Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 812: Dr. Drew & "Psycho Mike" Catherwood of Swole Patrol

Episode Date: July 12, 2018

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin sit down and talk with Dr. Drew Pinsky and Mike Catherwood of the Swole Patrol podcast and formerly hosts of the popular radio show "Loveline." They cover training, diet, addiction, the mind and a variety of other topics. Check out the Swole Patrol podcast on Apple Podcasts and other podcast platforms and find their personal Instagram pages at:@drdrewpinsky and @mikecatherwood By audience request, why did they decide to start Swole Patrol Podcast? (4:18) The “religion-osity” around nutrition and diets. Drew shares his experience with the ketogenic diet. (6:30) What are their thoughts on the carnivore diet? Vegan community? (20:09) Breaking the chain and your relationship with food, the fasting trend. (25:50) The benefits of resistance training for longevity. (31:35) Our nation's “addiction” to technology and their devices. (34:58) The scary truth of Adderall and the rise of childhood ADHD. (38:10) Mike opens up about his bodybuilding days and what initially got him into the sport of competing. (48:29) From the wannabe rock star to radio broadcaster. How did Mike get into what he is doing now? (59:18) Was there any milestone or point when he realized he had made it? How did Swole Patrol come about? Why he decided to resign from Loveline? (1:05:15) Does he find podcasting therapeutic? (1:09:28) Has there been any friction between Mike and Drew because of Drew’s profession? (1:13:13) Does he currently take any supplements? How there is no good or bad drug, it’s how you consume it. (1:17:20) What does his current training look like? (1:20:38) What consumes his time now? Does he see differences between the different broadcast mediums? (1:22:11) Has Hollywood changed with the domination of platforms like Netflix and Hulu? (1:26:40) Any guests he has rubbed the wrong way? (1:28:57) People Mentioned: Swole Patrol Podcast Michael Catherwood (@mikecatherwood) Instagram Dr. Drew Pinsky (@drdrewpinsky)  Instagram Cate Shanahan, MD (@drcateshanahan)  Twitter Mark Bell (@marksmellybell)  Instagram Shawn Baker (@shawnbaker1967)  Instagram Dominic D'Agostino (@DominicDAgosti2)  Twitter Valter Longo Related Links/Products Mentioned: Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food - Book by Catherine Shanahan Ketogenic diet in endocrine disorders: Current perspectives Dietary factors associated with lifetime asthma or hay fever diagnosis in Australian middle-aged and older adults: a cross-sectional study Study proves 'muscle memory' exists at a DNA level Take Your Pills | Netflix Official Site Texas School Beats ADHD by Tripling Recess Time Control Forever – YouTube  Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Get our newest program, MAPS Split, an expertly programmed and phased muscle building and sculpting program designed to get your body stage ready. This is an advanced program and is not recommended for beginners. Get it at www.mapssplit.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com   Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates.   Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. I like going to L.A. Yeah. Do you really? It's like our second home now. You know, I like the people.

I like the people we meet there. I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of L.A. A lot of pretty humans walking around. You know who two of the prettiest are? Hmm. Dr. Drew and Mike. Wow. From the Swole Patrol. Wow. Good looking people.

You know what surprised me? Pretty. That's right. We're on TV. We're supposed to interview Dr. Drew and Mike Catherwood from the Swole Patrol podcast. I walk in. Dr. Drew's sitting down. He's got a t-shirt on.

He's fucking yac. Jacked as fuck. Why, why didn't I not know? Why doesn't he tell anybody that? He's hiding them guns. I feel like he needs a better marketing department because that shit, like people need to know Dr. Drew, you got guns too.

Yeah, no, and he's not young either, man. No, arm wrestling. He said he's 60. He doesn't, he doesn't look a day older than 59, but he said he's 60. Did he say 60? Yeah, he did. Oh wow, really. than 59, but he said he's 60. Did he say 60? Yeah, he did oh wow really Yeah, yeah, he looks great, man, and Mike is a super super cool guy funny guy and a very cool guy actually had a great time with them too

Yeah, we had a good interview with those two guys Dr. Drew left like halfway through the interview I think had to go you had to go be on another radio show. He's on Which is partially our fault we should disclose that it is we showed up with it flight was late late We had a lot of flight shit this week. Yeah, right? Yeah, we had we had a plane had a fucking bird on the way Yeah, to come get us to leave that's why we were late stupid bird and then this morning We were just in Doug and I was supposed to fly back early Sal was staying and and hopped on max lugevere's podcast and fly back early, Sal was staying and hopping on Max Lugavir's podcast.

And we had our flight canceled. The irony of it is we all ended up back together again. Yeah. It's like universe wouldn't let us separate. I think now is a good time to tell you guys what I did. I called the airline avatar. Yeah, I'm like, Bob, I'm sort of a bitch. I get nervous flying by myself. So I want you guys there with me.

So thanks for, like your support and thanks for understanding. Anyway, Mike and Dr. Drew, this is a great combination. I like. We bounce around on a few topics, man. We got into, we talked about the documentary that we had just watched recently. I was looking forward to talking to Drew because I wanted.

Take your pills. Yeah, take your pills. I wanted to talk to him about that. Talked about Carnivore diet and different types of diets. Then we got into Mike's career, how we started in the, basically the entertainment industry, and what that's all about.

The difference between all the entertainment platform. Yeah, because the guy's interesting. Yeah, he's got a lot of experience in radio, in TV, and now podcasting, so really cool person to talk to. I enjoyed that conversation. Yeah, I hope this is not the last time. It was the first time, but I hope it's not the last time that we meet with them and do a show. You know, I want to continue with them. Now, I felt it was like an equal man crush. Yeah, you think they liked us too? Yeah, yeah.

I felt like when we were leaving him, he did make a lot of eye contact. Yeah, Mike gave me kind of this long lingering look. Yeah, he is a handsome guy. He likes me. He is very attractive. I felt that right away. I agree with that. He almost gave me a ride after. And then he chose the first. Whoa, look at a ride just like in his car. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. You have to be clear. Yeah, he got to be very excited. Yeah.

Anyway, so we're talking to them too, they're from the Swole Patrol. Dr. Drew and Mike Catherwood also, I want to remind everybody something exciting is happening in this month. MAP's in a ball, the foundational program. This is the program that started at all It's the one that we typically recommend people begin with. It's the best program we have for building muscle and strength for Most people and for building the metabolism. It's actually the program I go to when people come to me who need to speed up their metabolism, especially women. It's 50% off. It's under $60. You can find that program at MindPumpMedia.com.

You can also find our bundles where we take multiple maps programs and put them together and discount them, for example, our Super Bundle, which is a year of exercise programming. All those bundles, plus the 50% off maps in a ballac. Is at mindpumpmedia.com and without any further ado, here's mind pump interviewing the podcasters, Dr. Drew and Mike catharwood from swole patrol. Swole patrol. Mike, when did you guys start to swole patrol? What is it drew about six months ago? Yeah, roughly. Remember, yeah, about then four or six months ago. We had been

getting since the love line days, because Drew and I would geek out and pretty much every single moment off the air, all we do is talk about diet, nutrition, and training. That it just naturally started to bleed onto the air and people will call up and start asking, health and nutrition questions. Then when people started to bleed onto the air and people will call up and start asking health and nutrition questions. Then when people started to realize that Drew was into lifting, then they start asking training questions and then it just kind of built from there. And we got so many people that were always like, you guys got to do a health and fitness part. You got to do a training podcast. And I don't need to tell you gentlemen, it's a saturated market and to separate yourself from doing it, so it does it with a theme song now.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a saturated market, but I figured having a real physician, an actual MD, that is into lifting, that could be the hook, and so that's when we just kinda went with it. It's saturated, but it's saturated with a lot of bad information. Yeah, yeah, pseudo information.

It's probably one of the worst markets I can think of when a lot of bad information. Yeah. Yeah. Sudo information. It's probably one of the worst markets I can think of when it comes to bad information. Well, or best as a businessman. Oh, right, right. I mean, if you're going to jump in. Yeah, yeah. If you're thinking about coming in and disrupting it. Yeah, I would say the only thing worse than sort of fitness overall is the subcategory of

nutrition. Oh, terrible. That's where it gets really bad. Yeah, you must be extremely frustrated with your background looking into it because it's sort of I'm a scientist by training, right? And this is all unscientific or at least bad science. It's best. And so I have a couple people I go to, like I go to Kate Chanahan because she's a Bob Kemmage.

You guys know Kate? No, no. She wrote deep nutrition. I think that was her big. That's just it, though. See, like some of the best names nobody knows who they are. Yeah, because because guess what? It's not sexy. It's not headline catching. It's just because science is slow and it's all you can say for sure little tiny things. And she's all about

how messed up vegetable fats are and how we got to get back to animal fats. That's her big that's her big thing. But she's also a big advocate for no grain, no no starage carnival type stuff. So let's talk about that for a second because that's still not accepted in I guess modern Western medicine. But it's yes, yes and no. I mean, the weirdest thing at all about nutrition is there's religiosity around it.

Like people have religious concentration. Way more so than training. Like you know, you can get a CrossFit guy to buy into a train for powerlifting or you can get your body weight, you have calisthenics. Well, you want to lift weights on fine with that, but that's my thing. Yeah. Keto guys will fight a vegan. Yeah, it goes. It goes. Vegan's what religion, politics, nutrition, and then resistance training. And then the sort of mental health type topics in the get in there too.

But I've been very weirded out by that fact. It distresses me when people can't just speak in terms of what we do and don't know, a question needs to be answered. So, sorry to interrupt, but don't you see as someone who does know, a lot of guys and gals who are putting forth this information, they don't know enough to know that they don't know.

Correct. But that's sort of his everybody in a weird way. Like for instance, so I went on this carnivore diet at his behest, at his challenge. So what happened to me was, I was complaining about my shoulder, my back, and I used to live heavy weights when I was a kid Me I looked up to praise 35 or something. He goes you gotta go back We talked to Mark Bell and he goes you got to lift heavy weights. We went downstairs He we went through some motions. I'm gonna start doing heavy movements again. I'm gonna start lifting heavy weights and

My back up better and if things got better the way they said I got fat and I go I go Mike I know how this goes. I lift heavy weights, I'm just a bigger puffier version. And that's because I told him, the metabolic changes are going on. It's making you fucking starving. Right, I really go crazy with my appetite. We're lift heavy. I'm I go nuts.

And he drew this naturally big guy. And so he gets starving and then he starts stuffing himself with BS. And I go, well, the problem is, it's the weight. The weight. Well, no, I go, he's like, I go, all right, if all right, I'll try this. He wanted me on the antibiotic diet.

