Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 598: Building Your Fitness Business with Martin Silva & Andrew Bond [Plus Special Announcement!]

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, ob-mite, up with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Isn't it crazy that it was the, we were the least excited about it? If I was being completely honest, I lagged the most on looking them up. I was the least excited to talk to them. I almost feel like this always happens to us. It's like, that's why I'm like,

Starting point is 00:00:29 even though we show we have an interview tomorrow that we fly to LA, we're going to go interview so it's who I don't like. And he rubbed me the wrong way because over a year and a half ago, we reached out to him. Bro, I talked shit to him once on Instagram. We went back and forth. Yeah, honestly, if you remember that, bro.

Starting point is 00:00:44 So, but I've watched you, the vision be the big Yes. Honestly, if you remember, that was so. But I've watched you. Univision be the big thing. I told myself, we're going and I'm not going to get upset. Because it always ends up this way. The ones that I'm frustrated about or I care the least about it. And thrive for sure. What a fucking badass company do. One to 500 employees in four years the ability for them to Bro their model is the that's the field. Oh, it's like game over How if you can offer me though your bought by Amazon? Yeah, well that will become the direct competitor

Starting point is 00:01:17 I believe my thoughts after after now understanding and seeing thrive and their mark earth seeing their business I believe that that has to do with Amazon's purchase of whole foods. And that's part of their strategy is to become think about it. If you're whole foods, you probably have some of the best organic connections in the country. So that is probably the hardest part for thrive. Like he said on there is to get your good streamlines of good organic foods. So if you're Amazon, you go by the biggest distributor of organic foods, they're going to fuck the stores.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Yeah, but they have a membership system that's different. That's all coming, bro. That's all coming. Yes, why? It'll be well. All right, listen, in this episode of Mind Pump, we get to interview two good friends of ours. We have Martin Silva, who's a competitive, physique competitor, he's actually ranked pretty high. And which organization is it? WBFF. WBFF.

Starting point is 00:02:12 Good looking guy shredded. And his friend Andrew Bond, who's a personal trainer that I know personally, I've actually worked with. And in this episode, we actually talk a lot about building your fitness business, either as a personal trainer or doing it online. There's a lot of really good information in this episode about, you know, how do you build a business in fitness because you have some people who are very successful as personal

Starting point is 00:02:41 trainers or gym managers or- Right, they're knowledgeable. They understand the body, they're, you and I have dealt with this for many, many years. A lot of times I would get a guy or a girl, just brilliant mind, great with people, but then just cannot make any money because they can't sell themselves. That's right, and there's a lot of moving parts there.

Starting point is 00:03:00 In fact, this is an area that in particular, me and Adam trained lots of people for large fitness organizations, specifically on this. In fact, I trained probably more trainers than I did clients, to be quite honest. And we talk a lot about what to do in this episode. And we recorded this episode a while ago. We hadn't aired it until now,

Starting point is 00:03:22 because we wanted to put together a date for a free mastermind here at Mind Pump Media for trainers. It's how to build a six figure plus business in the fitness industry is the idea. And the reason why it's free is because we know this first time and it will just be completely transparent with what we're doing right now. And that is we wanna invite, we're gonna bring down, I don't know how many, however many we can fit, I know Doug will decide that

Starting point is 00:03:52 as far as how many people actually be able to fit in here so we can organize it, run it right. And then it's gonna be a lot of conversation because we wanna find out what are the things that we can do to help those that are wanting to either, either get into the fitness industry or already currently in there and want to make more money doing that.

Starting point is 00:04:09 So this first one is going to be a lot about finding out where can we help you as much as possible. And we're going to, we're going to hang out with you guys for hours and talk about your business and what you can do online, what you can do when you present your product to people, whether it's personal training or gym. I mean, if you're a gym manager, if you're a personal trainer, if you work in fitness online, what you can do when you present your product to people, whether it's personal training or gym. I mean, if you're a gym manager, if you're a personal trainer, if you work and fitness online, like anybody, it's free and it's open. It's completely.

Starting point is 00:04:33 Anybody, we're just limited with space. It's October 21st. It's here in San Jose at Mind Pump Media Studio headquarters. It's going to be in the morning, probably around 10 a.m. I think it'll be at 10 a.m. We're going to go all day long. We'll do it's going to be an all day event. We'll be there all day and it'll start at 10 o'clock in the morning. And you know, right now we haven't closed off in the time that we're in a stop-it-back, because I have a feeling it's going to go. I can't wait, man. I can't wait to like sit down with

Starting point is 00:05:01 people and like dive into their business and help them out. And again, it's completely free. So here's how you can sign up for it. Again, remember, space is limited, so get on there quick, because it probably will fill up fast. It's mindpumpmedia.com forward slash p, the letter p, forward slash money. Again, let me repeat that. Mindpumpmedia.com forward slash p, forward slash money. Again, let me repeat that. MindPumpMedia.com forward slash P forward slash money. So without any further ado, here we are talking

Starting point is 00:05:32 to Martin Silva. You can find him on Instagram at Martin Silva Fitness and talking to Andrew Bond, who you can find on Instagram at Mr. Bond Fitness. Here we go. We have to guess with us today. We need to announce who our guests are. That's right.

Starting point is 00:05:46 Martin Silva, now you're a professional physique competitor from the UK. Yes, it's right. I read an article about you. It said you were one of the up and coming talent coming out of the USA. It was out of the UK, excuse me. It was a very exciting article.

Starting point is 00:05:57 Oh, thanks, thanks. I don't know who wrote it. He's all I wrote it. You're all in short. I wrote that one. I wrote that one. My mom did. You're here. And then we got. We have a wrote it. And's not doing some work. I wrote that one, I wrote that one. My mom did. And then we got,

Starting point is 00:06:05 We've ever wrote a hat off to him. And then you came with your friend, Andrew Bond, who's a personal trainer out on the East Coast. That's correct. East Coast in the US. You guys have social media as you wanna plug? Yeah. Well, my Instagram is at Martin Silver Fitness

Starting point is 00:06:19 and my YouTube channel, which is up and coming. I'm trying to grow that a bit more. It's just Martin Silverolent fitness on YouTube. So that's pretty much it really. It means you handles. This is on Facebook as well. But you do a lot of pornography photos and so on. Yeah, I want to keep down on the downloads.

Starting point is 00:06:35 So I want to keep the soft photos aside, right? Can I tell you what happened, legit, right? So I started, so when you were following us and we would talk back and forth, so I'd like your photos, then I want to show you support. and a lot of your photos are kind of like these you know shirts off Kind of all the mid-tier so I started liking I started liking your shit next thing I know the search function you know when you go on the search on your Instagram. Yeah, it's showing me all these fucking dudes Yeah, this is what he told us anyway you ruin this is getting worried about you. Yeah, I'm like more. It's cuz of Martin

Starting point is 00:07:04 You ruined it for me. Oh, that's great, man. That's good to hear. I ruined your life. Yeah, that's my life. Just the search part. Just you Instagram, yeah. Andrew, where do they find you on social media?

Starting point is 00:07:13 You can find me on Instagram at Mr. Bond Fitness as in Bond B-O-N-D. That's a great last name. It looks like a five of a sudden. So, yeah. Now, you guys have been in fitness for a long time. You're both also personal trainers. And you're my favorite sometimes. Yeah. Now you guys have been in fitness for a long time. You're both also personal trainers. And you've been listening to MindPom.

Starting point is 00:07:28 How did you guys find Andrew? You found us first. I found you stumbled across you by chance, really. I was following your boy Joe, Joe Donnelly. Oh, shout out to Joe Donnelly. What a, you love a bit of Joe then? What a great guy. And he's so friendly.

Starting point is 00:07:43 He's so friendly. He's a stable individual. Very stable. friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly.

Starting point is 00:07:51 He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly.

