Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1546: How to Increase Rotational Power, Ways to Build Muscle Strength & Endurance at the Same Time, How Tight Shoulder Can Limit Your Squat & More

Episode Date: May 5, 2021

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about building muscle strength and muscle endurance at the same time, exercises to increase rotational power, whether lack of scapular retraction can prevent you from squatting deep, and how to get clients to express how the workout is affecting them. Mind Pump addresses the controversy between Layne Norton and Erica “Fit Love” Lugo over the ideology of The Biggest Loser. (3:58) How building muscle is protective regardless of how much you weigh. (25:58) Sal recaps his recent trip to LA for the release of his book. (32:46) The importance of relationship building and adding value in pursuit of scaling a business. (39:16) Sal’s experience traveling post-COVID. (44:27) How your kids can associate their parents with certain things. (46:55) #Quah question #1 – Can you build muscle strength and muscle endurance at the same time or in the same programming? (51:28) #Quah question #2 – What exercises do you recommend to increase rotational power? (56:57) #Quah question #3 – Can lack of scapular retraction prevent you from squatting deep? (1:05:01) #Quah question #4 – How can I get clients to express how the workout is affecting them?  (1:10:02) Related Links/Products Mentioned May Specials: MAPS Aesthetic & the Extreme Fitness Bundle 50% off!  **Promo code “MAYSPECIAL” at checkout** @biolayne’s post - That time I interviewed to be on ‘The Biggest Loser’ Muscle Mass Knocks Out Insulin Resistance The Resistance Training Revolution – Book by Sal Di Stefano Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** Jen Cohen - TEDxBuckhead Mind Pump #930: Jennifer Cohen Knows How To Get What She Wants Visit Brain.fm for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners. Visit Felix Gray for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Add Windmills to Your Workout to Increase Your Deadlift Strength – Mind Pump TV Rubberbanditz Resistance Band Set Build An Amazing Midsection with the Side Wood Chop – Mind Pump TV 2 Anti-Rotation Exercises to Increase STRENGTH GAINS | MIND PUMP TV How to Fix Rounded Shoulders (GONE IN 4 STEPS!) | MIND PUMP TV Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Layne Norton, PhD (@biolayne) on Instagram Erica Lugo (@ericafitlove)  Instagram Steve Cook (@stevecook)  Instagram Jillian Michaels (@jillianmichaels)  Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere)  Instagram Jennifer Cohen (@therealjencohen)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Alright, in today's episode, we answered fitness and health questions that were asked by our audience. But the way we opened the episodes with intro-apportion, where we talk about current events, drama on the internet, bring up science,

tracking studies, we talk about sponsors, the intro was 51 minutes long after that, we got into the fitness questions. Here's what went down in today's episode. We opened up by talking about the drama between Lane, Northern, and Erica, fit love on Instagram. This is a thing that has to do with the biggest loser,

great conversation. Then I brought up a study on Instagram. This is a thing that has to do with the biggest loser. Great conversation. Then I brought up a study on muscle. Did you know that building muscle is protective? Regardless of how weight, how much you weigh. So you can be overweight, it doesn't matter. Build muscle improves your health. Then I talked about my trip down to L.A. hanging out with Max Lugavir, a good friend of mine. And he's also sponsored by a company we work with called Paleo Valley. In fact, he gave me a bunch of meat sticks. I love those things.

Go check out Paleo Valley's products. I had a joke there, but my favorite products from there are the meat sticks and their neuro effect, which is good for brain performance, for cognitive performance. Go check them out, go to paleovali.com. forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 15.

That's mind pump 15. Check out for 15% off. Then I talked about Jen Cohen. That's the other person that I met with. And that led us to talk about the importance of relationships and adding value because that's what she does very, very well. I talked about in being in the airport during the COVID era and also using my blue light blocking glasses because I got home late last night and help me get to sleep. I was hyped. The lights were bright in the airport, but Felix Gray glasses got my brain ready for sleep. So when I got home,

I was stylish way. And yes, exactly. And I went right to bed. By the way, go check out our link at Felix Gray. Go to FelixGreatGlasses.com. That's F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y. Glasses.com forward slash mine pump. And they'll give you free shipping and a 30-day money back guarantee. And then we talk about kids and mom versus dad. So that was a great conversation. Then we win.

Then we got into the questions. Here's the first one. This person says, hey, look, can you build muscle strength and muscle endurance at the same time? The next question, what exercises do you recommend to increase rotational power? The third question, can lack of scapular retractions? That's your ability to really hold your shoulder blades back, prevent you from squatting deep. And then the fourth question, this person is a trainer and they're saying, look, when I'm talking to my clients, it's hard to get them to express how workouts are truly affecting them.

Do you have any tips? Also, all month long, we're running a massive promotion. We have Maps aesthetic. This is our bodybuilding inspired workout program. That is 50% off. Then we have the extreme fitness bundle, which includes Maps hit, Maps performance, Maps prime, and the intuitive nutrition guide. that's also 50% off. You can find both of those, learn more,

or sign up at mapsfitinistproducts.com. Just use the code MaySpecial with no space for the discount. T-shirt time! And it's T-shirt time! Oh! I can't dog you, no, it's my favorite time. Oh, I can't dog you. No, it's my favorite time.

Oh my god. He just killed everybody's ears. He just went through puberty right there. We had three winners this week, two from Apple Podcast, one from Facebook, the Apple Podcast winners are Luis 56745 and Darius Wilman. And for Facebook, we have Richie I.E. All three of you are winners.

Send the name I just read to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Go to Instagram, pull up Lane Norton's last post. I believe it's his last post. He came after a biggest loser, and I want to dress some stuff right now So you oh it's a lane by all lane, right? Yeah, yeah go to by all lanes Instagram go to his last post

It's he is he a gang angry about something again. Did you not read it? Impossible. Okay, okay. Yeah, no, I saw all that every day. He wakes up and he's like well Here's I'm angry here's a great yeah like, I want Doug to read it for us. So I want you to read us the posts for the listeners that aren't on YouTube. So they, because I know Andrew will show it, but for you, can you read it for our listeners so you can read what he said?

Yeah, he said, don't think I've ever told you all this before, but I had a call from a producer of the biggest loser about being on the show. During the call, they wanted me to agree that someone could lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks in a healthy way. I refused to agree with it, never got a call back. There's more to it. If you slide over, if you slide over, then that's fine.

Okay. Does there go? There you go, Graham. Yeah. He does it from a computer. Yeah. Real arcade. Yes.

Now, I can't be sure that was the reason they didn't want me, but they pushed hard for me to say it, and I simply wouldn't. To lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks would require in playing completely unsustainable methods and would send the wrong message, and that is exactly what I told them. I'm 100% on board so far.

Okay, so keep going. Yeah, I want you to read the whole thing for the audience. The person who called me also did not seem to understand the difference between someone with a PhD in nutritional sciences and a physical trainer, personal trainer. Anyway, I didn't get on. Probably could have made a lot of money

and more fame if I did, not worth compromising what I believe. I like the mild flex there. I love that, I love that too. Yeah, so integrity is greater than fame or money. I will find a way to reach millions of people, but not at the expense of doing what's right. And then he goes in on his, I'm sorry I'm making you read all this,

but I feel like we need to have the context because I won't have this conversation with the guys. And then he goes on in his caption, I think he goes on a dig deeper in on the people that decided to go on this show. Okay, many of you guys know that I've been very critical previously about the show and the methodologies they used to get people to lose weight.

They encourage unhealthy and sustainable methods, very, very low calories and excessive amounts of exercise, in order for people to lose weight as quickly as possible because it makes good TV apparently. However, research has shown that almost every single one of these participants regains nearly all the weight. Moreover, an NIH study demonstrated that they incurred long-term suppression of their metabolic rate five years after the show ended.

As I have said, if the methods are unsustainable, the results are unsustainable. In 2019, one of the casting people from the show reached out to me. We had a phone call and they basically said that they were trying to do the show in a healthier manner, which I thought was great. They were interested in having me on the show, but they really pushed hard for me to say that someone could lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks and have it be healthy. I repeatedly stated that while it might not harm

the person in the short term, it didn't teach them healthy habits. And it was likely going to lead to massive weight regain after the show. The person also did not seem to understand the difference between a research PhD and a personal trainer. Is it any wonder the average person is so confused about nutrition when the show doesn't even get it? Needless to say, I never got a call back and I can't say for sure it was because I wasn't

willing to say that 100 pound weight loss in 12 weeks was okay, but I suspect that was a big part of it. Honestly, it sucked. That would have been a huge opportunity for my business and to take my company to the next level. However, I wouldn't be completely against our missions. It wouldn't, it would have been completely against our mission statement. That is not what at teen biolane or nutrition coaching app, carbon diet coach or supplement lines. Okay. A lot of things are plugs there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then he goes on. Does he go on right here to to jab any more of the people that chose to be on it? Or is that it right there? Oh, let me see here Because I know that like in the comments. No, he didn't really say anything about the people on the show

Yeah, I mean, okay, so truth be told did you see the response to Erica fit love? Well, I did see what so she was saying now truth Be told what he's saying is 100% accurate. Yeah, that's correct It's it's entertainment, right? So it would be like making a cop show as real as possible or ER, but as real as possible, right? So when you're showing people losing weight, if you do it the real way, it's a long process. It's not going to be as entertaining. It's not the super high-intense,

you know, make you cry every single day. They're on a production schedule, which is like they have to accelerate everything. And, you know, to try and pretend that that's going to be a healthy practice is just like, it's just not the case. It's not. Yeah, I thought it was interesting that even though Erica's name is not said in this whatsoever, or Norris Steve Cook, although everybody knows that they were the last two trainers said in this whatsoever, nor a Steve Cook, although everybody knows that they were the last two trainers on Biggest Loser. She took personal attack from this and wrote a whole post in response to this about the fitness space being so judgy.

