Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 740: The Fascinating Story of Luke Storey

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin interview Luke Storey of The Life Stylist Podcast. Luke has been to hell and back and like some of our other recent guests has come out stronger on the other side. You can find Luke at: The Life Stylist Podcast, Lukestorey.com and @lukestorey on Instagram. Food is religion. The dogmatic approach of how we identify with what we eat. (6:25) When I was a kid I experienced a lot of trauma. How he had to find a way to medicate to deal with his childhood trauma growing up. (12:40) Living the Hollywood dream. From being reformed in boarding school, moving to Hollywood, he shares living the rock n’ roll lifestyle. (21:20) It’s not the poison it’s the dose. My life was on the line in a spiritual sense. The steps he took to get to the level of self-awareness. (27:50) Learning spiritual principles was his gateway drug. (30:45) The need to instill the human connection and community into our children. (32:15) Drugs and alcohol were not the problem, I treated myself like shit. He shares how his sobriety and past trauma has affected his relationships. (34:35) Learning to be comfortable with myself You got to serve. How he has had a happy and meaningful life sharing his life experiences through his podcast. (50:35) Strategies he uses to bring the best out of his guests Most difficult/best guest I always knew I was going to quit that shit. Defining addiction, his process of being sober and has he had any temptations to relapse. (1:05:00) My brand is my lifestyle. How has he dealt with being attached to social media? (1:15:00) I’ve taken a Paleolithic approach. The practices has he put into his own life from guests he has had. (1:20:50) Meditation is invaluable. Luke gives his tips and life hacks to implement into your life now. (1:26:00) The power of influence. What he has in store for his podcast and the future guests he wants to bring on. (1:40:20) Related Links/Products Mentioned: Sleepers Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: The Classic Guide to Understanding the Opposite Sex – Book by John Gray John Gray: The Master Key To Enlightened Sex #39 — LUKE STOREY Jeff Kober: The Walking Dead And The Path of ... - Luke Storey The Fourth Phase of Water: Beyond Solid, Liquid, and Vapor – Book by Gerald H. Pollack Electromagnetic Fields, Oxidative Stress, and Neurodegeneration EMF 5: What are the Biologic Effects of EMF? - Jack Kruse Headspace: Meditation and Mindfulness Made Simple Brain.fm The Technique — Vedic Path Meditation Featured Guest/People Mentioned: LUKE STOREY The Life Stylist Podcast LukeStorey (@lukestorey)  Instagram (@MrLukeStorey)  Twitter Rich Roll (@richroll)  Instagram Diana Rodgers, RD (@sustainabledish)  Instagram Jeff Kober John Gray Daniel Vitalis (@danielvitalis)  Instagram Jack Kruse (@drjackkruse)  Instagram Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfieldfitness)  Instagram Keith Richards (@officialKeef)  Twitter Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS HIIT, an expertly programmed and phased High Intensity Interval Training program designed to maximize fat burn and improve conditioning. Get it at www.mindpumpmedia.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. $20 Off your first three purchases of $49 or more (That’s $60 off total!) 3. Free shipping on orders of $49 or more You insure your car but do you insure YOU? If you don’t, and you are the primary breadwinner, you will likely leave your loved ones facing hardship and struggle if you die (harsh reality). Perhaps you think life insurance is expensive, but if you are fit and healthy, you can qualify for approved rates that are truly inexpensive and affordable. To find out if you qualify for the best rates in the industry, go get a quote at www.HealthIQ.com/mindpump Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Get your Kimera Koffee at www.kimerakoffee.com, code "mindpump" for 10% off! Get Organifi, certified organic greens, protein, probiotics, etc at www.organifi.com Use the code “mindpump” for 20% off. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Add to the incredible brain enhancing effect of Kimera Koffee with www.brain.fm/mindpump 10 Free sessions! Music for the brain for incredible focus, sleep and naps! Also includes 20% if you purchase! Please subscribe, rate and review this show! 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If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So the first time we met Luke was just you and I, Adam. Yes. We did an L.A. podcast, Extravaganza. We were all over the place and we go into Luke's, first of all, cool guy. Very cool guy.

Super cool guy. Doesn't look anywhere near his age. Sorry Luke, I don't actually know, I won't give away your age. He is very youthful. He's a very handsome, younger looking dude. Well, he gave away his age on the show, four or seven. Yeah, I said it. Yeah, he looks, he looks a good 10 years younger than his age.

It's like 20 something. But anyway, we show up at his house. He's got a cool house, man. You can tell this dude's like fashion, right? Like the house is cool. He's got like pictures and paintings of, like there's some naked women over here, but it's really artistic and great furniture

and just great vibe. We go in there, he offers us some four-signatic mushroom drink and you know, gives us some like, some great water. I don't remember what was in the water, it was really nice. And we're sitting there and just had a great time. That was the time you choked. Yeah. That's right. Remember that? Yeah. That's my first thing. You know what happened? I tell me again. So this is this is and you know what dude I got to give credit to Adam. Just fold me. Totally. This was a tactic. This was actually a tactic.

Brilliant tactic. Out of it, right? Yeah, so we're podcasting and it's been a long day. Luke was the last podcast of the day and we were just going having a great time and the conversation was gonna kind of deepen and add them. I guess, so this is what it looked like to me. He's telling a story and then he starts coughing.

Like, like, starts choking and he's like, and he's like, give me some water. So I hand him the water and I just take over. And I'm like, well, you know, crisis reverted. He was coughing a little bit, give him some water. I took over, no big deal. Afterwards, he's like, dude, he goes,

I lost my trade of thought. Do you know what I was gonna say? So that's why I started coughing. So the cough was not real. But I swear, dude, it was the most real. I was so full. I gave you my water, I'm like here bro. Drink my water.

That's some ninja stuff. I'm gonna eat one of my next interviews, I'm gonna use that as like an answer to a question because it's one of those behind the scenes things that if you've been a mind-pump listener for a long time, I've heard you tell that story before or that happened. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't know if you're just listening, right?

If you're just listening to it, it does sound like that. No, but it was a realist situation. If this happens to me, this happens to me on a semi-regular basis where my mouth just does not keep up with my brain. You know what I'm saying? Like, my brain is telling a story and I'm like, really into it. It's like, whoo! It's like going, right?

You're like mouth fatigue. And no, it's just, yeah, the brain brain and then the mouth is like oh shit like the oops The brain got too far ahead you know saying the brain went like way down there and like no you're not there yet So that that happens to me too sometimes and what I do is I just go where I was going You know, I mean so like let's say I was gonna make a point about yeah They don't like resist just like pieces that are missing well, I just moved for people are just like god You go all over the place with your stories, but they're really good and it it's like, well, I'm just going where, like I forgot what I was going to say. I'm just going over here. I'm turning right. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. I do that. talking about. Which is ironic that we're sharing this right now and the the the Luke is Luke story and it's kind of unique how he's done this whole thing

and his as far as his podcast and his great podcast. He's got a great story. You know, so Luke's got a great story and he's very very open and honest. Crazy story. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even want to share some of it because I want people to listen to it because, like it's unbelievable. Some of the stuff I can't believe he made it out. You know, like he became who he is today. It's just like fascinating.

Well, I couldn't help but look at you guys when he was sharing childhood stories of him being at eight and nine or eight and nine years old because I'm looking at you guys knowing that you guys have kids at age and thinking like, listen to what this guy was doing with that. I can't even fathom. Right. It was just like, I can't even fathom. Right.

It was just like, I can't even comprehend this. Yeah, no, it's great. But because it ended up okay, I can listen to it. I can hear it because I'm looking at the guy as he's telling it. And he's a great guy. He looks healthy. He's got a successful podcast.

He's had successful business. So I can, but man, crazy shit this guy's been through. Anyway, Luke's story has a podcast. It's a great podcast called the Lifestyleist podcast. It's about optimizing your life, both mentally, spiritually, physically. So he has lots of like health hackers and stuff like biohackers. And he doesn't, and he doesn't come from like trying to be a guru about it. He introduces you to a lot of gurus and he's a very normal guy and admits that and doesn't try and sound like he's an expert

And he just shout he shares his story and he's like a cool guy, right? I mean like you don't get a lot of people in the space that are like actually cool people that you'd hang out with so I was like It's like oh wow. This is a nice change of pace. I've been seen in public with you His podcast like I said the lifestyle is. You can find them online Luke Story. That's STOREY.com and then Instagram at LukeStory. And oh, and also this is, I think this is going to air on the 1st of April, which gives you like, it's crunch time. Some are times around the corner, time to look awesome.

This is when you take your shirt off and you show off your body and your midsection. So check this out. A lot of people don't know this, but we have a program that is designed specifically to train your core, your midsections. Now I designed this program a long time ago and it was to build visible apps, to give you the bricks, to give you the six pack that shows even at higher body fat percentages. So it's a well-programmed app and core training program. It's called the no BS six pack formula. We're going to give that to you

for free this month if you enroll in any bundle any maps bundle. Now maps bundles takes several maps programs combines them together and discounts them about 30% off or so so so if you get any bundle We'll throw in the no BS 6 pack formula absolutely for free and yes you can combine all of them and that's this month only For more information on that and any other programs go to mind pump media calm and without any further ado Here we are talking to Luke story of the lifestyleist podcast Dude, I'm inspired by your studio though this is awesome this is like my yeah the band gets here my parents

then my parents come home yeah that's great take us a hot minute though to get here we did you know what I was actually meaning to throw it remind me after this podcast remind me to throw up a picture or have Taylor put a picture up on the mind pump page of the picture. I have quite a few pictures of the three of us and Doug's living room on a little table, you know, when we all first, when we first started doing this. That's dope, that's dope.

Yeah, I have some of my YouTube videos when I didn't discover that you could use those mics. And I crammed, I think it was like, I who would I have in there, was Rich Roll. And he came over and we're sitting like, it's like we're about to kiss in the fucking video. We're super, super close. And then I realized like,

oh, I could just get different mics and move into living room and make little stuff. How did you, that's one of the people I saw. I was talking off air with you about, you've had quite the lineup lately, and how was Rich Roll? What was that like? Rich is awesome, man. You know, it's funny. We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we diet and no offense, but a lot like over,

I mean, I've been in the house scene for 21 years and over the years, I've been around a lot of people that follow a different regiment and sometimes, not all the time, sometimes people that are on like the raw food thing are sort of on a different wavelength and be super hyper and kind of blood sugar crazy and not grounded. But he's got his practice. So, you know, he is a spiritually oriented person. So he was super chill. Yeah, he was great. And what's awesome about Rich too is that he's an advocate for his way of eating and living, but he doesn't shame other people.

He's not dogmatic about it. Yeah. That's what I really liked about him. Yeah. Because you can get, I mean, here's the thing. You've been in fitness as long as we have, you have, nutrition is right up there with politics and religion. I mean, I would venture to say that's the third worst thing to talk about

like at the family dinner table. Because people get very, and now more than ever, at being someone who's been doing this for a very long time, it was kinda like that before, but we've created so many of these fucking diets now. Now it's gotten crazy. It's like religions. It is a weird thing when you kind of identify who you are as a person based on the kind of fuel

you put in your body. It's sort of like, you think you're a car so you're like, I'm an unleaded. I'm a leaded. It's like, I don't even, I'm my oxygen. Yeah, I just think about food as like what works for your body best. Cause I was a vegetarian for 10 years. So I've been down that road and that shit almost killed me.

You know, but I don't I don't walk around going, I'm a meter. Yeah. I'm a high fatter. You know, it's just like what that's just like, well, I think, I think especially when you talk about veganism, a large percentage of vegans are motivated to eat that way, not because they're seeking better health, but more so because they find it immoral or wrong to eat an animal.

So for them, it really is a belief system. Right, right. It is kind of like a religion for them. Right, that's true. That's true. I guess that's why that's more prevalent when some people have that approach to be so dogmatic and also so in some cases aggressively

judgmental toward other people. Yeah, exactly if you thought you were like every time you ate you know your friend ate something you thought they were killing something that you believed to be you know right the same you know playing Assumines or whatever you would be dogmatic. They're put barbecue sauce on it right You know, playing the shenanigans or whatever. You would be dogmatic about that. You would put barbecue sauce on it right away. Right, right, right. It's gonna put up. I did an interview with Diana Rogers,

who has got a podcast called Sustainable Dish. And she's really cool, because she's a dietician and a farmer. She's got a farm in Massachusetts. And we had a great talk about all of this stuff. And the morality of eating meat or not eating meat. Because I was a vegetarian because A, this back in like the late 90s, I think that I

went into that. And I didn't know there was an alternative to factory farm meat, but I knew that that was bad as I started to go down the rabbit hole. And then there was also the moral things like, dude, I don't want to kill an animal. But we were talking about, and it's like, even if you grew an acre of kale, in order to do that, you got to kill thousands of animals and creatures of all kinds, lizards, birds,

rodents, snakes, you know? So it's like there's kind of no way to eat any sort of diet without killing. No, I think, I think, it's interesting just to look at it from that perspective. You gotta realize, that's just how it works. Food comes from something that's alive, even plants. Plants are alive too, so if you go down that rabbit hole,

like what are you gonna, we're gonna eat, what are we gonna eat, soy lip? And if you've ever tried to grow food, have you guys ever had like an urban garden or tried to grow food? I've attempted, it's not easy. You know why it's hard? Because you're at war with all the other animals and creatures that want to eat your shit. We're not the only ones that like

fucking spinach. Yeah. Right. You know, so even if like I'm like fuck this, I'm going plant-based and I'm going to grow my own food. I'm going to have to kill a bunch of creatures just to grow my food because they're going to come take it. I tried to have to urban garden in Hollywood and these fucking raccoons man. Come every night I'd come and all my shit would be gone. And then finally I set up, oh my God, it's funny. I set up like a laptop in the window and then put the camera on. That was like my, you know,

I'm like, what do you call it? Like security camera, because I couldn't figure out what it was. And then it caught, I was like, oh, it's a raccoon. So I set up this little trap where there was a trip wire. If they got into my little veggie, you know, planter I was like, oh, it's a raccoon. So I set up this little trap where there was a trip wire. If they got into my little veggie planter that it would have this trip wire.