And within three days of cutting out all carbs and grains and things, I was like, oh, shit, this is really something. I feel so much better. And it's just falling off me. I'm not hungry. And I'm lifting, I'm getting stronger, and I'm sleeping better. So I went full into that. I didn't go to the car part at all and just just

just went full in and I've had issues. There's more to the story, but it was all positive for about six weeks. I mean like crazy positive. I wouldn't have believed it if somebody had tried to convince me that somebody was experiencing what I experienced. Now after six weeks it went bad. I think, so I talked to Kate Chanahan last week, she was on my podcast and I was trying to describe to her what happened. She goes, oh, you're not a ketosis anymore, you're eating too much. A lot of the ketone for fuel, particularly your brain fuel, it's got to come from my fat. And I was eating so much, yummy things, beef and eggs and things,

that I just was starting to put weight back on. I think that's the number one mistake. I think we know that the ketogenic diet is consuming too much protein. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. But I wasn't at first. At first I was clearly doing something right. And I also was chipping on peanut butter

and other things, and sort of I just was having weird cravings and Chipping on peanuts. So I had a similar experience and the thing that I struggled with was trying to get enough Fat in like I was getting up pushing that too. Yeah, and when I shared this on the show The thing and this is part of why we talk a lot of trash about all all diets because Everyone is so unique and different and there is no one diet that fits everybody. But let's restate that because your opening question was it's not really accepted by the medical community or anybody, but that fact isn't even sort of factored into the conversation. So this happens to suit my biology exceedingly well. I can tell it's some suited for the hills

of the Ukraine where my family is. Something a deer deer braw probably or something who knows, but but clearly it's suitable to me. I don't know that it's suitable to somebody from the Yucatan. Well, well, well, then you also get like what ended up happening to me was here I, here I was and at that time I was weighing about 225, 230 or so and I'm a six foot three guy. I'm a big guy. The easy. And I was eating too much protein.

So I was like, okay, I gotta, since I'm trying to stay ketogenic, I'm gonna try and increase my fats. Well, I was up to eating like 400 grams of fat. How are you getting it? So that was the problem. It's hard. My only source is butter, bacon, bacon. Butter and bacon, that's all it's,

make a day me nuts. Macadamia nuts, drinking, drinking, and avocado, those are the three. And avocado kind of, but the three. So macadamia nuts, some's not right about them. I can tell. I can tell it's not giving me available fat. Bacon fine.

Yeah, that's fine. But to that, could you do safe one about heavy cream? But just guzzled it. Heavy cream's got a much cheaper. But even the dozen. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. You're drinking that much of it.

Regular heavy cream. But even so, the exotic flavor. At one point, I started to ask myself like when when a good 30 to 40 percent of my diet was comprised of those four foods this can't because I could it be right I believe in food rotation. I think so right then I got my cholesterol check I thought I got to see what's going on I've still got bruises from my staff during my blood and My cholesterol had never been better. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you it was ridiculous

Mm-hmm. I've been trying to get my HD up for 20 years. It went up like 25 had never been better. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you, it was ridiculous. No, that's interesting. I've been trying to get my HDL up for 20 years. It went up like 25%. Well, here's another FACTOR. And my LDL was pegged, and they were both the same, actually. Am I triglycerized, went down on all that bacon? I never would have believed that. Here's the factor you also got to mention,

is that I'll tell Drew something. Way down, by the way, there was 75 years ago. Use it until two times. That's crazy. Give it like a five-year buffer, and that I'll give Drew advice, and say he should Drew something. Way down by there was 75 years ago. That's crazy. Give it like a five year buffer and that I'll give Drew it by, and say he should do something. And then five years will go by

and then he'll hear it from someone else. That's part of it. That's part of being a scientist. That's what happened. It till there's a nearer. It's all so. By the way, I wouldn't even be that offended if he waited for an actual scientist

because I certainly have no credentials. It's easy. Like for instance, I've been telling him, dude, you got to start deadlifting, you got to start really looking heavy. You know, take care of all your posture problems and your achy back. No, no, no, no. Mark Bell, he's not a fucking scientist. And he came down for one day, he met Dufrenauer. And next thing I know, Dufren is like, oh, yeah, I got myself some talk, I'm ready to fucking go. Hold on. The diet thing was all you this time, because you converted me like I did it for you, specifically

even though I've been hearing about it forever. In fairness though, it wasn't until Dr. Baker came through and it's really, I ruminate on this stuff. It stays with me, trust me. I ruminate. No, I do. I think I think I co-getate on it and then I develop a sense of it. Again, science is all about skepticism, right?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Until the evidence is stuff that you gotta go, I mean, maybe that's good. Well, I was gonna say, I think part of the problem with nutrition is a couple of things. There's some general truths that we find that seem to be true, but there's such a dramatic individual variance and I think it has a lot to do

with a lot of different things, including the body's immune system. Because now we're starting to learn that. I swear to God, how many times was I sick when we were on the radio together? Oh, all the time. I would not have been sick once. Yes, I can tell to different. And you're familiar with like leaky gut syndrome and what they talk about.

Yeah, if that exists and we don't know what to do with any of that stuff yet. We don't know what to do with the bacterial flora. We know it's important. We know it's something. We don't know what to do with any of that stuff yet. We don't know what to do with the bacterial flora. We know it's important. We know it's something. We don't know what. But sometimes anecdotal evidence can be of value, especially with the individuality aspect of it. And I go back to my bodybuilding days and I remember getting ready for a bodybuilding competition

and I was training with this one guy who was almost exactly my measurements. He was, he was naturally a little leaner than me, but he was about 5'10, about 180 naturally. And he and I were prepping for the same one. He was eating 300, 400 grams of carbs going into the show, weeks the show and Shredded to the bone if I went over 40 I Was bloated I would be fat. I just the variability is not it's not a little bit the variety You know the variety to what works for each human metabolism is dramatic, you know between and that's why not to mention I believe that is always changing too. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine what it would be like for me now at age 39.

That was 20, I feel on this crazy diet, kind of the way I did in my 20s, in terms of my relationship with weightlifting and diet and stuff. But then, I was able to, how about the boner? Is it better? Or maybe a little bit? Why is it the boner?

I don't like it. But it was a stupid boner. Well, Drew's dick is like, God, you have to refer to it as a title. The dick, and you have that bone. You have to be in the third person, like a professional athlete. So what did you get the fats?

That's what I wanna know. So in it being that I was chasing the butter. What did you do? So when I ended up doing, I stayed with that for maybe three months and then eventually got to the point where I said, this just can't be ideal for my body, for me to be consuming this much.

Plus, you started getting palate fatigue from some of that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I'm right there. What do you do? So, well, I'm now I'm back. Now, so let me explain to you what I did before that. So, I was competing right before that and I was eating 600 grams of carbs. So, I went from being a 600 gram carburet.

And what prompted all of this was on our show one day, and something that we all talk about is, we're very open to trying different things and exploring that. And I remember these guys, Sal had actually already done the ketogenic diet, and he'd be like, you know, I just want you to try and see how you feel.

And I'm like, why? I ate 600 grams of carbs, and he wear the fuck I want. And he looked good. Yeah, I'm 4% of why would I even think about doing that? And I caught myself saying that on the show, and I thought, well, where the fuck I want them for? And you look good. Yeah, I'm 4% why would I even think about doing that? And I caught myself saying that on the show and I thought, well, that's okay. Shame on me. Why not then?

Why not put myself through that and see what I noticed, right? So I did. And a couple of things that I really liked. I liked how satiated I felt. Yes, I did. I got rid of cravings. Completely. I used to be someone who craved ice cream and shit like those those things were

100% right it completely eliminated that and to stay true and stay lean and stay to a diet became really really easy Yeah, the only knock that I had was I found myself always eating these kind of same foods So now I now I live in kind of a more Balance like I would say and I haven't measured and weighed since I competed But I'm probably more about 200 grams to 250 grams of carbohydrates now and my fats are probably right around the same So I can now keep kind of this even built like that So my my fats. I'm not as picky as I was before right so they I just animal

Yeah, so mostly mostly animal fats I'm just not as like because I kind of, I feel like I'm headed that direction. Because he said, let me tell you what I noticed. The big thing was that we kind of ate this way for almost a year. And when I started to reintroduce the carbohydrates, I actually saw this huge like spike in, I felt my hormone levels, like my libido kicked up. I felt my strength in the gym kick up and the energy kick up.

So as long as I, I had the same experience going to ketosis though. So, yeah. But then it started to kind of plateau. That's right, exactly. It just, they weren't weird. So your brain theoretically likes ketones better than glucose. It's more efficiently brought into the mitochondria.

So that's kind of what the high comes from. Your brain's going, this is better. I felt this to the mental clarity right away. It's clarity and didn't need so much sleep and a little bit high, I think, just level. And then that kind of, yeah, then just kind of leveled out.

And I think that's because most of those key times comes from our fat. And once you lose, you stop metabolizing so much your own fat, that thing isn't high. Well, I also think that our bodies are just adaptation machines. Yeah.

And so I think whatever we throw at it at first, it's that first initial like boom, you feel all that, and then after a while, I just kind of leveled out, and it wasn't that I was feeling bad, it was just like, then I went through this, okay, well let's try and introduce some more carbohydrates, let's not try and just follow a diet, let's try and feed my body some more carbs

and see how it responds. And so far, since I've reintroduced the carbohydrates up to about 2 to 50, I feel amazing right now. Well, long-term ketogenic diets are coordinated with low testosterone after a long period of time. And from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense that sometimes we should probably eat some carbs and sometimes we should go without them.

Especially seasonally when you look at the seasons. That's right. And that's the same thing. When I went keto, I had tremendous benefits. The nice thing on keto for a very long time. My reasons were a little different than atoms. I have gut issues. And avoiding carbohydrates't keto for a very long time. My reasons were a little different than atoms, I have gut issues. And avoiding carbohydrates seemed to remedy a lot of that.