And you know, she tagged us in one of the comments. Yeah, we got tagged. That's the reason why I'm addressing it, because we got lumped into this conversation. And in fact, I commented under Lane's thing and my statement, I said that biggest loser has done more harm than good, change my mind. It's all I said. Because I 100% get behind what Lane says.

I agree with what he said. Now, he did kind of attack somebody's integrity that did. Now, where I'll defend Erica, I know Erica, okay? And she's got a huge heart and she comes from an incredible good place. And I think she just doesn't know better. Correct. I think that if I go back to my,

I don't know what year she is on as far as like, how many years she's actually been trained clients or how many certifications and what her educational background is, but I'm pretty sure it probably looks similar to what mine did for the first couple of years that I was a personal trainer. And I wouldn't know any better back then.

And so I think that she comes from a good place, but Lane is actually 100% correct in this. And I don't know why she decided to throw, you know. I don't think he's specifically attacking their integrity. He's saying, I can't do this because it's against my integrity. So that doesn't necessarily look, here's a deal. If you're, there's a lot of trainers by the way

who employ these methods and it's not because they have bad integrity, but rather this is the way they think it should be done. So they see somebody who's obese and they think, all you need is lots of motivation and I need to hype you up and push you. And, you know, we're gonna make this happen and it's gonna change overnight

and that just doesn't work, it just doesn't work. It never works. So when you learn that, and by the way, it took me a long time to figure that out. So it's not like I knew this right out the gates, it took me a while. I mean, if I had a client, my first five years as a trainer who wanted to lose 100 pounds,

I would try to get them to lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks. And if I did, I would think it would be a tremendous success. In fact, I probably brag about it. Well, later on, you figure out, this is a failing strategy. It sets them up for problems in the future. And so I couldn't, you know, later on if you asked me to do something like that,

I'd say, I can't, sorry, it doesn't work. That's not the right way to do it. So. I think Lane actually in the comments section was a little more, he didn't name anybody. Oh, then he did when I knew him. But he was a little more direct about like, if you were, if you're the type of person

that would go on this show, then you lack integrity, right? That you're, that you, and I don't, it's harsh to hear that. You know, it stinks. It stinks and, you know, and he's not wrong. And again, like to the point of not knowing better, like I think that's a big part of it.

And like, so you see like a Julian Michaels or you see a big opportunity where this Hollywood company basically is like offering this fame, like more notoriety. And change your whole life. And you haven't had all the experience to back up, you know, a lot of your efforts in terms of training people, coaching people, you're just kind of thrown out there

to perform and be energetic and hyped and all those types of things. Cause that's what the producer wants you to do. And so for the producers, they want that type of person. So they want the new trainer. They want the person that has, you know, as charismatic is, you know, as a character. It's somebody that they can sort of like,

write out the whole narrative behind like what the show was gonna be about. And so it's a little bit predatory on their end, but also too, like, also too, you gotta understand, like there's people in this industry that have been doing it for decades. And they've gone through all these types of clients before, and there's a wealth of knowledge and wisdom.

Wisdom is the key here. Wisdom comes with experience. So unfortunately, that is a factor. Yeah, it's TV. Like if you watch TV, and you, I need to, I don't care what you're watching on TV. If you're watching TV and you think, oh, this is real, you've been fooled. I don't care if it's a reality show or a drama. The job of the TV, you know, producers is to make it entertaining. And so if you're picking a trainer for a show, you're looking for, what are you looking for? Right, those are all the things that Justin said.

Charisma, a great back story. Are they good looking? Are they entertaining? You're not looking for the best trainer. That's not what you're looking for. Because your job is to make a good TV show. Because it would be boring. It may be a long process.

Now here's a deal, okay. Yeah, we could place, we're gonna place blame on the coach on the trainers place, we're gonna place blame on the co, on the trainers, or we're gonna place blame on the TV producers. You can, I can understand why you do that, but here's the ultimate blame. The ultimate blame is on us. The consumer.

Yeah, the consumers. Okay, if consumers get a views. If we didn't watch that kind of stuff, they wouldn't make it. A consumer said, this is unsustainable. This is not real life. I want to watch something that's real and that's healthy, then they would make something that's real and healthy.

This is not the way it works. So it's TV, that's what you can expect from TV. So it's not surprising. And I mean, look, we've all talked about that. I mean, if a show like this came to us, I mean, you know what I would try to do? I would see the opportunity, and my goal would be to convince them. They would never let you. I don't think it was. It's just like we're having a lane. They would be like, hey, this is what I would try to do? I would see the opportunity, and my goal would be to convince them.

They would never let you. Yeah, I don't think it was. It's just like what happened to Lane. They would be like, hey, this is what I wanna do. Just to hit it right on the head. They have a narrative. They have a story they wanna tell them. There's a reason why you pick the people,

you pick to be the coaches, because they wanna tell a story. And it's not you get to come on and convince them and tell your story. You're not gonna change the formula that's made the millions of dollars. Yeah, no, they're not gonna do that. So, and I think that's part of Lane's point

is that you have to conform. But my, me defending Erica is that, I don't think she knows, she still doesn't know better. I mean, if you watch how she trains, she still thinks that it's like, you have your way of training, they have their way of training, we all are disagreeing on things. This works for me.

Right. And I would challenge that. And that's just because you're not there yet. You think because you lost someone 30 or 50 pounds temporarily that you've changed your life. No, you haven't. You have not. You got them to lose 30 or 50 pounds right now.

What you didn't do is you didn't give them long-term behaviors. Check back in with me those five, those people in five years. Because you got them moving like crazy and reducing calories, you got them temporary success. But unless they address the issues, why they put that way back on it and you gave them more of a sustainable routine. And the reason why I know that's not what she's giving is because I can see the way she trains herself. She still trains like she's one of the biggest loser. Everything's high intensity and moving

and cardio and supersets and burn, burn, burn, burn. And that's a failing, and we've, people that have been in the space like Lane or ourselves as long as we have know this is a long-term failing method. Maybe short-term like Lane's point is. But I don't think this is an integrity issue. I think that she's an amazing person.

I think she has an incredible heart. Yeah, I think to her defense, she's looking at this and saying, we're helping these people. We're gonna lose weight and it worked for me. And here's a deal. If you look at people who employ these strategies to lose a lot of weight,

you're gonna look at probably close to a 90 or 95% fail rate, right? But that means there's a 5 to 10% quote unquote success rate and success as measured by someone who has maintained the weight loss for let's say five to 10 years, is typically how they count it, right? So they're not looking at lifetime, it's like when you look at cancer survival,

they say five years, they don't look at 15 or 20. It's about five to 10 years that they'll look at this. Now, how do those people five to 10 years later keep the weight off employing these methods? It is fanatical and it is not something that most people want to do. In fact, the fanaticism that allows you to keep beating the shit out of your body and restricting yourself,

I would argue is unhealthy. So it's failing across the board. It's not a successful strategy across the board. Definitely not for the 90% of the people who end up getting the way back, but also for the 5 to 10% who figure out a way to make themselves so fanatical about what they're doing and beating themselves up. That's also failing. You see what those people, by the way, is a lot of hormone issues. You see lots of stress. You see lots of other issues with food, turn into issues with other things. You sometimes see injuries and problems along those lines. By the way, I want to be very clear. I know we sound very like, we could sound very judgy right now. Look,

nobody's perfect. Everybody does something wrong or whatever. Lane. Lane, it hurt. How many times does Lane hurt his back doing the same shit over and over again, right? So he didn't know any better either, although he's trying to do his best. He's, he had to figure out later on, oh, mobility is very important. So, and I've had those issues myself. So nobody's perfect, but this one for us is quite clear because this is what I worked on for literally two decades because you got to consider the average person that we trained over two decades is the person that wants to lose weight. It's also very misleading when you're the trainer because you think that you're having

success because your clients are telling you how much they love you and that you are getting them on the scale and they're down 20 pounds. And you're high five in each other and you're celebrating what you think is success and it is success, it's just temporary success and it's not done the correct way because what it eventually ends up happening is 85% of those people put all that way back on because of the methods that you chose to get there.