And then I put all this powdered cayenne pepper on a little board that would flip it and flip in his face. Oh my God. Totally nuts. Did it work? Yeah, it worked, dude. Oh, yeah.

And I was like, because I don't want to poison it. I'm not going to go out there with my 22 and shoot it. I mean, instead you just be so keen. You're so keen to do that. Yeah, I mean, it's nice to you. Yeah, exactly. For later on. Funny shit, but that's when I realized I was like,

oh man, if you try to grow anything, you're actually at war with the animal kingdom. Right, right. Because they're hungry too, just like you are. Luke, you said you've been doing this for 20 years? So you said? In fitness. You know, I got into health and fitness

and meditation, spirituality, all that stuff really committed 21 years ago because I was an incredible drug addict living in Hollywood and that's when the world kind of came crashing down on me and I was sort of forced at first to learn how to cleanse and, you know, just live a clean lifestyle in all ways and also to adopt different spiritual practices and yoga and all of that stuff. But even before that, it's funny, I was thinking about this the other day,

even when I was smoking crackle all night around the streets of Hollywood, still every day I would go get a big green juice and I was doing super foods. I'd always had to take huge pills, like handfuls of vitamins and stuff like that and my friends would always clown on' me like, okay, dude. You're a dick to the heroin.

You're a crackhead. You smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. But you take you both out of this vitamin, so. You're a full on fucking alcohol. Like you're drunk off your ass every damn night. And then why do you bother doing this stuff? But I knew, I was like, well, I know I'm killing myself. I'm not that delusional. And so I thought, well, I'll just add all this stuff, but I knew, I know I'm killing myself, I'm not that delusional, and so I thought,

well, I'll just add all this stuff in. So for about the last five years before I really hit bottom and became fully committed to this, I was also sort of learning about health and stuff weirdly enough. What was the impetus? What was the final impetus? You said force, they got forced into this.

No, fuck that, go back even further. I want to know what led you to even get addicted to all those things. Well, you know, when I was, I think it's a pretty classic case. When I was a kid, I experienced a lot of trauma. I mean, parents were divorced when I was three, was sexually abused by a babysitter when I was around five or six.

Right after that, I immediately started getting kicked out of school. I started lighting fires, reading, you know, porno magazines, hitting kids in the head with the fucking two by four. Like I was just, I went nuts after- It hit angry kid. Yeah, after that, after I had that experience,

and I didn't tell anyone, you know, of course this is like 1975 or something, there wasn't therapy and shit like that now, if your kid starts acting now, there'd be an indication that he had experienced some trauma or something so I just held it in and just you know I had to find a way to Medicaid because I felt so much shame and guilt and just I didn't know how to like compute what had happened to me and that was like kind of when things got set off and then that same babysitter I don't know if I tried it was Was it a slow process or did you start off with, oh, ever occasionally doing this

because it was kind of... No, it was right away. It was like full one babysitter. I don't remember if I smoked it or not, but the first time I saw weed, I was like five or six. And I remember what a bong look like. There was like bong hits at me. I don't remember if I had any,

but I do remember having my first drink when I was about six. Damn. And also attempting to have sex with little girls in the neighborhood. I didn't know how to follow through, but we'd get naked and get in bed growing up. I mean, I was like, I had a really weird childhood.

But as far as the drug thing, probably when I was maybe eight or nine, I grew up in Northern California in the 70s and what happened in in the Bayer? Oh, well fuck we're in the Bayer. I don't have to explain it to you. We're in San Jose. I totally forgot. We're in this dark room. Like I don't know where we are At the end you're in the cube. Yeah, and after the summer of love You know all the hippies from the hate kind of migrated up north into Sonoma and Mendocino, and they were all, you know, into drugs. And so the culture that I grew up in, in Sabastopol and Santa Rosa and up there, there's just everyone grueed.

I remember just rummaging through, you know, everyone's parents' shit when they would leave the house, you go under the mattress, you go into closets. I mean, we would find huge bricks of hash. We'd find like, literally like a half pound of coke, like fresh off the boat. And my mom's boyfriend was a drug dealer. I mean, just copious amounts of drugs were available. And so you combine the availability and just the trauma and the dysfunction in my family and in my home. And I love my parents. We all has since been forgiven, but you know, there were issues there. And there's a lot of it.

Dude, like my mom's boyfriend was a dealer and he eventually went to prison. He got busted. He dealt to the hell's angels and that was like the scene. It was like bikers and then in my little neighborhood was bikers and what we used to call low riders. Now you call them cholos. They didn't used to have shaved heads. They had like long hair with a hair net, you, yeah and writing low-writers and you know that was the scene

So I would steal drugs from him and then sell them to the gangs and how old are you at this point your life? Are you wrong? Well, I started smoking weed like on the rag and drinking and stuff probably eight or nine and then by the shit That is so young Dude, it is it's weird because when I see a, like, homies of mine have kids that are that, and I'm like, oh my God. Imagine that kid, like, you know, snorting Coke, it's like, what?

Even smoking weed or getting drunk, it's like weird. But by the time all the gnarly shit started happening was like 12 or 13. And that's when I was in the neighborhood with, you know, there's a lot of gangs and just really nasty shit going on. And, yeah, I used to have funny others, not funny, it's funny now at the time,

it'd be kind of tragic, but my mom's boyfriend, the dealer that eventually got busted. I mean, he used to go get the Coke in Badega Bay, like off the boat from Colombia. Holy shit. Yeah, so it's good Coke, I gotta say. It was not like, it was holding. Yeah, at least my first, you know, it's funny

because I did like really good like to do a coke snub. Yeah, totally. I mean, that one I moved to LA in 89. I was like, whatever you guys, that's not Coke. I was in the Rock and Rolls-N-Pee. Like, dude, you want some blows? Like, what the fuck is this?

No, this has been stepped on like 500 times. But, you know, he used to run guns too. So, wow. Yeah, this is like, so I'm like 12 years old and I'm not trying to glamourize this, you know, or be sensational. It's just, it's interesting now because my life is so different and the arc of the story is phenomenal as what's happened to me and how happy and successful I am in so many ways. But there was this closet in my mom's room and he used to store all the guns in there, you know? And when he would leave, I would like raid the house

and I'd go in there and he had oozey and shit. And I'd go in there. Yeah, I'd go in there. And I even know how to use guns. You know, my dad was a gun guy, like Hunter and like legit gun guy, not a criminal gun guy, legal guns, you know? So I kind of got it.

Do you pull the trigger or you check the thing? To, you know, but yeah, I'd go out in the back out with the oozey. And it's like in suburbia. That's what so weird. My mom still lives in that house and I'm going, how the fuck did the FBI not show up or something? You know, it's bizarre.

And then I do other shit. Like, this one kid, Jerry, that I hated. We had train tracks behind the house. And I don't know why I hated him. Jerry Ferries to call him. And my mom grounded me because it was like homophobic to say that. But Jerry'd walk behind the house. I don't know why I hated him. Jerry Ferries to call him. My mom grounded me because it was like homophobic to say that. But Jerry'd walk behind the house. I hated that fucker.

So I would like point a gun over the fence and be like, oh, hey, motherfucker. And then I would like firecrackers like behind the fence. Oh my god. Just to see his ass like run down the train tracks. And he'd think I was like, that, that, that, that, that, you know, oh boy, he just grew up. And then eventually so anyway, to fast forward the story,

because we go on all day with crazy shit like that, but eventually I got arrested for breaking an entering. I used to like rob houses. That's how I- Old were you when you got arrested? Uh, 13, I think. Yeah. I used to just case, I used to just case out the neighborhood

for the drugies. If they had long hair and shit, I would break into their house and steal their dope basically. So how old your son right now? He's 12. Fuck. My daughter's eight. Can you say eight or nine?

I know, you can imagine. It's crazy. My daughter doesn't even watch movies with the F word in them. Oh wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Good for you, dude. Well, it's just insane. Yeah.

Yeah, you grew up really fast. Yeah, but the good news is, you know, so I got arrested, I get sent away to this cult boarding school in Idaho, or I mean, this was just like state mandated, just go, yeah, because I was shipped out to live with my dad in Aspen, Colorado, and because I was too, my mom just couldn't handle me and she had her own problems to deal with in that area as well.

And so, yeah, they shipped me out to live with dad, I immediately get busted, breaking into a house. The people came home when I was inside the house. I was doing a fucking home invasion and the people came in. I was like, oh, hey. All right, you know, nice to meet you and I've tried to run and they caught me. And then so I got sent away to this really bizarre school in Northern Idaho, where I was sequestered for two years. And that was great because that kind of put the breaks on my whole trajectory. So it was a good thing. It was. It was weird and a lot of people I think were traumatized by the things that happened at that school quote-unquote

because there was really no school. It was like therapy. But I got it there and at least what were what were some of the rumors about that school. I mean room it was called Rocky Mountain Academy. Put it this way the alumni of Rocky Mountain Academy have Facebook groups that are like survivors of Rocky Mountain Academy. Put it this way, the alumni of Rocky Mountain Academy have Facebook groups that are like survivors of Rocky Mountain Academy. Not like students, or graduates. Is it a lot like, have you seen the movie sleepers? No, I haven't.

Oh shit. Okay, you won't get the reference to it. I gotta see that. Yeah, well, it's about, and I think it's based off a true story, and it's like a boys, it's a boys home, and all the guards, and all the employees were totally molesting all the boys that were going to school there.

Oh shit. Yeah. Thankfully, it wasn't like that. It was more like unqualified armchair therapist that were like ex hippies that were in a personal development and stuff like that. So what was controversial about it is some of their punishment methods would be like,

you'd have to go out and like work on the hill by yourself in the snow and build a trail for 10 hours and you're like 15 years old and they'd have group therapy sessions that were called wraps where you would have to confess all of your, you know, shameful deeds and you being molested and all the weird shit you've done sexually and all that kind of stuff and then, you know, in front of a whole group of your peers, and you'd be screamed at and yelled at and a lot of crying. And it just weird stuff. So it's hardcore. Yeah, like sleep deprivation. They had these things called profetes that were these, like, between two and maybe four or five day

intensives where they'd keep you up all night and make you drink coffee and nudge if you fall asleep. And you all of this brainwashing type stuff but the brainwashing was good. It was like to teach you how to love yourself and be a good person and stuff like that. It wasn't like trying to get them brainwashing to believe in a leader or something.

Is that what really kick started you in the back? Oh wow. Yeah, so when I got out of there, it's not impactful for you. Yeah, when I got it there, I wasn't a little hesher, I was a total stoner, a little hesher had long hair, we're Aussie shirt every day. When I got it there, I, you know, I wasn't a little hesher, you know, I was a total stoner little hesher at long hair. We're Aussie shirt every day.

When I got it there, we're like pink polo shirts and at my hair part on the side. You know, I was like, I was reformed. And then I never have that. How long was it? Two years. Oh, okay. That's 14 to 16. Oh, shit.

So for two years, you're kind of going through all. Yeah, dude. A lot. That's intense. A lot, you know, just constant therapy, like five day a week, massive therapy sessions. And it, it, it turned me around, but here's the problem.

They didn't have unfortunately like addiction recovery integrated into that. It was just like, well, using bad, you shouldn't do that cause it creates all these problems. So when I got out, I was like, cool, I'm gonna stay away from that shit, stay away from the bad kids when they threw me back in a public high school in the small ass town

in a basalt, Colorado, outside of Aspen. So I kind of knew that, but I didn't know that I had that gene, that dope-fein gene. And so I remember my 17th birthday, my friends like, dude, just take a head, just take a head. And they were all smoking weed. And I was like, I don't do that. And I was holding out on willpower and dude,

you said did it happen all at once? This is when I really saw the power of whatever this thing is that I have is, I took like a couple hits off a joint and got so fucking high, because it had been two years since I got high. I was laying on the floor hallucinating just fucking live in the dream.

