxing me, and it helps me relax the next eight hours more after when I go through it my day, is that helping me more so

than the stress of doing 20 minutes in the sauna? So that's one school perception reality. How do we perceive and does this help our perception post workout? Does it calm us down? From a physiology standpoint, you guys growth hormone gets released,

but that's not necessarily because it's anabolic. It's probably because it's stressing the body. But another kicker is people, and this is anecdotal, people don't weigh themselves before they go in. I would be willing to bet my dehydration that people incur that they don't realize that they're incurring from a sauna, including electrolyte loss, is much higher than people give credit for.

Because they don't go in there for 15 minutes, they don't be in there for an hour. I want to sweat it out in the sauna, right? I want to be drunk. I'm always drinking wine in there too. So you're an abnormality. A lot of people don't. They don't even weigh themselves.

They have no idea what they are and what they aren't. Afterwards. And so we have an exercise mimicking modality like a sauna. You could argue your light, salarly light stretching is like an exercise mimicking modality. Those areas have benefit. They've shown that it reduces all cause mortality. So it's exercise. So is it just kind of a cheap way to exercise without exercise?

It seems like it would be a beneficial for the person who understands that going into the gym and doing as little as possible to list the most change, then follows up with a nice 20 minute sauna session could get a lot of benefit. It sounds like to me what you're saying is the asshole who goes beast mode and tries to crush it and then thinks they're gonna go in the sauna for more recovery is just gonna stress their body even more is probably getting little to no benefit. Possibly.

Unless again, they're psychologically being like, oh, I'm relaxed, I'm not beast mode in the rest of the day. And maybe there's beast mode person and they need that. Oh, got it. Great down. So then it could still even be beneficial for that person.

It could be beneficial. Okay. There is one study that looked at it as an adjunct to exercise and resistance training. It showed no significant difference. And it showed it would be anabolic. If you look at the research, it might trend towards being anabolic, but there's so many factors involved. Are you eating more now because you went into your sauna?

I think sauna is, I sauna. I do it. It's like a verb sauna is, I sauna, I do it. It's like a verb to sauna. But I like it. I sauna, it's me. But it's very, it's relaxing, but you gotta appreciate what it is too. So the balancing act between it.

Go ahead. So best time do you sauna, post workout, before workout, off days? You look at it as a whole. I like off days, but is your next day going to be a high level activity day? Is it performance day the next day? Maybe not. I don't do it then. I don't want it if I have a game. Maybe I do it. I have a game. I sauna, sauna, and then approaching the game, I go cold cold. Because I adapt, I adapt, I adapt, I stress, I stress, I blunt, I blunt. Yeah, I wanna get into cold.

Before we do though, I think part of the benefits of sauna, at least this is my own anecdote, is my ability to acclimate, to heat gets much better. So, because I am noticist, if I use a sauna consistently, I can stay in there longer with the same perceived, you know Effort or whatever where it's 15 minutes before was kind of hard later on 20 minutes feels the same kind of hard So I can I perceive the heat to be as strenuous for longer periods of time where I can withstand longer periods of time

And then I notice when I work out if I work out in in the heat if I work outside I have better performance, but I think it has more to do with the fact that I can acclimate to the heat better. And I've also noticed this with clients who come from like cold areas, I had clients from Minnesota, they'd wear shorts, wanted to be 50 degrees outside, because they're so used to the cold or whatever.

What's your thought on that? So, I'll answer that, but you remind me of something, I'm gonna forget otherwise. I think it's really cool too, because if you say, hey So, I'll answer that, but you remind me of something. I'm gonna forget otherwise. I think it's really cool too, because if you say, hey Max, the argument would be, why don't I just walk on a treadmill for 20 minutes? Right, as opposed to sitting exercise and making modality as a sauna.

There's no impacts, which can be good. If you know what walk a lot, and you walk 20 minutes, you're solace and you're feeding resource help. And so there are some benefits, again, to doing exercise and making modalities that might be better or not better, but different than doing the exercise itself. And then there's the acclimation standpoint.

