Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 155: The Truth About Steroids

Episode Date: September 25, 2015

Are steroids a guaranteed ticket to more strength and muscle gains? Are they the key to getting a body like your favorite bodybuilder or physique competitor? Will they improve your performance so that you can run with the big boys? Sal, Adam and Justin reveal what steroids can and cannot do in this candid episode. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Learn more about Mind Pump at www.mindpumpradio.com

Well, you get to the way how he was born. Whoa, almost made. You know, Sam is over. All right, let's roll. That's so good. What are we doing, Doug? We're doing a commercial. Oh, fuck it, man.

Why do we have to do commercials? I was just ready to jam in to, you know, the episode, let's jam. I know this is way too structured for you guys, but we do need to do a commercial for t-shirts because we have them on sale. People are asking about them. They want them, yet we need to let them know about them.

You see, I'm already bored. I just got bored right now. Right. I totally zoned out. Are we? Let's talk about biceps. What's the best exercise for biceps? We have women's t-shirts now.

This is exciting. You should be excited about this. Okay. Why the fuck you look at me like that? Because you're always talking about women's clothes. You just look at me. Hey, I just, you know, he just looked at me like that? Because you're always kind of wearing women's clothes. You just looked at me like this. Look, I should be extra excited about the fucking women's t-shirts.

You do have big breath. Yes. So I can see you in one of those Likertanks. All right. All right, so we have women's tanks. We have women's tanks. We have a women's V-neck. OK.

We have a men's V-neck. OK. And we have men's and really unisex raw truth shirts. Oh, okay. And in one tri blend, a men's tank top. All this is available on the MindPumpRadio.com page. How long are you running this for? Until Sunday. That's only a couple days, done. That's the 27. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's time to get up and go and get these. Absolutely. You know, I like the most about these T-shirts? They're sexy.

You know what I mean? Have you looked at one kill? It's just hot. Yeah, I agree. So I think you should get one if you're listening right now. Well, you got to, the main thing is you got to hurry up and get one because what always happens to us is Doug shuts the sale down and then also we can just let you all these comments like, oh, I like that.

I want it. Doug hook me up. They're limited. That's what no Doug hook me up. They're limited. No more Doug hookups. They're limited now We're never mind pump radio comm turn the soft go on there right now Just do it if you want to pump your body and expand your mind There's only one place to go Might, I might up with your hosts Salda Stefano Adam Sch Schaefer, and Justin Andrews.

The walk-ons, they fucking throw you right in the mix, right? And I'm doing hitting drills against like your starting fucking four-backs. Bro, I fucking, I would go all out because I had to prove something. And so they'd get pissed because I actually hit hard. And so they would double team, and so they get a pulling guard guard and the fucking full back to kind of blast me out of the hole to try and get the running back through. And dude, how did you get fucking rocked, dude? My head was ranging and shit and I get right back up. And then I'd run right at him and then just

try and, you know, tackle and get, you know, as far up as I could. And then they would just start chopping my legs, doing dirty shit, fucking, you know, I gouge me under the pile. It was fucking dirty, dude. And they're huge. I was not, like, dude, I was like, at my biggest, I was like, 245, 250, right? I'm going against guys that are three fucking 54,

like, you know, fast twitch muscle. Fuck you, you know, like, what are you gonna do against that? I'll go, it's different level. I'll go deadlift. I'll buy myself. So different level. And they're all fastest fuck. No, cool.

These fucking, these linemen, bro, we're running like four, four, you know, four, five. That's what always, that's what always, I'm running like a four, eight dude. It always impresses me when you see these guys that are that big that are that are fast Yeah, you remember when we played against all the fuck all the pro Yeah, I was just I part of me just wanted to sit back and watch them play instead of playing against it I was so fascinated with these 300 pound men that were like three steps and they were all the way across the basketball court

You know, yeah, like it was just crazy. It was insane to see. Effortless. That's where we always talk about like, everyone talks about steroids and this and that. It's like, dude, at the professional level, above steroids, by far, you have to have the genetic gift first. Oh, you know what I'm saying? Come on man. Jesus, everything.

Yeah, and it's too bad because so many kids that are growing up that are coming up in the sport, they think like, fuck, if I need to get to the professional level, I need to take that next step and I need to take juice or I need to do this and it's like, dude, if you don't have the genetic gift already, you're not unportual for you, you're not gonna fall. Here's the thing, fall suitably.

All these pros, all these pros were dominating their friends when they were kids, too. Like they were the big kid that was crazy. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of that dude that you went and hung out with in Vegas. What's his name? Oh, Joe.

Yeah. He says he's natural. He is too. And he used to play, didn't he play pro football for a little bit? Yeah, couple of years he played for Atlanta Falcons and somebody else. And the guy is strong as shit.

If you look at his Instagram, he's squatting like six plates, like the way I squat three plates. Like ridiculous, right? Yeah. Massive, muscular, strong as shit if you look at his Instagram squatting like six plates like it's like the way I squat three play like ridiculous, right? Yeah Massive muscular strong as shit fast. He's probably never like the thing is about guys like that like they start working out Like they never stopped working. Oh, yeah, that's exactly right. He posted a picture That's why he's lifting that I'm wait. I went through his Instagram, right? And there's a picture of him when he was 15 flexing. Yeah, and it's how I look when I get really lead. 15. So I'm like, yeah, that's that's definitely.

