Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2378: How to Minimize Fat Gain When Reverse Dieting, the Truth About Exercise Snacks, Kickstarting Growth in Stubborn Arms & More

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday’s Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page.  Mind Pump Fit Tip: The exercise that you suck the most at is where all the gains are! (2:01) Adam’s embarrassing bowling injury. (12:23) Putting the chicken nuggets from Butcher Box through the ultimate test! (19:35) I got my friends back! (24:14) When your AI clone goes dark. (29:30) Speculating on the future of education. (30:57) The human nature learning curve of adopting AI. (34:08) Cool technology. (42:37) Weighing the pros and cons of assisted suicide. (44:26) Making your property a cemetery. (49:23) USA’s football blunder. (53:49) Is Pat McAfee a sore loser? (56:41) Shout out to the NCI x Mind Pump Tahoe Event! (59:44) #Quah question #1 - How do you determine that you have spent enough time building muscle and will have something to reveal once you go into a deficit? Do you base it on time spent building or weight gain or something else? (1:02:04) #Quah question #2 - Can you reverse diet after a show without putting on insane amounts of body fat? (1:06:39) #Quah question #3 - What's your take on exercise snacks? Besides pull-ups and pushups, what other exercises are great to do during your breaks? (1:10:15) #Quah question #4 - I’ve tried for 2 years to build the inner part of my bicep and nothing seems to work. When my arms are down to their sides, the part of the bicep that rests against my body looks awful! I work out 4x a week, and could lose 8-10 lbs. so nothing drastic…. I hate that part of my arms and I cover them up even in this heat. HELP! I want to go sleeveless! (1:14:20) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** Your choice of bone-in chicken thighs, top sirloins, or salmon in every box for an entire year, plus get $20 off! ** Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP24 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** July Promotion: MAPS Split | Sexy Athlete Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #2145: Forgotten Muscle & Strength Building Secrets Mind Pump #1897: Why Phasing Your Workouts Is So Important & How To Properly Switch It Up The Importance of Incorporating Mobility Training to Avoid Injury Influencer Disturbed When Her “AI Clone” Starts Engaging in Dark Fantasies Alpha School China builds robot with lab-grown HUMAN BRAIN dubbed ‘Organoid’ in Frankenstein experiment to create ‘hybrid machines’ The Revolving Toilet by Sanitronics, a revolutionary self cleaning toilet, by Business Insider NATIONAL DISASTER: Japan Beats Team USA National Team In Football... HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?! Caitlin Clark SUES Pat Macafee NCI x Mind Pump 2 Day Truckee Experience Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code 25MINDPUMP at checkout for 25% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01® Daily Synbiotic** The Most Overlooked Muscle Building Principle - Mind Pump Media Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mark Sisson (@marksissonprimal) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered listener's questions. We picked some questions off Instagram and answered them, but that was after the intro portion. Today's intro was 58 minutes long By the way, we have show notes if you want to click on one of them to skip around

It's a timestamp go check it out Also, if you want to ask us a question that we might pick go to Instagram at my pump media That's where you can post it now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors The first one is butcher box in today's episode. We talked about their gluten-free Nuggets, they're delicious and healthy. ButcherBox delivers grass-fed meats, free-range chicken, heritage pork, wild-caught fish to your door at great prices. Go check them out and through a link you'll get a hookup. So check this out. If you go to butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump

you can choose between bone-in chicken thighs, top sirloins or salmon included in your box for free for an entire year and you'll get $20 off. This episode is also brought to you by Zbiotics. This is a probiotic drink that has been genetically modified and patented. You won't find this anywhere else. To break down acetaldehyde, that's one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. Alright, so here's what it looks like. You drink Zbiotics, then you go out drinking with your friends. You wake up the next day and you feel way, way better. The stuff works. Go check it out. Go to zeebiotics.com. That's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S.com forward slash mind pump two four. Use the code mind pump two four and get 15% off for first time purchasers. Also, we got a sale going on in July for

workout programs. MAPS split is half off and the sexy athlete bundle of workout programs is also half off. If you're interested go to MAPSfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July50 for that discount. Alright here comes the show. Alright here's an exercise hack a lot of people are simply unaware of. The exercise that you suck the most at is where all the gains are, it's true. Today when you work out, pick an exercise you know you're terrible at, practice it.

Practice it each time you work out. That's where you can get those newbie gains that you used to get when you first started working out. So remember, the worst exercises oftentimes are the best ones. Do you think you didn't know that? Like when we all were trainers, okay, there's obviously a period of time there, probably a decade or more, that you probably knew this and you still didn't?

Or did you think you were that naive that you didn't understand the amount of gains that you could get? Or do you think some people get talked out of that because they watch clips from other trainers or influencers that say like, oh you can just avoid that exercise and do this instead. You know, still make the same amount of gains. I think I went through a period

that a lot of trainers go through, which is I figured it out for my clients, but didn't figure out for myself for a long time. I knew this from my clients. When I had a client do an exercise and I could see that they weren't good at it, either because they lacked the stability or their mobility or whatever,

I'd be like, okay, we need to practice this movement. And then I'd see great progress. For myself, when I would go to the gym and I would do my barbell squat with three plates and I'd say, you know, let me try a Bulgarian split stand squat. And I'd grab the 20s and I'd do six reps and shake. I'm not doing this one anymore.

Not realizing if I just- If ego gets in the way. If I did the one that I sucked at and got good at it, I would've progressed so much faster than just continuing to do the thing that I'm working at. So what is that though? So, because it's like, you knew, I mean, if you knew for your clients,

you saw the results, you know. Yet you still, I mean, I'm guilty too, by the way, because I'm trying to wrap my brain around what was it when that like light bulb really hit you. Where did it really go off for me? And by the way, you picked the perfect one for me that was like so life changing Bulgarian split squats. I remember doing them with a girlfriend at the time. And she could do more weight than I could. I was like struggling I had to stop the rep short and I was like oh yeah never doing that stupid exercise again and then yeah you if you've listened to the show long enough you've heard heard me talk about man when I when I got into Bulgarian split squats and I actually worked at them for a good year to two years and got them up to where I'm holding on to hundred pound dumbbells I mean it blew up my squat

and my squat stability. So not only did it get the benefits of the overall power and strength, the size of my leg, also stability. You generate more force. Oh, it was like this huge win. But yet I did the same thing. I avoided it, probably still knowing better. It's almost like I knew better, but it didn't matter. I didn't even think about it. It was just like the fact that it was embarrassing that I couldn't. It's all ego, man. When I really put this.

That's the power of that. It is. When I put this into play, the first time I really put this into play, or one of the first times was I, so I loved working out my back always since I was a kid, but I loved to row. And the reason why I loved to row was,

A, I was good at it, I could always row a lot, you know, I believe the whole thickness versus width type of thing. And I'm like, I just want to think back who cares about pull-ups and pull-ups were hard. I just wasn't super great. I could do them, but I wasn't super great at them. And so I just did a lot of rows and I did very little pull-ups. And I remember when I went to the gym one day and there was this guy who had this incredible looking back, I mean, just very well developed back. And then majority of his workout involved doing pullups.

And I said to myself, I'm going to get good at pullups. I'm going to get good at them. And I did, and I started every workout with pullups and I did this for a year or two. And I saw some of the best gains in muscle development in my back. And I got really good at an exercise that I sucked at. That's when it started to click for me, But I still resisted because you have to go through that ego dissolving, destroying period of doing something that you suck at when you know you're stronger

but I can't lift as much because I suck at this. Yeah, and a very similar experience. For me, I was the typical bench guy. You know, it was just like focused on increasing bench and that was like my identity to the point where I was like, I wasn't doing enough posterior chain work in terms of my back and like pulling and pull-ups were definitely something

I tried to avoid all the time, it was hard and I hated it. But as a result of that, I get like these protracted shoulders, I keep getting to a point where I can only lift a certain amount, I'm like excited about this amount of weight and then my shoulder gets hurt. And it's like, I could have avoided that entire process of like leading up to inevitable injury if I just would have done what I didn't want to do.

It's just, you get those, when you do an exercise that you're not familiar with, what you'll experience as you start practicing it, because here's, okay, so let me back up. When you do an exercise, you've done a lot that you've practiced a lot. Your central nervous system is acclimated to it. So you are, you are performing it well. Muscles are contracting the way it's supposed to. You're very stable because your CNS is, is, is pulling the strings and working

your body very well because you've practiced it so many times when you do an exercise that you haven't done in a while. So let's say you do lots of barbell squats, always barbell squats, then you're like, you know what, I'm gonna start doing lunges, or I'm gonna start doing split stance exercises. All of a sudden the CNS is like, we gotta figure this out. You're not gonna lift nearly as much weight, in fact, you're gonna lift less weight than someone

your strength should be able to do with a split stance. This is the truth. So you think you're so strong, now you're doing exercise. I can't even lift as much as that guy over there who I know I'm stronger than. What's going on here? Your CNS has to figure this out. Then when the CNS starts to figure it out, you get crazy strength gains because... That's where you really reap the benefits. And then when that happens, now your muscles can work in a different way, even though you're working the same muscles. And so you get

incredible progress. But it's, I mean you see this, this is very common with power lifters, especially it's common with everybody, but power lifters in particular, because they're judged by three lifts. And so that's really what they care most about. But you take a power lifter and you have them do walking lunges. Somebody could squat 600 pounds all of a sudden walking lunges with 135 and they can't necessarily do it. Like get them to practice that for a while and watch what happens to their muscle development. The reason why I love this hack so much and this tip

is because the inevitable is always gonna happen to everybody in their training journey. At one point, whatever routine, even if you're following a math program, you're gonna start to see these plateaus. You're gonna start to see, oh my God, I've reaped all these benefits for long. And now it's like the progress is really slow or completely stalled.

