Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 267: Joe Donnelly Returns

Episode Date: April 4, 2016

Joe Donnelly's October 2015 visit to the Mind Pump Studio resulted in over 5 hours of raw (and sometimes unusable) recordings that were released in four episodes. Joe swung by the studio again last Thursday and recorded this "tamer" episode that is being aired in its entirety. In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin talk to Joe about supplements, social media gurus and celebrities and training among other things. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Learn more about Mind Pump at www.mindpumpmedia.com

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You and Joe need to behave. We got to be out of here within an hour or two. We can't be here all fucking day. I've already been censored, bro. We have four hours of interview. It was actually eight hours, man.

I was half an hour. I was just like, yeah. I was just like, yeah. I was like, yeah. was like mark that he's like how he's like well you did like three hours for the one to like no we don't like two more episodes I'm like there there was like four lawsuits of material that had to be cut if we didn't tell you already you are the only person we've ever had to edit anything ever for we've like that's we're my pop rock we're rough in bro. We fucking say everything you're the I'm not sure if I should feel complemented or Complemented in embarrassed at the same time. Yes, well, we have about four hours of a cut Episodes that we're gonna save just in case something ever happens. We can just release it out

Something happens to one of us. Oh, okay, yeah. Black meal. It's in a time capsule somewhere. So welcome back, Mr. Joe Donnelly. Thanks for having me guys. Always happy to be here. Excellent.

So you look bigger. What's going on here? Yeah, right? I mean, I think that's part of the optical illusion of you're just not used to seeing my manliness up close. Yeah, it's a little excited. Cause we're last time. It's too virtual.

Because last time we were a lunch, you're like, man, you're a big guy, then by the halfway word, you know, recording, you're like, but you're really not that big a guy. You don't, you don't look like you're on, on steroids, you just look like a normal big guy. And you're like, yeah, you're really not that big. You're like a normal guy.

I'm like, fuck, man, I went from like, I look like a big natural guy to now. And he's just telling me like a normal guy. Yeah, I think I gotta get the flip flopper. Yeah, that's when the erection starts to subside. Absolutely. That's when I start to realize. When you do like three shots to Kilo and you're talking to a girl to a boy,

like man, you're like, she looks hot, you know, and then Kilo starts to wear off later. Like, what is that little thing on her lip? Oh no. It's the reality starts to set in. That's excellent. Yeah. So what's going on, brother? Oh, man, just the same old cranking away in business.

And I tried to get to involved in the social media stuff, but it's been highly enterprising. There's a lot of shit going on. There's a lot of stuff going on. It is, man, but it's just, it's like being a comedian, people just throwing you material. In our group text, you sent me that link the other day,

and I was on a conference call, and I'm like, I don't have time to look at this, and I saw Adam's response, I'm like, all right, hold on. I'm like, I go, let's look at this real quick, and it's just, there's some people out there that are just, they can't help themselves. Yeah, there's, you know, I know we have big mouths, and we're kind of pissing a lot of people off, but.

Well, I mean, here's the deal, let's, I hate to interject real quick. But if you're pissed off by the truth, then that's a you problem. All right. Everybody appreciates someone being direct and being truthful until it's about them, then you're an asshole. So the sensitive people in the world,

where are they really going? If they get hypersensitive about someone speaking of truth or speaking well articulated and formulated opinions on something. It's like you're not just a gas bag on a radio saying stuff. I mean, there's a lot of truth to what you're saying. It's just we tend to put things out there in a very abrasive manner. And if that's not to your liking, well, maybe being successful and happy isn't either.

So go fuck yourself. Well, you know, we were just talking off air on a subject that it's almost become like a truth in fitness, but we know there's a we know for the most part that it's almost become like a truth in fitness, but we know for the most part that it's not true, and this is the whole protein intake dispute that's been going on for a while now. But for a long time, people have assumed that you need to eat this shit tons of protein in order to build muscle, and you were just telling us about how you met someone the other day.

That had been informed to eat something like 400 grams of protein a day. Absolutely. There's a guy in my gym and he, I mean, my buddy, my training partner, Marcus here also, and he would tell me, Mark and I for months, and he'd be getting blood tests flying the San Diego scene specialist. I mean, he was working with a lot of top trainers in our area, had his, you know, this diet, everything,

and I never really looked at his diet, but I was kind of just getting snippets of what he was telling me, and then finally, I'm like, just email me so I can see it on a piece of paper. And the guy was taking in like 384 grams of protein. It was a typical bro diet. It was like, you know, six ounces of salmon at meal three with like 12 almonds, like 12 fucking almonds.

Why is it 12? It's very specific. Not 13, like eight was too little, but 15 was too much. It's just a magic number. Yeah, you know, then it was like one table spoon of some type of coconut oil and then like, you know, rub it between your wrist and throw salt over your shoulder.

It was like black magic fucking stupid potion stuff. And I'm just like, this is, I'm like, dude, it's work before. Yeah, you know, like listen, he refuted. He's like, Jay color did it in 94, and he's placed second at the great North American and bought, whatever, okay. Right. I'm like, dude, how about this? How about just eat 200 great North American and bought you whatever, okay. Right. I'm like, dude, how about this?

How about just eat 200 grams of protein and like 75 grams of fat and like 200 grams of carbs and just, let's go from there. And the two weeks later he's like, man, my digestive issues are gone out of inflammation. Like, well, you're also not eating 36 eggs a day. Like, I haven't eaten 36 eggs in a month. That's what I'm saying forever.

How did, so how did he take that? Initially, when he told him, cut your protein in half. Well, I have an eating 36 eggs in a month. That's impressive. How did he take that? Initially, when he told him, cut your approach in half. Well, I have people freak out. Yeah, at first, he was, when I had some mention to him, he's like, well, I don't know. And I go, well, are you tired of, you know, working out hard in the gym and all this stuff and still looking like a, you know, a fat type of shit?

And he was, I mean, that's pretty much what I said. I mean, he kind of looks like Dan Lebertard for me, SPN, and he just looks like a big guy. Like, it's got a big guy. Like a big guy. You know, the best his best feature was his beard, unfortunately. But he trains hard and he's a hell of a nice guy. And so I kind of just beat him down a little bit verbally and he gave in.

And now it's like and not only has all of our justive issues gone. He's just talking about me. He's also like 20 years for 22 pounds and he hasn't changed anything. He's not doing tons of cardio. He's protein. It's just cutting back his protein, getting his digestive tract in order, getting his calories right. He's got more energy, feeling more efficient. And I'm just like, you know, you can people can, you know, certain PhDs out there can cite, you know, one study

specifically saying you have to eat more protein if you work out. But the proof is in the pudding. Like I can't tell how many competitors I'm sure you guys have two have women have come back and been like Yeah, I cut my protein back and you know like the bloating in my stomach went away and I feel better I'm like yeah like no dude like you're you're taking you know 300 grams of protein and you're 120 like I'm too 60 and I take in 230. I know how hard it is to get that because I'm in that range right which getting 200 something grams of Pro is a lot of is fucking work. It really is. Yeah, it's it's work

So I just picture these these poor little bikini girls and fucking just Throwing the protein powder straight in their mouth and all tough Somebody needs to make a meme of like a girl sitting like a cartoon girl sitting at a table And it's only 11 57 on the clock And they're like Yeah, they're like 38 more grams There comes the sting and the boy like, you can do it. And he's got like a big bloated belly.

Well, it's become the macro nutrient. That's like, you can't do wrong with it. More is better. And why is that? Like he said, it's inserial. What's the number, you know that, so you know the business better than all of us in here in terms of sales and stuff.

What are the top selling supplements in the fitness industry? She's protein powder, right? Protein powder, yeah's just protein powder. Yeah, absolutely. By far, so it only makes sense that they're going to continue to say you need to have, you know, so much protein. And the only way you can reach that amount is by taking matters. You can't do that with, I mean, if you did, you'd be digesting all day and you'd

feel like shit. Right. So that's why when people are like, well, so and so body builder eats six to eight meals, so much more for him. And I go, listen, listen, little men's,, the keeny guy, or the keeny, but I can't even, I'm still using some making up words, but I'm just just, now when I try to be serious, yeah, men, bikini, figure's-eak, whatever. Fikures.

So, so like, listen, little person who takes in 250 calories per meal. You're different, or taking over over seven or eight meals versus so-and-so body builder who has 1200 calories per meal, or 1500 calories per meal, and he's taking six or seven meals. Like, those are big meals. He needs a lot of meals to get that food in. I'm like, you're just doing yourself a disservice. Like, when you've made that post of their day about, you know, meal frequency and eating the same foods,

like, it was dead on. And people like flipped out about that. And I'm like, okay, but that's because you don't know any better. Like, you've been taught a certain way to do things and your mind is so closed off. And I love that people come back and they're like, well, Dexter Jackson or Jay Cutler does this. I go, well, guess what?

When you're in the pump of room, backstage at the Olympia. And Jay Cutler's giving you a high five to go on. I'm like, then tell me, hey man, you were wrong. And I'm like, you know what? It didn't work for you, you're in the pump of room backstage of the Olympia. And Jay Cutler's giving you a high five to go on. I'm like, then tell me, hey man, you were wrong. And I'm like, you know what? It did work for you, you're wrong. But I'm like, right now it's an networking fee. Yeah, and they don't realize, they have no concept that they have,

they have almost nothing in common with those guys. Nothing. Zero, these guys are anomalies, not even the right word. Just, even if you took away the drugs that these guys took, they are so far away from the average person in terms of their genetics, and it's not just their genes to build muscle. These guys have incredible, and people don't realize this, digestive genes. Absolutely.