It doesn't actually acclimate you to the heat. I don't want to be the guy. I don't know the research detail enough. I know it takes a lot of exposure and I believe it's consistency of exposure. It's possible that it could. Is it going to be your limiting factor? I work out in an air-conditioned facility. I'm pretty soft, so I don't know. I'm not outside in the

heat, but if you're an adult experience, speak louder than mine, this is possible. The fact that it might. I don't want to say ye or nex. I just don't know shit about it. Now you mentioned cold. Let's talk about that now. So we talked about sauna, kind of like an exercise mimicking activity. What about cold? What about ice baths or cryotherapy, that kind of stuff? So again, perception's reality. If someone hates a nice bath

and they can get all worked up about a nice bath, maybe it's doing more harm than good. I know coaches like my athletes hate it. They'll stress, they'll complain, they'll talk about it all day. Well then, it's just adding to it. From a physiology standpoint, it's shown to blunt the acute inflammatory response. So if I'm working really hard and I got gay tomorrow, maybe I want to ice, there's anal

g-sick effect, so numbness, it doesn't hurt. If I perceive my limbs not to hurt and then they don't hurt, does that make me feel better versus limping around all day and developing it maybe a bad motor pattern because I'm limping the whole time. So there's part of that. Another aspect of it is the, I have to shiver, which increases metabolism. The Russians used to use it as a recover modality,

not because of the cold, because it made you shiver. And it made you have some metabolic increase afterwards for the body to reheat itself. And you do this without having to impose a heat stress on it, so you're not losing water. If I go into a cold bathtub for three minutes and I hop out, I might shiver for X amount of time. If my metabolism is sped up, but if I'm in the sun and my metabolism is sped up, I'm sweating. So I don't have the same water loss.

And then on top of that, some people just like to, you know, it's my bad. It'd be a nice bath. It feels crazy, people. So anecdotally, like what I experienced from a nice bath the first time, and before this we were doing a lot of breathing techniques with Wim Hof and we were getting what he called the hypooxygenated state. So you're really opening up your lungs and, um, and then you get into the,

the ice bath, the ice bath is this external stimulus that it's like a shock. It's this crazy stress, but now it's all about how you're dealing with that. Oh, Brian McKenzie, and those guys that have him in labor talking about. Yeah, and so now it's like, you're forced to relax your way to be able to withstand and be able to stay in there,

because the more you fight it, the worst the experience gets. So that's now ice bath, not as a recovery modality, but as a psychological tool. Yes. And so now it's different, right? It's not recovery in the sense of physiological recovery, but it might be augmenting psychological recovery.

So if I can handle a stressor and how I get hit by a stressor, I can, that's the excuse for the psychology studies, they'll put like your hand in an ice bucket, they'll see HIV response, there's like a whole body in a nice bucket now. And it's how do I breathe through it? Am I regulating my breathing so I can handle a stressor just like I get a phone call or

a text, oh, yeah, forgot to do this report or I got bad news. How can I regulate and self regulate myself? Now we just talked about early how the body is interconnected and our currency, if I can find ways to not spend currency, my adaptive currency on psychological stress, well then, I might be putting that towards adaptation. And so now you've trained yourself to become more adaptive. That's why it's so damn complex. Body sucks. It's really cool.

But be honest with you, we really don't know much. I don't remember who told me this. But there's a big sports conference and an old side story I apologize. And they always, you know, professional lineman talk, blah blah blah, and they give their talks about how what they thought was right. And the neuroscientist goes on and he goes,

well, guys, I hate to break it to you all wrong. He goes, because I stay the brain and we don't know what the hell it does. And it controls everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, what about other recovery, you know, tools or or what I want to talk specifically about branch chain amino acids because I think it's one of the most popular bullshit supplements

that are sold on the market that I think probably less than 5% of the people that are using it probably should be using it and then they have the majority of people that are using it. It's a complete waste of money for them. So let's talk about branch tantalumian acids, glutamine, all these recovery supplements that are out there. So let's not lump them all together. Okay.

Let's kind of break some of them down. So glutamine, the idea behind that, they've shown in some studies as well as animal cell culture studies that might help with gastrointestinal stress from an exercise. Yeah, good health. Good health. And the idea is that maybe, just like a probiotic,

if we're stressing really hard, we might have something, this has been shown in marathon runners, which is an extreme stress. We might have some disruption in the gut. And so we're just providing a piece of that protein puzzle that might be more emphasized to repair the gut. Now, that's not saying that you need to drink it during your workout and your shaker bottle, 24-7.