And from that moment on, I immediately started doing acid in high school and snorting coke and just, you know, we'd go skiing and aspen and take fucking acid and just like, just madness from day one. All in high school. Yeah. My first acid trip was, I came on in home, heck. And like, here's how you work a Tupperware set and it's all melting.

You know? Oh my god. Oh no. So, so fast forward a couple of years, I finally make it to Hollywood. That was the dream, man. I wanted to go hang out with guns and roses and be in the late 80s Hollywood rock scene.

What was the goal when you went over there? Do you have a job in mind? Or are you just like, I'm going to Hollywood? I wanted to be around musicians and I wanted to be able to do drugs without my parents fucking my high up. Wow. And so I moved to Hollywood. Were you super attached to music?

And then where you? Yeah, music was my savior. I mean, that was like the healthy outlet. You know, like the first time I heard Jimmy Hendrix, dude, it was at my uncle's house on vinyl. And my mom used to clean his house in exchange for him babysitting me. And I'll never forget the first time I heard

like purple hay is on fucking vinyl. And she would be vacuuming the house. So she at the other end of the house, so she'd let me turn it up all the way. And it was just like, oh my God, that was my first spiritual experience really. Wow. In a healthy sense. So I knew that I wanted to be a rock star, but I didn't know how to play anything. So I moved to Hollywood within two weeks.

I was doing heroin, maybe like six months, I'm smoking crack. Whoa. Yeah, but I was living the dream because I was hanging out with all these rock stars and kids, you know, like dudes that were on the posters in my Room when I was in high school. I mean, it's like I merely just fell into like the coolest rock scene It was hanging out with my heroes and then they taught me how to play bass and I started playing in bands and how to really great time Sling much ass and just living the dream. I had my fake ID I was 19 so I got into every club,

and everyone kind of took me under their wings because I was the new kid in town, and I was a sweet kid, and I had been reformed in that boarding school, so I didn't steal anymore. I didn't do like fucked up shit. I just wanted to get high and peace, and like be left alone, you know, and just party.

So the school was effective anyway, but to the point, as it just it's along and probably interesting story, but there's so much positive stuff on the other side of that. When I was 26th, the pivotal moment was, Sal, is that I just got to this point where the self hatred and the shame and the self loathing got to be so extreme that there was no amount of drugs that could kill it anymore. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I would be to the point of almost an overdose,

but I couldn't get that euphoric relief, or even that numbness that I was always looking for. So you literally lost the good part of the drug. Yeah, yeah, cause all, you know, I don't think, I'm not like a sober person who thinks drugs are bad. Like you guys are like, oh, he's smoking, I'm like, great, I wish I could smoke weed. I would if I could.

Right. You have a really cool attitude for someone who's been through everything that you've been through with it. Well, dude, I mean, it's live and let live. You know, I and I'm being totally honest. If I could smoke weed here and there and not end up a heroin addict again, I would. Weeds great. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, it's not the poison, it's the dose.

That's the thing. I mean, this morning I took like one tenth of a gram of psilocybin. Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna get high. I'm 21 years sober, dude. I know when I'm crossing a fucking line and when I'm not.

So I'm not definitely not a dogmatic or judgemental sober. I mean, how could I judge someone who's like using drugs, dude? I was like, at first half of my life, that's a lot of self-awareness, though. When did that really start to happen for you work? Because that was one of the things, when sound I came down,

one of the things I really, really liked about you was, you're one of the most authentic people that I've had the opportunity to meet. And we've met a lot of people, man. And you could just sense that when you meet somebody who's just, you've obviously been extremely vulnerable and put yourself out there. Where did that come from?

Where did you start to become so introspective? When you start, well, because my, you know, I'm not being dramatic, but my life was on the line in a very real sense. When I was 26, that's when this, I kind of had this spiritual awakening. It's just like, everything I say, I'm like, and that's another story. And that's another story, but there are so many sort of through lines, but I think in order for any, any human being to overcome adversity,

you really put in a position where you have to face the truth about yourself, and that's, you know, literally the first step in getting over any addiction is admitting to yourself that you have a problem. And so that was that first moment of self honesty and self awareness was like, I can't beat this thing. Cause I tried. It's like I tried to moderate, like, I'll just stay

off the hard stuff. You know, if I could just smoke weed, I'll be cool. I tried that for years. And then if I would smoke weed, it's like, well, I have one beer, I have one beer, then I have 20 beers. And then I'm like, this is boring. Let's snort some coke. Cool. Someone's got a line. I do a couple. And then I'm like, this is boring. Let's snort some Coke. Cool, someone's got a line.

I do a couple lines. I'm like, this is boring. Let's smoke some Coke. Smoke some Coke. I'm like, wow, I'm fucking, my heart's beating out of my chest. We better get some heroin. And then that goes that cycle, you know? So the first self-awareness is like, wow,

I'm like seriously an addict, and there's no moderating, there's no controlling. And then that kind of of was the first requirement was then to start looking deeper. Well, why do I do drugs? Like, why do I need to be high all the time? Why can't I sit in a room with guys like you and just hang out?

Why do I have to be fucked up to go to the grocery store? You know what I mean? It's like, I literally was so uncomfortable and had so much self-hatred and self-loathing, and just I felt so awkward in my skin that I had to start looking deeper. What is that? Oh, it's the trauma when I was a kid. It's the way that my mind works that I'm perpetually in fight or flight.

I'm always in fear. I have so much anger and hostility and rage buried inside. So I had to start to really look inwardly through meditation and different spiritual practices and just addiction recovery in general in order at first just to survive. And then I started to realize like, wow, I actually don't need any of those crutches anymore

over the years I started to really use that. So I appreciate the highest compliment I think anyone could give someone is like, they're real. You don't have to like me, but I would, I'd rather be respected than liked, you know what I mean. And if someone's real, you might go, guys, a douche, I don't believe with anything he said, you know, I don't believe in anything that he believes in. He's on a different path, whatever, but like, hey, he's real at least. Right, right.

You know, and that's, that's what I appreciate. And people too, is that real? Did you have a book or a mentor or something that time, that pivotal time in your life was or something that you were consuming that made you like really absorb all that and kind of change your ways? Well, the very first part of that,

and it's, you know, it's delicate because of the nature of the principle of anonymity. But I'll just say that I got really involved in addiction recovery. I went to a treatment center, and when you go to a treatment center, they send you out of there, and like, if you wanna keep this 28 days that you have,

you need to go to meetings and do the whole recovery thing. And so I proceeded to do that. So my gateway into the life that I'm living now has been learning spiritual principles, dude. One of them being self-honesty and self-awareness. That's a spiritual truth. It's a universal truth. And so I started surrounding myself with other sober people and building and becoming part of a community that supported my spiritual growth. Because soon after I got sober, I realized like, oh shit, unfortunately, the drugs weren't what the problem was.

I'm the problem. Wherever I go, there I am. Because I have a mind that constantly tortures me. I mean, the idea, dude, back in the day, the idea of being present, like being able to have a conversation with you, look you in the eye and stay here without my mind, kidnapping me and taking me into some future

Armageddon or some past pain or trauma or something is like totally impossible. What do you think about today? Like kids today with technology and things like that and that that ability to be able to do that I think it's harder today than it even was back when we were unsure and I have a rough upbringing too And so I can totally connect to a lot of your story. But what do you think about the kids today with this, all these things that we're constantly attached to with these fake dopamine rushes that we're getting all the time?

What do you think, how challenging it is for them to become completely present? Man, it's one of the things, I don't have kids, I'm 47, and I was always pretty afraid of having kids, I think, just because I was so self-centered, to be honest, I was just like, I don't wanna have my schedule interrupted.

I'm very spontaneous, I just kinda live on the fly. So I don't have kids myself, but I think, I would probably like to at some point, if the circumstances kind of dictated that and everything fell into place naturally. And I think about that like, dude, just coming up in the 70s and 80s was challenging with all of the negative influence,

but just the fact that, you know, like your 10 year old boy can like open up his iPhone and watch like freaking gang bangs in two seconds, you know, it's like, dude, shit, if I would have been turned loose with an iPhone when I was a kid who knows if I ever would have pulled my head out of that thing, you know? So it is challenging.

I think it's a parent man, and I'm no expert on the subject, but wow, you got to really instill in that kid, that love and that connection, that human connection, and I think also God, how important it would be to build some sort of sense of community around that kid. Because I think a lot of the neur neurosis we have is a society whether it Manifest in addictions are just general craziness is really a lack of human connection Right, you know, I'm saying we've evolved to hang in tribes of 40 50 people for our entire life

Get hugs all day long get human touch looking people's eyes that that human connection. I feel is really Is really what we've lost. And so man, it's a challenging thing as a parent. You got to really foster that. And I think that'd be easier to do in a smaller town. Quite frankly, I mean, I think if I had kids, I probably wouldn't live in the middle of Hollywood like I do. At least get on the outskirts, like have a little more of a tight knit community that's not so overwhelming. But yeah, the screen time is difficult for me. I'm like, oh my god, you can.

That's how I feel. I feel the same way. I can't imagine what it's like for a young teenage boy or girl. It's got to be crazy. How hard was the transition into you starting to date sober? So if you did this rock star, this rock star lifestyle, banging all these girls and doing all this coke and living with all these rock stars Then also and I'm sober you got to probably learn learn yourself

Dude, what was that like that is so awesome bro? No one has ever asked me that question Yeah, and you know what I'll be honest. It was terrifying dude I remember the first girl that I attempted to have sex with when I was sober because I hadn't I hadn't I had actually never had sex over The first time I did it you know where the first you know what place was when I lost my virginity for the first time San Jose, California Yeah, it's you know and it's funny and I won't I used to name her name and then I'm like, whoa She's still around actually looked her up on Facebook and I was like, hey, what's up?

She lives somewhere around here. Still, and I was like, sorry I ghosted, kind of a pattern. So what was this? So the first time I tried to have sex, it was like, dude, it was like that thing in high school. Is it gonna work? Is it gonna happen?

Am I gonna do my thing too fast? Oh, you started having those thoughts. Oh my God, yeah, people. And you're how old at that point? Dude, 26 years old. Right. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was terrifying because I started bony when I was 16 and 86. So I had 10 years of solace just by using bony. I love it. I had 10 years of solid bone time. And it was, but I was all in es size. You know what I mean?

Like I was either, I was, I was definitely always on weed, at least, even if it was like in the, in the, you know, like a wake up bone, I would always, first thing I did right when I wake up is like, bone hits, like just immediately before I even take a piss. So I probably have never even had sex, you know, at that point sober at all, really. Maybe I woke up one day and hadn't taken a bonnet

and slipped it in. So it was terrifying, dude. And that's one of the things I realized it was again. It's like, oh wow, the drugs in alcohol is not my problem. The problem is I feel like shit about myself. I'm like, I have no self worth. I mean, myself worth was like, friend of mine used to say lower than whale shit.

You know, that's as low as you can go. That's a new one for me. And I was just, I would do what it was, is I just, I was so caught up in my head. I had no connection to my body, no connection to my heart. I hadn't started doing yoga yet and getting embodied and like understanding how to harness that energy and control that energy. So how many dates and relationships did you fuck up on the long the way here? Oh my God, dude.

I mean, I think I'm still a fuck. I'm, you know, I'm, you know, it's funny right now, as we stayed in record this, I've taken a break from sex and dating. I'm nine months celibate. And even like yesterday, I was in Whole Foods and I saw this smoke and girl in line. And I was like, oh, now is when I go up and talk to that girl and like say

What's up? And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not doing that right now. I'm taking a decided break just to really regroup but you know My early relationships were were very very flawed dude because I didn't I know one modeled for me how to do that my parents hated each other You know and there were there was all I ever heard from my mom there were, there was, all I ever heard from my mom is like, man or bad. And all I ever heard from my dad is like, women are trying to take your money. You know, so it's like, I had no semblance of a healthy family life to model. So my early relationships were, you know, very, they just thought, you know, it would always you get past the honeymoon phase after, you know, three months, six months, nine months, and then they

would kind of disintegrate. But I also wasn't that interested in having a relationship. I just wanted to have fun. And once I learned how to get out of my head, and I started actually building some self-esteem and learning how to be more authentic and real and communicate with women and date and things like that. And just I got out of that fear state. Then I started to have fun. It was like this sort of late re-burthing in my 30s where I went out and just smashed and had a great time, it was very real.

And I think a lot of the time had a lot of integrity about what I was doing. Like cool, going to date, hey listen, I'm not the guy that's gonna settle down. I'm the guy you have fun with, are you down? They're cool, they're down. And that's kind of the way I lived. But what I'm learning now is really what was going on,

my whole life is I was really terrified of intimacy. I was terrified of being abandoned again. You know, my parents sent me away when I was 14, dude. I never knew that was a abandonment. That shit hurt. I mean, I can feel it in my heart now, just remembering them, dropping me off at that school and being like, peace, you don't have parents anymore.

