Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 450: Garry The Lion Killer Tonon

Episode Date: February 6, 2017

Garry Tonon is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt under Tom DeBlass and Ricardo Almeida. Garry has competed internationally at the highest levels of competition and is renowned for his jiu jitsu technique and innovation. He has won numerous grappling championships and competed in several prestigious grappling competitions. In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin talk to Garry about his mindset and training that has led him to be a world class competitor. Get our newest program, Kettlebells 4 Aesthetics (KB4A), which provides full expert workout programming to sculpt and shape your body using kettlebells. Only $7 at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee, Mind Pump's first official sponsor, at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts!

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So we just finished interviewing the, an up and coming high level competitor. Super high level. And the no-gee grappling world. He's been called one of the things someone you need to watch, like one of the best pound for pound. Oh, if you're indigenous jizzis in the world.

If you're indigenous jizzis, you definitely know. You already know who this is. You know who's scariest for sure. If you're indigenous jizzis. Gary Tonin, awesome time talking with the guy. Great insight. He talks a lot about his training, talks about his philosophies, with training what got him indigenous jizzis, how he his philosophies, what training, what got him into Jiu Jitsu, how he works out, what it's like to be so focused

on being the best in the world, talks a little bit about the politics in that world. It's a great day, we had a good time with this guy. He's a fellow Kimera coffee athlete, and just again, great guy. You can find him on Twitter at Gary underscore tonan. Instagram is Gary Tonan and his Facebook fan page is Gary the Lion Killer Tonan.

They call him the Lion Killer because I guess he likes to go after. I think it's important to note his spelling of his name. Gary has spelled different. And Gary has spelled with two R. So it's G-A-R-R-Y. And then Tonan is T-O-N-O-N. So his Twitter is Gary underscore Tonin.

His Instagram is Gary Tonin. His Facebook fan page is Gary the Lion killer Tonin. So it's a make sure you get that extra R in there when doing Gary. He's also sponsored by Muscle Farm too, which is really cool. He's got a, he was rocking his rash guard that was his other sponsor by Arm Bar Soap, which is, I mean, when he explained that to me, just an anti-bacterial with like a T trio, so that's for ringworm and wrestlers,

a real popular Soap. Yeah, that's kind of a problem in the grappling world. Okay, you know, fungal infections, and of course the dreaded staff infection, which is actually actually killed some some grapplers out there. So we sponsored by that on bar soap and then studio 540. So those are the main places that you can find them was an awesome time interviewing this

guy. You know, every time we meet somebody that was tied to Chi-Marriage, it just reminds me how much why I like this company so much is just you can break kid for sure. Yeah, and they, and they, I really feel like they did their homework on everybody that they sponsored. I mean, they're just, everybody seems to be really good people, smart businessmen. They're all up and coming killers are already, I mean, he's already world class. I mean, he's not, I mean, he's up and coming in the sense that this guy is just going

to continue to grow his fame and continue to grow in the sport. But I mean, he's already a fucking badass. in the sense that this guy is just going to continue to grow his fame and continue to grow in the sport. But I mean, he's already a fucking badass. And of course, if you go to mindpumpmedia.com, there's a link there. You can get Camera at a discount. So without any further ado, here we are interviewing Gary Tonin. The only uncomfortable part of the about the Joe Rogan experience was somehow they ended up talking about women watching gay porn and then they wanted me to weigh in on it.

And I was just like, no comment. This is something to be silent for this one. I mean, I'm gonna take a back seat. I'm gonna watch that episode. Somehow that ended up coming out of somebody's mouth and I was just like, nope, it's gonna sit here silently. It is too go left for it.

That's like a thing. It's like a thing now, dude. That's like a thing now, dude. It is, it is a thing. I met a cheater. Yes, it is, dude. Bro, it's a thing. It's a thing. I told you guys, that's like a thing now, dude. That's like a thing now, dude. It is, it is a thing now. I met a chest. Yes, it is, dude. Bro, it's a thing. It's a thing.

What? 100%. How do I not know this? So, so, okay, here's the thing that you gotta consider, right? It's right after Gary says, I don't want, I didn't want to go down. I didn't do the whole, I'm just kidding. I'm gonna go down this.

I'm gonna go down this. It's too late now, I happened the last podcast. You've opened up the box, dude. It's your fault, Gary, you brought it up. So, I did. Because guys watch two girls all the time, this is one of my clients told me, because she watches, this is a long time ago. She says, look guys watch two girls,

why can't I watch two guys doing it? So here's my thing. She's single lady or somebody. No, she was married. She's straight. She's got hurtable situations for sure. Yeah, and so I was like, well, knowing guys, once it gets popular, there's gonna be a bunch of dudes

making out a bar of trying to get girls attention. Oh. You know guys, you know how guys are. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, she just goes, well, the male porn, male female porn is so focused on the needs of the guy. So it's just looking at the chick and like, you know what I mean? So it's made for men, essentially. So I guess in some way the gay porn

is more satisfying for them because it's just solely surrounded on focused on. That makes sense. That makes sense, on the best. That makes sense. That makes sense. That makes sense. It's still super weird for me to think. I mean, like when I think about my own porn interests, I'm not interested in really too much

in watching like two chicks very often either. So that seems weird to me, but it is what it is. I mean, I guess everybody has their own shit. Yeah, who cares. The weird part is when your boy looks at you at the bar sometimes and sees a group of hot chicks already and he leans over to kiss you because he's like, dude, let's try and

turn these bitches on right here. How do you react to this? He's not on it. We're away from that situation. He's like, it's guaranteed. Trust me. They'll totally be turned on by us. Yeah.

You made a pact. I'll wait. Listen, I'm going to try the harder way because I'm not going to easy route. Hey, so you guys are in town right now. Were you coming over from right now? San Francisco? Yeah, yeah, we originally in Portland Then we flew into San Francisco because I wanted to get a training camp in

With Jake Shields Yeah, so well what what would have normally happened is I would have just went home between the problem is it's like I lose so much time and travel I just lose a couple training days, and I'm literally, I competed Sunday, and then the next event's on a Friday, so it's like less than a week to even prepare. So I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'll stay on the west coast. I got good training in with Jake Shields,

we'll get that done, and then I'll fly over to L.A. and we'll get that next competition. So let's talk about that for a second, because you'd only really be missing, like you said, a couple days of training. Mm-hmm. Are you, you've been known as a fanatic, right? A training fanatic two, three times a day.

Yeah, yeah. Super consistent. How important do you think that is for your success, for, you know, because you've done very, very well over the past few years. Do you think that's a big part of it? Just constantly doing these moves and positions over and over again?

Absolutely necessary for me. I know everybody's a little different. Like some people like leading up to a competition, doing these moves and positions over and over again? Absolutely necessary for me. Everybody's a little different. Some people leading up to a competition, they like to take a couple days off or whatever, try to get their body healthy. But for me, I find it much more important to keep myself mentally stimulated.

It's not even so much the physical activity, but to just keep my mind in what I'm doing. Because I do believe that the approach that we take to Jiu-Jitsu is extremely cognitive. So if I'm not in it mentally and like thinking about the movements that I'm gonna be doing and going through those processes, I mean it is there's obviously a physical connection because I have to be doing it physically as well. I can't just sit there and like think about it myself. You're asking that way?

Yeah, yeah. I have to physically do it as well, but without doing that, I always felt like if I took a day off before competition because I've been doing this for a long time And I've tried everything, you know what I mean as far as preparing for a competition is concerned and anytime I would do that I would feel the first time I went to go grapple somebody. I would just feel like I was lost You know because I hadn't been doing it in a day and it's just it's all a little weird, you know familiarity Yeah, yeah, yeah, they say and so trained years ago, I did it for about six years, relatively consistently, not like you. I trained maybe three to four days a week at the most. Sure. And one thing that I noticed, because then I would do some kickboxing, I did some boxing,

I've done judo, a little bit of wrestling. Jujitsu guys seem to be much more, and this is a stereotype of Jujitsu, very cerebral. You see a lot of really smart, do they call it like chess, right? Like a chess stuff, is that, is that seem accurate too? It depends on who you're talking to. There are some people that take a very cerebral approach and there are others who take a much more much easier approach to.