They have the ability to eat and assimilate food, and for it to not destroy them. That's what makes them so, that's what makes them the one percent of the one percent. You know, there's very few men that walk around the earth that look like that, regardless of their anabolic, their hands are not. Look at, at I mean look at like any like pro athlete like they say JJ wild eats 9,000 calories a day and people I've seen this coming a million times well if I train for five or six hours I can no no you couldn't no you still couldn't you can go out and do a triathlon every day and you still couldn't go through 9,000 calories the fact that their their body can process that food fast and and and convergence energy and they can use. Dude, if you try to eat nine thousand, go, next time go fucking have a huge

Thanksgiving dinner and see if you feel like going to the gym after. You've been a food column, you probably ate 2,000 calories. Yeah, if an average person eats that much, they would become 400, 500 pounds. Absolutely. A beast individual. But even then, even with people and it's another thing, I just realized this actually a few weeks ago, I was watching, I don't remember the show, it was a documentary where they have that like super obese on it. Yeah. I don't remember the show, it was a documentary where they have the super obese on it.

Yeah. I don't remember the name of it, anyhow, they were showing the amount of calories as people were eating to achieve their 5,600 pound body weight. And they were eating, you know, 7, 8, 9,000 calories a day. They also have the ability to digest, because if I or Adam were just

and tried to get that heavy with that much food, we couldn't either. There's a genetic component all of it. And I'll be honest, so like everybody knows that I, you know, regularly consume 78,000 calories a day, but I don't do it in solid food because I couldn't. Like, I mean, I, I, I mean, I, I ate, you know, one, two boxes of pop tarts the other day.

So I like, I was losing weight, so I had a good, you know, almost like 4,000 calories just in pop tarts. What time those like strawberry or cherry or what? Okay, so there, there is a little bit of chemistry about or what? Okay, so there is a little bit of chemistry about like, you know, you have to a little bit of science behind it. So you have to alternate between strawberry, and then there's the bacon maple

which you put in and then, and then you switch to the cinnamon brown sugar. You're like a fuckin' salad. Yeah, because if you go too much, then you will shut off your receptors to the polysupinated glucose. And then that makes sense. Shuts off the, yeah. Shuts off it.

Shuts off the... So I worked the maple bacon. I worked the maple bacon and I get a little bit of that protein, the extra saturated fat. I do some hammer curls to work the lower bicep. I get a good pump. No, he said lower bicep. And I take four scoops of... Doug, you write this down?

I've discredited PhD protein. I do some more lower bicep curls. I take four scoops of Dougie right in the staff of discredited PhD protein I do some more lower bicep curls and I shape my head and get some tacky tattoo Emphos in a photoshop picture in front of a Lamborghini Not specific enough not at all. Let's talk training dude. How's your training going Joe? You've been deadlifting now. You've been sending me text message because you weren't deadlifting before because of injury Yeah, well, I haven't deadlift for so long because, you know, my left shoulder when they reconstructed the AC joint has essentially, like, it's a piece of chicken wire with a little band over the,

that goes and it cuts through that, that clavicle and types of it. So I haven't been doing it. So heavy downward force, you know, like I haven't been shrugging heavy, but I was like, you know, what? My, my shoulder muscle, it's been about seven years. So I'm like, so I started deadlifting and I really, really enjoying the feeling I'm like, fuck it. If I get hurt again, but I was like, you know what, my shoulder muscles, it's been about seven years, so I'm like, so I started deadlifting, and I really, really enjoying the feeling, I'm like, fuck it, if I could hurt again,

I have another surgery, what's the big deal? I get a free prescription of vicar, or a percussette with it. I kind of waste itself out, yeah. Well, I don't, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, hey man, I don't, I don't, I don't be like, I don't, I don't, I'm like, I heard, I'm sorry about your surgery.

You can smell it in the air, it's blood check, but you have any percussette, or I don't know how it all left. Oh my God. I think you could crawl out of bed and send me a fat ex to me something, yeah. So yeah, I mean, I've been heavy, you know, stiff like a deadlift thing,

but I haven't done regular, you know, heavy deadlifts because I knew having you idiots as friends. I see your videos and like, well, fuck, I'm gonna have to go to 500 and I'm gonna go to my office. I was just gonna say that. I was like, this motherfucker, he wasn't even deadlifting before. And now it's the only thing we have on our Instagram

That we left heavier than him. He doesn't have a video. Yeah, fucking yeah. Oh, no, there's going to be To be where you're pulling in the sixes. Yeah, well, I mean my goal is I want to be able to squat like told you I want to be the squat 600 and then I want to be the deadlift it back to back super set with no rest so 600 600 Yeah, but not there yet. You have a 700 pound deadlift and you know problem. I think, I don't, my form needs a lot of help. I'm very strong to my lower back, my posterior chain, but I need to be coached, you know? Like I told you, like I was with Mark one day, like, you know, I had like 5.45 on there

and I went and did a two-mo style and then I just dropped it and I switched my grip to regular and just did it. So I'm just kind of figuring out as I go, but there's a difference between, okay, you're strong from other lifts, but using proper technique. And so that's what I'm finding with, you know, like, you know, certain people squat a certain way. You know, the length of your femur makes a difference. So for

me, it's really, you know, finding your sweets, yeah, finding my sweet spot and what's comfortable for me. You know, we talked about this before in a podcast that, you know, deadlifting and squatting, typically you're really strong in one of the other. No, you rarely find a guy who just dominates both squatty and deadlifting. It's just, and because we're all, we're all made up different. And it is, a lot of that is just feeling, I felt like I was fucking deadlifting three times a week

for God knows how long trying to find that. And it took me probably a solid year before I finally felt like, okay, I'm in the groove. This is, and you can just get right underneath the bar. Because there is something to be said for, you know, when I'll watch a shorter guy deadlift, I'm like, okay, I'm in the groove. This is, and you can just get right underneath the bar. It's because there is something to be said for, when I'll watch a shorter guy deadlift, I'm like, okay, I'm looking at this form. For someone I see a taller guy do something,

I'm like, okay, I'm like, his hands aren't as wide, his stance a little different. So, you want to mirror someone who think has a similar body type to you. Whereas if you mirror someone who's like five, nine, and he's a great deadlifter, his body type might not, you know, a similar to yours.

And so you may be picking up tips that are incorrect. Yeah, I've seen tall skinny guys, and he's a great deadlifter, his body type might not assimilate to yours. And so you may be picking up tips that are incorrect. Yeah, I've seen tall skinny guys who just with the squat weren't that good, but could pull a shit turn off the floor. And these are guys that almost look linky. And I've seen them pull six and a pound off the floor. Well, from a physics standpoint, that makes sense.

Leverage-wise, saying, because you're hinging like that, that would make sense to be that way. Be more difficult for you to squat because you got a longer distance, you got a travel or the hip hinge, but like that, that would make sense to be that way. Be more difficult for you to squat because you got a longer distance, you got a travel or the hip hinge. Well, I would think with your squat being so strong, do you find yourself trying to squat the weight up when you're deadlifting versus pulling it?

So at first, that's what I was trying to do. And then Mark and I were doing one day where I was doing heavy stiff leg and deadlifts and I'm really strong on heavy stiff leg and deadlift. So I was just like, maybe I'll do my deadlift a little more like a stiff leg and deadlifts, you know, better mind ease a little more, like a stiff leg of deadlift, but you know, better mind these little more. And I found it to be more comfortable with that

because I was trying to squat it up more and it was just, it just felt a little bit awkward. Well, see, if you have a good, if you have a good stiff leg and a good regular squat, you should be able, you, at say you're right, it's all about form of technique. You're gonna be able to pull. I predict four to seven hundred pounds is in your future.

If you just practice the form, we'll see. I mean, because if you're pulling the mid-sixes now and you're squatting 600 pounds of shit. We'll see. Yeah, because I can barely, I can barely squat 400, but I can pull. That's why I'm excited that we found you can do just the death of competition because I want to be able to see you do that. I would, that would be awesome.

I didn't know that they did that. That guy told me that you can be a specialist. You can just compete in one of them. Do they have like a one arm dumbbell crew competition? We talked about it. He's looking for that. One arm dumbbell press. Yeah, a one arm dumbbell curl dumbbell competition. I want to. He's been looking for that. One arm dumbbell press.

Yeah, one arm dumbbell curl, duck competition. I wanna put, I wanna put, I wanna put, I wanna put a Dug in here. We take Dug and fucking pull it, too. Yeah, I know Dug's strong. Dug's pulled 400 pounds. What do you weigh, Dug? 155.

155, you know. Yeah, he did get feet pulls 400, 155. Do they have age categories? Over 80? Yeah. This should be just him and Mike O'Haren. We have a, they both, been all the massive drug tests. Yeah.

