Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1482: Canceled With Bryan Callen

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You are listening to the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. Now, in today's episode, we got the chance to talk to Brian Callan. He's a comedian, very well known for the podcast that he started, Fighter in the Kid. He has a new podcast, by the way, Big and Hungry. Make sure you go check that out. Anyhow, this guy was on the other end of cancel culture.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Had some accusations made against him, no evidence that anybody knows of and lost almost everything, but he didn't go down without a fight. In today's episode, we talked to him about all that, plus cancel culture in general. We talked about how comedy is the last bastion of free speech and much more. We had a very, very fun conversation with this gentleman. He's hilarious, he's very entertaining.

Starting point is 00:01:01 We know you're gonna enjoy this episode. Make sure you go check out his podcast, Big and Hungry. He also has another podcast on Patreon called Conspiracy Social Club. This is the one I'm gonna listen to, where he actually debates conspiracy theorists. So that sounds pretty fun. You can also find him online at brioncalon.com.

Starting point is 00:01:18 That's b-r-y-a-n-c-a-l-l-e-n.com. And then of course, you can find them on Instagram at Brian Callin. Now before the episode starts, I'll let you know that this episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors, FourSigmatic. FourSigmatic makes supplements based off of medicinal mushrooms. They're the best medicinal mushroom supplement company out there. They do have a dual extraction process, so if you want to use something, let's say, like, you want to improve your stamina and your endurance, you want to get better pumps in the gym. So you want to use cordyceps. Four-sigmatic cordyceps is the best one that I've ever

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Starting point is 00:02:24 It includes Maps Performance, which is an athletic based workout program to shape and sculpt your body with mobility movements and functional exercise. With it comes maps aesthetic, a body builder inspired workout program where you can kind of pick the areas your body you really want to focus on, shape and sculpt, combine them to the two programs and what you get is a very functional, aesthetic looking physique. Now, normally if you got both programs that retail would cost you almost $300, but right now you can get them both in the Phase 2 bundle for $79.99. That's it. One payment, you get lifetime access.

Starting point is 00:03:00 Go check them out. Go to maps, February.com. That's maps, M-A-P-S-F-E-B-R-U-A-R-Y.com. Brian, I got a couple of questions on ask you, before I do a little bit of a statement, you know, I've read in the past that when the gesture in the court of the king, when the gesture gets thrown in jail or the dungeon or gets killed,

Starting point is 00:03:23 that's when people need to be careful, that's when stuff's going bad. And you know, that's because the rulers were always afraid of satire because humor is powerful. Well, I was gonna say, comedies like the last bastion of free speech, it's the canary in the coal mine.

Starting point is 00:03:40 And I've been a fan of comedies since I was a kid, and I can't remember a time when comedy been more under attack and Kevin Hart was taken, he wasn't allowed to present at a big awards ceremony because of a tweet he did, Years prior, I know Dave Shapell was under attack for some of his jokes, Ricky Jervais, you know, Hammered, what do you think is going on?

Starting point is 00:04:05 I don't remember comedians ever being attacked. It's never, it may have never been different. It's just that now, you know, sort of the cult of the amateur, you've got, everybody's got a voice. And so you can mount a lot of noise at something, but art has always disturbed. It's got a voice. And so you can mount a lot of noise at something, but art has always disturbed. It's supposed to disturb. It's supposed to bother you.

Starting point is 00:04:31 When Picasso went through his cubist phase and he was painting and deconstructing the human face, et cetera. That was, that was, where Dali was talking about bending time. After Einstein talked about the theory of relativity and times a Time was it was called Jewish science because he said time is actually relative. It's a relationship between two mathematical equations If you're going at the speed of light it changes or it stands still people were like this is against God's word That in itself was reflected by Dali's paintings. When, I think it was Stravinsky, did rights of spring in Paris, I think it was 1900.

Starting point is 00:05:10 He had, if you ever listened to the rights of spring, it's this weird, it's like this, there's no scale to it. It's this musical, it's very off-putting. Like jazz. Yeah, but it is. It's really a weird, and then he had the dancers come out and they were dressed half-man half-beast. They had their shirts off. It was so disturbing that there was a riot in the streets of France. They fucking lost their minds. So I think if your job as a comic

Starting point is 00:05:41 is, you're welcome for that history lesson first of all. I appreciate it. But I think as a comic is, you're welcome for that history lesson, first of all. I appreciate it. But I think as a comic, man, the minute you start cow-towing or giving voice to people who are offended, you're in deep trouble. So my job is to just keep speaking and keep, and it is, you're right, it's very easy to cancel people. For something they said. And they were, you know, you were no longer allowed to say what you don't mean, which is, by the way, something called a joke. You have to be very careful. I will never be

Starting point is 00:06:16 careful. And I think, whoa, to anyone who does and you're right, you're right. The minute we start, being, I never liked being mean. I never told gay jokes actually, even in the 90s. And I only did that because I just didn't like making fun of somebody who was, I knew there was probably going to be gay people in my audience. It just never made me, it always bummed me out. I'd hear people using the F word and stuff. And for me, I was like, dude, there's probably like four people in the room

Starting point is 00:06:42 who've been made fun of their whole life. And now you're, and they're here to laugh, and now you're making fun of them. And I never liked that, never got to me. I understand not being mean, but telling the truth, making fun of how insane this whole world is, the woke veil keeps changing the rules on us. It's not enough to be not racist.

Starting point is 00:07:02 Now you have to be anti-racist. It's not enough to be, you have to shut up and listen, but then silence is violence. So we don't know how to follow any of these rules. You know, a lot of the examples you brought up in the past were before we really, because valued individual liberty, right? Before we had laws that said, you should be able to speak however you want, and the speech itself is not a crime, right? That's that happened a little later. We have that now But it seems like it's going backwards and you did you mentioned something that's very interesting

Starting point is 00:07:33 You said that the wokeville's changing speech constantly. That's a characteristic of Marxism that's what they did in the Soviet Union. They would change speech so much to the point where people were like Psychologically like psychologically like, all right, you tell us what's good and what's not good. And we'll just do what you say. And is this where you at all? Yeah, it worries me, but it also is wonderful because it gives all of us something to push back on.

Starting point is 00:07:56 And it's part of the grand experiment called the United States. Remember, this is a, this country is an idea. It's a verb. It's a, it's a beautiful idea. The Eric Weinstein said something so brilliant in this podcast. He said, the magic of America is you are allowed to burn the flag.

Starting point is 00:08:14 You have no interest in burning. And that's a really powerful statement. And he's way more eloquent and smarter than I am. But I thought about that for a long time. It does worry me. Bad ideas are always going to be around, and they will always be repackaged in different ribbons and different paper, but you've got to recognize them. The good thing about reading history, the important thing about being educated,

Starting point is 00:08:45 is it teaches you the difference between a good idea and a bad idea. And there are a lot of bad ideas coming out of the universities because there's no way to implement them. There's no way to make sense of them at the level of detail. There just isn't meant.

Starting point is 00:08:59 No, and what's weird to me is, obviously, fitness is my profession and when I would manage gyms, I've been doing this for decades. I'd get these trainers at a college who had extensive degrees and biomechanics and human performance, sports medicine. And they were always terrible trainers

Starting point is 00:09:17 for about two or three years. Because you needed experience. And then as an entrepreneur, people come in at a business school. They've never started a business. They're terrible compared to the kid who's been trying at business for a while. So I feel like the universities are a bunch of people telling you in theory never have done. Yeah, because somebody, this isn't my idea, but somebody who's talking about,

Starting point is 00:09:40 it might have been Douglas Murray or Nessine Taleb. And he said, the academics are in the business of deconstructing. They're in the business of being on the outside and they don't do anything. They sit around and read and theorize that that's fine. You need that. But what they're in the business of doing is deconstructing.

Starting point is 00:09:57 They look at a system and they deconstruct it. They don't construct anything. The rest of us are busy trying to build a life. Think about it trying to get in shape. Think about building any skill or a business. You gotta construct anything. The rest of us are busy trying to build a life. Think about trying to get in shape. Think about building any skill or a business. You gotta construct it. It takes a long time, man. Like you gotta just manage personalities

Starting point is 00:10:13 and you gotta look at the marketplace and come up with a product people want, figure out how to get it out there, and figure out how to make sure, and then it's faulty and you gotta have a recall. There's a thousand things you gotta do, and it's really hard to make a buck. That's not the case when you have tenor

Starting point is 00:10:26 as a professor. You're able to sit back and go, here's what's wrong, this is what if we did this, but you're not, it's exactly like what I love about fighting is that you can be, you're a black belt and show to con karate, cool. You're a black belt and kung fu, whatever it is, awesome. Now get into a fucking ring

Starting point is 00:10:45 and see how you can defend a double leg, motherfucker. Yeah. Or just get punched in the face. Yeah, or if you're an amazing, you're amazing at Jiu Jitsu, but then you get into, I remember the friend of mine, I mean, this really amazing Jiu Jitsu guy was kind of getting lippy with my friend, who was a fighter. You were like a real MMA fighter,

Starting point is 00:11:03 and my friend looked at him and goes, hey bro, I'm a fighter. You're a real MMA fighter. And my friend looked at me and goes, hey, bro, I'm a fighter. Are you forgetting that right now? You're awesome at Jiu-Jitsu, but I'm a fighter. It's a different thing. So, you know, there's something very honest about what actually works. You as a trainer know that if I come to you and I go, dude, I'm, you know, I only do body, body, you know, movements and I'm doing yoga, but I'm getting, I have a toy. You would have a point, you'd be like, I know, Brian, that's all awesome, but your orthodoxy is no good here. Let me, if you want to get, you want to put muscle on, there's a science to that. And you know

Starting point is 00:11:39 that from years of experience, you could probably look at me and go, you're genetically not predisposed to put a lot of muscle on, so we gotta do this at any other thing. I mean, it goes back to experience. It goes back to getting into contact with objective reality, objective reality. You wanna be a good comic? Get up and find other comics and find audiences,

Starting point is 00:11:58 and you'll know when you're good, because they'll laugh. Well, you know, there's a history of, for a long time, a lot of people don't know this, but academics and intellectuals being at odds with merchants, capitalists and business people. And I think part of that is, first and foremost, you're really smart, it's hard to see somebody who's not as smart as you figure things out and do well.