You know, even my mom shipping me away at 13. She's like, bye, I can't handle you, and she gave me up. And isn't that crazy how something like that had just some myths to pathway in your brain? Oh, dude! It's forever that it's there. Yeah, and so now, you know, in my adult relationships in my 40s, I mean, there's a certain point of intimacy

that I get to and I'm like, yeah, my heart's becoming open and vulnerable and it's really scary and that's why I'm taking a break now is to really examine where I am in my life. Now that I'm at a point where why really would like the experience of, you know, the companionship. Yeah, companionship and closeness and trust and loyalty and a real thing.

And I've had some of those. I mean, I've had a few great relationships in the past few years. You know, they ended for whatever reason, but most of them not tragically, just kind of like, yeah, we're, this is not working anymore and we're cool, you know. What do you learn from these relationships?

I think the most meaningful lesson that I've learned is kind of what I was just describing. I'm up here in San Jose with my business partner, Lauren, and we own a fashion school together and we were together for five years. And that was, I think my happiest and healthiest relationship. It's definitely flawed in many ways,

but that's the first time I really opened my heart. And even like, you know, as an adult, told someone that I love them and said, I mean, this how twisted I was, dude, I was very... Well, you'd call it psychological terms, or therapeutic terms as a love avoidant. And I even use sex as a way of avoiding intimacy, like cool. As long as I have a few girls that I'm kind of seen

and I'm honest with them and open with them, I don't feel like I'm out of integrity with that. It's like a way for me to have certain needs met but not really to be vulnerable and open to getting hurt. So at any given time if any one of them was like, I'm done with you. I'd be like next. Okay. I don't care because my heart wasn't. I hadn't let them in. So what I learned and I think in that in that main relationship with Lauren and Thankfully, we're still great friends. You know, we can't be here together to this Tony Robbins thing. It's awesome.

We've done a lot of work just to maintain our business relationship and our friendship. But I really learned how unavailable I was, dude. It's just like I had so much unconscious fear about being left, about being abandoned, about being betrayed, about being hurt, and just being open, and being vulnerable, about being betrayed, about being hurt, and just being open, and being vulnerable, and willing to take those arrows. And so since that ended, which was, I don't

know, four years ago or something like that, I've had a couple attempts at intimate relationships in which I really opened my heart. But I wasn't wise, I think, in the way that I approached the relationship. So the first lesson is, wow, I've been very closed off. And I'm really withholding from myself and a really rich experience in life, which is allowing myself to deeply love someone and allow someone to deeply love me and to be totally seen. You know, like you said, wow, you're authentic. Yeah, I am. I'm real, but I'm only gonna let you into a certain point because it gets too scary when you really, really see the real me. And I've done that a couple of times,

but I think the error there and the second huge lesson is, for me, and this is my own store, I don't proselytize or tell other people how to do it, but the way I enter relationships is cool. You look attractive, let's fuck around a little bit. See if we have chemistry. Cool, we have chemistry. Let's have sex right away.

And if the sex is good, let's build on that. You know, the foundation has always been physical. And that might work for some people, but that has not turned out for me in the kind of relationship that I want that has stability. Because what happens for me is when my hormones are all fired up and that honeymoon period's happening and you're having sex five times a day and it's like you're in that, the newness of it. because what happens for me is when my hormones are all fired up and that honeymoon period's happening and you're having sex five times a day and it's like you're in that, uh-huh, the newness of it. It's a drug.

Yeah, and what happens is it's like, I'm fucking Stevie Wonder. In the new relationship, bro, I can't see shit. In other words, I don't see the person's character. I don't see their past trauma. And if they've dealt with it, daddy family issues abandoning issues addiction issues psychosis issues whatever, you know, and I Don't know I think that's that's something that I'm looking forward to when I kind of you know Get back on the horse so to speak is like wow I really am very committed to approaching relationship in a different way. Or meet someone, go old school, man. Date for a while, really get to know them, to see if we are kind of at the same place in life

and have the same values. I think that's the important thing for me. It's funny how you're going like old school, you know what I mean? Like old school conservative, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a reason why those principles are there, and they've lasted, you know, the test of time, we're in a very sex positive culture now,

and I bought into that, was like,, oh, fuck being monogamous. Dude, I've had like open relationships and all kinds of shit. Man, I've been to orgies and everything you can imagine trying to figure out how you do this sex and intimacy and relationship thing, and none of it has really been satisfactory in the long run. It hasn't been what I really want. Do you think there's a bit of a crisis going on right now with that where you see people reverting back to those values because it's so sex positive now?

There probably is a rubber band whiplash effect going on. I mean, it's hard for me to see collectively, but definitely, subjectively in my own life. And what's weird is all my homies that are, what do you guys like in your 30s, late 30s, from mid 30s? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All my friends are, I don't think I have, I have a couple of friends my age that are late 40s, maybe approaching 50, but most of my homies are kind of like eight, 10 years younger than me for whatever reason. Maybe I'm immature. We're on the same wavelength. I really am in many ways. But we're all on the same page. Like, dude, one of my friends is getting engaged.

I mean, he was intimate fairly quickly, but she's a solid girl. And it was apparent she had good values, a good family. She was not a fluszy, you know what I'm saying? She's a quality, not that fluszy's aren't a quality person, but let's just say she was on the same page in terms of her values, you know? But like three of my other buddies,

they've met girls, they waited, they're taking it slow, they're really getting to know them. It's like we're all, we've talked about it, but everyone's sort of on the same wavelength, that's really interesting. So this is shit, my dad's been telling me for 30 years. There's wisdom in that, you know? Yeah, every time I, you know,

I call him, whining, crying about the breakup. He's like, I told you, dude, you're thinking with your lower brain. You're gonna get it. Same thing's gonna happen every time. Like, no, this one's different, dad, you don't understand, it's like, there you go. You're celibate, but you're still open to meeting someone.

Not right now. Not right now. So you're off everything. Yeah, until, until, well, what if it happens? What if you meet someone in the psych, boom. Well, I don't, I don't get numbers, I don't engage. I don't flirt. So that's not going to happen. It's not because I'm closed my heart or something like that. It's because I'm doing a lot of inner work. Like you said, the introspection. I'm, dude, I'm looking at my patterns and I'm, I'm really taking time

to learn how to be comfortable with myself. and I'm really taking time to learn how to be comfortable with myself. I've been historically very lonely, dude. I mean, I could be around people sometimes, but I still feel alone and afraid. I'm just being straight up. So I sit at home and I'm like, this is uncomfortable. Where's my phone? Let me text a girl. Let me get a girl over here. And it's like, it's not even if I'm honest with that girl, quote unquote,

and like, hey, this is what it is, it's still pretty empty. And that's not what they really want. They might be like, oh yeah, cool, I'm sex positive, I'm a single young girl, like I can do what the fuck I want, go hook up with this guy. Dude, I really don't think that's what anyone really is looking for in the long run, because it's such a temporary thing, you know,

it's like scratching an itch. And then, what if the mosquito bite was gone? You know what I'm saying? There's no itch to scratch. What if I'm contented with being comfortable in solitude and I don't feel lonely or afraid or you know my problems are overwhelming me. It's like I really want to build a foundation within myself and when I feel ready to put myself back on the market so to speak I really feel like I need to know that I have the self worth, that I'm comfortable being alone, so that I don't become needy,

and throw my standards out the window or lose my values or my integrity because I'm lonely and needy or horny or whatever. It's like I really want to be a man that can stand on my own two feet and feel like I'm fucking cool with or without. Now let me make a decision from that place of power rather than horningness, loneliness, etc. Is that makes sense? Did you come up with your own strategy? Is this your own strategy or is there something that you've read? I mean, I think it's just,

I talk to guys who are doing it right. My dad, you know, I mean, he's on his third marriage, but it's a good one, man. They have a good relationship. They really love one another. They communicate so well. They have so much respect for one another. He cherishes her so much. She respects him so much.

My mentor, Jeff Cobra, who's a meditation teacher and an actor in LA, I don't know. He's been married maybe as long as my dad, 15 years or something. They're very happy, very stable. So I talk to the elders man, I'm like, how are you doing it? Cause whatever you got going looks really good about now.

Cause it used to be, here's the other thing too, I was so afraid of like losing my freedom bro. And I would be in long term relationships and just straight up from the first date, be like, okay, cool. So seems like we're getting along just so you know, I'm not down with monogamy I'm not gonna marry you ever not gonna have kids ever how's that sound and they're like cool I'll explore that and then after a while they're like oh, yeah, no, this isn't working

You know, there's not a lot of women and that aren't very narcissistic or insecure They're gonna go along with that for the long haul so I'm looking at those guys going wow, man dude, I've been afraid to commit and settle down because I'm like afraid of losing my freedom, but what does that freedom really get you? It's like, so you bust a nut here and there, it's like, what the fuck is that? Like how meaningful is that after a while?

Whereas those moments of true connection and intimacy I've had in the past couple of years, there have been a few occasions where I'm like, whoa, this is way more valuable than what I think I'm like giving up. It's a trade off, but it's a worthwhile, it's a much deeper level of connection and it's worth it. When you find it, it's totally worth it, But to get it, you have to really love yourself. First, is that what you're going to do?

Yeah, exactly, dude. Exactly. I mean, I think in many ways, and God, this is so, you know, it's weird to say, hopefully, to talk about this stuff, you implicate certain people that you've been with, you know, so it's like kind of have to skirt around a little bit. But I think because of my own

insecurities and my own fears of commitment and things like that, there have been times when I've sold myself short, you know, because my view of myself, myself valuation has been skewed. And it's also due to the fact that it's skewed because I'm always looking on what I need to work on next. I meet people like, oh my god, dude, you have so much wisdom and experience and you're so awesome, like what? Yeah, but I can't put my phone down. I'm just looking at my phone addiction and that's how I'm basing my level of development

because I'm always looking at the pile of coal yet to be shoveled, not the 400 fucking piles of coal that I've already shoveled in the past however many years. You see what I mean? So it's interesting because I always feel like, oh man, shit, I got, you know, here's the next thing I need to work on. And the next thing now is really examining my relationship

to sex, intimacy, marriage, kids, family, all that. So through this whole process, have you found, like, this is part of your purpose now, as far as like, conveying, like, what you've gone through and now trying to figure out who you are and how you can sort of pass it on to other people. Yeah, dude, I learned that early on, you know, when I first got sober, it was like,

put your own seatbelt on, put your own oxygen mask on like save your own ass, number one, to the I know itself be true. So whatever it took for me to just not die was priority number one. But in short order, as I started to become a little more stable, I realized like, ah, the only thing that allows me to keep this consciousness that I'm building, you know, my spiritual consciousness, the only thing that allows me to keep that alive and growing and thriving is when I act as a conduit and

am able to transmit my experiences and my knowledge to other people and to really be of service in a meaningful way. And that's why all addiction recovery, like what happens at the top of the pyramid when you've kind of arrived? Oh, guess what? Now your ass is going to help other people because you've been a selfish motherfucker your whole life. You know, and really like in any, I think in an almost all psychological pathology and addiction at the root of it is just narcissism's extreme selfishness and self-centeredness.

And it's because of that survival mechanism, you know, that we all have those instincts of just taking over and it gets down to that core like me, me, me, me, me. So yeah, in everything that I go through and it's a great question because this is this is how I'm able to not only survive but actually really sort of enjoy adversity now like going through a breakup having a career issue. It's painful, it sucks. There's times every couple years where I go through this huge upheaval, but dude I know that in there where I go through this huge upheaval, but dude, I know that in there, our nuggets of wisdom and experience

that are really valuable for me to be able to help other people to go through. And so I guess, yeah, it's probably why a lot of my friends are younger, I don't wanna say like, oh, I'm the leader of the group or something, it's kind of weird, but I am older and I am sort of the guy that a lot of my buddies go to.

We should be like this. You've been through a lot, you know? And, yeah, I haven't been through a lot of shit. And also there's things that I learned from them. I mean, my friend James that's engaged in, I'm like, how do you do it? You know, like, you guys don't fight. Well, you know, it's like, I give him tips

and he gives me tips. So it's a two way thing, but I mean, dude, if there was like one takeaway, how do you have a happy meaningful life? It's like, you gotta serve, man. And that's what's so great about having my podcast is, I'm sure you guys know, is all I really do now is produce content that educates and inspires people

to achieve more well-being, you know, a more peaceful mind, a spiritual connection, whatever that looks like for people. Is that the main motivation? Was that the main motivation for the podcast? Yeah, dude, I have so much to share and I'm also just, I'm so committed to learning more and growing more myself.