Excellent. So, what's up with your, how's your business going? How's that? Anything in the future looking? Yeah, things are going very well. You know, we're just kind of releasing the second version of a couple of our supplements. Okay. The pre workouts, you know, been unbelievable, but, you know, taking it to a new level,

you know, take the citrilline, you know, ingredients up a little bit and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, just the business has taken off so fast that it's a lot of us put money back into the company and then expand. Excellent. Let's talk about Citroëlean for a second, because that's an ingredient you find in a lot of pre-workouts, but they put them in a proprietary blend. Well, I think you're finding it, you don't find it in a lot because most people are still Basin off poor science they're using our are are genuine. Yeah, you are going to our journey. I don't know. I just Yeah, so yeah, so is it our journey? Okay, so yeah, right but but you're seeing more companies move towards it But there's still way below the efficacious dose, you know, so I mean, it's like I mean

You ever anybody ever looked at the back of a C4 container I mean, yeah, but you guys aren't sponsored by anybody. I can't imagine why Sal makes a post saying if he workouts don't work. Yeah, that was great Yeah, it was really awesome and then Joe that Joe text me afterwards fuck you Dude like fuck man. I'm like we're trying to do business with you guys. Like, that was really awesome. Pretty much, everybody dancing with us. I was annoyed, I'm like, dude, and he's like, man, he's like other than like, caffeine and like,

creatine, you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm like, beta alley or bit, butane doesn't do anything. I'm like, sit really, I'm like, well, maybe, I got mad at him. I was like, well, maybe, maybe if you use those ingredients, you'd have more gains. Like, when you can't argue science with someone,

just argue that you're bigger than that. But they came back with, but I still can't help deadlift you down. And I just didn't text back for like two days. I had nothing to say. He sat on us all day. I had nothing to say. That is his car.

That's my only car. That is. No, when it comes to citrally, and we should, well, I want to cover this because people are listening right now thinking, well, what do you guys talk about? Citrline increases Circulating arginine in the blood better than arginine does. Yeah, convert better in the gut

And that's what it is is because you and you want the theory is to have increased arginine in the blood You get more nitric oxide you get a better pump or you get a better blood flow So these supplement companies will put a ton of arginine in their product But that gets degraded and destroyed right when you consume it Citroline is what does now?, I got a question for you. Is Citroen more expensive than Arginine? Is that why that's okay? See, that makes sense then.

Yes, it is more expensive for us to go just from six grams per serving to eight, you know, did change the price. So we had to move things because you don't want to take your price point up because it will affect consumers, but it is more expensive. Now, here's a question. When they, when they, on the studies that are done on CitroenLane for, you know, for Arginine levels in the blood, what's the dose that they typically use? I thought it was three, but I'm not, I don't know if I'm

mistaken. The efficacious dose I've seen in studies that anywhere from three to four and a half, okay, but it is also size dependent. So when, what do you mean by that? Like how big the person is? How big the person is, gotcha. And so, yeah, I mean, I actually had, I think I've seen,

yeah, studies from three up to four and a half, but those studies were usually based on, when they did show the weight of the person, individuals from 180 to 210 pounds. So when we built our pre-worker, we dosed off of me at 250 pounds and that's, you know, and I've done it. I've done it. We've done it both ways. I've done it with a serving of three grams, and I've done it with a serving of six. And there is a significant difference in muscle pump muscle. Well, I will say this. I know we normally come across as anti-seplament, but when you look at the ingredients of products,

you definitely have effective doses of each ingredient. I have yet to see a pre-workout with that much, you know, citrally, and just lots of things. Well, that was the thing is we wanted to, you know, I mean, how many times do you guys use pre-workouts? We're like, I have to take three or four scoops. It's like, we wanted to make it so we had efficacious doses of, you know, the four or five major ingredients,

all in one serving. Oh, yeah, you don't need two scoops of your shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you do, it'll be an end. I remember the first time I tried it, dude, I was like, holy fuck, I'm not gonna need your pre-workout for tomorrow.

Yeah. I'm set, dude, for the rest of the day. It'll be a long night. I mean, you can try to rub an out, maybe you're four, we get a pump and stuff. Nothing's ever happened. I have like this covered, I mean, supplement companies like Senda Supplements all the time, right?

Try and get this. I can't imagine why. Ever listen to your show. That's just a thing. I don't think this is the irony of what we do. And then they do. And then the joke on Mind Pump right now is that we get all these people that,

and the best part too They they stroke you off to the oh we love your show when they toggle stuff like that and then they talk and then I'm like If you really listen to our show you know, I couldn't even ref this if I wanted to rev this it doesn't matter What you've been I've already burned that bridge a long time ago Anti-supplements and anti-revenue Well, new business plan. We break all of that. Well, looking ahead, looking at some of the trends in the industry, do you see any trends

that you see? I mean, you and I talk about all the times, the trend is towards natural supplements. It's going to get there. I think that you still have a market segment of, I hate to say it, but there's still a lot of meat heads that are still going to want to use the artificial supplements and stuff. But again, if you wanna think of big picture revenue, you wanna think of everyday customers.

Sure, to be honest, that's why quest is such a big company. Because people don't look at quest is, the mom who buys quest bars and puts one in her kids' launch or keeps them in her purse or whatever, they don't look at quest bars as a protein bar. They look at it as something healthy, a healthy alternative. Whether you agree with that or not, that's that's the arbitrary. But that's where the sub industry is going to trend towards because let's think about it right now. Because I quest outsells every supplement that's out there.

It quest outsells every supplement company combined. And that's and that's because they don't sit. They're not selling to people who take supplements. Right. They're not selling people to accept them. People who buy supplements is a very, very small market. I mean, it's like you go to the Olympia expo. I mean, like they can't like fill the place. And that's like the mecca of like the big weekend of like fitness and bodybuilding, nothing against the industry, but it's so small. You can take the most popular person in the fitness and bodybuilding industry and go ask four of your neighbors, like other than Arnold, but they've never heard of that person. That's true.

It's just that's what it is. But it's now because of social media things are becoming a little more mainstream. Like you said, supplement companies are going to trend towards natural products. You know, I mean, whether you have science and support, it's an nonprofit who wants to put all that artificial stuff in their body for years. And we don't have any long term studies on it because supplements really just started coming about what in the last 10, 12 years. And it's not only that. I mean, I'm not, you know, no knock on anybody, but they also

didn't know to study for certain things. Of course not. You know, so how do you know you're testing for toxicity? They're not toxic. Right. They tested for, you know, adverse effects within the, you know, the test period of time, which the tests were done for three months, six months, or even long, you know, long studies a year or three years. But they're not looking for things like gut flora changes.

They're not looking at long-term autoimmune issues. And I'm not saying that those things happen. I'm just saying these are things that they didn't look at. We just don't know. We don't know. No one's known to look at it. And we'd always fools to think that there's not going to be something that's going to come up at some point.

I will say this, man, if you existed 15 or 20 years ago, you would. I did, I was just, I mean, I was there, you just didn't hurt me. It's not a bit. But my point is, if this was 20 years ago, we wouldn't even be debating, or we wouldn't even be discussing

how you need less protein that they say. So it's already evolved so rapidly in a very short period of time. Matter of fact, I can't remember this conversation happening five years ago. Two years ago. I mean, it was, I mean, let's look at the myths that everybody, I like to think mind-pump

that a little part of that, but I have a huge idea. No, it's true, well, let's be honest. There's, I don't wanna say a handful, but there's maybe a small group of individuals, you know, you guys, myself included, that, you know, however we got the information, we were able to spread it through social media. I credit Lay Norton a lot of it.

Lay Norton did a great job in exposing a lot of myths. And he didn't have a big spot. Especially in bodybuilding. He definitely came out there with the coach. That was like his big claim, or that's how I found him. What's the attacking coach like getting after coach? It was for my ball damage.

I barely heard of Laynor, but somebody turned me on to the metabolic damage. And I remember I put it on my Facebook fan page a couple years ago and it, it trended, I mean, there was like 8,000 or 7,000 shares You know like like a you know 130,000 likes and his and that was how he contacted me He's like someone's only shared my video. It had like 400 views and it went to like 75,000 and then you know Then you find a good source you start researching stuff starts to more their videos and then like mines, you know group together

But I mean, let's let's's be honest, three years ago, everybody was, I mean, it's fucking even six months ago. People were like, wait a minute, what do you mean, eating six to eight meals doesn't speed up my metabolism, you know? Like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, if I eat carbs after 8 p.m., they get stored as fat.

Like, people still believe that. It's just a small percentage. But I mean, two years ago, all of those to these myths, these idiotic myths, people accepted his fact. Well, I feel it's, I mean, the fucking dude who won that award with the fake trophies, keeps saying, fished in your skin. What does they feel? He's filled fished in your skin. Unbelievable. And he must own tilapia or something. Yeah, we're talking about it. How do you thin your skin? That's the most ridiculous thing

I've ever heard of my mother. I think this is good. It's a good trend. Of course, as things start to change, you start to push out some of the garbage. More garbage will come in, that will get pushed out. But I think it's good because for a long time, fitness or the fitness industry has not been the answer. And what I mean by that is, we have an obesity epidemic.