Starting point is 00:12:19 So there's always that type, oh, yeah, they, they're not that smart, but look, they're making all that money, we're over here, we know everything, type of deal. And then the second thing is I think the shadow side of high intelligence is a level of narcissism to where you think you can plan everything better. Like, oh, I know they've been doing it this way

Starting point is 00:12:35 for a couple hundred years. I know how to do it better. Just follow my way. It's that shadow side of intelligence. Yeah, and that's always really dicey, man, because if you're gonna have a revolution and you to tear down institutions that have been there a long time What are you gonna replace it with, man? You better know what's usually worse always or it breaks into factionalism and civil war This is what I worry about you know your institutions came about you know, they were scaled to

Starting point is 00:13:05 came about, you know, they were scaled to human beings and to the progress of how we kind of learn things. It takes a long time. If you're gonna start dismantling things like the police, I mean, and the FBI and the justice system, oh my God. You better have something to replace it with. And I am not ready to do that. I revere the founding fathers. Yes, they were flawed individuals, but man, oh man,

Starting point is 00:13:29 I think they solved the political problem. What's fucking amazing about this country is not just that we have a decentralization of power. No one has, no one can hold power. That the founding fathers were, the bicameral legislature, you've got the executive, you've got the judicial, you've got the legislative branch. It was meant to be a slow cumbersome process

Starting point is 00:13:51 where everybody is vying for influence. That's how they stay out of our lives, man. Because you don't want any, you don't want power to concentrate in one area. Historically, we know how that always turns out. And that's what's, in that sense, that's what I think is so incredible about defounding fathers is they solve the political problem

Starting point is 00:14:12 in that even people who are on the far left are using language that was essentially invented or concepts about liberty, about personal sovereignty, all these things, all these things were already thought about by philosophers and people who were, the children of those philosophers like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and Madison,

Starting point is 00:14:41 and that's fucking really important stuff. They came up with something that works for us. It works. It's, it's, it's, it's, you have to be very careful. So is this just a natural progression for us? Are we just seeing the pendulum swinging one way? Do you, do you, are you have an optimistic view of this or is this a scary time, do you think?

Starting point is 00:14:57 I think it's both. I don't, I, I try to remind myself that, you know, America's always been a country where we've had debate and we've had left and right and I think you need both. Jordan Peterson said something really great about the left. He said, the right is you need free markets, you need capitalism, you need competition. But there are people that fall through the cracks. Those people, they need help and they just can't compete.

Starting point is 00:15:24 They're too fragile. I have, you know, I've loved people like this way. And sometimes you need a net, you need a safety net, you do, you need people who have bleeding hearts and you need social services and things. I really believe that. So God bless both sides. What I'm terrified of is not just the attack on free speech, which is so important, the way you combat free speech you don't like is with more free speech in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:15:53 What I really am worried about, and I think is new, is the fact that you can purify your echo chamber. Like social media allows you to create your own truth, man. And those algorithms send you down a rabbit hole, and that polarizes the fuck out of all of them. It is mob mentality now on steroids. Because the psychology of mob mentality, we've known for a long time.

Starting point is 00:16:16 This is why riots happen in sporting events or concerts. But now you're online, and now you can create that frenzy so much easier. I mean, look, I'm old enough to remember when no one thought the earth was flat. All of a sudden you have the internet and now you can find enough people who think the same thing. Dude, I have a lot of movement. I have a podcast on Patreon and it's called the Conspiracy Social Club. I debate, I debate, I debate conspiracy theorists, okay? I've had a flat earther on. I've had a Kim Trill's guy on. And I had a guy about the occult in Hollywood.

Starting point is 00:16:52 Patreon.com slash Brian Kown. But but but but but but but uh but uh but sneak peak on big and hungry podcast coming to coming everywhere February 7th everybody. Big and hungry podcast me and Steve burn funny anyway but sneak peek on patreon but but I've I debate these people and do their dead serious yeah they're dead I mean I've had and I'll and smell your first you built a rocket never there but they're also not scientists they've not had a schooling in the field that they have these strong opinions

Starting point is 00:17:18 on yeah and and it's no matter what you say to them and I try to just ask questions you're not getting anywhere with them. There is a serious group of conspiracy theorists and they take this shit very seriously. I don't even know what to say about it. I love doing it though, I love debating them. I'll probably be kicked off video or Patreon soon because you're not allowed to be talking about conspiracy.

Starting point is 00:17:39 Well, we brought you on, Brian. I mean, I've been a big fan for a long time and we've listened to Fighter and the Kid, big inspiration for us. You guys are like, the most honest podcast we heard out there. And I was just like, yeah, and I just want you to go through this and like, what happened and, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:55 what that looks like now? You mean, Fighter and the Kid? Yeah, it's Fighter and the Kid. We literally used to, when we started the show, five years ago, Fighter and the Kid is one of our inspiration. It's the chemistry and the banter and the way you guys put together. Well, it was so hard, it years ago, fight on the kid is one of our inspiration. The chemistry and the ban turn, where you guys put it in.

Starting point is 00:18:06 Well, it was so hard. So Brennan and I are still very close. We talk every day. And what was so hard was when you get canceled, when somebody just makes up lies about you, you can't do anything about it anymore. And you have to just, I went on the offensive,

Starting point is 00:18:21 and I was never gonna be quiet about it, because it was just insane. So I went on the offensive, I said, gonna be quiet about it because it was just insane. So I went on the offensive and I said I'm not going away like everybody else. Fuck this because I know who I am and so does everybody else I know. But what happens is with cancel culture, corporations, your sponsors go, we can't right now, we just don't want to, we're afraid. Yeah, because you had an allegation, right? There was no evidence, no nothing, just someone said something.

Starting point is 00:18:47 Twenty-one years old. Yeah, like twenty-one years ago, right? Yeah. And what was the first thing that happened when you... How did you know, oh shit, this is different? I think it was like eight hours before that, my lower caldman said, there's, there's, they're writing a story. And, you know, you just hear that there,

Starting point is 00:19:01 all you hear is that there are allegations. And when I read him, I went're this is stuff I they said I said You got to remember that that the the these two of them said I said something It wasn't even a nothing physical. It was what I said and then a woman from 1999 had an allegation and and and I was like and the first thing I said I went who? That's not possible. It made no sense. But you don't know the detailed story they're gonna tell. You don't know any of that.

Starting point is 00:19:30 If that was the case, I could have mounted an attack. I could have been like, this is fucking crazy. But all you can do when somebody does that and you have an activist who's a journalist, because these people are activists, they're not journalists. All you can do, and they know who you are. They, you're the enemy. I speak too much, I talk too much.

Starting point is 00:19:48 And then people know my politics. I'm not even, you know, it came to call me right wing. I'm just a guy who believes in freedom and individual responsibility and those things. I'm fucking socially liberal as fuck, you know? But it doesn't matter. You're, I was lumped in with a group of people who were considered problematic.

Starting point is 00:20:09 That's what happens. And I was told that. I was told to shut up by people. Were you told that before him? Yes. Yes. Because I was told by some pretty smart, intelligent, powerful people from the stuff that you would talk about

Starting point is 00:20:21 on fighters. Sure. And I'm wroging and stuff like that. And I was like, and I was like, Really? Fuck off. I got nothing, I'm got nothing to hide. I'm been a good guy my whole life.

Starting point is 00:20:30 Yeah. Well, you know, I'm not, whatever the case, we can trace that back to, you know, Chris and I had a, Chris Lee and I had a show on Netflix. So, you know, you get lumped in with all this stuff. What happens is, my podcast after seven years that I built, seven years, they go seven years they go the sponsors go we we can't Your agent causing says this nobody nobody will sponsor right now like all of them all my brother

Starting point is 00:20:55 Because everybody's got dirt everybody everybody's terrified. Well, I'll explain what it is. It's like McCarthyism But my brother my brother who I built a podcast with seven years, we had to walk away. I had to protect him, I had to get away, because otherwise his sponsors would jump. And so that's what fucking happens. And what happens is, listen, if you can come after somebody, after 21 fucking years, where you're like, what?

Starting point is 00:21:18 Yeah, what? What'd you do with that? Everybody, it's a verbal thing. I thought it was actually, 21 years ago was an was actually a physical. But I mean, again, what do you think I was walking around like, what do you think I got away with something? Do you think I'm a psycho? Was I wearing a stocking over my head? What are you out of your fucking mind? There's no way to defend yourself against this insanity. So you're guilty until, I mean, it's like, you know, every guy that you know who's a comic

Starting point is 00:21:49 or every, every, every powerful man in Hollywood, everybody is including a lot of women who have husbands and sons and brothers, everybody goes, they're terrified. If they can come after me, they can come after anybody, they just can't. And that's They just can. And that's a terrifying place to be because every guy goes like this, they go, I did it a crazy girl in college, but I wonder if she's got, you know. She just says, right. Dude, 21 years later.

Starting point is 00:22:15 Wow, so are you kidding me? So this is when allegations become weaponized. And don't kid yourself, it all goes away. And don't kid yourself, It's about murdering you. This is about murder. This is about when you talk about cancelling people, it's what it really means is we want to make sure you never work again and you're on the street. And you can't feed your children, you can't pay your mortgage. It's nothing other than that. It's nothing less than total and an absolute devastation.

Starting point is 00:22:44 Don't tell me about, you know, if you're a real scumbag, nothing other than that. It's nothing less than total and an absolute devastation. Don't tell me about, you know, if you're a real scumbag, if you're a Harvey Weinstein or a Bill Cosby, yeah, man, I get it. I get it. The evidence is too overwhelming. Fuck off. Get outta here, go to jail.

Starting point is 00:22:56 Otherwise, though, you know, if people are getting canceled over a tweet, I'm talking about a tweet. Read the madness of the crowds. A tweet, you, you somebody put, and it was like, I, I, I didn't think about it. I was fat shaming someone, but I didn't realize it. And you got to save your career sometimes. This is a very dangerous thing.

Starting point is 00:23:13 Now, did you, did you, did you have ownership in the show and did you, how did you, you have to sell it or just bounce? No, no, no, I'm still, I'm still, you know, I'm still in one, but, but it's, it's, it's something that I worry about for my children, I worry about for everyone. This is something that, and I think a lot of people are worried about it, and I think most people can't stand this cancel culture shit.