But then after being on it for like a year and a half, I stopped getting the benefits, started introducing more carbohydrates, and now I'm getting, like I did, well, the first time I went keto. So I think the body just changed it back and forth a bit. It's more like over time. That's what I think, I think that's what's ideal. I think that's right. And that's exactly how I used to teach clients

was they give me, oh, what diet? Well, which one would you like to try? Anything any use on those poutered ketones? The beta hydroxybutyrate? Yeah, any other stuff. You know what's interesting about, they will raise your ketone level. I know you kickstarted me a little bit

and back into ketosis, I think. I think, or at least help me regain that feeling and so I was more motivated. So I certainly like them. I mean, I wouldn't have gone that route, but I got a bunch of free stuff. And I certainly liked them from the sense that I got, I definitely felt like a mental clarity. Yeah, you get a something like that. Well, we got, we had Dr. Dom Diagosteo on the show and he's like the, one of the experts

on the subject. And one of the things he said to me was, we don't know in the context of not being a natural ketosis and then adding a supplement with ketones, what that's necessarily gonna do, because never in nature, you're gonna have elevated levels of ketones and also have lots of glycogen in your body. But that's what a lot of people are doing

and so we don't know exactly what that, you know, what that's gonna do. Now I heard you guys mentioned Sean's name. Now what do you think of that extreme? Because now you got the guy who eats, where you talking about Sean Baker? Yeah, just a carnival. And you saw his blood work, right?

Did you guys say he discussed about it? He discussed it. Yeah, lipids were all off and his testosterone was just in the basement. But he says he feels really good. And he's theorizing that was. What was his testosterone? Oh, it was really low. It was below basement, but he says he feels really good and he's theorizing that was testosterone. Oh, it was really low.

It was below normal. I forgot what the number was for 58 year old man. It was like 100 something. It was yeah, it was pretty low. Was it that low? Yeah, I don't know. I couldn't remember. But he's two hundred something would be certain.

I don't know, it's old man, but you know. Oh no, Drew's is 10,000. He looks like it's 10,000, you know? Are you guys familiar with the studies that they've done with the Continua Glucose Monitors? Fascinating stuff. They'll find that some people will get a spike in insulin from like an avocado or something more than,

so that suggests that there's an immune response possibly going on, right? Because how can you get a spike in something that's just fat? Fasted unless genetically you were made that. Yeah, that's how your body responds. I bet I'm one of those people. I've naturally been avoiding avocado

because it doesn't feel the same as the other stuff for some reason, so it's okay, but I don't know. Yeah, I like that. So what do you guys think about what Sean's doing? Because I think that's crazy to live off a straight, rib-eye steaks year-round like that. I think it's crazy, live off a straight, rib-eye stakes year-round like that. I think it's crazy, but then I analyze it from, you know, you're getting back to your point

about how adaptive the human body is. You know, I know, I talk to Steve Maxwell about it, and he's a guy who's had the luxury of traveling the world, and traveling the world with the intention of fitness and nutrition. And he said, one thing you notice is that people can be healthy eating fucking bread. You know, it's amazing how the human body develops stuff like that, you know, to deal with starvation.

And there's, you know, African tribes that eat nothing but roots, right? Literally nothing but no meat and there's shredded and then there's people in parts of Eastern Europe that are eating almost like Dr. Baker and they are fine. It can't be optimal though. I don't know. That's, fine. It can't be optimal though. I don't need that. That's, it might be for him. He may have such a reactive immune system because he said he eats any vegetables

and he bloats and feels terrible. And I wonder if it's not, the diet isn't necessarily what's doing it, but it's the avoidance of all these foods that he has a reaction to. So he's just eating something that he has low reaction to a lot of, which also seems to, you know, also.

I'm just closer to him somehow Do we know what is ethnic heritage is or anything? He's very white But I would guess Dr. Baker is That's my thing and I know something in that I don't know I don't know if it's immune. I know what something in that. I don't know. I don't know if it's immune, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I don't know. I think that has to try it actually. That's one of those.

Because I've actually heard too. It has some benefits to sleep apnea. And that's something that my family is so much better. I was going to ask you about your sleep. Way better. Way better. And vegetables, I seem to slide back when I eat them. Because I just think it's important.

But I start to slide. I start to tell I just think it's important, but I start to slide. I start to tell I'm not. You know, in flammatory response. No, it's not like I'm uncomfortable. It's just like I'm not as elevated as I am when I'm just doing it myself. You gotta ultimately listen to your body. We've been in fitness now for over 20 years.

And so when we get into discussions like this, it's always like I can think of all the, I've trained thousands of clients. And I've had clients that thrived off of a vegan diet, completely vegan, like literally thrived. I could see the benefits, I could see their health. And there's, and the religious side, there's another issue too, is it,

what are you doing to the planet with all this meat? And that's the other religious piece that gets factored in all the people. That's the, that's where I see the most religious fervor is in the vegan community. And it's not the same as it is with other diets in the sense that I eat paleo, so I identify with that. It's because they look at it also from a moral stamp.

And a lot of them will disregard their health just because they don't want to eat animal. And there's something incredibly admirable about that. If you look at the vegan diet purely from a moral perspective, I understand that I get behind. about that. I mean, if you look at the vegan diet purely from a moral perspective, I can respect that I get behind. I get upset when that moral take bleeds over to you trying to tell me that it's actually beneficial for my health. And I go, well, you don't know that.

But here's one of them. You put a wrinkle in the moral argument, which is that if cows didn't have the present symbiotic, let's say they overnight lose the symbiotic relationship they have with the human. Go extinct immediately. In the media. If you ever want to, the species will be gone. You ever want to prevent an animal from going extinct?

Let humans buy them and own them. Well, there's also the old, there's also the old, or benefit from them in some fashion. Absolutely. There's also the other hitch too that didn't we find out recently that they're plants or just like The agriculture kills so many animals to begin with

I actually think that's gonna be one of the biggest things that we're gonna see boom and fitness Why not? Right, it's available, it's people. It doesn't taste good. Fantastic, yeah. Who cares? It doesn't taste that bad actually. Well, actually they're gonna refine it down, I'm sure. You know, we've had it, we've had it, it's not that bad.

We've had protein bars that are made with it, and it's actually not that bad. The way in protein from the, or the dairy proteins from the 80s are vastly different than what we have now. So hopefully the cricket protein in 10 years will be like muscle mill. I don't even know what the fuck that was that we were eating all those. Because I think all the studies that it came out now that they're finally testing all that

shit going like that 80% that was on the market. It wasn't even what it said was it. It's talking about making soda. It's going to be a shock for the last 20 years. Would you complain to you when you eat cricket cricket protein you find a bug in your I know It's supposed to be there. What do you what about what do you guys think about? I think that some of the most exciting science coming out now has to do with fast things I remember when I first started in fitness. I know I don't know what to do with that with this fat diet

Oh, I'll tell you what well now she is when I was eating a Raylodid fast and we're great Well, it won't work as well Yeah, and I think Walter Longo talks about fast and we're great. Well, it won't work as well. Yeah. And I think Walter Longo talks about this and who else was talking about that? It's like you're already when you're running like a high fat or even like a little jack diet. Yeah, you're simulating. It's kind of simulating kind of a part of your metabolism is fasting.

It is. Well, even Dr. Baker talked about it with us. Yeah. I think fasting can be trendess if you're eating a lot of glucose or any glucose containing stuff. I think fashion can be trendess if you're eating a lot of glucose or any glucose containing stuff But you know if you're in a if you're in a high fat diet or even in a carb-diprived situation Not a sickly nutritional ketosis, but just in a carb-diprived situation. It doesn't seem to be as beneficial But I mean, I know I I prefer it just because You know back in the time when I was eating eight times a day

Six times a day whatever, I was constantly hungry, even though I was eating more frequently. And I was tired. I mean, there's something about consistently giving myself that feeding. Well, I love the fat regardless of what diet, what do we talk a lot about with fasting? It's just breaking that, these poor relationships with food. I love the fat regardless of what diet, what we talk a lot about with fasting is just breaking that these poor relationships with food. Especially when it's these small meals every day. That's the rule of the reason.

I come from that too. I was eating eight meals a day myself and it was all about the timing and I was constantly consuming it and then when you kind of break free of those changes, I mean, I was the insecure skinny kid who could never get bigger. So I always like, I wake up in the morning

and my scale would be down three pounds. Oh shit, three pounds of muscle fell off of me and then I'd be scarfing food all the time. And that's just the opposite extreme with the people that starved their bodies and over binge and do that. So I like what the fasting does for with just breaking free of that.

Oh wow, look, you don't eat for 24, 48 hours, you're actually fine. There's a reason why fasting is present every major religion in the world and every major culture. It's been present for thousands of years. And I think that's probably part of the reason from breaking those chains.

I mean, let's be honest, if you are born and raised in a modern Western society, you've probably never felt true hunger. Yeah, do we think about that? And hunger is our natural state. Yes, yes, we've never felt it. What we attribute hunger is cravings or context like I'm at a birthday party I'm at the movies. I want popcorn or I'm stressed out

So when you fast because I do I do a 48 hour to 72 hour fast once a month Which by the way is one of the best things I've ever done for my health and for my relationship to food when you're not eating for three days And you're stressed out or anxious or bored and you can't reach for food You got to figure out okay. Well, how do I deal with this without my drug, which happened to be food? And then of course, like Adam, it's realizing like, oh, if I don't eat for a couple days, I'm not gonna lose all this muscle,

I'm not gonna freak, it's not gonna kill my body. And then there's a strange effect that happens when I start to refeed. I almost get this, how did you feel after a show when you'd start feeding yourself a lot of food? Fantastic. And your muscle, you just blow up. And up and I get that same effect post fast. Yeah, but that's a that's a you start this glycogen Deposition of the muscle I I fluid goes with that. I know that but I also get this like muscle boost effect

It's good. I'm very familiar. I get strength But I also I also see this kind of almost step ladder effect Well, they just came out that study recently with the seven weeks on, seven weeks off, what's happening? Oh, that's a fascinating thing. That's fascinating. Yeah, they took, they took two groups of men and they had one group train hard for seven weeks,

take seven weeks off and then work out again. They were testing the theory of muscle memory. You guys have heard of muscle memory before, right? You lose muscle, gain it back twice as fast the second time around. They not only gained back what they'd lost over that seven weeks, but they had also gained an additional 5%. Wow.

And so they're theorizing if there's more to muscle memory than we realize. There's, like I said, when I fast, and this is anecdote, about three or four days post-fast, I get this incredible muscle building effect and strength effect, more so than if I didn't fast, than if I just went straight through in the first place. Do you train during my next obsession?

Yeah. If I do train during a fast, it's very light, mobility work, full range. I'm not trying to push my body. I'm not trying to go super heavy. But about two, three days post fast, I feed myself very slowly. I get this like, you can ask these guys. I'm a good 10, 10, 12 pounds heavier than I was before. And it's a hundred percent

What do you guys think of some of these genetic tests are available for these various questions about what kind of muscle loading You should be doing like 23 me or like well. No, there's a 15 a 15 a 5 jeans as a bunch of I don't know if we know enough. They're very specific And there's a whole family of jeans. They're looking at and I did I did the profile and man They nailed me did that yeah, I was the profile and man, they nailed me. Did that. Yeah. It was an exciting thing.