It's just a piece of the puzzle. In the same way, Lucy might, you know, elicit a greater anabolic response. So, Lucy is kind of your stimulator, hey, let's, let's, you know, build some muscle here. And that's post workout. You have the, you know, your Lucy and typically most protein shakes have it

that leaves the anabolic response. But during the workout, this kind of stems from rat studies your leucine typically most protein shakes have it that leaves the anabolic response. But during the workout, right, this kind of stems from rat studies and my studies that show that, oh, leucine makes a super duper jacked and then turn down and then they make you super duper jacked humans, unfortunately. But that was the idea behind it, HMB, another one which the, got popular between behind muscle wasting, which is the metabolite of leucine. All these are just pieces that fit into a very,

in a very small, small tiny piece, that fit into a very big puzzle, eating a good protein shake afterwards can probably get you through it. Do I need BCAAs during the workout? I think, and this is, you're gonna hate me for this, I think they're effective because they taste good. Right, and this is, because they're shown

that glucose rinsing of the mouth increases performance. So I have something sweet. Now doesn't be BCAA. So you said glucose rinsing. You just like, you know, what if these are artificially sweetens? No glucose? I don't know if glucose sensation. It might be sweet sensation that tells the body glucose is coming and it releases more glucose

because it's not storing it for other times. Interesting. And so they've actually shown that rinsing, notimon swallowing, you can rinse and spit it out. It's just the sensation of sweet. Increases power output in certain things. Wow. And so people are like, oh, my BCA isn't making me feel, I don't know, sugar could drink,

cause making it feel pretty good. Or the taste of sugar makes you feel pretty good. Well, that's interesting. I wonder what the effects would be then to send the sensation or the signal to the brain that they're sweet, but not exercise. Yeah, I wonder if that could have a potentially negative effect. I guess the argument of artificial sweeteners

is it spiking certain levels of insulin and glucose and whatnot without actually being food present because we want to tolerate, we want to consume. I would love to see some really shitty tasting BCAAs and people tell me how great it works out. Well, then also, then the next question I'd have that is back to what we keep circling back to, which is adaptation.

So maybe the first few times or the first week or month you're doing that, it sends that release set then after a while the body adapts and just gets used to it. It's possible that again, perception's reality. You now perceive this isn't actually a food source. So you're just gonna fuck this. You know, it's not affecting you in the same way. But then again, maybe it is,

and you can't ignore sweeks. I've had a lot of candy in my life. I still like candy. It hasn't reduced the sweetness. I had about 30 gingerbread men last night. So I didn't de-sensitize there. It's gingerbread genocide. That sounded worse then.

Yeah. Yeah. No BCA's, and I'm just pure ginger. No. But as far as there, so that was interesting, because I've never even heard that before. That's totally forgot about that. I've read that a long time ago. And now it's giving me more arsenal to debate.

The artificially sweetened things have no effect on the body type of deal. The big debate, there's actually a lot of stuff like sucralosis coming out as possible issue. You know what's an issue when protein companies are starting to make non-artificial sweetened proteins. They're like, oh, maybe something is going on here. I think you guys would have no interest in doing that

because they cost a lot of money to change a product like that. Absolutely. Now, what about the key, what I would consider to be the king of all, you know, ergogenic supplements that's not protein, which would be crating. Crating. Yeah, let's talk about creatine as a recovery tool aid

and has something that helps with adaptation. They're looking at it from a standpoint of cognitive function. Creatine's very important. The creatine phosphate shuttle and how phosphates, it's an ATP technically shuttle, the phosphate shuttle through different embedded kind of networks. It's not like you're moving a giant ATP molecule past around, there's CRP and CP,

which can move it around. We'll see our creatine and creatine phosphate, the binded version that goes to the actual source of being utilized. And it gets passed on, it's really nice schematic. If you look at up the creatine phosphate shuttle, it's pretty easy to understand, very well drawn out. So it's important for energy reserves

because if you have more creatine, you can have more creatine phosphate and creatine phosphate is the fastest acting of the delivery systems to produce ATP. It gathers up and then if you have more pool, it will signal earlier so you can possibly have, you know, more production of phosphate and being moved properly. Long biochemistry story short. Well, I want to stop you there because I've been saying something for years and now you're scaring me that I may give a terrible analogy. I try and what you just said, that probably went over most people's heads.

When you take creatine, I used to tell people like, let's, and this is totally made up numbers, everything just to get to paint the picture in layman's terms. I would say, we go to do a bench press, and we're gonna do five sets of it. You do a set, and let's say your body starts with 100 energy molecules.