Starting point is 00:07:59 He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. He's so friendly. section and some some girl commented I love the podcast you're on and luckily enough I was just starting going into podcasts at that time and I looked up your obviously mind-pop media and I started backtracking through all your podcasts I'm thoroughly enjoyed them and then I just said you're over to Martin. I like to

Starting point is 00:08:15 give you my my little story on my first first episode of Mind Pump quickly. He introduced me and I scroll for the list. one I listened to was the Crossfit one I think it was it was hilarious. So I was I was hooked straight on and obviously I learnt a lot of the episode as well So I was I was tuned in then from from from from the Crossfit one. Well, that's like in the beginning Backtrack from most of them and then just caught up then No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, half years ago, and basically my whole lifting career has been the typical bro splits, you know, splitting the body parts, never really focusing on doing the bodies a whole, and you know, focusing on training, frequency, and adaptation as you guys integrate into the programs. So it was just switching over and hitting the body parts more regular, just to dumb it down, hitting the body parts more regular by doing the three total body sessions.

Starting point is 00:09:28 The first plan I'd done was the red maps, which I had awesome results off. The trigger sessions were a treat on the days in between and that. But yeah, anyway, I always done bros splits and done different body parts. And then I switched over to the red maps. I'd done the whole night. It's nine nine weeks I think the red maps won. The results were insane. I mean, strength also physique as well. And just the fullness and my muscles from doing those trigger sessions of vascularity, everything. And then I, I went, maybe I should have done a green maps in between, but I went over to the black maps and I said, I'll stay X, leading up to a show actually, leading up to the World Championships. And then I actually had a coach at my own, so I switched over to a different plan.

Starting point is 00:10:08 But yeah, in hindsight, I probably would have been better off just sticking to the Black Maps. So I'd done that leading up to the coming out here as well for the cast and I had out here, then a Black Maps, I stayed at X, just then a phase two and phase three at the end. And yeah, I apply that now. I apply that style of training now to my clients. And how are they doing with it? Really well, yeah, really well.

Starting point is 00:10:29 Because you train some people as you know, once or maybe twice a week. So to get, you know, to get most things covered within that time and get, you know, the maximum results really, the frequency element comes in a lot there as well. So I'll do two sessions with someone. And I'll do, I'll cover every, all the most, you know, all the compound exercises within those two workouts and get two foundational workouts in with them along those lines of

Starting point is 00:10:53 red maps and black maps and I've integrated prime into that as well, obviously with all my clients and what's been a really, really good set-in point out in Australia, so obviously I moved over there that stuff from scratch from my PT business is the prime assessments. What they call the end? Oh, yeah, the company. The company's company. Oh, on the initial session, they work. How many years now have you been training clients? Long time, over a decade.

Starting point is 00:11:16 Oh, yeah, real long time. Since I was 19, 20, yeah. Oh, shit, you started early, like I said. I started early, yeah, like you guys, yeah, that's why I can relate a lot to a lot of the stuff you talk about. Very cool. It blows me away how full circle some of the stuff is coming because one of the impetus that kind of got me to create the first maps program was identifying how the old time strong men and bodybuilders trained before the introduction of steroids or even before the introduction of protein powders, like way back in the day. And you'd read about their feats of strength and you'd see pictures of their

Starting point is 00:11:48 physiques and it was very impressive, especially considering they had no, none of them dieted, none of them did anything other than they would train in a particular way. And they all trained kind of these full body type routines and they would all write about certain things. I'd read about Eugene Sandow and you know some of these other you know strong men and you know aesthetic looking physics back in those days and they would say things like don't train to failure but they would use other terminology and they you know talk about training muscles more frequently and how in between their workouts they

Starting point is 00:12:20 would practice movements at low intensities. And once I started kind of opening my mind a little bit and applying that to myself and to my clients, it blew me away. And mainly it blew me away because it was so opposite. It was so opposite from what I was reading in the bodybuilding magazines and the fitness forums and stuff. And the funny thing now, it's coming full circle. One of our forum members just shared an article from TNation, which by the way is a great, for the most part they've got great articles. And they just, there was an article published I think about maybe four months ago, three months ago that they shared.

Starting point is 00:12:51 And the title of it is Split Routines are dead. That's literally what they say, which I would have never expected from a bodybuilding, you know, muscle building, you know, blog or whatever. So it was really, really cool. But so you're both personal trainers, but you guys were also both talking about trying to build that in other realms. Are there, yeah, what are you guys looking to do?

Starting point is 00:13:11 We talked about online coaching potentially. And definitely online coaching. I feel that now that I'm trying to look into other businesses like real estate back home my sister, because I can't see me doing, pushing out 10, 10 to 12 sessions a day. Like I'm doing at the moment, it's so tiring. That is someone I don't want to do into the into the future.

Starting point is 00:13:31 As passionate as I am about it, I can't see myself doing that in my 40s, 50s. People don't realize when you train, you know, seven clients or eight clients in a day, they think you train seven or eight hours. I think it's easy, man. They think it's, you know, working with different personalities for the seven to eight hours. I think it's easy, man. The thing is, you know, working with different personalities for those seven to eight hours, as well as difficult for the old man. Mentally training, you know.

Starting point is 00:13:50 It's not just physical. I mean, you're physically actually lifting weights and spotting people for seven, eight hours. But then on top of that, you're also like you said. You're on. Exactly, you're on. You're talking to, if you're good, right? If you're really good, you're a chameleon

Starting point is 00:14:04 and you're able to mirror whatever client you have, which is gonna bring you higher. You're serving the energy, you're serving it in, which a lot of times is super draining. Hell yeah, so I think a lot of people don't realize how much that takes to be able to, and then to do it well, right?

Starting point is 00:14:16 Because you're trying to give a very personalized, great session, great training regimen from somebody who is fully on. You don't want one client paying the same as your first client who gets energy filled, add them when he gets to work. But then when you start... Just like you said before, actually, it just came back to me then, you said,

Starting point is 00:14:37 which I've seen me have taken on board, is a good trainer, is always a therapist before they are a trainer. Which was Dalvin deeper into the psychological issues and elements and components that come to come into getting, that makes sense. So it was Dalvin deeper into the psychological issues and elements and components that come to come into getting achieving your goals. And that's about which can be taxing and that is the psychological side of it, the energy you're kind of.

Starting point is 00:14:53 I just got to, in fact, I just got to, I don't know if you don't mind me sharing, but I work with Andrew virtually. So I do some coaching with him. And he had asked me, if I had any techniques or any advice for when, you know, you work with a client how to not take on their stress or not take on their, some of their issues because when you're working with people on a one on one basis,

Starting point is 00:15:14 people will come in with problems, they'll come in with stresses, they'll come in with just their energy could be, you know, low or, or, or they could be, you know, irritable or whatever in a bad mood. And it's hard not to take that on, especially if you're an empathetic individual, which most personal trainers who stay as personal trainers, part of the reason why they do it is they like people. They are empathetic individuals.

Starting point is 00:15:35 So it becomes a very difficult thing, not to mention again, like we were just talking about earlier, you're on the entire time. So if you're working eight hours, for those you're listening to have a typical, you know, nine to five job You know most of you are not working for eight hours. You're not on for eight hours Well the irony is the better you get the harder it becomes the better you you become at your job Which is that ability to be a chameleon to be able to service each one of those people individually and give them what they need energy

Starting point is 00:16:02 Motivation direction wise, it becomes even more taxing on you, right? So because taxing, using the concepts that I've learned though, you know, recently, even through this podcast loan is, it's just actually, um, getting to take a step back a lot of time because people are normally, it's who stressed out in life and they, they're normally doing too much or they're not doing enough, they're not eating right, they're not doing enough mobility. So it's taking them a step, getting people to slow down and focus more on, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:29 stretch in and then, you know, doing maybe a strand phase with them and doing different things with them and kind of getting them to, like I said, slow down is a hard task within itself and at this day and age. Right. Well, one thing that I, so, you know, I thought a lot about Andrew's question when he asked me that and I gave him some advice, but then I thought some more about it. And I realized that one of the things that I did that was really effective as a personal trainer that made it easy for me was I started to become that as much as I had to show and teach my clients and the reason that they hired me, I also was able to learn and grow from them.