Like who? It has to say like, Like who, there's a lot of guys in the sport that I think. You know, obviously they're the technical level still hasn't, it has to be there, but focus a lot more on, you know, like just getting, you know, bigger physically. And letting that be the way that leads them to victory, you know, and I mean, to be fair, you can't really argue with it. It's worked for these guys. So, you know, far be it for me to say that being huge physical specimens isn't gonna help these guys become more dangerous. I mean, because when you think about it,

and this is what our coach says as well, I mean, yeah, we all love to believe in this perfect world that technique is just, you know, technique is gonna be king. Like, if you just train hard enough and you practice hard enough and you figure things out, like, you know, you're gonna be king. Like, if you just train hard enough and you practice hard enough and you figure things out, like, you know, you're gonna be able to overcome, like, these strong dudes. And that's the, that's the mental image all of us get when we first start training Jiu-Jitsu.

We're like, yeah, that's what I'm attracted to. Like, I wanna be able to be like the big guy. You know, but ultimately, those skills combined with strength or what allow us to get things done. The, our skills aligned with our attributes. So, I mean, you got these guys severely increasing their attributes and at a certain point, you take a fucking 150 pound dude and you put him up against a silverback gorilla. I don't care how much you've trained.

How much you've trained. You got it. It doesn't matter. That silverback's going to crush your skull. It's going to toy with you like a small child. So, I mean, you know, it's strength and size certainly matter, but I'm just doing the best I can to take my approach. I wasn't giving those attributes,

and I'm not gonna go through artificial means to get them like steroids, et cetera. So, I'm gonna focus on what I've gotten, and try to make the most of it, and try to find a way to overcome, you know, these guys' strength and size. And that's a lot of what, you know, I focus my efforts on. Gary, how popular is that within Gets? Is there a lot of guys that are taking synthetics

to get the competitive edge? Do you feel like more than half, less than half? How many, how many testing is, is strict as like you saw that all hours? It's just not, yeah, you laugh out there. So that's, that's the thing, man. It's, it's huge because it's not a, it's not really illegal in most mainstream competition. Like, it is quote unquote, but you have one competition, I believe that actually tests for it and that's the G-World Championships.

And they test and not only, you know when you're gonna get tested and only the, let's see, what is it? I think it's like all the metal holders. It's 10 of the potential metal holders. So first, second, and they give out two thirds instead of, there's no fight for the third place match. So out of four dudes in every category,

they're gonna take 10 guys and test them. And, you know what I mean? It's like they know when they're gonna get tested. It's unbelievably easy for them to cheat that process. It's expensive. Although, a couple of people have gotten caught, which is bewildering to me, that they were able to get caught.

Well, maybe that means that there's that much of it, because when there's that much of it, guys get lazy and are like, whatever, right? Cause it's like, oh, everybody's doing it, who gives a fuck, I'm not even paying attention. And I can't even really complain about it, because in a sport where it's not really legal, like, but you know, far be it for me to like say,

like, you shouldn't be doing this. Whatever, if you want, that's the way you wanna get your competitive edge, go for it. It's just not what I wanna focus my efforts on, and honestly, I don't know enough about it to do it safely. So, you could really screw yourself up, taking testosterone or growth,

or whatever the case may be, if you don't know what you're doing. So, I mean, I don't have the money, or the know-how to get that kind of stuff done in a safe manner where I'm not gonna like die. So. And you do see, especially in some countries

where it's much more accepted. Like in Brazil, it's generally more accepted to do plastic surgery, take antibiotics, steroids, inject yourself with, you know, synthol and all these oils to look a certain way. And you see some of these, these grapplers and you're like, wow, you're either, you're either the most genetically gifted person I've ever seen in my life or you're on some steroids. Yeah, yeah, definitely, man. I mean, definitely, it's like a, I don't believe it's, I don't, I, I, far be it for me to say

the laws of Brazil. I don't, you know, I've only, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, there's not Americans in the sport using steroids, because there definitely is. And many of the ones that chose to do it, you find able to match the skill and abilities of those, you know, same Brazilian guys that we're taking steroids for the longest time. So, yeah, it's rampant. So, Gary, when you stand across a guy and you know, or possibly know already, like this guy is taking shit, whether it looks like it and you know, or possibly know already, like this guy is taking shit with it. It looks like it or you know, is there an extra bit of competitiveness that comes out of you like,

you want that, because being a natural guy, being the bad ass that you are, do you feel like I'm gonna step it up a little bit? Right, do you want to whoop is ass more because of that? Do you feel that? Not really, man, you know, it's like, I just, I'm trying to take on like the most difficult challenges that I can and not doing the same things that those guys are doing.

You could say puts me at a disadvantage or whatever the case may be, but that's another part of the challenge. It just makes it more difficult for me. It makes me have to work harder to find more technical ways to get around and these guys strengths and things. It's just more exciting to me. I don't get like angry about it. I'm not pissed that the guy across from me

takes steroids or anything like that. Because again, really, it's not illegal in my sport. So I can't really make too much of an argument for it. If I could argue anything, I would have to argue for it. We should make it illegal or whatever. But yeah, I'm not really too interested in that. But yeah, it's just another way for me to test myself. And I just get super excited to face somebody

like super dangerous or super powerful and try to be able to overcome that. Because again, that's what I fell in love with with Jiu-Jitsu in general. That's a great attitude. And one of the things about Jiu-Jitsu that's interesting is it is a full contact competitive sport. So you're not holding or pulling anything back.

And it's one of the few full contact sports where competitions will have an open weight division. Like you don't see that in boxing or in your kickboxing. Not too often. And what that does tell me, because we are talking about how much of a role strength plays and strength plays a role in any sport. But jujitsu technique is still the primary driver.

Whereas, let's say you're a boxer and you're 110 pound boxer and you go against, and you're really, really good, and you go against someone that you're way better than, you're way better than, but he's 200 pounds, he's probably gonna, he might kill you. But in Jiu Jitsu, you got a good chance. I remember watching some of the older,

absolute tournaments and you had like Marcello Garcia just blowing through some of these massive guys or, you know, what's his name? Huyler Gracie doing so, you know, so well, or Eddie Bravo, these are all small dudes that were beating like guys that were a lot bigger than them. Yeah, and along with that too, you have to take into account the fact that our sport,

like although you could get certainly severely injured by a submission hold, to some degree is a little bit safer than some of those other sports in the sense, like you're not taking cumulative damage to your brain or anything like that. So it's like, if I do get caught by one of these giants, like sure, could he snap my leg in half in an instant? It may happen, but there's a chance for like serious cumulative injuries to develop because I'm going against

These bigger guys like do I have tons of injuries from like training and competing against these guys for sure But like it's not the same as boxing, you know I'm not gonna get knocked out or anything more than likely I wasn't asked because because I have been outside of that world for God, at least eight years. And more recently I started kind of going on YouTube and watching videos. Within an eight year period, the sport has completely changed.

Yeah. I mean, it has evolved so massively. At one point you had guys doing these, you know, like, I think I'm pronouncing it right, brim below. It's close enough. I wish I could tell you the actual pronunciation. And now it looks like the leg lock game. It's just this huge

thing. That's pretty awesome about your G2 that it evolves so rapidly. What do you think is the future evolution of evolution? Because right now it's leg locks. Like everybody's just getting crazy with them. Do you think that's because at first people have to kind of learn how to defend them real well? And then once that starts happening, they're going to find the next thing? Yeah, do you do? Good question. I mean, yeah, I think what it was is that there was just a lot of stigma against them for a long time. Why do you think that is? The reason being is because it is a submission hold that you can access very quickly from an early point in a match, and it's a great equalizer. So you could take somebody who technically might

seem much superior or even bigger, stronger, whatever the case may be, and you might be able to submit them in a very short, quick period of time by establishing some sort of leg lock position, especially if they weren't unbelievably knowledgeable about it. It's a little different than some of the other submissions in the sport, because it's so easy to access, especially from a position where somebody's laying

on their back, like their two legs are there all the time. You don't have to pass the guard to get it. You don't have to get past the guy's legs or anything like that, get to the guy's back to secure the submission hold. So I think for the longest time, people saw it as like this cheap move that you could do. Like, oh, yeah, like, well, whatever, I got leg lock, you know,

but he doesn't even know how to pass my guard and miss that and other thing. They didn't see it as being technically superior. They're just like, yeah, it's a cheap one-off movement that these guys guide, but there's a lot more to it than that, you know, and when you start to learn about it, it's not like that at all. So I think that was the biggest problem with it,

was that, was just that. Now moving forward,, do you see anything any trends that you think may, in terms of maybe new positions or kind of a future of evolution? Where do you see it going? What I really like to see, and I don't know if this is necessarily going to happen because of the rules of the sport, What I would like to see is greater innovations along the lines of wrestling and judo. Oh, yeah.

