Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2404: Why Overtraining May Be Making You Fat, How to Determine Your Ideal Bodyweight, Tips for Cutting Body Fat Without Messing Up Your Hormones & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered live callers' questions. People call in, we get to help them out and coach them on air. It's a good time. But this part of the episode is after the intro.

Starting point is 00:00:28 The intro is 53 minutes long today. Now that's when we talk about current events and family life and we have a lot of fun. We talk about scientific studies. By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps. Click on them, skip around your favorite parts. Also, if you wanna be on an episode like this one, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by a sponsor. JOOVE.

Starting point is 00:00:48 They make red light therapy like the ones that are quoted in studies. Red light therapy improves the look of your skin. It speeds up recovery. It reduces pain. It might even raise testosterone with certain applications. Go check them out. Go to JOOVE.com. That's J-O-O-V-V.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump, get $50 off your first purchase. Also, we have a sale this month on some programs. MAPS BANDS is 50% off and MAPS 40 plus also 50% off. If you're interested in either one or both,

Starting point is 00:01:24 go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code August 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. All right, so you want to get a six-pack. Everybody knows you got to get lean to do that, but here's what everybody misses. You got to build your ab muscles. In fact, if you build your ab muscles, you'll see your six-pack at higher body fat percentages. In other words, your ab muscles, you'll see your six pack at higher body fat percentages. In other words, the smartest way to get a six pack is to get lean and build the muscles of your core. Then you can see your abs. I like this. I like this tip because I think by now everybody has heard abs are made in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so everybody has abs. Everybody has abs. You just

Starting point is 00:02:04 got to reveal it through getting rid of that layer of body fat that you have covering them. And that's true, right? We all, regardless of you, never train them. If you get lean enough, you will see abs. So that is a fact. But I remember when you first started talking about this, and I'm notorious for this, where I've just

Starting point is 00:02:23 used the abs are made in the kitchen philosophy and just get shredded lean and you'll see my abs. But it wasn't until we had linked up and I remember you had written no BS six pack abs and you had really kept telling me like, listen dude, like I was the same way. And when I really focus on building my abs, just like I would build my biceps or my quads

Starting point is 00:02:44 or anything else, the benefit of that was I could carry my body at a higher body fat percentage, but have my abs revealed like that I was two, 3% leaner. And I was like, oh wow, okay, that sold me. The fact that, because I always know, like there's a body fat percentage and it's like, oh, there's where my abs are at. But I never actually went after building my abs like any other muscle. Yeah, I did them, you know, like there's a body fat percentage. And it's like, oh, there's where my abs are at. But I never actually went after building my abs

Starting point is 00:03:06 like any other muscle. Yeah, I did them, you know, and intermittently. Even then, probably a lot of like high reps. Yes, exactly. I would, I was going to say, I intermittently would put them in my routines. If I did, it was a lot of high reps, super setting, you know, type of training.

Starting point is 00:03:19 Never did I approach it like building my legs or my chest or anything else where I knew the value of? Low rep training and what was really fascinating was I had neglected that so much And so it responded even better than I would have anticipated this this was a Struggle for me for a while. It was frustrating like I would get you know, I would routinely get down to 10% body fat and You know, I could see my six pack when I flexed, but when I was relaxed, I couldn't see it. So I'm like, gosh, do I got to get down to like 7% for that to happen?

Starting point is 00:03:55 And I would do it. I'd get myself down to 7% or 8%. And you could kind of see it. And I remember reading some article from Paul Chek. You guys know who Paul is. He's like the godfather of wellness. And Paul physically is known for having this incredibly strong core. And when you see these pictures of him in his forties and fifties.

Starting point is 00:04:13 He's got a really strong core. He's in his sixties now, I think, but in his fifties and sixties, he just had these block abs. And I was like, God, I, you know, I never, I've never tried to build my core muscles. I've always trained them like I want them to have a lot of stamina and endurance, because that's what I thought. Right? Whereas when I train my biceps or my shoulders or my pecs or my back or my

Starting point is 00:04:31 legs, I would try to get them stronger and I build them and they develop. And I knew that when they were developed, a developed muscular arm looks leaner with body fat on it than a not developed, not muscular arm at the same body fat. I knew that. So I started to train my abs and my core like I was trying to develop the muscles. And what did that look like? Resistance training.

Starting point is 00:04:52 You know, I was doing lower reps. I was slowing things down. I was doing sets of eight or 10, high tension. Now perfect form, of course, if your form is off with your abs, you end up training your hip flexors. But I started training this way and I started to get strong and I was doing dragon flags that's a that's an exercise that you see Bruce Lee doing yeah Rocky for you know he did them and Bruce Lee's honest that was the real

Starting point is 00:05:14 inspiration here this had nothing to do with programming the science everything to do with I want to be able to do that was the second time I saw that exercise the second time I saw that exercise. The second time I saw it was Rocky IV, the whole montage where he's training for the Russian. I'm going to blow up your story. I think this is how this really went down. I don't think you were deep diving in the science.

Starting point is 00:05:32 I think you were trying to be Rocky and then found a way to support your argument. That's what probably went really. Let's be honest with the audience. How am I going to explain to everybody why I'm doing this weird exercise? No, there's that scene in the montage where he's doing the dragon flag. There's also where he's hanging upside down from the rafters. Yeah. And it's like, anyway, so, but the first time I saw dragon flags was, I think,

Starting point is 00:05:53 Enter the Dragon, if I'm not mistaken, with, I was a huge Bruce Lee fan. And so, as I was training for, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna try that. It's really hard. It's hard, actually. I have to have to be really strong. And what happened, my abs started to, and when you build your abs, they stick out more. Like they start to develop, like any muscle.

Starting point is 00:06:10 So you start to get like these, almost like these biceps, right, on your abs. And then I had a six pack that was visible without flexing at like 11%. That never would have happened. Like 11% I'd stand relaxed, and you know, someone would take a picture, it'd be at the beach or something,

Starting point is 00:06:25 and I'd be like, oh my God, there's my abs. It's because they're developed, I didn't have them, they weren't developed before, they were there, they just weren't developed, and I had to get real lean to get that like six pack look. The other inspiration was Carl Weathers. Remember Carl Weathers from Predator and also from the Rocky movies?

Starting point is 00:06:41 Yeah, Rocky, yeah. But Predator in particular, he's standing there with that vest and his shirt off, he's got these abs that stuck out. I want a six pack you can see when I don't flex. And I had to build them to make that happen. Back when our movie stars were jacked. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:57 I hope we bring that back. Yeah, I know. I hope we bring that back. Do you know, for the audience, there's another really good example I feel like today for people that are not old enough to relate to anything you're talking about right now. Let me give something for them to relate to. I think really good examples of this are CrossFit athletes. Yes, CrossFit athletes do. What a great example. They really all their routines incorporate all kinds of core ab stuff.

Starting point is 00:07:22 They have well developed core muscles. And you see all the girls, the guys all have, and they can have a higher body fat percentage, and they look relaxed, and they're blocked out. And I think that is an example of programming at strength training your abs right there. Yeah, I was going to say something, but I know I'm going to get mealy roasted for it, because I did go through a stint when I was bodyweight training.

Starting point is 00:07:43 I got into Olympic rings, and I just completely focused on that. Like it was so intense on my abs. Like I remember my core was like, you know, probably the best it ever was, but it was like doing these front levers, back levers, like, you know, ball ups and it's just, it was constant and it was constant stress and tension. And, uh, you know, that kind of stimulus in the core and as it was Just like they're pronounced to them. Well, there's two myths that For that I just thought you guys were gonna pile

Starting point is 00:08:18 Stupid I was like, what do you say? I guess today the fat jokes have been a lot It was the first thing you said, you still gotta get a lead. I don't know, it's been so long. I don't know. It's like, yeah. Sorry to let you down.

Starting point is 00:08:32 Yeah. Well, there's two myths that permeate core training. One of them is a myth that we know, most people who work out know to be false, but when it comes to their core, they forget it, right? And that's that high reps burns body fat in the area that you're training spot reduction, right? You want to get ripped legs do a million reps? It'll burn body fat from your legs like most people now know that's totally false doesn't work that way

Starting point is 00:08:54 But people still think that with their core like I'm gonna do a lot of reps because I want to get a lean midsection Doesn't work that way body fat is burned from wherever your body. It's systemic So wherever your body wants to burn body fat from and the first place you tend to store body fat tends to be the last place that you lose it. There's nothing you can do about that. So you get lean enough and you get lean enough everywhere else.

Starting point is 00:09:14 The second myth that permeates core training is, why would I want to build my waist bigger? Why would I want a bigger waist? It's not gonna happen, listen. Build your core, build your obliques, build your abs. You're gonna probably add a tenth of an inch to your waist, but you're gonna look leaner, it doesn't even matter. And you see, by the way, you know when this becomes

Starting point is 00:09:37 visible and obvious is athletes, you never see athletes with wispy waists, you know, like in bodybuilding where they're trying so hard to make this, which bodybuilders are so muscular that it really doesn't even matter how small they're trying to make it. That was the guy who pointed out and attacked you on the field.

Starting point is 00:09:51 Totally. With wispy waists. I remember in my 20s, we went to Rome, and then we went to France, we went to the Louvre Museum, and we saw all these ancient sculptures, both from Greece. They all have those. Dude, the sculpture of Hercules, I don't remember what it's called, but he's got like a lion skin

Starting point is 00:10:10 on his back and he's standing there. And I remember, I was into fitness at this time, I was managing gyms, and I remember standing there looking at, there's also David, right? And I remember looking at the statue and their depiction of strength, because Hercules, you know, that's the mythological character and he has of strength, because Hercules, you know, that's the mythological character of, and he has tremendous strength.

Starting point is 00:10:28 So obviously the sculptor is trying to display what that would look like. And the only examples they had back then, they didn't have bodybuilding, they didn't have, what they had were like gladiators and athletes and what they saw in those people. And when you look at the depiction of Hercules, what you saw was strong hip muscles,

Starting point is 00:10:46 strong glutes, strong quads. Obliques especially. You didn't see overly developed pecs and biceps, but they were still developed. And then when you looked at his core, and that's what stood out, I looked at his core, I was like, wow, look how well developed his abs and obliques are.

Starting point is 00:10:59 And of course, when you're an athlete and you wanna be strong, like if you have weak abs and core and obliques, doesn't matter how strong your arms and legs are, you're gonna get folded in half. I mean, look at that picture right there where it's kind of leaning over something and you see his oblique kind of bulge out.

Starting point is 00:11:15 Is it true? Like I actually heard that like, you know how they have like tiny peepees, like how they sculpted that like intentionally because otherwise they're like barbaric and uh, like it was, it was for like the noble per like, they thought it was aesthetic, the intelligent. Yeah. So it was ecstatic to have a small winner. That's what the, what the sculpture, the sculptors, the sculptors who sculpted these athletes and these depictions, it was considered aesthetic that

Starting point is 00:11:41 put a small penis on them versus a... Shut up. Yeah. No way. That's true. No, it's got to be true. Really? If you look at all the statues, they're very small. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I noticed things like that.

Starting point is 00:11:54 I mean, can someone fact check this? This is like a real... No, it's a fact. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, I read it and I just was like... I just thought the poor guys, I figured that they had such small pee-pees, it and I just was like, I don't know if that was true. I figured that they had such small pee-pees,

Starting point is 00:12:06 they overcompensated by getting strong and building a lot of muscle. No, no, no, no. In fact, here you go, to convey that the man was rational and intellectual and in control of his urges. There you go. Now you gotta remember that when they would make a sculpture, they were telling a story.

