Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 707: Jordan Harbinger of the Jordan Harbinger Show

Episode Date: February 15, 2018

Jordan Harbinger (former host of the Art of Charm) is going through a major life transition and it has been challenging to say the least. Sal, Adam and Justin dive deep with Jordan on the topic of how to manage mindset when going through a rough patch in life. For anyone who has struggled with uncertainty and self-doubt, Jordan's story will inspire you to press onward. Jordan is a real pro in the podcast world and a master interviewer. You can find his new show, The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) and other podcasting apps. Subscribe and give Jordan a 5 star review there. “You guys were on a journey,” Jordan recalls the first time he met the guys. (3:50) “Going through the most stressful time in my life right now, by the way this is going.” He discusses his current transition period/biggest fears, separating from the Art of Charm. (8:30) Focus on the small wins. The guys get very real with Jordan about being the last person to be excited about his new venture. (19:00) Being interviewed by someone else is much underrated. Jordan talks about the art of being interviewed vs. being the interviewee. (23:30) The show and the business grew apart. How the old show didn’t make sense to him anymore and how his new one will be pulling wisdom out of his guests. (29:00) Be vulnerable. What are Jordan’s tips for being a great interviewer? (33:30) My duty is to the person that is listening. He gives an example of calling a guest out when things feel staged and the guys share personal stories of their own. (37:40) Jordan explains how he will monetize the new business. (45:00) “I feel like a crazy person.” Ego is the enemy. He talks about the stress and emotions he is currently going through. (46:41) Getting out of his house has been his saving grace. What he doing for self-care during this process? (58:40) Adaptogens recommended by Dr. Sal (1:07:17) Belly breathing (1:16:00) Fasting (1:17:00) Life purpose is to help people grow. He explains his higher purpose with what he is doing. (1:23:50) Links/Products Mentioned: Dirty Money | Netflix Official Site Ep 595-Joe DeSena - Mind Pump Media General Stanley McChrystal | New Rules of Engagement (Episode 573) Ep 695-Aubrey Marcus - Mind Pump Media Stress, Food, and Inflammation: Psychoneuroimmunology and Nutrition at the Cutting Edge A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose - Eckhart Tolle (book) Ashwagandha Stress Reduction, Neural Protection, and a Lot More from an Ancient Herb Method for reducing daily stress and anxiety in adults Four Sigmatic (MP Official Sponsor) Use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products onPoint Tactical Urban Escape and Evasion - The Bulletproof Blog Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Jordan Harbinger (@jordanharbinger)  Instagram The Jordan Harbinger Show by Jordan Harbinger jordanharbinger.com  Email address Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfield)  Twitter Joe De Sena (@realJoeDesena)  Twitter ashton kutcher (@aplusk)  Twitter DR. SHAQUILLE O'NEAL Ed.D. (@shaq)  Instagram Stanley A. McChrystal Aubrey Marcus (@aubreymarcus) Instagram Frank Sesno Eckhart Tolle (@EckhartTolle)  Twitter Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Prime Pro, which shows you how to self assess and correct muscle recruitment patterns that cause pain and impede performance and gains. Get it at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. $20 Off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) 3. Free shipping on orders of $49 or more You insure your car but do you insure YOU? If you don’t, and you are the primary breadwinner, you will likely leave your loved ones facing hardship and struggle if you die (harsh reality). Perhaps you think life insurance is expensive, but if you are fit and healthy, you can qualify for approved rates that are truly inexpensive and affordable. To find out if you qualify for the best rates in the industry, go get a quote at www.HealthIQ.com/mindpump Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Get Organifi, certified organic greens, protein, probiotics, etc at www.organifi.com Use the code “mindpump” for 20% off. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Also includes 20% if you purchase! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Jordan Harbinger has to be one of my favorite people. Oh, he's a great guy. One of my absolute favorite people. Well, I have, like, there's a, he holds a little special part in my heart because of the way he treated us so early on when we first started podcasting

So I have so much respect admiration for the guy. I'm he's one of the best Podcasters in the podcast world like one of the best all the best interviewers At the time when we first met him he was hosting the art of charm He has now split off from them and has his own podcast But he was so gracious to us way back when he was massive and we were small. And just always been nice to us. It's the Jeff goes a long way. It's the Jordan Harbinger show now and there's no doubt in my mind that guys gonna, you

know, be huge. I think it was great. Yeah. If you got a very loyal fan base. If you never listen to Jordan interview people or podcast, you are missing out. I mean, what he's going through right now, and what I love about Jordan is that he's open enough to be vulnerable on the show. Because it's what he's going through is extremely stressful. Could you imagine building a multi, I mean, I can.

It's obviously this is something that could technically happen to us, right? We're all, if we all fucking broke off and went different directions. And I mean, to build something as big as art of charm. It's not a joke, bro. It would never happen, right? as big as art of charm. Yeah, right. It would never have to. We don't have too much love for each other.

But to have built something as big as art of charm, I mean, this is a huge business. There's, they have a ton of employees, they got a ton of different revenue streams. And for it all to literally be pretty much ripped from out from underneath him, I mean, I couldn't, that's gotta be so fucking, I mean, he says it in the episode, it's the most stressful, scariest,

he's never experienced anything like this. Oh, multiple times, he almost cried in the episode. I don't know if you guys looked over at him. We got into some topics that hit him that was just like, you could tell he's very emotional and vulnerable. No, it's it. You can just feel that, I think. And there's a lot of useful information in this episode.

If you are going through a stressful time, or building a business, building a business, like if you wanna know about the skills, about podcasting, about how to, you know, emeliorate stress, like we talk about a lot of that in this episode. And it's extremely entertaining. We are interviewing a great podcaster,

which means the conversation is awesome. Always, and he has always got great stories, great energy, so it was a fun podcast, even though it was over like pre-serious topics. Now, if you're a hardcore mind pump fan and you wanna do us a favor, do this. Go to the Jordan Harbinger show. That's his podcast.

Check it out. If you'd like it, subscribe. We wanna send people over there because the guy's fucking awesome. He's got a great show. We think he brings a lot of value, but he's also a good friend of ours. Go check it out. We also mentioned one of our sponsors because there was a time in the episode where South start was talking about different types of herbs that you can use and you got

into some of the four-sigmatic products. Yeah, so well, four-sigmatic is one of our sponsors. Some of the things that you could use for stress are the chaga and the cordiseps may actually help you as well. Now we are sponsored, so it's fourcmatic.com, for slash Mind Pump and then enter the code Mind Pump and you get a discount. Also check out Jordan Harbinger on his show, The Jordan Harbinger Show and you can find him on Instagram at Jordan and his last name is spelled H-A-R-B-I-N-G-E-R. So without any further ado, here we are talking to our good friend, Jordan Harbinger.

I'm trying to remember when the last time that we were all together was, it's been a while. You stopped by at night, what were we doing that night when you came by here? That was the last time I think you came by here, right? You guys, we had dinner. Oh, that was before. That was the first time.

Yeah, when we met the first time, we had dinner. Oh, that was before. That was the first time. Yeah, when we met the first time, we had dinner with Ben Greenfield. All right. And am I allowed to say that you guys were on a journey that evening? Okay. Was that me? You're allowed to say your one.

Yeah, you could say, yeah, that's the thing. You were on a journey that evening. And my wife and I were there, and this is the first time I ever met you guys. So normal was you guys like that. And you're already like this. So it was kinda, my wife was like, these guys are so funny, man.

You guys, you guys, you should hang out with these guys more. And I remember not hanging out with you guys enough because I was going through so much stress, which is, you know, kind of coming to a head now, which is one of the reasons that we're in this room again. Right. Right. Yeah. Dude, I'm a really the first time we met, I was, you know, first we hit it off with Ben first, Ben was the one who introduced us to you. We all had dinner. You know, and I don't know if we all consider ourselves people, people people or what it is, but when you when you meet somebody, you can just,

I have a really good judge their character. And I remember after we all hung out, like all of us said, like, dude, that's a really cool dude, a very secure due too, because something that I have found in this space, much like every other space that I've been a part of in business is people become very like territorial or insecure about giving information. Sterecity mindset. Yeah, very scary city mindset. And you were actually one of the first people that was in this space and have been doing it for a long time, been very successful at it.

That was like just an open book. Yeah, open about your business, and everything given us insights. We haven't got that from a lot of you. You helped us out a lot, and you answered questions for us and we were very honest. So we will always be indebted to you. Absolutely.

Because that was early on, you know, it was how long ago was it? Oh, bro, this was before we never had a sponsor. So we didn't even know be indebted to you because that was early on you know Was it was how long ago was it oh, bro? This was before we never had a sponsor so we didn't even know what to fucking expect for sponsorships or what we should be looking for Never looked into potentially doing networks with each other. We didn't know what would be considered good downloads or not down like So many questions that I remember having for you and you just literally kind of laid everything out And I believe that we're like that. I mean, you know I'm an open book. You ask me anything about the business, I'll share it.

We were talking just the other day, and I'm real quick to tell you all that information because I think it's really funny and unfortunate when people kind of hoard info like that, you know. Yeah, I found that when I first started the business, my old business, the art of charm, before all of this drama went down that we'll get into, I guess, in a bit,

that people were, there were some people that were really open about everything, but a lot of folks were kind of cagey or secretly competitive. And I realized, oh, these people aren't really, they're not really cheering for us. They're kind of like, oh yeah, here's this opportunity that I might give you that sort of like does this other thing for me,

this introduction that makes me look good, but really, you know, it's kind of, it was, it was always sort of this like frenemy or caging-ness and I always thought this is so uncomfortable because now I don't know who I can believe or trust or open up to. So I just decided early on like a decade ago, maybe slightly less, that the best thing to do is to be open and vulnerable wherever you can. And then some people will be really uncomfortable with that. And you just kind of won't click with them. And other people will be like, oh good, we can have real talk. And those people become your friends.

That's right. The way I look at it is we have two choices that we make in life and business and whatever. And the two choices are be truthful, honest, and open. And the other one is to be calculated and sneaky and not honest. And I think sometimes, not always, but sometimes being sneaky might protect you. But I also believe that more often than not, that being truthful and honest one is going to result in a better circumstance or better results. I think that that's more often than not the case.