Being brought into the sport. It's difficult because a lot of the mainstream competitions just with the rule sets that they give, there's not an unbelievable incentive to be very proficient in wrestling and judo. You can get away with not knowing a single wrestling or move or judo throw and have no problem, you know, necessarily submitting somebody.

There's plenty of guys that had no stand-up ability and did really successful. Yeah, so I think that with the new aspect of professional Jiu-Jitsu becoming like this big thing where you have to be an entertainer as well as as well as a good competitor. I think you'll see a little bit more of that because it is a little bit more exciting to go feet to floor, feet to floor, and constantly be doing wrestling, jujitsu, whatever the case can be.

Somebody doesn't really want to watch somebody just kind of lay on their back and kick somebody in the stomach for 10 minutes. When I'm thinking about my matches, that's actually something that goes into my head. Like, you know, obviously winning is number one, but sometimes in the course of a match, if I'm like, oh man, nothing's really happening here. Like, I'll just stand back up or do something to try to make action happen, you know. Because it's more exciting for the fans.

Yeah, you've got a good, you've got some good throws and takedowns. Let's talk about your history in training. How did you start and what brought you to where you're at now with your training? Oh yeah. So I started when, I guess with grappling in general, with wrestling.

I don't remember exactly what age it was. I want to say something around like 10 years old or something like fifth grade. And I started doing it recreationally. And I did it for like fifth grade. And I started doing it recreationally. And I did it for like five years. And I stopped doing it around freshman year because I started doing jiu-jitsu. And my main issue was I got to a certain point with wrestling and you learn some moves and things.

But it didn't feel to me at least the coaching that I was receiving very often was unbelievably cognitive. Right? Like, all right, you learn to move, a double leg, a single leg, whatever the case may be, but the technique wasn't the thing that they favored. Like, you learn to the move, and then the practice was centered on,

let's do this move as hard and as fast as we can for as many reps as we can, and we're gonna do that until you throw up, or, you know, you die on the mats. Like, that's what the goal was, was, is if you push harder and faster, you get a greater result. And I'm a hard worker, I did love pushing myself and all that stuff, it's great.

But I felt like there's a plateau that I eventually reached because of that. Nobody was sitting down and breaking down a technique. All right, well here's how we get it a little bit sharper, a little bit sharper, a little bit sharper. And, you know, without the use of strength, like, here's, you know, here's some things that you can do that are, like, technically body position wise, it's going to make this stronger.

And when I got to Gijitsu, it seemed like that was much more the focus, as opposed, like, you take your average wrestling practice, like I said, you drill a double leg, and you, like I said, you drill it 100 times fast, you can, the coach is screaming in your face and this is that new thing. Then you take the average jitsu practice, much less intense, much less physically demanding, but you take a move like, you know, I don't know a guillotine or something and you're going to start drilling it with your training partner nice and easy. The slightest amount of strength, the lowest amount, the most efficient you can possibly be is what your goal is.

You're drilling to maximize your efficiency, not to maximize your strength, your power, whatever the case may be. And the coach would come around the room and maybe give you some technical advice. You put your elbow here, you put your arm here, do this, focus on this. And that was what attracted me to Jiu-Jitsu as opposed to wrestling, at least the way that I was learning it. There are other nations, like many Eastern European countries and things like that, that take that kind of approach to wrestling, I think,

but in America and with the coaching that I was receiving, I didn't see that as much. Now that being said, great explanation. You do see something that I've noticed is wrestlers, high-level wrestlers and high-level judo guys that then go into Dujutsu, they tend to take some of that intensity and that scramble and then they apply to judo judo and they're like, and then they go MMA or whatever and they're fucking, they're hard to beat man because they've got

kind of both, both ends and then on the flip side I've seen judo judo guys go into wrestling and judo and have to learn all the sudden how to be a I mean is that accurate? There's definitely that element of intensity. I'm glad that I've crossed different boundaries into different grappling martial arts to feel that and to know what that's like because, yeah, it's 100% a different world.

And coming from a Jiu-Jitsu world and then going into mixed martial arts or wrestling or Judo or whatever the case would be, it's just like, it is a completely different intensity. What's required of you and your ability to rest or stay stagnant or stall or whatever the case and be is completely diminished. I mean, now you try to stall in any way, you're getting punched in the face and wrestling you're heavily penalized for stalling.

There's no, you can't be inactive. That pushed pace has to, you have to be there, you won't be successful. The same thing in judo. And the match can end in judo in an instant. Everything has to be sharp on point. All the grappling only takes place in 30 seconds. So everything has to be done extremely quickly and efficiently.

So it's certainly a different feel in all of those different martial arts. And it's something that I think, you need a little cross-training to be able to be successful at those things. Do you think it's better to start, like if you have a kid and you wanna get them in the grappling arts, do you think it's better

to start them? I know what my opinion is, but I wanna know what yours is. I'm sure. It's just to someone as accomplished as you are. Do you think it's better to start a kid in wrestling in judo and then have them do juditsu or the other way around? Good question. I think number one, you want your kid to end him in,

this is just a opinion again, you know, not based on any facts or science, but I think number one, you would want your kid to learn how to move his body. And not, I wouldn't even, we worried about grappling, I'd be putting my kid in gymnastics, you know. I'd say, you know, let's give this guy some balance, coordination, functional strength, and let's, let's give this guy some balance, coordination, functional strength, and let's have him figure out how to move his body around in space before

he's even worried about moving other people's bodies around. So that'd be my number one. Like, I always say that I won't force my kid to do anything except for gymnastics. And I wasn't even, I didn't even come from that background. I did two years of gymnastics and like seven to eight, maybe 13, 14, something like that. I didn't really come from that background, but I feel now looking back, like that would have made a huge difference. I mean, when you think about the range of motion

that you can get and the strength in all those different types of range of motions, and the true athleticism that you get from that sport, any sport you do, any sport your child decides to do after that, it's gonna be easier. All right, and you're gonna have more possibilities of things that you can do with your body when you go to do that sport. So honestly, that'd be my number one, but then as far as like what grappling martial art to put them in, that's a good question, man. I, I don't know, I'd see what they gravitate towards.

You know, I don't know if I'd, I don't know if I'd necessarily push one direction or another because I think one of the biggest things, the most valuable things is to just have somebody motivated to do something. If you're motivated to do something, you're gonna get way more out of it than if you're not. It's like when somebody chooses a cardio activity, does it really matter yet?

Do you burn a few more calories running on a treadmill than you do if you're jumping rope, probably, you know. But if I can jump rope for an hour and I can stay happy and motivated to do that, but I can't, like, I hate jogging and like, you know, after 30 minutes, I want to quit and this is bullshit, I'm probably going to be able to, you know, do that longer and I'm going to be more motivated to do it. So that's what I would say. Yeah, that's an excellent point.

It's crazy. He brought up the gymnastics, right? After we just really had Mike Selemian here, who's a master Kettlebell sport, ex power lifter, ex Olympic lifter, and he attributes much. Yeah, he started with gymnastics and really like was talking about that kind of strength and body awareness he learned.

Oh, yeah, that's what the points you made are so, so true. And we were, we discussed it after he came off the show just like how important and gymnastics can be in somebody's role, especially at a young age when you know, they're, they're proprioception and body awareness is so all over the place. Then you're a muscular connection. I mean, that, that, that, that first thing

that you really want to establish is the connectivity, right? And the ability to move properly and adjust accordingly. So that makes a lot of sense. Well, of course, when you're a child, too, your brain is solidifying, creating and solidifying and removing all these connections in the brain at a much higher rate than when you're an adult. That's why kids learn so fast and the things they learn that tend to not forget. And body awareness, that kinesthetic movement

is something that is, that's what your brain is primed to do when you're a kid, same thing with language. You learn language very easily without an accent when you're a kid. One of the old school MMA fighters who some people said was probably the pioneer of modern MMA. One of the first guys that kind of show proficiency and striking and grappling and submissions was Frank Shamrock and Frank Shamrock was huge on gymnastics.

You used to talk about this all the time back. Yeah. Yeah. He talked about this quite a bit. Have you done any cross training other grappling arts, like Sombo or other types of wrestling with them like that? Yeah, mostly just wrestling in judo. I'm not as heavy in judo.

