Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1823: The Truth About Deadlifts for Muscle Growth, the Ideal Number of Meals to Eat Each Day, Overhand Vs. Underhand Barbell Rows & More

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about the value of deadlifts despite the Internet saying they are not a great hypertrophy movement, the proper barbell row grip,  whether eating 3 bigger meals is better than eating multiple small meals throughout the day, and how to structure a 7-day per week training plan without sacrificing performance and gains. Mind Pump Fit Tip: You can’t get the full picture of something when you just look at individual parts. (2:39) When your wife sleeps in the bathtub to avoid your snoring. (20:51) Mind Pump listeners come through! (27:15) Are you a trophy or a medal person? (30:19) You either win or you learn. (35:55) The ultimate prank?! (44:06) Weening off caffeine with an Organifi product stack. (46:48) The value and benefits of cold therapy post-workout. (49:19) Does your wife steal your Caldera? (53:00) #Quah question #1 - Do you recommend the deadlift despite the Internet saying it is not a great hypertrophy movement? (55:51) #Quah question #2 - What is the proper standing bar row form, overhand or underhand? (1:06:57) #Quah question #3 - What is better, eating 3 bigger meals or multiple small meals throughout the day? (1:10:09) #Quah question #4 - It seems like Mind Pump is anti-rest day. If that’s the case, how could someone structure a 7-day-per-week training plan without sacrificing performance and gains? (1:15:17) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “MINDPUMP” at checkout** Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout** May Promotion: MAPS Starter Bundle and MAPS Spilt 50% off! **Promo code MAYSPECIAL at checkout** Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia Is a Full-Body Resistance Training Routine Better Than Split? - Mind Pump Blog Visit Drink LMNT for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Mind Pump #1822: Wim Hof On How To Control Your Immune System With Breathwork What are the Benefits of Cold Therapy? | Wim Hof Method Visit LivON Labs for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! The #1 Setup Cue For The Barbell And Dumbbell Row Exercise – Mind Pump TV How To Properly Do The Seated Cable Row (IT MATTERS!) - Mind Pump TV The Meal Frequency Myth – Mind Pump Blog Muscle Adaptation vs. Muscle Recovery – Mind Pump Blog The Most Overlooked Muscle Building Principle – Mind Pump Blog MAPS Fitness Products Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Bret Contreras PhD (@bretcontreras1)  Instagram Joe DeFranco (@defrancosgym)  Instagram Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne)  Instagram Wim Hof (@iceman_hof)  Instagram Dr. Andreo Spina (@drandreospina)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pup, right? In today's episode, we answered listeners' questions after a 48-minute introductory conversation. We're talking about fitness or lives, studies and much more. By the way, you can check the show notes for time stamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part.

By the way, if you ever want to ask a question that we can answer on one of these episodes, go to Instagram, at MindPump Media, each Sunday, leave your question under the quaw post, Q, U, A, H post, QUAH post. Put it underneath there. By the way, this episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors, Organify. They make some of the best organic plant-based supplements you'll find anywhere, plant-based protein powders.

They have a green juice, a gold juice, which is great for relaxation, a red juice, which I'm using right now to help get me off caffeine. It's stimulant-free, but it does help with the side effects of going off caffeine. It's got rodeo, and it, which helps. Quite a big, gives me some energy. Lot of good products.

Go check them out. Go to mindpumppartners.com, click on, or GANIFI, and then use the code MindPump, and you'll get 20% off. Another sponsor that brought you this episode is Caldera. They make skin care products that really work. You're talking about botanicals and ingredients that reduce inflammation, find lines, balance out your skin.

I like their serum. By the way, we all use the serum. And we all have different skin types. So Justin's skin is dry, mine's oily, Adam is kind of in the middle, and it balances all of us out. Really good products, high quality, all natural. Go check them out, head over to MindPumpPartners.com. Click on Caldera Labs and then use the code MindPump for 20% off your first order of the

good serum. Also all month long, we're running a sale. We have a workout program bundle that's 50% off, and then we have a workout program that's 50% off. So here's what a workout program that's 50% off. So here's what they are. The bundle is the starter bundle. This includes maps and a ballack, maps prime, and the intuitive nutrition guide.

So the bundle is normally discounted. So what we do is we took an additional 50% off. So it's a huge discount. Then the program that's on sale, the individual program is maps split. This is an advanced bodybuilder style, bodypart split routine, high volume, it's for those of you that are advanced,

that program's 50% off. So if you're interested in either one or both, go to mapsfitinusproducts.com and then use the code MaySpecial for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show. All right, so I'm gonna start today's fitness tip by reading a proverb to all of you.

This is an Indian proverb and believe me, this actually applies very strongly what we're gonna talk about. So here's how it goes. A group of blind men heard that a strange animal called an elephant had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. So at a curiosity they said,

we must inspect and know it by touch of which we are capable. So they sought it out and when they found it, they groped about it. The first person whose hand landed on the trunk said, this is like a thick snake. For another one whose hand reached its ear, he thought it seemed like a fan.

Another person whose hand was upon its leg said that this must be a pillar, like a tree trunk. And then the blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant was a wall. Finally, one of them felt the tail and described it as a rope. And one of them also felt the tusk thinking that it was a spear. So what does this have to do with fitness? Can I tell you some two things?

One, I've never heard that before. It's cool. Two, I love you. Because I know exactly where you're going with this. This has to be related to our forum, little discussion that. Totally. Yes, totally.

So, okay, so it's an ancient proverb because essentially what it's explaining is that you really, you can't get the full picture of something when you just look at individual parts. So, especially things that are complex. So, this is a simple thing. It's an elephant, but they're blind and all they know is how to touch. And so, each person comes and gives their contribution.

Well, when we're talking about how the human body adapts and responds to stresses, like exercise or how it adapts to nutrition. For example, human metabolism is probably second, mammalian metabolism is probably the second most complex thing we've identified in the universe besides the human brain. So we're trying to identify like how the body adapts to exercise and nutrition, all that stuff.

It is a multitude of factors. To get a full picture, you can't look at one study, you can't look at two studies, you have to look at a lot of studies, and you also have to consider the opinions of experts who've been working in a particular field like that for decades and you have to take all of that and then you might get see how it all interacts and then yeah and that's still not far enough and then you have to account for behavior and psychology of people so much you have to factor that in because that we're we're that's ultimately what we're trying to do. So you have to paint the rest of the picture of

this and explain what happened in the forum where we were kind of going back and forth and you we had a kid. I don't remember his name in there. We should call him out because for that reason, uh, made a comment about the programming and And I knew right away, without him even saying any further, like who he's following on social media. Because there's a lot of people in our space, very smart guys, very fit guys, very experienced guys that love to use studies to make debates and arguments all day long on why this is better than that.

Yes. Now, here's a big issue is that in our space, you have like different camps of people who form different opinions. And one of the camps is the study camp. I do want to be very clear, studies are extremely valuable ways of uncovering the truth. They're not the only way

because we're talking about something that's very complex and studies also can be... It's amazing resource, but it's only like that one small piece of the... Well, they could be very limited. For example, when you look at a study, there's a few things that you want to consider, like the sample size is important.

How many people were in the study? Let's say it was 10, 10 people, and we divided this into two groups, and we tested two different training modalities. The odds that two or three of the people in one of the groups had like superior muscle building genetics is higher because it's a small sample size. So what if that happens? What if one group had one guy with like bodybuilder genes, which are super rare, right? But let's say there's one guy on one side and then you do the cumulative, you know, at the end of it, the results and you go, oh, wow, this method built way more muscle than this method, right?

So that's sample size. Okay. And then you can add in this is that it's in a controlled environment where they're running it for six to 12 weeks. And another factor plays that 90% of the population wouldn't consistently follow that or do that. Right. Because, behaviorally speaking, which doesn't take an account in that study.

No, that's where you get the experienced people who go, like, you know, here's an example, like, what if there was a study that said it compared, like, like, 10 different forms of cardio. And they said, have all these forms of cardio, the one that burned the most fat was swimming in a lake at 5 a.m., right? Okay, what is that worth? Nothing for most people, most people aren't gonna go swimming in a lake.

At 5 a.m. for cardio, the most effective forms of one that you need to do most consistently, right? That's what an experienced coach would say. Another one is who is in the sample? Look at the studies, especially fitness studies. 99% of them, or maybe that's too much, but I'd say a vast majority of them are college aged males. Do you think the results could change if it was women or if the age

group was different? Look, I've trained people for decades. If I trained people between the ages of 20 to 30 versus 40 to 50, am I going to get the same results? Are training modalities going to change? And which ones can be more effective? And what I need to focus on more on this group? Or is that... That's a big difference. Yeah, the methods applied, is it repeatable? Yeah, can you take that same study with a whole new host of different applicants? And it has the same result.

That's what science is trying to really discover is like how many times does this result happen within this controlled study? You're right. And another one is the length of the study. This one's interesting for fitness, right? So let's say it's a 12 week study. And let's say they're comparing a leg press

to a barbell squat and they take let's say 20 college aged males with some fitness experience which we don't know what that really means but usually it means that they've they've done sports or something in the background in the in the past and they compared leg press to barbell squat and they said oh wow look at this in 12 weeks the leg press built 2% more muscle, or it was equal, let's say it was equal. Here's the problem with that. The problem with that is that a barbell squat

is a far more technical exercise. It requires more skill. And this happened to me all the time. When I would train people, especially new people, especially beginners, it would take me two or three months before we could do squats in a way that built muscle, because it's a high-skill exercise. Now, leg press, I could sit someone on it,

load it right away. Yeah, almost right away, or within two weeks, I could start pushing, wait. So you're not getting a full picture. Now, in my experience, just using the same example, a barbell squat over time, over years and years and years, just keeps giving you returns. Whereas a leg press, yeah, you get some returns initially

because it's easy to learn. But then it starts to slow down, whereas the squats continue to kind of have that payoff. Another one is controls. What if we don't control their protein intake? Just protein impact, how much muscle you build? Or what about sleep? What about stress, all these different things?

