Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2424: Signs You Have Hit a Plateau, How to Work Out With a High Stress Job, the Pros & Cons of Fasting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: September 14, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Are you getting back into fitness after taking some time off? DO NOT make this mistake! (2:44) The key to long-term fitness success. (11:59) Organifi are trendsetters! (20:13) A conversation with Nick Andrews from Entera Skincare on their new beard serum. (26:34) Please STOP the remakes! (34:48) Justin’s personal UFO story. (41:29) Debunking the moon landing. (45:13) Russian spy whale. (49:46) Stay mobile y’all! (54:11) Shout out to Georgio Poullas! (57:01) #ListenerLive question #1 – Do you have any general teaching points on how to modify MAPS programs for shift work or other difficult lifestyles? (59:56) #ListenerLive question #2 – Should you change your training once you go on TRT? (1:11:08) #ListenerLive question #3 – What are your thoughts on alternate-day fasting? (1:25:09) #ListenerLive question #4 – I’m an ex-athlete who finds it hard now to get lean and feel like I’ve hit a plateau when it comes to weight loss. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong? (1:39:39) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Entera Skincare for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save. ** For Mind Pump listeners only, join IHP and Equi.Life for 2 full days of live exhibitions, inspiring keynote discussions, and engaging expert panels at The Reimagining Health Summit October 23 - October 25th in Orlando, FL. Visit here and use the code “LIVE100” which will give $100 off any level ticket (excluding virtual). September Promotion: MAPS Starter | Starter Bundle 50% off! ** Code SEPTEMBER50 at checkout ** How to Get Back in Shape After Letting Yourself Go Mind Pump #2257: Why Hitting Fitness Goals is a Bad Idea Mind Pump #1327: Five Mindset Techniques for Fitness Success Mind Pump #2222: Astronaut Mike Massimino Russian spy whale Hvaldimir found dead in Norway : NPR Visit State & Liberty for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** Mind Pump #1830: Five Steps to Determine Your ideal Caloric Intake Mind Pump #2405: The 5 Intermittent Fasting Mistakes Causing Weight Gain TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN! Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump #1565: Why Women Should Bulk Mind Pump #2382: The 5 Biggest Challenges With Cutting & Bulking Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned GEORGIO POULLAS (@georgiopoullas) Instagram Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram  

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you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you Please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DiStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump.

Right in today's episode, we answered live caller's questions. People called in, we helped them on air, but this was after our intro portion, which was around 60 minutes. Today we had a lot of fun. We talked about current events, fitness, our lives, studies, and a lot more.

By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today I talked about their brand new grape product. It's a Better Biome Gummies. You eat these before you eat for better microbiome, better gut health. Go check them out. They have many other products. Go to organifi.com. That's organifi.com forward slash mind pump. Use the

code mind pump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Intera. Intera makes skincare products, hair regrowth products, and beard products powered by peptides. This stuff really, really works. I mean you use it, you'll know within literally a week that you're taking something or using something. Anyway go check them out. Today we talked about their new beard serum that helps your beard grow back faster and darkens the color of your beard naturally. Go to enteraskincare.com, that's E-N-T-A-R, sorry, E-N-T-E-R-A-S-K-I-N-C-A-R-E.com forward slash M-P-M,

use the code MPM, get 10% off your order. Also, come see me in Florida, October 23rd to the 25th, Orlando, Florida, I will be speaking at the Reimagining Health Summit. This is gonna be functional medicine, health, fitness, great speakers, great people to learn from. If you're into your health, if you're into your fitness, if you want improved longevity, if you're a healthcare practitioner, go check it out

and we're gonna get you $100 off your ticket. So go to thereimagininghealthsummit.com forward slash mind pump, use the code live100. That'll give you $100 off any ticket. Also, we have some sales on some workout programs. MAPS Starter, our beginner strength training program, half off, and then we have a starter bundle which includes MAPS Antibolic, Maps Prime,

and our intuitive nutrition guide that's also 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, and then use the code September50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. Are you getting back into fitness after taking some time off? Do not make this mistake. Everybody thinks when they take time off and they come back, they need to go on a cut, they need to cut their calories,

they need to try to lose weight. Huge mistake. If you worked out before, took some time off, get back into working out, what you need to do is build muscle. Get your protein intake back up and get stronger. It'll make the cut much easier later on and you'll get those gains back. You'll get those muscle memory gains coming back. So don't go into a cut,

go into a slight bulk. I like this tip. We recently had a live caller who listened to the show for a long time, ran several programs, really great job of bulking many bulks many cuts consistent and really we were kind of diving into what he did he had gone on vacation for two or three weeks so fell off the diet fell off training there was a vacation for two weeks or a camp and then he was sick for a week there you go so yeah so if you like you know see basically a month of like kind of falling off right of the diet and training and he came at the muscular guy, right? So bigger 17% 15 to 17% body fat a lot of muscle 200 or something pound dude And then came back and went right into a cut and it was really the one of the only critiques that I personally had was

you know Logically think you think fell off from training, probably made a bad, a lot of food, bad food choices as far as the quality of food I'm eating out and think soup and shit like that. Like these are the things that you're doing when you are sick or you haven't. And so you think logically like, oh, I'm getting back on it. Now let me get back, lean out. Cause I feel soft or whatever.

Uh, you know, literally the strategy for me get back, lean out because I feel soft or whatever. You know, literally the strategy for me later on, I think as I started to understand the importance of this, was I would get back and instead of actually doing that, I would be at a maintenance or a surplus and go right back in. And the logic behind that was twofold for me. One, it's already hard to be consistent with eating protein when I'm on my diet and I'm tracking and I'm paying attention. So number one, if I'm falling off the diet, I'm not training, I'm missing my protein intake and probably pretty egregiously, especially if I got sick. I got sick, I'm eating soup and that's it. So I'm definitely missing my protein intake. Second, I haven't lifted for three weeks or four weeks and I'm getting soup and that's it. So I'm definitely missing my protein take. Second, I haven't lifted

for three weeks or four weeks and I'm getting back in. So it's going to take very little stimulus for my body to get a signal to adapt and build muscle again. In fact, everybody's felt that before you get back the first time and a lot of times you overreach and you're sore. And so needing the additional calories to go to recovery and adaptation from this loud signal that I've trained and facilitate recovery versus being in a deficit trying to do that. And so I found to be far more successful after I come off of a time off, whether it was planned or not, that I get back in a calorie surplus. I found the same thing.

Yeah, better psychologically, better physically as well. I found the same thing. I'll give you two scenarios why this applies most of the time. Scenario one, it's been a long time since you worked out. You've taken years off. You're overweight, you wanna lose weight. The best thing to do to start out, and we've talked about this many times,

is to work on the metabolism first before you ever try to cut. So that's why it's valuable there. I'm still gonna bump your protein, and we're still gonna try to build muscle before we even try to cut, because we wanna put ourselves in a position to where the cut is sustainable,

where we have a faster, more effective metabolism in the context of fat loss in order to do the cut. Now the second scenario, it's even more important. You took off a month, you're normally very consistent. You took off a month. If you're consistent with strength training, then you take a month or two months or three months off, you went into a catabolic state.

You went into a muscle loss, muscle pare down state. So you're catabolic. But what's behind the scenes there that you can activate is something called muscle memory. This is a very real thing. Anybody who's ever worked out has experienced this. Takes you a long time to gain 10 pounds of lean body mass. You'll lose it for whatever reason.

Gaining it back the second time around really fast. So what you wanna do is you wanna get that back as fast as possible so you can get everything working again. So you ain't catabolic, bumped the protein, keep the calories, maintenance or above, start lifting, get those gains back. And this is what I would look forward to after layoffs, after layoffs for whatever reason, I can't wait to get back to the gym to build that muscle back. I'm not worried about my body fat because when I get the muscle, the fat starts to fall off. Now if I go from catabolic

to deficit, so I go catabolic time off, now I'm going into a cut and then I go lift weights, very difficult. It's very, very difficult. My body's not going to want to gain the muscle back. Anabolic feeling is so much better. That's right. That's right. And I'm not setting myself up long term. So in pretty much almost any scenario, and I don't say every scenario, but most scenarios, that's a better way to get started, either because you're ramping up the metabolism, you but most scenarios, that's a better way to get started, either because you're ramping up the metabolism,

you're trying to put yourself in a better place for fat loss, or you're rebuilding the muscle that you lost. And Adam, you know, when I, even when I overeat on vacation, okay, I may overeat, but I never hit my protein. That's right. Hitting, you know, so I'll aim for let's say 200 grams of protein a day, that's a nice, optimal 200 to 220 for building muscle recovery.

Like that's my like good space for protein intake. Like when I go on vacation, even when I overeat, I'm not hitting at 200 grams. There's no way I'm not having a 50 gram protein. That's intentional, yeah, you have to think of it. I'm just not having a lot of calories, but I don't have a lot of protein. And this is why it's counterintuitive to do this,

because let's say, like a bad scenario in that three week off, let's say it's not getting sick and it's just being off on vacation. And you do eat like an asshole. Candy, ice cream, all the other. And you over it, and you put on five to eight pounds. Logically, it seems like the smart strategy would go on a cut and reduce calories

Which I'm sure that's what he was thinking too when we were talking to this live caller is He probably felt a little soft probably felt like he put on a little bit of body fat because he fell off But it's not he's overeating steak and chicken. He's overeating ice cream candy desserts French fries You know carbohydrates chips things that are easy that are palatable that you can easily overeat on calories, and then under eating protein. So really what probably happened, not only did you put on a couple pounds of body fat, you probably also lost a little bit of muscle along the way too. And so getting back is, you know, and then Justin brought up another good point that I didn't even mention is the psychological part too. It's like, here I am, I'm getting back on my routine, get back in the rhythm, I'm gonna be sore,

it's gonna be hard, I'm gonna push myself, that uncomfortable beginning again. Why make it even more difficult myself and restrict and be cutting? Why not feed myself accordingly? Much better strategy. Yeah, you wanna have fun when you get back too. Re-energize your passion for training

because it's really, if not, it's work. You know, and why come right back in with that kind of energy because it's really, if not, it's work. And why come right back in with that kind of energy where it's like, well, I'm just going to get back into the routine and the drudgery and the work of it. Let's have fun with this. And then all these other benefits are going to happen anyway. That's right. There's two levers. There's a lot of levers that you work with and maneuver when you're manipulating things to change your physique or performance, strength, etc. But some of these levers are connected in the sense that they're inversely related. So one goes down, the other one tends to go up. What is that? Like volume and intensity. Like if my

volume goes up, my intensity has to go down, vice versa. You almost never increase both at the same time. But then there's some levers that are connected to where they have to move at the same time. And one of those is calories and volume and intensity. If my calories go down, my volume and intensity also go down. What a lot of people do is they drop their calories and then try to move up the lever that says they work out harder and longer. Big mistake. So if come off a layoff, your body's already sensitive to exercise. You haven't worked out for a month. The damage that exercise normally causes you

is gonna be higher. So now I'm gonna go cut my calories and damage my body more. You're setting yourself up for total failure. So now if you're listening to this and you're like, this is so counter. This is so counter from what I thought was true. Well, this is why most people don't achieve fitness goals. It's not because it's hard in the sense that,

it's hard, consistency's hard, I get that. It's that people do everything wrong. And when you do everything wrong, it's impossible. When you do things right, what ends up happening is, and this is how it'll feel for you, when you do things the right way, if you've done things wrong for a long time, when you start to do things right, here's what it feels like.