Starting point is 00:12:22 So if they were depicting a sculpture on fertility, if you look at Greek and Roman sculptural, imagine how mad you are if you're David and you like forever, you'll forever be known there posing. And then it's just like, there was nobody posing. It was, it was, it wasn't a David that was posing. Oh, he didn't pose for that. No, they were just, there was some guy off somebody. No they were probably off of, they could at least base it off somebody. I mean David is based off of them. They probably had models. I mean David is obviously biblical. Yeah but they change a lot. The other thing too is if you look at the exaggerated look at the proportions of the hands and feet on David yes and it doesn't match but the reason why it doesn't match is you're looking up so the sculpture the sculptor would be looking up so they would make it look good depending on the I didn't know all this

Starting point is 00:13:07 that's interesting I assumed that every one of these sculptures that dude posed naked for the why is that funny you I wouldn't that's how we do it yeah if you were to have someone do a nude portrait of you right now you they would ask you to come in yeah I did not know that no and so when they would when they would do sculptures of fertility know that either right you knew it Jesus they teach in school now or what I'm like I didn't know they're depicting sculptures of fertility you'd have oversized breasts oversized and oversized genitalia because they're showing fertility but here they're showing the you know the beauty of the body. So are you saying too

Starting point is 00:13:47 that all these like paintings and like Renaissance times and stuff like that these aren't like real people posing nude for those photos those paintings? Oftentimes no and if they were they would add things and change things. Interesting. Look at the look at the ancient sculptures on fertility they'd have women with big breasts big hips so what would be a phallic symbol. So what? Okay. Just one with this huge like... So at what point, at what point in time did we evolve and decide to start actually having these nude people stand in front of classes and they paint them?

Starting point is 00:14:16 I think they still did that, but they also added artistic changes or what's the term? I don't know. That where they would, they would change it, right? So they'd have an app. Artistic modification. Maybe, yeah. So like Hercules was based off of what they sell with athletes. How do athletes look when they're,

Starting point is 00:14:34 when they perform well? They tend to look like this, and then the artist would. But I mean, we're speculating, but the point is that during these times, these sculptors did not have pro bodybuilders to look at. They didn't even have guys that lifted weights. They just had gladiators, athletes, and soldiers. And so what they always depicted was,

Starting point is 00:14:54 tends to be what they generally would see, which was developed core muscles. Not like this tiny V shape with the, look like they wore a squeam or whatever. You know, type of deal. Yeah, it's crazy. I know, I know. Yeah, that's wild. I didn't know any of that.

Starting point is 00:15:08 Speaking of fertility and all that stuff, remember I told you guys that, you know, connecting with my 14-year-old, she's like, I told you guys, she's like, oh, there's this show, you know, it's hilarious and I want you guys to watch it with me and it's fun and, you know, bear with me, I know it's cringy and you won't like it, but whatever, and we're watching, right? It's called Love Island, okay? Oh, God. me, I know it's cringey, and you won't like it, but whatever. And we're watching, it's called Love Island, okay?

Starting point is 00:15:27 Oh God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told you it was hard for me because it's pretty inappropriate for my 14 year old daughter. But I'm balancing like- She wants you there to watch. Correct. I mean, that's such a hard dynamic as a dad, right?

Starting point is 00:15:39 Because you want that, but- Inside of your life, you're going like, you should not be, we can't watch it. Then the other side of you is like, she letting me in that's right and allowing me to let me use this are you trying to plant little subliminal you gotta talk about that because I this has to be one it's bouncing a great challenge for all parents especially as they get to that age where you want to have a strong bond trust with your kids,

Starting point is 00:16:05 and if they invite you into something that you don't like or you're not happy with, how you respond is crucial to them coming back to you every again. Otherwise, because I remember being that kid, I'm sure I tried to do some of that stuff with my parents. Mom overreacted. Yeah, overreacted.

Starting point is 00:16:22 Never telling you. Okay, I'm gonna lie about it now, because it's happening and we're doing it, we're talking about it, my friends and I are into it, but now that I know you're that appalled by it, I just was gonna go like, oh yeah, I'll never do that again, you know? Yeah, yeah, I know, because I'm like, okay,

Starting point is 00:16:35 how do I use my influence in the most effective way? Because my instinct, not my instinct, my knee-jerk reaction, I'll say, was to be like, turning this off, and you get no TV and electronics now for a year or something like that right we're done you're not watching anything every day but you know that would backfire I mean she's a good kid she's a really good kid she does well in school you know typical 14 year old challenges but great kids so we're watching it and I'm just like I mean the women on there are just it's

Starting point is 00:17:04 all about sex appeal. The dudes are a bunch of douchebags. They have all these games where they're making out with everybody, rate the best kisser, and then they're jealous, because this is supposed to be my partner, although they met yesterday, and they're making out with everybody,

Starting point is 00:17:18 but somehow I'm jealous of you. And so what we're doing is we're watching it, and Jessica and I are biting our tongues tongues and we're trying to find ways Of like, you know putting things in so it's like oh that you know that poor girl. She's looking for validation Yes from all these kisses, you know, whatever I'll say something like oh that guy like I know he thinks he's acting You know, he's saying he's cool with the fact that this girl really deep down and made out with a bunch of dudes But really it's hurting him right now because I think he might like her. You know, I'm trying to be like that. Yeah, that's actually a good move.

Starting point is 00:17:47 Oh, it's so hard though, dude. It's a good move. Oh, like they had, there was one game where the girls are walking out of, it looked like a private jet, and they're doing this super sexy dance and just cancel the clad and it was like, so there are parts where I'm like,

Starting point is 00:18:01 honey, I gotta fast forward this part, this is really uncomfortable, and she's like, okay, so we'll just, let's go to the end of the game and see who wins. I actually think what you're doing is really, really smart, really effective because you have to know that too, that there's a part of her, especially if she has that relationship bond and trust with her dad, she's watching it. There is a part of her subconsciously that is curious. How does my dad think it is? And by you allowing that space for her to do that,

Starting point is 00:18:28 but then simultaneously also be educating without educating, is helping her learn that, oh, I didn't know that. I'm also getting insight into how my daughter thinks. So there was one game where the people had to go up, so first the girls went up, then the guys went up, and then they told their body count, how many people they slept with, and everybody has to, and then they get judged on it, or rated, or whatever.

Starting point is 00:18:52 In other words, the girl says what her body count is, and then the guy reveals what he originally said was too much. Oh, my body count was 10, and the guy pulls this thing up and says, oh, six is too much, or something like that. They're doing this thing. Now, keep in mind, every contestant on there is in their early 20s.

Starting point is 00:19:08 So it's not like they've been on earth for a long time. And so the women go up first and one girl's like, oh. 30, 40. And my daughter's like, oh. At a 20 year old? Oh, bro. Oh, yeah, some of them were like, I don't know or whatever. So, but what, you know, a couple of girls were like six and the guys were like, wow, that's it. Only six. And then my daughter pipes up. She's like, she's like 22 years old, six. She's been with six guys. That's a lot. How do you do it? Yeah. I'm not, but I'm trying hard not to be like, overdo it. You're like, that's right, honey. Yeah. I'm just kind of like, yeah, I was thinking the, nah, nah, nah. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, huh? And I tried to do the math. I'm like, wow, six serious relationships.

Starting point is 00:19:47 She's 22. How long does she date? You know, I'm trying to do the math with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. But god, these shows, dude. What the fuck? I know.

Starting point is 00:19:55 Yeah, I know it's meant to be shocking and extreme. Quite the social stream, you know? Yeah. Katrina watches those. So I've talked about my trash TV or whatever that I watch. It's my lowest self Yeah, then Jessica and I start like talking shit So I mean it doesn't feel good

Starting point is 00:20:08 So what is it about it because we've talked about this before of like there's there's those times like it has to be and I've connected it to it when I'm not feeling my greatest. It's something about watching people that are degenerates That's why I like I'm, I know it's been like this ongoing joke on the show, like that I used to watch 16 and pregnant when I was sick. For some reason, you'll never catch me watching that any other time, but for some reason when I'd be laid up

Starting point is 00:20:35 in bed, I would watch that show. And I'm like, the only thing I could think of is like, because I feel so horrible at that moment. I'm like, that's not that bad. I could be them. I could be in that situation. And so that, I think, has something to do with, subconsciously, I'm attracted to something like that.

Starting point is 00:20:51 Maybe, right, cause Jessica and I will comment on this. We'll say, okay, this is my lowest self, or whatever. Cause then you're commenting on, like, that person's an idiot, and what do they think? God, they look terrible, and then you catch yourself, like, what am I saying, or whatever. But I'll tell you, there's some, some bright spots watching that show. There, you can see some of them struggle with trying to be what they think is

Starting point is 00:21:14 cool because something inside of them is telling them that this is, this doesn't feel right. Like there's this couple that obviously like each other. Like they actually kind of liked each other and they're trying to act cool while the other person is making out with other people. But you can see inside them that the guy really likes her. And then my daughter's commenting, she's like, this is sad. I think they really like each other. He seems like he actually might be a good guy and he's not like, whatever. And so, those parts come out, which is kind of good, but don't watch Love Island. It's so bad. It's just so funny, because they're gonna select

Starting point is 00:21:46 the most wild and ridiculous people. So like if you're normal. Oh, they're strategically picked. If you're a normal person, you're not gonna make it on the edits. No. So it's kind of like, it's all on your team. No, they 100% strategically pick these people.

Starting point is 00:22:00 I was talking to a friend of ours, remember the lake house I was at. So the girl who owns the lake house, she flips these multi-million dollar homes pick these people. I was talking to a friend of ours, remember the Lake House was at. So the girl who owns the Lake House, she flips these multi-million dollar homes and she's going to be on, I forget what show it is, but they're going to come to her. Oh, an actual show. Yeah, she's going to be on one of those. One of those.

Starting point is 00:22:21 ACTV things? It's like a reality show for like a house flipping and things like that. So I forget the name of it. So the before and after how much they sold it. Yeah, right. And, and of course, even like in a show like that, they, they know that drama and all that stuff sales. So she's doing it.

Starting point is 00:22:36 Her husband is, is playing the role of the husband of the house and a different girl is playing his wife when she's the wife. No way. She's, she's the designer, the person putting the house and they have her husband's actually pretending to be a husband of somebody else. Yes. In the house. Yes. And they're the ones picking it all out. I wish people knew how fake these reality shows are. Oh, they're so fake. They're so fake. Oh, they're totally scinted. You know, it's like, it's like, uh, you ever watch a mockumentary, it's pretending to be a documentary. It's no different than that. They're, you know, it's like, it's like, uh, you ever watch a mockumentary? It's pertaining to be a documentary. It's no different than that.

Starting point is 00:23:07 It's pretending to be a reality. Remember Ben Zorn was on here and he was talking about, you know, that show, bachelor in, in how the first like take where everybody's meeting and getting them drunk, they weren't drunk enough. So they had to shoot the same exact thing the next day. It was like they re hurt. They literally replica replicated it and did the same exact sequence, so they could have like certain shots from the first day to meld with the second day.

Starting point is 00:23:33 The other thing to think about is people that apply for reality shows are actors. They're in the acting space. This is what their agent sent them through. Well, there's also that. So there's two parts to this, right? So then there's that what their agent sent well, there's also that so there's there's like there's two parts to this, right? so then there's the the what the Netflix or the show will will be looking for to try and craft drama to your point And then there's a lot of people that are doing it to get their acting career. That's what it is Yeah, not all of them But there's a lot of them that that in fact in the like that space

Starting point is 00:24:01 There's a lot of people that will hate on that when they find out, when they figure, oh, he's just looking for, you know. They'll ramp their personality up like way high. Yeah, they're trying to build themselves a character and they're trying to get an acting job. What a crappy way to get. So it's like, it's fake from the directors, it's fake from the people that are casting them. Like, it's like, man, it's a whole mess.