I mean, and wait, why this isn't judgy. This is exactly what I talk about. I was as a trainer. I know I'm guilty of this. I didn't know any better. If you were to ask somebody who I train in years one through three, they would tell you I was a phenomenal trainer. They love me.

I had a great personality. I was positive full of motivation. I answered the questions. They asked me. I pushed them through their workouts. But then you asked them, did you keep the weight off? That's right. It was a major check-in with myself five years later when I'm looking at the trophies,

the accolades, and people telling me how great I am and me really going like, man, okay, at this point in my career, I know I've definitely trained a few hundred people, where are they all at today? It's such an uphill battle. And when the percentage is less than 10% of them have really fundamentally changed their life forever, not temporarily, not for a good run for six months to a year, but forever, I had to say, man,

there's not a lot. Most of them depend on me and my motivation to keep that weight off or keep them in shape. And that's because I was employing the wrong things early on and I didn't know any better. It wasn't a lack of integrity. I didn't think that I was manipulating these people. I don't think she's doing that either.

I just think she doesn't know any better. And then you get someone like Lane, who just loves the fucking attack shit like that. Just loves to beat somebody up. It's an uphill battle in the fitness and health space, right? We've been pushed this kind of false paradigm of weight loss now for a very, very long time. And then on top of it, if you're somebody who,

you know, wants to lose 75 pounds or 80 pounds or 60 pounds even, during the period of time that you've gained that weight, at some point you've kind of turned off your awareness around it, right? Because you don't want to face the music. You don't really be face the reality that, man, I am not taking care of myself or man, this is becoming an issue. But then at some point, 80 pounds later, you have this kind of realization or this awareness, you're like, I got to do something about this. And then this happens, you become impatient. I need to do something about it.

Now, I want this weight gone. Now, That's it, I want to change now. Now you go to the trainer who says, okay, it's gonna take us two years to do this. It's a long process. We're dealing with deep seated issues. We're gonna have to develop skills like discipline. We're gonna have to develop a sustainable routine. Then you go to the other trainer that goes,

you listen, you do what I say in three months, it'll be gone. Who are you gonna go to, right? You're now finally in this place where you're like, I want this weight gone. I can't believe I've done this to myself. You want it gone in three months it'll be gone. Who are you gonna go to, right? You're now finally in this place where you're like, I want this way gone, I can't believe I've done this to myself, you want it gone in three months. You don't wanna do a two year long process. The people who tend to go to the two year long process, the people that have tried the three month solution

and failed three, four, five, you know how many times have you gotten clients who wanna lose 30 pounds and they've lost that same 30 pounds four times before? Right. A good chunk. It's almost never the first time by the way that they come to us. I think, well, and I think to just, I was trying to think about this because I do, like, I care for people like this that really have a big heart about like changing lives and,

you know, doing better and doing big things. The thing is once you get to a point where you get a lot more attention, you get a lot more people listening, a lot of America, everybody's buying into your methods, you really have to check yourself, you have to be open to criticism, you have to be open to educating yourself even further,

you can't just stop there. It's just because you think it works in a certain direction in terms of losing weight, you have to play that all the way out and see how this rolls all the way out. And then be receptive to change. And so I'm sick of this whole thing of feelings are the standard now. Like feelings, because I feel this way, it's right.

It's not right. I'm sorry, but you have to deal with that. If it's not right, it's not right. Yeah, but you know, it's easier said than done, right? You're talking about, of course. You're talking about like, you've built this identity that now is your success. And now you have to say, hey, that was wrong.

Like, that's a really tough thing to do. It's a tough pill to swallow. Yeah, I didn't find it very strongly with it. It's probably lots of success. You've gotten lots of people. I wish I wish that Erica would have left it alone because Elaine didn't call her out. And we never were judging.

And definitely not. So, I mean, we got nothing but love for her. I mean, anytime her name ever comes up out of one of our mouths on this show, I think we speak highly and respectful for this and man. She was, she's, I mean, how, that's not fair for me to, to judge her as a trainer. And she's on year, what two or three or four, where she's at, we're 20 years deep. Come on. Right. I mean, if, I hear, and here's the other thing I have to ask myself, if, if someone came to me, 23 year old me and said, we love you and your clients love you and you have to stop. We want to put you on TV.

We want to put you on TV. You mean you have people who lose weight? Yeah, I know where I was at 20 years old. I was just starting to take off in life and that opportunity, I would see dollar signs and opportunity. I think about it this way. Let's say that happened, right? Let's put ourselves in those shoes, right?

23-year-old us, we get approached by NBC, come on the show, your phenomenal. It would be the most exciting thing you get to do. You get to help these people. You become successful. You become famous as a result. Would you have ever, later on, reevaluated your methods? Yeah, I know. It would have been very challenging.

Even now, and much later, 20 years later, almost 20 years later, I don't think I would have looked back or looked at myself and said, oh man, that was a... Because that's what you become. The way I used to train people like, five, six years ago, even. There's some things that I did that I'm like, ah, why was I subscribing to that?

But that's just the thing. You can't even work out. The naked workouts, why did I do that? You burn more calories, okay? Well, I think that's also the, you know, to your point, just, this is the hard part of when you become so famous, like on T from TV or social media, and I mean, you're drinking your own

Kool-Aid, exactly. You know, who's gonna tell me? And then it turns into, and that's what's unfortunate. You're gonna be the voice of reason for you. What's unfortunate about the messages between both, you know, Lane and her back and forth, is that it's turned into all of a sudden, there's different ideologies out there.

And it's like, well, no, this is where I'm gonna support Lane. Like, there's right ways to do things and there's wrong ways to do this. Yeah, there is no, it's not subjective. This is not an opinion thing. Yeah, it's exactly, it's not an opinion. It's not of like, oh, we are all, both help, we're all helping people.

You help people your way, I help people my way. It's like of like, oh, we are all, both help, we're all helping people. You help people your way, I help people my way. It's like, no, there's actually a clear difference here. You think you're helping people, you're helping people temporarily. You're not actually changing their behaviors long term. And you won't know that until you've been in this game long and that's the thing. This is just an extreme example of this fitness paradigm

that has been pushed for so long, which is burn as many calories as you can while you're working out. That's what's important. And then eat as little as possible because that's what gets the weight loss. Therefore, that's what's going to solve your problem. And it's actually super false. In fact, you know, it's funny. So yesterday, I was in LA, right?

And I was on a couple podcasts down there. And right before I got on Max's podcast, he was interviewing me about the book. So I was looking up more new studies on resistance training because I wanted to bring up some new fresh stuff that I had found. And I found a study, this is a newer one I wasn't familiar with, that showed that muscle has a protective effect in terms of insulin sensitivity and protective against diabetes on your body regardless of body fat. Okay. In other words, you take someone who's really obese,

you have them build muscle. They now have a more protective effect against the ravages of diabetes or they have better insulin sensitivity as a result. So regardless of how much you weigh. Now is that just simply metabolically? Because now they have more muscle. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Their body requires more calories. Therefore, you can almost guarantee that an X amount more calories can get partitioned just to keep it in the bowl. Not just that, right? Muscle is a one way your body stores glycogen and utilizes glucose. And it's very, it improves insulin sensitivity. Being weak and having little muscle is very strongly connected to developing issues with diabetes, Alzheimer's, dementia,

all the issues that develop from having insulin issues. So muscle is protective no matter what. Now why am I saying this? Because if you're following the old fake wrong fitness paradigm, like they do on biggest loser. You know what's happening to all those obese people? They ain't build a muscle, they're losing everything. They're losing everything.

They're losing everything. Are they healthier? Maybe a little bit. In the long term, are they healthier? No. They're not. They're smaller versions of themselves, but they're not that much healthier,

especially when they gain the weight back, because typically when you lose the muscle and the fat, so you lose a bunch of weight, but you lose muscle with it. And then you gain the weight back. You don't gain the muscle back. You now gain the fat back. So the guy who lost a hundred who ends up gaining 100 pounds again,

he ends up gaining 100 pounds of pure body fat and none of the muscle that he lost. That's, I mean, part of this, this issue is that people don't grasp this, right? If, if you do wait, just because you lift weights, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to build muscle. No, resistance training, the way that I talk about it in the book is not just using resistance, okay? Running uses resistance, the resistance of my body, right? With gravity, I could use dumbbells and barbells and workouts, that doesn't make it resistance training.

What makes it resistance training is you're using resistance in a way specifically programmed to build strength and build muscle. That's it, right? So I could give someone a pair of dumbbells and barbells and give them a pure cardio workout. No problem. It is not resistance training. Just because you're using weights doesn't make it resistance training because again, you watch the biggest loser and they are using weights, but they're not doing resistance training. Yeah, those people are not and here, if there's any muscle built in those people whatsoever, it's purely out of the novelty side of it

because they haven't touched anything whatsoever. But the likelihood that you're gonna be in a calorie restricted diet, you're gonna be doing cardio, plus doing cardio with weights, and what we call cardio with weights is all those superset exercises where you're doing lunges, to a bicep curl, to a shoulder press, to a side lunge.