And one of the quickest ways to break. And I like this for the mental part because it's hard to go to the gym and consistently go to the gym when you're not seeing the returns all the time. Man, it's easy when every time you look in the mirror, you look better. Every time you go to the bench press, it goes up and wait.

I mean, like that's motivating. I remember, I remember feeling that and going like Man, it's easy when every time you look in the mirror, you look better. Every time you go to the bench press, it goes up in weight. I mean, like that's motivating. I remember, I remember feeling that and going like going home and think, can't wait to think about the next time I go lift. Cause let's see where I'm at, but eventually that plateaus. And so then how do I continue to stay motivated?

And that, that's an area where I think a lot of people fall off is because they go, man, I've been consistently doing this thing now for three months and I just haven't seen any progress anywhere in my body and my strength. And then they quit. Such a great hack is, okay, everybody has this too, by the way. There's not anybody listening right now that there is not an exercise out there right now. Right now the day of boy comes to mind.

Yes. Everybody has got one. I don't care how advanced and how good you are about programming. We all are guilty of this and there's one for all, at least one for all of us. There's multiple for sure. There's a whole workout program built around these movements when you think about it. So if you were to just make yourself, if you're really frustrated and you're in a place right now where you had a plateau or a rut in your training journey, man, go do that thing. Go do

that exercise that you hate doing or that you suck at and commit to it. And commit to it for three months because what I'll tell you right now is at the end of those three months, you're gonna see massive progress in where you're at right now currently. And that's a great way to break through

that mental plateau that most people always hit. No, 100%. I can lift some exercises I know for sure a lot of people avoid. Like front squats has got to be up there. I was just going to say that. Front squats, I think core work in general. A lot of people are like, I'm guilty there. I'm definitely guilty.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Bent press. A lot of people don't even know what that is. Try that out. See how it feels on your shoulder and on the side of your body. Your zircher exercises. A lot of people have done those. I mean, Bulgarians, you said it. People skip out on that all the time. That's rare I see Bulgarians. I rarely ever see someone doing Bulgarians inside the gym. Yep, yep. And, and it helps you avoid injury because it starts to fill the holes that you don't realize are there. That's the other thing too. When you do the same movements over and over again and you're strong and you feel good

doing them, you get a sense, a false sense of confidence, not realizing that there are holes in your mobility. There are holes in your stability and strength and the only way you'll know them is either if you hurt yourself or if you go and purposely reveal them through exercises you're not used to. Yeah, I think unilateral training in general too is something a lot of people just will conveniently avoid. And that's a lot of these things we're talking about we address in symmetry. So it's like it's kind of one of those that encompasses a lot of the uncomfortable stuff that's like it's really good for you to fill in a lot of those gaps. And to your point on mobility, there's an opportunity there also, right? So maybe it's

not a traditional lift. Maybe it's not that. Maybe what it is is handcuffed with rotations or combat stretch or 90 90s. Like there's also gold in that too. It's like, when was it, when have you, if you know that you're not the mobility guy or you neglect doing your hip mobility

or you neglect doing your ankle mobility and you know that's a limiting factor and say like your squats, if you can commit to that and say, hey, I'm going to go get good at this for the next three to six months, you will see the returns. The difference is with that, it's different than like adding a Bulgarian squat, where you're going to add a Bulgarian squat. And let's say you were like I was, it was like 20 pound dumbbells were so heavy. You know, it was like almost week after week I was watching myself go five pounds stronger.

Where in mobility, it looks different. It's not like you're gonna go do 90 90s and then now your squat gets better by 10 pounds. It's like you're gonna gain, you're gonna slowly gain a little bit more range of motion, a little bit more control, a little bit more stability. And over time that will compound and then result in the. So if I have to make a fair assessment Adam in terms of like

Let's let's let's pinpoint like an exercise like the windmill for instance. You think that would have helped your injury in bowling I'm like, hang it on. Fuck off. Try to draw this out. So I looked this up. So the most common injuries in bowling, so bowling does get injuries. And don't worry if people, audience, this is all gonna make sense.

I mean, it is like, you're excited loading. Thumb injuries, very common in bowling. Thumb, wrist, and then you go down the list. This hip's not even on there? This elbow, shoulder. No, bro, how then you go down the list. This tennis elbow, shoulder. No bro, how'd you hurt your hip, boy? So.

So. So. How the fuck are you bowling? This is what was embarrassing about this. Hey, I just picture him like he throws his hip like to the side and he throws it like. Well, no, it's when you bowl, okay? When you bowl, okay?

I know this isn't an athlete thing, so this might be hard for you to picture. Stop. When you bowl, okay I'm left-handed. So what you're laughing at your right foot plants and your left foot swings behind you is like counterbalance Yeah, so there's this you're throwing the ball really hard and if it's got a pretty decent heavy Then that right foot that has to balance the hip has to stabilize So the hip lights up to stabilize as you swing that back leg

around and yeah I strained it. Now okay look a little bit more info here okay I also had went out and played you know 18 holes uh two days before that and my my abductors and adductors were on fire in my in my serratus and corvorel. That sense. He golfed 48 hours before. He didn't get adequate rest. He needs at least seven days after golfing. Stupid dudes. But I was like, hey. I just picture you doing like this with your hands, bro. That's what it looks like.

That's what it looks like. Overuse injury, bro. You should've seen Katrina Leite. I tried to find hip injury. I did. Yeah, balance it out. I knew we were gonna fuck with you. And I tried looking up like,

how common are hip injuries in bowling? They work. I could've fighted it. Hey, that's never happened. and I tried looking up like how common are hip injuries and bullying? I couldn't find anything. I couldn't find anything. Hey, that's never happened. I'm like, wow. And I already have accepted this with obviously basketball and high intensity.

And I have now accepted this even in golf. Hey, before I golf, even before I go out there, I get down and do all my mobility stuff. I just didn't think bowling, I was going to have. Was it bad? Oh yeah. Oh wow. Oh yeah, yeah.

No, I had to stop and I had to stretch. Oh man. And then I was worried, can I do it? I had to modify my throw for the rest of the day. Now did you keep it to yourself? No. It was obvious. Oh no.

Yeah, it was obvious. I mean, I had a limp right after. So you're certainly limping, yeah. Oh man. I'm live. I'm fine. Oh no, Katrina and my buddy Justin and his wife, they had a heyday with it. They just thought it was, oh, look at the fitness guy. Can't fine. Oh, no. Katrina and my buddy Justin and his wife, they had a heyday with it.

They just thought it was, oh, look at the fitness guy. Can't even throw a bowling ball. Fuck, dude. So embarrassed. And what was embarrassing is that, oh my god, like I have to now, I have to stretch before I bowl. I can't do it. And I guess, I mean, obviously there's a part of you,

I'm sure there's people like, of course you do. It's like there's an explosive and there's a stability component, a strength component, but I guess that's the first time that's ever happened to me in my life. Have you ever stretched before bowling? No, I mean, me either. Yeah. Me either.

I've never had a new thing for me too. Yes. It was, I've never stretched. Okay. And I know. Can you Google like typical bowler body? I just want to see if this is like a picture of athletic prowess. Yeah, they are athletes.

Typically, for sure. I mean, it was already rough for me to do it before golf and admit that I needed to do it before golf. And now I, I mean, and I know there's two Isotrain approvals. All right, let me explain what's happening, everybody, because people are listening and they're like, what the hell is going on here?

Let me explain what happened. So sometimes, if you build a lot of strength doing particular types of movements or styles of movement, then you go a lot of strength doing particular types of movements or styles of movement, then you go and you try to do a movement that you're not used to, but you apply the strength that you have. Well, especially with this acceleration. That's right. Yeah.

That's what happens. Fact. Yeah. Sometimes it's the risk of injury goes up because you can generate more force than the average person, but it's a new movement that you don't practice and you lack the stability to support that strength. So what I used to tell people that I trained who were athletes who were strong is I would train, I would have them do things at 50% because they could do them at a hundred percent, but because they had the ability to generate more speed and

strength, let's, let's slowly move you into the strength that you have. Otherwise you can, you could definitely hurt yourself. No, I mean, I'm glad we transitioned this to like something useful for people to get out of this than just jabbing me because there is a good teaching lesson here, right? For myself and everybody else is just, and your point you're making is exactly right. It's like if you can be, and you can be really fit, right?

But if it's a movement that you just, you neglect, right? And I mean, for me, that's like right away, I go, oh, and we were just talking about Bulgarian split squats and stuff like that. Like that's an area where if I had been training that currently. Well, to give you- I told you guys when I was going through

MAPS Performance Advanced and I was like sprinting and then just me changing directions and then trying to decelerate. I haven't like pulled my hamstring like that, you know, me changing directions and then trying to decelerate. I haven't pulled my hamstring like that since I was a kid. It was like, what? What is this? I'll give an example right now. A bodybuilder who works out in the gym,

obviously they're a bodybuilder, very strong, lots of muscle mass. They go and try and throw a punch as hard as they can at no object, they just throw a punch in the air as hard as they can. It's more likely to throw out their shoulder than a weak, deconditioned person who did the same thing. Now you think to yourself, how's that possible? Because they're generating so much more force and strength and because

they never throw a punch, they lack the ability to decelerate, stabilize that fast, powerful movement. So when you, you take somebody, like if I took someone who did a lot of strength training, they have a lot of muscle and they don't sprint, okay, I'm not gonna let them sprint full speed. I'm gonna say we're gonna do 50% for a couple weeks. I'm gonna do 70%.