Starting point is 00:23:37 I mean, that's all I hear. Yeah, you know, the part I struggle with is, you know, I've always been pro market response. Someone acts like an asshole, then people stop buying their products, blah, blah, blah. But it seems like with social media what you have now is that mob mentality, which goes along with that is this virtue signaling. So to give an example, somebody says something and maybe it's perceived as mean, I'm going

Starting point is 00:24:02 to jump on that person because I want everybody to know I think he's mean. And so you get this grow out. You get such a capital. Yes, and you get this huge crowd. Because I don't think with an allegation if this were 20 years ago, any of that would have happened. But now it's like, oh, we're on the board.

Starting point is 00:24:18 We're on board, everybody now. But you gotta fight back. You gotta be, you know, if the problem is a lot of people are guilty, so they get quiet, and they hide. If you're not guilty, you gotta fucking get out there and go, bullshit, no way you don't get to do this. Now I'm not going away. I said it.

Starting point is 00:24:36 That's why I made that Instagram video. I was like fuck, I'm not, and everybody was like, don't do this. I was like, get the fuck out of here. I know who I am. I'm gonna say this, and I want people to hear me say it. I'm not interested in some little statement. I was told it writes a statement like, I believe in due process and I'm a supporter of this

Starting point is 00:24:55 that get the fuck outta here. Nah, you guys do that. Not me. You're wrong, you're lying. I didn't, and I'm innocent. So how about that? I'm not gonna that's when you define yourself you define yourself based on who you are when the chips are down and what you're willing to say You you got to stand up for yourself now did that did this attitude Happen right away or yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, she'll shock. I said to my God, I said to my lawyer and my publicist, I go, hey, you guys, why do you believe me? Why do you think I'm innocent?

Starting point is 00:25:28 I'm not interested, I'm not, I don't want a hired gun. I want to know why you believe I'm innocent. And I had to hear from them, because my, my publicist is a feminist. I'm the only the second guy she's ever defended. And I showed her all my evidence. And I showed her all the people that came forward at, after, over the three day period after that.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Women, women who came forward, I've known over 25 years, who were in my life, who were women I've been intimate with, dated, lived with, loved all that stuff. The, that, it was crazy. It was crazy how, with unsolicited, I got it all in a file. I got it all in a fucking file and a drop box. And I sent it to her and I sent it to my lawyer

Starting point is 00:26:05 I go you guys got to read every one of these I want you to read every single one of these because I want you to see who you're Defending I'm not interested in any other bullshit. I don't want you. I don't want a hired gun You have to believe in your heart that I'm fucking innocent 100% the shitty part is it doesn't matter But it does it the other day it doesn't matter, you're right. I lost everything. But I will keep moving forward. I keep producing content. I keep fighting.

Starting point is 00:26:32 I keep saying, fuck you. Because this is not right. It's not acceptable. Do process, if you don't believe in do process, and you think you can destroy people's lives, over rumour, over hearsay, over saying that when somebody says you made a disturbing comment, I was never alone with that person, never, proved it,

Starting point is 00:26:53 but they don't care. So you gotta be full-throated about that and say that. And you keep, it's like my favorite quote by Michelangelo is criticized by creating. You keep creating. You keep going. Keep going. So you by Michelangelo's, criticized by creating. You keep creating. You keep going. You keep going. So you started other podcasts, you did other projects.

Starting point is 00:27:08 Yeah. Big and hungry podcast coming September 7th. Patron January 31, 32, sorry. How's the reception been so far with the, what the, what the, what the, what you're still doing? Awesome. Yeah. Because my, the, you don't, you can't listen

Starting point is 00:27:20 to somebody for seven years and not know who they are. I've always been so fucking honest. To the point where we wouldn't even accept sponsors on the podcast that we didn't believe in. Do you think, from what I've heard about comedy, I've heard statements like it takes 10 years of being in the trenches, of doing stand-up and bombing and just going through that before you become a good comic.

Starting point is 00:27:42 And I can't imagine how tough that would make somebody to be able to handle shit. Do you think your years of comedy just made you a badass in the sense that you could handle this? Let me tell you, this is for young people and anybody who's interested in mental toughness and stuff. One of the gifts of going through crisis and destruction,

Starting point is 00:28:02 one of the gifts of facing chaos is, you know, as men, I can only speak to men, we, if you're a certain kind of man, probably every man in this room, you want to build armor. You want to be ready for a cum-what-may. So we train, we work out. A lot of this is just building armor for when somebody comes to take your fucking life.

Starting point is 00:28:22 It really is. Like, all of us know that at the end of the day, we're gonna have to fight for our life at some point. Hopefully it's when you're really old and in your sleep. But for the most part, we know that this is what it's about. And so we take our vitamins, we wear our seat, but we, well, we, you know, we eat salad, not because we like it,

Starting point is 00:28:39 just because we think in our minds, we're gonna keep cancer at bay for a little while. We do all this bullshit. The problem is that when your chaos comes, it comes bearing weaponry, you have no armor for. It comes in a form you've never even seen before. It comes in a way that you don't even have to fight back on. You've got to improvise, okay?

Starting point is 00:28:56 And what's beautiful about facing true adversity and destruction is that you get very, if you're smart about it, and I say this to anybody who's facing something that's really tough, and I'm sure a lot of people listening are, because this is part of life. Listen to me, just get very good at, forget mental toughness about,

Starting point is 00:29:15 I gotta bear through this. No, no, no, don't do that. Just get very good at refocusing your eye. You can look at what's wrong. You can look at, you can speculate on what's gonna happen in the future and how it's going to suck. No, no, don't do that. Just literally take the energy. It's just energy. And just shift it about three feet over here and start looking at how you can make this work for you. It's just energy. Start creating. Get creative. Lost all your money?

Starting point is 00:29:47 Start instead of thinking about losing all your money, think about a new opportunity. What's something the world needs? Start thinking creatively. What can you do better that's not being done well now? Fortunes are made in crisis. You become a better person when you learn how to manage how to speak to yourself

Starting point is 00:30:06 and where to focus your eye. It's very important. It's not about what to think about. It's what not to think about. Learn what not to indulge in. And I promise you, I promise you, you will, you will, there's something beautiful about sort of self mastery in that sense. That's what self mastery is. Learning where to look. Where did you develop this mentality? I mean, it's definitely a winning mentality. I've heard it echoed in different ways from different, very successful people. How did you develop this?

Starting point is 00:30:41 Where did this come from? First of all, I forgot I was wearing this awesome bandana. But I think just a lot of failure. How did you develop this? Where did this come from? First of all, I forgot I was wearing this awesome bandana but I I think just a lot of failure. I've had a long time to fail. I've had a long time to do not get it right I've had a long time to live you know I've been alive more than half a century. No way. You look so much younger. I know. Thank you I'm late. I said that. What's his name? Yeah, you lie. You lie. You lie said that. Thank you. You lie. I appreciate that. I said that. What's his name? Eli said that. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:31:05 Eli, I appreciate that. The first thing he said is your skin's so tight. And I know it's pronounced. And it sounds like you're so big, you know? I know. I'm fucking taller than they thought. I just told her to come off for days. I probably got a dick on me. You know, it's probably.

Starting point is 00:31:18 Probably. We'll show you that later in the gym. But yeah, but so I think I've just had a chance to fail, you know? And that's why I think people should always listen to me. I'm always like, don't listen to me because I'm smarter. I've just failed a lot more than you have. I've got better pattern recognition than you do. I can see where you're heading toward a wall.

Starting point is 00:31:38 Why do I know that? Because I've crashed in that wall about 25 times. You know my joke about success too, is like, people are like, I did this interview and they were like, you've been so successful in Hollywood, do you have any advice? I'm like, listen motherfucker, I think at the time I was 50 or 51 and I was like, and I was like,

Starting point is 00:31:57 my own TV show, huge podcasts, headlining all over. Yeah, making lots of money. Okay, cool, great. Now listen, this is the formula. You want to be successful in Hollywood? Okay, I'm just going to tell you how I did it. Come to L.A. No, go to theater school at 24 years old and then work as a temp and then somehow start doing bad stand-up comedy. And then I got a TV show, Mad TV. I was not ready for it. I just fucking was so desperate that I was so desperate,

Starting point is 00:32:25 did work, I was so afraid to be a failure, that somehow I pulled it off in the audition room, got to the big dance and didn't have a fucking thing to say. I didn't even know I was terrible at characters. I was like, here I am! It was baptism by fire. I dude mad TV for two years. I get fired because I'm just not that good. And I wasn't, oh by the way, it didn't work that hard. How about that? Didn't like it. Too much work. And then I spent really most of my thirties and like, I don't know, probably until I was, yeah, half my forties hearing the word no, over and over and over again.

Starting point is 00:32:59 I mean, and I'd get a job here and there and then I'd, you know, I'd hold on to that. But for the most part, getting TV shows that didn't go, you know'd get a job here and there, and then I'd, I'd, you know, I'd hold on to that, but for the most part, getting TV shows that didn't go, you know, getting a, getting a movie and I got cut out of it. I mean, just no, no, no. The humiliation waking up in the middle of the night, I'm fucking 35 and a failure. By this time, Jesus, Jesus was already dead.

Starting point is 00:33:19 I was handed the grade of Concord, the world of 33. I'm 35, I'm a fucking loser. I worked in nine months. That's the kind, oh, I'm 38. I'm 38, I'm a great, I conquered the world of 33, I'm 35, I'm a fucking loser, I work in nine months. That's the kind, oh I'm 38, I'm 38, I'm jobless, or I'm on a fucking show where I'm making no money, but at least I get to go work sometimes, and I'm a, you know, don't blink, I'm five, I'm in five minutes of that big movie.

Starting point is 00:33:37 I just kept doing it. And so finally, I get, you know, finally, I think I'm 45 in my podcast, I get this, I meet this fighter, who's a great businessman, finally, I think I'm 45 and my podcast, I get this, I meet this fighter, who's a great businessman, and we just start doing, that was my third podcast, people forget, third, and it finally catches on because Brennan was, Brennan shops are really good businessman,

Starting point is 00:33:55 and we had this great chemistry, and I was just, I had so much practice, by the time I was 51, yeah! Yeah, dude, it took me 25 months to hear. Over nine success, that's not even a success, and the joke is like, if, if, if, if, Sparrow, I was 51. Yeah. Yeah, dude. It took me 25 years. That's not even a success. And the joke is like if a sparrow, if we stood out, you stood out here and every time a sparrow flew by, you threw a stone at it. You'd hit us. You'd hit four in a year. You probably hit four in a year. If you threw a sparrow, a

Starting point is 00:34:19 fucking stone at every sparrow that flew by. And then if you put them up on, you stuffed them and put them up on this wall, after 25 years, how many sparrows flew by. And then if you put them up on, you've stuffed them and put them up on this wall. After 25 years, how many sparrow's do you think you do? Yeah, maybe more. You might have 50. I prefer to feed the sparrow. Yeah, well that's because you're, I can tell that about you.