What did they say with yours? They were, they were talking about my relationship with glucose and how it would work. And they also were saying that, you know, I was, I was trying to figure out heavy weight. How I, I essentially said every time I've had a trainer, they're always trying to take me towards high, high reputation, high volume. And it's just I don't get anything out of it. And without me saying that he just, I don't get anything out of it. And without me saying that, he goes, you won't get anything out of that. You're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're

going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going

to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you're going to have to train, it's just a dream. Yeah, me too. I don't have to kill it every day, but I just gotta keep going. Yeah, I know, just touch it. That's it. Now, the more experience you have, that's true generally as well. The more experience you have, the shorter that muscle protein synthesis signal lasts, and they find that, I just read another statement.

You don't work out as hard as long. You have to work out frequently. So like a beginner can work out, hit a body part once a week, notice gains, if you're experienced, that muscle building signal falls very quickly. So hitting it, frequently. It's funny you talk about lifting heavy and we've been talking about diets and relationship

to how we evolve. But before you just think that I don't make sure you don't forget to talk about the work you're doing now with that video stuff. Yeah, it's pretty great. So that's a good, good training thought. So what I was gonna say is, heavy resistance training,

I think in the context of modern life, like had mentioned lifting heavy you appetite went through the roof That's your metabolism. Oh, yeah, that is not a good thing when you're a hunter-gatherer I know but in modern and modern society that's a great thing and we know we've been speculating this for a while because right now when you Go to the doctor or they recommend activity. What do they recommend 30 minutes of vigor is part of that activity? Nobody says lift weights. Oh, activity, what do they recommend? 30 minutes of vigorous cardiovascular activity. Nobody says lift weights. Oh no, no, I do. But I mean, they have forever, because that, particularly older patients,

they would constantly say on that now, it's like resistance training, resistance training. They gotta do it, they don't. I think resistance training, if you look at, just if you have to pick a form of exercise to combat all the problems of modern life, right? Obesity, insulin sensitivity, immobility, loss of bone, metabolic syndrome.

Resistance training hands down is a killer. Because you get your metabolism speed up, your muscle, obviously, the more muscle you have, the more sensitive you are to insulin. Mobility, look what happens to old people when they fall down and break a hip or whatever, die from it. Resistance training is the answer.

We've been talking about this for a while. I wonder how long has it taken before all doctors, not just forward thinking one thing. It's hard to get people to do it in generations that have no relationship with that kind of movement. Right, I think it all changes. It's just like older females. And by older, I don't mean old.

I mean, my wife, who's 40, she has this aversion to the idea of lifting me, it's because she thinks she's gonna turn into an IFBB pro in a jacked, and I am. If it was only that easy. I know. I tried to explain that to her. I was like, you understand that every high school football

player would do that. If you know, there's a reason why so many young men put in years and years of work to try to gain 10 pounds of muscle. You suddenly think that you're this genetic anomaly that's going to pick up a weight and all of a sudden become this freak. But, you know, so many, CrossFit's been the only thing that really has gotten women by and large. CrossFit was a revolution in our, and just in the business of fitness, because, you know,

managing gyms for as long as I have squat rat, we'd have a 35,000-square-foot gym, I'm talking about like mainstream gyms, right? There'd be one squat rack or two squat racks and they'd have dust on them. Now everybody's squatting and deadlifting and even women are starting to do it. But in terms of resistance training,

I'll tell you, training clients, I would get women who would come see me who were consuming 1300 calories a day, doing eight hours of cardio for the whole week, so over an hour a day, anything over 1300 calories, it'd gain weight. I'd switch them to heavy resistance training, start to reverse diet them, and I'd get them up to 2000 calories a day with leaner body fat. That effect on metabolism is just, it's incredible. It's, there is still, I mean, there's this weird thing. I mean, it's just like racism or homophobia

or so, generationally, it's gonna phase out. And I mean, because now there's kids, women as well that are growing up with the idea that resistance training is as healthy, if not more so than cardio. I think it's cardio and it's gonna, it'll phase out and who knows, 40 years it's gonna be so mainstream.

It's gonna come mandatory at what I'm really curious about. What we're gonna see I think in the next 10 years that we haven't really seen the cause from this is the or the effect from the iPhones and the posture. I mean, I personally saw what it did. So I had this little just, I tore my Achilles about eight months ago and that was one of the worst injuries I ever dealt with.

That's serious. Yeah, I was. I fell off my training and during that time, worked in stop for me. So I'm constantly still doing what I was doing, but because I wasn't countering that with my resistance training, I mean, I lit it up and we have like a,

we do this, we have a zone test that we do for all people and I was going back and it's just for my upper cross and kind of see where my forward head and my shoulder girdle is at. And I could see like, I moved it inches within just a matter of eight months of not training consistently, and I went holy shit. Like, I'm aware of this.

I'm a trainer, I know how to combat this. And I noticed that big of a difference. Like, what about these 10 year olds and 13 year olds that they're glued to these things four hours plus it? And we patterns like, yeah, I think we're gonna see something in posture and body mechanic. Yes, that we just so bad. You know, I know you're you're an expert in addiction.

What do you think about the electronics addictions that were starting to see or can you classify it as a addiction can, but I mean, I always caution against overusing the addictive, you know, sort of model, but in certain things for sure. I mean, whether it's porn being the big one, I mean, obviously for that. And we call it process addiction generally when people are involved with too much electronic media.

The video game stuff, clearly it's an issue whether needs primary treatment is controversial. Most people with the video game, preoccupations have an underlying psychiatric problem. That's one of the big compulsive behaviors when you treat the psychiatric problem, it kind of goes well. Oh, interesting. It's a lot better. But sometimes some people need primary treatment.

Interesting. It couldn't be said for actual drugs and alcohol too. I mean, there are, how many times are drug addicts who will diagnose it? All the time, but with drug addiction, though, you have a truly a separate second problem. Yeah, like a physiologically separate treatment. I also feel like too, but with drug addiction though you have a truly a separate second problem. Yeah, like a physiological a separate treatment. I also feel like too with a drug addiction like it's more obvious of how bad or dangerous it is

where like with the phones like a lot it's we're promoting how amazing. It's still even though it's extra physiological in terms of how we respond to it. It's still normal physiology. Drugs are abnormal physiology. No, I've always said people always ask me they say, you know, you're so, you're so courageous and brave that you were able to handle addiction at such a young age. And I was like, no, it actually made it a lot easier.

It was very clear that I was a complete pile of shit. Because I was 21 years old, I had no job, I was living on people's couches, I had no money. If I was, if I was 50 and had money in the bank, I could very easily have rode that into the sunset for a good decade before I was confronted with the notion that my life had gone awry. How long did it take you? Like before you realized that. It took me three honest, well, I would say honest try. It took me three tries in rehab. the final one being the truly honest

Non-vane effort at trying to get clean but I when I when I was 19 I average is four treatments in five years for the average person It was three in three in three three treatments in three years after all drugs or well It's studies have done a severe alcoholics It's for treatment was it for treatment some five years, I think it is. And we're to get one year of sobriety. What I was I couldn't wait to talk to you about. I just watched the documentary. I think it's called Magic Pills.

Is that what? Oh, no, no, no, take your pills. Take your pills. What do you think about the Adderall? Adderall, Riddlein and fucking disaster. It's fucking for every 10 children. Well, this is the statistic that they said. I can't even. Yeah, I know. So I I never experienced it. And I'm not even worried about the children, I'm worried about what's happening to the adults. Well, I just took my first one, like maybe a year ago.

Never experienced before, I keep hearing it, keep hearing it, keep hearing it. First time saying, we were getting ready to do something. And I took that thing and I was like, holy shit. And then someone tells me, like, oh, that's only 10 milligrams. I think so. 10 milligrams, we took some kids. Some kids are up to's only 10 milligrams. Was it 10 milligrams?

I think so. 10 milligrams, we took some kids. Some kids are up to 20 or 30 milligrams. The generic name for the molecule is Dextro Amphetamine. It's meth. It's meth. It's a methamphetamine. You know anything else?

One of the whole of you, all right. That's what blows my mind though, is that we're prescribing. We're doing, My profession makes the same mistakes over and over against since about the 1860s. I have a lecture where I just chronic all the repetitive mistakes that we make particularly

on the brain stuff, it's unbelievable. Well, I didn't realize how long it'd been around. It's just they keep rebranding it, right? So they keep bringing it out. Because of the science of shitty, because it's all short term. When you look at brain stuff, very short term, you can find all kinds of great outcomes.

People, would you love to take that for a couple months? You feel a lot better, right? Whoa, I love that. Probably lose a little weight. Disaster long term. And so, the studies are never long enough with these come molecules. Just in particular on the sort of stimulant

and addiction side. Do you think the growth of the diagnosis of ADD and ADHD isn't so much that more kids have it, but that were just yes and no. The one of the, again, one of the little secrets about ADD is one of the manifestations of childhood trauma, adverse childhood experiences, ADD. So why aren't we dealing with the trauma in the adverse childhood experiences, which we should be. So, yeah, there was a school in Texas that

tripled recess time and all but eliminated some of the symptoms and a lot of these kids. I'm sure that yeah I'll talk about your stuff. You don't right now. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm someone who struggled with the preclinical depression and and alcoholism drug addiction for long time long period of time and the even though I've been, by the grace of God, I've been sober 17 years, I still lingering anxiety and depression was a serious problem. And I've been using SSRIs and other different antidepressants and the whole thing. And my wife, who's a full hippie, forced me, I don't want to say forced me. She really influenced me to get involved

with this brain training where they mapped out my brain and its electrical activity. And then they designed a video game that is geared towards my actual brain and I control it using my brain activity. And it's thoughts. Now my thoughts. No, it's just my brain activity.

You understand, he is is actually part of his brain that are not conscious not thought oriented not language oriented and he's doing it in ways he doesn't understand but because he has the visual feedback when he gets into those regions in the whatever he's following that's interesting i have a reaction i thought you were actually thinking go no no no no no and and go. No, no, no, no, no, no. And I can go out of my way to meditate while I'm doing it.

And in clear my mind, I can think about my fucking go. I'll tell the spaceship that I'm like, like you fucker, you go. And it has no relation to how successful I am. These are the activities that have my brain. You're assuming my much of our brain is not conscious and not connected to the other. No, I do.

98% of it is actually. No, well, not part of it. It's conscious enough to recognize the feedback. Right. And what it does is they're recording my brain activity as I'm playing this video game. And it starts to sense a reward for watching this car or this ship go.

