Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1425: How to Produce the #1 Fitness Podcast in the World (The Story of Doug)

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin interview their producer, Doug Egge, about his upbringing, life experiences and the journey that led him to partner with them and create Mind Pump. The values and morals that built the foundation. (4:40) Living up to his brother’s standards. (11:30) How he chose to follow the path less likely. (16:00) Reconnecting to his childlike wonder. (20:19) Take yourself out of your comfort zone and DO SOMETHING CRAZY! (21:51) Where does his relationship with money come from? (25:21) The HUGE lesson learned the hard way. (30:00) How his daughter stole his heart. (39:21) When did he fall in love with fitness? (47:25) When Doug met Sal. (49:52) The creation of MAPS Anabolic. (55:55) The evolution of the Mind Pump message. (59:04) His experiences of first meeting Adam and Justin. (1:05:12) Becoming the ring leader. (1:08:50) The Mind Pump system of core values. (1:10:15) Stand out moments with Mind Pump. (1:12:32) The silent, but supportive leader. (1:24:58) Featured Guest/People Mentioned Doug Egge (@mindpumpdoug)  Instagram Tony Robbins (@tonyrobbins) Instagram ᑕᖇᗩIG ᑕᗩᑭᑌᖇᔕO (@craigcapurso) Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned November Promotion: MAPS Ultimate At-Home Workout Bundle for Only $99.99 Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! MAPS Fitness Anabolic - Mind Pump Media No BS 6-Pack Abs | MAPS Fitness Products MAPS Fitness Products Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources  

I wanted to show that I'm good at stuff too. And so I worked so hard everything I did. I wanted to be the best at everything I did. And honestly, I don't think that was my natural personality. I was kind of more like a relaxed, you know, just kind of draw pictures and not really be a driver. But I feel like he put a fire under me. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind,

there's only one place to go. Might, might, up with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You are listening to the number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Punk. Now, in today's episode, we talk to the guy who runs the show, the puppet master, the Wizard

of Oz himself, Doug Eggy, the producer of MindPunk. We actually interview him and talk all about how everything started. And then we talk about MindPunk and how that started and how we grew. And the moments we knew that this would be something we'd be doing for a very, very long time. If you're interested in podcasting or fitness or building a business, or you just wanna hear some really, really good stories, you're gonna love this episode.

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right in front of you for only $99.99, and they also come with a 30-day money back guarantee. So you can sign up, try them out, and if they don't blow your mind, return them for a full refund. Here is how you sign up, or if you just want to learn more. Go to maps, November.com, that's the word maps, M-A-P-S november.com. That's the word maps m a p s november.com. Probably the most requested podcast episode. I would say up there up there with the girl. Yeah, I was going to say that's

the other one where everybody wants to hear the girls perspective. Yeah, which we're not going to put you know, let's wait on that. Yeah, at least not that. Yeah, but this is not happening. But the second most popular is that we interview Doug. Yes. The voice behind it all. The guy who runs the show, who manages the, what, it hurts the cats. The cat herder. The cat herder runs the business.

The wizard devise. Yeah, exactly. So, so Doug, let's go all the way back. Oh my God. Yeah, let's go all the way back. First, I want to say you're, I've known you the longest and you are definitely one of the best people. Oh my God. Yeah, let's go all the way back. First I want to say, I've known you the longest and you are definitely one of the best people I've ever met. That's true story.

Definitely one of the best people. And so I want to know how that all started. And when I say best, I mean you've got incredible integrity, morals, you're a good person, just genuinely good person. And oftentimes that comes from some of your upbringing. So what was it like being a kid growing up in the 1700s? Yeah, we're the, yeah. We're the, we're the,

we're the values and morals come from. Yeah, for a, for a guy who doesn't, you know, tout any religion or saying that that you do seem to have a, a very moral, moral fabric. Yeah, well, I can thank my parents, 100%. My parents were, I mean, very traditional. When we grew up, they were married, I think, in 1951. So they grew up during that time where, you know,

the family values, the mother, the father, family unit was extremely important. They were religious. We went to church, typically three times a week. A lot of church. Okay, so when you're going there, because I have a similar story, did you hate going when you're there? I absolutely despised it, honestly. And part of the reason was, is I was a daydreamer. And I was very into creative type things,

and I went to church, and I heard the messages there, and it wasn't entertaining at all. And so I would just sit there and daydream the entire time. So that's a confession, so if anybody knows me, that's why. We're similar in that, because I too had the three days of week in church since I was seven years old and on and felt the same way too.

Many times I would trail. I had a hard time focusing. Yeah, very much so for me. Did you have any issues like that in school too? Yes, absolutely. In fact, when I was in elementary school, I did very poorly the first few grades. In math, I remember all my friends, they all knew their timestables, and I couldn't get

past like the threes. And it was just because I didn't put any energy or focus into it, I couldn't pay attention in class. Well, those threes are motherfuckers. Yeah, man. Three times seven. What was that? I can figure it out.

It's real tricky after one. Yeah, I was a doodler. Actually, I did. I drew a lot of pictures in class. I constantly was focusing on other things, thinking about all the things I wanted to do outside of class, so I wasn't focused at all on that. And then, at one point, I was put into the lowest math class. And all my friends were in the highest math class.

And I didn't like that. And so for me, that was putting a little bit of a fire under my butt and say, okay, you've got to concentrate, you've got to figure this out. And so I really got serious about my timestables. I was able to finally get them, you know, up to 12 times 12. And I started to excel

a little bit in math, and then I got raised up to the next level class, because I want to be with my friends, right? Now, is that when you started to discover like that hard work equals results? Was that the first time kind of figured that out? Yes, I think that was one of the things that clicked for me, is like, okay,

if I put energy and effort into learning something, I can get good at it. Now was this a lesson in your family? Was your family very hard working? Like what were the values that they? Yeah, because you always talk about your brother and like how, you know, you've seen him be successful. And was he like an example for you?

He was, he was a motivator for sure. He had a very high standard for me. Because he had a very high standard for himself. because he had a very high standard for himself. And he was actually very talented in many ways. He was a very good artistically, which was for me was my forte, because I was always the best artist in my class. And I love to draw pictures,

and I was very much into the creative things. But my brother was also very athletic, which I've never been super athletic. I mean, if I practice something a lot, I can get fairly good at it, but my brother was just a natural athlete with great hand eye coordination. And one of the things my dad did is he took a scheme

when I was fairly young. And so we go up on the slopes, and my dad was not a good skier. In fact, my dad was not athletic really at all, but he enjoyed skiing. So he took us up on the slopes and my dad was not a good skier. In fact, my dad was not athletic really at all, but he enjoyed skiing. So he took us up on the slopes and we go skiing and my brother would really work at it, you know, to get really good. And he got to be a very, very good skier. And me, I was just like going down the hill, you know, kind of these wide, you know, swoops

across the slopes and my brother, you're a horrible skier. You're absolutely a horrible skier. You've got to be doing this, you've got to be doing that. And he'd just like ride me and it's like, I don't want to be horrible. I don't want to be horrible. So I would really work at getting good at something.

And I ended up being actually a pretty good skier, probably better than average. What's the age difference between you and your brother? Six years. Okay. So he was very much a motivator in that respect. I think naturally I take more after my dad. My dad was, he was very interested in audio production,

things like that. He had, you know, we had movie cameras from the time I was a small child. My grandfather actually had movie cameras. So he got that. He got that. Oh yeah. So we have movies of my mom over at my dad's house

when she was like 17 years old. And that wasn't very common back then. Yeah, that was back. Boy, that was in the 1950 or 1949. We have family movies from back then. Wow. So I have family movies of my parents wedding So I got that part from my dad right my dad just not athletic

And my dad was never a driver for perfection But my brother was my dad was a hard worker very hard worker I mean he was a middle school principal. He always provided well for the family. They, of course, they grew up with parents from the depression, so they were very cautious with their money. My mother, an incredible lady, I mean, she's 88 now. I love her so much. She is just a super good-hearted person. Everybody loves her. And so, I mean, I really feel I got, so many great values from my parents. And I really appreciate that.

And even though I don't go to church, I feel like what I got from them as far as my moral code and how I treat others and so on is a reflection of how great of parents that they were. Now Doug, I remember you telling me when years ago when I trained you that you were a chubby kid, you had issues with weight or whatever, and that's kind of how you started to discover fitness. Yes.

So, again, my brother plays into this as well, In many ways, my brother, when he was like seven, eight years old, he was, I would say obese. So he would eat a lot of food. And, you know, he's very active kid, I think he was at the time, but he would just over consume calories. And he really struggled with his weight up until the time he was, I believe, 15 or so. And so when he was 15, he got very interested in girls, and he was in high school. And so one summer, he was like, I think 60 pounds overweight, okay, at that stage. One summer, I don't know how he did this, but he just spent the entire summer just really eating very low calorie. And by the end of summer, he had lost

a good portion of that weight if not most of it. So when he went back to school, nobody recognized him, really. Because he had lost so much weight. And my brother just, one more thing, not only was he a good athlete, not only was he a good artist, not only was he very good at a lot of things that he tried, he was also very good looking.

