Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2136: The Best Order to Go Through MAPS Programs, How to Fix Shoulder Pain, What to Do if You Are Experiencing Strange Weight or Hormone Fluctuations & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: DON’T BE NORMAL! (2:25) Mind Pump Recommends, Untold: Jake Paul the Problem Child on Netflix. (15:02) It’s crazy the POWER people can have over one another. (20:14) Why Justin may be quiet but is always observing. (33:29) Post reaction to one of the guy’s latest clips on social media. (42:01) “If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.” (46:54) The chicken nuggets from Butcher Box are children and adult approved! (51:14) The importance of healing your gut and going about it the right way. (52:38) Ned for your sleep health. (57:20) Shout out to Peter Attia. (59:20) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is it important to run your programs in the order you created them? (1:00:24)  #ListenerLive question #2 – Am I ready for MAPS Anabolic Advanced? (1:11:35) #ListenerLive question #3 - What would be the best way to keep the weight off if I want to reverse off Ozempic? (1:17:35) #ListenerLive question #4 – Any advice on how to fix my shoulder pain? (1:33:38) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! August Promotion: MAPS Anabolic Advanced 50% off! **Code AUGUST50 at checkout** Untold: Jake Paul the Problem Child - Netflix How to Become a Cult Leader: Everything You Need to Know ... - Netflix How to Win Friends & Influence People Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties – Book by Tom O’Neill Visit Vuori Clothing for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Mind Pump clip on Instagram - “They want us weak” Turn It Around: The Story of East Bay Punk Mind Pump #2035: Why Diets Always Fail With Dr. Will Cole Mind Pump #2125: Heal Like Wolverine: BPC 157 With Dr. William Seeds TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Visit State & Liberty for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code PUMP10 at checkout for 10% off** Visit Magic Spoon for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Visit Kreatures of Habit: Meal One for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MP25 at checkout** MAPS Symmetry MP Holistic Health Mind Pump #2110: Ozempic The Miracle Fat Loss Peptide: The Truth With Dr. William Seeds MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Peter Attia (@peterattiamd) Instagram Jake Paul (@jakepaul) Instagram Dr. Will Cole (@drwillcole) Instagram Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram Dr. William Seeds (@williamseedsmd) Instagram Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Alright, in today's episode, we answered live caller's questions, but this was after a 58 minute introductory conversation. What we talk about fitness, current events,

our lives, studies and much more. By the way, if you want to skip around to your favorite parts, check the show notes. We have timestamps there. Also, you want to be on an episode like this one, you want us to help you on air, email us your question, live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

The first one is butcher box. They deliver grass-fed meat, wild caught fish, heritage pork, and more to your door. So it's great prices, and it's the healthiest meat you can buy. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com-minepump. And on that link, you can get two packs of bacon for free for a year plus $20 off your first order.

This episode is also brought to you by Ned. This is hemp oil extract, very high in CBD, but also high in other cannabinoids and terpenes to help with things like inflammation, euphoria, sleep, anxiety. Go check them out. Go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-O-N-E-D.com forward slash mine pump. Use a code mine pump for 15% off. Also, we have a 50% off sale on our most powerful muscle building program that we

have. In fact, this is the first time we've put it on sale. Maps and a Bolic advanced, one of our newer programs, half off. If you're interested, go to anabolicadvanced.com and then use the code August 50 for that discount. Alright, here comes the show. Teacher time! And it's T-shirt time! Shit, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have five winners this week, two for Apple Podcasts, three for Facebook, the Apple Podcast

winners are Corey Silas and Tomas Rojas Jr. And for Facebook, we have Justin Haney, Ashley, Doctor and Ginger Deams. All five of you are winners. And the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that shirt right out to you. Don't be normal. Why? Because normal is unhealthy, normal is sick, normal is being in pain, normal is not liking

yourself. Don't be normal. What does that look like? Exercise, move more, eat whole natural foods, be weird, weird is good, normal is bad. I'm talking about this because. I like that message. That's the default. I like that message. People are poor health.

Somebody said that to me when I was, I think in junior high, and I don't remember what it was going on and I think I actually made the comment of the kid, right? I just want to be normal. Actually, somebody looked up the dictionary definition. Have you ever looked at the actual definition of it? It's not like you would, and you hear it and you're like, oh, I don't actually want to be normal. Oh, I don't know that. and actually somebody looked up the dictionary definition. Have you ever looked at the actual definition of it?

It's not like you would, and you hear it and you're like, oh, I don't actually want to be normal. I don't know that. Yeah, look at everybody else. Like you just blend in. Yeah, read what it is. And just tell me like the definition of it, it's like no one had ever read it.

There it is. Give it to me. Conforming to a standard usual typical or expected. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't know that for you to be so. Yeah, and so I think that, and it I don't know that for you to be said. Yeah.

And so I think that, and it really sent me on to the trajectory of the opposite direction, because I think as a little kid, I said that to somebody I wish I remember who it was, who's like, do you even know what normal is? Well, it's just, and then they write it to me. I'm like, oh, that's not me. I'm not conforming.

I'm not, look, here's why I said what I said. Because I find it interesting that if you, let's say eat healthy, you'll have a lot of friends and family that'll be like, God, that's like that's so like that's kind of weird or you work out regularly. Well, that's kind of extreme or you spend an hour and a half of the gym and people say that's extreme, but if you spend two hours scrolling social media, nobody says anything. So what does this tell you? Well, this tells you that the vast majority of people have fallen into the default, which is poor health.

And if you stand out by being healthy, you're not normal. And people are gonna call you out on it. And don't feel bad. Don't feel bad that you're in fact, if you're like everybody else, then you're probably doing something wrong right now. And that's just the truth.

Again, look at the data. Most people are sick and unhealthy. And mentally, physically, spiritually across the data. Most people are sick and unhealthy and mentally, physically, spiritually across the board. Most people are just not well. And so if you want to not be like that, you have to live in a way that's not the way that they are. Maverick. Yeah, it's interesting because even then you look at societal standards and how that's evolved and changed over each decade. It's pretty substantial. What you see now in terms of what people would consider normal.

I'm actually interested to see right now. What somebody would consider that's a normal person. Yeah, 100%. It's even the blood standards when you go to the doctor and they will test you for nutrients and hormones, stuff like that. If you ever look at those, the range is like really wild. And you're like, where does this range come from?

And how can way down here be similar to way up here in terms of let's say, I don't know, testosterone or vitamin D or whatever? Yeah, it's like, why not be more on the optimal side where you're feeling way better? Well, what they do is they take an average. Outside of average. They take an average of everybody that's getting these tests. Yeah.

And that becomes your, that becomes normal. But if you recognize that the average person has poor health, well, you probably, you probably don't want to be in the same range, right? You probably kind of want to be in a different range. That's why functional medicine practitioners, for example, use a different range. They're looking for what they would consider to be optimal,

not just what fits within what's considered normal. It's interesting that why we want to fit in or be like others when one of the most attractive qualities that someone can have is to be unique and to be different. Yet there's this draw to, there's a fear to that. I think what you really want is Is that what it is you think that's a good point just like there's a fear to that like if you go back and you remember the the number one fear is public speaking. Yes, and it's because

you you don't want to be ostracized by the group to tribe the you know everybody else to look at you and and push you aside and be cast out You know, everybody else to look at you and push you aside and be cast out. And so in terms of you being different and standing out and not kind of conforming and being a part of what everybody else is doing, that kind of puts you in that position where it's like, you could just be cast out. Yeah. So, and that's, it's very clear as to why it was a death sentence for most of human history and it still is.

Right. But if you're ostracized from your group, you're dead. It's very clear as to why it was a death sentence for most of human history. It still is. But if you're ostracized from your group, you're dead. You're not getting food, you're not getting shelter. If someone attacks, you're gone. You may get attacked by the group that ostracized you. So that's why it's the number one fear. It's the risk of speaking and lots of people, and lots of people not liking you,

it feels so overwhelmingly scary because of what the potential ramifications of that used to be at least, maybe not so much today, but what they used to be. So, the other thing too. You know what's interesting though is that, if you, so like let's say public speaking

or being different, weird, if you own it and you're confident with it, whatever it is, even like the failure to be good at speaking, but owning it and being confident or just or this weird, you know, look that you have with it or a scar or any, if you if you if you rock it with confidence, right, or a style that you're doing that nobody else is doing. If you do it with confidence, it tends to attract a lot of people. If you do it in fear, or you do it in shame,

or you do it like, I'm embarrassed, and then it does tend to ostracize you. It's funny how the same situation that somebody either failing, looking different, looking weird, if they own it and they're confident about it, that is me. And I am terrible at speaking or I am wearing these clothes

because I don't give a fuck. Or if you have literally flipping on its head. 100%. Yeah, 100%. Like you really have a choice on what direction that leads for your life is like, either it's gonna send down this path of, you know, victimhood and feeling sorry for yourself.

And why do I look this way? And why am I so terrible at this? Versus just like owning it, accepting it, and saying that this is what makes me unique. Yeah, that's exactly kind of to the point what I was gonna say, which is you just wanna feel accepted. You're more likely to be accepted if you're confident with how you are.

So like back to fitness, if you're just getting started and you start working out and you're doing it on a regular basis and you start eating healthier. And then you have friends and family that are like, God, you're so, that's so extreme. Like what are you doing? That's so weird, right? If you're not confident with it, like you could definitely fall back into old patterns or you'll only strengthen the fact that you are not doing great to the person who's saying that.

Now, if you're confident with it, doesn't bother you, like, oh yeah, it is a little weird. I know most people don't get up in the morning to work out, but I really enjoy this. And you just do it anyway. You actually start to attract people in your direction. You start to get, and this is the whole point of this is, if we have enough people who are confident and secure

with not being normal in the sense of being healthy, and the practices and behaviors that lead to good health, you'll attract more people to move in that direction. And you could potentially, we could potentially make it normal. How great would that be if normal was good health, not poor health. How amazing would that be?

And now what's funny about this, is another thing that got me thinking with this is that I trainers and coaches and gym owners, you'll hear some time say the following. In fact, this was said a lot when we used to manage gyms at 24 fitness, that what are we doing today? We're gonna save and change lives. Save and change lives, right?

Remember that? And sometimes people laugh at that, like come on, you train people, like they work out, right? Remember that? And sometimes people laugh at that, like, come on, you train people, like they work out, what do you mean? Nobody would say that to a doctor or surgeon who is somebody goes into the hospital because they got shot or they had a heart attack or the, you know, their diabetic coma

and the doctor saves their life. Oh, they definitely saved their life. But what would prevent them in many cases from getting to that place with the chronic illness examples I gave would be fitness and health, better practices. So it's like, you drive off the cliff and you crash and you go to the hospital because you're injured

and someone saves your life. What about the guy standing at the end of the road that says, hey, slow down. You're gonna drive off the cliff, go this way. That guy didn't save your life. So people in our space who are doing this for genuine authentic reasons, who are really helping people, you are saving lives, you're saving so many lives,

you have no idea how many things you're potentially preventing for these people from happening. It's crazy, I heard a statistic the other day that was crazy, you guys know Peter, Peter it's his, right? It was brilliant, brilliant, I, and he said, and he said the following, it's true, it's crazy because he put it in an amazing context. The difference between you and someone else having

diabetes so bad to the point where they lose digits, they lose fingers and limbs or have severe cognitive impairment. The difference between you and them is a teaspoon of sugar in their blood. That's it. A teaspoon of sugar in their blood is the difference between you and somebody who's losing fingers because they have such poor

ability to manage blood sugar. How crazy is that? Now, he went on to make the case that the most effective, powerful thing you can do with that is to build muscle because muscle is a storage vessel for sugar. So it's like you have a bigger storage vessel than you can take that sugar out of the blood

and you get stored in muscle. And plus muscle is insolent sensitive. But how crazy is the physical thing? Yeah, no, you got me, my brain's spinning right now. So what is the, what is the average person? How average healthy person have a total of sugar in their blood? If it's, when you fast, you want to be below 90,

essentially, is the number below 100 below 90 is what they'll say. No, I know, but from a, from a teaspoon perspective. Yeah, that's why I have no idea. I don't know if you've ever heard that before. Yeah. So it makes sense. Now he knows his shit, so I'm not gonna question it, because that's what he does. Yeah, that's why I have no idea. I don't know if you've never heard that before. So it makes sense. Now he knows his shit, so I'm not gonna question it because that's what he does.