Starting point is 00:24:20 It's gotta be the worst way to be famous because at least when you're an actor. And who's worse? We're all sucked into watching it. I know. I know. Well, I mean, you're right. What does that say about us?

Starting point is 00:24:30 You know what I'm saying? Self reflection. Jersey Shore's still doing it, dude. Like, you see that? Oh my God, they were a mess, though. They went too fast. Dude, I was such a fan when that came out. I thought that was the funniest, greatest show ever

Starting point is 00:24:42 when it first came out. And now my daughter watches it and I went back and watched it again and I'm like, oh shit, greatest show ever. When it first came out. And now my daughter watches it, and I went back and watched it again, and I'm like, oh shit, this is terrible. It is bad. This is really bad. It is really bad. Doug, would you look up, I'm curious,

Starting point is 00:24:53 I know Chris Williamson did one of those, and it might have been Love Island. I think it is Love Island too. Chris Williamson. That's in England, it's a British show. Reality show. Is it, look it, it's Love Island it popped right up huh oh he was it was Love Island and to begin a bro the intro to love differently

Starting point is 00:25:10 they come out and they dance and sing oh my god now he did a great job spinning it because he's a really smart he's very smart you know Chris Chris is a very well-reader used it for elevating his other. I wonder how he was on the show if he was douchey. I want to go back and watch it. How different it was. Because we know him, right? I wonder how different he was on the show versus us.

Starting point is 00:25:34 I've heard him share bits of it, because I listened to his show quite a bit. And I've heard him share bits of who he was. And that was a turning point for him in his life. He watched it? Yeah, yeah. He realized, I think even going through it life. Like he watched it. Yeah. Yeah. Like he realized like, I think even going through it, even before he washed it,

Starting point is 00:25:48 I think he talks about how like feeling like douchey and being like, what am I doing? What am I here? Good job. Good job for him. I was just going to say that guy too. I can think of those two, at least using it. Oh, that's right. He was, uh, he's real world. Was it real world? Is that or road rules or one of those? He's a comedian. He was kind of himself anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's he that's a funny part It's like he's just so wacky and left field all the time Like he was always like that, but then he just learned how to like put that on I mean, bro

Starting point is 00:26:17 He was forget comedy. He was made for podcasting. Oh, so his podcast stand-up. Okay. Yeah podcasting comedy I guess is really where it's at. The best. Yeah. So good. Yeah, his comedic timing in a long form podcast to make the, he's like built for the way social media. He comes across like he's not trying.

Starting point is 00:26:36 Like, oh shit, did he just say that? Like, that's just how he talks. And you see, I don't know how many you've watched when he's done like really cool ones with like the Tony Robbins and people like that. He's good. Yeah, he's got a really very authentic and very vulnerable side to him.

Starting point is 00:26:49 Who was it that he had on that? That he talked about, oh, it was the UFC, what's his name? Yeah, and he started crying. He gave him the space. He gave him the space, it was really good. Yeah, no, he is. He's really good. I was gonna say, it would suck to be famous

Starting point is 00:27:03 for a character that people think is actually your personality. you know what I mean? Like if you're on a reality show and you're acting like a douchebag on purpose, but then people think it's real, and then that's how you're famous, is your asshole. You are pointing out, I would say, definitely more than half, if not a majority

Starting point is 00:27:18 of all super famous Instagram people. Yep. Oh yeah. They, so many of them hacked into the algorithm of how to gain attention around a character that's not even really themselves. And tortured now. I don't care how much money they're making or what they've accomplished.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Terrible. I know several personal stories of people that, and they have to, like I know couples that have built their whole thing around their relationship and this, that, they're fighting, divorced, not like, don't even, like, everything they put on the internet is not even real, and they have to keep that facade up

Starting point is 00:27:52 because they've built so many businesses around. That has to be the lowest success rate for relationships is like any of them that have done a show together, like, broadcasted it to the world. Like, how many of those couples have survived? Oh no, that's really especially the like the polyamorous you know like we're yeah we're a sexy couple and we totally get along we love everything and I'm not jealous at all and it's like three years later I saw that just turned out to um what's his name I checked in every once

Starting point is 00:28:20 in a while with his content uh like he's a patriotic guy and Sean Whelan, him and his wife did like a, you know, and they're divorced now. And that just happened. Like they were, like he blew up and was growing like crazy and doing all, and like putting all that out there. And it's, man, it's a-

Starting point is 00:28:39 Did you guys hear, I didn't have any notes on this, so maybe Doug can find it. Did you guys hear about the Swinger Mormon group that were posting on social media? Mormon, which I'm like, how did this even make sense? Wait, yeah, how's that mix? They would get together and they would do anything. Everything was okay so long as they didn't have sex, so I think they did everything else then it got it blew up because one of them left with another person so then they got their their wife I think it was her husband divorced them as a result have you guys hear about this

Starting point is 00:29:13 no no look at the Mormon swinger influencers I want it was like I saw a clip of it and I was like what is going on how does that even make sense so on it so there's a hulu docu series called the secret lives of Mormon wives Is that it swinging sex scandal involving suburban influencer moms in Utah? That's it. That's it Secret lives of Mormon wives and they made rules around it like You know, we're titles Hey, you know what that makes me laugh dude, dude, when people try to be spiritual, and then what they do is they make these rules

Starting point is 00:29:47 that make them feel kind of better. Well, they find the line and then they like, it's this whole thing with soaking and all that. Yeah, soaking. And then you get somebody to come in and just push your hips for you. Somebody else moves you? It doesn't count if I don't move myself.

Starting point is 00:30:00 Where there's a will, there's a way, Sal. It counts. Actually, it's worse. Your friend's holding your hips while you're having sex. Yeah, like how is that any better? Seven other influencer moms. Yeah, dude. I didn't even know that was a thing.

Starting point is 00:30:14 At the cold non-monogamy are becoming more mainstream in Utah. Soon we'll see positive dating. I know. I like the show description. The scandalous world of a group of mormon mom influencers Implodes when they get caught in the midst of a swinging sex scandal that makes international headlines now Their sisterhood is shook to its core faith friendship and reputations are all on the line

Starting point is 00:30:45 The whole polyamorous thing got old, right? So now they're like, how do we make this even more, oh, we're more- Let's go with it. We're also religious. Quaker. Yeah. Mm.

Starting point is 00:30:55 Quaker. Quakers with quail eggs. So sex toys. Do you think- Made out of wood. Do you guys think that- Hey. You gotta sand them real good. Doug, I hate the wood, do you guys think that, Hey, you guys, I hate the time. Sorry. You guys. Okay.

Starting point is 00:31:11 Can you Google Amish sex toys? Is that a real thing? They're carved out of wood. You know, they have to be made by hand. I mean, well crafted for sure. Well, crafts and that thing good because you know, you don't want me, does that exist? It doesn't maybe we got to make beds on the Amish adult stores go franchise What is the real thing? No, no there isn't we're getting Wow, that's interesting Yeah, well anything on the internet, dude. This is insane. What is happening? What's happening in the world?

Starting point is 00:31:47 I was going to ask you guys if you think that, do you think the influencer thing is a period of time right now or a trend right now, and then it will go away and become something that people don't like? Or do you think it's here to stay forever and it's going to continue to grow? I don't know. Because you saw that poll where they're asking everybody in the U S like

Starting point is 00:32:07 the kids, like what they want to grow up to become influencer. And it's like 80% or something influencer. And, and I thought, um, you know, I don't know, like, yeah, to me, I felt like this is kind of a fad that like people are finally going to work their way out of. But even like my son is just like, Oh, you know, I saw my, my good friend, he like films the gymnastic events and he does all these things to the camera and like, and he's just like, that's really cool. And I was thinking about, you know, maybe I could do that. Oh, dad. I'm like, no, that's stupid. I have no tolerance.

Starting point is 00:32:41 You know, I agree. I don't think it's, I think it's It's human behavior celebrity Yeah is always I actually human history I even think that it's going to continue to go so far that the future of television and movies is all influencer based I Like I mean once we die off like the people who cared about the 80s actors and the big names so at, and then now the new generation comes up, they will go watch a movie with their influencer friends.

Starting point is 00:33:10 And if you think about that, the power of getting like five influencers in the same movie, it's like almost guaranteed the movie, even if it's a shit movie, it's almost guaranteed that if you got five influencers that are from different like pockets of people, right? Like you have like a car guy, a shoe person, a sports person. With millions of followers. Yeah, millions of followers. Terrible acting but they have a catchphrase. It's like an easy hack. It's like just throw them all in a movie and then they're going to tell their fans and all their fans are going to at least watch it, at least once. So there's two parts of things I want to add to that. The first one is celebrity has always existed in human history.

Starting point is 00:33:45 Humans have always looked at some people and quote unquote worshiped them. That's always existed. Never going to go away, but here's the spin. I think the future is going to be AI celebrities because I think when AI can make characters that are appealing enough, I think they're going to sell more products,

Starting point is 00:34:00 they're going to influence people more, and that's what people are going to want to look at. So I think humans in the influencer space will be replaced at some point. That's my strong opinion. I don't disagree with that. I think they'll compete with it for sure. They'll compete. Companies are gonna make the best influencers. It's gonna take a while. I was gonna say an example of the first one I've seen that kind of leaned into that a lot was you guys watch Free guy right yeah movie yeah yeah so they had like just a whole host of these

Starting point is 00:34:28 YouTube influencer guys and my kids were geeking out they're like oh that's whatever the hell is nice guy so you know in whatever the fuck this person how did free guy do that's a great example because because it was just it was just like it was also a good movie though. It was a good movie. It was all right. You didn't like it? It was funny. I thought it was good. I thought it was all right.

Starting point is 00:34:48 I mean, it hit all the buttons, you know what I'm saying? Like wild action, comedy, and you just smashed it all. For that generation, for sure. Yeah, I felt like it felt like that. It felt like a goddamn reel the whole time. You know what I'm saying? Like that's what it felt like, just a bunch of reels. Yeah, put together. and yeah, so it definitely

Starting point is 00:35:06 hooks you in and makes you watch, but like, a well done movie, like no. The one movie that recently got me to feel better about movies, because for a while I was like, man, movies suck, nobody's making good movies, was Dune, Dune 2 was really. Dune was the savior of actual cinematic experience. Dune 2 was awesome, so was Furiosa,

Starting point is 00:35:24 I keep trying to tell you guys I'm watching that. Haven't seen The Creator was amazing too. I still love that movie, The Creator. I haven't seen that. Yeah, you have. The Creator? Yeah, The Creator. Oh!

Starting point is 00:35:33 Yeah, the one with the kid that's the AI. That one was so good that if they actually had good actors, it would've been awesome. I know. That was actually a good storyline if they actually had good actors in that movie, not to throw shade on them, I mean, I'm sure there was some that were okay.

Starting point is 00:35:47 And the visual experience was amazing too. I actually didn't watch that. Yeah, because visually it was good. The whole concept was, I thought, interesting. It got me. I'm not really the big sci-fi guy out of you guys. You know what, I actually didn't, I didn't watch it. Would that be a movie you think

Starting point is 00:35:57 that would be fun to watch in my life? You would love? Oh, yeah. Well, does she like sci-fi movies? Fuck, no. And you'd be just ruining it. Well, yeah. So now I can't lie to her.