Yeah. Do you know, do you know, do you know, do you know my buddy Jason Sinatra? Do you know Jason? Yeah. I know. I know that. Dude, dude, so he, so he went to the all natural. So he made it to the all natural and he started off. So he started off in the NPC when I started in the NPC and I remember when we were going to shows and he's like, you know, he looks crazy good, right? And he started in mince-viseek and he was just getting told too big because he is kind of big for mince-viseek for sure And not to mention though that he's all natural. He's always been drug-free his entire life and I'm like, dude, you're a freaking animal. First of all, you need to go to bodybuilding.

And then if you were to throw some gear on that body, you'd be a monster. But he's, I mean, if you look at him, I know most people probably look at him and think he is, but he's a hundred percent on the actual. But if you look at his, I've seen pictures of him and his brother when he's like 15 years old.

Yeah. Bro, he looks better than me on my best day on stage, bro. Right now, dude, I'm like, this is crazy. Guys like that are just, they have had it, you know? And it's not to say they haven't worked for, I mean, he's worked his ass off to be. No, no, no. When you get to the top level,

what you have is extreme talent plus hard work. Because extreme talent will only get you so far, but then to get to the top, now you're competing against guys who are super talented. They all have the same hand. And yeah, so they all got like the two aces. You know what I mean?

Now everybody's playing with that same hand, but now you gotta get something else in the mix. Now you gotta work your ass off. And then the extra 5% coming from gear. That's a great, now it's like, everybody Craig. Craig is saying my two of you are a little his picture when he was, I mean his neck was like the size of my

fucking leg. Yeah, it's kind of my leg, it's dude, it's crazy. Just, you like, I don't know what's going on. He's like, oh, it's crazy. Yeah. Just, you know, they were those kids that were like that when they were kids. So he said they were just dominating everybody else. And they had it. But you know what, it's something that needs to be talked about. I feel like more often because a lot of these kids

that are inspiring to be like all these athletes, they see that. And either one, they assume that, oh, it must be juice whether they're doing that or two, they think they can work out as hard as they are, they do and they're going to look like that. That's the problem with some of those programs. Dude, if you took Phil Heath and you took him off the gear, he would still look crazy. Oh, yeah.

You look him in person natural. He'd still look amazing. Kai Green competed for a long time natural and he was a very muscular dude. Now obviously he's a much bigger guy now, but he was always impressive looking when he even when he competed naturally. Ronnie Coleman competed naturally for a long time. And then there was like a switch one year,

and that's I think the year he won the Olympia. And he was like, we'll think he gained like 40 pounds. Yes, there's a difference, but off everything, the guy is more muscular and stronger than 99.9% of the population, including people who more muscular and stronger than 99.9% of the population, including people who take antibiotics. So it's just the genes make a huge difference. You said it really well one time.

You should repeat it. I think you listed the five things between genetics, nutrition, gear, all the things like that. And then you put them in order. Yeah, genes, nutrition, your workout routine. And then last comes, you know, the steroids. The enhancements. Yeah, I mean, if you've got a person that has got superior jeans in terms of how they respond to weights,

and you have someone who has average jeans, and you put the average person on a lot of drugs, and you keep the other guy natural. The natural guy who's got superior, you know, that 0.1% of the world's population in jeans is going to be superior. You're not going to be able to make up the difference if you're average to somebody who's got superior jeans. It's just a lot more. Well, I saw that too, even just playing it with athletics, like, you know, like somebody I knew that was on steroids who all of a sudden

would start working out with like the, you know, the different groups, the guys that were lifting more weights. And we would all branch off based on like how much weight you could push. And, you know, and this kid was coming up and he was getting bigger and yoked. And, you know, he was always that guy that was on the sidelines and you could tell that like he really, really wanted to play, but you know, so he's running, he's going to Mexico and he's getting his stack and all of a sudden he's working out with us and he's trying like insanely hard in practice, right? He's that kid that like everybody just gets annoyed with, right?

He keeps going like 110% every single rep and then just like hits you and you just shake him off like dude. Come on. I'll kill you. He didn't have it. He didn't have it. He didn't have it, but he tried so damn hard. And he was running as many Mexican steroids as possible, I guarantee it.

Yeah, that's. And guess what? I'm sorry. It's just the hand you're dealt with. You can't do anything with it. Look, when you, it's like if you go, if you're a wrestler, a fighter, and you've got guys who are juiced up within their weight category, a 200 pound guy that's juiced up versus a 200 pound guy that's natural, the natural 200 pound guy. He's in a way better

situation. He's stronger, faster. He's got more stamina. That's what I think that's what people, it's not inflated. It annoys me when people get all like, when they see fighters, like, you know, come out with they get the steroids scanned or what are like so and so got caught with whatever, you know, and he's, and he's a MMA fighter. I'm like, dude, so silly. He has to fight in a weight class. So all that extra muscle mass putting on him, he's just taking himself from normally being a 180 guy. Now he's a 205 guy. And now he's fighting like you said, 205 guys that are naturally 205 when they're like, then his bone is skeletal structure, his ligaments, his joints were all built for 205 pounds.