We have chronic health epidemics in this country We've got you know a lot of misinformation out there and fitness rather than being the solution has been a contributor to a lot of that So people don't you know they there's no word for them to turn you know they go to Western medicine They're sick. They're overweight Western medicine gives them this this this you know here's your prescription They do it. It doesn't work where they turn They couldn't go anywhere before and fitness wasn't it. And now I think fitness, and I might be premature in my projection, but I think in a very short period of time, just because of the way I see Chent, how quick trends move nowadays with social media with the internet, I think in less than 10 years we see a dramatic shift

in the industry. I think wellness and fitness are combining. I think they're combining, It's already starting to happen. Look, if you go on iTunes, look at some of the top health and fitness podcasts, they're like bulletproof executive and excuse me, bulletproof, what's the name, Dave Asprey. He talks about eating ketogenic

and following things that in the past were considered taboo. You look at some of the, like you said, with the information with small meals, like six months ago, nobody was talking about that. So I see it happening very, very rapidly. Oh, yeah, because six months to a year ago, a company called Sixpack Bags came out of nowhere and fucking blew up too. I mean, that's, that's still kind of a hot trend. I mean, that was, it's definitely still huge in the industry. You know, the last time we all got together, I mean, talk about things, how fast stuff changed. We got together and we were talking a little trash about a supplement company that, you know, built itself

in social media and all this. And Matt, I have seen some serious. You're talking about rips. No, pumps. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I stretch your blood hole. Have you seen some of the pictures of the scars? Have you seen the backlash that's happening right now? I've seen some backdoor action. I've heard stories about some backdoor action before. But the backlash, it correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm wrong, a year ago

wasn't like this. It's huge now. I'm getting tagged on shit all over the social media because of that. So I have two thoughts about that. One is that people make mistakes in their past and shouldn't be crucified forever. Now, so if so and so person, Photoshop's their photos, you know, some of the, you know, a lot of these photos I'm seeing are two years old, you know, or 75 weeks old, people keep

reposting. So if you made a mistake and you Photoshopped, you know, you're asked bigger or whatever, you're way smaller and you got called out, you deserved it. Do you need to get called out forever? No, however, if you're still fucking doing it. It's like a fucking phone. What have we got? I mean, if you're still doing it, like we can see like the lines on the door behind you are curved in because you're stuck in your waist.

I mean, like these people aren't even, it's so bad. Like you just have to like look for it now. It's like, oh my God, I can see the wall curving. Well, now you know what, now I have to be honest, I was completely naive to this. I just didn't realize there's fucking people that took the time. I find it a pain in the ass,

and I gotta take a time to take a picture of myself. I just got time for that shot. And like somebody up, wait, wait, somebody actually took a fucking HD camera, shot themselves, staged with great lighting. You think green screen, wait, wait, somebody actually took a a fucking HD camera shot themselves staged with great Light green screen Brand them to upload it to a computer so then they could Photoshop it and then they actually wrote caught holy Well, what the fuck did they do all day?

I'm right actually so that was life thought and then the people like no, there's an app you can do it And I'm like are you like how far behind the times in my I just figured out snapchat I had snatched up for six months But I couldn't figure out how to go from like, my contacts, paves to the video, and that's horrible. So I just started posting snapchats of like pizza and Chloe, my dog, but these people literally have an app, they put a picture of themselves up

and they can alter their body and I'm just like, fuck, like does not anybody actually work? Like what are you doing? But here's the thing, and the other side of that is all these people that are giving call out for Photoshop, they all look great in real life. Like they didn't need to do anything. Right, like why did you do that?

It's not, the cost benefit analysis of it has not been positive, because there's so much backlash, and what it's done is it's led to more scrutiny of everything else. So now it's, you know, that's a great point now, because now it's kind of awakened people to screw down a lot of things. Well, I would like to know if this came from the top, like I, you have to think that it

gives there's quite a few of them underneath. Like it, this was like a direct message from leadership. Like this is what we're going to do. Well, in order was originally because I have first person intercorsial relationships with some of these Spuds female public press intercorsoles. And of course it is today on Mindbump. Yeah. So originally some of their internet ads, they were photoshopping and I think the girls, the girls and the guys,

the bitches, they took the, I separate girls from bitches because I'm not referring to girls as bitches, just the dudes and the leggings or bitches that, they took the, I separate girls from bitches because, you know, I don't matter if we're in a girl's bitches, just the dudes and the leggings or bitches the Photoshop, their package. Got you. Okay, so I'm gonna clarify, so all the female listeners like, did you know called the girls,

no, Joe called the dude with the pink and white leggings, Photoshopping his package of bitch. That can't be very clear. So I think some of the girls and the other hosts, they were, they started, they saw their pictures and ads of what a Photoshop. So they started, you know, making some changes and it just grew out of there, you know. Really?

And it morphed into their own. Oh, you mean like, so the company itself, the ones that they promote and put out there, they're 30% off sale, what are that? Those were all modified up there. I think so. What you're saying, and we don't want to separate something. If you take a picture of the photographer, they put it on a magazine, in a magazine or Fernad, you have no control over what they do. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not.

I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not.

I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not.

I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think they're not. I think that people saw that. I think with the advent of all these different types of apps, people started taking their own pictures and adjusting them. And then you had certain people being like, well, you know, here's my six week booty progress and the girl went from no ass to now, you have one ass cheek pointing at 10 o'clock on the clock. I'm like, do how did her ass do that? I gotta understand, like there's one cheek here

and there's one cheek pointing this way. It looked like arrows crossing, it's just weird. Well, here's one thing that people love. And this is my advice to these people who are getting called out like this. People love to see other people fall from grace, but they also love to see people at the who fell from grace, apologize, and come back up.

We look at Charlie Sheen, man. That dude went to shit, came back, and then got put in an ice cream. Oh, great times. It's like I got a came back, and then got put in the ice cream. Oh, three times. I got a bunch of times. But let's use the sports analogy. So Andy Petter from the Yankees got busted for using HGH. Gave a heartfelt apology, and America forgave him the next day.

That's right. Everyone was like, and he's, and he got, you know, his jersey retired. Alex Rodriguez, who's done way more in his career than Andy Petellever did. Mine to this day and you know he kind of won the crowd over a little people fans or but some people still hate him in sports. Guys like Roger Clemens or Barry Bond who've never come out.

People still hate them for the most part you know other than local fans. I mean it's just you know and it's like if you make a mistake zone up to it you know I mean you know they were talking about that that certain PhD. It's like, hey man, you post them. Don't double down. Don't double down on them. Right. Well, that's what I'm talking about. And that's one of the things I was referring to,

like you're talking about, you know, a gentleman who's got lots of credential and accolades. And, you know, he taught, he, I mean, it's like one of the biggest myths in fitness, like one of the first weeks of personal training certification is you can't, you know, don't work. You can't work the lower bicep, or you can't whatever. He comes out with his post, I refute it,

but then he came back and doubled down, and he split hairs to the point where it was just so confusing to his listeners, talking about sarco mirrors and their studies at show, and therefore it can actually happen just to justify what he said. When in reality, you get no noticeable effect, whatsoever, it's being possible.

It's like, that's what I'm talking about, because now I'm pretty sure someone else is getting, no, he might be getting some heat from that. Well, it's kind of obvious. He, I feel like when I, well, I don't know him personally. So I can't speak what the man is like. But I feel like he's, I'll be energetic because I do, he's, I'll be energetic.

He's a hell of a nice guy. And, and from what I know, and always been very gracious. And let's first say that in no way are we saying the guys full of shit because I find him to be the majority of his information to be excellent. And people think that I was like, when I reposted your post, they're like, oh, but you used to know him or you on the cover who have this hit book.

I'm like, I never said that the guy doesn't know anything. I just said this topic, that's it. It's like if I gave someone a stock tip or a business tip or anything and I was wrong, just mean I don't know anything. No, I fucked up once. I mean, a mistake or my opinion was wrong. You know, I mean, my opinions are wrong all the time. You know, I mean, three years ago,

I thought you could have worked your lower biceps because I had so and so douchebags on YouTube telling me. Then I actually researched him, like, why does my fucking arm hurt so much? I'm trying to work an area, it can't be worked. It's called a ligament, you know? I'm just like, fuck. Well, no, that's the next, that's the next point.

And that's basically, I don't like the, you know, I'm gonna throw, you know, I'm so, so formally educated and these people aren't type of deal and that kind of stuff just comes across as pompous. And when it's happening, I think when you make that argument, is people feel that, because the average listener, here's a deal, the average listener or the average viewer,

or whatever, doesn't have those credentials. So when you're talking about someone else that doesn't have those, you're also talking shit about the person that's listening to you. Well, that's the way it comes to that. That's the way it comes to that. That's the way it comes to that., and was like, you don't have the credentials that I have in this and that. Like, I'll put marks on it. Like with yours,

I'll put Mark and your knowledge of science up against anybody I know in this world. Because you guys are high IQs and high retention of information. And you put in the time to study it and Mark destroyed him in a direct message. And you saw his professionalism unravel with like the name calling and I remember looking at me like God, he sounds like me attacking someone. But differences, I'm not a PhD like I'm not you know, like I'm I'll convey information that I see and stuff, but I'm not someone who conduct studies and this and that like do like Europe PhD and you're like name calling like a 12 year old to somebody who who's just because they're proving you wrong. Yeah, like, do like Europe, PhD, and your, like, name calling like a 12 year old to somebody who's just because they're proving you wrong.

Yeah. Like, that's ridiculous to me. Yeah, it's, it's crazy. It comes off like, it's a whole, a whole image that he's created and built and he's got to kind of live up. That's what, the part of me that feels back, because there's always a part of me when, you know,

we say something, we call something out, and then sometimes we see the backlash that it creates, and it's like, you know, our tensions aren't to go around and bully people. We've never been like that. We'd be great to show to be like that. Like, you know, even what's happened to the shreds companies and stuff like that, you know, we never at once got together and said, oh, let's intentionally try and harm this business throughout that.