Starting point is 00:36:05 My wife loved it. She's not like huge. It's just like. Yeah, Katrina watched it with me too. It's got a real emotional pull that's like coming. It's a good angle because you actually feel like this draw towards AI more so than the humans. Because the humans, they show all the flaws.

Starting point is 00:36:20 I mean Katrina hates sci-fi and she watched it. So she's. This is the one where they're trying to save that little robot. Okay, I watched a little bit of it. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of, it gets you thinking like that's an interesting perspective. Like as far as like there's kind of like a handful of like, I don't know, narratives around if AI would like really get this smart, what would happen?

Starting point is 00:36:40 It's one that I think that could very well happen that people don't really think about. And I thought it was displayed well. But the acting was like, okay. The actors were like, okay in it. But great storyline, great visuals, unique story. Oh, by the way, so when we recorded our first episode since you had injured your pec, and I was referring to your bruise on your bicep.

Starting point is 00:37:03 Oh, can we see it right now? Yeah. You didn't even know you were bruised. Look at that. Because, okay, so I kept referring to your bruise on your bicep. You didn't even know you were bruised. Okay, so I kept referring to it and you were like, you were brushing it off. So I thought, oh okay, whatever. You didn't even know. Okay, so did you know that the,

Starting point is 00:37:15 that red light therapy is FDA registered for pain and healing? Oh wow, I mean I'm using it. Oh, on there? Oh yeah, so I'm doing all the things. And let me tell you, it's like, I don't want using it. Okay on there. Oh, yeah, so I'm doing all the things so the and let me tell you I've it's like I don't want to get ahead of myself your BPC and the And then the red light. Yeah. Oh, that's the stack and icing right? So and I've been icing so that is I feel

Starting point is 00:37:37 Significantly better. It's only been how many days four or five days or so big injury Oh, yeah, and I already feel significantly better today than I just did yesterday, day four. Which panel are you using, the Go, the Juve Go, or you have the big body one? No, at my house I have the, what's the one that's called? It's on the stand. It goes into the stand. That's what I have at my house.

Starting point is 00:37:56 The big ones here. What are you doing, 20 minutes on it? Yeah, yeah, like that, even like 15. Just every day? Yeah, after I get out of the shower. That's like the move, you know? Do you notice a difference in pain right away away or is it taking? No, no, it's like one of those things. It's hard to say that the only thing I ever

Starting point is 00:38:09 noticed, I mean the data on it's crazy. The thing I noticed about the juve that I, that like I can see instantly is my skin. Like I actually feel, it almost feels like you went like in a light tanning bed for a little bit. Like I have my, I have a glow to my skin. Sounds weird, but I mean, I can see that, and I can notice that right away. As far as like the healing, recovery properties,

Starting point is 00:38:29 it's so hard to like tell if it's all. It's the Juve Solo 3.0. Doug, how much does that one cost on their site? 1600. Without our discount. Yes. You know how much, by the way, do you know how much red light, so people listening,

Starting point is 00:38:40 if you try to buy red light therapy online, you gotta get the ones that are identical to the ones in studies, because to buy red light therapy online, you got to get the ones that are identical to the ones in studies because there's red light but it's nothing like the ones in the studies. It's not going to give you the same effects. Juve is using the legit red light. If you get legit, legit red light that has the same wavelength. Concentrated wavelength. It is, I mean, it used to be thousands, five, six, seven thousand dollars,, $1,600, when you get the one. Great point. I just had a family member who bought a red light,

Starting point is 00:39:10 and they bought it off Amazon, some random place like that. And I pulled up their website, and I forget how they measure the wavelengths and some of that. Well, you can literally, with a couple Google searches, compare a Juve light, the wavelengths, to all these popular ones on Amazon. And the one, this one that I was comparing to my family member that bought it, that bought

Starting point is 00:39:31 it for relatively cheap, it was on Amazon. The Juve was 32 times stronger and more effective. I said, you have to think about that for a second. You have to use this 30 times as long. Yes, so think about that. If you only need to be in front of the Juve for 10 or 15 minutes a day, multiply that. If you want the same effect from that, you would have to do that 32 times. That's why you spend that much.

Starting point is 00:39:50 That's why you spend a little bit more money on it, because are you really going to spend 32 times the amount of time in front of that red light, just so you could save $100? That's not worth it. And the one that we just quoted was a long, big panel. They have smaller ones that are a lot larger. I like that one. I think it's the one that we just quoted was a long big panel. They have smaller ones that are a lot larger. I like that one.

Starting point is 00:40:06 I think it's the one that I have. You get a good enough shot. Obviously, I love the huge one that we have here. That one's really expensive. And I love that one. That's what we have. It has the big panels. Hits the full body in one shot.

Starting point is 00:40:18 So this one, I sit down on my knees, and I hit on it. And then I turn around and do it like that. So I have to break the body in half because it's not quite, it's not quite tall enough to hit my entire body so. Yeah combined with GHK-CU for skin, okay, you will see ridiculous, like fast. You put GHK on your face so,

Starting point is 00:40:40 and Terra has their cream or whatever, we're not even supposed to talk about them, I'm just saying, you put that on, the blue one, then you put on red light. I mean, within three days. It's like crazy. Well, that's really how red light therapy was most popular in the skincare world,

Starting point is 00:40:58 more than anything else. That's the only place you could get it before. That's where people knew. It would cost them 10 grand. It's been around for a long time. And you would see these like high end, like what do you call it, esthetician or whatever places.

Starting point is 00:41:09 And they would have this technology. And that would be part of the like skincare process for people and facials and things like that. And it's, so it's been around for a long time. I mean, I remember when we first had them on it, we were blown away so much by how much research was out to support like how effective it is. But yeah, no, it's a staple in my house.

Starting point is 00:41:26 Are you guys, I'm not watching the Olympics, but just because of the way they opened and whatever. So just, I'm not gonna watch it. I've watched a few. But there's clips everywhere. And I'm sure by the time this airs, everybody's seen this, because we record ahead of time.

Starting point is 00:41:38 But the pole vaulter that failed because of Dick. He's so famous now because of it. Did you see my guy? No. Oh, so the guy who did this painting. Oh, he did a painting of it's so famous now because of it. Did you see my guy? No. So the guy who did this painting. He did a painting of it. He did a painting of it. No, he didn't.

Starting point is 00:41:50 Yes, he did. He did a painting of it. You gotta look, I forget his, I should shout him out. This guy is Paul Pollard, Dave Pollard. He does like old paintings, same thing, kind of like that. But then he did it so like, you know the frame of the painting, like he's got his nuts over the frame of it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:06 That's so funny. It's so funny. What a shitty way to do it, right? So I saw it because I follow him. I follow the painter. And I was like, why would he paint that? And then I realized it was going viral. Everybody was sharing the clip.

Starting point is 00:42:21 It's just so funny. And you know that, like, I don't know if this is true, or if it was just like, you know, how they get you on like, you know clickbait stuff But apparently he was offered like two hundred fifty thousand dollars to shoot a porn because it's so much attention Yeah, it's like there's the Happen Travis Chapman. Yeah, that's my guy. That's my guy. That's how I saw it first Why would he pay this you know what? Oh my God, this really happened. Okay, you go to the Olympics bragging rights. Just to get to the Olympics, you're a badass.

Starting point is 00:42:51 Placing, of course, you're a badass. But to lose... If I'm going to lose, this is how I want to lose. You have something to brag about. If I'm going to lose, this is the best way to go down. If people remember you for your junk. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? My shit was so big, I'm going to go to the bathroom. You're older now. Oh, you went to the Olympics? What's your limiting factor, my junk? I lost.

Starting point is 00:43:11 Sorry. What do you mean you lost? Couldn't get the package over. I got everything over for you. Couldn't get the package over. You know what I'm saying? I couldn't get the other leg over. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:43:19 It hit the bar, and that was it. Was this you that had the Eiffel Tower facts about it shrinking and growing? OK, what? It grows? Why don Was this you that had the Eiffel Tower facts about it shrinking and growing? OK, what? He grows and shrinks by a significant amount. Why don't you throw that in the card? I'm going to support Travis, because I

Starting point is 00:43:31 think that's such a cool thing. That's the shadow. He does these. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll shout him out today, because he does these iconic pictures. And I just think this will be funny to have a collection

Starting point is 00:43:39 of his stuff when he does this funny stuff. Because you know this, I don't know if you saw yesterday, we had guests in here. Everybody always points to this. They do Cause you know this, I don't know if you guys saw yesterday, we had guests in here. Everybody always points this. Cause the camera, like YouTube, they can't see in here. I've got that famous photo of the girl who's- Justin does the best impression, what did she do? I don't even remember, this is so long ago.

Starting point is 00:43:58 Yeah, you- Oh, I can't remember. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. Yeah, that one. That motherfucker back there is not real. That's the one. That's the one. So he does those paintings.

Starting point is 00:44:09 Shout out to Tiffany. Yeah, and he did this one, and I did not know that really happened. So yeah, I'm not watching the Olympics either, but that was so funny. Cracked me up. Anyway, so you mentioned the Eiffel Tower, so I'll tell you that.

Starting point is 00:44:19 So I don't remember, I looked it up, it's an old note, Justin, but apparently because it's metal, when it's hot and cold, it shrinks and grows by significant size. It's like, I don't know how many inches, but it's a huge amount that actually shrinks. The Eiffel Tower? Yeah, it's made out of metal.

Starting point is 00:44:36 Metal contracts and expands depending on the weather, right, on the temperature. So because, that's why, by the way, railroad tracks, you'll notice the metal doesn't meet completely. They leave space for the metal to come together when it's hot or horrible. Interesting. So how do they deal with, I mean, everything's bolted down

Starting point is 00:44:53 and so isn't that an issue? Like wouldn't that be a problem? Like it would lead to lose. Wow, it can change by six inches. Now consider how big it is, six inches spread out over the whole thing. And they did consider that when they built it. The engineers who built it did consider

Starting point is 00:45:06 allowing for that to happen. Speaking of tall, by the way, we've all seen the world's tallest man in history, right? You know that old picture of that white man with glasses? What, 15 feet or somewhere, 11 feet? No, Jesus Christ. 11 feet? No, my God, no.

Starting point is 00:45:22 Oh, bro, there's, I've been, I've seen the, The tallest man ever recorded? The Nephilim? Yeah, what are you talking about? There's, no, there's a I've been in, I've seen the um. The tallest man ever recorded. Yeah, what are you talking about? There's a, look at that. No, Robert Waddell, he's 8'11". Oh no, I've seen, dude, there's at the wax museum there's a guy that's taller than Aiden. That's the guy right there. He was 11' tall.

Starting point is 00:45:38 Yeah, 8'11". Bro, 8'11' is massive. Maybe that's what the 11 was in the 8'11', not 11'8. Yeah. I thought I had it the other way around. Yeah, for some reason I thought I was out. He's the one that's in the Wax Museum, right? There's a Wax Museum with him.