And, you know, so I always had the standard always trying to equal this guy. And so when he started to get fit and healthy, I started to get a little bit more interested in that myself. Now, we're talking to the old wise matured dog that's probably grown through a lot since then. When back then, was there resentment or animosity or competitiveness with them because of that, being the smaller, younger, less attractive,

less talented, less athletic brother, did you resent him at all for that? Did you go through a phase of that? I sound pretty pathetic, don't I? Of course I resented that. How can anybody be more attractive? Because I mean, you speak so highly of him. And I know you guys have a very good relationship.

But I have to think that, you know, if, you know, as a young in mature kid who's not probably very self-aware at that age, you probably are bitter or angry a little bit about it. And did you start that way first? And if you did, what was that like and where was the transition into a different outlook on it? Yeah, there was a certain degree of jealousy regarding him, I believe, in some ways.

Cause I felt like I could never live up to that standard. And it's like, you know, if you're around somebody that's very good at something and you want to be good too, and you know you're never going to be like them, it's like, well, what's wrong with me? Am I a lesser person or whatever the case may be? So I would say I probably had some insecurities regarding that. I mean, it didn't help that he kind of fed the fire at times.

I remember when I was probably, I think, I don't know, eight years old or so, and he was like 14, he brought home some boxing gloves. He's over there. Yeah, he's six years older than me. So we put on these gloves because you can't get a punch in, you can't get a punch in, I'm getting hit in the face and knocked around. It's like, you know, my confidence was shaken. He's just holding your forehead. So for years, so for years, I really wanted to prove myself. I wanted to make my brother proud in some ways. I wanted to show that I'm good at stuff too.

And so I worked so hard everything I did. I wanted to be the I'm good at stuff too. And so I worked so hard at everything I did. I wanted to be the best at everything I did. And honestly, I don't think that was my natural personality. I was kind of more like a relaxed, just kind of draw pictures and not really be a driver. But I feel like he put a fire under me. That drove me. And in some ways it was me trying to overcome

my insecurities. And over the years I started to get good at stuff. Not the same stuff that he was good at, but I started getting good at other things. And this is what kind of led me over the years to become good at what I do now. All these things have built that foundation for why I can do what I can do. And also it built that work ethic. Cause I don't think I had that work ethic without him driving me. When did you start to really find

and feel your own identity, the things that you were getting? When did you start to feel like you. Yeah, I'm definitely been a late bloomer in my life in many respects. It's probably been in the last 10 years. Oh wow, yeah. Wow, wow. So that's when you really started to feel it.

Now was your trip over to Japan? Was that part of kind of discovering yourself? Absolutely. Yeah, so tell me about that, Doug, because you grew up in such a conservative kind of traditional, leave it to be your type, so tell me about that, Doug, because you grew up in such a conservative, kind of traditional, leave it to be your type, you know, house, for example, or household or family. Yeah, absolutely.

But then, I mean, I know you, and I know you traveled a lot, you went all over the place, you did all kinds of, you lived in Japan for a while, how did that happen? Yeah. So I went to school, I went and graduated from college. I got my degree in business. I concentrated in accounting.

However, it pays now. It does. However, I hated accounting. I really didn't like it. The only reason I did it was because again, I wasn't really living my own life at the time. It was like, okay, I had very successful brother-in-law. They were both MBAs and my one brother-in-law was a CPA and they had built their own businesses.

My brother by this time was starting to find his way in business and I thought, well, if I'm going to be successful, I need to go out and get a degree that's going to be very practical. And that's going to be being a CPA, I guess, is what I thought at the time. And so I did that, not doing what I really would have probably done had I followed my heart. I probably have been more interested in architecture,

or something like that, something with design involved. So I ended up getting this degree, and I didn't want to do that. So I get out of college, I'm unhappy with the prospect of being an accountant. And so I ended up getting a sales job. My brother was doing sales at the time, and again, kind of following his path,

and he was being very successful. So I got a job selling industrial cleaning supplies for businesses. And I would go door to door to businesses with this big suitcase. And I would show them degreasers and do these demonstrations and things like that and sell these things, but I wasn't that good at it.

Okay, but it was a good experience, because I went out there and I had to cold call a lot, and I just wasn't making a whole lot of money. So I did that for a while, and I ended up doing a number of different jobs after college. They had nothing to do with my degree. And my last job before I went to Japan was selling Chevrolet's

And I did that for one year Salesman of the month one month sold 19 cars. Yeah, but I I give you a good deal. Yeah, I did I worked it so no I wasn't the greatest for sure, but I I worked hard at it and By the end of that I was just like what am I doing with my life? I got to do something different. And how old are you right now? About 25. Okay. And at the time, I was living in a nice house with two roommates. They had a swimming pool at the house. And this is up in Seattle. So it wasn't used year round. But I remember like one afternoon, I just came back and I was floating in the pool. And it's, what am I doing with my life? And one of my roommates said, you know what? I have a friend who went to Japan and they had an incredible experience You had to try it out and so it's so random. Wow. Yeah

Sure, you're in the pool. Hey, you're going to Japan. I know some of you else did it. It sounds interesting So that's what I did as I went to Japan. I actually went on a exchange program I already had my degree, but there's a local community college that had a campus in Kobe. And so I went to that campus, I just paid for a quarter. Yeah, very good beef there. And I went there just to have fun. And I had fun.

Believe me, it was some of the best time of my life. And I decided I'm going to stay here and that's how I ended up getting a job and working there for six and a half years. And you what did you do there? You taught English. I taught English to kids. To kids. You were there that long.

I didn't realize you were that long. Did you now did you enjoy teaching kids? I did. I did. You're a natural with children. You really are. Here's a thing, by that point I had suppressed my natural tendencies so much of who I was, artistic, I'd stop drawing pictures, I'd stop

doing all the things that I enjoyed doing. That when I started cheating kids, it was an opportunity to resurrect a lot of that. And so I started doing fun things with the kids, drawing pictures and playing games and making skits and things like that. And I started to reconnect with that childhood thing that made me happy. So the funny thing is, when I was a kid, I was a class clown.

I would talk at the wrong times, I'd say inappropriate things, but over time, because of all this pressure I'd put on myself, I started to push all that down. And of course, I'd get some negative feedback, too, from being a class clown. The teacher would be quiet, you know, and then I'd hear from other people,

children should be seen and not heard and stuff like that. And I suppressed a lot of who I was. And so going back to Japan and working with kids and being around kids in their spirit, you know, the kids are just amazing. They'll just say anything, they're pictures. Their artwork is fantastic because they have no constraints. They haven't been put in a little box yet.

And I got reconnected with who I am, or I was, in that experience. Now, what was it now? How did you enjoy, or did you enjoy Japanese culture? What was that? I mean, such a different culture from America. How long did it take to adapt? And this was, was this the 80s when you went there? No, 90s. 90s. Okay, so 90s, very different from living here. Was there culture shock? Did you enjoy it? Yeah, so when I went there,

I had really no interest in Japanese culture. I had no interest in Japanese food. I wasn't in the sushi or anything like that. So I went to Japan, I remember being on the... It's so crazy to me that you did. I know, this is floating around on a pool floaty, and nobody says this, no, don't even like sushi. You don't have any interest in the culture,

but you say, fuck it, I'm doing it. You know what's interesting, that's the more extreme than... That's one thing we all have in common. All of us have something like that in our lives. Well, this was my thought. If I keep doing what I'm doing, I'm gonna keep getting the same thing I've always gotten. Right.

And I could see no path out of that at that time. So part of it is you, which this is something very common, I think all of us did this, right? You removed yourself from your comfort zone intentionally. Intentionally, I ripped myself out of there. Yeah, you wanted to grow. You know, during that time,

there was a movie with Christian Slater called Pump Up the Volume. Have you seen that movie? Yeah, and Gleaming the Cube around the same time. Yeah, that was an incredible movie because this kid, he was a bit of an introvert. He goes to a new school in Arizona and he has no friends, but he has this pirate radio show.

And he's really edgy, and he's at night. And he deals with all these kids calling in and asking questions, and then the topic of suicide comes up. And he addresses the topic of suicide, he goes, don't kill yourself, do something crazy, do something different. I mean, it's a great message. If somebody feels like my life sucks,

I have no place to go. Things have just been bad and they look to the future. It looks bad. Do something different. Do something crazy. Take yourself out of your comfort zone and see what happens. And so that's what I decided to do when I went to Japan.