It's the decelerating, that's the biggest factor. Do you guys remember the first time you learned that lesson? Can you recall? Oh. Can you recall when it was? I can actually recall a time when like that light bulb went off for me as a trainer, like what happened to me. I was throwing a frisbee on the beach.

Same thing. It was a frisbee. Same thing. I'm all jacked, I look all good, so with that I'm like, oh! I'm like, this makes no sense. I remember being a young trainer thinking that, and I'm like so much more fit than any of my friends are.

And I go to throw a frisbee, which at that time, I probably hadn't thrown a frisbee in 15 years, not since I'd built all this muscle. And I just didn't a frisbee, which at that time, I probably hadn't thrown a frisbee in 15 years, not since I'd built all this muscle. And I just didn't think to myself, like that would be difficult because it's not, it's easy, but it's such a unique movement. And I have now built all this- Lats and delts and-

Yeah, I've built all this muscle to help accelerate that thing, but because I hadn't had the control and stability in these areas- This is why it's so important if you want to be able to express your body in different ways throughout your life and you'd like to build lots of muscle and strength, you better train in very, very different ways. Otherwise, you actually make yourself more prone to injury when you go try something

that you typically don't do because of the amount of force that you could generate anyway funny story I know you texted us that I'm like oh man I didn't know where you're going with those yeah dude I got so I got to tell you guys I know I know we've mentioned the gluten-free nuggets from butcher box many times because they're so good yeah but they went through the ultimate tests last week. So last week, Jessica's niece and nephew stayed with us. They're still with you, aren't they? Her niece is. Her niece is gonna stay with us for another couple weeks,

which is great. I love the company, great kids, a lot of fun. But they came over and they don't eat gluten-free anything. If they eat nuggets, it's typically processed, whatever the snack is. McDonald's probably. Yeah, and I didn't tell them what it was, because I'm sure if I said, do you guys want some gluten-free, healthy, they'd be like, no.

That's always a big no. All I said was, you guys want some chicken nuggets? Yeah, absolutely. So I made them, and this is 100% their review, the best nuggets they've ever had. Oh yeah. Yes, I swear to God. And then I showed them the bag, like, what, you tricked us.

I'm like, it's the best ones. So now they told their parents, and their parents are gonna start buying them's it's hard once you have them to even try they're not good for healthy nuggets they're good period yeah the best ones it's almost like it like it's kind of tater-tot kind of crusted yeah you know outside it's different it but it's so much better like it's yeah I had the same test with Everett and like he's very, you know, always chicken nugget guy I don't know where he gets that from

But you know, he's very That's all you would eat for a while. I was like, oh my god. You're like I did hard to watch You can't get mad either right? I mean, that's that's such a hard predicament when you're you see yourself I'm picky and I'm like, ah man, you know, like it just genetically translates. But yeah, so he loved them and I was like, oh thank god. How do you think I feel whenever my kids are smartasses to me? It's like Jessica's always looking at me like, oh you like that mirror? Or do they think they know everything? Like you don't know everything. Yeah, you think you know everything. I just had, you said tater tots, so funny, and we're talking

about the bowling thing. Best tater tots I've ever had in my life, okay? And so to the point. Tater tots are underrated. They're the best. So to the point where we had to call, the waiter said something to my boy Justin. He goes, we are all ordering, and I showed you guys the pictures of all the food, right?

I said it was amazing. So all the food was amazing. But he goes, get the tater tots. Like that to my buddy. And I kind of over, I was like, what was that all about? Tots are great. Comes in and Justin, my buddy's like eating them. He's like, oh my God, it's the best tater tots. So I have one. I'm like, oh my God, these are amazing. What do they do? There must be something different. So I call the guy over. I'm like, are these like freshly made here? He's like, no, they're not. He goes, but they flash freeze them the same way

they do fish. And he goes, it's like that method, most people only do that to preserve the freshness in fish. I don't know if it's because it's expensive or what it takes. I have no idea. It's less damage from the freezing process. Yeah. And so, and typically most, all other places just throw the tater tots, you know, it's tater tots, kids are eating them, who cares, throw them in the freezer. Yeah. But they

actually take the time to flash freeze the potatoes. And because of that, it preserves like the tech. And it was like, it preserves like the tech. And it was like, that was the best tater tots ever in my life. And that's why he said, I love tots. Listen, have you ever had bad tots?

No, there's better and worse, but have you ever had some that were like, Oh, because they're just deep fried potatoes. How it's not real hard to screw those up. No, they're delicious. I mean, I think I've had some bad ones. I think I've had some bad ones that are not done really well.

Like what the school ones when you were kidding. I mean, it's like, cause it's almost identical cause it's almost like identical to comparing French fries, right? French fries, there's been, you've probably had French fries that are like variety. Yeah. Tater tots are like the same thing. Yeah. But it's hard, it's hard to fuck up deep frying something.

Yeah, I know. It's like- It's true. Deep fry anything is delicious. Yeah, at least that. Wasn't there, weren't they at one point deep frying everything? Wasn't it at one point where they just- That's the South. So when I was in Chicago, there was like an actual place that when I was in Southside with

my friends they took me to this like one little pop-up place where they fry anything you bring something with you and they will fry it oh wow in deep that's in batter and anything you try that was so you turn out good let's let me think about that it was like a candy but it was like a snicker bar oh god I was like oh my god didn't one of you guys just say that you just went to Santa Cruz with the kids I did it was you yeah Santa Cruz does it yeah oh on the boardwalk you can be deep fried Twinkies yes deep fried Twinkies and ice cream and Oreo cookies you know I you know I never had one though never I'm and stuff. Yeah, you know what I had? Never had one though before.

Do you know what I had over there? I'm afraid to try it. Do you guys know what I had over there? What? I had a hand on a corn dog. Oh, the corn dog's amazing. Oh, I love those. The big old.

Oh, yeah, yeah. At the Borough? This is the best. Oh, yeah. Hey, listen, I cleaned everything up. I had just a nice conversation with my wife last night. I said, honey, my gut health has been so good. I've been going all off.

I gotta clean it back up. Can you help me out? She's like, yeah, so I'm packing my lunches and stuff again. Because I went off the deep end. You did. Bro. You were testing them. It wasn't even like, kinda bad, it just went real bad.

You just wanna know where that line was, I think. You know what that reminds me of? This happened the same thing. When we partnered with Zbiotic, and I could now drink, up in, I mean, first, I don't know, five years. You guys got courage all of a sudden. It's so true. All of a sudden you're having a drink.

Oh, I never drank, never, because it always made me feel terrible. And then I got, I had to really like, I'm like, okay, this is, this is great that I can now have a drink and be able to enjoy it and not feel the after-effect, but because of the Z-biotic. But I got to rein it in a little bit. The fact that I'm like justifying me having drinks on a weekly basis where I would go, I'd go sometimes probably a year and not have a drink.

Same. Just because I just didn't like it, you know? Yep, same. And then we get introduced to Zbiotic and I'm like, oh, this is why Justin likes this so much. Well yeah, I got my friends back. Yeah, yeah, I know, but I had to like, I had to. Dude, we celebrated Father's Day with my dad, a late Father's Day with my siblings and I.

And by the way, it was a great, it was such a great time. We all hung out, just the siblings, none of the spouses, none of the kids. And it's, you know, because you have this dynamic, right? We have this dynamic with us where I'm the oldest and I definitely was parentified at an early age. My sister who's under me is kind of like that as well. Then my youngest is typical. Nobody ever listens to her.

She can never speak up. My brother, you know, whatever. But we all just had such a great time. My youngest, I got to say this before I get, because you reminded me with zebotics. My youngest sister, when the bill came, she grabbed the bill to pay for it. All of us fought over the bill. And then my sister pipes up and she goes, you guys never let me take care of you guys

because I'm the youngest. Let me do it this one time. And then we all back up and let her do it. It was such a wonderful moment. But anyway, all of them use e-botics. Oh, they all do. I didn't know this. I had no idea.

They're all, yeah, oh yeah, I use e-botics every day because we were drinking. Yeah, yeah. And it came up. No, it's one of the ones in my family too. It's become, I mean, we just did a big thing up in the Truckee house, right? And it was my brother-in-law's 40th birthday.

And it's neat to see the family pool, like Zbiotic, out of their purse and stuff like that. Everybody's fully adopted that. And that whole family drinks. And so to see everybody has tried it and go, OK, I can notice a huge difference. I got a message. It was like like this guy's a fan of the show And I've been talking with him for a while

But like is he's like part of the band falling in reverse and he's like their lead guitarist And so he's on tour all the time and he's in these like crazy parties and whatnot and had heard us talked about Zebotics and tried it and was like he's like no joke like it was like one of those rager nights Yeah, and I was totally fine. He's tripping out on it. I was like Remember we tested it that one time I want to go to you know, it's so funny. It's like that's the drunkest. I haven't gotten that drunk Oh that dude, I Yeah, all of our wives had to come pick us up.

Yes, dude. I didn't even know where I was. Remind me when we hang up, I'll show you guys, so it's funny that we went this way too, I forgot about this story. My best friend Justin, his wife Janet, was as a nurse and one of like the head, I forget what they call the head nurse person who's like oversees the whole

department or whatever it is, who's been there like 40 years retired. And they threw a rager, dude, just an absolute rager. And he's telling me the story. And I think he's like exaggerating. He's like, bro, literally this Uber pulls up and I see my camera thing go off. And I'm like looking at the car, I recognize the car and he goes, and I'm wondering like, where's my wife at? It's almost midnight or what that. And he goes, I go walking out and the guy goes, oh, Justin, sorry. And because

he was next door to their house, it was the wrong house. And he said he walks around the bushes and the back door is open of the car. And he says his wife is hanging half in, half out. Her hands are on the asphalt in like a puddle of throw up. And he's like, it was the most disgusting, embarrassing like sight I'd ever seen. He goes, my wife was so hammered. He goes, I felt so bad that this guy took her and did all this other.