They were just a perfect example of what we were talking about. This is exactly what's wrong. We kind of did have a group text message, Rosy, hey, let's come down and talk shit about that. But that did come from me. So yeah, I'm just saying. Let's be an animal's like, well, if you're in there, you want to have lunch, you got the radio, sure.

I'm like, okay, yeah. So I got a question for you, Joe. You've been the last time we saw you, which was a while ago, you weren't using bands too much in your training. Right. Now you're using bands quite a bit. It looks like maybe once or twice a week, you post the video. Yeah.

At one point, I was working them in, you know, almost every workout. And so I was doing in phases. Like, you, when I was talking to you more about training, so I was working in higher volume, lower volume, and I went a lower volume phase, increased frequency. You know, just like we talked about not sticking to one training style and understand why you're doing things You know at a point where I was you know sometimes it's on leg dates. It's you know Lower volume but heavier weights, you know lower reps and next time it's higher volume and more supersets And you know I found it started to find greater

You know, you use that progressive tension overload using the bands The muscle contraction and the stress on the muscle is so different It is right in free weights. I mean think about it like right? We didn't realize into one day mark and I were squatting and it's like Taking 500 pounds out of the hole is is nothing But when you hit the midpoint and those blue bands start to stretch I got like think about it. You're everybody who ever has ever squatted when you get halfway up in the squat There's no way you're falling right? No, you're doing past the hard part

Do I have a video with the two blue bands on and I was Maybe a third from the top and the band started and I crushed me and pulled me to the ground I mean it was over 800 pounds of tension, but like that's how you get think about it So when you're squatting or you're bench pressing you're really only doing half rep at like full force. Like as you start to cross up towards the top, the top of the rep, the tension becomes rapidly less. That's definitely a bell curve. Yeah. So it's, yeah, but when you introduce the bands, it changes everything.

It's amazing because five years ago, if you approached anybody who was muscular and you said, hey, add some, you know, rubber bands to your training, what a laugh they do. I mean, people in the gym, all, I mean, when I talk about resistance bands, people be like, what they think it's the little tiny ones, but then now everybody in my gym uses them all the time. We'll hear everybody. Well, yeah, they see the results together.

They see the gorilla squatting 800 pounds. He must be fucking working. I'll take some of those. I mean, what it even does to your chest? So you can grab 20 pound dumbbells, wrap, wrap, wrap, wrap. You can wear a fucking dude to in there squatting the next fucking week,

every fucking dude in there in one. Oh, I've never seen that video. I've never seen it. I explain how the tutu how it loops under and in that. Yeah, it put a nice press in my posterior chain. That motherfucker's doing it, I'm gonna try this. It allowed me to deadlift more. It brought my hips under me, so yeah.

The tutu actually was very good. Now I think it was power lifters that were the ones that really started using bands first. And then it went, and it just went from there. And the first time I ever used a band, I was just blown away. I mean, for me, when I squat like most people, like you said, I'm the weakest at the bottom, right? The whole. So adding that band made it easier, excuse me, you made it harder at the top where I was strongest and lightest at the bottom. And it just matched my strength curve. The strength increase is

unbelievable. And then just the added tension, the muscle, the enforced muscle growth, because you're increasing the tension towards your strongest point, what you want. It's like, you can do an easy curl, and wrap the band to it under a bench. And it's like, when we get to the top, man, when that tension starts to kick in, what it does to the flexion of your biceps,

same thing with a dumbbell press. Wrap the band and grab two 20 pound dumbbells. it's unbelievable the kind of pump and contraction you get in your chest, you know, from adding up. Here's the other thing I noticed with bands, it doesn't seem to cause as much damage like weights to you. And this is one of the reasons why I love, because I use bands probably at least three, maybe three times a month, at least in a workout, which is pretty frequent for something to be thrown into a regular routine. And I noticed that I can overload my body,

but it's not like I overloaded it with weights where it tore me up and I recover, like I did anyway. But anyway, I can even attention on your joints and it's increasing it. Yeah, into your extension or whatever the exercise is. That's a really good point. I don't understand too, it's allowed me to fatigue and stress my muscles more,

but I don't feel the pain in my shoulders, doing chest and stuff, because you're not holding those heavy weights, you're not holding 130, 140 pound dumbbells, you're holding 40 pound dumbbells, but with a band, but the combination of at the top of the rep maybe 120, 130 pounds. So yeah, it's just the way to fix your body.

And you're not putting so much stress on the joints. That's the thing about most people that as you get older, long you lift, you're gonna get injured at some point. And it's doing things with improper form or just doing things too much of one thing, like the bench press. It's just not good for you.

You're marrying two great things. You're marrying cables and free weights together. That's kind of what you're getting the best of both worlds and marrying. Well, see, bands are unique because I'll give you an example like another form of progressive resistance or chains. If I put a chain on a barbell, it's lighter at the bottom, heavier at the top,

just like a band. However, when I use chains or when I've had clients who's chains, it tears them up more than bands. You get more damage from chains and you use from bands. Bands have this amazing ability to, you can use them frequently. This is why in our Maps Antibolic Program, Maps Red, we advocate for the use of bands and for trigger sessions.

One of the reasons is because it doesn't damage you, like weights do or like other types of progressive resistance. I have those different different chains. I think that's more because, I think that's something has something, I could be totally wrong. But with bands, you have a certain pull or a certain downforce in a specific direction. There is still sway from the back.

But with the chain, especially when you get to the top, it's so much extra weight, but that chain can sway. You still got a balance. You still got a balance and puts a lot of stress on the joint because we've done it with, you know, like incline bench press with the bands versus the chains. And it can be equivalent of the same weight, but at the top of the rep, I feel dramatically different, the stress on my shoulders,

even into my elbows from using chains versus bands. The only other thing that's similar really, like if you guys sort of the ARX machine, no, it's basically, is that like that one? It's like a mechanized version of a cable machine. So they go through software. So they do exactly,

they try and mimic your natural strength curve. So it changes the resistance as you go through the resistance. But I mean, the thing is a monstrous and you're not gonna see it in like barely any gyms. So. No, I think bands are perfect. I don't see any bands are perfect. Same concept, but yeah.

I don't see anything replacing bands. I like Chains 2, but bands are more versatile and you can use them more frequently. And the thing about bands that I like, I don't know if you've done this. Have you experimented with attaching it at different angles? Yes, absolutely. We do it back all the time.

Yeah. I will do, we were done. We were super setting dead lifts and I would take the band and wrap around like the squat I pulled, do it high and do high to low pulls, low to high pulls. I mean, yes, just changing at different angles the way it affects because you can, a lot of times when you pull like a cable

or you pull a bar, you can only pull certain way your elbows have, like when you do a bend over a row, like, you know, do those Pendlet rows, you know, you pull too high, you're gonna feel a pinch a little bit in your step, you know, you pull too low, there's a sweet spot where you gotta pull, but with the bands, you can move your elbows a little bit,

drop your traps a little bit, and it almost like effect like a different part of your back. Well, the band is going to mold to your body's natural to the natural path it wants to take. I appreciate you guys all filling in. Yeah, man. How I'm not effectively explaining stuff today with good verbs and adjectives. Good. Appreciate that.

No, what happened here? See what happens when I don't have alcohol and red bull. Poor bull. We got some. Doug, you're good. Yeah. The one thing that I've used the bands for in a deadlift, for example, was on lockout. I'll attach the band so it's kind of coming out away from me at an angle.

So when I pull up, I get resistance, but then I got to pull back harder. Right, you're forced back. At the very top. That's actually smart. So that's one of the ways I like to use it. And I love bands. I love, I got to use them about three days. Because I think about how else would you mimic that?

Three days, you couldn't. It's impossible. We have to change gravity. There'd be no way to do it. So just one of my favorite tools. That'll be that next. Changing gravity. that'll be what's his name's next video I got the lower bicep change gravity my new supplement and if I do curls is I can actually alter gravity to hit the posterior chain and I have xyz science to prove it yeah yeah I would say I think I

think you're gonna see more bands and gyms as we move along it's starting to become more popular when you guys like you using them then you start to see the bands and gyms as we move along and starting to become more popular When you guys like you using them then you start to see the main thing. I'll be honest. It's unbelievable that one We're squatting right mark squatting and and I remember Finish the video and I was like fucking hate rubbers, right? It's just the only tagline I use I put on social media People come up to me in the airports people yell out to me at night clubs. I'm in Scottsdale. They're like Joe Donnelly I hate rubbers People post on my fan page.

I had to block my mother from Facebook. She's like, Joseph text me. Why are all these people commenting, saying that they hate rubbers just like you? She's like, I'm like, mom, that's not what they mean. I tried to explain, but she has no concept of it. She just thinks that her son is promoting unsafe sex. Yeah, I'm like, it's bitter rubber on me.

I was just like, mom, it's not, no, she's understands. Like, well, Joseph, you should be a real model. I am, but you don't understand. That's how I meant, but she didn't get it. Now, Joe, do you have your own band company or do you work with, you do? No, I'm my own band company. And it's the first order they screwed up from China.

So they're resounding now. So are they, you don't have any first sale yet? No, they will be soon. Probably, soon to three weeks they're coming. You should, we should do like a thing for mind-pumplisters. You can hook them up with like sometimes since they're big fans of you. I would be happy to.