As I said, I'm going to just rip myself out of my comfort zone. I'm going to just rip myself out of my comfort zone. I'm going to go experience something new. I mean, what's the worst thing that can happen? Right, right. Now, you're a good looking guy. Good looking American guy. I got to imagine you were popular with some of the Japanese ladies over there.

What was that? Was that like, were you dating anybody? Yeah. Let's just say that. So what's going to happen? This is what you call shooting fish in a barrel. Oh my God. So she, you're so exotic there, right?

But kind of going back to what you're talking about, what I got to Japan, no interest in Japan really at the time. But I heard you could make money and I was interested in money. Okay. So I'm on this bus and I'm driving down this countryside, basically, from the airport and there's all these rice fields and you go these little towns and all the buildings are tiny

and all the cars are tiny and all the roads are narrow because you're out in the countryside. And I felt like I was just in another world. I felt massive for the first time. Yes. That's actually true. I finally felt like, man, I'm the meatcudds of the music. You mentioned something that I want to talk about. I actually don't think of you and I have gone deep. so I don't know the answer to this at all

You have a really good relationship with money That was quite the the journey for me to get to where I'm at today Share with me where that comes from where where it is where does your responsibility and the way you treat Money and work like where did that all come that's a great question because you don't, you always live well below your means. Below your means, comfortably. I never, you're not someone that spends your money on stupid shit. But yeah, you also like me are very competitive with the money thing and wanting to grow the business.

And so you're very, so it's not like you don't care. You're very interested in that. You just alluded to it again, that you were, you're money driven, but yeah, it doesn't rule your world and you just alluded to it again, that you were your money driven, but yet it doesn't rule your world and you have a great relationship. Where does that all come from? Well, again, I can look to my parents as far as how to use money. My parents, again, very traditional, so my mom never worked.

My dad was a middle school principal and we live very frugally or they live very frugally. So we got, you know, we got presents on our birthday, we got presents on Christmas time, but we never got a lot of stuff in between. When it came time for me to go to college, they weren't going to pay anything. It was up to me to go make all the money for school. And so I worked during the summer to pay for my college, and so I had to be very careful with my money as well. And so I think some of their frugality rubbed off on me. That's interesting though, because sometimes, you know, and a kid like me who didn't have very much growing up too,

when you finally get it though, you tend to kind of go the other direction and you didn't, did you, or did you, and then you, that was a lesson for you, like. Well, so if I look back, so I lived in Japan for six and a half years, and during that time, I had very few expenses, other than me going off and traveling

to different countries and things like that Yeah, you told me in the past you lived in like a little room and you wrote a bike. Yes, I lived in probably a Hundred square foot room. Oh, and then we shared I had I lived with some other teachers We shared a very small living room It had like a two burner gas burner hot plate in there a tiny tiny refrigerator It's like a dormant like one bathroom. It was very Rustic if you will it was actually my boss Had a home that been there for probably a few hundred years and the backyard had these buildings

So they they were very wealthy rice farmers in the day. And these buildings in the back of their house had rice storage containers and things like that in them. And I lived in the back on this little unit that they had back there. So it was very, very rustic. Now did you become like a minimalist from it? Did you find like value and joy out of not having a lot of stuff?

Was that something you enjoyed? I don't know if I ever found value and joy out of that. I was able to not having a lot of stuff. Was that something you enjoyed in other words? I don't know if I ever found value and joy out of that. I was able to still accumulate a lot of stuff while I was there. My little room was packed full of things, so I don't think that was it. But I felt like, hey, we're all on the same boat. I didn't really need a lot of space. I rode a bicycle everywhere.

I didn't have to pay rent. We had a phone bill, that's about it. And then going out and eating and having a good time every weekend. So were you stacking your chips? Were you starting to save money? Yes, I was saving. And so by the time I left Japan, I'd saved over $100,000. I'd invested in some stocks and things. I mean, at the time, unfortunately, I still don't have them. I had like Starbucks stock back then. Oh, my gosh.

You know, I look back, man, I, who knows where I would be now, right? So I was very careful with my money. And then when I got back to the US from Japan, the first thing I did is I went and bought a triplex as an investment property. But then I had a turn of events. Well, before we get into that, why'd you leave Japan in the first place?

It sounded like such an awesome. It was great. So the first four years in particular, I had a great time. And then I started taking on additional teaching gigs, like private one on one coaching for adults and things like that. And over time, I just working a lot, stop having as much fun with it. So you just didn't get much out of it anymore? Yes, and of course, after time goes on,

you kind of get acclimated, right, to a situation. So it wasn't quite as exciting as it was before. Got it, okay, so you come back, you buy the property. Yes, so what happened? I basically said, okay, if I keep doing, again, I was in a similar situation where I was, before I went to Japan, it was like, okay, if I keep doing this, this is where I'm gonna end up

doing the rest of my life. And I don't wanna do that either. Cause I was having a good time, but I didn't see that as my future. And so I have to get back, besides my parents are getting older, I don't wanna be away from them, because I don't wanna miss time with from them because, you know what? I don't want to miss time with them.

So this is still the 90s though, right? This is the 90s, it's like 1990s. Yeah, so $100,000 in your bank accounts, a lot of money, but late 20s or early 30s now, early 30s, 90s. Early 30s, yeah. Yeah, early 30s and in the 90s, I mean, you're doing pretty well. How's doing pretty good?

Yeah. And so you move back, we get in the States and one of the first things you do is, well, so the thing is, is I come back, and now I have no idea what I'm gonna do. So what I ended up doing is running tours for Japanese people. Yeah, so I bring people over, I take them around,

we do home stays for kids, things like that, and I thought I was gonna to build this little business here. But it ended up being very challenging once I exhausted all the people I knew over there. Yeah. And besides, I decided I didn't want to do that either. And I got an email from somebody saying, hey, you can sell financial seminars online. And so I started doing that. And I started making phone calls. So I was

basically cold calling people on the phone for these financial seminars. And I was selling them, and you could make very good money if you sold these seminars. And as it turns out, these seminars were offshore, okay. And they talked about all types of things, like, you know, US income tax, I think it's the 13th amendment was never ratified. Yeah, the state's never ratified. We don't have to pay income. Right, right, right.

So there's some very radical ideas being offered. Plus, their whole premise was, you're not getting the information that the very wealthy are getting. Like, we're to invest your money. You're investing in all these things, they're bringing you, you know, 3, 4, 5%, the rich are making like 10, 20, 30, 40% on their investments. They're not paying as much tax and that type of thing.

So we had these big seminars that we were driving to, offshore, most of them were in Mexico, but I went to the Bahamas as well. And we go to these big events, and it was a good time, and you meet all these investment advisors. And so I started putting some of my money into some of these investments. And some of these investments were so incredible, just to show you how naive I was,

that I ended up selling my triplex and taking my money and putting it in some of these investments. That was it, because you were making huge percentages back. Well, or you were sold that you were using to buy. The sold that I was. Oh, it's okay.

Okay, how much, let's back up a little bit here. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme. Hunter, Grant, and your bank account, what's the triplex cost to you back then? How much did you have to put down? I think it was in your bank account, what's the triplex cost to you back then? How much did you have to put down? I think it was like $380,000 for the triplex. And you put down how much do you remember?

Boy, I don't recall. I think I ended up putting down like 80 grand. Okay, oh less than that. I don't recall. So you put a big chunk of the 100K down though is what you're saying. I did put quite a bit of that in. Okay, so then you get into this whole investment thing.

It sounds amazing. You get sold on this idea. You cash out the place. I'm assuming you sell it for at least what you bought it for. Yeah, I made a little extra money. Obviously, after you pay commissions and everything, it wasn't as good, but I did make some money. And you take your money now and you start investing

in these financial opportunities. And the thing about this thing, this organization and these events, events offshore was that there be like 2000 people there and it seems so legitimate. Of course, there's all these people, right? Yes. A lot of social proof. I said they get those MLM guys.

Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. It was a bitch front property in Arizona for you. It was a bit of an MLM. So I would sell these things and I can make $1,000 to $5,000 every time I sold something. Wow.

So I was making some pretty good money doing this, but come to find out. No. Well, there comes the rub. So let me step back a bit. I did so well with this that I actually ended up on their leadership council of like 30 people. Diamond plate. Yes. So I was one of the top guys. And so one day we're on a call

with the co-founders. There are three co-founders. The FBI. I love this story. Hold on, hold on, I'm going to tell you a story. There's my favorite story that he ever tells. So we're on this call and the three co-founders, all of a sudden, they disappear from the call. What's happening? And the one co-founder, he was based out of Washington, and I could hear his bird in the background, and it's some type of parrot or something.

