Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 440: Dr. Bhrett McCabe- Crush Mental Barriers & Dominate the Game of Life

Episode Date: January 19, 2017

Dr. Bhrett McCabe is the founder of The MindSide (www.themindside.com) and has been a practicing Sports & Performance Psychologist and a Licensed Clinical Psychologist since 2007. His academic credentials, professional approach, and understanding of competing in high-pressure environments have served as a foundation for his rapidly growing practice and influence in the field. Dr. McCabe presently works with numerous players from the PGA and LPGA Tours, the developmental tours, serves as the sports and performance psychologist for the University of Alabama Athletic Department, and an NBA basketball team. Sal, Adam and Justin speak to Dr. McCabe about what he has learned about overcoming obstacles and winning from his years of athletics and working with high-level athletes. Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee, Mind Pump's first official sponsor, at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

I always tell my athletes, be like the lion. If I look up on the hill, and there's a lion land on the rock, you know that's the baddest son of a bitch in this entire prairie. He ain't got to stand up. But when that lion stands up, everybody's aware. That's how I want you to carry yourself. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So you're gonna hear Mind Pump interviewing Dr. Brett McCabe. One bad motherfucker. Very, very cool guy. He's the founder of the Mind Side. He is a sports psychologist.

I guess you, yeah, that's exactly what it is. And he's a clinical psychologist. Kind of a renegade sort of sports psychologist. Very, very interesting individual. Great story, man. Great story. We talk a lot about the mentality that goes into competition, how that applies to life. He even gives you some exercises that you can do, mental exercises that you can do before

walking into an interview or a competition or something that maybe stresses you out or whatever. How to deal with failure. So many parallels with sports psychology and health and fitness and the types of connecting the dots that we talk to people with health and fitness. So his message was something that we were really excited to share with you guys. Great guy. Very cool.

He wrote a book called The Mindside Manifesto. He also hosts a podcast called The Mindside Podcast and you can find him online at themindside.com. So without any further ado, here's MindPump interviewing Dr. Brett McCabe. We've watched some of your videos and seen some of the stuff you talk about, very, very fascinating stuff. We've all had some in some form of another or another competed in athletic events, some of us at higher levels than others. And you talk a lot about the psychology involved with competition and I can't help but think

of how much that bleeds over into just everyday life. One of the questions I have is what got you into the psychology of sports? I mean, because you competed at a high level, right? You were a high level in college and there were lots of different ways you could go. What got you into psychology in relationship to athletics? Well, I mean, actually when I went to college, I was, I had no interest in psychology. In fact, I took one psychology class, which was a, a night class. And as a sophomore, I took intro to psychology

and there was a bunch of people in there who just really were not like me. And unfortunately, I didn't really go to class. You know, a night class, if you skip the second half of the class, you miss like a week. And I skipped a bunch and made a D in the class, but got sick with mono, so I was able to retake the final and pass it. But it wasn't until I was playing ball my fourth year at LSU where I was really struggling and I had come back from an injury. And before the injury, that was that moment of,

it was almost like Nirvana for me where the game was so easy for the first time in my career. I wasn't a highly recruited kid. I was a kid that had an opportunity. I was big, I was strong, and I had potential, but I had never really realized that potential. And I'd been on the first national championship team we had at LSU, and it just kind of,

I was just one of the guys, and I did everything right, but I just never really took the next step. And before I got hurt, I was taking that next step, and then I injured my shoulder, had some tenonitis and some bursitis or whatever you wanna call it. I just had some pain in the shoulder, and it messed with my mind, and it really, really got to me,

because I couldn't go out and play what I had done ever since I was five. And so when I went out to compete, every time I threw everyone was telling me everything I was doing wrong with my mechanics. And so I started getting so focused on the mechanics that the season ended up being a wash. And we won the national title.

I was there, but I really didn't contribute to anything valuable. Came back and thought, you know, I just got a law school and I've watched my opportunity come and go. And I've got the entire story written. And I had some opportunities early in that next season and did well at first. And then I met a moment where I came in relief in a game and it was a tight game.

My idol Nolan Ryan was sitting in the opposing team dugout because we were playing against his son. And I got out of a bassist loaded jam with nobody out. Came running off the field and my coach stopped me at the white lines and was like, look, do you want the good news or the bad news? And deep down I thought the good news or the bad news? And deep down, I thought the good news, or the bad news was he was going to take me out of the game because that was good for me.

Like I was always good at getting out of James, but I wasn't good about getting back out there and getting on top of it again. I just didn't believe in myself and I played very, very protective. And so he said, look, if you walk this next batter, I'm going to take you out of the ball game. Oh, yeah, a little bit of pressure there.

Yeah, a little bit of pressure. And, you know, the thing is he had won two of the last three national titles and he was a master of the mental game. He believed in it strongly. And at the time, I thought he was a complete ass. I mean, I thought he was, I thought he was unfair. I thought he was picking on me.

I thought he was, you know, identifying that I wasn't that good and he was gonna showcase this to prove his point. So I sat in the dugout, I worried about it. I went back out on the mound, I walked the batter on four pitches, he took me out of the ballgame, and I was really upset. He didn't say anything about it. The next day, I didn't think I was going to pitch. In fact, I didn't have on any of my gear besides just, I was going to do charts because he told me I wasn't good enough to play for him when he took me out. He said, you're just not, you're not good enough. And I'd waited four years in my hometown to play it LSU.

And in LSU, you would get 7 to 10,000 people for a game. So it was a big deal. And I'd actually mean about four other pitchers had to go to a clinic off site before the game. And so we're driving back, listening to the start of the game. We're eating a big mac because we're walking into the stadium because college athletes are always looking for free food. And our starting pitcher was in trouble.

And the equipment manager grabbed me and said, go get in the bullpen coach once you lose. I didn't have on any of my undergarments. I just had on a pair of undershorts and I didn't have my ankles taped. I didn't have on my lucky shirt. I didn't have on all the things that a baseball player should have. And I went into the game and got out of a unbelievable jam again. And as I ran out the field, he asked me the exact same question. And that question, this time really upset me.

It ticked me off because it wasn't about him picking on me. It was the fact that not only was I being picked on, but I didn't believe I could actually succeed. And I went out and walked the batter again on, and this time on five pitches, and he left me in. And I remember walking behind the stadium, or behind the mound going, okay, he's gonna let me work out of my problem.

Now, in the last two appearances that I had come in, I inherited five runners and no had scored with no outs. So I'd done my job, and I thought, okay, now I'm gonna get this guy out, and the next pitch I threw, that I can still remember, 20 something years later, the guy crushed it, and it bounced off the right field wall and the minute the ball made contact with the bat,

coach comes out of the dugout and he's just plow. And I mean, it almost hits the runner as he's running by me and he gets out there and he just is like, you're scared to death. You have no mental strength to pitch for me. And I was devastated. I was absolutely devastated. And I was devastated because I wanted this so bad,

but I didn't believe I could actually do it. And when I got out there, when I sat in the dugout, you know, you throw your normal hissy fit and you act like you really put deep down, I didn't believe. And I went and saw a guy who had kind of started working with it at the beginning of the year. And he asked me a question. He said, what did you want to do out there?