Yeah, yeah. So I have no doubt that it's accurate. Right, right. But that's crazy, you know, just a teaspoon of sugar in your blood. Yeah, yeah, that's the same. That's the same. Yeah, that's crazy.

I know when you use that number, Doug, when they measure your blood sugar, what is the unit? It's like 90 or 100, but what is it measuring? Is it, can you look at an L's? Look up blood sugar? What is the unit? It's like 90 or 100, but what is it measuring? Is it? Can you look at an L's? Look up blood sugar readings and then see what it's, like is it per, like what's what is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? Uh, nanogram. Um, see what it says. Uh, I don't want to say anything that's done.

Let me do that. Okay. So I'll just throw out red and shit. So we got millimoles per liter or milligrams per desoleter. Milligrams per, okay. So I have no idea what that means exactly. Okay. So it says here a blood sugar level less than 140 is normal. A rating of more than 200 after two hours means you have diabetes. I mean, that's only, that's a, so it would be 60 milligrams per desoleter, right? 200 after two hours means you have diabetes.

I mean, that's only, so it would be 60 milligrams per desolateure, right, is the difference between diabetes and what they say is normal, although I think little lower is probably... I mean, that's such a small percentage, right? Yeah, and what would 60 milligrams per desolateure look like? Or what would even 100, right? Milligrams per desolateiter look like in the blood. And that's probably where you got it.

Yeah, fascinating. Was he on a podcast? Was he an internet? It was a clip on Instagram. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that I heard him say that. I'm so bummed that we reschedule him, right? So we were scheduled to see him in Austin, Texas

before we made the decision to go out to London. And so I was actually really looking forward to. Me too. Yeah, because people have been talking about him. I actually didn't know about him London and so I was actually really looking forward to me to yeah because so people have been talking about him I actually didn't know about him until just a couple of years ago I hadn't heard of him or didn't know what he was doing and somebody was I they were actually challenging something where we're a little different is on our conversation around cardio yeah I mean he's pointing to good data oh yeah no and the it's one of those situations where like it

happens to us many times when there's a really smart person that we like that communicates something different than we do. When you get us in the same room and we start talking, we still totally align. The difference is this, I'll tell you right away. Scientists look at data and research. Trainers and coaches look at data and research behavior. And how it, yeah, how it's applied in the real world and with behaviors

So the data may show that this works better But we may know that training lots of people and working with people like they're just not gonna do that right So let's make sure we communicate the thing that's gonna be most effective. Yeah, you know, that's that's the big that's the big difference Yeah, I agree. Yeah anyway, so go. Along the lines of what we how we started This podcast about being different so that you guys have to watch The new Jake Paul You know first of all I love it's probably one of my favorite Series on Netflix. I think Netflix you've talked about it before I feel like they're kind of like the

30 for 30 kind of the candy air process food version of streaming services. I think they just throw a lot of junk out there and people consume it. Every once in a while they have something that I think is pretty damn good. The untold series is like the 30 30 not quite. Yeah. That level I wouldn't I wouldn't quite put 30 for 30 is like that's the primo. Oh yeah, like incredible like. Interviews journalism interview way.

I don't know what, what you would, how you would categorize that comparing them, but I would say that Netflix's untold series of all these untold outlay, I mean, the Caitlin Jenner and they've done a bunch of other ones that were really, really good stories. And then the Jake Paul one popped up. And I thought it was fascinating

that they were even telling a story about him, but you know, shame on me, that's because I don't know. It's actually one of the highest paid athletes in the world. Yeah, crazy. I know I know a whole lot of about the background. I tell you what you guys will gain respect for him and it doesn't mean that I'm a huge fan of him. He was a person. Yeah, I like him as a person. So before everybody gets all freaking defensive and be like, Oh, he's a douchebag. Okay, whatever. Okay. Part of that is a character that he's strategically built. So, I mean, obviously, like he embraced being the heal

early on and totally, but when you find out, but he has an interesting childhood and their father is an interview. Also, you know what we've been talking about for a long time about him coming after Dana White? Dude, there's a guy behind all that with him who was a part of the building of the UFC and has inside track on all their stuff like that

and he doesn't do interviews with anybody else. He did an interview on this Netflix series. Oh wow. So he's been this behind the man scene for a really long time. And this has been like a strategic plan from the get, from the jump. Yeah, Jake Paul.

To disrupt the fight game. They're not going away. So remember when we were, we talked, right? And I made the speculation that this is gonna from the get from the jump. Jake Paul to disrupt the fight game. They're not going away. So remember when we were we talked, right? And I made the speculation that this is going to be organized. Just going to stand and stick around. That was the plan well before I ever even said it or thought it was to disrupt the fight

game. You know what it's interesting that I'm realizing about them is that, and this is a smart strategy. One of the smartest strategies I think you can make is for you to put something out in a way to where people underestimate you constantly. Because if they underestimate you constantly, then you always surprise people and you can always come out on top. Versus like having these huge like overestimations, then you can only disappoint people. And Jake Paul and his brother come across as do she not smart or whatever.

But if you look at what they've done with their business, you know who else did this very well? They're Kardashians. Kardashians come out, they're like, they're dumb. They're stupid. They're billionaires. You don't become a billionaire if you're stupid. You're just a fuck.

I actually, I was having this conversation with my kid. I said, I said, if you gave a thousand, because we were talking about billionaires, and he's like, oh yeah, but you know, who they started out with a million dollars alone and this and that. I said, if I gave 10,000 people a hundred million dollars, how many people, how many of them do you think

could turn that into a billion? Zero. Zero. To go from a hundred million to a billion, zero people out of 10,000 will be able to do it. That's how hard it is. Yeah. How rare. How rare. It's easier to will be able to do it. That's how hard it is. Yeah. And how rare.

How rare. It's easier to go from zero to 10 million. You know, and there's a bunch of people that are probably shaking their head right now thinking you're ridiculous, but anybody who's ever scaled anything to some significant value understands the difficulty and the rarity of just doing that.

Do you know how easy it is to go from zero to a million and how hard it is to go from a hundred million to 200 million or 300 million or a to go from a hundred million to 200 million or 300 million or a billion. People don't realize that. It's actually, if you look at the statistics and the data, so those guys are smart. They play the whole like underestimate me,

game really well. Yeah, no, they can add a no where. The business to build, you know what, at 18 years old, he bought a $7.5 million mansion. Wow. 18. Wow. That's how much they were ballin' that.5 million mansion. Wow. 18. Wow. That's how much they were balling that.

That was 18. I mean, he's in his mid to late 20s now, right? Or whatever. I don't know where he is now. Was that all from YouTube? Yeah. Wow. Well, I mean, yes.

So the word influencer came from them. So they were the first kids to go viral. He tells the story. It's a really cool story. Not to spoil or like share too much about the, go watch it, it's worth it. But he talks about when they first started giving advertising money to people on like YouTube,

they were like the first. And he goes, I remember I got paid $500 for some, I forgot what product it was to talk about with that. And he was like, oh my God. And then somebody else called them. And he said, he's on the phone with his dad and he's like, well, what do we want? What would we just say, say 5,000?

So he's like, yeah, that'll be 5,000. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, what the fuck? Like blue, they're like, yeah. Like, oh my God, they're gonna pay us $5,000. Like, it blew their mind. This thing, because they were on just on this mission to gain popularity through, you know through vines and YouTube video clips

and stuff like that just early on. And they were getting just a thousand video views and so that was a huge deal. You know, it's another good series on, did you start the cult series yet? No, I hate you. I know, I'm watching it. No, it's like so for me, that was made for you.

I'm on episode three right now. Okay, so there's a series like how to start a cult. I think it's cool. So what are they start with? Bro who are the ones that the Charles Manson they talk about heavens gate. They talk about oh I forgot his name. I watch all again Jim Jones. I've watched all these cult like every single documentary you think of every cult like this is all new for me. It's insane. The power that people can have over others. Charles Manson, I mean, I knew that story, but then they go in a more detail. Crazy fascinating how he took,

like middle-class, normal kids, girls, like normal, and turned them into murders. They actually went in and murdered for him because of the control that he had developed over him. So they get into his use of psychedelics. He did. That's actually the tipping point of him like really, because he was doing a lot of other manipulative stuff that wasn't that crazy before.

And then the psychedelics and stuff like that really took him over. Jim Jones thought, wow, because he's a book. Also Jim Jones, same thing psychedelics took him over the edge. Yeah, that's that, that was a crazy story that Jim Jones won. Yeah. I didn't know the full story. I know Jim Jones. So I knew he built Jones Town, took all of his followers there. Yeah.

And then people couldn't escape because he was like that. So okay. And then, and then I don't know this. A California Congress person flew there. Yep. Because people were writing letters to go check it out. And everything was full. And the film crew and everything.

Everybody was acting normal. And then he got a little letter that said, please help us escape. He confronted Jim Jones. And then something left. On the way out, Jim Jones had his people shot him. Machine gun everybody. And killed a congressperson.

I thought it was a place. I had no ways in cool aid. No, yeah, okay, well that happened later. But this was like when they started to kind of like really peer into what they're doing down there and then it was like this whole news Like crew that went with them to like kind of film everything and then they laughed and then they literally opened fire on them Dude as they were leaving the congressperson so the thing that I find interesting and you just touched on it was the psychedelic thing So it almost seems like you've got I mean and by the way, the part that felt a little weird is like, I think I recommend the book,

you know, how to win friends and influence people to like everybody as a core of the career. Yeah, it's like a cult leader like book. Like that is like, the book is one of the top books. One of the top books rented in prison. Wow. It's had a win, had a win and influence people by, what's his name?

Yeah, Dale Carnegie. Yeah, Dale Carnegie, thank you. Well, you know why? Because it's effective, you can use it for the bad. Yeah, right, sure. know why? Because it's effective. You could use it for bad. Sure. You can use it to reapplicate. You can wield it for good or bad, right? Right. So, uh, anyways, what the thing that the common thread that I thought I saw is like, these, these guys gain all this, this power and become great leaders, great as in not good people, but great as in like effective. And then the psychic, the drugs come in

and then that's when they go crazy. And what I think is that, knowing my experience with stuff like that, is I think you become a little delusional on who you are. And I think they start drinking their own Kool-Aid, believing they're shit that they've been selling to people to manipulate them for years. Then they go over the deep end

and become, I think they're a messiah and shit. You guys know the MK Ultra CIA connection to all that? Do they get in there? No. Of course they know. Yeah. Yeah, tell me why Justin. Yeah, there's a book on it, it's called Chaos.

And it kind of goes into that whole thing where they were paying attention to Manson. And I mean, I don't really know the whole background. I haven't read the book or anything, but I heard like there's a lot of like connections there of them being able to find him and like see how, you know, they actually like look and screen and find people that have that kind of charisma.

And then I'm pretty sure like he was part of the experiment. Oh, wow. Yeah, they definitely left that out. Well, so all these got, all these cult leaders start out with being extremely narcissistic, like to the unhealthy degree, right? Because there's a level of narcissism that's healthy, but it goes in the extreme where they really believe that they're so special. And then it gets amplified because then people start to buy their shit.

