Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2289: How to Properly Train to Failure, Tips for Keeping Weight Off Permanently, Ways to Simultaneously Optimize Performance & Aesthetics & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The path of progress is NOT linear. DO NOT get stuck in the ‘shame’ spiral. (2:12) NASM is the leader for personal trainers. (13:38) Such a flirt. (20:05) Little boy problems. (23:25) Social media is a cesspool. (25:05) Do women need an alpha male? (27:32) The most brilliant or dumb guy ever? (40:16) Mind Pump Recommends, Dune: Part Two. (43:11) Rule of thumb. (47:36) Butcher Box now has potatoes! (50:16) Shout out to Max Lugavere’s documentary, Little Empty Boxes. (56:56) #ListenerLive question #1 - Since powerlifting is very prescriptive on percentages, should I stay within the calculated percentages for the entire program or is it advisable to push to higher percentages? (57:56) #ListenerLive question #2 - When going to failure on the weeks we do failure training, does that mean that I quite literally cannot do another rep? (1:06:28) #ListenerLive question #3 - How do you sustainably get into a calorie-counting mindset from eating intuitively? (1:11:00) #ListenerLive question #4 - Being a career firefighter with a 24/48 schedule, how do I optimize muscle growth after this cut phase without the safety of a spotter? (1:23:25) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit NASM for access to their premier all-in-one membership program, NASM One for Mind Pump listeners. Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! ** New users will receive their choice of 2 lbs. of Ground Beef, 3 lbs. of Chicken Thighs, or 1 lb. of premium Steak Tips for a Year! + Use the code MINDPUMP and get $20 off your first box! ** March Promotion: MAPS Anabolic | MAPS Anabolic Advanced 50% off! ** Code MARCH50 at checkout ** Jen Cohen viral post Did Super Bowl streaker win $374,000 for disrupting Super Bowl LV? Plus details on viral incident at Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas Dune: Part Two (2024) - IMDb Little Empty Boxes For a limited time only, Mind Pump listeners get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump MAPS Powerlift | Mind Pump #2015: How To Apply Advanced Training Techniques To Build More Muscle Mind Pump #1487: The Best Way For First Responders To Stay In Shape Mind Pump #2287: Bodybuilding 101- How To Bulk And Cut Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Jen Cohen (@therealjencohen) Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. All right, in today's episode, we answered live callers

questions. When people called in, we got to help them out. But that was after the intro portion, which today was 55 minutes long. That's what we talk about current events, studies, fitness, family life, and much more. You can check our show notes for timestamps. If you want to skip around your favorite parts.

Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, well, we can help you out on air email us at live at mind pump media.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is NASM. They are the gold standard in certification for trainers and coaches, and they have something called NASM one 35 bucks a month. You get their national certifications 50% off. Plus you get unlimited access to their short CEU courses or tons of education

and you get access to an app that allows you to manage your clients, their diet, their workouts, their, uh, their, their macros, they get to do payment processing. It's incredible. There's nothing like this in the industry. They're definitely leading the way. Anyway, go check them out. Go to NASM.org forward slash mine pump. This episode is also brought to you by butcher box. They deliver grass fed meat to your door heritage pork to your door. They deliver wild caught fish to your door and more.

So it's better priced and amazingly sourced. Go check them out. And right now, if you go through our link, you'll get your choice of two pounds of ground beef, three pounds of chicken thighs, or one pound of premium steak tips included in your box for free for a year. By the way, you'll also get $20 off, but you have to use our code.

So go to butcherbox.com forward slash mine pump, use the code mine pump for all those things that I just mentioned. We also have a sale this month. Our two most popular muscle building programs are on sale. Maps, anabolic 50% off. Then you get maps and a ball advanced also 50% off. If you're interested, go to maps fitness products.com and then use the code March 50 for the discount.

All right, here comes the show. The path of progress is not linear. It kind of looks like a jagged, if you're lucky, step ladder. What does that mean? Two steps forward, one step back, sometimes two step backs. Okay. So why do we end up stopping? Most of us understand this. Here's why.

You mess up, then you feel bad about messing up. Then you feel bad about feeling bad. The shame spiral. You get into that spiral and all those things you do to comfort yourself like eat hyper-palatable foods, maybe lay down on the couch, watch TV distract yourself, become that much more alluring. So look here's the deal

You're gonna mess up Everybody does don't get stuck in the shame spiral I think said it best was Paul Abdul Oh my god, I can't remember that I used to love her I actually haven't thought about it in first song. I did too. Massive. Yeah, yeah.

Me too. It's a track. Anyways. You guys remember coaching clients and how like, you know, this would pop up, right? They would, they'd be like, oh, I'm doing so good. I'm so consistent.

And they come back and like, oh, this weekend I totally screwed up. But then they'd feel bad about the screw up. Then they'd feel bad about feeling bad. And then it was like really hard to get them Back in the groove and then you know personally I experienced that myself not with fitness and nutrition But with other aspects were like I'm you know, I'm trying to do some growth Mm-hmm, and then I screw up. I guess stuck in this swirl of like, oh

Everybody hit a wall. I mean like you said, it's not linear There's so many systems and things to account for with your body and Oh, yeah. Inevitably you hit a wall. I mean, like you said, it's not linear. Uh, there's a lot of things. There's so many systems and things to account for, uh, with your body and, and, you know, you, you can't just apply the same formula over and over again, unfortunately, but it also makes it interesting and dynamic. So this is, uh, this is part of the equation. Um, when I talk to clients about how often we should do, uh, you know, body fat tests and then recalibrate, right? And we just had a live caller. I think it was when I had to clients about how often we should do, you know, body fat tests and then recalibrate, right? And we just had a live caller thing it was

when I had brought this up and said that, you know, don't adjust after one bad body fat test. And that was just kind of a rule that I had when I was competing and I was tracking this so consistently. It's like, cause I knew that I was calculating everything and I knew that like, okay, this is the plan, this is, and it should math should work out. But just sometimes it, you know, because of things like sodium, water, maybe in this, in your case, what you're talking about, just a couple of bad days of dieting and are missing your workout. And you could get this

bad reading, you know, or even a little bit of air combination of all of them. And then you get this bad body fat test or result, you know, after two weeks of work and you think that it's got to go in this direction always, and then it doesn't. And then you either one, you go, Oh, fuck it all, forget it and get spiral, or you go course correct and like adjust and normally over correct. And so I always made this rule that I had to have two, you know, negative tests in a row to get me to switch directions because of the natural ebb and flow of this. It's interesting too, how much easier to give other people grace when they screw up,

but then when yourself, it's like, you know, you'll come down so hard on yourself. And what, what the part of this, I think that's most so important is when you look at What the part of this, I think that's most so important is when you look at a person's relationship to food and let's say exercise, one of the guaranteed ways to ensure that you'll fail is if you eat and exercise cause you hate yourself. If you hate yourself, then, then diet becomes restrictive. And at some point you end up rebelling, going the other direction that you want to comfort yourself with food and exercise is a punishment. Um, and, and eventually you'll want to stop punishing yourself.

And so you'll say, I want to enjoy myself. I don't want to work out anymore. It's this, this shame spiral, um, and show, and I know it's easier said than done, but I think what used to help me at least with clients is I would tell them ahead of time, here's what's going to happen. You're going to be consistent. You're going to stumble. Everybody does. Nobody is perfect.

When you do stumble, it's important you give yourself grace and that we just continue moving forward. But if you dwell on the fact that you screwed up or messed up or that you weren't able to progress as fast as you'd wanted, if you dwell on that, then all those behaviors, those comforting behaviors,

those distracting behaviors, or those behaviors or those self punishment behaviors, they become so strong and they start to want to take over. Um, and it just, it doesn't work. It doesn't work longterm. In the longterm, it turns into running away from or just, I mean, gosh, if you're one of those people that just endlessly punishes yourself, well then you'll become orthorexic with your diet or over-train with your workouts, which is what we run to with people in our space. But a lot of people don't talk about this.

A lot of trainers and coaches don't talk about this with their clients and they need to. This is why clients do so well and then just disappear. If you're a trainer and you experience this, we're like, yeah, I do really well with clients. And then after six months, I tend to lose them and they're gone. And then you tell yourself, well, it's cause they're not disciplined. That's probably not what the issue is.

It's interesting because it's also like, it's the right dose because you do have to recognize as a signal like there's need for change. And so you have to respond by, you know, applying something that's, you know, beneficial for you, but at the same time, not punish and beat yourself down to the point where it's completely detrimental if you go all in on that perspective. I think the biggest problem and it speaks to the point you're making is our expectations

are unbelievably skewed. And this to me is what made the difference between good coaches and great coaches were the coaches that were able to lay out the correct expectations of a journey. We're marketed to that, you know, look this way in 30 days or take this pill and look at these great end like the biggest loser results. And we have so much information that's circulating around how quick you can do something. And the reality is like the clients that you change their lives fundamentally, like it was never overnight. It was never 30 days or even 60 days.

It's like a year. Yeah. It's just lifelong pursuit that takes a really long time to see these huge changes that you want to see. And I think too many coaches and trainers fall into the marketing trap of selling these clients on the idea that I can get you there really quick because it's what gains them the client initially. And then they fail to have that conversation until it comes up where they

are like the client's now frustrated. It's four to six weeks later. And I'm like, Hey, I haven't lost any weight or I even gained weight or I've only lost two pounds and they're frustrated because their expectations were not set. And the best coaches and trainers have this ability to sit down with a client and say, Hey, listen, I, I know you want this. I know people have told you this.

I know that there's examples that you might even know of this, but the reality is this is more what it looks like. This is what we should expect and to not get discouraged when it, when that doesn't happen because that's just part of this. I be as a trainer, I became so much more successful with my clients when I was able to give them and show them grace consistently. Like they'd come to me and they'd say, Oh man, I went on vacation. So, and I, I know you gave me a workout.

I didn't do a single workout. Eight terribly. And I would respond to be like, did you enjoy yourself? Oh yeah, I had a lot of fun. That's awesome. You know, that's great. I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. By the way, most people that work out were on their vacation.

I gave them to you, but you didn't have to do it. And to be honest with you, you had a good time. So that's great. Let's move forward. And when they would hear that from me, even when it would happen repeatedly. That, and by the way, this doesn't mean lying to your client. You're also honest with them. Cause then if they come back and like,

why am I not getting great results? Well, I mean, we're taking a few steps back, which is totally expected. It's tough, it's challenging, but you're moving in the right direction. When I learned how to do that with my clients and show them that, they would, they would,

they were able to show it to themselves a little bit. And they would come to me, cause here's what happens when to themselves a little bit. And they would come to me, cause here's what happens when you don't do that. And if you don't do this for yourself, this will happen. Either A, you'll, you'll turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction so hard that you end up spinning out, right? You over correct. Or B, this is what I do.

If I get stuck on a shame spiral, I run. I don't want to deal with that anymore. I'm not doing that anymore. That's not for me. I'm going to go over here or I'll pretend like it. You rebel against it. Rebell against it. So it's a really hard one to get around, but showing yourself grace.

One of the best strategies I found is to put it outside of myself. Like, okay, how would I treat someone else that I cared about that was going through this? Would I really be speaking to them in this way? Because otherwise I'll get stuck in this like all day, you know, beat yourself down, uh, type of a scenario that just not only does it not work. And I think you said, what you said, Justin was brilliant. You have to stop at some point and ask yourself, is this helping me?

I know I messed up, but now it's been three hours of me beating myself up. Is this helping me or is it slowing me down? Well, it's a really hard thing to zoom out. It's a, it's a hard thing to, to out. It's a hard thing to view yourself in your journey with longevity. A lot of people, like it's transactional, it's everyday. It's like my repeated patterns that I just see today, I just see this going on right now and I'm failing.