So the podcast is like, what a great medium for both of those, right? Yeah, dude, it's also just like I game the system and I get to talk to some of the most brilliant people on the planet that would maybe never talk to me if there was a microphone between us. So it's like, I started to realize early on. I was like, oh shit, when you have a show,

you can get access to really brilliant people. And so now I get to sit down with people. And when I think that's why my show has been successful is because I only have people on that I'm really, really interested in learning from, like you guys, when you guys came on my show, it's like, you know, your people reached out, hey, these guys are gonna be in LA, they wanna do shows,

like, let me check them out. I was like, oh, these guys have something I wanna know about. Like, fitness has not been my area of expertise in my life, so let's talk about that and get the real deal. And we had a great show. And I learned a shitload from you guys. I could have gone off, oh, I need to get testosterone, or I used to shoot HGH and my belly, you guys are like, yeah, I was like, okay, so, you know, whatever ketosis, whatever

shit we talked about, I'm literally asking you guys questions because I want to know the answer. And so that passion that I have to learn and to grow translates to the audience and they get, you know, there's a certain magnetism to passion. So yeah. Oh, absolutely. And we've said this so many times on the show. I, podcasting is so therapeutic. I went through some of the most difficult times in my life

when we started Mind Pump. I went through a divorce after a 15 year marriage and I, being on the podcast is a big reason why I was able to, I guess, process through all that. And so my question to you is, do you find that same therapeutic value from podcasting yourself? Do you see the,

do you get that kind of value from it? Do you get the therapy from talking to these guests and being able to share your story? Or listening to your own story back. Like a lot of times I'll do an episode, and I go back, and I'm like, I hear myself say something, and they're like, do you really believe that? Is that how you feel?

And like, question what I'm saying, I think it's great for that. Have you felt that? Absolutely, dude. I mean, I'm not just interviewing the people, I'm a student, and I really apply what they talk about. Like, one of the, in terms of relationships, one guest that's been on twice that I've learned so much from is John Gray,

the author of Menor from Mars, Womenor from Venus. Yeah, and you know, I remember that scene that book around, I was maybe a teenager, so I was like, that's for a lot of people. I was like, yeah, whatever. I mean, I never had any reason to read it. Dude, I mean, I've learned so much from him. It has been like a therapy session

because I'm asking questions that are relevant to my life. I'm never like, oh, I wonder what the audience wants to hear. Let me play to them, like play to the crowd kind of thing. I'm like, that never works. When you play music, you gotta play the set that you wanna play, that you feel. You can't play the set that, oh, they want it. You got to throw in a couple of hits,

but it's like, you know, who is that that said, oh man, oh David Bowie Bowie goes back to that thing. David Bowie, there was an interview with him shortly before he died and it said, you know, if you could change anything you've done in your career, what would it be? And he said, immediately he said, playing to the audience, you know, those shows where I played or put on an album according to what the market wanted or what the fans wanted rather than like what I felt and what I was passionate about. So that's how the interviews are.

Stay authentic, man. Yeah, that's how the interviews are to me. It's like, when I sit down and formulate my questions, like when I interviewed you guys, like, well, what do I really want to know? If I could sit down with these guys with no microphones and I want to extrapolate all the knowledge you guys have put together in all the years

you've been doing this and fitness and wellness and all the stuff you're up to. What do I really want to know? It is a therapy session and a lesson for me, first and foremost. Have you recorded any podcasts where afterwards you listen to it and you go, oh shit, I sound like that. What did I say there? Were you revealed things to yourself after the fact?

I think so. Yeah. I listen to every one of my shows because I'm always looking to improve. One of the things I've been working on, for example, is not swearing so much. Your guys' show, you guys seem to swear a lot. I'm like, cool, I'm gonna cut loose.

I'm probably like double swear in this, but in my delivery and learning how to be concise and not say, um, you know, like all that shit, filler words to really get better at the delivery. So I do listen back to them and also interviews I do I listen back to for the same reason. And it is interesting to watch. Yeah, if I can still you're already way sharper since the last time. Yeah, oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe it's the psilocybin. I'll be like laughing. Well, you got a lot of shows into your belt now.

I do. I don't know how many of you had at that point when we got linked up the first time. Yeah, how long you been on air now? It'll be two years, June 6th. For us, I think the big, it was like after a year, there was a huge growth spurt in our talent or I guess our ability. Yeah.

And then it was like the, after the second year, there was another big growth spurt where I just noticed we're so much better. Yeah, are you noticing that with yourself? Or you just go through these periods where you're like, whoa, I'm way better I think so and I also I also take The feedback that I get if any of it is ever critical of course most people that are gonna take the time to reach out I'm like you're awesome don't change the thing Someone doesn't like it. They're just like what is this shit? And they just probably turned it off. They're not gonna be motivated to like critique you.

But can you assure some of those criticisms? Yeah, I always get the same one. What? Which is probably relevant even to your tear today. Cause you asked me a question, I'm gonna have for 45 minutes. Yeah. I get it.

I was like, I just, it works with mind pump. Cause I catch you, you doing that? I just interrupt you. Yeah, that's good. I got you. I got your that? I just interrupt you. Yeah, that's good. I got you. I got your back. That's good.

Yeah. The negative criticism I've gotten has been that I interrupt my guest too much and that I talk too much about myself and I don't let them just rant. Because I'll often relate a question to a story in my own life. So if I was interviewing you guys. Because how you learn. Yeah. if I was interviewing you guys. Because how you learn. Yeah, if I was interviewing you guys

about something fitness related, I'd be like, hey guys, you know, I can't really do bench presses anymore because I've lost mobility in my left shoulder. I have like, I don't know, do you think it's a torn ligament or da da da da, what would you recommend about this? Because this what happens to me, me, me, me. And I might like have a 30 second question that tells a story about how I injured my shoulder

in high school or some shit, but that's my way of asking the question. You know what I mean? So that's something that I'm working on improving is being more concise in the questions and really allowing the guests some breathing room. But here's what people don't fucking understand. You people that criticize me.

Fuckers is that, and you guys I'm sure of noticed this, sometimes with some guests, their energy's low and they're not experts at being interviewed and it's like you really got a pull key. It's keeping priming them the whole time. Yeah, and so the audience doesn't know like what's going on in me. I'm like, oh this is really boring. Shit. And so I add my energy and like what's going on me. I'm like, oh, this is really boring shit And so I add my energy and my personality and charisma to the mix to try and like bring it out of them and just to make the show Which is probably a pretty good strategy because we all have had had guests like that a lot harder than people think Yeah, it reminds me of when people watch like a fight UFC fight. They're like just punch him

UFC fight, they're like, just punch him. Just punch him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What the fuck? You're a terrible dude. It's a little harder than you think it is, man. That's hilarious, dude, yeah. And we have each other to rely on. So if we have a guest that's a shit guest,

we'll just start talking to ourselves. Yeah, we'll just start talking to ourselves. Yeah, we've got that down because there's three of us. Right. Being solo, that's a lot of pressure. And that's all your only option is that. I could tell a story, you know what I'm saying? So it's been your most difficult guest.

Well, I can't say that. Okay'll just just run out to see it. No, you know what it is sometimes is the ones that are I think more like that are just personalities that are interviewed that are very knowledgeable and have a lot of wisdom, but they're sort of just introverted people. Yeah. Or they're very scientific and, you know, they can write an amazing white paper on XYZ, biohacking technology, whatever. But they're not necessarily a public speaker.

They just happen to be the spokesperson for their company because they've invented some device or whatever. They only go to, and I want to learn about that one, niche product or something like that. You know, so... Well, I'll flip it then. Who's been your best guest? Or your favorite besides us.

Let's see. Number one mind pump. Let me see. God, since I cover sort of the physical and metaphysical, I mean, I have to great minds that are more in the health space and then I have minds that are more on in the health space, and then I have some that are more in the spiritual or psychological. I mean, honestly, I think John Gray is still, I already mentioned him, but that's, he's been on twice, as I said, and he, he's one of my favorites, just because he's an older guy, and he's just so knowledgeable about so many things. I mean,

you can go down any rabbit hole with homey, and he just, like, it's never ending supply of knowledge and he just got a really good heart. He's just a really sweet kind person and is also very intelligent. He's also very humble. You know, it's cool when you meet someone who has a vast well of wisdom, but also doesn't take themselves too seriously. I find that to be a really attractive quality.

Let me see who else has been, God, there's been so many rad ones, dude. I think on the more spiritual level, one of my favorites was my teacher, Jeff Cobra. We did a really long, like two hour episode and he's been meditating for 30, for good years or something like that. And he's just on another level, but he's also, again, very relatable and is able to describe

some pretty esoteric concepts and ideas in a way where you're like, oh, I get that. I can do that. And that one was very meaningful to me, also just because he's been really helpful. He taught me how to meditate in a new way, like six, six years ago, Vedic meditation. And that was really good. I have one actually. I'll give one more. I have one coming out next Tuesday, actually, with Daniel Vitalis, who's a friend of mine. And he's been on the show two other times, but in this particular episode, we did a three

hour, and this is going to sound crazy. We did a three hour interview, all about water. What? Yeah, just all about water. All of the different options for drinking water, bathing water, what water is, what it does, filters, spring water, the whole, like water, kind of the whole topic. I mean, three hours isn't even enough to talk about something so weird and mysterious. We just kind of take water for, oh yeah, give me a glass of water.

Not all water is created equal and we don't even really scientifically kind of know what it is. There's this fourth phase of water, for example. Yeah, give us a little sneak peek. Well, you know, basically what fourth phase of water is called exclusion zone water. I don't know if it was discovered by, but there's a guy named Gerald Pollock who wrote a book called the fourth phase of water and we know about gas, solid and liquid water. There's a fourth phase which is gel water.

It's really trippy. I have a device called a nanovie actually to my car. I drive around with it. And it makes this fourth phase of water is gel water. It's really trippy. I have a device called a NanoV, actually it's in my car, I drive around with it. And it makes this fourth phase of water, and you inhale it, it's another... Oh, I was. You can fucking do it, you're doing it. Are you smoking water? Yeah.

Well that's a thing that I gave up drugs, and everyone's like, do you realize you're addicted to all this biohacking? Should I'm like, yeah, obviously. That's a good question. Do you find yourself trading one for the other? Yeah, absolutely. I do, but I think the thing that lets me get away with that is the fact that I am self-aware about it.

And I see that I have attachments to all of this shit. I mean, if you see my hotel room, dude, it's like, I mean, it's ridiculous. The amount of gear I have in there, and just all this shit, just to be the best me that I can be today showing up for this and the Tony Robbins thing. There's a bunch of shit that I carry around and use. So yeah, I think that I have substituted that to a degree. What was the first part of your question? I don't even remember. Well, Luke, I wanted to ask you, do you still get moments

in your life where you almost feel triggered to want to go back and do drugs and have you been able to pinpoint what those triggers are? Oh, man, I've, you know, I've, I alluded to this earlier. I mentioned that I had this spiritual experience, you know, when I was 26 and it, it's true. The day I checked into rehab, I was totally hammered when I went in there. It was in Sebastopol up in Sonoma County a couple hours from here. And the next morning I woke up and I started, I didn't know what else to do.

This is the only information I was given in terms of tools at that time to just survive that first few days and they said, well, you do this thing, it's called prayer. I was like, what the fuck is that? Pray? Can you guys give me some dilotted or something? I'm not interested in prayer. Do you have another solution? Because I'm in withdrawal, you know?

But I did, man, I was so desperate. And I was like, oh, this is so stupid. Oh my God, I can't believe I'm fucking doing this. And I like, get at the foot of the bed, put my hands together. Oh shit, that's crazy that you actually would all the way down to your knees praying. I only had seen it in the movies.

Right. I mean, that's like, what did you experience when you did that? What I experienced, dude, is what I'm experiencing right now from that moment until now is the presence of God in my life. Did you feel it? Did you see something? What was it? No, unfortunately there wasn't a rad thing like

the windows blew open and the curtains, you know what I mean? Oh, she'll light a train on fire. Yeah, the train's on fire. Luke, this is God. You're good to go, you're sober. No, you know. I got you buddy. Yeah, what happened was, man, that I just,

the craving, you know, to your question, the constant nagging, just like, oh my God, it's like, if anyone has not been addicted to drugs, it's almost like, it's like when you're hangry, you know, when you are really, really hungry or you're, you know, imagine being out in the desert and you're having a water for two days, it's just like, oh my God, give me anything, my soul is on fire, you know,

and there was that constant nagging, and that just went away. Whoa. It just was gone and it's never come back. That's why I don't trip, like, I mean, I don't, none of my friends were like smoke weed all the time. They're not drunk. I mean, I'm not around people that are hammered and like doing hard drugs and stuff like that,

but I never once have been triggered. I've played in bands for 15 years after I've been on tour. I was gonna ask you about that being around music and your association with that and having like spiritual kind of moments with that. Like how hard has that been? Not at all, dude. Not at all because it's funny.

Like these mics dance like. I know, bro. Right in the middle of the face. I'm like, okay, I could have eye contact if I turn sideways. No, you know, man, because I think some people that end up sobering up aren't ready yet. And that's why they go back and forth, back and forth.