And so I'm going to choose that plus. You remember when you were a kid and you would have a friend and you'd make up a little story. And then, you know, a couple days later, you gotta make up another story, backup that story. And then next thing you know, it's all bullshit. Like everything's a lie and it's a terrible way to live. And I never wanna do that. I learned my lesson a couple times

and I was a kid doing that with friends. Where they come over my house and like, hey, where's that motorcycle you ride all the time? You know, I'm like, oh, show me those crotting moves. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought you were a black belt. I noticed some shit like that. So, it's like, you know, be honest.

And you know what? This carries over into lots of things. Carries over and it ends up, and I don't do this because I know it's gonna pay me back, but it has every single time. And now you're in your situation now, and now you can call upon friends like us and we'll fucking jump with the opportunity

to have you on the show and talk about certain things and help you out. Yeah, I can't even tell you guys. First of all, thank you for the opportunity to come back, of course. But I gotta tell you, one of the, there's been a lot of gifts that have come out of this particularly stressful situation

but I feel like maybe we should give a brief overview of what we've done. Yeah, I mean, I know right now everyone's sitting on pins and needles because if you were an art of charm fans, we have a lot of mind public centers that are also big art of charm fans. And everyone has been, it came, that's why I reached out to you. I said, bro, what's going on with you over there? And you told me a couple of forum right?

To post about him and I were talking maybe a couple of months ago and Jordan's like, yeah, we got to get cut up. I got so much going on, bro. It's crazy over here. We'll get caught up. And so I just kind of gave him cut up. I got so much going on, bro. It's crazy over here. We'll get cut up. And so I just kind of gave him a space because I know he's going through a ton. And then also my forum started talking about art of charm.

And like, what the fuck's going on there? And so I sent a message to you like, dude, what's up? This my forum is talking about your business now. What you're saying? So what the fuck is going on? So I'm splitting from the art of charm. And we're still in the middle of this whole split. And it's so I can say very little about that without I don't want to do any derailing of

whatever my app. Right. But you're in legal issues right? So people can understand that right now. Yeah, this is a big tightrope. Yeah, I'm not like, oh, it's private. I am this legal stuff. I can't I just don't want to I don't want it. I don't like it. I'm not like, oh, it's private. There's legal stuff. I just don't want to damage the art of charm as a business. I got to be careful with that stuff. But what happened was I separated from the company and it did not. It was more sudden for me than I would have liked. I'll put it that way. So I am in a situation now where I don't know what's going to shake out from that particular

split. I do have the Jordan Harbinger show where I interview people and I continue largely what I learned through interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people and I want to keep doing a show because I love doing shows and I love talking with people and it's all about the conversation. But yeah, I'm going through the most stressful time of my life right now as a result of the way that this is going. And I'm in a situation where I built the show, the Art of Charm Podcast, the old show,

I built that over 11 years. And now I'm looking, and our business was killing it. It was doing so well. Everything was working really great. And now I'm looking at starting over from scratch with the show. And it's so intimidating, it's daunting, it's scary. And-

What are your biggest fears about it? You know, my biggest fears, it's so funny because people are like, oh, don't worry. You know, you're not gonna lose your house and I'm like, no, okay, yeah, I know that. And it's like, oh, no, you still have your health. I'm like, no, okay, yeah, I know that. And it's like, oh, no, you still have your health. I'm like, okay, definitely, I got that. And so it's not really, I don't have the same fears

that a lot of these other people are suggesting. I guess like the fears they would have. I'm so much less worried about income paying the mortgage. Like those are concerns, but I'm not like, oh my God, you know, I've got that Bitcoin. But I also like, maybe now that's not a really thing. I'm just saying. Like a month ago, it's like, it's a uptrend.

I'm gonna think I was like, I got Bitcoin. Now I'm like, if I can Bitcoin. So, no, but I mean, I've got, you know, I have like an emergency fund, stuff like that. So I'm, I'm less worried about that, but I look and I just think how the hell am I gonna reach all of those old AOC fans and all of the people that would like to listen to the Jordan Harbinger Show? and I just think how the hell am I gonna reach all of those old AOC fans and all of the people that would like to listen

to the Jordan Harbinger Show? How the hell am I gonna reach all those people now? I don't know how to do that. So my, and I remember, I've gone on hundreds of other shows to get those people to find us. The word of mouth was going for a decade on that show. How the fuck am I gonna rebuild that, man? It's like looking at a mountain.

You might be, so you're comparing, I think what you're doing is you're thinking about all the hard work and effort and time it took to build your first show and you're thinking to yourself, I gotta have to do that all again, but it's not the same at all. It's not the same at all. It's not the same at all. First off, now people know who you are.

The audience is going to hear that you're not on that show anymore. So they're going to be looking for you. So it's a completely, you're starting from a completely, you know what it reminds me of, in fitness, there's this term called muscle memory. And muscle memory is when, let's say I gain 20 pounds of muscle and I do it through you know, six years of hard lifting and diet and dedicated training, everything's just perfect. And then all of a sudden, I have a major injury or something and I just can't work out. I can't

work out at all for six months. I'm a perfect example of this right now. Like I went from being a professional men's physique athlete to back to some of the worst shape I've ever been in in my life right now. And I think what happened. And how fast can you gain it back now, though? Because I'm muscle memory, right? So that's part of why I don't stress,

but I think going back to what he said, what Jordan said was that, I think what I have to do, like I was battling some sort of depression right now with what I'm going through, totally different situation, but similar in this aspect that really what it is that we're battling is our ego. And it's challenging that.

It's like, you know, for 10 years, you're the fucking man. You build something from nothing and you build something fucking bigger than most people ever build their entire life. And now it's been ripped away from you and you're thinking I gotta start out. What you're probably gonna build now is probably gonna be totally different.

Who knows? It'll be different and you're right about the ego thing. I'll tell you right now, the show quality, I was talking with my marketer, my producer, and the other members of the team that are coming with me. And they're like, this is an opportunity. They're all excited.

I'm like the only one that's fucking freaking. Yeah. They're all producer Jason's like, this is great. The marketing team, everybody is an opportunity, they're all excited. I'm like the only one that's fucking freaking great. They're all producer Jason's like, this is great, you know, the marketing team, everybody is jazzed, my wife is like, this is great, you can do whatever you want, you're not constrained by the format, you can do these different types of interviews.

And I'm like, I'm the one that's waking up at 3 a.m. and can't go back to sleep and fucking write that down. Until like a science. And you're exactly, like now I have all of the skills that I developed over the last 11 years. I got a lot of relationships that I've developed over time like this that will help. And so you're right, I don't have to do what I did

in 11 years in a year or two to get back. I have to do the highest leverage activities that have worked over the last two or three years and I have to condense those down and do those in a way that get people to come through. Like losing the back catalog and all those old art of charm episodes is so tragic for me in a way.

It's like losing a freaking beloved pet maybe. I won't say losing a kid. That's obviously way worse. But it's like losing a beloved pet, right? But at the end of the day, what a lot of people have said, which has helped me with this, is that those all exist,

those happen, those guests, those experiences, the conversations that I had with those people, they don't evaporate just because they're not in my RSS feed right now. But to your point, so yes, it's ego, to your all of your points, it's ego in that there's a part of my identity that was so caught up. That is that I am the host of the show, the Jordan Harbanger Show now. But I interview these types of people. I have this audience and they're one of the best audiences in iTunes. They're most affluent. They're the most smartest educated audience in iTunes, which was actually true. I mean, we compared our demographic to NPR and the art of charm Jordan Harbinger show audience was more educated, more afloat than NPR.

And I was like, look at all these smart people that come to listen to these other smart people that I get to talk to and I'm in the middle of this. This is so great. So my identity was just so linked with that. So to start over, it's like, did I lose a piece of who I am? And I feel like anybody who gets fired from any company or loses a job or gets uprooted and has to move or something like that probably feels that sense of loss that's intangible

that has to do with, especially like an athlete, you retire and it's like, am I an athlete anymore or was I this and now I'm just a retired overweight you know, overweight dude who used to play basketball. So there's two things you just highlighted something very interesting. What you're going through, the specifics are very specific to you, but the general, what you're going through is an existential issue. This is an issue that people go through. And so knowing that sometimes makes, I know it makes me feel better when I've gone through certain things. It's like, okay, I have my own specific set of situations,

but what I'm feeling, the suffering of shedding my old self or am I this person who I thought I identified with, this is a human issue. And the second thing is this, who are the people that know you, besides you, because you know yourself better than anybody, but who are the people around you that know you the best? Who are those people? You named a bunch of them, you name your wife, the people you work

with who've come with you, do they know you pretty well? Oh yeah. Okay. And they're all excited. They are. Ever, look. Now, what does that tell you? Everyone has said, and I mean, non-cleashay speaking people who aren't just like patting you on that, everyone has said, this is going to be the best thing that's ever happened

you because you're going gonna be free of the constraints that you had at the old company. You're gonna do the Jordan Harbanger show, which you have ownership over. You're gonna be able to do things the way that you want. Everybody is excited. I seem to be the only one who's like, I like the last guy to get the memo.

In fact, my producer sent me an email this morning because he was like, hey, how you doing? And I was like, I don't know, I woke up at 3.45 and I sleep watching, he goes, okay, I know I've told you this before, we give tough love every week on the show, on feedback Friday, and when people write in, and we give advice and stuff,

and he goes, this is your tough love time. People are gonna start losing fucking respect for you if you keep whining, and you gotta get your game face on, and I was just like, he's right. And my wife was like, yeah dude, you're the only one who's not excited as hell right now and I get it, but like your fans wanna tune into the show, we gotta call this morning.

Someone just, I don't even know, it's a little, like how did he get her phone number? So someone just called and was like, yeah, I found this number in like an email that I had, did it out and it happened to just be my wife's mobile number. And he was just like, I heard what happened and I'm really sorry and I love you guys and I've got this girlfriend because of you and I've got this job because of you. And I was just like, it was incredible for me to hear that.

And so again, I'm like the only person the fans are excited, the fans that know about it are excited. But for me, I have to process this stuff. But I also have to be a leader in the company, and I also have to get my game face on because you can only mope around the house for so long before people are like, are we doing this or are you gonna freaking Netflix on this?