All right, so we'll get some discontinued shreds products and we'll hook them up with some bands. You're gonna, your gains will go through the room. So we'll give you a free download of the app that makes your ass bigger. I mean, it's perfect. Are you, are you still doing like performance training like athletic type training? Do you still do that?

Uh, I go in phases. Um, so as it starts to get warmer, um, I start to do more like sprinting and stuff outside. Um, I'm actually going to get back into probably the next month or so. Um, I still love to do hand cleans and power cleans. Oh, so the Olympic stuff. Yeah. So I'm going to get a little bit more into that. Um, you know, I started doing, I hand cleans and power cleans. Oh, so the Olympic stuff. Yeah, so I'm gonna get a little bit more into that. You know, I started doing, I'm moving more

in towards a lot of compound lifts now, minus the bench press and stuff because I heard it's my shoulders. I just like the way it makes my body feel. You know, there will be a workout each week where I'll focus on some my symmetric stuff because you have to do some of that. But I just really, I'm really enjoying moving weights

and focusing on more compound lifts. I think the deadlift started that trend, like in the way it makes my body feel a little bit. Well, how do you feel? What do you mean by that? I feel better. I think, just the way I live my life, the lack of sleep in the hours and training like that,

too much bodybuilding stuff, it wears you down. You know, you don't recover as fast, but I think when you do more multi-joint movements, you do them properly, you know, don't try to take the ego out of it, Adam, we were talking about doing that, that shoulder press. And I tried to do that, see what you call that? See the shoulder press?

See the shoulder press? Yeah, and it's like, I haven't really, you know, done any shoulder presses for so long because my shoulder injuries, because they hurt, you know, like I'll do light ones with bands, but like 20, 30 pound dumbbells, but try to focus on contraction and proper form, pressing them out, but I haven't done

like over the head barbell presses and stuff. And so it's, but now I'm moving more into, you know, multi-join movements and stuff. And I'd like the way it makes my body feel. The evolution. Yeah, excellent. I love it. The fact that you said it makes, the way you makes you feel.

This is something that people who are in the, you know, the, the business of looking a certain way would never say It was never about how they felt was all about how they look as a result though Let me ask you this now you like the way it makes you feel do you notice any changes in the way you look? I mean I look but I mean I looked like better than ever. I mean I I'll say I'm probably you look okay I'm a level 12 pounds ever last time. I was just gonna say I know I said you were bigger and you were made fun of me But you are yeah, you are bigger. I'm bigger. Yeah, I'm I said you were bigger and you were made fun of me, but you are. You are bigger, that's how I'm bigger.

I'm bigger and as lean as ever. Like I said, I will say certain people's body types are spawned with certain things. Training one way for too long is being proven to doing anything one way for too long. Of course, it's silly. You need to alter your training style. I think having friends like you guys

has opened up my eyes to that. You know, my father always told me like the worst type of business manager is someone who thinks they know everything and it's not open to new ideas. And you have to be able to new ideas because there's a lot of people that are researching different areas. And now here's me, if you go to the gym,

if you go and do CrossFit and you're happy with it and you do it because it makes you feel good, that's great. Don't change anything. Of course, if you go and do CrossFit and you're happy with it, and you do it because it makes you feel good, that's great. Don't change anything. Of course, if you're a doctor attorney or you're a father going through a rough breakup or whatever your reasons are, that's your outlet, you feel great, then don't change anything.

Whatever gives you your pleasure. However, but if your goals are physical performance or physical appearance or combination of both, you have to be able to open your eyes to new concepts and both nutrition and training. Better pathways, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. About seven years ago, seven years ago,

I was, you could have called me a meathead. I was super into just the, you know, the, the bro workouts and, you know, eating seven, eight meals a day, whatever. And I had this physical therapist that worked in my facility and she also had just completed her yoga certification. And she had convinced me, and I wanted to support her because she was gonna teach yoga in my facility and she also had just completed her yoga certification. And she had convinced me and I wanted to support her because she was going to teach yoga in my facility. So I was like, I'm the owner, I got to do yoga, but I used to scoff at it. And I'll never forget, I did yoga with her, I did it twice a week for, it was like four weeks, it was short.

And low and behold, I'm getting stronger. I'm getting stronger with weights, I'm getting stronger with my dead left, I'm getting stronger with my squat. And that's, that was when things started to change for me because I started to realize, hold on a second, like there's value in a lot of these different things. And the key really is to be able to utilize them in the way you want, according to what your goals are, my goal was to get stronger in the gym

and build more muscle. So I wasn't gonna train like a yogi, but if I utilize some of those, some of that corrective flex, correct the fleck. Definitely benefit, for sure. And functional flexibility, you know, made a huge difference. Well, a big part of the problem with the industry is what you're, exactly what you're saying is you get some of it that there is benefits to that.

There's total benefits of what Joe is saying right now. And then everybody gets like infatuated with that one modality and that one way. And then they, then they, they fucking put everything down on it. And then they feel like they got to defend it to the tee while it's the better this person. Well, it's also the people that started, right? They're the ones that want everybody to just do this as the system.

Yeah. So, you know, if it starts there, then they're gonna kind of go off with that mentality. So, I don't know, it's very tribal. You actually have this modality. I still get shocked at how, even now how close minded I can be without even realizing, like I'll give you an example,

when we started, like pre workouts don't work. Mate. You wanna get into that? You don't wanna get into that. But I'll tell you what, when we started Mind Pump, I understood kettlebells, I understood,

I had utilized them, but I never really made them a part of my workouts. Justin loves kettlebells, I understood how to utilize them, but I never really made them a part of my workouts. Justin loves kettlebells and would preach about how they helped them a lot with the shoulder mobility. And so I started incorporating just a regular kettlebell shoulder press, and I'm blown away by how much that has made me stronger in my barbell movements. Simply because it was something different,

and in my mind I'm thinking, what's the difference? I'm pressing something overhead, I'll just use a dumbbell. But it was different enough to change how my body responded, it made a big difference. So you have a fundamental problem with Justin's Instagram. Because sometimes he, I'm scrolling through what I'm real busy on the day, but I'm trying to like pick up little tips and stuff. So I'll glance at one of your posts or one of yours.

But sometimes he posts, like I know he's knocking people, they're made up exercises. Oh, right. And so for a wee silence. Wow. Yeah, so for a while, I'm like, oh, he's making fun they're made up exercises. Oh right, and so for a week I was in there. Yeah, so for a while. I'm like always making fun of something. Yeah, is he being serious? Oh, he's always making fun of saying they always making fun of Peggy halfway trying to do Deadlifts on the leg press, you know like Whatever, right, but then he'll post something good and I'll miss it because I think he's talking shit

And so then I went back I saw I was you know, I went back like a couple weeks when I saw posts And I'm like one that I saw I thought was him talking shit turned out to be a valid explanation I'm like there has to be like a like a graphic or something Alright make me in different colors I see Trying to be funny, you know, I mean Yeah, at the same time like you know trying I know I I mean, I had this thing. You do a great job. But like, yeah, at the same time, like, you know, try, I know, I've been in the industry

just as long as everybody else in here, you know what I mean? And so it's like, I see it all, but then I try and put a sarcasm in there too. Oh, that's hilarious. And it's like, well, you talk balance. You talk on your Instagram, like you're talking to us. And we fucking know you, so we get it. Right.

Well, there's a flaw there. I want to touch on for a second, these people, like changing these exercises in the gym, like somebody posted. Oh, there's a flaw there. I want to touch on for a second, these people, like changing these exercises in the gym, like somebody posted. Oh my God. That's my favorite. They're like doing the standing leg curl on a lay down leg curl.

I'm like, time out, wait a minute. There's a standing leg curl machine right next to me. It was right in the background of the video you saw it too. I'm like, furthermore, if you're laying down versus standing, it's the same fucking thing. It's no a conversation. We just laying down like what do you mean? But the machine was right behind you Yeah, you know what I like they're like seated calfrest on the lap pull down I'm like just go you see the caprest put away the weights I did it's just

The craziest one and this guy I believe he's a pro I believe he's a pro men's bikini guy too He's on his knees on the sweat. I'm throwing a bikini guy on his knees. He's a shot. It gets better. All to get third place. He's on his knees with a Smith machine on the side of the Smith machine on the track part is and he's got the side where you load the weights and he's on his knees and he's doing, you know, working his inner chest.

Oh, he's pressing it up on his side. The inner chest one is my favorite. Yeah, he's working the inner chest on the on the Smith machine on the side of it on his knees. It was on this like, wait, so he wasn't even he didn't have like the barbell attached to the line. He's on the smooth machine, but doesn't even realize it's on two rails and it's gonna like catch on one side. So he's retarded and also stood up. Wow. And look, we do have open minds, but here's a deal. There's a

there's a cost. That open. There's well but here's a deal. There's a cost. Not that open. There's, well, here's a deal. It's a waste of time, that's all. It's like, if I'm gonna do something, that's gonna give me, it's gonna give me one percent return for 40 minutes being spent. Why?

Why when I can go get, you know, 70% return and spend 20 minutes. And I always feel like I have to explain myself when I call that shit out, because then I always get a bunch of fucking idiots that, you know, come after me and be like, why, at least he's in the gym doing something. I ain't no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, fucking idiots that, you know, come after me and be like, why, at least he's in the gym doing something. Yeah, because everybody's so super positive.