And some of them never get it. I mean, the history books are full of prominent people who just couldn't get it. Like Scott Wyland, you know, Stone to Old Piles, fucking dude, couldn't get it. It's dead. Right now, and there's so many of those. I think for me, I always knew that eventually I was going gonna quit that shit, you know? It was just, I had to wait until I was really, really, really ready. And when I was finally ready, I was ready. And so, you know, when I started playing in bands and stuff, when I was first sober, it's just not an option.

I just know what, I know what happens when I touch that shit. It's a very repeatable experiment. And I described the cascade of tragedy before, what happens? Oh, I saw some of the little weed than this, than that, than that. It's like literally like setting up to fucking dominoes. And you think you're hitting the first one down, but you know that like that train of dominoes that goes across the room, you know eventually it's going to hit that last one down. My last domino is down, bro. And it's just, I'm done. So have you helped anybody else become sober?

Oh, yeah. Tons, man. Tons. I mean, that's, that's my lifeblood, dude. That's the thing that matters. Yeah. What do you, what kind of advice? Maybe we have someone listening right now. That's, you know, you might be striking a chord. And I hope so. I hope we are. Yeah. What kind of advice could he give somebody? Well, I think first you got to define, you know, when you're addicted and when you're just a heavy user. I mean, I don't know people that drink quite a bit here and there.

They do drugs occasionally and like, they control it. It doesn't control them and they can do that their whole life. And then some people are in control for a while and then the table is turned and that shit has you. So to me, defining addiction would be something that continually has negative consequences and you literally in and of yourself don't have the power to stop. So if someone finds themselves in that situation where they're losing relationships and family and their health and their vocation and things like that, I mean, if your life's falling apart, I

think the number one thing that worked for me was just getting help Professional help dude because I tried to do it my own little way like I said all right this week I'm just gonna smoke weed. You know, it's like okay that lasts about four hours You know, and then someone's a want to be here. I'm like yeah, it'll be fine, you know It's it's really getting some help whatever that looks like, you know for me It was just a clear cut decision. Check myself in somewhere. Be sequestered away from society and temptation

for 28 days. And that gave me a little head start. Then I could ease back into society. Yeah, maybe in the first couple of months, I wasn't going to bars or going to a concert where people are blazing weed. I removed myself to a degree, but because I had that support system in that community and I got really involved

in recovery, I think that's what got me. So it's like professional help and also just, honestly, it's just going to meetings and kind of doing that thing. I think some people have a hard time with that because they have preconceived ideas about it. But I'll tell you what, dude. Addiction looks like a physical problem, but it's really a spiritual problem. There's

a hole in your soul, man, that you're trying to fill. And so whether that looks like religion, you know, yogic practices, meditation, 12-step recovery groups, however. But I've never repersonally, let me think, if I, if this is really true. Yeah, I can't recall in 21 years, anyone that's a bona fide addict, not someone that kind of got a little squirrely for a while and then reeled it back in, but someone who's like, right or die,

I've never seen someone recover on their own unated will, on their own resources. They've always had to have some sort of spiritual framework of living because it's about the core. It's about the reason that I feel so uncomfortable that I need other shit to make me feel comfortable. So yeah, at first you got to get rid of the symptom. The symptom would be I drink too much, okay? But what's the cause?

The cause is I hate myself. The cause is I still hate other people. I resent my uncle or whatever. It's like, it's that shit that tears you up inside. Or just being constantly full of anxiety and depression and all those things. It's like the self-medicating. Well, your saying's resonating so strongly

because being in fitness for as long as we have, we don't deal with addiction with drugs, but we deal a lot with food addiction. Oh, I'm sure. Addiction to lifestyle is that also have terrible consequences, you know, people who end up with heart disease or diabetes or severe obesity, which is, which also can be very crippling.

Maybe not so acutely, but over time. Right. Can be quite terrible. And, you know, what you're saying resonates because you, it's almost like people are like, oh, if I just lose weight, I'll be happy, but you gotta be happy first,

or at least feel that peace before, and then that's what causes the weight loss. So that's what causes the addiction to dissipate, or at least give you the strength to deal with the addiction. And so it's funny what you're saying is, I mean, when you're talking about drugs, it's so cute, right? It's so like, and food is so accepted, but it's very similar, you're saying is, I mean, when you're talking about drugs, it's so cute, right? It's so like, and food is so accepted,

but it's very similar, you're feeling something and you need to feel that whole of something else, otherwise it's always gonna feel empty. Exactly, dude. That's the thing, it's a symptom. So overeating. I mean, you know, here's the thing too, when I quit doing drugs,

and this goes back, am I addicted to biohacking and supplements and all this shit? It's like, yeah, but it's good for you. So it's easy to excuse, but, dude, when I got sober, I mean, I went ham, I'm on porn and cigarettes, and dude, I used to go to 7-Eleven every night and get two points of hoggendoss and just sit there.

I mean, I'm a thin guy, and I've never been obese, thankfully, but, I mean, I should be, by the way, that I used food and sugar, like you mentioned dopamine, like any, we didn't have cell phones back when I got sober, or maybe they had just come out, but definitely they didn't do what they do now. So I used everything, got addicted to everything else, and then over the years, I've had to learn

how to stop all those things, but it's not even about quitting the behavior. Like you say, it's addressing the underlying issues and the behavior sort of stops. Just over the years, for me, pornography, for example, which I fucking love. I wish I could do it all the time. It's amazing.

You know, it feels really good. It's exciting. I agree. But over the years. But over the years, it's just like, oh man, I don't like the feeling that I get from it. The next day or afterward, it's sort of like, I feel depleted and kind of weird.

And I can't look to grow on the eyes that work in at Starbucks. I just, it's like, doesn't resonate with me anymore. And so that sort of fallen out of my, well, now it is completely out of my life. But it just gradually sort of fell away. The addictive propensity toward that thing. Not because I was like, I need to quit porn. And then I'll be okay. It's more like, I've done things to be okay.

And then porn just kind of falls away. It doesn't resonate with me anymore. Same with smoking cigarettes or really abusing sugar or food or anything like that. How are you handling the cell phone addiction? How's that going? That's a challenge for me, dude. I'll be totally honest, man.

I am on that thing a lot more than I would like to be. It's easy to justify because you have a business revolver. That's the thing. People are like, dude, just get rid of social media. It's like, well, I mean, I could. I probably could still pay my bills by not having an Instagram. But I don't, I think what I do is so personal too.

It's not like a brand. Like say I own a gym, I could hire a social media person, and they could like, you know, show the workouts and highlight clients and shit like that, but like my brand is my lifestyle and everything that I do on the way over here today. Hey, I'm headed to my pump.

This is what we're gonna be up to. It's like there's no way for someone else to really do my social media for me. So it's like, do I let it go? And it's very much like food. It's one of those things, or food addiction, sex addiction, social media for me. So it's like, do I let it go? And it's very much like food. It's one of those things, or food addiction, sex addiction, social media addiction, device addiction, it's tricky because it's not black or white.

You can't stop eating and it's probably not. There's no cold turkey with food. Yeah, we call it, what do they say? Like, you know, it's like, you gotta ride the tiger. You know what I'm saying? It's like sex addiction. I mean, I think I've behaved definitely sexually in my life in ways that are very addictive.

I've done things that I don't really wanna do just cause I'm compelled to do it. And later on, I'm like, oh God, why did I do that? This isn't really an alignment with my values or whatever. But I'm not gonna not have sex forever. And I'm not gonna not have an Instagram account. Like I gotta have it. But that I think is probably the most, aside from all the health

shit that I do, to be honest, but sorry, social media, Instagram, like I really only need to post one thing a day, maybe a couple of stories, but whenever I see my phone, I'm like refresh, refresh, refresh, you know, and it's like, why the fuck am I doing that? It's annoying, but I literally can't stop right now. Did you know that like Instagram releases your likes to you with an algorithm? So it's not literally like how you get it. So for example, like let's say a picture of yours

averages 300 likes a picture or something and you post it up and then 20 minutes go by and you're curious and so you pick your phone back up and boom, 50 likes already And then you put it back down Let's say between the time you put it back down at 20 minutes goes by and you want to pick it up again You get 50 likes again. They feed you 25 likes and they hold that other 25 so they can drip it to you Every time you refresh and come back. They're training you to do that

Damn and those bastards are all from this area. Yeah. And we're in the epicenter of that shit. And they don't let their kids fucking play on that shit. Right. I've heard that. Yeah. They put all kinds of crazy restrictions.

Oh, I've limited my kids on devices because the way I view technology today is the same way that, you know, I view like processed foods when we were kids, like when we were kids, processed foods started getting really popular. There really were nobody really governed it for kids. For breakfast, you have your ego waffle and for lunch, you had your sandwich with your processed, whatever, and your snacks, and whatever. Now we're seeing this obesity epidemic. So now people are like, oh no, you got to feed your kids differently.

It's going to be like that with tech. Nobody knows yet. Everybody's like, they give the iPad to their kid. They leave them in the corner, and we're gonna see in about 15 to 20 years. I call it the iPad nanny. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, here's the other thing about the devices, bro, it's not even the psychological implications, but the fucking blue light and the EMFs. Like, when I see a kid sitting there with a, an iPad, I'm like, dude, it's like Wi-Fi to the dome. If you had an EMF, I mean, even in this studio, if you had an EMF meter, not to get tinfoil hat,

but there's science to back up the fact that it affects your biology negatively. If you rent an EMF meter here, it's like, dude, dude, dude, the shit is on fire with EMF, and every device, I mean, even having this right here, having my phone a foot away and having a two feet away, is like a 200% decrease in the amount of EMF. So I'm like, God, when are we gonna figure out

how to make signals that carry information and data that doesn't actually hurt you? Once the market has pressure because we start to see the actual results of the negative. Right, and then it'll start to, yeah. It's like Apple eventually put in their little fake-ass blue light filter,

which doesn't hardly do anything, but it's better than nothing. It does limit a certain factor. Oh, have you heard it doesn't do very much? I mean, that fucks me up. Well, no, no, no, it's good. It's good. I was feeling good about myself for a big, sure I had that turned on as soon as the sun

goes down. No, it's good, dude. It's good. I can show you a hack on your phone that'll make it all red. Oh, really? Yeah, it's cool. It's in accessibility. It's really hard to get to, and every time I try to show someone, I forget, but one of these days, I'm going to make a post, and like, so I can. It's an accessibility. It's really hard to get to and every time I try to show someone I forget, but

One of these days I'm gonna make a post and like so I can just point people to it No, the night shift is it's an improvement. It's better than nothing But with blue light and I've interviewed a lot of super geeky PhD people on this topic specifically You know the wave length of light that the sun produces is a vast spectrum of light, you know from Infrared invisible to purple to red, green, yellow, every color of the rainbows inherent to natural sunlight, right? And at different times of day, there's different spectrums of that light. So what they've done is they've cut out the gnarliest, really negative, the deleterious blue light, like the lights in your studio, right here.

Those are like a totally unnatural wavelength, the blue light that the sun never produces. The sun's never just pure, pure blue like that. There's always a little bit of violet, or red or something like that to offset it. So the night shift is decent, but here's the difference is that you're still gonna have your melatonin production decreased even with night shift

because there still is a bit of blue and a bit of green. It's just not gonna hurt your eyes or totally shut down your melatonin like that pure blue light. Yeah, interesting. But it's cool, at least Apple acknowledged, like, oh, this is a problem. We're gonna take a step and the new phones

do have the capacity to turn off the blue light 100% and literally make it red, which is the spectrum of fire, obviously. We've talked a little bit about this on the show, but we should dive deeper because this is pretty fascinating. What are some of the biggest changes you've made in your life based on an interview that you've done with your show?

Have you interviewed someone and be like, oh shit, I need to change this thing. The blue light thing has been huge. Interviewing a guy named Dr. Jack Cruz. Specifically, he's a neurosurgeon, and he's a brain surgeon. If you're going to talk to someone, make sure they've got some credentials, you know, before you start, you know, turn off all your lights at night. But he's a guy that's, you know, he's very extreme into light and the damages of that and Wi-Fi. So I made subtle changes like, oh, cool, I'll use night shift and he's like, yeah bro, that's not going to cut it. So he's one that's had a huge impact where, you know,

it's almost, to me, equal to the food you eat is like how your lighting is. So, well, that big of an impact you said. Yeah, it's huge, man, because it affects your circadian rhythm and your hormones and your neurotransmitters. And then those have a cascade effect on your mitochondria and your metabolism and your neurotransmitters. And then those have a cascade effect on your mitochondria and your metabolism and everything. So it's really crazy. For me, I'm just like an earth child hippie dude, right? So I just think about, okay, what makes sense biologically?