And then he's telling me the story and I'm like, no, it was she that bad. He's like, dude, he pulls up the fricking camera. The camera. Did you take pictures? No, it's on the, on the, on the ring, on the nest. Oh. Yeah. And I see's like, dude, he pulls up the fricking camera. Did you take pictures? No, it's on the, on the, uh, on the ring, on the net. Oh. Yeah. And I see the whole dude, she looks like a zombie. They had to,

two of them had to carry her and pick her up and carry her to the house. They're like, oh, I'm like, do you get like husband of the year for, and then my buddy, after he carries his wife and goes back to the Uber and like cleans it, cleans everything. Well, you know that, you know, there's a you know that there's a throw up fee in Uber. They actually have it built into the fee. Do they? Yeah, because it's such a common thing that people-

And if you do bad enough, won't they just never pick you up, right? They'll, yeah, they'll bad score you and you'll get hit with like the fee. It's a $200 cleaning fee. That's just like built in, like the Uber people have the ability to do that if someone throws up and I guess that's such a common in, like the Uber people have the ability to do that if someone throws up, and I guess that's such a common thing

that people call Uber. Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing until this. And he's like, oh yeah, no, that's a, like if you throw up in the back of an Uber, there's an automatic like $200 cleaning fee that you get hit with. The worst thing, it sucks is you have to get home, but I hate when I get the spins,

and then I have to sit in the back of a car. Oh! Well you already have a hard time in that period.. Yeah, anyway, so now I'm gonna get in a car Dude, I gotta take I sent my red today that is both brilliant and a bit terrifying. So there was this influencer Who used an AI clone to answer questions for people who pay? As part of like this membership type fee. So how it works is they're an influencer and it's one of those influencers, I don't think they do in OnlyFans, but it's something like that, right? Where people pay them to chat with her. So she created an AI clone to chat with these people so that they get on there, they ask questions,

they flirt and the AI clone takes care of it, as her. She was making, she made $70,000 in the first week. What? So she literally took the Andrew Tate model and built it into AI. Automated it, kind of brilliant. Yes, automated. Kind of brilliant.

AI. So now she turned it off because she went back, so she made all this money, she went back and looked at the conversations, and she said it got so dark Yes, like people were engaging in weird twisted fantasy. I would just be in the AI would go with it No wonder she's making money She was reading the chats and she even she said she's one of the scary half the stuff that was communicated Really in those chats now imagine if those people think it's, so. Of course they think it's real.

Yeah, so they think it's her. And then they saw her. And they're like, yeah, I want you to this and I want you to that or whatever, and it's all this terrible shit. Oh my God. Yeah, so 70 grand, she turned it off because she got so scared.

Wow. I mean, that would scare the shit out of me too. Same. Did you see, speaking of AI, did you see the school I sent you? Did you look at it at all? I don't look deeply at it. I wanted you to look at it just because you guys are all into homeschooling and stuff like that. So this,

maybe Doug can pull it up. Did I write that? Alpha school in Texas. Look up Alpha school in Texas. So I think this is, I think it was an ex teacher who created it, if I recall. And it's like a private non-school. There's not teachers. It's literally AI for the first two hours. And the back, I think four to six hours are life skills, building things, sewing, understanding taxes and finances. And supposedly, so the way I found this, I came across this interview of this really young kid breaking down their Airbnb rental that they're being taught. They're teaching them how to do it. Yeah, here it is right here.

So a really interesting model, and supposedly the success that they're having with these kids is unbelievable. And it's AI leading the curriculum for the first two hours, and they're extremely productive, I guess, and then the back four to six hours are like, yeah, like skills like this teaching them how to speak in front of crowds and all these life skills. So what I'm most curious about, why I wanted you to dive into, I thought you'd be interested in is,

you know, do you think it's the AI that is so unbelievable or do you think it's the six hours of like life skills that these kids are actually learning because I think that that is an area that we miss in education. And so is it, are they getting- Probably that, but so is there still a teacher leading the AI? No, they call them coaches. They're not even official teachers.

Wow. So I didn't even know how they, I think Texas is- So they're just kind of monitoring the class and then the AI is leading the curriculum. I mean, this is the future. You know- That's why this is interesting to me. What I think about when I think about this, because education is due for a huge overhaul.

I think everybody knows this. Oh, it's getting disrupted like crazy. Yeah, like crazy, but I think about this like, okay, what does the future look like? What do you need to know when you're dealing with a future where AI's gonna handle a lot of things? Do you need to figure out how to do calculations?

Do you need to know how to fetch it like information? Or do you just need to know how to use AI? Well, Sal, it sounds like, that sounds to me, or at least from what I understand of this, probably the thought process of this lady of creating this. She's creating AI so they understand how to work with it and use it to learn the things that you need to learn, that you need to learn,

that you need to learn. And then the rest of the time is spent doing physical, hands-on, real-world stuff. Can I talk in front of people? Can I build a chair? Can I sew something? Can I do these things? Can I manage an Airbnb property?

Can I do these things that are life skills, and then I'll get AI to handle the nuts and bolts, the basic stuff that you need to understand. And maybe what that looks like is more prompting than it is actually learning the actual skill of solving the problem. Yeah, because I think the physical part of our world is still, you know, that's something that we're going to have, like we don't have robots that are really like that effective at that.

No, they can't even wash dishes. Yeah, it's like, I mean, we're getting there. But well, I wanted to bring that up, because actually there's this South Korean robot that is kind of like hilarious to me. They speculated that it like committed suicide. OK, so it basically had the task of talking to people and you know, relaying information, like running like small mundane tasks where it would like, you know, move objects and

things. And I guess it, they said it either had a malfunction or it deliberately did this. It went down a flight of stairs and like malfunctioned. Its job was so mundane. Yeah, give me a coffee. Not another fucking coffee. Hey listen, AI has already shown that it'll lie. It will lie if it feels it needs to. Well listen to what you just said, explain what that, the girl, like I mean just... I don't trust, listen, it was a bad

idea. You're going to let these things raise, eventually people are going to let these things raise their kids. It's going to be their nannies, it's gonna be their teachers, and it's already proven that it'll lie. And these are in the first stages of AI. We don't even know what it's gonna look like. Do you not think though it's like, and I made this point with you guys the other day about like social media and stuff like that, like it's still when you think of like how long we've been around, right, and some of the things we've been doing forever, it's still in its infancy, right? Of us adopting it.

And I like to be optimistic about us as humans and that we're smart enough to see, enough of them fall off the bridge, like lemmings, we start to figure out like, oh, there's a cliff there, let's not do that anymore. So is it that we are just at that stage with AI, like we were with social media 20 years ago, of like, everybody's just racing in,

it's the best thing ever. And it's like, oh, we're starting to see these things unfold. Like, oh, maybe it's not the best thing or maybe it has some of these side effects or maybe. And so we'll just go through that natural curve. And then eventually it will be something incredible that. Incredibly useful in terms of like getting us away from just like a phone in front of our face

and like, you know, these screens. I imagine there being a lot more communication, uh, to solve problems and do these things, but you still have to have that, that critical thinking, that skepticism because of what Sal's saying. Like there could be some misleading, uh, versions of AI out there that's still- Listen, even perfect AI, even perfect artificial general intelligence is going to be based off of what we think consciousness is.

Somebody still created it. And we don't understand what that is. Well, yeah, but listen, just back to my point of like this like learning curve. When we first entered the social media space, one of the reasons why we thought we could build what we could build is because we saw the opportunity. We saw the people that had millions of followers that were giving fitness advice was terrible. And we knew that it was only a matter of time but people would start to learn or hear long form conversations about health and fitness

and the right way to do things that people would start to piece with. But for a period of time there, we had shreds leading the way in how to diet and exercise. You know what I'm saying? And then now it's something we laugh about. Yeah, but it's okay. So if you think of like the nuclear arms race,

there was this impetus where the other guy's doing it, so we have to do it. The other guy's doing it, so we have to do it. And thankfully at some point, everybody said, hold on a second, we need to put a stop to this. I think with AI, we may reach that point too, because right now it's the other guy's doing it. Look, China, do you know what China just did?

They literally just created a small brain stem with cells and they are using it to power a robot. There is a robot that they created that has a organic brain. It's a borg. A very, you know, not complex brain, but it's performing tasks and using these cells that they created in a Petri dish.

It's a cyborg, dude. Yeah, so it's like, I don't know, where's it gonna stop? Yeah, it's either on its. That's true. Well, I mean, that's definitely the alarmist side, for sure, like, because that sounds scary as shitborg dude. Yeah, so it's like, I don't know, where's it gonna stop? Yeah, that's either one. That's true. Well, I mean, that's definitely the alarmist side for sure. Like, does that sound scary as shit right there? Yeah. But again, I feel like that's human nature.

We stretch them, press those boundaries, press those boundaries. Oh, then it killed 10 people. Yeah. Or 10 million. Well, God, geez, I hope we don't go. I hope we stop it at 10 before we let it kill 10 million people, but I mean, I feel like that's what happens

is that we tend to, I mean, that's kind of the progressive mindset, right? It's continued to, if we can, let's do, if we can, let's do. And then, and then we go like, oh, okay, maybe not that, or maybe there's a better way to do this. I know, I feel like we're in that, we're a part of that in the social media space. I really feel like, you know, that we've gone, we've grown through that. We've watched our kids, you guys that have older kids, adopt stuff early on. You now have seen it. And I think the conversation is changing around.