Starting point is 00:17:10 So, I got an opportunity to train a doctor or surgeon. Well, during the session, I'm gonna ask them questions about things I'm interested in that have to do with medicine, medications or procedures or maybe someone's in executive at a tech company. I'm gonna ask them questions about what they're doing. There is a dual purpose there. People do like to de-stress by talking about certain things and it makes them feel better

Starting point is 00:17:31 on the flip side. I'm learning. I get the opportunity to work with all these different personalities and learn from them. The result of that was doing that after doing that for 10 years of working with all these professionals was I just became well-versed in all these professionals was I was just, I just became well versed in all these different subjects and I looked forward to showing up to work rather than sometimes being like, oh man, I'm so tired of what I do. I was like, oh shit, I get to go meet with Sonso, who's a general surgeon.

Starting point is 00:17:58 I can't wait to hear about the cases that they've been working on. And I would ask them detailed questions. They actually appreciated it. I got something out of it. And then I didn't feel like I was just giving, giving, giving and going home, you know, totally spent. And that became the highlight of personal training for me was it was like I was going to school every single day and I'll come out of it, you know, smarter and, you know, more informed. And again, the side effect was I became so much of a better personal trainer as a result. But I'd say one of the biggest drawbacks

Starting point is 00:18:29 of personal training is a career. If you're gonna stay in that, that particular specific part of the field is you're limited by the amount of hours of the day. You can't see more than, I mean, eight clients a day, five days a week, is very, very exhausting. I'll for sure.

Starting point is 00:18:45 In fact, when we worked for big corporate fitness facilities, they considered full time six. Six clients a day was full time. I also think that the business model is changing. It's changing and it will continue to change. And I think fitness is a little bit behind. And that was part of what inspired mind pump when we got together.

Starting point is 00:19:05 We all kind of saw that like, man, when you look at like, and we're lucky, we're blessed. We're in the Silicon Valley. So we get to see a lot of tech stuff move pretty fast and we see it early before the rest of the country does, right? So that being said, I think when and someone Justin loves this stuff, when you start looking at like where all these other businesses are moving and fitness is really kind of the stone age that we kind of knew that. I foresee that one on one type of coaching that that's starting to go away more and more and more and more because there's always going to be those people out there that will pay whatever amount of money to have one person giving them all their attention. There that will there'll be a market there, but that market's going to shrink because we

Starting point is 00:19:44 went through in about 2000 and if you guys should remember because you've been around so long, is in the early 2000s, we went through that huge boom. Everybody was making money. Everyone was spending money on personal training. It was cool to say I had a personal trainer. And then we hit the bubble burst and the market took a shit. And then all of a sudden, training actually became a real, like it was hard to get a client now where I was part of the era before during and after and I remember that transition and what that felt like. Everybody was doing boot camps at that point right? Yeah, I did.

Starting point is 00:20:15 I did also right. So I at one point realized like I got used to a certain amount of income as a trainer and now in order to make that same kind of money I had to get creative. I had to do other things than just take on all these people that wanted a personal trainer to say they had as a trainer. And now in order to make that same kind of money, I had to get creative. I had to do other things than just take on all these people that wanted a personal trainer to say they had a personal trainer. Now only the people that could afford it were coming and getting training.

Starting point is 00:20:33 And so that forced me to think outside the box and that within the group training. And I was doing that a long time ago. And you see now like orange theories, your soul cycles, all these little small little boxes are like the new thing, right? Where they have, it's almost like private coaching because you get it, it's rendered yourself, but then there's 20 to 30 in a class.

Starting point is 00:20:53 So it's intimate, but yet class like, so you see that model going, right? Now you have metrics and all these biomarkers that you can sort of follow. And I think that's honestly, that's where the tech boom is really kind of coming in and they're trying to grab all these different data points. And so, if you're a trainer now, I think what's the smart approach, and you're talking about being able to scale, right? That's the biggest issue,

Starting point is 00:21:18 because you can only train so many hours of the day, you really gotta figure out your process, and you gotta figure out your protocol, like every single step to that process, like make notes and keep that in your mind as far as like, how can you duplicate yourself? How can you duplicate yourself right at all out? What are the steps you take with each individual case? What are the variables, all that kind of stuff? Because later on, that's gonna be valuable

Starting point is 00:21:46 because you're gonna be able to now take a lot of that information and you're gonna be able to put it in some form of an app or some form of a tech, a device and you're gonna be able to reach a lot more people. That's my plan, Siege. That's actually, obviously I've came over here for like a modeling gig, providing that land this, it should pay really well. And I'm looking to, I've already, I've had a website in place

Starting point is 00:22:08 by the way you can check it out is shameless plug. I want to try and build it up. It's not. It's also selling. It's never been done. It's not in my programs on this as well. We always, we appreciate it. It's not, it's not, it's not.

Starting point is 00:22:23 It's not. It's a great that red tube. No, that's not. That's a great sign. It's a great sign. I mean, YouTube, it's my, my and Dash silver, sorry, myandashilver.com. But anyway, yeah, I'm looking to, to focus more on the online stuff.

Starting point is 00:22:35 And like you said, the main thing is to scale it. But I'm actually designing my own programs, obviously, out of where we sell, inspired by you guys. So from what I've learned and stuff, I'm looking to get my own programs in place now as a first step, as a few of the things I've got in mind ideas as well. But like you said about an app as well,

Starting point is 00:22:51 I've been looking into potentially doing that one day as well. But yeah, that's where it's at really. You've got to kind of move with the times, if you like now. Well, you've got technology, you've got to capitalize on that. And you can, you can move into that realm, but there's a lot of trainers who don't want to, and they say, look, I just want to work with clients. I just want to work with people.

Starting point is 00:23:08 I want to touch people. I want to be in front of people. I don't necessarily want to spread out, which is fine too, but there are smart ways of doing it. One thing. Yeah, but when you say that, a trainer that says that to me is the same thing I'd say back to that trainer, who's like, oh, I just want to be a trainer.

Starting point is 00:23:21 I just want to help people. I just don't, but I don't want to sell anything. Yeah, I don't want to, you have to learn to look, you have to learn to look at the, it's a business. No, no, no, no, no, it's a business. I just want to help people. I just don't but I don't want to sell anything. Yeah, I don't want to You have to learn to look you have to learn to look at it's a business No, no, it's a business saying that yes, you do got to do that But what I was gonna say is there's very smart ways of structuring your business that are gonna help you be more successful Like for example the way Justin's did his personal training the way structured the way clients paid him I think it's fucking brilliant That I was I didn't even do when I had my wellness facility,

Starting point is 00:23:47 I wish I did, because it was, I don't know if you wanna kinda go into how that works. Yeah. Usually with personal training, the way it works is people will buy sessions, right? They'll buy a package of sessions, 10 sessions, 20 sessions, so they're trying to hustle them through these sessions

Starting point is 00:24:01 in order to get a resign. Yeah, exactly. And you had it set up a little differently. Yeah, so I basically kind of flipped it and made sure that I have a month-to-month basis of like, okay, you have an availability. You have, you know, one, two, three, you know, sort of sessions available for you per week.

Starting point is 00:24:19 And so, you know, what we do is we agree upon this ahead of time. So, you know, within the month, you have X amount of sessions that you can, you know, what we do is we agree upon this ahead of time. So, you know, within the month, you have X amount of sessions that you can, you know, accomplish. And we're gonna go ahead and schedule it out and do all this ahead of time. But you're gonna pay me for that upfront. And, you know, my time is valuable, your time is valuable.

Starting point is 00:24:37 This actually puts the ball back into their court. So it's not like you as a trainer, you have to like constantly barrage them with text messages and trying to get them to stay motivated and come into the gym. And I mean, obviously you're still gonna wanna do that because you want the long term. You know, you want them to keep enjoying the process,

Starting point is 00:24:57 but you have to think of yourself as a professional and like this, you have to value yourself. And so, I charged up front and I charged a flat fee. And then it... So it'd be X amount of dollars that they pay just monthly. And it's sessions available and it's up to them. So if they don't show up, then I said, they lose the money.