And so it's just like you get stuck in this pit. And if you can just zoom out and see that there's pits all along the journey, but you're still moving, making progress. And the broader perspective is the amount of times that you're doing well, supersedes all these little pitfalls. So speaking for coaches and trainers, are we getting worse or better at this? Generally? Yeah. Like this is obviously a conversation we've known about for 20 years.

That's a good question. And we've been working on ourselves as coaches and trainers to be better at that. Your peers today, when you look at the landscape and the overall trainer-client relationship, are we getting better or worse at this? That's a hard thing, a hard question to answer. Cause there may be a self-selection bias of the trainers and coaches that we know through listening to our show. Cause the ones that we talk to seem to be pretty damn good at this. And they talk about this a lot, you know,

but I don't know generally what that looks like across the training. The problem is a lot of trainers or trainers because they have a lot of issues with exercise and diet themselves. And so what happens is you tend to project your, the things you hate about yourself on the other person. So let's say you yourself are like, you hate the way you look. So you became a trainer and you're really obsessed with exercise and then you're training someone else and they screw up a couple of times.

You may project how you feel about yourself on them. How dare you get on there? You may, you almost always do. Cause that's what you know. Yeah. Yeah. You stick with that. Well, so, and this is why I proposed a question because in the last decade, we've

created a whole new market of trainers that didn't even exist before. And then this market of trainers predominantly didn't even exist before. And this market of trainers predominantly are the trainers who had social media presence. They got incredibly, and maybe they weren't even trainers before. They were just people who got in incredible shape, whether somebody impacted their life or they got ripped or they got a lot of attention because of the way they look. And then they thought, man, so many people are asking me to help them. I should help them or I can make a business out of this. Isn't that interesting?

Like back in the day, it was the, the most jack guy in the gym. Yeah. Now, all of a sudden they're just propelled out there, uh, through social media. They're like looked at as, as the guy has all the answers. I mean, I would love to talk to a company like NSM and hear the statistics on how many of these coaches and trainers are like in purse or like in facilities or are like online or like what do they tell you? I was just got off the phone with them. Do you know, you guys know what they have.

So one of the, so we started working with any SM as partners because we met a couple of their representatives at the Arnold, I'm sorry, at the Olympia. And, um, uh, we've, we've, of course, we've been familiar with any SM for a long time. It was the first certification all of us got back in the day and they, they're like the gold standard, right? Of national certifications. When we sat down and talked with these guys, we had no idea of all the things

that any SM now offers, including what I'm about to tell you, I'm going to pull it up just so I don't mess up, but they are not just like ahead of the curve. They are there, they're leaders in this. Let me, let me go over to what they have right now. So they have something called, so trip off this. It's called any SM one. Okay. You pay a membership fee, 35 bucks a month.

Okay. What this thing, and that's, it's a year. So you pay 35 a month for a year. Here's what you get 50% off all the major certifications. So that already pays for itself. Oh, there's a certain you have 50% off if you're a year. So you pay 35 a month for a year. Here's what you get. 50% off all the major certifications. So that already pays for itself. There's cert. You have 50% off if you're a member. Then they have hundreds of CEU courses available through this, all available unlimited for free. So you could go on there. What an interesting model because, okay,

so that's $420 a year. If you get 50% off of their certifications, most of certifications are around $1,000. Oh, it pays for itself. Yeah. That's $420 a year. If you get 50% off of their certifications, most of certifications are around $1,000. Oh, it pays for itself. Yeah, that's a wow. So we have virtual coat courses that you could basically see us. Yeah. See us get credit for hundreds, hundreds and you can, and they're unlimited included with this.

That's smart. Okay. Well, it gets crazier. So this is where I'd like, I'm on the phone with them and I'm like, oh, you guys, first of all, this is crazy. Second of all, nobody knows about this. And they're like, that's what we're working with you guys. So I'm like, okay. So they also have an app that comes with it.

The app is designed to have you monitor and manage your business, your, your clients, your, their workouts, like trainer eyes, their diets, their macros. It allows you to take payments. Perfect. It allows you to take payments. Yeah, like trainer eyes. You also can do video conference calls with them. That's all included in this?

All included. Wow. I'm surprised more certifications haven't done that. Yeah, that's a perfect fit. $35. Do you know what I said? How brilliant. So listen to how smart.

Nobody will touch that. Business wise, how smart this is. OK, it's a no brainer because you basically save the money on what you would buy certification. And then they keep you in there because you're managing all your clients there. And, and there, so you're competing with trainer eyes. And then on top of that, you're this certification course. They discounted enough to basically pay for itself.

If you get, if you were thinking about getting one certification, you may as well do this because it's going to pay for itself. You also have now access to the CEUs, which keep them renewed, which would cost you money to go do those anyways. Like what a smart wrap it all in. By the way, it's cheaper than all the other apps. That's just the app. Remember, forget the certificate, all the education they offer.

Yeah, yeah. 35 bucks a month is cheaper than the other apps that you would use to do all that stuff. That's exciting. Yeah, that's cool. Right. Plus, we're here for this. So at the end of the call, they're like, oh, one more thing. No limit to the amount of clients you can manage in this app.

Yeah. You know, the other cert, the other ones are like, yeah. So you could build your online business, take payments, manage your clients, manage their schedule, manage their workouts, their diet. You could, uh, they have, uh, uh, a library of exercises you could send them. You could do, they already have them. You know, it's, it's like, like crazy. It's so exciting and unfortunate at the same time.

Like, uh, you know, this is a little sharing a little bit more than the audience probably needs to know. But we have several friends, uh, outside of an ASM that are building apps that are basically going to do all the stuff. And when you have someone like that, like an ASM, this is why the app world is so scary to me. Yeah. I know. Because what our friends, we have friends that are building really cool trainer type apps that of course been in conversation with us for some of them over over a couple years, some of them recently and it's very interesting to us. But then I see something like this, like an ASM.

You can't compete with that. No, no. Because they're going there for the education anyways. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so unfortunate for our friends to see something like this, but really exciting for an ESM. Great for the user, right? Yeah. And for the consumer,

right, for the audience who's listening, who's a potential client. So this is why they're working with us, because any ESM has a problem of the space not knowing all the stuff that they have to offer. They kind of were relying on their, their laurels in the past and the fact that they were such a great national cert. And I think that's all trainers and coaches, new trainers and coaches think that they are, oh, it's a national cert, they're really good, everybody says they're good.

But no, no, no, if you look at the CEUs, there's all kinds of stuff you can learn in there. And then this app and this new service, 35 bucks a month. I mean, that's good luck. When I got, I told them on the phone, I'm like, you guys just, you're going to crush everybody. Yeah. No, it's going to be able to touch you guys.

Here comes the flood. Crazy. That's what I mean. If you're going to get a certification, you save the money right in the first year. It's a no brainer. Yeah. It's a hundred percent no brainer.

Oh, that's so. Did that just go live? Is that how new is that? Relatively new. Yeah. Relatively new. Oh, there's. It's live right now.

He just pulled it out. Don't pull it up right now. It's called an ASM one membership membership. One membership. Yep. Wow. Yeah. And they're going to capture.

I mean, like I said, I can't think of anybody that comes close. I can't wait to hear. I bet we already have some trainers that are already in there then that I want to hear some feedback. What I'm most curious about because trainer eyes is probably, would you say Justin, the most popular workout business coach out? I'd like to hear somebody's, uh, feedback that has utilized both and here are the comparison because I tell you what, if they can, if they're,

if their UI is as good or better than theirs with all the other offerings that they're having right now, they're, I mean, talk about just taking over. Yeah. And I think trainer eyes is much more expensive. It is. It's more, it's more expensive. Yeah. And I think trainerize is based off of how many clients you have.

So he goes up as you manage more. It's been a long time since I've been through that app. So I'm not sure what it is now. There's, yeah. And there's a few other. Oh, you also get unlimited retests. So if you need to take a retest on the search, you can keep learning. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. There's so much that I'm not even covering because there's

so much there, but I'm going to keep learning about what they have to offer. Yeah, look at, look at, look at. So it does go up as you go. That's train rise. Yeah. Yeah. Grow and then pro five and then studio plus. I'm not sure what studio plus offers, but that's wild. Anyway, I want to ask you guys, uh, so my three year old, I've seen this happen now many times. He's only three, but he's genuinely like he flirts with, with, like he really liked. I think mass does too.

Yeah. So first we started seeing this trip to see it happen at such a young age, but it does. Yeah. Oh, so my daughter's friend, they're 14, whenever she comes over, he acts so weird. And then he wants to make her laugh. And then he wants to tease her and he wants to do all this stuff. And, you know, he goes up to hug her or whatever. And we saw that with her, right? Well, Doug came over for dinner last night, brought Bree, his daughter over, and they're my son right away. Just enamored by her. Oh, right away, dude.

Well, he's teasing her, right? He's like, she's trying to mess with her, and then he like touches her, and then he goes over and he grabs her arm so that she'll, he like makes her like hug him, you know? And then he'll run, and if she laughs, then he's gonna do whatever he did like 15 times in a row. And I'm like, oh my God, this is hilarious.

Why is he so flirty? He's only three, dude. It's so funny. I'm so cute. I maxed this very similar like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I love it though.

You know what I'm saying? He's just got this. One of the things I was afraid of was, you know, I had a, I had a boy in the middle of this COVID thing, right? And it's a very important developmental ages, right? Or stage of their life. And so I was one of the things that I was most fearful of, I guess you could say, when this was going on was,

I told Katrina, I'm like, oh man, I hope that our son doesn't develop this kind of social awkwardness because at the ages that he's supposed to be interacting with people that he's not around them. And I mean, obviously that's not the case at all. Like I thought that, and Katrina always like said, come on, Hunter. You guys have such a big family too. Well, we have a big family and Katrina's like that, literally that's not the case at all. Like I thought that and Katrina always like said, come on, Hunter. You guys have such a big family too.

Well, we have a big family and Katrina's like that, literally like one of the things that her and I share in common is that trait, right? Is this like social butterfly, friends with lots of people, like not afraid to communicate, say how we feel and stuff. Like so she's like, he's got both of us in him. Like, do you really think that's possible? I don't know.

Like this is a perfect example of, is this one of these like things that is more, you know, genetic or is it more a learned behavior with kids? Like, and he's the opposite of that. Like he's like, knows everybody and even when we lose school, but it's definitely girls, like he's like friends with so funny. He's like, he gets along with other boys, like, because he's easy to get along with. Like he doesn't fight for the toys.

He's like shares, whatever. So, but I think that's also why the girls love him so much. And so when he leaves, I just picked him up from school the other day. It's so funny because it's like, you know, they, they have this normally when I pick it up, that this is when they kind of have their outside recess time and they, they mix two or three classes because his class is very small, right? Only 17 kids, but then during the recess time, there's, they have like three different classes. So, you know, they have like three different classes.

So, you know, like 40 kids are, are so or out there. And when I, when I leave, it's like, all the girls come running up to the fence. Bye Max. Like out of their way to say goodbye. Oh yeah. And he's, oh, bye. Walking over, touching their hands with the fans.

Oh yeah, dude. It's like, and I just stand there and let him do it. I stand as a fan base. Yeah, I don't even like interrupt. I just let him do his thing. Each girl comes over and, bye Max, bye Max. You know, it's so funny. I'm like, oh my God.

Such a weird thing too to be like, is it dead like all proud? Well, you're living my life first? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a boy. He's gonna be just fine. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna be all right. He's gonna be all right.

The moms of the kids are like, who's this Max? And then they say, oh, that's his dad. Who's this Max guy? Oh, I see, that's his dad. No, dude, it's really cool to see. I tell you what, I got something for you guys, speaking of Max and our boys and stuff that I'm sure you guys have experienced.

So I think it was Saturday morning. This isn't often that this happens when like both Katrina and I are just really tired in the morning and Max is like awake, right? And so he's now at this age where we can be like, turn on some cartoons or, you know, go get yourself some banana, like send him away to do this stuff like that.