And what if the study was observational or what about sleep? What about stress, all these different things? And what if the study was observational or survey-based? We surveyed 50 people who work out, ask them what they're like. So these are the things that you want to consider. Now, I'm not saying that again, studies are... Get a report through own diets. It's like, you know how inaccurate that is, having clients like how they would report, like just, oh, I forgot about all these things. Oh my God. You're not getting the full picture.

And so when you look at a study that says, this isolation exercise builds as much muscle in the quadriceps as this compound lift. And okay, that's one study, maybe found two or three like that. But consider all the stuff I said. And then don't ignore the, what you're gonna hear from people who are experienced experienced who actually worked with people for years and years and years because what do we all considering for example give a great example.

Here's why I like full body workouts over splits for most people the main reason if you work out your body your whole body three days a week versus doing a body part split. I know over the next year, two years, three years, the average person is gonna miss, you know, two workouts a month, let's say, three workouts a month. It tends to be the body part they don't wanna work on. Now if you miss a full body workout, you're still hitting your full body. And so over time, the full body workouts, one reason why they tend to be more successful is, you don't end up with these lagging body parts

because of your- Or addresses everything.... Dresses everything. Yeah, it addresses everything. So this is the stuff that we need to consider. And again, when you're passing, making these judgments, especially, let's say this is your hobby, or yours you like to read studies and listen to this act.

You know, here's what happens. This happens a lot of kids, too. This is the... A lot of people that hobby these days. Well, you know what it is, today, and it's so prevalent today, in comparison to 20 years ago, because now anybody can get on YouTube or Instagram and

Follow a couple people that claim to be experts and now all said you think you're an expert or yeah, especially if it confirms your bias of course It's met of course if you're if you're a kid I just want to build a lot of muscle and then you listen to my impumping like I got a squat and deadlift Like I can't really do those well those are hard. Yeah, I got a squat and deadlift, like I can't really do those well, those are hard. I got a work on mobility. Then he listened to something other guy who's like, no man, these exercise build just as much muscle, leg extension, hack squat. They're better for eye hypertrophy actually.

Yeah, and in fact, you're like, yes, I don't have to do all that hard stuff. And I only want, I really only care about how I look anyway. So you get that confirmation, you know, bias that's going on. So you got to consider all that stuff. And when you're talking about adaptation, I'm telling you right now, it is very complex.

Also the other thing too is that there's like general truths, but when you break it down to the individual, it's not always true because we're so different. Everybody's so different as a individual. And to be more specific to the person that we're addressing or the conversation that we're addressing, that was the thing, whereas that the maps programming is subpar for hypertrophy. And the reason why they think that is,

because and they're referencing some of the Instagram people out there that do the post of these exercises are better for hypertrophy than these compound lifts. And the case that we've been trying to make on the show, which I mean, when someone debates this, I'm like, you obviously haven't listened to that many episodes because I feel like we've addressed this before. 100 times. Yeah, we've gone over why that is.

And it's because the big bang that you get for your buck with compound lifts in comparison to them. All the stuff. Yeah. Not just hypertrophy. You have to factor all those other things in there. It's not that simple like a controlled study. And then therefore, okay, I'm going to skip doing barbell squats and all I'm going to do is lay extensions and leg press now because those are technically

better for hyperspace. I'll give you a great example. If you talk to a, like an Instagram diet, you know, influencer about how to lose the most amount of weight in 60 days. And then you listen to one of us talk about how to burn body fat. You're gonna get two different answers. Why? Because one person is, what they're worried about is how to get you to lose as much body fat in 60 days.

We trained people for a long time. I don't care about how fast you lose body fat. I care about if you can keep it off for the rest of your life. So my advice is based around that. When we're creating programs, we're like, for example, let's just say, using a multitude of machines

adds 2% more muscle than using free weights. Here's why I'm not gonna put a million machines in my programs. Most people don't have access to every single machine that I'm gonna listen to. Most people have access to free weights. Also, if you're tall or short or you move differently or whatever, free weights follow you, you have to follow the machine. So if you don't consider

any of that, then you're not getting the full picture. And this just happens a lot in our space, but especially when there's complex things like diet and nutrition and exercise and, all the stress, very complex pain, very complex. You're not going to get the answer by reading a few studies or listening to one person who specializes in the bodybuilding, fanatical, ridiculous community. There's a bit of a bias there going on too. Well, the problem with most of these studies too is they're done in such short windows. So little can be actually measured in six to 12 weeks.

Like you can get an idea of something, but like to your original point, if we were to take, if we actually follow a kid, okay, and same exact kid or the same two kids in the exact same situation, same body types, so let's just pretend they're twins or whatever. And one decides to follow all the stuff that they hear is like these, these exercises,

these isolation exercises are better for hypertrophy. And then this person is going to do all these boring, you know, compound lifts that we talk about all the time. And you follow that person over a year or two years time, I'm still going to put all my money on the person that's following the compound lifts. Now they may get a slower start because of the learning curve to your point. It may take them, it may take them two, three months before they can even really load the bar.

I mean, it took me a long time before I could really get after a squat. I spent almost a year fixing my squat before I could start to load that sucker and see the gains really start to compile. So if you were to have taken me for a six month study, I would have shown leg press and leg extension was better for my legs,

but that's not the case years later of lifting. You take two people who've never learned how to type properly, but who type all the time with the, you know, the hunt and peck method, and you have them compete on speed of typing, but you take one of them and say, we're gonna teach you how to type properly, and you have to use proper typing techniques.

For the first three months, he's gonna get smoked by the guy using this method right here, months, he's going to get smoked by the guy using this method right here. But after he really starts to master the technique of typing, he's going to surpass and hit much higher limits with the speed of typing. That's what we got to consider. So, look, we're not interested in short term result. The ceiling is much higher. It is. And here's a deal. Compendless. The short term, there is no problem with short term fitness. There isn't.

People lose weight all the time. The problem is not losing weight. The problem is not getting in shape in 30 days. People do that all the time. It's keeping it, right? That's the challenge. That's what we talk about. When we program our programs, like, if you don't, and here's a problem, and this is, I told

that kid this, I said, you're unconsciously incompetent. I didn't mean to be, I wasn't trying to be rude, but I'm like, you don't know what you don't know. So you're coming in with an opinion, but you're also blindfolded. And so... You're just parroting one thing that you've heard. Yeah, yeah, there's two of your poor, to what Sal said, to a bias that you already want to hear.

Exactly. That's half the problem. I would have loved to hear some of that stuff as a kid because that's hard. Yeah. I was lucky, by the way, I ran into power lifters who told me otherwise. And because I was a kid and they were jacked, I'm like, I'm gonna do what they say.

But had I not ran into those power lifters, I would have read an article and I would have been like, oh, squats, they don't build, I mean, I could build as much muscle doing leg extension, leg curls and leg, I'm doing that. Well, this is somewhat, I mean, again, I didn't read this with you guys.

And so, I could totally see where you're coming from with this. This is somewhat similar to conversations I've had with these kids. We just did a lift of thought on Friday. And it's basically, it's the reveal of all the hard works in January. And it's like, some kids are getting a little bit frustrated and this and that because they want to get the beach muscles, they want the hypertrophy focus, they want all these other things. But I'm like, you've got to trust the process,

trust the process. And guess what, we get to the day where we're now we're going to display and go for our max lifts, and it blew their mind how much they could lift in comparison. That's so awesome. So before, and it's like,

it's all of that was foundationally driven strength and was addressing things that they didn't even know I was addressing, right? And it's like, I'll have to sit there and explain all this stuff. I have those years of experience in that foresight as to what I see in terms of imbalances, what I see in terms of loss of power, leaks of power.

And you know, they don't, it's at that point where you just have to kind of concede sometimes and be like, I gotta trust that this result is gonna happen. Yeah, when I did, when I was a kid, I remember when I did judo, my dad brought me on as 12, the first like, I don't know, like two months, you just learn how to fall properly.

And I'm like, I just want to go ahead and throw people, I want to learn how to choke people. And you know, it's not always sexy, man. No, sensei is like, you don't learn how to fall properly. And I'm like, I just want to learn how to throw people. I don't know how to choke people. It's not always sexy, man. No, sensei is like, you don't know how to fall, dude. You don't learn how to fall. None of the other stuff is going to matter. So, yeah, I know it's funny. I know it's funny, we have to have these conversations,

but it's good because it's, again, you don't know what you don't know. And so it can be easy to judge or create an opinion without realizing the complexity of it. Yeah, but I mean, I didn't engage. I wanted to engage and I like took a deep breath of them. Like, I'm not going to engage this kid right now. But the, I think the part that annoys me is that do you think that we haven't read all those studies?

Yeah. Do you think the three, you're not aware? Yeah, do you think we're unaware of that? You know, because this, because some other guys touting it on Instagram or YouTube, you don't think we read those studies too or what? Like I'm paying attention to all those people, most of the studies they're pulling from are years old, so it's not.

You need to see what I eventually said. Cause he listed some of the people he's heard this from. And I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna say their names, I don't want to call anybody out, but I'm like, all right, I said here, do this. If you want to listen to anyone else, other than us, here's two people that I want to call anybody out, but I'm like, all right, I said, here's, do this. If you want to listen to anyone else, other than us, here's two people that I think have great advice. They're very science-based, but they're also very experienced.