What's happening? And we don't know what happened to it. Come to find out there was a massive raid, one of the biggest, like, IRS type raids in the country. And they took down not only these three guys, but a bunch of other people. Fortunately, I never did an crazy tax stuff, okay. But after that happened,

every time I saw a black suburban. No, no, no. I saw a black suburban. No, no, no. I was nervous, man. I was very nervous. Now they audited the shit out of you though, for a while, didn't they? They did. And it wasn't necessarily because of that, but they started to get into that.

Yeah, probably because you were just associated. So we ended up getting out of that organization. Yeah, how much? Then did you lose a ton of money? Well, I lost all my money. You lost all of it. And then I started to, so I became much more conservative. That's how I did that. That's a big deal.

What a lesson. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot for anybody to save 100K today, saving is difficult for me. Especially when you work so hard for it. What I'm saying, you live well below your means in this tiny little apartment, you bust your ass for six years, you save all that money, you invest it wisely

in the tri-place, that was a smart thing. Then you sell that, and then you dump it all into this, that must have just ripped your heart out. Oh man, I felt like I got kicked in the gut. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. That's really horrible. Yeah, it's horrible, man. It's absolutely horrible. No, what'd you do after that?

Well, I had started another business selling essentially entities, like corporations, LLCs and things like that. So I had a business partner at the time. And we're doing pretty well with that. Actually, that's how I got into internet marketing. Got it. So this is back like nine, sorry, two can't get my ears straight here.

2001, 2002. So we, I, I was little sound, little Adam are just starting as a little personal trainer to 24,000. Yes. I started in 98 though. But I had started doing some type of internet marketing.

So we started to drive people to landing pages and things like that and capturing leads. This is really early. This is early in the internet marketing world. Very early in that. And so I started to learn how to do all that stuff. And we're selling these entities. Again, we did that for a few years and then we ended up selling that business. But for some reason, well, I'll tell you the reason, so my business partner wanted to do some day trading. And so we created this account with not a lot of money, like $15,000 for him to do some day trading. And he started doing tons of trades, tons of trades. This was, I think, about 2015. And what had happened is we never submitted the tax documents.

How much does? And so what the IRS saw was, like, two million dollars worth of trades. But they had no idea what the basis was or how much money we lost or made was. We, in fact, had lost about $15,000. So we had a loss, but that's what triggered the audit. And so once the audit started, now they started the polling all our personal returns, and also started asking questions

about this organization that we were a part of. And I believe me, I sweat for a long time. That audit went on for an entire year. Yeah, you still have a job. It That audit went on for an entire year. Yeah, you still have it still alive. It makes sense now while you are still alive. It's so such a stickler with like, you're so puckered, I know. With taxes and, you know, and finance and all that stuff

because you got. Right. You learned that lesson for all of us. Yeah, you tasted that. Yes, I did. I tasted that. So I had kind of strayed from where my dad was being super conservative about money

and then I kind of got a little bit loose, and throwing darts at a board essentially for making high returns and investments. And I lost. And so I really learned a lot about obviously investing and being conservative in that respect, but also about taxes. I learned a lot about what to do and what not to do regarding taxes. And so not only do I have an accounting background, but I also have this experience of knowing what the IRS is like and what you can and cannot do and where you can push

things, but maybe where you shouldn't push things. Definitely. Now, at this time, and I'm going to go forward a little bit just so that we can go back, when I started training you, I started training you, and I'm going to go forward a little bit just so that we can go back. When I started training you, I started training you, and I think it was, I don't know, and you would talk a lot about your daughter for the listeners. Doug is one of the best role models if you want to be a good father, really a phenomenal father, extremely patient, very, very involved. He would talk about his daughter, and then then one day this adorable little African-American

girl comes in and obviously looks nothing like Doug who's very Caucasian. And he's like, oh, this is my daughter, Brianna. And I'm like, huh? I don't know. Okay. And then I started asking questions. And the story you told me was very fascinating about how she became your daughter. Were you dating? Can you tell us a little bit about that? And at this time, are you dating her mom? I was dating her mom and come to find out she was pregnant when you were dating her. When I was dating her. Oh shit.

So before you'd start a dating her, she had gotten pregnant. Yes. And then you still okay. Yes. Oh wow. So of course my initial response was, I got to get out of here. Yeah. But for some reason I ended up sticking around.

And the baby was born. And not only was the baby born, Brianna was born. She is born with a diaphragmatic hernia, which is like a hole in the diaphragm. And so all the organs were floating up into her chest, and her left lung was way underdeveloped. And she had to go right into surgery right after being born. Cool.

And so I was there. And I went through that, and I started to form a bond and attachment to this little girl and I just ended up becoming her dad. Okay, but wait, I want to go back a little bit to the uncomfortable probably conversation here So you're you're dating her mom You're at month one two or three. I mean is it like you you look at her and you're like man You're putting on a lot of weight. We should know How did this conversation come up?

Like, I remember this day very clearly, she comes and I'm sitting on the bed and she says, I have something to tell you and she was obviously very nervous. And you got your name, something. Yeah, but how far? It wasn't the burrito. Yeah.

How far in are you right now? Like you're a month in, six months in three, how long you've been dating her for? Probably a couple months. Okay, so this is really new. This is very new. Yeah. And she sits down and she says,

again, it took a while to get this out of her, right? Right. She goes, I'm pregnant. And I'm going, you're pregnant? I should have thought. I'm like, whoa. That's exactly my thought. Yeah. my thought.

My thought. And it's like, okay, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Okay, well, you know, so I just have to suck it up and deal with it. So I kind of made that decision right there, but. So okay, wait, now at this moment though, you think it's probably yours?

Yes. Oh, so you know it wasn't even yours? Okay, so when does it come clear that was it when it and she came out and she was black When yes, oh Another part You never shared that part of the story man. Now you got yeah, you get the Yes, oh my god, yes, holy shit so up into that point you just assumed that you got her pregnant

And of course you're sticking around, you're a good man. Yeah. And then at this point, you've already trucked nine months plus with this one, are almost a year with this woman. And not almost a year, but... And then Alpops a baby that you are certain is not yours. Well, it was hard to tell though, because she was, because of breathing issues and everything,

she was very purple. Oh, so you didn't know yet. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay, you need to get me to the place where you started to get start piecing this thing. Well, I mean, of course I pieced together very quickly. Yeah. I got a good look. Because you know, because soon she was born,

because she- They rest her off, right? Rest her off. Yeah. Yeah. Gone. Yeah. Wow. So when you figured, when you found out, like what was that? Like when you figured, oh, this is not my kid. Did you think I'm out or did you think, obviously angry? I mean, they had to have stirred up all kinds of shit.

Yeah, it did stir up a lot. I think I've suppressed some of these thoughts I had. But I think so too, because we've never talked about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it was definitely an issue. And there's definitely parts of me that just wanted to leave.

Yeah, for sure. Totally normal. Right. I think most lesser man would have. Well, this makes me, I don't know what that means. And as difficult as to talk about right now, as I can imagine, I mean, it just, again, speaks volumes of the man that you are. Even more reason out to leave.

Yes, of course. I can't imagine I would stay. I don't know if I could. against speaks volumes of the man that you are. Even more reason out of leave. Yeah, of course. I can't imagine I would stay. I don't know if I could. Well, I don't know. I didn't think I would be able to do it either. And so does that make me a better man? I don't necessarily say it does.

Was I just being stupid or what? You know, I, that went through my head. Oh, I see. Is this really a smart thing to do? And honestly, looking back on it, I don't really know why I stayed. But, but if I look in hindsight, I don't regret it. Of course.

Because Brianna, she has added something to my life that I may have never had. Right. For the longest time I thought, I'll never have kids, you know. I like doing my own thing. may have never had. For the longest time I thought, I'll never have kids. You know, I like doing my own thing. I like my freedom. I like to be able to travel.

Back at the time I was going out of the country at least once a year. I love traveling. And a kid definitely didn't fit into that picture. But because it was kind of almost thrust upon me and I ended up in this situation, I've been able to experience something that I may have never experienced.

And it's enriched my life in ways that I can't even describe. I started that, obviously as fathers, you all know, you start to feel love, that transcends any love you've ever felt before. Before, I thought, oh, I love my parents more than anybody in the world, and then this little girl just stole my heart, and the love was so intense, sometimes it hurt, and it kept growing and growing and growing. I don't know.

So how long? You're making me cry, though. Yeah, so how long? Oh, I didn't know this all this time You're making me cry, though. Yeah, so how long? I didn't know this, just climb this story. Oh, yeah, that's so funny. Shows you how much these guys really talked to me. Yeah, whatever. I knew it.

And you showed the fuck up. That's a very direct question. You could tell you did not want to go there. Yeah, I know. You've avoided that much detail for sure. You're absolutely right, Adam. Yes, you've versed, but I got I got you. Part of me feels like, what kind of a sucker was I?