And I'm like, Katrina's got her eye mask on. I'm like in and out, have a sleep. And he's like up talking and doing this stuff like that. And I'm hungry. Katrina's like, go downstairs, you get yourself a banana, right? So he goes downstairs, feeds himself a banana, comes back up and he's moving around.

I could tell and she's like, Max, I can tell you to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom. Okay. So he gets up and he goes run to the bathroom and he comes back and he goes, mommy my wiener wouldn't go down. And so you can't help but you're laying there half asleep. Go like, fuck, I don't even want to get up and see what this bathroom looks like.

Just picturing him trying to pee in the toilet. You know what I'm saying? Because he's really good. Like he's like he stands in. He's actually most times really good. But I know if that thing's, you know, fully wrecked, it's going. Boner piss. Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's going. Even dad has a hard time controlling that. I know there's no way he's controlling that. It's all over the place. So I just lay in there in bed. I know Katrina, I both he's controlling that. It's all over the place. I just lay in there in bed. I know Katrina and I both, they say,

God man, who's going to get up and go check on? Did he miss? Yeah, of course he did. It was everybody. All over the place. I mean, he got some of it in the toilet, but most of it was everyone else. Poor kid.

That's so funny. Oh, boys. You're just dying laughing. Can't be mad at him, you know what I'm saying? No, that's a real thing. That's a good boy. You know a boy's, what a good boy's. You know, the other thing that was interesting for me for this weekend was, you know, we're getting used

to this new schedule for us, right? And one of the things I've loved about it is it's freed up some time to get into other pieces of the business. And I think that's a thing that I've definitely gone back and forth with Doug and talked about how much we appreciate the recording schedule the way it is now. And, uh, it's, and it, something I did this weekend that I just didn't realize

I really haven't done much of in a long time, which is like engage on social media and YouTube and look at the, and recomb like, bro, so fucking unhealthy. Yeah. Like it ruined my day. It really was like, I, I, I was doing it because I'm like, oh, I should do this. Yeah. I need to do this. Like, I, you know, it's been a while since I've like checked up on how things are trending

on, on each platform and comment on comments and I was just like, I caught myself at one, not only getting sucked into it for a couple hours, but then afterwards just feeling, it was just in a bad mood all day. And I'm like, God, yeah, so unhealthy, man. Well, real life has checks and balances. Like if you're in a room and you, and you hear someone make a comment, you're like, I don't like that. You got to do, you got to walk up to them.

You got to like, okay, are they going to, are they going to react to me saying this? There's other people around. And I think I'll keep it to myself. Social media, you just say what the hell do you want and you're fine. And so it ends up happening. And then, and then the worse your comment is, the more attention it gets. So it feeds into that anti-social behavior. And you even know if it's a real person.

Yeah. It very well be a bot. You know how many times it happens to me where they'll make a comment on something. I'll go look and be like, no followers. Yeah. Just got created. This is fake. Yeah.

This is a really. Half the time we have the time with someone trolling. The other half of the time it's somebody who's just being sarcastic or funny. And they're, they're really not in a bad mood. Yeah. Now it's like, I can't see. And I get like, uh, cause of course a lot of everybody who's, who is in the game of like helping other people build social media.

They talk about the importance of engaging and posting and all the things like that, but man, I can't tell you what, uh, how unhealthy it could be. other people build social media, they talk about the importance of engaging and posting and all the things like that. But man, I can't tell you what a, how unhealthy it could be. The original growth of the business, not so bad. When we were unknown and we were putting content out and, you know, people were engaging in and the conversations were all healthy and helping people was like, it actually didn't feel that way. In fact, I actually felt almost fed from it.

Like, wow, this was like, man, I helped like 10 people today out. So the compliments they give you for the content you were producing. What were people saying that was making so upset? Oh man, that Jyn Cohen post. Oh, I knew it. I knew it. Man, that thing went.

You know why? This is what I said. I just read a few. This is what I said to you. Because the clip itself, outside of the conversation, I knew the way she said it would rub a lot of people the wrong way. Well, I mean, it's...

Now, what she said objectively, the data supports it, but the way she said it, and without context, I knew that wasn't happening. I knew you're gonna piss off a lot of people. Yeah, I mean, I didn't even know, I mean, so the audience, so it's not like any of us actually have anything to do with those. Like we have a team of people that and their job is to make clips go viral, right? Or get a lot of traction. So that's

a great discussion. And that's what the caption said. What do you, what's your opinion? Yeah, yeah. And so, but man, to see just how angry people, now, to your point, and I agree, like, you know, I, I went back and obviously listened to it several times. It's like, she opens up with strong statements, like women need or have to have, like, okay, doesn't even matter what follows after that. Yeah. You're, I don't, and I don't even care that a woman, another woman is saying it, you're fucked, but you just can't say that. You just can't say need or have to have, like something

so absolute, because there are always exceptions to the rule. But what hurt who, we all know Jen really well, right? And the irony of, I mean, talk about like one of the strongest women we know. Like think of all the women that we know personally and think of like Jen is one of the strongest, most athletic, one of the smartest, highest business acumen. But also very down to earth authentic. Yeah, yeah. Like, so she's a killer, right? And so just to see all these other women crucifying her because of that statement, I just was like, I don't know, I just felt compelled to come to her defense because I don't really care

sometimes when we get that for guests that I'm whatever. Well, there's, when I have a guest that I really like and I know where she's coming from, I want to defend her. I want to defend her, you know? And so I caught myself in that of wanting to come to her rescue on listen, like first of all, it was a hour and a half, two hour long podcast where there was, we talked about the nuances, right? The conversation went on for another two or three minutes.

Uh, and yeah, she made a very bold, which by the way, that's on brand for her. Say something bold like that. Um, and I don't disagree with it. I mean, I, I agree with the way it was said, or I don't agree with the way it was said in that clip, but her, her, her, the general point of, cause if you would have just switched need or have to have to want, how could you argue that? Name me, and that was some of the women that were going back and forth with me. I asked like, wait a second, like, do you not want a man that's stronger than you? Do you

not want a man that can provide for you? Like, do you know any women that say like, I don't want that or I don't need, like, maybe they say they don't need that. Maybe some, but generally speaking, again, if we just step back, like take your opinion out of it. The data shows that, uh, women tend to seek men that either earn as much or more, that tend to have the same education or higher that tend to be the same height or or taller, um, or they'll date someone with that potential cause you'll see a woman who'll say, well I married my husband and he had nothing. He was going through school. I was like, okay, what was he going to school for?

What did he become or whatever it was that potential that you were seeking? Now you can make arguments for why is, you know, it was going through school, I was like, what was he going to school for? What did he become or whatever? Was that potential that you were seeking? Now you can make arguments for why is, you know, evolutionary or whatever, but it's just true. And I was even talking about this with my wife and I said, you know, imagine going on a date with a guy and you really like him and then you ask him what he does for a living.

And he goes, oh, I flip burgers at so-and-so and I really have no intentions of whatever. You're probably, your interest in him is gonna drop considerably. That's just tends to happen. For man, it doesn't affect this as much. Like you could meet the girl that flips burgers, be really attracted to her, go out with her and not be like, oh, she just does that.

It's not as important necessarily, other things are important, generally speaking, but there's always, you know, everybody's an individual. But the way she said it, the way she said it was, you know, better than and they have to and that kind of stuff. That's, that's, yeah. But I, I mean, I also think that part of the, I mean, the people that

we're trying to counter so hard on her is, is part of the, the problem with, with the things that we're, you're seeing right now, the, the rise in women that are childless. And then of course I said that and they pissed everybody off too. It's just like, oh, whatever, we're choosing that. I was like, okay, well, that's fine. But if all the women chose not to have children, we don't exist anymore. So it's kind of an important thing that we care a little bit about that.

Maybe you don't personally, that's fine. But it's like, it's an important thing for society for us to reproduce. And that's the main reason why we're here is to be able to do that. So whether you choose to or not, that's. Well, women are an interesting conundrum because in order to be self, like to self, to support yourself and be a professional in the sense that you have, you bring a lot of value to the market, you get educated.

So you're like, okay, I could take care of myself just in case I don't have another partner, no one needs to take care of me, take care of myself. That takes a long time, right? That traditionally it does. Traditionally it means you go to school, then you go to college and you go, you know, maybe advanced degree, then you go get a job, you get some experience, but then you bump up against a biological time limit, which is, uh-oh, if you don't have kids by this time, you're not going to either be able to have kids or it's going

to be real hard. Men don't have that, that, that limit. So men can go and not feel that pressure where you'll hear this from a lot of women. Like I used to train a lot of female professionals and they would tell me like, oh, you know, I remember when I turned this age, all of a sudden I was like, uh-oh, I need to find a partner cause I have like four years left to, in order to have kids. Men don't think that way necessarily because we don't have that biological limit or limiter. So there's a, there's a whole different pressure, um, that set up that I think,

uh, especially with modern society, like it's almost like, how do I choose the right route? And then where do I go? And where do I find these people to date that are gonna, it's challenging anyway. I just, it's complex. It turned the conversation into like this, you know, equality argument of like, are you saying that you're better than your wife? It's like, well, I am better than my wife in some things. And she's much better than me in other things. In fact, she's probably better than me in a lot more things than I'm better than her at.

That makes you a good team as a wife. I mean, that's exactly, but this idea of like, we're gonna be equal in everything. It's ridiculous. That is the silliest thing ever to think that you're gonna have. Just think of it from a business perspective. Think of her business, team, life, like you're gonna have all these equal attributes. Like other business team life, like you're, oh, you're gonna have all these equal attributes.

Like no, and then just to distill it further, it's like the point that she's making is around finances and physical strength. Two things that as a man, I want to be able to do. I want to be able to provide for my wife in today's context. That's financial. That's what that means, what she meant by that. Like it's like back in the times it was that I would literally be able to go hunt, right? I'd be able to go hunt and go kill the animal, bring it back so we could feed, feed my family. In today's time, that's money.

That's going to get, he doesn't mean hunting because I don't know how to hunt. Well, that's right. I mean, I mean, you and I would get crushed back in, back inside. But I mean, I like to believe that when, when, when, uh, you know, uh, you know, deer and, and, and animals that you would hunt was the, the most important commodity you wouldn't be driving to collect jewels, you know, like we've, we've adapted to, to modern time. Oh, why not?

And that's, that's, it's the same thing. I would learn to hunt if I had to. And then the same thing for, for the protect side. Like, I mean, absolutely, I want to be in a physical place to be able to protect my wife. Forget about the who's stronger aspect. And who knows what the future will look like, although that's a whole nother discussion. When you're carrying a child

and then you're breastfeeding a child, you are vulnerable. It only, of course you would want to be with a partner who doesn't have to worry about that to be like, Hey, look, I got this. Cause you right now you're, you know, you're thrown up because of morning sickness or you're, you know, you can't run very fast because you're pregnant or you got to feed the baby all the time. Like you do that. And I'm going to go, I got to go find us some food. So biologically it makes sense that that's evolutionarily, I should say, should say where it came from.

But it's weird this argument. How people get so triggered by it. Yeah, I just think conversations like this, I appreciate people that can speak away from cultural norms in terms of like bringing different perspective in. You don't have to agree with whatever their opinion is or what their thoughts are around it. If it's working for them, why is it working for them?

You know, like, it's just like, she's just bringing up something that's a dynamic that's working for her. And it's like to get vitriol and hate for like something that is working for it seems weird. It tells you a lot though. And when things get triggered, people so much. Just trying to control and cultivate everybody. I wasn't going to go there. I wasn't going to go there.