And so then it just confirms, I am this chosen person. I am special. And then it just spirals at a control. And it turns into something absolutely crazy. That's where I think that the drug part kicks in. Is it seemed like the timeline on all these crazies was like, they were, again, they were kind of leading, kind of manipulating, it was like whatever,

but not doing anything crazy. And then all of a sudden they get whatever but not doing anything crazy and then all of a sudden they get introduced to drugs and psychedelics and then all of a sudden start. There was this one dude I forgot his name I can't remember his name I only saw half the episode but he was he wanted to be a dancer and a model he's born in Venezuela maybe duck to look it up it was on how to start a cult maybe episode three the guys from Venezuela. And he was a failed artist, a failed, you know, actor. He thought he was so good looking. So then he went into porn, failed it porn, which is like, how do you feel?

I failed it. Failed it. Then he started this like, I'm a Jimmy. It's a wrong. I may go miss. I may go miss. Then he started this like this like new age spiritual movement. movement. And it was like, he had actors and artists and whatever become a part of his cult. And then they built him this amphitheater and they all had a new ballet.

And as you're watching this, you're like, damn dude, at some point, they completely lose critical thinking. Like I'm watching this, aren't you guys making you all do ballet as part of his new age religion, and you're all having to take care of him massage him all day?

Like, at what point? Isn't it weird even like the hot yoga guy? Yeah, I was just thinking of him. That's exactly like him. I remember telling somebody about that because they were dancing and raven about hot yoga and like trying to, like again, this is me like talking to parents and stuff

and like gymnastics or whatever. And like, they have no ideas. It just beats people who go to conspiracy theories and they're like, that's right. Man, it's hot today. It is. It's like that hot yoga guy. Well, dude, if you're gonna sit there and try and convince me, like, they have no idea about, like,

even what me being on the show and, like, talking about fitness and all that, I'm just like, I'm not gonna sit there and like, prostitutize to them about like what they should do. But, you know, some sitting there trying to listen is advice to me and to do hot yoga and all this. I'm like, you should really look into the guy that started this whole thing. It's really insightful.

You know, there's documentaries about it. It's just funny. Like, but again, in any sort of group setting, you just kind of see how this shapes, evolves, molds, some people that really take upon this power position and never really how that kind of leads into a lot of sexual stuff like abuse. It's always like that.

It's just like, especially if it's a male leader, obviously. It's just like, it's so crazy that this is like the playbook, and it's repeated. So do you think that they go into it like really wanting and seeking that, or do you think over time they kinda drink their cool, like, they're like, no, so what's happened, and this is a common theme

in all of them, is they believe to be special, then they kinda get confirmed. And then at some point, they realize that the means justify the ends, right? That's the right phrase, right? Dog means justify the ends, where they'll get their most ardent supporters. Yeah, the ends just by the end. Excuse me, the ends just by the first. Sorry. I'm going to say that wrong. They get their most ardent supporters to help them fake things because they're like, it's worth it because it's this cause that we have.

So in other words, there was a guy who did the faith healing and he did work for some reason on a couple people, which is probably just them getting excited. But then he didn't work on other people. So then he would get his most ardent supporters to come and take it for him. And they come up and he tell him you have lung cancer. And they'd be like, oh my God, and then he cured them

and they'd cough up like a tumor, it was like they already had in the mouth. They had a chicken bone there. So they're playing along because they all feel like they're apart like no no we got to do this to keep people. We'll save other people. Yeah like that guy, Jaime, whatever he would he would press on someone's forehead and then they would see a light while meditating. He had a little flashlight in his fucking hand that his assistant would hand you. Dude, okay. I saw the light. I was real, you know?

And they were helping them to trick all these people. Yeah, crazy. And at that point, it's so interesting. You go all the way through history and you look at magicians. And the whole thing is to be able to present this somewhat mysterious, I can't explain it kind of a phenomenon. to present this somewhat mysterious, I can't explain it kind of a phenomenon.

So then you just, you get that hook. And then it's like, this is power now in your pocket. And you realize how you can like steer and manipulate people just based off of like, whether it's a trickery or whether it's like charisma or whatever it is, like you're gonna find that sort of button. And it's just so interesting for me to see how groups of people can just be swayed

and manipulated. Have you guys ever been in person and like experienced something like that? Like hypnotism and all that? And anything like that where you see like the whole group just get bought in like weird shit like that. I mean, I grew up going to, I mean, there were some churches you said that.

Yeah, I mean, we went to like, I don't know, eight, nine different denominations as a kid, right? And my parents like bouncing from one to the next. And we were at this, this, this, a, chrismatic church for, which is like a Pentecostal type of church,

which we've also done. And I remember being a kid in like, I saw, you know, what they call slain in the spirit where they threw like this purple towel Or the head and then push them and they fall over and start like shaking convulsions people would start speaking in tongues And someone on the other side of the church would translate what they were saying and you would see it all it was wild This weird group thing and it was like I experienced that one time like we were a part of this church for like two years in my life And so and now what were you thinking the whole time? I knew, like, that's what's so crazy

when I was that little, like I knew better. I mean, I watched it influence my parents. My, my, my, I heard my mom speaking tongues, like, like six months later, like, where did you, well, you think you have the gift now too? Like, come on, get out of here with that. It was so obvious to me that it was bullshit. And when you see it first, I mean,

obviously, it's what tainted and disrupted my relationship with God and religion and everything like that was seeing that as a kid and being like, same, yeah, this is crazy. Like you know, crazy. You know what's sad is that when it comes to this miraculous type of things, they happen every day. It's just we, we choose to ignore them or not acknowledge them. Like when you become a parent and you have children, and everybody takes over granted because you know, whatever, there's a miracle. There's miraculous things that happen.

Like the connection you have for your kid, like if you really think about it, like what is that coming from? This is insane. Like this isn't, this is stronger than anything I've ever could ever potentially comprehend. Like that's a miracle that people are looking for the weird radical, you know, crazy. Yeah, or they want to believe that they can harness it themselves, right? There's this narcissistic drive to, you know, you know, think that you were one of

the chosen ones. And in a, in a, in a way, even though my mom or my family wasn't trying to get up there and be the pastor, there's a part of them that wanted to be so, but a part of it so much that not also they're doing it. But I mean, I think back, as a kid, you're scared and confused. You don't know what's going on. As a adult, I think back to them, like, oh my god, how hilarious is that? That this person, like, starts speaking like I know where that someone over here translates. I actually did experience this once.

I did. I went years ago, years ago, this is when I was an atheist. We went to his church like show and it was like before Easter or something like that. And it was for all families. It was a big ass theater. Okay, I'm like I say too much, it's around here. Big-ass theater. And it was a show to show the passions of Christ when he gets beat and whipped and whatever.

Now remember, this is like all family, like little kids, everybody. It was the most gory, violent thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Like, bro, he's getting whipped and with the cat on nine tails and blood and his skin gives, I mean, it looked like, like they spent a lot of money. Like skin is tearing off his flesh and he's getting beaten. And there's little kids there watching. The milgips and my kids were there.

And I look over at my kids and they're like, just like, what are we watching? I remember I covered their eyes. And we left and I got a huge argument with the people that brought us. I'm like, what are we watching? I remember I covered their eyes, and we left and I got a huge argument with the people that brought us. I'm like, what makes you think this okay to take a little kid? Just be, but it really happens.

So did the Holocaust, so did a lot of shit. Yeah, yeah. This is inappropriate. I said, the only reason why this gets passed is because it's been cloaked in under... Oh, God, talk about like a... I was so mad. Talk about really confirming your atheism at that point.

You did. I bet that point. You did. I bet it did. It did. Push me the opposite. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure it did. I'm sure it did. It would do the same thing.

It's crazy. I know. I got to ask you a question, Justin, beyond. Yeah. Is part of the reason why you're so interested in cult leaders and stuff in like their methods? Is it because of Adam and I? I'm always keeping you guys in check. I have a little bit of the gift.

On the long those lines, I want to know at what point in our relationship, because we go so far back that I finally, did I pass the test, right? Because do you remember? Because Justin is your like, he's on the, he's a harsh critic. I'm very skeptical. He just barely started liking Sal,

we're on your answer. It took me seven and a half years to get him to like me. I don't know, it wasn't very skeptical. He just barely started liking Sal. We're on your answer. It took me seven and a half years to get into like, we, I don't know. It wasn't very long. I mean, it was probably a year, you know, like, I just, wow. I was waiting out.

I work for you for a year, for that, like, trust your audience. You know, I don't know. Like, that's the, I'm always reading people. That's what people understand. Like, maybe I don't say a lot, but I'm reading. You know, and I understand like,

that's true. What you're doing, like, how you deal with people, I watch you, and that's true. I mean, like, I don't say a lot, but I'm very observant, and I'm listening. And so it's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why that is. I think too, because of our backgrounds,

and like, being in a church setting, and like, all these things. And like, I had nothing better to do. And so I don't know why that is. I think too because of our backgrounds and like being in a church setting and like all these things. And like I had nothing better to do. And so I was just really interested in people. And then I would look and see like who was on stage, you know, what kind of music they're playing, like how people are reacting to it, like throwing their hands up, like, and I was always like very interested in like why,

like why is that affecting them? And then I would see that same sort of like delivery from somebody else like a politician or I'd see that same delivery from the teacher. And so I was just kind of like connecting dots with that. I don't know why. I've just always been really interested in that. And like, too, like how people perceive me, you know,

and I liked being very, I guess, more of like wallpaper, if you will, sometimes. Yeah, very unassuming, very much like, ah, so they could just be themselves in front of me. And so that way I'd know who you are. Oh, I think the, the, wow, we're somewhere in that area, right? Like I love to observe people and, and I think the true test for me is that when the,

the first opportunity that arises for them to do something that I know would even be hard for me to like pass on, but they choose to do the right thing or the selfless thing. Yeah. Right. That's always always the thing for me. It's like, I'm attracted to people that have that charisma and have those leadership qualities. And I'm observing and I'm watching that a moment will always come where.

What kind of choice are you gonna make for me? Yeah, 100%. Right. And I know, that would be hard. Part of me, I would be tempted to wanna do that or what that. And so I know that's like one of those moments. 100%.

And then what will tip them over and if somebody I really like and respect is like, they take the harder choice. Yeah, I'm gonna choose the harder path because it's the right path, it's the selfless path. And it's like, ooh, okay, that person has to care. See, somebody who turns down money to do the right thing, that's a big one for me. Yeah.

If somebody speaks poorly about other people, when they're not around. Yes, so if someone's talking in gossiping about someone else to me, then I know you're gonna do that about me. Yeah, right. Or, but on the flip side, this is a great character. This is a great, when I see someone has good character,

where they don't want to gossip. But like, well, you know, they're not here to defend themselves or, you know, I used to work for this person. So I don't necessarily want to say certain things because I respect them. Like when someone says that to me, I'm like, okay, that's so. Or they defend someone who you mutually don't like. Yes. Right.

So let's say we both agree that we don't want to do that. But then they still come to the defense, well, you know, maybe that we, we don't know what he went through that day or we miss it interpreted. And it is real interpreted and is real mean like I like to give people the bit of it. So if you have that character too, or you have somebody you're with, you mutually dislike somebody else, but then you have the type of character where you'll still stand up for even so when you don't like. Totally. Yeah, no, full disclosure, Justin's my grounding barometer for sure.

100%. 100%. Well, I'm not, I mean, he's you, you're the most accurate. Yeah, well, I have to admit too, I'm attracted to like charisma, right? Just like anybody else. And so it's like, I, and I think it's really just a self-check for me of like, you know,

well, you know, what's their character? You know, and like, can I, can I like allow myself to be like drawn to that person or not? You know, because it's like, it's a very powerful thing, like some people are really good. It's really good with their delivery and their articulation and, and then you see everybody around them just like mesmerize, you know, and I just, to me, it's, it's, I try not to get mesmerized, but then I understand like, I'm like, there's a pull there and like, why is that? Okay, so here's a test of your how your level of self-awareness now.