The other guy has got artificial muscle put on him that his body was not, his structure was not built for. Who do you think is gonna have the advantage? Right, especially in weight class, sports with weight classes, you're looking at the reason why they would use antibiotics there was just for recovery. So they could train hard and not injure themselves and recover faster. But in the old days like Pride, when they didn't have weight classes in Pride, you get a big guy versus a small guy. Size would help, and so you'd get a lot of these guys would juice up. Plus, the marketing aspect of it.

You know, vendorly Silva at Pride looked very different than vendorly Silva in the UFC. It was a killer. In Pride, the dude was like 20 pounds bigger. of it, you know, vendorly Silva at Pride looked very different than vendorly Silva in the UFC. It was a killer. In Pride, the dude was like 20 pounds bigger. But a lot of that was, you know, you got marketing and you know, you look like a cartoon character. And in some sports weight does make a difference like football and stuff like that. But you know, at the end of the day, it's about the genes.

Look, us in the room, okay, the three of us on this podcast, if you put us against the average population in terms of genes for building muscle, we are, we've got better genes than most people do for building muscle, but we don't, we are not the point zero zero one percent. No, no, we're not the elite. Right. No, we're not the elite. Like those guys are, and I've met in my entire life, I've, aside from actual, you know, like celebrities, I've met, I can maybe say one guy like that. There was one trainer that worked for me years ago and the dude ate shit. The guy did not know how to work out and I'm like studying nutrition, supplements,

and we would go work out. So irritating, you watch him do like a couple things and they're lightly working with. Dude, this guy would do, he had 18 in charms, just just like whatever and he would do skull crushers and I'm not bullshitting you we'd get the curl bar he put two 45s on each side and he do skull crushers like perfect form and I remember like looking at like what the f and back then I'm thinking like you've got to be on a shitload of sir but the guy could barely afford food he was a poor dude didn't make a lot

of money he would get the 99 cent cheeseburger from McDonald's that That would be his lunch. And I remember looking like, God, like, how is this even possible? I mean, I understand it now. But I had a trainer that worked for me and he worked the same time you did. You remember him? Like that was like that. Had those genetics and he was eating Taco Bell and shit like that. He you'd see him train. He was all like his intensity was so weak sauce when he worked out and stuff. And he just shoulders, arms, just genetic freak, man. I know you're talking about that. Yeah, did you just look, then get on the basketball court

and run up and down the basketball court with all of us. No problem with just always just shredding the jacked. And he was older than all of us. He was like 30 something years old when we were on our early 20s. Just, I mean, some people have that genetic gift and people don't realize that I think, and it's unfortunate because you see all the shit that's on Instagram and this and that. And you see these kids that think that this it's unfortunate because you see all the shit that's on Instagram

and this and that, and you see these kids that think that this is what they have to do and they'll look like that, and it's like, you know, when you look at a picture of all three of us, when we were between 18 and 20 years old, I mean, it gives you a real indicator of where our genetics are, you know, in comparison to someone else,

and when you look at those guys, look at pictures of them, when they were, when testosterone first really started hitting their bodies, somewhere between 18 to 20 years old, look at, look at pictures of them. When they were when testosterone first really started hitting their bodies somewhere between 18 to 20 years old, look at look at what they look like already. Yeah. You know, what do they look like already? If they had, if they looked like a bean pull and didn't have any muscle on them whatsoever at that age, well, then they weren't probably the genetic gift. But more likely, they already were the kids that were pretty muscular and naturally already. And we all had that when you were in high school. I remember the kids now. And you know,

it's crazy. You know, we talk about genetics number one, but then you talk about nutrition and continue working out number two and three. Like, you know, I've got buddies that I went to high school with that were like the star running back, quarterback, and they just had that awesome physique that all the chicks love and some of that were my kids.

And now they look sloppy as shit later in life. Because they're diets horrible. Yeah, because they've just poisoned their body for the next five days. That's another tail tail sign. And you see somebody go from like, you know, God, you're so huge. And then they just like turn into mush, you know, and they're just like a different, totally different person. And you're like, dude, there's no way you're going to go into that extreme

of a physical change unless you're artificially, you know, enhancing yourself. It is. And I'll tell you, there's, you know, genes are interesting. I'll tell you what, like, I'll use myself as an example. In terms of strength, I'm, if I compare, if I compete myself, or compare myself against guys who have been working out as long as I have,

I'm actually pretty average, you know, on most of my, all my lifts, except for one. There's only one lift I have that for whatever reason, my jeans favor this particular lift, and it's the deadlift. And I know it's my jeans. I did lift at 400 pounds when I was 17 years old. I could pull 400 pounds off the floor. That's, that's a jeans. That's good you said that though, because it's just like, you look at, you're almost in three times your body weight, right? And that's not normal. No, no, no, and so that's the one lift for whatever reason.

For me, my jeans favor, it's not world class, it's good, it's really good, but it's not like crazy world class. But that's the one lift. Now, if you put me on the bench press, you put me on a squat, I'm gonna be right around, probably other guys who've been working out as long as I have, I'm not gonna like blow anybody away.

But the dead lift for whatever reason, and that's my jeans. It's just the way it is. And some of us have those lifts. And if you were to look at all your lifts, there's that one lift that you could typically do a lot more. Well, it comes down to physics, right? I mean, it's the way our levers are, our levers are right.

You know, that's pulling a deadlift or squatting or bench pressing. It's all about levers and how long your limbs are or the ratio of your hips to your legs and things like that that make it more efficient. And like you said, I am the same way too. I'm built to pull something off the floor. The first time I ever ripped deadlifts, same thing too.

