Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 874: Hypertrophy Training While Dieting, How to Rest Your CNS, the Possibility of a Mind Pump Personal Trainer Network & MORE

Episode Date: October 6, 2018

Organifi Quah! In this episode of Quah, sponsored by Organifi (organifi.com, code "mindpump" for 20% off), Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about the best and most efficient way to rest the CNS, the benefits to training for hypertrophy while dieting, if a Mind Pump Personal Trainer network is in the works and if they ever wonder if they are swinging out of their league when it comes to their partner. Welcome back Craig “Thundarr the Barbarian” Capurso! (6:12) How has fatherhood changed him? (11:15) Radical Honesty: Why he left Bodybuilding.com and how has it affected his business. (16:32) The true reason behind why Craig is not a part of the Mind Pump Podcast. (19:37) Does he ever look back at his life and say “what if?” (23:18) How has he grown mentally? (24:50) Why it’s not about the number of people that follow you, it’s the quality. (26:30) The transition/evolution of his training. (29:10) Do fitness professionals have a responsibility to promote great content? (34:40) His thoughts about getting back into the podcast space. (35:49) No rules to this game: Intellectual Dark Web and long-form discussion revolution. (41:55) Updates on Metron. (44:02) What benefits/setbacks has he seen from his China effort? (52:28) Future plans? (54:40) Has he refined his elevator pitch? (58:32) The movement of healing your body through food and not just supplementation. (59:18) His next big venture…Gym Owner?! (1:03:06) Craig turns the tide…Who is the guy’s favorite recent interview? (1:05:40) Burning the candle at both ends: The work/life balance. (1:11:15) Adam’s journey from start to finish: His mind shift from stage competitor to podcaster. (1:15:30) #Quah question #1 – What is the best and most efficient way to rest the CNS? (1:21:31) #Quah question #2 – Is there any benefit to training for hypertrophy while dieting? (1:33:31) #Quah question #3 – Will you guys come out with a Mind Pump Personal Trainer network? (1:41:44) #Quah question #4 – Do you ever wonder if you are swinging out of your league when it comes to your partner? (1:48:20) Featured Guest: Craig Capurso (@craigcapurso) Instagram People Mentioned: Joe Rogan (@joerogan)  Instagram Jordan Peterson (@jordan.b.peterson)  Instagram Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro)  Twitter Stan "Rhino" Efferding (@stanefferding)  Instagram Warren Farrell, PhD (@drwarrenfarrell)  Twitter Joe De Sena (@realJoeDeSena)  Twitter Flex Wheeler ® | Official (@officialflexwheeler)  Instagram Tom Bilyeu (@tombilyeu)  Instagram Bishop Robert Barron (@bishopbarron)  Instagram Links/Products Mentioned: Skinny Dipped **Enter the code “MINDPUMP” for 20% off** Organifi   **Code “mindpump” for 20% off** MAPS Aesthetic  **Code “BLACK50” for ½ off for the month of October!** Leave a 5 Star Review at the Mind Pump Facebook page, win a T-shirt!!  Thundarr the Barbarian The D10  ROMWOD // Optimize your Range of Motion Meet the Renegades of the Intellectual Dark Web  Metron Cellucor - Global Leader in Sports Nutrition Innovation  Rockbox Fitness Franchise  Mind Pump Episode 865: Stan Efferding: The World's Strongest Bodybuilder Mind Pump Episode 872: Dr. Warren Farrell- The Boy Crisis Mind Pump Episode 595: Joe DeSena Mind Pump Episode 855: Flex Wheeler Mind Pump Episode 496: Tom Bilyeu  Mind Pump Episode 827: Bishop Barron - Using YouTube & Social Media to Demystify Christianity & God  Brain.fm  Mind Pump FREE Resources – Everything You Need to Know to Reach Your Fitness Goals Get our newest program, MAPS Strong, an expertly programmed and phased strongman inspired training program designed in collaboration with World’s Strongest Man competitor Robert Oberst to trigger new muscle building adaptations and get you STRONG. Get it at www.mapsstrong.com! Get MAPS Prime, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic, the Butt Builder Blueprint, the Sexy Athlete Mod AND KB4A (The MAPS Super Bundle) packaged together at a substantial DISCOUNT at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Also check out Thrive Market! Thrive Market makes purchasing organic, non-GMO affordable. With prices up to 50% off retail, Thrive Market blows away most conventional, non-organic foods. PLUS, they offer a NO RISK way to get started which includes: 1. One FREE month’s membership 2. 25% off your first purchase How can you go wrong with this offer? To take advantage of this offer go to www.thrivemarket.com/mindpump Would you like to be coached by Sal, Adam & Justin? You can get 30 days of virtual coaching from them for FREE at www.mindpumpmedia.com. Make EVERY workout better with MAPS Prime, the only pre-workout you need… it is now available at mindpumpmedia.com Have Sal, Adam & Justin personally train you via video instruction on our YouTube channel, Mind Pump TV. Be sure to Subscribe for updates. Go to foursigmatic.com/mindpump and use the discount code “mindpump” for 15% off of your first order of health & energy boosting mushroom products. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Each week our favorite reviewers are announced on the show and sent Mind Pump T-shirts! Have questions for Mind Pump? Each Monday on Instagram (@mindpumpmedia) look for the QUAH post and input your question there. (Sal, Adam & Justin will answer as many questions as they can)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. This was a little fun switch up for us. We had our boy Craig down in the studio, and so we got a chance to sit down and catch up with him. It's always a pleasure. It's fun, dude. What do you stop, Justin? What, dude? God, you know, who gave him the peanut butter skinny dip?