And so it understands that the parameters of certain parts of my brain that are going too high and other parts that are going too low to stay within certain parameters to essentially reward myself with that part. So the reward, when the reward zing goes through, it feeds back to all parts of the brain, all kinds of areas. And so that reward gets that part engaged essentially, it have low V and type of results. And I'll tell you, I know it sounds wacky and woo-woo and science fiction.

It works. I am a much more laid back guy. I am definitely much more in control of, at its non-meditation. It's not meditation. It's literally accessing and either up regulating or down regulating brain reaches. Do you know what part you're particularly in trouble with?

I might go through some lateral cortex. It was a lateral prefrontal cortex, something like that. I don't know. Yeah, fine. Find out what like that. I don't know. Find out what it is. I can tell you which brain ways. What's the second say would it say we're in this area right here?

I can tell you which brain ways are overactive and which ones are under. But I have to go with the brain. I'll tell you what the brain is. I'll tell you what it is about. I already asked about that. Okay. And how long until you started seeing results from that?

I've probably done it 13 times, and over a course of like two months. Well, what is it the anxiety you notice or come down? It's just you. I constantly was worried about work, about food, about, I would invent these things to be worried and angry about. Subsequently angry because I would get worried

about something and then it would piss me off. And I'm not an angry person, but I internally had this angst and that is gone. I mean, I just, you know, I certainly still get about things. But so that's his conscious experience of it. The uncut might have been a big deal that was firing at two higher rate or a ventral tech mental area was overact or from his addiction. The thing I think that is perfectly applicable to this podcast is that I don't gorge anymore. Now don't get me wrong, I still create, I think fourth of July, it's awesome ice cream or it's okay. I still looked good, had a couple bites. The days of cheat day and me going six weeks of eating broccoli and chicken breast and

then having four pizzas and washing it down with a six pack of Mountain Dew. It's gone. And I have zero to dire desire to do so. I'm just much more present in everything that I do in my impulse regulation. It's been so the way I've dramatically changed. It's improved wiring probably.

It's probably not only is the upbringing of the down-regating every agent has probably developed some wiring in it. So the only is the upbringing and the down-regoring area region is probably developed some wiring and so the brain is now a more integrated hole. That's a healthy brain. It's an integrated hole brain where all parts are regulating. Now, Drew, you keep saying that it's not meditation.

You're making that really clear. Now, do you think that there are some similar benefits that you get from meditating or do you think you're completely different? Completely different, completely. But there are tons of benefits from you get from meditating or you think you're completely different. Completely different, completely different. But there are tons of benefits from meditation. Right, right. But people, they understand what that is.

Right. They don't tend to understand what this stuff is. Right, right. Same thing with like EMDR and things like that. We're accessing parts of the brain that people don't know that they have. And so they don't, it's counter intuitive to them. I have to go to a radio show, guys.

Oh, no problem. That's why we're here at this.. But Mike, will you get them some advice about what to do with my goddamn shoulder? I drew shoulders always been bothering forever. It started as a probably a rotator cuff. We got the moves for you. And then just became a fix. So we have a program called Prime.

Let me just say I can work out all around it. I can do it. And nothing happens as long as I don't lift something heavy over my, like this is not possible. Right. And everything else is. Probably humorous. It's a sketch on the shoulder.

That's a, that's a, that's a, I think that's right. It's a philosophy. It's really the right to your cuff started it, and then something happens. It's just a recruitment pattern. It's a recruitment pattern. And it's exactly. It's become your default.

We just got to change that default. Ask about your little new instrument. Well, that's a good idea or not. Oh, yeah, yeah. Or the hell. So,, whether that's a good idea or not. Oh yeah, yeah. Or the hell of a jay. So, gentlemen, it's been a real pleasure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry I have to run out of it, really.

But I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I've got a lot out of this, so thank you. And I'm going to get more when my report's me after. Yeah, all right. All right, thank you. My turn. Absolutely.

I don't know how intriguing I am, gentlemen, without him, but feel free. Very true. I wonder if that device, the way it worked, is just that you had your anxiety issues or whatever, and then you developed these brain patterns as a result and became this positive feedback loop. And it's like you had to interrupt it

and going on that computer device or whatever, just interrupt it. Yeah, it was there. I think Drew had a way of breaking it down that my brain became more of a comprehensive unit. And that makes a lot of sense to me, because I'm such a daydreamer, I can't focus on anything and I'm certain, I came from an era when ADHD and stuff wasn't necessarily that big of a deal and they weren't prescribing, you know, Adderolta, every other kid.

But I always, I never was a good student and I had no ability to kind of focus on the task at hand. And I feel like I'm just working on a little bit more of my brain than I was before, you know. Do you feel like that was contributing to your stand-up comedy and like it gave you that sort of mindset as far as like, you know, looking at things a little bit differently? Well, it definitely, I definitely got this sense that, if task A was important, whether B school

or football practice, task B, C, and D were the only things that I was focusing on and that was what was going on in the grandstands or what I could possibly draw and sneak in and listen to on my Walkman during class. So my point being is that I constantly, not even by my own volition, was looking at the subtext of what was going on in life. And so I think that made for at least the ability to be a radio personality and have the ability to talk extemporaneously for long periods of time

because I never was really focusing on anything else that anybody else was focusing on. I always had these weird ideas and stuff that was popping out. Yeah, that's a good question because I wonder how much of that contributes to just the creative process, you know what I mean? Of being a little scatter or really different.

Yeah, yeah, very interesting. And there was a fear that comes from trying to think differently. And once I got past that and I realized, and I found an industry where people would celebrate it, then it became great because you kind of got the sense that, well, no, maybe sometimes people want to hear a different spin on things. Mike, I want to ask you about your bodybuilding history and your fitness history early on.

Like, let's talk, you and I are the same age. So you were into the stuff right around the same time I was. What initially got you into that sport, into that world? I think like, well, first sports in general, I mean, I was an athletic kid. I wasn't the binding means someone who's going to be a high level college athlete or anything, but I was always super athletic. I always good better than the rest of the kids in all sports. So I, you know, could play varsity level and stuff, could play high level. When I was in Little League, I was always like one of the better kids, the whole thing.

So when I got to be about 13, 14 years old, the notion that I wanted to lift weights was just automatic. And in the early 90s to the mid 90s, I think there was a real, you were hitting a real high level of like the IFBB pros and stuff. It was just a really good era. Oh, you have the LeBron, you have Yates, you have Wheeler, all those guys. And you start picking up the Flex magazines and stuff. And even the muscle media, the more mainstream palatable stuff, it was just, I think a really good era for that kind of stuff. And I sucked it up and I got into it

and started lifting heavy, pretty young, 14, 15 years old and I just took to it. It was something that I took to. I never really was automatically or naturally good at much of anything but I quickly could gain muscle and I quickly could lift heavy compared to the other kids. I wasn't an endurance athlete. I never could run the mile very fast and I wasn't a sprinter,

but within a couple of months I get squat, you know, three plates and stuff like that. And I felt cool and it felt great. And it was something I was good at. I was good at and it felt healthy and rewarding. And so very quickly I kind of became hooked on it. Now, did you train and compete naturally or were you using anabolic story in this period of time? No, I didn't, I didn't ever have any

desire to compete in bodybuilding. I never had anything against it. I just never thought that that was something for me. And then when I got sober, there was this lingering feeling. Really, I have really bad body image issues. Much better now than before. But one of the things that kind of came up through therapy was the idea that I could tackle this head on. The person who is afraid of swimming or afraid of the ocean starts surfing or something. This was my way of combating it.

I went about it in the most unhealthy way. I immediately started doing 500 milligrams of test in DECA every day, you know, every week and then trend and eating stimulants and stuff like that. And achieved the desired goal, physique-wise, but then I never really got to the center of what was bothering me. But that was certainly my unhealthy motivation to get into competitive bodybuilding. I think that it really skewed the way that I looked at it in the long term because if I would have gone about it in a much more healthy fashion or at least in a much more holistic

fashion, I probably would have been something that I was stuck with and not had such a cynical kind of view on. Now what did you think of your peers? Did you think that they too had body image issues or were you not even paying attention to what your peers were doing when you were competing? No, I wasn't. And I wasn't someone who was in it for the competition,

meaning if I finished second, I was fine. I was just happy I could go eat some chili fries and donut. I wasn't like, the guy was like, I got a fucking dick on the trophy. So I also was just happy that I had a bunch of dudes that were into something that I was into. And I had training partners and people that would

encourage me and I could encourage them. That camaraderie aspect of it was much more appealing than the competition aspect. Did you feel a major burnout at all after you were done? Did you find yourself from living the six to eight meals a day, training like crazy, and then you're like, okay, I'm done with this. What was that transition like?

Yeah, I want... I started to analyze the use of anabolic and the use of stimulants as something that was compromising my sobriety. And I looked at recovery, I was thinking to myself, like, well, what am I doing here? I mean, I'm just trading one for the other. I am not drinking and are not using cocaine,

but am I truly giving my all to my recovery? And I wasn't. And so that transition, getting clean, and really having to commit to post-cycle therapy and having to just put my hands up to the loss of my gains and all that kind of stuff. It was hard. It was certainly hard to deal with. And it gave me an f- you mentality where I was like, well, fuck the whole thing. I'm just gonna give up and I'm not gonna. But gradually I got back into a more healthy view on things and it didn't help that I was doing a morning show

at the time and I was getting up at four in the morning, 3.34 in the morning and staying at work till sometimes still sundown. There was no way I was gonna sleep eight hours and there was no way that I was gonna get proper recovery. So I was burning the candle both ends. It was probably the best thing for me to be able to step back and take Take a break and get get control of my health as opposed to get control of my ass

How many years was that that you were actually competing for then how long did you do it for probably about four or five years now Did you do now still have to be on TRT or were you able to no no? I'm I'm oh wow. Yeah, so that's great But I mean, you know, we're talking about a Oh, no, I'm, I'm, oh wow. Yeah, so that's great. But I mean, you know, we're talking about, God, almost a 15 year span now. I mean, this was the early 2000s. Now, I ran, so when I competed,

and that was just not that long ago, I was in it for almost four years, and I was on TRT at 30, I'm 36, you're on 37 now, and this is the first time, where my girl and I are trying to get pregnant right now. So I'm actually trying you're on 37 now. And this is the first time, my girl and I are trying to get pregnant right now. So I'm actually trying to be off completely. And it's been, I'm coming on my ninth month,

and boy, the last eight months was rough. How long did it take you before you started to feel normal again? I wish I could say it was quick. Years, years where I really felt like there was pieces of the day that I enjoyed. I mean, it's because initially, especially after post-cycle therapy ends, it was really rough.