There's no rest. Yeah, that is cardio. And just because you're holding onto weights, you does not mean you get to build muscle. It doesn't work that way. If you're not giving it the building blocks calorie wise, you're not giving yourself adequate rest. You are doing calorie, or you're doing cardio in a calorie restricted place. You're going to not only lose fat, you're going to lose muscle fluid.

And again, the big problem, if you look at these modern science, that's not it. This is not an ideology methodology type of debate here. That's how it works. That's right. If you look at our problems right now, or health problems right now, really what they stem from, I know people say it's inactivity, to some extent it is, but to a larger extent, it's that we're weak,

we're weak, and we have little muscle. You don't believe, if people who are like, ah, that's not true, no, that's true. You know, they do studies on college kids. They've done these studies with college kids where they have them just test or grip. These are guys in their 20s. And their strength is, I think it's like 40% weaker than guys in their 80s when they were

squeezing, doing the same grip test. We're just weak. And what happens when you don't give your body a reason to have strength and have muscles, your body gets rid of it. Your body's never stronger than it needs to be. I promise you, it's only as strong as it needs to be. If you sit in a chair all day long, your body will adapt so that that's about

the strong as you are. The environment that you present it continually. So that's what you always have to keep in mind. Yeah, so you just got a weak body with very little protection against the ravages of lots of food and modern life. Well, I feel like a lot of this, I mean, this is really what the resistance training revolution is all about in the world.

This is what you address. We need to change the conversation. The conversation's wrong. I would love to see, and I don't know if this will ever exist, but I'd love to see a show where that's what they're focusing on. Hey, I'm here. I need to lose 100 pounds. No problem, Mr. Johnson.

We're gonna get you strong. Never. We're gonna get you really strong. We're gonna get you a dead lift. I'm gonna get you. Never, it's not entertaining enough. You know, it's a really strong, we're gonna get you a deadlift. I'm gonna get you a deadlift. It's not entertaining enough. You know, I mean, to be honest with you, when I remember that I actually watched

biggest loser when it first, the first couple of seasons were actually pretty good. What happened was it became a game. And it became all about manipulating the scale. That's what got the ratings, isn't it? And that's what got all the, it was the drama behind the scenes. So the change, the show evolved.

So if you've been watching since I've watched, since the very beginning, it was a, a 24-finish, I think, was a part of the original. They did it. They did, they did, they was late a little bit later. They, remember when they did the, which is, I wrote, I mean, I was shame on 24-finish from doing this.

I mean, they, after the biggest loser, they had, there was a huge surge in circuit training again. So curves did it originally. Right, then they put that circuit in the front of the... That's right. And that was all part of it. Was it called the Flex Zone or some... Some Schindler demand.

That's right. And so they put it in there. And I remember, at that point in my career, I already know this is not the way. And so I remember being really frustrated as a manager when I was getting messages, emails from upper management saying that my trainers needed to coach people through it and take people with them like fuck dad. No way I'm taking it, let my trainers do that.

Which type of you were so much. I know I was it. I know for management loved and hated you. But he makes just so much money. Right, that's right. But he doesn't want to do it. How would I just hit goal? You guys let me run this place.

You fight it. You fight it. That's why you're never gonna fire, right? It's because you just crushed. Well, that was the, I mean, I was told that early on, right? I remember having mentors that had been in the space before me and said, listen, Adam, if you don't like what they're telling you, you don't want to do the things they're doing,

then you just, you crush goal. You crush goal, and they'll leave you alone. So, and that was me too. Yeah, same big, Chris goal and run it the way you want to run it. That's hilarious. But anyway, so I wanted to talk just about yesterday again because I did go see Max and Jen Cohen So Max Max Lugovir one of my favorite people in the world. I'll tell you what man I wish I had a sister that I could hook him up with I swear to God

I love this guy so much. He's such a great guy, but he's like this eternal bachelor It's it's so funny, right? So he's obviously good looking smart guy, very successful, but he's just this bachelor that it's funny. We were hanging out afterwards and he's like, man, he goes, I don't, I just have issues with commitment. I just can't. I'm like, bro, you're getting like so many girls are probably throwing themselves at you because you're so, you got all these, you're checking all the boxes, you're a great guy, whatever. Yeah, good looking successful guy. Super nice. Oh, he's swimming in the tank. He's just, he's, he's, he's doing stuff.

And so I'm like, I mean, it's hard to make a commitment when, you know, you just, you just, you got to, you know, you need a snorkel because it's just your drowning, you know. Now off air to you, have you talked to him now? Is he always been that way or was he a little more socially awkward and quiet, he growing up and then he's, he's blossomed into this, you know,

he's famous guy. It's notomed into this, you know, famous guy. It's not that he's definitely nerdy, right? But he's confident in his nerdiness, which is what makes him charismatic. That's what makes him charismatic, right? So, I mean, I love the guy. I mean, him and I can hang out with that guy forever and have great conversation.

So, but yeah, so he's like, man, I got these, and I'm like, listen, you're looking in the wrong place. It's first of all, you live in LA. So I'm pretty sure you're not gonna find, you know, the person you wanna settle down with. That's a tough one. Here, I said, there, so, you know, people are throwing themselves at you left and right.

They didn't solve all the women in LA right now. Yeah, what did I ever sell? Yeah, just, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm, I know there's good, you know, whatever, but you know, there's that whole scene down there, right, especially where, you know, where he's- You just don't like LA in the vibe. I get it. Yeah, well, I mean, it's good people down there. Don't get me wrong. I go down there quite a bit.

But yeah, it's hilarious. We're having that conversation, but he's, you know, I went in his, he's got his new recording studio. Oh, so is that at his place? That's what it is. That's what his apartment is. Yeah, great place. Yeah, we went in there. We hung out a little bit and his, and he's such a bachelor, right? You go into his place. It's nice, but you can tell like he's just a dude that lives there. So he's got like one guitar hanging out over here,

another girl, you know he sings, do you guys not? Dude, so you showed me he had an album. No, I didn't. Is that real or is that real? That's real, dude. That's real. I'm actually jealous of that. No, it sounds awesome.

He sounds good too. Where can we find it? I don't know. I think you'd have to go on his Instagram. Oh, I'm still gonna blow him up. At the end of this, Andrew, you got gotta play at least like a bit of that. Yeah, so yeah, so we're gonna be back. So we're gonna start here.

Yeah, a little back. We need to be inspired. And this kitchen is like just full of all these supplements and you know, because company send them stuff all the time. So I'm like, I'm in heaven, right? So I'm walking through, looking at, I open one drawer. So he works at Paleo Valley like we do.

Yeah. I open one drawer and it's literally meat sticks. And I mean, there's probably, I don't know, 500 meat sticks in there. He's like, hey, you know, you can have some if you want. You can't have it. You wouldn't even know this if I take a couple of. You know, they've doubled in size this last year. Paleo?

Yeah, I was actually talking to Shawna for a year, yesterday. She actually sent me a really nice message. Started working with us. Yeah, we did. Well, you know, I tell you what. So my, my cousin, he sent me over. So my cousin, he sent me over, he sent me over a picture of the, what's that other brand, Epic Beef Turkey.

He goes, hey, what do you think of these? And I'm like, I said, that was a company we talked to for a little bit. We didn't want to work with them. I was like, bro, if you've not had paleo valet and he's like, no, never heard of them. So I had a, Sean actually sent him over a package, which I thought was really cool. And they just, never heard of them. So I had a, Sean actually sent him over a package, which I thought was really cool.

And they just, they clown on everybody. I have never had, bro, I love that. We gotta bring that back. Yeah, clown, clown. I love that. Grass-fed beef jerky is tough to make taste really, really good. Let's just be honest.

I mean, so this thing moist. And yeah, not to like shit on all those other brands because I think that's just a tough task. I think it's tough to get grass-fed beef turkey to taste really, really good. Payo Valley nailed that one. It's so funny I was walking, so I was walking to the studio yesterday

and our neighbors here, so you guys know we have like a tattoo place like above the stairs and all that and they're outside and I was just walking up and they're like, beef stick out. And I was like, what? They didn't even recognize you from Mind Pump just from the beef stick out. No, the beef stick out.

I was like, cause they're running it right now and it's on a lot of people Instagram. Oh wow, that's so cool. And so I was like, oh, that's so weird, you know, like, but I was like, cool, yeah. Beef stick out. Yeah. Pately O'Valley

He's he's out growing us Adam. I know You both are probably all by myself. We'll talk you with yeah, you big time in us with the book over here Justin with the commercials. I'm the most loyal guy for man. I gotta get some going on for myself I know how failure I do Jan then I met with Jen right? Yeah, she's got to be the, like, the, like, the, I don't, I can't, I don't even figure out the word. She's such a, she's such a closer. Like, she can, meet people, connect with people

and get shit done. I think she has never met me. I disagree with you. I think she's a female version of us. She's just been in LA. Maybe. You stick me in LA. No, no, no, no, no.

She's fire, bro. You got to hear her talk. She's so charismatic and so like I watch her Ted talk it is a whole thing about being bold and that's her you know So and I and I kind of get that in terms of her just like totally going for it You know like with everything. I mean look at her podcast like where it's gone from when she started She's got like these huge celebrities on when she came in and saw us us. I remember having, I talked to her for like two hours afterwards and she's like, you know what?

