Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2279: The Pros & Cons of Eating vs. Fasting Before a Work Out, What Soreness Really Means, Building a Great Body With Only a Suspension Trainer & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Might pop with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in history. This is mine pump. Right. Today's episode, we answered live question. So people called in, we got to help them out live on air, but this was after our intro portion. The intro was 57 minutes long.

Starting point is 00:00:28 So we talk about like current events, studies, family life, and much more. By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps. If you just want to skip around to your favorite parts. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one where we help you on air, email us at live at mind pump media.com. Now this episode was brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera.

Starting point is 00:00:47 They make skincare products that are all natural and have been shown in clinical trials to improve the look and feel and health of your skin. In fact, 91% of people in the trial said it made a big difference. Go check them out. Go to caldera lab.com. That's C a l d e r a l a b.com forward slash mine pump. Use the code mine pump, get 20% off. This episode's also brought to you by Legion. They make high performance supplements for people interested in building muscle,

Starting point is 00:01:14 burning body fat, or just improving their health. Today we talked about their sleep supplement called Lunar. It works really well and they just reformulated it and it's now in a chewable form. Go check them out. Go to buy legion.com. That's B U Y L E G I O N. Dot com forward slash mine pump, use the code mine pump and get 20% off your first order. We're also running a sale on some workout programs this month. Maps performance is half off and our extreme fitness bundle of programs is also

Starting point is 00:01:41 half off. You can find all of that at maps fitness products.com, but you have to use the code FEB50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. When you do a strength training exercise or when you lift weights, there's two general approaches. The first one is to focus on the movement, perfect the movement, feel the movement. The second one is to feel the muscle.

Starting point is 00:02:05 Both of them have distinct advantages and disadvantages. Try them both in your training. Do you think, do you think we're helping people or hurting them by telling them that I think sometimes I feel like that's like very confusing. Nope. Well, let's talk about it. That's why we have a podcast. We don't just end it there.

Starting point is 00:02:20 Right. Yeah. A little bit further. Well, okay. So, so a good example of movement, movement focus, strength training would be like a power lifter, right? Power lifter doesn't care about feeling the chest and a bench press or the quads in a squat.

Starting point is 00:02:32 They're trying to maximize the biomechanics, trying to maximize movement, lift as much weight as possible in the safest way possible. Bodybuilders are an example of the other option. Bodybuilders could care less about how much weight is on the bar. When they do a bench press, they want to feel the pecs, squeezing, contracting, getting a pump. When they do squats, they want to feel it in their target muscles, right?

Starting point is 00:02:53 Both of them have advantages. One of them teaches you how to really fire the central nervous system. And especially if you've only been lifting for a few years, that's the way you activate the most muscle fibers. The other way is advantageous as well, because it teaches you how to sculpt the body, shape the body, identify weak areas. And it's also less risk of injury when you work out that way. Totally competing goals though, or competing mindsets, I should say.

Starting point is 00:03:18 Yeah, it's interesting to think about that because, I mean, as you're doing, like, if you're just movement focused with that too, it's like you're still confined to like perfecting that whole process. Like I want to, I want to be loose enough. I want to, I want to add as much force as possible in the right optimal time and then be able to relax my body and end up in a position that I'm seeking out. And so it's like to have like, you feel your muscles in that process would slow you down, it would kind of interrupt that whole flow. It's like a very like fluid mindset versus like the other is very much like, let's hyper focus on every little thing, every little

Starting point is 00:03:57 nuance that's happening, contraction wise with the muscles. Can I, can I feel this a little bit more intensively? Like bodybuilders do a really good job of making lightweight seem heavy. I think that's a big thing. I feel like if you've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to work out with a power lift, a true power lift, there's always been power lifting, most their lifting career, right?

Starting point is 00:04:16 And then a true bodybuilder, someone who's been training like a bodybuilder for most of their career. It's so obvious. So different. I mean, if you've got somebody who maybe intertwines, you go back and forth or, you know, lifts one way for a while, then changes is one thing. But if you, like, you ran the exact same workout,

Starting point is 00:04:33 same exercises, and you worked out with a power lifter, and then you ran that back next week, and you ran that with a bodybuilder, the experience of that workout would feel so different. You say it was, and you know, it's funny that this conversation is something that actually draws me back to Justin and I's when we first met because I don't really work out with a lot of people.

Starting point is 00:04:55 Like I've talked about that so many times on the show, like I'm the guy who doesn't like workout partners and never been a fan of that. You like that white snake song? Which one is that? Here we go. Oh my oh. Who's the chick that's dancing on the car on that one? Oh, Tori?

Starting point is 00:05:12 No, Tori something. No, that's someone else. Did that video make her famous or was she famous? That video made her famous. So the video made her famous. I'm almost positive. Was she dating the lead singer or was that just like a random, like the, their producer or whoever sought her out.

Starting point is 00:05:29 No idea. I so picture like Doug and like a high school dance to that song. Is that your high school dad? When you were, is that close? How close am I? I don't know what your that is. Oh, Tony, Cataim.

Starting point is 00:05:39 Oh, Tony. Tony. That can't be her real name. 1989, where you at? Where you at? Everybody's got a watch 1989 I was I graduated by university by then Still you were still it was still relevant. Yeah, right. Well, no he great. So it hadn't even come out

Starting point is 00:05:54 Yeah, so he was he was dancing something even older. Yeah, I was trying to I was trying to hook you up there Try to hook you up for a couple years there. I was dancing to the Count Basie band Trying to hook you up for a couple of years there. I was dancing to Count Basie band. No, you were. The who? Shut up. Shut up. All right. All right. Take it back. Take it back to what you were saying.

Starting point is 00:06:09 But so Justin was one of the few people that I probably went through a stint that I lifted with pretty consistently. And it was always interesting to watch how different we did every exercise. Yeah. Because you were a bodybuilder folk. Yeah. Yeah. I was totally bodybuilder. And I would even categorize me as like the extreme version of that. In fact, I remember getting introduced to training that way.

Starting point is 00:06:32 And I used to like the point that Justin made right there. I used to like to use the lightest weight, but make it heavy, right? And because I cared just about the way I looked, that was like the thing. It was like I loved pulling up next to a powerlifter guy who was moving all his weight, grunting and slamming to make a big noise. And then I'd come over with my little itty bitty weight, but that would be jet, you know, all shredded. So you used to get excited when, uh, I mean, you'd bury me in some of these

Starting point is 00:06:55 like hypertrophy workout. See, I feel like, okay, now we're in a super, that was my hack. I never super said anything before that. It was just all just like a% max effort with each lip. Remember that workout we had with Ben Picolsky at his gym? Yeah. And he took all three of us through a workout. I think that's what the most awkward for me.

Starting point is 00:07:15 I think that's what was the most awkward I've ever seen, Justin. He kept correcting it, Justin's form. Yeah, I was like. Because Justin's not a bodybuilder. I was like, I'm pretty sure we're gonna get into fight if this keeps going. He kept going over it. I was like, grab my arms and like moving on. I was like, oh God. You gotta feel it right here. Feel it's very, Justin's like, I'm pretty sure we're going to get in a fight if this keeps going. He kept going over to grab my arms and like moving on.

Starting point is 00:07:25 I'm just like, Oh God, you got to feel it right here. Feel it. Sorry. Justin's like, Oh God, this is terrible. But I mean, this, it's, this is important to understand about strength. Take cause they both have so much value. Like if you look at the studies on activating muscle fibers, okay, you will activate more muscle fibers if you fire the whole body.

Starting point is 00:07:43 And that's what movement based training tends to do. Right. So when you bench press like a power lift, what do they focus on? Leg drive, activating the lats, like all these muscles in order to, to generate this neural drive that helps you lift the most weight. Bodybuilders are like, flare your elbows out, fill your pecs, squeezing at the top, feel the stretch, you know, at the bottom type of deal.

Starting point is 00:08:03 Now, as you become more advanced, you can activate more muscle fibers without having to fire the whole central nervous system. So, so when you see these like really advanced lifters and they can really turn on a muscle without activating too many of the other muscles, that's a skill that's developed, but they're both valuable. Like I, like when you switched to powerlifting style training, you probably saw a new muscle grow.

Starting point is 00:08:21 Yeah. You know, and Justin probably when you went to hypertrophy, 100%. Yeah. So it's like these two like these two paths are not, it's not like you have to stay in one or the other, you should focus on both of them. And I would even make the argument that power lifters would gain value from doing some hypertrophy.

Starting point is 00:08:36 In fact, I don't need to make that argument. 100%. They know that now. Yeah, no, 100%. You know, the part, the original point I made about, are we just confusing people more? I do think that this sheds a little bit of light on sometimes when you see these different pieces of content

Starting point is 00:08:49 that go viral, that also as a consumer, becoming aware of who's presenting that information, right? Like there's been many times where like, our good friend Jordan Shallow will put something out and it will sound like it's countering something that we're talking about. It's like, well, no, that he's, he's coming from a different philosophy of lifting.

Starting point is 00:09:07 It's not necessarily that it's right or wrong or my ways, right? His way is wrong. It's just that depending on your pursuit and your way of training, it can determine how that piece of content is, is interpreted. And so the average person sometimes doesn't understand how to do that. It turns into like, Oh, well, he says this. Well, it's like, okay, yeah, that's true, but this is also true.

Starting point is 00:09:27 Speaking of which, his certification is one of the only ones. There's very few certifications that really tackle workout programming in a way where I'm impressed. To his physiological level. Yeah, like he, he really, because workout programming is a lot of nuance.

Starting point is 00:09:42 There's, you know, depending on who you're working with and the client, and that really, it could vary so greatly on how you would program a workout. And there's so many moving parts. His is one of the better ones. Where you look at it, actually, I would say one of the best ones, where you look at how they teach programming,

Starting point is 00:09:59 like how to construct effective workouts. They do a really good job. He's one of the only ones I know too that has sort of a living breathing course, that they constantly change based on current research. And he's always addressing that with these group calls and informing all the coaches and he keeps it like super, super current.

Starting point is 00:10:19 Like a lot of these other certifications are kind of dinosaur these days. Well, there's a reason why he's been accepted into these circles like the NFL and the NBA. I mean, every time I look up, he's at another NBA camp, NFL camp, working with some pro athlete. I mean, he's definitely, he's moving around in very respected circles like that that you can't just anybody can get into. He's gonna be teaching us his cert here live, right? What's the date that he's doing it? It's in March, I think it, yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:47 Middle of March, middle of 15. Here in our gym, he's teaching it live. Yes, yes, that's correct. And I'm getting a better URL put together here right now. Is the URL sucks? We're gonna help him out. It's like five dashes and you know. Yeah, so, colon, colon.

Starting point is 00:11:01 We're gonna change the URL to to mind pump l one.com. Okay. And I believe it's the 15th, 16th and 17th. If I'm not mistaken. First 10 people that sign up have access to watch a live show. Correct. Recording for us. And then the day before, which is Friday, is you can come down and do a meet and greet with us.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Is that right? Well, that's correct. So the meet and greets on Friday and the live show is on Friday, Friday morning. Got it. OK. And then the next day, next two days are the actual certification.

Starting point is 00:11:31 Look at Sal and you didn't make the cut, huh? Yep. No. What's up with the picture? We don't want two videos. Oh, there we are. Sorry. Yeah, dude.

Starting point is 00:11:40 Man, I see how they got smart. I see how they got smart. Adam Justin. Hey, I think they've done a lot of testing. When I see pictures like this, I'm like, Hey, wouldn't it be how they got it smart. Adam Justin. They've done a lot of testing. When I see pictures like this, I'm like, Hey, wouldn't it be funny? Do any of our partners split test our stuff?

Starting point is 00:11:49 I wonder if that's... See who does better, whose picture? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you guys make every thumbnail. I'm like, run every, like, 50 thumbnails. I'm like, oh, cool. Cool.