I try to practice it when I can, but just only because I tend to focus without the gui. One day I actually do wanna play around with competing in the gui and stuff, probably when I get a little older. But because my focus is our shifted towards no gui competition and eventually MMA, I haven't done it as much. But I certainly think cross-trading in that realm as well as wrestling has helped me a lot. I've been working for like about three years now with my coach Matt Pledgehr.

I was a D1 wrestler for Rudkurs. And I attribute a lot of progress that I've made in wrestling to him, as well as my coach, Sean Danerho, who does quite a bit of research in that realm, who's never a high level wrestler or anything like that, but certainly influences me to kind of go off in that direction and learn more about the other. Any thoughts on heading towards MMA? Yeah, absolutely. As far as exactly where we're going to go with it,, not 100% sure as to when and where and what organization and this, that and the other thing.

So far, the most recent development for me is I've been trying to pick fights with some of these guys that already do Gijitsu and are looking to get into MMA. AJ Agasarm, who I hate. I, you know, love the punch him in the face. Yes. I try, I'm trying to get a fight going with him. Why you hate him? I

There's a lot of reasons We can divulge in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll completely derail me I'll finish this thought and then we'll talk about it And then Dylan Dennis who was kind of a rival for a while. He's interested in doing going to MMA So isn't that McGregor's code? Yeah, yeah, so I'd you know, I love a fight there and then going to MMA. So isn't that McGregor's code? Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, I love a fight there. And then, um, Cron who actually has a few MMA fights now, um, but we had a really tough match in ADCC. That was when I first started.

With that back, that was a couple of years ago, right? Yeah, it was 2000, 30. That's an arm bar video that I showed you, that we looked at, right? Oh, yeah, it was. It was nasty. Yeah, so how is he as a, uh, as a competitor, when you watch him, his jiu jitsu looks so straight forward so nothing like revolution whatever

But the fucker like he seems to be so good at what he does Because of a style sure Well, how you know, how was that like going against him? And is he is he different? I mean is there because there's a lot of you know mystique around his dad right he's a Gracie and Back then I was just so much more of an immature competitor I mean I'd still been doing the sport for about six and a half years but I think I've just

changed so much but yeah back then it was a little overwhelming he's definitely the highest level person I probably competed against at the time so I mean that was I was running into the pinnacle of my weight class essentially with that I mean he won 80 CC that year so obviously I was running into the pinnacle of my weight class at a very early point in my career and Which was probably awesome for you. Yeah, absolutely. So it was a very surreal experience. There was a lot of things going on mentally and physically So yeah, it was definitely different, but now having the background that I have now competing against a bunch of other high-level guys You know, I don't see anything

Unbelievably different from him that I see from many of these other high-level competitors that I compete against all the time. So, you know, I feel much more, I feel like I'm coming from much more of a point of experience now if I were to have a rematch with him or anything like. Do you know the, what was the age difference? Do you know the age difference of the two? Don't know the age difference. I mean, I'm guessing we're pretty close in age. I just know, I mean, he's probably been doing Jiu-Jitsu a lot longer. Since he was born, I'm sure. He's a Hicks and Gracie son. Yeah, Hicks and like he was like, he came out in a guise, right?

He's like a legendary Gracie family. People say it's like the best. Sure, sure. Whatever. But shit, I don't know. That's actually true or not. But back to AJ. I don't know why we don't like,

why are we gonna whoop his ass? There's been multiple things that have gone on in the past. I mean, he's been a guy that was in my way class for a long time and just kind of like, carries himself in a particular way, chest puffed out like, very, like just the kind of person you look at, and he's just like, oh my god,

I'm gonna have to deal with this guy. In any situation, the guy you look at and you instantly judge, you know? But then to me, like as I met him as a person, I found out that that image is just true. That's just him. Sometimes you read a judge, a bush by its cover, and it was fucking right.

It says math textbook. Yep, it's a math textbook. That's just the fact. And then, I don't know, it does like a bunch of corny social media stuff, but it is what it is. And then he comes into our gym and trains with us because he had some loose connections with Hanzo and stuff.

And it's just, you never really given anything to us and we've given stuff to him. And it just takes, takes, takes from the people around in my field like, and it's, he went right before Gordon's last EBI, he fucking spazs out of a move like an idiot, need him right in the eye, cause blood. I had to fill in for him, thankfully,

I filled in and won the tournament, but it could potentially have cost Gordon $20,000. You know what I mean? For some stupid shit like that. And for nothing, it wasn't a training accident, like, oh, I just made a mistake. It's like, dude, you were caught and you spazed and need him in the face.

Like there's just no reason for it. So I just had lots of bad experiences with a guy over the years and, you know, that seems like there's like an unsaid code right there, right? Like that, he kind of breaks. Like, if you know, when you know, you know the situation, like you guys know what's going on, what's at risk here,

you get caught. It's like the man thing to do is to tap out and just own it that you can do. There's been tons, sorry to interrupt you. No, no, no. There's been tons, obviously, very emotionally charged about this stuff, but there's been times where like he was preparing for a competition came to us and you know, he's not the kind of guy, he doesn't like to tap. I've had him in fully locked submission holds and other training partners and I chose

not to fucking break him because I'm like, you know what? I hate this guy, he's a douche, but he's got a competition in three days. I'm not gonna break his shoulder or his leg. Or raise his hand. Right, that's that man code right there, right? It's just like, you know what? Whatever, he's got to prepare for something.

I respect that. I'm not gonna be that guy, you know? And but he wouldn't be the same way. You know, he's not a mutual respect situation. Yeah, so. So I could see how we wouldn't like this guy. So explain that a little bit like, I don't fully understand like how the team part of this works. Like you made a comment about how that could have screwed Gordon over and you were able to step in and do the thing. Take his

visit. Explain how the whole team thing works. Well, we have a, as far as our like professional competition team is concerned, it's extremely small. We have Eddie Cummings, who is around, you know, he can compete. He competed most recently at 135 pounds. That's about as low as he'll be able to compete. That's like a day of weigh-in. I can probably, I would be able to make it, I think, to like 145, but I just don't do it because Eddie does that category. He's smaller.

But I probably would probably would be in like the 145, 155 categories, but instead I end up in the 155, 2070 range because again, I'm Eddie's taking the lower weight categories and then Gordon, who's a little bit taller, but honestly, not that much than me. Maybe like 20 pounds or so. He ends up taking He ends up taking anything over 170 and beyond. So like, you know, he was that EBI was supposed to be like, I don't know, 205 They do it by UFC weight classes. So he had 185 and that was supposed to be 205 So our team we don't even have a heavyweight, really, even though Gordon does the heavyweight stuff. Our team is extremely small when it comes to that kind of stuff.

So me filling in for Gordon, sorry. Me filling in for Gordon in that instance was like, I mean, it's a 205, I should have no business being in that tournament. So my cousin is like a diehard, he's a total fanboy of you. And when I had told him that we were both sponsored by Chi-Mar and eventually I would get you over on the show. And we'd obviously been trying to connect with you for some time where I know how busy you are. And you know, he told me to ask you about that whole team situation and what is your future on the team?

And is there is that because of that puts you in kind of a weird predicament? Is that not allow you to do certain fights or be right in your ideal weight class? Is it something you're considering leaving? No, no, no. It's certainly a difficult situation because like you said, we don't have all the weight categories covered, so it puts a many of us against like much bigger, stronger opponents most of the time. And you know, I'm not competing at my true weight. So normally the guys that would be more around my size, I don't end up competing against. So it's a little bit in the same thing for Gordon. He's he's covering away class. He would normally do the 170 probably or even 155.

He can cut to. So yeah, which is an tough situation too. But ultimately what's the most difficult is like when we we get injured, sick, whatever the case may be, it's hard. We don't have a huge professional competition team to kind of fill those gaps. If two of us get sick injured, it's like now, imagine me and Gordon are fucked up

and then there's Eddie and it's like a 210 EBI. It's like, I mean, he's tough and he can submit a lot of really big, you know, tough dudes, but, you know, that's put in, put our team at a severe disadvantage. Whereas some of these other bigger networks have like huge numbers of professional competitors that are able to pull from, you know, one of our, you know, one of our main competitors, well, two of them, I guess like, you know, Gracie Baja or like 10 Planet, like these, they got huge networks of schools and it's like, you know, I feel like I guess like you know Gracie Baja or like 10 planet like these they got huge networks of schools And it's like you know, I feel like every time you know we defeat one guy

They're just like oh, yeah, here's the next leg lock master whatever the case may be and they just pull somebody out of nowhere And you know, we just don't even have that ability You know, so is that because the you guys this team has not been along a bit around for very long Are you guys trying to grow that what's the future of that look like? I think the future of that is there's going to be growth. We'll see what we're going to do and what we're going to try to accomplish. But yeah, I think we'll attempt to grow.