And I said, well, I wanted to get the guys out because what was your goal at that first batter? And I said, well, the goal is a pitcher as we knew this in our program is that if you walk the lead off batter, 80% of the time they score. And our coach used that as kind of a watershed moment to see how tough you were. Maybe you walked about or so, but if you did it all the time, that's a sign of a pitcher who's got issues. He can't trust that pitcher into a big game. And the guy is leaning back in his chair. And he was actually a hypnotherapy guy. And he was northern Irish. He didn't know anything about baseball. But he said, what do you want? And I said, what do you mean? He goes, if I could just wave a magic wand and give you the perfect scenario, what would you want? And I said, you know what, I want to strike out

every dude I face. The problem was I had gone before I got hurt throwing 90 miles an hour with a nasty curve ball to throw an 84 miles an hour with a looping curve ball and I had to develop a slider. And I thought, there's no way I can strike people out in the SEC. This is the best college and this is the best conference at college baseball. I don't have a chance. And he said, well, what would you have to lose? I mean, you're not gonna play much more anymore. Anyway, that's all right. So I decided that day to change my entire mindset. And I went out there and I said,

I'm gonna strike out every guy I face. And if I walk up, it's just another guy I can strike out. And the next game I went into, and I think I pitched like five innings, had just an unbelievable day. And then it just snowballed. And I started pitching in bigger games and bigger games and ended up pitching

in the college world series as a guy who threw 84 miles an hour from the right side, which is not very hard, had a really good slider. But I ended up leading the team in lowest DRA, few as hits, some of the lowest, highest strikeout numbers, lowest walks in the conference. And it was funny because people would say, how do you get so many strikeouts?

And I was like, well, it's because I'm out here to strike you out. And I can remember guys getting along O2 and spinning a slider up there because I really ended up developing a really good slider. And they would hit it all the end of the bat and I'd be so angry because I wanted to strike them out so much. And it really clicked into me as the mind when we lock into what we want, we are unbelievably powerful. But our default is to prevent things from happening. So I went back to see my guy that over the summer, and I remember sitting with my mom and dad, and we had a friend of ours who's a psychologist, and she's like, why don't you go into psychology,

and I'm like, and there's a lot of liberal arts people in that stuff. That's just not me. And I was a semester from graduating. I had just gotten engaged to my now wife. And I was like, you know what, I got one more season of ball. Let me see what this is. And I looked at it, changed my major fell in love with the degree. And then thought, you know what,

if I'm gonna be a psychologist, I wanna be a clinical psychologist, I wanna be trained with the best. I wanna understand both sides of the continuum, the best of the best in the world and the people who are struggling to make it day to day. And so I did my training in clinical psychology and specialized in injury rehabilitation and medical illnesses, combination with psychological issues, and put together a pretty good opportunity

in grad school and got into LSU, which was a pretty tough feat. And then did my residency or internship at Brown Medical School up in Providence, Rhode Island, and specialized up there. And so I was not a guy who dreamt of being a psychologist. It wasn't what I wanted, but it's what I am today. Wow, you know, I've heard that you tell this story and it's such a great story. You made a point, though, listening to you

tell at this time right now where you said the first time that he came out and he made that comment to you about, you know, listening, you walked this next guy, you kind of committed him for saying that. So do you think that that is actually was actually a smart strategy on his plot to say something like that to you? Yeah. And I give tons of credit to coach Burtman.

And so about five years, six years ago, I went back to his house and, you know, it coaches still one of those guys. I mean, he's a legendary man and his daughter was my mentor in grad school. She's passed away. But I remember sitting in his house in his chair, nervous, loved the man to death, and I said, coach, do you remember the day you changed my life?

I said, there's three people that I look at as mentors in my life. I said, my mom, my dad and you. Do you remember the day you changed it? And he said, March of 1994. And he said, Brett, he said, you got to understand the role of a coach is to understand and to learn about the players So intimately that you know what buttons to push wow, but then it's not just that you got to know when to push him How often and he said I waited four years to push your buttons

He said the day your dad came in with you. He said your dad was retired Air Force guy And he said the day he came in to meet with me about you coming to play it LSU He leaned across the table and simply said, I have been with him for 18 years, it's your turn to make him a man. He said, do what it takes. Oh, shit. Wow.

Wow. And coach remembered that. And he remembers it to the day. And so last year we had a reunion of our first national title team. And I was a red shirt. I was a pee on on that team. I did everything that was asked.

I mean, I'll wash clothes, I threw batting practice. I was the scout team. And I could tell source, I was locked in bathrooms. I got stranded that was asked. I mean, I'll wash clothes, I threw batting practice, I was the scout team. I could tell source I was locked in bathrooms. I got stranded underneath bleachers at a game where the two lane fans were pouring beer on me. I mean, I would do anything to be there. And he walked up to me on the field, and I still seem quite often. He put his arms around me and he said,

you know, I love you, right? And I said, yes, sir, you know, I did that, right? And I said, I think so. He said, because I loved you so much, you never believed in yourself and I had to wake you up. So you asked that question. And to me, there was no doubt why he did it. And if he hadn't done that, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. Wow. You said something very interesting earlier where you said you were really good at getting pictures out of or getting out of bad situations, but then once you did that,

you weren't good at maintaining it or continuing to succeed. Now, what was that? Was it just a fear of success? Or was it just that you had set yourself up for these expectations? What were you scared of? And how often do we see that? And what does that mean for people?

Well, that's a great question. So yeah, to me, it was success is what I feared. I feared that if I came in and did a good job and had a good game, and he was going to put me in against better competition, and if he put me in against Florida, Georgia, Texas, A&M, University of Texas, I didn't think I could live up to it, and I was setting myself up to let my team down. So I deep down doubted myself, and that's a very, you know, self belief is so important, and when you doubt yourself, it's, we all have doubts, okay? Doubts are normal. Doubt, there's nothing wrong with doubts. But when doubts define you as the problem, and for me, it had defined me. So when I came in

relief of somebody else, I could use the adrenaline, but you would already messed it up. See, I was in a no-loo situation there. If you had already gotten the basis loaded with nobody out, I mean, nobody expected me to get out of it, but to start in inning and establish the tone. Now I never liked starting. I started one game in my college career, did great, said don't ever want to do it again. And it just to me, it was not fun. But relieving, I'd come in in the first inning or the ninth inning. It didn't matter.

I love the adrenaline. And what I had to do was hack my brain a little bit to kind of get in that mindset. But the mind, the mind functions in a protective mechanism. That's the default. It's job is to keep us alive so that we can, I mean, honestly, the survival aspect of the mind is to keep us alive so we can procreate. Okay. So that's why the fight or flight response works so well in our body. It's, it's so hardwired. Well, adrenaline and anxiety are the same feelings in the body. The only difference is our appraisal of the situation psychologically.

So for me, coming in relief, that was easy. That was adrenaline. But it quickly switched over to apprehension. And so I'd get into this protective mechanism of don't screw up, you know, it's like don't walk the lead off batter and then I'll, then I can be aggressive after that. We don't function very well in if then statements, but it's our default statement. Well, if I get a good job, then I'll be able

to work hard. If I make enough money, then I'll be able to do this. If coach likes me, I'll do this. If then statements are traps, there is no if then statement in life. You got to get out there and be vulnerable and be willing to stand out there, but trust the training has gotten you there and trust yourself, believe to be able to work through. And it wasn't until I was willing to stand out there, but trust the training has gotten you there and trust yourself fully to be able to work through. And it wasn't until I was willing to be vulnerable and accept the fact that I could handle walking batters. But damn, what I wanted to do more than anything else was strike everybody out. I had to hack my mind a little bit to say it is fun to embarrass somebody.