I used to love this comment from clients. My body's changing and it feels like I'm not really working that hard. Or I'm losing body fat and it feels like it's just happening. Like what's going on? There's nothing worse than working really hard and not getting a result. And that's like one of the biggest indicators

of when a client is like, I'm just done. Like this is not for me, you know, whatever it is. But yeah, so putting them on a plan that's actually gonna benefit them and show them a result and it's so much better. Speaking of along these lines, I did a post earlier about fitness that I think it resonated a lot

and it's along the lines of what we've communicated in the past. I just worded it a little differently. I'll let you guys, I. I'll let you guys know what I wrote. I'd love your thoughts on this. I would have never understood this in the first half of my career but later I really started to figure this out and really I think this is part or largely the key to long-term success when it comes to fitness. Here's what I put, I labeled good fitness and bad fitness. Good fitness is health, vitality, and it supports your energy for things

that improve the quality of your life, which include things like being with your family, service to others, et cetera, things that we know that bring real quality of life. That's good fitness. Bad fitness, sex appeal, ego, self-centered body worship. Now the problem is most people approach fitness for improved sex appeal, for, ego, self-centered body worship. Now the problem is most people approach fitness for improved sex appeal, for their ego,

and to worship their body. And they miss out on all those other things I talked about which are what really can make fitness this lifelong journey and pursuit that really sticks with you. Now the irony is, here's the irony, if you chase sex appeal, ego ego and you worship your body, you will lose all those things

and you'll also lose your health, vitality, and energy for service and health for others. On the flip side, you go for health, you go for vitality, you try to make yourself a better human so you can do the things that really improve the quality of life, you're gonna be sexier, your body's gonna look better, you can do all those things that you were chasing before.

You should put that post in our trainer forum. I think it's a really good trainer conference. To tell their clients. Yeah, yeah, because I think, I mean, I 100% agree, and I do think that this is our responsibility as coaches and trainers, right, is to help that, because it's really tough for somebody

who's been out of shape most of their life or riddled with all these health issues because of they've eaten poorly and not exercise and they now need to make change Getting to that level it takes time and before you are, you know Because initially it's like I got to solve this health issue or it's I just want to look I don't like the way I look and so many times That's the initial driver that gets them to make the decision to make change, which is good.

It's moving in at least a better direction than they're currently moving at, but it's not the final destination and it's not where you want to keep that person. And it really takes good coaches and trainers this ability to do this with people, right, is to be able to communicate to them that, hey, it's okay that this got you in the door and we're working toward this way. It's okay that you kind of initially set your goal

there, but we eventually want to move away from this being the main target because it will lead you down the wrong path. The core of it is what you're talking about. These are all the surface layers that we need to peel back and get to that point. This is the true north that we should be focused on. Yeah, you know where you hear this and where I started to hear this first, although it took me a while to still figure it out for myself. In some ways, I'm going to be very honest, this is a lesson I have to continue to teach myself because

the whole body image, self-worship, ego, it's always a struggle. I think it's always going to be a struggle. I think that's a struggle of the world. But I remember first hearing this from old members of my gyms that I managed who were consistent and trainers that I'd met who'd been trainers for a long time that seemed to have it all together. And what I mean by that is I'd see these trainers, I'd met, who'd been trainers for a long time that seemed to have it all together. And what I mean by that is I'd see these trainers, I remember one in particular that worked for me.

This woman, she was, at the time, at the time she might've been like 48 or 49, and I was in my 20s. So for someone in your 20s, when you see someone 48, 49, who's really fit and energetic and looks good, but it's a natural fitness and health. She wasn't like, you know, where she had like lots of plastic surgery and whatever.

She was just very naturally healthy, very naturally fit, very energetic, effective with her clients. Her clients really loved her. She exemplified this. And I would see this, she didn't even have to communicate it to me. I'd see it, I'd be like, man, she's got it together.

Like she's doing this and she looks so good and she's so vibrant because she's really figured this out. You could tell she had a real passion for the vitality and the energy and the health that the fitness provided. You could tell she wasn't worshiping her body. She wasn't trying to show. It was just evident. Also the members, I would interview, not officially officially but I would always go up to members who are a lot older than

I was who are really consistent especially my morning members when you when you run gyms the morning people are the most consistent and in that morning crew there's always always for any gym owners managers listening right now you know what I'm talking about you always have those older members that work out 6 a.m. or so that are real consistent, seem to be pretty fit, who are like in their 60s. And I'd see them and I know them because I sometimes come in the morning and I'd see the same people and I would always ask them like, why do you why do you do this? Like what? How long have you been doing this? How long have you been

consistent? What do you love about it? And none of them said, oh it makes me look amazing or it's my biceps or my abs. It was always like, oh man I just I love doing it. I feel so good. I I'm so vibrant and then they would always share their age. This is another thing I've shared on the podcast before. Older people who are fit and healthy and figure it out. Proud of their age. Can't wait to tell you all day. They want to tell you. They can't. Men, women, it doesn't matter. I mean, you never get a older man or woman, or especially woman, come up to you and tell you,

by the way, I'm 58 years old, you get a 58 year old woman who's fit and healthy, been extra-ed for a, she's gonna wait for the opportunity to tell you. So true. And so when I would hear that, I'd see that. It's great bragging rights, I mean, I'll give it to them. Yeah, and they figure it out.

You know, the other thing that's kinda cool that I think I've slowly pieced together on my own personal journey as we've aged, right, and lifting for a long time, is the more that you work towards the just being healthy and making that being your driver, right, to being a better dad, a better person, a healthier, strong, mobile, good sleep,

versus how's my abs look, how big are my biceps versus that, how much actually easier it is when you are trying to force towards a, a crazy goal, you know, to get your body to a PR thing or to look a certain way and you're, you're trying every edge and it's like, you're almost like you're forcing yourself to get there and you actually work so hard to try and achieve that.

When you're just, I'm going about this to be healthy and a better version of myself. I'm not chasing some crazy PR, I'm not chasing some crazy look, I just wanna be healthy. And so the decisions I make around food, the decisions I make around exercise, they're better anyway. They're easier. You know why it's easier Adam?

It's because the value is evident. Whereas when you're chasing aesthetics and the look, it feels so hard because in reality you never really get what you think you're gonna get. Like, oh I want to look super hot at the beach. And you don't really get like, okay a few people look at me but I'm still not happy and so it's like this struggle. It's like never satisfied. Whereas if like you're playing with your kids on the floor and you're like oh my god it's hard for me to like it's on the floor and then you help yourself with that it's easy because the value. It's also because you're like driving or

hitting a golf club and you're you're gripping the steering wheel so tight. Oh yeah. When you want something so bad like it's because you're and you over correct and you over throttle you you know, you over swing, you overpower and say it's more of finesting when you are about health and it's more about like living a better life and being a vet, better version of yourself and you, and you, and you, and you chase it or you pursue it like that. It's a much looser, lighter easier approach. You're not gripping the wheel so hard.

You're not trying to muscle your way to force to get there. You're much more likely to make healthier, better decisions. And you're more likely to be working with your body against it instead of against it. It's peace. Trying to will its way to your superficial goal that you have. You're at peace. Bit ironic.

Isn't it funny? Yeah. I know. I wish I learned that as a young person. Yeah. All right. I got to say something because I've been noticing this. I've been seeing what they're doing and I've been kind of talking about them, praising

them a little bit, but now I see very clearly that Organifi has figured out they are really trendsetters for sure. Okay, they did their Shilajit gummies. When I saw that, you know how hyped I was, and I'm like, oh, and now you got all these copycats. Then they did their Happy Drops gummies. And by the way, these are like supplement categories that were not that big, and then Organifi said,

we're gonna go in there, and we're gonna make it big. Who's sort of like saffron to be like, something to get excited about? They did it again So they send us this these better biome gummies first of all if you were to gonna start a supplement company And you want to sell a supplement and you're looking at the market you would not think to yourself I'm gonna make a better biome. So I'm gonna make a supplement for with prebiotics. That's a huge market You wouldn't do that, but there's a lot of value in that. That's what they did

I'm looking at the ingredients and this is going to crush. This is going to for sure crush. So what they did is they've made a supplement in gummy form that you take before you eat that encourages the proliferation of healthy bacteria and reduces the proliferation of bad bacteria. Now what's the value of that? Well your digestion is improved, you enhance things like fat loss, reduce things like bloating. By the way the data on this is very interesting. Apple cider vinegar which I thought got overhyped which is true it still get overhyped they went

crazy with it but the truth is for example this contains some apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar in some studies showed weight loss. Like what the hell, how does it cause weight loss? Well, it promotes better gut bacteria in the gut. And for some people, that will definitely help with weight loss. Then they put New Zealand gold kiwi fruit, which has these prebiotic fibers,

which have been shown to be beneficial to feed healthy bacteria. So you take this before you eat a meal, and it's not a probiotic, so it's not bacteria, it just helps your body and your gut do what it's supposed to do as like a pre-food kind of supplement. And I looked at it and I'm like what? Does that have digestive enzymes too? No, although apple cider vinegar will have some of that as well. It's really about optimizing the environment of the gut to encourage good bacteria and discourage bad bacteria And then there's lots of for example if you take this and then eat you'll probably get a lower insulin spike again

The data will support this so you get a better insulin response, which means you'll get better. You know less cravings You'll get better energy Again better bacteria less bloat less inflammation like they're gonna again and there's gonna be copycats Wasn't that the the idea there was to take it before a meal Yes, so that way it stimulates your acid at the right time. That's the other part of it, right? That's also that was something I was experimenting with. Oh, I thought it was a first thing in the morning thing. Also that there was apparently there was a whole philosophies of they went crazy with it. Yeah, because there was data

supporting it. And so of course, what the like, I didn't try that though. Minimal impact. Yeah, yeah. So it'll help with I can't remember the acid you produce in your gut for some reason. Thank you very much, so it helps with that. So it's a pre-food supplement and they're gummies because they're gonna figure out people like gummies. Okay Sal, does it become more or less important with the type of meal you have?

Meaning, obviously you eat it before any sort of meal. But let's say I have one meal which is like chicken rice and which would be like a staple meal that I eat eating it before that versus five guys burger cheeseburger and french fries I'm asking this because I one of the things I used to notice when I would take probiotics is oh it would mitigate some of the the blow the water retention by doing that beforehand I found that that was yeah the short answer is yes but I want to be careful with that because it's not going to fix

your shitty meal. Yeah. So I want to be very careful but yes you're gonna get less of the negative... Minimize the damage. Crappy feeling that you'll get from a bad meal from something like this. Okay. And but as look as a supplement company they're brilliant because I think people are gonna like the taste of it, tastes really good, they're gonna like the effects of it. You know it's good for you it's just like it hasn't been in a packaged up kind of version I mean and then they attach it to meals Yeah, getting people getting close here that I almost have a full bag of gummy bears that I can eat

Gummy hey, that's the next move is like an actual package like gummy bear package, but it has all the different ones. Yeah is like an actual package like gummy bear package, but it has all the different ones. Yeah Sack you have my gummy bears all day long. I love Gummy candy fanatic. I love it. It's so funny yesterday Speaking of candy, I'm gonna out myself here real quick So I tough time at home my whole family, right? My grandmother passed, so I'm going through these ups and downs and emotions. Very, very challenging sometimes. So last night I'm at home and my wife went to, she's doing this women's group right now with the church which is incredible. I'll talk more about it as I get more information but she came back last night, met some

incredible women. It was really cool, right? So but anyway she was there. I'm home alone. My 15 year old's got homework so I'm by myself and I'm feeling Shitty man. I'm feeling sad. I'm feeling real sad Missing my grandma, you know, I'm like, oh, you know And so I did what I normally don't ever do is I just said I'm gonna eat candy. It's make myself feel better Yeah, so I door dashed Reese's Pieces candy. Except I left the address to work. It didn't come to your house. That's the word.

So I get a text from, first off I get the picture from DoorDash. And it's Dylan holding the candy on the door. I'm like, oh, now everybody at work knows. Now all my employees know I ordered candy. They're all going to have to tell them. He's a closet Reese's eater. I got a good excuse for that. Now you got to announce it, dude. Now you got to announce it. I can't tell you how many times. My staff knows I ordered candy, Rob. You have to tell them about me. He's a closet Reese's eater. I got a good excuse. Now you gotta announce it, dude.