Starting point is 00:45:51 So he's the tallest man ever recorded in history, besides myths and stuff like that. That's pretty much 9 feet, dude. Bro, 8'11? Think of the tallest pro basketball player. Yeah. Now think of 7'4. 7'4 standing next to him would look small. Yeah, I mean, look, that's, that's Wimby right here. Seven

Starting point is 00:46:07 four. I've never, you guys have seen someone seven foot tall in person. It looks weird. Yeah. Imagine someone almost nine feet tall. That's gotta look so incredibly strange. I always tell people that that's one of the most fascinating things about going to a basketball game and being close to all the players. How big they move? How fast? How big they are because when we watched that on TV you think of people like Steph Curry and these point cards as little guys. Yeah. And it's like he's they would stand out. He is bigger than like 80 plus percent of the population. I mean what's a six three guy is like so

Starting point is 00:46:43 he's taller I mean he's every bit as tall or taller than me. And he looks like this tiny guy on the court. And you think of him as a little dude, a big ass man guard shack. Yeah. Like he's got all the mass and he's like really tall. And then the fact that they can actually do things athletically as well. Because I remember when we were kids, like there was always that kind of tall really, but he was, you know, not athletic, not athletic at all. I mean, tripping over his own feet. Yeah, very goofy. So when you see these, these guys that are seven foot something and they're agile and they're fast

Starting point is 00:47:14 and they, yeah, that's crazy. There's a limit physics. And there's a limit to there's a physics, there's a limit on how tall you can get with our structure because at some point the bone doesn't support the weight or the height and so it starts to be that's why they become awkward and they can't move they're in a lot of pain but that's also you're also your life expectancy is so low too. Organs and stuff are so growth on their pituitary. Yeah so all these super super crazy tall people have giantism yeah they had like a tumor or something on the pituitary just squirting out tons of growth hormone

Starting point is 00:47:46 their entire life. Nowadays they'll identify at a young age and fix the problem. That's Tony Robbins. Yeah. That's like Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins would be like this, right? He would just keep growing probably. But like this guy right here, Robert Wadlow,

Starting point is 00:47:58 they didn't identify, I mean they just let him grow because they didn't have the surgery. 1918 to 1940, so the guy was, he died young for being so giant. Yeah. Only live. Was that 30 something years old or like organ failure at that point? Yeah. Yeah. 32 years, 30 in large heart. Typically is. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's like, isn't that like all that's what's, I mean, I think as a kid you think that you want to be this big giant football player athlete to giant. Well, I mean like not that, but I mean like you look at athletes and you think you want to be these big, giant football player athlete. Not too big, not too giant. Well, I mean, like, not that, but I mean, like, you look at athletes

Starting point is 00:48:25 and you think you want to be these big, giant, but their life expectancy is so low because of- It's also uncomfortable. It's a lot of stress. It's also weird. I remember meeting Magic Johnson, and he's not, how tall is Magic, 6'8"? 6'6", I think.

Starting point is 00:48:38 6'6", maybe? Look him up. Yeah, maybe look him up, so he's not Magic Johnson. I met him, because at the time, he was a spokesperson for 24 hour fitness, so we had this big event, and I won some award or whatever, I got to sit and hang out with him.

Starting point is 00:48:48 He was a tall point guard. And he was so giant, and I remember watching him sit in his chair at 6'9". He was tall, so I remember watching him sit in his chair, and then I asked him, I said, what's it like getting into a car, and he's like, oh yeah, so I mean, think about your car. I move my seat all the way back.

Starting point is 00:49:04 He sits in the back seat to put his legs all the way to get to the steering wheel. You ever get in a sports car? Okay, you got two sports cars. You can't even ride a sports car. I was gonna say, you have two sports cars, you're six one three? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:16 Okay, and getting in, you gotta like squeeze your ass in there. Imagine being six nine. I have to have special seats in mine, so if I had the standard seats that come in those cars I might my head would touch touch their upper roof, right? Yeah, and there's some there's some models that you can't even comfortably drive on six three. Yeah, so yeah six nine You don't even get the experience a lot. I remember shaking his hand to you know, you got I got introduced So when I went to shake his hand and he's just like this big ass And I have big hands I told you guys when. I told you guys, I used to have, I had this book,

Starting point is 00:49:45 I still got it somewhere, I don't know where it's at, packed away somewhere. I had a Michael Jordan book, and it was like a big kind of picture book and stuff, and the opening page is real actual sizes of his hands like this. So you can put your hands up against it, and my tips of my hands come to the bottom of his palm. How crazy is that, dude, that he could just engulf my entire.

Starting point is 00:50:04 He can slap you from across the street. Just real quick. So you know what I think is even crazier when you think about him and like Shaq's are even bigger. Like for me, like when you shoot a basketball, part of it is the way your hand spread and hold the ball. It's like equivalent to almost me shooting like a softball. You know how hard that is to shoot something?

Starting point is 00:50:22 And get good spin and- Yes. Yeah, that's weird. Your hands are that much bigger than the ball to try and shoot that would be so awkward and difficult. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean do it next time you pay attention. If you try and shoot a standard size basketball, then you go grab like a softball and think of it, see if it's easier for you. You know what else is strange for a lot of everyday people? Maybe not as much for us because we're in the space, but pro bodybuilders, pro bodybuilders in peak size.

Starting point is 00:50:48 The first time I saw one was as a, I was in my late teens and I went to, I don't remember where I was, but I met Nasser El-Sombadi who was one of the biggest bodybuilders at the time. Who else did I, I saw Dorian. And to see muscle on a frame like that looked so crazy to me, it was insane. Like the average person sees a pro bodybuilder

Starting point is 00:51:12 and they're just like, that looks weird. I remember the first time I was walking behind Jay Cutler in Vegas, I was out there. He's as white as he is white. So white. That's exactly what I was gonna say. He is literally, that was the exact thing that I thought I was like, oh my,

Starting point is 00:51:24 I was walking right behind him and I'm watching him and he's got like a dress shirt on and stuff and I'm like, dude, he is every bit. He can lay on a side. Yes, he has a square. He's almost like a perfect square. Like he was, every- Most of these guys are pretty short.

Starting point is 00:51:36 Yes. They're like five nine average, I would say. Is that what the average is? I think the average pro bodybuilder is five nine. I mean, isn't that really what made Arnold so special was he was like one of the first six foot, like true six foot? Rarely do they get, like, are they, when they're that tall, it's hard to like fill out and look, you know, the way that you want them.

Starting point is 00:51:51 That's why it's, I think that's what people, like, cause there's a lot of people that critiqued like, you know, the, the Coleman's and the him and they think that, oh, this guy was better. It was like, yeah, well he was 5'9". You have to, you have to give that extra credit to, to Arnold and Coleman because not only do they look crazy and impressive, but they're also much taller. So to fill all that space out

Starting point is 00:52:08 and still compete with the five nine little short guys, like crazy. Yeah, I remember we were at, what was it? It was a world gym and it was, I think it was Nasser, I wanna say, and he was doing a photo shoot and he had a string tank top and he was, you know, they're filming him while he's exercising and we could be there to work out and watch.

Starting point is 00:52:27 And I remember his back, it looked like, it looked like meat was hanging off, you know what I mean, off his lats, like off his back. I remember looking at it in real world and I was like this is. Meat slabs. It just looks crazy. And he was sweating, because he,

Starting point is 00:52:41 one little exercise, he was starting to sweat. Must be so uncomfortable. Even though I tried to get that Did fail more irony right the fact that you say all that then there's a part of you that's like driving towards I'll terrible. It's wild anyway, so shout out. Let's give your guy the shout out. Yeah. Yeah, Travis Chapman. It's Travis Chapman Could you look up his IG? I don't know if it is Travis Chapman is his IG or not So cuz that's where obviously I originally found you can you get that pole vault? Nah, I don't want that one. No I do. I told Doug don't worry. I do. I want to add to that collection. I think I mean one I want to support. Travis underscore Chapman underscore artist.

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Starting point is 00:53:52 They're giving them out all the time. Go check them out. Again, it's zeroshoes.com forward slash mind pump. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Scott from North Carolina. What's up, Scott? How you doing, Scott? How can we help you?

Starting point is 00:54:06 Gentlemen, how are you this morning? Very good Outstanding. Thanks for taking my call. I'll jump right into it. I am baffled by something that I hear you often talk about determining a person's ideal weight I Understand that you know your ideal weight drives how much protein you should have, what your maintenance calories are, if you're cutting, if you're bulking. So if I could, let me give you a little bit of context of my own story, and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I am a recovering CrossFit cult member who spent a decade convinced that lifting weights with velocity was the way. I got so obsessed with crossfit that I was doing two days, I was doing competitions every year, all while doing

Starting point is 00:54:55 a keto diet and these long intermittent fasts from two to five days, because I needed to be lean and light. And at the end of the decade, my body basically screamed if I had a t-shirt, it would say, over-trained, underfed, and constantly injured. That's what I got out of, you know. So I was, though, about two years ago, introduced to Sal, your book, and this podcast, God Bless Bless Her by my sister-in-law, Meredith, who has been a life-changing event for me. Now, at 53 years old, I've put on more muscle, and I lift as much as I did when I was in the military. Thanks to Anabolic, Prime Pro, and now most recently, I've started MAPS 15. I'm benching about 305, squatting 350 or so,

Starting point is 00:55:45 and I'm closing in on a 500 pound deadlift. While also keeping my VO2 max is around 46 to 47. So endurance feels good and at 53, I'm still kicking ass and taking names guys. Feeling really great about that, thanks to the program. So more importantly or just as importantly, you guys have really taught me about health span. So I've been tracking my food on my fitness pal for, I think I just surpassed 4,400 days over

Starting point is 00:56:17 10 years straight. I'm hitting my protein targets every day around 220 grams, which is part of this conversation. I'm a huge fan of ButcherBox, Whole Natural Foods, Sallieryte, Paleo Valley. It is the greatest tasting protein powder I've ever had. It's donuts every morning. I am organic, non-GMO, super clean. I am avoiding all processed foods, avoiding sugar. I get seven to eight hours of sleep,

Starting point is 00:56:45 making sure I've got my brain FM and I got my aura ring tracking it. I bought a treadmill to get 10,000 steps a day. I mean, I work with a functional medicine doc to make sure that all my numbers are good, so everything from resting heart rate to testosterone is absolutely on par. I feel like I'm doing all the right things,

Starting point is 00:57:06 but I still have no idea how much I should actually weigh. And the real insanity of it is, I've been all over the board. When I was in CrossFit, I dropped all the way down to 205. And at 205, my wife said to me, you look like you're sick. You look ill. I had 7.8% body fat, which I did on the dunk test, but I was scrawny and I could barely

Starting point is 00:57:32 bench 185 pounds. At 6'3", the BMI tells me I should weigh somewhere around 190 pounds and we all know what total garbage that is. When in the military I hovered between the 215 and 235 mark but it was based on training activities, it was based on deployment schedules, it's just it was all over the place and now I sit somewhere in the 255 to 260 range based on how much water I've had that day with somewhere between my winning scale says 13 to 15% body fat. Again, always fluctuating. My goal is to get down to somewhere between 10 and 12% body fat and just add more solid

Starting point is 00:58:14 bulk still at 53. But at the end of the day, what I'm really still trying to figure out is what is a healthy weight for a tall, big guy? I'm all over the place. Cause wouldn't those numbers then represent how much protein, what would be considered a cut, what would be considered a bulk? Gentlemen, I'm open. Tell me, help me out brothers. It's a really good question.

Starting point is 00:58:39 Now what we refer to as target weight, we typically don't say something like ideal weight because ideal weight could be what? Like ideal weight for running, ideal weight for power lifting, ideal weight for longevity, lifestyle. I mean, it could vary. I think what you wanna look at is, how do I feel?

Starting point is 00:59:00 You're taking a lot of tests, so you're doing all the markers. You see that your hormones are good, inflammatory markers probably good, everything feels good. So really, you wanna weigh that out with quality of life. Is your quality of life great? And then I wouldn't overthink it, because you're doing so much, you're tracking so many things.

Starting point is 00:59:17 The last thing I think you need to do is also worry about where your body weight is at. Your body fat percentage is great. I think you're actually, yeah, I think you're actually right where you should be. I mean, there's nothing wrong too, by the way. If you were my client, you said, yo, Adam, let's make a run at 10%.