In fact, you're going to let a guy throw an 84 miles an hour strike you out. That's a shame. I still love that stuff. So you just said something interesting again about how adrenaline, anxiety, or kind of the same feeling, it's just how we interpret them. And that really struck a chord with me.

I guess it's all interpretation, right? I mean, fear can be very motivating if we look at it from a different viewpoint. Is that kind of what you're talking about? Absolutely. You know, emotion, the way we have it, is something's happening in our life, and we just have normal perception. Hey, look, you know, there's an opportunity here. So then we have a feeling in the body, and then we have to label it because we're not sure what it is. Okay, so also I've got this nervous feeling in my stomach. Well, if we identify it as fear, what it does is it kind of fuels negative thoughts

and other fear-based thoughts of protection. Like, oh my God, who's around the corner? And the best example of it is as a kid, you're laying in your room at night and you hear the windows and something's hitting the window and you're like, is that a burglar breaking in? Well, it's a tree, okay? But you misinterpret signs and symptoms

because fear is guiding your perception and fear is guiding your appraisal. But if adrenaline, you look at it and you say, you know what, I'm sitting out here, let me go out there and put on a show. Like, what do I have to lose? And now you move it, and if you think about it, the mechanisms, the motor mechanisms that are being run by fear are protective, but the mechanisms that are run by achievement and adrenaline are gold-directed. There's a big difference. So we got to get into gold directed.

I'll give you an example. Six weeks ago, tomorrow, I had my hip replaced. And 44, and I was terrified. I mean, I actually did a podcast on it. I was just, I said, I was just free flow, just, I'm scared to death. But my dad went through such hell before he passed away for three years and he never blinked and before when my mom came in he gave us he when he flew in the Air Force he had a

Emblem and it's a thing of St. Christopher about protection and she gave it to me that day and I saved his jacket He wore into the hospital the last time he didn't come out and I remember I put it in the back it to me that day. And I saved his jacket he wore into the hospital the last time he didn't come out. And I remember I put it in the back of the car that day. And I said when I park in that parking deck, I'm putting that jacket on and I'm walking in there like a boss. I had never felt so safe and protected. Instead of walking in there fearful, I walked in there with my head back with the metal in my hand and his jacket on. And to me that was a sign to say embrace this, you're not going to run to me, that was a sign to say, embrace this. You're not going to run from it.

Your hip sucks. It hurts. It's killing you. Okay. You got to do something about it. And all that was was a change in perception and a change in appraisal. I took something that was, I was scared to freaking death of. I mean, I had to get, I don't mind tells, I had to get medicine from the doctor so I could

sleep for a couple of days. I had a time. I mean, I knew when you have a hip replacement that cut the head of your femur up. I mean, come on. I looked it up. It's awful. But now I'm so much healthier six weeks later. But I, it's changing that perception. And that's how we have to do it in life. It's like, look, we have a choice in everything we do in life, either to embrace the opportunity and learn something about ourselves. And it may break us, and it may bruise us, but it's never going to kill us. Oh, I mean, some things can't if you're stupid, but or you just have bad luck. But the truth of the matter is the challenges we have in life are just that.

They're just challenges. So even if we don't succeed, what did we learn from it so we can get better the next time? And if we learn it that way to embrace things and say instead of being protective, like, you know, every day living with the red light on a fear of trying to protect ourselves and go, you know what? It's like the bully in the playground. The only way it shuts up is if you face it. And we got to do that in life.

Reminds me of a quote. There's no such thing as big problems, only small problems we make big. Yes. It's such a mindset. I'm going to take a left on you real quick here because it's a total selfish question. I have this like long standing debate that's always been going on through my, I know you're a sports guy, I know, and I know golf and baseball is probably your biggest expertise, but your mind is what I want to hear from with this argument that we've always had. So about pre-ven defense? Yeah, we're gonna, because I want to talk about that.

Well, I'm a little, I'm more, I'm more of a basketball and football guy, although I follow all sports, I just want to hear your opinion. Like, for example, a team like the Warriors, like, and I tell my buddies all the time how important leadership is all the way from ownership to the coaching and the psychology of the sport and learn, I mean, all these guys are professional athletes and, you know, we're the best in their area wherever they came from. So literally it's the ability to get all these people to move in the same direction. And I really truly believe so much of it is mindset that it is physical ability at that level. I want to hear what your thoughts are on that argument.

Yeah, then we'll come back to the Prevent Defense. So to me, you know, look, talent can take us so far. And for a lot of a lot of athletes moving up the ladder, you can be the most talented kid, but have the worst mind and overcome it because you're just more talented, right? So if you put Kevin Durant, I'm not saying he has a bad mind, but if you put Kevin Durant in the average high school, he's lining up against the kid who six foot one is now an accountant, right? And so he's just more physically gifted. All right. So then eventually you keep moving up the ladder

and you keep moving up the ladder and you keep moving. And now you go, wait, everybody's as talented as I am. And it's the ability and it's the comparing contrast between your capability, which is your underlying potential, your talent, things that you train every single day and your capacity to compete in the moment. Those are two separate things. So I was asking one of my athletes the other day

and I said, look, where you play, how many five stars were in your recruiting class? And he's like, eight, okay. I said, how many are still here? Well, three left. Why they leave. They're so talented. So they couldn't handle it. Why couldn't they handle it? Well, they're talent. They couldn't do the little things. They couldn't get beat every day and practice by somebody who's also five stars. It'll be a first rounder in the NFL, right? So they couldn't handle that. So what they were failing is, is their capacity. So every day, our capacity is a percentage of our overall capability.

It's never 100%. Okay, I want you to understand that. Is every day, we know that we've got this behind us. It's our overall ability, our capability to succeed. But when we apply it in the moment, it's always a percentage. It's always a portion. It's a ratio of it. So given due to a variety of factors that maybe are beyond our control, like weather, bad calls by the referee, you know, you just don't need certain abilities that day, like, you know, if you're playing football, it's pouring down rain and we're

not going to throw it a lot. But what is the mind is about maximizing your capacity versus getting caught up in what you don't have. So if your capacity today is 80% of your capability, let's say we could figure that out, are you going to focus on the 20% that's missing or the 80% that you still have? The best players, they're not worried about what's missing and they're not worried about validating

their underlying capability. They're worried about maximizing the moment and that's their capacity. The best athletes in the world, Michael Phelps, Michael Jordan, Derek Geter, Tom Brady, Mia Hamm, you name those players. They just wanted to go out there and whip you. They didn't worry when it came back and say,

okay, what did that mean about my overall ability? But a lot of us used the moment to prove our underlying ability because we have doubts about how we really that our underlying ability because we have doubts about it. Are we really that good? And when we have doubts about how good we really are, we look for validation every single moment. So, you know, that talent question is so big, but that's why the best of the best continually get better. They invest in their mental game and they understand how to get better. And they may invest in their mental game through their physical training or their weight training.

You know, Jerry Rice ran the hill. You know, they find ways to find an edge and to maximize that capacity in the moment. Now, that being said, how much of this do you think, especially at the professional level and probably the collegiate level, too, heavily ways on the coach? And do you have, do you off the top of your head, are there some coaches in the professional leagues right now that you're just like men? The what this guy is doing or the way he is with his players is makes all the difference. Do you believe that? Do you think that and are there examples of that that you see right now?

Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I think Pete Carroll with his work with Michael Jervais is incredible, right? Embraces and you know, he continually speaks upon the importance of what he's doing to develop the person first mentality Joe Madden Is a living breathing walking in cyclopetia sports psychology Mondras. I love what he does even though I'm a San Luis Cardinal fan I didn't want to see them win just because I didn't want to see them have the glory of Winning I mean their perennial losers. They should have stayed that way Bill Bill Bella check, you know, we look at it. We go, God, he just is so frustrating, but he's so consistently boring, which tells you

they're so consistent to a system behind that works. That's why players can come in there and be problems elsewhere, but they get there. And they, it's amazing how fast they adopt the Patriot way. I think Nick Sabin and Davos Swini, I think Nick Saban and unfortunately enough to get to see that firsthand, he does it on a daily basis. It's unrelenting. It's an unrelenting process to be in the best you are every single day and finding any edge you can to beat somebody. And I think Davos Swini now, I think he's embracing his way. The biggest mistake that leaders make is they try to be the person that influence

them instead of just being authentic to who they are. So let's say Coach leaves Davos and that leaders make is they try to be what, they try to be the person that influenced them. Instead of just being authentic to who they are. So let's say Coach leaves Davo and goes and gets a job. And now they need to be gregarious and laughing and cutting up and faith-based. But if that's not who they are, that's not authentic. You need to be who you are and trust your, I think, you know, coaches that leave the Coach Saban tree. They need to be authentic.

I think Jim McIntyre has done an amazing job of that. He has no problem talking to the media. Coach Saban doesn't enjoy that. So you just gotta be yourself. But I think if we look at, I mean Greg Popovich, I mean, come on, there's another one. So, yeah, and what I don't understand is, if we believe with the assumption that the mind

is a powerful tool that we can use in our favor, why don't we invest in it? But we invest, the mental game is 20 years behind strength and conditioning. Strength and conditioning, 20 years ago when I played, I remember when I was in high school, there was a guy by the name of Gail Hatch that was based in Baton Rouge. I don't know if you're familiar with the strength and conditioning world, but Gail Hatch had trained numerous, numerous powerlifting Olympians. He was the Olympic coach. He was a legend in the field. His coaching tree is so integrated within the sports world right now. It's unbelievable. And I remember going to my dad sent me to work

out with him and I thought, this is stupid. You know, I got to work with the broomstick. I got to do this stuff and I didn't really embrace it. Because in my mind at that time, strength and conditioning was corrective. I have a bad back. make me stronger. It wasn't constructive. It's constructive now. When a kid finishes school, high school or whatever, they have a strength and conditioning coach on board immediately. And you know, from the time these kids go through the draft, whatever sport it is, there's a strength and conditioning coach, a performance coach that's working with them every step of the way. The mental game we're not doing that yet, it's still corrective.

There are some frontiers that we're seeing where teams are proactively bringing on folks to look for edges. But in the next five or 10 years, it's not just gonna be corrective, it's gonna be constructive with the neuro-cognitive factors of human performance and finding the ways that we can perceive and maximize the way

of an athlete sees the field. Because if we know an athlete can see a field in one way, that we need as coaches, we need to get them in that position because everybody perceives the field differently and everybody not only perceives it, but it also interacts with the motor system in different ways. How do you and I are different? Yeah, how do you see like with all this emerging technology really influencing and becoming a big part of how these athletes are gonna train

and be able to see all these things from a different angle. And like, have you heard of the Halo technology as well? Yeah, yeah, Halo. The warriors are doing that, right? The warriors did it this last season. Yeah, Halo, and you've got... Like VR and all that stuff. Yeah, there's a group out of Nashville called Sports Sense.

That does a lot of really high-end testing, which is amazing. You know, I think one of the things we have to do is we have to make sure that we are maintaining the level of integrity of how we evaluate some of these tools. You know, most athletic departments or most universities or professional teams,

they don't want a lot of research to be utilized by their athletes, right? So they're not like, oh yeah, you can use me as a sample. But I think we do have to look at it and say, does it stand up to the mustard? Because for a long time in sports psychology, we've just assumed that how we're going to motivate them. Yay, we're going to ra ra ya. We'll help you build up your confidence.

And we're going to teach you how to be resilient. That was sports psychology. And what we're seeing now is more integration of the support sciences, which is the integration of kinesiology and neurophysiology and maybe some human performance mechanisms. And I'm excited about what the next 10 years are going to be, because I think we're going to change the game as a collective field, not one discipline over the other, but us working together to say, look, how do we maximize how somebody's doing? I think Halo's got a very fascinating product.

I think the brain training software in certain forms and fashions can be very good. But we're just, I mean, you know, look, we're just touching into it. And once we can showcase that, this is led to that. I mean, a couple of years ago, the Warriors showcased their data with sharing Ma on sleep about how they changed the way that they traveled after a night game moving coast to coast and how their injuries went down. And so what did a lot of teams do? They

quickly invested in sleep. But they didn't really embrace it. They just said, we've got a sleep program. Well, the Warriors owned it. They did it. It was a institutional from the top down and for a team to work. It can't just be, hey, we got some sports scientists and some sports psychologists over there and some mental coaches, y'all do that stuff. It has to be integrated throughout the system. There's those that I told you about before, that's what they do. Yeah, there seems to be a lot of like the fundamental basic things to kind of focus on. And I think, you know, like you were sort of highlighting some of those mentalities back when you were kind of giving your story as far as like, with the mentality was going into,

like if I'm focused on not walking this person, and that's kind of why I brought up like pre-vent defense, like you're kind of, you're in a different mentality than going in there to strike them out, right? So. Yeah, 100%. And so to me, I want them to have an edge. I want a player to look across and go, you're an asset.

Like I've got, you know, I trust you, Brett, and I feel like I got you on my team. And if you're on my team, I've got an edge. That's what I want them to be is, I'm fortunate enough in Birmingham, Alabama, and where I was doing my rehab this morning is at the Andrews facility, right, for Dr. Anders. You know, when you walk in that room, there's, there's an effect that happens. You're sitting there working out with NFL All-Stars and you're looking at it and it's like, yeah, you know, why do they come here to do rehab with Kevin Wilk and the team there? It's like, there's a reason for that. Now, does that

mean there aren't great therapists elsewhere? No, absolutely, there's great therapists. There's a halo effect that happens. Well, I want to play her to look at that and go, man, that fourth quarter program we did. I mean, it just wasn't hard. It made me stronger, better. And now if I'm in a prevent defense, you know, if I'm sitting here, it's like, I'm not tired. I'm just getting started. Like, I'm going to shut you down. We may be in a prevent, which I don't like that idea, but let's, we're going to shut you down. We're going to bend, but we're not going to break right now. And, you know, I want athletes always on the attitude of they have an intent, not a prevention. Purpose over prevention is always better.

You know what I find very, very interesting about sports and sports psychology is it seems to be, it is, I would say arguably a, like an example, it's like a microchasm of life you have. I was gonna go the same direction. Everything is very condensed, right? We have a game, you have a winner, a loser, you have all this stress, pressure, performance. You can grow so much from a single game or

a single season, and it's so representative of the things that you'll learn and go through in life. And I've talked to so many, we've been, I've been in the fitness industry for a very long time. I've been around lots of athletes. And so almost every single one I've ever talked to says that they learned so much about how to manage their personal life, how to manage their business, you know, work because of the things that they learned in sports. And we're seeing lots like you said in the next five to 10 years, you're going to see much more of an investment in the psychological aspect of athletics at the high level.