Like I was already hitting three, 400 pounds within the first couple of months of lifting it. Where most guys spend half their life trying to get up to that weight. And it's not because I train extra hard in that area. It's just I was gifted there. Now put me under a squat rack and it's like, I'm celebrating like 10 pounds of gaining victory.

It's like, yes, I've got a little bit more, a little bit more same thing with bench press. It's taking me years. I mean, I remember I was a kid who was in his 20s and still didn't have the big 45 pound plates on there, man. I couldn't even bench press that until I was in my mid 20s. Like, it's taken everything I got just to get where I'm at. And if you were to look at my the size of me and then my, my bench press now, like most people, it's not impressive, you know, it's not that impressive at all, but I've worked fucking really hard just to get it to there. So everybody is,

you know, genetically different. I think with that all being said, the key is you got to compete against yourself. This is an endeavor, this is what I love about resistance training so much is that you don't really compare, you don't have to compare it yourself against anyone what your previous best, what you did before. And anybody has the potential to look impressive to the average person and to have a strength that is

Impressive compared to the average person most people have that capacity So that's when you have the hard work nutrition being smart about your training that you could do real well But if you're gonna compare yourself against you know some of the freaks of Instagram or bodybuilding or whatever Yeah, that's a losing battle It's a losing battle. You're gonna be depressed. I'm just gonna tell you right look You know, I love science. I love to read about science. I'm not gonna compare myself to Stephen Hawking's You know and if I if I tried my absolute hardest. Yeah, I would still compare myself to you know As someone who's with that kind of brilliance and it's just it's just the way it is

And that's those are the things we have to accept. So when you, if you're considering using anabolic steroids because you want to look like some of these freaks, you're not going to. Unless you're ridiculously impressive naturally, you can take all the drugs in the world, you're just, you're not going to. And then the shitty part, here's the depressing part.

Eventually, you're gonna have to go off that shit. And then what are you gonna do? Now you get to deal with getting weaker and smaller. Yeah, you don't think about that. Yeah, and that's psychologically that sucks. Oh, that is the... Nobody wants to do that. That's the most depressing part about it.

That eventually coming that way, which is also why I think where people get set up where they end up wanting to do that for the rest of their lives because of that. Because they know what that feels like when they have it, when they don't have it, and it's so depressing to see how much they drop in it. That's the thing, right? Because then if they've never pressed themselves to their optimal potential, naturally, you know, the assumption in your head is always going to be, well, I need this. Yeah. I need this to get to that pinnacle, you know, whereas, I mean, if you just hold out,

if you hold out and you just, you press your own genetic potential as far as you can go, you know, whereas, I mean, if you just hold out, if you hold out and you just, you press your own genetic potential as far as you can go, you know, and then say, you know, you wanna compete and you wanna get super crazy, whatever, you're gonna do what you're gonna do because obviously there's, it's infiltrated sports, we know that, you know, at certain high, high levels. But, you know, just challenge yourself personally, you know, like make sure you just

keep that about your own personal drive and efforts and, you know, just see how far you can go. Well, here's the other thing too, you know, in the past, you know, I've talked about this before, you know, in my, especially in my early 20s, that was, those were the days where design, what we know now are designer steroids, but they would call them pro-hormones back then. They were basically chemicals that were two, three molecules away from illegal steroids, but they weren't classified as such because they were some obscure chemical, but they had the same effects. They were available over the counter, and I would use them because they were effective and because they were pro-hormones, they weren't steroids, although now we know they are. And here's what happened. When I would use those, it would prevent me from maximizing my body's ability to progress because it was easier when I was on them.

So I'd take them and then boom, I'd get stronger and build muscle. And I wouldn't pay attention as much to the intricacies of my workouts and my nutrition. Now fast forward now, I haven't touched anything like that for a long time. I'm stronger in most cases and I look more impressive now than I did back then. Why? Because I've learned how to maximize my natural ability

and because I have to. I don't have something that I can take and go on a 30 day or 60 day cycle of something and I know I'm gonna gain 10 pounds of muscle. I know I'm gonna gain 30 pounds of my lifts or whatever. It gonna gain 30 pounds on my, you know, my lifts or whatever. It's like I have to like, work inch my way up and figure out my body and really maximize my,

and my workouts now, my new trip now, of course, if I were to take them today, I would surpass even, you know, where I'm at now, but the bottom line is I know my body better now. Well, the great part about that is that, you know, having to go through all those pains and the slow process of it,

like you really unlock other methods that you wouldn't even have entertained because you're already getting all this artificial help from just going straight to the injections or whatever it is, whereas we really have to think this shit out every day, okay, how am I going to maximize this lift? How, you know, how am I going to get to that level? Let's try this.

Let's come back to this. Let's get more rest. Let's, you know, alternate. And really, this is what all this refining over time has created certain programs that we obviously talk about. But the thing is, it's a day-to-day process. And it takes a long time to get there because you have to understand things about your body,

understand how nutrition plays a pivotal role, not just with energy, not just with fat loss, or whatever it is, but like performance, overall just keeping you healthy. And then when you can keep your body healthy, how much more you can improve because of that. Internally, your whole system's gonna fire the way you want it to.