Yeah. Well, I mean, now look. I don't regret it now, of course not. But at the time, it's like, what was even going through my brain? Well, and obviously it was meant to be. Yeah, I don't think it meant to be. I don't regret it.

And you stuck it out with her for how long before it finally, because you guys didn't break that long ago. Wasn't that much before mind pump when you guys were broken up, right? So yeah, I think things were really officially over with her mom in 2012 actually. Okay, and that is how all this, how this really was like eight.

Oh, so you stuck around. But things had kind of gone south quite a bit in prior years. Okay, so you are very much her father, very involved, very much the man in her life. Oh, yeah. Oh, beyond that. I think there's speculation on our part

that when she gets to a age where she has a decision to live full time with her mom or you, I think she'd live with you. Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know if that's entirely true. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It's debatable. Yeah, you do a great job.

But I did not know that and I didn't know that you. So you stuck around for almost eight years trying to make it work, obviously, before it was obviously, yes. But I would say after your four things, it kind of degraded from out. So let's take a turn to now the fun talk, which is us. Oh yeah. Right. So let's talk about, let's start with fitness.

When did you, because you had a passion for fitness way before you ever met me? I mean, when I met you as, when you hired me as your trainer, you were far more educated on fitness than the average client. You knew a lot. When did that start? When did you fall in love with fitness? Well, as I mentioned before, my brother was into fitness. When he got into high school, he got into football and things like that.

So he started lifting weights and I started getting a little bit interested at that time. And then I think it was around nine, let me think, 1982 or so or 1981. I can't remember when the Rocky four came out. With the Russian or the one where he fights? Mr. T. No, with the Russian. It was a Russian?

Yeah, that's like 84, I think. Oh, that 84? So it's self-self-tilted. I maybe was, wait, with a, okay. Maybe it was Rocky three. Actually, that was July of 2001. okay, maybe it was Rocky 3 actually that was July of 2001 you told me it was Rocky 3 before it was Rocky 3. Yeah, that's when he's fighting Apollo That's right. It was Rocky 3

I So I saw So Vester Stallone I said man I would love to look like that because I thought that was like the ideal physique at the time and At that time my dad was also kind of getting into fitness. He bought a membership at a local club, a lifetime membership. And I started working out with my buddy.

And I would, I ordered up a bunch of muscle and fitness magazines. I was gonna do this, you know. When I, so that's my personality. For sure. If I'm into something, I'm fully into it. So I got all the muscle fitness magazines. I, in fact, I ordered a lot of the supplements off the back covers,

thinking this would be the thing that would actually take me to the next level. Yeah, you did the body for life challenge with all the supplements, for real stuff. Yeah, all of that stuff. But of course, none of that stuff worked. And I'd go work out, you know, like anybody, just getting started, I was pretty young at the time.

I put on some muscle when I first got going, but I just plateaued. And I would go to the gym all the time and I would just not grow. And I was so frustrated. I'd see these other guys in the gym and they were bigger and I go, what's going on? What's with them?

And I thought it was myself. You know, I just thought, oh, I didn't have the genetics for it. Now, you're still, you're working out, you're staying active because you never really stopped, right? And then what got you to, because I know you were referred to me by a chiropractor. And that's how we met.

What got you to that point? Because that's years later, right? Yeah, so I'd worked out on and off over the years. From the time I was about 17 years old up until the time I met you, I'd been working on, on and off at the gym. So even when I went to Japan, I wanted to gym and I found a local kind of a community gym

and I went there, but I wasn't consistent. But I did like to work out. And a lot of my workout was designed, number one to build muscle, but I worked out to try to burn calories. So I was not only working out, one of the things I consistently did over my life was cardio, running.

I ran and I ran and I ran. And until later years I got into tennis and I started playing tennis. So the idea was I was gonna burn calories so I could go out and have a good time and eat. But it never seemed to balance out, you know? I was always like 15 to 20 pounds overweight all that time. And even in, I think it was 2001 when I was doing the sales for the the offshore

seminars. Financial opportunities. I did the body for life challenge. And again like anything I do I got the book I got the journal I followed all the the meal plans. I bought the myelplex I think it was called. I took all the shakes, I did everything for three months, and I saw some benefit from that for sure. But yeah, so fast forward, though, by the time I had some back issues, that drove me to the chiropractor,

I don't think I was really working out a lot at that time. But I had a bad back, I went to a chiropractor He said, you know, I can help you but you've got some muscle imbalances and I know this trainer You should talk to this trainer's name is Sal. I know this guy And he can really help you. He wears purple tiny little underwear I don't do that in Chicago's last bread. Yeah. It's amazing. So I went I went to ABS fitness. Yeah. And I met this guy. He's hair was perfectly combed. He had a great ABS fitness shirt on. I remember he was wearing a Dita sweats and now were you enamored.

Now were you enamored right away or did it? did he grow on you? Well, I thought this guy is very professional. He was obviously muscular. So he looked the part. So I'm very rocky, very rocky-esque. That's a good challenge. Yes, definitely. Definitely. No, because I'm this type of person. If I'm going to hire somebody to do something, I want them to look the part. I wanted them, so he's a fitness guy and he's going to teach me how to build muscle and that type of thing. I want him to have some part. I wanted them, so he's a fitness guy and he's gonna teach me how to

build muscle and that type of thing. I want him to have some muscle. So I saw him go, this guy, yeah, he's very credible, very professional with this clipboard and he talked about the assessment on me. I was drawing pictures. Yeah, whatever the case may be. And of course, guess what came out at the end is like, okay, we can do 10 sessions or you can do close your close Close me now. Okay. Now you have a sales background. Yes. Yes. So do you smell it a mile away? Or are you already roped in? Did he? Well, I'm not a real shit. Did he rope and dope you good or or did I do remember? He is that's exactly right. He provided value for me. And so I in my mind I said, I should do some work with this guy.

And of course one of my questions is, of course I want to... So he wasn't a great closer. You just know. Well, he's probably a very good closer because he built the value and it was just a matter at that point of how much do you want to start with. How many sessions, 10 sessions, 20 sessions, 40 sessions, he had some breakdown, you know, discounts. Yeah. As you go up. Yeah.

But by that time, I was kind of sold on working with him. And of course, one of my questions was, I didn't want to just correct my back issue. I wanted to build some muscle. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to build some muscle. Yeah. And so I think he, I said, I'll start with a 10 session package. And so I bought the 10 session package, got going with the training, and after that point, I said, okay, I'm going to continue this. So I bought your 40 session package.

And I ended up buying that two or three or four times. I don't remember how many times I bought a 40 session package from you. And then I said to myself, why didn't I need to start earning some of this money back? You know, one thing I remember specifically was a conversation I had with you early on Doug where I had to convince you that you did not need to train lift weights more than twice a week. Do you remember that? Where you thought? Yes.

I remember you saying, okay, you can work out twice a week and I'm thinking to myself, is he? Is that's right? Is this really? Because I thought you had to work out, you know, five, six days a week. But probably knowing you, you're also intrigued because you're like, it's different, right? Of course. You tried a lot of things on your own and this is counter to what you've heard. Absolutely. And I felt like I needed to trust him. Yeah. And so I did. He's got to trust where he faced. Well, one of the things when I first met him,

the way he was talking, I've told Sal this before, he reminded me a little bit of Tony Robbins. Just a little bit. Cause I had done some seminars with Tony Robbins. The big awkward face. Yeah. Yeah, that thing. So the teeth.

The beak nose. Oh, it's so funny. Oh, it's so funny. The beak nose. Oh, it's so much. Oh, it's so much. The beak nose. Wow. But anyway, so I ended up signing up for the extra. So you sign up with him. You go to the training.

He's an amazing trainer. We know that. And well, you know, the funny about Doug is that he was convinced. He was a hard-gainer. Convince. Yeah, no, I remember. And he built, and the funny thing is,

he's far from a hard-gainer. The guy's built strength and muscle- built strength and muscle like you and I Responded we had we hadn't turned the dials correctly. I thought I was such a hard game or myself too Right as many as many kids think the same thing so You're training with how long is it into your training because now we're getting closer to when sound I get connected and when my Impumps are to connect how long have you been training when you finally tell him? Hey, man Why don't

you think about getting this online? Because at that point, I'm pretty sure it's out like me. It doesn't know how to turn his computer on. So you, how do you, where does that, how do you guys get there? I'm trying to recall how long it took. It was a few months. I didn't say anything about it. But from the time I met him, it's like, because I was very interested in internet marketing and I was trying to do some of my own things at the time, but it really wasn't working out because it does help to be an authority on a certain subject in order to be successful with that. And I had it back in my mind is that this guy is good. He has a good presence about him.