But if we go back and we regress down to sports with children, how do you feel about this? Everybody gets a ribbon, everybody gets a trophy, nobody, we're not gonna keep score, everybody, it doesn't matter who wins, everybody's, we're not gonna see which team wins type of deal. I hear a lot of people protesting about that

and saying, oh, it's bad, it's gonna teach kids, you know, the wrong things. Is that true? Do you agree with that? I mean, what do you think about all that? So I got two thoughts on it. One is, I'm tired of the articles that are berating parents. You know, yeah, parents are making mistakes,

but it's not the parents fault, it's the institutional faults. So all these articles are jumping on, you know, so-and-so as an ER physician instead of we're over-specializing kids. The reason the kids are over specializing is because it works. I hate to say it, but it works. You know, you got a kid who all he does is play soccer, he goes out on the soccer field, he whips everybody's butt, and everyone goes, well, my kid was playing lacrosse last

week, it's now behind. I mean, so it's a trap. And so part of the reason is, as parents, we have to be careful that we teach them a variety of experiences, but to the point about not keeping score, look, there's two people that are always keeping score in the stands. The mom and the kid on the field. Every time I've ever been in those environments, the mom is like, we don't keep score, but I mean, we won four to one.

I'm like, yeah, everybody's going to keep score. I mean, nobody's counting, but if we were, it's okay to have them. My son scored two of them, yeah. But we're undefeated. It's like, okay, we've missed it. But the thing is, look, what we have to do is we have to invest in training our coaches to be better. Even, you know, how do you become a coach in a little league

is you have time and you have an interest. So we need to coach them better. We need to give them the right tools. We need to support them and say, how do you manage parents? Because failure is important. We've got to, you know, I don't want to induce failure, but I'm not afraid of having failure drills.

And failure drills are something that I started a couple of years ago with my organizations, which is as a coach, put the kids through a drill that they think that they can succeed, but you know they really can't. So I wanted them to sit on it for a little while. I want them to come back two and three days later and go, man, that's thing. Can we do that drill again? Because there's half of your kids are like, coach, when are we doing that drill again? I

want to get it. Oh, it got me. And you're like, I don't know, I guess we're going to do it soon. But then once they get it, you go back and you say that drill was made where you cannot succeed. And I had this with a college basketball team. There was a drill that they do where they have to do X number of layups and whatever in a certain amount of time and it's a gasser and It's hard you've got to be precise and they bombed on it and Coach said we set it up as a failure drill And you know, what do you think the body language is? That's all right. It's no big deal. Come on Whatever we're gonna move on in practice coach went back to him and said you have a choice right now

Either you're gonna embrace this challenge or you're gonna allow failure to just be okay So you've got to be hurt. You've got to have it like popcorn kernel in the back of your teeth hurting. Like that bothers me. I want to get back at it. Not that bothers me that I did something wrong, but it's like I want another crack at it. And as coaches, we have to put our kids in environments where yes, we have some confidence drills, but we also have some failure drills. And those failure drills are like, look, sometimes you get beat. You know, look, you're gonna strike out, you're gonna set the bench,

you're gonna not be in at the end of the game. And yeah, you made me the best player, but today you're not the best. So what are we gonna do? You're gonna get out there and you're gonna compete and you're gonna have to deal with disappointment. And it's okay, is sure that's a fair comment to give a kid, but what did you learn from it

is the better question. So early specialization, I hate to say it, it's where it's going. I mean, in the state of Alabama, you know, I look at kids who, you know, baseball takes a massive hit because of football. The best kids are always recruited to play football, even though they have no chance

of playing division one football. But if they were on the baseball diamond, they'd play division one baseball. They're very talented kids, but they get gilted into having to play year-round football. And as coaches, we need to look at that and say, what are we really losing? We're not losing that much. Let the kids play two ways, play two different sports, and three is tough, but maybe two is

okay. And then we're going to maximize it. They're going to learn how to do a failure in one sport versus another. That's the problem with specialization, ultimately, is they never learn how to fail because everything is always geared towards them succeeding. I'm so stealing that popcorn analogy. You can see my picture. You're right. I realized it up a little overweight. That was a good one right there, though. I'd never heard that before. And I could just visualize the popcorn kernel on the back of my mouth. And it's like, you're not

angry. You just annoyed by that.. You want to get it out. It's you guys know training people, right? I mean, if you, if you, if you meet a threshold and we bump up against a threshold and we can't succeed it, there's certain people who are like, hey, when are we doing that again? Like, it's just they got to get back after it. Right? And they, yeah. We, we, we talk a lot. Why we are so excited to, uh, to bring you on is because a lot of we're definitely not your normal trainers. In fact, part of the mission of Mind Pump and why we started this is we're three guys that have been in the industry between 15 to 20 years, trained thousands of people. And we actually are trying to dive more into the psychology of it because we feel like the fitness

industry is putting the wrong message out there. And the message is setting up a lot of people for failure that they have to go beast mode and balls to the wall and you know you're gonna take all these supplements and grind every day and there's no days off and all this and that's not really long-term success with helping somebody with their health and fitness journey. And so we have a much different approach. And a part of our approach is teaching people how to connect the dots and

understanding the mental game that's involved with getting in shape too. Yeah, you know, for me when I when I exercise and now that my hip is fixed, I'll be back in the gym. But the, um, you know, the thing is I don't want to win a leaderboard in the gym. Right. Like that doesn't interest me for me personally. So you're like a cross fitter. I did a while to my hip one out, but I did it. And the problem is I'd get in there and people are like, man, I'm going to destroy it. And I'm like, I'm going back to work.

I want to win that. You know, like, like I want to win the work, but I have nothing wrong with the competition of CrossFit. I just knew that I couldn't compete against a kid. I'm six foot five. I couldn't compete against a guy in CrossFit who was five foot nine and ripped. I mean, I was like, so then I just turned it into my own thing. Like, I'm going to compete for me. Well, this is, and every day, I'm going to have a mindset of, I'm going to embrace the challenge,

and it did great for me. Well, this is what we, when we talk about CrossFit, because it is one of those, we're one of the few people actually that kind of talk out on it as far as a way for people to get in shape, because it is a sport. It's a sport just like football, basketball, soccer,

and if it's something you're passionate about, you love doing, absolutely, you can do it to get in shape. But the message and what's happened is it exploded all over the place and you have a lot of unqualified people opening up boxes that are training men and women that are deconditioned, that have all kinds of imbalances and injuries. And exactly what you just said is they're putting these leader boards up there and any of

us that played sports when we were younger have that competitive mentality. And you can't help but turn that switch on when you're amongst all these other people. Meanwhile, you're really not helping all these other issues that are going on. And it normally sets up a lot of people for failure or injury and then sets them back. And so the message that we give when we talk

about something like CrossFit is that, hey, I love it as a sport. Just like I love football, just like I love basketball, baseball, but do I think it's a great way for most people to get in shape? Maybe if it's for you, maybe if you think that going in and training at that level, because you wanna be a crossfit athlete at one point,

maybe that is, or maybe you've learned to turn it down and you don't care about the numbers up on there, but as a whole, that message is getting out, that this is, you know, CrossFit is the best way to get in shape. So many people are doing it. It's growing. And when I go around and I travel around and I see these boxes and I see the people that

are in there doing it, I'm like, it's not the people that we see on TV that are doing CrossFit. It's the 40 year old mom who just had three kids and had knee surgery five years before that who's trying to do a snatch and snatch, you know, it's like for time, for a time. For time. You know, which is just... And the bars are bouncing around. People say that is their own round of events. Yes.