Starting point is 00:11:58 Be more handsome. Thanks, production team. I appreciate your love. I don't know how fucking beatface gets it all the time. I get you. I talk a lot. I just say a lot of stuff. I appreciate your love. I don't know how fucking Beatface gets it all the time. I get you. I talk a lot. I just say a lot of stuff. Speaking of my face, when I see these old pictures here of us, did I walk through like

Starting point is 00:12:12 an accelerated aging portal at some point? I saw a video of myself. So Jessica filmed me. I had these, my son has these dinosaur toys and my daughter, my 15 month old daughter, my three year old son around my lap and I'm playing with the dinosaurs and she filmed this cute video, right? So then she sends it to me, sends it to the family. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I look like, I look like a nun. I look like a grandchild. Hey, when does that happen to us, dude? That'll be a shot, right? When someone asks you,

Starting point is 00:12:41 it's like, Oh, is that your grandchild? I've been able to redirect Courtney's like, Oh, is that your grandchild? I've been able to redirect Courtney's like, you know, some, some bits of like inclination. Oh, wow. Maybe another kid, like you're going to be a grandma. Let's focus on that. Wait, is she bringing that up? Is she's bringing that up every once in a while? No, I mean, no, just like, maybe.

Starting point is 00:13:00 No, no, it's not a thing. Let me put this out. Let's shut it down. Would you even consider that right now? Where, how far along you are right now? Yeah, I feel like's not a thing. I'll let you put this out. I'll shut it down. Would you even consider that right now? We're at how far along you are right now. Yeah, I feel like you've crossed over. Do you remember at that, what age they were when you're like, there's no turning back now, there's no more.

Starting point is 00:13:13 Yeah, it was probably probably five right? Four or five. Whenever it was two. No. That's it. Yeah, we're man to man. So much work because so we organized, Jessica're, we're man to man. So much work. Cause so we organized, Jessica and I organized our weeks now to where one,

Starting point is 00:13:28 one or two days a week. So her and I will have a day where we're out, uh, like I'm not working, but I'm out or one day where she's just off, right? So last week it was, uh, Thursday. So Thursday it was me and the kids all day, me and the little ones all day long. And I tell you what, man, I have so much respect for stay at home parents. No way in hell would I do that. No, it is so demanding and just nonstop.

Starting point is 00:13:51 And my kids are everywhere. And all you do is feed them and clean up after them. That's basically it. 90% of time is feeding them and cleaning up after them. Now, have you guys, have you guys got to a place where you guys actually have to schedule sex or can you, can it, can it, okay. It happens organically still for you. I feel like that's not on the calendar.

Starting point is 00:14:06 That's when it gets rough. Right. Who I just saw one of our like friends that we know in the pot is there was a bin that viral, was that Ben, you know, that's Ben dude. He's probably it was Ben. So Ben, such a Ben thing. You have different titles. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:18 I feel like, like, well, I mean, he was presenting it like it's like, it's like, it breaks it down. Like it's a good thing where I feel like if like, I feel like Katrina and I have a talk like, Hey, if we get to the point where we had to schedule sex, like we need therapy or we need to work on something. You can also make it fun if it's schedule. Think about that. Imagine if you looked at your calendar right now,

Starting point is 00:14:33 you're like four o'clock. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? And then you start, you know, get ready for it. No, no, no. Code name date. I mean, it doesn't mean that there's not times

Starting point is 00:14:40 where like, her and I are like, Hey, Friday we're going off to whatever and someone's watching the kid. And so obviously I know what's going to happen. But you don't say it. Yeah. Well, and then there's also plenty of times leading up to that where it happens. So just, I, if it got to a point in our relationship where I felt I needed a

Starting point is 00:14:56 calendar sex, I feel like there's more going on in the relationship than just fucking busy. You know what though? It, here's what trips me out. Like my grandparents or my parents, my dad, my dad grew up, let's see, how many siblings? Six siblings in like two bedrooms? Where does parents have sex?

Starting point is 00:15:12 How did they find a way to have sex to have the other three kids? How did that happen? My grandfather lived with everybody in the room. My grandfather lived in a cement room about as big as this with eight siblings. Apparently, all he needs is a sleeping bag. And a donkey in the same room.

Starting point is 00:15:26 How does parents keep having kids? That's what I want to know. They going around the corner, come back, you know? So it works. Yeah, I guess. That's my whole point. Anyway, I was going to ask you, Adam, when you were body building tip top, just jacked, right?

Starting point is 00:15:37 Oh, here comes. I'm going to go to the chat right now. What percentage of comments in the gym came from men? And what percentage of comments came from women? The same amount when I drive a cool car. Yes, it's all dudes. I think it's one of the funniest things ever, is that the stuff that men do.

Starting point is 00:15:52 Women don't give a shit. To get attention from women. Tracks of their dudes. It only attracts other dudes. No chick has ever walked up to me in the best shape of my life. I tell you what, the only time I got attention like that was Las Vegas after the show, and we're out on the pool.

Starting point is 00:16:04 That's why you remember it. That's right, it's the most memorable day of my life because for the first time in my life, all that work I'd put in, finally, oh look, some bunch of women finally paid attention to notice. All the other times in the gym has always been a man walking up to me and say, oh man, nice whatever. You know what I'm saying, make a comment.

Starting point is 00:16:20 It happened to me today, I walked up to me. He's like, you know, so I can put my headphones down. He's like, your shoulder's round I can put my headphones down He's like your shoulders round, bro You want feeling I mean, I like the compliment but I'm also like, okay Yeah, what is it? What is it for so what do women do that? That's the same Is there is there something on the woman's side that she does to get to get men's attention? But it only gets other women's attention. Was that was it work on the reverse? Probably shoes. What do you think?

Starting point is 00:16:45 I understand. Well, I just heard this recently that a lot of plastic surgery is really done, discouraged by their partners. Yeah. So that's good for women. I believe that. Yeah. I believe that.

Starting point is 00:16:57 I believe that for sure. Like I, I, I meant, in fact, I had a girlfriend one time where she, this was back, this was before the lip injection thing became like a real popular thing where everybody was doing it. It was like kind of new. This is like 15, 15 years ago, right? So, and she really wanted to get done. I'm like, why, you have great lips. There's no reason, why would you do that?

Starting point is 00:17:15 And she's, and we actually kind of got into it about it. I'm like, don't do that. And I was gone for vacation for a week. I came back and she had done that. So, and like, if it was for me, like she wouldn't have done that, but it obviously wasn't for me. It was obviously for the attention. That's a good point.

Starting point is 00:17:28 I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Uh, I bet a big percentage of it is that is for, is more, which is the same thing for men, right? You're lifting and you're not really getting attention to women. You're competing with other men. Totally. So it's like the same.

Starting point is 00:17:38 100% it's like that meme. What's that meme where there's a guy who's like, Hey, what machine in here can I use that will get the most attention for women? And then the guy points to the ATM. ATM, yeah. That's the one. Every time. That's the one.

Starting point is 00:17:51 Dude, I almost, so check this out. I anticipated an altercation today too at the gym, so I'm working out. What? I'll tell you. So I'm lifting and the way the parking lot is situated, so I go to UFC Fit every once in a while, right? Good gym, my buddy Don Cardona VP. Do you see him when you go in there?

Starting point is 00:18:06 No, because he's too early. Yeah, it's early. But great gym. It's like great equipment, right? Bodybuilding equipment. They have great racks for powerlifting and weightlifting. We had their staff in here for a bit, didn't we? We did.

Starting point is 00:18:16 We did when we did our launch of our trainer course. So anyway, I'm working out and there's a front parking spot. And then there's like this kind of like weird angled, it's not really a parking spot. It's just like extra space. You ever seen those? Yeah. Where you could probably park a motorcycle in there or whatever. So I parked my car, I go in a workout and I'm in that, in the, in the, the normal spot, right? I come out and some dude literally,

Starting point is 00:18:38 Park like a right. There's no way I could squeeze into my car. So I'm done with my workout. I'm like, am I going to, I'm going to have to go inside and page someone to come out? You know, it's that bad. Oh, so I could, there's no way I could open my car. Somebody did that to me recently too. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:52 So yeah, we were at a school and I thought it was like, I don't know, because there was, I mean, I drove the nicer car and it was like, it was just weird. It was, they were literally right, Like almost like scratching the paint close. And I'm like, who does that? That's on purpose. Yeah. It's gotta be on purpose. Deliberate.

Starting point is 00:19:09 It felt deliberate. So I anticipate an altercation because you feel like this guy did that on purpose because I kind of parked over a little bit knowing that's not a parking spot. So I'm just going to give myself a little more room for the other car. So I'm like, I bet you this guy thought he was being like, he saw me thought I was a dick. So whatever. So I'm like, oh man, I'm asking me an altercation.

Starting point is 00:19:26 So I go inside. I tell the girl, can you please page the owner of the black, whatever, whatever. So she pages it. And to my delight, it's the old, there's this old guy that works out every morning. Oh no. And he's in seventies, right? And he's just old kind of crusty. You're gonna fight a 70 year old guy?

Starting point is 00:19:40 No, but I love it. Right. I'll win for sure. We're gonna lose pages. No fear. Oh, you want to fuck. You're like, I got this. No, I I love it, right? For sure No, he comes out he's pissed off. Oh really? I'm like hey, I don't think that's a parking spot He's like I parked there every morning. Yeah, and he's always old guys I was told what to do and I respect him because I see him working out. He works out hard He's old dude wears a slight sweater when he works out. Hey listen my apologies sir. I probably I'm so I'm giving him respect

Starting point is 00:20:04 You know so he moved the other way. It's just funny to see the older guy. Well, you're such a nice guy. That's nice. Like a seven-year-old man, what am I gonna do? Yeah, fight him. No. What's the cutoff, bro?

Starting point is 00:20:12 Show who's boss. Yeah, what's the cutoff? I mean, you're not a spring chicken anymore. Where's the cutoff of fighting like you do? Because, okay, obviously you fight a 57-year-old guy. What I? What? Come on, a couple of years older than you. That's a couple.

Starting point is 00:20:25 That's a lot. But I feel like if you're the gym, it's usually just like a peacocking thing where you end up like bumping chests, you know, you move your car. Well, I don't know. So you have to see Jim, it could be a MMA guy. I want to know the cutoff. What's there's got to be it? Have you thought about this?

Starting point is 00:20:40 You always got to find this. I feel like they look really old and I'm not going to do anything. If you just look at, yeah, if I look at him, he was like an old, like I've seen him work out. I feel like Jess would really old and I'm not gonna do anything if you just look yeah if I look out He was like an old like I've seen him work out like Jess would probably fight the oldest guy Yeah, no, yeah, yes. No, I feel like just I mean just would beat a guy with a walker Kick the walker I'll say things. Yeah, I'll definitely say no I mean if I if it's an it's always show a lot, I was raised that way. When they're a lot older than you, you just, you get up, you give them your

Starting point is 00:21:09 chair, you say you're sorry. You call them. A decade. 55. If they're fit, yeah, then we're thrown down. But if they're like, like, you know, decrepit, no. Yeah. I feel like there's gotta be like, like an, a point where you don't, you

Starting point is 00:21:24 don't do that, but then it's acceptable. And then what happens if he engages you like that? That old guy doing that? I would have apologized to him. Sorry, sir. Who cares? He must have looked really old then. Yeah, he did.

Starting point is 00:21:35 But you know, he's in there every morning working out. I was so happy that it was him because I'm like, this is going to be some meatheads going to walk out. It's going to be a problem. But it wasn't. Thankfully, it was all good. Anyway. Hey, so this weekend I took my 14 14 year old daughter shooting for I saw that

Starting point is 00:21:50 Video you said I did get a little nervous because she like look back to look at Fearless fearless Or how to do it it is I load it to keep your finger off the floor. Like empowering for him, dude. Yeah, so it's a revolver, it's got a little bit of kick, but she was up there and she's got aim, dude. So you know how you can, when you go to the range,

Starting point is 00:22:14 you can get different targets. You can pay for different kinds of targets. So she wanted to get the ones that have pictures of like, like, you know, bad guys on, okay? I thought it was Donald Trump she was shooting. No, that's what it looked like. No, it's just, bro, they haven't, you know, bad guys on. Okay. I thought it was Donald Trump. She was shooting. No, that's what it looked like. No, it's just, bro, they, they haven't changed you since 1985. All of them look like.

Starting point is 00:22:30 So it's just some eighties. The same guy. Bro, there's one guy, he's holding a gun, but he's got like big shoulder plaid, you know, jacket on or whatever. So you know, this is from the eighties. Yeah. But she's shooting him and then she goes, well, watch this. I'm going to shoot him in his, in his junk and she hit him right.