Starting point is 00:34:35 If you throw bread at the sparrow, how many would you feed? By the way, I'm very happy with your, with your quad development. He's got, he's got big quads, but he's a, he's a con. There's a lot more there. Birds land on his shoulders.

Starting point is 00:34:46 But if you walked in and you saw all those birds, this is a terrible metaphor, but you saw birds on the fucking wall, and I was like, how, how'd you do that? You'd be like, I knocked them out of the sky with a stone. And I'd be like, you must be the best stone thrower in the world. Yeah, right.

Starting point is 00:34:59 You know, I took me 25 fucking years to get that many sparrows of walls. That's literally how I feel about my success. Yeah. And that's how most people feel about their success. And success doesn't stay. It's not like now I'm a success. Get that, it gets harder and harder. Do goblet squats and pullups and run hills.

Starting point is 00:35:16 As you get older, it only gets worse. It's not like a goblet squat today. Let me bang out and they fucking suck. I like saying goblet squats. I brined, take me to likeless squad today. Let me bang, I think fucking suck. I like saying God bless you. I like saying God bless you. Take me to the moment of fighting the kid, really starting to take off and evolve. What was that like for you?

Starting point is 00:35:33 Meeting Brendan and then you guys hitting it off and then when did you really know you had something? When Conor McGregor did the podcast and I looked at Brendan and he looked at me and he said, just keep doing this. We just keep doing this. Just keep doing it.

Starting point is 00:35:49 What do you mean? Just keep doing this. What we're doing, that's all we got to do. And I remember, wow. And then I was at the TSA guy. He said, the kid. And I was like, damn, we're getting recognized. And another guy was like, Brian Kown.

Starting point is 00:36:01 I'm listening to your podcast right now. So yeah, I'd be in the airports and people would start to reckon, then you start selling out. How fast did the podcast get traction? Do you remember your downloads and things like that? It took a long time. It's a progression.

Starting point is 00:36:15 It takes time. But one of the things I noticed about really successful people like Rogan is that Joe will tell you, it's not that he works hard, he's just really consistent. If you, if you, if he starts something, he's gonna, like say, he starts a martial art. He's just never gonna stop.

Starting point is 00:36:35 He's gonna show up every single day. It doesn't matter whether he feels like it or not, he just shows up. It's not about time. It's not like working out that way too. Like you can work out, you probably know this, you could probably work out if you're my age, you can work out 20 minutes every other day.

Starting point is 00:36:53 If you do it right, if you're lifting weights right, you're gonna be in shape. Oh yeah, a bad workout done consistently is more effective than a good workout done inconsistently. There you go. There you go. So I think everything is like that. There's not a secret to it.

Starting point is 00:37:07 Now, let's talk about podcasting for a second because it's a relatively new medium. It's different than previous media because previous media was so sure. I think long form communication, I think a lot of people thought would never work. Every interview was 10 minutes, five minutes. They were sound bites.

Starting point is 00:37:25 All of a sudden now we have endless broadband. We could just talk forever. The hour, two hour podcasts became a thing. Different skill altogether. And arguably, you got people who, that's a comedian's for example, who do so well on podcasts, maybe not so well stand up, but the podcast

Starting point is 00:37:43 works so well. What it is about the skill of podcast? What makes it so different? Honesty. You have to be authentic. And I think people really appreciate when you're going through shit. I'm always cognizant of the fact that I'm older now and I'm the age of a lot of young men's dads.

Starting point is 00:38:01 And a lot of young men don't have, we don't live in a culture that makes you feel good about yourself, man, our woman. You know, we live in a culture that is trying to sell you something and the way you sell somebody on something is the fact that you're lacking this. This is what's wrong with you. But you know, what we want to know, especially young men, is how to be effective in the world, where to place my energy, how do I accomplish something, how do I become significant? I don't want to be regular. I don't want to have to grind at this dumb job. I want to do something that makes me feel like I'm using all my talents along the lines of excellence.

Starting point is 00:38:32 And sometimes what's really important is, like, that's why I say if you're a podcaster, make sure you immerse yourself in the best it's been thought and said, which is another way of saying read broadly. Listen broadly. Listen to people that you don't agree with. If you're a Milton Friedman free market guy, listen to Mankozo, listen to the opposite end of that spectrum. Listen to the left, the left wing intellectuals like Nome Chomsky. You might get something out of them. Read the fifth risk by Michael Lewis about where government is important

Starting point is 00:39:07 and how big government actually can help. I had to, I read that book and I changed my goddamn mind. So, the reason I say that is because what I think people really appreciate with podcasting is understanding the difference between things. Not the similarities. A mark of somebody who doesn't really do a lot of thinking is to say, ah, it's all the same.

Starting point is 00:39:29 It's just like that. No, I don't know, I'm not interested in that. I wanna know the difference. I wanna know what the difference between this philosophy and that philosophy is. The difference between how you train somebody and what your philosophy is and why it works versus this over here. Yeah, and speaking of that, so we've seen so far other new media start to kind of clamp down on opinions,

Starting point is 00:39:55 different types of opinions, Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and podcasting so far seems to be still very open and free. It's the savior, dude. It seems that way. Do you think it's next, though? Do you think we're not in the shopping mall? I'm not in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall. I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall. I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall,

Starting point is 00:40:13 I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall,

Starting point is 00:40:22 I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, I'm in the shopping mall, entrepreneurs come to me with new new platforms. Anicta, the great thing about the marketplace in Americans and people in general is that if you start censoring things like parlor and all that, I mean, all anybody's talking about now is, hey, you can't be canceled on my new platform. So technologies are, you know, good luck,

Starting point is 00:40:39 good luck trying to silence the internet. It's undefeated motherfucker. Yeah, you look at Reddit right now. Yeah. Right, let's go on with the stock. Woo! I mean, you know what I mean? It's got its dark side, but man, you're not gonna,

Starting point is 00:40:51 these long-form conversations where somebody who's made a lot of mistakes gets to kind of talk and you're asking me questions and we're all having these conversations. And there's nothing toxic about this conversation, I hope, but this is just men trying to figure it out, you know, who want the best for everyone. You know, I hope, but this is just men trying to figure it out, you know, who want the best for everyone. You know, I mean, this is what goes on.

Starting point is 00:41:09 So I am optimistic in that sense. I don't think that they can, I think censorship is always a threat, it's always a worry, but technologies are coming about that are already taking all of that into account. And if you have censors something, you just make the demand even more. Oh, yeah, you make it, you push against it. It seems to get stronger.

Starting point is 00:41:30 The best thing that can happen is if you're throwing off a platform sometimes, because you can turn that into, I'll just go over here and bring all my followers over here who are outraged by this. Americans hate censorship. Americans really don't like this shit. They don't. That's true. They're just, they just, this is, this idea of speech is violence and all that and sounds about.

Starting point is 00:41:49 Very fringe stuff with a bunch of, you know, real, really cloistered academics who are not good people. They're not good people. They're really not. They're damaged, traumatized, resentful activists. They're not even scholars. So Brian, we've been doing this. We just rolled past our six-year anniversary

Starting point is 00:42:07 that we've been podcasting, and for sure, six years coming in here five days a week recording podcast, I think of these three guys as like family now, right? We're so close, we're so tight. And we've talked about before you coming in here, like, man, I can't imagine being in Brian's position, like, where I, maybe something, because I shit, I'm sure someone could come out 20 years that I said something or did

Starting point is 00:42:28 something when I was younger, whatever. Get it to you, get it to you. And I would be putting this position where, man, if I was going to go down, I would definitely opt out, like to not, the sponsorship side of our business represents 50% of our income. It's a big chunk of money for us. And if they were all going to walk away, I would, I would bow out for my buddies, but man, I think on the sidelines, it would be breaking my heart to see what's going on.

Starting point is 00:42:51 Like, what's that like watching Shobby right now, navigate and all the fans like reaching out. I see so many people that are so angry that you've left. It's been so overwhelming, that's been amazing. It's been, it's been, you know, there's gotta be a part of you that it feels good, right? Because so many people are like, fuck this show without Callin',

Starting point is 00:43:08 but then there's a part of you. Now I want the best for, and look, it's not, it doesn't mean I can never go back. Okay, that's true. It doesn't mean that that won't eventually happen or that that's, you know. But, you know, again, you have to, like what is that, the first rule of the Samurai Mio

Starting point is 00:43:24 Motomatashi is 21 rules, except everything exactly as it is. You have to do that, and then you have to go, this is what's going on right now. I must pivot. I love that about life. You're not a fighter. Listen to Teddy Atlas on Rogan, where he says,

Starting point is 00:43:42 you ain't a fighter until there's a guy across the ring who looks at you and goes, I don't care that you can hit just as hard from both sides, you gotta make me a believer. You're not a doctor until the kid's on your operating table, bleeding from every orifice, and there's nothing in the textbook that tells you how to fix this kid, and you fix that kid.

Starting point is 00:43:58 You're probably not a fully realized human being until you've come up against yourself, and you're facing an enemy You don't have to fight and you find your way through Tom Brady is awesome because that motherfucker finds a way to win. He doesn't need Belicech. Who are you? Doesn't have you like god damn you're 43 Yeah, and this is this is this is this is the challenge to always be embraced It just is and it could be way worse

Starting point is 00:44:23 It could be an aggressive form of cancer. I could be a quadriplegic man. You gotta always remember that too. So, you know, it happened good. Good. Let me find my way through. Let me get better at managing my mental state. How shall I be handling it though? How tough? Yeah, you guys talk every day. That's my brother. Right. We're close Yeah, we're still close. We talk every fucking day. Yeah, so it's it's and shops a fighter Of course, I mean if all comics were like shop And by the way, you know, this is another guy who started out as a comic and was like it'd be like me trying to fight

Starting point is 00:45:01 He didn't he was like, you know, it was so new to him. Watch him now. Watch that dude now. You wanna talk about a guy who just never stopped. Didn't matter who was criticizing him. His standup is fucking killing it. It's, I can't even tell you what that may, it's so exciting to see. Did you coach him a lot?