He's very knowledgeable. I think he could be a good frontman if we were to put something together. So I waited for a few months to pass. I wanted to let our relationship kind of develop. Oh, I didn't know you thought about this way before. Oh, yeah. Oh, so you were planning it. I was calculating minute. The minute you sold him his pack, your pack had used this day. Yeah. No, no, seriously though. And at one point I started to just drop the idea to you. Like, you know, if you ever... God, he's good. You know, the real closer.

He is so good. Exactly. He's not the real closer, right? Ninja Dug over there. I'll be honest, I was a little nervous that you wouldn't want to do it. Because one of the things I think a lot of people think is, well, I can do it myself.

Why would I want to pay anybody? Oh, I was smart enough to know I couldn't do shit by myself. Right. And you were smart enough to probably feed his ego a little bit first tell him how attractive he was I was already all that Yes, that's a thing like that and he said yeah I've thought about doing like an ebook or something like that and then that was it That's all I said no no ebooks. We got to get you on video Because this is where things are, right?

We need to have video. And so then you guys create the muscle switch. Well, actually before that, he says this, and I had nothing. I thought, okay, I thought about writing a book or something like that at one point. No, we gotta get you. I had no program, I had nothing.

Right, right. And I was like a week, and I remember it was just stuck in my head, and I always wanted to do something. And I liked Doug Obviously, he's a good guy. It's very trustworthy and I knew that I needed somebody to help me in that space because I had no idea what I was doing with that stuff and so I went home and for a week It just was in my head and we talked about a couple times and he says if you ever come up with something Let me know. It's literally told me you come up with something, let me know. It's literally you told me. You come up with something and he goes, just let me know.

And one night, I was up late and I'm reading the New England Journal of Medicine and I read the study and I get this idea and I create maps and a ballad. And I brought it to Doug and I said, let's test this out. Let's test out the trigger session concept. Let's test out this workout. I kind of train you like this anyway, but we're gonna add these new elements

and let's see what it looks like. And then we tested it on, I had a client. Jim, that tested it. I had some female trainer friends that tested it. And the results came back. People loved it. And then Doug's like, I'll do the internet part. I'll create the whole thing.

You just got to get on camera and talk. Okay, so I can talk. So now you guys shoot this. You guys even did a couple of your first little sales finals that had some success. And you're getting a little bit of traction. At what point does Sal mention me to you? When did I come up in conversations?

I was like, you think I'm handsome. Wait, he's got that. And he's an even bigger sucker than I. This is a circle dreamer. We'll get him to work for free. He's gorgeous. So, yeah, actually I remember Sal, we had been working on maps, I think. I don't know if we'd even started shooting it yet.

I remember you showing me your phone and this picture, this guy who on the stage posing. And he goes, yeah, I don't know how this conversation comes up, I do remember seeing Adam's image. So I don't even remember the context at this time, what that was. I think I remember, so I told you essentially, the program wasn't shot yet, because, I don't think so,

because Sal and I are talking back and forth. And at this time, he's going through, his mother in law is dying of cancer. That's right. And he's doing a lot of reading in marijuana. And we had already heard of that. That's how we connected. Yeah, it was over marijuana.

It wasn't even over really the maps. It was interesting. I mean, that came in, both came in the conversation. But really what started the back and forth was the marijuana talk. I was deep in the cannabis clubs. And at the same time, I was also simultaneously building my Instagram and making my way back into fitness, right? That was my vision. And then Sal had this thing that he had already created. And we were talking, we had been

already for weeks, you know, bullshitting about marijuana. He would share a study that had just came up and tell me something. I'd tell him about this strain or what I'm growing or what I was doing. And we just started to connect and bond on Facebook. And then he sends over one day, I believe it was the muscle switch. Was that the first one? Was it the first? No, it was, it might have been the infomercial, Doug.

Yeah, we shot like a 30 minute infomercial. Yeah, it was the long one. That's what it was. It was the long one. I'll never forget it. I, he sent it over to me and by this time, I, of course, I'd already heard great things of Sal from other friends that we have to meet,

we have to connect and at this time, Justin and I are doing our thing. I'm, I'm funding this app that Justin's basically doing all the work and building. Justin's building this app while I'm working the cannabis club, so him and I have this communication. He knows nothing about Sal yet and And I'm talking to Sal. And Sal sends us over to me. I'm upstairs in my living room. I fired up on my TV on the

big screen. And I watched the 30 minute. And I was just at that time, I'm already deep in the weeds of Instagram. And what I'm starting to piece together at this time, as I'm starting to grow my Instagram following is the messaging around the most popular fitness people. So the most famous at that time when Instagram was first getting started, all the people that had millions of followers were, many of them were young, good looking fit kids that were presenting a similar message that probably I presented when I was 22, 23. And not to knock them or shame them or whatever,

just that they had an evolve this trainer yet, yet they were making, I heard millions of dollars on e-commerce and I was fascinated by it with that. And I saw a huge opportunity for a better, the right message that somebody wasn't presenting because it wasn't as sexy. And you guys did such a good job of packaging this less sexy message,

but the right message that people needed to hear. And I called him right after that. I remember, I called him, we got on the phone, we talked forever and said, we gotta get together, we've got to meet. And I'll share with you what I'm doing, what I'm thinking, you can share with me, what you are.

And that was the first real meeting with all of us. And then I mentioned that I said, hey, I want to bring my friend Justin, who I'm working on an app with. I think he could be of value to this conversation. Yeah, because the way I talked to Doug, because Doug wasn't there for the first meeting. It was just us.

And I remember the way I presented it to Doug, as I said, look, I said, I know, there are people that I know very well who know and speak very highly of Adam. We're both, we have mutual friends. Larry Evans, for example, mutual friend, Jason Marcucci. Mark Jason Marcucci, these are great sales guys, great presenters.

Great man, too. Great guys, great guys, and they always spoke very highly of Adam, and then I had been talking to him a little bit, and that's why I sent you the first the map sales video because I thought if anyone's gonna be a good opinion and good feedback it's gonna be you and he did and then we got on the phone and so the way I presented it to Doug was I said look here's a deal if we're gonna sell this program we need some authority and one of the best ways to build authority, in my opinion, and I said this early on was, I want to be known for my words and the way I present information,

I don't want to be known for the way I look because at some point that's going to be gone, and it's not very valuable, I want to be on, I want to be able to talk and present myself, but how are people even going to want to listen to me? Who am I on the internet? I'm a nobody, and sure I can get ripped, but you put me on Instagram and I disappear compared to Reveils. Well, here you are. You're a pro-IFBB competitor. You had a little bit of a following on Instagram.

People already vouched for you, so I didn't really know you very well. Yet, those are the things I knew. So I told Doug I said worst-case scenario we start a podcast or we work with these with this guy He's gonna bring an audience and at least give us some authority. We have an IFBB pro Who's gonna create some authority? I will create some authority. We had not talked about selling maps Through any podcast or anything at that point. I just thought connecting with you. No, because our business was we're separate at this time.

We're separate. I said, this would be a great way to build some authority. Because if I can, you know, partner up with someone who's a pro just by association, I've got a little bit of a thought. So that's the way I told Doug. And then when we sat down and met, and of course everything went out the window

because we sat down and it just took off. We sat down and we talked for hours. And I remember, I called you Doug, I think on the way home. And I'm like, you gotta meet these guys. So you gotta share Doug now, your experience of learning about each of us. So you've learned about Sal now. You're about to go into, you know, this is a marriage, right?

We're married to each other, the four of us, right? Very much so now. It's a polygamist, yeah. Yes, it's more when. Yeah. So you like Sal already, you've created this thing. You're now considering getting into this marriage with myself and Justin.

What is that experience for you? I mean, are you cautious? Are you reluctant? Are you telling Sal behind closed doors? I don't know if, you know, this Justin guy seems pretty shady. Proof at. Yeah. I'm ever just and I was shady.

Yeah. Like, another cares mad crazy guy. Yeah. Great. So yes, very cautious. For one thing, we built Maps and a Ball. I can, it was a very long process to film it, to create the web pages. I mean, I did all of that.

I did everything. I went and did the WordPress site. I did the membership site. I shot all the film. I edited most of it. Right, you got a lot of work. I put so much of my heart and soul. So this was a baby.

Right. A baby. And I just wasn't going to go out and just give this baby to anybody else. So I just wasn't going to go out and just give this baby to anybody else. So I was extremely cautious. So when I met you guys, I of course was looking kind of sideways at you like, okay, who are these guys? You know, are these people that we really want to share the baby with?

But I also knew that we had been trying to sell MapsAnabolic for up until that time probably about a year. Oh, it would be a good year. Because we launched MapsAnabolic. I believe it was around October of 2013. We did some YouTube videos. Yes, we actually paid for some Facebook ads and things like that. And we also created the NoBS6Pack formula as our kind of our entry level program to kind of lead into maps and a ball like. And we're having some success with it.