Starting point is 00:22:43 Right in the dick. Just laser. I'm like, I don't got to worry about and she hit him right in the dick. Just laser dick. I'm like, I don't gotta worry about her at all. I got emotional on the inside. It's my girl. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. I'm right in the junk.

Starting point is 00:22:54 Yeah, you taught her a lot. But we hit the targets and then she's gonna put them up in her room. It's like decoration. Oh, God. That's kind of cool. That is cool. Big boys come over. That's kind of cool right there.

Starting point is 00:23:03 Exactly. I like that idea. 100%. And he's got three small holes cool right there. I see that exactly that's I like that Shills line up a strategy right there. Hey, speaking of Trump. Did you see his sneakers? No, what you didn't see this? No, oh Doug pulled up pull up the new Trump shoes No, he dropped he dropped a collaboration I want to see I want to see oh, think it's his own line. Not a collaboration. Sorry. Oh my God. You see him?

Starting point is 00:23:26 Yeah. Pull him off. Like shoes. I mean, oh, he did the didn't he do the trading card thing too? You got the one down. Is he been hanging out with the con? Not too much. Oh, they're gold.

Starting point is 00:23:37 You know, there's going to be instantly worth a lot of money. So that's why I'm really curious to see how well they did as far. Can you find me some, Andrew, find me some stats on like what? I want to see a close-up of this Trump shoes Wow, yeah, they're golden. They have like kind of like American flag Oh, there we are. There you go. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's that's a lot right there. You know what can I just tell you something right now? I mean, that's like you wear that I thought the red Make America great again hat was like a statement like that You know why he's so smart. You know, why so many influencers you buy that, you know, who's gonna wear those who's gonna wear those

Starting point is 00:24:11 like everybody He's got more pull among the he's got more pull than almost any president ever seen with the hip-hop community with the Community that you know urban like that that those shoes right there gonna be on all over influencers. You think so I Bet ya sold out already sold out. Oh, 400 bucks for a pair for a pair. I mean, that's not too crazy. Only a thousand pairs. Oh, he only did a thousand pairs. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:36 You know, you're going to sell one of those for, oh yeah. Well, no, for sure. I didn't know he did a limited run. That was pretty smart. Oh, that's interesting. Cause those are all, those will resell for more than just, oh, he's got more. He's got the, he's got red ones. He's got white ones.

Starting point is 00:24:51 Wait, what's that perfume? It's a cologne. Okay. So this was always what my, my thought when he first ran for president was always this was a business play. Yeah. It was like, he's going to use this as a way to parlay and to make it himself Dicing everything now. Yeah, no kidding. I'll buy his hairspray

Starting point is 00:25:14 No, you got to switch TV down here now That's gotta be a smart that's a pretty smart strategy. So I'm assuming all the proceeds go to his campaign them Hmm. Oh, that's a good question. I didn't I't know the whole like what the I don't know the whole strategy of what he's doing right now I just I thought again. I thought like his original well look his hat is is the hat that he did is which when I when he first came out with it's so basic, right, but it's one of the most like recognizable political pieces of apparel ever. They've never, no one's ever successful.

Starting point is 00:25:47 That and the Obama shirt. The Obama shirt is one of the most famous shirts ever. That, and you've now seen both of those like red down a thousand times now, right? That's how you know it's like gotten so popular is that how many people have red done that the color way of the red and white riding. Did you guys see, maybe you've seen, you saw this, Justin.

Starting point is 00:26:05 So you know the WEF, right? The World Economic Forum, aka Satan. Anyway, they came out, this was released. So you know in China, they have a social credit score. So for people who don't know, a social credit score in China, they will rank everything that you do that's pro, what the government thinks is a good thing,

Starting point is 00:26:26 or anti what they think is a good thing. In other words, if you do bad stuff, which could be anything from a political post, liking a post, saying something, going to the wrong restaurant, hanging out with people who are not liked by the government who have a low score, all the stuff. And then based off the score in China,

Starting point is 00:26:44 you can, they can prevent you from flying, they can prevent you from pulling money out of the bank, you know, renting a car, buying things. Don't they hit you too for like, if I have a friend, who's got like a low score with that too? It'll get an extra score, yeah. In fact, their phones will alert. My phone will beep when I'm near someone

Starting point is 00:27:01 that has a low score and I have to move away from them. Otherwise my score will go down. This is how they're score. Anyway, so people here in the U.S. are like, Oh my God, that's dystopian. That would be terrible if we ever did something like that here. Well, they are talking about, and I'll read to you, they're talking about a social ESG score. Oh wow. Social ESG score. Yeah. So ESG is, um, you know, this is their, their credit score, right? Like,

Starting point is 00:27:27 and I'll read to you what it says here. So they're comparing it to a personal credit score. But this is about, um, this is about understanding a person's risk, uh, when it comes to other decisions that they make. So companies are of the view that a person who is not dedicated to corporate sustainability cannot be entrusted with the task. So I'll read to you what it says here. A personal ESG score works like a credit score, but it differs fundamentally because it rates an individual's ESG risk. So that's what it was, that equity. What does ESG stand for?

Starting point is 00:28:00 Equity, social, and then, I forget what else. Yeah, environmental, social, and then something else. Yeah. Environmental, social, and governance. There it is. So if you, you know, don't do the right thing or whatever, your social ESG score will get hammered and then they're trying to find a way to get this, like companies to have to react to this. So they're trying to pressure like your Facebooks and your Twitter. Well, did you see what Disney just recently with Elon Musk?

Starting point is 00:28:24 No, that was crazy. That was all ESG type stuff, wasn't it? They leaked out, I guess, some emails on their way of accomplishing diversity and stuff like that. That's very... I sent it to Sal, but I don't think I sent it to the group. Did you see that, Justin? No, I didn't see that. I don't know if I went all over that type of stuff.

Starting point is 00:28:39 But, yeah, I know. So, you know, Jon Stewart's back on a daily show for like one day a week. And he's kind of, you know, he's, he's bringing it back, trying to bring some levity to the whole, we're going back into this election cycle and like, he's making fun of both sides and like, you know, everybody's. So he had a show, I guess on Apple that, uh, they ran a few, uh, pilots and they, they pulled it and they're like, why did he pull it? And I guess because of the ties between like China

Starting point is 00:29:08 and they were talking about AI and China, one of his like upcoming episodes and like basically got the crackdown. Like they got a message to handle this because it wasn't gonna put them in a good light. So like they basically got pressured to drop his series from a map, which is crazy that they have that kind of leverage, you know?

Starting point is 00:29:28 But they do a lot of business, obviously in China. So he did a good job. His political humor was like brilliant back in the day. And whether you agree with him or not, he did it in such a way that I thought was really smart. Yeah, it was really, really smart. I never really followed him that much. Really?

Starting point is 00:29:42 He's really good. He does a good job of, I don't agree with a lot of his takes, but I like the way he presents them. He does it in a way where, and I can appreciate that. I mean, who would you compare? Is he Bill Maher-esque? Bill Maher's way more crass, way more. But Bill Maher also, I'll appreciate some of the stuff

Starting point is 00:29:58 he says, because he seems to be pretty consistent and somewhat balanced. It doesn't seem like he's all, like he'll change his tune just cause he's supposed to type of deal. Yeah, yeah, just, he's definitely, I mean, satire and he's pretty good at like just taking the news and putting kind of a funny take on it. But, you know, he obviously has his own bias

Starting point is 00:30:19 that it comes through a bit, but yeah, it's... I remember when we used to think that the decentralized internet would make everybody so, uh, more, so much more free, less controlled, but they're, they're using it now to really find ways of controlling people, especially with like facial recognition technology and all that stuff. It's, I mean, it's concerning, right? I mean, I can't believe more people aren't concerned about this whole thing. Well, think about this score. It's like, dude, it's a real possibility.

Starting point is 00:30:45 Think about this way. You try to get a loan, you try to buy something, your credit score pops up. And that is to let lenders know. I mean, it's already kind of crazy when you do that. Right. Now, that alone, that kind of makes sense. Okay. But your credit score doesn't follow you to like, you're going to get on a dating

Starting point is 00:31:01 site or you're going to meet someone or. Yeah, but it's, it's so fucked up how they decide like what you're going to get on a dating site or you're going to meet someone or it's, it's so fucked up how they decide like what you're going to get hit like four or like how bad like it can definitely be messed up. Oh yeah. It's like, no, I'm not a fan of like how we even structured that. Like it makes sense to if you're going to go to other creditors that you should have some sort of tracking of your history, but it's, it's an arbitrary number. That's bullshit. Like one of the things that killed me was when I short sold my first house, when I was 20 something years old, like that fucked me for like seven years.

Starting point is 00:31:30 I had never in my entire life, right? So I had cards and credit went from very early age. It's one hit, one hit. And it was a short sell. Like something that I decided to do. What did your credit score go down? Oh, bro, I was a seven, 15. It moved me all the way down to 400 and something. Wow.

Starting point is 00:31:45 And then one thing. And then what, why it's such bullshit is that once it hits you like that, then nobody wants to touch you. And so the only way to rebuild your credit is to get more credit and prove you get, I could give you like a cable bill. Bro, there was a point, there was a point, okay, years later, I don't know how many years later, this was, I want to say it's like four or five years later where I had always banked with Bank of America. I had over $100,000 in this account.

Starting point is 00:32:08 And I couldn't get a prepaid credit card for $500 from Bank of America. Who I, yes. That's crazy. It was, I got denied. That's how fucked up it is. It's like one thing that had happened and all the things that I had done.

Starting point is 00:32:22 So now take that to the millionth degree with this social credit score idea. That's why it's crazy. It's crazy that people think it would be an okay idea. Do you guys, like on Venmo, you know how you can do like a public like transact, like you could show like what you're buying and all like, I'm so uncomfortable with that.

Starting point is 00:32:38 I'm always like private, but some people like, you know, they take full advantage of that and kind of, I don't know if it's like bragging or why that feature is even in there. But I heard one of the parents actually talking about the other day, I was laughing because this guy realized that like people were following his transactions. And so he started to like, you know, buy fake, like really inappropriate stuff, like mass and like, you know, like, like a lot of sexual things and like, you know, to, to, to create this like really weird, bizarre persona in there. And like,

Starting point is 00:33:10 I don't know what the point of I don't even know. I don't know. So, so yeah, like my Venmo, I have private, right? So nobody can see. Why would someone want it to be? But most it's the default is public. So I don't, anybody can follow you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:22 Or yeah. So they see your, your. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's structured like social media in the sense of like, I, if I, if I do a Venmo transaction to you, do you have Venmo or no? No. Oh, you don't even have them. Okay. So if you have like a Venmo, the same way I would look you up to send you money is just like on Instagram. You'd have an at Sal de Stefano. Oh. And then I would just send that money there. That's a social network. Yes.

Starting point is 00:33:42 Literally why? Yeah. I mean, so it's kind of, but nobody uses it like that. As far as I know, but maybe that's maybe I'm being a boomer right now. Like maybe it is like this super popular. I think some people are into it. I'm like, again, that's why I bring that up because I'm trying to find out like, what's the, what's the hook there? Like, why are people trying to flex or something? Yeah, right? I don't know. I mean, Andrew, you're way younger than we are. Is that like a thing? Like, do you guys like, it's just the social network thing. But I mean, do you use it like that? No. Like, Andrew, you're way younger than we are. Is that like a thing? Like, do you guys like? It's just the social network thing. But I mean, do you use it like that? No. Like, yeah, you find yourself like scrolling through people's

Starting point is 00:34:09 Venmos, do you? No, not at all. I mean, you remember, so in China, they have, I forget the name of the, the, the platform, but it's, it's like a PayPal, Instagram meets like all. Yeah. Yeah. I remember. Isn't that what originally what Elon's plan for Twitter was,

Starting point is 00:34:25 was to make it this like, especially with this WeChat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:29 Yeah. It's called WeChat. Yeah. Right. And now that is like Instagram meets Venmo meets all of it together. So then I guess it makes sense if you can create a platform like that, where it's all in one, but to, and maybe, maybe Venmo thought that maybe when they, when they did it, they thought, oh, maybe we could rival Instagram and Facebook and these other social platforms.