Starting point is 00:45:18 Did he, I'm free to turn to you now. I'm the beginning, you know, I would, I would go over stuff, but to his credit, he pushed me away like that. He was like, I can't have you as my influence because people are going to see you in this. So he knew that. Good perspective. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:33 And he just stood on his own and just kept getting up, having people like me open for him. You know, that's not, that's scary. That's scary. It's not to be a dick, but I'm fucking really good. Holy shit. My ammy February 4th, 5th and 6th. Everybody fucking my ammy improv.

Starting point is 00:45:50 Then I'll be a Nashville. February 11th, 12th and 13th, Zainys. But whatever. Not only if you like to laugh super hard, but he doesn't care. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. There was a larger point to what I was trying to say, but yeah. We're just talking about how he's probably feeling. I mean, he doesn't care. He doesn't care. But there was a larger point to what I was trying to say, but I'm just talking about how he's probably feeling.

Starting point is 00:46:08 I mean, I can't imagine, because it's gonna come a street you guys had with us. Leaving these guys and then whoever the dude is that comes in that would replace me. I gotta sit back and watch that. And then I'm talking to them, like, how's this guy doing? Is he fucking cool?

Starting point is 00:46:19 I don't know if I can pay attention or listen in. It might be too much. It was hard. But like anybody else, like, Shob doesn't stop. He's like, gotta save the show, let's go. Let's move, always moving forward. That's all you can do, dude. Talk about being a family man.

Starting point is 00:46:34 Talk about how old are your kids? I got a nine year old in the 12 year old. So talk about being a father, I mean, all of us are dads. It's, you are? All of us are. And Adam's newest newest father But it's it's it's probably the most challenging if I had to think of the most challenging things ever ever done Probably being a dad trying to be a good father all the time

Starting point is 00:46:58 How was how was that during all this chaos do you go back and just hunker down with your family? Do you communicate this to the art to you are they too young to understand you learn who your real friends are and you learn who your real friends are not and what you do is you deepen your relationships. It forces you to actually see the people that have been there the whole time. And that's another gift is that you deepen your like with my son who's nine. Like I work him out sometimes like we we box and I'll teach him and he'll be doing pull-ups. It might be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, but that connection that you have with your son is my daughter's 12. That's a different story because she's TikTok. I can't compete with TikTok. And she rolls her eyes at me and she's, it's, you're not got the moves down or anything. She's becoming a woman too.

Starting point is 00:47:44 She's wearing heels and makeup I don't even I don't know what the fuck to do. It's a disaster, but And I'm I'm dad. So I'm just get away from it. You know, she's just like get the fuck away from it. Yeah, yeah Yeah, she barely she barely stand me, but um that that in itself is a challenge because you just got to keep giving love And she'll teach me about life. She's she's an activist now, you know, and apparently I really apparently I'm warming the planet apparently I'm privileged I'm like you're welcome for fucking everything Talk about how challenging that is having I know Sal has this kid who's really smart to challenge Is some of the ways he thinks how is it? Well my my sons of 15 my daughter's 11 so you know that oh yeah

Starting point is 00:48:24 Oh, yeah, you go from mean the coolest person in the world to being just embarrassing all the time Yeah, so you know, well my daughter's a trans activist apparently now and She you know she's she's the world America's a shit show and I'm just like Country you know, I sound like an old man. I'm an old conservative man Who's super woke? I guess, at 12. And I'm like, you're being indoctrinated by the socialists. And I told the overreact that she rolls her eyes at me as she should.

Starting point is 00:48:54 And she knows things probably that I don't even at 12. Maybe, maybe, or maybe she's, maybe we are headed for disaster. And then I got my son, who I'm trying to make a man. I don't know what a man is in the 21st century. I don't know how to who I'm trying to make a man. I don't know what a man is in the 21st century. I don't know how to teach my son not to be a liability. You know, you're being taught that aggression and competition and wanting the best for yourself is toxic. And I have a problem.

Starting point is 00:49:17 Well, you know, if you really if you actually look at where like real toxic behaviors come from, they typically come from not having a male role model. So it's almost like an expression of what they think there's supposed to be or too aggressive or whatever, but just being there as a dad, you're probably going to have a son that's going to be a good kid. Just being there, at least that's the statistic. That's a really good point, is like, I was this guy who works with foster kids and he's he was my Uber driver, but he had his degree in child psychology or something.

Starting point is 00:49:46 And I said to him, hey dude, you have any advice for me as a father because I got my kids at the time or like whatever. And I said, do you have any advice? And he looked at me and goes, all I know is you just to ask me for advice on how to be a good dad,

Starting point is 00:50:00 your kids are gonna be just fine. Cause you cared. Cause I care. You're there because you cared. Because I cared. Yeah, you're there, you cared. That's what he said. And I had another woman who was like this big psychologist, she was a child psychologist and I said, I have a daughter, my daughter was young,

Starting point is 00:50:13 give me some advice, I don't know how to fuck to do this. And she goes, just don't leave. I was like, what? She goes, class over. So I go, I was like, oh, okay, dude. All right, yeah. And so now my kids just know that I love the fuck out of them. It's like, I was like, oh, okay, dude. All right, yeah. And so now my kids just know that I love the fuck out of them. That's all it matters.

Starting point is 00:50:29 That's the most important thing I think is show them love and then maybe some discipline and structure. But even if you don't have that, the love by itself. You want your children to have to be carried to your casket because their legs won't work because they're so full of grief. If your kids are sobbing at your funeral, you should be congratulated by everybody around.

Starting point is 00:50:47 Your kids are fucking really devastated. Good job, dude. You're a terrible, terrible way to go. Terrible way to go. You're a great an out of your skin. If your kids are in dire pain on your death, you did your fucking job. My goal is to make my kids cry.

Starting point is 00:51:00 And my goal is to have my children not be able to eat from month after my death. That means I did my shit. Kids are sad. My goal is to have my children not be able to eat from month after my death Lose weight You know I'm killing it all the sparrows stare at the sparrows and we Fucking dead it those with the rock Daddy's god You're welcome for everything you know you you you talk a lot about fitness and You know fighting how long have you been into Welcome for everything. You talk a lot about fitness and fighting.

Starting point is 00:51:26 How long have you been into fitness? You're obviously a fit guy. I see it in front of me. I commented on it when you came in. It's fine. Very gap. Fucking shredding. Extremely used way.

Starting point is 00:51:36 I started a question thing. I only see my obliques. They're just, they're all about obliques. They're just slimes. They're just a line. My fucking hip muscles, my dance. Woo! Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:46 But how long have you been into fitness and into fighting? I just like, you know, when I was, I was the first thing I ever did when I was nine, I got into judo and I got out. Great sport, I love it, I did judo as a kid too. My teacher was an Olympic gold medalist to Japanese guy in Saudi Arabia.

Starting point is 00:52:02 And just giant Japanese man with a huge mustache. I've never seen a man, a Japanese man that big, fucking heavyweight. And I was doing judo. And I saw a small, his another black belt throwing a large man. And I was like, I wanna do that. I was obsessed with Bruce Lee and shit.

Starting point is 00:52:20 And then I went to high school in Massachusetts and I wrestled, I was a wrestler, and wrestling fundamentally changed my DNA, and then got into kickboxing, and all that shit in college, and then jujitsu, and I still roll, and I still box, and I still spar. You know, there's something about sparring that I really like, oh, I was getting dizzy.

Starting point is 00:52:41 I haven't done it in three months, or two months, because like I said to Shab, I go, I'm dizzy, and he goes, yeah, oh, I was getting dizzy. I haven't done it in three months or two months because like I said to Shab, I go, I'm dizzy. And he goes, yeah, dude, you getting paid for this? Keep it up, it's really bad for you. I love putting a mouthpiece in and ahead. And just like, again, I love that. That's something about fighting that, you know, I don't know, it just like makes me feel like I'm,

Starting point is 00:52:59 or like I was doing, like I work with this guy, it was a Sambo, I love takedowns, I like drilling takedowns. I'm fucking, I need a psychiatrist, I'm old. I was practicing, I had to slip my joke, but it's true story. I was slipping, I was like, I was, because when you slip to the right,

Starting point is 00:53:16 I get punched, I can never, like I can slip to the left, but, and I was doing this, and my mother goes, what are you doing? I was in Utah visiting her, I go, I'm fucking, I'm slipping shots. And she goes, you're in your 50s. And I was like, I know. And she goes, you have to go with the psychiatrist.

Starting point is 00:53:33 She was that serious. Yeah, I remember the thing I think I learned a mo, because I did Jiu Jitsu in Judo. And I remember the first class I took in Jiu Jitsu. This is after doing Judo for a while. I rolled with the instructor who was this skinny, 150 pound Indian dude, purple belt. And he tapped me out, I don't know, like five times,

Starting point is 00:53:52 in five minutes, and it was humbling. It was very humbling. And one thing I remember is in the class, you don't see a lot of big egos because everybody gets their ass kicked. And I feel like that's the most important thing you can learn is how to get your ass kicked and then be okay with it and not. Well, it's also, it's also, it's not just getting your ass kicked.

Starting point is 00:54:11 You also know that if there are no rules, that person could take your life. Oh, yeah. That's the real thing. That's the other thing about rolling with dudes who are really good. It's like, oh, you could take my head off. You could kill me. You could take my head off my spine. Like roll with job.

Starting point is 00:54:24 No, I'm thankful. No, I'm thankful. You could keep me taking a nap. He head off my spine. Like roll with job. That's my favorite day here. He'd be taking a nap. He was a big dude on top of it. He'll tell you it's 250, he's a trim 270. That's strong in this Brennan shop. I've seen him deadlift, I've seen him deadlift 550 on a hex bar. I've seen him, he did that 10 times, 10 times,

Starting point is 00:54:43 like a rep for reps and then he did 10 sets of that. I saw it with my own eyes. He did a Turkish get up, he put on a barbell, he put a 145 on and did a Turkish get up with that. He balanced it and then he did it with, then he did it with 165, and then he did 30 pull ups. I saw it.

Starting point is 00:55:03 So, oh, and by the way, when he was dead lifting, his brother told me he was bending the fucking bar. It's a different thing. And what I would do is he'd be taking a nap, we were shooting something, and he was taking a nap, and I get, he was like all tired, and I get fucking deep, I get a head and arm choke, and I sit my hips out like a judo thing.