And I remember her like, what do you think I should name it? And she's like throwing names out there. Like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna go back home, I'm doing this. And then she did. Yeah, I called me a lot more. And people say that, then they don't follow up. And it's, yeah, so she's one of those kind.

And then she did it and then she killed it, you know what I'm saying? She killed it. And she's really, really good at conversation. Very good. It's funny, I did her podcast, right? And so she read my book and then we're doing the thing. And she goes, I feel like you were kind of calling me out during the whole book. I'm like, what do you mean?

She's like, I was the cardio maniac. I'm the person who talk about in the book. And it's causing problems. She's like, my ankle's bothering me, my hips bothering me. She's like, I'm trying to lift more weights. And she goes, but I have this problem, which is hilarious because when we were there, there was a production staff from one of the companies that she's working with. So there was like a bunch of guys there

and other people working. So she's telling me this and they're kind of listening in and she goes, and now I have this issue. She's like, my butt is just, it's big now, it's too big. She's like, I need it to shrink. And the guys are looking at me like, and I'm looking at them like, do you know how many people trying to throw their butt, are you crazy?

Say how do I shrink my butt? I'm like, I don't know, stop moving. That's a great commercial for us. Yeah, dude, I'm like, really? Oh man, what's wrong with you? Who wants to shrink their butt? Groups of butt too big. Talking about Jen Cohen, I love her, right?

And so right now I'm a mentor like my cousin. I have a cousin that's like, and he's not like young anymore. He's been mentoring him since he was like 17, 18 years old. He's now 30 plus and he's very successful. But he's found himself in this like range and I don't want to put his business as far as his finances out in the like everybody's.

But he's deep into six figures and he's trying to move out of that and he's like overwhelmed with stuff. And the conversation, we had a really long conversation, and it reminds me of something that I think Jennifer has a major strength, reminds me of what I think has attributed to a lot of success. With MindPump, we don't talk about it very much on the show, but how important a relationship building is in the pursuit of scaling something to that magnitude, right?

Like doing it on your own is, you're either going to drive yourself on the ground or it's not going to happen. Well, to and to give you, and I know we brought this up a long time ago, but I don't think people realize like how we address that initially, and like what you did with spreadsheets and follow ups, and you know, like making sure, like we're giving things back to some of our friends to make sure that relationship is still active and alive. And so there's a lot of work to go through.

Yeah, I learned this pretty early on in my career, how valuable it was. And so obviously when we came into this business, it was something that I was prepared for that we needed to. And it got so overwhelming with the amount of relationships that we built that we've employed people to help me with that and to keep me organized. And really, the idea behind it is that these people that you meet, you have to go with it with, I want to add value to their life and you're not looking for anything return. It's not like, oh, if I do this for mind-pump guys,

maybe they'll do this for me. It's like, no, like, I really like these guys. I really like what they stand for, so I'm just gonna be a good person to them. Like, when you talk about people like Max Lugavir and the thing like we did for his mother when she passed, right, and we sent her, or before she passed, we sent her over to the club.

Yeah, that wasn't, we weren't thinking that was a business. No, it was just like, yeah, you're doing something for a person that you should. That's right, we met him, we like him, we care about him as a person, he's a good dude. And so you make mental note of that. And when you, when you live your life that way where you're trying to do for others

and help other people, it's got this unbelievable compounding effect down the road. But it's not an instant thing. You know what the irony of that is Adam, is that if you're doing it for the reason of getting the compounding effect back, it doesn't work. It doesn't work, no, it has to be authentic.

You have to be genuine about it, isn't that strange? You have to be genuine and care about other people and wanting to do good things for other people. And if you lead with that, and you're always leading with that, eventually it does come around full circle. And it's an amazing, and I feel like Jennifer Cohen's an example of that. She is. She around full circle and it's an amazing and I feel like

Jennifer Cohen's an example of that. She's somebody who does, she's in LA where there's a lot of people that are trying to build things and do things. It's like the hub for California as far as you know what we do right. So in entertainment business and tech and podcasting in YouTube and she's done it obviously done an incredible job since she started with building relationships And she's likable, right? I mean, we that's how we built a relationship We met it. In fact, I remember we almost didn't have on the show. Yeah, we were at I know about this girl It doesn't sound like it's kind of our style is that well, let's me and we meet her and what happens? I we loved her. We loved her. We really like her. She built a great relationship with her

So I mean, I can't stress that enough, like how important that is in business and scaling and growing because you'll eventually reach a ceiling by yourself. And this is what I said to my cousin, I said, if you're happy where you're at, you did it, man. You did a great job. You're an entrepreneur, you're making deep six figures,

you got freedom to come and go as you please, you could take days off, you could try, you do whatever you want, like, but I know he has aspirations to go beyond that. And I said, you're at a sticking point. And you think it's all these little things that are falling out of place or cause you were late to this,

that nah dude, you are personally spread so thin that you've reached, you've reached your ceiling. And until you've learned to bring other people on that you can then rely on, you won't break past them. You know it's the beauty of that, and that's very true. The beauty of that is in a capitalism, real capitalism, not fake capitalism, or real capitalism. In order to succeed, you have to give other people

what they want. You can't succeed any other way. Now, of course, there's, you know, where you can work in government, where you force people to give you money, you could do behind the scenes deals and be crooked. But in real capitalism, you're not gonna become a successful millionaire or even especially billionaire

if people hate you. If everybody hates you, nobody wants to work with you, nobody wants your products, you're not providing anybody value, it ain't gonna happen. So you can be as greedy as you fucking wanna be, but the only way you're gonna get what you want is by giving other people what they want. This is a wonderful protection mechanism. It's actually, so people are just talking about, we all need to work together, everybody needs to work together. That's what happens. People voluntarily work together and sure oftentimes it's

in their own self interest, but they have to give other people what they want otherwise they're not gonna become. Now you hit max up, you hit gin up, and then you did all this in a day in LA, you flew back. What was traveling like our grenade? Oh man, oh, you know, I haven't traveled since the whole COVID thing. I know that's right.

It's kind of weird. What was it like for you? It's just weird, everybody's with their mask and it's kind of, you know, they have the seats kind of partitions off in the airport. Oh, they did, because the last time I flew, it felt like every seat was packed. No, the airplane it was, but I'm talking about

in the airport, and there wasn't. But yeah, it felt like it was dad in there, or did it feel, no, no, it was LAX, it's crazy. No, no, no, no, it was popping, but it was late, because the last, the only flight available for me was, I left, I mean, we took off at like almost 10 o'clock.

Oh wow. Yeah, so I was, and I had gotten up at 5 a.m. that morning. Oh, that's a long day. Yeah, so, and then I, you know, so I was prepared, right? So I knew this would kind of happen. I thought, all right, you know, because there were two flights, either I made the 5 p.m. one or the one that was at 9.30. I heard you, I did you know that our team knew better and actually booked you the old, of course.

Yeah, because I'm like, okay, maybe I'll make the five. This guy's like, I'm going to make, this guy tells Katrina and Jerry that he's going to make, he's going to make the five o'clock. He's going to make five o'clock. He's got two things he's going to do in different locations, NLA, giving himself a two-hour window. And when it's two hours in between any spot, I'm like, when Katrina told me that, I started laughing.

I'm like, Sal told you he would make five. He knows better. Him and I have been down there so many times. I, look, you know, sometimes you got a dream. Yeah, it's good. Because I'm like, you know why? Maybe there's not traffic anymore. Dude, that means I'm gonna get home by time I get home.

It's never like that down there. It's midnight. I got a baby, right? So he's not gonna, you know, that's really where you're at. Your head was at, I went, I want to be a home man. Oh, I'm fucked. I was going to be screwed. And so I prepared, so I had gonna, you know, that's really where you're at. Your head was at, I went, I wanna be at home, man. Oh, I'm fucked.

I was gonna be screwing, so I prepared, so I had my, you know, I had my headphones that do the, the noise cancelling. I had my brain FM. My, yeah, brain FM, I had the Felix Gray glasses, as soon as I got to the airport, actually as soon as I got in the Uber, put them on so that my brain could at least be ready

for sleep by the time I got home, because I was already hyped, right? I'm hyped from all these podcasts, I'm hyped for, and I'm like, oh, and the bright lights in the airport and the plane. So I had my Felix Trays on the whole time. It definitely helped.

So by the time I got home, I was able to go to sleep, but then of course, my son decides to have one of those rough nights. So, and my wife, she really, really tries to, you know, kind of shield me to help me sleep. But I mean, I'm gonna wake up, right? Cause he's crying or whatever.

So I'm in and out. It's always when you're at ear most vulnerable. Oh, dude, like when you're having the roughest days when they like to challenge. Dude, I'm so tired. Now you have a spare room, so you don't, do you get up and go over there like when that happens?