Starting point is 00:34:49 But I've always thought that was interesting why people even want their stuff. Why you would want that public unless it is like a flex. No idea. I don't know. I don't, I always do like, whenever I have to pay someone, I always make something up. That's really like terrible. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:03 I do always like, see if I gotta pay somebody on Venmo. Foot massage, foot parentheses. I'm. Yeah. I do always like, see, if I gotta pay somebody on fit, massage, I'm way worse. I say some, if your shit's public and you fucking need me to pay you, you're fucked. So yeah, really outrageous shit on there. Cause just for that reason, cause I think it's hilarious. I think it's like, okay, if you're gonna put it public, then I'm gonna put some weird shit on it. Oh man, speaking of networks and stuff. So there's this article with viral.

Starting point is 00:35:27 I cracked up when I saw this mom is suing this Christian school because they're banning her from taking her kids there. You guys want to guess why? Yeah, fans only. Yeah, dude. She tried. Well, no, it's not just that. She drops them off in her, I don't know, she drives an Escalade.

Starting point is 00:35:44 And on the back of it, is her link, her big ass link on the back window. Interesting. And then she's suing them, like what do you think was gonna happen? Well, it's a private school. Yeah. They have the right to say no, right?

Starting point is 00:35:55 They do, but what do you think is gonna happen? You pose nude on a site, you drop your kids off. The other parents can see you. What do you think about that? Like I've thought about that before, like some of these, I mean, we obviously know a lot of people. I just feel bad for the kids. Well, I know. So that, so what do you think? I mean, that's going to be like the, the, the, the big thing that kids in high school get bullied of like your mom who's on the, you know, it's

Starting point is 00:36:15 happening, dude. Oh yeah. Oh, a hundred. I mean, if it's not already a popular thing that happening now, it will be because the only fans is really only blown up in the, what, the last five years. Yeah. So give it some time in the next, you know, 10 years when like so many people have been doing it for a long time, like in your and I can only imagine the kid going to school. Full your mom. I know. I know. They go into full description and be like, oh, plus it doesn't go away.

Starting point is 00:36:39 It's digital. Yeah. You know, it's not like a magazine where it's like, okay, let's wait a few years and the things out of circulation. There it is right there. Oh, it said was that Durango? Yeah, that's her. That's her. Yeah, only fans. Yeah Hyper fawns. Of course. They're gonna all it's pretty deliberate. Of course. Now, you know, it's funny about this We ever handle so we can check. Yeah, we do. I wonder a I wonder if just ask she's suing me to help her out I wonder if she's suing them so that this becomes an article so that she gets more. I tell you what, I bet you she got a shit ton of it.

Starting point is 00:37:08 Brilliant. It is. What did I just say? I mean, what's her handle? And if that's her play, like smart business woman. Like if that, like if she knows like the lawsuit's going to go nowhere, but it's going to make the news because she's doing that. Is she that smart?

Starting point is 00:37:20 That's like really, that's like 3D chess. That's 3D chess. If she's like, I know I'm not going to win this, but I'm going to make a big fuss about it because it's going to give me all this. That's her right there. Right here. That literally looks like somebody's mom.

Starting point is 00:37:33 Not the most flattering photo. Like Justin. You're a good guy. Come on, dude. Justin just said that literally looks like someone's mom. It is. I know, but it's not like, you know. How many followers does she have?

Starting point is 00:37:45 Can we, can you see that on there? Like, you know, I mean, she likes, but can you see? Yeah. There's only fans that you see followers and stuff like that, I don't know. Hey, Doug, you're subscribed. I saw. It says, welcome back.

Starting point is 00:37:54 My dark little secret here. Dougie. Welcome back, Dougie. I appreciate all the Amazon gifts. Fucking Doug. Yes. Fucking Doug. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:38:04 Hell of a DM's there. I saw a stat, so here's the worst part about it, because here's the thing, if your mom's an only fans and she's balling, you know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, it sucks, it's embarrassing, but it's like, yeah, mom's balling, so I get to drive a Porsche to school, so whatever.

Starting point is 00:38:18 But I think the percentage of women that actually make good money. Tiny. It's so. Tiny, tiny, tiny. Yes. It's like 95% make hardly anything. Oh my God, I heard of, I read another story. So if I feel like, if I'm a mom and I'm gonna make the move,

Starting point is 00:38:34 if I'm gonna commit to doing something like that, it was like the sleeve tattoo for me. Like I waited until I was like- I'm never working for you. I'm never working for you. You're gonna be a chef for a self-employed. Bro, 100%, like I wanted a sleeve tattoo when I was like 17 years old. And I was like, I better remember my ass first.

Starting point is 00:38:51 I won't need to get a job somewhere. Obviously, back then it's different now, right? It's more accepted. But I literally had that same thought process of like, wait, I need to make sure that I'm good. Dude, I saw another article. This woman had an only fans and she had this top, like, I don't, what do they call them? Top fan? I don good dude. I saw another article of this this woman had an only fans and She she had this top like what do they call them top fan? I don't know this guy would talk to her

Starting point is 00:39:25 It's called it what do they call them? John. John, okay. So I don't know if, anyway. So this woman kept having this man would talk to her every day, give her money every single day, whatever. She, he would say, he said a couple of things to her that made her kind of, her hair stand on end. She's like, what? So she did a little research. It was her stepfather. She found out her actual stepfather.

Starting point is 00:39:43 I saw that. Was contacting her and watching her and commenting and donating to her. Yeah. Disgusting. Just based off of like top porn videos, you know, that's, that's happening all the time. It's like, it's always white. Yeah. Step mom, your step mom, step dad, step something that's always like a top, a top video or what like that. You see a lot of crossover too between that, that going on where you see this on like on Pornhub where there is only fans. Don't act like you don't know. I haven't been on for a long time. I told you. It's been a while. Oh, it's been a long time. Really? Yeah. Wow. It's been a

Starting point is 00:40:18 long time. I mean, I never was. So it's like not a big deal to me to like to not to not go without that. But now do you know, do you know very many people that like that's a like a major thing Or is that something like that nobody ever shares like nobody talks about that. It's a big problem It's a big problem It's massive remember when we looked up the viewer the views on it is like well No, just do my research on how it affects the brain how it affects relationships how it affects society It we are literally dealing with so it's worse than a drug because it is also modifying and dealing with a innate human driver.

Starting point is 00:40:52 So you see how bad food is, right? How bad it's, how much obesity is spread and it's like a majority of people because this, you know, these hyper palatable foods are also dealing with an innate driver. Cocaine is not dealing with an innate driver. Alcohol isn't dealing with an innate driver. Cocaine is not dealing with an innate driver. Alcohol isn't dealing with an innate driver. Heroin isn't dealing with an innate driver. Pornography is dealing with an innate human, you know, something that drives us as humans. So the data on it coming back is just, it's insane.

Starting point is 00:41:16 I never thought it was like as like terrible, but I started as I started doing research, I was like, this is this is not good. Interesting that you would compare it to drugs and being worse. The way that it affects the brain, when they do brain scans, it affects behaviors. I mean, is the drugs are like that though too? They are, but they're, but it's, uh, if you look at the data again on how it affects just other behaviors, um, I mean, where I would, the argument I would make that it's as bad or worse is that it like food, it's accepted. Right? So there's this,

Starting point is 00:41:46 that's the other side of it. So the acceptance around it is like, cause you're not, you don't, you don't, you don't log into a porn site and go like, Oh, I'm doing a line of coke right now. You don't think like that. Just like when you go to the refrigerator and for the third time in a row in an hour, you don't go like, Oh, I'm doing a line. You don't, you just think you're eating food and no big deal,

Starting point is 00:42:03 or you go numb to it. You don't think about it You think you justify that it's it's food and you need it. I feel like that's kind of where no and it's got the classic Like taller build up a tolerance need new novelty for more stimulation withdrawal. It's all classic drug symptoms Pretty crap. I'm trying to find a expert to come on the show talk about you've talked about I think that would actually be a really interesting conversation. Just cause I, you know, whenever we bring it up, like I don't, we don't talk about this really on the show. But we all, I always get lots of DMs afterwards of young men that struggle with it.

Starting point is 00:42:34 Big time. Yeah. Almost every time, every time we talk about it, we, so here's the deal. We didn't grow up with it. So it didn't mold and model our brains like it is to these young kids. These young kids are exposed to it at 10, 11. This is cause it was hard to get. Yeah. It was very hard. Well, and imagine two, like obviously is to these young kids. These young kids are exposed to it at 10, 11. This is just because it was hard to get. It was very hard to get.

Starting point is 00:42:46 Well, and imagine too, like obviously, we're not the only person that's talked about it in a negative light. When it was new, like nobody was probably talking about that at all. It was just like, you know, it's just getting, for a kid, a young man, getting all that access, it's like just dumping a bunch of candy in his lap.

Starting point is 00:43:03 And be like, hey, don't worry, there's gonna be any consequences to this at all. And it's also, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of direction we go with that, but I want to have an expert on the show to really break down. You know, where you can look, there was a, there was a documentary, I bet you could find somebody that from like, if I, if you remember that documentary that was not that

Starting point is 00:43:17 long ago, I forget it was all, it was all on the, I think the big lawsuit that happened with porn hub. Oh, you guys talked about it. And definitely. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Yeah. Look up that because there, I do believe they had experts. There's a woman who wrote the book. I think it's called dopamine. Dopamine nation. Is that it? Look that up, Doug. Uh, I'm trying, I'm, I'm trying to see if I can get her on

Starting point is 00:43:34 cause she's local and she's a professor. Money shot. That's what it was. Money shot. I bet. Look at dopamine nation, Doug. If that's a book, I don't know, I might be wrong here, but there's a, uh, a professor, a researcher who's, who I've heard and, uh, I'd like to get. Yeah. There's a book, I don't know, I might be wrong here, but there's a professor, a researcher who's who I've heard and I'd like to get there.

Starting point is 00:43:48 Yeah, there's a book by Anna Lem. Oh, I've seen that. That's the one. I've seen that book before. Dopamine Nation, correct. Yeah. Is that what that's, that is, I've seen that book. I've seen people reading that book before.

Starting point is 00:43:58 It's not just about porn. Okay, it's about all. It's about how the modern life is so driven and geared towards dopamine, right? Um, and how it's affecting us. So I, I, okay. So I bet this book gets into this. I think which is up there, which is just as scary as the way we consume content. Yep.

Starting point is 00:44:14 Because again, back to the like food point, like nobody, nobody goes on TikTok, right? And go like, Oh, this is so damaging. It's like, maybe you go like, Oh man, it's a guilty pleasure or whatever that you do, but we've, we're, we're slowly training this generation coming up to not be able to sit and listen to an hour conversation or watch a movie. The scroll, the guy who like created that has like crazy remorse over it, uh, because of the effects psychologically, like where we're at. Is that true? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:44 Watch a bunch of 14 year olds hang out with each other. They'll hang out with each other and then get on the phones. Yeah. It's wild. I find it with us. There's no ending to things. Video games, no ending. The most embarrassing thing I ever catch any of us do

Starting point is 00:44:55 is when we go out to lunch together and then. And then we end up on our phones. Oh. Oh yeah. It's like. I know. Yeah, I put my phone upside down, I put it like out in front because it's weird.

Starting point is 00:45:07 And we're all old dudes who grew up with it. You know what's funny? Somebody made a comment to me one time when I was doing that, that I was trying to hide something and I thought, oh, that's really interesting that you interpret that. Oh, turn your phone upside down? Yes. No, it's because it's more alluring. Yes.

Starting point is 00:45:21 Because you can see an alert or it'll get light up or something like that. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's not cause I'm trying to hide for myself. It was like, well, I'm trying to hide is my own alerts telling me. Cause if it's, it's already hard enough, you know, if I feel it, that's why I take it out of my pocket and then put it out and then turn it over. So I can't see it. Now she literally turns her phone off and she'll tell me I'm turning my phone off so I know I can't get a holder and she puts it in a drawer

Starting point is 00:45:44 and she wrote her whole schedule now in a paper planner and she's like if I don't turn it off I end up popping on it and it's like huge improvement to her quality of life doing that. I didn't know that's what that book that makes me want to read that book. So hey speaking of studies and trials I looked into remember how I talked about this while ago how Caldera did a clinical trial on their products and like how it affected people's skin. Yeah, it was like 90% of men said that. It was one of the best.