I wasn't going to go like if you go searching the people that were arguing with me. They go through their profile and just go, hmm. Interesting it's you who's arguing with me. You know, so very predictable that you could see who was going to get so angry about a comment like that. And by the way, like I had some really good discussions with some women on there that disagreed with it. And I don't know if you saw my comments or that I said, I absolutely can take

that criticism. I, I, I agree with the point you're making. Like she definitely could have ordered that differently. Like because she said need and have to have, of course, you know what I'm saying? But I, I understand her general point. And so I agree with her general point. Do I think, and, and I guess being somebody who who who doesn't always articulate my points the best I could I have I tend to be like that I have also I think a lot more empathy for somebody or grace

who says like something like that passionately it's just like oh you know I know where she's coming from you know I'm saying I just so there's there's that part of me that's defending her because of that and it's just like and like, and then if I reflect even more, I also know this is a very, probably what got me engaged is this is a conversation at our household. My wife comes from a matriarch. And so one of the biggest challenges is, is, is to be finding those, those roles, that balance and those roles in the household, especially when she comes from

of such a strong matriarch that her mother taught her like, you do not need a man. In fact, one of the first things that Katrina used to always say to me was that, I love you, but I don't need you. That's something that of course we've evolved and changed in relationship. And she's now looked back and reflects and goes like, I'm so sorry, I used to say that to you.

That's like, that's not the right thing at all. I get where it comes from though. You know what? And that's why it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me. It didn't bother me that she used to say that, but that's how much conditioning that she's had in that direction.

You know what's interesting about that? I get where it comes from by the way, because you don't want to be that person that's insecure. You need the external validation, man or woman, but also the flip side, all people need people. Yes. We are not. Exactly.

We are social creatures. We don't do well by ourselves. That's what science said. Religion, which is a spiritual wisdom size, says we need each other. I mean, isolate yourself, buy yourself, and you will suffer the consequences. It's just period end of story. So like everybody, we need people. I need you guys. Oh, I 100% recognize that I need I'm not who I am today I have I don't have the success I've had today both physically financially all the above if I don't have her 100% a hundred and in our house. I don't think you and even though I have very

It's a fact I text all the time. Yeah, for sure. Thank God for you. Thank God I mean, even though we I think we tend to run our house in a very traditional type fashion It doesn't mean that there's not roles that are switched up. I mean, I do most of the house cleaning and dishes. Okay. So it's not like we're like this one. I'm just like, you know, why can clean you stay in the kitchen? You know, I do this, you know, why?

Cause you're better at it. No, I don't know. You're right. And I care more about it, right? Because that's what that's 10. That's what has, has driven us to divide and conquer in our house. It's not this is the role for a man. This is the role for woman better at, Hey, you're better at this. I'm better at this. Like you focus on that, I'll focus on this and it and that is what is tended

to work out. Now what is interesting is it tends to fall on these kind of traditional roles most of the time. It doesn't mean there's not an exception to the rule and it's not like I don't have friends who have a flip situation where the woman is actually out there making most of the bread and then the husband is doing other things and supporting the house. I think that can work. Of course. Sing it has to be that way.

And, but it's this idea that, man, if someone says something like that, that we, it was just a clip. That's social media design for that, isn't it? Just short clips, no context. Well, that's the other part that's really challenging, right? As a, as a brand or as a business, it's like part of this, you know, and that was the argument I was having with you off air was, you know, you're like, ah, it's not the greatest representation of our brand because we

don't necessarily agree with all that. And I'm like, well, yeah, not with the way it was said, but we agree with the sentiment behind it. And I'm like, but that's also, we have a team of people that we pay and their job is to clip out things. Well, here's the beauty. That will get more. We have a podcast we can talk about it afterwards.

Well, that's what I love about it. What I love about it is that we can, we can put something out like that and then we can explain the context. So now explain to me this case. So the Super Bowl happened not too long ago and I found out, I don't know if this is a true story or not, but I was like, this guy has to be the most brilliant guy ever. Right. He, he was one of the streeters that was out there.

He bet ahead of time that there would be a streeter in Vegas, $50,000 and it ends up like getting arrested, makes bail. I forget it was like 17,000 or something. He had to pay for bail, but then made like $175 know that. Okay, so. That's kind of unbelievable. But I was like, oh, this is brilliant. The Super Bowl has the most prop bets than any other game ever. Like in the, in like, and so I do know there's a ton of prop bets that you could potentially get. I didn't know that was a prop bet.

That would be a streak. But I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, they, but you know, they bet on the length. I have a lot of pros and cons. I mean, I'm not sure if you know that. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, you could potentially get. I didn't know that was a prop bet. Uh, but I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, they, but you know, they bet on the length of the

national anthem, right? Because you don't know who's going to sing it. So, and some people sing it slow and some people sing it fast. Wait, but that's got to be illegal. He bet that there'd be a streak. I know he was the streaker. Yeah. And he was the street.

I know he's a Florida guy came to the Illegal there's a loophole there that I think people would take I think they're gonna If they hadn't like you know any parameters around I'm sure there Are you looking up right now Doug to see if you have trying to find it cuz I didn't know that was I know there's a lot Now that you said that though Prop it how would they know that you wouldn't have your friend do it? What if you and your friend went in on it? Yeah, been a hundred bucks exactly you'll go to jail. I'll bail you out And also maybe he came clean about it later after you won the money right but nobody knew that he actually did that I did not hear okay. I found it okay

So according to LA times the offshore bedding site never paid the amount to the guy because he admitted the bedding scheme During an interview and it went viral. They didn't pay him. What an idiot. What a dummy for admitting that Why would you turn from the smartest guy to the dumbest dumbest guy? Wow conversation. What a $40,000 for front-row seats to pull this off. He paid 40,000 for front-row seats Okay, actually if you think about it, you'd have these up if he hit 150 40,000 plus the bail He's still up big still up, but I mean with not much What a dumb dumb. That's. Yeah, that's super stupid. At least get the money in your,

I don't even know if I'd say in the afterwards. Yeah, no, don't ever say anything. Yeah, that's like, you just, you found a hack. Yeah, you made your money, tell your close friends. Oh, hey, remember that thing? Yeah, that'd be cool. Did I, I told you guys off air. I don't know if I talked about it on air with you guys.

Did I tell you that there's like, there's a, there's now AI apps and stuff like that for, that are hacking some of these betting apps. Yeah. That like, and they'll work up the odds and yes. Yeah. I didn't even know that I didn't even know that existed. I didn't know the stock market too. Oh really? Yeah. Lightning fast, uh, you know, and they'll catch the rhythm of something and sell, sell, sell. So you have this massive selling,

but now I think that they have limits on it. How accurate are the, yeah. Well, they have software to, the software to combat it? Right? There's software that can pick it up and see at least on the betting side. So I imagine, of course, they would have that for dude, I got it. I got to tell you guys, I watched probably one of my favorite movies of all time this weekend, you watched you and two also. It's and I'm there with you, bro. Like I was in epic. Doug and I were scheduled to go see it. And then

you guys sent them were like, oh, we're not gonna go now It was invalidate I were all booked to go like oh my god favor no no read read the reviews on it. It was I've heard from everybody Reviews got incredible reviews like it looks sick. Do you know how hard it is to embed? culture religion Reviews got incredible reviews. Like it looks sick. Do you know how hard it is to embed a culture, religion, fantasy, sci-fi, make it seem realistic, make it seem like it just like combines so many of these elements. There's like a scientific way to explain all of this magic sorcery.

Yes. The whole thing, like everything actually made sense. I think that's the hardest thing to nail with sci-fi or any kind of futuristic type of story. And the religion that they put in there, the religious undertones and then how the empire, it just, it was so epic. The Ben and Jezorette, it's so parallel

to what you would think if somebody was masterminding everything in the world, they portray it through the bed and Jesuit like so well. Yeah. I was like, I went by myself. Isn't it interesting how, isn't it interesting how there tends to be the spectrum of movies that go like crazy? I thought you either have, um, it's so not believable. Okay.

So like X men, like Marvel type bullshit. that's like not believable over the top. And then you have like the part of why you guys say it's, and I agree with this. Like, so I, we watched some old movies this, this last weekend or whatever that fugitive was one of them. And I was like breaking down to Katrina, why I, other than the great acting by Harrison Ford, so that why I think it, it did so well. And I said, you know what, when you think of a movie, like they normally make that character. Harrison Ford, if he's the guy who breaks out of jail and like is running. Like they make him like Jason Bourne.

Yeah. He also knows Jiu Jitsu and he can take on five cops. You know what I'm saying? He jumps out of helicopters, but he's not. He's like just a smart doctor, husband who's running for his life and he's struggling the whole way through. And I'm like, they make it realistic. Like you actually can see yourself in that character and go like,

Yeah, there's enough drama there to portray. It's like, it's gonna, it's gonna carry you. And I'm like, when have you seen that this type of character like that in a movie get portrayed like that? He's normally super human. You know what I'm saying? So with Dune, the thing that I think captured me the most was the different cultures and how well they presented each culture, how different they were and how they didn't hammer you with it with over explanations.

They just went about their business. They just blended them. And as you watched, yeah, you could, yeah, like the Fremen have their culture. People, the Harkinans have their culture very distinct in the way that they communicate and the way that they act. And it was, it was, it's one of those movies I'm gonna watch again. And so it's cool. And, you know, you've seen, even the first one, they kind of went over the technology of vibration and how that kind of opens up and moves around the sand.

And it makes a lot of logical sense. Well, uh, so, have you ever heard of like worm grunting before? Okay. So like there's this, there's two guys, I saw some like documentary about this a long time ago, but they're like earthworm farmers. And so they would go into like the swamps and they would place like this wooden stake into the ground and they would take like one of these like metal files and just kind of grind it on top of the stump or on top of the

stake and it would send this like weird grunting vibration into the ground. He's like, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Like everybody was tripping out because it was so easy for them to like harvest all these worms instead of the old traditions where you'd had to like dig and like makes you wonder who came. How do they discover that? Who came up with that? Who thought of that? It's so wild to me. Like who? Some dude was just playing with a stick like what? Yeah.

Keep doing that. Yeah. Look at all these worms coming up. But it's just like, I don't know. You see kind of like some some parallels to that, you know, in the movie and stuff. But it's just like, I like how it's it's believable. Like there was like, you know, you see kind of like some parallels to that, you know, in the movie and stuff, but I was just like, I like how it's believable. Like there was like, you know, real ways that to like, anyway, I don't want to like spoil the movie for people.

But yeah. I haven't seen it yet, so don't ruin it for me. Oh, we got, we got to make a correction before I forget. We got something wrong. We've got something wrong. You got something wrong. Hey, don't throw me in this. Rule of thumb, you got it wrong.

Hey. And I asked. You're a team here. Look, all of a wrong. I know you don't. Don't throw me in this. Rule of thumb, you got it wrong. Hey. And I asked. We're a team here. Look, all of a sudden. I asked again about it. I repeated it because I was a B doc, Saints Black Church. You're blaming on me. We're a team.

I was telling you, you say I own. I was telling Doug, I was like, what bad timing? The Jen Cohen clip goes, and then you talking about using the stick to beat women is all that's wrong. That's not what I said. Rule of thumb is not, I didn't know it was a myth. It was not based off of an old rule. So you could hit your wife with a stick as long as it was

in thicker than your thumb. That's made up. That's not real. Yeah. Rule of thumb, because it was a measurement, a unit of measurement for, uh, like measuring grain or whatever, because it's typically about an inch long. Yeah.

That's what it was. I wonder who made up that one about. Well, somebody said Boondock Saints said it, which is probably where you got it from. Well, yeah, it was something like tough, you know, labor lady that brought that up is like a sort of a knock on that. And you believe it. You're like, oh yeah. Well, it was so convincing.

I don't know. I feel like that was probably in the Wikipedia or, you know, like it was in on the internet somewhere before that. You know, somebody said, say everything's on the internet. Right? Hey, I wonder how it's probably come from nowhere. Well, if you guys have seen boondocks, I'm sure it came from that. It says, uh, it's, it's not true.

Yeah. Yeah. But where, where did it originate? I don't think it originated. Uh, what did I say? Sir Francis Bueller is reported as having made this legal ruling. Okay. Well, whatever.