They understand the whole picture. Joe DeFranco, Brett Contreras. Yeah. Okay, fitness stuff, right? You look at their fitness stuff, and they know they have a better idea of the complete picture because they look at the science, they, Contreras, I believe. I said, Lane is up there too. They know they have a better idea of the complete picture because they look at the science they

Contreras, I believe I say Lane is up there too Lane Norton. They're heavy on application. I'd say Lane lays up there too Yeah, very heavy science-based and yet but when it comes to lifting they understand a lot of So yeah, but Brett and Joe specifically of trained people over and over and over again Yeah, and so when you talk to them you hear you'll hear a lot of stuff that we say That's not why I like them. It's just that they have the experience, you know, not just the studies. Anyway, I got to tell you guys a hilarious story this weekend. So Jessica and I had a weekend away. Oh, you went to the sanctuary, yeah? No, no, no, no. We went somewhere else. We went a half-movie. Oh, so is that like a change of plan? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Gorgeous up there, by the way. It was like, was sunny but cool and. What did you guys say? It was a nice weekend. Ritz, oh you did that. Oh, it's a beautiful one. Gorgeous, right? It's on the cliff.

Fire, right? Have you been there? Yeah, the fire pits on the cliff. Spectacular, right? So we go there and it's a special thing because the baby's, this is like one of our first times away. And she's finally, I don't want to like, I don't wanna, like,

I don't wanna dare, yeah, but she's her like extreme nausea, I think is over. She still gets some of it, but not like it was, where she was like bed ridden or whatever. So I'm like, you know, we're like, let's have a nice weekend, so my mom watched the baby, so we go up there and we have this incredible dinner.

It was like a seven course like tasting menu. And you know, so like Really having a good time. I'm drinking and enjoying myself. Anyway, we go to bed and you guys know how I've been trying to get leaner because I snore and I keep syrup. This is like a battle. You don't want to have to sleep in a separate room from your wife. Trying to fix it by losing weight and I hadn't snore for like four days. So I'm like awesome.

So we go to this, we go to there, we have this dinner, I drink. I don't know if you guys know this, but I'll go to bed. So we go to bed and throughout the whole night, she'll like bump me or like wake me up, you know? And I'm half awake, so she wakes me up a little bit, and then I'm annoyed too, so we're kind of back and forth this whole night, right? So finally, I'm like, you're making too much noise. You just keep making noise. I said her and she bit and then I'm annoyed too, so we're kind of back and forth this all night, right? So finally, I'm like, you're making too much noise.

You just keep making noise. I said her and she's like, I'm doing that to prevent you from storing because then you're storing. I can't sleep and so then we get this little argument. Go back to sleep. I must have started storing you again. Because Jessica gets out of bed and she goes, do you mind if I take the covers?

And I said, yeah, I usually don't sleep with covers. I'm like, go ahead. Where are you going? She's like, in the bathroom. So she takes, she did not sleep with the bathtub. In the bathtub. No, she did.

She did, bro. She took, she got to go to her at the ritz and she slept with the bathtub. Bro, bathtub. Hey, they have a big tub. You know, at least it's a nice bathtub. She takes, she takes the covers, she takes everything, goes in there and closes the door. So now I'm sleeping in, you know, when those covers, she's in the bathtub and you know, we're both kind of like annoyed, right?

And then I started getting a little cold, you know? So I'm like, oh man. And then I started feeling bad for her. I'm like, she's sleeping in the bathtub. Like she's pregnant, like this is messed up. So then I go in there. I'll sleep in the bathtub. We need to.

I would never fit in the bathtub. So I go in there and I wake her up. I'm like, honey, I'm like, just coming to bed. I'll try to sit up in bed so that I don't snore as much. I convince her, she comes back. I'm sitting up in bed. Then, you know, we get a little argument again. It's like, oh, dude, but she was so like, she was good. She handled me well. Because she had every right to be annoyed, you know, with the whole thing and the fact that she went to the bathroom. It was really nice, even though I took it as like, you took the covers.

But uh, bro, now she, as she tried to do like earplugs, because I know some, I won't because she makes her anxious because she wants to hear, if she hears the baby or whatever. Yeah. So that sucks. I know. I know. I know. You can't really win in that situation. No, but she knows what you think I drank, dude. Doug and Doug and I were in Utah right this last week and Brooke was showing us this house. And had you ever seen a house that had that, a snore room? Oh no, I never heard of that before.

Yeah, so she actually was like, she was a custom home, it's crazy, like $5 million plus home. She was showing us that one of her friends was building or whatever, and she was showing the layout. And then it's the master bedroom. And then you go through like, I think the bathroom or closet

and then there's a room that's like sealed and it's called a snorkel room. And for that exact reason, that's where you get punished. No, I think that, we know for exact reason, like husband, snorkel like that, you send his ass to the snorkel room and that's where he's at.

I'd never heard that before. I don't know about you guys, I do not like sleeping separate from my wife. It feels weird to me. Does it feel like a very, you know? So I'm guys, I do not like sleeping separate from a wife. It feels weird to me. Does it feel like a married, you know? So I'm like, I'm not gonna sleep in a different room. I'm just gonna get leaner. I'm only some weight, you know,

because I can't be, I can't be, keep you up all day. Well, I end up right now a lot in the other room. Well, actually last night, I guess, they Katrina left him, I was a slept with Max in her room. But when he comes, like he's been sick so much, so we let him in the bed when he's he comes, like he's been sick so much. So we let

him in the bed when he's sick. And then he's like kicking me, coughing on me. That's all I got sick again because he was coughing on me all night long. So a lot of times I'll start in bed with her. And then around one or two, he wakes up or something. He'll come in. And then I just like half asleep, walked to the other room and end up sleeping like that. So it's kind of our life for like the last year or so. It's so funny though. I go in the bathroom and she's like, curled up.

Do I can't let you see this? If this is the self-food? Well, I felt like the B-A, I felt like the big, because I got, I was a little annoyed, cause you know when you're halfway, the irony of being at like the Ritz, too. You know what I'm saying? You're at like the super fancy hotel

and she's sleeping in the bathtub. That's good. It's so, it's good. Check that off is not one of her favorite places. But the food was incredible. Oh my God, they do that. Because I like, I like, I'm not, you guys know, some of the big things person,

I don't spend money on things, but I'll spend on experiences. And so they bring out like these little, and you know what's funny is if I took my, like my grandfather, my dad, to a restaurant like that, they would hate it because that's a small portions, you know? Yeah.

But I love that. I love tasting a little bit and then waiting and taking two or three hours for dinner was a lot of it. It's very Italian of you. Well, no, I'll tell you, no, my channel. That's how they are over there, though. Over and over and over. No, you get a lot of everything.

No, no, no, no, I mean like the taking time between meals. Oh, yeah. Like a meal is like a four hour experience. I'll never forget going with there how like weird that was for me. Bro, you'll see your waiters in between. And just like take off. Yeah, they'll take off, go smoke outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're all what are you doing? Go get my food. Yeah, no, and like between each like serving is like half hour. It's like two, we're gonna be here all day. To my grandfather one time went to a restaurant like that and he's old school, right? And they brought out One of the one of the dishes was three just three Ravioli

You should have seen my grandfather's face. I thought he was gonna like kill someone. It's like what the hell He gets up and he goes to the back and start complaining Where's the rest of my friend? Who gives why you only give me three Ravioli? I'm like no, that's not worse. That's just a tasty Yeah, that was always my perception of these high-end Restaurants, so he's. These tiny little portions. I was like, don't get it. I don't understand it.

And then once you get older, you understand the palette. You're like, wow. This is fantastic. Did you do anything with your family this weekend? Yeah, well, we spent some time going to the beach and getting a lot of sun and stuff. Was there a lot of people out there because the weather was so good?

Yeah, I mean, it was pretty packed. I did have a pretty cool experience because, so you guys remember when I was talking about my trip when I went to Salt Lake and the kids were competing in gymnastics, and then I wasn't able to get these medals because like, you feel like it was like way later and I felt like terrible and I was like, you know, like just talking about it. And I guess so this guy Craig Orness, he runs his own trophy

business and does like rings and class rings and you know all this kind of stuff out of Iowa. He was like, hey man, I just wanted to make these for you and send him to your kid. A listener? Yeah, a listener. Oh, that's so cool. I was like just totally taking back, man. That was so cool.

I want a trophy. Yeah, yeah. So just a red trophy. And he was going to do them for the lift a thawing thing I was throwing together too, but unfortunately they didn't kind of come in time, but like the medals for the gymnastics came. And so I had them and I was thrown together too, but unfortunately, they didn't kind of come in time, but like the, the medals for the gymnastics came and so I had them and I was like,

oh, I gotta do something like cool to set this up for Everett. And so he actually had his friend with us. One of his good friends, we took him to the beach with us. And so I was like, oh, Everett, stay there. He was up on the rocks and I'm like, I got something for you. And then like, did this whole like ceremony had

pretty like put it on. Was he all pumped? And he's like, yeah! Like, I had him like, a tix of pics of him, you know, out there. That's great. But it was just really cool, because he, it's cool he received it well too.

Because he could still be like a little shit about it. Yeah. This isn't the real trophy. No, he knows you won. Yeah, I know. But still, I mean, it's cool. It's a game on the back and everything. No, he knows you won. Yeah, I know. But still, I mean, it's a little game on the back and everything, the events. And so, dude, you're so pumped about it.

I just like, I seriously, I can't say enough about our fans to come to you. I'm so, you just reminded me something. It's so shameless for me to do this, but you just, because you said that about our listeners, and I know we have a bunch of listeners that actually have 3D printers. So, my truck's here today.