Now you gotta announce it. I can't tell you how many times. My staff knows I ordered candy. Oh, I can't tell you how many times that's happened to Katrina and I, where we. That's the one candy you'll get. Have this address, because I door dashed earlier in the day, and then she orders dinner for the family,

and then it gets sent over here. Like, oh, man. Just text the staff. Just give the staff. Yeah, yeah, Steve. See if the staff is there. Someone just got a free meal, because we're not going all the way over there to go get it, so it happens all the time.

That's so annoying. So we were gonna have Nick Andrews call in to talk to us about Entera's new peptide-based product. So can we do that now, Doug, or should we wait till the end? No, we'll do it right now. Nick, good to see you again. So quick question, what is in the beard serum

you guys are selling? I've been using it and hair growth is faster and dare I say a little darker. So what's in the beard serum that's making that happen? I'm super excited you mentioned that. The beard serum is two parts. So we have the Renu serum and then we have the Elixir. The serum is oil-based grape seed oil.

It's a dry oil. So it keeps your beard soft, moisturized, you know, without being greasy or messy or anything. But it actually has C60, carbon 60 in it. Carbon 60 is an antioxidant, about 172 times more effective than vitamin C, and it also actually boosts mitochondrial function in the skin, and anybody listening to you guys knows that that's key for hair growth, hair quality, skin health.

So then the other one, the elixir, that's where you're seeing the darkness increase. So we're hitting two angles there. So you have some general skincare aspects. So you have hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, which is increasing blood flow, which is critical for hair quality, hair growth. We have some ceramides, general skin protection for quality of skin. And then the real magic is coming in with the peptides.

So we have GHK, not GHK-CU, that's different, GHK. Then we have biotin GHK, and both those are stimulating and improving hair growth through a couple different levels. But the cool thing is it's not just at the surface, that works at the cellular level. And then the magic you're seeing with the pigmentation is actually coming from acetyl hexapeptide one. So that actually increases melanogenesis pigment cells. So, you know, like me, whether you get a little older, get a little less color in your facial hair, it may not completely bring it back,

but it either slows it down or will darken it. In my case, I've noticed some increased pigment as well from using it. Now is there any value in somebody actually even using that on their head because it does that? If you have a lot of gray hair would you benefit from doing that too? Yeah, you absolutely could. I mean the beard oil honestly I use it my hair in the morning after I shower as well. My hair is normally dry and kind of frizzy, but I put that a little bit on my hand and rub it through and I'm good. Okay, so the GHK, why not CU?

I know CU is for copper, so it's the peptide without the copper added to it or why is it that versus the GHK-CU, which is what we always hear about. Right, so when you have the copper attached to GHK, that focuses more on healing and regeneration mechanisms and GHK by itself focuses more on collagen production and the extracellular matrix, which are the parts that really support the hair and allow it to have a soft kind of like a true tree a nice solid root system to grow and grow

healthy. Awesome. Is this the main thing that separates because it feels like there's I feel like I see beard oil stuff popping up all over the place. Does is anybody else you have competitors that are doing the same same thing with peptides or is this the main thing that differentiates you guys from everybody else? I have not seen anybody else doing it, and this is actually why we did it, because people are like, hey, you got a great product

for our hair, but what can we do for our beard? There's 100 beard oils out there, not only, like, any oil will condition your beard, but beyond that, like, you know, hey, what's it really doing for me? Right. So the answer was, well, we can help can help with that yeah so this would be a good so correct me if i'm wrong but this would be a good product for somebody who's looking to also even out the growth of their beard because some people when they try to grow facial hair it doesn't grow evenly or

they'll have some areas with sparse yeah a little patchy so this would be good to give you that kind of nice uniform look because is that would that be a correct statement? It would be the key to that. One thing everybody has to keep in mind with hair stuff is consistency is key. Just the physiology of hair. It takes time. So I would never tell anybody you're going to use these products and you know, have a mountain man beard in two weeks. The full Burt Reynolds mustache though? I'm working on it.

You know what? Obviously, you know, conflict of interest here, but just the quality of my facial hair has gotten so much better using this. I test all my products on me before I sell them. And my beard was like a, a Brillo and like, it would like break the, uh, you know, Brill and all that. And using that it, it's like soft, man. It's good. Yeah. Good stuff.

I also noticed that. So sometimes they break out a little bit underneath my beard. I noticed less of that. Is that have to do with the antioxidant properties? It does. So it's a combination of the, primarily the niacinamide from the serum, so you're increasing blood flow.

So just the buildup of cellular debris, oils, things like that, your body can clear them easily. So you're just gonna have healthier skin. And then you have the C60 acting, like the super duper antioxidant, just helping your skin stay healthy, destroy everything that might be irritating it. All right.

Now one more question. Could a woman use this for her eyebrows? I know a lot of women have issues with they over pluck their eyebrows or whatever. Could this be something that would help with eyebrow growth? Fullness. Fullness. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the women who works for us, that's actually, she started using,

she's like, yeah, I'm using my eyebrows and loving it. So. Awesome. Very great. Yeah, you guys, you guys really crush with your products and I have yet to find competitors that come close. So keep them coming, man. This is great.

Best place for them to find the product, Nick. Yeah, so hit up the website in terraskincare.com is gonna be the best place to them to find the product Nick. Yeah so hit up the website in terraskincare.com is going to be the best place to get to them and just a quick use tip because one is water-based one is oil-based so generally you'd want to apply the water-based one the uh the renewed serum first and then you would want to apply the oil after you've just thoroughly worked in the water-based one awesome very good good deal man Thanks for coming on brother. I know you're real busy. You're like the mad scientists of the space. We appreciate you so thanks again, man Good seeing you Nick That's all thank you very much guys. You got easy all right, so that so that was pretty cool right the the beard serum

Yeah, you need that for sure You're officially the most cray, I believe. I have so much more. You know what's funny? I mean if I just rub it all over my head, yeah for sure that would help. You know what's funny is that we see each other every day so I actually don't really notice it. Until we look at pictures. I know.

Every time I see like a video of me or something. You look way better. You got no room to talk. You and Doug, Sal and I are fucked. We went backwards. Sal and I went backwards for sure. So that's why I started talking to you. You know, like there was nothing but up for me. Yeah. I should have very low, low barrier. I had hair. Everything was dark. Yeah. You're you're you're fitter. Your hair is better. Your mustache is rocking, your teeth are better.

You won all the way, dude. I'll finally be attractive when I'm 90. Doug looks the same age or younger, and then Sal and I, just a disaster. You went fast forward. I look like half the man. Sal looks like he ate old Sal. And he's all gray, all bad. Hey, my wife was listening to an old video of me.

She's like, why does your voice sound different? I'm like, heavier? Oh, it totally does, yeah. I think we all sound a little different. I noticed that too. We do. I saw that clip, the very, one of the very, very first one that we did at Katrina's mom's house.

And Craig was there. Bunch of kids, dude. We look like a bunch of kids. Oh, that's cringe 5000, really? It's really bad. So Justin, did you see that they're making, you're gonna get mad. Oh no. Yeah, you see that they're making, you're gonna get mad. Oh, no.

Yeah, you're not gonna like this. I'm gonna brace myself. Are you a Fight Club fan? Do you like the movie? Yeah, yeah, of course. One of the best movies ever. Tyler Durden. In my opinion, one of the best movies of all time.

Such a good movie. Great movie. Such a good movie. We don't talk about it. My kids, my older kids love it. I introduced them to it. My daughter watched it recently. She now has a Fight Club post or whatever. They're remaking it

They're doing a remake. How do you how do you read? You just put a bunch of it's a they nailed it You know like that's you can't remake that movie. Oh There's a lot of movies you can remake I'm gonna give you guys five seconds to figure out how they would remake it today. Think of today's Hollywood They take movies they remake them and then what do they do? Today, think of today's Hollywood. They take movies, they remake them, and then what do they do? Woke them?

It's gonna be a- All women cat, all women, fight club. Oh really? They did it, and now it's an all women fight club. That's a better, at least, I actually give them, you know what, if you're gonna do it, you gotta make it so- What do they call it, cat fight?

No. You're better off doing that than actually trying to really recreate the same storyline. Here's the deal, I don't- Like, ghostbuster it. I don't care that it deal, I don't care that it's all women. I don't care, here's what I care about, that that's their button for every damn remake. Let's redo a famous walk in the park.

It's just lazy, it's lazy. Let's say a male Coyote Ugly or something. Let's see a male version. Whoa, pick something else. No, it's like a movie that they already nailed it. There's no better You're not gonna remake something, you know better than you already did. So what's the point? I'm so mad It's like I hate that, you know, they won't spend money on new ideas

They remake them and then they just think that because we're gonna like make it up women. It's gonna be better That's not what it is. That's not what it is. What it is. It's a it's a Cheap hack for creators. There's already a built-in fan base that will go watch it because of the loyalty towards Fight Club. It's just like Marvel and all that stuff. Do you think the fans are going to watch it? At least to critique it. So that's a...

Maybe. Yes. To hate watch it. And even that movie was such a massive hit that you don't even need all of them You just need a percentage of them to go watch it and it's an automatic hit this this is the same formula They follow with all the Marvel bullshit Yeah, it's like it's got enough of the same thing with Star Wars It has enough of a cult following that you only need a percentage and it's already a record-breaking movie. So that's I hate that

It's such a hack. Yeah, and. And the industry does it all the time where they remake a movie and they're like it has enough of a cult following that people will go watch it regardless if it's good. You know what it is? It's the cost of making movies has gotten so crazy. Yeah. That they, this is true by the way. This is the pharmaceutical industry does the same thing and I'll connect the two. The cost of making a movie has gotten so crazy that they're they don't want to take risks yeah because why would we spend a hundred million dollars I think what's the average what's the average movie

cost to make it's ridiculous oh it's insane and they don't want to take a risk with a new movie you're a new script they want something when they know that this works if you can guarantee at least you know 20 million dollar profit let's go with that even it's not a huge profit, we guarantee versus this risk. Typically, the move now is to create a long series out of it. And then they shoot it with like certain characters. And then it's like, you could drag it out and keep like the content like was a game of Thrones and all their different like spin offs. Like it was like it's a hundred and like 20 something million,ffs, it's like, it's 120 something million

each episode. What? There's something like that, yeah. It was crazy. Maybe it's not like you said, maybe it was the whole series. Check me on that one, Doug. So the pharmaceutical industry is like this because the pharma industry,

Yeah, instead of making a new drug. To make a new drug, a drug takes I think a billion dollars from inception to passing all the trials to getting approved. So when you're looking at, for example, pain, you wanna solve pain, you wanna create a pain pill. I either can create an opiate, which I know opiates work, or I can go down this path of experimental drugs that are potentially better, but why would I risk

a million dollars? 10 million per episode, Justin. Oh, yeah, 10. Yeah, I was gonna say, gee. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. That's why I was like, whoa! Still a lot, though.

I mean, $10 million to do a single episode. One episode or something like that. I wonder if AI is going to improve the creativity, since it's gonna reduce the cost. Yeah, I wonder. There's gotta be a place. You know how they have independent films and they have things that are trying to launch off,

but don't really make it into the popular like we don't ever see them Like I know YouTube has been huge for this, you know with content creators, but like just like movie ideas in general I haven't seen anything original and so long. It's everything. Everything is hackable now. You're right. Everything's hackable That you that's that's the new move and that's what they're only getting, that's gonna, we're gonna see more and more of that crap where it's just like get five influencers that all have millions of followers, put them all in a movie. You don't have to be able to act very well. Are we gonna see like fitness podcast? A shitty movie with people you know. We're gonna see fitness podcasts with three male hosts trying to copy our name type of deal that's gonna happen. That'd be hilarious. I'm just gonna put it out here. If anybody does that, it's already been done.