I mean, we already are attempting to grow the team. We have some more B-level professional competitors that are coming up through the ranks that are doing pretty well. And they'll be able to kind of fill the spots in the cracks when we're hurt, injured, et cetera, or busy doing other things, or maybe when we switched to MMA.

So we're working on it, but it's a process, for sure. It takes a long time. Who are some of the best people that you feel you've gone against, where you've gone against them? And afterwards you're like, man, that dude is legit. Like I actually learned some shit, or that person kind of blew me away. I'm sure that's how I felt.

Train with or compete with? Either. Either? Yeah. Well, I mean, my most recent fucking competition I got flying triangles. So that dude was pretty good. So, I mean, he, you know, it's tough because it happens in an instant, but nonetheless, you know, I don't make any excuses for that.

I mean, it's, you know, a great technique. I, I, I practice flying triangles myself. So, I mean, it's great technique. I practice flying triangles myself. So it was great to see that. And he was exceptionally good Antonio Carlos Jr. fights in the UFC at 1-85. I didn't really obviously get to see a full range of his jitsu, but he's beaten like some really tough dudes like multiple times.

It's not just like an accident. Like he beat La Andre Lo twice, once by the same submission, flying triangle. He beats Hamil Abahal twice by points, Bernard Opharia, who's like another huge dude who's really really good, he submitted him once, beating him once by points. So he's been, he kind of flew into the radar though, I'm guessing when he beat those guys, it was like, he may have not won the championship, but he beat them in like the preliminary rounds

or something and then maybe lost a match by points to somebody else. So it was hard back then. It wasn't like a huge professional thing, like I said. So you could easily fall through the cracks like that. If you didn't make it to the top level of the championship, even a dude who was super dangerous and super good like that, nobody really knew a lot about him. And the Jiu-Jitsu world people didn't know as much about him.

He was pretty famous in MMA, because he won the tough Brazil, but in Jiu-Jitsu world people didn't know as much about him. He was pretty famous in MMA because he won the tough Brazil, but in Jiu-Jitsu not so much. But he was really good trying to think as far as like people I train with that really bring something to the table. Probably what surprises me most is when I train with people from other grappling arts, like Travis Stevens who got silver in judo this year at 81 kilograms

or gets technically it's last year. In the Olympics, when I train with him, it's really interesting because, like I said, it's kind of a different feel and it's definitely a challenge. It's not to say that there's not times where he submits me or puts me in some really bad spots. So that's always interesting to see. There's some D1 wrestlers that I work with that I feel the same intensity from. And I'm trying to think from the GJ2 world, anybody coming down to visit us that like really.

You ever roll with any of some of the old school legends, like Hanzo? And you know, I've rolled with Hanzo one time. It wasn't like a super intense thing. We were just kind of like flow rolling when he was preparing for Sakuraba, just a grappling match. And it was cool to feel, but it's hard to say. Like we didn't have like a, like, budding heads or anything like that. But yeah, I mean, he's definitely extremely good. I mean, a Hanzo's been, you know, I don't always get to see him around because he's a very

busy guy. He does his own thing. But, you know, all the times that I have been around in my, I typically learn something new. And so it's kind of cool to have him around for sure. You said something it was cool to feel. Like, do you, when you first lock up with somebody, is there, is there a moment where you like instantly can tell like what the fight's gonna be like, because the way he grabs you or this? There's certain things that you can tell the moment. You touch someone, you get a general sense for their level of

anxiety overall and their confidence in themselves. Like, if I lock up with somebody and they're extremely anxious, tense, etc., it'll, you'll feel it immediately. You can feel a sense of nerves, the tenseness of the muscles, somebody who's much more confident in their abilities and much more smooth and less anxious, when you lock up with them, it's going to feel relaxed. You're not even going to really feel a sense of danger. Like they're obviously not feeling any danger or anxiety when you lock up with them and they're relaxed. You know, that's much more of an indicator to me of, all right, this guy is either planning something or he knows what he's doing. So there are certain things you can tell the moment you touch somebody.

There are other things where you wait a little bit deeper into a match and you're like, okay, now I get a feel for what techniques this guy uses or what kind of setups. That kind of thing takes a little bit more time. It's a feeling out process, maybe the first couple minutes of the match, but yeah, there's definitely certain thing

you can tell. Like opening moves and all that. It's a lot like chess from how you're describing it. You can probably tell sometimes by the way they're standing. I'm sure you could see a judo guy and a wrestler or someone who just is jittery, right? By just the way, they're kind of holding you. Sure, sure.

Sometimes you can tell that too. Yeah, you can get a general sense, like they're posture and their movement and things suggest certain things about them. There's all these observations that you should be making, you know, over time. And a big part of that is like pattern recognition, I think plays a huge role in the sport. It's one of the mental aspects of Jiu-Jitsu, I believe, that it kind of goes unnoticed sometimes. And it's involved in all combat martial arts. You know, when you look at boxing or something, yeah, you can learn a bunch of combinations.

But can you recognize the patterns that your opponent's gonna put before you? You know, if every single time he sets up his cross with, you know, two jabs, all right, well, now I, you know, now I'm not kind of know what to look out for. I can know where to move my head, I know where to position my body. Obviously, he'll make adjustments too.

But recognizing those patterns is super important. It was easier for me to relate to that to everybody through boxing, because everybody knows how to throw punches, basic punches. But the same thing happens in Jiu Jitsu, how is this guy gonna react to an underhook or an overhook or me moving my body in one direction or what setup he's gonna use, et cetera?

So is it more important then to get those types of people to train with as opposed to breaking down film and looking at all those signs and signals? It's all important. But yeah, when there's a bunch of things you consider, you want to look at the person's tape to get a sense for that. It's hard without physically ever training with the person to really get a true sense for how they are

and how they compete and what it's going to feel like. But nonetheless, yeah, there's definitely an element of, I want to bring a training partner in who may have similar patterns to this guy. It has a similar background. Maybe he's a tough wrestler or a tough judo guy. When I was preparing for Hector Lombard, I was trying to work with Gary St. Ledger, who's a great judo guy, and Travis Stevens, to just get a feel for the kind of things that those guys were going to do. Maybe his Jiu-Jitsu wasn't going to be exactly the same, but there's going to be certain

similarities, of course, based off of a similar background, et cetera. So that's an important thing to add to your training as well. Now, is this what you do full time? You don't have a job, aside from that, is it just Jiu-Jitsu? Is this how you make your living? No, I run a jujitsu school as well. But I mean, I suppose that's under the umbrella. But yeah, the majority of my income comes from my professional

jujitsu career, whether it be competing, whether it be sponsorships, whether it be seminars, or whatever the case. That's where the majority of my income comes from. How is that looking for the future of that business? It seems to be growing I mean it used to be you couldn't make a living at all. Yeah, unless you had a school It was really the only way to do it. Yeah, when I first started doing the Giu-Jitsu I've said this a couple times. I didn't even see

competing professionally as a real thing like if you would have told me five years ago like oh, yeah, you're gonna You know, you're gonna make the majority of your money just like competing, like literally just, you know, going out there and competing with guys. I'll be like, yeah, okay, whatever. And it wasn't real. So like, my whole intention when I first started Jiu-Jitsu, I wanted to compete to get better, to gain more skills, and all of that was in pursuit of being able to teach people better,

or having a better reputation for when I teach. Maybe if I got good enough, be able to teach seminars to people and make some money that way for sure. But for the most part was to just be a better teacher to my students. You know, that was the main goals competitively. And yeah, you wanted to win championships, you wanted to be the best, but as far as making a living off of it, it wasn't real. And now it is.