Starting point is 00:55:21 I'm like, and I squeeze, and I'm like, now what the fuck do, where are you gonna go? I got a gable grip, and I'm, I mean, I'm like, and I squeeze. And I'm like, now what the fuck, dude? Where are you going to go? I got a gable grip. And I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm sprawled out. And I'm on the bed. And I'm like, yeah, how about now? What? What? And he starts to giggle. He did his giggle. And he took my face. He just, with his hand, he took my chin. And he peeled me. The way you open a curtain on a Sunday morning when you have coffee. You know how you just go and eat some sunshine. It's gonna get a little sunshine on the face. I'll sit in the coffee. He went, he, and he just went,

Starting point is 00:55:55 and I was like, oh, wait, my whole body. How are you? How are you bending me at the waist? And he went, he go, and then he then he just brought his lazy leg, his lazy fucking oak tree for a leg up and kind of snake it around my face again. And I got Gene burn, I got Gene burn. And he just fucking bent me backwards. It was a bad day for all. So you're, you're a judo slash kung fu slash jujitsu is no good here when it comes to Brennan shot. And I've seen him do that with 300 pound black belt Samoans. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:32 Seeing him do that with the biggest best fucking wrestlers, when he, the famous thing with Rogan when he said, Rogan said, how would you do against those wrestlers? And he said, I think you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. I've seen him take the best in the world and pack a lunch. So speaking of fighting, what do you think about what's going on with this movement that we've seen in the last few years of influencers fighting,

Starting point is 00:57:00 big name people? What do you think about that? I like, I mean, I wouldn't want to fight Logan Paul and Jake Paul. Those guys are like really in their sparring. They're big fuck, I've seen them. They're big boys. That's a big kid. He's a big, big athletic boy.

Starting point is 00:57:13 I mean, he's a big strong athletic kid. He wrestled, I think, not in college, but like, he's never stopped working out. He's never stopped training. And if you see him throw hands, you better pack a lunch. He knew what stopped working out. He's never stopped training. And if you see him throw hands, you better pack a lunch. He did what he's doing. I'm not sparring that guy. Fucking would never get in a ring with that guy.

Starting point is 00:57:32 I mean, because he's just too big and strong and athletic and young. And I mean, if he hits you, you're going to sleep. It's not a good situation. And watch Jake Spar. Jake has taken, or his brother, what's his name? Jake Spar. Logan.

Starting point is 00:57:43 Logan, but then there's Jake Paul. Yeah. Logan Paul, Jake Paul. Yeah, Jake, for my I've seen on Instagram, that kid is actually sparring and getting wobbled himself. Actually word formed, but he's really in there and serious about it. I respect it. So I don't know. I mean, is he gonna be a professional if I know, but... Well, the question I have is,

Starting point is 00:58:00 do you think it's gonna disrupt the fight game? I mean, you have, hopefully. Right, you have something going on like with UFC, where what Conor McGregor makes, I don't know what his biggest payday was in UFC, but then he goes outside of that and he fights someone like, the boxing's always been that way. Fighting's always had, you know, Ali fought professional wrestlers

Starting point is 00:58:17 and martial arts guys. That's right, he fought that Japanese wrestler didn't he? It's always been that way. We always want to see that, but the difference now is that these guys are actually in their bangin and getting knocked out Yeah, and they're and there and there's a lot of money on the line Well, yeah Now they have what I find interesting is now you have some money like a Logan or Jake Paul who nobody would have known who they were if they

Starting point is 00:58:36 Would they have this social media following that they have and that's it They have enough millions of people following them that they can actually sell the shit out of them They're making twenty20 million for this. I mean, God bless. And Jake Paul, I think, is serious about becoming a fighter. I respect that. I mean, he's, look at the fucking dude is actually making, well, okay, let's see.

Starting point is 00:58:56 So he's making millions of dollars and he's challenging himself. And being in one of the few people, one of the few YouTubers or entertainers or whatever he is, human beings, who's willing to actually get in the ring across from a real athlete. It's that guy Nate, he thought it was a real athlete, like a sick athlete.

Starting point is 00:59:14 And he's willing to get in there and bang, and now he's challenging Ben Asquan. And those guys. How do you think that's gonna go? Well, it's just boxing, right? They're not gonna do that. It's not grappling, because if it was Emma May Asqu her and I think would dump her. Oh, if he touches you, you're good. It's all over. Ben, ask her, but I don't know that Ben, ask her, I never

Starting point is 00:59:34 want to fight striking. I think it's all been wrestling and pounding. So, so I think it's a smart idea. Ben, Ben's a great athlete and a limpian and all that, but this is boxing, ladies and gentlemen, different sports. I don't think people really realize the difference between good and world class. I've grappled with good black belts and they're really good. And then I've gone against guys who are world class and it almost feels like they could, well, it means it's true, like they could beat me while eating a sandwich and watching a TV show.

Starting point is 01:00:06 Like literally with their eyes closed, they could kick my ass. It's completely different. It's a whole different universe. It's their job. And that's the other thing about that's awesome. You're good in practice. Good. This guy's made the walk.

Starting point is 01:00:20 This guy's made the actual walk. That's and that when that's why I respect guys like Dustin Porrier, anybody who steps in the UFC in the octagon, anybody who steps in the professional ring, because you, to get there, you had to learn how to talk to yourself, you had to learn to deal with injury, you had to deal with how to lose weight properly, you had to deal with a lifetime of disappointment,

Starting point is 01:00:39 of the fear of, it's very different, and then they perform on that big stage. You know, you see, you're a good guy to ask this. You're very smart. And, you know, I think you've been presenting this case pretty well. And what I always find fascinating is the more civilized and the easier we start to make life. I mean, let's be honest, in modern Western societies, life is physically just easy.

Starting point is 01:01:01 We make everything very, very easy. And then we see the explosion of like Spartan races and all these crazy stuff. Almost like we have to feel like we're almost gonna die. It's a part of being a human. Otherwise, we don't feel like we're alive. Is that, I mean, do you agree with that? Well, I think Freud said,

Starting point is 01:01:20 if you take away competition, if you take away war of some kind, man will kill himself. We'll turn that question back on ourselves. Aggression is competition imposing your will. Whatever it might be is that will to power is so fundamental to human beings, men and women by the way. It just is. So you, you know, when you, when you no longer have a way to express your masculinity, when you no longer have anywhere to place your

Starting point is 01:01:51 aggression, which is so fundamental to human, you know, the human experience, it will manifest itself in, it will have to be simulated some way. Sports a great place for it. You don't want it being done on a battlefield with actual weaponry. You want it expressed as entrepreneurs. You want it expressed in the marketplaces competition. You want it expressed in a ring with a ref

Starting point is 01:02:20 on a field with a ref. But this is what's beautiful about aggression. You know, the movie, The Matrix, there was that one scene where they have, I think it was Morpheus and they caught him, and they're trying to get into his brain to crack the codes for, you know, wherever it's eye on or whatever. And Agent Smith says, you know,

Starting point is 01:02:40 we made a perfect matrix at first. It was a utopia for humans, and we lost entire crops because the human mind could not perceive a world without challenge and without death and distress. I thought it was such a brilliant, but I thought, do you believe that we're building towards that right now

Starting point is 01:02:56 and that's part of why we're getting such a pushback with our society? Think about what we're doing. We're making things easier and easier and before long. Some people believe that anything that can be free will be free in the future. I have you ever heard the theory that, like these theoretical mathematicians

Starting point is 01:03:12 and physicists are talking about in terms of, so we know evolution is been the order of the day. And that's if you believe in science, you believe in evolution. And there's an overwhelming amount of evidence for that. Then you have Newtonian physics, the kind of physics that we live in, which this is matter,

Starting point is 01:03:29 but then there's quantum mechanics, quantum physics, which is how electrons work. But they're two different realities, right? Because one kind of contradicts the other sometimes, and Einstein and all these physicists have been working on what's called a theory of everything, which is this, what is the bridge? What is the theory of everything?

Starting point is 01:03:45 Unifying theory. Yeah. And it's, what I think one of the ideas is one that this might be, well, we may already be self-replicating machines so that this is no, this is, we, how many layers deep you think we are in this real and this simulation That's what I mean is that we might be already on a loop We're controlling our own evolution. We're controlling our own biology. We're kind of synthetic biology and then robots Gene editing so that pretty soon we're gonna be able to create creatures We're actually gonna be able to create the cross between a lion and a man

Starting point is 01:04:22 I mean this is not if you extrapolate 20, 30 years, this is not far fetch at all. This is not far fetched at all. What, what, anything, I think China, aren't they doing chimeras or whatever? Oh, that's tough. No, no, exactly. And now think about also virtual reality. Right now, it's very crude and rudimentary, okay?

Starting point is 01:04:38 But if just extrapolate 50 years from now, what is virtual reality gonna be like? Like this, you're gonna have a real reality. This might already What is virtual reality going to be like? Like this. You're going to have a real reality. This might already be a virtual reality. This may, our brains, the real, Sal, the real, you know, it might be, it might be like the matrix. This might, or stat, statistically, there are mathematicians and physicists. They think it's more of a probability, right? Well, and this, this might be machinery. This might be, and we're making better versions of ourselves already.

Starting point is 01:05:07 So the perfect time to talk about conspiracy theories. Yeah. Yeah, no, okay, I want to get into this. So you have a whole podcast around this now, and I'm sure you've come across some amazing theories for things that you've come across. What's your favorite one so far? I mean, they're all so far fetched

Starting point is 01:05:27 that none of them are my favorite. What I think is interesting is that. Oh, most ridiculous. Well, people about entertaining. Flat Earth. Okay. I mean, that's the most incredible thing. I talked to this flat earther and he was telling me

Starting point is 01:05:43 that there was an ice wall around the world, an ice wall. Just like Game of Thrones. And I said, well, when you chart your flight pattern, my dad said, was a pilot, and you know, and when you chart your flight pattern, you take into account the curvature of the earth and how you, I mean, this is all done.

Starting point is 01:06:01 And he said, yeah, I know a lot of pilots just starting to speak out about this. I go, so NASA is having people just fly in weird, secure, just routes just to keep this globe myth going. He goes, yeah, I go. They're all in on it. Okay, and has anybody been, what's beyond the ice wall?

Starting point is 01:06:19 He goes, nobody knows. And I was like, ah, so we don't fly past that. And I go, where are the people who want us to, who's controlling all this? He goes, hey, who's don't fly past that. And I go, where are the people who want us to, who's controlling all this? He goes, hey, who's running Costco? Do you know? What's the other great response? Hey, was that the defense?