Like I meant, how am I gonna get out of bed today? People don't realize how depressing it is when you're just all surrounds in the basement. I know, and I wish more of that was talked about because there's such an allure to using gear. And I'm not, and I'm not by any means in my some guy that's going to be like, dude, only natural, the only way to go. I totally understand the appeal, and if you're going to do it,

go about it. But just go in knowing that the fallout is tremendous. And the psychological and emotional tie-in is huge. It's not just about losing your gains. There is a price to be paid psychologically. Yeah. One of the big problems that I see or struggles I see with it is, you know, because I've known a lot of guys and girls

who've done that. And one of the biggest problems is, you learn how to train and feed your body in that state of being, you know, when super physiological, you know, doses of antibiotics. So what you think you know about training is not right because then you go off and now you're natural and you're training your body, or at least you remember how to train your body when you were on all this stuff. And it's like, my body's not responding like it used to. I just want to stop everything.

Did you find you had to change your training eventually and just kind of figure it out? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And a lot of it happened naturally is during the time that I had kind of got clean off of the gear, this is now four, five years of getting clean off of narcotics and a valve call. One of the guys that not only did I party with, but that I trained with and used to hear with a lot was a guy by the name of Orlando Sanchez.

And he transitioned from being a power lifter and bodybuilder, and he's just a naturally gifted guy. I mean, he was squatting five plates, you know, no problem for reps. And he was one of those guys. Big man. But he transitioned from powerlifting into Jiu-Jitsu. And so he got me into Jiu-Jitsu as a way of kind of like, scraping me up off the ground of the depression

and the fallout. And so naturally I had to stop being so worried about carb count and nutrition timing and feed myself for performance and for health. And the tie-in helped tremendously because I started to realize how not only how my body would react as far as my physique and the aesthetics to certain foods, but how my body would feel. If I was going to go train, yeah,

it's okay to have a couple bananas. Maybe one of the most brilliant things you did. Yeah. I did the exact same thing. I did the exact same thing. I went from heavy, heavy training, and then, and I would take the over-the-counter designer steroids, which you can't buy them anymore,

but when that long ago, you could buy like, you know, methyl masterdraw, or whatever, which were basically steroids that you buy over the counter. And I take those and there was a moment where I said I gotta stop all this and start taking care of myself. I did the exact same thing. I started doing Jiu-Jitsu.

And Jiu-Jitsu was so good because if you wanna be good at Jiu-Jitsu, you have to focus on the technique and being the biggest, strongest dude isn't necessarily gonna help you. So I was able to take my mind off of the, I gotta be big and strong and okay, I want to perform a Jiu-Jitsu. I was able to change my diet, able to change my training,

and it really helped that transition because if I just stayed in the weight training aspect of it, I think it would have been so much harder. Yeah, and if I would have stayed in it, and I never, I never in a million years was one, I never was one of those kids that's sad at home when I was a little kid. Like a secret or something.

I never thought I'd be doing what I wanted, what I'm doing now. I never thought I'd be on TV or something like that. So if I would have stayed in that world, you know, when I was 22, I was 225 pounds. And my traps were hitting my my my gears can't exactly go on TV like that Unless you're the rock It's hard to it's hard to present on access Hollywood when you're wearing size 56 suit

So yeah, it's just one of those things that it happened to work out in a way that was serendipitous How did you get into what you're doing now? How did that start? God, man, I was I was a wannabe rock star and that's where the drugs and alcohol came in and when that failed for myriad of reasons I moved back to LA. I'm actually from here and It came hat in hand to my parents saying that I need help. And I got a job at K-Rock, the radio station here, the rock radio station here, as like a side gig, you know, as a way to put food on the table and to pay my rent.

Just at entry level job. Now you just walked in and applied there or you said connections at all? No, no, no, no, no, I was literally looking for jobs. And I was a custodian at a prosthetics lab. And I was, so this could have been almost anything that's kind of crazy. And I was just looking for like job availability.

And they were hiring at the entry level, to push boxes and drive the jocs around and stuff, like that hand out stickers. And so I applied. I got a job there and I started like prank calling the morning show and doing pranks around the station. And on purpose or like they told you to or you were just fucking out. No, I was just busting balls. It seemed like an incredibly good place us in balls and it really was.

Oh, that's great. And it about a year later of working in that job, the morning show was hiring for an assistant production job. And they people around the station and said, like, oh, this guy's funny and he's really stupid. He'll do. And they hired me and then that was like 2003. And then I just, I had a career in broadcasting.

I don't know how. I mean, it was one of those things that you couldn't believe. I mean, when you got into it, did you feel like you were a natural right away? No, no, no. I was like, I look back to our old episodes. I think we'll tear apart. Right, I was good, but everybody else.

I just don't know how to say be terrible. Right, I was good, but everybody else was. I just had to say completely. But no, no, and when I'd get on the air, I felt self-conscious and I was nervous. And I felt like I was a naturally funny person and that somehow I couldn't translate that to being funny on the air. I'd get so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so self-aware. But then, like with anything, reps happen. Yeah. And I, my heart rate stopped changing

when I was on the air and off the air and then things happen. And I, I really, by total accent, built a career in broadcasting and then got on TV and that was, you know. Do you remember? And you're like the jingle master. I have a, I'm a, I, that is,

if I have any God-given talent, and see ability to, on the spot make up silly stupid catchy songs. Yeah, yeah, great to great talent. It's been it's been great for for like podcasting and stupid jingles on the radio. Yeah, but it's been excellent. I had a daughter and I can just make up bullshit songs about like, oh, look at the balloon is going to the moon and we can say she thinks it's

my kids make me read every single Story I have to like make shit up and like make it about poop and farts and whatever Just to keep their entertainment, but it's awesome because they think you're John Lennon Do you remember my ego? Do you remember points in your career that were like milestones like that you were like kind of leveling up your skill set Do you remember? Yeah. I was like the first big like moment for you on radio where you're just like, fuck yeah, killed it or I'm doing things or. Well, there was the moment where I realized the morning show I was on the Kevin and Bean morning show here is, you know, it's been on the air in Los Angeles for 30 years. It was this cornerstone of broadcasting in the largest radio market there is.

And when I realized that they trusted me to be on the air without any cause, without any double checking, when they knew that if I had something to say that they could turn to me, that was something that really meant something to me. But when I started hosting Love Line, that was it. I grew up listening to Love Line. I grew up taking Corolla and Drew's advice and really applying it and thinking it was so hysterical and crank calling the show. I pranked Corolla and Drew twice. As a little kid, you know?

Do you remember what you said? Yeah, one time I called Cypress Hill was the guest. This is probably like 92, 93. And you're like 12 or 13. Yeah, yeah, it was summer before eighth grade or summer before freshman year, but it's somewhere in that ballpark. Same with the membrane around the, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Cypress Hill was the guest, and I called saying that I smoked so much weed that I could lactate, that my breasts had grown, and I could actually like, and Dr. Drew's like, well, that's physiologically important. So, yeah, I'm good. And B-Rill was like, no, I'm not urban with this.

I think I have a homeboy, doesn't say anything. I've heard about that. Yeah, that was my only successful prank call. You know, at least in my eyes was successful. Yeah, first 15 minutes of favorite. Yeah, sure. So when I started hosting the show,

it's for a long period of time. For like six months in, it seemed surreal. Like, I couldn't believe that I get to interview rappers and rock stars and take kids calls about sex and drugs and stuff. Like that's what I do for a living and people pay me for it. This is a fucking awesome. Weird. Yeah. How did you meet them then at that? Because you were a fan. How did you get a chance to meet them and get on the show? Oh well, the flagship station for Love Line was K-Rock. So I was already working at the station. was K-Rock. So I was already working at the station. And Corolla had left to go on and do his own morning show. And so there was this vacancy. And for a period of time, Drew tried to do the show by himself.

And I took it upon myself to throw my hat in the ring and I approached the program director. And I said, I really think, you know, with my experience and being in recovery and being a complete sexual fuck up that I like bring something to the show. So start trying me out and then lo and behold they thought it was a good idea to hire me. How about the beginning of your podcast now, Swole Patrol? How did that start? It really was organic like when Drew and I stopped doing Love Line. When was that by the way? When did you guys stop doing that? 2015? 2015? Yeah, somewhere around Line. What was that by the way, when did you guys stop doing that? 2015? 2015?

Yeah, somewhere around there. It was already a particular reason why it stopped. It was quite popular. Yeah, I started to have other work and then the show itself, because of the prescription pill epidemic, it had transformed into an addiction show. And it was an abuse and addiction show.

And I had felt like it was starting to take its toll on me. It was really, it was actually interesting, emotionally taking its toll. I can only come home from work at one of the morning every night and talk to three people about being raped and four people about being touched by their father and another 20 people about how their wife's leaving them because they're addicted to percise. And I was like, I'm not, I didn't have any training. I'm not a psychiatrist.

I'm not an MD. I don't, I can't deal with this, you know. And so I told Drew, will the show go on if I leave? Yes. He's like, yeah, I don't like it, but I'll figure out something to do. So I resigned from doing it. And was that a big risk for you financially? I think that was probably a big bulk of your income

and time where you make another stuff on side gigs that I didn't really stress you out on. It was a big risk financially in a sense, but at the same time, my wife's an actress and a successful one. So I mean, not the sound like, you know, well, I'll just rely on my sugar mama. But it was, you know, there was no real overreaching threat because my wife was on a ticket. The bills are getting in again.

My wife was on a network sitcom. You know, it was like, it was this stupid money, you know, you know, for her. So the bills would be taken over. And I had other established jobs. But you know, it's something that I really felt like in the long term, it was gonna be beneficial for me. Even though I really did love doing it. Drew figured that the show would go on,

I think like four months after me leaving the show, Drew's like, I can't do this. Marish, he just, I know that he, a piece of it was that he really liked doing it with me and it wasn't the same without doing it with me. But another piece of it was, Drew been doing it for 32 years. Damn, it was that long.

I was doing it for six and I was feeling very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, I grew up a kid. It's been that long. That's right. I got all my sex education in high school. I remember listening to him too, I didn't realize it was that long. Yeah, exactly. It's been that long. That's right. I got all my sex education in high school. I remember listening to it. I didn't realize it was that long.

It was the longest running syndicated radio show in America. Oh, wow. Crazy. 32, you know, in the early 80s, it started. And I think he had really felt it transformed too. Because when it started, that was like at the height of the AIDS epidemic. Right. It was all sex talk.