The people closest to you believe in you brother? You know what I'm saying? That's an awesome feeling. This reminds me of some advice that I just gave a good friend and old client of mine that was trying to get back in shape and she was really depressed and down because you know she would just she competed before so she's in great shape and then she got so caught up in work and put on all the weight and she was

just like kind of crying to me saying like mad I'm just so frustrated I set my alarm five times this week and I didn't get up for it for any time and I said you know that I'm gonna give you some advice that now that is totally different than what I would have gave 10, 15 years ago. And that's just because of my experience with people with motivation and self-belief. I said, what you need right now is just some small wins. And I think sometimes, especially when you get a guy

like you who has huge goals that you've already accomplished, and then also when you get knocked the fuck all the way down again. And you're looking all the way at this huge goal. It's like, fuck the, that you've already accomplished, and then also you get knocked the fuck all the way down again. And you're looking all the way at this huge goal. It's like, fuck the, that you're gonna get that. That's just a time, right? This is a matter of time before you're there again and beyond that.

So right now, like focus on the small wins. So I tell her, I said, why are you so concerned about getting back to like, where you were in shape and doing all these things and running this program and just training every day, getting up extra early? I'm like, how about go for a walk for an hour? Like, how about just go do one thing,

and then have you done that since months? And she's like, no, I'm like, okay, well, set a very small, obtainable goal for you and get yourself some wins. Get some wins, are heading you in the right direction to get where you need to be. And I feel like this is the same thing, because if you think about it,

just you being on our show right now, if you were to rewind your life 13 years ago, would be a huge fucking win. This, yeah, of course. Right, if you were, if you were, you know, the old, you know, Jordan Harbinger who didn't have any followers, any listeners, any like that, and you're hanging out with the Mind Plum guys,

pro, this would be a huge win, but it doesn't seem like that because it's like, I've been so much bigger and better, but so you gotta kind of remind yourself of that, like you are, you are gonna accelerate this business even faster than the other one, because you're already doing things right now that would have taken you years to be able to do before.

It's so true, yeah, of course. And I'm calling, I'll tell you, this shit is this situation is. The gifts that have come out of it and are starting to come out of it. And I know this sounds like woo woo or cliche, but they're so real. I was watching this show called Dirty Money on Netflix,

which is really good, by the way. And they were, you've seen that? Do you see the Payday Loans guy? How the, this guy who does like payday loans, crap business, terrible greed, but he was facing a life sentence and his brother who he'd started the business with, he ended up committing suicide and stuff.

And I felt like real compassion for this guy. And other people were like, yeah, screw this guy. He's a terrible person. Go to jail for life, lose everything on him. And I was like, oh man, I have real compassion. And when I see stories and when I hear other people tell me things, you know what someone says like, oh, I went through it divorce earlier, so I understand.

When, if they told me that a month ago, I'd be like, oh, yeah, sorry to hear that. But now I'm like, I feel it in my deep, deep in my, yeah, it's empathy. It feels like I feel it viscerally in my body when someone's like, yeah, I know you're going through a tough time, my wife's sister passed away, so I'm like, wow, I have no real problems.

Like, oh my God, you know, and I feel almost selfish for feeling Negatively when other people have real real Problems, but I also feel the sense of empathy the sense of compassion that I've never felt before and I appreciate Every single person that writes into by the way my email is new It's Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com because I'm no longer reachable at the art of charm And people are writing in and they're like, oh yeah, immediately found your new show. Like I can't believe I'm sticking with you

and I just, I appreciate that stuff. Whereas before I would go through my email inbox and I'd be like, I'll read that later, I'll read that later and I'll be like, cool. Yeah, Jen, can you help respond to some fans? Cause there's a lot of like fan mail in there. Now when I read that, I'm like, you know what? These are writer dive fans that I can,

like they're the reason that I even care about doing the show is because they're still there. That's awesome. I just have to, it's like I just walked in with a cup full of little ball bearings and just spilled them all over the floor and I can't see because it's dark and I'm trying to collect all of them.

Like that's what I'm looking at right now. It's like where are those show fans? Cause some of them aren't gonna care. They're gonna go, what happened to this art of charm feed? Nothing, there's no new shows. Or like who are these random people doing it? And they're just gonna not care. But there's thousands, tens of thousands, hopefully,

or hundreds of thousands, even better, of people that are like gonna go back into iTunes or their podcast app and search for the Jordan Harbanger show and go, oh good, this is still going. And I've been getting notes from those people constantly and it's really something that literally gets me out of bed in the morning at this point. So since you're a great person, ask a question like this too,

because we have a lot of people that listen, I mean, fuck, since we've started, we must know 10 or 15 fans that have created a podcast now and trying to build a business. So we definitely have a lot of entrepreneurs and people very interested in this process. And you're a great guy who's built something up to something as big as Art of Charm.

It is now literally starting over in a sense and doing that. What are some of the things when you look back now that you did really well in Art of Charm and then things that you're gonna do differently now with your children? With building the show, right? Yes. Because of course, if we get into everything business wise,

I'm like, oh my God, we don't have enough time to list all my mistakes. With the show, I gotta tell you, man, I did hundreds of interviews where I was being interviewed by somebody else. And the first like 30 to 50 taught me how to be interviewed by somebody else, which is an experience that I think is underrated.

Let's talk about that. I think that's a big deal. Sound, I talk about this a lot because we do a lot of individual interviews right now. And it takes a deal. It's a different skill set. Talk about that. It's a different skill set.

So a lot of people think, hey, I can just go on and be interviewed because I'm an expert in some subject matter area. But you all know people that are really good at something like a body builder, and then you get them in front of a microphone, and they're like, you just have to be consistent and work out every day, and make sure you get your macros in.

And just like, good, good, like get this guy out of here. But that could be you, and even if you're interviewing people and having fun conversations on Mind Pump, or the Jordan Harbanger show plug every single day, like you don't necessarily know what it's like when somebody who's maybe unskilled, you've been interviewed by somebody who's unskilled, right? And you're like, oh my God.

And you have to carry it. You have to run the show. You have to go for the show. So you have to, but you have to build that skill set in that confidence to go, oh, this person's done 10 podcasts. I've done a thousand and 10. I literally have to start being more entertaining now or people are gonna tune out.

It's not their fault, they're inexperienced or whatever. Who cares? Or you get another host that's talking over you and you're not telling your own story, which is probably what I'm doing to you guys right now. No, no, no. And like, and you've got to figure out how to modulate that. So I look back and I think, okay,

what I did right was I went on every show that I could and I learned how to be interviewed. But what I did wrong was I did it for years and there was a point at which I would be interviewed by somebody and I would freaking just phone it in, man, because I knew that it was gonna, this show has 200 listeners and I would be like, all right, that means like 20 people

are gonna actually download and play this. So I would just be like checking my email and stuff and I realized at the time, and I didn't even get it at the time, but now I'm like, what the hell is that even doing? You know, I was still stupid. So now when I'm redoing, when I'm restarting, I'm gonna lean into the shows that matter

and have a lot of overlap. I'm still gonna do smaller shows, of course, because I like that experience, but I'm gonna make damn sure that I'm doing things that protect my sanity and my energy levels, because there were days where I would do five or six interviews on other people's shows, and I would look at the needle and not move at all

on the art of charm downloads, and now that I'm doing the Jordan Harbanger show, I'm just like, okay, I can't do volume. I have to go on like the 50 to 100 shows in the next year or so that actually have audience that's going to go, oh, there's that Jordan guy. I used to listen to his show, he's got a new one. I have to do it that way and not just grind everything because there were days where my wife was like,

you're kind of being a dick. And I'm like, sorry, my voice hurts because I just did 40 shows last week. And the total combined listenership of that was like less than one tweet from an influencer. You're right. Right. So you have to be careful with that. And there's there's countless things like that that I think I'm going to have to redo in a different way.

But it's hard to your point earlier, Sal, like you look at everything you did, I look at everything I did for 11 years and I go, oh my God, I gotta redo that. And you're like, no, you're gonna redo the stuff that worked. So I have to do a lot of 2020 hindsight, figure out what worked and remagnetize the audience to come find the new show.

But also, it's hard in your mind to go, hmm, out of the last 11 years, how much of that was like throw us a beginning at the wall and see what sticks and develop skills and blah, blah, blah, blah, versus how much, if we condense everything we have a real plan and we're doing real stuff and the shows are really good, how long is that going to take? And I can't do that math in my head. And that's part of what's making me feel the overwhelm. Is everyone goes, it's the unknown. It's the unknown.

They're like, you're not gonna take 11 years to build it up again and I'm like, okay, but is it gonna be six months or is it gonna be six years? And that's, that scares the shit out of me right now. It's always about the unknown, but so what I would say is focus on the known. You know, being good on shows, making those contacts, you know, interviewing certain guests, you know they work, you just don't know, you're not going to know how much or how fast, but you know things that work. And you're also a black belt now. Like you've been doing this for a while, you're compelling on a podcast. We love having you on because it's going to be a great

episode. And you're right, it's a skill. I mean, I learned a lot, I learned a lot from our guest. Joe Ducino was a guest that we had on. The guy's such a great storyteller. After he left, I was like, okay, I totally am in a change the way I do interviews because that was compelling. And I know everybody that listened, fucking loved listening to the guy and you just end up building a seal.

I wanna talk about your show now, the Jordan Harbinger show, plug. What are you, now that you're free, okay? Now you got your wings or you can spread your wings and do what the fuck you want. What are you gonna do different? Yeah, it's an interesting situation because I never had to think about it until very suddenly and very recently. So what I'm looking at is I still want to stay true to the core demographic of intelligent

conversation with high performers. I think that's very important. And I do still love the whole like call bullshit on things when I don't like it, make people prove their points and things like that. But what I'm looking forward to doing is not having to sell products and training that have nothing to do with my interest and also that have nothing to do with my interest and also that have nothing to do with my conversations.

Because the show and the business really did grow apart in that I would have somebody on the show who's like a street preacher or a comedian who's breaking down nonverbal communication from stage and how he reads an audience or I'd have like shack on. And then it's like, oh, by the way, come to this thing where you learn dating and skills or whatever. And it just, it started to become more and more incongruous

with what I really wanted to do. And that always kind of weighed on me psychologically. The other thing is the brand always had a little twinge of, I don't wanna say embarrassment because it was something we built together, but it didn't make sense for me anymore. And I was having a lot of problems booking certain caliber of guests

because I would have to, I would have to say, the name is the art of charm, but it's not about what you think, and I would get rejected a lot from, like I remember Ashton Kudger was like, I would love to do your show. And then his people were like, what's it called? Oh, we looked at your website and we don't think it's a good fit and I'm like damn it, you know, I heard saying.

So now I get really a chance to like you said spread my wings and do a lot of things differently and so I get to the exciting part is I really do get to keep everything that I really loved unfortunately aside from the audience which I have to rebuild. But I get to keep the conversations, I get to keep delivering awesome stuff, and I get to do it in a way that doesn't have this requirement that I, like, kind of plug stuff that I don't necessarily feel as much a part of anymore.