You know what? It's a townie guy, Mexican, white guy. So when I talk in interviews and stuff like that, I get asked about the business. And we talk about the whole idea of three hosts. People assume that it's a good strategy. I know it's not a good strategy. It's so not. It is so not.

It's very difficult. It's very lucky that we got that it worked, the three of us. It is not a good strategy. It's not a good strategy at all to think that you're gonna get three hosts. And let me tell you, it's still somewhat of an Achilles heel for us.

I mean, there's some parts of it that are nice. You know the best part about it? We do an interview and I know two other guys have to do some homework about that person. And so the pressure for me to have to really dive deep and keep the conversation going, super, okay, that makes it easier. But that doesn't make for a better show. No.

Doesn't make for a better interview. And also when it comes to all three of us in a normal conversation, having three people that don't have egos that feel like they need to be the host or the main guy or what, it is not a better strategy even though you see people trying to replicate it even if you just took it to like one of us like just your personality only you know duplicated it would not work same south same with me like it wouldn't even it'd be like a 10 minute podcast i wouldn't if if with this didn't happen or if we let's say we we dissolve this? I would never go out and go like, I need to go find two of the guys.

Yeah, no way, I'm gonna go do this myself. It'd be a way better idea. Way better idea. It is, and so it's funny to me when I see other people that try and put the three host formula together, like it's some smart formula. It's like, nah, it's not a smart, it's not a smart. Justin, I wanna hear about about you have a personal UFO story

Oh, yes, stop it Courtney saw UFO she did and this is from her the biggest skeptic on the planet, which is like that's why I want to hear this Yeah, she makes fun of me all the time and this is what actually makes me mad Because I've been waiting my whole life See one I watched the skies This is what actually makes me mad, because I've been waiting my whole life. To see one. To see one. I watched the skies. Yeah, like, I would have been so excited,

but apparently she was down in Palm Desert. I was at home with Ethan was sick, so I didn't go down with her. No, this was recently. This was recently. Yeah, this was like last weekend. Oh man. Yeah, and so she was down near San Diego,

was visiting her sister, which was close by, and I guess like just was looking up in the sky as they were driving on the freeway. And she was just like, Whoa, you guys see this? And she was there with her sister and her sister's boyfriend. And they were kind of like, Oh, like, didn't really listen. And she's like pointing at it and was like trying to get their attention. I guess there was a really bright light in the sky that was like, it wasn't like one of those where it just takes off like immediately.

It was like, it was ascending up like at a pretty fast pace, like faster than the planes that were kind of flying out of the airport. And then it just, it kept going to the point where it went straight vertical and then it like disappeared. So it went up and then faster, faster, faster, faster than when I was, you sure? What wasn't a rocket or something? She's like, that was not a rocket phone. No, I know we don't have, I mean, that's a, uh, the, the place that you would

expect something like that, right? Down in the San Diego Palm desert type of like that, right? Down in the San Diego, Palm Desert type of like area. Right. The desert and also it's near like a military base and you know, all that kind of stuff down there. Apparently they see Joshua trees around there. Apparently it's a hot spot. Yeah, it's all desert area out there. So if you were going to, which to me is the logic behind that is like, if you were military people testing our newest technology, where would you do it?

Out in the middle of these desert areas where if it were to crash or something would happen. I'm like brand new drone something, because drone technology has gotten crazy. Insane. What they are capable of now. Insane. I just saw one where they have flamethrowers attached and they were going

Burning just just areas and just going over these trees and just completely Incinerating everything and I was like, oh my god I mean they could just remotely do this you guys have now seen you guys have seen these like light shows they do now Yeah, I mean that in itself should show you how sophisticated the technology is. And they're all synchronized. Yes, to synchronize them, to make all these crazy designs. I mean, that's wild. You know, it's funny, I keep hearing more and more

of these UFO, quote unquote, experts, are saying that they are not from other planets, that they're interdimensionaldimensional and or some kind of what might be labeled as demons angels whatever interdimensional beings I'm hearing more and more people refer to them that way now I would have laughed at that in the past but I don't think that's any more crazy Tucker Carlson said that he did and I don't think it's any more wild than then you know people aliens not people aliens living on another planet

and using faster than light speed type travel. In fact, one guy made the point, I think I told you guys this, he said if there were really aliens on another planet with faster than light speed travel, they would very easily take over the universe with that kind of technology. Yeah, that's what they call it,

type four, type five civilization. Something like that. Yeah. What, uh, which one are you sent over the moon landing debunk? Oh, that was me. That was Doug. Which one of you conspiracy theorists sent over the debunk you? He's old school conspiracy theorist.

No, no, all joking aside, all of the mainstream conspiracy theories, that one, to me, when you look into them, and I look at all of them, I think it's fun, they're fascinating, that one has the most, in my opinion, credibility. I think, well, we were just joking and being tongue in cheek when we had that astronaut on, and we were trying to get something out of him, and of course, nothing, but I honestly think

that a lot of it was staged Yes, specifically in case it all kind of went to hell and it backfired on yeah And because we had to win the thing is the stakes were so high that we put that out there We're going to the moon. We're gonna be the first to move against Russia. You know they had to have a fail-safe We had that's the logic that I our superior or in our superiority with our missile technology. Don't you think with something like that, like at least I know if the roles were reversed and they faked the moon landing, we would be the first fuckers to point it out and debunk it. We would try.

You got to think, I mean they're humans too. I wonder, you think they don't care? You don't think they're competitive? You don't think they dug deep to try and debunk that hard? Do we know that that, you know, maybe they had a lot of like information in Russia that was like... I mean, see, internet today, I would think they would get over to us by now. You know, there's two motivations. I don't know. There's a lot of media there we don't get.

Yeah, and there's a few motivations. One is to trick the Soviets, but the others is to trick the people. And tricking the people, I think, is just as important. You want the people to believe we have that superiority. Yeah, I know, but that highlights, again, even more the reason why the Russians would be so motivated to prove that we were wrong, we faked it, and so I just don't see them getting beat and then them going like, oh yeah, that was a for sure video. You gotta think for sure. Somebody during that that time was like they're faking. That's not real the shadows don't align

There's got and they must have went down the rabbit hole themselves So we get we got to be able to prove this false So I think it's just and we shared the space station with them right and so it's I mean we've done a lot of like Like sharing of information no one's ever been on the moon besides us, right? We're the only ones? Supposedly. Didn't India just go there? I thought China or India went. No, no, yeah.

But maybe one of their, yeah, I don't know. Not like a probe. Probe. But an actual person. No. Has any other people been? Maybe not, I don't think so. I know why Doug said that now.

He's the light guy. He likes the light theory, the shadows. Yeah, he's into lights and lighting and photo photography. Yeah, it's almost like there's like a stage lighting, right, because of the shadowing. But also, you know, it's a really, and this is, again, I'll just add a little more salt in here. Up in Canada, there's this area that's like eerily the same exact terrain as if you just change the change the lighting of it so you just black out the the background so you don't have any of the blue you know atmosphere and then you change it so the coloring a little

bit of the the actual landscape it is identical they've taken pictures of it didn't the director of who's the director of Full Metal Jacket Doug Kubrick yeah he didn't he death on his deathbed admit to helping the US government There's a video of him saying on his deathbed maybe a video but maybe he was just messing with us, right? He's like no, no, I help imagine that it's like the best prank ever on your way out. That's like a total Kubrick move Think that you ever think yourself like on my deathbed Yeah, yeah. Hey, hey. Yeah, fuck you guys.

You guys ever think that? You ever think to yourself, like, oh, my deathbed, I'm going to tell people? I'm going to mess with somebody. Dude, I'm going to say no. Can we make a pact? I buried a million dollars out in the desert of what I. Yeah, yeah.

I'll make a pact right now. I'm just going to make it the most crazy thing ever. Like, I did that. But you can also tell people to do things, and you know they'd feel compelled. You know what I mean? Like, something you'd look at your friend and be like, I want you to.

Bro, imagine on your deathbed, if you told people that out in the middle of some desert, you buried 10 million dollars. You would, that would be like, everybody would be hunting for it. Digging. They'll find something. I was thinking more along the lines of,

you get people to do things you've always wanted them to do, but now because you're on a deathbed, they feel compelled. Like you look at your friend, you want them to get healthy. My wish on my deathbed is that you lose 50 pounds and get in shape and compete in a bodybuilding. Well that's like a positive thing. They're like, oh fuck. I was thinking about fucking with people.

You're mean. I can't do it. Wake up! Doctors, wake him up, why? He was about to tell me where the body is. That's messed up. Hey, speaking of Russia, did you see that they caught, well, it died actually, it's kind of sad.

There was a Russian spy whale. What? What's with them? They trained a whale to be a spy? Bro, they did that with dolphins way back in the day too. Doug, Google Russian spy whale. Torpedoes. What magazines are you guys subscribed to?

Some magazines, nobody reads magazines. No, it's like, weird dude. Our algorithms are so bad. Listen, dude, I've always been fascinated by like, you know, the sects of the military where they have like special forces and like things, and so they've used animals for a lot of these like spy missions and things and like,

they use dolphins to with torpedoes. They did look at see told you. Russian spy Beluga whale was found dead had multiple bullet wounds. It had like a it had like a device around its neck that they linked to Russia and it was spying I don't remember where it was spying but look at that cute what a whale. Yeah, Beluga's are the cutest Did I ever tell you the big fight Jessica and I got into one time about whales? I said the stupidest thing and I didn't mean it the way it sounds you say she look like a whale Beluga whales are adorable

No, look at her're the cutest face ever. And so I said something along those lines that she's cute. Oh Beluga whale so cute like you. She's like did you call me a whale? She was pregnant at the time. When I said it as it's coming out of my mouth and then the worst part is I was trying to defend myself. Like I didn't mean it that way. My kids were mad at me. What did you say? Did you defend myself like I didn't mean it that way. Yeah My kids were mad at me. Oh What did you say? Did you say she I didn't mean it that way? Oh Your anchovy I wasn't saying that you're They're adorable look at them like I get their faces well, they're so cute. It's a cute one of the cutest

Yeah, so who shot it. I mean do they know they don't know Yeah, they don't know Interesting right like you the first thing I wouldn't I at least I wouldn't think if I saw a little if I saw a whale Pop up and he had some stuff on its thing. I wouldn't think better shoot. It's probably a Russian spy Tracking device. Yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind to me. It's probably some sort of a tracking thing. I'm not thinking like, oh, Russian spy. They had to have known about it and been tracking it.

Oh, yeah. I think they knew what it was. They shot it. And then nobody wants to say that they shot it. Nobody would have a problem, by the way. We shot an actual Russian spy, everybody. Yeah, but it gives you a worry. We shot a Russian spy whale.

You bastards. No. So nobody's going to admit it. I bet you you're so right. Of course. And you're so right. If it it was like a person nobody care. That's hilarious. But because it's a little whale That's exactly what happened we knew about it we tracked that shit down we killed it But we're gonna tell her we know and the Russians know to we'll send a whale over that way everyone's mad America really well

Using our our woke our woke weakness. Yeah. well, we'll send PETA out there. What's up with this low tech shit? We have the Chinese balloon, right? And then we got whale. Like, what are they doing to us? I don't know. They're messing with us. Yeah, it's all, you know what it is?

It's making us think that they're that far back. We're like, god, these guys are using whales and hot air balloons. We got all these crazy drones and UFOs that we're using over here and stuff like that. They're playing with us, man. They're making us think they're making us think that they're like a hundred years behind still. You know what I'm saying? They have catapults. Donkey launchers. Oh my God. Did you see that human catapult that

I shared on my story? That's no hard that. Whoa. I want to do that. I would totally do that. I would do that. I've got to feel crazy I mean watching him for fat with that hurt like I'm wondering what you've done the blob. Haven't you done the blob before? I mean, that's the blob. Is that the big thing? Yeah, I guess it's if you if you get scared and you kind of lose your balance In the air you can really yeah. Well, yeah, if you pancake, you know Yeah, what if something gets caught in it as it's pulling you up with the balls? I don't say that You know, I mean, it looks cool though. Yeah, I would do that. I would do that for sure It's a chair that I think maybe as a kid

I would let you guys a lot of things I would do before but maybe I you would you would get hurt Yes, I've said that the other day. Did I tell you I learned how to ollie finally? You did. Yeah. And my son taught me, which was great. So are you, can you do it whenever you want? Yeah, I can do it like consistently now. Yeah, I mean not like great, but it gets all four wheels off.