STD and sex talk, they really needed that show. And in the 90s, it continued because there was the fallout from the AIDS explosion or what was perceived to be the AIDS explosion. And there was the introduction to the first American heroine explosion after the crack epidemic. And so there was constantly this ever changing need to have a show like that.

I think the internet changed a lot, when kids could start googling everything and then feeling like they were the expert, they didn't need to check with the doctor anymore. And honestly, the prescription pill stuff just deflated everything. It's bad. It's horrifying.

You know what I mean? And it's totally different than other narcotic problems. It makes sense why Drew was so like, eh! About it right away. He says I brought it up. You could tell that's just like a sour taste in his mouth. Well, because then he'll be the first to admit it.

It's his colleagues that are causing the problem. It's that, you know, there's such a lack of understanding of the disease of addiction amongst the medical community. You know, people always get into a big farm. The reality is that people are prescribing some of the most powerful and dangerous drugs on the planet for people with broken fingers. And that's something that shouldn't be done.

You said that you were having a tough time when it got to that point and coming home and dealing with all that. And I find there to be a very therapeutic effect from our show just for me. And we've all talked about this. Do you find podcasting to be therapeutic for you as well? I do when the scene is right.

Yeah, man, if we're talking nutrition and training with people, experts in the field, it's nothing like it. You know, it's great But anytime you can do get paid to do something that you really legitimately would do off air anyways I mean you got you you guys will get out of this podcast get back in an uber and continue to talk training and and nutrition Absolutely, you know, so it's it's awesome that you can do that and I'm the same way. So for me it's awesome that you can do that, and I'm the same way. So for me, it's awesome. Now, when it goes south and it becomes work, yeah, it can suck. You know, when you get someone on who's dogmatic

about certain things or refuse this to be open mind about certain ideas or gives one word to answers, you know, when you have all the time just interviewing some of them. How often does that happen when you get an interview? I feel like it almost every, but I'm always wrong. Somebody who I think is going to be amazing, they sit down get an interview? I feel like it almost, every, I'm always wrong. Somebody who I think is gonna be amazing, they sit down on the chair and I'm like, fuck and dry a shit or dogmatic or just one word answers.

It's really particularly frustrating and podcasting because you reach out to these people thinking that they're experts in the field and they're gonna have something to say. In the old radio days, it was something you prepare for because you don't oftentimes expect rock stars and stuff to be lighting the airwaves on fire. I mean, I'll have time there a little bit in there.

She's like, potentially high. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you go into interviewing bands and stuff, knowing like, well, there's a potential these guys are going to fucking suck. Let them plug their album or high. I got carried this thing. Right. So, but it's kind of, it is a little bit frustrating in podcasts, because you're like, why did you even agree frustrating in podcasts because you're like, why did you even agree to do this if you're not, I mean, the whole point of a podcast is for you to kind of promote what you're doing and give some dialogue. Yeah, enthusiastic, yeah.

So then, so let's get to Swole Patrol. How did that go? How did that start? Well, Drew and I had always been, and you even commented when you sat down. It's like alarming how muscular Drew is. I mean, a lot of people don't really know that. I didn't even know that.

I walked in, I'm like, this guy's gonna see that on TV. Yeah, Drew's got like 17 in charge. Drew's really into lifting and training, and he likes it, and he's into it, and he's interested in it, and intrigued by it. And we always, always, man, every, pretty much every second off the air, if we weren't talking Instagram models, we were talking about,

I feel like something you guys could be just like, and for sure, we all in the same town, we don't be hanging out with each other. And then I'll show Drew like some Instagram models that I see some new girl that I find. And he analyzes it like, this is a breeder tape. It's like, oh, yeah, see, let me put my glasses on.

Yeah, I see what you did there. Nice to waste for a few here. But we were constantly talking, training, constantly talking, lifting and exercise and nutrition. And people would request it. Yeah, we would get tweets, we would get bubble. And people would send us tweets. I just started doing keto.

What do you think about? I'm feeling tired, fly the little, getting all these wacky questions. And then naturally, just like the idea came about now that we weren't working in radio together, let's try to do a podcast together. And so what would, what should we do to kind of separate it? And we thought, let's do a health and fitness one,

and then it just kind of came about. Now is it hard? Because there was a couple of times when we were talking earlier where you would comment and you'd say, yeah, you didn't listen to me when I was saying it for the last couple of years to listen to someone else. Sometimes a medical community can be so difficult

to convince or to talk to when it comes to nutrition and training. Some of the most pushback I've ever gotten in fitness has been from doctors, you know, like telling them, like, no, I don't think Mrs. Johnson should eat a 75% carbohydrate diet. I think he's eliminated. How was that, has that worked between you guys?

Well, I don't think he doesn't listen to me because he's a doctor. I think he doesn't listen to me because I'm me. So, it's your pushback I get isn't from a medical perspective. I think it's just that he just doesn't listen Which you know I just you got to understand like when you have that much understanding of the human body and physiological activity and when people are not scientists you are you you it's easy to be dismissive you know and I totally

Understand it much like if some fat fuck came to you guys and started giving you training advice, it would be very easy to just be dismissive about it. The human body has so many millions of different cellular processes that someone like myself who has really very little understanding of those from a physiological standpoint. I oftentimes defer to him even when it comes to certain things. So there was never any real friction in me not getting him to, but there was a tremendous amount of validation when in turn, right?

A total of you is down the road. I'd be like, see you asshole if you want to. Yeah. Well plus there's so much, I mean, let's be honest, there's so much bullshit in our industry. I mean, the supplement market alone is just absolutely insane. You've been doing this long enough to see all the different pieces of that market grow.

And I mean, when we were working out as kids, there wasn't a pre-workout supplement market, really. No. Now all of a sudden, it's like, you gotta have your pre-workout something up with the right amino acids and the right, you know, whatever. And kids are always tweeting me. They're like, what's the best pre workout I go coffee?

Yeah, nothing better. It's pretty awesome. Right. It's amazing. It's cheap and it's effective. It would be a proper one ingredient at the worst. I just read, I just showed these guys a study that just today where they compare two groups of people.

One group had 100 milligrams of caffeine, tyrosine, theine, I forgot a couple other neutropics. And then the other group just had the caffeine. Guess which one performed better? Really? The pure caffeine group performed better. So what a drug. Yeah, although the subjective effects of the other stuff was they felt more awake. Yeah. But when they actually did the cognitive test, the pure caffeine group. I've said that hands down. Overall, if you really do a checks and balances of the ups and downs side effects, caffeine is the best drug on earth. What most widely used?

And it's just the best. As far as effectiveness, as far as desired effect, effectiveness, safety, lack of side effect and loss of benefit. Lack of long term, you know, any prolonged effects. It's the best because like cocaine's awesome. I put LSD up there and everything. But there's always a litany of negative fallout on the back end and with caffeine.

And it's just, I mean, I can't think, maybe aspirin, you knowin is another up there winner. Which is fascinating, because we're in the middle right now in the last 10, 15 years, the pre-workout market is just exploded. The number one supplement that sold, and really right now,

all the majority of the benefits that everybody feels. It's all stimulants they put in on. Right, but I mean, the majority, the real bang for the buck in those things is the caffeine. Right. And all they're doing is just jumping it up. I mean, to be fair, I will occasionally turn to those, but I gotta be honest, mostly it's just because of like the taste.

Sometimes I'll find one like a bang or something where I'm like, this is fucking delicious. It's got no calories and everything. I said, you know, one out of three workouts, they'll turn to something. I think it was, was it super pump 250 that really blew that market up? I remember the advertising in the magazines.

It was absolutely brilliant. They would show guys before and after the workout. So they'd have these dudes that already had a lot of muscle and everybody, anybody who lifts weights, knows. If you got a decent amount of muscle, you look way different when you get a pump. And they'd be like, before and after super pumped, 250, I'm like, I remember reading the magazine,

be like, these motherfuckers, this is some brilliant shit. It's like the biggest group of snake oil salesmen. Oh my God. It's up in that market. Oh, it's terrible. It's crazy. It's absolutely terrible. Is there anything that you use now on a regular basis?

Not real fish oil. I know, creatine. I admit, I- Crétine's the most stunning that come on. That's the people benefits for sure. regular basis, not real, fish oil, you know, creatine, I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, my vitamin D, so I did, but besides that, and it's literally the exact same stuff except for the magnesium, what are the two? The two, the other, the two kind of, you know, gray market things that I'm seeing now

that you're starting to hear athletes talk about using, endurance athletes are using cannabis to enhance the performance and endurance, and then I've been reading now that some lifters are using Viagra. Yeah. Have you heard of this? I heard about that.

Now that was an old school thing. I remember as a kid coming in the gym and seeing pills of Viagra on the floor and stuff. So that was something that they used to do back then. Now the theory back then was. The pump, right. The NO2 was to vasodilate you, and that's why they did it back then.

Now I don't know how much of that is true or if it actually really works or you just get a picture Jackson told me not to name drop too much, but I work out it at gold and Venice. So I mean, I'm constantly bumping elbows, but he's like, it makes no sense. Why would you want to get your pump quicker? You want to delay the pump so that you could get more, the idea of taking a Viagra and then I'm artificially swirled up at 10 reps when I could have gotten 16. That's an interesting theory. Well, the studies that they, that's an interesting theory though, what are you saying?

Because I could see people who don't really track their workouts or planning to have that, that you chase the pump, you get this pump, you're like, oh cool, I'm done. You know, I'm saying, I got this massive pump down. Right, right. And maybe not even realizing that they could be doing exercises that are more effective or whatever, because they're getting a pump so easy. Right. Yeah, they did studies on it and showed improved performance at altitude.

Otherwise, they didn't see any improved athletic performance. The other one that I'm seeing in this gray market kind of thing is this microdosing of LSD. Yeah. You're starting to see a lot of that where people have you heard about any of this? Yeah. I know it's like some, some entertainment types and some tech eeks that do it and they they Report amazing benefits. It's something I can even think about doing because of

addiction, but you know, whatever Drew is even signing off on they're doing ketamine infusion, you know, in a clinical setting. For depression? For depression. And they're seeing a lot of huge benefits from that. And the MDMA, you know, for like, couples therapy and stuff. So I'm sure, listen, every drug, whether we could consider them, quote unquote, good or bad, was invented for a reason. Right.

And every single drug, it drew, always says, there's no such thing as a good or bad drug. There's just how you use it. Every drug is good, every drug is bad. It's just a matter of, in what capacity? Morphean, if you got shot in the stomach, is the best thing in the world. Morphean, if you're in World War One, is a godsend.