It uses 20 of those. Okay. And then while you're resting between sets, your body replenishes, let's say, 15 of those 20. Fair. And now somebody, and then you do that each set, and it becomes a little less,

a little less each time, right? Just why throughout the workout, you get weaker by the towards the end of it because we keep using this and it doesn't fully replenish anymore. When you're on creatine, instead of that number being only replenishing 15, it replenishes 18 or 19. Sure, why not? I think, I'm not, yeah, it sounds. Right, okay, just want to, to me, I think that like makes sense to a person who doesn't understand the mechanisms and how what's going on the body I would even say it like this though

I would just say that the the cretin doesn't necessarily make the replenishment bigger It just you start off with a bigger number. Yeah more guys in the front line Okay, so rather than go instead of being with one so I could change my analogy to instead of saying you have a hundred You'll you have a hundred and twenty now molecules that your body has to utilize. Your body can store far more creatine than you tend to get from food. So when you supplement, you get this like, I'm always looking for ways to really simplify complex things like that. I'll do my best and for you, buy on my molecular people out there.

If I get it wrong, you know, yell at me later and I'll change it. But we're not worried about those people. I don't care about the, obviously, the 100 people. For sure, the 100 people that are listening that are going to hang on every word and critique, I care about the fucking 60,000 that are listening that want to understand this and take away something like, okay, this has value to me or not. So let's think of it kind of like a domino example. Or even better, a restaurant.

It's kind of like having just more bread in your initial bread basket. Yeah. So even if you're out of bread, or some bread's been consumed, it signals the waiter walks by and goes, my God, my eyes max had already five baskets of bread, I don't know, this is amazing. But aside from that, they might walk by

and say, oh, look, some bread's missing. So we're gonna go tell the bread guys in the back, assuming there's a bread guys, I don't know how restaurants work. Yeah, there's the bread crew, that these guys need more bread. And so they are the shuttle. They don't put bread in my mouth.

They don't take a new, you know, they bring me bread. They bring bread from the kitchen. The kitchen doesn't come to me. It's just more available. Yeah, they bring it to me and it's more available. So now my initial, they know Max always comes in here and so they've been supplementing with creatine or supplementing with lots of bread. Max comes in and always eats three baskets of bread.

Let's just make one basket with three baskets worth of bread in it. And so now it can be utilized and it's the front line and that's why the Crete was like, oh, it'll help endurance and all these crazy other things because it's that line of defense. It can buffer. But but also has a lot of benefits. I believe as it's 70% of creatine goes towards methylation in the body, it's really important for sleep. They show it as sleep deprivation if you sell it with creatine, it can help.

It's got heart health benefits. It's got hands down the single best supplement. Arguably the most omnipotent supplement as a... There's cognitive benefits, especially for vegans, vegans you don't consume. And your body, you know, it's not an essential supplement. Your body can make its own creatine through, I think there's three amino acids, right? Bethionine, Arganine, and glycine, I believe. And however, consuming actual creatine, your body has a capability to store so much, and this is why

supplementing works so well because you actually can store far more than you tend to consume from food. This is where the whole creatine loading thing came out. Like when you load creatine, you hit those limits faster than if you don't load, but I still think it's a waste of money. And then we have that. We know what researchers think, and so there's actually a lot of research that says, like, oh, maybe all that creatine

that's been consumed and it's really not as useful as we thought it was. And so, but why is that? Is it because it's not being stored in the muscles? It's been, it's been official somewhere else down the line. And so when you, it's easy to read the back label of a supplement and be like, oh, you know, creatine is right, it's the most important.

What athletes should not take creatine? Are there any? Besides ones, I have a bad reaction to reaction to I don't think really any I Some very few arguments are like, oh, you know, maybe the weight class athletes. So they stay in the same way It's not like I've never heard of create mean I've heard rumors like oh crewteen you'll blow you haven't read in the research studies Let's say you're putting on like five pounds of water mass You'll get like three what are the things that you currently use now? I mean, you mentioned sauna, so you do

intermittently use that. What are the things that you use right now? Because I would consider you a, you're not a high performance athlete where you're getting out in the NBA or what of that, but you're not playing pickup with it in a while. But you train to be athletic sometimes. You train to be strong, you know what I'm saying?