And I don't know if you guys even noticed my center of my hubcaps are out on all my truck. Have you never said four? Okay, so I lost the center hub cap that covers the lug nuts on one of the four tires. And it just looks stupid with one missing. So I've pulled them all off. And I've been trying, you can't, they discontinued it. Can't order anywhere. Can't find anything. And it dawned on me

the other day. Actually Katrina brought it up. She did. Don't you guys have a bunch of people that do 3D printing? And I'm like, Oh my God, it's such a, it's just a piece of plastic. So did you send them one in the coffee? Yeah, I should be able to do it. So if you are a listener and you have a 3D printer, of course, I'll pay you. It's not a big deal. Like I, because I can't order and I can't buy one. They've been meaning to bring it up on the show, I actually meant to bring it so I could show it, but I mean, it's literally like this big around

and I can send that out first, so DM me or message me, get a hold of me or whatever. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. When you guys were kids, what did you like better? A metal or trophy? Did you guys ever prefer a trophy for sure? Yeah, trophy always in the metal guy either.

You know what I hated the most? A ribbon. You ever win a ribbon? Yes. What is that? I threw all those things. A ribbon so science fair or four age. That's why.

Yeah, science fair or four age. It's a blue ribbon. It's like, it's not very smart. It's not very smart. Or it's also like, oh, here's your ribbon for participating. What the hell is that? I don't need a participation. Yeah, yeah, yeah's your ribbon for participating. What the hell is that? I don't need a participation ribbon or whatever.

So dumb. Yeah, I like. I wanted a guy, it was like buff, swinging a bat or like shooting a basketball. I love that when you get trophy. I mean, I don't care what sport you played. Whoever the person displayed in the trophy, there were always jacked.

Yeah. And you wanted the tallest one, right? There's the smaller one. You want the tall one, this is like, I got a trophy. I mean, it's not as big as some of the, I've seen some crazy trophies, but it had like two like layers to it.

So it's like, it layers, another layer, whatever on the side. Oh, this is the best trophy. I think this is one of the biggest ones I've had. I don't think I have, I don't think I ever got any, all the soccer and basketballs you got bronze. Yeah, the USA one.

And that's bigger than the regular show. So if you do like a regular show, the guys, I don't know about that bigger with that. So the USA is a bigger part. Are they still giving kids participation trophies, huh? A lot of places. I mean, yeah, but I don't, my kids, it is a dream to like, kids throw them away.

Yeah, I don't care. Did you know what else was on? Unless they earn it. It's like so stupid. It doesn't mean anything. I, who was it? It was my, I want to say, it might have been my daughter.

She was playing basketball, when she was younger, and they didn't keep score. So they didn't keep score of the game. Kids just play. You know who keeps the score? Kids. The kids keep the score. They know who won. Every time know who keeps the score? Kids. Kids keep the score.

They know who won. They know every time. What are we doing? Why are we not keeping score? After the game, my daughter comes up to, we won. 25 to whatever. What I'm like, you guys keep it. The idea is they think it's a nice idea to be inclusive

and whatever, but it takes out the whole meaning of the sport and the merit of your efforts. So what you're doing is really just cannibalizing the sport. It's also counter human behavior, and you know, you don't teach kids. When you do that, you never teach them how, because working together, you need to learn how to fail too.

And win. And that you suck. There's a skill in winnale. We talk about this a lot about this with kids, but you know, this, this blood into business and adults. Yeah. I mean, I remember when I was at 24, the thing

that got me to finally leave that company was, so I went through eight different comp plans in less than 10 years, right? So basically every year, a new comp plan. And every time the comp plan would come out, anybody that's ever been through that in a company, it's always geared to help the company. That's why they restructure it. But for the first six of those, they still always dangled the carrot enough, like you so, if you were, so it was like this,

the original comp plan, if you were in the top 20% dial, you crushed. And then the next comp plan comes out, it's like, well, as long as you're in the top 15%, you can still crush. Then the 10, like you kept doing that, right? And so, and I always found a way to stay in the top and make really good money.

Well, the final comp plan before I left, it put a ceiling. It didn't matter. It didn't matter if I was the one percent. If I was the best in the entire company, I was not going to continue to get paid. So why do that extra bit to push? Exactly. But the idea and the concept was to try and bring up the DNC players up by incentivizing them by paying them more for basically doing the same job.

How good of that strategy? Yeah, that's a terrible strategy. I know it didn't work at all. It always sounds logical, like, yeah, people trying to explain it. Well, but you know, why doesn't it play out like that? Well, here's a deal. It's because they're the loud majority, right? They're the 80%.

So they're the 80% of the cons constantly you think of a company that has, you know, 10,000 employees and you've got 6,000 in bar. Oh, or not. Our salary are not paid enough. Yeah. So what do they do? They they they took the cream off the top to help feed all the bottom and bring everybody up a little bit. But then it's up. But that's the wrong way to do it. I know it is. Initially, it makes the majority happy because they got paid a little bit more. But what you ended up doing was you discouraged all your OCCIS. And you also get ready your top performers. Yeah, you're getting your rabbits.

Yeah, you're always chasing them. Yeah, the people that were pulling that company up, they all go find other places to go make money. Yeah, no, no, in tech, I forgot who said this, and this is actually a true statistic. A super high performing engineer, like one is worth, I think more in terms of production than like 20, or it was like a ridiculous number, like 20 or 30 of your standard. You shared that step before and I would make the case

that that's the same in almost every profession. Most, you're probably right. Right, I mean, think about your experience, okay? And I mean, I always had somewhere between on the low end, probably 12 to 15 trainers and the high end 25 trainers working for me. And, you know, it was three or four that like I could literally turn over the rest

and hire brand new person. Keep those top three or four. Keep those top three. And we would be trucking along just fine because they were the bulk of the revenue stream and they were the real talent. And not only that, because there's another way that makes them more valuable,

aside from their personal production themselves. But they also have the skill sets to train the new players that are coming in. So I would imagine that engineer stat that you bring about time is similar. Look, I don't know about you guys, but every great production team I've ever been on, always had a similar. Look, I don't know about you guys, but every great production team I've ever been on, always had a superstar,

and that's part of the reason why other people rose to the occasion. I actually had a, it's not waiting. Winning and losing, I had a good teaching opportunity for my daughter recently. So my daughter, my oldest daughter, she's 12.

She's hyper ambitious, like very, very ambitious, very hard working. So awesome. It is, but what's hyper ambitious like very very ambitious very hard working so awesome It is but what's the dark side of that right is that you can you can overwork yourself of course Of course, but I know I know you too though. You would always rather have a kid or an employee that you would have to pull back Of course, then you constantly it's just different right? Oh Oh yeah, definitely. And so she ran for student council, and the position she ran for, she's in sixth grade, she was running against the seventh grader. So the odds that she was gonna win are very low

because it's hard, you know how it is when you're a kid, like a grade above you, they're gonna get more attention, more votes, that kind of stuff. But she was super prepared, did her speech, got her posters, like, and really impressive. Like, I don't think I would have given a speech in front of the school at 6'8",

but she went up and did it and did the whole thing around for me. I don't think I would have done it. I'm scared. Well, anyway, she didn't win. So she, which the odds of her winning were super low to begin with, she was so upset. I really, I really, I really, yeah, because that's my daughter.

She's so, and I, you know, I had a nice conversation with her and I said, you know, because I was called a champion. And they said, you know why I call you with her and I said, you know, because I was called a champion. And they said, you know why I call you a champion? I said, it's not because you win all the time. It's because you don't give up. And I said, you know, you either win or you learn, and we had this whole conversation about it. And I also told her, look, you did your best. The odds were low. But now you can pick up from this learn and then try again next time. But this is what life is all about you're gonna in every time you lose

You have the opportunity to become much better. I said and I told her this too I said you learn way more from losing than you do from winning, which is true Although there's lessons in winning you learn way more. I mean every loss I ever had I Way more learning came from and growth came from that. Oh, yeah, this whole conversation I felt so bad. She was so upset. Cause she put this stuff. Yeah. She worked so hard.

Yeah. But she's, dude, she's a, she's an animal. Yeah. Comparing the two, your two kids, your two oldest, do they both handle loss and frustration completely different? Um, how does Dominican handle it when like, I mean, he doesn't like it either, but he's less of a perfectionist in that sense. So I think he kind of,

and he's also older, so he's kind of handled some of this as he's, cause he's, you know, what's he gonna turn? She's, he'll be 17 this year. You know, he's, he's learned some of that stuff as they go along. Also ambitious, you know, individual, but he's just older and I think he kind of gets it a little bit. He also gets frustrated, especially if he really puts it in.

That's what I mean. I don't know if you can still remember remembering when he was her age, like his first failure or struggle. Did he handle it like her or did he handle it in a different manner? Do you remember? I'm trying to think right now. He would definitely get upset. You know, she's funny though, because so he measures things differently.

So they both have an element in me. Like my daughter has this hyper ambition and my son can also be very meticulous about an understanding about practicality. So he'll do something like, well, if I score more than 75% on this test, it's not going to affect my grade. I can't go up another grade. So he'll do it like that, right? He'll do the math. He'll do the math, right? Whereas my daughter's like, the reports do Friday, I have to turn it in on Monday. Like, why? Why? What if the turn Monday? Because I have to.

Like, what? You have to turn it on Monday. It's due Friday, you know? So that sends their, they're very different. But I was, I was grateful for the, for the teaching opportunity. I just felt bad because I know that she, you know, she, she really put a lot into it. Type of dude. But man, six, going up, speaking front of people. Huge. I know, dude. That's a, I wouldn't have done that. No, not in sixth grade.