Bro, are you gonna build a little half pipe for your son or what? Well, yeah. Well, I take him down to the skate park all the time. Oh, they got a good one over there. Yeah, so that's the thing. They didn't have those when we were growing up. And it's like, man, this would have been sick. Is he kick flipping yet? Or is that the next one?

That's the next one that he's working on. He's all these. He actually can move, and he can ollie over things. I can't do that. So I attribute this. I'm curious what you think I true like this is the cool part of YouTube Yeah, I feel like if we were kids, this is the type of stuff like he's doing it. I was using it I guarantee it. Yeah, like you had to have you had to meet a kid Who could do the trick who could then teach you or like what we used to do with older brother watch like VHS

Tapes, you know I'm saying like we used to do that like crazy watching wakeboard videos trying to figure out and unpack the tricks that they were Doing then we go out and try and do it like YouTube is so much better for stuff like that You talk about embarrassing right so the next day my back was like almost frozen Like I could barely move and then I was like I can't like and then that's the thing is like I at least I'm trying To do something where it's like I'm just getting out of bed. I was like, I can't. And then that's the thing, at least I'm trying to do something where it's like I'm just getting out of bed and I'm like, ugh, the same feeling. Well, that's not as bad as me,

when I watch the kids all day and my back hurts. I'm like, why? I just watch them like, do something cool. I play with my little kids. My daughter, you know what it is? My little daughter is having me play with dolls with her and I'm bending over all day and we're playing and then later in the day I'm like, ugh.

All right, more mobility work. Which brings us to the beginning of what we said, right? Fitness for life. No, you're right Stop training for aesthetics I want to be able to play longer with my kids and not feel that was my big motivation When we remember that's why you started squatting so deep right so you can play with yourself I tell you what I look I look back now was one of the best things I ever did was to kind of transition in that direction away from bodybuilder, meathead guy and move in that direction.

And the best takeaway that I got from it that I guess I didn't go in thinking this way or anticipate this was that once I regained that range of motion, mobility and strength, maintaining it is really easy. Yeah. So it was a lot of work to gain back that range of motion, mobility and strength, maintaining it is really easy. So it was a lot of work to gain back that range of motion. It was a lot of work to get comfortable down in the squat. But then once I got down there, to keep it was way easier. And so that's the best thing from that. And what I always try and tell somebody who's on the fence of like, oh, I know I need to do this work and it's, oh, it's so tedious and I don't want to do it. It's just like the cool part is if

you really truly dedicate some time and effort to getting through that keeping it is way easier, way way easier. Yeah. Alright today's shout out. So I love this dude's videos on Instagram and YouTube. He does this challenge and I first saw his videos a while ago where he says, take me down for $1,000. Now I'm- Is this the wrestler kid? Yes, his name is Giorgio Pulas.

So it's Giorgio and then P-O-U-L-L-A-S. You find him on Instagram, you can see him on YouTube. I did Judo and Jiu Jitsu, I did some wrestling, I'm a grappler, so I can see when someone's good, when someone's not. This kid, this guy's made the way he moves and stays on his feet and reverses people is like Exceptional is he is he the famous one who embarrassed the the famous big bodyguard guy?

I don't know. There's a famous like celebrity bodyguard guy That's like high-paid me bodyguard and he's huge big old jack black guy and he's jacked and I think he even does jiu-jitsu or some other they on like turf. Yeah, I don't remember what they were on but I remember it was like a big deal because he's like he is he was like this famous bodyguard dude and he's like marketing himself on social media and he's all jacked and he does jiu-jitsu also and and then he's like half his size a quarter of his size. I gotta say I gotta say this too for all the athletes out there like wrestlers are especially when you're good you're

like like D1 college level if you're like really really good you get to like that Olympic level you're on another level of of athlete and wrestlers are just yeah they're insane you don't want to tangle with a good wrestler because they'll they'll put you on your head stamina They got everything everything dude and their balance and it's just insane So washing him go against dudes and then they'll get them but they don't he flay turns it around He went against one kid one kid lied to him and said, oh, I just did a little high school wrestling But it was actually a state champion. So they start going and you could see, uh oh, he's actually pretty good. A lot of posturing.

Yeah, and then after, no, he beat him, he still won. But afterwards, the kid told him, oh, I'm actually a... Has he lost? Has anyone got him or anything? I haven't seen him, I don't know if he's ever, if he has, but he hasn't posted it. All the ones he posted, he wanted...

What level did he get to, did he say? No, it's a good, I haven't looked him up. He's gotta be a high, he's very high level wrestler. Well, yeah. Very high level when you watch him. Smart. State Liberty makes formal wear that was designed for athletic build men. If you got muscles, if you got delts,

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Use the code MPUMP15. You'll get 15% off your first order. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Matt from Colorado. What's up, Matt? How can we help you? What's up, buddy? Hey guys, it's so awesome to be on the show.

Thanks for having me. Before I ask my question, I just wanted to say thank you for the positive influence. I thought I was pretty good at listening to people and being generous and patient and gracious with my time. I have my own professional life and then I started listening to you guys about three years ago and realized I had a long way to go so just wanted to say thank you for the huge influence in that respect and making me better. Thanks man, That's nice. That very nice compliment. Awesome. So, uh, the question I wanted to ask is, um, I'm a 37 year old father and emergency

physician, um, and based on listening to you guys for the last few years, I think your advice for my lifestyle and schedule would be to do maps 15, um, I tend to work four to five morning shifts, uh, which is like 7 AM to 3 PM, four to five evening shifts, which is like 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. four to five evening shifts, which is like 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. And then really anywhere from one to four overnight shifts, which is 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. every month. And I will be doing that for at least 13 years before I age out of night shifts or change my career. So with my constantly changing sleep time, I also have a four-month-old and a two-year-old. I try to be as present as possible with my wife and my kids. I'm pretty good about diet, consistency with working out, and sleep hygiene, but it's still

a pretty big hindrance to my progress and my recovery. I think for like the next year or so, you'd have me do MAPS 15. I have that program and I really enjoy it. But I also want to be able to do other programs like performance, performance advance, power lift. My question was actually inspired by the performance advance launch. I really salivated when you talked about why non-athletes should do that program. So I have no idea how to really modify programs, um, for my jobs impact on my ability to sleep and recover. So I was hoping for any general teaching points on how to modify

mass programs, or if you have any other tips for, uh, people that are going to be doing shift work and definitely are difficult lifestyles. Really, really good. Great question. Good question. Okay. So two young kids, emergency room physician. I trained quite a few emergency room physicians and you guys are just,

you're just made differently. I think you guys thrive on adrenaline and stress. I've never met anybody that just seems to feed off of it as much as you guys. And so you're spot on with what you think. MAPS 15 is going to be what you're gonna be doing probably for the next 13 years or so. Now the way you modify the workouts, it's less modifying our other programs

and more about modifying Maps 15. That's right. So Maps 15 is your format. And the modifications would look something like this. I'll swap out this exercise for this other one I'll switch out the rep range for this other rep range But the same the skeleton the the the framework of it the two exercises a day Is going to be what it's what it's going to look like and the exercises swap out would be more like, you know

I need some more rotation. I need some more lateral exercises like you know I need some more rotation I need some more lateral exercises maybe I'll borrow some sled movements or some bodyweight movements and you can borrow exercises from other programs but the the programming is really going to revolve around math 15 so rather than looking at our other programs and trying to make those look more like math 15 you're gonna take math 15 and you're just gonna modify exercises here and there based off of your goals and your needs and that's really it.

I don't see you doing with the shift, like with the shifts that you're following, I don't see it being appropriate to do really any of our other programs except for that one. Do you already own Performance Advance or do you have Performance? Do you have either one of those? I have a performance, I don't have performance advance yet.

Because what we could do is we could send over to you the performance advance and then you literally do exactly what Sal's saying. And so there's gonna be exercises in there that are unique. Just pull them in there. That are unique to performance advance and then you're literally looking at your

map 15 skeleton and you're like, oh, you know what? Instead of barbell back squats, I'm gonna do this you know Bulgarian split sand squats here so you'll just literally whatever muscle group that you are supposed to do in map 15 that day you can slot in a movement that you see inside of maps performance advanced that would be the easiest way to do it and then I mean I guess there would be some latitude like to, if you were to add, like so if there's days where you want to add a small exercise to that, I just wouldn't get carried away with that, right? Trying to turn it into a full blown MAPS performance program because I think we've already agreed

that the volume in MAPS 15 is probably appropriate for you. So switching just one exercise for another is probably the best route. Now one word of caution, when you switch an exercise, it's better to switch the movement and then stick with that movement for a while. In other words, don't switch out all the time because there's a learning curve

and there's a central nervous system adaptation period that happens that you wanna move into so that you can start to really reap the benefit. So let's say one of the exercises recommended in Mass 15 is let's say it's a deadlift, but you're like, okay, I'm gonna switch that out for a single leg deadlift. Something similar, okay? When you switch it out, don't switch it out

and then go back to other things. Stay with it for like four, five, six weeks. Get good at it before deciding to move into something else. That would be the best approach. Yeah. I think, yeah, to all that's great. I think the very first focus after you've been going through a cycle of Mass 15 long enough is to really just kind of pick apart lateral movements and rotational movements and

have that just be the focus for like, you know, a month and just stick with it and stick with those that you've swapped out, you know. And then if you have that MAPS Performance Advanced, I think if you go through that and you actually look at some of the skills training days, there's very specific, like to move quickly is something that we kind of promote is just something that to keep as far as like an attribute that will also be preventative for injuries and things down the road. So, you know, something like that where maybe a speed is a focus, maybe, you know, more power movements is a focus. But again, this would be like further down, you know, as you've been training for a while

doing the Maps 15 format, like that would be something you could pursue, you know, and just implement it for like a month and kind of run with that and then go right back kind of to your baseline Maps 15 format. Now to be just straight up, you know, a lot of our programs are specific to a particular type of avatar, okay?

So whether it be bodybuilding or power lifting or mobility or athleticism, MAPS 15 is one of those programs that's one of the most well-rounded in the way it was programmed. Because the idea, the avatar was the person who is gonna benefit from this kind of workout and who's gonna need to work out this way.

And so it wasn't necessarily a specific avatar like bodybuilding, powerlifting, right? It was more like, let's make it really well-rounded so somebody could follow this for a long time and not develop issues. For example, if you follow powerlift, it's great for powerlifting, great for deadlift, squat, bench press.

But if you keep following powerlift over and over and over again, lateral stability will start to fall off, rotational strength will start to fall off, you'll lose some strength, stamina, because it's really focused on powerlifting. Maps 15 is one of the most well-balanced programs that we have. It's one of the programs I would say

you could probably run indefinitely, and you're really not gonna run into problems like you would with other programs. So keep that in mind as well. That's exactly how we created that. The idea was, okay, if I only got 15 to 20 minutes with a client for the rest of their life and I've got to build the best program for overall health, strength, performance, all above, what would it kind of look like? Maps 15 really is. It doesn't have anything that's missing, is my point. Yeah.