Starting point is 00:46:11 So I didn't realize just how good the trial was. I'll pull it up to you. This was most skincare trials. I don't know if you guys know this or not, are like, you know, 10 people for 30 days or whatever. They did a US clinical trial. They did it with a US.S. clinical research firm. It was an eight week study, not four week,

Starting point is 00:46:29 and they did it with 53 male volunteers, 37 to 64, and it was a mix of ethnicity, skin tones, facial hair types, it was dry skin, normal skin, oily skin. And yes, 90 plus percent of people noticed improvements in fine lines and wrinkles, elasticity, oily skin. And yes, 90 plus percent of people noticed improvements in fine lines and wrinkles, elasticity, skin health. They have a before and after on their page. You guys got to see what it looks like. And this is after eight weeks of using their products. Oh, but they funded a study. Like that's a,

Starting point is 00:46:59 how much do you factor in that most dudes like have done zero? Yeah, right? Like absolute zero. And then all of a sudden they just try a little bit. Yeah. We had like the client who never worked out before. Yeah. And they're doing some terrible work. They're gonna make an impact on me.

Starting point is 00:47:11 We had 50 dudes wash their face. Yeah. Amazing results. Look at this crazy. I can't believe this happened. So I didn't know that's interesting. Like other skincare health, skincare products like. They that's interesting. I like other skincare health skincare products like they're crap studies, like five people, six people.

Starting point is 00:47:29 And they'll pick it. Yeah, it's not, there's, there's just an actual I imagine just like the supplement industry, there's the same type of pixie dusting, right? I bet in the, in the skincare, cause the regulation is similar too, right? Is there, is there's nothing that's there? It's not heavily regulated.

Starting point is 00:47:42 Is it, or is it heavily regulated? It's more regulated in the supplement industry for sure, but skin care is not, they, they don't consider the skin. That's so weird to me. So something. So you can eat, if you ate some of the chemical, like if you eat something, then you have to be very careful with what you put in your products. If you put it on your skin, they don't consider like you absorbing it. As long as it doesn't cause it.

Starting point is 00:48:02 I'm sure there's been a lot of real problems like with people ordering from like Amazon and getting products that are like, they basically have all these chemicals in it that, um, you know, cheapens the product in terms of making it more profitable, but it's like toxic. Uh, I read a story. Well, so that, so to your point though, that would make more sense that the supplements would be more regulated and the skin, the skin care would be less regular, but it's the other way around skin care is more

Starting point is 00:48:28 regular skin care is not regulated super well. No, no, it's not. I know it's not. I know it's not hard. It's not like medical. No, in fact, I read an article about a young man who was using his mom's skin care products. And so I'll make, I'll let me back up a little. I just gave away the punchline, but he was developing gynecomastia. So he was developing breast tissue at the age of 17, which is a little old, right? If a young man develops any breast tissue

Starting point is 00:48:54 from excess testosterone, typically it happens around 14, 15. Well, anyway, he's 17, it's happening, it keeps growing, goes to the doctor, they can't figure out what's going on. The doctor, very smart hormone specialist said, are you using any skincare or hair care products? He was using his mom's skincare products. That's what was causing the breast tissue. And would they have like estrogen in it or something like that?

Starting point is 00:49:14 These chemicals, they're Xenoestrogens. They attach to the estrogen receptor and the estrogen receptor expresses itself. Not like estrogen, weekly, it's not a strong binding, but it's enough a strong binding, but it's enough to cause problems. So women might go fly under the radar because they don't notice, right?

Starting point is 00:49:29 Or they could have period issues or mood issues or nothing, not see anything, but there's actually stuff happening behind the scenes. So you gotta be careful. Hey, did you guys watch Love is Blind after I told you? No, no, so what's up with this? It's like my guilty point.

Starting point is 00:49:42 Is it just terrible? I don't want to ruin it. So you guys go watch this. Love is Blind? Yes, that's stupid. A new one? Yeah, it's like, do they do? It's like my guilty part. Is it just terrible? I don't want to ruin it, so you guys go watch it. Love is blind? Yes, that's stupid. A new one? It's so dumb, bro. They do them all the time. It's the worst.

Starting point is 00:49:50 I've seen the other first season. Yeah, it's my. They fall in love, so they're so fake, right? It's, I mean, I think it's interesting. I think the idea of having to communicate for whatever amount of dates that they do it without seeing each other. I find that experiment interesting.

Starting point is 00:50:08 But, and then I always think it's so funny, like when they, when they actually interact, then they get together afterwards. And so there's a guy, I don't, I don't want to ruin it, but I feel like you're not going to watch it. So I'm going to share anyways, there's this guy who's got, he's down to like two girls and he's having such a hard time.

Starting point is 00:50:22 And I think they're told, I think they told, I think they're told that, hey, this experiment is supposed to be completely blind. And so I think they discourage the people from sharing anything physical. Could you ever notice that no one ever does that? Like you would think there'd be some super, superficial person. I don't think they're allowed to.

Starting point is 00:50:39 Yeah, I don't think so either. So I think they like stay like really vague with that. And you're not supposed to ask questions like, how tall are you? What's your skin color? What ethnicity? I think I don't think you would have stepped on a scale. Yeah. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:50:51 What would the, so I think they, they discourage that, but this one guy was really, this guy came down to the last two people and this girl. So it was like the right before, like the, like him having to like really decide. Now, physically, were they comparable? No. Oh, this was like, one of them was like, like bad. She was like a dime. And then the other one was like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:09 And the funny. So you're watching this. Yeah. Yeah. So watching it. Pick door number two. And so in like just natural conversation they're talking about, I don't remember how it exactly came up, but someone made a comment like, Oh, do you have a doppelganger

Starting point is 00:51:22 or is anybody says you look like someone? And she goes, she goes, oh yeah. And she, and he's like, what, what, who? Like, and he's like, who, what, you a doppelganger or is anybody says you look like someone? And she goes, she goes, Oh, yeah. And she and he's like, what, what, who, like, and he's like, who, what, you know, some people say I look like Megan Fox. Now, was this the hot one? And you see the look on his face like, he gets all excited and you're watching as you're like, Oh boy, if he did, he picked her and you're just like, and you know that played a role. He was so

Starting point is 00:51:44 torn between these two girls That's it right there. That's it. That's the no you don't look like Yeah, yeah, she's not bad. Well, I want to see the other one. Well, no the other one Yeah, show the show the can you see the one that he could have picked? Well, you're also okay. She's that's also like a pick Yeah, not our entire physique either. Yeah, so she's not nowhere near I would feel so bad being on that show and then you do the big reveal after you're like, yes, I picked this one. And then they see each other to not show on my face how I feel.

Starting point is 00:52:13 You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, have they had one where they go to meet? Oh, yeah. You can tell. Like that's like my contrived and I's favorite thing to do about this show. Right.

Starting point is 00:52:24 It's like, this is our like you'll want and be like, okay. What's the reaction of like? Oh, he's gonna be pit like and that was like the big joke between her. Oh boy So you're gonna be let down when he was at door doesn't see Megan Fox on the other side Especially when the one can you find me Andrew the one that he was The girl that he was supposed to be there was a name. I think it's I think it was Rachel I think it was those dating show. The worst one I saw. I want to know the ratings on those two because you know that you see that

Starting point is 00:52:50 they've now done Brazil and Africa and like they're, they didn't spin off where they had them and basically like furrier outfits and they sit there in these like costumes and try and get to know each other with these stupid. Like one where they're all where they all had Down syndrome and they were dating each other? Oh yeah, that's Down for love. That's the name of the show, bro. Why?

Starting point is 00:53:12 Love on the Spectrum, that's another one with Austin. Oh, I thought that was, yeah, Love on the Spectrum. But I can't believe that they go there. There's one called Down with Love. Down with Love. No, that's the name of it. Cause Love on the Spectrum is one that I've seen, but I don't know. And it's endearing and it's know, that's the name of it. Cause love on the spectrum is one that I've seen, but I don't know.

Starting point is 00:53:29 And it's endearing and it's like, it's great, but like, yeah, it was just like, at what point do you feel like it's exploitive at all? You know, and it's like, uh, I mean, I, so I think all of it's interesting to me. Cause this is just, this is welcome to the internet. Like this is what the internet has connected so many people and it's only a reflection of us. I would like to see all of this stuff. It's a reflection of us. Yes. I, that all of this stuff. It's a reflection of us. Yes.

Starting point is 00:53:46 That's the one down for love. Oh, it is. Oh my God. I can't believe they know. I'm sure it's like sweet and endearing. I've actually, I think I've seen that. But still the name though. Come on guys.

Starting point is 00:53:55 I would like to see one and maybe this exists. I would like to see one. It's a range marriage dating show where the parents meet and pick for each other. Well, they do the ones like, what's, yes, that's her. That's the girl he passed on. Oh, you messed up. Hey, but then he's going to meet her.

Starting point is 00:54:15 Remember when they all go to the pool party? That's why I asked because it's coming up like this week. Oh, yeah. She's going to do the walk by just. Oh, yeah. No, it's coming. So like that's why I was asking because I know Sal and Jess kill watch it. And I was like, did you guys have you guys watch the new one

Starting point is 00:54:30 or what? Because we're looking for some to watch. Watch it because I think Wednesday, whenever. When is this drop? This drops Wednesday. Is this Wednesday? Oh, this episode? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:39 Yeah. This Friday. Okay. So it'll have drops. So I think this Wednesday is when they all as right now. He has no idea I mean, there's no idea at least one trash TV show. I feel like everybody needs one percent There's like oh my favorite one of all time was like rock of love with Brett Michael. Yes, of course you like That shows ridiculous. Yeah, it was amazing. Hey, I

Starting point is 00:55:00 Before we sign off here. I wanted to bring up Legion's new sleep product. They changed their lunar product Oh, so they changed it and added a couple things added Gabba, which have you guys ever used Gabba before sleep? Yes. Yeah, I mean very good. Oh, like it puts me what's in my I believe that's in Mello It might have Gabba. Yeah, it's the anine Gabba and the magnesium. Yeah, so Gabba is an Inhibitory neurotransmitter so it really shuts and slows things down, relaxes the body. So they added that to it. And then what I like about it is he also have melatonin. He does, but he does. He puts the right

Starting point is 00:55:32 amount of melatonin. You know, every product puts so much freaking melatonin in it that not good. It'll get a negative feedback loop. Your body will stop making it. So this has 0.5 milligrams, which is what you're supposed to do. Okay, so explain to me, so three milligrams or five so explain to me how. Not the three milligrams or five milligrams. Explain to me, because I've heard like,

Starting point is 00:55:49 so would that be considered a micro dose of melatonin? That's considered the appropriate dose. If you look at the melatonin study. Well, I've also heard this though. I've also heard like, if you are like jet lagged, really bad, you take a mega dose. Different. Okay, we'll explain the difference here.

Starting point is 00:56:01 Because you're trying to reset your circadian rhythm. So you take a fat dose of melatonin. When you're supplementing your own melatonin at night, you don't want a big, in fact, if you take a big dose, what you'll find, a lot of people find this either, hey, they wake up groggy or they wake up in the middle of the night once the big dose of melatonin wears off.

Starting point is 00:56:17 That's why I've never liked taking melatonin is because, I mean, I better not have anything to do in the morning. That's how I feel. If I have to fall asleep I think get up early or have like a get up on a schedule like it's not no So he makes the so in the one he made now with the lunar is chewable tablets that taste they taste really good Actually, or is it seem like the move is like the gummies chewable like are we all

Starting point is 00:56:38 Some of the companies are moving that direction seems I mean I love I like it as a guy who doesn't like taking pills already Oh, yeah, it's the I love the gummies and I think it helps with compliance. I would love to see a study on that. I bet it does. Of course it does. If you like to taste the song, solving pills every day, it was brutal. Yeah. Yeah. I was on that 20. I just don't like it. I can't jump in. The products that we've had, the companies that have made us chewable products now, which we've had Organifys, Neds and now legions, we crushed them all of us. It's compliance. Doug's right. I think you look forward to the taste of it.