We're selling some, okay, but we weren't gonna get rich anytime fast. And one of the things is, I felt we had a really good program, right? I thought we had the better mouse trap. And there's a saying, if you build a better mouse trap, people beat a path to your door.

Well, that's not true, because if they don't know about your better mouse trap, people will beat a path to your door. Well, that's not true, because if they don't know about your better mouse trap, nobody's coming, right? So people need to know about it. Just because you have something as great doesn't mean that people are gonna go out and buy it. Right, so as I was approached by Sal about this whole podcast concept

and bringing you to into the fold on this. I was reluctant, but I also said to myself, well, if things are not going the way I want them to go right now, we may need to shake things up a little bit. Now, do you remember this sound? Do you remember it? I mean, this is, I'm thinking of conversations that we're not around for. Are you a dog going like, well, let's just, we'll hang, we'll move slow with these conversations that we're not around for. Are we gonna go and like, let's just, we'll, hang, we'll move slow with these guys and we're not sure.

Well, yeah, if you recall, we didn't sell anything for a year on the podcast. Right, right, it was just the podcast. That's why it was okay was nobody was, I mean, one of the beautiful things about this was. There wasn't anything on the line except our time. Yeah. And again, this was my thought was worst case scenario.

We gained some authority and some visibility. People, at least more people are going to see us and know us. And I was confident enough, both Doug and I were very confident enough that I would present myself well enough to where it would be a plus. Anyway, obviously, though, when we did the podcast, it was, I mean, after the first podcast, we all felt it was something special. I wanna ask Doug this because we were off the rails in the beginning and we had a lot of fun

and you, you were very cool with it. You were very cool. At any point where you like, okay, this is a little too. Too much, too crazy. Yes, I was a bit nervous at times. I mean, again, I come from a very conservative family, very conservative parents and upbringing, and some of the conversation made me very uncomfortable.

Very uncomfortable. However, I said to myself, I'd need to let these guys be who they are. They're obviously new to this game, they're nervous, they're using some alcohol to calm their nerves. Little bit. But they have great chemistry. That's what I saw from day one.

I saw a very good chemistry between all of you and it was fun conversation and it was entertaining. And not only that, it was also valuable. So there was, I think that was like a magic combination. If you have something to value to say, something good to say, and you say it well, and it's fun and entertaining, that's kind of like a magic thing. That's kind of the X factor, right?

That can actually make something go viral, if you will. Now that's just, that's an aspect of this business, right? Obviously, the ability for us to have a conversation with this podcast is obviously the catalyst or the foundation of the business. But what was it like also unfolding? Because you're also getting a marriage with the whole business, right?

We're accounting together. We're buying stuff together. We're getting deep into that. We have to scale this business. Like, you know, do you recall what it was like to watch all of us kind of fall into our roles in the business and was, you were ever worried about, oh God, with these three personalities, are they going to be fighting over who's in charge of this? So do you remember all that stuff going through your head?

Yeah, that's always a concern. The thing that can derail something good like this is some type of division within the ranks. If somebody felt like, oh, I'm putting all the time and energy into this, and you're not putting time and energy into this, or you're getting all the time on the podcast, I'm not getting time on the podcast, or we should go by this crazy thing here and nobody else agrees. If there's that type of division in the group, we wouldn't be here right now. So yeah, I was very concerned about that,

but as I saw everybody's personalities kind of meld and meshed together, over time, I was able to relax a lot. And now of course, I'm completely comfortable about this. But you know, as I've looked back on this, what I understand now is that it's values driven. So, we all possess, even though we're very different in many ways, we all possess core values that we share, and they're extremely important to each and every one of us. And one of them obviously is integrity. We're all hard workers. We all value creativity and being passionate about what we do.

So we have all these values that we share. And so that negates any of the small differences that don't really matter. And I think that's true for any relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship or something else. As long as your core values are aligned, you can overlook a lot of other things. So fortunately, we have been able to grow in a very positive way together. We've been able to really come together as really as kind of a single unit here. And everybody just kind of does what they do best. a single unit here and everybody just kind of does what they do best. And in the end of the day, we all have the same goal and the same outcome that we're trying to achieve.

You, so okay, in six years now, we've been together or coming up on six years, do you have favorite moments of each of us, like that you recall, whether that be like a moment of realization that like, oh, I really liked this guy or I really like what we're doing together or, you know, really feeling like someone came through, I've, you, recall, you know, pivotal moments within the six years of feelings for each other like that. Boy, that's, that's tough because there's been a lot of things have happened over the past six years. Yeah.

So I'll just say, like, for example, Justin, the thing I really appreciated about Justin is his sense of humor, right? I really align with Justin's sense of humor, and if people have not figured it out yet, he's a little bit twisted. If you've seen the Magic Spoon commercial or some of the other things, we just, but I appreciate that.

That's kind of my sense of humor as well. I like little things on the edge, a little dark sometimes. So I really appreciate that. But I could also, you know, I don't think it's necessarily individual situations that made me feel the way I do now. I think it's been a cumulative fact, effect. Over time, I've just seen each of you deal with so many different circumstances

in the way you handle it and to see that you've done it with integrity. I mean, I see you, Adam, on the phone and I really appreciate your confidence. And the one thing about you is you never let anything get in your way. Whether you can pronounce a word or not doesn't matter. You do it. You peril through it. And you have, there's no shame. You know, that is amazing. I think everybody, if you could just do the same thing that Adam does, your life will be so much better. Totally. And your barriers and walls and everything will be broken down. For me, I've been very much a perfectionist. So I've oftentimes waited for that very perfect moment

to do things, but that's not when things get done. Because there's never a perfect moment. It's all about taking some type of action and to be swift with it and just do it. So I mean, I hear you're on the phone with sponsors and things like that and you're asking tough. And you have no problem doing that. And I admire that for sure. And then, of course, you know, Sal is, I've had a much longer relationship with you. But Sal is this person. He's a very nurturing person. I see how he is with people that are having a hard time and he's got a very open heart.

He'll say some crazy things at times, but that's just in fun. But in reality, he's a very soft-hearted person that really knows how to build relationships. And so I've really appreciated that. But I think all of you I can say without hesitation that you're all exemplary individuals. I think we all, as different as we all are too, I feel, or at least I feel this way about each of you individually, that there's something I really connect with each of you.

Like there's something about each one of you that I see myself in a little bit. Do you feel that same way too? Like when you look at each one of us, like you did that really well with Justin. Like you made that, like you guys have that major connection. Is there something in each one of us? Yeah, it's a lot of relate to you for sure, Doug. Right.

Yeah, well I know for you Adam, you and I, we both share the interest in the business aspect of things, growing a business, scaling a business, and we often have conversations around this. So this is kind of the thing that you and I share a lot, these type of conversations. And of course, Sal, I mean, I really appreciate your interest in health and fitness, in the science,

and everything behind that, because I spent years, I read a lot. I mean, I've, for a lay person, I know a lot about a lot of things in the health and fitness space. And I really connect with Sal on that is like getting in kind of the nerdy aspects of fitness and health and really understanding the human body and how to optimize it. So these are things that I really share with Sal, and I guess that's just one thing, but there's a lot of things.

Right, right, right. No, I agree. I think that's something that we all have. I see that with all of you guys, for sure. Yeah, there were, as you're talking, there were two moments that specifically specifically for me where I said, oh, this is going to be a good thing. The first, a lot of people might not know this.

We've talked about this on the podcast, but initially when we started, there was another host who started with us. We never aired those episodes, but it was Craig, our friend Craig, and he had the largest social media following out of all of us. He had the most authority. He was assigned athlete, and nobody talked about it,

but I think all of us kind of thought, okay, he's gonna bring us the initial audience. And then we had that phone call where he said, I'm not gonna do this, guys. We can't air these episodes. I'm gonna drop out. He's afraid of losing his sponsorship money. And when we got that, I might have been through text if I'm not gonna do this guys. We can't air these episodes. I'm gonna drop out. He's afraid of losing his sponsorship money. And when we got that, I might have been through text

if I'm not mistaken. We got that text. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, I'm gonna need to get on the phone and rally the troops and motivate everybody because I don't wanna stop doing this. And we got on a conference call, all of us. And before I could say a word,

Adam already had said that, right, we're out the gates. All right, we're going to keep going anyway. Let's just, just as like, I'm on board. And right at that moment, I realized, oh, this is going to be a good thing, because at that time, it could have been a crushing, it felt like it could have been a crushing blow. Or there goes our exposure. Yeah, at that time, that was the best thing we had working for us. Totally. And the second thing was about a year

into the podcast, when we decided that we were going to sell our programs, because you guys had a nutrition survival guide you had created, Doug and I had created maps and a ballac. There was no question that we were going to sell the programs, and it was going to be all of ours. It was no, it's mine, it's yours, you get this percent. There wasn't even a discussion.