But that being said, it doesn't mean also that you can't have maps reformed in advance and see a skill or an exercise you want to learn or get good at. Right. And you're like, hey, you know what? Yeah, I want to get good at that movement or I want to learn how to do that or I want to see how strong I can get in that movement

and you want to switch it out, totally fine. But, Maps 15, the way it's set up, you can really run that. It won't create imbalances. I think that's the big point here. Other programs can create imbalances if you don't phase out of them, but Math 15 won't. One follow-up question. If I'm on a night period, whether it's one night or two nights in a row, what I've been doing, and I was hoping to get your take on this is after I'm done with the night periods, I'll get home at 8 a.m., sleep for four or five hours, get up that day. I won't do anything other than walk. And then my wife's pretty cool about letting me get like nine, 10 hours of sleep that next night to switch back to sleeping like a normal person. So, so I don't do any workout on that day. And that's like an off day. And then I just pick up right where I left off as if.

I love that. Just didn't almost like a list format working out, if that makes sense. No, it's perfect. So the way math 15 is written, it's like six days in a row, but you don't have to do them in a row. It could be three days, take a couple of days off, start back up. You want to take at least one or two days off a week. That's why we wrote, take a couple days off, start back up. You want to take at least one or two days off a week. That's why we wrote it the way we did. But the way you should follow it is exactly what you said. Your intuition is 100%. That's exactly what I would tell clients.

It's your schedule. Yes. Awesome. Thank you guys. I'm super excited to work on the landmine stuff and all the performance advanced stuff. And I really appreciate your generosity. You got it, Matt. real quick. Are you taking any supplements to help with the stress and recovery and that kind of stuff? Yeah, you're so right that it's a drop in the bucket, but I still do it anyway, because I think it helps. So I do magnesium, ashwagandha, vitamin D,

a multivitamin, and then I use low dose melatonin sparingly to switch my schedule back when I need to. Nice. And then I do 10 grams of creatine for the cognitive benefits with night's tea. You got it. That was everything. You got it, man.

Yeah. Awesome, perfect. You guys are great. Thank you so much, I appreciate you. You got it brother. He's on the right track. Totally on the right track. Yeah, you know, I mean you know this Justin,

your wife worked in this space. These emergency room doctors and nurses, it's like stress makes them feel good. Yeah, I mean it's like juice. It's like juice. It's like juice. Yeah, the way I used to train these doctors back in the day, because a session isn't 20 minutes, it's an hour,

I'd train them once a week. I would train them once a week, and then they would try to stay active on their own, and more than once a week, rarely could we do it without starting to burn them out, because that schedule, that swing schedule, and then you add two little kids on top of it. Oh yeah, super rough.

Our next caller is Rostin from Texas. What's up Rostin? What's going on Rostin? How you doing? Hey guys, thanks for having me. Yeah, you got it man. How can we help you? Yeah, you guys are a lot prettier on camera

than you are with just your voices on the podcast. Oh wow. Stop it. Thank you, I appreciate it. You've been imagining this weird. Well yeah, imagining is the right word. I was jumping to my question. Howdy from Texas.

I started TRT about two months ago and I'm wanting some guidance from y'all on if I should change anything about my training now. Well, background, I run our local habitat for humanity and I have a daughter with autism. So I have a decent amount of stress. That's just normal for my life. I turned 40 a couple of weeks ago and I've been training on MAPS programs for almost a year and a half, which is also the entire extent of my lifting experience. I'm a former cardio bunny, CrossFit queen and crash dieter who started lifting because I was tired of the yo-yo of typical weight loss attempts. I started looking at TRT when I

kept gaining weight on a scale without increasing my lifts. My primary care physician tracked my dropping testosterone for a couple of years, but because it was always over 250, the last time he checked it was over, it was in the low 300s. He didn't think an intervention was necessary. So then I went to a local hormone specialist and he tested it at just under 200 with additional low thyroid. So he prescribed both testosterone and thyroid medication. He saw an in-body, or he has an in-body scan in his office. And the two months since I started those medications, I've gone up by five pounds. However, I've lost 1.5 pounds of fat and gained eight pounds of muscle with my overall body fat percentage going down by 3.4%. It's what I hope

for when I first started lifting. I'm six foot two and 265 pounds. I'm a naturally really big framed guy. Whenever you guys talk about y'all's own bodies, I always vibe more how Justin talks about his body. So I'm guessing a healthy weight for a reasonably lean version of me would be somewhere between 210 and 220. But I honestly have no way of knowing that since I've never been like a really fit person. I do care much more about getting leaned

than the weight on the scale, because y'all have been consistently indoctrinating me for quite some time. I'm finishing phase three, sorry, I'll edit this one. I just finished phase three of Anabolic a couple weeks ago, and I just started performance for the second time. I've also run maps 15 and 40 plus. So my question, so I just keep running the programs I've been running and

continue to Marvel as my body leans out. Is there something else I should try? Um, should I push myself harder now that my testosterone is finally, finally working right, which I'm 99% sure y'all are going to say no to that, but I just like asking you the question because I think you like answering it. Um, I'm also concerned that in the last six months I haven't been specifically running a bulk but I've gained about 25 pounds in that time without my major lifts increasing. My in-body scan says that I'm at 36% body

fat so my hunch is that you guys would suggest that I bulk given where I'm at but I'm also like I've gained so much in the recent months that I'm scared honestly to do that because of my hormones and stress. Now, good question. And good detail. Yeah, one of the worst mistakes people make or biggest mistakes people make when they go on TRT is they change their workout routine.

That's the wrong thing to do. So here's what happens. You go on TRT, your testosterone went from low to probably normal high. Do you know, by the way, where you're testing now while on TRT? So it's only been two months and we just did my latest labs.

So after a week, so it's just the one shot a week thing. And so they tested me the morning before I got my shot and it was at like 450 for that one. So they bumped it up again. So I'll be, I think I'll do another test in like a month and a half or two. Okay, so you're still regulating that. Okay, so yeah, it's a big mistake to change

anything about your training, because here's what happens when you go from low to high normal, is you're naturally gonna get stronger. And that means your volume is naturally gonna increase. So even if you did the exact same workout, but now you're lifting more weight, the volume already is gonna go up and start to match kind of your body's capabilities. Don't change anything. I've seen too many people go on

TRT and they think, oh my god I'm on testosterone now I need to go double my volume and they just negate any of the potential benefits they get from the testosterone and burn themselves out. And the problem is one of the, I don't know if you consider an advantage or disadvantage to TRT is your testosterone is high no matter what so some of that signal that I'm over training gets a little blunted and so people could get misdirected with this like I think I feel okay but meanwhile they're over training and they're stalling the progress now the lean body mass gain that you saw on the short period of time is is most likely

some intracellular water muscle gain that the lean muscle mass gain that you saw in the short period of time is most likely some intracellular water. Muscle gain, the lean muscle tissue gain takes a little longer to build, but that's okay because it's not bad, it's intracellular. So that's a good thing, that's why your body fat percentage went down, is your weight went up a little bit but it wasn't fat mass, so your percentage

went down as a result. As far as losing weight goes, do you track your calories? Do you know where you're at with your macros or any of that? Because that's where I would start first. Yeah, I've tracked before. I've really loved any times, the times when y'all talked on y'all's podcast about having the emphasis on just tracking the protein

and not doing the calories. And I don't want to have all the anxiety around my weight that I've had for most of my adult life, which is one of the reasons I started listening to you guys. I love the way I'll talk about health overall. I have not been tracking calories intentionally for the last few months, but I wouldn't be surprised if it'd be the right thing to do.

Yeah. I mean, if you track the protein and you do a really good job of eating whole foods, I wouldn't care that much, but I would want to know how good you are at that. Like, are you good most of the time, but then you have these, these days or nights where you kind of trail off and you eat, you have things that probably you shouldn't be eating or are you really consistent with eating whole foods? Because to me that would make the biggest difference on whether I felt like I needed you to

track or not. Yeah no I mean 99% okay that if you hit protein you said you want to weigh about 210 to 220 so I would say hit 200 grams of protein from whole foods eat it first avoid heavily processed food, and what'll happen, and like I said, I'm 90 plus percent positive this will happen if you do that and you follow appropriate workouts is you're going to get leaner. You're going to slowly get leaner as you build muscle without having to track anything else. But you've got to be real consistent with that, the two parts. Hit the protein, whole natural foods, avoid heavily processed foods.

Otherwise, it really starts to throw things off. Another strategy I like to do too, depending on where you're at and what, I don't know how sedentary your job is and what your days look like, and I don't know if you're tracking steps, but that's a real easy, when I have somebody who has a sedentary job

and they're maybe moving 4,000 steps or less a day, simply incrementally moving them up by 2,000 steps or less a day. Simply incrementally moving them up by, you know, 2,000 steps a week over the course of, you know, a few months can make a dramatic difference in that too. So I don't know if you've tracked your kind of movement in a day. Are you sedentary or do you move a lot? What's it look like? I'm pretty sedentary. My, our office is out in the middle of nowhere. And so like getting up and trying to go for a walk around the neighborhood would be walking on a highway. And so I was kind of trying to do, that has not felt exciting to me.

And so like, yeah, but that I'm not surprised to hear you say that. I mean, there's, there's other things too. We can, we can, it could become something that you try and get up before you head off to work and when you're at home you could do it when you get back home afterwards They make on Amazon now that my sister just bought one One of those deaths where you're kind of walking like just the treadmill part like where you're just kind of walking on that That's also a possibility. I'm it's just an easy thing to increase total

movement for the day without like oh to increase total movement for the day without like, oh, prescribing cardio or prescribing a major calorie cut. Just simply doing that could make enough of a deficit for you while following what we're saying without putting all this overly emphasizing the calorie tracking and stuff. That's just a decent strategy. Now, you mentioned like performance in Maps 15.

What are you running right now? And how did those compare to your cardio queen stuff and your CrossFit, how did you describe it? The CrossFit queen? Yeah, yeah, I can't remember which phase it is in Maps 15. I think it's phase four where it feels most like CrossFit and it like seriously kicks my ass. So like I'm doing that for the second time right now. Performance. And I'm already sorry performance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing performance for the second time right now.

And I'm more I'm in phase one right now. I'm already nervous about phase four coming up. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's good. You're in the right. Listen, I like maps, anabolic, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. You're in the right. Listen, I like Maps Anabolic, Maths 15, Maths Symmetry, Maths Performance. Those are the programs that you should probably cycle through.

Have you tried Symmetry? No, I've never tried Symmetry. It's looked interesting, but I haven't done it. Oh, I'd love that for you. You need to do that. I would love that for you. Send that over to you. Can I send that to you?

Okay. Sure. Yeah. Should I stop performance and do symmetry or finish performance and do symmetry? You can finish it through. Yeah. And then just switch over right after. It's a great bridge program too, like after any of our major ones, like performance, uh, anabolic or aesthetic. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. That'd be great. I definitely think incorporating a walk and get steps up would do it. 100%.

And even on like, you're also another client that a great thing to do is like, I would prescribe on your days off, encourage like a nice long hike, just walking, but make that like a, start to become a ritual on your Saturday or Sunday that when you start your day, get up first thing in the morning and just go for a nice walk. Leisure walk, not crazy, not aggressive. I'm not asking you to run, but just go for a nice long hour walk. This is something that I think could make a big difference if you have a pretty sedentary

job, makes a big difference. Yeah, it's really helpful. Honestly, now that you're saying it that way, I think that would be helpful with stress difference if you have a pretty sedentary job makes a big difference. Yeah, it's really helpful. I mean, honestly, now that you're saying it that way, I think that would be helpful with stress too, whenever. So before I started listening to you guys and started lifting, I was doing, I did a lot of running for years. I ran a marathon two and a half years ago. Uh, it was, it was like a, what was life goal things.