I sort of have a paleolithic approach to everything, not just food, but well, let me think have a paleo approach to lighting. Okay, we've evolved at least a couple hundred thousand years, if not say two million years, to rise and wake with the sun. We follow the sun. I mean, all of the ancient cultures, everything they build, every structure is all about the sun.

It's all about astrology, right? About what, a hundred years ago, whenever 125 years ago, when the incandescent light bulb was invented, thank God, now we can make sun at night. And so that was great. But we have not evolved to have sun at night. Our eyes send messages to our brain and our whole biology that indicate what's going on in the environment and what time it is. So if you were in here at midnight under these blue studio lights, your brain thinks it's noon. That fucks you up. And that's just the bottom line. We've evolved to be in front of a fire after the sun goes down. Maybe there's moon light that's bright, you know, it's a reflection of the sun. There's a little

blue light there. There's stars, but for the most part, once it gets dark, sends a signal to our body, whoosh, start making melatonin. I've got these red glasses. They're douchey as fuck, but they're, I mean, they're just, I love the huge, at least you call yourself out on that. Yeah, that's awesome. You are not gonna get laid in these glasses, but you'll sleep like a beast. And they cut out all the blue and all the green.

And it's crazy when you put those things on and then at night, and then you take them off, you're like, oh my God, you really notice all the green and blue spectrums of light, but that's really, we've evolved at night to only see a little fire And it starts to wind down what's crazy is the minute you put those glasses on You stop producing cortisol and you immediately start producing melatonin and then if you took them off and looked at the blue light again You get a cortisol spike. I mean this is science. It's not shit in my house We turn the lights off and go by candlelight when that. Oh, that's amazing

And I so I did that because I have my kids with me half time. And I noticed that they'd have a tough time going to sleep or whatever. And obviously because of our podcast, we talk about all these different things. So we didn't experiment. And we started turning off the lights and going by candlelight and my kids go,

they go to bed right at bedtime, like they want to go to bed. They sleep really well. And then I started sleeping even better, even though I thought I had good sleep before. So it makes a huge impact. That's cool. It makes a massive impact.

Kids are a good experiment for something like that because they're just inherently more natural, I think, because their biology has been in the environment fewer years. You know, so you can see effects like that, whereas we have adaptation, you and I, we've been adapting this shit for 30, whatever, 40 something years.

When it gets dark, oh, you have the ability to flip the light switch. And so we have kind of adapted, but it's a negative adaptation. It's not a positive adaptation to learn how to be unnatural. So I don't, I'm on the candle thing on lock, what I did in my place, and this might be useful. If you go on Amazon, you can search for red or amber bulbs, and I prefer incandescent bulbs. If you can find them, they're a little hard to find because the legality of it, environmental issues

and energy usage and shit like that. LEDs use less energy. That's why they've phased out incandescent, the old school bulbs. But anyway, what I do is in my house, I have like one whole set of lighting at night, that's the night light, and it's all amber and red. And there's other switches that turn on the bright,

normal like blue full spectrum lights So I just know if I go in the bathroom I only hit the bottom switch because that's the amber vanity lights And I'd never hit that other one at night. So that's this break I know I know that's what I'm thinking right now Yeah, no wonder his house was because we're in there at night and it's all red and I'm like this is weird Yeah, but you know what's crazy? Dude as you get used to it It's I've been doing that for years now

and people come over and they come in and they're like, wow, it feels really good, there's really good energy, here's a good vibe and you know, maybe it's because I meditate a lot in there or some shit, but what they don't realize, it's no, I've hacked the lighting, so their biology's going, ah, this is what night is supposed to look and feel like, it feels like fire, you know, relaxing.

Yeah dude, cause it's, I mean, you stop producing cortisol, right? Unless, you know, somebody tries to whack you or something. You can produce it without light, but it's, it stops producing it. And then what's crazy is if in my house, I accidentally hit one of those other switches, I'm like, oh my god, I'm melting. When it's... Yeah, dude, it's so bright, you're like, holy shit, you really get used to it. I got a question for you Luke,

because you've been meditating as part of your spiritual practice for a long time now, right? Yeah, 20-something years, sure. So can we maybe give some tips to our audience about meditation for someone just getting into it? How long should they, what does it look like? What are some good practices? When's the best time to meditate?

Oh yeah, for sure dude. I mean, God, if you like said, what's the number one hack? You know, if someone is not religious or spiritual and they don't want to get too woo-woo and they're not gonna go live in a cave or something like, dude, I don't think any human being can really achieve a high degree of stability and mental health

in this world without taking that time for yourself to meditate, however that looks. So in terms of a lifestyle practice, I mean, honestly, and I'm not even shitting you guys, if you right now offered me a billion dollars cash, a room this size, full of cash, no strings attached, and you said, but you can never meditate ever again for the rest of your life. I would not even fucking hesitate to turn it down. Wow. Oh, dude. There's just, fucking hesitate to turn it down. Wow, really? Oh, dude.

There's just, there's not that it's invaluable. Is that because it's opened so many doors for you? Yeah, it's just, it's the sweetest moment of my day. I meditated this morning for 30 minutes right before I came here. It's like, that has become just, oh, I just value it so highly because that's the time that I use to really get in

touch with who and what I really am, beyond the sensations of the body, the cravings of the body, the chatter of the mind, the emotions, the feelings, the memories, the anticipation of the future, all the thinking and feeling. What does that space look like? What is that space look like? Well, what it is is that there's a gap of separation between who I am, which is a soul. It's not like you have a soul, you are a soul. And then so are you. And so are you.

And so are you. Some people just have varying degrees of awareness and connection to what and who they really are. This is just my world view. Someone might disagree and say, no, we are just a piece of meat with a computer inside our skull. And that's one point of view, which, hey, maybe it's right, I don't know.

For me, what makes life work and be meaningful is to identify that I'm not this body, I'm not these thoughts, I'm not these emotions, and meditation is a means by which to practice. And that's why it's called a practice. It's like practicing piano, practicing guitar. Because it's hard at. Yeah, but I'm going to give you some practical tips. Just please, you know, for sure. Just to create the context is, well, why would I bother taking those tips? That space looks like that I live a lot of my waking hours with an awareness that

I'm the one watching all of the phenomena of my personality, of my ego, of my feelings, of pain, of pleasure, of all that, that there's an awareness that's sort of outside of that watching it all take place. And so, as I sit here and have a conversation with you guys, there's me, my personality, but there's also an awareness of this fucking loop guy sitting here talking. It's hard to explain. Does that make sense? It's like, you're the observer. Yeah, yeah, they call it the witness and things like that, but at a certain stage, it's

almost like there's no separation between all of it. It's not even like, oh, I'm over here kind of watching from above in this room having some outer body experience and there's a soul, me, and a body, me, and a personality, me, and you and you. It all becomes one thing where the observer and the thing being observed are just part of the same phenomenon. I mean, it's a little out there, you know, I admit, but that's what it's like for me subjectively.

So yesterday when I was driving up here, for example, just to give you a benefit of meditation, I fucking put in the wrong, share it in four points. I didn't know there's two. I just put in ways when I left it. I was like, I have four points, send it as a click, and I was fucking them on my way. And then we, I accidentally got off the freeway

right around here by the Tony Robbins Center, whatever sap shit down the street. And I was like, oh, there's the thing. And I was like, wait, the fucking ways has taken us another 15 minutes up the highway here toward the airport one. And then I said to my partner and I was like, wait, the fucking ways has taken us another 15 minutes up the highway here toward the airport one. And then I said to my partner and I was like, right when we got here, I was like, oh, this is sick. We got no traffic the whole way. This is dope. Totally jinxed us.

Then I take the wrong exit and we're just like in this traffic. And I got super irritated and pissed off because I hate being two things I hate being lost and backtracking. I can't stand like, you know, when you run errands, I just have this OCD thing I have to do in an order. I can't like go north, then go back south, then go north again. That fucking drives me nuts. That's a thing from living in LA. That's a LA person thing. Because when you live in LA, that's a huge mistake. That could be a four hour mistake. Yeah. So what that looks like, you know, to your question, what does that gap look like? It's not some, you know, mystical play, although there are mystical experiences too, like

this morning, dude, I went into this deep space of just empty black space where there was no thoughts. And I was just, I would touch on it just periodically during my meditation. And it's literally like you're in outer space and there's just absolute stillness and quiet. And there's not even me, there's no anything else. It's just a oneness feeling. And those are those sweet glimpses.

How does that work in daily life? I get super pissed off, like, oh, god damn it, huh? And I got irritated like a human would. I've got, I still have an animal body that gets frustrated. I'm trapped in the car for five and a half hours, but because of all these years of meditation, I was actually able to see, oh look,

you're getting all pissy and irritable now. Look at you, Luke, I'm watching myself, and then I just was able to let it go and not have my whole night ruined and be a dick to my partner and be grumpy when a chicken in the hotel and have a big fucking drama queen. I was just like, okay, now is me playing irritated game. Okay, hmm, okay, breathe a little bit, breathe.

And then it was just all over, you know? Dude, something like that used to happen to me, and it would take me over for, it would like cascade thoughts and feelings of negativity for days or weeks. I mean, just, I'd get triggered, and I couldn't get out of those emotions of being pissed. I could not stop being pissed. And then you start attracting more shit, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You create a magnetism. So practical advice. I'm meditated for years by doing guided meditations. I'm just trying to learn myself. And now we have more resources. You have an app called Headspace, which is great. I think they're like 10 or 15 minutes.

I've done it a few times. It actually sits around with the homies sometimes. You're like, yeah, you guys want to meditate and the guys that have been trained like I have, we do our practice and the other guys will do like a headspace thing. Have you tried Brain If Emia? No, I haven't.

Oh, you're gonna try them out. Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very some more type of app. We really like the guys from over there. They got a meditation app on there also. Awesome, man. It puts you in the space like it's really weird.

That's dope. Five, 10 minutes into it and you're like in that space. Yeah, so we're lucky now. So I think someone who's more entry level and is like, oh, meditating is boring or it irritates me or I can't make my mind quiet. That just means you need to. Yeah, apps like that are useful,

but I think what's really been profound for me and why I said there's no amount of money or anything you could give me. I mean, I'll, you can like, you like make a deal with the devil and you know, have anything I want if I just give up meditation. I won't, I practice something called Vedic meditation,

which I learned from Jeff Cobra about six years ago. And that is an actual practice. So there's a way that you do it. And there's a certain period of time. You do it 20 minutes. Yeah, I cheat a little and went 30, which you're not really supposed to. But, you know, the tradition,

shit comes from the Himalayas 12,000 years ago or whatever, right? It's a lineage that's been passed down, but you do it twice a day for 20 minutes. And when I learned that, I was like, oh, this is what meditation is, you know, because you have a way that you start it and you have a way that you end it and there's something you do during it. And it's a mantra based meditation. It comes from the same

lineage as TM Transcendental Meditation. The difference between Vedic and TM to my understanding is that TM is sort of like a company. It's an organization that trademarked, no pun intended, a formula of meditation, teaching, you pay for it. It's a whole thing. There's nothing wrong with that. It works for a lot of people. The Vedic thing is a tradition and you do pay for it.

You pay your teacher. It's a sliding scale kind of honor-based system of payment, but you pay your teacher and then you go through like four days of training and then you have that practice and your mantra for the rest of your life. And the mantra meditation to me is really powerful because it settles the mind down because the mind always wants to do something. And you can't stop the mind. I think that's what frustrates people of meditation is they think, oh, if you meditate, it's supposed to be quiet. No, meditation is when you let your mind do whatever the fuck your mind wants to do. It's like trying to stop your heart from beating.

You can good luck with that. You know, it's like trying to stop a pit bull from, you know, swinging on a tire or whatever. It's like, dude, that's what the mind is there to compute and figure shit out. It's just that it overtakes us and takes control of us. And a lot of us have the experience that we are the mind. We get so hypnotized by our thoughts, oftentimes negative thoughts that you think that's all you are. And you lose the perspective that no, I'm a soul who's embodied in this physical meat suit that has a computer inside my head that wants to run my fucking life. And what the mantra does is it tells your mind,

hey, look over here, right over here, watch this, watch this. And you repeat this mantra, say it, you're not supposed to share your mantra in tradition, but let's just say it's home. Oh, I thought that was a mantra. I thought that was a mantra. Yeah. Yo, dummy, look over here.

No, like your mantra would be just say like home, right? So the way it looks inside would subjectively when you're practicing Vedic or TM is like, listeners probably can't even hear that, but the idea is. It's spring home. Yeah, the idea is it's very, very subtle with the least amount of effort possible is you just gently, very subtly

in the recesses of your mind, repeat that mantra. And then you'll start thinking about, oh shit, did I feed the cats? Oh shit, what about that parking ticket? And it's okay, it's okay, mind, you, it's all right, mind, you don't fight the mind, you just come back to the mantra. Gently with the least amount of exertion possible. What happens is your mind kind of just kind of like

trails off doing that thing. And you, this is just the way I look at it, it sort of distracts the mind. And then you're able to dip into that transcendent space as you describe. You're able to get through through these apps and stuff where you're like, oh, whoa, it's quiet down here. It's almost like you're under deep underwater or in space and you're just like, and then it'll get quiet. And then the mind's like, oh shit, I'm late for mind pump.