Starting point is 00:59:33 I wanna see abs like this, and you have a goal like that? And I say, sure, let's dial it in calorie-wise a little bit. Let's get there just to say we did it. But I actually think you're probably hovering right around an incredible weight and body fat percentage for you. For overall strength, performance, health, kind of the whole sphere, as we start to go lower in body fat,

Starting point is 00:59:55 you might get more shredded looking, but will you be as strong? Will you feel as good? I don't know, that would be a good question to ask. Yeah, I mean, let me paint a scenario for you, right? So let's say somebody came to me and they're like, I weigh 200 pounds and here's all the things I'm doing. And as we're talking I notice that all the things that this individual is doing is actually bringing them stress. Their quality of life is not where it could be because they're constantly

Starting point is 01:00:21 pushing their body weight to be at a particular number. So that would be another thing to weigh out, right? Is quality of life, like, you know, ideally, is there a longevity body weight that would give somebody the best longevity? Yes, but what factors into that is also quality of life. This is why you see studies that show that sometimes things that aren't traditionally quote unquote healthy seem to improve people's health. There may be something else at play like drinking a glass

Starting point is 01:00:50 of wine might be good for you because you're with friends and it's improving your quality of life, it's helping you relax. Whereas somebody else that might be masking something and they're using it to kind of run away. So you gotta weigh all those things out and then kind of sit somewhere around somewhere around there and again ideal weight can be different depending on what you're looking for. If you feel good, you feel

Starting point is 01:01:12 healthy, blood markers, everything looks good, quality of life is great, you're fine. That's the main thing. I mean if you feel strong, you feel like you know your joints are supported, there's pain free. I think the only thing, if you're on that trajectory, that I would be concerned is if it starts to impede on your sleep and any kind of apnea because of your body mass overall. But other than that, I think everything else,

Starting point is 01:01:38 if it's good, keep going. I also think it's important to point out that there's this myth around like that We have this ideal body weight In fact, I think what it sounds like you've kind of done for the last decade plus of this a little bit up and down This is very this mirrors very similar to my my health and fitness journey is like man I've been everywhere from a hundred and eighty nine ninety pounds all the way up to two hundred and forty five and everything in between and I've been I've been doing 90 pounds all the way up to 245 and

Starting point is 01:02:04 everything in between and I've been healthy and strong versions of all those weights and I actually think it's very healthy for you to kind of move ebb and flow like that in a reasonable number. Obviously, it's not healthy to go from,

Starting point is 01:02:16 you know, losing 50 pounds and losing 25 of that muscle or extremely putting on 50 pounds and 50 or 25 of that's fat in short periods of time, but this kind of natural season of your life where you're like, Hey, right now I'm, I'm pushing numbers and I'm trying to get stronger. And so, okay, I carry a little bit extra weight. Maybe you go, Oh, you know what?

Starting point is 01:02:33 Like I have this a run I want to do, or I want to do this bike trip with my buddies and we're going to, I'm going to lead out a little bit and, and build my cardio endurance. And so you drop down 15 pounds and get a little bit lighter. Like I think you're in a really healthy, good place right now with even the ebb and flow of up and down a tiny bit. I think based off the season of your life and where, and back to Sal's point, the quality of life point

Starting point is 01:02:56 is that what is important to you right now? That's why I love, I mean, you would be a fun client to have where you got this stuff so dialed in, I would have fun with you and just be like, hey, what do you feel like doing in the next two to three months and make it a goal and I think that's healthy you know I think there's nothing I don't think there is a set ideal weight for you it was like it means or what would be the ideal weight or set or body fat percentage for your

Starting point is 01:03:19 particular goal right now because I think everything you're doing is is incredible yeah and you know you you track so many different things Scott. The question I would ask is are you okay when you stop tracking? Are you okay when you go on vacation and you turn everything off or does it cause you stress? If what you're doing, then you're okay. You know if you're doing so much sometimes it's like it becomes a stress right? Somewhere people become orthorexic with everything but if you're okay with that you feel good like I wouldn't even you Sometimes it becomes a stress, right? Where people become orthorexic with everything. But if you're okay with that, you feel good.

Starting point is 01:03:47 I wouldn't even, you don't even need to weigh yourself. Who cares what the scale says if you feel good. You know, and funny enough, I don't even really care what I weigh. I just wanted it to make sure, so think about the numbers. If I'm 220 versus 250, we always talk about one gram of protein per body weight. So I'm wondering to myself, am I getting enough protein? Am I in a cut versus a bulk? Because my maintenance calories, when I did the dunk test and the DEXA, both of the guys

Starting point is 01:04:15 said, yeah, you should be around 2,300 calories a day. And I felt like, man, that feels awfully low for a guy. And that's my size. But then I don't know if I'm bulking or cutting or if I'm just maintaining. And I would like to put on more bulk simply because, I mean, that's lifetime Kevlar, guys. I mean, muscle, as we all know, defeats against dementia and Parkinson's and cancer and all these other things. And my goal is to not just continue to be an ass kicking dad. I still work with law enforcement. I still do this all over the country. It's important to me.

Starting point is 01:04:47 But eventually that grandpa that everybody looks up to because I can rip the door off a tank. I mean, that's what I still wanna be until I'm 70, 80, 90, whatever it may be and continue this longevity in this health span. So I appreciate that. I guess two other points if I could say, Adam, thanks for your offer to train me, I accept. So

Starting point is 01:05:06 we'll talk about that after the call. That's fantastic. So also, I think it was you and my wife who will sure will watch this will never let it go that you actually said I'm overthinking it. Because she's only been telling me that for 27 years. Thank you for confirming what she has been saying for so long. But guys, I think at the end of the day, I think that's what I'm really trying to do is just understand, you know, how do you stay like this? And what are those extra things, you know, to put on extra bulk

Starting point is 01:05:36 to try to lower this or that, just the number of self was really more about the formulas that we talk about how much protein, how much carbs, you know, the macros, and then everything that we talk about. How much protein, how much carbs, you know, the macros and then everything that goes behind it. Yeah, even if you were just trying to build, I mean, 220 grams at 250 pounds of body weight, you know, your body fat, that's still enough. Yeah. That's still plenty of protein. Roger that. Yeah, and at that point when you're eating that much protein, it's like, okay, do I feel like I'm stuffing myself? Does it feel like my digestion's off? Do I feel like I'm stuffing myself? Does it feel like my digestion's off?

Starting point is 01:06:06 Do I feel like I'm constantly pushing myself to eat more? Or am I hungry? Those are the questions you wanna ask yourself. And if you feel good, everything feels balanced. It's not stressed. You're not stressed out over all this. You're doing great. I even think that your desire to wanna solve this like this

Starting point is 01:06:29 is still even some of your old tendencies of wanting to push. It's like, I think you are, I think you're doing great, bro. I think you're like, and it would be fun, like I said, to, hey, let's get shredded for a while. And we go into a calorie deficit and get really lean and know that, hey, we might lose a little bit of strength on the way there. But hey, you got some cool abs for a while. Then you get down there and you go, you know what? I miss ripping 500 pounds off the floor. Let's go back the other way. And I just think that's a really healthy, and then, hey, let's not even track for the

Starting point is 01:06:54 next six months. Let's just eat when you're hungry, make good choices, stay consistent in the gym. Tell me how you feel. Like, I mean, if you were my client and we were kind of going through this journey together, I would be encouraging you to do all those things. I'd be encouraging you to challenge yourself body fat percentage for a little while, then I'd encourage you to come back the other way, then I'd encourage you to like, don't even pay attention to anything and let's just enjoy balance of life. Like, and you're by the way, doing that, you're going to get exactly what you want. If you want

Starting point is 01:07:21 to be the rip strong, rip the door off a tank grandpa, you're doing it. You're doing exactly that. And if anything is going to set you back or hurt you is actually to like overthink it, overdo one of those things. Try to push the numbers so hard that you're ignoring signals that it's too much, you know, or cutting so hard that you're not, you're ignoring signals of sleep and other stuff. Like I think what you're doing is going to give you the goal you want. Yeah. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate that. So one more note, if I could add it. And guys, I say this with all, all the sincerity I have, the message that you guys bring around in the fitness space and

Starting point is 01:08:00 really just in the general population, the importance of physical health I think is equally matched with what you guys talk about from emotional, mental, and spiritual health. And, you know, you help people really, we talk about find and move with the purpose. I've shared your podcast with countless friends, my own kids. I don't think what you guys do can be stressed enough. So I applaud all of you gentlemen, all four of you for really making a difference. And what I believe is leaving a legacy to eventually millions of people that

Starting point is 01:08:32 recovering Crossfitters as well as veterans and everybody else. I think it's, it's huge. So really, really appreciate that. Thank you so much, Scott. Hell of a compliment, Scott. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate that. Roger that, June. Bye bye. Yeah, cool guy. That dude's going to be a bad-ass. Yeah you so much, man. Appreciate that. Roger that, June. All right. Cheers, guys. Take it easy. Bye bye. Yeah, cool guy. That dude's going to be a bad-ass grandpa.

Starting point is 01:08:48 Yeah, well, he's doing all right. He's doing good. He's doing it. It's the overthinking aspect. Totally. And that's why I made that point about this is your old CrossFit tendencies of wanting to push and hit goals and like that.

Starting point is 01:08:59 You're killing it, bro. But the whole idea. I see someone like that at 53. I'm only 42. That's inspiring to me. I want to like that at 53. I'm only 42. That's inspiring to me. I want to be you, guy. I'm the one sitting on the podcast telling everybody else what to do,

Starting point is 01:09:10 but I would love to be right there at this age, that kind of muscle, that kind of strength, that those kind of feedback numbers on my testosterone, on my sleep, I mean, the dude is hitting it out the park. Yeah, but the whole, you know, the ideal body weight conversation has to be followed up by for what, right? You know?

Starting point is 01:09:27 It depends. Yeah, I know my ideal body weight for a triathlon would be very different than my ideal body weight for, you know, strength training or my ideal body weight for just longevity, they'd all be different. So when it comes to ideal body weight, it's like what you're looking for. And then-

Starting point is 01:09:43 It's a feel thing. And quality of life is, you know, that's a very important one. I mean, you could look at somebody and say, Hey, you know what? You ride a motorcycle, stop doing that. It's dangerous. You'll definitely live longer if you don't do it. I mean, will they?

Starting point is 01:09:54 Maybe, obviously if they don't crash. Yeah, but will they have a happier life? But yeah, so, so it's not, it's not an easy conversation. It's, it's quite nuanced. You have to balance quality of life with things like longevity and health and all those other things. And sometimes we do things that don't make us necessarily physiologically healthier,

Starting point is 01:10:13 but they make us emotionally healthier and vice versa. And that's okay too. Well listen, ideal body weight is followed by desired outcome first. So what is your desired outcome at this period of time, at this season of your life, then there's an answer for ideal probably body weight for you. So to your point like if right now we're in the season of our life where it's like hey

Starting point is 01:10:31 you know what my buddies and I want to challenge ourselves and run for a marathon. I've never done that. That's obviously not something healthy to do all the time and probably his body weight he'll go to he'll lose some strength but that's okay that's not his current goal. His current goal or desired outcome is I want to do something like this. Therefore, we're going to get to your ideal body weight and we'll figure that out trying to get ready for this run. And so I think it's so important to ask yourself, well, what is your current goal?