And one of the best parts about it is that I would be out on the run and it would become almost meditative. Like I'd listen to podcasts while I was running and then half the time I just turn off the podcast and just pray. And it was incredible. And I lost that whenever, you know, you get home from the run and all of a sudden you're with the kids and that stuff is not possible anymore. And it feels like two birds with one stone kind of thing. Oh, I mean, bro, you just sold me on why I would definitely make you do that. For sure. Yeah, just because you already see the value in that, and so it is, you're killing two birds with one stone,

you're going to get tremendous value from that, from being able to meditate, relax, pray, bring down the stress in your life. In addition to that, you're doing something healthy and good for you and moving. Yeah, I would totally encourage you to do that. Yeah, that's really helpful. Okay. Awesome. We'll send over symmetry to you and then keep us posted. I'd like to hear how you're doing in another 30, 60 days. I think with the TRT, the track you're going right now, and then if we incorporate some increasing the steps and the walks on the weekends, I think that you'll already start to see a nice process of leaning out. Yeah, that's helpful. The funny thing is you listen to you guys, you say this all the time,

you listen to you guys enough and you can almost guess what you guys are going to say. So it's like y'all are not surprising me too much. I mean, Justin, you know, Adam hasn't made a car reference yet and, you know, Sal hasn't talked about his grandkids yet, but other than that. Good deal. Right on Ross. We talked a little longer. It'll come out. Thank you guys. Appreciate y'all. So, okay. When I, when I have somebody like this, and again, he already said enough to me,

like, this is for sure what I'm doing with him. He's doing good hitting whole foods. He's hitting his protein intake, but we also don't want to get into like the tracking and what that does, right? Okay, cool. So that's step one. Next, very easily, I can make a massive impact on this guy by incorporating, increasing our steps on a daily basis. And then on the weekends,

we go for these long one hour walks in it. And then once he told me what he has, what he got in the past from running and being outside like that, that's the biggest impact that right there. I mean, that's enough for me to be like, Oh, you should do that no matter what. But then when I also know that you already have a really sedentary job like that, you just, we need that activity We need to include that activity on a regular basis and it's not a major commitment to say hey

You know what every morning when I first get up, I'm not gonna change my clothes I'm gonna roll out and just go for a walk for an hour and to be very clear It's not even about the calorie burn that those walks will produce. It's about the improvement in his overall Yes, which then has a considerable impact on his ability to lose weight, feel better, strength train, all that stuff. And listen, and if he pays attention to this, he'll make these connections. And I think making these connections are paramount to being consistent and sticking with this.

By getting up and doing that, say on Saturdays, let's say, one of the things you'll also notice aside from the decompressing and the stress relief, the activity that you're going to get for the extra steps in Caliburn, and then also watch the productivity and attitude you have the rest of that day. I swear it'll make a difference on that. If you can connect that to like, oh wow, man, every time I do those walks, then I'm more active throughout the entire day and I'm in a better mood, that makes a big difference. Our next caller is Dallas from Florida.

What's up Dallas? What's going on Dallas? How can we help you? Hey guys, what's going on, man? It's the absolute pleasure to be on. Um, I really look up to you guys. Um, I've been a trainer for about eight years now. And, um, I feel like, um, after listening to you guys for the past, maybe three or

four years, I've learned so much. So shout out to you guys. Thank you so much for that. Appreciate it, man. What you got for us. So, um, yeah, so, um, I actually got into personal training because I was in a weight loss journey myself. I lost over a hundred pounds probably like 10 years ago. So my family and friends are trying to figure out, you know, how to do it. So I end up becoming a personal trainer. I was like actually successful to keep it off for a little bit. And then just recently maybe about 15 months ago, the weight did start to creep back up. So just for context, I'm 65 250 pounds. But I feel like my sweet spot is probably around 230

Of course, I have done calorie deficits before and track in my macros and things like that But I noticed it becomes really really Annoying for me to like weight every single thing making sure I'm on point with that. So I kind of wanted something a little bit easier in a sense for me to kind of for me not to think about it. So I guess for my question is, is what do you guys think of alternate fasting? I know, Sal, you're big on the spiritual aspect of fasting and not not more so on like that, the health side. But I just kind of want to get your thoughts on that.

So to be clear, alternate day fasting, is that where you only eat within a certain time frame every other day or is that a complete fast every other day? It's a complete fast every other day. So similar to the one meal a day or the OMAD, for instance, if I was going to fast today, I wouldn't eat at all for Wednesday or for the day that I'll be in and then the next day I would consume and then I would pretty much do it alternately that way. So it's a very black and white way of creating a calorie deficit. The problem is you're setting yourself up for a binge restrict behavior if you're not already noticing that. So, you know, I cannot eat all day for one day and then it sets me up for the following day where I can eat a lot or I want to eat a lot and then don't worry I won't eat again the following day. So behavior-wise it does tend to encourage

especially in every other day type approach a behavior or relationship with food that is not really sustainable. Physiologically speaking fasting that often can have some stress effects on the body but I guess that's really that's really going to be based on your overall stress, overall training and all that stuff, but I don't like the kind of behaviors that it tends to encourage, especially with someone who lost a hundred pounds. To be a hundred pounds overweight, there were some big changes that you had to make and you've maintained them or you've started to maintain them for ten years, but there's some stuff there

that's still challenging like you said like you don't want to weigh and count and measure So you have yet to find that peace with nutrition where you go about and it's a relaxed Feeling around food and so I get the allure of Alternate day fasting. It's like okay, I Two rules don't eat or eat and And that's all I gotta worry about. But what we wanna do is get you a place, Dallas, where the rules are, they don't necessarily feel like rules. They just feel like this is just kinda how I care for myself.

I know it's easier said than done, but the approach you're going on, I can't help but think it's gonna contribute to this on-off mentality. There's also another challenge that it presents too. You're not a tiny little petite guy and to get the adequate protein that you need to sustain the muscle mass, that also would be, because that's the challenge that comes to mind for me right away.

Like if I were to do something like this, we'll be like, man, how do I still average out enough protein in the week to sustain my muscle mass too. So that's the other challenge with this is not just the psychological one and the binge restrict relationship that it can cause or promote, but also just to be able to consistently hit your protein intake. And I'm sure you're a trainer and stuff like that, that muscle is important to you. That would be the other thing. Yeah, that'd be the to you. That would be the other thing. Definitely. Yeah, that'd be the other thing

that I would probably be concerned. Now, considering you're a trainer, this also adds a kind of a different twist. I'm always pro coaches and trainers trying a lot of this stuff. Who better than to test it so you can speak to it and communicate, I mean, it's part of why I did the trisepatite journey.

It's not because I needed to do trisepatite and lose a bunch of ways. Like, man, I wanted to experience what it's like to go through that so I can then communicate even better to clients. So I'm totally a fan of, you know, you testing diets and trying things like that as a coach and a trainer, because I think it just is going to make you better at what you do. But as far as it being a long-term solution a trainer because I think it just is going to make you better at what you do. But as far as it being a long-term solution for you, I think Sal's on the right path of,

you know, I think I'd eventually want to get you to a place where there just isn't a lot of stress around the food and you don't feel like you have to be following this specific diet in order to maintain the physique that you want. So that would be my kind of two cents on the idea. You know, here's a couple things that might help you with this if you don't want to get off this structure.

On the days you don't eat, what are you replacing eating with? On the days that I don't eat. So for instance, I would have a black coffee and I will actually have some water for sure a whole bunch of water I'll make sure I'm extremely hydrated and what I'll actually do is um I'll sprinkle some pink Himalayan salt in my water too um if I'm going to do anything but typically on the days that I fast I make sure I don't really do any type of any crazy

workouts or anything like that. If anything, I may be going for a 20 minute walk if that. So what I meant was what you want to do is on those fasting days, if you want to really take advantage of the potential is I would really, I would try to find actions or behaviors or practices that are gonna help you with your relationship to food. So meditation, prayer, journaling, reflection is what I would do rather than just not eating. And that could help a little bit. Then the days you do eat, are they planned meals? Are they meals that you prepped yourself? Or is it more like a cool, I can eat now,

and then whatever I feel like type of deal? So just two things I would do with something like this is I'd say, okay, the days I don't eat, let me take advantage of this fast, not the calorie-restricted part, but the behavior aspect of it. Can I reflect, can I journal, can this be a, can my fast days be personal growth days?

Can I view these as days of personal growth? And then my eating days, can those be more structured in terms of my meal prep? And then here's the food that I eat, and I still avoid heavily processed foods. Because what you don't want to do, like I said, is just not eat-eat, because it'll turn into restrict binge, restrict binge, if you're not already experiencing that.

Dallas, we didn't even ask you, how did you put the 20 back on do you have do I mean what would you attribute the the 20 pounds that you put back on to that's actually a good question I'm still trying to figure that out so around this time last year I got my hormones checked. My testosterone was on the floor. It was at like 163. I was actually taking Clomid and that helped me actually raise it up. So what ended up happening was I got off my own, like it wasn't even Dr. Sting got off club made and then my testosterone plummeted again So then I start taking Coleman again I start getting the benefits of that but then what I realized is that second time around me taking club mid I Noticed a jump in my weight and I know typically

Sometimes you may have a little bit more of water retention Maybe like 10 or 15 pounds, but it was about like 20 pounds because I weigh myself every week and I noticed a jump literally in two months. Okay, so you could have some estrogenic effects from Clomid-2. Are you still taking it?

Yeah. Okay. Do you have the ability to work with a hormone specialist? Because doing this on your own, you're gonna be, there's a lot of shots in the dark you'll be taking. I probably should tap in with Dr. Cabral probably. No, well, I mean, he's a functional medicine practitioner

so he could help, but if you're doing hormones, go to mphormones.com, talk to our people there. How old are you? Okay, I'm 38. Okay, so I mean testosterone replacement therapy would probably be a better option, but I would talk to the doctors there. And by the way, Dallas,

this could be a massive game changer for you. If your testosterone's on the floor, you have abnormally high estrogen levels, and you balance your hormone levels out, and you consistently train like the trainer that you are, when you have these days where maybe you have a little additional calories because you don't really track, it's gonna get partitioned to building muscle.

And one of the hardest things is when your hormone levels are off like that, it doesn't feel like that. In fact, it feels like any extra calories go right to storing as body fat, even if you are working out and doing these things you're supposed to. So I can't stress enough about that. This may solve a lot of this challenge. The mystery.

Yeah. This mystery of like the, the weight and the calories and the food thing. It's like, you may be able to, if your hormones are balanced and right, you may be able to eat very normally and not really worry about any sort of negative weight gain. And actual testosterone replacement is very inexpensive. But if that's the issue, it's like a game changer. I mean, you go from low to high normal, that's a big game changer for someone

like you. And with Clomid and estrogen being high and gaining weight, it could be water, it could definitely be body fat. And you'll notice body fat storage will look a little different, more in the chest, more in the arms. So if you're noticing those things, I would definitely go to mphormones.com, that's our people, those are doctors, you're not working with some gray market weird stuff,

and send them your labs. If you have labs, send it to them and see what they recommend. Yeah. Yes, it'll be worth it, Dallas. It'll be well worth it, Dallas. Totally. Yep. Yep.

Thank you so much. And again, with the whole alternate day fasting, um, it was, um, it was very similar to what she said, Justin. Um, not just, um, yeah, it's like my whole thing is I'm not married to this idea. It was more so of me kind of just, uh, trying it out just to see, um, how I feel about it and just to kind of get some feedback from my from my body. Yeah okay yeah I'm all for that like coaches and trainers I'm all for trying all kinds of weird diets whatever because I think you're gonna get clients you're gonna get clients that ask it you're gonna get clients that do things similar to it and you going through it can speak to the the pros and cons of it after you've experienced it so I'm all for that but I go get the hormone yeah by the way hang up I want you to go to mphormones.com

because I want you to solve that. And just so you know fasting can have an adverse effect on testosterone especially if it's already low. Especially full days of fasting it's not like you're just missing a few meals. Yeah absolutely I mean the combination of losing a hundred pounds the fasting like this you're 38 you know you're not a spring chicken anymore, all these things are working against you testosterone wise. You go solve that and it may make this whole pressure stress around the food completely go away for you. All right Dallas. Yeah that sounds good. I'm definitely going to tap in with them and take it from there. I appreciate you guys taking this

call. You got it, man. All right, good luck, brother. Yeah. Once he mentioned the testosterone, yeah, it's fun. It's the people are just taking Clomid on their own. Uh, this is a, you know, these are, uh, estrogen receptor blocking, uh, drugs, but that doesn't mean when you block the receptor that you get no estrogenic effects. There's some estrogenic effects.