You're not fighting things. You get away with a little bit more of doing things the wrong way. Oh, you get away with a lot more. That's such a great point that Justin says right now because really all the Anabalc steroids does is it keeps you anabalog 24-7. When you really think about the, the Anabolic steroids does is it keeps you anabolic 24, seven. When you really think about the number one factor

that it does for you, right? It's tipping the balance in that direction. Exactly. It tips it in, it could be two in the morning and it's your anabolic, you know, where right now, when you're, when you're running things all natural, you've got to find ways to, you're trying to create that atmosphere in your body with either food manipulation

or working out certain ways. Trigger sessions, whatever. Exactly. Trigger sessions, whatever. Exactly. Trigger sessions, things like that. You've got to come up with all these different methods to make the body anabolic where when you're running gear, you're anabolic 24-7. There's less effort that has to be put into thinking about how I need to map out this workout, how I need to do this, because, hey, even if I am overtraining a little bit, it's not

a big deal because my body's anabolic time. Even if I get some of this. Right. Your recovery is like way up in comparison to your experience. And even if I eat like shit, you know what I'm saying? A lot of these calories are going to go to building because I'm in a ballic right now. You know, my body is wanting to use those calories. Prioritizing it right away for you.

Exactly. That is the number one thing that I don't think people realize. That's really what it's doing. It's doing that. Where you can create a lot of that anabolic environment in your body. If you know what you're doing far as training wise and as eating and things like that, that's a huge key in factor for people. It's not like, you know, the gear is all sudden this magical thing.

It just keeps it a lot easier. And if like Justin said, if you haven't figured out how to do that with your body naturally, then also not hopping on gear is not the answer, because then you go right back to those same workout or workout or eating patterns without it and your body goes to shit. This is why I asked Dave the other day when Dave was on the show the other day.

And I don't know if he shied away from it because he didn't want to get into controversial stuff like we do or what, but that's one of the number one things that I train a coach and athlete who's gonna compete in like men's physique or what, but that's like one of the number one things that an athlete, when I train a coach and athlete who's gonna compete in like men's physique or whatever, and even bikini. The first thing I get asked is like, you know, what do I take?

You know, because they know, if you're getting into the competing world, you're not an idiot, you know, like everybody, most everybody is on gear, on something, right? Yeah. So that's the first thing I ask me, and especially when they're young, the very first thing I ask back to them is like,

well, first, if you've ever done this before, are you familiar with anything that you're asking me about? And if not, like, I don't even want, I don't even want to tell you to do anything. I want you to, we need to learn your body's potential naturally before you even consider that. So, you know, let me, let me see what I can show you nutritionally and work out wise. And then after that, if you feel like you need to, to enhance your body more, to get you to the next level of people and that's something you're willing to do, then we can talk

about something like that. But for right now, if you don't even know what you should be doing nutritionally and work outwise to maximize your current potential, we're only shooting ourselves in the foot by all of a sudden, throwing you on a bunch of gear or supplements, that you're just... Then we don't know what's really working. Is it the workout plan I set for you? Is it the nutrition plan that I set for you? Or is it the fucking anabolic steroids that I'd prescribe? This is it, this is it.

This is it. Such a great point because if you don't know what your potential is naturally, if you don't know what works, how you can maximize your progress naturally, then it's very, very difficult to judge. Cause I remember when I would take these over the counter, you know, pro hormones or whatever you wanna call them, I would work out and I'd have

great pumps. Every time I'd lift weights, I'd have great pumps. So it was hard for me to judge what was I doing that was really working. What I would end up doing is seeing how much I could possibly work out, which probably was detrimental to my progress. Now that I've trained so long without those types of things now, and I know exactly how to maximize my body, if I were, and I'm not going to, but that I've trained so long without those types of things, now, and I know exactly how to maximize my body. If I were, and I'm not going to, but if I were to go on gear now, I could really take advantage of their effects as I know what my body's capability is without them.

And I think if you look at, you know, bodybuilders and athletes, the guys that stayed natural the longest are the ones that go the farthest when they finally go on when they finally go on here. Oh, for that exact reason, what you just said right there is they figured out, I mean, I remember when I was 22 years old, I let some bodybuilder put me on the most monstrous steroids stack I've ever seen in my life before. And that was the, that was probably one of the stupidest things I ever could do at that young of an age. But at that point in my life, like I had felt like I had been struggling for four or five years of consistently training and not seeing the results I wanted. And even I did, I thought, okay, you know, this is what I needed to get to that next size. And I'll never forget.

Like, I literally put on like five pounds. That was it. Five pounds, which went away as soon as I came off of it. Now, I was a strong little skinny fucker in the gym, I mean, I was pushing weight. I'd never pushed my, and that meant that mentally felt awesome and felt great. But really, the whole reason why that I did it was because I wanted to put this size on. I was a skinny kid and I was insecure about being so skinny.

I wanted to be bigger, I wanted to be bigger. And when I went on all this stuff, it wasn't the answer. And I thought it was. I was like, damn, this is crazy. I've gotten just as many gains before from hopping on a creatine cycle. As I did on this huge thousand dollar freaking steroids cycle,

thinking that it was gonna blow me up. That's the public's perception, and I think that's why it's important that we talk about it from a real perspective is because you can't look at it like that, that's what's gonna make you look like Arnold within a month, right? Well, you know what's not even talked about,

there's genetics for how you, there's genes for how muscular and strong you'll be naturally. There's genes for how you respond to resistance training because you could actually have two guys. One guy with both of them not lifting weights at all, one guy naturally stronger and bigger, the other guy naturally weaker and not a strong. They lift weights and the weaker guy just responds.