If you know that about yourself, we all agree that this is a strength. I'm a firm believer in your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. And so where does this bite you in the ass because of like you have this ability and you're really good at it? Where does it hold you back sometimes? Ooh, yeah, I guess not speaking my mind right away.

I think that's one thing is like I hold on to opinions and thoughts, which is taking me a long time to develop opinions, let me be honest. Like I haven't been able to articulate and express myself for years. And it's only now like through the podcast, it's really bringing it out. But I had a lot to say that I didn't say.

And that's been like a real Achilles feel for me. Because then I don't get what I want. Is that where it ain't real time? That's because so hilarious stuff, right? It's easy for us to know and point out the things that like, oh yeah, I know I'm good at that. Everyone's told me I'm good at that. It's so hilarious. It's so much, you know. It's easy for us to know and point out the things that like, oh, yeah, I know I'm good at that. Everyone's told me I'm good at that. It's served me.

They speak it of Justin. Yeah, I bring up. Can I talk about it? I thought I was never commercial. No, no, yes. Can I talk about it? Oh, I don't care. It was fun, dude.

Can I talk about it? It's stupid, but yeah. I don't care. Okay, here's why I want to talk about it because of the way that I guess we support each other. It's kind of a guy thing, but it's hilarious to me. So just, there was a, a fury commercial that's out. And it's Justin talking about, you know, the shirts he likes from there, whatever.

And some douchebag commentator to you, something like, well, it fits him because, or it fits me because I work out unlike that guy, like talking shit. Yeah. So Justin sends us a screenshot of me. He's like, this asshole or something like that, right? So now, normally when you support someone, you say things like, no, you look good, man. You fit whatever.

Dude, you're strong guy. You're a buff guy. Don't worry about this. What did I say? Man, fat people are so sensitive. And he was so happy I said that. Oh, it's dying. I was like, yeah, stupid. Because if I did the opposite, you would have been really's dying. I was like, yeah, it's stupid.

Cause if I did the opposite, you would have been really upset if I was like, it's alright, just, you're fine with balloons. It's so funny. It's not, isn't that the irony though? It's always like when you're a bad mood, like you have like things going on that you're like, oh, there's friction.

Like I'm just sitting there kind of stewing over like other stuff and then, you know, that pops up. It's like one comment and it's just like literally like talking shit. It's so true though and it's just like literally like, talking shit. It's so true though, like on the heels of the other conversation we had, people would never say that in the real world. That fool would never say it to my face. Nobody would say that to me.

Never did. Well, we're also now. I mean, there was a part, there was a time in this journey of like building this thing that I actually thought man are we going to get so lucky that we build this big thing and it like and we don't really get a lot of hate like is that part like everybody else I know that it's like huge like they have almost as much hate as they have a lot like equal parts. Yeah and I mean and the confirmation that was like watching the Jake Paul thing and the look I mean boy

they're hated as much as their love. You know what I'm saying? We can almost know, hey, we don't. And it's really more recent than we have in a long time. And I just think that's still so tiny. It is. It's so tiny I can remember. Which is why I always like when those moments happen,

I try and like calm the fuck down. Like it's inevitable. You know what I'm saying? You're reaching millions of people. Like you're gonna, you're not gonna, they're all gonna like you. The likelihood of you, I mean, think about, the biggest perspective I ever had was when I was in that

arena when we were first coming up. And I remember we had just seen the stat, this was back when we were only getting like 60,000 downloads in episode, which was like a huge milestone obviously back then. And I was like, dude, that is like two of these basketball arenas, like all in here.

The likelihood that all of those people are listening to me and all of them like me, like no, it's so not likeable. No, it's impossible, right? There's gotta be a lot of them in your favor. And so, you know, and people are loud and that would never say something to you in person, they're gonna say shit online, so it's like the announcement.

Speaking of which, interesting, right? We put up that clip yesterday, it was clip from our episode the one about going to war Mm-hmm, and how this is being analyzed and all that it's flying right? It's definitely striking a nerve What's weird is the comments underneath it? All Overwhelmingly positive there are a few negative comments all And all the negative comments from guys. Dude's, from guys.

Is that depressing? It's sad because good health is being attacked. Men in particular are being attacked with this message. Because it's about being toxic masculinity. It's about muscles are due, she strength is whatever. Men need to be, and it's funny that there was like a few guys on there that were giving us a little negativity or whatever.

Don't go political, it's like, stop political. They stepped into our space. They started demonizing fitness. That's when we speak up. We're trying to point out that this is wrong. This is a wrong message. This is not something that people need to hear receive. No. It's like, we're going to say something about it.

And that's not out of fear. And somebody's made a comment about, you know, paid attention, all these scenes of being in fear. Not in fear, it's confronting it. Yes. There's, you have to confront it. Otherwise, it persists with better information. With better information.

And the three speeches about. All the women, female people commenting overwhelmingly positive. And I thought about that. So this is interesting because the clip itself is almost catering more or aim more towards men non-accident, but it kind of is, right? Yeah, you have all these female commenters who are hyper-positive, and a few guys that weren't.

I'm like, why is that? That's kind of weird, interesting thing. And then I realized, I think women are super really sick and tired of weak men. Yeah. I do. I think women are super really sick and tired of weak men. Yeah. I do. I don't blame them. I think women are the ones that are sitting back going,

okay, this is not cool. That's not the kind of guy I want. I don't want my sons grow up this way. Definitely not attractive. No. And they were the ones that were most positive. It was really wild. Yeah, I mean, I think the dudes were,

some of them were like the sneaky, what does he would call them, cuddle fish? Cuddle fish. Yeah, when they think they're gonna come out virtuous, I don't know. I keep waiting for people to use as a hatched. Well, I, you know, just at a curiosity, I always click on bios.

I just want to see, you know. But why is it, who is this person? Yeah, who is this person, right? And the, the two thing, and this, again, this is pure observation. This is not me, like, making shit up, like, literally go look for yourself. 80% of the guys that made those comments,

private profiles with he, him in the bio. No pronouns underneath, yeah. Pronouns in there, in the way, just crazy that those were the people, those are the guys that had a problem with that message. All the rest were on board with it. And most all, if maybe, I think I saw maybe one or two girls, and even the two girls that made comments on it,

they weren't necessarily negative. They thought, I don't really see much of that. It was like that. It wasn't like, this is stupid. Or one of these dudes. It's so interesting to me, because obviously social media does this. You are celebrated for your either opinions

or what you say is good or wrong, not for what you actually do, because nobody can see what you do. So it's all about what you say you do or what you say is good or wrong not for what you actually do because nobody can see what you do So it's all about what you say you do or what you say you care about right? That's what it's the term virtue signaling comes from it reminds I was thinking about this the day Do you know who wears? T shirts that say I do jujitsu I'm a fighter or I look you know what when people first start when they first start training They're the ones that want to show everybody. Yeah wave the flag to everybody the guys and girls that have been training for years They don't wear shirts that say that shit. You don't care about that kind of stuff

So it's almost like it's this insecure like let me put this out to people are secure and confident. They don't Need to proclaim it so often. Well, I also find it interesting that you talking about all that stuff and making a stand of this is wrong and the importance of health. How there was a good majority of those people that spoke up that made it a political thing. It's like, if you didn't mention Democrat, Republican, conservative, progressive, you didn't use any language like that whatsoever. It's not a political thing. No, it's not at all. It's a health thing. That's what I'm saying.

And it's somebody in about people making a really bad observation around exercise and working out and lifting weights. And it's us coming to the defense of that and saying, no, we're not gonna let you spread bullshit like this. This is really how it affects people. This is really how powerful. This is really how good it is. And somehow that message is, is, is, listen, we didn't start the war. It's a war on health is what's happening right now. We're just now speaking out. That's what we're defending it.

We're defending it. That's, that's really what it's, what it's all about. It's like, listen, you now are stepping into our space. We've been trying to help people the right way for decades. You're, you're, you're an idiot if you think I'm going to sit here and not say anything. And if Now we're stepping into our space. We've been trying to help people the right way for decades. You're an idiot if you think I'm gonna sit here and not say anything. And if you get closer, it's not just gonna be my words. So our sandbox and kickstand in our face. Well, that's the next thing we're writing.

I was actually watching a documentary too, and it was actually on YouTube, I believe. But it was about like East Bay Punk and how the whole scene kind of started up. And so you guys are familiar with Green Day and Rancid. on YouTube, I believe, but it was about like East Bay punk and how the whole scene kind of started up. And so you guys are familiar with Green Day and Rancid and you know, a lot of those like bigger name bands, but it kind of got through a lot of like these other like underground bands and then how this one place in the East Bay was this sort of like Haven for kids

that like were just, you know, off-ball kids. They had nowhere to go. And they just like, the owner was part of like Operation Ivy Which was a big band and it back in the day and wanted to create a venue so like these kids could go It was all ages like because punk was not accessible to younger kids It was always just like 21 and over and then it kind of bars bars and it became one of these things where it became like More aggressive more violent. So you'd get like a whole skinhead kind of movement behind it. And you know, these skinheads were like a real problem.

And so this place became sort of like, you know, it was, there's no races and there's no, you know, sexes like, you know, like if you're gay, or you're whatever, like this is like your safe place, and it was like, you know, all these kids were just hanging out and the weird kids, the freaks, whatever. And it was a cool place. It was like it's own little oasis.

Was it all connected through music? And it's all connected for the music, and it created this really cool, it fostered a really cool environment for creativity. And so this is where green day, and they kind of merged out of this one club. And so I bring this up, is because there was, they were getting attacked

by these other skinhead groups that were like, and this isn't the Bay Area. So people think that it's super, because a Berkeley is very liberal. It's very like, it brought in a lot of like hippie, kind of thoughts and all that. Like if you go a little further across the Bay, there's like some pocket areas where there's like

hillbilly and like rural, like racist skinhead, like communities. And so they would attack and bash and, and you know, bash people, beat them up and all this stuff and they go to these shows and beat them up and like drive these trucks and beat, and so this is like a real problem. So they actually like drove to,

they found this place and they were like, they started to come and sit in on all these shows and just like, they're just tyrants, you know, they're coming in and like, you know, beating up kids and all this stuff. And so they just decided like, they were gonna fight back. And so they fought back and, you know, beat their asses and then they laughed and they stopped messing with them.

But it's just like, you gotta hold, you gotta, if it's something that's like, you hold sake, right? I look at this as a gem, right? This is like if it's something that's like, you hold sacred, right? Like, I look at this as a gem, right? This is like, it's all inclusive. Like, everybody's welcome. Everybody's trying to grow and improve. And, you know, and it's getting attacked now.

Like, this is how I look at it. And it's like, totally. It's for it to be able to foster and grow and be a positive force. It's like, you got to push off all this negative bullshit. Listen, if you don't, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything, right? So it's more about standing up than it is attacking

or putting down. By the way, to cover, just to touch on the way, some people are saying it's political, it's because the tactics that are being used, some of the tactics, I should say, that are being used to demonize fitness or to attach it to very unsavory

Verbige or groups. So when you say white supremacist for example Like everybody's like I hate that. I don't want to be a part of that right? So that's why you'll see articles that will say tied to white supremacist far right extremists far right extremists in far right extremists, far right extremists in society is more people are like, ooh, I don't wanna be a part of that versus far left. If I say far left, a lot of people are like, what's that? But if I say far right extremists,

everybody's like skinheads, supremacists. So what they're doing with fitness is they're publishing articles and just using verbiage that where people would just read the headline and get turned off right away. So that's why some people are associating with politics, because it says far right extremists, more than it would say, let's say far left extremists or something else. Right? That's the whole reason. Anyway, speaking of kids, I had to go on my butcher box

and triple my order of the gluten free nuggets. Yes. I'm eating them all. I'm eating all the gluten-free. Are you, did you order me? Yeah, yeah, no, I love them. I mean, of course you guys knew that. Do most chicken nuggets, I don't know. Are most chicken nuggets full of gluten?