And I grew into that aspect. Like nowadays, people that are starting Jiu-Jitsu can see that and they can aspire to that. I didn't aspire to it. I adapted to it in a sense. I realize, oh shit, there's a chance to make money now in this. That's something I can branch my efforts into. I can start being a professional. How lucrative can it be? You know, it's nothing compared to, you know, most sports, mixed martial arts, or even combat sports in general. The paydays are come nothing to that, but it's certainly something that I, as a person

who doesn't have a family, you know, in a sense, like a wife, kids, etc. I can make it okay living off of, I can sustain myself, I can make and save money. So enough that I can, you know, support the lifestyle that I live. Is it enough really to, you know, isn't enough to like sustain a, you know, a family on it without owning a school and like teaching a lot of seminars and stuff?

Difficult, difficult, it's growing though. It takes a lot of dedication. Yeah, and where it is now is what it started with, is just a bunch of rich guys that are kind of interested in GJ2 dumping some money into it. And that's kind of how it started. And I was a little worried when it started kicking off, like, is this artificial?

Is this not real? Like, is this just, is this just gonna be temporary for the time being that these guys are wanna play with some toys and when they wanna take their money out of it, like, is it going to all disappear? But what I started to realize is some of these other organizations started popping up, like, Fight to Win, for instance, which is able to make revenue off of ticket sales now, to be honest, not even just the online stream.

So they've created a sustainable business model just purely off of throwing a show without crazy outside sponsorship, which is typically what used to happen. And it's still happening now. There's still a lot of lucrative business guys trying to dump money into the sport, and that's still a part of it. But I'm happy to see that there are some organizations that were able to make it, you know, per se. So that like if all this artificial money goes out the window, like there's still a realm of professional Getsu that could exist,

even without all this outside sponsorship money. That's awesome. I wanna change gears a little bit and talk a little bit about your training. What does it look like? How often do you train Getsu? Do you lift? What does your cardio look like?

Let's break that down a little bit for our audience. Sure, so the majority of my time as everybody knows that follows me is spent on training specifically for my sport. I mean, I think most people can say that about their sport, but I think me more so than maybe some other people who dedicate a lot more time to straining and conditioning or some sort

of lifting program or whatever the case may be. I certainly do do things on the side to help improve my athletic performance, but it's mostly body weight related, gymnastics related. We center our physical program as far as outside Juj-Jitsu on like several body movements. Handstands, bridging, toaster bar, muscle ups, front levers, back levers, like some gymnastic movements that are kind of core to what gymnasts believe as markers of physical fitness and things like that. And I got that from our coach, Sean, Danneher,

he kind of influenced us to go that route as far as physical fitness is concerned because it gives us the best balance of strength, coordination, balance, flexibility, range of motion, et cetera. That would be required to become more athletic in our sport, as opposed to just being able to bench press a little bit more weight. And at the end of the day, like with a lot of what I do and competing against these heavier guys, like sure, it might have helped me to be a little bit stronger,

just being able to push in a particular direction. But ultimately, I know that my push is gonna be nothing compared to Bushesha's push. Right? This dude's like, you know, 265 now, solid muscle. I mean, no matter how much I bench press, it's not gonna be able to combat that dude. You know, so I'd rather be able to learn how to move my body

around the mat. Ultimately, when I compete against a guy like that, I'm concerned with moving my body around his, not so much moving his body. Well, I was surprised, you know, I used to run a gym that was across the street from Aka, here in San Jose, and their fighters would come in a lot of times and work out. and I became friends with a few of them

Mike Swicken me became friends for a while He actually was a trainer worked for me for a while and I was always shocked at How not strong they were lifting weights, but then when I'd go train with them They were strong as fuck when they grab you it's a different type of strength. It's very difficult to when they grab you. It's incredible. It's a different type of strength. It's very difficult to communicate like these are guys that I would crush in the gym when we were friends. And I'm not just talking about technique like they would grab you and you would just feel like this guy is stronger than I am, but he's not. I know he's not. I could deadlift twice as much as him or I could squat twice as much. It's a very different kind of strength.

Very, very interesting. It's hard strength. Well, we talk about that. This central nervous system training. You know, that's what we all talk about. The gymnastics being the foundation. That's why maybe you maybe a gym, gymnast can't deadlift six, 700 pounds, but watch him do an iron cross or muscle up for 50 reps. That's a whole nother fucking strength. Well, dude, I think it was John Jones. They posted a video not that long ago, and it was like this big deal.

He deadlifted 400 pounds. A 400 pound deadlift is decent for a guy his size. It's not that impressive at all in a gym. But I guarantee you, if you go grab him, you're just gonna grab his feelings and I feel like you're grabbing a wall. It's just a different type of strength. It's always fascinating to me.

It's very, very interesting. How about nutrition? Do you have any particular philosophies when it comes to nutrition? I know some guys, you know, Paleo, or you have some vegans now in MMA, which is kind of interesting. Interesting question. So I tend to get a lot of flack for this. Okay. I tend to veer off the side of not, not respecting the nutritional aspects of my daily routine, I suppose, as much as some people might like to put as much emphasis on it. I'm not like a huge believer in me restructuring my diet as creating an overwhelming advantage as far as athletic performance is concerned.

Obviously, the foods that you intake and the supplements that you take and things like that certainly influence how you recover and certainly influence your performance in different ways. I'll tell you about the things that I do do, but overall, I think I have pretty shit nutrition. I eat whatever I want, hamburgers, all the time and stuff. A big part of that is I'm just training all day. And honestly, when I go to eat, I only get to eat two real meals a day, maybe only one.

And when I do, it needs to be a huge number of calories. And it's tough to get that from eating a giant salad. I mean, number one, just putting it together would be- Plus you look like a total pussy. Yeah, it's like dude, it would be such an effort to get that kind of calorie intake from much healthier foods.

It's so much easier to just kind of eat a cheeseburger and french fries at the end of the day. So as much as that might not be the best thing for me, it's certainly not where I place my emphasis on, you know, how am I going to get my competitive edge? It's not where I usually go to. As far as like supplements and stuff are concerned, you know, I am sponsored by muscle farm. I do, you know, I believe in taking protein right before I go to bed. I found actually our instructor, John, has told us that there was a study done.

I don't remember what country did it, but it was like a very non-biased, like not, you know how like a lot of things are kind of sponsored by different companies and things like that. There, it was sponsored by the government. So it wasn't like a biased study where maybe a nutrition company was trying

to back it or whatever the case may be. And they found that taking protein, way protein before you fell asleep, like right before bed, was actually one of the best ways to build muscle overall. I think the study showed like it was either like an 8% increase over some amount of time or something, or maybe some significant difference as opposed to some of the other times where you could be taking protein in that a lot of people emphasize perhaps after a workout or whatever the case may be, which there's obviously science to back that kind of stuff up too. Yeah, I think a lot of it depends on your nutrition too.

If you're not getting enough, if you only need one or two times a day and you're training a shit ton during the day, if you're burning 6, shit to under in the day, you know, if you're burning, you know, six, seven thousand calories a day, it probably behooves you to take something before you go to bed. It's with that kind of damage, with that kind of, sure, you know, caloric burn. With that all being said, what are your staple meals, Dan? I know you say, yeah, but I'm sure there's certain foods

you just freaking love. You said cheeseburger and fried. Cheeseburger is definitely like a huge one. Cajunly pizza, I like, I really like sausage egg and cheese sandwiches in the morning, that's definitely huge for me. Depends, some days I don't get a chance to eat them, but that's definitely big.

I love eating, so the healthiest thing I'll eat in a day is I eat a ton of sushi sometimes. So that's probably the healthiest meal you'll see me eating, but yeah, there's that. And then other than that nutrition wise, to ton of sushi sometimes. So that's probably like the Caltheos meal you'll see me eating. But yeah, there's that. And then other than that nutrition wise, it's not really like a nutrient per se, but I'm a huge like caffeine user. Like if any. Yeah, you just smashed that cup of cold brew that we just gave you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, chimera is an amazing coffee, but as well as getting the coffee in me, I also energy

drinks and stuff like that all day. I'm 80, I have ADHD, and I have struggled with it for a lot of my life, and nowadays I don't take medicine for it or anything like that. But caffeine has similar effects to the stimulants that you would, it's a stimulant. So similar to the stimulants that you would take to, you know, kind of correct or, you know, help with ADHD. So I find myself kind of like self-medicating myself with caffeine throughout the day, just to keep myself a little bit mentally sharper, whether it be for training, whether

it be for, you know, getting some business activity done. I got to be careful though, because I do have like some insomnia issues. So I try to like cut it off by like four or five PM, or I'm screwed, and I won't be able to go to sleep till three. Do you think your ADHD helps you or hurts you in? It's a good question. You know, I've always wondered that myself.