No, it took me a while to pick that. I remember, I remember sixth grade was about when you start doing the speeches in front of the class, and I actually never liked that. That's your most self-conscious, too, at that age. I didn't like it until junior college. I had a good experience in junior college. I had a decent, one of my better teachers

in Junior College for speech. And that was the first time I actually didn't mind getting up. But I still don't. I mean, I passed on one of the last things that we did. I still don't love doing that. Dude, his fourth grade for me is very vivid and in line. You say traumatized.

Oh, yeah. I'm a little traumatized. I can see on your face when you sit right there.. I was like, okay. I remember exactly what did it was 1989. I was wearing the blue shorts with the red Bangs up like this Oh my god, bro tell the story. I want to get out. I was like So this this literally did like traumatize me. I bombed so how you How have you never told this story to us? He did once. He did?

Yeah, he broke a long time ago, because yeah, I froze. I was trying to describe something that was not in my wheelhouse. So this was like how to cook something and my mom like just helped me come up with an idea because I couldn't think about like being able to teach the class how to do something which was the assignment. So I had to get in front of the class

and then like describe, okay. Something, you know, I could have just stuck with sports which would have been a way better idea. So I get it. So you had to tell a descriptor speech. Yes. And your mom gave you the idea, let's do a recipe. Let's do a recipe and then have that so they can eat it

and they're gonna be all happy. You know, like such a mom idea. Okay. Yeah. Like I'm gonna throw this right on You know, like such a mom idea. Okay, yeah. Like I'm gonna throw this right on her, throw her under the bus. This is what we call a mom. That was so hard. Yeah, everything makes sense right now.

Anyway continue. And then so she's in there too, which was even worse. And I'm like speaking in front of the class and I'm like trying to remember all the details and like, I don't remember and then I'd be looking over for help and she's like details and like, I don't remember and then I'd be looking over for help and she's just like trying to like, mine it to me.

My sister's working and then I just like, little is like, I was like, I don't know. And then I just like walked out of the class. Oh shit. I lost my shit, dude. Yeah. Wow. And everybody was just like, didn't know what to do. You know, because I obviously like, I just, I freaked out.

That was fourth grade, fourth grade. And that's, hey, at that age, first grade. Yeah, everybody judging me, you know, and all that, that stuck with me, dude, all the way up to college, probably. And that's why you became a bully. For sure, that was part of it. That's why he definitely don't like doing this thing. No, that's why I don't do the speech thing, dude.

I'm not like interested? And it really is like something I've had to work my way out of it, but like even starting the podcast. I remember all that stuff. Like it's like just what I say means something. So this is a lot. So I've had this conversation, at least a hundred time on my kids and I tell them this.

I said, I don't care what space you work in. I don't care what profession you have. Practice speaking in front of groups because it's the number one fear that people have. Whenever people list their top fears, one of the top fears is almost always speaking in front of large groups. So if you can develop, you don't have to be great.

If you're just not afraid of it or you're better than most people, you'll be valuable in whatever you do and it's true This is the cool part those like so we talk about the differences in my kids and like how like ever's probably like more my personality, but Fearless fear list for I was I sat in on one of his presentations like he was doing for this author of a book that he was reading. You were more nervous than he was. Just dying. I don't just like just make sure you were like,

like, living my carestaking, I'm like, I'm not a big turd. Oh God, dude, it's so happening. You can't see him being like that with his kid on the first time he had a speak like that. I could see him. Crushed it. That's great.

That's awesome. Crushed it. Like, I was holding him back. I just like was, I was like, oh my God. I need help because I don't know how to not cry when I see my kids do some shit. I'm always like a class. Especially so that where they overcome

something that you know has been a battle for you, right? You're a kid, you know, it's your DNA right there. Something you battle with your whole life and then they overcome it. I'm like, damn it, he's gonna be so much better than me. Dude, like, because like, dude, he's hilarious. He's come out with jokes all the time. The other like, damn, he's gonna be so much better than me, dude, like, because like, dude, he's hilarious, he's come out with jokes all the time. The other day, like, so Courtney, like, puts them to sleep

and she was like, I love you to moon and back. You know, it's that kind of thing. He's like, I love you to your renaissance and back, mom. And I'm just like, I'm just like, it's amazing, dude. I love it. Yeah, like, he just comes up with crazy stuff all the time. I'm just speaking of things that are terrifying,

I know we weren't supposed to bring this up, but I'm gonna try and do this in a PC way. So I walk into the bathroom today. Oh God, you're bringing that in. What the, Doug's like, listen, I gotta bring this up, Doug, because it's so crazy. It's a picture. Well, I want it first.

Bro, we'll post the picture, you have to blur it out though. I got the video,. I got the video. No, I got the video. I walk in the bathroom and on the toilet in the back is a massive sex toy. It's a realistic look at what it's all going to say. It's a fallous, it's just sitting there. In the back, Swartigot Andrew, in the back of the toilet,

it's just stuck on the back. Stuck on the back. So I see it. I come in first this morning, okay? So I come in first. Dude. I will on the first one. I thought one of you guys put the back. So I see I come in first this morning. Okay, so I come in first dude I will I'm the first one. I thought one you guys put it So I went back in there and I and I saw it and I want fucking Sal It's not the same thing. Yes He's pranked yes

I was like I'm gonna you know I'm not I was like, I'm not even giving the gratification. I'm not even gonna say nothing. I'm not gonna say nothing. I'm gonna have to go to no big deal. I'm not gonna say shit because I know that's why he's trying to get out of me. So I didn't say anything to anybody. I just waited.

I was like waiting for someone else to go back there and say something to see who really left it there because Doug and I were gone all week. So I knew obviously it wasn't Doug or I who did that. And neither one of us would probably do it. I was like, I knew it was one of you two and I thought it was you. so I knew obviously it wasn't Doug or I who did that. And neither one of us would probably do it. Bring it on there. So I knew it was one of you two, and I thought it was you. But you said you didn't know.

No, dude, I went back to him like, what the hell? So here's what's even worse now. Now that it's none of you guys, who the hell? It's creepy, like it's not like funny. It's like, well no one asked Andrew. Is that yours? Huh? It wasn't me.

It was a baby-sandy Murphy line. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. Andrew's like, oh wait, was it, was it me? Huh? What was it me? What was it me? That's a famous Eddie Murphy line. What if Andrew? What if Andrew was me? What if Andrew's like, oh wait, was it red with? Yeah, yeah. No. No. He's like, okay, it's not me.

I'm like, was it you? Yeah. No, no, no. Now I'm gonna tell you guys something right now. What a different, the way that I reacted is so different now than I would have reacted in my 20s. I swore to God, if I was in my 20s and I found that, I would have been throwing it at you guys.

I would have got it, I would have grabbed it with some toy paper and it would have been chucking at when you guys were in a war. I mean, I would have still done that in my 40s right now. The only difference is we have a staff now so that goes right. So it's like, we got like five and throw some five and four. Dude, it's like it's cool, it's a joke,

but I need some resolve. Yeah, I can't go on my day Not knowing like who put that in there. I feel uneasy. Yeah, Doug. You're gonna have to make some calls We're gonna have to get to the bottom Doug I have no All the people that that worker out here and ask them. It's there show my picture of it. It's yours We gotta do some sleeping go get it out of the garbage look up the brand. We're gonna find out where it was purchased.

We're gonna isolate. Hey, how's the case? So Doug was with me, by the way, was so funny. We were having breakfast on the way out. And he's like, on his, he's off caffeine completely. And somebody's snuck it into his drink. And he was like freaking out. I'm in off caffeine.

No caffeine. Did you like that? So he's been off. He's off. He's off completely. I'm down to one cup of coffee. I know you're not even trying. What are you at right now?

I'm down now. So I'm doing the staggered kind of approach. And what I've been doing now is I did what you told, what you said. I mixed organifi red juice with pure. Yeah. Oh, how was that? Oh, you tried that?

Yeah, it's crazy. It's great. It's like you definitely get energy from it. You feel good, but it's non-stimulatory. It's not like caffeine, right? So it's a good taste together. Not bad. Not bad.

Not bad at all. Not bad. Yeah, I just had mine, but I did some pure and... Well, I wonder if, because I do mine with element T right now. So I do the watermelon element T with the red chrymphol 3 together. Yeah. No, it's that, that's that, there's no, there's no, interaction. There's no whole fargo sound. It's the whole that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's You know, high days are 200 milligrams low days are 100 milligrams and I'm going to give it another week before I go off

Completely, I don't I mean though even even the way I'm doing I still noticing some of the effects But the the red juice and now combining with the pure has helped yeah, I was taking it with Before the whole lift a thaw thing. I it was funny because I realized too like because we had parents We had people in community come and everything and like I was like man I'm gonna be nervous But I decided to like get a microphone in a speaker and then that changed everything for me. For some reason, I'm, that's like my comfort zone. Really?

I'm like, yeah, you know, just like, I'm like, yeah dude, because now I can like, MC and have personality behind it otherwise, I'm just like yelling, trying to get attention and it's just like, the floor's mine, dude. Like everybody has to suffer with it. You know what's weird about you? Well, there's a lot of things weird about you,

but this part's really, this part's really here. There's a lot of things. Joe, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, so Justin, obviously you got to think about speaking to groups in public. Yeah. But tell him to be funny or give him an instrument or something like that. And he'll do that shit in front of hell

Yeah, I think that's way hard. I would never do that way harder. Yeah, I would never I'm much prefer. Yeah, I don't act all goofy and silly and so like that. Yeah, I would I have a hard time with that way more Challenging no way. Hey, I have some I have some things I want to talk about or add to cold therapy So you know we had Wim Hof on on, which that episode will be airing. One of my favorites. Soon. This is your great one. And yesterday, Doug says.