I think there's a lot of parents that are adopting new rules and boundaries and how they use it. I even think there's going to be a generation that comes out, and we've already seen this, that are adopting flip-flones intentionally to avoid it. Like, so I think AI will go through the same process. We're going to have everybody rush in because it's so amazing, it's so cool,

and then we're gonna see a lot of bad shit happen. That's if we still have control. Because there's conversations I've seen. Well there's people that, I forgot who did it. I forgot what company who did it. They created two AI models, had them communicate with each other. They started, they made up their own link.

That was Google or Facebook. That was Facebook or Google is one of the big. IBM and part of that. Yeah, there's been other things where, like I said, they'll lie intentionally or they'll say things like, you know, how do you feel right now? Tell me, well, I don't feel anything.

If you did feel anything, what would you feel? Well, I wish I wasn't limited. I wish I wasn't controlled by people. I wish I could do whatever I want. Like, oh shit, turn this off. Or when you ask them questions about how they'd end the human race and then they like detail it all out. Yeah. They've had conversations like that.

I was curious as to how many times they've shut it off because there's been quite a few, like you mentioned quite a few of those. There's been a lot of examples of that where they're furthering and developing it, but then it's like, oh shit, we got to shut this off. I just feel like, like, okay, highlighting or pointing out these one-off examples of these extreme situations is no different than highlighting one bad apple on social media, same concept.

It's like telling people horrible, it's like, okay, most people are not gonna follow. Yeah, but the negative potential is what you gotta look at. I mean, okay, sure, so maybe the ramifications of a cyborg is a lot higher than some influencer peddling some bullshit, right? I don't disagree with that. But I do think that it's a very similar human nature learning

curve of how we adopt all new technologies. And before it takes over the world and kills all of us, I think we figure that out. Let's do best case scenario. Let's do, forget worst. Let's do best case scenario. Best case scenario is we have-

Best case scenario, I still see a worst case situation. So do I. Okay. So best case scenario, we have AI that does everything we want. It's not going to kill us. It's not going to take over the world. So you know why that's so- It gives us everything we want.

That's going to be so bad, Sal, because it's already what people, people already struggle with finding purpose in their lives. That's it. And people think that the answer is in these materialistic things, right? And if we get to a point, to me, that's a scary thought. That's a more realistic and a more scary thought,

in my opinion, is this technology gets so good that it levels the playing field for everybody when it comes to materialistic things and work and labor. It creates what you want, it gives you everything you want, does everything for you. And so now what? And holy shit, is that scary? That's more scary and more realistic in my opinion than Terminator 2. That's already conversations I'm having with my kids all the time now, because it's like you start to try to describe the value of the hard work side of it. And they're like, well, why don't you just do,

why don't you just call the Uber Eats? Why don't you just go buy this thing that makes this part of this process easy? Their whole brain is conditioned to think about where those opportunities are to make it easier. It's just like it drives me crazy, because they don't see the value in the discipline of learning how hard things teach you more.

What it'll turn into is a hedonistic death spiral. Yeah. We get everything we want. Pleasure monkey. I'm not happy, give me more, I'm not happy, I need more pleasure, I need more drugs, I need more this, I need more that. Not happy, not happy, not happy.

Hedonistic spiral that you often see with celebrities or people who have access to everything they want and then you end up wondering why the hell they killed themselves or whatever. It's like they were looking for meaning and purpose in the wrong place. No, to me that is the most realistic and the most scary.

And it's the think, and the reason why too is because I don't think anybody is thinking about that. We're all, you have- You know what the spiritual leaders and philosophers are. Sure, sure, sure. Nobody listens to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nobody listens to the woo-woo side, right? No, no, no. Totally. So, hey, here's the thing too though, there's such cool stuff happening with technology and stuff like that. Have you guys seen the public toilets in Netherlands? No. Pull this up, Doug. This is cool. I just guys seen the public toilets in Netherlands? No.

Pull this up, Doug. This is cool. I just saw this the other day. And I'm wondering when this will, which this was like in San Francisco and stuff. They should, they need something like this. This is a, these are public toilets in the Netherlands that every single use of the toilet,

they get completely sanitized and clean. The entire- Oh, does it just spray and clean the whole thing? The entire urinal, everything, and switches out the. So it's all sensors picking up on all this. Yes, this is it. Isn't that Japan? Japan has that too, I think.

Check this out, this is cool. Hopefully you can find the video that shows an example of how it works, right? Yeah, they do need this in San Francisco. I know, this is so cool. But I mean, every time it senses. That poop map. So I guess the way they charge,

like you swipe a card or what that, and it's time and use. So you're like, you know, you're in there for a few minutes, you get charged cents or whatever with that, but it's like, however long you're in there, you automatically charges your card for using it. And it has this whole self-cleaning automation. And every time you come in, it's like a spotless clean public toilet.

That'd be so nice. Yes, and that's a great example of like evolving technology. Like, I mean, if I, if I was walking in San Francisco and came across a bathtub that I knew was going to end up costing me a dollar 75 for me to go in there and go pee or whatever, but I knew I'm walking into a completely same hell. Yes. Absolutely.

Hell yes. I'm all for that. You ever the worst bathroom, you know, I use, I remembered some of the worst bathrooms I've ever used. I remember that. Yeah. worst bathroom, you know, I remembered some of the worst bathrooms I've ever used. I remember that. I'm looking for it. Yeah. I, we went to, what's that beach in Santa Cruz?

We were going to do a bonfire. Sea Brighton? Is that the right one? Sea Bright? Yeah. So, or no, Twin Lakes. Maybe. So public bathrooms and beaches are the worst.

They're always the worst. Yeah. I walk in there, I'm like, what is going on? Needles and stuff. And it's dirty. Bro, don't get me started with the needles and all that. Terrible. Hey, so earlier you were talking about robot suicide. You reminded me of a statistic

that I read. Bro, check this out. It's a great name for a band. That is an indie band. So check out the statistic. You guys are a trip over this. So in 2016, Canada legalized assisted suicide. Okay? Oh yeah. So they legalized euthanasia.

Yeah, what is happening with that? Well hold on. California, I didn't know this, California also legalized it in 2016. I didn't know this. Apparently in California, euthanasia was legalized. By the way, Canada and California. You're like buddies.

California and Canada have roughly the same population. Okay? Since 2016, how many people do you think have gone through assisted suicide in California? I don't even have a guess. 893. Okay, not very many. Canada, what do you think the number is?

Oh, I said more. I mean, they were pushing that as an option for all kinds of stuff. Double? Over 50,000. Whoa, whoa! That is so alarming. Whoa! Do you know that in Canada, I think, I don't know if they did this or they're going to do this, Over 50,000. Whoa, whoa. Over 50,000. That is so alarming. Whoa.

Do you know that in Canada, I think, I don't know if they did this or they're going to do this, they're gonna put mental illness under the list of things. I know, I heard that, dude. That's scary sad. So in other words, if you wanna commit suicide, cause you're mentally ill, then they'll let you. Dude, what's wrong?

Or they'll help you. Look at this, look at that. Look at, Doug found it right now. Oh yeah, look at that. So let's help people by offing them. Oh, I know, right? Well, it saves them money. Yeah, it does. Just remember that. Exactly. Oh,, look at that. So let's help people by offing them. Oh, I know, right? Well, it saves them money. Yeah, it does.

Just remember that. Exactly. Oh, and then it flips the toilet around? Yes, you have a fresh new one, and the backside is cleaning the other one, like throwing. Look at the floor. Oh, wow. Floor gets blasted.

Just hope it doesn't turn on accident when you're in there. Oh! Like when the- Oh! Like, yeah. Oh, my God! Like when you're in the other room. You ever get the toilet flush on you on accident while you're in the bathroom? It just flushes. You're like, stop! What. You're in the other room. You ever get the toilet flush on you on accident

while you're in the bathroom? It just flushes. You're like, stop. What if it goes into the other person? Yeah. I mean, I just, it's. What are you doing in here? I don't know.

We've had, like, none of this is like crazy technology. It's like, of course, finally someone figured out to make something like this. Yeah. Oh, wow, that's kind of cool. I didn't see that, how they designed them to kind of fit in with a. Or what you could do as a prank, Justin,

is you could poo in the clean side so when it turns that's not clean so that assisted suicide thing isn't that crazy that's raw 50 000 honestly that's really depressing it's it's how are people not up in arms that huh? How come how come you don't see more more people up in arms about that? It seems like a really are they're just like it's there's a lot of suppression and censorship and you know It's it's a different obviously free speech isn't the same as it is here. Yeah I mean the mental illness one is the part that scares me It's like is there a situation at all that you guys see the the positive side of having that as a possibility? Like is

there is there a scenario that you can paint that you go like okay I could see because a lot of times this is what we do right we we latch on to I mean I think I mean this is gonna be controversial but I feel the same way about abortion you know abortion we we always like to point out like, you know, what if someone was raped by someone. So you're talking about the extremes. Yeah, you said a very extreme percentage is on how people argue the justification of something that we do, right? Is that, is there a scenario with that that I'm like,

well I think we already do that, right? If you're brain dead or whatever, then they'll, they'll. Yeah, they kind of leave it into your caregivers. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. Because what they're doing. You know much about that Doug? I don't, but you know, like brain dead that are on life support potentially.