I'm glad that you called him out. Guys, you let me get any lunch today. Yeah, all right. First of all, yeah, we had a bad stomach earlier. What's the sign here? You know what he's like to do? What's the sign there? Dude, what are we trying to send you a message over here again?

Yeah, yeah. Fuckin' sell, not feeding you. Yeah, so you got it. No, speaking of skinny dips, have you guys had, Oh, back away. Have you guys had, I'll back away. Have you guys had the new pumpkin spice flavors? Oh my God.

So good. So I got to tell the audience so they know, because I know we have our coupon code with them, but the two new flavors, one of them I think is crann something that's just really good to end the pumpkin spice, which is addicting a shit. Those you have to,

to crann yogurt. Those you can only get into target. Orange cranberry. Oh, that was wild. Greek yogurt, orange cranberry, so one. So those you can get at target, you can't get those online. So if you want to get them before they release online,

you have to go and target to buy them. Unfortunately, you don't get the mind pump hook up. Although you could probably try and harass the target kid that's scanning them and see if you can get to that. Tell us we send you. And then in the ones just and of course it's always eating is the peanut bar chocolate. I mean it doesn't get better either.

Oh my god. But anyways, so in this episode of Mind Pump, God was a 70 minute intro, but that's because we had our buddy Craig here, who's actually one of the original members of the Mind Pump gang. So we talked to him about fatherhood. He's actually a dad, he's got a beautiful young little daughter and it's pretty cool to hear this. He sounds a lot like a father.

Yeah, he does, it's great to hear the transition. Much wiser, right, just in three years. So much wisdom, he's got lots of wisdom. Soothing from his, poor like body. His hair grew back too, by the way. He had to cut his short for a second.

He had nice long, luxurious hair. Right, right. Say, like, luxurious at him. Yeah, luxurious. You did it, you did it. We talk about Craig's early days in Mind Pump. We talk about his training. He is an animal.

Talk about his company, METRON, his other company, Rockbox. And then we talked about, he actually flipped it on us and started interviewing us a little bit. And he started talking to us about our favorite interviews. Of course, we did talk about skinny dipped just recently. If you go to skinnydipped.com and enter the code, mind pump, you get 20% off.

Also in the episode, we mentioned organify supplements I was talking to Craig about his transition from eating regular grain fed beef and fish from the farm stuff to organic stuff. So I was kind of poking at him a little bit, but then I mentioned Organic Supplements. Organify does make organic supplements. If you go to organify.com.com slash Mind Pump, enter the code Mind Pump, you'll get 20% off.

And then we finally get into the questions. The first question was, what is the best and most efficient way to reset your central nervous system? I bet you don't know, you could reset it. There's a special way to do it. Or can you? Exactly. Control, delete.

Yep. The next question was, is there any benefit to hypertrophy training while dieting? In other words, you're eating a deficit, should you still try to build muscle? I didn't know there was any other option. Yeah. The next question was, are we ever gonna come out with a mind pump personal trainer network?

It's, you know, personal trainers worth their weight in gold, good personal trainers. Are we ever gonna come out with a way to vet them for you so you know who you're hiring, knows what they're talking about. Don't start with Justin, and then I gotta listen to this app bullshit again. Stop it.

And the final question, do we ever wonder if we're swinging out of our league when it comes to our partners? Find out if Sal is. I feel like this guy went on Jessica's Instagram and they're like, I think that's who he's referring to. Out of this question.

Out of this eight get this dime. How the hell would this happen? Yep. It's probably because one lady. Good thing you're a confidence center. It's probably because one leg is longer than the other two. I think she was actually trying to get to me.

In your opinion, she found out I had Katrina. So I just didn't work out. Probably not what happened. It's probably me. Let's go. It's October. That can only mean two things. Number one, Halloween, good times, we're nice costumes.