Starting point is 01:10:55 And I think also there is this myth around like there's an ideal body weight for you as an individual and you kind of try and stay there your whole life. Like, I don't know. I think it's healthy to stretch your capacity at both directions. Well, evolutionarily it doesn't make sense to stay at the same body weight all the time. I don't think anybody did. You know, there were famines, there were feasts. Yeah, so you were heavier sometimes, lighter sometimes. Obviously, like you said, there's a range. You're not going extreme, but I think staying the same all the time is, I mean,

Starting point is 01:11:24 that's okay too, but you're probably up and all the time is I mean, that's okay, too But you're probably up and down a little bit depending on what you want out of your life is is probably better Our next caller is Margie from Pennsylvania. Hi Margie. How can we help you? First of all, I know that everybody gets on here and thanks you but I want to do the same because you change a lot of lives Including mine. So thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay. So I'll just go right into my question. Um, I am 53 years old. For years I have overtrained.

Starting point is 01:11:55 I didn't realize it at the time until I started watching you guys. Um, I lifted and did cardio six days a week, as well as getting approximately 15,000 steps a day anywhere from 14 to 20 After starting to listen it after starting to listen to mind pump last March I dropped the cardio completely other than walking hiking paddle boarding those kinds of things and I've been running maps programs ever since then I've run anabolic, strong, anabolic, advanced, aesthetic in that order, and then I was doing old-time strength. I continue to get anywhere from 14 to 18,000 steps a day. I

Starting point is 01:12:34 felt my best during anabolic advanced. My stomach was completely flat all day long. I'd wake up, it was flat, I'd go to bed, It was flat. I felt great since doing aesthetics I Feel as if my stomach's just getting bigger and bigger. I mean other things getting bigger is okay stomach not so much And I continue to eat the same thing every day. I'm a creature of habit and I rarely eat anything out of my regular routine So I'm confused as to what's happening. I'm five five was hovering around 126 pounds when I was doing anabolic advanced I got down to about 121 and not dieting. I was eating the exact same thing So also eating the exact same thing I got up to about 127 128 pounds during aesthetic and I

Starting point is 01:13:27 Didn't understand why I'm eating around 16 1700 calories a day about 157 and protein 168 carb 43 fat so What I don't understand is Why am I gaining weight, belly fat when I'm not doing anything different as far as my diet? The only thing I was doing was a different program. So I rarely ever get on the scale, but I did only because I was like, what is going on

Starting point is 01:14:01 with my belly? So can you help me? Yeah, so do you know for sure that this is body fat, not bloat? So I just wanna start there first. I would think it's inflammation. No, I do not know that. But I guess just, you know,

Starting point is 01:14:17 with the increase on the scale, I just assumed. Well, I didn't assume anything really other than my belly looks bigger, there's a higher number on the scale. I didn't really think bloat. I don't know. Okay. Any changes in digestion?

Starting point is 01:14:36 Was not going to the bathroom as well. Okay. So, that'd be the first place that I would look. The first place I would look would be, are you having digestive issues? Because if you notice it in your belly, and I mean, it could be body fat, but it could also just be bloat or issues with digestion. So that would be one of the first places that I would look.

Starting point is 01:14:58 Any changes anywhere else, like sleep, stress, anything like that? Not really, no. Okay. Yeah, the first thing I would look at is digestion. The second thing I would look at would be the workout programming. MAPS Aesthetic has a lot of volume,

Starting point is 01:15:13 tremendous amount of volume. And for most people, it's too much volume. Especially if you're following up a relatively intense program like MAPibolic Advanced. Maps Antibolic Advanced is lower volume but it is it is up there in terms of volume and intensity. Aesthetic is near the top when it comes to all that. Typically when you would want to follow a program like Antibolic Advanced you'd want to follow it with a program that's gonna give you a bit of a break with intensity and with volume. So like anabolic would have been a good

Starting point is 01:15:48 follow-up, a nice bridge would have been even Maps 15 or symmetry, and then you could go to a higher volume program. But for most people aesthetic, especially if you're following up another higher volume or high intensity program, is just gonna be too much. That can also cause digestive issues by the way. If you're training too much or too hard for your body it can cause issues with digestion. But I would look there first. I would look at digestion first, see if there's anything to do with your diet that'll improve your elimination or bowel movements, see if that makes a difference. Listen, I've had clients that this has happened to before

Starting point is 01:16:26 where they feel this way and they swear to me that their diet is exactly the same and everything else, everything's the same, the only difference is the training that we're doing right now. And it absolutely can be just a systemic inflammation and that inflammation is gonna retain and hold more water and it's gonna make you feel like you've put body fat on and simply, and an easy way to test that.

Starting point is 01:16:46 So one, you could dive into it, Sal's trying to figure out, you know, parsing out things in the diet. You could also dramatically reduce the training intensity and volume. And if you instantly feel better within a week or two, there's your answer. Is that you're just too much.

Starting point is 01:17:00 The body is, the body's trying to recover and it's at this constant state of inflammation. That constant state of inflammation will also retain and hold water which will also give that look or feel like you have extra body fat on you. Especially if you think all other variables are controlled and the same, that would be the easy way just to test that. And what you may be finding out is that either one, too much, too intensive programs back to back is a little too much for you, or that something more like an anabolic type of programming is more ideal for you. Do you have

Starting point is 01:17:31 Maps 15? I'd love to throw that to you. That'd be a great thing to transition into right now. No, that is one I don't have. So I'd love for Doug to throw that to you. And if you were my client, I'd throw you on that for the next couple of weeks. I'd probably take three days off in a row at least. And then I'd go into maps 15 and see how you feel. And if you notice an increase in performance right away and you start to notice that the, you know, the weight comes down a little bit and you're, you don't look like you're, you'll know when your strength, if you get stronger, you know that you're, you're just, I mean, just to give you,

Starting point is 01:18:01 just to give you some context, Margie, if I follow MAPS Aesthetic, and I'm a little younger than you were right about in the same age group, but I'm also on testosterone and peptides, and I've been working out for a long time, Aesthetic is too much volume for me. I don't follow that program because it's just too much volume.

Starting point is 01:18:19 The only way I would follow Aesthetic would be if I followed up a program like MAPS 15, you know the advanced version, everything was perfect and then I'd follow it until I felt like oh I'm overdoing it and then I would come off but it's a lot of volume and that was Adam's pro physique competitor routine. Oh yeah okay. I was afraid at the beginning but then like with the super sets the last phase I was rough. It's a lot. Yeah yeah especially if you're noticing you're not getting stronger right at the beginning, but then with the supersets, the last phase, I was rough. It's a lot.

Starting point is 01:18:46 Yeah, yeah, especially if you're noticing you're not getting stronger, and you're feeling kind of worn down and fatigued. And what Adam's saying is true. I mean, when you over train and inflammation goes up, inflammation holds water as well. And so the weight can change a bit. You can even lose muscle because of something like that.

Starting point is 01:19:04 And it can even affect digestion Although it can be affected by just simply Overdoing on the body and you know sometimes too it could like sometimes a program could be okay But just in the context of where I'm at in my life You know not getting as good asleep as I was before you know get a lot of stress going on at work Combined with that much, and then I'll just be inflamed. I'm holding water, and I'm so simply, this is why I love and encourage people to have like, definitely have MAP 15 along with some of these other

Starting point is 01:19:33 programs they have, is so that when you think you notice something like that, easy test is just a transition over into that program for a couple weeks, and if you see positive benefits from our way, it's almost a clear cut indication of, Oh, I was just overdoing it. I'll tell you what too, Marguerite. I mean, considering all the exercise you're doing, you're, you know, you're following maps aesthetic, high volume, you're walking 15, you know, 14 to 18,000

Starting point is 01:19:56 steps a day and you're averaging about 16 to 1700 calories a day. Um, I I'm, I'm positive that you're over training and under eating. Positive. I mean... Well that was a question too. I wondered about my calories and what you thought about that. Yeah, you're still in that space. You know, I would go Maps 15, do the advanced version, the barbell version, and you can go ahead and keep your calories where they're at as your strength goes up, increase your calories. So if you start to get stronger, bump your calories a little bit and keep doing that and here's what will happen.

Starting point is 01:20:27 You'll probably get leaner. Hey, build muscle. Hmm. Yep. I did. Um, yeah, I'm a member of the private forum and, um, I did find a coach, um, through the private forum on there that since I sent the question in that I did hire and, um, he's been great and

Starting point is 01:20:45 and has said a lot of the same things as far as like upping my calories thought it was too low shout out to Max Hansen he's been fantastic awesome so yeah so that's a great resource as well that private forum is fantastic and he's been very helpful thank you I appreciate that. I just, you know, you question it and you think maybe I should raise my calories but you're not sure and I thought, well, let's ask the pros. Yeah, I would both drop volume and then slowly increase your calories and you'll know, you'll know within a week or two you'll just feel stronger. Probably within a couple workouts you'll feel stronger. Since you're in the, oh yeah, you should know this right away.

Starting point is 01:21:25 That's why I say it a week or two. Take a few days off first, and then go back and then start working out. By workout three or four, you'll know, you'll be, oh man, I'm feeling strong. Yep. Fantastic. All right.

Starting point is 01:21:36 Okay. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for calling in. Yeah, check in with us on the forum, Margie. I wanna hear how it goes. Will do, okay, thank you. All right. Got it.

Starting point is 01:21:44 Yeah, the trap that fanatics fall into is, I'm doing good, I wonder if I could do better. Yeah. That's the trap. How much more can I squeeze in there? Yeah, wait, maybe I do more. Maybe I could do more. I'm really enjoying this.

Starting point is 01:21:58 Let me do more. And then when things- And the body reacts. And then when things halt, when progress halts, it's a tough pill to swallow. I was feeling good before. I'm doing all this great stuff, like what's going on? And then you just keep at it until it becomes too obvious.

Starting point is 01:22:14 Well, you know, and that was the one factor that she knew that changed. Everything else was pretty consistent. And so it's like, I mean, it's not necessarily super obvious, but it's pretty much the first place I would go if I was gonna manipulate maybe reduce it again to Adam's point with that But you know, that'll be a little more clear. Like this is really the what's Infusing this response from my from my body. Yeah, I would I would I would bet my savings on it

Starting point is 01:22:40 The fact cuz her that many steps she also remember she was paddle she was paddle boarding, hiking. She's an active person. Very few people could do that many steps, aesthetic, and that low of calories to progress. It just not gonna happen. You're surviving at that point, and what's happening is that the body is trying to tell her that, is inflamed, and you're continuing to push through is just sending that louder signal,

Starting point is 01:23:03 and so yeah, simply, but it's great though, is it's an easy test. It's an easy way to course correct. But you know, this happens so much, this is just one level or one end of the spectrum, but and I say this all the time on the podcast, it's one of the most difficult things to figure out, balance out and measure,

Starting point is 01:23:21 because in everything else in our life, the more we put into it, the more we get out of it just Name anything else. I know it's it sounds seems illogical like it. Yeah Isn't this working you just have to read you have to reframe like it's it's still true The more you put into it the more you get out of it But the more you put into it doesn't mean the more workouts It doesn't mean the sure less cow, it could be more discipline with tracking. Yeah!

Starting point is 01:23:47 It could be more discipline with sleeping better. The more self-awareness, like know yourself. If you ever have a tendency to over train like I do, you know what it reminds me of? I was playing with my son last night with one of his radio control cars. You ever notice on the bottom of them, there's a little knob or a little thing

Starting point is 01:24:03 that you can move to help the car turn more right or left and you adjust it depending on if you buy the car you drive it and it tends to veer to the left, well you move the thing to the right a little bit to keep it straight. Know your tendency, if you tend to veer towards over training well then that's probably what you're going to do, that's probably where you're going to move so constantly stay ahead of it, move the other direction. A big variable in this also is the calorie and the other movement too because if she was maybe eating

Starting point is 01:24:28 2,500 calories and she wasn't doing all this other stepping and activity Maybe maps aesthetic wouldn't be that overdoing it But in the context of low calories all the other activity and aesthetic is just too much Our next caller is Kara from Iowa. Hi Kara. How can we help you? Hey, how you guys doing? We're doing good. All right. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:24:48 Well, I was on the show in 2022 about a failed bulk. I took your advice. I did a bulk. I got over my mindset of, oh, I need to be skinny. And then I tried to cut last year for my wedding, and it was a hot mess to say the least. I messed up my hormones for some reason. I was having mood swings.