Yeah. It's not about the stick. What does that say? It is. No, this has been said. See, in the internet will lie to you half the time. Yeah. That's not true.

It's not. Is it? Wait a minute. Yeah, I don't think it's true. I've done some research as well. This is all pre-righted days too. Like, I don't know, man. Listen, but I wonder how many things we believe to be true

that went viral before the internet. You know what I mean? Like blowing the Nintendo cartridge and stuff. That's still true, I'm convinced. Yeah, they see it. Bro, I have a new, I brought a Nintendo again, right? And I could mess with it all day long. I've blown that, so it works.

Yeah, I said, you guys, who's the one that sent the meme with the Nintendo cartridges talking to it? Is that you? Yeah. One of the Nintendo cartridges like, bro, trust me, who's the one that sent the meme with the Nintendo cartridges talking? Is that you? Yeah. One of the Nintendo cartridges like, bro, trust me, scrape yourself with a pen. He's like, why? I just trust me.

He does it. And then later the guy's blowing in him. There were things like, I'm trying to think of what else we thought, you know, things that were viral that we believed, they'll come into me, but I never challenged them because I just thought them to be true. Yeah. That one was pretty funny that that one came.

Cause we had a lot of urban legends. I am so annoyed about that. Anyway, so who was it? I was talking about the potatoes from Butcher box. Oh, that's me. So I got, so one of our, one of our favorite dishes right now, and I didn't know that Butcher box, I didn't even know that this came from her or came from them. Katrina normally does the potatoes when I grill, grill the meat.

And we have this like, she does this like garlic and cheese, Justin, you would love it, just a little bit of cheesy and melt some and bakes in the oven with like the small potatoes. And that's kind of been like our staple. And she had these other ones that she did in the air fryer this last time. And I'm like, oh my God, these are so good. She's like, oh, they're from Butcher box. And I was like, potatoes?

Yeah, yeah. So I actually, I took a picture because I knew that the next time we had a commercial that I would bring them up because they were so good. Are they prepped? They're already done. You just reheat them, basically. So we just threw, so I think there, it says,

I even think on the box, it actually tells you like, I think I sent to the executive Doug, did I send it to the executive thread? Yeah, you did. Let me pull up. So I didn't, I didn't know one that they work with this brand, because this brand is actually the same brand that we get the other potatoes that we do the the cheese and stuff with. So Rosemary, and then sea salt has like chicken drippings on it and it's fully cooked already You just it takes 15 minutes to reheat it We did it in the air fryer to make them kind of crispy. Yeah, so good but your box has a lot of I have to check again They have a lot of those add-ons that they'll come and go and and you'll find all kinds of I don't think this is this I believe this is the same company that does the already pre-made mix that I do the make the burritos with the potatoes and everything like that

the already pre-made mix that I do the make the burritos with the potatoes and everything like that. Yeah, I believe so. They actually have like bone broth as well. You can buy like whole foods. It's a really good company. Oh, okay. Yeah. Are you looking at the brand right now that I sent over? Yeah, I'm trying to post it.

I don't think it's a butcher box brand. They partnered with another company, right? It's Roli Roti. I don't think butcher box is a brand that makes any of, any of their, well, the, the, the, their chicken nuggets, those are ButcherBox, aren't they? Yeah. They have their brand on some of their packaging. Yeah, they have their brand on stuff.

I mean, the meat. Which by the way, we still eat like, we eat those as adults. We just eat chicken. No, that's, that's. I don't even care it's a stereotype with me, dude. I'm all in, dude. You know, I, you know, it's funny is that I eat them with grapes. We have to.

We, we consistently have those now. And I was, this is a little while back. It hasn't been, it's been a while now, but I went through a McDonald's with Max and I got like some chicken nuggets like on the go. We're driving somewhere and I'm like, let's get some of those. I was hungry.

It really was really more about me. And I was like, I'll share with him. And so different. Processed. Oh my God. So different. I mean, I knew that obviously because I've been eating it share with him. And so different. Processed. Oh my God, so different. I mean, I knew that obviously, because I've been eating it, but it's been so long, cause I've actually had a chicken mnugget from McDonald's

that you don't really tell the, it's so interesting. Isn't it interesting how our palate gets conditioned? Well, if you eat it enough, then it's like, crave it, right? Then I would probably crave McDonald's. Can you taste how processed it is? Oh yeah. It's crazy.

It doesn't eat, if you have been eating the butcher box ones and then you go introduce the McDonald's one, you won't even like it. No, it's. Oh yeah. It's crazy. It doesn't eat. If you have been eating the, the, the butcher box ones and then you go introduce the McDonald's one, you won't even like it. No, it's night and day, but I do know what you're saying it because that's, I've seen that happen before where I consistently eat something that's like, man, not that good. And then all of a sudden I remember when I first learned that, uh, uh, what are the Pringles that Pringles potato chips were not,

were pros were, were processed potato chips. I don't powdered like, uh, it's not even like, like sliced. that Pringles potato chips were processed potato chips. It's powdered, like, it's not even like sliced potato. No, it's not sliced off potatoes and fried. It's powdered potato, obviously. So I remember. It's perfect. I didn't know that.

I had a friend who was eating them, and I'm eating them, like, they taste different than regular potato chips. And then their mom was like, well, these are processed. I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, I didn't really know what that entailed. Yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, duh, they all fit perfectly together on top of your. Now, are there, do other chips do that? I mean, or I would think that like Doritos are super processed too.

Well, Doritos are made with corn. So that's corn mashed together and then pressed into shapes. Okay. Regular potato chips are just like sliced off the potato. Are lays really true sliced? No, they're sliced. They are. They just get fried. So Pringles is the only one that went that rough? The one that I know of, where they take potato flakes.

Ruffles or something else where they make shapes out of them. I would assume. No, ruffles or slice too. Are they? They just use a slicer that slices them. Interesting. Have you ever, has anyone ever counted the Pringles to compare to like a regular bag of chips? Is it more or less?

Good question. It's probably more, right? Cause it's so packed in there. That's what I'm, I mean, you would think if it was more, that'd be a great marketing strategy. Like I would do, I would use that as like a strategy of like, oh, we give you 20% more chips. I never liked Pringles. I never did. I was, were they inspired by tennis balls?

Oh, the can. Yeah. Right. It's like the same can, I swear. And then there's always that much room in between that's like compressed air. Did you guys like that? Was it satisfying to you as well

to open a can of the tennis balls? Yeah, it comes out. Yeah, it was. But it's 100 chips in one can of Pringles. Yeah. So that can't be more. Yeah, that's probably less. Let's go. Well, you think about about a bag of like lays chips though. There's so much space in between. Oh, I know it's like 50% air Yeah, you open it

That protects the chips everybody is that is that right? Yeah, you want air in there? Is that is that the thought process behind that is that that's supposed to protect the chips is that what they say? I don't know. Yeah, it's probably more of a marketing that is that that's supposed to protect the chips is that what they say? I don't know. Yeah, it's probably more of a marketing. Maybe they tell guys like you that. We're looking out for you. You're a bamboozled. We're protecting your chips. Have you ever seen like all the different types of glassware and things like how they just like use angles and things to reduce the amount of volume like crazy like like rocks glasses like all like for bars. Oh, it makes so much less volume just because it's like tapered in or it's like, you know, it's just, it's, it's funny because they use like optical illusion like that and their benefits.

So a bag of ruffles, an eight and a half ounce bag of ruffles is 121 chips. Oh, so you get an eight ounce bag of lays 150. You're getting ripped off. Pringles. get an eight ounce bag of lays 150. You're getting ripped off. Pringles. Pringles is 5.2 ounces. Oh, so it's a smaller can. That's why they're not marketing.

So it's more compact. Oh yeah, but what's the price? So is it similar in price, Andrew? Or are they like, so a lays eight ounce bag. By the way, none of these sponsor the show. So I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can roll them out of the box.

You guys never thought about that? I guess I just, that's me. Like, that's the type of weird stuff I think about. Like, I see the way it's bad, everything like that. Right away, I go like, oh, is there, are we getting over on, like your point, the illusion, like, I see that all the time. Like, you see that at coffee shops where they have like the tiny little coffee mugs and like, you see all these things.

Sure, they factor that in. I got fooled, I got fooled by a video once where this guy showed two size of Starbucks cups and he poured liquid in and said, oh, they're the same. I seen that viral video. And I was like, what? I seen that. It's very convincing. That's impossible.

I don't think it's possible. Makes you think they're ripping it off? Yeah, I know. Who's our shout out for today? I have a shout out to keep an eye on our good friend, Max Lugavir right now. So Max, his doc is set to release it this month or next month. No way. I can't wait.

Yeah. Oh, that's gonna be good. So I was gonna have an LA premiere. I think he told me he's gonna have a Northern California premiere also. And I said, please keep the guys and I posted because I would love to be able to attend it. Yeah, I love to support that. Yeah.

But yeah, it's gonna happen. It's happening. Yeah, really, really soon here. I, I love to support that. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's gonna happen. It's happening. Yeah. Really, really soon here. I can't wait to see that released. Element is an electrolyte powder. You add to your water that gives you the right amount of sodium to fuel your workouts, give you better pumps, help you recover.

Most electrolyte powders don't have enough sodium. Element T does. It's also not artificially flavored and there's also no sugar. And if you go through our link, you can get, you can go check them out yourself. Go to drink elementy.com forward slash mine pump. They have a lot of flavors there. Go check them out. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Andrew from Indiana. What's up, Andrew? Hey guys. Hey, how y'all doing? Good brother. How are you doing?

Good man. Hey, uh, I run in power lift for the third time, uh, and I would just run that program over and over, but, uh, not really sustainable, but I love it so much. I find myself getting a lot stronger in phase two and phase three. And I know, uh, power lift is really prescriptive based off percentages really to set me up for the next workout for the long term. But I find myself, I'm really pacing way ahead of some of the percentages. So even when I get to the end,

after I've run it a couple of times, I'll, I've done the program straight through a couple of times and I find that my one rep max, I can lift them much more than what I'm going through on the program. So really, I just wanted to ask, I know powerless one of the programs we wouldn't want to adjust much, but if I was going to push the percentages a little bit, how would I do that? Would I recalculate my one rep max? Would I just

add five, 10 pounds? What's your advice there? So my question would be why would you want to do that? Do you think it's going to be faster or better, better strength gains? Is that the idea? Yeah, I think so. And just because I, I find myself being significantly stronger, not like five pounds and really trying just like, like 15 or 20 pounds, like, and maybe 20 pounds is a little heavy, but maybe 15 pounds, uh, more as I get to the end of the workout. So my recovery is good.

And usually in any other maps program, I would just kind of balance that. I would push it a little bit. And if I saw my recovery program, I would just kind of balance that. I would push it a little bit. And if I saw my recovery dipping, I would back off. Uh, and if I pushed and felt good, then I keep going, but power lift, I know it was really prescriptive. And I just don't want to get out over my skis and, uh, start lifting more in the second phase and then not really be ready for that final part of it.

So I'll say this. So because power, power lift is very, obviously it's, it's powerlifting specific. It's strength specific. Now, are the programs high perititrophy goals, mobility goals, athletic performance, just a little bit more multifaceted. But let me illustrate this by telling you a little, like a Soviet era style of training for squats. So what they would do is they would take an athlete, and let's say this athlete could do 315 for four 14 reps. That was their max.

What then what the athlete would do is they would do 10 reps, um, every day, even though it was way below what they could do, they could do four more reps. They would just do 10 reps. And after the second week, they're like, Oh my God, I think I could do 20 reps and the coach would be like, no, just do 10, just do 10, just do 10. Then at the end of 30 days or 45 days, they would test their one rep max and it

would have exploded far above and beyond, had they continued to raise the weight to match their strength. In other words, this is a part of training for strength is feeling exactly how you feel in that second and third phase. When you get to the very end, that's when you test. That's when you express it. Yes. So could you add more weight to kind of push it a little bit?