Number two, probably the biggest- Study costume. Promotion, we've run all year. People have been asking us now for about 12 months. If maps aesthetic is ever gonna go on sale, well, you guys have broke our balls so much that we said yes, it's 50% off. Half.

That's right, we're just not going to pay just in this month. That's it. Hey, so I'll take one for the team. Everybody taking food out of his children's mouth. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Half off the prices.

Half off. Here's what you do. Go to mapsblack.com and use the code black50. That's BLA, CK and the number 50, no space. And you'll get 50% off. Also, if you're interested in other maps programs, let's say you're not as advanced as the requirement for maps aesthetic,

because it is a more advanced program. You can do something like maps and a ballac, or if you're an athlete, maps performance, or if you want long-term strategy, like a year of exercise programming, you could do our super bundle. You can find all of our bundles and all of our maps programs at mapsfitnisproducts.com.

And again, just to remind you, again, just in case you fast forward the last part, mapsesthetic50%offmapsblack.com. Don't forget, Sal, to what we're doing for the reviews now. We have the iTunes reviews. We've been giving out free dishes forever for you guys. So what we're going to do now is,

if you guys go over to the Facebook page, so mind pump, leave a review over there and then you guys are going to prioritize it in fact. Yeah, that's right. I'm going to pay real good attention to those reviews. So Facebook fan page, it's mind pump go over there, leave a five star review, and they enter into win a free t-shirt. These shirts, by the way, made with real rubies. Nobody believes this. Rubies. Just kidding, there's some work anymore. They're regular t-shirts.

They're more valuable though than those types of things. That's right. If you say so. That's the one too. Oh, there's that hand. There's that hand, some voice. How does someone have a hand, some voice? It's like thunderous.

Yes, thank you. It is thunderous. Get it. Get it. You guys remember that cartoon when we were kids Yes, thank you. It is thunderous. Get it? Get it? Get it? Get it? Get it. Get it.

Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it.

Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it.

Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. he would like have he had his like like whatever the fuck that things call the thing where he beats people up with it I don't know Doug if you can they flew with it just google thunder THU and D.A.R. and then put cartoon and then it'll pop up a comic or cartoon Who's a fucking cartoon? I don't know what and it was such a good cartoon. He's 45. Yeah, it's basically it's basically Craig If you was if you as a cartoon alright thunder the barbarian. That's what it was called thunder the barbarian. Let's see. Let's see Remember the shit that is a random that's not even a popular one. Yes, it was was it bro He was like a he-man remake

Like the knockoff that hey with the kids that couldn't afford the real the normal channels You're in that with your frudios. Yeah. There's like a local channel. Was this before he met? No, no, no, I don't think so. Maybe actually that's a good question. It might be. I was watching this while eating my marks. It's totally the little matey. It's the total matey. It's the total poor version dude. Right. He's like, he's like, he's like, he's like the he man without steroids. First of all, look, first of all, look carefully. He has one cut.

Tell me, tell me right now, if you were 10, you wouldn't be like all over that shit right there. He's got like an electric sword. His friend is a lion faced buff dude. And then there's a hot chick, that's his sidekick. That's like everything you ever wanted. Doug, can you see who came first? That's her he-man?

Yeah, I'm curious. Thunder or the barber. Craig! So yeah, man, so why he's looking that up. Welcome back. Hey, what's that song? Justin Is there a welcome back song? No, that I just make something up again. That was horrible. Yeah, sorry. I was gonna back you up. Anyway, welcome back, Craig. How you doing, buddy? Well, going on. Things are good, man. Why are you visiting the good? Why are you visiting San Jose? What's happening? In the the D10 is the decafon. It's a charity fundraiser for poetic, which is a pediatric cancer research.

Oh, shit. I've been with those guys since my Wall Street days. I competed in the beginning as one of the decafleets. And I complained so much early on because the judging was a little skeptical. It was like reps weren't reps. They were kind of like half reps. And judging was a little loose.

And I made such a stink. And I became someone obviously in the fitness world that I had little loose. And I made such a stink and I became someone obviously in the fitness world that I had some credibility and so they turned me into a judge. And so I thought, I could just see him being an asshole. You know what I'm gonna tell you, say like hella pissed off,

I shoulda fucking won that. I did real pushups, that motherfucker was cheating. Exactly, yeah, probably for batom. But. The owner was like, well, I can't give in because my staff's gonna see, what can I do, I know, hey, do you wanna be a judge? Yeah, I can't give in because my staff's going to see, what can I do? I know, hey, do you want to be a judge?