Or like, it's supposed to be on a night like that? Or? Well, I mean, okay, let's say I do do that, right? It means I got up and had to go somewhere else and I've broken up my sleep and it's like I'm getting tons of sleep anyway so it's still gonna wake up in the morning to get ready and come back.

I mean, that's my routine right now at five o'clock. It's actually one of the cutest things in the world though to see because I hear him first, he's waking up around five a.m. right now, especially when he goes down at seven or seven thirty, he wakes up about five. Sometimes we're lucky, five thirty, but even sometimes four thirty, like he'll get up early. But what he does is he wakes up about five. Sometimes we're lucky, 530, but even sometimes 430, like he'll get up early.

But what he does is he wakes up, Katrina gives him a little bit of milk and he falls back to sleep with her in the bed right away. Like he just takes, like he's waking up hungry probably, gets a little bit of milk, crashes right back with her and they sleep. But the irony is, if I'm in the bed, he doesn't go back to sleep.

That's because you're in the plane. You're in the plane, you're in the plane, yeah. He sees that and you know, I don't know if I told you guys this, but doesn't go back to sleep. That's because you're in the playroom. You're a fun guy. Yes, he sees that. And I don't know if I told you guys this, but I play this game with him where I pretend like I'm snoring. It was like one of the cutest things ever. So we'll be reed. Like when we read during his before bath time, right?

And I'm reading before he goes to bed. After we're done reading a few books, I'll try to get him ready for bed. I'll roll on and be like, oh, it's time to go to bed. Dad's sleeping. And I'll pretend like I'm snoring. And I've done it so many times now that he does it now. He just pretends like he's snoring.

And then he comes over, he wakes me up and then I act like I'm all startled. Why totally fucked myself? Because I've trained him this way. So when I'm actually really sleeping, he's going to be slapping me in the face and he's laughing. Because he thinks I'm playing. He thinks I'm playing with him.

He's such a bear when you wake up. I know, dude. So, yeah, I climb, when he gets up, or when I hear him crying and waking up, Katrina gets up, I get up, Katrina goes downstairs of the milk, I go in the spare room, and I go sleep in there. That way, everybody can sleep for another two hours

because if I'm in the bed, he gets up and he wants to play the entire morning. No, that's my, that's so, same thing. So, it's funny, right? Because your kids will associate one parent with one thing. So if he's stirring, she can't go in there and just calm him down by putting her hand on him because he either smells her or knows it's her

and he knows she's got milk. So he's like, I'm not going back to sleep, but if I do it, sometimes he'll go back to sleep because dad ain't got no milk. So he's like, I got to go back to sleep. Hey, speaking of that, he got no milk. That, you know, each parent kind of represents something different, right, for your kid.

There's a thing on TikTok that's going vow right now, and I can't wait to go home and just try it and see what happens. Oh, when you run. Yes. So both parents hold the kids hand. And my son's age is probably perfect ages to do this. Adds to somewhere between, you know, once they're walking,

right, so one to two years old, somewhere in there. And you're each holding their hand, and then you have somebody like across the way. So let's say Katrina and I are over there with Max, and I'm videoing it, or someone else's videoing it, and then we both let go of Max's hand and run opposite direction. See who we follow? Yeah. And that's like a TikTok thing right now to see which way, and the one I saw was Dad all

three times. And they even switched what side the kid, they're holding on though and it was so funny because the kid runs the dad first two times right away to the left and they're like okay let's switch let's put dad on the right and so the kid initially starts to run the left and then realizes he's running towards mom and then runs the other direction towards dad you know that you have to do another experiment though like have him like scrape their arm or something and then see which person is. Okay, so this is why I brought this up.

So this happened yesterday. So I'm playing because I totally think that Max would come my way. It's like protective or fun. I'm that person. I'm hurt. Okay. So him and I are wrestling around on the bean bag and he's getting more, you know, what's the riskier, whatever that, you know,

he's at that age now or he's taking a lot more risk. He's courageous. Yeah, courageous, right? So he's, you know, walking along the edge of that, you know, those bean bags are tall and he falls off, hits his head on the wall and falls on the ground. I mean, definitely loud, cried right away, Katrina comes running down the stairs and I'm like,

and she's like, what happened, what happened? He's okay, he just fell down, he's all right, he's all right, he's all right, I got him. And I'm like, trying to hold him and it's okay, so I'm kissing him on his head and stuff like that. And he sees his mom and he's like, what happened? He's okay, he just fell down, he's all right, he's all right. I go, and I'm like trying to hold him and it's okay so I'm kissing him on his head and stuff like that. And he sees his mom and he's like, oh my God. And I'm like, oh wow.

So he totally is like, a mom's home base. Yeah, mom is food and I don't feel good. Like I lose every time. Dad is fun time. Yeah. This quas brought to you by Organify. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give

your health a performance-the-edited edge. Try Organify totally risk-free for 60 days by going to Organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com. And use a coupon code MindP pump for 20% off at checkout. First question is from Michelle Eilan. Can you build muscle strength and muscle endurance at the same time or in the same programming? Yeah, you can do, you can develop everything at the same time if you want. Here's the take away of the caveat is that you're not going to get much of everything. If you do that, your body, it's got limited capacity to adapt, and

many times one adaptation takes away from another adaptation. For example, if I'm looking for maximum endurance, like let's say I'm doing long distance running, that requires my body to become very efficient with calories to be very light, which also means not have much muscle. Now, if I'm doing that simultaneously with heavy strength training, which is telling my body to not be efficient with calories,

to burn more calories, and to be strong, which requires more muscle, they tend to conflict. And so I'll get a little bit of each, but not a lot of either one. Muscle strength, muscle endurance, they're not as conflicting, but there's some little bit of confliction going on. And so if you train for both at the same time, you'll get a little bit of both, but you won't get a lot of either. I love using the analogy. Justin, what do you call

that? We talked about this before on the show. I think this is, I think, paints the picture so well is, you know, the video game avatar, like attributes. They give you 100 points, but you have to, like, divide them up over. That's right. And speed strength is good. And imagine, and let's just for a minute imagine that attributes, everything that you do in as far as training inside the gym is going to give you one, at least one bar of everything. And then the more specific you are at training for strength, the more bars it's going to go there and the less you're going to get of the other things, right? And so it's kind of like that. So when you when you look at training, yeah, you can train for all of them, but you're only going

to get maybe one more bar on each of them, right? Versus focusing on one specific totally like that. Yeah, it is totally like that. Yeah, yeah, I can totally visualize it. And I know anybody else who's played games like that where you're going through the characters, you're trying to pick the strengths. You know, their specificity does apply. And so if you're taking away from, you know, another direction that you can take your body, you know, that's gonna affect you your overall performance.

And so to try and combine everything together, you know, you could pull off like, pull off, like, you could get some benefit in terms of all of them, but it's gonna be a lot less than you would just focusing completely on it. Yeah, and also, we have to define muscle endurance because that's kind of a broad category, right? So there's the type of muscle endurance that allows you to do 25 reps of a barbell squat.

There's also the muscle endurance that allows you to do 20 sets in a workout. And then's also the muscle endurance that allows you to do 20 sets in a workout. And then there's the muscle endurance that applies to more specific endurance type training, where you're doing long distance running, or rowing, or swimming. So all of those are a little bit different. If you want the muscle endurance allows you to do 20 reps in a squat. Well, that actually complements muscle strength to a certain extent, right? So it's not going to be, it's not entirely muscle strength, but if you're the average person trying to get build overall muscle, actually not a bad idea to do the low reps stuff with

those types of reps in your workouts. In fact, a lot of our workouts are designed that way where you go through different phases. Same thing with volume, right? Total volume is a form of muscle endurance. So for example, a bodybuilder tends to have more muscle endurance in that sense than a powerlifter, right? Bodybuilder may do bit shorter rest periods. They're doing more sets of different exercises. This is how I always used to crush Justin, right? Yeah, oh, right.

Back in the days when we used to work out together. About 40 minutes in, I'm like, yeah. Yeah, well, I had the crazy muscle endurance because I trained that. I had more of a motor. So it's like, yeah, you keep going through those wraps and then you know, your recovery time was a lot shorter versus me where I was like constantly,

like I would do the long wrist periods and I was just adapted to that. Yeah, so yeah, you can get both, but you're not gonna get a lot of either one. So just remember that. Now there's no wrong answer here for somebody, right? So think about what you want. Think about the physical attributes you want.

Think about the adaptations that you want. Now for the average person who's not going to work out very much, does two, three days a week, wants to burn body fat, doing the most effective, efficient way possible, focus on strength. But if you're working out a lot and you're like, look, I like endurance, I like stamina, I also like strength, have fun, do them all, you'll be a jack of all trades, put a king in them. Well, I think there's one aspect too that you have to address is the psychological part

about why I like focusing on one specific attitude. The mental space is totally different. Yeah, the mental space is different and then also the results and the gains in that direction come on faster because you're specific. Right. So, and we know that that's such a big piece to being people being consistent. Like if you decide you're going to write a program

You're going to be consistent about training. You want to see the most results from that right that keeps you motivated and keeps you coming back because you're seeing change If you're kind of doing everything You kind of see a little bit of change everywhere versus okay right now for the next four weeks I'm going to focus on all strength and everything from your dieting to your rest periods to your exercise selection, to your rep range. Everything is centered around that. Sure, you may not get a ton of muscle endurance from that, but you're going to see a lot of change in that direction of strength from focusing on that. And then the same goes for if you're going endurance-wise. So I do think that there's a, even though you said that there's no wrong answer and you

can do both, there is a psychological benefit also to being very specific to what you're trying to train because you'll get more of that right away. Next question is from NP Deering. What exercises do you recommend to increase rotational power? Okay. Rotation obviously twisting, right? And power is speed. So the strength, strength is that low gear type of movement, right?