Starting point is 00:25:16 They lose it, right? They lose it. Or they can maximize them and use them. So I'm available three sessions away. Exactly, we can, you know, it's $3,000 a month or whatever your fee is. And so then you get, you have a bunch, you know, a bunch of clients who are paying you a flat monthly fee as a personal trainer business wise, it's good because, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:32 when Justin told me how he structured, I was like, fuck, that's the way it needs to go, because one of the biggest problems with being a personal trainer is the instability of monthly income. That's the other thing. Yeah, because you could go like this month I resign all these people, then for two months I don't, and I don't know how to, this is like you know exactly what you're monthly. And there's ways to kind of like, if you're currently just doing like 10, 20, 30 session,

Starting point is 00:25:57 you know, like the old kind of model where you're trying to sell those as packages, and you're trying to run these people through. So once it ends up, I just started to slowly convert all my clients into this month-to-month basis. And obviously you give them a little bit of a break because it's a flat fee. But even just scaling back a little bit on price for a flat fee per month, it was a consistent payment process.

Starting point is 00:26:23 Now, I have ways that I can incorporate that money and plan out my marketing strategy, you know, all the other components of business that you need to have reliable income to lean on. So that was huge. Yeah, what I would, what I would like about that too is it gives it puts more responsibility to the client to show up and work out. And that model, what's that? I like that call. It's called something because they're doing it with healthcare now. Yeah, some doctors are doing it.

Starting point is 00:26:51 Yeah, and it's popular for you to group things. Personally, I think that was great four years ago when Justin was killing it and doing it. I think now, you need to have evolved your social media business to a point because that is the direction is going You will see this mark my words in the next couple years You will see the where I don't know where you guys are at what the big chains are over here It's like the 20 before our fitness to LA fitness. These are the big chains

Starting point is 00:27:16 You will see big chains their training staff will be full of 10 trainers Not only will they all be educated experience fit good looking but they'll also have full of 10 trainers. Not only will they all be educated, experience fit, good looking, but they'll also have 10,000 Instagram followers, 5,000. Oh, yeah, you got to have a fit. That will become part of your already seeing this in other in other parts, in other parts of the other industries that are always ahead of fitness. Fitness is always behind on this shit. But you're already seeing this where application process will ask for people's social media following because there's a lot of power in employing somebody who if I got the if I have the two of you and you're you're

Starting point is 00:27:49 coming to me and you want a job let's say for mind pump you're gonna come work you want to work for me I'm gonna off you great great pay I like you both a lot you both pass all the characteristics just test and I go well he's got 10,000 followers he doesn't he doesn't like social media. He's off of it. He doesn't care what I'm with that. Well, who the fuck is my in a hire? It's a no-brainer.

Starting point is 00:28:10 That's 10,000 people you're automatically introducing to my business by hiring you on. You're and multiply that by 10, 15, 20 trainers. This will become a necessity. Whether you decide to work for a company or you decide to go privately on your own. Actually, more so if you work for yourself. Yeah, it's almost mandatory if you're going to be by yourself.

Starting point is 00:28:28 So Justin's model, I'm not knocking that because four years ago. No, that's part of it. He would be part of it. The social media is another part of it. You can't ignore that. That's something that you can fix right now. Like if you're a trainer right now and you're not doing that, you can convert over that. That could be a transition you make tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:28:41 But you better bet your ass that if you're not getting on your social media as at least as a business. And I'll tell you what, and this is coming from a guy who didn't turn on his Facebook, didn't turn on all that shit. I hated all that. I remember when you used to message me back in the day when we first started kind of talking a little bit. You know, Adam would send me messages and be like, dude, you need to fucking get on Instagram.

Starting point is 00:29:02 This is back when I, you know, me and Doug were putting maps together and I'm like Instagram with a few things. Who cares? I don't to fucking get on Instagram. This is back when I, you know, me and Doug were putting maps together and I'm like Instagram, it's a flex answer, who cares? I don't wanna get on Instagram. It's like, no, you have to get on it. You don't even know and I'm like, no, no, no, I mean, whatever, I don't even care about it. I mean, I obviously should have listened back then

Starting point is 00:29:15 because it'd be a lot bigger now, but I mean, it's becoming a huge part of business. It will become, I totally agree with you Adam, it will become the biggest part of business, it will become, I totally agree with you Adam, it will become the biggest part of business. Crazy. You're net worth, like I say all the time, right? Your true net worth is your net circle. And before you even decide how you're gonna make money,

Starting point is 00:29:37 any of those things, you can be working on your net circle. And I think this is where a lot of people make a mistake. We get so cut up and what I'm going to sell and how am I going to make money versus I need to find the people that would even be considering buying anything from me and that should be my main priority and if I need to have something of value to get them to tune in and listen to what I have to say and if I'm still having a hard time doing that, I'm putting all my energy and figuring that out before I'm even thinking about my... Yeah, no, I 100% agree.

Starting point is 00:30:05 I didn't to bring it back to like the old, you know, when I was actually in the business doing it that way, I was constantly running like Google ads. I was optimizing my website. You know, I was doing all the legwork online to then get the traffic and get that all established because, you know, with that type of a model,

Starting point is 00:30:27 you need to constantly be focused on your marketing and driving that business towards you. So, at that point, like when they sign up, it's great because it's reliable income, but, you know, that's freeing up my time to work more on marketing. You know what, this is a great conversation because I get messages from fitness people

Starting point is 00:30:49 all the time, trainers who are always asking me how they can build their social media and how they can turn that part or at least use that part to help build their business. And just for trainers in my opinion, I think this is everybody. Well, I mean, just because that's everybody who wants to be self-employed, right?

Starting point is 00:31:03 Well, that's just because that's our wheelhouse, right? I usually don't get real estate people a message about that, but- But so here's another part of that because a lot of them are just worried about the size of their social media, like how many followers I can get. And Adam, you had an interesting experience with your Instagram page.

Starting point is 00:31:22 When we first started Mind Pump, you had these social media presence. None of us did at all, so that would kind of give us a little start. But a change in it shifted with Mind Pump, and it actually became more effective later on, even though it was... Yeah, with less. Yeah, so explain that, maybe, because I always get people asking me

Starting point is 00:31:39 how they can get it bigger, and it's not necessarily about the size. When I first turned on... That's what she said. When I first turned on, that's what she said. When I first turned on my Instagram, I did it with the intention of building a business. I didn't turn it on to connect to people, to have fun with it because it sounded cool to do. I had already made up my mind that I was going to try and build this business off of us through a social media platform and I saw where Instagram was going.

Starting point is 00:32:05 So when I turned it on immediately I was already kind of watching what others were okay, what is what is this guy doing that's like in my in my field, what's he doing to have all these people following him. And of course a lot of the times it was somebody who was already famous and then they got in then they turned on an Instagram and then of course they already had a large following. So sometimes it was hard to see fine people. And then after I've been doing it for a while, I could see somebody who had a small page and I got to watch them grow and saw some things. And then at the beginning I was mirroring a lot of what I saw.

Starting point is 00:32:36 And a lot of what I saw in the early on, especially in men's fitness and some of that, is the like the half naked photos. Those always get the most likes. They get the most attention. And I'm going to keep posting those. So I posted like crazy. And I was getting at the early on when I first started my Instagram, you know, I was getting up over a thousand likes on photos and seemed to be growing pretty well. But I went, when I went back then, Justin and I had created a nutrition survival guide.

Starting point is 00:33:03 And when we released it, I didn't sell very much. And I was like, fuck, you know, get all these likes. This is what you thought, you thought, I'm getting all this social media for. Yeah, right. And so really, if I look back now, if I look back, if you look all the way back on my IG, you can see it's a lot different now than what it was.

Starting point is 00:33:20 And today it's more me, it's who I am. Like now I get to just put myself out there as my pump at home and this is who I am. This is what I talk about this, what I'm thinking about is what I'm reading, whatever. Versus when I first started, I was trying to grow the business so much. I was always doing all these things to try and get attention to get followers. And then of it was really converting to dollars. Now like a normal picture is like 700 likes or so, but then there's 50 to 100 comments because there are people that are actually fans of the show engaging asking questions about fitness. They're not following me because I am half naked and I'm

Starting point is 00:33:56 attractive. I miss the bear red pics. That's the difficulty trying to build your Instagram when you know I'm getting the most likes with shirtless pictures. Yeah. And when I'm talking about other vegetables and things like that and I'm getting minimal likes and I'm like, how do I build this? Yeah, exactly. I play a veg or some with his top top. Some of these shirts. They're under a shirt. Well, I mean, I went all the way to the length. So I saw this and I saw that the cleaner the page looks, all these things. So I went and actually I paid a photographer took when I got in shape, I came out of my pocket paid for all those stuff

Starting point is 00:34:29 so I could have photos that I could drip over over the course of time. Yeah, leak them out and then write posts to them. So I tried to do all that stuff. I did that. I was successful doing that, but I was I was attracting the wrong people. These aren't people that we're going to that wanted to hear me talk about health and fitness and a better way to take care of your pictures of the state through to yourself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if I was now selling men's underwear and stuff like that,

Starting point is 00:34:54 that probably would have been a good strategy, right? But it wasn't specific. It was a specific of a new year. And that's the same position I was in as well. I built all the following up, you know, doing the competitions and stuff. It was a given that most of the photos were half naked photos, you know what I was like when you shredded it.