Yeah. We got something for you. So when's that happen? When's that happening? Saturday at, I should have the information, but it's an actually an Oakland this year. Last year was at one of the colleges and we last year, remember when we had the fire up in North Bay, right? We came in last year for that,

and they actually canceled it because the air pollution. Oh, wow. So last year's event got canceled. What are the events in this? You said the death of Losos 10, 10 events? Yes, so it starts out with a 400 meter run, and then you do, I believe it's a football toss. It's like one of the junior P.W. tosses.

So people are hawking this thing, like I think the top is like 75 yards. Okay. You know that looks like, right, so? Yeah, okay. It's kind of like a football ball, like I think the top is like 75 yards. Okay. You know that looks like right so? Yeah. Okay. It's kind of like a football ball but longer. A long kind of ball.

Yeah. A long kind of ball. Skinny or something. Oh, come on. I believe it's pull ups. And then it goes to broad jump. I forget the order, but broad jump. There's a 40 meter dash.

There's a row, 500 meter row. There's a vertical jump. A shuttle, a 15 yard shuttle, or a 5, 5, 10, 20 yard shuttle, 800 meter at the end, bench press for 175 for max reps, and if maybe that's 10, I'm not sure if I'm missing anything. This sounds pretty cool. So it's like a de-cathlon meets the combine, kind of event. And you get points, like first place for each event, get so many points, second place,

step of deal? Yeah, kind of, there's a, and if you beat some of the records, then you get like bonus points and different things. But some of these athletes, I mean, they're legit. Like some of these running, you know, events, you're getting like old college runners or even even some Olympians actually some ex Olympians had come in here and ran. So some of these event records are like serious. And you're coming out just for that. Yeah. Oh, wow. Good for you, man. For the last three. Yeah. Oh, wow. I told with them for the last three to four years when I was judging with them before that, I was just doing the Wall Street once

because I was an athlete. How many total events do they do in a year? I think they're four or five. They had a Boston one last year. They got a, I don't think they did that one this year, but they're in Chicago, Houston, San Francisco, New York City. Now, do you try and make all of them or do you? Usually I go to the ones that they, you know, I have done all of them before. You know, sometimes they'll stack different events where there's a lot of people and then

they'll usually bring me in. If it's just a small event, then they won't bring in. I got to tell you, bro, that's a change subject. But, you know, I go on your Instagram sometimes just to see, you know, what you're up to and stuff. Man, I love seeing you as a father. That's freaking rad. You know, it's a like, how do you feel?

How do you hold your door? She's shouting you. Yeah, you're basically, I know you're fucked. You know that right? You're totally screwed. I mean, she's really young now, but you're like a good 15 years away from all your hair falling out and you're going to have to, you know, console with me. I mean, you're going to have to like cry on each other shoulder.

But what's that light? Hold it. She first of all now. She's three, she just turned three. Are you doing the terrible threes now? She's got a little attitude now. She graduated from Bobblehead stage. That's why I always call it like, you know, one, one and a half year,

Bobblehead up until that point. Always in balance. And so, big old head. So now she's got this crazy little personality, but she's cool. She just learns new things every day. And we don't know where she gets some of these things from. You know, obviously I swear like a trucker.

And so she's picked that up already. No, she has. Oh, no. What did she say? Oh, shit. And I don't know how she knew it was bad, but my wife caught her. And she, I think she's like, fuck shit or something like that.

And I was probably talking to my partner online, because we get some in heated discussions. And I probably just yelling for my partner online because you know we get some and heated discussions and you know I probably just yelling for my office so she hears it. And somehow she said it and my wife was like, what'd you say? And she goes, never mind, like, newly like keep it quiet. Like where did you even know to keep that quiet? Isn't that, see it's, I have a story along those lines that's hilarious to me. My little sister, so I remember like when we figured out she was starting to pick up on swear words, so really careful if someone was going to swear on us, so we spell out

the swear words. And she would start to pick up on that, but then she would say that so when she would get frustrated or angry as a kid, she would say, PSRT. And she would always say PSRT, but that was her trying to spell a frustrating cuss word. She, it's crazy. Yeah, she didn't know, but she knew enough that when you get angry or frustrated you throw letters out yeah you throw letters out and they were always the same letters p s r t right that was what you so my son when my daughter was born because they're about

four years apart right so when she was born you know we brought her home from the hospital and my son is just he's an awe and And until this day, he absolutely adores his little sister. He's the best big brother of all time. But first day he saw her, he just couldn't take his eyes off her. And he looks at him and he's like, Bup-Bup, can I hold her? And I said, yeah, of course you can hold your sister. And I give him his little baby sister and he's holding her and he's looking at her. And he looks up at us and he goes, she's so sexy. And we're like, what? Oh, hell, I said, what? What did you say?