He just got the stronger response to the weights and he'll actually surpass the other guy. So there's that and there's genes that affect how well you respond to anabolic steroids. This is a fact. There were pro bodybuilders, I used to read, and these are rumors or whatnot, but you guys know who Kevin LeVroni is

from the 90s, right? People would talk about how the guy would go on a cycle and just boom, 50, 60 pounds of muscle because his jeans Just responded to the steroids. I knew I there was a guy that I worked with years ago I used to own a gym down a palm down a palm desert near Palm Springs There was a guy that I worked out with and worked with that down there Who was a kind of an average guy would lift weights and he you know? We were close to Mexico

So the guy would go down there and he would get on a shit ton of gear. And when I say a shit ton of gear, he was taking between one to two grams of Annabelle. So, which is a high dose for a recreational user. And I'm talking, he would use oral, like anadrol and D-Ball and the strong shit, right? The guy would gain like eight pounds. And nobody would know. You would look at him and nobody would know. Now there was another guy that was with us at the same time

who went on the same shit, the exact same shit, the same workout and everything. And he gained 25 pounds. So it's like, your body also has genes too in terms of how it responds. Absolutely. You don't know how many athletes I've picked up. That's so interesting. That are running tons of gear and I look at them and I'm like, damn bro, like I feel bad for them. I'm like, you're pumping that much shit in your body

and that's the way you look. Your body also has jeans. That sucks. I don't waste. Yeah. What if that sucks, dude? You might want to spend that money on food. Yeah, bro.

There's a lot of other things we should be doing if that's. Listen, you know what's funny? Check this out. Here's something that nobody even thinks about, although I've heard a few people discuss this. When you get to that massive level, when you're a bodybuilder and you're 260 pounds on stage,

you've got good genes for building muscle, good genes for responding to anabolic steroids, but you've also got good genes for being able to eat a shitload of food, digest it, and assimilate it. Because that's also a big role. Like if you had food intolerances or you have gut issues and you're trying to eat a shit ton of food, and you're not gonna be able

to assimilate all that food. Have you seen some of the amounts of food that some of these guys can eat and get away with? That requires jeans for digestion too. Right, well, here's just a whole shitload of things. Utilizing, yeah, transporting it and shitting it all out. Well, that's a great point to why, I mean, when you look at a lot of these guys too,

probably why they have these distended bellies when you look at them because they're having to shut all so much food. And so their stomachs are expanding and distinning from all of it from the food and growth hormone and stuff that's being pumped in there. What was it that changed though is the growth hormone was the factor where we started to get that turtle shell kind of abs. It grows everything. Yeah.

Yeah, so you're in test and in your stomach, everything's growing, right? So and you'd have to have it grow like that. If you're eating 10,000 plus calories a day, you can't have this little bird's stomach getting shuttle in there. You're going to have to expand that. And if you're trying to, if you're a 250 pound to 300 pound, because a lot of these guys are 300 plus pounds in the off season, yeah. And the off season, yeah.

Does it grow your bone structure, too? It does. So when you look at, if you look at guys who've been on growth hormone for a very, very, very long time, their heads look like they're very bonds. Yeah, bubble head after their heads grow. They're, you look at their joints, you'll see their elbows look a little bigger, their hands look a little bigger. You know, their jaw line will start to change.

Their skin changes. It's still, it's talking more like Their nose will grow, their ears will grow. And that's on high, high doses. You know, that's. They're taking 10, I use plus a day. I should. Yeah, whatever, you know, you're taking a lot of stuff. That's what ends up happening.

But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of factors that come into play. But so if you're the average person and you just want to look impressive, the last thing on your list of things that you should do is has anything to do with anabolic hormones at all. That's the last, literally the last, it's under supplements. I'm not bullshitting you, it's the last fucking thing. If you do everything else perfect, I promise you, most of you will say, I don't even wanna do any, I don't wanna have to do all this stuff,

I don't wanna have to inject myself because I look great to begin with. That's where it should be on the priority list. But, you know, as far as like devil's advocate goes, like, you're gonna have to be patient. Oh, come on. You know what I mean? Absolutely.

That's just the thing. Like, I think that's why the antibiotic steroids is something that somebody gravitates too so quickly is because the immediate effect of just feeling stronger, you know, fuels their energy. Of course. Of course. That's also though.

You have to fight that, that urge. You have to, you have to understand that it takes a lot of discipline. It takes a lot of dedication. It takes a lot of time. You know, you know, it definitely does. Wow. You have, you know, your under, you know, steroids as well. That's just something that like, like we're talking about this mental battle, right? That's what you're gonna always have to attribute to, you know, like I need to feel that way in order to get the energy to do this.

Even on steroids, it should be slow and gradual because it's not realistic to throw 30 pounds of muscle in the body and expect to keep it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a good chunk of that looked, the anabolic that put the most weight on you would be your high dose testosterone and your orals, like your, you know, your, your, your gorilla steroids

like anodrol and debil, and a large part of that is water. Yeah. You gain 25 pounds in two months. That's good to know, yeah. And a hurry, a good chance. So inflated. Oh, yeah. It's just a, a shitload of know, yeah. And a hurry. A good time. So inflated. Oh yeah. A sh-

A shitload of it is water. And here's what happens. These guys will go on a shitload of testosterone and anadral whatever. They'll gain 30 pounds in two or three months. Then they'll go off and within a month, they'll lose more than half of it. And they're like, I lost all this muscle.