Starting point is 00:35:08 It's like you get the pictures of there, you get the likes, you follow, my following was flying up. And then I started going more, okay, now it wasn't like yourself where I went in there initially with the game plan. It was just like I was doing competitions, I got like, you know, I was actually sponsored by Sutton, my company back in the day as well as one of those in a free-tubber protein. Yeah, free-tubber protein a month, you know, making it all worth my while, all that

Starting point is 00:35:32 um, all those sweeteners and stuff, not but, not but yeah, that's it and it kind of slowed down. Well, I took the educational route or route as you say over here, took the educational route. It slowed down, we're following definitely slowed down and the likes weren't coming in as thick and fast. But now I'm noticing I'm starting, I'm seeing the trend of people I'm attracting now, people who actually wanna be educating more, wanna learn more about how to fit this, which is good, so I'm slowly viewed away

Starting point is 00:35:57 from the wrong kind of follow. There's a lot, there's a lot. I've still got, yeah. So my page is a good example of that. And by no means am I an expert at social media, this is something that's still relatively new to me. I'm probably, when it comes to the aesthetics of the page and all that stuff and understanding,

Starting point is 00:36:11 I'm probably the worst. But one thing I do, I think very well, is deliver information. And so I don't have a massive page, but what I do have is followers who follow me who value my content, which translates into business if I want it to. In other words, I have a good conversion rate.

Starting point is 00:36:29 And I notice, I have friends and stuff who've got much larger pages who aren't able to convert their pages because people don't follow them for their value in terms of their information and stuff. It's just to look at them. And so that's something to think about because if you're in fitness,

Starting point is 00:36:43 it's very tempting to do that because fitness is so cosmetic driven It's very tempting to be just all about your looks and you will get a lot of follow especially your female If you're female and you're very good looking you're very fit and you're posting half naked pictures You'll get 10,000 followers. I mean you're gonna get 10. You have those if you have what kind of follows you think they'll be then All right, well I'll give you what are they gonna buy from you if you're trying to build a big thing we actually ain't gonna buy you see right we actually made sure that we tested this theory too is we we paid a guy we paid 1500 all 15 or $1,800 oh yeah to a girl who had

Starting point is 00:37:16 a million four million followers and had her do multiple posts about mind pump and uh we didn't get shit from it I mean, we didn't get hardly anything. So I was thinking four million people, not about a few new followers, but you're not gonna get any direct conversions necessarily because of the type of people. That's the thing. You think four million followers, you're thinking,

Starting point is 00:37:35 wow, we're gonna do a couple of posts. Like, this is gonna be massive. And you know what our followers did, is they looked at and like, this is not a naked picture. This is not a butt, I don't give a shit. And they don't wanna even get any care what she has. That's what they do. And they don't want to even care what she has. That's what I'm gonna do.

Starting point is 00:37:45 It's funny. And they don't even care what she has to say. Now on the flip side, if we had, I don't know, somebody who has a lot of content on their page, somebody whose followers follow them because they really like a coach or a train or even something like a Lane Norton post, hey, look at this new program that I'm following.

Starting point is 00:38:01 It's really good. We're gonna see huge bump because the followers are following them because they respect their information and their content. So, really that I'm following. It's really good. We're gonna see huge bump because the followers are following them because they respect their information and their content. So, really, I heard this from, I can't remember where I heard this, and I'm not sure if this is accurate and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that really all you need for an online business to be very successful. And that, by the way, not everybody's gonna be multi-millionaire, you know, successful

Starting point is 00:38:24 with online business. But most people can do very well with an online business, can really support themselves well. And you need somewhere like maybe like 5,000 to 10,000 like dedicated customers or followers, that's it. I mean, there was a podcast, when me and Doug were talking about, we were doing online marketing with Mass before Mind Pump even started,

Starting point is 00:38:48 we had thrown around the idea of a podcast. And one of the ones we looked to was, I think entrepreneur on fire, if I'm not mistaken, and a popular podcast, and the guy openly talk about the amount of revenue he would generate. He was generating something like a quarter million dollars a month, and revenue, but it wasn't very many customers. It wasn't like he was getting shit tons of customers.

Starting point is 00:39:07 He had a really good product. It was a high-price product, but he delivered lots of value. So he only needed like a couple thousand customers to be able to generate this tremendous amount of revenue because of the value he brought. And that's something that people should consider if they're trying to build a business. Cause I think a lot of times, at least this was for me, I was very confused,

Starting point is 00:39:26 that look at social media and think, oh, this will never work for me, I can't get, how am I gonna get half a million followers? Or a million followers, that's never gonna happen. You don't have to have that. You can actually, if you're a personal trainer, and let's say you just wanna build an online coaching business, and you're delivering good content,

Starting point is 00:39:43 and you wanna make a decent living. 10,000 good followers who are following you for your content is plenty to be able to do that off of. You don't need a ton. Almost anybody can develop a page with a couple years with a work of dedication to be able to build that. But I do think it's important that maybe we tell people or give people tips on how to do that because I sort of got out of my musket, at least a message a day on how, on how to do that.

Starting point is 00:40:07 And that, I think, is such a big part. Well, I think, being consistent, like you said, just being consistent with what the information you wanna give and not be even away from what you're doing. Yeah, I think that we're in an era now of like transparency as king, with all the abilities to Photoshop

Starting point is 00:40:23 and go rent a Lamborghini and take pictures in front of it to do all these crazy things and to pretend like you're something that you're not. I think somebody who's willing to humble themselves, squash their ego a bit and just be real, the struggle's real, this is what it's like doing what I'm doing and sharing that journey, I think, for people, it's just it's really rare

Starting point is 00:40:45 It's rare to find that everybody is putting their best foot forward and I think Being different than everybody else you got to be different or you got to be able to provide something that somebody else can't Provide like you right so authentic and yeah Exactly and I think when you the more authentic that you can be I think that's the first key But then there's like some real, like I think important tips too. And I, and you know, Sal just said something that I continue to raz him about.

Starting point is 00:41:12 So learning to speak to your platforms, in a perfect world, Sal's content would be on Facebook, on our Facebook page, and his Instagram would look more like our MyInPump Media IG page. So you got to speak to your platform. So Instagram is got where it's at.

Starting point is 00:41:29 The reason why half naked pictures are get so many likes is people are scrolling through a feed. It's fast, it's instant. I'm going through, I see a hot picture, I like it, I move next picture. I'm not, I don't think they read it sometimes. They don't, they don't. And you know how to experiment with that. You've done that before, right? next picture. I'm not. I don't think they read it sometimes. They don't. They don't. And

Starting point is 00:41:45 you know how to experiment with that. You've done that before. I've actually tested that. I'll put something there inside the content that's fucking obvious to what I'm saying. And people still ask the question. I'm like, you didn't read the four lines I wrote. Like, so that's Instagram. So knowing that, and you're, if you're trying to grow it, when you look out, when I open, I do this all the time, right? I open up and I look at my homepage, and I look at it from a bird's eye view, is it aesthetically pleasing? Does it make me want to go to the net, see what that picture is and look at it? And that means everything from the photos are clean and professional to interesting enough to where I'd want to tap on, tap on it. So, you know, those are simple things that you can already start thinking about right now

Starting point is 00:42:29 for those that are trying to grow a social media business. And then Facebook, you do actually get people that will read blogs. It's more of a blog setting. It's a steal appeals to the older generation that like ourselves, that will read content that long. So good long content belongs to some of that Twitter, fast, smart, witty, good to the point, punctual information. So learning to speak to your platform is another thing that's important to and getting good at and actually treating it like that. If you're trying to build it and decide that,

Starting point is 00:43:02 is this your page to show me your family and your kids and your hot girlfriend or is this your business page? You know, you distinguish that. Am I trying to build a business around your half family, half party fun life, half business? Like if you're really treating it like a business, it should kind of reflect whatever your business idea is too. So I think that's important.