So like I'm grinding through a heavy squat or a deadlift. That strength. Power is strength with speed. So this is athleticism usually involves a lot of power. So training power with rotation means you're going to train. First of all, if you do train for power, make sure you got good skill, good technique, and good stability.

If you don't have any of those and then you go fast, you're going to probably hurt yourself. Well, and I also think a big misconception with power is that you're also trying to be super controlled on the eccentric part. And so some of the best exercises for rotational power from me are where I take a medicine ball, for instance, and I'm tossing it in a rotational fashion and getting rid of it.

So, it's as much of my maximal effort as possible from the beginning to the end, and then I'm done, and then I'm recovering and composing myself. But for the most part, it's about that pure exertion. It's on command. It's being able to summon that force and then display that power all at once. Now, what are your bands for this, by the way? What is your thoughts, Justin, on,

and where does anti-rotational work contribute to rotational power and strength? Like, is that a must have component to that or just as valuable in training that, if you're... Oh, yeah. No, honestly, I think that that's a little bit more in the strength portion of the rotational strength of because you want to make sure

that you have that kind of control. And so when you're going through these movements, you know how to find your way back to homeostasis, like find your balance and grounding so you can get more explosive. You have to be able to build that foundation. When you're moving on the field, you're explosive, you can reorient and find yourself and be able to stabilize.

You have to be able to slow down that rotation at the same time. When you're just working on pure power moves, I think with kettlebell swings or anything like that, getting rid of the kettlebell I think is always a better option or slamming a ball, and then regrouping, composing, and then doing that same type of movement again. So what I'm searching for is that I feel like, I think of something like even like a windmill, which is actually not rotational power,

as much as it is like rotational strength, right? But I think that that's important that we express that you want to have good rotational strength before you try and express power. Oh, yeah. So you need to really own and control the movement, doing things that like anti-rotational stuff, doing things like like windmills for rotational strength. So you have the ability to control in that plane really well. And then you can do things like medicine belt throws, wood chops, things that are more expressive

to really. Yeah, you need to, oh, you need, so strength contributes to this physical pursuit quite a bit, right? So if you just get stronger, you will increase your power somewhat, no matter what, no matter what you do, if you get stronger, you're going to get a little bit more powerful. Now, obviously, if you focus on power you're gonna get a little bit more powerful. Now obviously if you focus on power, you'll get a lot more powerful because power is a skill like anything else, but strength is the prerequisite, right? So don't go and do these fast rotation exercises.

If you're not strong in rotation because you're asking for trouble, because when you apply speed, the risk goes through the roof in terms of adding nitrous, you know, to the engine. It's something that you, you know, you have to really prepare the infrastructure to handle it. And so I think that's where misconception happens because it is like a lot of the exercises people think of are strength exercises. Like if I'm on a cable and I'm doing a trunk rotation, I'm, you know, the best form of that typically is to use it. So you do add the anti-rotational elements to that too,

so I can slow down, be controlled. But when I'm just focusing on power, I'm ripping it. And then I'm composing myself again, then I'm ripping it again. I love you use that example because I was actually just taking my client through that exact exercise. And one of the things I was trying to get her in her stand,

because the client sees you do that movement and they just kind of look at the explosive part, but I'm trying to get her to accelerate correctly, right? And then stop in a controlled fashion and do that all with her core before we go back to their direction. And clients, they see the arms and that's what they're focused on like,

oh, your arms go here and then you stop here. And you can see her shoulders kind of shrug and move out of position because she's not locking it in from her core and stabilizing there first before she goes. Well, when you have a cable or a band, you have to bring it back, right? When you have a ball, you can let go. So that's why the control is important when you have

something you're still holding on to because, if you just let go and let it swing you back, you're gonna probably hurt yourself. By the way, if you just let go and let it swing you back, you're going to probably hurt yourself. By the way, if you are going to use something that's anchored, I prefer a band for explosive rotational movements, way over a cable. With a cable, you got the weight stack that's flopping all over the place. With a band. Yeah, with a band, you explode and then you can bring it back quickly and it's not as dangerous.

Some of my favorite ones and this is where you get all the Instagram type of exercises that actually make sense for this because you'll get stuff like, you know, tire strikes you can do with, you know, a sledgehammer where you're getting really good rotational explosive strength with your upper body and shoulders and I can rotate slam it with all my might. And then basically, you know, I have to like redo that whole process all over again. I'm not dependent on bringing it back all under control. I can really exert a lot of force. Both you take me through this and okay,

let's pretend like we have a client who, who, at this person's asking for rotational power, but we're gonna assume that they have limited rotational strength. So give me, you know, one or two exercises, I would get them first to get the rotational strength first and the control and then one or two exercises that I like that you guys like to teach people to the for the power espouse. Oh man, you can keep it simple and do your regular cable chop to get strong and then eventually when they're stable and feel good

Then you progress to a band and you go fast or a ball. So that's very simple. You can get more complex You could start with windmills and cable chops and then eventually move to a ball where you're throwing it. It's really about the progression, right? One is controlled. The other one is fast. Get good at the control first. Good with the rotation of the strength first, then move to the speed.

Yeah. And just some other examples like a kettlebell halo or even do it with a dumbbell. And you can go through that pattern of rotation with your shoulders that a lot of times people just neglect and so just getting your body familiar with a lot of the function of your joints with your shoulders, with your hips and just getting that rotational movement established

and under control, you know, that's another good one. And then where does something like Indian clubs and Mayspells fit into this whole thing? Right. So once you get good fluid movement and rotation out of the shoulders, that's where we start loading that same swinging rotation. And so now I can add that and I would start like very slowly with one to two pound type of Indian clubs and then take that through those same rotational movements.

So you get your internal external rotation. You go through that full range of motion. And then further on, you can actually get a little more aggressive and fast with those swings too so that can become more of a type of a power move. Now would you put those kind of at the peak of the progression here? So I'm going to get my basic control and strength first, then I'm going to do some band and cable type movements, and then I've got really good control, I've got really good strength and mobility.

Now I'm ready to do something more dynamic and a little more fluid with something like a macebell or like any kind of... So in a club and then go to mace bell. I think mace bell is, you know, a bit of a jump skill wise from that, but I think it's super valuable. And something to consider that you can get bullet proof, you can get strong in rotational elements of, of, you know, your shoulders as well.

Next question is from you gut to v cut. Can lack of scapular retraction prevent you from squatting deep? All right, okay, so if you're just gonna squat on your own without any weight, maybe not. But if you put a load on yourself, then yeah, you definitely need scapular retraction is your ability to pull your shoulders back and hold them there. And so when you've got that scapular retraction going on, and then you squat oftentimes, the upper back wants to compensate and kind of roll forward. By the way, when one part of the spine compensates,

oftentimes you see it affect other parts of the spine. So I know I said definitely with load, maybe not so much with load, but even without load, if parts of your back are starting to round, you'll start to see in the lower back as well. Having that neutral spine all the way up and all the way down, really, well, if you're not addressing it,

it's gonna turn into promoting it. Yeah, and so that's something you gotta consider too. And it's very protective to have your shoulders retracted there, especially when you have load. So it has that muscle contraction there of protecting your spine down and plus two, then you get that forward leaning effect too. If you're not addressing that as well, or your shoulders are always already on their way forward, which then is promoting your body to go in that direction

and something you're fighting to sit back on. This was actually a massive cue that made a huge difference in my squat technique. I did not think it was going to be that big of a- Did you all focused on hips, Evan? Yeah, yeah, this actually helped me out a lot. And now looking at it and unpacking probably why, well, one, we all kind of have forward shoulder. But it does a couple other things really well too.

So you guys have seen me do that, little posture check where I have people stand and then your hands go up before, then you retract the shoulders rotate, come down by your side. And I used to tell clients, like, okay, this is the anatomical position. This is ideally where you wanna be.

And then I would go, fill your stomach. And what happens when you put yourself in the anatomical position, like the most ideal stacking all the joints, in order to hold the spine in that position, what happens? The core draws in. The core draws in and braces really well, just to hold you in good posture.