You know, everyone's all like, you know, we're here to all the fitness people are all inspirational. You're seeing what's in your head and having for bands. Yeah, having a medic guy like me comes along and be like, that's fucking stupid. Good, you know, like, hashtag, good, nice guy. Oh, this guy looks like an idiot. You know why people do that? I realize it's because they, they're hoping if they keep saying, good vibes only on my page is so no one will attack them.

They're like, they're like, you know, it's like there was certain men's physique clowns and all of a sudden became, you know, Jesus Freaks after they won their men's physique Olympia. And it's like dude, be like, you just knocked out your girl and we're doing a bunch of blow the other night. And might've gotten ahead from a transvestite.

And now, and now you are a Jesus freak, but you're still in Vegas parting doing drugs and whatever. But I'm sure on Sunday morning God forgives you because that's how the world works. So these people post like these quotes from Christ and good vibes only, because they don't want anybody to attack their page. And I honestly, like,

or they'll delete or block anybody. Yeah, but they'll block anybody. That's one, I'll tell you what, one of the things I respect most about you is you don't do that. No, it's argue back. When I go, when I go, I love it, man, you kidding? When I go in your comments section. Come at me.

There's people that, and there's people that talk shit just to get you to say something back to them. Absolutely, but here's the thing. But you don't block them. By the way, I'm like, listen, but listen, if you think because you can throw a few punches, you wanna step in the ring with Ali,

you better well know. Like, dude, like, and if you're, I have a problem with private pages, like dude, you're gonna come attack me and talk shit but your page is private, like come on. Like come on, come on private page guy. Put if your page is public, man, best believe, I'm a quick researcher.

I will fucking have five points to bear you. Oh, you used to date a girl named Linda back 108 weeks ago, guess what? Linda used to blow me once you were born in my house. Like, I will fabricate stories and I will tag some of my followers and they will all chime in and you will want to hate your life. I mean, how many times the past six months have I had guys delete their Instagrams all because they try to come at me in a post like to our nurse reds?

Like, God, if you catch me the end of the day when I'm on my game and Adderall hasn't worn off yet, you're fucked. I'm on my game and anadirale hasn't worn off yet You're just saying man instead of blocking If anybody takes that stuff seriously like you got a fucking fundamental Well, if you don't I mean to me you're a good fun. You're a half-wit if you don't realize it just like I keep trying to tell South to be more like that because you bait people. Yes. And you set your baits the one that's different. Yeah. And I get it.

And I try to tell Sal at time like, do when you do something that's way too smart, you know, like where there's nothing debatable in it where you like, lay out all the science. I'm not interested. You're just going to get a couple of nerds to like say, oh, cool, nice post. That's it. No one's going to come on and talk shit to you. I'm like, what you got to do is you got to say some real ignorance shit.

You know what I'm saying? That's going to get everybody angry. And then you fucking drop the hammer on it. That's the formula. That's the formula. So that was with Mark. I mean, I was like, dude, I'm like, you're so opinionated, but so intelligent. I'm like, you need to be an asshole. He's the most extreme.

It was like opening Pandora's box and giving it a push in the ass and saying, here if I'm like, dude, he took it in with it. No, he went to look at his page. I'm like I Thought he's like some young punk kid at first. Well, I firstly this pace it very first time I was like do this fucking kid is crazy So he doesn't he doesn't write all crazy long posts You can't tell he's really intelligent until he starts commenting and talking to him like oh shit this ain't no fucking you is this he will be he will be falling now he will beat you in and then when like Jim Supani like he baits Jim and then

he destroys Jim and DM and then Jim just like I can't handle some of the block you know because you know why because he thought he was a fucking kid he's like I'm gonna punk this little kid oh shit yeah see now let me ask you this, because you go to all the fitness conventions. We have yet to go to. I've honestly, I've been aboard it. I mean, the only one I've gone to the last two years have been the Olympia.

Really? Okay. I pull back. I mean, with the San Jose, you didn't go to Arnold or anything. No, you know, I tried to separate myself as much I can from that world. I know a lot of people have to be part of the world. That's their business, but my business works better for me being separated. And also, I also hate to sound negative, but reality is the truth of that, you

get to immerse in that world. You get to immerse around those people. You're going to get caught up in some negative circles of things of people pretending to be your friends, but then they're jealous of you because of your success. I see it. I'm like, dude, you were just at dinner with so-and-so girl in Vegas, and now you're hating on or running your mouth. It's like, I want to be around those people. Everybody loves to talk about everybody because they're not as successful as so-and-so. It's just just like, you know, why subject yourself? It's unfortunate, but it's the main reason why I have no desire to compete anymore

and everybody keeps asking me, and I kind of feel, I feel like, because I did this whole journey thing on it and like everybody now wants me to see me like finish to like keep going, like try and get on Olympia. And there's a part of me that kind of wants to keep going through all of it, but then there's another part of me that I don't want anything to do with that shit, dude. It's so, well, here's the thing.

If it was truly a fair playing field, but the problem is it's subjective sport, and it's a very biased, subjective sport, especially the way the IFB and the way things have moved. I mean, it's now, it's just, it's become so obvious in the larger, you know, regional shows that sponsors are buying wins for people. You know, are we surprised? No, but it's so in your in the larger, you know, regional shows that sponsors are buying wins for people. You know, are we surprised? No, but it's so in your face now and the stories to come out, you know, and must have development and stuff of, you know, so and so judge was like, yeah,

they're like, well, the scoring was this and this, but we didn't use the scoring to judge, you know, let's talk about Kai Green and Cedric McMillan at that. That was the most interesting story. The Arnold was like, wait a minute, but according to the points, like Cedric should have won, like, but you're saying we just, we just, we just throughout the scoring system and said, uh, any, any mind you like, um, so I mean, it's just like, I mean, if, if the best man can't always win or what's the point? What's the point? You know, they're all making a big business out of it. Right. You know, it's, it's all, it's all designed. It's all designed. Is it, is a funnel system to pick out the people who are going to represent these companies

as other products? That's it. It's like American Idol, but on stage. And there's thing. I have no problem with that because it's not everybody has to understand the IFBB is not a sports federation. They are not recognized as sports federation. They're a company. That's it. They try to list themselves as a nonprofit, which they're going to be in court for that, but they're not, they're not a sports federation. So to think they're supposed to be conducted like a sports federation is foolhardy. I think we're competitors, especially you know, you young people that want to compete. If you want to compete and you want to do it for you and you want to prove someone, go ahead and do it. But you always have to understand that just because you may look the best

of the show, especially these young girls, it doesn't mean you're going to win. It doesn't mean you may even place well. There's so many competitors, it's so many shows, you're likely to get overlooked. Now you may be that one girl who's got a great look and a great physique and you, somebody may sign you to their team or whatever and then promote you up to the sport, but you have to understand that there's more, you're going to do better in the sport, not on how you look or how hard you work based on who you assign yourself with or who you promote you or what are you willing to give up to get wins.

Well, the way I look at it is that nowadays especially if you want to make a living based on how you look in that world, you're probably better off just doing it yourself through social media. 100%. do it yourself that way. Like you don't have to compete. And a lot of, actually some of the most famous people on Instagram never competed or barely ever did. So I think if you had to take a poll of the highest paid people and the quote of a fitness and bodybuilding industry,

none of them are competing. I mean, if you said paid for sure, not yet. I mean, popular ones maybe. Yeah, but like the people that are highest earners but like the high the people are highest earners, you know, people that are there. Because here's the thing. And I feel back is there are some men's physique guys that I'd like and I like their their message and stuff, but they're spending so much time flying around the world, you know, to one Australian doing this and all and that's great, man. If you have the opportunity to travel, use that window and do it, but let's be honest,

you're going to all these events and you're going to all these shows and you're dieting and doing this. What are you taking the time to cultivate personal business for yourself? Like sure, okay, you're doing some online training. It's putting some money if I came out with some teachers, but that's a narrow window when it's going to matter. What are you doing in the long term?

What is your six month plan, your 18 month plan, your 72 month plan, where do you see it? If you're not sitting down and you've got 200,000 or four or 500,000 followers and you don't have a clear cut plan or someone helping you with where you're gonna be three years from now, six years from now, nine years from now. You're a bitch, right? You're a fucking idiot. If you're just living for the next show and signing autographs and making an appearance, you're a fucking fool. And so a lot of these guys, you're gonna see that candle burns out here today,

going on tomorrow, and it's gonna burn out quick, because you can't get on stage forever. You can't get on stage. And they're wasting so much time traveling, they're not putting time, whereas the people that are, I'll be honest with the shreds athletes, guess what, I know some of their grinders.

Like people can head on Devon Feseek, and he can be a tool with some of the stuff he says, or in his Photoshopping pictures, but I know tool with some of the stuff he says or in his photoshopping pictures. But I know he's one of the hardest work out like, because I have a kid doesn't drink, doesn't go out. Him and Chad McBain, I've heard they send their computers, they pull all nighters, Fridays and Saturdays. Oh, I believe it.

Look at all the content he puts you. And they grind, they grind through emails and they work and they put marketing stuff together. So say what you want about their message and you know, we can all be, I'm a fucking douchebag, I gotta give a fuck, I mean, it is true, but I respect the work ethic, I respect the guys always.

But the difference is, is that they're home, they're here, they're not at the column, that kind of someone else having to travel. So they're putting time into themselves, they're building their personal brand, they're building longevity. Now, are they doing it smartly? Are they gonna have money down the road?