Cause I have a theory on that, but I wanna hear what you have to say. I've always wondered that myself. What I lean towards when I think about it is I believe, especially based off the style that I have and the way that I'm constantly trying to attack for submissions and going from position to position and people like look at my Jiu-Jitsu

as a very exciting style. Yeah, because your Jiu-Jitsu is ADHD. When you watch your, exactly. When you watch some of your videos, I'm like, fuck this guy doesn't stop. Like he's constantly moving, you know? It's very much suits me in that way.

I think it does make me a little bit more exciting because I'm extremely impulsive. I think about something and I do it. So I think the ADHD has helped me in that aspect where maybe somebody might be, oh, I'm gonna think about the consequences of doing it. I just do. Do.

And then whatever the result is, good or bad. It's good to do it out. I do something else. I'm just gonna do, go, go, go, huh? Do, and then whatever the result is, good or bad, I do something else. You know, like I'm just gonna do, go, go, go, go, go, as opposed to, you know, certainly there's times where I'm thinking on plans and stuff like that throughout the match when there's like, you know, periods of inactivity,

but yeah, a lot of things are action-reaction based for me in my training and in my Gigiitsu. I think it makes me a little bit more creative sometimes because I'm willing to just go and do as opposed to just think, think, think. I think it does make me a better fighter. I think there's many things in my life I struggle with because of it, but I think that for Giu-Jitsu, as far as making me exciting, as far as my style, it definitely helps a lot. Actually, I struggled with a lot when I first started doing Giu-Jitsu with this whole professional thing, just didn't exist. Like I said, with mainstream competition, there's points and all this stuff. The main theory most people

operate on is, you know, there's two ways to win, right? You can center your Giu-Jitsu around scoring points or you can center your Giu-Jitsu around submissions or you can try to find some mesh of both. But those are the only two ways to win in traditional competition, right? So most of people's mainline strategies were to find ways to win via points because it's certainly much easier to do, okay? Not necessarily. In some ways, yes, some ways, no. But scoring two points is certainly easier than submitting something, for sure.

So- And the matches tend to look slow. Yeah. You get their position, they hold the position very safe and your style is very, uh, I mean, it's very exciting. Definitely. You're moving all the fucking time. It's very catch-wrestling. It's got that the catch-wrestling attitude, which was like submit, submit, submit, submit, move, move. It's like, constantly in danger, which, uh, for professional sport, I, it's better. Because I know there's a lot of complaining

about some of the boring aspects that you just see. Yeah, yeah. I think when I started coming up, they were always trying to influence me like, all right, will you pass the guard? Just like, relax Gary, like, hold the guy, like, see what's gonna happen. You're up on points, like, don't,

you don't need to do anything else right now. But my mind just literally doesn't work like that. Like, I can't just sit there and wait. Like I need to progress to the next point and to the next point and to the next point. So even at an early stage in my career, before people were even influencing me to hunt submission holds, etc. I was always hunting for that endpoint because I needed somewhere to go next. Like just holding somebody in a position wasn't good enough for me.

And I got flocked from coaching for years and years because of it. Man, just, you know, you're up, just hold them, you know, just do your thing, you're gonna win the match and I just couldn't. I'd had to keep going like, all right, well now I gotta move to the guys back. Now I gotta show them already, he's out of that.

Now I gotta, I'm taking, you know, I'm gonna go for this submission hold. Like, I just couldn't convince myself to sit still. Yeah, common misconception about ADD and ADHD is that they that people have a complete lack of an ability to focus, but the reality is hyper focus. ADD and ADHD, if they're into something, they hyper focus. We've talked on recent episodes about flow state. And you'll find when you work with kids, because I've worked with quite a few of kids

with ADD and ADHD, if you can get them into something, you could fire a fucking cannon off next to them, and they won't even know, because they're so focused on what they're doing, and if you learn how to harness that ability, or you follow your passion, you find people with ADD and ADHD who become extremely proficient about something, whatever they're totally into.

Yeah. And it works well for certain careers. Like salespeople and entrepreneurs, a disproportionate percentage of entrepreneurs and salespeople who are successful tend to have ADD and ADHD. Yeah. So, I mean, I, you said it helps you. I would have 100% guessed that it helps you, especially watching your brand of Jiu-Jitsu and the way you fight. So it's pretty interesting.

Gary, I always like to ask elite level athletes like yourself, how do you balance like everything else out? Like social life. I don't. I'm awful. I know, no, and I love family hates me, my friends. I love for you guys to share that because I think sometimes people get a perception of like these elite athletes

and they just think, oh, you know, they don't realize how much sacrifice you probably really make. Could you share that a little bit? Like what that's like for you? I'll do my best. I mean, the true answer is I really am awful at it. Like, you know, there's many times where my family's trying to get in touch with me and I'm not responding

and that's a disaster or, you know, a girl wants to talk to me and I can't, I'm not communicating fast enough for her to, you know, you just don't care. You won't talk to me, you won't return my text. I'm like, dude, like I saw that shit while I was driving home and then as soon as I got to where my destination, I had to go teach or I had to go train.

It's just like it's not, it's not, I'm not, yeah, I guess it's teach or I had to go train. It's just like it's not, it's not, I'm not, yeah, I guess it's interesting because I think at some point as a professional, if you're gonna choose to try to be the highest level at whatever you do, you are selfish to a degree. Like you have to be. There's just no question about it.

You can't put the need, you can't put like the needs of all these people necessarily in front of your needs as a professional because you're trying to be elite. So everything you do essentially has to be in the pursuit of being the best at your given craft, right? So it puts you in this position where you kind of have to be selfish.

It's like, yeah, I love my family and everything like that. And if something terrible happens, like I'm there, don't get me wrong. And the same thing with my friends, I'm definitely the person you can call at 3am and I'm going to show up. But at the end of the day, when it comes to the little things here and there, making a phone call or text message, just that and the other thing, it all falls to the wayside. And a lot of relationships get ruined because of that.

So as far as that concern, I don't manage that stuff very well. It's very difficult for me. And you talked about that tunnel vision before. That's exactly it. I have this tunnel vision on what I'm trying to accomplish. And it's a lot of stuff. A lot of white noise on the outside, false to the way side.

Even sometimes stuff with my business. I run a jujitsu school and I've been so hyper focused on my professional career that sometimes the little things with the business, I don't have insurance for my school right now. I haven't had it for three years. I've been being dogged by the guy that rents the building. Hopefully they don't hear this.

I doubt they would, but I'll open it up. You got to get insurance, whatever. I'm like, oh yeah, I have it. I just haven't given you that as a paperwork. Like, yeah. So like, I mean, little things like that that are huge. Like that's a big deal. That's a problem.

Like I could get sued in any moment. Yeah, again, probably shouldn't be saying this stuff. But I love Douglass. That's not your half the order. Stuff that literally just doesn't get done because I'm so hyper focused on whatever it is that I'm doing. In some ways, then again, like with the ADHD,

like, yeah, you have that hyper focus, but then I can switch from thing to thing so easily and just forget about all my other problems. And sometimes it's an issue, sometimes it's not. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of sacrifices that go into that. And I'm not gonna pretend like I'm not selfish, like I'm definitely selfish,

because I put priority number one as trying to be the best at what I do. And I don't know, maybe one day it'll change, or maybe I'll put more effort into certain relationships or put more effort into other things. We'll see how it goes. But yeah, there's a lot of sacrifices,

a lot of failed relationships, a lot of disruption, when it comes to like talking to my family and personal life and things like that. Obviously, sufferers, I've very few times, like am I really going out or enjoying myself too often? Many times, it's times like this where I'm actually traveling, getting ready to compete, that I ever even get an opportunity to do anything.

And then I gotta be careful because it's like, I have a competition coming up. Like do I wanna be going out to the bars in the middle of the night, like, right before I'm gonna go compete again somebody. You know, you got to weigh, you know, your things that you want to enjoy life, but you also want to win. And you know, my instructor, Tom the Blas,

my original instructor always told me, he sat somebody down one time and he was doing cross country, right, but he was exceptional at Jiu-Jitsu. Like, he had just a knack for it, like a very good ability. And the kid, he was like, yeah, I've enjoyed it or whatever. I won't be able to do Jiu-Jitsu for the next six months or so because I got to run and prepare for the sport. And he's like, so, Tom's like, you see a future in that.