You could, but I would argue it probably wouldn't get you better results. It might actually. Yeah, you're more likely to not. Right. You're more likely to get worse results. What you're feeling is exactly what you want to feel in a powerlifting program.

You want to go through the phases and train and be like, oh, I know this says 90%, but this feels like more like 80%. That's what you want to feel like when you're when you're in those phases, it is until the end that then you push to see where you're at and what you'll find and again, the strength athletes and strength coaches that work specifically with power lifters will tell you like this produces the best results.

Yeah, powerlifting is beautiful because you I do I go through those first couple of phases and I think hey, this is I'm not really pushing and I get to the end and each time I wonder at max just goes up consistently and with good form and you feel really solid and it's helped me tremendously and I just I intertwined and weave it in with anabolic or performance or split whatever it is and I just keep getting stronger so it's a great program and I think that's good advice just stay the course you're also the client. Okay. I'm going to play devil's advocate a little bit too.

You're also the client that I would allow to learn this lesson the hard way too. Meaning that you've done this multiple times. You've you've seen what it does when you when you trust the process and do it. And then it's like, because here's the thing, like it is a percentage. It is a guesstimate. There's going to be, there's always an individual variance. There's also the other variables of what's going on in your life and maybe you're just crushing everything and you are. This is the time where you could stretch it a little bit more

and maybe you could squeeze out a little bit and you're the type of person who's already done this multiple times and so I would maybe give you that freedom or latitude of, okay, well, if you think so, Andrew, you think that you're going to get a little bit more, let's go ahead, go ahead and give you an extra five or 10 pounds and then let's see what the end result is and you know, if you think so, Andrew, you think that you're going to get a little more, let's go ahead, go ahead and give your extra five or 10 pounds. And then let's see what the end result is. And, you know, maybe you, maybe you do get a little more, or maybe you get exactly the same, or maybe you get less. And so, you know, I mean, that's what this is all about. And you're, if you were somebody who like, I'm very familiar with who you are, how long you've been listening, and how many programs you've gone through of ours. And so it's not like you're this

brand new person who's coming to PowerLift to have no idea what you're doing and like you're already wanting to stretch the limits. I think I'd be more stern about listen, dude, trust the process. You know, we're pretty good at what we do. I promise you're gonna be happy. But I think that you've already done that two or three times and you have a fair question, you know. Yeah, and you're already breaking it up with anabolic and performance. Have you run symmetry as a sort of bridge between power lift before? Yeah, and I ran that after the second time I ran power lift and symmetry for me was like, okay, this is going to be boring. And

but you know, you go through it because you know that's the right thing to do. And after I did that, it was tremendous, just the payoff that that program makes a symmetry. If somebody's out there and they're listening and they think, Hey, symmetry is not really from me. Just run it and do it because it pays off and it made a huge difference. And just my overall, just being balanced all over my body, exactly what the program's for. So it was just tremendous. Yeah.

Yeah. No. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. You'll get in what you're explaining and how you're feeling is what I'm looking for when someone's training for powerlifting. That's what I'm looking for. What I'm not looking for is like, oh, every week I get stronger, but I'm really pushing hard and whatever, and we'll typically back off. Think of powerlifting training as practice.

Um, that's what it should feel like. You're practicing the lift and then the big reveal is at the end. Is the game, yeah. Which is just like, you know, that, you know, anybody's played a sport, like you're not, you're not, you know, sacrificing your body and diving for the basketball and doing things that could hurt yourself in the, in practice, you're practicing everything and getting very good at it, but you're running it probably 80%. You're never running it 100. That fatigue component plays a bigger role in hypertrophy than it does in strength. But you already run other programs with that.

So I would say change nothing. What you're feeling is exactly what you want to write on point. Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. All right, Andrew. Thanks for calling in. Thanks guys.

All right. Take care. I like how he got all nice with the suit and everything. Yeah. Yeah. You see your book in the background. I did see that. Yeah. That's a great, the background. I did see that.

That's a great project. You know, I just watched a video with Dr. Stuart McGill. Is that his name? Yep. And he was training a power lifter and trying to build lat strength. So they were doing pull ups. And this is literally, it was a big deal.

This is literally what he did with the guy. He had the guy stand in front of the bar, grab the bar, activate his lats, get tight. Do one hard pull up, come down and then the rest. The guy could have probably done 10 to 15 to, to, to, you know, to actually work out a right, but all he did was one. And he says, I have my athletes. Do you literally 15 or 30 sets of just one?

And it produces explosive strength gains. That's what he's experienced with West Pat, Mass Par mass power lift. I'm so on board with this mentality. It is such a new thing that I wish I would have applied when I was an athlete, like coming up through all these different sports that I played. It's just like to train at that level to where you're not incorporating fatigue, you're just mastering these movements. It's game changer. Yes.

And it develops power and strength, which is what these absolutely to lick it for. Yeah. No, I mean, your advice was spot on. He is the type of person though that if I'm trying to play with it. Yes. Just so he can learn that, like, cause you know how it is in the back of your head, you're always going to go, you know, what, what if I just want to

be safe, but then let me get the best. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So he's, but he's all, I mean, he's done the program already, what, three times already. Yeah. And he even said, like, he's paying attention to how he feels afterwards.

And so it's like, you know, that type of client, if we were training together, like I was, okay, let's go ahead and see it. We'll go ahead and add a little five. Spill over a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Spill over a little bit. Let's see how, how, and then, and then, and then you feel it.

And then you realize like, oh, shit, okay, I just need to stay. This is what it's supposed to feel like right now. He's questioning that is this was what it's supposed to feel like and the answer is yes Our next caller is Dylan from Florida. What's up Dylan? So man, what's up guys? How you doing? How can we help you? Hey, man, just just gotta say real quick. Thank you for everything all the fitness information I hopped on maps and a ball at before I was doing splits and got the leanest and the strongest that ever been blew my mind So just want to say thank you guys. Oh, yeah, what you got for us

All right, so my question I said I'm currently halfway through anabolic advanced and I was having trouble with two things When going to failure on the weeks we do failure training does that mean I quite literally cannot do another rep I know you say to go to form breakdown, but is it possible to go to the point where you cannot do another rep without breaking form? And then my second question was, during the failure weeks, are we supposed to still be lifting slow,

like the volume weeks, or are we supposed to go heavy and rep it out at a regular tempo? All right, so for the first question, it is possible. Yeah, good question, by the way. Yeah, it is possible to go to the point where you can't move the bar without breaking form, but that takes a lot of discipline and understanding.

That's a very advanced lifter to do. I mean, we do that, I know you do that. Yeah, I know how to stop before my body twists or my elbow moves out of position, right? But most people can't do that. So most people, I would say, stop the rep before. We're like, oh, you know, you're grinding it up, you're like, there's no way I'll be able to get another rep

and then stop there. And it really doesn't make that big of a difference where you go, but stopping a rep halfway through without twisting your body, moving your knee, your hip or whatever, that takes very, very good. You need safety bars. Yeah, lots of self-awareness too, and yes, safety bars. So that would be the first part.

The second part, you want controlled reps because what you'll find is you're going to get really strong or stronger. And going to failure, the risk, the injury risk is higher. And so you're better out going slow because you won't use as much weight. That's just the bottom line. And I found that with myself. Like I was getting really heavy with the squats and rather than adding weight, I slowed down the reps and it was just, it served me a lot better. Okay. Yeah. It makes sense.

I was getting toasted after those barbell squats. I was just going heavy, trying to rep it out for failure. And I was just like, I was getting destroyed. Yeah. Yeah. I just slowed down the rep, you know, four second negative type of deal. Um, and then go to failure, those failure. What, how far along are you in the program?

Well, at that point I was halfway through. I didn't know finishing it because I was kind of getting burnt out. I think probably because I was, I was going super heavy on those failure days. Yep. Yep. Yep. You got it. You definitely want to control the rep so that you're not just adding cause

you'll, your strength probably in the initial, he went up very quickly and that'll burn you out for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome guys. Thank you. You you out for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome, guys. Thank you. You got it, man. Are you following any programs now?

Can we send you something? I mean, if you guys want to send me something, I would really appreciate it. I'm following. So this is my plan right now. I don't know. Actually, I wanted to ask you guys if this is going to be too much volume back to back.

I'm in an anabolic right now. I was thinking about going to aesthetic and then straight into the split. Yeah. Yep, the answer is yes, too much volume. So you're in anabolic right now. I was thinking about going to aesthetic and then straight into the split. Yeah Yep, the answer is yes too much volume. So you're an anabolic right now. Okay interrupt it with symmetry. I'm in anabolic right now All right follow symmetry afterwards. Mm-hmm. We'll send that to you after anabolic. Yep Okay, awesome guys. I think thank you appreciate it a lot. You got it man. Thanks for calling in Yeah, thank you Thanks for calling in.

Yeah, thank you. Did he mean he was in anabolic advance? Yeah. Yeah. No, now he's an anabolic. He was in anabolic advance. Now he switched to regular maps and a ball. Oh, okay. But he wanted to go aesthetic either way.

That's a good follow up. Yeah. Yeah. The whole like going to failure, you got to be smart with it. It does produce very quick strength gains and you're better off with controlled tempo to increase the, the, the fine line of skirt. Yeah, dude. Cause you want, I know my ego kicks in. I mean, this morning I worked out with my ego and it's like, you just want to throw weight.

Um, and, uh, the shark eyes come out, then you get reminded because your body injures. Well, I mean, great question. And I think it just highlights, um, why we waited as long as we did to release a program that programmed failure into it. It's just, it's such a fine line and it's not that you can't and there's not tremendous value and studies to support. The benefits of failure training is just that it's so overly abused that you're more likely to overreach than you are to hit it right on the nose. And it just takes a lot of years of discipline and practice to get to that point.

And I think we just, you misinterpret that those initial gains that you get from the failure training to like, oh, this is the better way of training. And then you just start to adopt that. And it's like, no, it's like you have to be judicious, judicious about how much you use it. That's right. Our next caller is Andrew from South Africa.

Andrew, what's happening? How can we help you? Good evening. Good evening. I love watching your show. I was just watching one now and I'm, yeah. Um, yeah, I love your content. Thanks for giving me.

You guys do, um, really cool to be joining you as night on this side. Um, I'll just, I suppose head into the background and the context and then eventually get towards the question. Sure. All right. Um, so. So, um, interesting journey in May last year. I looked very different. I was weighing, I mean, I've converted everything to pounds because I know you guys don't work in kilograms. But yeah,

May last year I was weighing 222 pounds. I went down to my lowest weight, which was 167 pounds. That I got there sort of end of November, early December. I've managed to gain four pounds. Now I was sitting on 77.8 kilograms. Basically a lot of calorie content. What's it a deficit of like 180,000 calories to get here? Been an epic journey. But yeah, sort of since December, I got to stage where I was dropping

weight very quickly. And he went from a stage of dropping sort of kilograms at a time, you know, some of the one state I was dropping a kilogram, four kilograms a month, sorry, 8.8 pounds, 10 pounds a month, I was dropping. And then sort of in December, I started moving into the more of a, okay, so now I've lost weight. Where am I going to from? Yeah, you know, so I went into more of an aesthetics type of focus, you know, so now I've been training hard, I train five times a week, two muscle groups, if I'm doing a focus group, like, like the smaller muscles like arms, I'll do three times a week. I'm still counting calories. It's a very hard behavior to stop in terms of, like I know I watched your videos about intuitive eating and I've tried to get into it,

but the thought sort of terrifies me quite a bit. But sort of right now where I'm at is that I'm on 2,000 calories a day, Monday to Thursday, 2,000 to 2,200 calories four times a week. And then on the weekends, I sort of relax, family, time, friends, don't count calories, relax it. And with that behavior, I've managed to sort of stay the same. What's interesting though is that from, I think I sent you guys

the photograph from December to now, the body is still changing all the time, which is quite exciting to see. So I think getting into the question, sorry about all the context, I suppose now what I'm looking at doing is that like, I never really thought where I want to end up if you guys have suggestions that love them. But sort of something I wanted to talk about is how do you move from, yeah, calorie counting and you know, sustainable weeks, we talk, you guys talk about calorie counting on the channel, everyone talks about

calorie counting just up them just down there. But like, there is that real life thing about being a family guy going out on weekend sink friends and like, you don't want to be that dude at a wedding like this weekend, I've got a wedding sitting there, go on that secret logging my calories at a wedding trying to guess what it is. So I suppose I'm, yeah, it's just how do you sustainably sort of get into that calorie counting mindset and go into I think I would like to keep on growing I have been growing a little bit, you know, and like, I know I need to eat more. I am still gaining strength as I train, but like, yeah, I don't know what I would say, probably less than 10% a month, a little bit lower.