Is that like, comp- Yeah, breaded. They all are. Yeah, breaded. So what are they using to not be breaded, you know? I think it's probably rice flour, corn flour. Yeah. But they're like crispy and they're good.

Oh, they're better than any other chicken. So I'm a grown man and not to make fun of Justin, but I don't eat nuggets. By the way, that's fake. We made that story of just the same nuggets too. I just didn't. Yeah, I own the cheese, I own the nuggets. Like I have to leave it.

But I'm working on a deal right now with heaven. I have an elementary school kid diet preference. You've never full that second. You've never used boxes. You've never ordered chicken nuggets when we've got out to eat. We just created that and it just became a thing. But anyway, I would prefer that to sushi. That's true. But anyway, I haven't had just nuggets as a meal.

It's as an adult forever. That's what I'm doing with these. I actually haven't done that. And I'm only like 15 of them. Yeah. And it's like protein, it's really good, and gluten free. So. Well, they just bumped our box size up, so I might have to do the same thing.

That's another reason why I'm talking about it. Yeah. Cause right now I get yelled at from Katrina if I eat it. That's his staple meal for him. He eats those chicken nuggets on the rail, or it's his favorite thing. Dude, speaking of, like, cause you talk about gluten and maybe think about gut health and stuff. Bro, this is how big of a deal,

and people who dealt with this understand, but people who've never dealt with this, don't get this. It's such a big deal, gut health is such a big deal, and makes such a huge impact on your body's performance, and health, and muscle, and fat loss. Like, it's insane. So I dealt with gut issues on and off for years and years and years, decades. And I treated myself for SIBO effectively, which got me about 85% of the way there.

So my gut got back to about 85% of normal, which was huge for me. You guys know this for the first six years of the podcast. It was always a continual struggle. I couldn't eat more than a certain amount. Couldn't eat certain foods. If I, in my gut would go off, it was always a continual struggle. I couldn't eat more than a certain amount. Couldn't eat certain foods. If I, in my gut would go off, it would last weeks. This is terrible back and forth battle. Fixed the SIBO, got me about 85% of the way there.

But then I would always get this kind of reoccurring, would have to treat myself again. And then we had, I can't remember who we had on the show. It was Gwyneth Peltro's functional medicine pack. I feel so bad, maybe Doug can find his name. We had him on the show, great guy, love him. I feel embarrassed out of Fras name, so we'll get it. And he said that when you fix SIBO,

you have to wait afterwards to allow your gut to heal. Cause the SIBO's gone, but you have a mucus aligning in the gut, you have the gut wall itself that's still probably inflamed. So it's like, okay, you took out the stick out of your leg, you're not cured, you have to wait for everything to heal. And that's why you end up getting seabow again, and that's why maybe you're not 100% yet.

Or what's the name? Dr. Will Cole. There you go, thank you so much. Great guy. Love his content. So anyway, so that was like, oh shit, that really hit home. Once I effectively treat seabow, if it comes back, I really need to look at how I can

heal my gut. And part of that is, don't go too crazy with the food, treat myself like I did when I had C-Boh. The other part of it was I went on oral BPC157 KPV. So this is, these are peptides. And this is the pill form. Pill form. So when you take oral BPC157, it helps speed up the regeneration and healing of the gut, just like it does when you take oral BPC157, it helps speed up the regeneration, healing, and the gut, just like it does when you inject it into an injury, okay? KPV, it works differently, but similarly in the sense that it speeds up healing, it also has some anti-microbial effects, okay? When did you get the KPV, and why didn't she pass that to me? No, it's combined.

Oh, it's in it, okay. Didn't you get it? Yeah, I didn't know that was in there, if you know me. They didn't change the name, this's combined. In the poll. Oh, it's in it, okay. Didn't you get it? Yeah, I didn't know that I was in there. If you know me. I didn't. They didn't change the name. This is weird. It's a three-pios in there as well. That's a little stupid.

Anyway, I've been taking it, right? Didn't notice much, but a week into it, oh, I think I'm noticing something. Well, I think I'm like 30 or 40 days in. Yeah. I'm like, okay, like 95% normal. Like, I mean, my gut, it's weird. Like I mean my gut, it's weird. Like I don't, it's almost like it was,

not quite, but almost like it was before the shit at the fan. Wow, my gut health. And now what's the result of that? I'm absorbing what I'm eating. I'm literally like, I feel anabolic, like I haven't felt in years and years and years. Why is it that I could push the calories?

And I don't hurt myself. I'm gonna blow it, I'm gonna get even. Wild, right? That's exciting. I know. You know, you touched on something I think such an important thing to, I just want to pick you back off because I've seen this happen with many clients, with family and friends that have struggled with gut health.

And they do exactly what you said where they get some, they go to a functional practitioner, they get like, oh, you need to stay away from these foods or whatever. And then they eliminate the foods, they do start filling better. So then they reintroduce and then, and they get away with it, right?

They reintroduce and it's like, oh my God, I'm out of skin. And then they do it two or three times. And then it goes back to like, abusing it or having it in their diet all the time. And then it comes back. And then they chalk it up as that didn't work. No. And it's like, no, yes it did or yes it was.

You know what I'm saying, but you can't, it's not a green light for you to come back and let it back into your diet every day again. No, it's like walking around with the rock in your shoe. So your foot gets cut and you're bleeding, then you take your shoe off, you take the rock out and you're like, wow, I feel so much better. So now I'm gonna go running.

But the wound never fully healed. So you're not allowing yourself to heal. The problem out, but you didn't actually let yourself heal. That part, that was mind blowing for me when I first, when I heard Dr. Will Coles say that. And then the BPC and the KPV combo speeds that up. Yeah. It's what's happening.

Like this is 30 days later, and I'm like, this is weird. I haven't felt like this in 15 years. Wow. At least. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm going to keep going. I hope to get there because yeah, I've just been going through the treatment to like the SIBO stuff. So just started and then I want to treat, you know, the problem and then, you know, I'm also in conjunction with that deal to be. That's awesome. Speaking of inflammatory stuff, you were telling me about Courtney's mom using Ned. That was, yeah. What was that for?

So, she was having trouble sleeping and so she actually had melanoma cancer and had treatments for that. And at night, she was getting these really bad muscle cramps. And so, kept waking her up and was like, she asked Courtney if we had anything to help with sleep or anything with that. So I gave her the the Ned sleep and then also like the 1500 milligram Ned CBD. Was it the capsules or was it the oil? It was the capsules.

Yeah. And so it and also like the mellow as well, but she just started with the oil. It was the capsules. Yeah. And so it also like the mellow as well, but she just started with the sleep and it was just like, oh my God, I didn't get up once. Like she was able to sleep to the night and then continue this. And then it's just been really helpful and restorative

for her to be able to get sleep finally and start healing. So that was great. You do the capsules now over the dropper, huh? You don't it's the same thing. It's just easier. You don't taste it because the oil you put it under your tongue, you taste it. Yeah.

I think the under the tongue would be faster now because of supposedly I haven't noticed a difference. I know I'm not now Jessica. Okay. Jessica likes the oil better. She says it works better for her, but I just do the capsules. I really ever since the mellow ended up working so well for me, I really ever used the Ned sleep.

You had a magnesium deficiency for sure. 100%. I mean, it's like night and day. And of course, I'm terrible about being consistent like you are with any supplement, no matter how bad I need it or not. And because I have streaks of inconsistency with taking it and then getting back,

it's like always so obvious to me. It's like, oh my God, like I have to do this. Like I have to, I'm definitely deficient in magnesium and it for sure shows up in how well I sleep. That's, yeah, it's unbelievable. Awesome. All right, so today's shout out, let's do Peter Etia since I talked about him earlier.

So you find him on Instagram at Peter Etia MD, one of the smartest people in the space when it comes to help. Great information. Does he have his own podcast? Does he just do other shows? I know he was on Joe Rogan. I've only seen him on other podcasts.

I believe he has his own. Okay. He's been an interviewer or an interviewer, he quite a bit. Being fit and muscular is kind of cool, but you know what it sucks when you wanna buy nice clothes, they never fit properly. Well, that is until now.

There's a company called State and Liberty that makes tailored feeling, suits and shirts and pants for people with muscle. In fact, I'm wearing one of the shirts right now, off the rack. I have suits off the rack that fit me beautifully. So it's made for guys, white shoulders, small waist and big arms.

Basically, if you're fit and muscular and you wanna look nice, go to this company, it will fit you the best. State and Liberty. Go to mpstateandliberty.com and on that link, you'll get 10% off. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Jesse from New Hampshire.

Jesse, what's going on, man? How can we help you? What's up? Oh no, fellas. Not much, dude. Nice. All right, so I'm just gonna jump right into it. I'm currently on phase three of Maps Antibolic.

By the way, it's a great program. I love it. It was all I had since then, I've been asked for it's a great program. I love it. It was a little hesitant after us, but I've really gotten into it. It's been awesome. So my question is, I was planning on going to a symmetry next. But the more I listen to you guys, the more I really learn that you wrote them in order. I don't know if it's like a dead set order that you have to run it or the way that it goes. I've only been working out since October of 2022.

So I'm relatively new to the whole gym lifestyle and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah. Jesse, you're kind of young. Did you ever watch the original Ghostbusters? Yeah. You remember when they don't cross the streams, you're gonna blow up the whole world.

You'd be the wrong order. It's gonna go, you're gonna go backward. No, I'm just kidding, listen. The order you're gonna do is perfectly fine. We did write them in a particular order, but really it's about which one's appropriate for your body. So there's not necessarily an order that everybody should run. Now if you're kind of like relatively new to strength training,

you know, a good order would be like maps, anabolic, maps for formants, maps aesthetic, then you could follow, you know, anything after that. But really symmetry could be added anywhere. And following anabolic is gonna be amazing. then you could follow anything after that, but really symmetry could be added anywhere. Yeah. And following anabolic is gonna be amazing. And there isn't specifically an order, except for kind of where you start

and what's appropriate for your body. So I'm glad you asked that question because new listeners might get that impression as well. I love symmetry after a map's anabolic and for where you're at in your journey. I honestly, just to piggyback off of ourselves, that's the one program that really wasn't like thought of like that.

It was like this really could be inserted as somebody's first program or in the middle of any program. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the symmetry can be inserted anywhere, including very first or in between programs and you're only going to gain benefit from doing that. But again, to be clear, if maps, you know, aesthetic was appropriate for you with your current fitness level, would there be anything wrong with going maps aesthetic and then mass performance and maps and a ball, which would be no. And I just saying that for everybody else listening right now, getting started is much more important than the order in terms of like what's appropriate is, you know, is the program appropriate for you is the right question, but Symmetry is great for most people. You're going to, you're

going to love it. If you had great results with anabolic, let me, what were the results with anabolic, by the way, you said you loved it. What did you see from it? Um, like my traps blew up, my biceps definitely got bigger. Overall strength in general. I kind of, before I picked up in a ball, I was doing a lot of five by five. So I was really focusing on just, you know, bench squats overhead press. And it wasn't until kind of Adam drove home. He's like deadlift, dude, deadlift, dude, deadlift was something I always

shied away from just because, you know, I didn't, I didn't know how to properly do it. And then I started doing that. So that's definitely like one of my favorites now. So yeah, I was just hammering the, uh, the five by five's for the most part. Yeah. So symmetry is going to be great. And then after that, um, if you want to go into a different program, you could either go maps performance if you want better function, or if you love the strength route, power lift or strong would be great after symmetry.