And he goes, she's sexy. And I said, do you know what that means? And he goes, it means she's cute. He must have heard me say it to his mom or something. Yeah. But it's hilarious. Bro, I bring that up now. My son's out 13, right?

It's like the fucking he's like, he hates it. Like, don't tell me I get Helen bears Oh, so dude look at doubt put it up there. Thundar was 1980 he man 19 that means they fucking stole What it would it mean mind blown what it means is I was watching the original so fuck everybody means you're the oldest here And it is with that. No think of that. I mean how how shitty is that if you're thunder? Someone came out and did it better three years later. I mean literally how shitty is that if you're a thundar? Someone came on, did it better. Three years later, I mean, literally, Rip, doesn't it not look exactly like

what they're missing was a skeleton. Yeah, that's what they're missing. So does your daughter have any of your traits? Like, do you argue with her? And does she argue back at you? And like, she is a clone of me in my life. We're both, our family, it's not about holding things in.

It's like, you get it out, you blow it off and then you go to bed. You know what I mean? It's like there's no going to bed mad. You have your argument and you get that thing out. So she will do it as well. And then when we yell at our dogs, she picks that up too. So now she's demanding of people. Like, because I'm like, dogs get in here, you know what I mean? And now she'll do it. She'll come right behind me.

Mugsie Mikey, get in here now! It's just hilarious to hear her be demanding, but it's like she's the politest little mean person sometimes. Like, she'll say please and thank you like, like it's ritual, you know, but she's awesome. She's, she's, she's, she's like watching you workout because I see some of your videos

where you're doing your training and she's in the background and she seems like she's genuinely interested in what you're doing, which I think's cool because I mean, she'll pick up on it, you know? Yeah, she does. She, you know, she knows when I'm out in the gym because I have the grad gym and she's genuinely interested in what you're doing, which I think is cool, because I mean, she'll pick up on it, you know? Yeah, she does. She knows when I'm out in the gym, because I have the grad gym,

and she's like, Dad, he's going up and down, up and down. So she'll say that to my wife, and she sees what's going on. She picked up this like 10 pounds down, she's walking the bedroom in the room, like one of those little pink ones that my wife has for somewhere,

and she picked it up, and she's throwing it up, and she'll smash it on the ground. I'm like, easy. But she's getting involved with it. Is she strong? Yes and no, I think, I ground. I'm like, easy. But she's getting involved. Is she strong? Yes and no. I mean, it's hard to tell.

I don't know if it's relative. But she's timid. She was very timid actually up until about three. Then she's got this cool little friend that helped her break the ice and some things. Like, for example, last summer, we were trying to get her on the swing at the swing set. And she was just like, she just had big problem with it.

But now she saw this kid go and I saw picture my wife and her in the park the other day and they're swinging like crazy, big smile. And so I brought her and she was like, can I go on the swing and I was like, I was so mad that she wouldn't do it last year. I'm like pushing her, come on, let's go. And this year now she's like, go faster.

So, I'm like in her seat, getting out of her show. Well, that's gonna be funny when she starts dating and the poor dude's gonna knock on your door and Craig answers. That's a matter of that. You guys have a match with that? You know, I must have the wrong house. Yeah.

We're gonna next door. We're gonna next door. So you've got D10 going on. You've got live life going on. You've got Metron going on. You've got Bodybuilding.com going on. You've got Cellucor going on. Fuckin' hey bro.

That's one more. Bodybuilding. Bodybuilding.com is gone. Oh, I didn't know that. As a win. At the beginning of the year, they sent a contract out and I just, I wasn't feeling it. Not, not interested. Well, we just looked up their stats

and their, that our nose died for. Well, I'm emitting in terms of how many visits and probably because, I mean, Amazon is, you're probably killing them with the supplements and there's so much. I'll speak freely, I mean, I don't really have a relationship with them anymore. Obviously, they're a distributor for SaviCorps who's a product sponsor of mine in Sivation.

But I do believe it's, I can just tell you, it's an Amazon is hurting their retail sales, but bodylin.com was smart at some point back in the day. They had a model that came in and said, we're gonna do our media content separately from our retail content. And so they have a model that came in and said, we're going to do our media content separately from our retail content. So they have a group called We Motivate, which runs all their media content. So, potable.com's a great media resource.