Starting point is 01:06:32 And I go, I go, I go, do you have a degree in anything concerning geology or astrophysics or anything? Do I have some lying bullshit degree? No, I'm like, oh, it's all a lie. Okay, I guess everything that's in my cell phone is also a lie. If you start asking them questions,

Starting point is 01:06:48 they're like, you believe in scientism and they'll hit you with this, but the problem with the real conspiracy theorists is that when I see them, I'm like, you're not, you're not, you literally have had zero schooling in this field. And then they'll say things like, I'm just asking questions, man. I just doubt.

Starting point is 01:07:04 I just do research. That's all I do. I just watch video really so all those like it's like the chemtrails thing I was like so so this is a anytime you see chem anytime you see anything coming out of a plane it's a chem trail I go who's running this it's a worldwide thing yeah yeah it's worldwide huh and would any environmentalist be a little up in arms about this, or are they all in the dark, too, or are they all in the take? And any investigative journalist says, is it only you guys, you a small group of people, it's just seem to have the truth.

Starting point is 01:07:32 The enlightened ones. It's fucking fascinating. You know what just seems like, like last year, especially, like it was at its ultimate peak. Like I've never seen so many conspiracy theorists think all of a sudden everything's unveiling and this is all happening and this is like, well you have to believe that first of all

Starting point is 01:07:48 human beings can keep secrets. And they don't. And then you have to believe that people are that organized. You know, this venture capitalist was tried to get, I think it was my buddy who's made more money than God. And he tried to get like five, this venture capitalist wanted to raise crazy money and she wanted to get five of these billionaires at lunch to present her thing. She couldn't get any of them to these are very powerful people. She couldn't get any of them to meet with each other because they all hated each other

Starting point is 01:08:21 because they were all suing each other one bang the other one's wife and they were like they're all running the same. They're like fuck you a fuck that guy. I'll never do business You couldn't get them to sit down because of course not But they all work together to keep the conspiracy. Yeah, right. We're tribal That's the problem with the idea behind all of it It's like yeah, and if you're a good conspiracy theorist or if you're good at anything, you want to always have and I think I think Eric Weinstein said this Wokistan and Magistan are both

Starting point is 01:08:53 They both have elements of truth and then it's filled in with a bunch of craziness So you always want some true way gets used to use true use some of the truth To get your point across. And then you just, you cherry pick the data. So I don't explain Epstein Island. Yeah. I don't know. I think, to me, I think Epstein was probably working

Starting point is 01:09:18 for a foreign entity. And I think that this far, and that they let maybe, let's say that is Israel. And Israel said, I know how to get, I know how to get influence over really powerful men. Men like banging women and powerful men who happen to be married, let's put them on an island.

Starting point is 01:09:37 You get these gorges of women out there and you videotape it. Or you just get, you know, you get it on camera somewhere. Or you just have dirt on them. That's a really good way to get influence. That makes sense to me. Like, you know, it seems like it's like this is a great way to get people, you know, blackmail. Yeah, and the way he died, I mean, could they have made it any more obvious? All the camera shut off, nobody knows what happened. He killed himself. Oh, really? This is weird. Yeah, I didn't follow that, but you know, maybe that's what happened.

Starting point is 01:10:07 I, I, I, okay, it was the Israeli massage or, but then again, also like, why, what's his name? Epstein didn't have anything to live for, did he though? What was gonna happen to him? He was never getting out of jail. That's true. He was never getting out of jail.

Starting point is 01:10:20 He probably was never going to be able to be in general population. So killing himself would have made sense. It's not surprising to me that he killed himself. It's also not surprising that he had tried it already. Did they fail the first time? Come on. I mean, that's my thing about it.

Starting point is 01:10:38 He tried it the first time. And then he was on suicide watch. So did the massage fail the first time? I don't think they fail. Well, what's that saying? If you see hoof prints in the sand think horse, not zebra. So it's usually the obvious answer, not the crazy one.

Starting point is 01:10:53 Exactly. You talked about a lot about competition and how it's natural. And I assume there's a competition in the comedy world, in the stand up comedy world. How does that surface, I was just gonna ask you, what does that look like, or is it just a lot of camaraderie? Yeah, I don't, the comedy, so it's so its own thing.

Starting point is 01:11:11 I've never thought of it as competitive. I don't know how you compete with comedy. All you can do is write funny stuff and get up and be funny, and if it's funny people laugh, but I've never, ever felt that any of the people I know, from Bill Byrd, Joe Rogan, to Chris Talea, to Sam Tripoli, to, you know, I mean, any of Anthony Jezzelmecker, and they're all doing their thing. They're all up there. You know, you do your set, you crush a room, or you don't, and then you go back to the drawing board. You're too busy writing and trying to come up with new things and writing your one hour and perfecting it.

Starting point is 01:11:49 I don't know how you compete with that. I was like, I beat you. But I mean, I've had friendly competitions. I used to do this with Christel Lea all the time. Like I get all the same. I love the way you guys talk to each other. That was the great. We still do. I mean, I would get off the stage and I'd be like, like one time I did, we had this competition to see who would make people laugh the most at the laugh factory. And he went up and then I went up and I did, you know, I'm really funny.

Starting point is 01:12:15 But so it's Chris, right? But we both kind of did, we killed, it's a packed room and we did our thing, right? And so at the end of my set, I looked at Chris and I go, hey Chris, and he was this and I go, it's how you do it. And the whole fucking place went crazy. In that sense, it's a fun, but it's not like a race. Who's your favorite comic right now? Who do you think are some of the greats that work? I love Bill Burr.

Starting point is 01:12:39 So he's got to be my favorite one. It's a bastion, makes me laugh so hard. Yes. You gotta give Dave Chappelle his due for telling the truth. Dave Ahtel is a beast. Yes, Dave B. Dave Ahtel is the funniest motherfucker. I mean, it's just this pure comedy.

Starting point is 01:12:56 I think Luis C.K. You know, I was listening to him recently. I never used to listen to him much, but God, he's fucking a killer. I've always loved Kevin Hart. He's gotten so rich now, but you know, Kevin's, I don't know. I mean, I like the people I know. I think they're all, I think they're all.

Starting point is 01:13:13 How are comedians in general with business? Because you mentioned Kevin Hart, like one of the things that I think about his brilliance isn't just his standup, but his also his brilliance as a businessman, like I think he's kind of paved the way for a lot of comedians. Is that true or what do you think? I think that, yes, you know, I think that podcasting and it's for the first time really, you can make a lot of money as a comic.

Starting point is 01:13:37 That needs to be not the case. It's very rare that you could actually sell 3,500 tickets or something. Now you can, now you can sell 6,000 tickets with podcasts and it's really allowed comics to reach a much broader audience. So then you've got your Netflix stuff and so I think this is a new thing. So business has business being a businessman selling merch. It's kind of a rock star model of things. But I think that's fairly recent. Does that feel weird?

Starting point is 01:14:08 Is that for someone like you who's been in the business for so long to transition that way? Well, I remember when the comedy store wasn't the comedy store when there were 12 people in the room, and then Rogan's podcast, and all of us doing podcasts talking about the comedy store. So people from all over the world were coming to the comedy store. So I would have somebody from Pakistan calling me Mr. Calon and being all just so excited. It was far or India.

Starting point is 01:14:31 I'd be on a plane and somebody from Mumbai was like, are you on how I met your mother? And you just stand up and, where a guy from Sweden said, you're on my screen saver. You're like, what? What? All because of podcasts, all because of social media.

Starting point is 01:14:44 So that's very new for us. Yeah, one thing that surprised me when I was younger, meeting comics was how intelligent they all seem to be. You don't necessarily see that when they're on stage and doing their act, obviously they're funny, but you talk to them afterwards and they're highly intelligent. Is there a correlation between being very smart

Starting point is 01:15:06 and also being a comic? I would assume there is because you have to observe things and be able to present things in ways that are funny, that people are used to. I don't know if you're smarter, but I think what happens is if you're a comic typically, you're doing that because nothing else worked out or that's the only thing that really,

Starting point is 01:15:24 you have to be to some extent a misfit. or that's the only thing that really, you have to be to some extent a misfit. I don't know any comic that's not a bit of a misfit, that's not very dysfunctional in one way or another. And I mean all comics. And I think what that really is, is having this ability to be on the outside looking in. It's like, I don't know too many fighters

Starting point is 01:15:47 who didn't come from some kind of a broken home. And I don't know too many comics that didn't come from some strains unorthodox beginning. You know, it's like, Doug David, one of my favorite comics, it was talking about how his dad was a, you know, his dad's smoking crack in the fucking, in the bathroom and his mother at one point

Starting point is 01:16:06 was gay living with a woman underneath, like in the basement of the house and the woman had a pet monkey and, you know, his father's like, I was gonna have your mother killed but I can never do that to you and your brother. That's what he said, that's how he, that's as close as he got to killing him. So he became a comic.

Starting point is 01:16:19 His dad be smoking crack in the bathroom and he was like, Dad, we're, Dad, I need to use a bathroom because I'm in the garage. And he's like, I can hear your crack in the bathroom. He's like, Dad, we're, we're, Dad, I need to use the bathroom. He goes, I'm in the garage. And he's like, I can hear you a voice. He goes, not your father. He's like, well, tell my dad whoever it is. You get out of this garage, last bathroom. This is real true story.

Starting point is 01:16:34 He's about that. So, so much of what makes you a good comic and makes you a comic in the first place, probably is the fact that you came up differently, that you were always on the outside looking in. There's something really, there's something about that that causes you to be more of an observer and you tend to get perspective on what's weird, what's wrong, what doesn't make sense. You're not orthodox. You don't go into comedy if you're...

Starting point is 01:17:01 What was that for you? What was that for you? Growing up over the world Oh, I lived in seven different countries until I was 14 So I was born the Philippines and then I moved to Calcutta then then Bombay now Mumbai and then we moved to Lebanon Then Pakistan then Lebanon again the war broke out. We got evacuated to Greece and then and then Saudi Arabia So by the time I was 14 I had lived in all those countries and traveled even more than that to Russia at the time when it was communist, to China when it was very communist. Everybody's wearing the same outfit and riding bicycles. I mean, I saw all these things.