It was, we're gonna do this and that, and that's the way it's gonna be. All of us understood and valued each other's value. So there's never been that question where it's like, but I created this, I spent all the time, and I'm gonna get, all of us were like, it was a very rare thing. Very rare and those are the two,

those are the two things that stand out to me. Like those two things happen and I was like, oh yeah, this is forever, this is a big thing. Do you remember standout moments for you Justin? With Doug or was it all you guys? Just in general with the business, I mean, I know he's transitioned from the talking of Doug's story and the business, but we're here now.

Yeah, I mean, again, that's a big one is, you know, once we kind of dwindled it down to the three of Doug's story and the business, but we're here now. Yeah, I mean, again, that's a big one, is once we kind of dwindled it down to the three of us and how that whole dynamic was gonna go, we were kind of thinking about the flow and how we were gonna get traffic. But honestly, I had no reserves about it at all. I just felt like it was so much fun. We were just having so much fun in the beginning

and we had so much in common, we had so much to tackle. I felt like there was never a shortage of conversations that were going to happen after that. So I just, it was kind of a strange thing. I just knew it was going to take off. I remember us talking amongst each other about like why we weren't bigger than we were. That was like always the conversation. And I firmly believe that. You know, I really did. You have to be a little delusional. That's what they say. Right. True. You have to be a little delusional for sure. I just loved our, I loved the, the group's synergy, the,

the confidence like I could feed off of you guys because I, you know, it's just when you're around people that excel in things, it just elevates you. Everybody in here has elevated me as a human being. And that's just like, it's one of those things. It's such a rare combination of different pieces that all kind of came together. But that's just something I've only felt that one or two other times, and that was with the best teams I've ever been on that we won championships with. And this has that same dynamic. Selflessness.

Do you have any moments like that? Yeah, so I have this moment that I share, you know, every once in a while and this question gets asked like, so I get a question asked pretty common when I get interviewed and it's, you know, when did you guys feel like you made it? You know, like when did you like feel like you had arrived

or you had made it or the business with, and you know, it's a really special moment for me when this happened. And it speaks to all of our personalities at the same time. And that was, I was having a conversation with Cassie. And Cassie, for the listeners that don't know, runs customer service on the back end. And Cassie, Cassie, feels anywhere from 50 to about 100 emails a day. And people that go through our programs, if you have other questions or you don't know

what you're doing or you're struggling with something or you can't do an exercise, you can always email in and we have support. And we have software so we can see how many programs somebody own and when they bottom and all these details, right, so she's having a conversation with a customer that owns three of our programs. She's currently going through one of them.

I don't remember which one it was. And Cassie's responding to her and she references something that you or I said in the podcast. I can't remember it was me. I think when I tell the story, I tell it as me, but it might have been you. Like, oh, when did, you know, Sal said,

when you do this or this or that, like that, that you should do this, you know? And the response that the lady gave was, who the hell is Sal, you know, or who the hell was Adam, I don't remember which one it was. And that was a really special moment for me. And the reason why that was such a special moment and how it speaks to our personalities was,

the one of the things that where I knew we had something very special and back to your story with Craig is that the four of us never wanted it to be about us. We didn't even want it at all. The desire always was, can we build something so valuable that it'll live on well beyond us and be greater than any of us? And none of us wanted to limelight.

None of us wanted to be instant famous or be the celebrity on YouTube. Like nobody wanted that. And when that moment happened that we had somebody who had spent a few hundred dollars on our business and been with us for over a year and didn't know who the hell, Sal or Adam was, that was a very special moment for me. That to me, it signified that we were in the direction or we're on our path of what I thought was so important if we were gonna build something as grand

as we all believe from day one, it would be, which is, it is. It's bigger than who we are, it's bigger than us. It's bigger than any of us individually. And I think that only works when the owners or the creators want that, you know, and that doesn't happen a lot. And it doesn't seem to have, it seems to be very rare today, more so than ever. I feel like, you know, the formula today that's taught to this generation coming up is, you

know, build yourself as insta-famous, and, you know, it needs to be all about you. And even all these little things that you go these like you know influencer groups and shit they you know they encourage you to be on your stories all the time and constantly it's all about you it's all about you and you know one thing that I I loved about all you guys is it was never about any of us you know the stories you're all sharing about the programs and you know and then with Craig and you know nobody wanting to be the man. I mean, shit, we didn't even have a real formal minutes, CMO, CFO type of conversation

to like three years through the business. Which by the way, any business professor would tell you that's like, just like this. Right, they would say to you right away, like you wanna fail, don't be organized, don't, and we didn't. But it's not because we were disorganized. It was that nobody cared to insert themselves into, assert themselves into a role and say,

I'm this position, you're that position. We all just, we wanted to be better. We wanted it to be better than bigger and better than us. And yeah, that moment was a big deal for me. It was a really big deal. And I remember going like, this is cool. This is cool that somebody has invested in something that we have created and put out there into the ether.

Has no idea who we are. It's no idea who we are. That's so awesome. Well, I want one last thing I want to say, Doug, is that you're your silent, but very supportive, strong leadership on the back end is really phenomenal and it's it's so Effective, okay, it's because what you're dealing with and you know, you know this better than anybody. You're dealing with three headstrong

Kind of you know whatever word you want to use alpha You know bowls and had you gotten in front of us and told us what to do, what not to do, and how to do it, and it would have never worked. You did it so effectively, so subtly, that I can only recognize it in hindsight. I can only look back, it's true. I look back and go, Doug was very quietly guiding

and shifting the show and allowing us to develop our voices and what we say and how we do it in a way that was so effective that none of us even noticed. Now he does have a resentment. No, I have to add to that, right? He does this very subtle way. And it gives like a sense. Well, yeah, it speaks to his brilliance of knowing that.

Like, here's something that like, and I have this too, Sal's worse than me though, I believe. Like, we both have these personalities where, even if it's what's best for us or what we should do, if you tell us that you're gonna have to do it, we just, it's in our blood to go against the grain.

So I feel like Doug knew that early and never did that to either you or I never or Justin either none of us like he never said stop doing that or that's bad or never took a hard stance. He would do the subtle like, you know, I think we should pull back a little bit or read it. Yeah. Yeah.

I think we should pull back a little bit on the epiton. Yeah, or maybe maybe stop with the masturbation joke so much. Yeah. You know, I think we should lighten up on the politics, you know, like, so he would give these real sudden, and of course, would the natural response, right? No, I think it's good, Doug. Yeah. That's why I think we should do it.

And we would, we would, and we'd push back and he would allow the push back and then he'd circle back again and kind of drop it again, circle back again. And then eventually, I feel like we would conform. And, you know, so I feel like he's been masterfully steering this ship this whole time, but doing it in a very silent and subtle way. Totally, like a sensei, 100% like a sensei. So, I think part of it is is I hate being told what to do too

So you relate so I relate and I know if you tell me to do something or tell me I'm doing something wrong I'm not gonna respond well to that. I may end up conforming at some point, but I'm gonna be resentful Right So ultimately I I always think the best way to get people to change is to make it their idea And so if you can just provide enough fodder to create that feeling that, oh yeah, maybe we shouldn't be doing so many dick jokes. Then that's the way I like it because then that's when real change will take place. It's a beautiful thing when you know that the other person or persons are they have a deep desire to be better and to grow as individuals

because you're right. If you surround yourself around other people, and this just goes for anyone listening, not even just talking about business and just friendships and relationships, if you surround yourself with other people that have a deep desire to be better, eventually they'll get to that. And pushing them in that direction is not the way you need to go with that person. That person is already seeking growth, seeking to be a better person. Eventually they'll get around to it

and whether you put a lot of thought into knowing that or thinking about that, it's wisdom. Yeah, it definitely. Yeah, it is. It definitely is our wise one. That's definitely the right word. Yeah. Well, this has easily been my favorite interview.

Well, thank you. Easily my favorite interview that we've done. Yeah, a lot of stuff I didn't know. I'm glad we did it. Cool insight. Yeah, it was kind of off the cuff idea, but I tell you what, I learned stuff today, so that was cool. Yeah, man.

Thanks for doing it, Doug. Thanks for having me on the show. Super producer, Doug! Yeah. Awesome. Look, you can find My Imp. Super producer, Doug. Yeah. Awesome. Look, you can find Mind Pump on YouTube. So find us Mind Pump podcast. You can also find all of us on social media.

We're on Instagram and parlor. You can find Justin at Mind Pump, Justin. Me at Mind Pump, Sal. Adam at Mind Pump, Adam and Doug at Mind Pump, Doug. And if you follow Doug on Instagram, you can see a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. What a producer needs to do to create and produce the number one fitness podcast in the world.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and I'm in Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price.

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