There's plenty of free programs and different training, but now they got the all-access model which completely was a clone of Metron. You know, Metron early, but one thing that we'll discuss in a moment, Metron's not facing that anymore. Metron's not just a software platform for coaches. Okay, well, before you get into that, explain more of the body, get a little bit deeper into what you mean by that for the bodybuilding.com, and then you can go into Metron. Well, they, I mean, for example, I put out multiple trainers on the website and the whole idea was it was going to be a free resource for people to go ahead and, you know, get information

and access to. And so the supplement companies as well as the authors like myself did this for them. We didn't get paid for it. I mean, the company, the Cellucor paid for their advertising so that they could put a program out and obviously put their supplements in there. And that's how they get attraction and sell their products, right? And so that was good traffic back to my side, back to me as a coach and an author and just good impressions for me. Now they closed it and put it behind this firewall called All Access.

And so now they're charging for all those programs. So they got like 50 plus programs that you can get access to that were once free. You did that so free. Yeah. Wow. Now how much is that? I mean, because I would assume that early on when you first started, that was probably a good portion of your traffic was probably coming.

Yes, absolutely. That's the first time I've seen you was on BodyBillion.com, so how was that affected your business and have you had to do different things to drive traffic? Well, I mean, yes, it's definitely affected my business. I've seen actually my social engagement go down, plenty, just probably, I don't know if it's specifically because of it

Or just because I'm posting different things now I certainly saw when I announced that I was kind of doing some crossfit stuff Yeah, I had a like a mass exodus of fans and different things and that's fine but I haven't really positioned myself in the last year or so as like more of a fitness person I got programs I kind of just leave them out there and you know whoever comes and finds me because of my content That's already living in in internet land, you land, there's something that they can go by. I am repositioning myself and will emerge more

as that fitness person and kind of package myself a little bit more with this new thing that's going on with Metron, but yeah, it's definitely hurt. You know, a lot of people, because our show's constantly growing. And the last time we had you on, has it been a year? Has it been about a year or last that we've had on the has it been a year? Has it been about a year or less

that we've had in the show? I think so, yeah. Some are. A lot of people don't know that when we originally started Mind Pump, you were one of the other hosts. It was actually four hosts. So obviously, if you listen to our show now,

you got me, Adam, and Justin on. But when we first started Mind Pump originally, it was with Craig as well. So we started like that, and then we never aired any of those original episodes, and maybe we will one day, we'll use his blackmail or something like that, but a lot of people don't know,

because we never really went through and talked about why it transitioned, why it changed from there. I don't know if you wanna talk about what happened at that time, or? Sure. Well, if you're to talk about what happened at that time or? Sure. Well, if you're an OG Mind Pump Listener,

you probably saw the transition of these guys. I mean, they keep it pretty straight. I can't say I listened to all their latest shows. These guys put out content left and right, and I just don't have the time to do so with my schedule. But they've been, I like listening to the show. The show is very enjoyable. But the show, it's very enjoyable, but early on we were very like Howard Stern meets,

you know, the podcast world and fitness world. And so originally I thought that the content that we were putting out was a little bit racing. It was too much for what I think I was trying to accomplish at the time. I was doing interviews with a lot of ECs. I was trying to get funding for my company. And I kind of had thought that, you know,

it might position me personally in a bad way. You know, while I was trying to go raise money, raise seed funds and different things for a metron. So that was one issue. I kind of thought four was a crowd, you know, when it came down to it because if we started, it was just us four having conversations

and then you bring another fifth or sixth person on, it's really hard to get it You know word and sometimes then I think we were all fighting for airtime and fine to find our own personalities in the beginning too so You know, I'll admit that you know, I just felt myself. I was like man Am I gonna be positioned correctly on the show and it could have been my own insecurities or maybe just other things that I had priority with These guys also have fitness information products, you know, they're releasing great products

and different things. And I also had mine. I don't think that that was ever the issue. There would have been obviously a merges at some point and I would have contributed to the process as well. I think we all have, you know, great things that we offer. Some of us have strengths in different places.

Now back then, you had the largest, out of all of us, you had the largest social media following. I didn't have one at all. I don't even think I had an Instagram when we first started. And you had, so you had the largest, out of all of us, yet the largest social media following, I didn't have one at all. I don't even think I had an Instagram when we first started. And you had that, and you were the only sponsored. You were sponsored. You were sponsored at the time by I think with Soe Core and BodyBuilding.com at the time. And I mean, rightly, a lot of people might not know this.

If you go back and listen to our old episodes, first of all, they're terrible. But we were really raw. Like we would say and talk about anything. And probably a little bit of fear, right? Like, oh, my sponsor's gonna draw that. I thought I had the most to lose for sure. Yeah.

You know, I have a good contract with Say You Query. Oh, you did, you definitely did. There's not you think you did. You definitely were, we weren't tied to anything. We all had different businesses. Right, had nothing to do. So. I mean, one of the shows was talking about, uh, this guy's taint, wasn't it?