Yes, it was already up. Okay, sorry. So as of the recording of this, we've already had it up. But anyway. Yes, so. So people in our space, always, again, this is actually to the beginning of the episode, they talk about everything in relation to muscle growth

and they don't consider the big picture. So cold therapy, if you do it post workout, does blunt, not destroy, but a little bit will blunt the muscle building signal because the muscle building signal is mediated through many different ways, but one of them is inflammation. So you work out this as inflammatory response,

that tells the body repair a build muscle. If you reduce some of the inflammation by immersing yourself in cold water, then you'll build a little bit less muscle, a little bit less strength. So you got all these fitness people like, don't use cold therapy post workout. There's a way to use cold therapy post workout where you'll actually, you'll benefit from it. Here's how it is. Because it blunts the inflammatory response, it allows you to train with more volume. So, you can actually tip over slightly the doing too much scale, add the cold therapy, and then you're okay.

Oh, that's interesting. Now, why would you want to do that? Because more volume allows you to practice exercise skills more often. So I can see this being valuable to like Olympic lifters or power lifters where perfecting the skill of a lift is so important. I would, I could also make this argument too. Yeah, but I don't need to make the case that sleep is extremely important, right?

A lot of people would say it's one of the most important things when it comes to recovery and building muscle. And so one of the best things about cold therapy is it trains you to breathe correctly. And most of us do not breathe correctly. And just a pride, I remember when I first started to learn how to box breathe. And at night, if I was think, the anxious

and thinking about what, how quickly I could box breathe and bring, I mean, I've shared this on the podcast a long time ago, Katrina would actually like elbow me and then she would make me breathe with her. Come on. And we do the breaths together. And then after like five of those, Katrina would actually like elbow me and then she would make me breathe with her. Come on. We would do the breaths together and then after like five of those, I'd be like, oh, come down and then go to sleep.

So this is, and just like anything else, you train it all the time and then you get faster and better at doing it or subconsciously just learn how to do that. So yes, it may blunt the muscle building signal or dampen the. I mean, I look at a whole picture. Right. But if it increases your sleep quality by 15 to 20% over the period. That makes up the difference. More that makes up for us. So there are other, and this ties in perfect with the way we started this podcast that I can't stand when we take a study and then there would be people that will shit on cold therapy for people that are trying to build muscle for that reason when there's a much bigger picture going on besides just the fucking one hour workout and then the 30 minutes after the first so you have and let's talk about stress what that does when you when you learn how to adapt inside cold therapy so there's so many other benefits that also contribute to building muscle and recovery

that you are getting from that. So if you are a hardcore muscle building person and you've heard you shouldn't do cold therapy for the reasons. Because it reduces the muscle building signal by 7%. Yes. Yeah. You got to factor in all those other things. 100% and then to my point, like if you're practicing a skill, like a, like a clean or a jerk, which are very, very skill-based, more volume is more important, so you could practice some more often. Well, if you're already on the line of over training, like I can't practice it anymore,

well, if you're gonna do cold therapy afterwards, you could throw in a few more sets, and you'll balance it out. Now, that was my whole point with that. Anyway, I wanna ask you guys, do your guys as wives steal your caldera like mine does? Yeah, hold the time. So, I need to get, so so, so funny because it's,

I mean everybody uses it, but I know initially caldera was kind of like advertising to man, although it's for both men and women. My, I let her try it, which was my mistake. It's now it's her, it's not mine. No, she could turn it hasn't tried it yet. Oh, don't, yeah, yeah. I don't give it to her.

No, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll sting you with my stuff like that. I've got my little kit that I keep, and it's like my side of the sink, you stay on your side, my side, yeah, we're very, no, no, Jessica, that's it. It's not mind-mortar. Now, is she using the cream, the oil, which one is she using?

Just the serum. The serum. I mean, that's the main, I mean, all the other stuff is valuable too, but that serum is, I, I, so I actually, the big difference. So, okay, so the serum is what got me started using it, and I use that every, I just saw me putting it on

before we started the podcast But I actually like the moisturizer the best really yeah, I do use the moisturizer done. I do that's personally really really nice Yeah, I mean I could like literally put it on and see a dramatic difference and the serum gives me kind of this a little shiny Look like a little like almost oily looking which is whatever I mean, it's fine because I've dry skin, so I like it, and it feels amazing. But the moisturizer, I feel like, doesn't do that, and it just, I don't know how to explain it. The serum lasts forever too,

because I put it on my face, and I have oily skin, so it doesn't make me oily, and actually balances it out. So I wish, but it's like two drops. That, that, that, they will ask me. That's what's cool about it. Forever. Yeah, the serum will go a long ways. I go to the moisturizer pretty fast.

Put on my hands a bunch, which helps. I do, they get so dry and crack like all the time and I just put that on drinking up water. Yeah, dude, I drink a lot of water. I don't know, you sure? Yeah, I've brought you a lot of time. You're just like a big thing. You're just a gator.

I'm just a gator, dude. I just dryness like, like just follows me. Well, anyway, I hope, I hope at the, I mean, just follows me. Well anyway, I hope I hope at the end, I mean, just to finish this off here, I hope we find the culprit for the toy in the bathroom to find out this, because I'm seriously freaking out about this. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the show real quick.

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when you do this special bundle. So here's what you gotta do. Go to mindpumppartners.com and click on live on labs for that hookup. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First question is from Andy Aakins. Do you recommend deadlifts,

despite the internet, saying it is not a great hypertrophy movie. Oh yeah, you know what else the internet says? Yeah. That the world is flat. The whole group of people is a world is flat. We'll see people rule everything. That lizard people rule the, so this is flat. The whole group of people is in the world is flat. Those are people, rule everything. That lizard people, rule the...

So this is silly. The deadlift is an exceptional exercise, and it does build a lot of muscle. Okay, you ask anybody who's been, who's very experienced with the deadlift, who's been training people for a long time, it has tremendous benefits. Now, I know there's studies that will say,

a barbell row is better for this, or a pull-up is better for that. But overall, and this is one of the things that we have to consider when we look at exercises, what's their carryover to other exercises, and what does that mean? This is a, you have to look at the big picture, and there's few exercises that allow you to handle the load that a deadlift will allow you to handle. In fact, for most people, it's the heaviest exercise they'll ever do. Yes. And the amount of tension that that creates in the posterior chain, which includes the entire back, is unmatched.

You're not going to get it with a barbell row. You're not going to get it with a pull-up. What places that kind of demand on your body? Nothing. Nothing else you can prepare. Nothing we're supposed to hear a chain as well as a deadlift does. Here's where this argument comes from. If you were to talk about hypertrophy of a specific muscle like say the rear delts, because

even the rear delts are getting some work in a deadlift, right? Cause a deadlift literally hits the entire posterior chain. But could I pick an exercise, like that could target the rear delts more for hypertrophy than deadlift? Yeah, sure. Okay, that could target the rear delts more for hypertrophy than deadlift. Yeah, sure. Okay, that's fair. But for an overall back hamstring and glute exercise, three of your biggest muscles on your body, nothing is gonna build more muscle.

No, you'd have to put like six or seven exercises together. And then that would be a lot of volume, it'd be a lot of work. It's not, you're not gonna create as much tension in the body. And here's a deal, I know a lot of volume, it'd be a lot of work. You're not gonna create as much tension in the body. And here's a deal, I know a lot of people want, show me the guy or girl that deadlift's that's got a great back. Okay, some of the most winningest Mr. Olympia,

is Ronnie Coleman, who is considered by most bodybuilding fans to be the greatest of all time. Okay, like in a league of his own, when it comes to bodybuilding. He was a huge Deadlifter huge even Doreen eats with the massive back. He stopped deadlifting later on his career But he did deadlifts when he was younger in his career most bodybuilders do you have now the mr. Classic Olympia what's his name see bum he deadlifts quite a bit. He's built tremendous back. I've seen it with clients I've also and I remember you talking about this Adam,

because you weren't a huge deadlifter until we met, and I remember you stopped doing other back exercises. Completely. Yeah, talk about that. Like what happened? For up until, I got ready for competing, which was at 29, 30 years old, right? So for the first 10, 12 years,

or more of my lifting career, I never did lift it. Ever. It was all rows and pull-ups and hammer strength machines and dumbbell rows and bent over rows, T-bar row. I mean, I did everything else. I did deadlift. And to be honest with you, I didn't deadlift because I didn't know how to do really well. I didn't have the technique down, seemed like a really difficult exercise.

And I never had somebody mentor me or take me under their wing to teach me. So I ignored it. I finally came around to learning how to do it, started to get the technique down, started to see my strength go up and it really quick. And then I thought, okay, well, let me, because the people that are huge advocates of the deadlift are, you know, they're in that camp where it's just like deadlifting is superior to all these other lifts.

So, okay, well, I've done all this other stuff for over a decade. Now, I've never dedicated myself to this lift to see what it could do for my physique. And since I was never a strength guy first, that's kind of why I ignored it because I've always been the muscle building guy and for this exact...

It's a powerlifting exercise, right? And so, you know, your muscle building guys don't talk a lot about it as much, or at least not most of them. But I began to do this, and I thought, okay, a great way to really test this is to literally like drop all other back exercises and just deadlift.

I was deadlifting at least three times a week, all the variations, and I would modify, you know, I was going heavy every single day, and technique and stuff, And my back blew up. And not only did my back blow up, I mean, I had picture. I wish I could still find it. God, you had such a great picture. I know, I had some before and after pictures.

I used to post on my Instagram when I was going through all this. But one of the craziest things that I thought was so significant was all the exercises that I stopped doing that I didn't do for like over a year, I reintroduced later on after I got my deadlift up to 550. So I went from a guy who never deadlift was deadlifting like 135 to start off with, worked my way all the way up to 550 pounds. That's where I maxed out at. And when I got there, then I started to reintroduce those other exercises.