But yeah, I'm early in the journey. I've only really been pushing the weights really hard since December. Um, but yeah, it's sort of where to from. Yeah. And I suppose I've spoken a lot. Yeah. And no, great, great context. And phenomenal job, phenomenal job.

You're doing a really good job. Great transformation, yeah. You might be overthinking a little bit. Now, I do think that a bulk and a slow bulk is going to serve you well. I think getting stronger is great. And the stronger you get, the more muscle we build, the more the faster your metabolism will be and the more, the more flexibility you'll have with your diet. Now you came from a place where you lost a lot of weight.

So your fear is gaining body fat again. The opposite of my fear when I was, you know, when I was, you know, back in the day, I was like, I didn't want to go on a cut. So telling you to go on a bulk probably feels the same way, but that's going to be your best bet. And I think you'll feel your best with that. You also can approach it though, because I know that the goal here is to move to this kind of intuitive eating, right?

And you're already practicing this on the weekend. So you're not, you're not that far from it. I know it just sounds probably scary to do it for the whole week now. Uh, and maybe what a transition looks like is maybe flip that, maybe, uh, be a little more, uh, calculated on the weekends for two days and be a little more flexible on the weeks to see how that works out before you go all seven days. And, but I think you're all, you've already kind of figured out how to do that. My suggestion would be, I think you've done an incredible job on the aesthetic part, right? You lost all this way to think your

physique looks great, you look really healthy. Now I'd go all performance focused and allow the way you eat to be dictated by your performance in the gym and how you feel. That's a great way. Versus getting focused on am I getting fatter, am I adding weight, forget about the scale, forget all that, like you're in a great place right now. You're eating a healthy amount of calories, but I would like to see you eating more. And so I would go towards like maybe like one of our performance programs and really, or even something like Power Lift, that would be a great one for you is to try and get really strong and focus more on the weight on the bar and getting stronger, while also feeding the body when you're hungry and just make good choices. Allow yourself that freedom to eat when you want to eat, but just make good choices when you do that. And I don't, like I always say, don't eat like an asshole.

And I think you will do really well and, and don't like, if you, like, especially when you're training for performance, you, uh, the hardest part will come with the hardest part will be for you is the appetite's going to increase, which is a really good sign. It means that your body is saying, feed me. I need more. We're growing. I'm trying to build muscle.

Don't be afraid of that. Just, just eat good choices. And I promise if you make good choices, high protein meals with good, good, like stay away from sugars and saturated fat and tons of stuff like that, just eat good balanced meals and feed yourself when you're hungry. I think you're going to get the best of both worlds. I think it's going to ease you into the intuitive eating. And I also think it's going to continue to shape your physique up

and look even better than where you're currently already at. Yeah, your, here's one step you can take is to just hit your protein targets and get a good general idea of what, like let's say your protein targets are 150 grams a day, let's just say, you know what 50 grams of protein looks like in a serving of, of let's say chicken fish or beef. Well, then just make sure that you hit that. And then the rest, don't worry about it. That's one step away from tracking everything. And that tends to take care of everything else. You're doing a good job, dude. I mean, you're doing a really good job. I think you're, you're going to see some great, if you, I think Adam gave you the best advice, you go on

power lift and try and get strong. I think you're going to see some great. If you, I think Adam gave you the best advice. You go on power lift and try and get strong. I think you're going to see some incredible new world in the performance direction. Yeah. Yeah. So you'll, you'll, you'll catch fire with that and then see kind of where that leads you, but there's a lot of different options leading after power. Power lifts probably the best to build that base of just pure strength.

So what I love to do is we'll send over power lift to you. We'll also give you access to the forum. So you're in there with us. And then if you just keep in touch with us through the process. So, cause what will happen, cause it does with clients that have lost a lot of weight like you, is you'll probably get in your own head at one point and let us be there to kind of talk you off the ledge and let you know if you're doing a good job and to stay the course.

So use the forum like that. Check in with us. Let us know, you know, as you're going through the program, how you're feeling, what's going on strength wise, and we'll keep you on track. I think that you're in a really good place right now, but I think that that's the transition I would move you into to get you towards the intuitive eating. And I think you, you already kind of have a good idea.

You're doing on the weekends already. And just again, during the weekdays, you're probably less likely to go out with friends and drink and do those things. And so, and Sal gives great advice. I love to have my clients, Hey, just focus on the protein. Just get your protein intake that let that be the only thing you track right now and make good choices. Just don't don't eat like an asshole and train the way you are. And I promise that you're, you, it will, it's really, really hard to over consume enough to where you're going to put on a excess amount of body fat. If you're training properly, you're hitting your protein intake and you're

hitting mostly all whole foods. I mean, then you're, you're most likely just going to build muscle. Yeah. Good luck putting on body fat that way. That's actually hard to do. And you're most, and most everything's's gonna get allocated over into building muscle. So long as you stay away from like overindulging and binging and drinking and doing, like if you just...

If you're worried about the slippery slope, you know, that people tend to fear, keep a journal and write in the journal how you feel. And then that'll keep you aware of, oh, I'm starting to get those bad behaviors with food or I'm starting to use it as a way to, you know, um, so a journal can help you with that self-awareness, but I think what we're saying right now is going to do it. You, you, you sound like you're totally on the right track. Yeah, thanks guys. All that you're saying is sort of, I think what you're doing is giving

me permission, like let go. Yep. You've got the weight loss thing now now just folk like you said another thing just focus on strength, focus on your eating, chill out a little bit of it. Like you said, you're going to notice yourself at the stage of the sensitivity, you're going to notice that you're overdoing the calories. Just something just out of interest what I've struggled with with eating is getting enough carbs and I don't know if that's just because carbs have got more calories than them. And I've been sticking to things. So like the protein, I can hit 200 grams a day really easily.

But like carbs, if I hit like 160 on a strict day, like, oh, I've done really well for myself. So I don't know if you've got any advice for people that have not eaten a lot of carbs. You know, I think a lot of this has been fueled by my own body fat that was there before. But like, sorry to change the topic a little bit there, but like carbs is always one worry about whether I'm having lot of this has been fueled by my own body fat that was there before, but like, um, yeah, sorry to change the topic a little bit there, but like carbs is always one worry about whether I'm having enough of it or is

it like you said earlier, follow. If you're hungry, you're probably not eating enough food. Yeah. That's it. Go buy hunger and performance. You know how I like to use carbs, uh, perform stick to whole natural foods, stick to easily digestible carbs. Yeah. So like no, don't go with candy and, you know, fruit juices and sodas. So like obvious rice and whole natural food, stick to easily digestible carbs, those are the two things. You can do workouts with them. Yeah, so like don't go with candy and you know, fruit juices and sodas, so like obvious. Rice and whole fruit. Rice, fruit, potato, and then use it

as a performance booster. So I'll know if I need to bump my carbs a little bit by my strength in the gym, or if I need to cut it down a little bit by my digestion or how I feel. And that's how I use carbs. And I love to his point, this is like, so when I'm moving somebody more intuitive, but we're still

kind of tracking some things and you're going to start messing with carbohydrates. If you pay attention to track, actually do this, especially when we're on a performance focus. Okay. So let's say, I don't know what time you lift. You lift in the middle of the day, morning, night, when do you lift? Super early, 5am, 5am. Okay.

So then we'll be looking at the nighttime. So at nighttime, play around with the amount of carbohydrates you allow yourself to have in that dinner and really challenge yourself. Sometimes go 30 to 50 grams, then try another one with like 100 to 150 grams. Like go in that and everything in that range and pay attention to how you feel when you go into that workout the next morning and allow that to steer how much, you know, how much rice or how much pasta or how much whatever you potatoes you eat the night before go into it. Don't think about how I look. Think about how I feel going into that workout and how you perform it in that

workout and allow that to dictate how much carbohydrates you have with that meal. Totally. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Thank you guys. Amazing. Even the channel. Thank you so much for having me really, really appreciate it. And love your advice. Love your content. Keep going. Awesome. All right. Thank you, man. Yeah, we'll see you. Thanks for calling from all the way from South Africa. That's all right. We'll see you the forum. the bookcase in the back. It's just based on that. If he does a bulk right, he's going to gain some serious muscle. I mean, from where he's come from, it'll blow his mind.

And then what'll happen, I've worked with people like this, is that I know you guys have too. It's metabolism will get so fast, he's like, that's going to be like crazy. That'll be the hardest part. That's why I wanted him in the forum because I know that what will happen if he starts lifting power lifts and start feeding himself, he's gonna get hungrier.

And as far as I want more and he's gonna build muscle. And nervous about that. Yeah, and he'll get like, all right. I was at 2000, now I'm eating 2800, this is way too much. And he'll start to freak out a little bit, but I did a great job and he's in a good place right now. And I think power lifts are perfect programs. So look forward to see what happens.

Next caller is Chris from Ohio. So Chris, how can we help you? Hey, what's going on fellas? How are you? Good man. What's happening? Oh, first I will apologize. Uh, I'm actually at a state conference.

So here's the music in the background. I'm sitting at a hotel and I just tried to sneak away somewhere No worries, but appreciate the opportunity to talk to you guys Just gonna jump right into it So I was actually caught off guard because of all the shows that I've watched Seems like some people have to wait quite a while before they're able to get on and chat with you I think I put I submitted this just a couple days ago Something worked out and I was

able to talk. So last year, I really got into the nutrition side of things. I've been a college athlete and kind of let my personal shape get out of whack. But I took control of my nutrition. a whack, but I took control of my nutrition. I dropped from 224 down to 197 as part of a challenge. And then since then, I've gotten up to 212, but I'm starting another challenge. Just for mental and physical challenge to see if I can get down to what some say stage lean, I'm kind of quirky in that manner. But being a career firefighter, something that has always kind of nagged at me is, with the 24-48 schedule, how does fleet play into it? How do I optimize growth after this cut phase with my 24-48 schedule?

Typically, I work out first thing in the morning by myself without a spotter, fasted. And so, you know, are there issues with that kind of setup? And also, is my doing too much volume because I work out usually two out of every three days, taking the day off that I come off of shift. And so just kind of wanting to pick your guys's brains a little bit. This is a fantastic opportunity. So I'm all ears and I got my notes ready. So explain the 24 48. So you work for 24 hours, then you're off for 48 hours. Is that correct? Correct. Yes. And on that 24 hours, it's just really hit or miss. If you get five to six runs a day, or we could have 20 runs a day.

If you get five to six runs a day or we could have 20 runs a day. Okay. And it's four days or five days a week? Are you lifting? I, I, it's just two out of every three days. So I usually lift the morning before my shift, the morning of my shift. And then the following morning or the following day I take off. You know, I think I, if you're modifying the intensity and the volume, I think that's not a bad approach at all.