Starting point is 00:57:12 And so you're more likely to take it, you remember it versus a pill, which is, doesn't taste like anything. Yeah. I have a reward instead of just like, so you think it's that it's more like, I thought more of like, uh, if I had to go take a couple of pills, it's like, Oh, I think you think I get a drink or water with it where if it's a chewable. I just throw them I'm not well that's the other thing too. It's probably more convenient. But anyway good It's a good product. So I can't wait to try it. My call always has good products here. Oh shout out We got a shout out Vicky. So every Monday here, we've been this whole is Vicky been coming here

Starting point is 00:57:40 Oh long time now couple years couple years two to three years So every Monday she comes here and she makes us look nice She does the hair and face imagine how terrible we'd look if we didn't have bad So anyway, she has a barber shop in Morgan Hill if you got to see her. She's amazing She's also faded barbershop in so it's faded barbershop calm But it's faded barbershop in Morgan Hill go in there is a faded dot barbershop dot mh Faded Barbershop and Morgan Hill. Is it faded.barbershop.mh on Instagram? In Morgan Hill.

Starting point is 00:58:06 You know, by the way too, she loves it when people say hi. Like there's actually a lot of people who have gone there because they've heard on the podcast and then they don't like people don't say anything. Yeah. And then they find, she finds out later. No, say hi to her. Yeah, say hi.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Tell her you listen to the show. Yeah, say hi for sure. Element is an electrolyte powder that you put in your water. It's got no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has the right amount of sodium to propel you through your workouts. This stuff is great. Most electrolyte powders don't have nearly enough sodium

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Starting point is 00:58:55 Our first caller is Bethany from Kentucky. Hi Bethany. How can we help you? Good morning. How are you? Hey guys. It's nice to see you guys. It's kind of exciting. You know,

Starting point is 00:59:05 I hear everybody they're all nervous stuff and well, I of course got nervous. That's all right. Doug's nervous. Yes. So anyway, just a little bit about my background here is that I'm sitting around the 140 pounds. Been working out for the last 15 years or so. Started with Beachbody, got it really into their programs, added some running, so I've done probably about six half marathons. So I love doing some long distance running. I unfortunately had to stop that

Starting point is 00:59:40 because I had some bad hip flexor and leg issues and just I think age in general. So then Beachbody I feel like was really good because it got me to love working out. I started doing a lot of cardio with that and then transitioned to more of the weights weight slash cardio stuff. Within the last year, I found another person, just an influencer. She was married to one of the trainers that I followed on Beachbody. And she is all about women getting strong, that everybody, you know, everybody should lift. She preaches protein, you know, just right up your alley.

Starting point is 01:00:20 So I did see some changes with my body comp, but I've recently started gaining a little bit of weight in my midsection. I am 47, full menopause. So I started taking some hormone replacements because that was just really throwing my body off. So I've been feeling a lot better with that. So within the last couple of weeks, I've really been focusing on protein intake.

Starting point is 01:00:44 So I've been eating consistently about 130 calories. You know, some days it might be 120, 140, 50. And then so I've been lifting, I'm eating up now I'm eating about 1,700 calories. But I mean, when I first first started it was probably about 1200 calories and then 1500 and then I've just sort of been, you know, listening to you guys increase my calories and then I've been taking creatine for the last couple months now. So my goal is to get some rid of some of the fat that I've, you know, gained a little bit.

Starting point is 01:01:25 So I do work out around five o'clock in the morning. I get myself ready, I get my kids ready, go off to school and then I don't eat until about eight o'clock, eight a.m. So my questions are, is not eating before the workout, causing me not to gain the muscle that I want. I do drink some on the weekends, not excessively and not every weekend, but

Starting point is 01:01:50 is that causing me to gain some weight? And then I've also been looking at some of your programs and which ones would you suggest. Since this question was put in, I did buy the anabolic, I've been doing follow-in nap for the three days, and I am currently just started phase three. Awesome. Are you doing anything in addition to maps anabolic? I've been trying to do some stretches. I've been trying to get my steps. I've been, I'm probably about 8,000 a day, um, sometimes more. Um, but I've been, that's at least my goal. I'm trying to increase that slowly.

Starting point is 01:02:30 So mostly walking. Are you walking? Is that how you're getting your steps? Yes. Yeah. Okay. You're, you're doing a lot. You're doing a lot of the right stuff.

Starting point is 01:02:37 Yeah. You really are. Um, with as far, let me answer that question about the food part. Okay. Usually it doesn't make a difference. Now, if you're noticing kind of a stress response, cortisol elevated, sometimes functional medicine practitioners will recommend that a person either have something right when they wake up or in your case, you wake up so

Starting point is 01:02:59 early, I do the same thing. I wake up at five. They would recommend having something small right after the workout just to Just to you know kind of get the cortisol to come down a little bit But it's probably not making that big of a difference. Do you know you said you're on hormone therapy. How long have you been on that? Probably about six months now. Okay, and has that made a big difference or you progesterone estrogen or just progesterone? Both estrogen and progesterone. I, I was getting hot flashes, brain fog, couldn't remember. Crap.

Starting point is 01:03:30 I mean, it was terrible. Um, so I started that hormone replacement and that has just helped make me feel so much better. Normal anyway. You, you're doing a lot of the right stuff. So much so that I'd actually be concerned about adjusting too much without actually getting like a body fat test. I would love to, because you gotta keep in mind

Starting point is 01:03:50 a couple things going on here, right? Like you've cut out all the running you used to do, so now you've switched out with walking, you're following a two to three day a week program, you've increased calories, also full blown menopause going on right now. So there's a lot of things that are going on and you're doing a lot of the right things.

Starting point is 01:04:07 Yeah, you're doing what I would do with you if you were going on. Exactly. So what I would be worried about is to say, oh, just because maybe you feel like you're carrying a little bit of extra body fat without knowing for sure what happened to the body fat, you know, say a month ago to compare today, you might be right on the right track.

Starting point is 01:04:21 So that would be really helpful and useful. You know, it'll help actually, Bethany. Let's see, when were you at 1200 calories? How long ago? Probably this time last year. So it's been about a year of slowly bumping up to about 1700 and then increasing protein? Yes. Okay. How do you feel now in comparison to before? the the body fat and all that stuff like workout wise I like is how much is your strength gone up? Do you feel more energy is your sleep better? Like are all those signs pointing in one direction or another?

Starting point is 01:04:54 Yes, I have been I mean I sleep I sleep well While I was before the hormone therapy. I was waking up a lot at night So that's really helped a lot. I think the food increase has helped quite a bit When I was at the 1200 calories, I was eating quite quite a bit It's probably same amount of protein, but I was just the calories were just so low you know real low fat chicken breast and ground turkey and that kind of stuff so I've switched some of that up and you know, I'm close to 100 or 1700 calories now and

Starting point is 01:05:31 really haven't gained any weight, but I do feel a lot better. Oh, yeah, I think you're right. Right. It now. So what I would love to do, Bethany, for you, since you're at the phase three of anabolic is give you another program to after this finishes that you can follow. What I would love is a body fat test now and another one in four weeks. I would still want you to continue to slowly bump your caliber.

Starting point is 01:05:55 Yeah, I think I wouldn't want to change. I don't want to change anything until I have that last number because everything you're saying is telling me that you're actually doing really good. You're moving in the right direction. Yeah. You're doing great. And you, you said your body weights 140. How tall are you? Uh, five three.

Starting point is 01:06:10 And your, how's your strength, uh, with maps and a ball. Like, do you, what were you working out with, with like, like your squats and deadlifts and let's say phase one? Um, well, I was doing squats probably, which I'm, I'm real cautious about that. Cause I've got, I've had some lower back pain. So I have one of those like old style powerhouse, like rack things at home. Yeah. Putting, I think I went up to about 80 pounds on the squats. And then deadlift I was about 95. I think so.

Starting point is 01:06:46 Okay. And you're feeling stronger. You're seeing your strength go up. I am slowly, but yeah, but I have been lifting for probably year, year and a half. Yeah. You're doing good. I, and I would slowly, slowly increase your calories.

Starting point is 01:07:00 Let's get you to, you know, over two 22, 2300 calories doing what you're doing now. And then from there you have a lot of flexibility. Yeah. Let, let, let us set, let us set you out with a program. Let's go get a body fat test as soon as we can right now, like in the next week or so. And then again, in four, in four weeks, also we'll have Doug put you in the private forum and then you can give us an update in four weeks. Cause I think we're, I think it sounds like we're all in the same page here. Like, I think everybody's like fearful to change anything.

Starting point is 01:07:31 Cause I think what you're doing is actually really good. I just think we need to get a little bit more data on exactly what's happening because you might just be, and this is always hard by the way, for God, you've probably heard me or us talk about this on the podcast is you're like in that Goldilocks zone where you're really not moving a lot in any direction. Your body weight's kind of staying the same, but you're gradually getting stronger.

Starting point is 01:07:51 So you're gradually building a little bit of muscle. You're also slowly losing a body fat. So you're not seeing major changes, but actually a lot is happening in the positive direction. And so I don't think any of us want to over correct you until we get a little bit more information. Just to give you an idea, uh, Beth, when you were eating 1,200 calories, were you running and doing like more workouts and stuff at that time?

Starting point is 01:08:13 So consider this, you were working out a lot more before trying to burn a ton of calories and eating 500 less calories a day. Right. Today you're eating 500 more calories, working out less, and you feel better. You're doing phenomenal. You're doing really, really well. Like, yeah, if you were my client, I'd be super, like, excited about this. And really, you just stay the course, and you're going to continue to see yourself feel better and change in a very sustainable way. Okay. Yeah. And, you know And you guys talk all the time about

Starting point is 01:08:45 just increasing those calories so that you can have a day every once in a while to enjoy, because before I wasn't getting that. Were you bumping your, did you bump your fats with your new calories? Because it was good. Yeah, when women eat low fat, it wrecks their just overall how they feel.

Starting point is 01:09:05 And it's one of the first things I would do with a client. I'd look at their diet, their fat intake was low. I'd bump their fat intake and it would change things. So you guys think 40 plus maybe? I was just going to ask you, what do you think should we do for the next? As a follow up? Because she's kind of doing that. But the lifestyle guides. I like the 40 plus. Yeah, that's a great program.

Starting point is 01:09:22 Define it a bit further. Either that or symmetry. I thought symmetry too. I didn't want to send her back on the isometrics right now I wanted to kind of keep her ramping up 40 plus. I like 40 plus and then the form Yeah, we're gonna send you a program We'll put you in the forum and then let us know like they follow up with us Beth. Love to hear about how things are going Yes, great. All right. Awesome. Thank you. Great job. I appreciate it. Well, I appreciate it. You got it. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:09:47 That's good. Such a great example of, you know, someone who's doing a really good job, but can how we can get a question themselves, how we can get in our head. Yeah. You know, and what it is is that you just, you don't see that scale moving. Maybe you don't even feel like you see your body changing much in the mirror. But what she's saying, just like you pointed out, eating 500 more calories, not running anymore, moving, moving less, having the ability to have

Starting point is 01:10:11 flexible weekends and have drinks on the weekend and not feel like any, anything's going to get stuck. I mean, doing really, really good. You know, it's funny, I would have clients like this and they, you know, get in their own head and then they'd come to me at some point and say, I just ran into somebody I haven't seen in six months and they asked me, yeah, they said, wow, you lost 15 pounds. I was like, the scale hasn't moved. And like, well, I'm telling you, body composition is changed. That makes such a difference that I actually used to,

Starting point is 01:10:35 that was part of the advice, right? So if I had someone like her and she hears this, go do this, go find somebody who hasn't seen you in the last year and see what they say. And just go, old family, old friend, somebody who hasn't seen you in like a year and tell me that they don't make a comment on how good you reassurance. Yes. Why are people saying I lost weight?

Starting point is 01:10:55 Yeah. Yeah. Or just that you look great. You know what I'm saying? It's like you just sometimes need to hear that from somebody else. That's your girl voice that you do sometimes. It's my favorite. It's great.

Starting point is 01:11:06 Our next caller is Marshall from Florida. Marshall, what's up man? How can we help you? So bye. So boys, good morning. Yeah, happy Ash Wednesday, by the way. Oh, thanks buddy. You too.