I was stronger in all back lifts significantly, not like five or 10 pounds, like significantly stronger in every other pack of size. And my back looked bigger, thicker, wider than it ever. This speaks to force production, okay? And so this is something that I wanted to always chime in because a lot of these internet people are out there like testing everything through these muscle activation devices and how active the muscle is specifically in that type of lift.

But if you're looking at it in terms of force production, you can't even match it with the deadlift. The deadlift, you have to generate so much force to be able to pull off that movement. I keep thinking of, so I think it was Dr. Andrew Ospina, he talks about force being the language of the cells. It actually like determines like how they're going to react and how you need to then be able to build this tolerance and this resistance to all this force, which then you know,

is a muscle building signal. This all comes from the central nervous system. So yes, there's value in hypertrophy training and isolation, but in terms of now, you then being able to stretch the capacity of force production, you bring that back into a hypertrophy setting, you're gonna have more strength control and you're gonna get more out of the hypertrophy. Yeah, yeah.

Anybody who works out in the heaviest exercise that they typically can do is a deadlift, you're not gonna be able to match that. And then to what Adam was saying, I need to reiterate that, because I don't think people, a lot of people might not realize how crazy that is. Strength is a skill.

So typically, if you get good at an exercise, most of the straight gains are in that exercise. And there's some carryover to other exercises. And the more similar the other exercises are, the more carryover. For example, a bench press is gonna carry over more to, an incline press, then it will, to let's say a barbell row, which really has nothing in common with it, right?

So there's a lot of skill with strength, and it's very specific. You know how crazy it is to avoid doing all these exercises and just do one, come back to these exercises that you haven't done in a long time, and you're significantly stronger. That speaks. It blew my mind. That speaks volumes. Now, I do want to be very clear. We're not saying just deadlift. All these exercises have tremendous value and you want to program all of them

to get complete development and strength and function. But the people who say, you know why people say deadlifts are not a good hypertrophy? I'll tell you right now, while they say it's not a good hypertrophy exercise. Because they don't know how to plug it in their programming. When you do a body part split, where do you put deadlifts?

Well, we're doing back, but it's also hips and legs. I do legs the next day, so I don't, that's 100% what it is. They don't know how to program it in their workouts because it's not a pure back exercise. It involves the entire posterior chain, which includes the glutes and the hamstrings. That's the main reason.

Well, the other reason too is to the point of the very beginning of this episode where we talked about the learning curve of this. If I judged that deadlift based off the first three to six months, I would actually come back to you guys and say, oh, T-bar rows and binar over rows and dumbbell rows are way better. Why? Because it took me at least a month or two straight consistently lifting the deadlift. Before my technique was even good

Yeah, before I could even be kind of like the before that switch went off like oh this is how I fire this movement So kind of what Justin was talking about with the CNS then once that started to come together I was like okay now I got this now I can start to really load this thing and then that's where so it didn't really come on until Months eight nine ten to a year later did I really start to see the compounding effects of consistently deadlifting. But if you were to measure it, and this is why I don't like some when we talk about these six to 12 week studies, you take somebody who's a novice lifter,

and you say go do a deadlift, and they're going from never doing it before, or go do a T-Bar row, which is pretty easy to teach somebody how to do, and then let's measure in six weeks where you go in the, you'll probably gain more do a T-Bar row, which is pretty easy to teach somebody how to do, and then let's measure in six weeks, where are you going? You'll probably gain more from the T-Bar row. Yeah, and then the other thing, look, I'll tell you, this is,

you can't always tell who deadlifts, but you can often tell who doesn't deadlift. Like, when you see physique competitors or bodybuilders on stage, and they turn around, Adam and I have done this before, where we'll look and be like, oh, that guy doesn't deadlift, that person doesn't deadlift. It develops a thickness. So for people who are interested in just hypertrophy, it's an excellent exercise for developing depth of the back and especially the muscles that surround the spine. So when you see people with a really

well developed, nice looking back and and they have the back work kind of dips into where the spine is, that those are the muscles you really get really well with the deadlift. Lats, pull-ups are probably gonna hit the lats more than obviously then a deadlift, but it's just a phenomenal exercise, it's hard, it takes practice, but it's an excellent exercise

for hypertrophy, and if you don't believe me, look, here's a challenge. Implement dead lifts in your workout for a few months. Do them right for three or four months. At the very least, you're not gonna lose muscle. But I guarantee you, you'll probably end up gaining muscle and you'll be a little bit more. I feel like the reason why this gets popular on the internet

is because there's so many people that want this to be true. Yeah. And that's hard and we've avoided. And here, dude, I am, I was one of those people too. I wanted that to be true too. true. And and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and It's hard to learn the movement and it works your ass to do it, man. It's not easy. So I find the only reason why I get so much traction is because so many people want it to be true, so bad. It's like, okay, if you want to just do rows and the rest of your life and just, you can do it.

What a great exercise, nothing more row. No, and by the way, And you can, and you can build a good physique and never do those things. I had a good physique when I was 25. I didn't, I never weak ass physique. Well, I'll tell you this, if you do barbell squats, you know, you can get away with not deadlifting in the sense that you'll develop some good core strength,

some good lower back strength. If you don't do barbell squats and don't do dead lifts, it's not a good idea. If you build a lot of muscle on your body. That was me. I didn't squat or deadlift really all the way in my 20s. Yeah, you end up losing, especially if you build a lot of muscle and strength around a physique that doesn't squat,

that doesn't deadlift, there's a lot of functionality that you miss out on, not to mention the muscle that you miss out on. Next question is from Mason Burnt. What is the proper standing bar row form overhand or underhand? So they're referring to a barbell row. Yeah, yeah, just to the both. Supernative program.

Yeah, they're both. I remember now underhand was, nobody ever did underhand barbell rows until Doreng Yates made them popular. He was Mr. Olympia, I think six times. And he was known. He was the bodybuilder that brought in the current era of mass monsters. Before him, bodybuilders looked very different.

He goes from second place to first place and gains, I don't know, 15 pounds of muscle. There's those famous, maybe Andrew could put this in the video, black and white photos of Dorianates and it freaked everybody out what the hell is this guy doing? So then everybody wanted to work out like him. And one thing that he did was in underhand, Barbell Row, and the reason why he did it underhand

was because his training training methodology which he called Blooding Guts. I love the names that they do for these workouts. He got from Mike Menser who was a student under Arthur Jones and the Arthur Jones said to do back exercises with the supernated grip because it put your bicep in an advantageous position, allowed you to use more weight. So as the theory was, if you can use more weight, then it's a better position or whatever. Now, I don't agree with that necessarily. I think the elbow positioning. Yeah, and if you do an underhand grip,

you're gonna use more bicep than you do an overhand grip. If you do overhand grip, you're gonna get more brachial radialis muscle, which is this forearm muscle appear brachialis. Do you like to give that a break sometimes because it definitely gets lost stress? Yes, absolutely. Then you mentioned something, elbow position. Turning your hands activates the biceps more, but it also kind of helps people bring their elbows in with your toe.

Tucked elbows in. Yeah, which is fine. If you're over the top, your elbows are going to flare out. The further your elbows are away from the body, the more difficult the movement is going to be. You're probably going to be able to load it. But I mean, they both, they're both good. Yeah, they both at the back a little bit different. So I go back and forth between these. Yes. Yeah. So I think there, it's not one is right or one is wrong. Now the risk of, uh, of bicep injury is much higher with underhand back exercises.

In fact, during each tour, his bicep doing this particular exercise because it's just, it's a more vulnerable position. And if you get really strong with a barbell row, your bicep now is handling. Well, and you also will normally do more supernator, right? I can, I can row a lot more supernator. I do overhand, but that's because I practice overhand. Oh, really? So you can do more overhand than, oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, most people can do more supernated. And that's just because I've always practiced overhand, so I'm just much better that way. But they're both good, somewhat interchangeable,

although I would say, you get value from one that you might not get from the other one, because it's a little different, but they're both really good. The one that I teach most often is overhand. It's just an easier, more natural grip for some people than underhand. But there's nothing, they're both proper. They're just, I mean, I just so you know, too, this, this applies to even doing like a, a seated cable row. I used to play with this all

time. Sometimes I'll grab a straight bar and, you know, in row this way. And then other times, we'll go over the top and wide and row with my elbows up and hit more of the upper back. Like, so there's, there's ways to manipulate this. and it's not one is better than the other. I think they both have value for sure. Yeah, I do. And next question is from Alex SN Medic. What is better eating three bigger meals or multiple small meals throughout the day?

Yeah, we answered this a lot in the early days of our show. Whichever one was better for you. And really, that's the bottom line. But I do think it's important that we list out who is probably gonna do better with one versus the other. I'll start with the obvious, which is the small meals a day works better for people who eat a lot of calories.

If you're eating, yeah, if your metabolism is fast and you're eating 4,000 calories a day or 3,500 calories a day, you know, 3,500 calories a day. You know, 3,500 calorie meals, that can be really tough. You're probably better off eating 5,500 calorie meals doing it that way. And that's by the way why the small meals exist. Bodybuilders did it because they're reading so much food.

Eating three massive meals just became a chore. And just a little while. We've seen this sort of trend from the bodybuilding community kind of like trickle-in is like if they're doing it, that means that's the healthy way to do it. And it's like now, thankfully, you know, we kind of see behind the curtain of, you know, those practices and what else is entailed in that whole process. It's not very healthy. So, but it in terms of trying to bulk and get more calories in, this does make the most sense in terms of digesting it all and being able to retain it.