You know, I get it. And the thing is, what I love about what CrossFit did is it did bring things. It did bring it to the mainstream, which is, get up and do things and you can get results, right? Commit to it and commit to the challenge. Commit to the competition within you, I think is an important way of looking at it. You know, one of the things I always tell fitness coaches and trainers is,

don't be afraid to measure, because as a, you know, the excitement and the motivation that starts me is gonna leave me once I don't see benefit. So you have to be creative to find other areas where you know I can win. So when I'm in that low moment, you can say, but look, let me show you this.

And you probably didn't realize this. And I look at it and I go, man, I didn't realize that that indicator had improved that much. And I remember when I was playing baseball going into my last year, I got very involved with a guy who was a very functional trainer. And I got my body fat down significantly, healthy ways. I mean, I was working with a nutritionist and him. and I got my body fat down significantly, healthy ways. I mean, I was working with a nutritionist and him, but it was so cool to see the changes on that

and then to also see the mass size changes and other facets of my body. I like that. And I've never understood why trainers and we don't do it to psychologists why we don't really set up indicators of growth. Where you can say, I guess maybe we do it because it takes time, but it also takes a little bit of risk to say why I'm just if they don't really set up indicators of growth, where you can say, I guess maybe we do it because it takes time, but it also takes a little bit of risk

to say, well, I'm just, they don't change. Well, stability is sometimes good. And so, by defining that for a client, to say, this is how you've improved. It makes it a lot easier for people to grasp and say, I'm making a benefit. Absolutely, you're just directing and identifying other areas that, you know, like, hey, I've been working out with

you for a year and I haven't lost, I wanted to lose 30 pounds, but I haven't lost any way. You look at and say, well, did you gain any way? Because prior to that, you were gaining and we've stopped that, we've stabilized you and people say, oh, wow, that looks like a win. I think being able to identify different aspects and facets of areas that you can improve that are not the standard, did I lift more weight,

did I lose more weight, did I make more work? Or are you even worse looking in the mirror or the scale? And that's what I meant by connecting the dots is, we have been got brainwashed to think that the scale in the mirror is our only indicators of health and fitness. And it's really, in my opinion, it's one of the worst. There's so many other facets to getting in shape, doing better, getting healthier than

just what the scale and what the reflection is showing us. And that's one of the things that, which I think is opposite of what the industry pushes out there, right? Because every supplement company has some gorgeous girl on the front cover of it and some bikini that's just amazing and she's super skinny and lean and that's the opposite message of what we're trying to send is that yeah, sure, those are two indicators. You can, look at it, but it's not the only one.

And in fact, you can look a certain way and be fine on the scale, but internally, a lot of things encyclodically, a lot of things fucked up. And I think you can combine that with, you know, not being afraid of not necessarily succeeding all the time. You know, your story started out with, you know, you went through this tremendous growth, but it started with a crappy situation, a shitty situation. I mean, how often do we grow from a comfortable, nice situation?

Never. It always happens when we're uncomfortable, right? Yeah, I use an example from my athletes. I said, look, if you were thinking about years ago, and generations and generations ago, and we were forming land, we would farm the land, and we'd put the seed underneath the turf, and you'd sit in your hope,

and you just hope that your entire investment would come through. How did you fertilize it? You fertilize it with with with CalShet, right? With manure. So in order to grow, you got to push through a lot of shit to get there. And for that manure to really take, it has to fertilize, has to grow and it has to fertilize the ground. But we sit back when we don't see is growth happening underneath the soil. And that soil is doing something. It's that environment. It's a healthy environment for the seed to grow.

And then once we see that first, you know, spriggling pop up or whatever that's called, where it comes up out of the ground, you go, oh, here it comes. Well, then that's when you better start preparing for the harvest. And so you better be ready for when it's ready to be, you know, to be harvested. And that's the same ready for when it's ready to be harvested.

And that's the same thing for us is there may be something you're doing in the gym today, but is it improving your sleep? Because you may say, well, that's not a one to one. Well, it might be. Because if you're improving your sleep, you're changing your biophysical and your biomechanal, biophysiological changes in the body, you're getting better sleep.

And so you're better able to stay alert during meetings, which means you're not cramming as many red bulls and as many diacokes as much coffee. And instead, you're able to function. And so what there are other indicators of improvement. Oh, absolutely. How about you? How about your attitude?

How about your energy level throughout the day, your relationships with people? There's so many other indicators that are showing that you're making improvements. And those are the ones that we try and highlight and point out to people. You know, Doc, you will something I want to ask you too. We, one of the things that we do a lot on the show is,

you know, we share these paradigm shattering moments for us through our own personal journey that, man, I remember when this happened and then it showed me this and we're revealed itself and we totally changed the way that we coached and helped others. Can you think of moments in your psychology journey that were like, aha, moments for you where I thought, wow, I mean, obviously we talk about the first one for you that would

set you on your journey towards psychology, but maybe even as you got deeper into it and learn more, were there moments like that that you're like, aha, where you apply to your relationships at home or friendships or job and success that you remember. Well, I mean, I just have one right now, one of my tour players called me yesterday and last night had had had had a history of kind of getting up near the lead, but never really finishing it. And he called me and he said, look, you know, I got into a tough spot on Saturday. And I remember sitting there and I went, there it is.

That's what Brett's been talking about. And I got in a bad way and instead of getting frustrated, I said, all right, let's see what we can do with it. I didn't choose to be here. I did everything right. I just had a bad way, got a bad break, got a bad, whatever. And he said, I ended up finishing the day tremendously.

And he said, that was the, that was worth the frustration I had on Sunday to learn that on Saturday. And I see that a lot. I mean, I, I see the yaha moments that happen for me personally, it's just, it's the opportunity to learn from everybody I interact with, and whether it's a client, a coach, a colleague, somebody who does what I do, it's that opportunity to learn because we haven't figured nothing out. I mean, all we've done is just had opportunities

to learn and gain wisdom. That's it. Now, if somebody figures it out, there'll be one book in the bookshelf. Now, having worked with as many athletes, especially at the high level, like you have, what are some of the things that you can list or the differences between those that really succeed

and those that seem to fall short? What are some of the, I guess the best practices or habits that you see among some of the more successful athletes versus those that maybe don't do as well? Are the things that you identified that tend to be trends within all successful athletes and those that are friends among all athletes

that maybe don't make it that far. Whenever I ask players like why you they go I work hard and like take that off everybody works hard to think they work hard. Okay, here's the things to me. The best of the best have a clear vision of what they want. They're willing to make sacrifices in order to achieve it and that includes sacrifice in their ego. Okay, so they're willing to be vulnerable. They have a based on what they want. They develop a plan to get there and the plan is something

that pushes them to get to a higher level. Okay, they develop resiliency and grit and they use failures learning patterns. And then ultimately they have a belief in themselves with who they are. That's that capacity moment. They don't need to be something different. I hear too often athletes say, well, by the end of this year, I'll be able to buy the end of this. Well, what about today? If I just all of a sudden called you up and said, you're playing in the Super Bowl tomorrow, could you do it? Well, yeah, well, then let's live that. Yeah, we have a plan to make you better every day, but right now you're pretty damn good. So they understand that, that they understand that they are good enough as who they are right now to go compete. That's that capacity, that they,

they have an intangible, a chip on the shoulder. Every great athlete has a chip on their shoulder about something. Everyone, and you've got to find that what it is for you, just surviving is what I was early on. That was it, but once I changed it to, man, I'm gonna strike you out and you're gonna be embarrassed.