Morphean, if you are addicted to it, and you're taking it because you're a soccer mom that is depressed, is the worst thing on the plate, you and if you're gonna use mdma for couples therapy it's fantastic if you're at EDC and you're taking every week What is your training and diet look like now you had mentioned Keto style diet or you know not as much for me because you know with Muay Thai and and No, not as much for me because you know with Muay Thai and and jujitsu and stuff like I just yeah, I feel like when I'm not Glicolitic I I balk too quickly man, and the stakes are too and not so much in jujitsu because I'll just tap

But in Muay Thai if I if I'm Amitted into a three-minute round and I'm tired like I'm like that's not a good place to be and it's terrifying It's more terrifying than anything when I feel like I can't even raise my hands and this guy's can't even be the fucking head. So I'm much more, I'm cognizant of my carben take, but I'm much more carb-pued than someone who would be in a ketogenic diet. And I train, I do resistance training day one. I'll do some type of interval training day two and then take day three off.

Now that doesn't mean completely off all of my train in a martial art, but as far as, you know, fitness kind of. And then I just repeat that. So, you know, one, two, three is my breakdown. It worked for me and I try to try to stay active throughout the day, too. It's another thing. I, you know, I, I'm not one from my old bodybuilding days. I used to train as hard as I possibly could and then just try to engage in nothing but recovery. Try to conserve talent side of a house. And now I'm constantly going on walks just because and trying to go out for swim, go

surf, whatever it is, just these little teeny bursts of activity throughout. What consumes most of your time now, like business-wise, like how much are you putting towards podcasting, how much TV, how much radio, like what's your... TV's the most as far as business. Radio takes up very little, I only do radio once a week now,

on serious XM, on my friend Jason Ellis, the Jason Ellis show, his faction talk. And that's only once a week, so that's my only real radio commitment. But television with Access Hollywood has been probably my biggest right now. Yeah, my biggest commitment. Talk about it.

I mean, I don't think I have any friends that actually have the experience like you do in all three of those facets and then even dabbling and doing what you're doing and podcasting, What do you see the difference in all the different mediums like everything from financially to how you enjoy it, to creative control. So number one biggest difference and that's why podcasting is about now obviously television, financially is still

the best. I mean there's nothing like. As far as work, actual work you do to the money you get paid, television's still science fiction. You go, what? What? You're going to pay this much? Now, it's not because it's such hard work, it's not. And whether you're an actor or a broadcaster, you get paid way too much for the work that you do.

The reason you can pay so much in television is because there's more job applicants than any other job in the world, And there's less job openings. So to get through the crucible of actually getting a job, a high paying job in television, whether you're an actor or a broadcaster, getting to the point where you got there, you had to eat so much shit, and you had to do so much, you had to work so much,

and deal with so much of being told no, and rejection and ridicule, and all that to get to the point where you actually have that job that's why they pay you ridiculous amounts of money you know even more so in acting my wife's an actor and She and she her life's good and the amount of bullshit that they have to put up with is so Fucking insane. I mean, it's truly it's remarkable the amount of fucking insane. I mean, it's truly, it's remarkable the amount of ridicule, the amount of dismissiveness and rejection and how brutal that industry is. That's why they can pay, because it's not the work that they do. Filming a half hour sitcom is not that hard, and it's not

that it really takes very little work and you get paid insane amounts of money. But to get to the point where you're doing that, you had to do so much and endure so much. Now, what about like the politics? Is it very political? A lot of shit like that too? Yeah, I just did an online piece for Control Forever, which is like an online news outlet, and they have me do an online investigative thing for interviewing the bloods and the crypts and then getting to know the modern day aspect the modern day life of gang bangers, you know, so it was fascinating, right? But I was talking to this girl yesterday when I was doing that. She's a she's a blood and she's

young lady like her early 30s and she was talking about her life and she said you obviously didn't wear that. I was just going to stay here. I was so funny. It's so funny how I had to really go out of my way to find clothes that aren't blue and red. Right. I was like, man, is that true? Yeah, so I had to wear like black pants and a white t-shirt. But she said, listen, the streets don't care.

The streets don't care about you at all. And the same goes the entertainment industry. The entertainment industry doesn't care and that and you can get This idea that hey, oh this manager. He actually he's my friend many cares by this this producer on this TV show man Oh, he's he's looking out for my best interest. No, the industry as a whole is a monolith and they don't give a fuck It's about bottom line more more so it's a more callous industry and more divorced industry from human emotion than any other. Wow.

What is it? What is it? Even more so than athletics, because at least athletics, you understand that. Right. You go and you can see, you see the performance to get it right away. It's like, sorry, you're not gonna get the job done.

We gotta cut you. We love you. You're your hometown favorite. You know, the fans love you. But, what's the thing on it? Now, do you and your wife get the job done, we gotta cut you. We love you, you're your hometown favorite. You know, the fans love you, but- Now do you guys, do you and your wife get like feedback? Like, oh, the show's performing really well, this and that, and you know, or, hey, it's under performing step up, do you get any of that feedback?

Yeah, I mean, my wife, much more so. I mean, the actors constantly ratings are just such, unless it's streaming service like Netflix or something, you know, that's really much more subjective, but networks, it's constantly just analyzing the trades and reading, you know, ratings and stuff. I mean, they're inviting those nails and wondering when, you know, your show's going to get its acts, you know. How has Hollywood changed as a result of like Netflix and streaming? Yeah, the new media has been seen. Yeah. It's. The radio has changed because of podcasting so much.

And I think, I don't know if Hollywood's changing quick enough, that's the problem. They don't, I mean, I don't understand how networks. Now, I'm very blind to the reality that is, I always say to myself, how can anybody watch this bullshit show, fill in the blank show on CBS, NBC, ABC? And what I don't realize is that's because all my cool hip friends are all talking about

this new HBO and Netflix show. But the reality is, 25 million fucking people watch this show that I think is so stupid. So we all can make fun of in how archaic this system is, but clearly with advertising and with ratings, the networks are still doing something right. They're just not on the cutting edge. If you watch, it's a big ship too, that's hard to turn.

It's a hard ship to turn. And recently Rolling Stone magazine was up for sale and they were filing for bankruptcy and it was this big deal. Rolling Stone, how good. And my friends are like, how could Rolling Stone have come so far and gone so far down? And I say, it's very easy.

Didn't evolve. And I could totally understand. So I'm doing it. If I'm the editor-in-chief of Rolling Stone and I have Iggy Pop on my speed dial and I have Dave Grohl on my speed,, and I have Dave Grohl on my speed, and I'm just chit chatting with Trent Rezner. Do you think I'm gonna let someone from Vice

tell me how to do my job? You know, I was like, are you kidding me? I used to party backstage with Led Zeppelin. You little kids and your new internet, your new fangle, you're gonna tell me how to do my thing. It's very easy to understand how people get stuck in their ways when they've had such large amounts of success.

And the same thing goes, I think, with radio and pot, you know, oh, really? A couple million people listen to Joe Rogan's podcast. You know what, I've got ratings all throughout the 80s and 90s. I used to back the brink truck up with my radio station. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's very easy to get caught up in this idea that,

well, I've had such amazing success, how could there be a new way of doing things? And the reality is, there's definitely a new way of doing things. So is that part of the pivot for you guys to even have swole patrols? Is it kind of like to protect yourself? Because I think it's really smart that you got,

I mean, you think about, you've got your hands in almost everything. That was a latent benefit. The reality was, I wanted to have something that I could have creative control over because I love doing Axis Hollywood, but I go in and I'm told. You do the time.

I do it the boss, tell me. I mean, I get to interview people and it's a live show, which is awesome. You know, it's great. And I get to interview people that, in a fashion that I want to ask, the question I want to ask. But when the show's over, you better believe the producer fluffs or draws a blank or other, I'm sure there's been times that you've picked up over the years of tactics if you have a guest that Fluffs or draws a blank or other the airy time I'm sure there's been times where you've been stuck in that situation like and it's I just remind I always remind myself don't take it too

Seriously, you're talking about Paris Hilton and and Beyonce, you know what I'm saying like I'm not on 60 minutes Right and I believe me. I like that in today's Television world television news is so divisive and it's so vitriolic, I'm very happy to talk about fluff. People are like, oh, it's superficial. I'm like, you're damn right. But at least no one's yelling at me. I did political talk radio for three or four years and it got, as soon as the Trump, and

not even his presidency, as soon as the campaign started. This is to say nothing about the president in a political fact, I'm just simply saying that the environment that he ushered in, at the beginning of the campaign, let alone his presidency, it got to the point that no matter what I said, people were gonna call and yell at me. And I'm like, oh, some people may thrive on that.

It's not for me. I'm very happy to go talk about some new reality show. Sex tape, I'd rather talk about that. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But as far as like the when things go poor and when things fail on a live setting, I just remind myself like, you're on a live show about entertainment news, have fun with it. And the nothing that we're doing is of any concern to anybody.

Really, you know. Yeah, it's fun. It's a great job and I'm sure people enjoy watching it, but this is not consequential. It's not. Any guests that you wrote the wrong way? Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

Yeah, one of the spice go, not so much in a wrong way, like seriously, like she after the show was over, she gave me a hug and she was laughing about it, but I was busing her chops that she said her kids love Spice World. I was like, no one like Spice World. Oh no. This is not true.

They like it because you're in it because mommy's in a movie, but that movie, they don't like that movie. Don't try, they were much rather watch frozen. This Spice World. Don't try to pull that out in, I didn't really like Silly. Like the cameraman were laughing,'t try to pull that out. And I didn't really like silly. Like the cameraman were laughing.

You know. That's hilarious. Well, shit, man. Thanks for let us talk to you. Absolutely. And honestly, it was my pleasure. I'm glad we could finally work it out. Yeah, for sure.

I don't have you guys up at the studio. You guys are better. You guys are better. Yeah. I do with relative frequency. My friend, my wife's family has, you know, she has extended family in San Jose. So everyone's small, but Drew,

now Drew just doesn't travel for business. Oh, we don't even need Drew. He's such an overwhelming, busy guy. I was, you know, I wanted to ask him, but he was out of, I was like, this guy is on every fucking show. And he's a doctor. I know. He still sees patients.

He's still a fucking doctor I'll still put this stuff a scope on and goes in. Oh, yes. Your knee feels a little bit. That's crazy. I know Crazy I know I gotta step up my game. Yeah, next time you're up in the area man. Get let us know We'll have you come into our studio. Yeah, always welcome brother. I would love that excellent. Thank you very much All right. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com.

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