And so what I found was when I would get out of the bar and I'd really wedge the bar down and focus on retracting and depressing the shows and locking in, it automatically drew my core in, elevated my chest up, which are important cues for a lot of people when it's coming out of the hole in a squat. You get down in a squat and at the very bottom, it's heavy and this is where the breakdown happens

a lot of time and if you already have excessive forward shoulders and your core is not tensed and first thing you'll see is someone to round and fall forward a little bit. We tend to forget that our whole body's connected, right? So we think one thing doesn't affect another thing. Here's a test you could do at home, right? Go try to open a really, really tight jar

and notice how every muscle in your body tenses up. So you're trying to do it with your arms with your wrist and fingers. Yeah, it's both arms, but even your jaw. Your face is tensing up, you're squeezing your legs and your glutes and your core because you're getting this kind of full body activation.

By the way, that makes you stronger. You're not gonna be as strong. If I squeeze something as hard as I can, but with my whole body relaxed, I'm not gonna be as strong as when I tense everything up. And this is natural. This is a natural thing that happens. So when one thing is off, if you're not trying to pay attention

on keeping everything else a certain way, it'll automatically cause other things to happen in the rest of your body. And by the way, when you go to fatigue or when you're training under heavy load, your body's gonna revert to what it does. And that is turn everything on, everything's connected, everything gets affected.

I've been trying to think of an analogy for that, for a while, but in terms of like, if you think of the squat rack, and in terms of it being bolted down versus it being free standing, and you're putting pressure on it, it's much stronger when it's anchored. And so that whole effect of you tensing your whole body,

you're able to anchor yourself and ground yourself so you're in a sense, a movable, which makes you strong. Yeah, and remember, you're CNS, it fires signals in specific areas, like to the bicep or to the shoulder, but it can't fire it as loudly as when it turns everything on. If it turns everything on, you get a louder signal

to in one area, that's why when you're trying to open the tight jar, everything tenses up because your CNS is like reserves, we need strength, we need power. Well, and back to their specific question of like, can this affect me squatting deep? Like what will happen, you know, when you get into a really deep squat,

it's pretty important unless you're doing a very low, low bar squat for the chest to be upright for the barpath. Even with the low bar. Yeah, I need to have a high chest. Right, right. So even, but it's a little, it's less than if you have a high bar, right? Because it's the barpath, if you are, if you're coming forward and you have a hard time retracting and depressing the shoulders and you're roll forward and you get down that

squat, by the time you break 90, that bar path is starting to go over the knees. Then you're going to feel the stress and the knees and it's going to feel limiting. You won't be able to get asked to grasp. Absolutely, the ability to retract, depress the shoulders, keep the chest high, the core tight, will make a big difference in your squat depth. Next question is from Coral Fit 6. As a new trainer, I'm struggling with getting my clients to express how the workout is affecting them. I usually get only short answers like good.

I try to get them to elaborate, but it seems like they don't know how, any suggestions. Yeah, you got to get specific what you're asking. So you're good. What are your fitness goals? I want to get in better shape, right? All right, you know, well, okay, what does that mean? A couple of things you could do. One is ask, how do you mean?

It's actually more effective than saying, what do you mean? So if someone says, how are your workouts affecting? Are they good? And you look at them and go, how do you mean? Sometimes I'll get them to elaborate, but oftentimes you need to be specific. Hey, how's your sleep? How's your energy? You're noticing any differences in your energy? Is your appetite any different? Are you noticing changes to your libido? Now that you're stronger in the gym, do you feel more stable outside of the gym when you're doing things at home? And oftentimes when you do that, people will go, oh yeah, how do your joints feel? On a level of one to ten, where's your soreness? Would you say you're a ten, you're really sore? Would you say you're not sore at all?

Like giving them the one to 10 thing for specific things, I think is a really cool way. Because I understand where this question is coming from because clients don't, they don't know how to articulate that. This is completely foreign to them. And it is really on you to ask a lot of the right questions. If you ask a vague question to somebody that knows very little about your field, of course you're going to get a vague response. Here's your best example. It happens to every trainer who does a goal of the right questions if you ask a vague question to somebody that knows very little about your field

Of course, you're going to get a vague response. Here's your best example. It happens to every trainer who does a goal assessment Right, you'll ask a person potential client and you'll say do you have any areas of pain on your body? No Okay, if you leave it at that there's your answer. Oh do this. They'll say no on the workout. Oh, yeah No, they say no go down the body. Okay, do you have any issues with neck pain or stiffness? Do you, what about your shoulders? What about your upper, and here's what's gonna happen? You'll go down, but like, what about your shoulders? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes my left shoulder kind of bothers me.

Okay, left shoulder. What about your low back? Your low back ever get tight? Well, yeah, if I sit down for longer than 30 minutes, okay, low back tightness. What about your knees? And then next thing you know, it was like five different. Yeah, it's okay.

I always have those conversations in the workouts, you know, in the rest periods, because I would, I would observe. And if I had to in the beginning, I would write notes. But, you know, you'd see what the compensations happened or the shoulders are, you know, if they're holding a wrist or, you know, if they, they, they, they, they, wins a bit more than, the normal or like, you know, they're breathing excessively, you know, and so those are the types of things that pay attention to and see, you know, how I can address those by them bringing them up to their attention, then also like revisiting that later on.

No, that's a great time to do that. And that's where those, you know, you have a client, you know, doing something as basic as a tricep push down on the cables and you're asking them, like, you know, where do you feel that? And not what muscle don't ask them that because they don't know what to do. You know what they say?

So where do you feel it? My core. Yeah, that's why you need to ask those questions. You know, where do you feel it? You know, where do you feel it, or even more specific? Where do you feel it at the bottom of the movement? Where do you feel it at the top of the movement? Do you feel anything in your shoulders when you do it?

Do you notice anything in your core where you do it? Do you notice anything in your core where you do it? Do you feel your chest, you're asking all of you squeeze your chest right now? Do you feel that? And so you're asking all these very specific questions to the movement they're performing at and you're using layman's terms, okay? You're not using all the things that you learned

in your service. If you listen to your litusumist or see it, yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know, it's funny because, but you know, here's the deal. Like, people are not aware of the benefits. This is true. The average person really isn't fully aware

of the benefits of exercise and nutrition. In other words, they're not even aware that they're improving unless it's weight loss, right? So if you ask someone, how's your workout going? Oh, I lost 10 pounds, they know that. But if you say, hey, how's your workout going? Oh, I lost 10 pounds, they know that. But if you say, hey, how's your workout's going? And they're getting better sleep, their skin looks better, they have more energy.

They might not say, I don't know, I haven't lost any weight. I don't know how my workouts are going. People are literally not aware about all of these benefits because we've attached weight to it to exercise. That's it, that's the only thing that's important. I haven't attached anything else. But then when you get to specifics, I used to love doing this, like, you know, hey, how's your workout's going? Oh, it's okay, That's the only thing that's important. I haven't attached anything else. But then when you get to specifics, I used to love doing

this. Like, you know, hey, how's your workout going? Oh, it's okay. I think I only lost the pound. Well, you have a, how's your energy and those things in the back? You know, now that you say it, man, I feel way better. It's like, you have to reveal this to people because they don't understand that. That's such an important point. We talk, because we talk on the show all the time about that's a, a major part of being a really good coach is actually getting these clients to get away from the, the mere and the scale. Like, that's a major part of being a really good coach is actually getting these clients to get away from the, the mere and the scale. Like that's their, their two ways right now of measuring their success.

That's the only two ways. It is. And, and they, and they always think that way. And you're trying to get them to stop thinking that way and really make, because that's what, you getting them to stop thinking about the scale and the way they look, no matter how much they say that, that's all they care about is What's going to really determine whether you keep these people going forever? Because the scale and the weight thing that that will go up and down and change and that will make them motivated and not motivated And if you're if you're relying on that

Motivation to keep them in the gym. They'll fail But if you learn as a coach To as they're going through this process, start connecting it to their relationships, their energy, their attitude, their sleep, their libido, all these other things. If you can learn to help them make the connection that, oh wow, and here's a cool thing about it being a coach of a train that I'll tell you, here's the answer to the test.

Guess what, when they're training and they're eating correctly, it improves all those fucking things. So it's kind of a rhetorical question, but you're helping them, you're getting them to say that. That's what's important. You need to get them to keep saying that, like, oh yeah, you know what, you're right. The sense that I actually increased my protein

and increased my fiber, I do notice that my stomach feels better. And I do notice I'm sleeping. You know what I'm saying? You need to, as a coach, being very specific and getting them to say those things to make that kind of... Yeah, remember what you say can be true or false.

What your client says is always true. So I could tell them all day long, exercise is going to give you so much energy and it's going to make you feel better, whatever. I'm going to be like, okay, that's fine, but I don't know, is that true or not. But if I say, hey, how's your energy? And they go, my energy is better. Boom, now it's true. Hey, how's your libido? You know, now that you said. Boom, now it's true. Hey, how's your libido?

You know another, you said that, man, my wife and I have had a great time since I started working out. Boom, now it's true. Very important you do this as a coach. Look, if you like our information, you'll love MindPumpFree.com. Head over there, check out all of our free guides on helping you build muscle,

burn body fat, improve your mobility. We even have guides for personal trainers. Again, it's Mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Salon, Adam at Mind Pump Adder. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

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