Starting point is 01:11:16 Yeah, thank you. What's going on? How can we help you? So my question was back in November, I wrote you guys. I had started doing a different programming. It was full body, two days a week, more of like a powerlifting workout. And I was noticing that

Starting point is 01:11:54 I was getting really sore after my squat days more so than like running a maps program. So really what I'm wondering is, is it due to maybe over intensity or could it be more of a recovery problem that I'm having? I mean, it's both, I guess, the same thing. Intensity is usually the first place we would look if this was the case. Volume being this kind of second thing. What's different? What is different about the workout now when you're squad?

Starting point is 01:12:25 Are you doing more what's that's and reps look like are you training failure? Like what's the difference in the load? So on that program, it was more like a traditional five by five It I was starting out at 60% of my max like in week one. Um, and then it progressed each workout, right? Um, each workout, it would go up 5%. The only difference being on that fifth set, it was, it was like a burnout set to that, that was more of the gauge to, um to see my progress from week to week. And that's the one that made you really sore, Marshall? Marshall, you're obviously not running one of our programs, yeah? It doesn't sound familiar.

Starting point is 01:13:13 So now I am. I've ran all those programs in the past. I have RGB. I did that because, well, for one, I've ran a any kind of power lifting or real Like a strength you want you wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side Pretty much. Yeah. How'd that go for you? How'd that go for you? Yeah, so the soreness is not fun It's fake grass. I'm so I'm back on I'm back on anabolic now. Good and I will say

Starting point is 01:13:50 Whenever I miss a work out or two, uh, due to life circumstances, you know, when I do come back and, and, uh, get back to it, I'll still see that soreness even when I just miss a workout or two. So that's normal. That's normal. This is why you've, and I've talked about this on the podcast many times, like it's still to this day. In fact, we brought it up just the other day again. When I miss a couple of days or a week off of training

Starting point is 01:14:14 and I come back, I always overestimate what I need to do intensity wise. And it's always blows my mind. Like I, after the workout, even with all my experience ago, Jesus, I could have just done two sets and walked away and been plenty good, but I do more because I think I'm fine. And that's a lesson that you're going to continue to learn until you understand that when you, when you have a few days off like that, again, you doesn't take much to send that signal

Starting point is 01:14:38 again. So you just got to do, you do half the volume or half the intensity and because you can always ramp it up the following week. And so you're just, you're overreaching every time you, you get back to your left and you don't need to. Yeah. You, that or deal with the soreness. I mean, uh, that's, but that's normal. You take some time off.

Starting point is 01:14:57 The soreness is worse when you come back, even if it's just a week or a few days. That's, that's totally normal. Not for per, so that is normal. Yeah. It's totally normal. If it persists, then you then we got to look at your programming. It is, it is normal, but I also want to point out it's also a indicator that

Starting point is 01:15:13 you did more than you need to. And so in just, so what Sal is saying is, yeah, you just, it's normal. It happens to everybody. We can work through it. You still want to cut down. Yeah, nothing. But I mean, that should always be this reminder to you. And I, and the reason why I share that on the podcast that like with all of our knowledge and experience, I still do that shit to myself. So that's how normal it is. But it doesn't mean it's right.

Starting point is 01:15:34 Right. So like the self talk I have afterwards is god damn it. Yeah. I should know better. I didn't need to do that. Right. But it's not like some. If sorry to interrupt, but I guess, um,

Starting point is 01:15:47 a question that kind of naturally leads out of that to your point is, you know, and you guys have talked about, it's also normal for, you know, life just to happen and you might miss a week. Yeah. So it's almost as if inconsistency is the norm. Yes. Uh, to an extent. Um, so how am I supposed to expect to make gains if inconsistency is the norm? Listen, we did, we, we shared us. You ever hear us talk about the study where the, the two groups, you had somebody

Starting point is 01:16:21 who, uh, they went for like 18 weeks. They trained every single week for 18 weeks. And there was another group that every, every fourth week, they took that entire week off. And at the end of that study, the people that took the week off every fourth week, got the same results as the group that went every single week all the way through 18 weeks. So the, the slight interruptions here and there are not that as big of a deal as people make it. Now, breaks for weeks, yeah, weeks straight, three weeks in a row.

Starting point is 01:16:49 You can also do this, Marshall. It's like, oh man, I can't go do my normal workout. All I have is 15 minutes. Okay. Do a 15 minute workout or a 10 minute something, right? Or- Yeah, I ended up doing that last night. That's it. I had a long day yesterday. Got back home. We actually just bought a nice little, uh, workout rack with all the essentials about a week ago. So last night it was late. I didn't get to the gym, but I worked out at home and did just the

Starting point is 01:17:18 foundational lifts and that was it. It's great. Something's better than nothing. Right. So do you have maps 15? Cause that program is just incredible for stuff like this. Yeah, I do. And, um, I put my wife on that actually because she's, uh, post part

Starting point is 01:17:35 them right now. So I thought that'd be good for her. Be good for you too. Do the advanced version. Yeah. Watch what happens. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:42 I think too, like, um, in terms of like like when you go back to lifting to Adam's point like the mentality of tapering that down and like really just being disciplined with doing less than what you think You want to to really jump back in full force like you were doing you need to be able to taper that down So you can build upon that again doesn't matter if it feels like it's like you're doing, you need to be able to taper that down. So you can build upon that again, doesn't matter if it feels like it's like you're backtracking, you're not actually backtracking, because now you're, you're giving yourself the right stimulus. So it's all about the right dose in order to kind of keep pushing you forward. So, you know, if you if you

Starting point is 01:18:18 hammer yourself too hard, you're going to have this excess amount of time to recover. And the soreness itself, you know, we can address that. But, you know, to find that sweet spot, you're always trying to find that sweet spot that right dose for you. So that way, you know, frequency is going to be more likely. Because, you know, these interruptions are going to happen. Yes. But if you're not getting in the way of that with restricting your movement because of soreness with, you know, all these kind of patterns, like, you're going to in the way of that with restricting your movement because of soreness with you know

Starting point is 01:18:45 All these kind of patterns like you're gonna feel more energized And this is like a snowball effect that you can build off of so it's it's a totally different man like mindset But you got to start training yourself mentally to do that Yeah, it's definitely a hard mindset to adopt after you know being raised up to think like sorenesses, the, the, the finding factor. I know that now it's, that's not,

Starting point is 01:19:12 but even still, just to come into the workout and you know, kind of just remind myself like, hey, you missed a week, so we need to dial it down. And even during the workout, it doesn't feel like I'm doing a lot already. Just to that point. So 100% you don't lose strength in a week, but you do cause more damage on the comeback workout. Well, especially where it becomes super detrimental is when you have that hard

Starting point is 01:19:40 workout and then you don't want to lift the next day because you're so sore. Like, so that's kind of how I try and get myself in the right mindset is like yesterday. I lifted yesterday and I hadn't lifted it almost a week, right? So yesterday's workout as I'm training the things I'm thinking is like I want to lift today, right? So tomorrow is what I'm thinking yesterday. And so as I'm going through these lifts, I'm going like I don't want to go too much because then if I go really bad, I'm going to not want to lift tomorrow and I care about the consistency of getting back into it, right? So that's kind of what you're telling through these lifts, I'm going like, I don't want to go too much. Cause then if I go really bad, I'm going to not want to lift tomorrow and I care about the consistency of getting back into it.

Starting point is 01:20:06 Right. So that's kind of what you're, you're telling yourself as you're going through it and you think, Oh, I could easily do another set or I could easily add more weights. Like, yeah, but I don't need to, and I'm going to lift tomorrow and I don't want to be so damn sore that I don't want to lift tomorrow. So I need to back off and you can always add later on. Like, so, but you know how, you know, the thing we always say, right?

Starting point is 01:20:24 Do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. So that's the mindset. All right, man. Good stuff. All right, Marshall. Thanks for calling in, bro. Yeah. Thanks so much, guys.

Starting point is 01:20:35 Thanks for your time. Yeah, got it. All right, dude. Soreness is definitely a sign that you don't want to ignore. The problem is that soreness, that people think that Sornus is a sign of a good workout. They're misreading the sign. It is not a sign of a good workout. That's still a big thing.

Starting point is 01:20:54 It's a sign that you might have done too much. And he didn't get into it. I alluded to it, but he didn't get into it. What happens a lot of times with these people is they go off for a week and by people, I mean all of us, right? So you go off for like a week and then you come back and you're like, God, I've been off for a week. You gotta make up for it.

Starting point is 01:21:11 You gotta make up for it. And then get after it. And then because you got after it so much, either one, you don't even lift the next day or the two days after like that. Or even if you do lift, you're going to have to like gingerly go through it because you're so sore from the previous workout. So you end up doing, you end up doing a half the volume that you could take it. And then the body's still sore.

Starting point is 01:21:29 So it's just trying to recover. Like, so yeah, you don't realize how much you shoot yourself in the foot by overreaching that much consistently. And, you know, again, we, I know people are tired of hearing the do as little as possible to listen, amount of change, but that's the reason why I say it so much is cause I get what a challenge this is. I'm getting that tattooed on my butt. I came up with that. Our next caller is Sean from Colorado. Sean, what's up man? What's up Sean? Not a whole lot. How are y'all doing? Good. How can we help you bro?

Starting point is 01:21:58 Okay, so I'm a stay-at-home dad and I've recently lost about 50- 58 pounds. Wow. Sweet. For took about a year. All I did was change my diet and walk. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now I'm at a point where I need to start lifting. And I don't know where to go. I've been out of the game so long that I'm just like in there. I go do your basic pig movements, just move weight, and then hope for the best. So as a, you're gonna be, you're gonna be so fun to help out, bro.

Starting point is 01:22:32 We got you, dude. Yeah. Yeah, what is your schedule? Newbie gains. Yeah, we got you. Map Santa Bollocks starting pre-phase. That's it. Done.

Starting point is 01:22:39 You're gonna love it. Do you have a barbell? Do you have like a barbell on a bench and all that stuff? Can I throw a little challenge in there for y'all? Give it to me as a stay-at-home dad. We actually travel My wife is a doctor of physical therapy But she deals mostly with like spinal and that kind of stuff And so we're on the road We're never in one location for more than three months

Starting point is 01:23:05 And so like a gym membership is really hard to keep in keep going even with Planet Fitness They're super easy to go to but they're also not always like right on spot So it's because we choose places that aren't necessarily Main hubs I guess So it's mostly home workouts Yeah, do you what equipment do you have at home? Yeah, what do you got? I've got resistance bands jump ropes Let's see some places I can put up a pull-up bar I need to get one that's for like the doorway, but even like here. We're in like over a hundred year old house

Starting point is 01:23:41 The doorways are huge So it's like not simple. So I mean, I'm like very limited. Are you, are you open to, because we can, we can work with this, but I would love, I would love if you invested in a adjustable dumbbell, like literally the dumbbells that you can adjust all the way up to like 80 pounds or suspension trainer or that's it. I mean, that would be even cheaper and easier, right? So spinach trainer is less than a hundred bucks. We can get that. I don't know what those dumbbells run for for a pair of those, but that

Starting point is 01:24:13 would be awesome. Cause we can get a lot of things. I think I've seen them online for like a hundred, hundred and fifty bucks. That stuff's not too bad. I could probably work with something like that. If you, if you can, okay. So if you have a bench and dumbbells, then we can do maps and a ball. Like if you, if you want to use a suspension trainer, which is even more

Starting point is 01:24:27 convenient and you could you could travel with that we have a program called map suspension and with you don't you could just use your suspension trainer and body weight and some some dumbbells in your set. Okay, so I mean honestly like with you guys where would you go like as, as a person who's trying to become like a hybrid athlete. So I want to be able to run marathons, but I also want to be able to push some weight. Let's worry about the marathon running after we build some muscle right now. Yeah. Let's build, let's build.