That became fun because it was like, I'm facing a potential first rounderer and he struck out twice against me. I mean, come on. He's gonna be in the major leagues. This may be why a lot of some of these top athletes come across as super cocky, probably because it's part of their own process, right? What's the difference? What's the difference between true confidence? Oh, I just watched. I know I keep trying to tell you guys, I don't know Doc, if you watch a football life on, what is it, ESPN or football or on the, what can't be football on that one NFL network, but they just did one on Steve Smith, one of my favorite wide

receivers played for Carolina for years. Super like when you talk about genetics, a guy's super small for his position and plays at a just an unreal level. And he talks about the mental warfare that he goes into and a lot of people, a lot of fans, if you didn't know his backstory, didn't like Steve Smith because he got him fights on the field, he spun the ball every time he made some great catch. And a lot of people, just like you said, would look at him and go like,, oh he's cocky and he's arrogant. But when you listen to why he does that, it gives you this whole new appreciation for who he is. And he's always been the underdog guy who's always been that he can't do it. Oh, you'll never play it this way. Oh, you'll never, like, he's been

told that his whole life. So he spent his whole life telling himself, fuck you, yes, I can. Yes, I will watch me. You know, and so like, that's when he, when he's telling himself, fuck you, yes I can. Yes I will, watch me. You know, and so like that's when he's doing that, he's like so much of the game is mental, and when you make that first catch and celebrating that and having that mentality that you're gonna catch every ball after that, is so important because so many players,

he says gets defeated when they miss one catch, then they're like, oh my God, then they're nervous and they overthink it. He goes at that level so much of that is mental. And it made me change my thoughts on that. What do you think about that, Doc? Well, that's exactly that paradigm I was telling you about between capability and capacity.

It's easy for the underdog because they're not trying to win the capability game. They've already lost it. I mean, I'm nobody expected to do it. Leaning on it. Yeah, I'm already small. I mean, nobody expected to do it. Leaning on it. Yeah, I'm already small. I'm not very fast. Jerry Rice, I mean, that's what he was.

He was like, look, I'm not the most talented guy, but you can't outwork me, can't out prepare me. So what the underdog does is knows that they're gonna win the game on the capacity. Okay, so that's why the people who get off the bus and win it off the bus sometimes they've never been in the fight. All right, you gotta get off the bus and also know that you're the baddest get off the bus and win it off the bus, sometimes they've never been in the fight. All right, you gotta get off the bus and also know that you're the baddest dudes

or the baddest women walking in there. And know that when you walk in, you have an edge and that edge is your ability to compete. You're gonna maximize your capacity that day. You're not gonna rattle us, you're not gonna change us because we believe in our ability over time, we're gonna wear you down.

But if we don't believe in our ability to compete in the moment, we're relying on our capability to take over. And as a competitor, as an opponent, that's easy to derail because you don't really believe in your ability to compete. I mean, all I got to do is your paper tiger. All I got to do is blow you over and you're done. And so, you know, when you look at a Steve Smith, it's easy for him. If you look at other players, I mean, look, my roommate in college was a three-time all-american college freshman of the year. First round draft pick, he's in the college baseball Hall of Fame. And I remember the first day I met him. I said, hey, you know, we had just come off of

our national title. And I said, he was a year younger than me. I said, hey, what are you expecting this year? And he goes, I'll start. And I said, no, freshmen don't start it all this year because, well, I do, and he led the team and the team in the fall, he led the team and the team in the spring, and he's in the hall of fame. And, you know, it was, but he was, he was cocky, but he believed in his ability. He's like, nobody's going to throw up by me. Nobody's going to out battle me in the, he didn't work overly hard.

Like, he wasn't like, I'm going to be in the gym all day, so everybody sees how hard I work. He's like, but what he did, it was so cool. He had this little machine. It was a hand pedal and foot pedal that a kinesiologist had made for him in high school. And it would go through different series. It'd be like two feet one, you know, right foot

would be eliminated. And he'd have to pick the patterns and mimic it. And he could set that thing on the fastest speed possible and just pound it out at 100% accuracy. So he had unbelievable hand-eye coordination, but he knew he had an edge that nobody else could do that thing like he could. So when he got in the batter's box,

he's like, well, my hand-eye coordination is the best there is. Doc, explain that what that tool was again. I'm trying to picture this right now. I've never, I've never found it again. What is it? It's like a pedals on the ground in. It was, it had two hand pedals and two foot pedals. And it was, and so on the screen, you'd have four boxes and each box would have two hands and two feet and the like on the

first box it would have like two hands and their left foot illuminated the next one would have the two feet in the right hand illuminated then it would have just one and so it would you could set it at speed it would go you know essentially the fastest speed would be the equivalent of reaction time of hitting a 95 mile an hour fastball. Oh, wow. And so it would move and it would just, ding, ding, ding, ding, and Todd would sit there and just, and I mean, it was like watching magic. Okay.

Other guys would come over and I couldn't do it. I mean, I was a little pitcher. And so, you know, I could barely get him to work and he tied, could just sit there and he could just flow. Well, there was a reason why he didn't strike out. He could always foul it off because he had such unbelievable hand-eye cop, coordination, and was that born maybe,

but it was also refined. And so he would do things, you know, they all say, do things in the darkness so you show up in the light, that's what he would do. He would do things in the darkness before anybody saw what he did. And everyone, there was another freshman who was also very, very successful that was there.

They were freshmen together. That was the guy that was always in the gym and look at all the blisters I have. And he was a superb player. I mean, dear friend of mine, but Todd did things that other people didn't do. And people look at Todd and say, well, I mean, he's a Lou, he's confident.

No, he just knew who he was and he knew he was better. Can everybody else? Can you see this when you meet them, like when you, as I like a coach from a coach perspective, or maybe even as a peer, like, do you feel like for as long as you've been around this, like when you see a player that has both aspects, do you feel like you know right away? Like, oh man, this not only is he gifted, but this kid has got it mentally. And do you feel like you can predict that a lot? I think when a kid is willing to engage the challenge, that's usually a really good sign.

They don't have to be the, you know, the gym rat, okay? You know, there's a couple of things that I tell all my athletes is don't get caught up in the irrational beliefs that only the hard workers win. That if you treat people right, you'll be successful. That's not true. There's a lot of lazy people, and there's a lot of fat asses that have succeeded. Okay, I don't mean, I don't mean,

it's true though, that's a great, a great thing. Yeah, and I'm not equating lazy to being a fat ass. I'm not equating that. What I'm saying is, you know, I had a player one time tell me, he's like, look, this year I'm taking on nutrition to my team. I'm like, cool, why? It'll help me play better. I said, he said, so I'll play better. I'm gonna on nutrition to my team. I'm like, cool, why? It'll help me play better.

I said, he said, so I'll play better. I'm gonna work on my diet. I said, nutrition really makes that much of a difference. And he's like, yeah, 100%. I said, really? I said, then tell me why so and so's winning. I said, I mean, they're eating chicken wings. I've eaten chicken wings with them.

I mean, come on, it's not that big of a deal. And he's laughing. I see what you're saying. I said, your nutrition is an investment into your capability and also helps an investment into your capacity. But it's not a one to one as I do this. So for a lot of players, you have to look at things that you're doing and the choices that you're making. Don't get caught up in those irrational beliefs. Go look. And so when I talk to somebody and I'm trying to figure out if they have it, I want to see how they handle how they handle adversity.