But symmetry is a great place to go next. OK. I just didn't know if it would be like where I'm at just being new to it. Should I go to symmetry and kind of shy away from you know Working on because a lot of what I've been doing is trying to work on my my form So I'm not like really lifting crazy heavier anything like that I'm just trying to make sure that I'm doing it properly and trying to nail that down before I move on

Yeah, no matter what you should always think that way regardless But you'd be fine going into any program that's appropriate the ones that would probably be harder that down before I move on. Yeah, no matter what, you should always think that way, regardless. But you'd be fine going into any program that's appropriate. The ones that would probably be harder to, that may be more likely to be inappropriate, would be the high, high volume type programs that we have. Esthetic, split, PD. Yeah, PD especially. Those are the programs people always go to first because they think for some reason that

that's going to do the best thing, but those are the ones that people can over train in most often because of the high volume. But I mean, if you can handle the volume, your body, if it's appropriate for you, those are great as well. But I think symmetry and then after that, you could do power lifts, strong performance, either one of those would be amazing afterwards.

Do you have symmetry by the way? I do, I do have. Okay, you're good. What do you wanna by the way? I do. I do have. You're good. What do you want to follow after that? I want to give you something. I don't know. To be honest, I haven't really looked into all of your programs.

So I don't know what a lot of them entail, but I would like to actually start like, you know, lifting heavy and start moving the weight up a little bit. So powerless. Whatever you have just for that. Mass power lift, we'll send that to you. So after symmetry, go for that. Awesome, awesome, that's great, man. You got it, man.

Thanks for calling in, brother. Oh, hold on, I got a second. Go for it, go for it, sorry. All right, so the second part is with my diet and like my intake or whatever. And I've listened to you guys very specifically on what is important. Protein intake and just getting calories, not leaving them super low, but getting them up to a point that's what you call it, reverse dieting.

Then you can bring it back. I've been struggling with that from what I have Tracked I've been around like 2300 calories and like 150 grams of protein where I should be closer to about 2800 calories and like 180 grams of protein somewhere around there. I'm just struggling to really get to that point. Cause I don't know, works kind of crazy and can be all over the place from time to time. So I can't always just, you know, meal prep everything,

work and late getting home and all that kind of stuff. So I'm just looking for any tips on that. You're a perfect person that would, I don't know if you've been following long enough, I used to post this recipe for a shake, and I know it's been in our form too. And here's an example of how I like to use protein shakes. You know you need to be, you need additional calories,

you know you need a little bit more protein, it's hard, scheduling wise, meal prepping wise. And so at the end of the night, I make myself like a peanut butter banana protein shake that I blend the night, I make myself like a, you know, peanut butter banana protein shake that I blend on ice. And it's like a milkshake. And so that's like my last thing that I eat before I go to bed. So that's an example of where I would utilize a shake is with so and now, if you're getting two of your meals already from shakes or bars to get your 150 grams, then I might

not go that direction. But if you're getting 150 grams of protein, mostly through whole foods right now, then I would just add a shake in the evening like that and that little hit your target. Yep. Okay, so that would be like you're saying the appropriate time where to, you know, to throw a shake in there. Yeah, totally sure. This is how I like, so my goal, okay, the way I communicate protein shakes and bars to clients is it is not ideal. I always want to start, I want to go after whole foods. That's my goal.

But the reality is there's times where I have a day like you seem to be having, which is, I know I'm short on protein, I know I can handle more calories right now, it's the end of the day. I don't feel like making a big old meal or defrosting chicken or doing something like that right now. And so I'll blend myself a banana, peanut butter, way smoothie on ice.

And in the night like that, that's a great way in my opinion to utilize protein shakes. Now again, I go back the next day and I'm like, all right, my goal is to hit that 181.90 through whole foods. And again, if I miss it, then I'm using that protein shake. But then other days where I'm like, oh, cool, I hit it. I don't need it today. So that's how I would approach it.

Can you have dairy, Jesse? Yeah. Oh, have you seen, have you tried magic spoon cereal? Or that? Yeah, yeah. Because you guys like got magic spoon, I got creatures in the habit, you guys. That's amazing.

Those are both super convenient. Yeah, great. Yeah, that's actually the other thing I would do. Either a magic spoon bowl of cereal, which I love to have at night. I'd never eat magic spoon cereal for breakfast. It's always my late night snack to hit my protein intake. That's literally how I use it.

Okay, yeah, because like breakfast is, I know where I'm missing. Just because the time I go to work, I'm not gonna wake up super, super early to make eggs and bacon and do the whole nine. So I'm just kind of skimping by on breakfast and really more focusing on lunch and dinner as a big one. So creatures of habit in the morning.

That's why you do creatures of habit then because here's the thing too though, when I have somebody who's low on protein, that's normally what happens, is they have a light protein breakfast, which again, this is part of why we partnered with creatures of habit and love that as getting you, at least started, at least 30 something grams of protein. Now, again, let's go like that's the default or whatever, but the ideal would be,

I don't know what you had for dinner last night, but whatever meat you had, I would save for the morning and I would literally just throw three eggs in the skillet real quick. Yeah, not even 10 minutes. Literally whatever it takes to scramble up three eggs with all that meat.

And then I literally just eat it like that, or wrap it in a tortilla, or a piece of bread, and I eat it that would be like a staple breakfast for me that doesn't take a lot of time, that's super high in protein, and it was convenient because I just used the leftovers from the night before dinner. If you can't do that, that take a lot of time, that's super high in protein, and it was convenient because I just used the leftovers from the night before dinner. If you can't do that, that is a lot of work and it's not realistic, then creatures of habit would be the second.

But if you don't get at least 30 to 50 grams in that first meal, it's really tough. You're playing catch up on that. Yeah, to hit your target, so that would be my advice. All right, because that's basically what I'm doing. You know what I mean? I'm just playing catch up all day trying to pack it in all at the end of the day when I get out of work. So I'm definitely going to take that advice and run with it. Excellent. Alright, Jesse. Thank you, ma'am. Hey, thanks, fellas. I appreciate it. You got it. Alright. Yeah, I'm glad you went a little deeper. That's almost always the issue. Yeah. Is that they start really focusing on eating like 11 or 12

is that they start really focusing on eating like 11 or 12. By that point, now you're behind the April. But if you start out with a good calorie, good protein breakfast. Yeah, I loaded up early. Oh, yeah, I mean, there you go. You're set. Yeah, if you're a meat eater and you like, your most of your meals are sitting around steak,

chicken, make extra. Yeah, you just, I mean, I don't know, we've done that most of my adult life where I just, oh, make enough to where I can make two or three meals the next day off of it. And you just adding rice or eggs to like a meal that you had for dinner. Oh, it's a great way to complete meals.

Yeah, boom, yeah, easy. Our next color is Megan from Missouri. Hi, Megan, how can we help you? All right, how are you guys? Good, how are you? How are you doing? Good, How are you? Yeah. Happy. Good. Good. I have been listening to you all since 2016.

So this is this is why. Wow. Wow. Molly, thank you. You made it. Yeah. They sure have. Well, I, so in the heart of my question is, am I ready for a map,

stand a ball like in pants? And I'll give you some insight as well in a mask in that. So I've been lifting consistently, since we're well, for like eight years, tracking insight as well in asking that. So I've been lifting consistently since we're, well, for like eight years, tracking my macros, all that good stuff. I ran anabolic twice, I ran aesthetic, I ran performance, I'm really well-versed

in your programs as well. About two years ago, I made a really dramatic career change. So I have been working in pharmaceutical sales for about a decade, really flexible schedule, I could concentrate on my fitness and all that good stuff, but corporate America was kind of sucking my soul drive. I decided to become a teacher. And so I went into the classroom for two years,

but in order to support myself on a teacher salary, I was actually working like two to three part-time jobs on top of teaching full time. So my sleep dramatically decreased, my stress dramatically increased. I just didn't have as much time to dedicate to what I loved and fitness and all that good stuff, just you know life priorities. So with that, I was still lifting consistently three days a week full body, but like my straight kind of tinked. I know I wasn't hitting my protein as well as I had been

in the past, all that good stuff. So, in May, I decided to actually transition out of the classroom and now working for a curriculum company. So it's totally remote, work from home, much more flexible with my schedule. So when I made that transition, like I really want to get my fitness back, I want to get my strength back and kind of get my body composition to where it had been in the past. So I decided to run maps 15, the advanced version, and I just finished that Sunday. I loved it. I ran it in just like a slight deficit and actually gained strength in the gym. So it was awesome. So my question that is now, am I ready for something like maps in a ball like advanced,

like something with that kind of novelty, is that what like I needed my fitness journey to kind of get myself out of my old strong self. Wow. What a great question. And thank you so much for the background. So okay. So before, before the stressful change in the lack of sleep and you follow the static and anabolic. How was your progress then compared to how you're doing now?

Let's compare, and I'm talking about before you made the switch and you had to like stop working out as much and all that stuff. So when you were following all those other programs, how was that versus how you are now? I would still say I was stronger back then. I had run like several reverse diets and also cuts and I'd gotten my metabolism to say I was stronger back then. I had run several reverse diets and also cuts, and I'd gotten my metabolism to where I was maintaining

on at least 2000 calories and squatting. I think my highest spot at that point was 150, 160. So pretty strong, so I'm not quite there yet. OK. Yeah, now the reason why I'm asking is because I don't, a lot of people who work out consistently make the mistake of going as far as their body were tolerate, which is beyond what's ideal. Okay, so that's why I wanted to ask you that question. It's probably going to be better for you to do a different program after Maps 15 and

then maybe going to anabolic advanced Yeah, I would like to see you do something like performance or Anabolic and then going to something like anabolic advanced or symmetry actually that's better That's a better option. I think symmetry would be better. Yeah, I like maps 15 symmetry and then anabolic advanced Yeah, that's great. That's that's actually better go map symmetry and then go anabolic advances. Yeah, that's great. That's actually better. Go map symmetry and then go anabolic advance. But that's not to say you couldn't go to anabolic advance now. Just a sword.

You probably get better results if you did it when symmetry first though. Okay, okay, that makes sense. That's awesome. Okay, do you have symmetry? I don't know. All right, we'll send that to you. Oh my gosh, you guys are awesome.

Thank you. Yeah, you got it, no problem. So do that and then after that going on a ball of advance and then you have a follow up. Let's know how to do it. Yeah, I love to hear. Are you doing after that? Yeah, we'll do. Thank you so much. That's so cool. No problem. Thank you. All right. All right. Yeah. Thank you. All right. You know, the problem with that is so many people who've been trained for a long ass time. If they all did map center, excuse me, maps 15, 15 the advanced version it'll probably get better results anyway Cuz we tend to push it so hard so I asked that question. Yeah, I'm wondering if even then yeah, what a

She would do much that would be did she seem like a teacher. Yeah, she's Energy alone pharmaceutical so pharmaceuticals. Yeah, she's definitely more of a teacher I feel like yeah, she's a look like a evil leaves a lizard person Way to go I would have done pharmaceutical sales. I thought about doing something like that. I say medical sales like a striker or something like that Yeah, same here make good money But after this after what happened I wouldn't be like I don't want to do this anymore Yeah, I think symmetry is going to be perfect for it.

For most people watching right now who are consistent, oftentimes reducing volume gets your body to get better results. And a program like symmetry is appropriate for most people because most people don't train that way. Yeah, and I think that we're always pushing the like, okay, so I love that you pointed out that she could probably, there's jump from 15 to advance and be okay. But if she can do something with less volume and less intensity and get as good or more results, you would.

That's better. It's better. Yeah. It's better to go with that, which I think symmetry is that. It is gradually build that moment. Yeah. And then after that hit that, so we'll continue on. But I will say when you do anabolic advanced, if it's appropriate, I mean, this is just the feedback we've been getting, like people's gains, far-loan people up. Oh, ridiculous, ridiculous.