Are they gonna, who knows? But at least they're putting in the plan, the effort to try and execute it. Where the rest of these people, you know, it's like, I mean, I can look, think of, I'm not going to name it, but, you know, a well-known cover model, INFPB, the Keeney Pro, very successful. But it's like, once you're in your early 30s and you're not going to compete anymore, and you haven't done anything, how many of these girls, like, they haven't had real employment? Well, what skill set do you have when you're no longer going to be on a cover of magazine, you're no longer getting paid by your self-minc company?

Where are you going to go? And I'll be honest, it makes me a little upset sometimes. I'm like, because I know this girl is a good person. And she's inspired people for the last 10 years in history and then this one. She's going to end up being 35. And she's going to have nothing. And the gravy train runs out. It runs out real quick.

And people need to plan. It's not going to last forever. Oh, and the gravy, let's, it runs out real quick, and people need to plan. It's not going to last forever. Oh, and the gravy, let's be honest, ain't that fucking rich? No, it's not. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the, that's the, that's the problem is everybody thinks that like, I mean, I remember everyone thought, oh, you get a pro, so you start making money, like, no, there's nothing waiting at the end of the rainbow. It's not like that at all. Yeah, I mean, 95% of the, the IFBB pros I know are broke, live and check the check. I mean, it's just I mean, and here's the thing. If they were all killing up financially, then you wouldn't see them having to do, you know, do meal plans online

or repersonal training clients. They'd be on to bigger business, you know, and it's unfortunate. You know, if if you are, you know, one of the pro sports that people have to do that, they don't have to have side jobs. I feel like we're kind of like the NFL was in the 50s or 60s, where guys worked in the off season, hopefully maybe in 30 or 40 years or 20 years, it would be awesome if everyone who was an IFPB pro was making 3, 400 grand a year. We'll never get there. I don't know, but it would be great because these people do put in a lot of time, and I know it's hard to get up and do your faster cardio, which is stupid and then train clients all day and then work out

at night and somehow eat your eight meals of of tilapia and asparagus. I mean, that sucks. It does. I hate your life for you. But it doesn't it doesn't mean that you're not working hard. You don't deserve some type of financial success. But however, most people don't have the intuition or the acumen to go on develop it for themselves. I'm telling you, they're going to be left to the short end of the stick and it sucks. It really does it and the promise all of these young people that the buy into the smoking mirrors of social media, they're like, man, I just want to get my pro car. I just want to get sponsored. They

think that everything's going to be great. No, it's not. You know, like I saw an email, this girl we're going to maybe shoot for a cover of fitness arcs for women who's very successful, very choose to compete, but she got an offer from AllMax and she was a big name, a couple years in history and they're like, we're gonna offer you like $300 a month and $300 in supplements. She sent me a screenshot and I was just like, is that what this is?

I'm like someone who's been on like huge covers like you and competed the Olympia and I'm like, it's embarrassing. So people are gonna think that like, you're gonna get a hundred thousand, no, you're not. You're not gonna get a hundred thousand. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like they might send you like free t-shirts every other month.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. I don't, I don't, I mean, Craig, Craig Capurso was the only guy that personally that I met that was an IFE pro that had a decent contract that he was getting paid by a company. But if you look at Greg, Greg, he grinded, like he traveled a lot. He worked a lot.

And he's one of the OGs. He was part of the first men's physique class. I mean, he's sponsored by BodyBilling.com, so he's one of the faces of BodyBilling. So, I mean, and he's got a very marketable look to him. I mean, you cannot walk past Craig and not recognize who he is. Like, he's got a very marketable look to him. I mean, you cannot walk past Craig and not recognize who he is. Like, he's Thor. Yeah. So he, I mean, but that means,

and I'm talking to you about every, every pro, every mince physique all the way from the amateur up that I've ever met. None of them have that business, but he was the only one. He was the only one. And I'll be honest, and I've seen, and that was probably like three or four years ago,

the contract's worth, they were three or four years ago. Like people aren't, they are not, they're not paying the, most of them are like sales contracts now. Like you may get $500,000 or $1,000 a month based out, and that's what we're talking about people that are like elite, but we're gonna pay you commission on with your product code. You see everybody now has a product code.

They're saying buy muscle leg and use, you know, Dwight 15% off for so and so pushing this for 15%, everybody's got a product code because that's the way of social media. It's like if you have a following and you have a quality following, you can create sales. Shred started that.

It was a great business model and they created these huge platforms or all of these followers and the girls did huge commissions. And I'll be honest, some of those girls were making 45, 50 grand a month. But they're not there anymore. The sales are nothing now,

compared to what they used to be. But that was where everybody took their model off of that. And so you've seen companies like, wait a minute, why are we going to pay you so-and-so bikini pro 100 grand a year? They're like, you should be earning your money, which I kind of agree too. You know, because otherwise it breeds a little bit of laziness. And I've had multiple people tell me they're like, I don't want a commission contract.

You know, a men's physique guy who came and stayed in me last summer and trained, he's like, I don't want to, I don't want to commission, I don't have to commission contract. You know, a men's physique guy who came and stated me last summer and trained, he's like, I don't want to, I don't want to commission, I don't have to worry about converting sales. And I'm like, dude, I'm like, you're the type of person that I interview and I'm like, I can offer you a base salary of 50 grand a year, no commission or I can offer you 30 grand a year, but an opportunity to make 100 if you hit your quotas.

You're the type of guy that says, takes the 50. Takes the 50 and I go, okay, you're going to human resource. That's how you're going. Always a scientist and when we get to work. Yeah's how you're going. Always a sign of someone weakest. Yeah, like you don't have it upstairs to be like aggressive and be like, okay, he's gonna give me a quote and I can hit 100, I'm gonna hit one.

Like, Adam's type of guy would be like, fuck, I'm gonna hit 150. I'm gonna hit 200. I'll take your job in two years. I'll just, you know. You do, you have that, you know why? Cause it's the 80, 20 row. 80, 80% of the people aren't,

are only gonna make 20% of money, 20% are gonna make 80. And those people actually don't believe themselves. They're even the 20%. Yeah, they don't, 80% of the people aren't, are only gonna make 20% of money, 20% are gonna make 80. And those people actually don't believe themselves, they're even the 20%. Yeah, they know that they would want that. Oh, I'll just take my salary where I feel safe. Fuck that. What was that, that movie office base where he's like,

you know, he's like, I'm basically working just hard enough to just knock it fire. Yeah. That's like most people are doing. Yeah, that's really what it is. Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah, I don't think we could go to a fitness convention. Adam keeps telling us we need to go. I'm like, I don't think they'll even let us in. No, you can. I mean, listen, dude, if they couldn't throw me out of, you know, after I made all those comments about the

IFB, if they couldn't make me leave the show in Miami last year, what's they tried? But if they really, they came up to my side. I got a huge argument with young man, you know, I just berated him in front of everybody and made him apologize to lying for me. I got a huge argument with young man, you know, I just berated him in front of everybody and made him apologize to lying for me. And then we took a picture, let me and the guys from clastin, he had his arm around. It was the funniest thing ever. And Bruce from clastin, I can't believe you just verbally berated him and called him a fucking liar in front of everyone and called his dad a pompous asshole and then made him

apologize and shake your hand. It's like that was the greatest fucking thing ever. I guess we're taking you with us, Teddy, for going. That's the deal. We're going to take Joe. We're going to get a security guard who's making $10 an hour. He's going to ask one of us to leap, bro. You don't want to get your asshole for $10 an hour.

No, but let me turn it on. The fact came with a flashlight. I don't want to have to take any of you guys on and throw you out. I stress how don't want to take me on. Am I some, me and like fuck, no, I ain't doing that. It's not worth it. I'm sorry. Let them walk around.

Yeah, like my dental plan is not full coverage. Am I doing it? And I fuck it. You know, yeah, it's very hard to give orders and throw people out that aren't going to take them for me. Excellent. Hey, brother, it's been great having you back on, man. I appreciate it. Anytime come back on.

Always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Please leave us a five star rating review on iTunes and you can find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal, you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin in Adam at Mind Pump Adam.

And don't forget to check out Joe at Joe Donnelly. This is Google's, dude's back Donnelly and whatever. Dude's back. Dude's back. Or how to antagonize people on social media. Like the first search is Donnelly and then Adam. And then Sal, or if you can't Google Instagram,

how to make your family hate you, then Mark will show up. He's like my own sister mess and be like, we have to unfollow, you're so abrasive. It looks to me and he's like wanting me to say something like that was not raised. Like dude, it's horrible. I look at your page sometimes. There's stuff that I want to, there's stuff that I want to put like,

as you know, a Moji laughing around when I fucking dude, my followers are gonna see me laughing. I think I'm hell of a racist. He's not funny. Yeah, I'm just horrible. But I'm dying inside. I'm getting a backhanded mic. Like, I can't put it on the front.

Yeah, they need to come out with like a mic, but it's not like a full mic. It's like a wavering mic. Yeah, like a black eyed face. It's hilarious. It's like I think I had nobody season it. It's like I appreciate it. I can sort of thumbs up. I appreciate that you made the pose, like a wavering like a blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blighted blight Who likes the pose? Oh my god, it's a great idea. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because he'd have like four likes but 1200 BCC likes Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. For more information about this show and to get valuable free resources from Sal, Adam and Justin Visitors at www.mind pump radio.com Until next time this is Mind Pump

Until next time, this is MindPomp.