So rather than thinking about, or excuse me, rather than the theme being charm or whatever in the name, it's interview show. It's like me interviewing people, really interesting people having great conversations, so you don't have to worry about that other. Yeah, I mean, what I wanna do is pull wisdom out of amazing folks.

I wanna pull wisdom out of, like Adam Corolla and Dr. Drew. I want to pull wisdom out of this guys that I had on the show before, like Shaquille O'Neal and General Stanley McChrystal. I love talking with those types of folks. I love delivering these kernels of experience that they've just distilled into awesome rock, solid stuff and teaching that to the Jordan Harbinger show listener base because that's making people better.

That's making people better, not like tips and tricks to amp up your, you know, game or whatever. Like, I don't like that stuff and I'm glad that I don't have to do that. And I'm glad that I get to sort of change direction. And there's a lot, there's a million little things that we get to do that probably make less sense to broadcast it on here, but like my producers excited it just about making different types of tweaks that that we probably wouldn't be able to do before. But the branding really is the change that we're most excited about because we just had so much trouble. And there were show fans that were like, I can't tell my friends about this because they

just get insulted when I tell them they need to listen to a podcast called The Art of Charm. And so now that I have the Jordan Harbanger show, if you can getting a lot of email I can't tell my friends about this because they just get insulted when I tell them they need to listen to a podcast called the Art of Charmin And so now that I have the Jordan Harbanger show if you can get a lot of email that's like, hey, I can finally recommend this To tons of people that were totally not gonna listen before and that that's exciting and has me hopeful. Oh, that's really cool, man Well, shit if I if I told you earlier if I could buy stock in you, I totally would do I appreciate them and I think you're Everybody around you that knows you way better than I do feels the same way. So, I appreciate that.

It feels like it's really gonna bring the passion out again. Now you can pursue a guess in certain people that you are actually interested in. And it's not like you're worried about like this fitting in with your brand and how that can all kind of coordinate. But now people you can actually look out for, pursue and just extract all that awesome information from.

You know, so you do really well, Jordan, I love for you to kind of expand on it, because I think this is something you probably developed, because what I have not done, I've never gone back and listened to really old episodes of you. I don't, don't do that. So let's talk a little bit about the evolution of you as an interviewer. That's a skill. It's a major skill. And a lot of people, even if you have a decent conversation, don't know how to pull those nuggets out of people. What are some of the things that you've learned over the course of your time?

I'm like, how to have a great fucking deep conversation. Yeah. So the first thing that I recommend, and this has nothing, this is not specific just to interviewing people, the first thing is that I've learned is vulnerability. And I know that sounds cliche, but I'll tell you how this works. Because even before I hit record on the Jordan Harbinger show or on any interview, before I hit record,

I always say, hey, just now you're doing and the person's, you know, the gas is like, oh, you know, I'm good, how are you? And I'll actually tell them the truth. I'll say, yeah, actually, I woke up this morning and I had this weird stomach ache. And I realized it was because I didn't eat dinner last night because I was worried about this thing.

And they're like, oh, yeah, you know, I had a similar thing happen. And we'll get into a real conversation right away because I'm not going, oh, how are you this morning? Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. Let's go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, it's fake. And then you say, so, so, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. Let's go fake fake fake fake fake. Yeah, it's fake and then you say,

so, so, where do you shop for clothes and you're like, well, I'm glad you ask me that, right? It just turns into a fake interview, but if I start off by saying, man, what did you eat for breakfast and they go, oh, I didn't eat breakfast and I go, is that a normal thing for you? And they go, no, I just was in a hurry

and I feel a little hungry. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I always feel like crap when I don't eat, we'll just go a little hungry. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I always feel like crap when I don't eat. We'll just go down that road. And then when I say, so when you were in the trenches, literally in Afghanistan and Iraq, you can't eat whenever you want. There must have been days that went by

where you didn't get food. And I remember having this conversation with General McChrystal and he was like, I ate one meal a day if I was lucky. And I said, was that by design or what? And he's like, no, you gotta let your troops eat first and you can't be eating hot soup and bacon in front of them when they have an eaten in 17 hours

and they're eating an MRE maybe if they're lucky in three hours if we don't get sheld or what. And I'm like, this is the beginning of a real conversation. So if you can avoid pleasantries and just get into it, you can cut off the beginning where you're talking about breakfast and then suddenly you're already in the middle of a real conversation. When I first started interviewing and having conversations with people on the podcast, I didn't do that. So when I go back and listen brutally, brutally painful to old, old, old episodes of the art ofm before, you know, like, for years ago. The first half of the show is F and Fluff, man. It's just garbage.

That's what we run into. It's sound bites from the gas tour, like, on my new book, Paleo Superstar. I have on page 73 and you guys are just like, probably going, this is our own fucking fault. Yeah. Yeah. So you let him down the path and now he's just doing it. He's phoning it in.

He's in the sound bites. So I spent a lot of time trying to work through the sound bite thing by exhausting the guest and letting them go through their sound bites and then getting into real conversation. And I found that in real life as well as in interviews, if you just start off by saying, here's what's going on. People will drop all the crap.

When I walked in the door here, you guys said, hey, what's going on, man? You guys had heard a little, through the texting and everything. But what I didn't say, I'm great, what about you? I said, oh man, this is some real shit. And then we just immediately started talking about it. We didn't have to spend 20 minutes.

So how's the new car, how's the life? Oh, you bought a house, that's exciting. Like we didn't do any of that shit. Because it doesn't have any value. It's not real. It's not real. Something that I found that's, that we are getting better out, that was really difficult at first was when we have a guest and we disagree with them or we want to call them

out and they're bullshit. But we refrain from doing it because it's this weird like, you know, when you have a guest in your home and you want to be polite, so you have that same kind of feeling and we're, you know, when you have a guest in your home and you wanna be polite, so you have that same kind of feeling, and we're starting to get to the point now where we're like, well, fuck that, we're interviewing the person. This is something that my listeners are thinking, and I'm thinking it too,

but it's hard, like, how do you get through that? And maybe can you give us an example of a time where you were just calling someone out and it turned into a... Or, yeah, or scared to ask a question or call someone out like a big name person, you know? Yeah, it happens a lot and I'm trying to think of an example but I'm drawn a blank right now but I'll tell you, yes, there's been tons of times where somebody would say something

and the person's like your friend or their well-known person in their field and you're going, oh shit, what do I do right now? And I realized that and it took me probably 10 years to realize this too, my duty is to the person who is listening. And so if somebody comes in and goes, if you buy my water bottle, I'll send a bottle of our herbal weight loss stuff for free.

And like you might be like, oh, this person's a guest on my show, no, the people listening, they fucking trust me to not lead them down a path of bullshit. And they trust you guys to do the same thing. So if somebody comes on and says something and you know it to be not true, your choice should not be, hmm, this is going to be a little disrespectful to this person in their standing in front of me. No, there's a hundred and fifty thousand people or whatever who are standing in front of you virtually going, oh, well, Adam didn't say that that was a bunch of crap.

So maybe they're into it. So maybe it's like a tacit endorsement or something like that. So you have to say, no, you have to go wait a minute. I don't know if that's real or you go wait a minute. You have an herbal weight loss thing. Come on, man. What's the deal? And even worst case scenario, this is never happened.

They could go, how dare you, and they could get up and leave. And your audience will go, damn right. Call that motherfucker out on that, right? Oh, I got you. And yeah, and they'll appreciate you for it. But I'll tell you what has happened. Oh, here's an example. My friend, Christine Hasler, she's a great person,

awesome sort of therapist and coach. And she said something on I showed years ago, and I'm picking on her because I love her, and I know she won't get too mad. She said something like, well, you know, everything is energy, right? And I was like, wait a minute. If you mean in like that physics dictate that, I don't know,

it's like there's a formula that shows that matter is potential and if that's what you mean, then sure, maybe but I'm not a physicist, but if you're talking about like the universe provides and the energy that flows throughout the, everything, then I'm like, no, no, if it can't be measured on a machine, there's no energy here.

You know, what are you talking about? And I made her explain and she's like, oh, I shouldn't know better than to say something like that in front of you. And that's what people expect. Because that's what they're thinking. They're thinking. They're thinking to say that we just had an interview just last week with Aubrey Marcus.

I don't know if you know who I love. Yeah, I love Aubrey. I just talked to him yesterday. I love you, okay. And we were interviewing him. And the first half hour was exactly what we just gave an example of. He's plugging his book, a lot of surface bullshit. All the questions I was asking him, very canned answers.

And then it finally, it takes about 45 minutes. So I just get tired of it. I just start calling it. Like really bro, you're in an open relationship and you mean to tell me you and you work with a bunch of beautiful other women, your girl doesn't ever get fucking jealous that you might be fucking your secretary. Right. Like come on dude, like you can't tell me that bullshit. And so man, the interview changed. It became way more entertaining. Yeah, of course. But it's kind of scary. I'll be the first to, we interviewed him

over a year and a half ago, and we were nowhere near the size. It was a big deal that we were in their house and we were interviewing. So I remember not being afraid to do that. And I remember telling myself going to this interview, like, don't let this happen Adam, don't, and I remember listening, just we come right out the gates,

South kind of asked him a generic question about his book and so with that, and I'm like, fuck, here we go. Here we go again, I'm like, and I'm in my head, I'm listening to the answer, I'm like, I'm not gonna let this happen, right? As soon as I have an opening right here, I'm gonna call some bullshit out, and then the interview turned really good.

So, I mean, it's definitely an art, and it's one that I think even ourself, we're getting better at that skill set. And I think what you said is so true. Our loyalty doesn't lie in this part. The one person that sitting in front of us, my loyal my real loyalty is like you said, the hundreds of thousands that are listening, those are the fucking people that I should be more concerned about. And that's such a great and I will use that now that you've said that I'll go into interviews thinking like, you know what? I want to hire you as a podcast coach.

Yeah, I am. I am a recently available, no figure. I'm available to do that. That's, there might be a market for that actually. I'm sure that there is, I just don't know if I have to create it or if people are like, wait a minute, I hadn't thought about that. I have coaches for interviews. I still work with coaches for interviews.