Starting point is 00:43:24 And I think some general, really general advice that we've really tried to capitalize on, or at least has become a part of our brand, is deliver and give, give, give, as much free stuff as you possibly can, as much information, as much access as you possibly can, because whether you like it or not, and this was really hammered home to us

Starting point is 00:43:48 by one of the guests that we had on our show, Tom Billu, and that's basically anything that can be free, will be free at some point. And we're seeing that with big media like TV, music, like the more free it can be, the more free it's gonna be. And if someone can give, where you're giving away for free,

Starting point is 00:44:08 they will and you're done. And so you gotta learn how to work with that. And you gotta be consistent with that as well. It's not just so you can give a few free articles out, for example, or whatever you're gonna give out, you know, information. It needs to be consistent. You have to do it for some time of years on end,

Starting point is 00:44:23 consistently before you get any comeback. So any positive stuff. Well, we were talking about that with the YouTube. It needs to be consistent you have to do it first sometimes you use on end consistently before you get any comeback so any Positive well, we were talking about that with the YouTube like you know if we're being completely transparent I mean I think we make a whole like three dollars a day on YouTube Yeah, right doesn't even doesn't even pay for the electricity The day can feel so look at the bigger picture and and every day we're adding 50 new to 60 new subscribers, but that's it's slow. It takes a lot of work.

Starting point is 00:44:49 It wasn't built in the day, was it? Right. And if you're, if we're thinking about all the ways that I'm going to make money off of it right now, like we're not thinking correctly, we're always trying to enhance the channel. So, you know, like I told you, I mean, think about money from YouTube. It's all about like just how can we make it better? How can we make give more and just keep doing that?

Starting point is 00:45:08 Like when we turned on Mind Pump, we didn't, we didn't ask for a single dollar for a full year. No. When we had the podcast, because we knew like we just want, we just want to give people so much that by the time we do offer something, they see the value in it. And it's okay, I want to support, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:23 support this podcast or whatever. I want to support this podcast or whatever I want to get this product because I've been listening to these guys talk for. And when you analyze all of your, all the big YouTube stars, right? The ones that have the gold button, right? Million plus subscribers and are making a ton of money through YouTube.

Starting point is 00:45:37 Most of them, that's what they've, they've just for nine, 10 years, they've been given lots of great free information. And they're first to market. Yeah, first to market, great information early on, tons of it consistently over 19 years. I mean, they've heard. That's why it's, it means a good idea to really look at, you know, what's trending as far as like a new platform.

Starting point is 00:45:56 So like, our guy was telling us a little bit about medium as being a good place to blog now because it's getting a lot of traction. It's like a blog social media. Yeah, and there's just, there's just stuff like that. You want to keep your eyes peeled if you're just starting out. Probably might not be the best idea to start with something that's totally overly saturated. Or maybe do that is in conjunction with, but really keep your eyes peeled for the thing that everybody's gravitating towards.

Starting point is 00:46:26 Because it does, it makes a difference when timing all lines up, you know, your first to market, you have a good message, people will find you a lot easier that way, so just something to consider. I'll tell you what's really, what really trips me out, by the way, that seems to be my phrase now, people have told me that, what it means, trips me out. Apparently I say that seems to be my phrase now people have told me that What it means trips me out apparently I say that a lot you already stole My wheelhouse when we first started fucking a this guy now is my wheelhouse now he's taking my saying

Starting point is 00:46:55 We're still trying to find mine. I was the one that first said that anyway You know what really trips me out now is that the celebrities of tomorrow are all Social media. Oh yeah. It's no longer like, do you start to see commercials of that like, like, do internet, star, so and so and then you're like, what? Yeah, my kids have, my kids, you couldn't, they don't know TV stars or movie stars too much, but they definitely know social media stars.

Starting point is 00:47:21 You go to fitness, you guys go to fitness conventions, right? Yeah, yeah. Like the Olympian also. Yeah the who have the long lines times? Physic guys. Yeah, there's reds. When you see someone like you're slow. Yeah, right. Right. Sure. Shout out to him and Joe down. You're going to get a picture for the grand team dynamite. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. I mean, conquer that was a I remember I remember that that's a's it. I mean, that was a, I remember, I remember that. That's a trip dude.

Starting point is 00:47:46 That was like four or overnight. Four or five years ago, I was at Olympia and I went out there by myself. It was like we were barely starting like any social media stuff. We hadn't even really kicked off Mind Pump and I was already kind of feeling out the industry and seeing who's moving, who's doing what. And I was at Olympia and I remember like,

Starting point is 00:48:05 that was actually the first time I had seen. I don't know if you guys remember me taking a picture of the banner of Joey Swole. Yeah, I don't know if you guys are gonna trip out. And that's like, Rish Pion. But she Pion was gonna say that. Oh my god, I'm like, dude, there's literally Ronnie Coleman and Jay Culler over here

Starting point is 00:48:20 and nobody's talking to them. They're like, there's two people in line to talk to them and fucking Joey Swole has a fucking line out the door. I was like, this is crazy. And this guy is, all he's done is done something on Instagram. You know, they, who's the five, who's the five percent guy at the five percent? That's Ristriya.

Starting point is 00:48:37 Yeah, Ristriya Piana. That's right. Yeah. At the body power in England. Big in the other expose. Yeah. The cues, man. Like days and days. Are you not stopped cues? Like I'm talking talking they never ended. How big lines. How big lines of people.

Starting point is 00:48:48 How big is the fitness world out there in the UK and Australia? Is it big? Huge yeah. Yeah. I think it's a global thing now but in Westernized countries now I think it's just expanding fast but Australia and comparison to Britain. There were a lot more there were a lot more serious about their training out there especially where I live in East and Australia and Australia. Yeah, for sure They're more they're kind of a bit more ahead of the game a little bit more ahead of the game Into what they know when nutrition and just generally they're a bit more educated when it comes to health and fitness out there But at the same time because the fitness industry is saturated with Information which isn't really correct a lot of them are brainwashed with the wrong concepts

Starting point is 00:49:23 But can comparison to the UK, there was step ahead. It's the weather and stuff as well. All these things play a part. Beautiful. Yeah, I mean, there's beaches everywhere. Where does it beach? You have your top off and it's vanity.

Starting point is 00:49:34 It comes down to vanity a lot. You were saying, not so much about health. You were saying earlier off air that there's even guys are having challenges with their insecurities. Sure, yeah, the northern, over the bridge in northern Sydney, there's, it's actually a bit of an epidemic now where, you read about on the paper where there's guys like,

Starting point is 00:49:51 committing suicide and stuff, younger guys. You're shitting me. From the age of 15 to about 18, I think. Why? Why? It's, I think it does come down to like, what would it be? Body image, body image and stuff like that. Wow, and these are guys, these are like disorders,

Starting point is 00:50:05 yeah, and guys, which is actually more popular than women having those issues in the Northern side of Sydney. You know, it's interesting about that. So I actually speculated this with my girlfriend not that long ago, where I was talking about how historically it's been women who have had to deal with the brunt of this Advertising in terms of you know, you need to look a certain way and it really because it started with fashion

Starting point is 00:50:31 When it came with clothes and whatever and women need to look a certain way and bathing suits and all that stuff and diet pills and You're seeing a lot more of it now go towards man that not more than women But a lot more than it was historically social media man, not more than women, but a lot more than it was historically. Social media is going to be the most important. And so now you're seeing more and more of these problems show up with men, which you didn't really deal with so much. Even when I was a kid, that's crazy that you're seeing. It's like you say when people scroll in through, you know, say people

Starting point is 00:50:58 scroll in through and like in pictures on Instagram. A lot of people just scroll in through and compare themselves to other people, which then just makes multiplies these issues. You know, I mean, it's not going to be any better. So how do you, how do you guys deal with it? Because you're both pretty fit, you know, good looking guys or whatever. How do you guys deal with that? Did you guys get into fitness because you felt like that about yourself or was it with me? Well, going into fitness, from playing sport really. So it wasn't about body image at that time, but I definitely escalated over the years, as gradually go worse myself as well,

Starting point is 00:51:29 with self-esteem, you know, so I think finding you going to see what I'm going to say with a coach, so that's coaching as I said downhill, but I'm comparing myself to Martin sometimes, and I'm like, you know, he's a WBFF pro, and that's difficult for me as well, you know, lining up next to him on the beach, because he's on another level to me, I'm comparing myself to Martin sometimes, and I'm like, he's a WBFF pro, and that's difficult for me as well, lining up next to him on the beach because he's on another level to me. I see that. I'm just gonna be excited.