It is that kind of a program. Our next caller is Katherine from Colorado. Hi, Katherine. How can we help you? Hey, yeah, so thanks for having me on. Really cool to be on here. I'll just jump right in. I'm gonna read my question.

So I found you guys back in 2020 when all of this started. I'm really grateful for everything that you've taught me. I studied Can You See Allegean Health Science and just remember graduating Hungary for more. And sorry, I'm kind of nervous. And since I found your podcast, I feel like you guys helped me grow in that passion and help me continue to learn. So thank you. You're welcome. Thanks you. Okay, so I'll just jump right in. I'm 28 years old and 5-5. I've been lifting for

10 years and I currently left 5 days a week. I do three light days and two upper body days. I don't really do cardio except for some jump rope in between sets. I do yoga on my off days and I hike as much as I can, but I don't do these for the purpose of cardio. I just love being active. So since I quit birth control in 2016, I had amenorea and I had that since then. In September of 2020, I had some pretty severe hormonal symptoms that resulted in a 50-pound weight gain over five months. So it's keep flashes, vertigo, migraines, and depression.

I was a really lean 120 pounds to begin with and I was 170 by the end of it. So I cut in reverse four times from early 2021 until fall of 2022. With each reverse, I gained more and more weight and with each cut, I became more and more resistant to weight loss. I kept plateauing and never hit my goal. So in September of 2022, I started by a identical hormone replacement therapy, and I started

a cut at the same time with a coach. I lost only five pounds over the course of three months. We dropped all the way down to 1350, and I reversed to 1800 calories and gained another 10 pounds in four months at the 1800 calories. So I was 183 at this point So beginning March of this year. I started at Zembeck. My hormones are beginning to regulate but still not 100 percent I've lost about 25 pounds and 157 But my calories are drastically low at 1200. I don't feel as lean and my arms is weight, and my arms is in my waist as I was at this weight last time.

My goal weight is 150 to 155, and to stay there during the reverse. I don't want to stop, wasn't big yet. I want to lose the weight finally, but I'm very afraid of what the reverse is going to look like, and what the damage could be from dropping so low in calories. So considering everything that's already going on, what would be the best way to reverse and keep the weight off?

Should I reverse well on it? Well, on a Zimpic, any advice on where to go from here? Yeah, so before I answer your question, I'm gonna tell you what I think you should do. And then I'll answer your question. Actually, you stopped birth control 2016. How long were you on it for up until that point? I want to say probably four or five years.

Okay. What were you taking? The pill, I don't really, I think I switched brands like several times. Okay. So it was, it might have contributed to what's going on, but it might have masked something that developed while you were on the hormones that now you're starting to have to kind of deal with. My advice to you before I answer your question, because I know that's what you want the answer to, but my advice to you is to not focus on the scale and not focus on any goals in terms of on the scale and not focus on any goals in terms of fat loss or gain or body sculpting. At your age, I would work with a functional medicine practitioner to get to the root cause. And I say at your age, because this is very solvable if you do this the right way. If you don't, and if you keep pushing weight gain, weight loss, let me try biodeonticals,

let me throw some peptides at myself without figuring out the root cause. This is gonna get harder and harder as you get older. I don't think you're gonna solve your problem, in other words, with the path that you're currently on. I think a functional medicine practitioner is gonna be your best bet for figuring out the root cause of what's happening.

And it may be as simple as a gut issue. You know, gut health, poor gut health can cause tremendous havoc with the hormones and inflammation and the body. And oftentimes goes mask, oftentimes masked with hormone therapy and sometimes people don't even have gastro symptoms. Sometimes they feel like, oh, my everything else is okay,

maybe it isn't gut issue. And I'm just wanting to, that might not even be it, but I think the best person to get to the root cause of what's going on is gonna be somebody like that. And I don't think you should focus on gaining or losing weight because that's gonna keep you away from figuring out the root issue. Yeah, I 100% agree.

And I wanted to address the feeling that you have of why you feel like you don't look the way You did when you were this way before and this is the drawback of things like ozimpic or cutting calories like this is that You lost as much if not more muscle when you did when you cut so the weight came down But you probably lost an equal amount of muscle as you did body fat and or potentially more Of the muscle on the way down, because of how low the calories and you're just not supporting the muscle that you do have on your body with enough calories and nutrients, primarily protein. And so you're going to run into

this vicious cycle if you don't address what Sal saying. So my recommendation, are you not in the form, the MP hormones, the, excuse me, MP holistic health, MP holistic health, forum, it's free. I think I'm in the mind of hormones, but I don't know if I'm in the holistic health one. Yeah, get in the holistic health one. That's Dr. Cabral and their team, it's free, it's free also. Are you, now you have a coach right now

that's helping you with your diet and all that stuff? I currently don't have a coach, but I am seeing a functional medicine practitioner. Oh, there you are. Yeah, so she actually is the one who put me on a Zemphic. She, so she found SIBO. She found that I had mold in my system. So we, the mold, we got rid of the SIBO for the most part, it does kind of tend to come

back, but I've gotten better at kind of tackling that. So that was definitely part of the problem. And then yeah, she's the one who put me on the ozemic. She thinks it could be PCOS or maybe like a combination of things or maybe the birth control. I have seen like six or seven doctors since all of this started. And she's the only one who has like,

I feel like, I feel like, cause it really helped me, but I still don't really know what's going on. Well, so, cause it can take a while, right? You can solve some of the issues, but then your body has to heal. So you solved the SIBO issue, you got tested again and the SIBO's gone,

or is it still, cause sometimes it can take a while to deal with that? Yeah, I think it was gone for a little bit. I never really like retested it, but like I knew at some point that I was like, okay, it's gone and then I kind of get a feeling I'm like, okay, it's coming back. So she will put me on an antibiotic and then we'll just kind of go from there. Is she using herbals or antibiotics? and we'll just kind of go from there. Is she using herbals or antibiotics? Antibiotics, I prefer the herbal method. So I do try and like, when it comes back,

I try and go that route first. But sometimes that's not always 100% effective with all the stuff I've got. Yeah, they can, they can work with antibiotics too. Okay, so, and then what about the mold? Have you gotten retested for the mold toxicity? That's completely gone. It is, okay.

So there's a detox issue that's going on in your body, it sounds like, and you know, this person has probably identified that. And if you're working with them, I would not focus on weight gain or weight loss. I would work on being totally healthy. That's what's gonna get you where you want, by the way. So I would continue to focus on that.

I would not worry too much about, you much about cutting and gaining and bulking. I would feed my body appropriately. Eat when I'm hungry, eat whole natural foods, let my body settle, wherever it's at. But you probably have a period of healing that you got to go through. Now that you've gotten the... So, here's what happens a lot of times. People have mold, or they'll have SIBO, they'll get rid of it, and they're like, cool, I can jump right back into, you know, what I was doing before or what I want to do.

No, no, no, no, now you have to heal. Now there's a period of healing. And what happens is, and this is why SIBO is so often reoccurring, is that people get rid of the SIBO, don't allow things like the mucosa lining to heal, don't allow the inflammation to go away, don't allow the junctions between the cells of the gut to kind of repair. Then they go back to life as it was, and then the seabull comes back because of motility issues or whatever. So you got to give yourself some time to heal. I would give you like a year. That was deceptively long. Yes. So yeah, I know that for sure. Yeah, I would go for a full year.

And then if you need to get back on something for SIBO, see if your functional medicine practitioner, and now here's a deal, some people just don't work, orables just don't work for them. And they gotta go the pharmaceutical route. So I would, you know, I obviously don't know this person, and you've been working with them.

But I'd say, hey, you know, I just want to, I just want to optimize my health. For the next year. I'm really, I'm like, I'm stumped on why she went ozampic. Well, it's a semi-glutite peptide, right? You're probably going through compound pharmacy. The, you know, the thing with the GLP1 agonist is they're finding that it's helping people kind of rewire behaviors. And this is why I think functional medicine practitioners. The thing with the GLP1 agonist is they're finding that it's helping people kind of rewire behaviors. And this is why I think functional medicine practitioners

are starting to work with things like that. If you were not working with a functional medicine practitioner, I would caution you against it. But the fact that you're working with someone. I just feel like if she's even going to mess with a peptide, it would be something like BPC 157 like the pill form for helping her gut heal. Potentially. But ozimpic, if she's already low calorie and I'm trying to get her to eat more balanced and healthy, stay away from things that are setting her gut, go after a protein intake that's going to help her build muscle, speed and metabolism up, I wouldn't think ozimpic would be the route I was trying to build.

Well, you remember when we talked to Dr. Seeds, he explained some of the pathways and how it works. And it's much more than just right, right. So I do eat less. And I think that's probably because you're going to see more functional practitioners work with things like, is it helps crack some of the behavioral issues? Yes. So it can work with that is the goal as the idea. So I would follow their advice, but I really, Catherine, I would not focus on trying to cut or any kind of aesthetic goal. I would focus on performance in the gym, mobility and health. And that's going to get you where you want to go. And I would do it for a year, even if you feel great, you know, four months, I feel so strong. I want to whatever, just like, now I'm going to give myself a year because it can take

a while to heal. I mean, some of the symptoms that you were mentioning and you've been to six or seven doctors, like even if you got rid of the causes, that's gonna take a while for your body to heal and it takes a while for the central nervous system even to forget essentially that threat. And that's not a theory that a lot of people are floating that the CNS kind of has this memory

of the past threat and the longer you move away from it, the better your body is at not all of a sudden jumping back into where it was before. So that's my advice to you. I hope that does that help? Yeah, I kind of had a feeling you guys were going to say something like that. I think what I'm the crossroad that I'm kind of at now because I'm really approaching my goal weight, I guess, is like, do I reverse off the ozemic and reverse my calories?

Or do I stay on the ozemic and reverse my calories? Or do I just stop counting calories, stop doing ozemic, you know, what, how would you, uh, too much, too much all at once. I would reverse the calories while on ozemic. Okay. And then I would, I would lower the dose of ozemic and then come off. Okay. Okay.

That's how I would approach it. And really like back to the focusing on getting strong, it will, it will feel like it's a slow process, but if you, if you know you're getting healthier and you're healing and you're getting better, you will start to build muscle. And when you start to build muscle and you start to get stronger, it will speed up your metabolism. This in turn will lean you out. I mean, we can put,

remember, we can put five pounds of weight on the scale and you actually get leaner. If we add five pounds and all of its muscle, you're technically a leaner person and you will feel and look that way. So, and if you're that low of calorie, I think that's the direction that we need to go. Also, you know, MP holistic health is a forum.

There's functional medicine practitioners in there. You can ask other people questions, other functional medicine practitioners questions, just to see if there's any, you know, other directions or advice or areas that you may want to look into. Okay. All right. Cool. I appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks, Kathy. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, thank you so much. You. Alright. Cool. I appreciate it. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. Thank you so much. You got it. I thought that was such an interesting direction that a functional practice. So here's the thing. Both it doesn't sound antibiotics and then ozimpic. It doesn't sound typical. We don't know the history and what they've been doing together. That's why I'm a little, yeah, I don't know the context. That's why I'm careful. On its on the surface, I mean, most functional medicine practitioners I've worked with, they don't go pharmaceutical unless they have to.

Right, sorry. That's why it was so weird to me to hear antibiotics and ozemic in some conversations. Well, less mechanical hormones. Oh, right. Yeah, but again, like, we don't know what they've done and how far she's gone. And there's so much in this that's like we would do an hour and a half with her.