Yeah. Sportscourtly. Sportscourtly taint. Yeah. Is Adam Adams got a clean one? So, still burned in my head. And so, I don't know. I just felt at the time that, you know, I just had a lot going on and, you know, I didn't

know if I was going to be forever. And obviously, it is that way for now. But I knew that we would talk, we would have conversations and figure out where that might lead me. But at the time I chose. And obviously whether it's right or wrong, I don't know. And you guys are obviously doing really well.

So you guys all for continuing the path. Oh, I appreciate it. Now you know we love you, obviously, we're all still very close with nothing but respect. You didn't lead, you left with integrity. So like, I'm not like you like you were a jerk about anything. But looking back now, you've gone off and done lots of other things.

And we've said this many times, and I believe to this day, we still say this, you have to be one of the hardest working people in fitness that we know. I mean, you do so many things, you do a lot of things on your own, you're an absolute machine. Was there ever a moment after that? Because after you left and we started the podcast and it really started taking off and everything

started growing, were you ever in a position where you look back and like, shit, I wonder if I made the right decision? Like, did you ever have to struggle with anything like that? My wife gives me all the time, she feels like, my life is really funny, I say yes to just about everything. You know, I'm one of those people that will walk through the door, not knowing if there's a friggin step on the other side that I'm gonna fall off the cliff. So I say yes to about everything, but I've missed a few opportunities that kind of seem like they've been big. You guys have

obviously one of those big opportunities and my wife will bring it up to me. And when there's other opportunities, she's like, make sure you, you know, she like pushes me to continue to follow through and don't pull the plug in. I've looked back and I, you know, I don't, I don't have remorse for my decisions, but I certainly could sit there and say, well, I wonder how my life would be if I was in this situation or that situation. So, yeah, there's no remorse. I think everything what we do in life is a learning experience. And certainly if you don't take it that way, then you're going to have a lot of, you're going to have a lot of self-esteem issues and different things. So if you don't take everything that you do and the reasons why you're doing and learn

from what you did, you're going to have issues anyway. So. Well, now, on that point, you mentioned like possibly that, you know, it might have been some of your insecurities and stuff like that that made you do that. Is that something that you reflected on and have you grown since then? Or is it you say, you know, I agree with you that everything happens for a reason, and was there major growth or learning experiences because of that that you had?

Well, I think one thing that I picked up from, I was probably in a funny and invulnerable position when I was out here, right? I didn't have family. My wife came out here, I left trading on Wall Street at the time. I had sponsors that were going in and out. I'm not sure if I was in the position

where I actually lost my sponsors, so you core for that, like a few months, that was not sponsored actually for like a period of like six months. I forget where I was in that whole timeline with you guys, but I think I was just putting so much value and emphasis on Metro and the time to grow that. And I really wasn't pushing my own brand, CRECAPER, so obviously I was very popular at one point.

I've kind of obviously took a nose die, but I was okay because I was putting my business to the things first. So I don't know, have I personally grown? I feel like I certainly have, especially with my daughter because now everything's a priority. I have more faith in my life at this point. I moved to Tennessee and there's a strong population there that believes in faith and I've read the Bible a few times and believe a little bit more

about that where I was lost. I've certainly had a spiritual, a mental growth, and physical and family growth, but as far as business and different things, I still try to keep myself open-minded. I try not to look back at the decisions that did or did not happen, but I try to learn from all. I was spoken like a man with integrity. You continue, every time I talk to you, I was like, God damn, I like that guy.

And I appreciate it. And I think you're right, I think everything does happen for a reason. Let's talk about your move now. You live in Tennessee, different place in here. You talked about your faith. What's it like? Over there, you have gone through a bit of a transition.

You said your popularity went down, but it seems to me like your engagement went up at the same time. So, you know, it's not necessarily, we always talk about the social media. It's not just, it's not really the number of people that follow you. It's the quality of people. Yeah. And are you really impacting them? Is that an accurate thing that I'm saying?

Is it changed in other words in that way? Um, I, well, I think total, if you're talking about just social statistics, and we're talking about engagement and how many people come in on my posts and different things and interactions, then I think it's still it's down. However, I feel like I'm impacting more people the right way today than I was. Before, under my current path, and just give you a quick background history on me, I'm 37 years old, 37 years old in a couple of weeks, actually, in 36 right now.