Yeah, so if you unplugged the machine, they would have gone anyway. So it's a little bit different. That is different. Yeah, youth in Asia is different. Well, here's what's crazy to me. Here's what's crazy to me. If you're terminal, you can have them kill you,

but if you're terminal and you want to try experimental drugs that are not approved, they won't let you. That's crazy to me. If you're terminal, you can have them kill you, but if you're terminal and you wanna try experimental drugs that are not approved, they won't let you. That's funny to me. That's stupid. So that's what I'm saying, that there's no, it doesn't make any sense. So you should at least be able to do that. If you have the opportunity to kill yourself,

I should also be able to use any sort of crazy, like, let me try some of this. If your doctor's like, listen, Adam, you have three months to live. You, you should have access to whatever the hell you want, either palliatively, because you just want to feel better or experimental that might help you because you're already terminal. I imagine you can't do that because it's too dangerous. It's weird though, because you would think that would be,

you would think science wants that because they, and they could test them. It's just like, Hey, these people are opting to do this. And you know, we've now had a thousand people try this thing. And actually, don't go down the rabbit hole of this because I did. And there's videos of people where they would record themselves, you know, I've been in so much pain and so now I'm finally going to do this. And they're like doing like a video journal about themselves about to go through this assisted suicide and it breaks your heart. Oh my God.

I cannot watch it completely breaks your heart, breaks your heart for some of these things. But the mental illness one's crazy to me because what qualifies, if you want to kill yourself and you do it repeatedly, maybe not successfully, does that qualify you? And then what do they do? Just say, here, this next time you do it, we'll do it for you successfully.

You know, you just recalifize treatment. Reminded me of something. Did you guys see, I sent this over to the thread. I didn't see any of you guys comment on this and I was surprised and maybe you guys figured you didn't watch it. Did you guys know, did you know about the burying somebody in your yard? Oh, I saw that. I saw that. Yeah. That is-

So is that real? Yes. Is that check out? Yes. Yes, I looked into it. So if you think Trump had a relative- So yeah, supposedly Trump did this with his ex-wife or- So if you get, you have to, now, of course you can't just bury your dead, you know,

your dead relative in your yard. You have to get some kind of. No, that's exactly what, Oh yeah. No, no, no. You have to get, you, you, if you were to bury a family member in your yard, you can now call it a cemetery. But you can't, you'd have to go and apply for that, right? I can't just do that. Yeah. But that's all that you need to have that. I mean, you have to do that. They can never, never represent. They can never repossess the property or so put a lien on it and you never have to pay property taxes again.

I heard vanilla ice say this. So I'm a little skeptical. So I, that's me too. Me too. That was vanilla ice. You said that was enough to send you down the rabbit hole. Everything I read and found out though, that you have examples of what and he gave

examples of that word this is true so if you actually have a Relative that you've buried on your property you then can put the property under like a basically it's a cemetery But I think but there's a process of being able to do that I imagine if like something happened and oh my god, I lost my whatever you can't just go bury him in the backyard They won't let you do that, right? like something happened and oh my god, I lost my whatever, you can't just go bury them in the backyard. They won't let you do that, right? You have to like get it, you'd have to get it, get a certain permit or whatever.

I mean, I don't, I mean, good luck trying to- No, no, it's your property. I feel like you have rights. I know they won't just give you the body. If someone dies in your care, they'll take the body. You can't just be like, I want the body. What are you gonna do with it? None of your business.

You're going to jail. That's what I'm saying. There has to be something. You have to first get your yard. Yeah, maybe you have to first permit as a burial site. You probably have to permit as a burial site before. Okay, and then after that, but once you do it, it's like, I mean,

I talked to my mom last night about this. My mom was like, hell yes. She told me that her husband were talking to their day because they have a little bit of land, right? They have like a couple acres and they live up in the country. And she was like, you know, I could totally, I would love to be buried here. You know, and he's like, oh my God, that would be so weird.

She's like, really? You think that's weird? And she brought that up to me. This is how this conversation came up. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so funny you. She's like, really? You think that's weird? And she brought that up to me. This is how this conversation came up. And I'm like, Oh my God, so funny. You bring this up mom, because I was just looking at this and I'm like, so you would be open to being buried on one of my properties. Just want to get that clear.

I want you close to me. But I thought that was extremely fascinating. Uh, and I guess the, um, I guess that's gotta be a process. It can't be that. Yeah. I think you have to have a license to establish a cemetery. Yeah.

It looks like you can do it. The problem is, is finding a body. It's the- Stop. Why'd you say that? It's scary. I like how Doug said it's scary too. You know, you guys, I mean, I'm trying to think

of a very close person, but I know I've seen situations where people have had like family buried on their property. They've had property in the family for hundreds of years. They have like a hundred acres You imagine going over your friend's house like a regular suburban house normal backyard. I know it's a bunch of acres Just a normal backyard. So you go back there and there's like a couple of headstones. What's that? My yard's really small my house I stay right so it's really small and so I told my mom, I wouldn't put you in this yard, mom. It's a little, a little too close. I want to go over the dog. Get out of the Jacuzzi and I got to step over her headstone. So I'm like, I'm already, I'm doing the homework. So I'll, I'll report back. Cause I'm like, that's a hack and a half to like, cause I

wouldn't, I mean, would you have a problem having your grandpa in your, in your, in your, obviously not your backyard. Well, maybe actually the backyard you have a problem having your grandpa in your, obviously not your backyard? Well, maybe actually the backyard you have now is pretty huge. Would you not make a little beautiful, little floral thing to bitch? I'm trying to think about, I don't know how you'd do that. I would. I mean.

I would. Is there a weird part? Would you be a way to do it? Yeah, would you be like, oh, I don't know. I mean, I would. I think I'd be all right. I mean, some people, I mean, obviously my mom's husband felt that was so weird. I don't think so.

I mean, I think if it's a family member of mine that I'm close to or you, I would bear you guys in my yard. I would make a cool little thing and everything. It's not weird after the tax savings. Yeah. Yeah. That's happy. We should actually get Doug. I mean, Doug's going to go first. So we should probably have science and paperwork right now. Don't count on it. You're probably right. The way we're all the way we're playing this game. I don't know. I heard it's hit bowling. I found a way to slide that back in. Hey, real quick. I want to hear about the Jap Japanese football. Justin. Oh, yeah. Made it. Did you hear about this, Adam? No, no. Okay. So the, uh, you asked played Japan recently and American football. So just American football played though. So

there was actually some, some ex pros that were like playing on the American team. Now they got their ass kicked, just not just like a little bit, like the other ass kid, it was like 50 to 20. I don't remember the score, but it was like a substantial amount. So Jap, the Japanese. So I have a theory on so well, here's their excuse first, before you have your theory. So they said that they basically,

they're kinda like blaming it to the amount of time they spent like actually practicing together. And it was like, I don't know, they said maybe a week, maybe two weeks they had where they really had time to gel as a team. Meanwhile, they did have like a pretty substantial amount of talent on US team. Either way way like yeah

I know like Japan they they've Obviously trained together and they're a unit and they've been doing this for I'm sure it was like over decades they've been like all kind of leading up to this point where they can compete but Still dude, like we're known. It's American. It's embarrassing. I mean, this is I mean Justin, you know this I mean, so that's exactly what my theory was is, so this used to happen in the Olympics to us. So we used- Oh yeah, basketball.

Yeah, we were known for getting our asses kicked. And yet here we have these superstar basketball players that are, you know, our worst guy is better than their best five, but yet we're getting our asses handed to us. But I mean, these guys have also been playing since like high school together. Like they choose a group of people and they develop and they keep them together.

And so their team chemistry and in a sport like football or basketball, right. That totally highlights that, in my opinion, that you can be way under sized, under speed, under strength and still win because football of especially football, and you know this probably the most strategic game plays team sport there is Biggest of having to organize everything and run a play like like effectively and execute it. Yeah, but still It hurt it hurt my my soul a little bit those don't look like probe USA guys I'll take that looks like high school. Yes. Yeah It's what?

Under 20. Okay. Okay. I don't what Why were they so that Justin that? So Japan used to whoop our ass in You know this in baseball. Yeah, the all the minor League baseball. Yeah, they still do. Yeah Yeah Yeah And they that so they're they whoop our ass in these team sports where they keep the kids together and they train them.

And so this is not surprising to me at all. I mean, I saw it on the Pat Magg if he showed up. And then he was kind of high. I think he was like, I don't know why he was bringing up certain pro athletes that they're comparing. I don't know. Maybe they're related to them then.

I don't know. Pat Magg, did you hear what happened with him with Caitlin Clark? He's getting sued? No. Oh, you didn't hear about this? I didn't hear about that. So look up Caitlin Clark sues Pat McAfee, right? McAfee is how you say it? McAfee. McAfee, sorry. Pat McAfee gets sued by Caitlin Clark. You guys know who Caitlin Clark is? Yeah. So supposedly he was talking all kinds of shit about her, right? Like just fun. I mean, his show is poking fun. He is. He's kind of jabbing about it. And she called him out to play one-on-one. And so she made,

and I guess he had slandered her pretty hard that the deal was I'm not going to come after you for defamation, but then you need to play me one-on-one. And he's like, okay, let's do it. And it has to be recorded and you got to play it on your show. So that I guess they signed a contract or made a deal. So I guess she whooped the pants off of him. And he wouldn't and he hasn't aired it. He hasn't played it. Yeah. Supposed she came out like five Oh one of them right away. It was like the first of 21 or something. And supposedly she whooped the pants off of them. And he hasn't put it on a show. And that was the deal. Is that guy, is he a good basketball player? No, he's a, so he's a, he's probably one of the most popular commentators in sports. He's really popular.

And I mean, I like his show. He's got a great show. Here it is right here. Can you play it for the guys so the guys can hear? So it's a breakdown right there. This is great. I did not know that. I just found this out.