Like, do you, is it something that you want to do professionally? Is it something that you think you're going to be successful with whatever the case would be? He's like, no, it's just fun for me. I just enjoy it, whatever the case would be. And he said something interesting. And I don't think it resonated with a kid because I don't even think he trains anymore.

But he's like, you know what's fun for me? Winning. Like being the best. He's like, I see in your future, you could be the best at this. I don't know if you see that you're in your future that you're gonna be the best across country or if you even care,

but I'll tell you this right now, if you dedicate your time to it, you could be the best at this. And that's not what resonates with everybody, for sure. And that's okay, I don't look down on anybody that doesn't think that way, but that's definitely in my mind the way that's okay. You know, I don't, you know, look down on anybody that doesn't think that way, but that's definitely in my mind the way that I think. It's like the biggest thing in my head is like,

I wanna be successful, I wanna win, I wanna be the best. Like that's what is fun for me. Although all those other extra curricular activities, somebody's been, oh yeah, you know, he's not enjoying his life, but I am. I'm just enjoying it in a different way than you are, you know. People have, isn't it funny how people have a hard time with that though? Like because it's not enjoying his life, but I am. I'm just enjoying it in a different way than you are. People, isn't it funny how people have a hard time with that though?

Because it's not their way. It's like, yeah, it's so many people. And I think it's really common when you meet guys at your level that you guys have this inner drive to be the best like that. Is that something you think stems from childhood? Like how did you grow up? And yeah, I'm extremely competitive

That's for sure in everything that I do Gordon jokes all the time He every every little thing that like pops up whether it's like bowling this that you know the thing I've always like dip my my hand in so many different sports and so many different activities Like he's like have you done everything like he gets pissed off sometimes because like obviously we're very competitive at Jiu-Jitsu, but there's a a lot of I'm a little older than him He's my my main training partner and my main student and you know He gets frustrated sometimes when I'll like beat him at like some you know recreation activity or yeah exactly man, he's like fuck you know, you know, I don't do everything. He's just bullshit

Because I'm I was so hyper competitive and so every time I did one of those things like you know I tried to be very good at it and you know Maybe I didn't stick with it, but I have a little bit of knowledge here and everywhere. And yeah, I think from an early age, I always had this drive to do really well at whatever I was doing. I think what switched, though, was when putting in an environment, I was extremely competitive. I did bowling for two years when I was a kid. Yeah, I was extremely competitive, right? Like, I did bowling for like two years when I was a kid, right? Like, yeah, I wanted to be very good at it. But on the outside, like, say like as soon as I went home, it's not like I was gonna go watch tape

of other people bowling. I wasn't gonna like look up ways that I can improve really. Like in the moment, I was competitive, but outside the moment, eh, whatever. You know, I was worried about other things or another activity. I think where that that huge switchover came for my whole entire life, I just believed like, oh, I was gonna just pick up a sport and like a Disney movie, I was gonna find like a lucky hockey stick and suddenly become the best at fucking hockey or something.

But it just, life doesn't work that way, but like, all of my experiences in life were like that. Like you watch a movie and over the course of two hours, a guy comes from nothing and becomes something amazing, you know? And that's just not how life works. There's so much hard work and sacrifice in between, but I didn't see that at a young age. I didn't realize what it takes to be the best at something. I wasn't gonna just pick up a ball and be the best at something. Like, I didn't realize what it takes to be the best at something. I wasn't gonna just pick up a ball

and be the best at something. Like, I had to go out of my way and make the extra effort my entire life to try to be the best at something. Once I started doing Jiu-Jitsu, I saw my coach Tom the Blas, doing that. And I was like, oh, this is how I get good at something. Like, I dedicate all my time to it.

Not just like I show up and train really hard. Like that's good for the day, but it's not good forever, you know, like it's not going to make me the best ever, you know. At that level. Do you do anything outside of the normal ranges of training and nutrition to improve your performance like meditation or cold, hot therapy or anything like that? Yeah, good question. I probably should do more stuff. Like I definitely, you know, with my injuries and things, I probably should get more massages and stuff like that

and I'm sure that would help. I started doing physical therapy for certain injuries. I'm a big believer and not telling people what my injuries are. So, you know, I'm not gonna say specifically what I've been doing physical therapy to improve. But yeah, I've been doing some of that recently. It's just difficult.

Like, the only reason I'm able to do it is because there's a guy in my gym helping me out, you know, and he's been nice enough to do that. And because it's hard for me to just take time out of my day to go drive to a physical therapist and get that done. Like, for the longest time, I've wanted to go train gymnastics somewhere

to like go improve my gymnastics abilities, but I just don't have the time to go drive to somebody. And I wanna pay somebody to teach privates, but those guys are so busy with their thing, like they're not gonna go, you know, come to me and do that. So it's such a difficult process. So honestly, like what you kind of what you said, I don't do a whole lot when it comes to that kind of stuff

to improve my athletic performance. There's probably a lot that I could be doing, but yeah, I miss out on a lot of that stuff. In the future, I think I'll get better at it. As I get older and older, it's gonna become more and more necessary. I'm 25 right now, and I have a pretty decent ability to recover, but what I started noticing is that somewhere around like 22 23 every injury I got just kind of you heal a little bit

But it sticks with you man. There's no like a hundred percent Keeps on going like that. Oh, I'm sure I'm sure but that's what I'm saying. I'm sure that stuff's gonna become more and more important You know, I definitely take some anti-inflammatories and stuff, you know, for certain injuries and things, and that's like a big thing for me. I started taking, I don't know, I mean, you guys have like a pretty good background in like all this stuff, so maybe you would know for sure, maybe some scientific studies or something. I started taking to Merrick, I heard, because I was trying to look up more ways to get anti-inflammatories that,

like I'm not just taking popping more adville, you know? So I looked that up and I started taking that. It feels like it makes a difference. You never really know, you know? You know, turmeric can definitely have a good systemic effect on inflammation. The problem with things like the non-staroidal anti-inflammatories like Ichrofen and the leave and those types of things is that over time they actually can contribute to muscle weakening

and issues in the joint. So they can actually contribute to degeneration. What happens is that inflammatory response that you get, it's an important signal. You don't want to eliminate inflammation because your body needs it to target areas that you get, it's an important signal. So you don't want to eliminate inflammation because your body needs it to target areas that you want to heal. Sure, sure. And the natural stuff like turmeric

or even just changing your diet, that's probably the best thing you could do is eat more greens, eat more fish, drink more water, get good sleep. Those are the probably the eat less sugar. Those are the most effective things you could do for overall. You mean there's not the magic pill, man? Of course. You mean I have to change my lifestyle? Sorry, man. That shit. I'll tell you what

we will. I'm going to keep searching for this magic. I tell you what we will do. Seems a lot easier. Dr. Oz. I'm sorry. I'm sure. You know what I'll help this guy quite a bit is prime. So what we should probably do is hook him up with maps prime. So he can, so we have a program where it shows you kind of had a quote unquote warm up or what to do before you work out. And it takes about 10 minutes, but it sets up your CNS real well. So when you go to your workout, things are more connected.

Honestly, I've noticed a couple of times recently leading up to some competitions. Actually, one time it was actually right before EBI, and I'll talk about this injury because it's not a systemic injury. It's just something that happened in an instant. I was warming up and I fucking pulled my glute, like, literally like second movement

of the fucking warm-up and I'm like, oh, fuck, man. I mean, it wasn't debilitating. It's not, it's something you can easily work around. It wasn't like a huge tear, but I definitely, like I felt it, it was annoying, it hurt. Lately, I've been getting a lot of those, you know, kind of weird off injuries,

right as I'm starting to warm up or whatever the case may be, or maybe I'll jump into practice without warming up and I'll get hurt. It hadn't happened for the longest time, and you know, maybe it's just I'm getting to that age or my body's deteriorated to a point where I can't do that anymore. I can't just jump into activity.

But I definitely need to do, I've been trying to change it, I've been trying to warm up a little bit better. So that'd be cool, man, you know, if it's something that you've got some kind of... Brian would be huge for that. Yeah, I would make a huge difference. Great, excellent, man.

Well, hey, it's been great talking to your brother. Yeah, of course, yeah, I've been awesome with blast. Good time, yeah. Hey, listen, if you like my pump, leave us a five star rating a review on iTunes. If we like your review and we pick it, you'll get a free Mind Pump t-shirt. Also, check us out on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam and Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically

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