Three really? Yeah, they're hard to find because I had this interview coach named Steve Couch, he's a Canadian broadcaster and he was awesome. And then after, I don't know, we worked together for like a year. He told Jason, my producer Jason and I go, hey, this is not really a good sales job that I'm going to do here, but I can't really teach you guys much more. So I'm not going to keep taking your money because you've done everything that I've suggested and you're doing it well.

And I was like, thanks, that's high praise, but crap, now we don't have a coach. So I reach out to this guy named Frank Sezno and and he's works at CNN, and he's a journalism professor, and I have a dialogue going back and forth with him. And there's other people in my pipeline that are like the talk show host coach for NPR, and I'm like, look, I don't work for NPR, but are you available? And she's like, I haven't really done this, but I would consider it. If you want to come to one of my workshops, maybe I can like ask NPR if you can just join us or something.

So you have to create those opportunities. At this level, I feel like I have to create those opportunities because whenever I ask professional journalists for help, often they'll just listen to the show and they'll go, oh no, you're fine. And I'm like, no, I don't wanna hear that I'm fine. I wanna learn something. Or they'll go, oh yeah, you might wanna work on

just story arcing. And I'm like, yeah, you know, you might want to work on just story arcing. And I'm like, okay, that sounds like a week's of work that I don't know how to do. Somebody's got to teach me this stuff. It's like when you're working out and you're doing the fitness stuff or you're doing like fitness, physique, modeling or something, you don't ever probably look at yourself and go, shit, I'm perfect. I got nothing to do. What am I even going to do to it all?

Adam does that. You might. You might. I do not it all? Yeah, you're not. Adam does that. You might. You might. I do not. No, absolutely. You're taking the fuck out of yourself, for sure. No, it's such a fucking skill.

And I don't mean, we practice by doing it, but we have yet to hire somebody to coach us and help us. And I think that's absolutely brilliant. I don't know why we didn't relieve her. Well, I think when you're self-aware, if you recognize that about, I mean, we're all super critical of ourselves. I think when you're self-aware, if you recognize that about, I mean, I think we're all super critical of ourselves. I think we all recognize even when we turn the podcast

on that, you know, these three assholes have no experience podcasting. I would be a fool to think that I'm gonna be fucking great right out the gate, but what I do have is the ability to continue to grow and learn. And when I listen to a podcast like yours, it's funny, I don't listen to it, probably like a normal listener, a normal listener listens to it,

and they're like interested in the guest. Right, I don't give a fuck about that. I'm actually paying attention to the way the conversation flows, how you direct the guest, that's what I'm paying attention to. So in a sense, you are kind of coaching me or giving advice that way by paying attention to that. And this is the same advice that I give to younger people

that are getting involved in this, and they want to learn as a, listen, there's some really good talent to people out there that do interviews, listen to the way they interview and pay attention to how they evolve that, because I think there's plenty of that within a good podcast. So with the art of charm, one of the ways you guys monetize

is you guys have an academy or whatever, right? Where people have time. And I'm assuming now you don't have anymore more, have you thought about how you're going to monetize besides sponsorships? Sure. Yeah, the Jordan Harbinger Show will be monetized with, of course, sponsorships. That's naturally one of the things that was easiest for us. I don't like having too many ads, of course, but I do have to keep the lights on and pay

the team. Even if I live off my own sort of savings for the year while we rebuild, I can't expect the same of my team. So I'm gonna monetize that way. We're definitely going to be branching into, well, it depends on what shakes out with the split, right? Because there's gonna be some sort of non-competed I would imagine, because I don't even wanna speculate

because I feel like that's improper. But there's gonna be something where I have to design whatever income we have around whatever is of course agreeable or agreed to by the particular split. But there's always things that you can do. I'm not as interested. I'm not at all interested, frankly, in live training, per se, because it's super time consuming. It requires a sales team.

You've got to get people to fly out to you or you've got to run events elsewhere. It's not that I won't ever have events or that I won't participate in events, but having, I'm certainly not going to have a week long residential program or anything like that. And I will be teaching courses online in areas that I find myself to be qualified to teach and I will also be having, hopefully some show guests

and things like that also co-creating, collaborating on content as well. Because if we can get these guests in the door, it's kind of senseless not to try to do more with them if the audience is really going for the manas over the content. Right, absolutely for sure. So how are you handling the stress of it right now?

Because when you came in, you talked about, like, could leap and like, what do you do, do you have a strategy? What do you do? Cause that, that will, I mean, I told you off air that I went through a divorce while we were, I mean, while we were started, my pump, I went through a divorce after 15 years of marriage

and I quickly learned that if I didn't put things in place to handle the baseline stress, nothing else would work. It was like, I needed the baseline. It's like, I needed food and water if you're going to do this other stuff. No matter what you're going to do, you need these baseline things. Do you have a strategy or you're looking at things you can start to? Yeah, I do have a strategy, but it's also not necessarily working that great, or at least it's not complete.

I should say it's working, but it's not complete. I've never had the level of anxiety that I'm dealing with. Now I'm totally unfamiliar with it. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier about compassion when people say, before when somebody said, yeah, you know, I deal with anxiety, or people will write in and say, I have crippling anxiety. I'm like, okay, you're shy, I get it. And now I'm like, now I'm like, wait a minute. If this person means that they feel the way I felt this morning when I woke up, man, holy shit, I feel so bad for that guy.

I wanna give him a hug, man, because that's a terrible feeling. You feel like your mind is racing, you got a weird thing going on in your stomach, you can't sleep, you're torturing yourself, there's a lot of stuff you don't want to eat. Yeah, you don't want to eat. I'm outside walking to get sun and burn off a little bit of nervous energy, but like, you know, I'll see like a bird or something that looks injured and I'm like, I'm like, oh crap, am I about to cry right now? Like, what the fuck? And it's so weird, because you feel like a crazy person, man. Is there nothing in your life that you can even come close to comparing

to the feeling you're going through right now? Do you reach back and think like, man, I remember this one time that I went to this or is this that crazy different? This is the crazy unknown anxiety. This is like, I can't think of anything that compares to this. Now, that said, this is like,

as far as other people's problems go, this is like, people, even my producers like, bro, you gotta snap the fuck out of it, right? Cause he's got like, I don't have a, I don't have a death in the family, I'm healthy. Yeah, but don't, don't, don't lessen what you're feeling man. It's okay, like it's okay to say like this fucking sucks. That's what you're feeling right now.

And, you know, if you compare it to other people that will start to what happens you end up adding a layer on top of it because now you feel bad for feeling bad. Now you're judging like, wow, I'm fucking stressed out and anxious, but I shouldn't be because I don't have a death in the family. I don't have cancer. Don't do that because now you've got to go through some more layers. Like you feel what you feel, that's all. Yeah, well you gotta understand that we've spent years building up and protecting this ego of ours by becoming more successful and people knowing who we are and you build it, build it, build it, build it, build it, and then all of a sudden something like this happens and it's never been challenged at this level. It's never been challenged at this level and you gotta ask yourself like what's going

on here because you really aren't sick, you haven't been hurt, you haven't had a death, and is it that I'm identifying with this false thing that's not even real? Like, these aren't tangible things. It's this false ego that we've built up, and you're not injured, you can still go back to work, you still can build something, you could do something

greater things, so what is it that really causes us to be this way? And I always try and reflect on like, this is me, man. Like, I shouldn't be, I last night I just got into it with my girl. Like, we were, and I was really hard on her. It's just not like me to be like this. And, you know, I do, I do have the whereabouts that right after the conversation, I apologize. And I said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I got upset at you like that because it's not you. It totally me like this is because I would never talk to you like that or I mean you're my you're my rock You're my world everything that we're at right now is because of you. I respect you so much So now I'm like about I'm like getting emotional. I'm not kidding this shit happens to me like all day And I know what it is. I've got to like get it out

But my body's like what are you doing? There's a liquid forming around your eye. And I'm like, I don't know. And then I'm like, I think of something else. Exactly. And it happening though, I have this thing, I'm telling you right now, and I didn't mean to stop your story, but I'll tell you right now,

I'm gonna be in a movie theater, and I'm gonna see a commercial where it's like adopt a pet, and I'm gonna be like, I gotta go, right? And I'm gonna lose my shit. It's only matter time. You should have seen the text that I was sending, that I was sending these guys Well, I was going through my divorce order to my pump and it wasn't my texts weren't

Hey, I feel terrible feel bad for me. I feel so sorry for me. It was like hey man I apologize. I'm like 20% of my normal capacity. I love you guys. Thanks for having my back It is and looking back. It's a superpower We have humans have the ability to empathize way differently than other animals do. On a whole different level, it is a superpower, it is extremely valuable, and what you're doing, you're tapping into it, and it is something that's valuable.

And right now, you're just overwhelmed with it. But moving forward, it will make you, it has made me a totally different and better human being, and that's what it's gonna make you and you're just tapping into something that was always there, you just didn't, you just under a stone-frickin' cap, though, man. That's it, dude.

That's it. That's absolutely, it's crazy is how we could spiral down though if you don't get your hands on it, right? If you're not aware of it, it could turn into this very toxic thing where you then start like how I felt. I allowed outside stresses, something that had nothing really to do with her to affect our conversation when it's like, fuck, this is not your fault.

Anything, you're part of the reason why I'm here right now, but yet I'm putting it on you right now, but it's really not you falling short something. This is me and my insecurities that I'm dealing with myself right now because I have these expectations of where we should be in the business, what should be happening, what should be I mean, this is me and my insecurities that I'm dealing with myself right now because I have these expectations of where we should be in the business, what should be happening, what should be going on, and I'm putting that on you. And there was this moment that I had that I was like,

fuck, dude, I'm a piece of shit right now. I can't believe you did it. I did, you're just human, man. No, and it's a testament to also the incredible relationship and partnership that I have with Katrina because we kind of just went boom boom our separate ways for the night. You know, and she's like, I can't talk to you. I literally made her cry. It was so bad. And she kind of went her separate way and that kind of sat there in my own like, and I'm sitting there and I'm like kind of angry and stuff.

And I wasn't, and I'm like, I'm not really angry. How can I be angry at her? Everything that she's done. It's not her. This is me and what I'm dealing with. So I'm just sitting there kind of processing like why I feel this way. And when I really unpack all of it, it's all my ego and it's all my own insecurities. It's that I expect for me to be in a certain place right here. I thought we'd be more successful than this. I thought this would be accomplished.

I thought this would have been done by now. And it's all things that I'm really upset about myself and I'm projecting that on her. And at that moment I felt that and I walked upstairs and I just held her and said, you know, I'm sorry. Like I apologize, like I love you, like this isn't you. This is 100% me. And she ride away, she goes, I know, hon, I love you too.