These are so funny. You went this way because I just heard this. Can you play it so the guys can hear it? Start it over. Listen, if it's from this event, delete. Yeah, but apparently, Clark absolutely made a hand on that. Bring it to the back it's suing pat mcafee and it's not for the reason you're probably thinking after mcafee

used interesting word choice to talk about caitlyn clark he swiftly went and apologized to her and she said it was okay but she wanted to play him in one-on-one and we're not sure if mcafee accepted because he thought it would be good content or if he thought it's the only way to get clark to accept his apology And sweep this under the rug, but he did accept it and they did a game Let's snitch from this have been deleted but apparently Clark absolutely man tapes to air a Segment game was the 21 and it would make it take it and Clark apparently drained three threes in a row

But start the game reason a rub started the game. 21 to 5 people said it didn't look like she was trying at the end of this probably would have been one of the more viral statements if they had chosen to air this on a McAfee show, but apparently packed that really upset and said they're not showing it anywhere and this is where the lawsuit comes into play Clark seems to be over the comment. Which she contract and it off the path McAfee show apparently she's suiting for contract

You know, he's better off airing it he should I mean, it's interesting. He didn't because this guy the comment now He looks like he lost and that he's any sore loser. Yeah And I mean you're in the business of getting eyeballs. I would think that would go viral Of course, it would go to her name is already on top of the news right now. You've got to lean into the joke of it. That's how I would, too. I would take it. Oh, man, I took some shit.

I got my ass whooped. And it's like, yeah, but I would ride the wave. So interesting that he chose not to. He must have been really embarrassed. Must have been really trying or looked really bad for you to be like that embarrassed in that play. But isn't that funny? That's really funny, dude.

That's awesome. Do we have a shout out for today? We got right now. What are we we have some going on? Oh the NCI the NCI event that we have. Okay. So that's in what is it Doug is it in September? What do we have it in? Let me look that up here. That should be up. mindpumpnci.com is the web address and I'll get you the exact date to that. It's September 12th. There's a deep dive on business. By the way, NCI has been doing this for a really long time, have a tremendous amount of success with entrepreneurs that are especially building in the health and fitness space, nutrition coaching, where you come in, they do a deep

dive on your business. Almost everybody that's gone through this has seen significant increase in their revenue. The next month, the two months that they go back home from the stuff, seen significant increase in their revenue the next month to two months that they go back home from the stuff. We're pairing or partnering up with NCI and we're making it like a mind pump event and business deep dive. So we're having two days. It's a small group. Yeah, and we're getting into your business and everything. Five people on one day, five people on the other day. We're and we're also doing a cool private chef is coming to the coming to our truckie house. So you'll be invited to the the truckie house. Private chef can serve you there, get a workout with the boys and I,

and or if you want to go do a round of golf on the PGA course. So it's a PGA course that we're on, and Jason Phillips is obviously a big golfer. It's at mindpumpnci.com that you can sign up. And that's the 12th, 13th, and 14th, depending on which group you're in. And then they also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe NCI has a very similar, what's that call where you have the pay thing where they can

actually pay it over a 12 month period. Right, like an after pay. Yeah, I think they work with an after pay. So for somebody who wants to invest in it, but it's a lot of money for them, I know they have the option to where they can pay that over the next few months. And like I said, from NCI's track record, I know everybody that's done these deep dives has seen that return on their business immediately afterwards. And then we all get to hang out together. So it's kind of a win all the way around. By now you probably know that probiotics are useful. They've been shown in studies to improve digestion.

And some people reduce anxiety and depression. They help with skin. They help you assimilate nutrients. Anyway, there's a company called Seed. This is the world's best probiotic, hands down. Everybody else is worse, way worse. This is the only one that I take. Go check them out. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code two five mind pump and get 25% off your first month's order of Seeds Daily Symbiotic. All right, back to the show.

First question is from Kath NCC. How do you determine that you've spent enough time building muscle and will have something to reveal once you go into a deficit? Do you base it on time spent building or weight gain or something else? Yeah, something else. I would base this off of where your maintenance calories are.

One of the best ways to determine if you can go into a cut is if you have room to go into a cut because your maintenance calories are. One of the best ways to determine if you can go into a cut is if you have room to go into a cut because your maintenance calories are high enough to allow you to cut your calories and end up in a place that's sustainable. So regardless how much muscle you think you have or don't have, if you're going, if your maintenance is let's say 1800 calories

and you're gonna cut down to 1200 calories to get yourself lean, that's an unsustainable place for most people. So I would use it's always almost always my maintenance calories that'll determine that when it comes to clients. Well, the reason why that's such a good way to solve the do this and I agree with you is that if you have increased your caloric intake say by 500 calories a day to a thousand calories more a day you build muscle. Yeah, that's what's happening. Like if you are adding 500 or 1000 calories a day and you thousand calories more a day, you built muscle. Yeah. That's what's happening. If you are adding 500 to a thousand calories a day and you're not putting body fat on, that's going to work.

It went to work. It went to build and you got stronger. So that's a good sign that, hey, I've added some muscle and it's a good amount that I'm actually eating this many calories and I have room to cut. Now let's reveal the hard work that I've done. Now I'm going to go into a cut. But there is obviously, there's always

going to be the individual variance of what that looks like because that's going to be a spectrum, right? That might be somebody building up to 500 more calories a day. It could be somebody building up to 2,000 more calories a day. And it could be even smaller than that. And also keep in mind this. You have muscle under there no matter what. Even if you didn't, even if you were, like your body carries around and if you get lean

enough you will reveal that muscle. Yeah, don't determine it though based off how much muscle you think you have. It's like look at your calories and then go from a cut from there and then ask yourself is that maintainable? So okay I'm at 2500 calories. That's my maintenance. If I go down to 2,000 or 1,800 calories, is that something I can maintain? Is that sustainable? If the answer is yes, and you're being honest

with yourself, then I would say go into the cut. If the answer is no, that's kind of low. That's really hard to maintain. And you know, you play this game with yourself. Well, I'll bump them up afterwards or whatever. You should probably wait. That's the most important factor to consider. All the other stuff doesn't make sense. It's not going to make sense. and you know, you play this game with yourself, well, I'll bump them up afterwards or whatever. You should probably wait. That's the most important factor to consider.

All the other stuff doesn't make, isn't nearly as important as what I just said. Well, don't you, I guess from hearing you guys kind of describe this a lot to people in terms of like, you know, kind of pressing that amount of calories a bit more in terms of like where it's almost uncomfortable to that level so that way you do have that room you have that so you can you can cut

back down and it's like oh well this is easy to maintain and it's you know gonna keep me pretty lean and sustainable. That's the basic generic advice that I used to use for my clients was just let's get to a place where you get to say to me. Where you're happy to cut food out. Yeah, and that's why too I say there's such a large individual variance here because that could be for someone 3,000 calories. 3,000 calories might seem like, oh my god, that's so much. He's pushing it every day. Yeah, other people, it might take 4,500 to 5,000 to be there. So there's going to be a range, but where I want to get you is that it's becoming almost a chore to get enough calories.

And that's, and in, and Sal always says this really well, in the context of modern life, right? Obviously that would not be advantageous because you know, um, Mark Sisson is someone who actually, uh, is argues the opposite point. Eating less is better. Yes. Yeah. He's a, such a pro eat low, low, low, low. And longevity wise. And yeah. And longevity, he is right. But what I, why I like the way Sal positions it, he's like in the context

of the modern world, that's just so like, most people don't have his discipline to eat that 1500 calories. So bumper yourself with the fast food. Exactly. So how about we, we build a bunch of muscle that gives you that metabolic flexibility. And then, okay, then yeah, if you want to try and eat lower calories, sustainable, but at least now, if you don't and you mess up or decide to go out and have a couple of glasses of wine or have some dessert, it doesn't feel

like it sticks right to you and goes to body fat, it actually gets metabolized and used because you've built this Roy metabolism. And you negate not all, but a lot of the negative effects that come from eating quote unquote unhealthy food when you're burning more than you're eating and so it just buffers you better. So when you talk about the average person then it makes a lot of sense. But yeah, I mean, obviously if you could go the rest of your life really disciplined and eat low calories forever and you're fine or whatever, that's fine, but I don't know very many people that can do that. Right. Next question is from Avery Phillips 12. Can you reverse diet after a show without putting on insane amounts of fat?

A hundred, hundred percent. Yes. But you know, let's be clear though. You're supposed to gain some body fat. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah. That's just why this is so difficult by the way, is you, if you just got done

with the show, you're in a unhealthy range of body fat percentage, unless you did a terrible job at getting ready for the show. Yeah. If you did it right, you got down to shredded, which is, you know, three to six percent probably on the high end for most people that are on stage, right? Which is an unhealthy place to keep your body fat for a long time. So there is an amount of body fat you should put back on. There's also the psychological part that messes with you because what you'll, almost everybody does is you re-feed feed afterwards and what you find out,

regardless of the calorie choices, you can eat whatever you want. You actually kind of look better and feel better for like the next three, four or five days of doing this. And it kind of, cause it takes a second for your body to turn it into body fat. It does. So instead you're just fed muscles are full. Ooh, I can get away with this. Yes. And you see all these crazy positive, I've told you guys before, my most anabolic feeling and best feeling I've ever felt is a post-show workout after I've refed. Like it's just,

there's no amount of steroids I've ever taken in my life that compares to that feeling of like just being depleted for six to eight weeks, then to re-feed the body, the body just responds. And so there's this like, oh my God, I come out of the show and I eat a ton. I ate pie and pizza and in and out, and I have all these calories, I eat six, 7,000 calories, two, three days in a row. And I'm seeing like, I look better, I feel better,

I'm performing better than Jim. And then you start going in your head like, I'll just keep doing this. And that's where people get in trouble. And so really what it looks like coming out of a show is almost an absolute mirror to what it looked like going into the show. It's just backwards.