Starting point is 01:17:34 I saw real poverty in Africa, real poverty in Pakistan and India. I was too young to remember India, but real poverty. I mean, real in Yemen, I went to Yemen and I'd never seen, I saw leprosy. I saw people with leprosy, like a dance stage of leprosy, which we don't deal with anymore. So it gave me such an appreciation

Starting point is 01:17:52 for this thing called the United States. It made me such a patriot. By the time I was 14, I was like, America, I never lived here. And I was going to boarding school. But what made me a comic was I was every year and a half, two years, I was thrown into a new group of kids. And the way you make friends is you kind of become, luckily I was coordinated enough to be okay at sports.

Starting point is 01:18:14 And but mainly I was like, hey, I know how to get people all like me, I'll make you laugh. I'll make a spectacle of myself. I'll be a fucking idiot and you guys will laugh. And that's literally, I think, why stand up is so natural for me. Do you think it was like a lot of self-depreciating humor? Is that how you started? Yeah, always. I never liked myself.

Starting point is 01:18:34 I mean, this idea, you have to like yourself as such horseshit. Low self-esteem is a good thing. It is. I'd never be funny if I liked myself. I was built like fucking muscles over here. Seriously, like I've always, I've got all my humor is about the fact that I didn't grow to be a big, strong muscular handsome fucker. You know, you can't like yourself.

Starting point is 01:18:55 It's like low self esteem is where a lot of, you should have a sense of your own in adequacy, a profound sense of your own inadequacy. Because everything is a fucking compensation. And I'm serious. I mean, that is not necessarily a bad thing. Stop. You don't have to, I hate when I believe in yourself. That fuck it.

Starting point is 01:19:16 Believe in myself. All right. Tell you what, bro. I'm going to put you in a ring with John Jones. He's going to kick you in the head. Do you believe in yourself right now? The way you believe in yourself is through training practice and you only believe in yourself under very strict narrow confines. Put me up in front of a group of people with a mic. I'll believe myself

Starting point is 01:19:35 because I've been doing it forever. Put me in a ring against a guy who can really bang. I'm gonna run away or pretend to faint. I don't believe in myself. I don't believe in myself in a lot of things. That's not. I always, when I see comics, I always think of how courageous they are because when they ask people what your number one fears are, it's always public speaking is kind of one of the top ones. And it's really the fear of people rejecting you.

Starting point is 01:20:00 And as a comic, especially in the beginning, you go up there and you probably suck a lot. What does it feel like to bomb? It's a bomb in front of a group of people. Is that just terrifying? And is it ever get easier? I have it on tape somewhere. The first time I ever did stand up.

Starting point is 01:20:14 And if you're ever been in a real fight, whether you're the guy, you're gonna get your ass kicked. Like when you're in a real fight, like all this to all your Gigietsu and all that shit, you're like, you anchor your back foot and you're like, I'm gonna go with this dude and he's bigger and stronger. And I don't know if he's gonna bite my face, I'm fucking terrified.

Starting point is 01:20:31 Like I've been training all this time and I can't feel my legs right now. Here it goes, right? And that's an awful feeling, right? You're just like, everything's like, nobody wants to talk about that, but I don't give a fuck who you are. You're always terrified.

Starting point is 01:20:43 And I don't care if you're an MMA guy. If you're in a real situation like that, it's always like, you're so afraid, it's natural. I was more afraid than that the first time I got on stage. Like I couldn't move my face, dude. Like, and my voice was really high and I was trying to do size there.

Starting point is 01:20:58 And I blanked, I blanked and the middle of my set. I sure did. And then I fucking came back and did it. The first two times were baptismal fire. What made you go back? Because I knew I had it. Because I was funny even the first time. Not to be a dick, but I was.

Starting point is 01:21:17 I was, I was, I was the ass. I think you have to get a little bit of that. Don't you feel like it? Don't you feel like to keep you going, you have to get a little taste of like, okay, I think I could figure this't you feel like to keep you going, you have to get a little taste of like, okay, I think I could figure this out. I was always making my friends laugh. I was always making my friends laugh.

Starting point is 01:21:29 They were all telling you, you were so fucking funny, man. But it's like being the tough kid in the neighborhood. Then you go to a American top team and go fucking roller-rull those scots and see what happens to your face. So there's something called professionally funny, but I knew I could do it.

Starting point is 01:21:43 I knew that I was never gonna be a great actor and I was never, I was, you know, there's something called professionally funny, but I knew I could do it. I knew that I was never gonna be a great actor and I was never, I was, you know, it's okay, an acting. Tartus a little bit about Hollywood. Is it, I mean, we, Justin, Elizabeth. Do they all worship Satan? Yeah, I mean, let's get into it. Well, they do, they all worship Satan. I knew it.

Starting point is 01:21:59 Did they drink the blood of children? You must drink the blood of traumatized children because there's a adrenaline running through there. Yeah, that stuff is, no. Hollywood is a business like anything else. And acting is always so precarious. And there are so many people that are great for five years. Who was it, Jay Leno, who said,

Starting point is 01:22:18 it's a matter of time before you last guy in the chair. It's a matter of time. You're a movie star now, but then you get three movies that don't go so well, and people forget about you and you're put in the chair. No matter of time, you're a movie star now, but then you get three movies that don't go so well and people forget about you and you're put in movie jail. And now, I mean, now Holly was so different. There are no movie stars anymore. There aren't.

Starting point is 01:22:34 There are YouTube stars. And it's just, no kids don't even care. Yeah, dude, the age of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, I think is probably over because there's just too much out there and you don't need stars anymore. You just need good actors. And the movie is the star. I would agree with that.

Starting point is 01:22:54 I mean, my kids don't even... I could ask them to name a Hollywood star in a clinic but they could name 10 YouTube... PewDiePie influencers. Yeah, and that is those are the new stars. But how long do they last? That's a very fickle thing, but the beautiful thing about YouTube

Starting point is 01:23:10 is you don't need this machine. When I was coming up, you needed a machine. You needed a publicist, a lawyer, a manager. You needed this whole infrastructure, and you saw a third of your money for real. You saw a third of your money. You. You saw a third of your money. You didn't see if you made a million dollars, you know, you, you save your money.

Starting point is 01:23:32 There's a reason most actors are broke because it just goes. It's not, you know, especially if you're trying to live in Hollywood, too. But for the first time, for the first time, you have control. For the first time, your phone can make you a millionaire. It's kind of crazy. It's really weird. Well, Brian, there's no doubt in my mind you're going to come back with a vengeance.

Starting point is 01:23:51 I think you just, you have the, I mean, your attitude, obviously, you're talented. I think you're phenomenal. What is it looking like for you in the future? You're starting to podcast, you're doing more stand-up. Anything else, people should luck out. I'm going to focus on this new podcast, Big and Hungry, that I'm doing with Steve Burns, a great comic, and I'm gonna focus on that.

Starting point is 01:24:09 I'm gonna continue to do this Patreon thing with Conspiracy Social Club until they kick me off, and that's been so much fun just to argue with these people. And I'm just gonna, and I'm ready to like release my next special. Yeah, I'm shooting it in Miami, in fact. February 4th, 5th and 6th, improv, and then I'm gonna shoot that, and then I'm back to the drawing board. I'm never it in Miami, in fact. February 4th, 5th and 6th, improv, and then I'm gonna shoot that,

Starting point is 01:24:25 and then I'm back to the drawing board. I'm never gonna stop writing. I'm never gonna stop trying to surprise myself, because I'm in the business of original self-expression. And I think that's needed more than ever now. And as I get older, I just try to stay as fair as I can. I try to keep good ideas out there, and doing podcasts like this is always a privilege.

Starting point is 01:24:45 I appreciate you guys having me out here, of course. Brandy, before we hang out though, I wanted a question about this because this has been something that's, it's been on my mind, my, I've changed the way, I look at things. Much of my motivation early on was to reach this point of success, financial success.

Starting point is 01:25:01 When I got there, it totally shocked me that I was unhappy and it wasn't what I thought it would be. Were you ever driven that way? Were you driven for money? Were you driven for success? And then did you reach it? And did that change for you? It's a funny question. You know, when I was about a year ago, two years ago, I drew a line through everything I'd ever tried to accomplish. I came to LA and I had a list. I was specific about my goals. And I drew a line through every one of them. I did everything.

Starting point is 01:25:28 I lived my goals and I had accomplished everything. And what I thought was interesting is that I think in life you need a certain amount of certainty. This is a good thing about money. Is that you need to know that you have a roof over your head. You need to know that you have food. That stuff's important. That you can give too. That's really important. You can pay for a meal and that you have a roof over your head. You need to know that you have food. That stuff's important. You can give too. That's really important. You can pay for a meal and that you

Starting point is 01:25:47 have a car and those things are really important. But once that happens, now what are you going to do? I think you need adventure. There are two things that are really two commodities that are always I think scarce adventure and intimacy intimacy is something you get when you you guys have it among yourselves You have it with the women in your life, hopefully You know, but it's rare isn't it? intimacy somehow is that that feeling of deep understanding deep connection with somebody, and soldiers have it when they go to battle,

Starting point is 01:26:27 athletes have it when they're on the same team, you guys have it when you're trying to build something, whatever it is, usually a mission and trying to accomplish that mission creates an intimacy. You face plateaus and adversity and things like that, but boy is it rare, and a lot of times you find out, you get real intimacy in crisis, you know.

Starting point is 01:26:47 And the other is adventure. And the way I define adventure is not knowing what's coming next. And you need some uncertainty in your life, you'll get bored. You need some danger. And always bring it into your life. And the way to do that is to do things

Starting point is 01:27:02 that you're not so good at. It's humbling, but it's awesome, and it keeps you uncomfortable. And it keeps the ribs on you. And I think that's very, very important. You can get very stagnated and stale in the same gym with the same patterns. And I think it's really important to change your patterns up and learn something that you haven't done before. And practice a skill that scares you. All of us want to do something that

Starting point is 01:27:26 we're not doing. What is it? You know, and and do it. I think that's that's probably the best way to mine who you really are. At the end of the day, it's about learning about who you are, learning more about yourself. And remember this too, that your old that life is one continuous mistake. yourself and remember this too that your all that life is one continuous mistake and it's just about adjusting and Adjusting and as a great there's a great saying that Mark Hanson said and this all are not giving a fuck He said instead asking what you want ask yourself what you're willing to struggle for Excellent. Excellent. Great way to end it Brian. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you Time brother. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys for having us.

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1482: Canceled With Bryan Callen

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