Starting point is 01:25:07 I was irritable. My skin was breaking out. Not a great time. So I stopped it, went back into a bulk. And then this year I decided to try to cut again for summer. I wrote this question a few months back. So I kind of just did a protocol. I assumed you guys would suggest,

Starting point is 01:25:22 but I'd love to hear what you have to say now about how to go through a cut without messing up your hormones. Yeah, good question. All right, there's a few things that would cause some of the side effects or effects that you noticed with that original cut that you did before your wedding. And some of the signs, again, to repeat them, mood swings, irritability, you tend to see digestive issues, you tend to see skin issues. Those are signs that your hormones are a little off.

Starting point is 01:25:50 Sleep. And there's a few things that, there's a few common offenders with that, okay, especially with young women. One could be you're getting too lean, okay, hormones do get negatively affected when body fat percentage drops below a certain point. This is true for both men and women. It's

Starting point is 01:26:09 a different number for men than it is for women but oftentimes if a woman drops down and gets into the teens she starts she can start to notice issues with hormones. The second common offender is just an over accumulation of stress. This is probably where I point to what happened with you Getting married is very stressful getting ready for your wedding having people look at you. I'm gonna make this huge commitment Oh my god, and then on top of it. I'm gonna do this crazy Diet because I need to look a particular way breakouts for

Starting point is 01:26:39 Skin breakouts for weddings are very common. I'm sure you know this but you know Skin breakouts for weddings are very common. I'm sure you know this but you know You see women talk about this all the time and the third one is your essential macros are not high enough protein and fats Typically it's fats so you'll see young women will get on these diets and they're just not eating enough fat to support the hormones And then they'll see those hormone imbalances. So if your stress is appropriate, you're not getting too lean so you're doing everything right, you're not over training, you're not under eating, you're getting enough macros, you're doing your strength training, then you typically don't see those types of issues. So I'd love to hear though what you did this time and how you felt this time. Yeah, so this time so I started at about

Starting point is 01:27:24 2350 calories. that was like my bulk calories. And so I decided a I wasn't going to do five days at the gym. So I run booty by Brett after you guys had him on the show. I'm like, okay, I can trust him. And I've loved his programming. So I do that right now. And I was doing the five days where you do three lifting days, and then two are like kind of bodyweight and band days. So I took out those two bodyweight band days just did walking on those two days. And then I've always been really big on sleep. I have to get eight hours. I'm very anal about it. I'm weird about sleep and everyone makes fun of me. So I've been doing that. And then I kind of slowly took my calories down just to see how I would react. Because if I had a bad reaction, I was like, okay, we're bumping them back up.

Starting point is 01:28:07 I'm not going to do that. So I went down to about 1900 at first. Once I got comfortable there, kind of stopped seeing results. I went to 1800 and then just recently to 17. I want to get a little more lean, but I don't know if I should drop my calories any farther. I don't feel hungry. Like I feel fine and energetic. Little sleepy sometimes, but it could just be I'm

Starting point is 01:28:28 changing jobs within my company right now. So I'm a little stressed out from that. But yeah, I've been getting results, but I want to be leaner even though I know my body fat probably is at a point where I don't need to be leaner. Do you know what body fat percentage you're sitting at? Roughly 15, 16. Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean. You're funny lean. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:49 So you're going to start to tap into or you're going to start to, you're dipping your toe into the unhealthier body fat percentages now. The leanest that I like to get that I would have female clients get to, and it wasn't common, this isn't common. 15% is very lean for a woman. It's so it wasn't a common occurrence that I had, but if I did have a female client that was really hardcore, I typically wouldn't get her low, wouldn't let her get below 15, cause that's, that's almost always when you start to see,

Starting point is 01:29:19 uh, hormone issues with estrogen, progesterone, testosterone really starts to plummet and women with, so I think at this point, you're probably better doing a slow reverse diet, which incidentally might actually make you a little leaner initially because of the muscle gain. Plus your calories are already at 1700. I think that's probably as low as I'd want someone like you who's strength training like you are. So I mean, you can try and get leaner, but like I said, now you're starting to get into the like, well, now I'm sacrificing to get into the like,

Starting point is 01:29:45 well, now I'm sacrificing health for, you know, this body fat percentage. And there's ways for you to test that and then, you know, just don't commit to low calories for a long period of time. Do it for a week or two, see how you feel. And if you start to see negative effects, get back up. If you feel fine, then, you know, go ahead, stretch it. But you, I mean, a little bit of context too,

Starting point is 01:30:05 not that it matters what other people are at. My entire career of managing trainers, my fittest female trainers manage between 15 and 19% body fat. That's just like the fittest of the fit trainers that worked for me for a decade, that was like already like the leanest would be 15. Now it doesn't mean they didn't get ready for a show sometimes and get pressed

Starting point is 01:30:26 those boundaries but we know that's unhealthy to maintain that. So you're already in a very lean healthy place for your size, your age, your weight, everything is in a good place but doesn't mean you can't test that but just be be mindful as you go into that and pay attention to those signs and then reverse back out of it if you start to notice anything negative from it, that would be my recommendation. What, what are your, what are your big reasons for wanting to get leaner? Do you have any specific, is it just for fun or do you like, you know, I like the way it looks, I want to see what it feels like.

Starting point is 01:30:57 I like the way it looks. I feel like I don't look like I work out and I just want people to like, know that I work out, like show off my arms and stuff And then I tend to hold body fat on my stomach and it's something I get self-conscious about so I kind of wanted to see How lean and fit I can get my stomach pretty much the goal is in a few years I want to be pregnant have a kid and whatnot and I want to get like just super fit right now So then when that does happen, then I'm good to go and I'll like hopefully have a great body afterwards too. If I were to ask your husband and your friends and if I were to ask them hey does it look

Starting point is 01:31:33 like Kara works out what would they say? They'd probably say yes because like some of my co-workers will be like oh dang your triceps popping like dang thank you I love that or like things like that but obviously in'm still like, Oh, I still want to like be a little stronger, like look like I'm a little bit stronger and leaner and things like that. Well, I'll tell you what'll make you, what'll make you happy. What'll actually make you happy is if you stop, if you work us more on the head part and not so much on the body part. Cause I don't think it's the body that needs to change.

Starting point is 01:32:02 If you're sitting at 15% body fat and you're following structured strength training, and I can't see you, but I can kind of see your upper body. You look like you work out just because I can tell. I try to. Yeah. I think it's the head part that you need to work on because here's what's going to happen, Kara. You're going to keep chasing this thing.

Starting point is 01:32:22 You'll never find it. As far as being fit and healthy to have a baby, you're actually too lean Yeah, even to I mean lots of women get pregnant at 15% body fat But ideally you probably want to be closer to 20 if you're trying so you're already beyond you're beyond You know what you just said was a big goal for you and to be an object look to be quite objective Here's what ends up happening to most women when they go below 15% they start to sacrifice aesthetics Okay, that's the truth because what starts to happen is you start to look your face gets a little more grainy You start to get a little bit of sunken look like there's a certain amount of body fat that makes

Starting point is 01:32:58 Objectively that makes women look Aesthetic going below that then they start to look a little too grainy and shredded. And that's okay if that's the look you want. But I think, yeah, it's more about adjusting kind of your perception of yourself. How long of a period did you go for when you do these bolts? The last one I did for like seven months or so. I did it for quite a while until I was getting real uncomfortable in my skin. And I'm like, okay Let's see. I built some strength. I hit some numbers that I was chasing after I got glute gains that I wanted So I was like, okay

Starting point is 01:33:31 Let's kind of shred out see if we can see all the muscle that we built which I see it a lot in my shoulders And my glutes but I felt like I couldn't really see the muscle other places and that's kind of where I got tripped up That you know, I honestly some of those two I mean you're really young. I mean unless you started lifting when you were like 13, you probably just, I mean this is going to get, the more times you do this bulk cut, bulk cut, it's just going to keep getting better and better. You know, like it's, you're going to continue to improve. Part of this is just being patient. Like you're doing the right things, stay healthy, it's okay to stretch the

Starting point is 01:34:04 limits a little bit, but be mindful of these signs that your body's giving you feedback that it's too much. Go the other way. And over time, you know, at 23 years old, I mean, you're, dude, wait till you're 26, and you've been doing this consistently. Like you're gonna continue to keep introducing new training protocols too. Like, oh, you know, try, like obviously you've been doing, running this program for a certain amount of time. You know, now's a good time to jump on something else and introduce a new stimulus too.

Starting point is 01:34:31 And your body's going to respond. Kara, what's your height and body weight at 15%? Five four. Yeah, but I don't know what it's. I'm five four. And right now I'm about one 33, one 35. When I started my cut, I was at like 143. I'm about 17 and a half.

Starting point is 01:34:47 Wow, so you're five four, 134, 15% body fat. You've got great lean body mass. Yeah, you're incredible. I would do, you know what, do a reverse, and you've been following Brett's program. I know Brett's programming is really good. It's maps, anabolic, kind of breakdown style with some different focuses.

Starting point is 01:35:04 I would have you go map symmetry and I would do a reverse diet and I think you would blow your mind if you did Something like that. Do you have that progress? yeah, I do I've been tempted to either do symmetry or Powerlift because I kind of do get obsessed with the strength side of things You know those would be great. Yeah, either one with the reverse diet. I think you're gonna be you'll be really really happy Sounds good. Yeah, I got it. I care. Yeah. Either one with a reverse diet. I think you're going to be, you'll be really, really happy. Yeah, that'd be great. Oh, sounds good. Yeah, you got it.

Starting point is 01:35:28 All right, Karen. Yeah, good job. Awesome, well thank you very much guys. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, thanks for calling in. More hardcore people, you know? It's not really problems, just, you know, hey, just little adjustments.

Starting point is 01:35:42 I mean, some of this too is, like I said, is she's only 23. I mean, do you remember what your 23 for your physique looks like compared to what it looked like at 30 or 35? I mean like you just time under the iron like of bulking I think that's what it is is so many people like you you you run like let's say a year or two of like really Consistently bulking and cutting and there's like where's that cover of a magazine for the seat consists like man It takes time to sculpt this like crazy physique. But I mean, also 15% for a woman,

Starting point is 01:36:11 especially with her lean body mass. That's really good. I bet she doesn't just look like she works out. I bet she's probably one of the fittest looking people. Did we get an Instagram handle too, Doug? I didn't even think of it. Like look to see. She has a private account.

Starting point is 01:36:24 Oh, okay. She's like super jacked I mean sometimes we get people like that right they're like you know I feel like I don't know if I look like they would go on our thing like get out of here yeah like cover of a magazine searching for compliments you know I'm saying look if you like mind pump go to mind pump free calm we have a guide for fat loss it's five it's three easy steps for fat loss it's a free guide mindpumpfree.com you can also find us on Instagram Justin is that mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is that mind pump Adam. Thank you for

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2404: Why Overtraining May Be Making You Fat, How to Determine Your Ideal Bodyweight, Tips for Cutting Body Fat Without Messing Up Your Hormones & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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