And I know that. So I think that's, that to me is the important piece when you go through these things is, it's very, very difficult to pull yourself out and then try and look at like your emotions, your feelings and your reactions that you're having, and then really try and validate them for like, is this true? Is this true?

But I'm starting to conjure up in my mind like, is it not really that, this isn't reality? And before you get there, you have to let yourself be there. You talked about crippling anxiety or crippling. It literally is. Like, you'll, it's being terrified. But there's nothing in front of you to be terrified. I can imagine how you would feel if you knew you were about to cross a murky river with alligators in it, but you had to cross it.

Now, imagine that feeling. That's what people feel when they feel crippling anxiety except it's general and it's maybe there's not a specific thing, but like, what the fuck, I feel terrible. I can't even get up to brush my teeth because I feel so scared. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have, I think God, it's not at that level, but it's, it's some nights it's damn close. We're all just be like, I was laying in bed the other day, and my Apple watch was like, breathe, and I was like, oh, that pops up when you're like, you know, not, you're the heart rate, too.

I was like, I'll check my heart rate. One-thirteen. I wasn't thinking about anything, I didn't wake up from a nightmare. I was laying down, and I wasn't watching the new, nothing. And I was just like, that's weird, I'm not sleepy, and that was just like, oh shit. You know, this sort of like fight or flight thing

is happening. And to your earlier point about ego, it's not ego is in like arrogant like, oh shit, now people don't think I'm cool. It's what it is is I look and I go, wow, I've had like a thousand shows and more probably. And I built this back catalog and I built it over years. like a thousand shows and more probably. And I built this back catalog and I built it over years and all that had this big audience of people

that were listening to me. And now I have to start over, have I lost a part of myself? Because I was so attached to that. And I'm like, this is one of those, it's almost like a zen thing where it's like, oh, is this you? Are you your work? Is your body of work you?

Or is it something that you take with you? And if so, then maybe you need to like feel that in a way that's more unique to you. Cause right now, you're talking about looking at the mountain and trying to reset and everything. I'm in your friend who was the fitness competitor. I know exactly what she's feeling because and as guys, I think we're probably even worse with this stuff,

we go crap. I was building from level 10 trying to get to level 11. Now I'm at level one, and I wanna build to level 11. And it's like, no, you literally have to, so I'm looking at this mountain thinking, it does, thinking the race doesn't even start until I'm back to where I was. Exactly.

And then I've gotta keep going, and that's fucking overwhelming, man. Instead of just trying to build it piece by piece and do this new thing and do it right and do it different and keep going and doing what I do best, I'm thinking like, I'm thinking subconsciously, I have to literally rebuild everything

that I did over 11 years before I matter again. Have you snapped on anybody yet? No. Is that a thing that happens? Well, so I think everybody's different. I think there's really two types of people that get in these stressful positions. I actually think if you're not the person that snaps, I actually am more concerned because the other type is the type that will hold up

and get quiet and depressed and go in bare adults. That's probably me, yeah. Although I haven't experienced that either. Right, like there tends to be like this, I either have been, you're either the type of person where all this pressure stress and then you lash out, which is I think someone like me, I project it onto somebody else

and then that opens my eyes. Oh yeah, no I do that, I'm good. I'm sorry Jen, my life's like, what are you talking about? Of course you Oh yeah, no I do that, I'm good. Sorry Jen, my life's like, what are you talking about? Of course you do that, no I do that. Yes, I think that's the thing that you just gotta be aware of those moments because those are probably either already happening or going to happen and then where the spiraling down happens

is you can really start to damage all those that are around you that really are part of your support system. Right. Well, look at this way. If you knew right now that you were about to go climb a literal physical mountain, and it's something you've never done before, or whatever, it's something new,

it's just a big physical challenge. Okay, I got a 30 mile or 40 mile climb on this mountain. I need to prepare for that, or I need to strengthen myself to be able to do that. Think of it this way. You are going through some new challenges, a lot of uncertainties, some chaos going on. You're admittedly saying you're going through

crazy amounts of stress, create a strategy to strengthen yourself or take care of yourself. Because if you go hard enough, as well intentioned as you are, if you lose enough sleep, if you don't feed yourself properly and you don't make that something that becomes a priority, like I need to take care of myself because I can't handle this shit

with my body starts to fail me. If you don't do that and your body starts to fail, then it becomes almost impossible. So that's why I ask you, like what are the things, are there things that you're doing or maybe we can talk about? Yeah, let's talk about it. Okay, so here's what I got,

because I figured out early that self-care was gonna be huge because I was like staying up all night and talking with people on the phone or like, I mean, trying to like have a couple drinks to like wind down and that didn't work because I was so wound up. So then I was like, oh, I need to like drink the whole bottle of wine but I don't like doing that. And then my wife was like, no, you're not drinking yourself.

Obviously you're eating it. And I'm like, I don't even want to do that, right? So I would start doing, but I would start doing other stuff like, like, just unhealthy stuff. And not even, not even worth mentioning, really, but I started to then eat right. And I always loved walking and I make my phone calls when I walk and I do the audio books in preparation for shows when I'm walking and I Looked at my steps app the fast like couple weeks I've walked like a hundred miles and I'm not exaggerating. I mean normally I try to do like 10,000 steps a day And it now is like 35,000 steps. Holy shit. You are moving around. I'm moving around

Awesome, and I've lost 30 pounds not in the last month. Thank God. That would be really bad But in the past probably year I've lost 30 pounds, not in the last month. Thank God, that would be really bad. But in the past probably year, I've lost 30 pounds. You look good. Yeah. Thank you. I'm definitely losing more weight recently because of the fact that I'm walking so much. And I'm my appetite ain't what it used to be.

So I'm doing green juice in the morning because I'm waking up so hungry, which is unusual for me. Usually I skip breakfast, but I am dying by eight or nine a.m. Probably because I'm waking up at four. You're also burning a lot of calories, too though. And I'm burning a lot of calories.

I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, I'm burning a lot of calories. And I'm also eating a lot of home-cooked food instead of going out to eat because I started to realize that even the healthy restaurant, they have to make that should taste good. So they're gonna put butter in there or they're gonna put a lot of salt in there, or something.

So I just go to my in-laws house to eat, which is really close, and this is why this is important. It sounds lazy to go to your in-laws house to eat every single day, but I'll getting out of my house, because I work from home, and I walk around my neighborhood. Getting out of my house to go eat dinner at a place where I don't have my computer, there is no work, and my mother-in-law's gonna like cover me me with a blanket and my father-in-law is going

to just make like really good Chinese food and sit there and feed me vegetables basically. Like, oh, eat this, eat this. You know, that having other people take care of you like that is great. It's easy on me, it's easy on my wife. And so the other thing that we're adding to this is I have a gym membership, the gym is right across the street. It's a big to this is I have a gym membership. The gym is right across the street. It's a it's a big box gym, but it's still there. It's right there. And I'm like, hey, Jen, it's my wife. I'm like, hey, Jen, why don't we just, since we're up at 6 a.m.

fretting or like checking email, why don't you just sign up for the gym? We'll just go over there every morning and do like a light workout to get the blood flowing because I noticed that when I go to the gym, the rest of the day day I'm like, I can do this. What was I even upset about? But then the next day I'm like, shh, and my life is over. Right? So I just need to keep doing it. Yes.

Everyone knows that working out makes you feel good. This is different. This is like working out is keeping me sane. It's totally different. It's totally different. I had a family member about six years ago who I'm very close with, got diagnosed with terminal cancer, went through a year and a half process and I had always worked out.

I had worked out for, you know, I've been lifting weights since I was 14 years old or training since I was 14. And my goals were no longer, at that time, weren't there wasn't trying to build muscle, I wasn't trying to get stronger, I wasn't trying to improve my performance. It was literally I am taking care of myself right now. And it was a different attitude when I went in the gym. I unplugged everything, did my training,

went in my zone, and it wasn't to improve my fitness, it was just to keep myself healthy, and it fucking worked. Like, of everybody around that situation, I stayed the healthiest, and that's 100% one of the reasons. The other thing that I found, which I recently discovered through my divorce, was nature. And what I mean by nature is not just every once in a while going on a hike,

it was literally, let's go somewhere where there's no one and nothing, take my shoes and socks off and feel the dirt or feel the sand and schedule it. Like make it a regular weekly thing that I do. And if I can make it a daily thing and boy did that make it, because when you're out in nature,

you don't, if you don't have reception or you leave your phone on the car, there's nothing, there's no one. I feel like it's less of the nature and it's more about learning how to just completely be alone with yourself. It is, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's no one. I feel like it's less of the nature and it's more about learning how to just completely be alone with yourself. It is, but it's,

because it's changing, it has to change the scenery, but it's so hard to do. Yeah, I know, I agree. It's possibly that, it's also being small. You know, like, and for me, it's interesting. For me, it's definitely,

because I live in the redwoods and the redwoods are just so like grandiose, they're huge, and you look up and you just, you just have this different perspective about it. There's something to it. I mean, it's somewhat like mystical or like, woo, woo, whatever, but just being able to kind of look around and understand how small you are in the world,

it really impacts you in a different way. It's just, it's detachment and perspective. We, we live in this world now where we're so fucking plugged in, we have distractions around us all the time. People have a hard time having a conversation without being on their fucking phones together in front of each other. It's like you're so disconnected from yourself,

it's so crazy. And I think walking on a beach or going up in the red woods or doing these things like that, I think the real magic behind the woo-wooness of it is simply that is, you know, how often do you honestly just sit alone and silence by yourself or just really be, when do you do that? You just, we just don't you know, how often do you honestly just sit alone and silence by yourself or just really be at, when do you do that? You just, we just don't do that that often. It's great when you're nature because it's the awe of it and it's a different environment.

I'm always in the city. I'm always in, you know, or my house or at work. So I changed environments and I started doing that and it was just incredible spending time with people who are important to you. That was another one that was extremely powerful for me, avoiding processed foods always, because even when I feel good, if I eat processed foods, I'd notice that higher level of stress. So that was, and it's mainly because of inflammation. Yeah, inflammation goes up from processed foods,

which means cortisol goes up because cortisol is a responsive inflammation. Your cortisol's already fucking high, you're just stressed, so you're just amping everything up. And so the way I looked at my diet and exercise was, I have to be more perfect with these controllables so that I can handle more of these uncontrollables better. Like, here's all my controllables.