So, you know, I think you I think you could be a Similar avatar for a lot of people that are listening the type of stuff that you do so I'm curious What supplements if any supplements you do utilize and then what recovery tools are you using when we're talking about things like sauna and cryo and ice and things like that my biggest recovery tools By far enough sleep and food, by far. I think too much in the day to not sleep enough. If I don't sleep enough, I'll go manic. I'm really wild, I'll go emotional, and not like sad, I'll just be like,

well, and not to mention when looking at the hierarchy of things that are most impactful, it's probably one of the most impactful things for all people. So I wear a hoop that tracks my sleep, and I think it's important for me just so I know, you know, okay, here's another one. A supplement, quote unquote,

and it's not at least, it supplements my sleep. I'll take, I use nasal strips. I have a deviated septum that I broke in basketball that I don't want to get fixed. So I wear nasal strips because my nasal cavity's very shallow. And when I sleep, if I have one booger in it, it'll wake me up. And so I need a bigger nose.

And so it's a cute adorable little nose, but it doesn't do any good. So, that's what my fiancee tells me. And then I use an eye mask, or something to cover my eyes, so I have no blue light in the room. I have no TVs in the room. I have no alarm clocks in the room.

I have a phone that's face down, that's on, do not disturb, I have a little moon mode, you can click. And so I don't have anything bothering me. I have a fan on and I love my fiancee, because she does not move at all when we sleep. And so it's, that. How do you wake yourself up with that in the alarm clock?

I have an alarm on my phone. Oh, okay. It's on my phone. I wish I was a machine. Dude, you know myself awake. Dude, I got it, something for you that I've been using. It's been a game changer. So I bought this alarm clock.

Always at the sun with the light one. Bro, I have the same one. It's magic. It slowly lights up and mimics a rising sun. And I just wake up. I just like wake up from it and look around and it's like a light glow and nobody cared about that. Oh, it's up.

It is freaking money. It was up to the shit out there. What the hell is going on? I brought a loop a few times. We haven't really actually had somebody on the show that has breaking down HRV and the science behind it. And so obviously you're using this and using this with your clients.

And let's talk about HRV. Yeah, I'll talk about it a bit. Well, before you go there, did we wrap up all the tools I use my work? So let's do HRV at the end. I'll consider that a supplement I use because it helps me track my sleep. But we'll dive into all that with that means, because that's a we'll do HIV at the end. I'll consider that a supplement I use because it helps me track my sleep, but we'll dive into all that with that means,

because that's the little digger, digger, deeper dive, deeper dig, bind it all together, bigger digs, when I should all together. Oh, it's all together. I've had like nine cups of coffee. That's weird, I can't tell. Woohoo, yeah. You're doing good, you're doing good.

So we have, I have a nasal strip, I have my sleep mask, I have a fan on, I have a cold dark room, 66 degrees, converted my fiance to that, now it's only 66, no 68, no 69, no 70, keep it cold, keep it dark to blackout windows. I take fish oil, I take magnesium because I think our dosages from the FDA is like 450 milligrams

to the average male, but that's like, you know, FDA is basically a, so you don't, I'll recommend milligrams average mail, but that's like, you know, FDA's basically so you don't recommend a daily value, sorry, RDA. That's like, so I don't get scurvy amount of vitamin C. And so we got to understand when they become a pirate. So I take magnesium, I take magnesium by glistening it because of the absorption is better. That's what I've heard. I actually have never done the research some doctor told me so I said, sure, why not?

And other stuff makes you poop a lot, you're not careful. Some of the magnesium isn't really digestible. So if you get the wrong stuff, you'll just shit a bunch, which is I did once. Got the wrong stuff, I was pooping all day for a week. And I was like, why am I so sick? Like what is going on?

And I realized the wrong magnesium, so be careful, make it a serious story. Cause I thought I was like actually really ill. I was just pounding the wrong magnesium. And then I take an alcharentine, acetylocarentine. It's a long chain fatty acid shuttle which takes long chain fatty acids and put them into the mitochondria. We take that, it's the little carcinthine, I get one of the packets I give you guys.

I'm even sneaking that in. Good for you guys. Cognitive benefits as well. I always said I'd creatine, five grams. I have a lot of stuff I just get from people, and I don't want to say I take it because of certain reasons I just take random shit sometimes because I just want to see what happens. Oh yeah. I want the same thing.