Starting point is 00:51:51 He's great genetics, you know, and I just accept that, and I'm work towards my own body goals, and body images much better. But I found that difficult as well. I'm blushing, now I may just stop it. Sorry. Hold on.

Starting point is 00:52:02 Now, you guys have been traveling through the US, doing some work, doing some vacation, and stuff like that. Good looking guys, you got an accent. That's gotta be a magnet. Slant. I can't even imagine. You gotta be slant. I wring on my fingers.

Starting point is 00:52:15 Oh, that's gotta do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Rings of power. He's just being, he's just being me to the business. I mean, something I rule on them. You know, that's a really good point point though, because I remember being a personal trainer and one of the things I struggled with was, I always got really frustrated that I thought,

Starting point is 00:52:31 man, I have the knowledge, I work out hard. Why the fuck can I not look like the magazine cover? Like, why can't I get to that point? And, you know, really, when I talk to clients and I help them when they give me their goals, right? Like I think part of your job is really helping them understand what that really looks like because there's so much bullshit out there

Starting point is 00:52:53 with magazines and now social media that most of us, including ourselves, can get a very distorted view of what healthy fit and a realistic body type to maintain, while you have other goals in your life, because let me tell you, being stage ready and building a fucking massive business, the same time is fucking difficult.

Starting point is 00:53:16 I tell them the same, at least mate, Jesus. I tell them they don't know if difficult it is to get to that stage as well. They think it's easy to get down to those body fat levels. Like I'd love to do what you do and I want to do your training and diet plan and I'm like, he's a lot of time. I love different goals in mind.

Starting point is 00:53:30 You feel drawn, you feel tired, and like of energy, your libido is low. Right. Why do you want to be like that? Same as me though with the training, it was always been active as well. So I've always played sports like rugby and whatever else when I was younger.

Starting point is 00:53:41 So getting into training then, I think it was something similar to what Sal said, it is like obviously when you're younger, 15, 16, you want the women at that point, you want it, you start to kind of chase women or whatever. And then obviously play in rugby as well, I wanted to be a bit bigger for that. And then I just loved it and just kind of kept it going,

Starting point is 00:53:59 kept them momentum. And I've never stopped really for like the 15 years or whatever when it comes to lifting weights. But yeah, that's it. When people who come into it now as, you know, from scratch, and you've got social media to compete with and they compare themselves to other people, you know, it's just trying to lay it out to them that it doesn't happen overnight and you've got to eat right and all the other elements that come into it is not just what you do in the gym, it's the

Starting point is 00:54:24 lifestyle and stuff. Mark, when would you say you do in the gym, it's the lifestyle and stuff. Mark, where would you say you were in the worst shape of your life? Worse shape. Right now, I think after this week, we've been invocations. No, a worst shape. Ah, a worst shape in my life. It was actually had a little rebounds after shows before. I won't go into that.

Starting point is 00:54:38 We had a lot of days when we were binge eating badly. I was going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can actually go into the relationship with food, I mean, with the competitions and stuff. After the first few shows, I then I rebounded afterwards, which is quite a common thing. But one time, it was like a roundabout Christmas time. So I had a show in like November.

Starting point is 00:54:55 And then I had about, it was at the end of November, I had about three weeks, actually, up until past Christmas, there was pretty much a month of just destructive really. I was training maybe two or three times a week, half a session, and I was just eating rubbish food for about a month solid. That was part of the worst shape I've gotten. But that, you know, I pulled it back fast.

Starting point is 00:55:12 And if it wasn't like I left it for, you know, longer than a month or anything, or done any permanent damage, touch woods and one of its havelism. So do you realize, or good? Do you realize there's a growing epidemic right now with that with these people because of Instagram because of social, I shouldn't say because of it, but one of the factors that plays into this, I think, is it's very popular now.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Men's physique and women's bikini, these categories are exploding and everybody's wanting to get diet down for a show. It's becoming a very popular goal that people have. Hey, you know what? I believe I can do that one day. I want to and they set this goal to do that with just that it's not something they want as to be a part of their life forever. It's just I want to prove to myself I can get that kind of shape. And so they're hiring these coaches that are helping them get stage ready, which are starving

Starting point is 00:56:00 their bodies and training them like shit. And then they go into the get down to the leanest they've ever been because they've been starved for eight, 10 weeks for a show. And they come out of it and they rebound like a mother flutter and they go on this huge car. On like 28 pounds. Oh yeah. It happens all the time.

Starting point is 00:56:18 It's such a common thing. I mean, most people do it. But like you said, people don't go into these shows. Well, firstly, don't go to the shows into these competitions for the right reasons. A lot of people do do it for insecurities, maybe deep down one of the reasons I then might have been related to that. I can't say, directly, it was, but a lot of people do do it for the wrong reasons without realizing it. They're making things worse because they want to do it to make themselves feel better about themselves. Sometimes it doesn't always happen like that, it doesn't add. You know what it is when you do a show, you know. Sometimes you

Starting point is 00:56:46 don't get the place you want. You go in, you know, really confident, you don't get where you want to get, you put your heart and soul into it, you rebound afterwards. Then you've got all this emotional kind of destruction, or you call it the symptom eruption, or whatever it is. You've got that to deal with then afterwards, and yeah, it can be about outcomes. Yeah, one of the most powerful phrases that I ever used as a personal trainer with clients is many times people would hire me and it asked them why. I'd always ask why, so that, you know, what are your goals? I want to lose 30 pounds, I want to whatever, you know, build muscle and it asks why, why, why, why, and it usually would come down to, well, if I lose, you know, 30 pounds, then I'll be happy. Usually would

Starting point is 00:57:27 break down, oh, it would break down to that. And I would always tell them, it was a very powerful effective phrase that I use for a few years where I tell them, well, you can't lose weight to get happy. You have to get happy to lose weight. So it's something, it's the goal that you think you're going to get to and that's's gonna change you and make you feel so amazing, it never happens, you've gotta find that before you actually start to go for that goal. If you're looking for long-term real success because the people who seek happiness

Starting point is 00:57:55 out of just changing their body in these dramatic ways end up finding at the end of that, number one, their perception of the self so skewed that they never reach what they think that they need to look. And they find that there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And at that point, they also, what ends up happening because they become so fixated on that,

Starting point is 00:58:16 they go about it the wrong way. And then the motivation's so bad. Yeah, their motivation's so wrong, they're so driven by the number coming off on the scale that they go about it in all the wrong ways, which ends up just making it worse for them. So even if they go all the way through and actually achieve that goal, they look back at the journey and they're like, fuck that. I'd rather be 20 pounds heavier, eating the way I was eating, not having to do punishing myself like that every single

Starting point is 00:58:40 day in the gym. Like, I was happier. And then you get this message. I just saw this the other day on, I think it was Facebook, it was this young lady who competed in bikinis she should get herself real tiny and just emaciated. And then there was a picture of her next to it, now today and she's much heavier, probably a little heavier than she should be. I'd say probably about 15 pounds overweight,

Starting point is 00:59:04 overweight or she should be in terms of her health. And then the title of it is, I'm so happy now, I never wanna do what I did before, and this is the way I'm always gonna be, type of deal. And now she's attached herself to that. It's gotten, I went so bad in one direction that then people start to think to themselves, well the only way now I'm gonna be happy

Starting point is 00:59:22 is if I don't even think about my health, if I don't think, and that's what she said, basically basically she eats whatever she wants, she isn't active because that's how she's like- That's what I'm talking about in it. Exactly. And the problem with that is she's remembering how miserable it was before and thinking this is better than that but there is a better place and the better place is when you find that health, when you find the true motivations when you really take care of yourself,

Starting point is 00:59:45 the side effect of that for a lot of people is they look fantastic. But if you try to do it for the look, and that's your sole motivation, you're not gonna find it. You can have the abs and be miserable. For sure, yeah. I've been there.