I know. Just trying to work it through. And it's not even she said she'd been through multiple physicians. I hope she I hope she gets in the form with Cabral. And here's what they because maybe you're right. Maybe there's something that we're not hearing or that we don't know. And then he also would go, Oh, yeah, I understand why they're going that route. But I also think there's, there's, because a functional practitioner now can prescribe these things, and there's a lot of money in fucking peptides for that. You're gonna see more and more of these

functional practitioners utilizing that and pushing that. It's gonna, it reminds me of like the, the chiropractic move when we saw so many people that would get into that space, and then it turned into a money grab more than anything else. And it was very small percentage of really good car factors that I would meet going for. I feel like we're going to see that same movement into functional practitioners with like what's going on in the peptide.

I hope not. I hope not, but if they're used properly, they can be very- I'm very- You're right. I'm saying I hope not because that would suck, but I mean, you're probably right. We don't know the case here. There's only thing I'm trying to say. And I know that there is an appropriate way

to use these things. You know, when you understand the context of what's going on, and so that's why I'm always very careful, because what I don't know is maybe they did do all these things, and I tell her, don't do that, and then she stops. And then, yeah, yeah. But here's the thing that we do know.

She had mold toxicity and SIBO. There is a detoxifying pathway that needed to get worked out and she still needs to heal. I mean, she didn't get her period for years. She thinks she has PCOS. She's talking about all these crazy weight fluctuations, hormonal issues, like there was some shit that was going on. The mold was a part of it, but sometimes you get the mold toxicity because you're exposed to mold,

the other times you get it is because you're exposed to mold and your body doesn't get rid of it for some other reason. So we don't know necessarily what's going on, but there's definitely something, and if she did solve it, it's going to take a while. And this is a lot of people to understand this. When you oftentimes, look, if you have a knee injury because of the way you're walking and then you fix the way you're walking, you don if you, if you have a knee injury because of the way

you're walking and then you fix the way you're walking, you don't go all run all of a sudden. You got to let a heal before you can go push yourself. A lot of people don't know this. Like, oh, I got rid of the mold. Now I'm going to go do all this stuff for the CBOs gone. So, I'm going to go to the testing when you're feeling really good. Correct. That was my mistake a hundred times. So, our next color is Josh from Ohio. Josh, what's happening,? Not much. First off just say thank you guys. You guys do a great job. Been listening to you guys since about 2019. You guys provide a lot of information. Much that I hear sometimes don't get to the practicing portion of it or have the discipline to keep up with it

But really appreciate the info you guys put out You guys want me just go straight into the question. Yeah, it's here Josh All right So this was back towards the end of June, but I had gone to the doctor because I had had some issues with my shoulders. I was told last year that I had a bone spur and my right shoulder and both shoulders have felt like they were grinding, or as if tendons muscles were hung up on the bone spur and pulled across that one by one. This happens more so on incline lifts and when using my arms laterally and over my head Yesterday the nurse practitioner at the orthopedic office looked at X-rays of both my shoulders and confirmed bones bones first on each

The advice surgery isn't an option to pile down those furors We further elaborated that my issue is a lack of cartilage between the arm bone and the socket due to arthritis. He stated that I need to stop lifting heavy weight, but lightweight high volume would be okay. He did not elaborate as to what rep range he would recommend. He did say that if my shoulders continued to worsen, I would need to have shoulder replacement. Needless to say, I will need to have shoulder replacement. Needless to say, I was bummed by the news. My question, though, is

I had a couple of buddies that I've talked to about this and a couple of mentions and peptides to in particular where the TB 500 and the BPC 157. I've looked at these two and neither specifically mentions working on arthritis. You want to find out your thoughts on those and then which programs would you recommend for higher rep ranges and what range do you think I would be okay to do? Yeah. Well, Josh, have you heard the term when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail? Yes. Have you heard the term when you're at hammer everything looks like a nail? Yes, yeah, when you ask an orthopedic surgeon or somebody in that field what the problem is they're gonna look at the joint And they're gonna say oh, I could see why you hurt your joint looks the way it does But the other question is why?

Why do I have a bone spur a bone spurs often come from australritis or joint degeneration and that usually comes from poor movement patterns. So over years and years and years, same thing with wearing down cartilage. So in other words, I could take away the bone spurs, I could give you brand new cartilage. And then over the course of the next, however many years it'll come back, it'll happen again, because we haven't really solved the issue, which is you're

moving in a way to cause these issues or cause these problems. You have movement patterns that are causing these issues. As far as peptides go, BPC and TB500, they can accelerate healing, but so what if you keep damaging the joint through poor movement patterns? It's like, you know, like I'm scraping my hand and getting a scar or, you know, getting a scab, and so now I'm gonna heal faster,

I'm still scraping the shit out of my hand. It's not gonna, it'll help a little bit, but it's not gonna solve the problem. The root cause is movement pattern issues. So we gotta figure that out. Now the best option for you would be to work with a movement specialist, the correctional exercise specialist. Physical therapists can do this quite well,

but there's other movement specialists you can hire that would work with you, that would also do a pretty damn good job. Now, if that's not, if that's out of the question for you because they can be kind of expensive, I think the mobility work and isometric exercises will be the place to start, okay?

So you said overhead movement or overhead press is bothering your shoulder. Correct. Okay, can you hold the weight above your head and just hold it there? Does that hurt? No, holding it is fine. And the pain is very short term is just literally like while I'm moving through the stages of where my shoulder is kind of grinding or making that movement. So here's an idea, okay, and you could try this, but if I were to train you, what I would do is I'd have you press a weight above your head,

pack your shoulder, so drop your shoulder down while keeping your elbow extended, and holding that for 15 to 20 seconds and staying tense. That would be a set. Then the next set is I'd lower it by maybe two inches, same thing, pack the shoulder, hold that for 10 to 15 seconds. That's another set. Now the one would be a little lower.

So essentially you're moving through the range of motion, but you're not moving through the range of motion in the rep. You're literally holding certain positions. And the key is to get into the position to where it doesn't hurt, which means you may have to drop the shoulder back. you may have to straighten out your spine, you may have to align your elbow, you may have to go lighter. But what this will do is strengthen a better movement pattern.

And then eventually you can move into the full range of motion. And I will combine that with mobility work. And to your earlier point of like finding a good physical therapist or somebody to take you through these movements, like articulate your shoulder and ranges of motion that you learn these ranges of motion. You learn these movement patterns specifically. So you can find those areas where it's like it's right up to the threshold, but now we stop

and we kind of back off and then we squeeze and we tense our muscles and we try to make an isometric contraction happen there. So what we're trying to do is rebuild this feedback. So your, your bias like, I can stabilize in this position and your, your bias can be more comfortable and familiar in that range of motion. So when we actually start to go loading it and pressing or, or lifting weights, you know, around your shoulders, like it's going to have

that feedback that everything is supported and accounted for. So the mobility piece to that, really, the more you can dive into that and even get help with that is gonna be crucial. But yeah, like isometrics are beautiful for any type of rehab and then eventually I would even recommend from there you go through all that

work and then we get into stuff like rubber bands where it's a little less impact, but it's going to actually help to kind of build more strength and get more blood flow and things and it brings a bit of a healing element to that. Yeah, I think this is a really tough one to help somebody virtually. And I think it is very, very well worth the investment in getting a physical therapist or movement specialist who is going to work through the movements. And even if you just did it for a short period of time so they give you a collection of say five to ten movements like the one Sal was describing that you have in your arsenal for you to then go practice, but having a coach there or a specialist there who is gonna be able to explain to you when you're in a certain place like oh that bothers me

and they can go oh well that's because you need to lift your chest up and pull your shoulder blades back down and they can actually help you articulate your body in the position that you need to be in through these movements. Doing that online without us kind of seeing you move. I mean, I hope we can help, but I do think that I would save the money on the peptides. I would save the money on things because here's a thing, like if you don't and then this goes the surgery and the medication route. And so at that, you're going to end up spending way more money on that. On the same place. Yeah, you're going to be you're going to be worse off.

You're going to spend more money and it's going to be this frustrating thing that you're battling but investing in somebody to help you through this and and actually seeing beneficial movement patterns. Yes. That's really where you need to go. Now in the meantime, if you don't have maps prime pro I'll send that to you and they're shoulder and shoulder blade mobility movements that you can practice on your own very carefully with good control, good tension. Don't just go through the movements, but do them in a controlled fashion as they're demonstrated in the video. And in those videos, what's so great about Prime Pro is we actually have one of our favorite movement specialists, Dr. Brink and their coaching, the three of us on how to move.

So you get that kind of one on one feeling. So that I agree. This would be the best virtual thing that we can do for you is at least give that to you, but I would still see that. He's in our form a bunch too. So that would be somebody I would definitely reach out to and he might know somebody in your area that he'd recommend. In fact, if you wanna work with someone,

where are you located, Josh, you're in Ohio? North Central Ohio. Okay, so he's Idaho. Yeah, he's Idaho, but he does work with people virtually. I've sent some family members to him. So just get him in the form. And he's excellent. If you go in our forum and ask for him,

I mean, he can help you and then you could probably, if you wanna work with him privately, I was always want the best. He's the best. I mean, that's why we developed the program with him. So that sounds good. I thank you guys for that. You got it, man. Yeah, we're going to send you over Prime Pro. We're also going to send you access to the forum, Josh. So make sure you get in there. His name is Dr. Justin Brink. Yeah. That's the guy you want to look for in tag. Yeah, yeah, tag him and then ask questions and he'll take it from there. I do already have the forum.

If I may real quick, do you have like a specific rep range that you think that I would be, should I continue to do my exercises and the other programs that I have you guys or just do the prime pro for a while? You need, I mean as long as they don't hurt you, that's fine, but it sounds like you need to go correctional exercise 100%. For some of that, yeah, yeah, and see what ability you have in terms of what your ranges are. And I think figuring out those parameters

would be super helpful for then the regular exercises. So to give you something to follow right now, so you're doing something on a regular basis until we get to brink or solve some of this stuff. Go to the mapsprimeprowebinar.com and follow the little 50-minute routine that I have in there. That'll give you something to do. That you can start, like you can keep going on

and you can do that's gonna benefit you and help you right now. And then in the meantime, we'll get connected to brain and start working on the shoulder specifically. But you're better off putting a lot of focus on that than potentially injuring yourself doing some of the other weight stuff. All right, sounds good.

Thank you. You got it, man. I'm glad you're on it. Yeah, good luck. Take it easy. Yep. Yeah, the problem with the traditional methods is the doctor's like, oh, we got a bronze

bow. And then they'll go and they'll shave it off. And then, you know, and then they're like, wow, I feel better about you, but the movement pattern has changed. Yeah. Or worse, give you a shot. And this is why you, yeah, especially in knee surgeries, you end up like having to do the other knee.

Yeah. It's just inevitable. Yeah. Because the movement pattern was never. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. This is one of those things too, where it might seem expensive to hire someone like a cheaper doctor, brings caliber, right? But man, hiring someone like that for one or two months

to see you two, three times a week until you get this like really down. It's actually gonna be cheaper if you count. 100% it'll be way, way, way cheaper. And then you at least have the knowledge on, okay, this is what I need to do. If I want to address this myself versus trying to gas or go into these surgeons that, again,

that everything is a nail to them. Yeah, this reminds me of like, it's when I used to go to work with my dad. I remember there was this one job he went to and the guy, he gave the guy a quote. And the guy said, well, the other guy is gonna do it for half the price and my dad knew how they'd do it and he goes, it's actually gonna be more expensive for you

because then you're gonna call me to tear it down and I'm gonna have to come reinstall it. It's exactly what happened. Exactly, I put it in, you know, and it was all crappy or whatever. My dad went in, had to tear it down and then do it again. The guy ended up spending more money. So, look, if you like the show,

go to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides Get some help from mind pump with those free guides. You can also find all of us on Instagram So Justin is on Instagram at mind pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at mind pump De Stefano and Adam is on Instagram at my pump out of Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

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