You and so. We get shipped all the time, but we talk so much shit about some of them, but it doesn't mean we don't play around with them every once in a while just to see. Foss Tidil-Colin is one of them that helps with, it's a Colleen Free Curcer or Cedil-Colin, which is neuromuscular junction, and it's sent out to neurological benefit, put it that way.

That's actually a big Colleen crisis in England. I believe that to go in through right now, that related to Alzheimer's and how can I benefit for it. Aigiox, aigiox, or could source the Colleen. I eat tons of aigiox, I probably don't need it, but I benefits for it. Aay, yolks, egg yolks are good, so it's a cooler. I eat tons of egg yolks, I probably don't need it, but I take it anyway. And then I have a mineral, just a menrax kind of thing, which multi-menoral based on some blood work I had,

but I did blood work by the way, before all this. So it wasn't just like shooting the dark, trying to figure out what. Well yeah, and what you're naming, which I love, is, and this is what we try and talk to people, is that the real benefits is learning where your body is potentially deficient and supplementing for the things that you technically need is going to get more benefit of that than chasing these high performance supplements that can make claims of, you know, make you run faster, jump higher, burn body fat, build muscle.

And taking too much of something is, can be just as bad. So if you have too much of a fat soluble vitamin or vitamin, a mineral and you're supplementing with a multi-mineral, multi-vitamin, you could cause yourself a lot of problems. So it's important to test. Test yourself, have a doctor that knows what they're doing. Don't test yourself and you, oh yeah, look like I'm low on B vitamins.

I'll take six. No, actually understand the dose that you're using while you're taking it. And then, like for me, gut health was a big thing. I had to get much better. It's not perfect, but it's better. And then some athletes typically have gut health. And I heard you guys talk about your own internal clocks

that you have. You know, it's farting, psoriasis, and gut health. And so I healed it. Yeah. That's a, and I think that's important because for mine, it's like,, psoriasis, and gut health. And so I healed it. Yeah, that's it. And I think that's important because her mind is like, okay, if I eat potato chips, it's just probably not the best for me.

It doesn't rear itself through acne or other areas that some people might have or stress and anxiety. It's probably gut health. And so being consciously aware of what's going on can be beneficial as well for your own supplementation because then you understand, you know, why am I getting certain bad outputs? Right. Right. And I think that's pretty much all right. Now the HR HRV. Yeah, the drumroll. Um,

so HRV's heart rate variability, when your heart beats, I'm gonna do my best, uh, simple explanation. So your heart beats, um, you say, oh, I have an average of 60 beats a minute. Well, it actually doesn't beat on a metronome. Every beat has a different, if you just took that one-to-one beat, that integral of the two. It might be 62 beats in the next one's 59, the next one's 58. And that's your variability. They run certain stats on it to give a log R, SSD on it. Point is that you have a hearty variability

and they have lots of stats to quantify it. It measures, it's a check engine light for your autonomic nervous system. So we hear autonomic nervous system. So we hear autonomic nervous system. Think of autonomous nervous system. Yeah, because you don't think about your heart beating. No, you just have to turn it on and on and on.

What if working? Yeah, you wouldn't have. You're hoping. You just say, oh, I hope it works. You don't want to have, you know, you don't want to consciously take care of your muscle recovery. It happens autonomously. It's broken into your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic, oh, I have sympathy, someone's being chased by a lion, so your heart rate

races. That is the activation, the mobilization, the movement of energy resources to accomplish and conquer a stressor, which is why we go back to if I'm activating my sympathetic nervous system, which is for a stressor, but the stressor doesn't exist in tangibility, that's where it's not tangible stressor, I manifest it by perception, then that's excessive arousal of a system that doesn't need to be aroused. The parasympathetic nervous system is, you're paralyzed with food after you've had Thanksgiving dinner, right? It's rest and digest, it's rebuild, it's relaxed. So, the sympathetic you feel sympathy, your heart races, because there's a lion chasing someone, the parasympathetic system is relaxed.

I am paralyzed from all the food I ate from dinner, kind of thing. What happens is these two work in tandem underneath the umbrella of the autonomic nervous system. Your HRV is a reflection of your autonomic nervous system. It's a reflection of the two branches, sympathetic and parasympathetic. A high HRV, high heart rate variability is a good thing. When you breathe in, your heart rate just speed up. When you breathe out, it should go down.

Right, that's why you scare someone, no one breathes out, they don't go, whoo, you're gonna scare them. There they go, they breathe in. Heart rate gets raised. When you breathe out, right, it goes down. And so you wanna have a large heart rate variability and this can change based on everything in life.