I'm just gonna really clamp down on those and dial those in, because so I can make myself more resilient. And then the other thing was, I don't, you're a big reader. Yeah. And usually when I read books, it's books that are informational, that are, you know, that are nonfiction, that are very dense. What I dance, yeah.

Very dense. What I did was, as I started to, so one book, I don't know, I've been with Eckhart Tolly. Yeah, of course. So a new earth, great book, I listened to that and he talks all about the ego on that and it really helped me separate things and stop identifying with certain things and it helped me move forward. That was another thing that I went through. But you have all these controllables that you know, like if you dial those in, man, you'll

make yourself so much more bulletproof with all this stuff because there's already look what you're going through, a lot, like there's a lot of, uh, yeah, uncontrollables, there's a lot of chaos. Yes. That's the stress. Jordan, have you fucked with a float tank yet? A long time ago I did and I was like, oh, it didn't work.

And then my, my friends were like, oh, really? It didn't work. You know, for me, it was really good. And I was like, yeah, I just kept hearing, um, toilets flushing across the street. And I was like, yeah, I just kept hearing toilets flushing across the street. And I kept hearing like all of these different things in the float tank. And the guy who was working there, who was the owner was like, no, you definitely didn't hear anything. Those are like auditory hallucinations. And I was, and I was like,

Oh, shit. I guess it worked. But I was, my mind was going through some thing where I was literally like, no, I could hear people talking. And I could, and he's like, I bet if you hear those, I heard those people talking again and you really zoomed in on it and you'd realize it's like, you're, you know, your dead grandmother or something. And I'm like, oh, that's totally terrifying. But he's like, no, for real though, like it's going to be like, you talking to your mom as a child, because he's like, if you stand that float tank for 60 minutes, there's nothing.

You can't hear, see, anything. Your brain just starts to do weird stuff. And it's like people in solitary confinement and stuff, how they have these weird mental and emotional things happening. You start to get a little tiny bit of that, which hopefully is a benefit in a float tank. But... It's cool.

Your brain just creates, it has to create its own reality. Have you gone to the one over here in Campbell? Have you been, I haven't, I saw that though. Looks really cool. You guys been there? Yeah, yeah, we have a few times. Oh, I mean, we went in there for two hours. I did a two hour session, which was kind of cool.

Are you taking any adaptogenic herbs or things that have been, you know, because there are certain herbs that have been used for thousands of years Chinese and erivetic medicine has some, have some really good, you know, advice in regards to allowing the body or helping the body handle stress. That's what adaptogens do. Is that, are you gonna get them on that four-sigmatic chaga right now? Well, no, I mean, they are one of our sponsors. How was it even, I wasn't even gonna mention them actually.

I wasn't even trying to do a plug, but you can try, Ashwaganda is a very, very good, adaptogenic herb. It's actually got clinical science to support how it helps the body handle stress. So that's a good one. It's not acute, so it's not like you take it

and you notice right away, some people say that, they do, but really if you take it every day after about four, or five days, you'll notice you just have a lower level of stress, or at least your body doesn't feel so amped. And then for acute stress, you can try passion flour. And passion flour is not to be used super, super regularly, but more when you have kind of that acute,

like you did the other day when you were laying down and you know, your heart rate was well high. Passion flour increases GABA in the brain, which is a inhibitory neurotransmitter. It's the thing that goes up when you drink alcohol or when you smoke pot except it's not nearly that powerful, it's much more subtle and it doesn't have those other side effects. So those are the two things I would recommend. So passion flower for acute, ashwagand regularly, and then you do the exercise diet stuff, and then hopefully that'll help you with your sleep,

because I think your sleep is just, that's really a side effect of everything else. If you start to handle some things, and you might be able to. Some grand eddy purple or OG cush should help that too. Yeah, you know, it's funny, because I am so not a marijuana guy, and like, we live in California,

we're in North California, and everyone's like, dude, just get the buds out and blah, blah, blah. And a friend of mine has a favorite of me, Aljia. And it's funny because I talked to him and I go, that's funny. I thought crippling anxiety was for people who were kind of just maybe crazy. And he's like, yeah, I thought

for everyone my Aljia was for people who had psychosomatic disorder. And he's like, so we both have these things that we didn't think were real. And he's like the only thing that works. He's like, people he's telling me to smoke pot. And so he started to experiment a little with with edibles and stuff. And he was like, try it.

I'm like, come on, man. He's like, no, it's the only thing that works. So now I'm going from, I mean, I'm not smoking jays all the time or anything. I got to protect my voice. But I went to a dispensary and I grabbed some CBD, like, choose and I'm like, all right, I'll try this because at worst case, it's just like some non-psychoactive CBD with a little bit of sugar and chocolate.

I'll give it a shot. Is it the Chiba Choose, the Purple One? Yeah. Oh, that's good shit. You're probably gonna see in place I go to. Yeah, probably. Yeah, down in a, wow, whatever. But we're not sponsored by the internet.

Do you ever mention it? Yes, exactly. Oh, is it that place? Yeah, yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah, it's that place. We'll go there afterwards. Yeah, we're all gonna go make a trip.

We'll make a trip. So I'm like, okay, you know, these aren't cheap, but I'm like, how much is it worth for me to get a good night's sleep and just relax? And it's like, you know, this is not a chemical compound that's manufactured by Pfizer. Right.

This is something that some dude grew right around here and baked it into a little brownie and it doesn't have a psychoactive effect. So I'm not like, hey guys, what's going on man? It's just this lower level of. Does it work for you? It does. And I'll tell you, it's weird because before I thought

this doesn't really do anything. Now I realize it, because if I think of something now, some sort of stressful thing, I could feel like my heart do this thing, where there's like an adrenaline, it feels like it's taking a bath in a adrenaline or something like that, and it'll happen all the time.

And I'll do a little bit of the shoes, or I'll go to the gym, and then like, you know, if I do really good self-care routine that day, I'll think of something a little stressful and it'll be like more mild or it'll be like, nah, whatever. But if I'm really high-strung, I'll think of a thing or I'll see an email coming in, I'll be like,

oh my God, oh my God, you know? And I realize, wow, if I can minimize that chest crap that's going on, that affects my eating, sleeping, da-da-da, the days on which I wake up and I've had a full nights rest are I am a totally different person than if I've had half a nights rest and if I haven't slept the night before, Jen, I feel bad for her and I don't mean to embarrass her

but she will literally almost start crying in the morning because she just knows the whole day is gonna be a shit, piece of just a shit show. Yeah, when I was a young trainer and I was training clients crying in the morning because she just knows the whole day is going to be a shit piece. It's just a shit show. Yeah. When I was a young trainer and I was training clients that were in their, you know, 30, 40, 50 years old successful businessmen and women, I would like hammer home like the programming and the cardio and the macros and your diet and everything like that. Fast forward 15 years later, how long I've been doing this and all the hundreds and potentially

thousands of people that I've trained that are and all the hundreds and potentially thousands of people that I've trained that are like that. My advice is so different now. It's like sun, water, walk, sleep. That's what you're doing, I'm doing it. I'm doing it right, it's an element. It's an element. Those are like literally like master those four

then get back to me and we can get crazy about macros and sun, water, walking, and sleep. And sleep, those are the most important. And they're the biggest rocks. And the biggest rocks. And breathing, so two things, this is very important now. Breathing is a, involves a lot of muscles, so when you breathe in and you breathe out, there's muscles that are involved that allow

you to do that, and you develop recruitment patterns with every time you take a breath. Now a pattern is something that can become your default pattern. For example, when you walk, you don't think about how you walk, but muscles fire in a particular way. And you have a unique pattern to how you walk versus somebody else who says, who say is taller or maybe always wear high heels or whatever, right? You have this pattern, you don't have to think about it. When you're stressed out, you change the way you breathe, and if you don't stop that patterning, it will become your new default pattern.

And here's a second part to it. Stress is an anxiety, or part of what's called a positive feedback loop. So let me explain what that means. But it sounds so negative. Right. So a negative feedback loop is like, here's a classic example, our audience are fitness people. So the classic negative feedback loop is,

I take testosterone, my body recognizes it and slows down or stops its own production of testosterone. That's bad. To balance me out, right? Well, let's just the way your body balances out. Sure, okay. Now a positive feedback loop amplifies as you go through it.

So here's a classic example. I know I'm go through it. So here's a classic example. I know I'm going with it. So here's a classic example. I'm sitting here and I start thinking about something stressful so my heart starts to beat fast. I start to feel my heart beat fast. I start to think about my heart beating fast. I start to worry about my heart beating fast.

So now I get more anxiety, which then makes it beat faster, which then makes me more anxious. And it starts to compound. And this is how people have anxiety attacks. It's literally this positive feedback loop. So one of the most important things you could do with stress and anxiety is to interrupt that cycle. And one of the, and so you were talking about CBD,

that's one way is where I'm taking something that is minimizing the physical effects of anxiety. So it's not taking away your problems, but it is minimizing the physical effects of anxiety, so it's not taking away your problems, but it is minimizing the physical sensation of anxiety, which helps interrupt that positive feedback loop. Very similar to what you're talking about with going out in nature too, just when you hit those, your feet hit the sand.

100% and your barefoot, 100% interrupt that, all of a sudden I'm thinking about, and this is what we love to talk about this on the show because for so many years, when people would explain this to me in the past it would sound so woo-woo. Yeah, like earthing. Yeah, I'm like, crap. That was one of the things where I had somebody on that's to your earlier, earlier question.

Something I had to call somebody out on was that earthing stuff and I was like, bro, this sounds like total bullshit. Well, it's the way they explain it. Yeah, they explain things and stuff. Right, they explain it in a very non-scientific way. And to be quite frankly, we still don't fully understand it. That's just what we do fucking know, for sure, getting back to South's point, is that if you've got this feedback loop going on, and it's just this vicious cycle

and it's accelerating, accelerating, one of the best things you could do, like he's saying, is interrupt that. One of the easiest ways to do that is to put yourself in your feet, all of a sudden touching the sand. It's stimulus. Because now you're not thinking about that stress, all of a sudden, oh, while you're feeling the sand

and you're moving that, it's quiet around you, you hear the birds, you hear it, whatever, it's just interrupting that loop and stopping what can potentially become a recruitment pattern. And this is how people develop these disorders with anxiety or stress where even though things may be working out for you, all of a sudden you're like, why am I still feeling shitty or what's going on?