Starting point is 00:59:56 I mean, when I look back at my relationship with food, the real quick, as you were saying then, about people attaching, I just wanna go into quickly, what I've experienced over the last few years, the first few kind of competitions I've done, didn't really have, I probably didn't have the knowledge Adam had going into it,

Starting point is 01:00:11 I didn't really have that much of a good knowledge on nutrition. And I basically built up this, it's a bit of an eating disorder, essentially, where I would do a show, rebound for a bit. And I'd probably just write the whole week off afterwards then where I just, I wouldn't eat rubbish, non-stop day in, day out for a week. And I'd probably just write the whole week off afterwards, then where I just, I wouldn't eat rubbish, non-stop day and day out for a week,

Starting point is 01:00:27 but it would be pretty much a whole week of just drop my guard. And then what I would do then, when I would be back on it as such, I would be looking back, it would just be like depriving myself of loads of different nutrients because I'd be eating the same foods

Starting point is 01:00:39 pretty much day and day out, Monday to Friday, right? For example, I would eat my salmon, my day, chicken, chicken, bare some broccoli, you know it, and that's pretty much it. Maybe one or two other things. And then I get to the weekend and be like, okay, you know, I've eaten really healthy all a week, which in reality, I had, I'd eaten the same foods all week, I'd eaten some good foods, but missing out on a lot of nutrients. And then I would kind of binge eat then. I would like, I would have one bad thing, okay, I wouldn't miss. And then it would turn

Starting point is 01:01:03 into a whole weekend. And that one on for about a solid year before starting this thing. So, you joined you in most of those weekends? You joined me, yeah, you helped me out. You helped me out, man, we should have recorded. There's one which we are saying we should have been in maybe 20, 30,000 calories. But in the 20th for hours, mate.

Starting point is 01:01:18 Oh, you didn't what? Oh, mate, we should have recorded it. I was actually going into a show myself at the time. You then two or three of any of yourself? Yeah, I then two myself. And it was the end of the British finals. And I think when you, I was expecting them to win. And in place.

Starting point is 01:01:37 So, so, so, so then when he got off stage, I was like, fuck this. You didn't place. I'm not going to do the show through in the tower. I started spreading peanut butter on my mouth but no chocolate rice cakes escalator from there so take it for what we have you know it's funny you don't know if you go let's tell you what we have it's funny you say that I got you guys should have recorded it because I find it very fascinating right now to see those are some of the most viral or you know most or most shared videos right now is

Starting point is 01:02:05 promote it. These food challenges. There is a ton of these 10,000 calories, 20,000 calories. In fact, some of these guys and girls have some of the largest following right now and it's a very hot trend on YouTube and I find it very fascinating how we as in, I mean, everybody a big popular, big part of the population is drawn to seeing this even myself could not help but watch it to see what does this motherfucker eat to get to 20,000 calories I'm interested. Yeah sure. And so it's fascinating and it makes me wonder what that what that's going to do you know and

Starting point is 01:02:41 what what's your channel dedicated to that now You can watch people eat food apparently on YouTube. Oh yeah. Only that's the new channel. I think people worldwide are so emotionally attached to food that, that kind of thing is just like gold. It's an awesome, you know, a big YouTube is now anyway. People don't really watch a great deal of TV and I says Netflix.

Starting point is 01:02:58 Right. So it's like, okay, yeah, food. Let's tune into that. There's that one page. Who's that one guy? Remember I got into it with him because I got so angry when I first saw him. He has this page where he,

Starting point is 01:03:08 he, he, this is what he does. He promotes intermittent fasting. So he's like, this is how I, this is how I stay lean. Are you intermittent fast and then he should? He should,

Starting point is 01:03:16 yeah, and then he makes like these pizzas with like cereal and, you know, cereal and, you know, doughnuts on it and top ramen. The grossest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life and he'll smash this whole thing and it'll be like five, six thousand calories and he's like, but I got abs. The problem is he's lean, right?

Starting point is 01:03:33 So people are gonna see that. You can get away with it. What's going on inside his body, the boys, and what's happening with the get-flow? Yeah, right. Oh, he must have the most terrible shit. No, it's crazy to see where all this stuff is going. But bringing it all the way back to building your business, the most terrible shit. No, it's crazy to see where all this stuff is going. But you know,

Starting point is 01:03:45 bringing it all the way back to building your business, I think if you're really trying to scale a business beyond, you know, being because you guys are full. I mean, you guys are, you guys have already experienced that when it feels like to run eight to ten clients every single day. And you do, you get tapped out. And if you still are looking for more, because some people, I know I have a buddy who's been doing that for years and years and years and he's very comfortable, he makes good money, he loves it, he loves his training clients, no desire to scale out of that. But those that are looking to scale beyond that and they want more, 100% you've got to be thinking how you can do that through different social media platforms

Starting point is 01:04:25 because it will be the future. It's here already and it's soon it'll be a necessity, right? So the sooner you start figuring that out, to me, if you're an entrepreneur at all in any industry, it's a must. And you're starting to see this more and more companies. And it's a great time to be trying to figure it out because nobody has it really truly mastered.

Starting point is 01:04:48 I feel like I don't think there's, I think there's some companies that are doing a lot of things well. But I think there is lots of opportunity to evolve it. And like Sal said, everything becoming free one day, I foresee that this model goes that direction when everything's all put into place because then you could potentially do that. Once you build the large enough network, you can provide a lot of really cool shit for

Starting point is 01:05:12 free. So having that mentality of what can I provide to others of value and trying to progress that as fast as you possibly can. I'll tell you when the spirit transparency, the direction that mind pump is gonna be going, in the future, I don't know if it's necessarily the close future, but is gonna be placing our focus on training trainers and teaching fitness professionals

Starting point is 01:05:37 how they can build sustainable six figure businesses in fitness, and that's gonna be a part of it.'s going to be a part of it. It has to be a part of it. That's such a big part of business. But there's other pieces too. What are some things you guys would want to learn from, or do you think that would should be covered and something like that, just to pick your brains a little bit, because you both still trainers. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so that's the, I'll be straight up. So for me, where I kind of need to step my game up is the business side of it.

Starting point is 01:06:04 So I've got the work ethic. I've built up a good following. Only, obviously, the last year or so, I've really been focusing on trying to build a bit of an online empire. I have my website, a really good website put in place probably about two years ago. I started doing the online coaching as I mentioned earlier. As you say, unless you scale it properly where you've put the planning into it in terms of the dealing with,

Starting point is 01:06:28 because you're doing personal training on top of that, don't forget, so it's finding, it's managing your time essentially. But your time management would be a good one. Also with the business side of it, I think just the social media side of it really, because obviously you guys are experiencing and learning a lot now along the roads when it comes to that side of it. I think just the social media side of it really. Because obviously you guys are experiencing and learning a lot now along the roads when it comes to that side of it. So just by what Adam said earlier in terms of the types of followers you were

Starting point is 01:06:51 attracting and what content you put out there, you given enough free content and linking stuff up to the social media is really important as we've been talking about. Excellent. I'm glad we're on track then. Yeah. Beautiful. Well guys, thanks. Thanks for coming down. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.. We appreciate it. You know some experience. Absolutely great. Be an on the man. Check this out Go to go to YouTube check out mine pump TV We drop a new video every single day subscribe to our channel also You can check us out on Instagram at mine pump media and we off personal pages Mine is mine pump sal Adam is mine pump Adam Justin's mine pump Justin and Doug is mine pump Doug Thank, atom is mind pump, atom, Justin's mind pump, Justin, and Doug is

Starting point is 01:07:25 mind pump, Doug. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 598: Building Your Fitness Business with Martin Silva & Andrew Bond [Plus Special Announcement!]

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