Are you progressing? Are you seeing good? I mean, your pictures look great. Yeah, absolutely. As far as from shrank gains, I never really max out. So I just kind of go to a point of failure. Currently running a program that really emphasizes hypertrophy. So the big thing is pushing, finding that failure limit. And so I

try to do that with the weights that I have available. But again, the safety component comes into because I'm always working out at 4.35 o'clock in morning by myself and I don't want to over extend myself into the point of injury. Yeah, well, so stopping two reps short of failure, the data shows pretty clearly is probably enough. So you don't need to go, although short stints of training to failure can have some benefit, long term. Yeah, it doesn't really make a difference. And it's probably better not to for the most part. um, it's, you know, as far as are you training too much, you got to base it off of how you feel.

So if you feel good, you're getting good sleep, you seem to be getting stronger. You're progressing. You don't have weird cravings and hot, cold intolerances, low libido, that type of stuff. You're probably doing great. I like your approach of two on one off, taking that day off the day after work. Makes a lot of sense. And then the way I would judge the volume and frequency intensities based off of how I felt on those two days.

So if you had an exceptionally hard day of work and you took that day off and the following day you're supposed to work out, I would go real easy. Kind of go through the motions, kind of move the body. And then once I felt good, I'd push myself, but you're supposed to work out, I would go real easy. Kind of go through the motions, kind of move the body. And then once I felt good, I'd push myself, but you're going to have to listen to your body a little bit because your schedule is not typical. Like not only is it not typical, even, even your schedule can, can vary in terms of the intensity of your work. Like you just said, you could have four or five runs in a day versus 20.

I'm sure that they feel very different, right? You have a day where it's just nonstop. It probably- Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and so that's how I would judge the, or that's how I would dictate the intensity and the volume of my workouts would be based off of that. So if you're coming off a day where you had four runs

and it was like nothing, like, all right, let's go for it. But if you're coming off a day, you know, where it was like nonstop and you were pushing your body, don't let the cortisol fool you. You know what I mean? Don't work off of that nervous stress energy. Be like, you know what, that was rough. I'm going to go easy. I'm going to go easy on this workout and that'll give you better results. Yeah. At first glance, I would say it seems like too much volume, but if you're doing a good job of modifying intensity, then it's okay, you know, because it, because your weeks

probably do vary so much, which would just add the complexity of doing this, then it's okay, you know, because it because your weeks probably do vary so much, which would just add the complexity of doing this, right? It's not as straightforward as, hey, this is too much or not enough volume. It's like, you know, one week, it could be too much volume, then another week, it's, you know, just right. So, you know, if you feel confident that you've been doing a pretty good job of modifying that, I don't, I don't see a problem with that. I do think though, like a program, this is not a time in your life or at this point where I would probably be pushing these as great a benefits as you can get for hitting failures sometimes.

Like I just don't, I would love to see him run power lift. I'd love to see like a program like that where we're modifying the intensity he's not training to failure and it's not until the end, something along those lines like as far as a program right now. But if you're seeing gains and you, and you're, and you feel good, then I don't know how much I would also change or modify that. Okay.

That sounds great. I, it's a big thing. And I think we've kind of hit it on the head there is just, I've always been concerned anytime I find a program or have tried to put together a program I always have to modify it to work two on one off just due to our schedule. Yep. And so I And listening to some of your past podcast and YouTube videos Just I was really kind of concerned if I was doing too much as opposed to scaling back a little bit and then maybe still seeing the same results. Look for the signs. You want to look for the signs of doing too much. So yeah, stiffness, achiness, loss of performance, sleep disturbances, low libido,

cravings, hot, cold intolerances. But performance will be the biggest one. Like you go to the gym, you're like, man, I am not as strong nor do I have as much stamina as I normally do, then that'd be the case. But, you know, with the average, first off, nobody has perfect controls. Even the typical nine to five person doesn't have perfect controls, but in your case, it's even more,

there's even more variables. So in other words, in a perfect world, where all the controls are the same, well, then you would just follow the workout and you would apply the same intensity every single time you work out, but that's not how, that's not how things work. Your schedule is different. So you can't even follow a typical split that's designed for the average person. You have to modify it, but even the work that you do, like most jobs, you know,

except for first, first responders, people that works in emergency rooms, for example, I've trained a lot of clients in this case. Uh, one day can be vastly different from the next day. So you're going to have to modify your intensity and volume based off of that. Also, you also need to factor in that he's, okay. So, you know, when we started this conversation, you mentioned that we're, we're, we're heading towards just like, let's try and get stage lean, right? Get ripped type of process.

So we're going to be on a pretty, a pretty hard cut. So like I would tell my competitors when I was coaching them, like the, the real work has already been done for you. Like the way your, your muscles are going to look and like what the, the end result of this is actually already really been taken care of. At this point, it's just a matter of how much of that muscle you lose or don't lose because you're going in it. You've already, you're not going to make big muscle gains in this cut. That's just not going to happen. So at this point, it's literally just carving away

the body fat and revealing all your hard work that you've been doing for the previous, you know, months or years, right? So at that, with that in mind, you know, doing failure training and pushing the body to try and get gains, I think is less advantageous than yeah, modifying intensity, maintaining like sending a good signal, focusing on getting good rest, like you're, that's what's going to help you not lose muscle. What will help you lose muscle faster is overreaching, not eating enough, not getting good sleep. So you're always better off in this phase of your journey, because we're in this cut, is to like, I'm better off pulling back on

intensity and just going in there and touching the weights and letting my diet do most of the work here. Because this this at this point, the diet is what's going to really control how well you look at the end of this on how much muscle you lose or don't lose will be all that and the harder you push in a deficit like that, especially if other stressors are involved, the faster you're going to pair down and lose muscle. And so at this point, like if you're ever considering like, Oh, should I do an extra this or should I try and go to failure this set? If the if you even have that question that the answer is no, should I do an extra this or should I try and go to failure this set? If the, if you even have that question that the answer is no, don't do it. This is not worth it.

You're not going to gain a bunch of muscle from that extra set or that extra 10 pounds you put on the bar right now. You're just trying to maintain that muscle as you carve away the body fat. And that, and that, and the data on failure is pretty clear. Like in a short term, you know, applied properly, it could lead to great strength gains muscle, but for the most part, there's no difference except that it hammers the body more. So it actually tends to take away people's progress.

People that preach failure all the time, these fitness fanatic, you know, fitness influencer morons, A, don't look at the data, and B, don't, you know, that's what they do for a living. So, and they tend to, they tend to express their insecurities through their, their media. I mean, the truth is we have one program that uses failure and it alternates failure weeks. So you're not even training failure every single week. And it's one program. And I don't tell, and I tell people not to run it back to back. Every other program we do is you stop about two

or three reps short of failure. Every strength sport in the world, by the way, strength sports like powerlifting, Olympic lifting, they've got good workout programming. These workout programs that you find online for the most part are, you know, these dudes, oh, you just have to build the most hypertrophy, whatever. They're not time tested. Powerlifting programs, Olympic lifting programs, they were funded by governments and scientists and,

and they don't train to failure. Powerlifters don't train to failure until the day of the meet. lifters don't train to failure until the day of the meet. Olympic lifters never train to failure until the day of the meet. So it's so overrated. Can you use it as a tool? Yes, but it's so overrated. I almost always recommend people. Especially when you're playing with sleep and a caloric deficit too.

So the time to experiment with stuff like that is in a surplus, well rested, you know, go ahead, test your stuff like that. But like I said, you've done the hard work. The physique that you were going to, you know, come out with at the end of this challenge or present is actually already there. Like it's there. It's now it's like, can I preserve as much of this hard work I did while nice, just slowly carving away a body fat. And there's an art to that. There really is of just, and let the, the diet do the work, let the diet do the work. I'm trying to work off the fat. That's right. That's right. That's the mistake that like rookie competitors do that would get it, get you doing their first show,

thinking that they're going to outwork the ex competitor to get there. And it's like, no, that's one of the biggest mistakes. It's like, you already did the hard work. The hard work was building all that muscle. Now it's like this fine line of balancing stress, and also maintaining muscle while living in this deficit on this, you know, 612, however long cut you're going, you're going to go into. Can I ask just real quick, so this, this whole cut is going to May, and then moving forward, like I said, in my question, I don't really have any aspirations for getting on a stage. And so beyond this to actually gain

maybe a little bit more muscle is the only difference between the two then just calorie consumption, eating higher. That's right. And you can handle more volume and more intensity with higher calories. So in a cut, And you can handle more volume and more intensity. That's right. With higher calories. So in a cut, you can, your body can handle less. People tend to do the opposite.

That's what Adam's saying. Oh, I got to get cut. I'm going to deficit. So now I'm going to double my workouts. Like, whoa, wrong application. The opposite. When I work out less with less intensity, less volume when you're in a deficit. Once my, once my prep started, like once it was time for me to get ready for the,

the six weeks heading into the show or like that, I'm just touching weights. I'm going in and touching the weights and I'm, and I'm trying to move the weight that I was doing the previous week, knowing that I'm probably not going to be able to cause I'm going to get weaker. I'm in a deficit. I'm losing and I'm just trying to hang on to that, that muscle while I'm letting the food do all the cutting. That's, and the mistake that all these guys make that have a hard time in these

cuts is they try and push their body, thinking that the harder they get after it, the faster they get to this body percentage or the lower they're going to get body, and that's just not the body works. So you're sitting in opposite signal, the body is saying, you're not feeding me enough nutrients and now you're pushing me harder than what you were pushing me three, four weeks ago. Like it's going to revolt and it's not going to respond the way it's going to reduce this caloric requirements by reducing muscle and it's going to hold

on to body fat as a stress response. And it does this by making your hormones go to shit. Yep. So not a great approach. Yeah. Go in there, touch the weights. Let the diet. Sounds good.

Let the diet do the work. You got it, man. All right. Well, hey, I'm actually in Columbus. So I was thinking of stopping by. You guys are going to be a pro-gym on Friday. We're not now Yeah, it was canceled on us unfortunately, so we won't be there. Are you still going down to the Arnold? No

No, but I'd like to send you a program. I won't see you. Yeah, Chris I'd like to send you one of our programs though. Let me send you one of our program power lift. Yeah, I'm gonna send you Matt's power lift. Oh Fantastic, thanks. It's not needed, but I appreciate it. Thank you so much. You got it, man. Then we, that way you get some good workout programming. I didn't, you didn't say it out loud, but I see who's

programming you're following. Yeah. I got you. We held back. We got you, dude. All right, Chris. Well, thank you. Appreciate it.

Take it easy, man. That means you got the right approach. I liked what he said about the two on one off, you know, the day after his best way to handle that schedule. Yeah. And it's the intensity. You just got to modify the intensity. I mean, you can theoretically work out every day.

If you modify the intensity, uh, well enough, you know what I mean? That's where people tend to, you can. The thing I would be really cautious of the reason why I didn't like it that much is because I know that he's going into a deficit for a cut. That's a, that's a big, so if you're going in that way and you're also running a program that is encouraging failure training, yeah, that's going to be rough. It's, you're really rolling. Well, that's the, you're not modifying the intensity then if you're always going to fail.

Exactly. Right. Right. And at this point, there's no reason to do it. There's no reason to train to failure at this point. You've done the hard work. You're not going to build any muscle right now. If you're a natural athlete and you are cutting for getting ripped like a bodybuilding show, even if you're not going to build any muscle right now. If you're a natural athlete and you are cutting for getting ripped like a bodybuilding show, even if you're not going to get on stage, but you're doing that, you're training with that thought process, then at this point it's touch the weights, let the diet do the work. Any more that you do in the training aspect is only going to shoot yourself

on the foot. 100%. Look, we have a free hard gainer guide. If you're a hard gainer, if you have a tough time building muscle, go download our hard gainer guide. It's free. It'll help you out. You can find it at mine pump free.com. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram, I'm mine pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at mine pump to Stefano and Adam is on Instagram at mine pump. Adam. Thank you for listening to mine pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

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