Now the reason why a man might take it with low testosterone is the body gets a signal because the receptors are blocked. We're not having enough estrogen. The way they produce estrogen by making more testosterone, converting it to estrogen. So it can raise testosterone. It's true, but if you look at the side effects of Clomid, weight gain, mood swings, and estrogenic side effects are listed underneath them. That's where that 20 pounds came from.

You know, it's crazy because I've experienced in my life being a young 20-year-old taking testosterone when I didn't need it. When I did that, and looking back, right, this is me telling, sharing my whole kind of journey, it didn't really feel as magical as I thought it was going to be in my 20s. Everyone said it was like, I thought like, man, I'd take it and I'd look like the cover of the magazine. Absolutely. It's the opposite of what happened for me. It was really unfortunate. But then I've also been later on in my life where my testosterone was in its floor, right? And I did everything, I was doing everything to try to bring it up naturally. And then

finally kind of throw my hands up going, okay, I'm going gonna get back on TRT. And that was like life changing. Yeah, to go from low to, when you need it. When you need it. When you're deficient. Yeah, when you're deficient, like, yeah, and Grant, I'm not saying that testosterone doesn't help no matter what, I'm not saying that, but it's like huge difference. When you are, when you're deficient in that

and you get that help, it's like, cause I remember going through that and it would feel like this. It felt like, even if I was just slightly off from being perfect in the diet, like it just felt like it went right to body fat. It felt like as much as my- Everything was a grind too.

Everything was a grind. When I'm training hard and consistent and it felt like I couldn't build any muscle, like it is a very frustrating place to be in when you're there and just solving that, whoa, it makes a huge difference around calorie balance and exercises and all that stuff. So I hope he does it. Our next caller is Beth from Maryland.

Hi Beth. Hello. How can we help you? Hi guys. How you doing? Oh, thanks for having me. I'm really excited. Yeah, great.

All right, I'll just jump into the question, get things going. All right. This was written in April, so things are a little bit different. I'll just read it as I wrote it, and we'll go from there. 41 years old, been an athlete my whole life

and have been lifting for the last four years. Five, seven, I was 156 and when, uh, and I spent the prettiest fall and winter eating at a maintenance, which was roughly about 2300 calories. When I sent in the question, I was lifting three days a week. I have a sedentary job, but managed to stay pretty active, riding horses four days a week and chasing around two young boys. I do average about 10,000 steps a day. After 12 weeks into my cut, I was worried that I went too aggressively and that I hit a plateau before I reached my goal. I started the cut at 1800 calories and gradually dropped down to 1650.

And since the start of that cut, I had only lost about six pounds and had not lost any in several weeks. I know the scale is not always a reliable metric, but I don't know what else to go by. My energy was good, my sleep was good, and since I didn't have a significant amount of fat to lose, I didn't know if the fit of my clothes would change that much. I was hoping to lose about 10 to 12 pounds. And since I doubt I put any muscle in on in that deficit, I really thought the weight would go down. So I just want to know what I'm doing wrong. Good question. Okay, so let's what is there things since then? Yeah, is there what has changed? So we know what's going on with that too? Okay, so after being, for us, presenting in that question, I basically went back up to a maintenance.

I did a reverse diet and now I'm eating like 25, 26 hundred calories a day. I'm doing anabolic, so I'm going through that program now and I do feel stronger. I have put on about eight or nine pounds and I hadn't been looking at the scale just so that I wouldn't let that affect my habits But The thing that I I so in my 20s I had spent a lot of time

under eating and using the Stimulant diet pills and I didn't have a period for like, I don't know, like six years. It wasn't great. And it feels like every time I try and go into a cut now, since I've come out of that, it's like more than just a couple of weeks into that deficit. And I, my body will down regulate like so fast.

And I don't know if that's just me making an excuse or if that's something that would actually happen. No, it does. It does happen. Does happen. Yeah. Are you okay. So do you know what your body fat percentage is that?

Cause that'll help me answer this. I have, I don't know. I'd be guessing and I don't know if I'm an accurate guess. Okay. I suggest a fair amount of muscle. Yeah. And okay. And also what kind of athlete were you what sports did you play? All sorts lacrosse basketball soccer, you know Tell me about your lifts your what is your squat deadlifts overhead press bench press give me some ideas of your strength

Back squat when I was doing like three to four reps, because now I'm an anabolic, I just finished the pre-phase, so I was doing like a lighter weight. But before that, I could squat 180, I could leg press, I could leg press a shit ton more than my squat. I could put like seven plates on the leg press. And I could deadlift 245. Oh.

Oh, you're strong. You're really5. Oh, you're strong. You're really strong. Yeah, you're strong. Beth, so I don't know what your body fat percentage is. You're probably in a good healthy range because of your background of under eating and over training, which is what you probably did as an athlete. You lost your period. That's a really good barometer on that for women.

You know, your, your body's probably pretty resistant to a calorie deficit. So okay, the question is what do I do then? Well there's two things. Number one, I don't think you should chase any body fat percentage lower than like 18 or 17, but that's lean. That's pretty lean. If you got down to that, you'd probably be pretty satisfied. I think you should probably live in the 20 to 23 percent range. I think that's a good lean body fat. If you're higher than that, the way you get down to that is slow at maintenance. What you do is you create the deficit through continuing to get stronger.

Your focus should just be performance, getting stronger. Don't go into a crazy bulk, but don't go into a crazy cut. I would do kind of like undulating calorie days, some days lower, some days a little higher, averaging out to right around maintenance. And then let your body kind of grow into, let your metabolism grow into the deficit that'll produce the leanness. With someone like you, and I've worked with people like you with a long athletic background, especially female athletes, they just over train like crazy, under eat. uh, and, and what ends up happening, we go into deficit. It's as if the body is, has a memory.

And I believe this to be true. I believe the central nervous system has a memory and you've taught your body to be able to become extremely efficient very quickly. And so you go into deficit, you'll see some results and then it's like nothing. Um, and so I think you should probably live around maintenance with some shortcuts and short bulks within that and really just focus on your performance in the gym. And I would get a body fat test and see where you're at. See what range you're in and if you're already in that low 20 percentage, I mean

you could try getting a little lower if you want but that's probably where you want to stay. Beth, you're doing great. Your numbers, everything, and actually your story is very similar to Katrina. And when I first started helping her, I don't know if you've heard me share the story, but we were together for a good five, six years before I even took hold of her training program,

because I didn't want to step in and do that until she wanted me to do that. And this is her only way of getting down five or 10 pounds, which she'd add all this crazy running and cut hard calories just to see five pounds at best. That was kind of like where she was at. And literally what you did is the direction I sent her and it's like, okay, I'm not, we're not doing any more of these runs. I'm going to increase your calories and let's go get strong as fuck.

That's our goal. We're going to go get strong. We're going to get your back squat up we're gonna get your deadlift up and just slowly increase calories over time and Where we ended up is a very similar calorie where you're at now to where she was eating 3,000 calories not doing cardio and now her body was just starting to lean out and so you I don't think your answer is gonna Be in deficits, although I would allow this just for the mental part for her. So when we were going on this journey, and she would get a little discouraged

because she feels like she's not progressing with that. And I keep you increasing calories so she's not seeing this. I'd let her do like a week or two week drop in calories just so she could see that kind of movement. And then I go right back to the calorie maintenance to surplus. And so I wouldn't be against you

interrupting that sometimes, like with a one to two week cut, mini cut. But then most of the time, you need to be living in a maintenance to surplus and getting strong. And that is going to build and give you the body that you're kind of chasing. Calorie cutting for someone like you or like her,

there's absolutely something to be said about some people's bodies are so resilient to that that they only get a little bit of a benefit then the body plateaus right away says, uh-uh, we don't like this. We're stopping right there. And so if you have already figured that out about yourself, this is the direction, the direction you were already going is the direction I'd have you. You can still do these little one to two week cuts, but then go back up. That's kind of how I would do it with you.

And then programming right now, you're on anabolic, right? I'm doing anabolic and I bought symmetry. I was gonna do that one next unless you have another suggestion. I love symmetry now. I love symmetry and I like power lift for you too. Yeah, power lift are strong. Those are great programs for you. Let us send you

power lift. I think that would be a great one. Oh yeah. I mean, and your lifts are great. You've got great strength. Yeah. Lean into that. Lean in, get strong. Just try and get strong. And really you're gonna grow your metabolism into creating the deficit for you. That's what ends up happening. That's exactly what happened with Katrina. So let me give you one more piece of advice too, on the, the get strong thing, right? And this is something I had to do with her. So as you're going through our programs, you know, that like it's phased out and in certain phases, like, you know, the squats say five reps or they say 10 reps

or they say 15 reps, right? That it'll give you that when I'm pushing strength with her, one of the things I remind her is that I care less about you getting to the reps as much as I want you to add weight to the bar. So like, let's say you kind of have an idea of like, Oh, I can back squat this much. And so you have at least five reps. So I put that weight on instead. I would go like, do you think you could add 10 more pounds? And you go, I don't know if I can get five. That's okay. If we stop at three or four, I'm okay with that.

So I would rather you not hit the reps because you tried to put more weight on the bar than be so concerned with, oh, I want to make sure I at least get five that you always kind of put the lighter amount of weight on. And so it's totally okay that it's, we're supposed to be doing sets of five, but you could only get sets of three. That's awesome. Same thing goes for when it says 10. When it says 10, if you fell short and only get seven, I don't care. I'd rather see that because I'm pushing you to lift more and build muscle and get strong more so than following the rep count on the page. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah, totally. Okay. Thank you so much. That should really help. So we're going to send

power lift your way too. No, awesome. I appreciate that, thank you. All right, Beth. All right, Beth. Thank you. Thanks. Ex-athletes can be very challenging sometimes. She seems very open.

I think she's gonna go in the right direction. But ex-athletes, it's such a big switch. And when you train for that long, that hard, especially when you add lots of calorie deficits, getting the body to relearn or change afterwards can be difficult. And then especially psychologically, the person, although it didn't sound like-

It's hardwired in there. It is, and it didn't sound like this was her issue, but oftentimes, their perception of what intensity, you know, appropriate intensity- It's completely off. So skewed, so skewed. For the average person that's trying to understand, this is an example of, like she said it,

she's played all sports, she's been playing her whole life. This is, your body will get adapted to low calorie and high intensity, especially when you've been doing it for years or decades. Like it sounds like she's been doing it. That's been your environment. So then all of a sudden you decide, oh, I'm gonna go on this weight loss journey

and stuff like that, and then what do you do? You cut calories, like your body's like, I know what to do. Yeah, I've seen this before. And it's preparing for even more intensity than you probably even plan to. So there are absolutely people. You gotta run a totally different system.

Yes, and that's just it. Like that was why Katrina's strategy, and her numbers, like her height, her weight, her calories where she was at, all very similar to what Katrina was. And we eventually got to a place where we could eat 3,000 calories. The leanest she's ever been. Yeah, yeah, it takes a little bit of time.

You gotta be patient. I remember having to interrupt the bulk. And you had conversations, I'm sure, with her. Yes, consistently reminding her that we're doing good, we're heading the right track. Hey, if you want me to show you to lean out a couple pounds real quick, go ahead. Let's drop calories for two weeks and then I'll show you. We'll drop a few pounds and you can see what it looks like when you get sucked out and

you lean down. It's like, okay then let's go back because we can't stay there long because your body will get adapted to it real quick and you'll get frustrated. Look, if you love Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump de Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump. Thank you I'm at Mind Pump. DeStefano and Adam is at Mind Pump. Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically

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