I stubbed my toe, I'm stressed out from work, I didn't sleep well, I didn't eat well, I worked out too much, a lot of stressors and put into the body will decrease your HRV, your heart rate and variability. If I can remove them, it will go back up. And so, the idea of a whoop is it tracks heart rate variability and it lets me know, am I still taxed from the day before? And what might have taxed me? Is it my workouts? Well, my workouts have been the same, but I was really stressed for work.

It's probably my stress from work. It gives me more internal bio-information. It also assesses how long I slept, is my HIV down, so poor, I have a high stress still because I didn't sleep enough. Am I not sleep enough because I'm stressed and kind of a vicious cycle? What's my deep sleep like? So your deep sleep, there's slow wave sleep, that's your physiological

adaptiveness or resilience. That's where your body builds and repairs and sleep. That's your growth hormone gets released. It spikes. It happens earlier in sleep. Your body rebuilds and repairs. It should be about 25% of your total sleep. Deep sleep should be 20-ish, 15%. I say 25 because why not have a good number? 15 to 20, I believe the research says. And then there's the RAM so which is your rapid eye movement sleep. This is your emotional regulation sleep. So your RAM sleep is where your body and your brain plays back memories of the day without your migdala interfering with the emotional rouse. So that's your emotional resilience.

So your migdala, if someone says something to you and you're emotional in your knee jerk reaction, that's your migdala, because your prefrontal cortex of your brain is the guy that says, hey, don't make stupid decisions. Your migdala is like, let's make rapid quick decisions, which is good and survival reasons,

because you don't want to process everything. But when we have an emotional interaction during the day, our MIG-DILA gets activated during that response. And our REM sleep helps, they believe, emotionally regulate ourselves by playing back some of these memories for the day, and allowing it to occur without your MIG-DILA being involved, so there's no emotional connotation with it. So it regulates you. So they think that if you get low rim sleep,

you're not regulating your emotions in previous day. So you might be more, have a higher probability of, you know, emotional outbursts. I don't know, something of that nature. It's stress and just. And so, and then you have a number of disturbances in your sleep, are you tossing and turning along? Why?

Is it the new bed I got? Is it, you know, the new environment I'm in? Is it the fact I, you know, I've drank way too much coffee last night before bed? How long was I in light sleep for? And you can start to break this down to give yourself some more internal context. So we talked about the beginning,

our currency, our adaptive currency. If we're not sleeping enough, not sleeping well enough, we're taking currency away when we could be putting currency in. So now I have some more bio information about my own currency because we as humans aren't very good psychologically at times at perceiving our own internal state. Because we want to survive. Right. And by nature, if you perceived you weren't going to survive all the time, you probably weren't going to. You weren't be too...

So this is giving you like a nice external reading on things that you might not necessarily be able to pay attention to. But I would assume over time, looking at a device like this and then connecting it to how you feel over time, you should be able to move to a point where you may be able to identify these things without having to look at the feeling. Yeah, and the kicker is our body works in lag times. And so you don't necessarily have a lowered HRV just because I'm happy that day before, but could be because the week before.

Your nervous system, your autonomic nervous system might have a delayed response to it. And so the example would be that they've shown people who they don't sleep for 36 hours because they're going under some psychological stress test and their performance or tactical military groups. And by the last day their HRV is like perfect. I'm like, well, how the hell is this happening? Because they're adapting to the stressful environment. Now, that's what we would call maladaptation, bad adaptation.

You don't want to adapt so bad as a norm. So they argue that people might actually be addicted to stress at times because you adapt to being stressed out. Oh yeah, and then how do you feel when there's no stress? Yeah, and then yeah, that feel when there's no stress? Yeah, and that's your new thermostat has set to a higher homeostatic set point.

So homeostasis is just a fancy word for saying, oh, my body wants to be level here. It's like water leveling itself. Well, if I move that set point higher, so I'm used to more stress, that's why living in New York City is a cardiovascular risk factor. It is, it's actually scientifically shown that is a cardiovascular risk factor. It is.

It's actually scientifically shown that's a risk factor because there's so much stuff going on that you have adapted to being in the highly stressed environment, which means you can survive and thrive in it, but doesn't mean you'll survive and forever in it. Doesn't mean you're gonna live long. I mean, you might not live as long.