Starting point is 01:24:57 Cause here's what you did really, you did really well was you, you slowly reduced the, the body fat over a year. You didn't crash diet. You just cleaned it. It sounds like you cleaned everything up. You just made more activity. So you did a really good job of shredding the body fat. Now what I'd want to do with you

Starting point is 01:25:13 is build a roaring metabolism and build a nice base. So I'd want to reverse diet you. So I actually would want you to start lifting with either map suspension or maps and a block, whatever we decide, and focus on building muscle right now and building your metabolism. So the goal would be to, because I see your current calories are only at 2000 calories. Yeah, they're super low. I don't feel like I'm active enough to get it. You're doing a good job. You're good. You're on my point though, is that

Starting point is 01:25:41 what I don't want to do is introduce running to you right now at that low calories because then you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. So what we want to do is we want to reverse diet and so slowly increase calories, train either suspension or anabolic, whichever one we decide to give you, follow that. And the goal would really get yourself up to where you're eating more like 2800 to 3000 calories and maintaining your body fat percentage or looking better because you've built muscle before we even consider putting in any sort of running. Yeah. And then I'd have them do.

Starting point is 01:26:14 Okay. And the running I just do like whenever I feel like it. So it's not necessarily like a thing I train for. I just, I enjoy running. So when I feel like running, I go run. Right. So I'll build, I would build that in for you, but right now I wouldn't want you to do that. Right now it's not helping us towards our goal of like building

Starting point is 01:26:31 your metabolism, building a muscle. It'll counter it. Yeah. So it's, so it's, as of right now, it's worthless. We'll get to that. Right now it's slowly increase the calories. If we're going to go with maps suspension, we'll send you map suspension over to you and we'll follow that as we we reverse diet you out. And that'll be a really good place considering you haven't been lifting any weights. Yeah, you'll benefit. Map suspension would be a great place. It'd be the the easiest one to get going and it won't be interrupted by travel or places where you don't have access to anything. And then after that, if you want to

Starting point is 01:27:04 start to ramp it up, then maybe we invest in the dumbbells and we do maps and a baller. Okay. Yeah. No, that sounds way more in tight, like into like our lifestyle. Cool. And I love, I actually like the idea that, cause if you're talking about athletic abilities, so that map suspension is an even better foundation.

Starting point is 01:27:23 So that's going to be even better for you. I think you'd like that a lot. And it's, it really does build good muscle. It'll strengthen a lot of like deep brain. Okay. And then I believe in my original question, I did state that I'm a little nervous about putting on too much weight. So with reverse dieting, what things do I need to watch out for?

Starting point is 01:27:41 You getting in your head. So I'll just follow like what you guys say, like that doesn't bother me at all. But I don't know, like what to look out for. Let's listen. Listen, here's what a reverse diet is not eating everything. A reverse diet is a very structured bulk. It's a very structured, um, disciplined way of slowly increasing calories. So, you know, a guy like you, if you're eating 2000 calories a day,

Starting point is 01:28:02 which is what you wrote up here, I'd go up to like 2200 calories. I'd stay there for a little while, then maybe go up another 100 calories. And you're just, you're just slowly increasing it and then staying with the increase for, for a few weeks, just to see how you feel. What you want to see is strength increases. You want to see not really that much change on the weight, on the scale, but a body composition change, right? Like you start to get leaner, you start to build more muscle.

Starting point is 01:28:26 So your body weight really isn't changing much. Maybe it goes up a little bit, but not much at all. We'll do this too, Sean. I'll have Doug put you in the private forum that way as you're going through this process, you can just check in with us. Okay. So, Oh, that's,

Starting point is 01:28:41 that's fantastic. Yeah. Cause I do feel like I'm getting weaker as I'm going, which is strange. Cause I don't feel like I'm doing anything different except for those calories. Yeah. Well, that's what's happening. That's okay. That's, you, you, you did a really good job at this point and you, you've, you've

Starting point is 01:28:54 set the, the, you laid the foundation for us to really help you out and build muscles. So literally we're going to do map suspension. Doug's going to send that over to you. The only invest investment you'll have to do is buy in the suspension trainer, which by the way, I think Doug can send you a link for 50% off of that also. Doug, do we have that? Oh yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:10 So that'll save you also 50 bucks. So the thing's going to be like 50 bucks. Oh, so that's like, so that's amazing. So you'll get that, you'll follow the suspension. We're going to put you in the forum and then all I want you to do is once a month beginning the month. So four weeks from now, just check in with us. Let us know where you're at, how you're feeling, what you're, and you know, whatever things you're concerned about or not concerned about, just check in with us.

Starting point is 01:29:32 And then we can make adjustments on a monthly basis. Oh, that'd be fantastic. You guys, like just listening to your guys' podcasts has changed how I eat, how I look at things. I don't do things quickly, obviously. And I just, I take it like one step at a time until I get it perfect. Right on dude. That's the way to do it man. Yeah, you're doing good.

Starting point is 01:29:53 Thanks bro. Appreciate it. We got you. Yeah, no, thank you guys so much. You're welcome Sean. All right Sean, see you in the forum. Take it easy. He is relaxed for being a stay at home.

Starting point is 01:30:04 Yeah, he's got little kids in the background. He's probably had to a stay at home. Yeah. He's got little kids in the background. He's probably had to figure that out. Like, I was going to be chill. Well, that's just me and my kids. I'm like, I came to sit down. You know what I mean? You want to take a nap, I'm standing.

Starting point is 01:30:14 Yeah, he's like, you're John. Yeah. I mean, this is the only different thing I would have done is instead of lost, losing the way with just walking, what it was. Oh, it was ways. Of course. Of course. But I mean, we're fine. Like he didn't go ridiculous with the cutting, he didn't go crazy cardio.

Starting point is 01:30:30 And people need to know, like he's talking about, you know, building strength, like suspension trainers, of all of the non, you know, free weight tools you can use besides like gym machines and stuff. Like they are phenomenal muscle builders. You can go from beginner to super advanced with one pair of suspensions. You know, too, this is actually really, this will be a fun test for him. If he, if he's the type of person that will follow through is following suspension,

Starting point is 01:30:56 he's going to build a bunch of muscle. And then if you were going to make the investment into dumb bell, something like that, like that'll be the, not a beautiful progression from that. Totally. You're welcome. Our next caller is Casey from Italy. Casey. How you doing? Thank you in advance so much to say but to the all of you Sal Adam, Adam, Justin, Doug, that your show is absolutely amazing. I've been a listener for years, but thank you for being such good men

Starting point is 01:31:29 and standing up for what you believe in and bringing goodness into this world. You guys are all angels in my eyes. So just want to say thank you from the bottom. Gracias, mi re. Gracias, mi re. Thank you so much. Give this woman something for free, come on.

Starting point is 01:31:40 We'll take care of you. We'll figure it out, yeah. You're not leaving her that's awesome. By the way, you're in Sicily right now, right? What part of Sicily you're in? You're home then. So I'm, uh, the closer city is in Catania. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you're a little bit a little, a little higher. So my family's by, by Palermo, but I've been to Catania. So cool. Okay. Yeah. I think my family, my great grandparents, my best noni,

Starting point is 01:32:00 I think they're from Palermo. I still have to do some research and figure all that out. But, we're here now loving it. So how can we help you? So my question is so I retired bodybuilder. I did the bikini bodybuilding three shows my last show is in 22 gosh, it's 24 in 22 and I work Alongside the military I'm services, and they have this really cool thing called the 500 pound thousand pound club. And if you haven't heard of it, it's total one rep max of bench squat and deadlifts. So I'm going for the 500 pound club in May. I turned 40. I'm doing it on my 40th birthday. My question is what program should I follow

Starting point is 01:32:41 next to achieve my goal right now? I'm in on a ball like advanced phase three. I'm about to end it. So this is perfect timing. Mass power lift. Mass power lift for sure. Easy. That's easy. Mass power lift is the way to go.

Starting point is 01:32:52 Okay. Super short. Okay. That was too easy. Oh, super easy. Yeah. And then it got... Yeah, it was an easy question.

Starting point is 01:32:58 Okay. And then the dumb power lift. I'm excited. Do it in a calorie surplus if you can. So that would be my suggestion. Yeah. That'll be too easy. I'm eating pasta five days a week now.

Starting point is 01:33:10 I still have protein. Yeah. And you, you look really lean too. So a surplus is going to be great with power lift. Awesome. Awesome. And then for a dead bed, but any best tips for perfecting deadlift form because I'm, I think I'm slacking in my dead lift

Starting point is 01:33:27 Okay, what's what how do you pull you sumo conventional? Are you tall short? She's five. I'm tall. I'm 58. So I go all the way down I guess that's and I hold the bar not reverse like that and I push up. So you pull conventional Conventional yes push up. So you pull conventional conventional. Yes. Okay. So, yeah. It's almost like a sumo squat. Yeah. Not sumo. Yeah. So you're pulling. Yeah. Typically if you're for a girl over five, five, then you'll pull conventional. So pulling conventional,

Starting point is 01:33:56 you want to drive through the floor with your feet and you want to really, you really want to grip the bar tight, activate your lats before you pull up. So you want to activate your lats, take any slack off the bar. So you're kind of pulling up a little bit on the bar, squeeze the bar tight, extend your arms fully, no bending the elbows whatsoever. And then drive through the floor with your feet, like you're pushing the floor away from you. And that typically gets people in a better position. I got one step better for you there, Casey, is we're going to put you in the forum, and then if you video you deadlifting,

Starting point is 01:34:28 then the guys will really be able to give you some. And you know, Maths Power Lift, because it's a powerlifting program, there it's really, really good instruction on how to do the big lifts. So you'll watch the videos and you'll get some good instruction on that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:42 That's got been a whole lot of things coaching stuff. Awesome, thank you. Looking forward to it. Yeah, I can't wait to hear. Thank you so much for the forum. I'm excited to be in there and yeah, we're going to talk to the next time you go to the gym and you do deadlifts, just give us a video. And that's actually one of the ways that people use the forum the most is to actually critique forums. And so obviously, like, it's tough to give you advice on deadlifting without seeing where you may or may not be

Starting point is 01:35:04 having a mistake. So there might be some little things that we can cue you that will make all the difference to get much stronger than that. That lift is like that where like somebody's lifting and they just have slack in their arms simply taking the slack out of their arms of the bar and also making lift 30. Well, a very set of eyes are very helpful. Yes. So this is the list.

Starting point is 01:35:23 Yes. Awesome. Thank you guys. Okay. So Baps Powerlift in the forum and I'll work on the deadlift. Real quick. Uh, Adam, you talked about there's nowhere else you can go. I think it was Truckee to the mountains, the beach here in Katania. We have Mount Aetna 40 minutes up. I was at the snow a couple of weeks ago. It came down and you're at the beach. So you can't compare. Sicily's down and you're at the beach. So

Starting point is 01:35:48 You can't compare Sicily's it's an island in the Mediterranean Is there actually like a hill you can ride down on the snow or is it just you're saying there's snow on the ground? No, you can ski up there. I haven't skied up there. You can go up there The only problem is in Sicily when you're trying to get any service anywhere at a certain time of day, everybody's asleep or not working or whatever. You look at the hell's going on here. Yeah, you know, that is absolutely 100% true. And they eat dinner very late and I cannot adapt to eating dinner at 10 o'clock at night.

Starting point is 01:36:19 Hey, listen, are you eating arancini there for your for your surplus? Because that's one of the best bulking foods. Of course, arancini. Yes. Yes. All the time. And I'm I don't she knew there for your surplus because that's one of the best bulking foods Just eating everything under the sun You know what the quality of food it's just so much different and better here and You can't compare. Yeah, I know it makes me sad. Just make sure you hit that protein and take first. You're all good. Yeah. Thank you so much Yeah for calling it. Thank you guys so much. Have a wonderful day Why are we all loud why are we all loud at time people? Yeah, I love a she's gonna crush if she's got a bodybuilding background bikini, she looked lean. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:37:07 And she's going to follow power lift. Oh my God. She's going to, she's going to hit that, that number, those numbers, no problem. Yeah. I agree. It'll be a good time. It'll be fun. Look, if you like the show, head over to mind pump free.com and check out some of our free fitness guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us all on Instagram. Justin is at mind pump. Justin, I met mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically

Starting point is 01:37:32 improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert, exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other

Starting point is 01:38:15 valuable free resources at MinePumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5 star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MinePump to your friends and family. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5 star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2279: The Pros & Cons of Eating vs. Fasting Before a Work Out, What Soreness Really Means, Building a Great Body With Only a Suspension Trainer & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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