No, you didn't actually lose that much muscle yet. It takes a little longer to lose muscle. That's water. You just lost a shitload of water. That's why when you go on this stuff. That's why, for example, anodrol, which hardly anyone takes anymore because it's so harsh, but guys would be, they would gain a pound every two days or a pound a day. That ain't fucking muscle. That's water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a bulk muscle can be built that fast. It ain't going to happen.

And that's why I can't see. They think it's muscle too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're filling out all your shirts. Oh, and you're getting the strongest shit because your central nervous system is firing hard and, you know, intracellular fluid does give you more strength in certain cases, but you look at their faces and you can see that they look like puffer fish. Well, you say this about steroids and I say the same thing even about supplements is why I'm so adamant about people, you know, breaking through all, you breaking through all, pushing their body to the natural way with before even supplementation comes, because then when you start adding things

like pre-workout and creatine and all your different fat burners and all these extra supplements that you start purchasing $300 plus worth a month, and yet you're not consistent with your workout, you're not consistent with your diet. Yeah, you're trading something that makes a big difference for something

that makes a time. Exactly, it's like, you know, it's crazy, is if you were to, if you diet. You're trading something that makes a big difference for something that makes a time. Exactly, it's like, you know, it's crazy. If you were to, if you were to, I said that was the one. It's gonna have money on the organic and, you know, yeah, stuff that's gonna, you know, do much better internally. Yeah, and when you, and you look at me and I go, okay, well, tell me what your workout schedule looks like

for the month and you like, okay, I work out these days, I take these days off and sometimes I do this and then I tell them, well, I'm pretty good. I eat this and I'm like, okay, well, let's take your diet from being pretty good to being excellent. Let's add one more day a week into your lifting. I guarantee those two things will show you way more than any supplement ever could. And that way of thinking is just, we're not there. You know, saying people still think that, oh, I am working harder. I am doing these things. Like, no, you don't get it.

What happens with a lot of people that constantly run, you know, gear or cycle gear on and off all throughout the year is when they're looking, and I know, because we've been in the industry for so long, I've been around it, you know, for more than half my life now. And when they're not making gains or they're, you know, not building muscle or whatever,

they don't look at their workouts anymore. Like their workouts tend to stay the same. They look at what they're gonna take. Yes. And with the natural guy, or someone who's really into and with their body, when I'm not progressing anymore, I look at my fucking workout.

I change my workout. I add new techniques. Like, the other day, I did workout. I did some heavy negatives, or I'll use bands, or chains, or, you know, we're using trigger sessions or we're manipulating work or I'm dissecting my squat or dissecting my deadlift and breaking it down in different pieces.

These guys stop doing that. They're just looking at what they're taking and the workouts don't fucking check out. You have no idea how I'm pointing you on with that statement right there because this is my world of bodybuilding and men's physique and of course when you've been doing that, when you're a pro, you're, I'm around to their pros and we share stuff like this.

We talk about it. It's a very open behind the scenes. Everyone talks about all this. And it is so common for me to be sitting with a buddy who, you know, is talking about, you know, show time or what's coming around and so like that. And everyone's sharing like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm getting rid of the first four weeks. I'm going to run this and then I'm going to hit this and then I'm going to hit this. And I'm like, oh, I'm getting right, the first four weeks, I'm gonna run this and then I'm gonna hit this and then I'm gonna hit this.

And I'm like, listen to all this, I'm going like, well, why don't you just, why don't you just cut your calories a little bit right here and why don't you just bump some cardio right here? Why do you need a, why hop on this? You know, why hop on something else? This is gonna cut me right here and then I gotta build back up,

so I'm gonna take this one to get me filled out. And then what you see what happens and this is so common in the industry, brain science. It is all of a sudden, their body's not as responsive as it was after 10 shows later. Now they're on show 12, 14, 15, and they've been running all these different cycles

and their bodies, our bodies are adaptation machines, man. They get adapted to everything. And it's crazy because the last place they look, a lot of times is their workouts. The workouts look the same, you're after you're the same split, the same mix of exercises, the same kind of rep scheme. You know, very rarely will they really periodize the workouts. Like, what was the last time you did a straight strength cycle?

Never, or I haven't, you know, forever. What was the last time you did a straight, you know, a full body routine? And when was the last time you increased or decreased the frequency? It rarely ever happens. It's always about, they get very scientific with the gear they're taking, but very unscientific

with their workouts. Which to me is crazy because I realize, and the crazy thing is I realize it's much lighter. Like I said in my early 20s, I would take these over the counter supplements, and that's what I kind of focused on. My workouts kind of always kind of stayed the same. Now, when I'm stalling or something's not working, the workouts,

man, I get real scientific, and I get great results doing that. Well, I think it's important to do that. There's so much into the workout that's being missed. I think it's important too that we express too, or at least I express that, you know, I was one of these guys. Like, I 100% like, I get it, you know guys. I get it because I was there at one point. At one point in my mind, I thought the same thing too, but that's part of it is that I've been through that.