Yeah, exactly. Very interesting. You're always an interesting guy to talk to. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We always're always an interesting guy to talk to. Good. We always have a great time with you on the show. No, no, really fun discussion. Where are you heading to after this? Denver back home. It's a Denver, I don't know where cool. I didn't have anything back home for the holidays this week. How long did you take off? Do you go a whole week off? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We always appreciate when you come on the show, you always drop so much knowledge. I know that the people in our audience who love just learning, you know, the intricacies

of things, just get a kick out of your head. Yeah. What are you, what are you getting into business-wise right now before we hang up? Let us know what you got going on. Yes. I'm with Paul Faberitz, who's been on here before. That love. Good buddy. Yeah. Paul's my guy. And we're building a website together called edu Um, and that is an educational platform So I have a lot of frustrations with education both scholastically and your own attempt to learn Because a lot of times is biased a lot of learning on Social media or you know through websites or people trying to sell you something so they want you to learn to buy Right, and I'd rather we had to subscribe to the website

because yes, we're putting in time and effort. So we would like to have that time valued. But if you had the upfront fee, we're not selling anything on the back end. I wanted to be an open dialogue of people discussing through ways that not currently being done. And so we have a book club, we've partnered with, not partner,

but working with Human Kinetics, which is a large publisher for lobby books and sport performance and science and research. And we are reading their book chapter by chapter. We're not reading it out loud or going through the details of it. So someone can read along with us. And they can go over chapter by chapter and hear us discuss what it means to us. So we're not replacing the book, but we're discussing how you can take information away from the book to help you as a coach. Then they're going to help us get some of their authors who wrote the books about the end of it all. We can talk to the author and have questions about it. But we want it to be in a way that

I'm not trying to sell you anything. I want you to actually learn because my frustration came from when I tried learning the only like source that wasn't trying to sell me something was Louis Simmons. Louis Simmons would just put out his West Side Barbar all of his techniques because he just wanted people who he really is strong. Yeah, he sold some books, but wasn't like he was sitting there like, oh, at the end of this, by X or by this program of mine online.

I would have, but he didn't sell it. And so we wanted to have book club, we want to have webinars where we teach in a little more detail some of the things that we do. So that's like force, velocity, profiling, certain educational, like quote unquote webinars, the PowerPoint, more traditional. I want to be able to post what I'm reading daily.

Go on my website and see, you know, our website and see what I'm reading today. What research papers, here's our research links that we're reading, it's not my research paper. I want you to read it and this is what we're going to, you know, talk about. I have a little short max thoughts and Paul thoughts where we hop on the mic and we just talk for seven minutes of stuff. We've seen we go over Different Instagram accounts that we like in social media accounts and posts that we found interesting

So was this informative for you? Would you learn from it? How you can you know dive into some of these accounts that people don't know about that are very, very detailed and give you some really good information, but we want to be a living environment. I don't want it to be something like a classroom when you purchase, this is the core of a side-bought. No, I want it to be ongoing because we want people's input to be involved in it. And we want somewhere people can go and say,

look what they talked about, I'm gonna go somewhere else and find it because they didn't they talked about. I'm going to go somewhere else and find it because they didn't talk in the detail I wanted to, but that's how it should be. I should be one giant kind of inspiration library almost. We should be this platform people go to and engage and can learn off of. Now, are you building this or is it ready to go? So, depending on when this is going to be released, it should be out as soon as we can. I think by the time this is released, it will be out as soon as we can. I think by the time this is released, it will be out. I don't know when you guys are going to put this out. I think a couple weeks a week or two, it'll be out soon. We can have.

It'll be close. So in that ballpark, if we don't have it out, we'll have it out very soon. It's basically the whole framework's built out. It's all there. Beautiful. We're just uploading some stuff and you put first website up. You can't just have one article. You need to have lots of articles. Well, we'll make sure we dry people your way up. We love the content that you guys put out. Paul's a good friend of ours too. I always constantly plug his page too. I think you guys are always putting out non-biased,

good information that the average consumer can learn from. Or I appreciate it. And then you've ever had me on again. I was sure. And I was noticed and I lifted all the weights out there. Wait, no. Excuse me. Yeah, good deal, man. Thanks again for coming. Awesome. Appreciate you guys. Excuse me. Good deal, man.

Thanks again for coming. Awesome. Appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle

at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic, pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is is like having sour, animal, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources, at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love, by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.