So I think there's another person that this works well, a client in mind that I would recommend this to too, is some clients have a really hard time with the long breaks between meals and they have tendency to snack or make bad food choices. So having a meal basically, if you have six meals in a day, you're eating every two hours basically. So you never really get that hungry or ever get those cravings. You're already getting ready to eat. You just eat and then it's like, oh my god, it's already two hours again.

I'm eating again because we do small portions that built out. It works really well for that client. If the client is like, if you know your guilty of grazing a lot on nuts and snacks and chips and things that you can get your hands on, if you work in an environment that you have access to all that all the time, I've had a lot of success with clients

that putting their six meals out like that small meals so that as soon as they have that, I wanna grab those nuts. It's like, oh, I'm supposed to eat in five minutes anyway, so I'll go get my meal and they eat their meals So I agreed it gives them less dead time yeah in between to be with boredom or thoughts or cravings I agree yeah, because sometimes if you only do three meals a lot of times it those three don't get separated by the perfect amount of hours And there's like this six hour gap between you know two of the meals and a lot of times This is when people start to make the bad decisions or they waited that long and now I said everything sounds good and it's like the first and it's convenient so they pull over so

what what has been debunked is the science that used to that people tried to use before that it's more thermogenic to do the six meals because you're stoking the fire six times what we realize now that if you eat eat 3,000 calories in three meals or 3,000 calories or six meals, the net thermogenic effect is exactly the same than the two. So there's no science to support that one is better than the other. This really comes down to a behavioral thing. As a coach and a trainer, what makes me make the decision on it, does a client eat one meal, two meals or six meals a day, are these types of things that we're talking about right now is based off of their behavior. Now at the moment, I will not now, actually, but recently, I was eating more small meals throughout the day. Now, I've always, not always, but before that, I would eat like three meals a day, no problem.

But then, you know, I've been building muscle, my metabolism has been speeding up, and it was just breakfast lunch and dinner got really big. Now, it wouldn't feel good afterwards. It was just too much. So I was doing the smaller meals. Well now I'm in the process of trying to cut. So now I'm trying to get leaner and it's really easy because all you gotta do is remove one meal.

I just gotta cut a meal out. So it makes it really easy. So really it's about personal preference. What fits your lifestyle better? Cause there's some people that don't wanna walk around with small meals throughout the day. And they're like, I don't wanna worry about eating. Eat a lot of prep. Ever two or three meals? Like I just wanna eat breakfast. And that don't want to walk around with small meals throughout the day. And they're like, I don't want to worry about eating a lot of prep. Ever two or three meals? Like I just want to eat breakfast.

And you don't have to. That's exactly, I mean, I'm the opposite, right? So I'm normally a six-meal-a-day type of guy because I was always eating so many calories. My calorie intake is so low right now. I eat two to three times. Yeah. Max. You know, sometimes there's been days only once. So you don't have to have, there's not like a rule on how many you have, but I think the most important that thing that you should take away from this conversation is really the understanding who you are. Are you the person who struggles with these long hour gaps

and you know you have a tendency to make bad choices? Well, then maybe you will benefit from more smaller meals, or maybe you're somebody that doesn't bother you at all, then fine, then only eat two or three meals. Yeah. Now, the other part too is people with gut issues, believe it or not, can fall in either category. Some people with gut issues do better with long breaks in between meals.

Other people do not do well with a long break in a large meal. They do better digesting a little at a time. So okay, more of the story. What works best for you is what your answer is going to be, whether it's three big meals or multiple small meals. Besides personal preference and lifestyle, there's no benefit one way or the other when it comes to muscle building or fat burning. Next question is from Grant Satter's Thwait. It seems like mind pump is anti-rest day. If

that's the case, how could someone structure a seven day per week training plan without sacrificing performance and gains? We're gonna be able to get the rest of it. I don't know your rest day. If you just make stuff up about us, I'll just put it in the screen. Yeah, I picked this because I was very confused. Yeah.

And I wanted to see if you guys knew where they were getting those days off. No, no. They're always like advocating for rest and recovery. Yeah, they're still. You could put this into two categories. You have active recovery and then you have like rest rest. Okay, so what's active recovery?

Active recovery is, I'm not doing a structured workout, but I'm doing something that involves some kind of movement. I'm walking or I'm hiking or I'm doing mobility or I'm doing stretching. Well, in our programs, I mean, we call it frequency builder. Yes. Basically, but we've literally programmed those in, so that way, you know, you're getting blood flow, you're getting that active recovery, where you're moving, but it's

not at an intense level. Yes. And then there's a rest day where you're pushing it to the limit, and you need to do nothing. Or maybe the value of that day is you do nothing because you hang out with your family, watch movies or you go on vacation, in which case a full unrest day is very valuable. But the problem is I think people think an off day

in order, well at least this was me. I thought an off day meant I need to do nothing in order to recover better. The reality was, unless I was extremely over trained, what helped me recover faster was to do some kind of light movement, not structure, but some kind of light movement. Well, yeah, I think this person probably doesn't own any of our programs because if you've ran anabolic or you've ran performance, we could both in there. Yeah, these, these, one, there's, yeah, there's a full rest day in both those programs. And

then in addition to that, the, you know, quote unquote, you know, active rest days are very minimal amount of work. I mean, uh, the mobility is like, uh, it's like doing yoga with movement. Like so it's very relaxing as well as, and then anabolic, the trigger sessions is, they're supposed to be low in time. Yeah. They're 10 minutes in there with, uh, their rubber bands and you're not supposed to get sore from it It's not that's not the idea. So really those are those we consider those rest days It's just like you said, so I came in the same camp when I was a young kid I used to think that rest day means I should sit and lay in the bed and do absolutely no your body recover Yeah, because well, I mean, you've been through the gauntlet like you competed like right multiple day

You know multiple times in one day and your body is just trash. Right. Maybe in that scenario. I mean, what I thought was that I was, you know, I was trying to let the muscle recover as fast as possible. That was my thought process. And so I didn't want to burn any extra calories.

I wanted any of those additional calories. You go to recovering that muscle. So I laid and did nothing. What we realized or what I understand now is that actually I'll build more muscle by activating that muscle, encouraging more blood flow and circulation, getting more nutrients and getting more movement in, but it doesn't have to be intense. It's not supposed to be like a training session. It's just you moving, moving throughout the day.

When people, when should I do nothing? Well, if it improves the quality of your life, so that's number one. Number two, if you're sick, or if you've trained so hard to the point where you're just full of inflammation pain and you're like, I need to sleep. I need to sleep and rest down. Otherwise, like stretching, walking.

I remember when I first experienced this, I remember as a kid, I read this stupid article about how Arnold used to do squats in the woods all day and he would bring it like a gallon of milk. I remember why I read this article, but because it was Arnold because I was young, I was like, this is the, I'm gonna do this.

I'm gonna do this. And I did, I took a barbell to the elementary school. It was like a half a mile away from my school, for my house, and I took two gallons of milk with me. And I went there and school, it was like a half a mile away from my school for my house, and I took two gallons of milk with me, and I went there, and my plan was, I'm like, mom, I'm gonna come home, I'll be home by four. And I got there like 10 am, and I was like, I'm gonna do squats all day, and I'm gonna drink milk,

all this like, I'm gonna get so jacked, right? Well, I didn't make it so four. I remember, I don't remember what time it was, I think it was like one, and maybe not, maybe noon, and it got to the point where I couldn't even do a body weight squat and walking my legs were like, and I was trying to walk home and I could barely make it home, dragging my barbell.

Luckily my dad came looking for me, picked me up in the truck, brought me home. Anyway, then I had to take the day off school the next day because I could get out of bed. Well, the next day my mom was like, you're not missing school, we're gonna stretch your legs out. And I thought that was the worst idea I ever. No, I got to let them rest and recover. And you know, my mom was like, you're not missing school, we're gonna stretch your legs out. And I thought that was the worst idea ever. No, I got to rest and recover.

And you know, my mom's like, I'm your mom, we're gonna do what I say. Well, anyway, she helped me stretch my legs out. And I remember being like, oh my God, my soreness is like way better just from stretching. So I kind of clicked a little bit there. But yeah, active recovery, you'll recover faster with active recovery than we'll just being like bedridden.

That's actually sending a signal to your body. It says break things down. Unless you're sick and you actually and you're so overtrained, you really need that. It's funny because I had surgery like in my abdomen. And I remember like Courtney's a nurse. So she's very like tough with me, but like you know, like very empathetic with everybody else.

So like it was literally the next day, I could have just stayed there for a couple of days, just recovering, like, oh God, it's just tearing me up. Had to get me up to walk up and down the aisles. It's the best way to heal and to recover is to just get that light movement. I did not want to do it, but it was the best thing. Well, you know, in hospitals, they'll put,

they put those, they're like these big wraps around your legs that pump one leg at a time or whatever. And it's to keep, for people who are bed-run, to keep blood flow, so they don't get blood clots. Yeah. So yeah, active recovery, I'd say 90% of the time, is what you want to do to recover. 10% of time, you probably should do nothing. Again, if it improves quality of life or like you're so hammered

or you're sick, that that's... So, I mean, the question they're asking, I guess in a roundabout way, we've answered it, but we didn't go specifically. They're saying, how could someone structure a seven day per week training program without sacrifice and performance? You do exactly what we have in those programs is. You have a foundational day, which is your hard-trained day, and then the following day right after that is always like one of these recovery days. And those look different in all of our programs based off of what the goals are, right? But if you were structuring one yourself, that's what it would look like. It's basically every other day is technically a rest day, but what we consider rest days aren't laying in

bed. They're doing mobility or doing trigger sessions, you know, or go for a hike, like those are all ways that you would do active recovery. Excellent. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help with almost any health or fitness goal.

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