Or it starts to get at a control and breathing is part of it. So one of the things that you might want to do is try practicing belly breathing throughout the day. And belly breathing literally is you stop, what's going on, you breathe deep into your diaphragm so that your belly expands. So you feel your belly fill up, you hold that, you hold that breath, you get in as deep as you possibly can,

you hold it for about five seconds, then you breathe out real slow, then you hold again for five seconds as your breath is out, and then you repeat that cycle, and what it does, it interrupts the cycle and it prevents you from creating this, or from feeding this positive feedback loop and from creating this recruitment pattern because it will happen over time. And I know this might, my girlfriend experienced this where she has trouble breathing and it's because she developed this recruitment pattern from when she went through a very stressful period of life

and now shit's not stressful and yet why do I feel like I'm short of breath? This is actually quite common chewing your food and this is all it's all it sounds stupid it sounds woo-woo and Adam's completely right what ends up happening is and I'll use another example we'll talk about fasting not that this necessarily is what you do for stress but this is just a great way to illustrate what I'm talking about. Fasting has existed for thousands and thousands of years across cultures and in all major religions. So what that tells you right there is, let's see,

if all these ancient cultures recommend fasting for health, and if all these religions from Buddhism to Islam to Christianity to Islam to Christianity, Judaism to Hinduism, I mean every religion advocates fasting for health, there's probably something to it. Now, the problem comes from people trying to explain it in their own words, which sounds like detoxify your body and it's good for the spirit. Us people who grew up in Western societies hear that and I'm thinking, you're bullshit.

Like, that's not how I'm talking. Right. You know, the chi of your body, the Chinese energy flowing, that's bullshit, that is, but when you, for fucking acupuncturists existed for thousands of years, people say it works, we just don't know how to explain it yet, but there's something to it. Same thing with grounding, same thing with breathing, same thing with sunlight, same thing with chewing your food, same thing with meditating, all these little things, you might not know how they work,

but they've existed for a long time. If you start implementing what you know how to control, game changer, it makes you so much more fun. Game changer for you, Jordan, you said something that I totally connected to earlier with the whole your brain going. So I've struggled with this for a very long time. I was never a good sleeper ever.

I've never been a great sleeper. Never been somebody who lays his head down on the pillow and is out and then wakes up. And it's, I'm very cerebral. I can't stop thinking. I'm always thinking about stuff that's going on and most a lot of route centered around business, right? And so Katrina can feel me like breathing differently

when I'm laying in bed. And I'll be dead silent, lights are out. We've been laying there for an hour and she'll kind of roll over and like elbow me and she'll be like, stop it. And I'm like, what do you talk about it? And she can tell just by the way, I'm breathing that I'm thinking so hard.

Yeah. And so what she's, what we've started as a practice now when she catches that, because I still have these bad habits. It doesn't fucking go away. I'm still, I still fall in these bad patterns. It's a pattern, but we've learned to recognize it. When she recognizes it, she'll roll over

and it should be half asleep and she'll elbow me and she'll go, let's breathe together. And we'll literally do 10 deep, real deep breaths, five second holds, five, just box breathing, right? We'll box breathe for literally like 10 reps. And it's a trip, dude. I can feel my body go, bro, you'll feel, you'll feel tingly sometimes in your hands and feel like that.

I do get that. I do get the tingle thing and there was a point at which I was proct, I learned, I took this class where they, at the end of the class, they kidnap you and throw you in the back of the van. Have you guys heard about this? No, no, no, dude. Dude, you signed up for this?

Yes. Oh man, this class was dope as hell. Okay, so this is an urban escape and evasion. And what happens is you sit in a hotel room or whatever and you talk for a few days and they teach you how to stash things in a city, how to hide stuff, how to make improvises, or whatever.

And then they also teach you how people track you and how to do some basic disguise stuff. It's like a fugitive class. And the culmination at the end of this three or four day course is they don't attack you, but you show up on the final day, they put a bag over your head, they handcuff you, they put you in the back of a van,

and they drive you to a home depot, and they just leave you in the van, and it's like you're being kidnapped. And while they're driving, they're like throwing water on you and stuff, like not waterboarding, but they're throwing water on you. How much do you pay for this?

I was comp, so it's okay. But they leave you in the back of this van, and it's like starting to get hot. And what you do is you take out a bobby pin, they tell you like stash a bobby pin in a place where you can reach it when you're handcuffed, and you should like always have this on you or whatever if you're paranoid.

But anyway, you take it, you break it, you make a handcuffed key out of it, you pick the cuffs, you get the bag off your head, you know, you undo the leg irons, you look around because the kidnap quote unquote kidnappers are around somewhere, you look around, you get out of the van and then they immediately start tracking you. And there's like 2015 to 20 volunteers all across the city of l.a. where I took this class that are just you have to make your way to this end point which is like your escape point and all along the way there's all these people tracking you that have already taken the class and a lot of them are like detectives private and stuff and so I'm walking along the l.a. river

and I'm like they're're never gonna find me here. And then I hear someone be like, hey, and I'm like, shit, so I'm running away. And then I get into a building and I go into a fast food place and I go in the bathroom and I do the disguise thing. And I get to one of my hidden stashes and I like take out my other disguise thing.

And I'm sitting there and I see them coming for me and I sit down at this little league game and the coach is like, what are you doing? Crazy person. And I finally think they're all gone. And then I turn around. And the guys are sitting there and they're like, this is pretty good. We did walk by you twice, but you're the only guy watching a little league game. And it's a little weird. And I was like, damn it. So then they're like, all right, you have to go back another place and then you try again. And you're just constantly going through this. Why the hell did we get on this subject? Oh,

box breathing. So they were teaching us box breathing because they're like, look, you're just constantly going through this. Why the hell did we get on this subject? Oh, box breathing. Right. So they were teaching us box breathing because they're like, look, you're not going to be able to think. If someone fricking kidnaps you and throws you into a van or if someone is like attacked you and they got you like hog tied, you're going to be freaking out. And you need to like do this box breathing.

And I remember learning the box breathing thing and feeling like little lightheaded, which is not how you do it. But then my hands and fingers would be tingling and stuff. And I just thought, this is weird. How come my body feels this? And it's like the oxygenation, if you're just not used to it. Yes. And it's really, again, it's a technique to bring the level down, stop the positive feedback

loop, interrupt it. And now you can have your wits about you, because when you're in that state, it isn't the frontal lobe that's processing things. It's not the smart part of you or the conscious part of you. It's the subconscious, which if you don't interrupt that subconscious, you could fucking try stopping it all you want.

It ain't gonna happen. Well, think of it like an evolutionary, right? Going back to the young boy hunting for his first killer, or what are you like that, and how scary that had had been been and probably how shitty his first throw was and it's like after you've done after you've done this a hundred times and stuff like that like that fear starts to settle down it's not so much that the threat is no longer there the threat is still there is that you've learned

how to mentally control that and calm your nerves pay attention what you're doing and we've ready aim shoot fire type of deal well this is the same thing with what we're talking about in life is, you know, you've got all these shit, all these distractions, all these scary things going on. And sometimes the best and simplest thing that we can do is just fucking stop, get connected or grounded, whatever you want to call it, focus on your breathing

and get recalibrated and be like, okay, let me hone in here. And every time I've learned to do that, like things start to unfold in front of me. It's like, oh shit, dude. I hate that shit, don't give me a start. That's not I think. What's Jordan, what is your, do you have a higher purpose? Do you tell yourself, do you feel like

you got this higher purpose? Yeah, because I feel like you do, but I wanna hear what you think. Yeah, it sounds cheesy whenever I talk about this stuff, but I'll tell you, yeah, I mean, my kind of goal in life here is to be able to have, be able to convey wisdom to people that I feel like is a little bit hidden,

and I don't mean that teaching people secret knowledge, but I mean, like learning real stuff is actually quite hard. We go to school, we learn a bunch of stuff, most of it is not useful. We grow up, we take a job, we start training, we learn a bunch of stuff that maybe works in one situation, but it's not necessarily useful. So as humans, we don't grow that much unless we're like

reading self-help books all the time. And then you're kind of like reading stuff like the secret where it's like just envisioning a manifestation. And it's like, no. So I'm getting, I love getting the people that I do for the show, for example, getting them together, creating products or creating articles or creating content, especially conversations where someone can listen in and go,

wow, I just learned something from a general. I would never have had access to this person, even if I did, I wouldn't know what to ask them. And now I've got this. And I feel like helping people grow like that is something that has driven me for such a long time. And it's so important because otherwise, there's all these people with really awesome potential and they're just kind of going through life thinking, yeah, I've got my job and I've got my hobbies and stuff,

but they don't think about how they're gonna be able to level up without looking at the stack of self-help books and going, man, I don't have time to read all this stuff. So I wanna make it entertaining, I wanna make it fun, I wanna make it easily digestible, and I want people to be able to listen and go, okay, cool, I learned something from the show, I like this. I learned something from this guy in this video,

I'm in this product, or whatever. And that, for me, is really important because I think that there's so many people out there that have learned awesome, amazing things from, you know, Shaqille O'Neal, or the General Macrystal, or like, Shaquille O'Neal or the General Macrystal or like that, someone I've had recently on the show, even like lawyers and these crisis management people or even investors.

And their wisdom is just off limits unless they write a book and then you buy that book and you read that and then you get that piece out. And I'm like, no, I'll do that. And then I'll talk to this person and I'll have them tell this stuff in a way that's entertaining and then you can apply it right away. So instead of spending 10 hours, you spent 45 minutes with me. Yeah. And that for me is, that's what I love doing that.

I would have guessed that because you did that right now on this podcast. Well, you did. For sure. You did, you just did, you served it. I want to be respectful of your time. I know that you have another meeting at 12 o'clock and we're coming up on that already right now

So this will not be the last time we do this. Hopefully we'll see your face around here a little bit. We got your back, dude Yeah, we're back, bro. Yeah, so excited excited to see things go forward We'll make sure we do a nice little commercial and direct people were to go find the podcast and everything man Excited to see you. You look great man and look forward to this next year for you Thank you very much. Yeah, the Jordan Harbanger show, I need all the help I can get from it. Show fans from before or people that are willing to try something new. I love the Mind Pump audience. Great audience, really cool people.

And I hear from you, your peeps all the time. And I need the support more than ever now. Excellent. Right on, guys. Thanks. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance dramatically improve your health and energy,

and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on the ball, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com.

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