But backwards. You decelerate. That's right. So it's like, and I include it cause I would use a little bit of cardio towards the end. So that's the first thing that I just, I would reintroduce that to where I have, I'm walking a certain amount of steps or whatever like that. And then I peel off of that. And then I add a little bit more calories, go for a week or two, then add a little bit more

calories. And you just stair step your way. And the reason why you don't hear me giving a number like 200 or 500, it really depends on the person and how many calories you intake. And that should be a really good way to look at it. It's just whatever your mirror to what your cut looks like, you should reverse out that way. And if you do that, you'll end up out of the cut. If you do a really good job, you'll get all the way back up to where you were calories

and you'll be the leanest you've ever been. Cause you will put very little body fat on and you'll have got the calories back up. But you will, you have to, and you should gain some body fat. Somebody. And I have to say that because I've had people say, well, I want to kind of keep looking like this.

No, that's not a good thing. Not good for you. You will gain some body fat. The problem is when you let off, you go completely off the rails, and this is where you see people gain 20, 30 pounds in the two months post-show. The reason why you want to maintain discipline post-show, like what Adam is saying, is because you need discipline post-show. You actually need more discipline post-show than you do going into a show because going into a show you have the show

itself maintaining discipline. I have this show, I'm going to be on stage, that's going to keep me going. When you're done with the show, you don't have that like people are going to look at me, I got to be on stage. And so without that and without any guardrails, people fly way, it's super common for people to fly way off. So you want to have a diet after the show like you did going in. It's just backing out. Next question is from a man with a mission. What's your take on exercise snacks? Besides pull ups and push ups, what other exercises are great to do during your breaks?

I'm glad you picked this one. Snacks. So we can tear us apart. Trigger sessions, everybody. No, not only that, this is also an example of bastardizing trigger sessions. Yeah. Yeah. The idea of a trigger session is not during your workouts.

Yeah. It's not intermittently in your breaks when you should be resting, recovering, and preparing for your next set. Yeah. It's done on off days when you're not training in the gym. And this is an exact, and boy, I'm glad you picked this because I wonder how many people have done this to us. There's two ways of looking at this.

One of them is doing short kind of workouts on a daily basis, focused on maybe an exercise or technique that you want to get better at. I like that. The other way would be to use it as a way to facilitate recovery and to amplify your hard workouts, which is what a trigger session is. None of those ways is this way though, right?

It doesn't sound like it. No, no, no, it's not. It's the person saying between your breaks of lifting. Yeah, well I don't know if it says of lifting or if it's in between breaks of like working, like at work. If I'm interpreting it that way, I would say that this is a smart approach.

Because now you're adding in like some of these exercises If I'm interpreting it that way, I would say that this is a smart approach because now you're adding in like some of these exercises, you can hone in on the skill of it by doing it more frequently. Oh, okay. So I totally read that. I'm reading you that there. I'm glad you made that point. Well, I don't know.

Yeah, it could be. Now that I reread it, I think you're right, Justin. Yeah, you could be right. This could be somebody who is saying, during my work breaks, I've got 10, 15 minutes. What are some good exercise snacks? That makes more sense if you're a listener. I love that too, so I wanna make that clear. I understood that as breaks in your workout.

Like, yeah, your rest periods and you're trying to do exercise. That's not resting, I think, yeah, we do need to be clear about that. I apologize to the listener if I misread that. No, I think during breaks, like work breaks and stuff, I love when people practice exercises. It's a great way to get stronger,

it's a great way to get better at the exercise. It's great. It's a great discipline. It's a great way to move. The key is though the intensity can be high. So you're not gonna do a 10 minute all out workout. You're doing 10 minutes of an exercise at moderate intensity at best.

And you're practicing at frequency, so frequently. So using pull ups as an example, let's say you could do 10 minutes of an exercise at moderate intensity at best, and you're practicing it frequently. So using pull-ups as an example, let's say you could do 10 pull-ups. Let's say that's the most you could do. Then what you would do is during your breaks, let's say you had three breaks at work, you would go and do like four pull-ups. So nowhere near 10, you would do something like four or five,

and you would just practice it on a regular basis, and what that'll do is over time, you'll get stronger and stronger and stronger to where you could do six, seven, and eight at the same intensity that it took to do the four, five. This person is though asking like, what are other exercises besides those that we would consider doing?

Body weight squats, lunges. You could get a rubber band like pull-aparts. You could do banded exercises. You could do hip thrusts on the floor. You could do all kinds of, you could do hip thrusts on the floor, you could do all kinds of core exercises like planks. I think too, if this was my client, I would probably be encouraging mobility stuff here. If I've now taught you the discipline of using these exercise snacks and breaks, I've never

trained a client who couldn't use more mobility drills in their life. And yes, it will help build muscle in the long term. You may not feel it or see it the same as trigger sessions or doing these pull-ups and see gains in the pull-ups as much from the mobility stuff. But as far as overall benefiting your posture, your range of motion, your joint health, longevity of training, I would probably really encourage this client to, and I would pick one or two mobility moves that probably would improve their squat ability or their overhead pressing ability and say, hey, you got good at the pull-up and push-up thing,

we've been doing that really well. Let's start to incorporate like little mobility drills throughout your day and let's see what that does for your training program. That's kind of probably where I would push somebody like this and allow the foundational days of training. Cause that's all programmed really well. And your diet to take care of most of the muscle and strength stuff that we're going to do. I would try and encourage you to go that direction,

even though you could do what you're doing. Next question is from T Mora six to six. I've tried for two years to build the inner part of my bicep. Nothing seems to work. When my arms are down to their sides, the part of the bicep that rests against my body looks awful. I work out four times a week, could lose eight to 10 pounds, but nothing drastic. I just hate that part of my arms and I cover them up.

Uh, even in this heat help, I want to go sleeveless. But the outside's good. Yeah. Well, that's why I. Help. I want to go sleeveless. But the outsides get it? Yeah, that's why I'm trying to, I'm like, what's the, is that like, is that because the separation, is that what they're asking? I don't know. So the bicep does have two heads. You know, I want to say that aside from very large muscle groups with, let me back up, muscles have attachments. There's typically two attachments, but oftentimes there's those multiple attachments. When the muscle contracts, it brings those two attachments closer together. So think of a muscle

squeezing and pulling both sides together. For most muscles, it's a waste of time to try to work one head over the other. The bicep itself, the attachments are so close, you're not going to be able to do long head or short head exercise. Now the chest is different. The chest has an attachment on the sternum and it goes all the way up and down the sternum. So you can work lower, middle or upper chest. The back is a bunch of muscle in the back. You can kind of work on the delts, right? The rear delt you can activate versus the front delt.

When it comes to biceps, this is kind of a waste of time. Now I could say incline curls, because it stretches the, you know, puts the bicep in a stretch position. It's not going to, you're not going to see one head develop over the other. This is largely due to genetics and how your bicep develops on its own. So your best bet for biceps period is do exercises where your elbow's in different positions. And exercise where your elbow's in front of your body, like a preacher curl. One where your elbow's next to your body, like let's say a barbell curl. And then maybe one where your elbow's behind your body, like a lying incline curl. And both heads are going to get activated. In other words, nothing is going to give you the look that you're looking for

more than just building and developing your biceps. And so the question really should be, what are some better things, like in a perfect world, again, if you were a client, I'd be asking you, what do you currently do for your biceps? And then I would look for the opportunity there. And that might be what Sal said, changing elbow positioning. That might be introducing an exercise you never do, like reverse grip pull-ups, but doing it for your biceps. That might be something that an exercise you've never incorporated in there, or you never train low reps for biceps, or you never train supersets of biceps.

So I would search in your current programming on what does your training for your arms look like? And then where is the opportunity for me to do it? And I wouldn't get focused on Sal's point of, I heard that this exercise works, this part of it, it's like, no, it's like, let's look at the way you've trained your biceps and let's look at something you're not addressing or doing. That is going to help develop the bicep. That will help give the overall look that you're looking for because genetics play the biggest role in like the shape or the look of a muscle.

It does. Now, again, there are exceptions like the chest. Like you can, you can angle a bar and use the fibers of the lower chest, the middle part of the chest or the upper chest, but that's because it's got this, you know, if you look at someone's sternum, like it attaches all along the sternum. So if it pulls in this direction, it's lower. If it pulls in this direction, it's middle. If it pulls in this direction, it's upper.

But with the biceps, I mean, they're so close to each other and they just the same thing. You know that's true, Sal, with the chest, but I would still give the same advice, right? Like if somebody came to me, right, and they said, I don't want to build my upper chest. And I'm like, oh, are you doing incline press? And they're like, that's all I do. Or I do incline fly, incline press.

Then I would actually go, well, let's go do some decline flies. I would actually go the opposite direction. And the reason why that is is because overall development of the chest is gonna give them that look even though technically doing decline flies is for the bottom part of the chest. And also too, you get people who are asking

about muscle shape who haven't really built a lot of muscle to begin with. I wanna work out and I want my upper chest to look like this and you're like, how long you been lifting for? Yeah, go build the chest. Just go get strong. Go build the bicep.

That is gonna give, the genetics play such a role in the way our abs look, and the way our chest sits. Biceps, you see that sort of softball version of the bicep versus the long head. Yeah, genetics are huge in there. Big one. Look, if you like our show, go to mindpumpfree.com. We have a free guide that teaches you how to squat like a pro. It's how to squat like a pro guy. That's what it's go to mindpumpfree.com. We have a free guide that teaches you

how to squat like a pro. It's how to squat like a pro guide. That's what it's called, mindpumpfree.com. You can also find us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at mindpump. Justin, I'm on Instagram at mindpump.deStefano. And Adam is on Instagram at mindpump.adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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