I've been all the way through that scene all of it and realized that man, there's so many more things that I can do with my workout routine or my nutrition that is going to help my body out 10 times more. Then I don't have to be taking all this crazy amounts of gear that these guys are having to do so I mean one of my favorite things about when we when we created a map is the whole trigger sessions that's brilliant and just goes right into that concept of what makes the biggest difference is to know 24 or seven when you're taking gear you're in that and a ball well that's the whole idea how do we emulate that exactly how do you do that naturally is with these the trigger sessions you know it's not designed to kill you, it's not a whole other workout. It's just to fire that anabolic signal.

Look, I've talked about this in the past. If you want proof and evidence of how low level stimulation, daily stimulation also influences muscle growth, and especially when you combine it with your heavy hard workouts, look at anybody who has a profession where there's repetitive movement, and look at the muscles involved in that movement.

Look at the calves on your male carriers. You ever see a male carrier walking? They all have fucking muscle accounts. Every single, why? Because for 10, 15, 20 years. Oh, you mean that's not part of the interview process? Yeah, let me see your calves. Okay, you get it.

Carpenters in their forearm. Carpenters in their, or, or, you know, plumbers in their forearm. It's just, and that's that low level daily stimulation, not breaking down muscle, but you're just anabolic in that particular area. And that's what the trigger session concept, but here's another thing, we have a lot of people who,

I'd say most of the people who purchased the program are not beginners. Most of them have been working out for a long time. They get on, they switch to phase one. How many times now have we seen in the forum? Oh, yeah. Oh my god. Oh my god. I added 50 pounds to forum? Oh, yeah. People are like, oh my god. Oh my god.

I added 50 pounds to my deadlift, right? I added 20 pounds to my squat. Yeah. In three weeks, guys, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. I know you've heard this before. This is literally what people are saying. Actually, we've posted, if I'm not mistaken,

Doug, you've posted on our site, a lot of some of these people's comments, right? Yeah. You go to the bundle site, you can see. Now, now, why are they making these crazy strength gains? Because number one, the workouts design well, but number two, most of these people have never done a pure strength training cycle.

So they've gone from their split of, you know, chest on Monday back on a always fifth year. Always the same shit. Next thing you know, they switched to more of a strength central nervous system based cycle and their body just boom, all of a sudden they gain, they're hitting PRs in two or three weeks and everybody just blown the fuck away.

By the way, this is one of the reasons why we put phase one towards the beginning because we knew we would shock the fuck out of people right away and then they'd be hooked and they'd say, okay, this program is on to something because yeah, because visible muscle takes longer to build, but when it comes to central nervous system strength, especially if you've never trained

in the way that we prescribe in phase one, you're gonna see some huge gains right off the bat. And that's kinda how the program works, and really it's just a scientific, we've really broke it down and made it scientific as possible, but it doesn't stop there. You have to, at that point, once you've done it and you've followed it, you have to modify

according to how your body's responded and really learn your body. I'm gonna tell you something, listeners, when you know your body, nothing is as effective as that knowledge. Nothing, nothing is as effective as you really being in touch with your body. And I know most of you listening say,

I know my body, you don't fucking know your body. I promise you, I've had lots of advanced people hire me to train them either virtually or in person. And I would say 90% of them don't know their body. Because then I'll tell some like, I had a client recently who's been working out forever is already fit and has been taking protein powders forever. And she's talking about, oh, you know,

just, you know, my whole life have kind of always been a little blood. And like, well, could you, did you ever think about cutting out dairy? Well, no, no, I know my body. I can eat dairy all the time. Well, why don't you try cutting it out three weeks later? Holy shit, I feel amazing.

My stomach is flat. I had no idea. So it's really being in touch with your body, but, you know, approaching it with a very scientific program and then taking it from there, I think, is the best way to do it. I'll be reminded. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Can I just say something that I've been sick and I've been, I was, so last night, I was night-quilled up and I was going through and I hadn't had a chance. I mean, every time we have new reviews, I read them and I kind of read them one time. That's it.

So I went through and I was like reading all of them. And it's, you know, I almost got emotional, I don't know because I'm sick or whatever and I'm feeling that way. But it was really fucking cool actually to go through and read read some of these these comments, man, it was, it was fucking awesome. And a lot of people and, you know, to me, I just I just wanted to say thank you, those those, those you guys that have gotten out there and done that. It does wonders for us because when we get lots of reviews like that, it pushes us up on iTunes, which means we're reaching people all over the world. And that's the best way for us to get out there.

And you've noticed how they've, I mean, they've progressively gotten even more detailed. Like, we're just like, wow, like, you guys really listen and it totally motivates us then to produce more, right? I mean, that's awesome. Yeah, so we appreciate it for those of you subscribing to our channel and rating and reviewing us.

Oh, and by the way, we talked about the program, so I think it's only fair to tell you where you can check it out and read some of those actual testimonials. And these, by the way, are not quote unquote testimonials. These are people on the forum making comments and having conversations. So it's like real deal.

You can actually talk to those people. You can actually talk to them and talk to them on Instagram if you want. Right. That's at mindpumpradio.com. The bundle is still available, which has a lot of our programs available at discounted rate. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. For more information about this show and to get valuable free resources from Sal, Adam, and Justin, visit us at www.Mine Pump Radio.com. Until next time, this is Mind Pump.