What time is it? Yeah, so having to meet this morning, I looked at the clock a couple times and I was like oh my going too far out there I'm still in the world you know there's microphones there's an event there should I gotta do but you know the morning the best time to meditate you recommend dude I meditate first thing in the morning I don't have caffeine yeah I love my bulletproof coffee and shit I don't have caffeine before I meditate no matter what if I'm taking any sort of neutropics which I do a lot I don't do those before I meditate, no matter what. If I'm taking any sort of neutropics, which I do a lot,

I don't do those before I meditate. The only thing I did today is I took my little microdose of milk, psilocybin before I meditate. I don't know if that helped. Maybe that's why I went into that dope space. I know, so. But yeah, and I don't check email everything. I do check my texts right when I wake up, just to see,

I'm like, oh shit, am I in the wrong day or something? Cause I'm kinda out there sometimes with scheduling. So I check my texts, when I wake up just to see I'm like, oh shit, am I in the wrong day or something? Cause I'm kinda out there sometimes with scheduling. So I check my texts, I might, I'll admit, I might like, refresh Instagram, no, not might, actually I do that every day. But I definitely know I open my emails or do anything that gets my mind very active. Cause an email will be like, okay, you booked the gig,

you got the check, it'll be something good, and that gets me fired up, it'll be like, hey, you were supposed to do this thing what fuck? Uh, and I'm like ah and I get in that so I don't engage with the world I don't talk to people anyone that ever comes and crashes in my house You know in the spare room or you know girlfriend stays over they know don't talk to me before I meditate. I'm a total dick You know, so that's how I set the foundation and then I you know I infuse in there some prayer and I'll probably read something inspirational,

listen to some spiritual audiobook or, you know, something on personal development a podcast or something inspiring. Then I interface with the world. I think it's smart, because it sets your intention or your energy for the whole day. That's probably, that's why if I do do it,

I like to do it in the morning because it kind of sets the stage for everything else. Ah, dude, God, who, man? I honestly don't see how anyone would survive. Maybe just because I'm more nuts than some. If I don't meditate, I'm bummed. Dude, I'll know it all day. I'm like, oh, yeah.

I just think people don't know what they, they don't know, you know what I mean? So they still realize what they're missing and when they start to do it, I had a client sell it to me once and he told me, because for me it was so hard, because it felt like a waste of time, like, oh, you know, 30 minutes an hour, like I got so many things to do and he said, no, no, you do this for 30 minutes, you'll get an hour back in productivity.

Ah, that's so true. Which sold it to me, and then I went about it the wrong way, because I thought you had to meditate really hard, so I'm like, I'm gonna meditate the fuck out of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is the opposite of what. I'm gonna crash this meditation,

which is a complete opposite. Well, I think, you know what, which is the opposite of what I'm gonna crush this meditation. Yeah, complete opposites Well, I've you know what I find the the afternoon one for me Which is you know, I won't say I do 100% of the time. I'm probably probably about 80% of my days I get that afternoon one between like five and seven somewhere there another 20 minutes and the afternoon one See the morning one is sort of just processing everything that's been jarred loose in your subconscious when you're sleeping and you're sort of off-gassing, you know, whatever needs to be sort of dispeled, you allow the mind just to kind of like

let the air out of the tire, so to speak. And the morning one is that sort of a release and setting the foundation. But the second one is you've already done the morning one, the second one, you've only got any stresses that you've accumulated for that day that you're releasing. And those usually kind of dissipate in the first few minutes, and then you've got a good 15 minutes

after that, where you're really dipping down into that still spot. Yeah, the afternoon one for me is, you know, and the discipline is coming, and go with that. It's like, in the beginning, the first two years, I always did the afternoon one. Then I stopped for like a year. It's like, eh, too busy.

I get in a flow state at five o'clock, I'm crushing a project. It's like, ah, God, I can't stop and meditate right now. This is lame. Now I happen to be back in a phasor I'm doing it. I'm like, oh, dude, the afternoon one is really, really sweet. Very cool. What's in store for you in the future for your podcasts in the future? What are your goals moving ahead? For the Lifestyleist podcast, which is called

the Lifestyleist because it's about bringing together all these bits and pieces of a lifestyle, you know, from the physical health stuff to the metaphysical and the spiritual stuff. So, you know, what the goal has been and continues to be is to take sort of esoteric out their spiritual ideas and practices, bring those guests on and present their teachings in a way that's relatable and applicable to just everyday people. And then taking ideas from health or biohacking and the same thing, you know, going to the super geeks and biohacking and like, translating their message and their practices into something that people can actually just start doing

that day. So that's been the goal and continues to be, but since I live in LA and I come out of the entertainment industry and I was a part of the story I wouldn't talk about was I was a fashion stylist for 17 years. And which means I dressed celebrities and musicians and stuff like that form my job, weird job, but that's what I did. It was fun and all that. But I see the, I'm not really into it, like I don't watch award shows, I'm like,

I don't do anything Hollywood, I'm out at the hot springs, like putting mud all over my self-in-shed, like I don't live like the Hollywood, I'm not into the Hollywood scene, nothing against that, it's just not my thing, but I was able to see the power of influence in that world. So, in terms of goals for my show, I'd really like to get more prominent people in the arts, musicians, actors, celebrities, things like that. But not because they're famous, and I don't want to talk to them about their new album, their new movie, I don't give a shit about that. Everyone else can talk to them about that on entertainment tonight or whatever. I want to ask ones that meditate that have a great

fitness regimen that are into yoga, that are into biohacking, that are into the lifestyle because I know so many celebrities are into that stuff or just recovery. You know, guys like Slashman, sober 12 years, like how's that work, dude? Steven Tyler, another one of my guest goals, you know, that I worked with when I was first sober, when I was first an assistant stylist. I'd like to talk to those people that really have influence and reach. And I think that's because in my life,

Steven Tyler, for example, when I was first sober, I got hired by Aerosmith's stylist, and I was like my first job when I was sober. And they were all sober. And that was really inspiring to me because they weren't fucking dorks. You know, when I got sober, I was sober and they were all sober. And that was really inspiring to me because they weren't fucking dorks. You know, when I got sober I was like, oh my god, I'm a loser now.

Meanwhile I'd been like a total loser. I'm down in the gutter, like looking at someone with a job, like look at these losers. And I'm like panhandling, shitting my pants on Hollywood Boulevard literally. But there's another story. Again, it's another podcast. Yeah, it's another podcast.

But when I met him, I was like, oh my God, dude. Like, this guy's cool as shit. That's Stephen Tyler and he's like, yeah, bro, having no dolls. I was like, whoa, this is cool. And that really influenced me. I was like, wow, they still make great music. They're still famous.

They have all this money. They're having fun, traveling around the world. And they just don't happen to be strung out on drugs This is awesome. So I think there's a lot of power in in that voice. There's so much influence that celebrity have how many how many artists Do you think need the drugs to make their sound? Well, here's the thing man being somebody who's around it appreciates music. I do I think the opposite. When I was a kid and I looked at Jimmy Hendrix or Keith Richards, the Keith Richards was like my main idol still. He's my all-time favorite musician.

But when I was a kid, I thought what made Keith Keith was the drugs. No, Keith was a badass musician when he's a fucking teenager before he ever tried drugs. Hendrix was a badass musician before he ever took LSD. See what I'm saying? It wasn't the LSD that made Hendrix Hendrix. It might have augmented his creativity, sure.

But eventually what happens with any artist that crossed that line of addiction is it actually ends up killing the creative flow. It kills the creative energy because it cuts them off from their spirit. When you get addicted to drugs, you lose touch with spirit and spirit is where all creative ideas come from,

whether you're Nikola Tesla to Einstein to Stephen Hawking. What's the name of Hawking? Yeah, I mean, I think inspiration comes from, the ethers from the universe, so to speak, and drugs give you an access point to a certain point, but then it turns on you. So I think of really common misconception with music.

Oh man, you know, when I got so, I was like, dude, how am I going to write songs? It's like, oh my God, I was so much more successful and creative when I was sober. And a lot of musicians say that. Keith Richards even. I mean, he still drinks to his little red cup of vodka and mountain dew or whatever. But, you know, he claims he doesn't do coke anymore. He definitely quit heroin like in the late 70s. So he's made plenty of good music,

not having the assistance of that. Not say there's anything wrong with that either. It's cool, man. No, I just thought you'd be a great guy to ask that question. He's like, you've obviously been around a lot of these people firsthand. There is that perspective that these guys and girls have these incredible albums when they're spun out on drugs

and so a lot of people connect that to oh maybe it's you know because of the drugs that they've probably in spite of. I think it's you know that they have talent and then maybe the drugs at different point give them access to it but I always think man can you imagine what Kurt Cobain could be doing now could you imagine Jerry Garcia now I I mean, you go on and on and on, all the really talented, beautifully gifted people that have died at the hands of addiction because they couldn't get help, wouldn't get help. Imagine what they could have,

imagine if Hendrix was alive now. He's like, Clapton, another great example. Clapton, so we're 30 fucking years or something. That guy's had a pretty good career. No problem, right? It's still slain. Right. So it's like, man, you just wonder.

But there obviously has been, here's the thing. On the other side of that, the pro drug thing is look at beetles, early 60s pre-LSD, and then look at Sergeant Pepper's. Whoa! So would they have made Sergeant Pepper's if they never dozed? Probably not. So there is that side of it, but then again, you know,

how sustainable is that? Tools were just that. They're tools and they can be used for many different things and some of them are extremely destructive and some of them might be productive. Knowing the difference between the two, I think it's important. Yeah, and it also did like I said earlier, you some of us are just born with that addictive gene, that propensity toward being controlled by substances. And some of us can dabble. I mean, I've sort of jealous of people that are like, you know, once you're a good a burning man, it just cut, I'm not that I would want to go to Burning Man personally,

but let's just say someone's like a weekend warrior and they still can hold it down and be a good dad and like have their shit together be a CEO and then they go party and then come back to reality. I'm like, how do you do that? Because I'm just, it's in my DNA. Well, what you said about addiction and then just regular use, I think was,

it's very, very smart because millions of Americans, every day drink alcohol, but we don't have millions and millions of alcoholics. Yeah, so there's definitely a big difference between the two. It's a use and abuse and so on. It's weird, dude. I think there's two contributing factors.

One is trauma in life. Big time. And the other though, because I've met a lot of sober people that were horribly addicted, that like had beaver, cleaver, really healthy, great upbringing, plenty of love, and they're still just junkies like me. So trauma, but the other thing is, dude,

there's just honestly something in our wiring in our DNA. Like some people have the addictive gene and some don't. I have two brothers, Cody, his big fitness dude. I think I told you guys about him. Shout out to Story Fitness in LA. He's like me. Can't touch anything or just he ends up in jail in 24 hours. Or last, you know. And then my other brother Andy, you, dude, I could be like, Andy, I'll give you a thousand bucks right now to take a bong and he's like oh like how why I don't like that feeling Or he'll drink like half a beer and let it sit in there. I'm like bro. You still have half a beer I'm watching his beer more than him and I you know what I'm saying I used to be his roommate and we'd we'd have like a six pack of

Corona in the fridge and obviously I'm not drinking it But we had it there for guests whatever and then one day he cracked one open He's like oh god this reeks. I'm like what happened, but we had it there for guests, whatever. And then one day he cracked one open, he's like, oh God, this reeks. I'm like, what happened? He goes, oh, it went bad. I didn't even know beer could go bad. Mine only lasted for like a couple hours, you know? And then I'd ask him, like, you know, football game would be on or something. I'm like, hey, you're going to have a couple beers, Andy. He's like, nah, I go, oh, do you have to work?

Some are like, no, I go, why don't you like get wasted? He's like, why? I don't, it doesn't do anything for me. It just makes me foggy the next day. And I don't, in other words, it's not like the nectar of the gods to him. Whereas for me, when I was drinking, it's like the clouds part.

And I was like, oh my god, I'm in ecstasy, I'm in heaven. All my problems are gone. It just, it did something magical for me that it doesn't do for a regular person. Excellent. Man, you're a very fascinating guy. it doesn't do for a regular person. Excellent. Man, you're a very fascinating guy. Very, very fascinating. Really enjoyed talking to you.

Yeah, yeah, it was a good time for sure, man. Definitely. Yeah, I really appreciate you guys having me on. When I reached out, I was like, oh, I want to be in San Jose. I really appreciate you taking the time. I love sharing some of the stuff that I've discovered. Well, we enjoyed the time with you.

When we went down to LA, we meet people and if they strike a chord with us or whatever, you were one of those people. Like Adam said, you're very authentic and we appreciate that. So, you're doing good things, man. Thanks, dude. Appreciate you coming on.

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