Like injury history is very important to me. I want to know if they've been through injury. How did they handle it? Were they internal locus of control or were they external locus of control? Meaning, did, you know, did they say, look, I got injured and I am going to be the guy who's going to get myself back on the field? Or are they the one that goes, yeah, this rehab staff is going to do great stuff. They're's gonna get myself back on the field. Or are they the one that goes, yeah, this rehab staff's gonna do great stuff. They're gonna get me back. I'm just gonna lay here and let you rehab me. Big difference.

Wow. Big difference. You just made a statement. God, I just, I have to point it out because it's very similar to how we talk to clients is that, you know, with the nutrition thing and him eating wings is teaching. This is what I mean by the connecting the dots with people, is I don't know where, why we are this way as humans is that we feel like, oh, you know, oh, if I do this one thing,

then also I'm gonna be the superstar. Oh, if I do this, I'm gonna be this, or if I start training and lifting weights like this person, I'm gonna look like this, and it's like, all these things are, how did you say that? They're all, they're all, investment investments. Yes, investments in your capacity.

I love that. So, and so, and just to your point, one of my NFL guys was telling me a story, we're laughing about this and he goes, he said so and so in the league played with him. He said he's a legend, he'll be in the hall of fame. And he said he's ripped. I mean, just jacked up.

And he said every day after practice, he had 24 wings ordered and brought into the locker room. And it got to a spot where the nutritious on the staff was like, we can't keep doing this and made the biggest deal. And the player looked at him and said, I'm like the best in the league. I mean, go spin that on somebody else. And he's true. Like for that guy, taking away his wings.

I mean, he's 35. You know, he wants to eat wings after practice. He works as a soft in the gym. If he wants to eat wings every day after practice, if he believes it helps him, do it. All right. And too often we set those standards of what has to be versus look, it's just,

just deal with it. Like, you know, everything we do we invest. You know, the investment in our capability, we also invest in our ability to maximize our capacity. If I'm wanna go and say, you know what, I'm gonna take a day off, I need a day off. Well, that's an investment. That's giving me a chance to heal.

That's giving me a chance to chill out, quiet down, let my mind rest. Sometimes it's nice to go to a movie. Sometimes it's great to pick up a book. And so what I always want my athletes to do is say, look, am I investing in me? That's the only rule I have. Are you investing in you?

If you're not, are you doing it for somebody else? Then there's a problem. Then you're gonna resent it. You're gonna be frustrated, you're not gonna be happy. But, you know, if you tell me, look, you know, I like to work out at five o'clock at night. Okay, cool. I mean, why do you have to work out at five o'clock at night. Okay, cool. I mean, why do you have to work out five,

30 in the morning? Like that's a sign of mental toughness. Some people just start mourning people. Like we never might, at LSU, we never worked out in the morning. Because we played at seven o'clock at night. So we worked out at seven o'clock at night. Which is smart.

I mean, we have studies now that show that, right? That's the best time to train. It's when you're training the body and when you're gonna be performing, right? So, so let's say you get, so, you know, someone comes to you, they're an athlete or a business person, and you need, you want to give them or they want,

maybe some mental exercises that they can do before, a big meeting, before an interview, before a game. Are there any that can help? Is there anything particular they can do, you know, 15 minutes before, or the day before an interview, before a game. Are there any that can help? Is there anything particular they can do, 15 minutes before or the day before an event that'll help them be more mentally prepared for that particular event? Or?

Let's do three things here. Okay, we'll keep it real simple. One, I love an app called Headspace. I think everybody should do it. It teaches you how to diaphragmatically breathe. It was started by a guy who was a former Buddhist monk. He's a New Zealander, cool accent, 10 minutes a day. I love everybody to do it because breathing is one of the things

that none of us really do well. And I always laugh, I tell athletes, like you ever hyperventilated, you ever passed out. Yeah, what did you do? You fell down, why? Because that's the body's reset button and you start breathing right again. Okay, so learn to breathe first.

So you're breathing in breath. You're breathing in life. You're breathing in oxygen. You're breathing in strength and confidence. Okay. Learn to breathe. So you can do that. And so when you get in the interview, you're getting a big moment or right before you go

on stage, you give a talk. You can just look at the ground, take 3D breaths, slow your heart rate down a little bit and get more in an optimum state. Two, write down what you want. Like, what do you really want out of this? Simple question. What do you want? Like, you know, some people go, I don't know, I just want to survive.

That is the problem. What do you want? You know what? I want to go in there and dominate this. And so one of the things I did before I give talks is I step back and I go, what do I want to accomplish by the time I walk out of here? I want them to remember who I am and to remember this. And if they do those two things, I'm okay.

The final thing is I want you to trust what your strengths are. Like Chick-fil-A doesn't sell cheeseburgers. They sell chicken sandwiches. They have a system in place. They sell a hell of a lot of chicken. They don't bitch and moan that they don't sell the chicken, the cheeseburger. They go, you know what? Go down the road if you want to process cheeseburger. We sell chicken and It last time I checked haven't seen an empty chick-fil-a parking lot

So that's what we have to do in life. Trust what you are Don't get caught up in what you're not and if you focus in on what you want and you build in and through what you do well Then you become authentic. And that's what's really important. Look, I believe in this, I believe in what I do. When I first started out, I tried to be, honestly, 10 years ago, I was like, I need to be like the leaders in the field.

I need to, like I'm wearing shorts and workout shorts. Today I have a 6,000 square foot office with a putting green and simulators. I got jerseys on the wall and people come and go This isn't like any clinical psychologist office. I've ever been in them like yeah because it's not I go by Brett I don't go by doc I want people to just feel comfortable talking to me and I just do it my way and you know what I'm having a hell of a lot more Fund doing it my way than what I think it should be done the certain way and that's what I tell you to do in life

Hell yeah, I think that's a mind that's a great place to end right there. Mind pump fashion right there. That's a great place to end the episode. We really appreciate talking to you, Brett. I was fantastic. So one of my favorite parts of getting a chance to interview Brett was just, he talks a lot about the psychology of getting his, then the mental toughness

that he's teaching his athletes to be successful. I feel a lot of like our message when we talk about your health and fitness journey is the mental aspect and learning to connect those dots. And that's a lot of the reason why too, that when we came out with our programming, it was so important for us to lay out this, like, it's not going to be this quick 30 day thing. There's so many other mental pieces that you need to connect along that. And so, you know, our program literally, so our super bundle that we do right now, you know, that includes prime, that includes maps anywhere, includes maps, anabolic, includes maps, performance, and maps aesthetic is literally

a year's worth of programming for you that we're teaching you all these aspects of training that helping you connect those dots and so much of that I believe is mental. So if you guys haven't checked that out all month long, we've got a cell on the Superbino. So all month long, we're giving away the nutrition guide and the fasting guide to go with it. So not only do you get all the programming all set, you've also got your nutrition all set up and we'll keep adding to this process. We just added our kettlebells for aesthetics, is a mod that we threw in there. It also stand alone program by itself, but we just, our goal in our mission is to constantly provide you guys with quality programming. And we're going to just going to keep bolstering all of our programs and keep working on improving the whole process so you guys can have everything laid out and then we just all experience

this fitness journey together. Excellent. We've literally set you up for the long haul because we understand that fitness is a long journey. So you've got your entire year planned out. You can find the SuperMaps bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. you can find the SuperMaps bundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The bundle includes maps on a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs.

With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a fine-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.