Oh, it's a good idea. Thank you. I'm an IFB-PRO Physique competitor and did one of the classic Physique shows the very first one that they had. And so I had some notoriety from that. I'm an X-BodyBuild.com spokesperson model. And so I had some popularity from that

and I put out multiple training programs on bodybuilding.com and so you're in these other places. So I've had some online popularity, but I do believe I've always positioned myself as somewhat different and not always about the aesthetics. There is more to me. However, I'm certainly screaming that message now

more than ever. And I'm glad that I'm getting people that are resonating with that. I think the people that left my channel were looking only for aesthetics and only for certain things that are very shallow. and I'm happy not to speak to those people. I wish they were there so they could start seeing my message today so I could educate them, and I have so many direct messages that people get with me.

And I get back to them all. I try to just give and give and give and give, just kind of like you guys did in the beginning, is if you could just continue to influence one person, where does that go? I have stacks of testimonials that I'm only, I'm gonna deploy at some point, but it just feels really good to impact people. And so I think that the job that we're all doing in this world is providing some informative content,

providing the motivation, and just getting people to move and be educated about fitness and health and all the things that can impact people. I feel like right now you're portraying more of your authentic self. I don't think I was not authentic before, but now I just know my message is more honed in.

I think that's a better way to say it because I was certainly putting selfies out there and I don't believe that's the right correct message. It wasn't that I was authentic with it. I just believe that if I continue to do that, it's very about me. If I make it about the movement or make it about the exercise or make it about something that I'm doing, then I, it's more about we.

A bigger cause. Yeah, it's cool. It's been cool to watch your transition when, like, the videos, if you go way back on what's your Instagram page Craig for the listener. That my name Craig first. Okay, if you go back on his Instagram, you can see the transition where you were learning some of these new exercises, which they weren't necessarily new to you. You're an athlete, you've had a long history of athletics, but you hadn't done them for a long time in your training. Things like, you know, cleans and snatches and all these other, you know, quote unquote,

functional movements, you had been bodybuilding for so long. And it's been really cool to watch you just be relentless with your training, because it's, look, here's a deal, you train your body, your body adapts in very specific ways. Because you'd been bodybuilding for so long, your body got really good at the slow grinding, compound lift type strength, squatting 500 pounds and bench pressing and rows and deadlifts. Now, then you started to do these cleans and stuff and you could see, it took a while, right?

It took a while. What was that learning curve life to go from what you were doing to now moving into this more functional space? It's still not there. And I think the coolest part about fitness and functional fitness is that you can always improve. There's always a time threshold or some kind of movement pattern that you can get better at.

But I had such a mobility problem and I still struggle with it. My front rack position is not where it needs to be. I have some o'cronic pain in some of the areas that I've been pushing my mobility in, and I'm probably causing most of this pain from the, I'm not one of those people that feel pain stop because it's like, oh, that's pain,

that's my body telling me to stop. So football mentality. I will push pain to you. And do you guys, you guys saw, or yeah, I think you saw, that I had blood clots in my leg at one point over the last year. No, tell me about that.

So I was doing a Ramwad, one of these mobility exercise apps, and I was put in a pose that's called, I think it's Vinyasa or the hero pose. Doug, maybe you could clarify it for me. I think it's called hero pose, but I was sitting in this like three minute pose where I was kind of like sitting on my shins, my knees are obviously forward, and I was kind of bending backwards.

And I believe that I gave myself blood clots, kind of basically stopped the blood from flowing through those veins. And whatever the reason is, it hit backfire on me. And I had like a calf cramp for like two weeks straight. And basically, I thought it was just a calf, I thought it was, yeah, I thought it was a calf cramp and I couldn't shake it and I was icing it and I was putting it. So was it swollen? It got, it got, it started getting swollen, it started getting very hot and and so finally

I'm like, man, I'm going to have to go to the doctor. Usually it's, I'm a, I'm a two week pain until I go to the doctor. Like I don't go right away. I'll, if it's two weeks or longer, that's usually my sense to get to the doctor. And so I finally went and the guy was like, hey guy, go to the, you need an ultrasound. We got to figure out what's going on here. This doesn't seem to be normal. They brought me in there and they're like, do you have four blood clots in your, your thing? Go to the emergency room.

Oh, shit. And so the only thing that I could think of was this pose that I did that would have caused that because I was not an airplane or anything else. And so I hurt myself trying to get better. So that was a good setback that cost me like two to three months in my training. How did they treat it? What did they do? Put me on, you know, blood thinners, but it's not really blood thinners. It's anti-coagulants, right? So we basically, you're not clotting. So we're not trying to, you know, build a, you know, or get a clot. So therefore your inflammation get, you know, if it was over to break apart, that can go to your lungs and you have a embolism, and so it was pretty big deal.

And I believe, Kaelin von Moger had that too when he had his problem too. So I kind of reached out to him and told him, put some compression sleeves on. So there was a whole process with that. But just the learning experience to go back to the original question was, man, I was putting myself in these positions

because I took a lackluster approach to my training for so long. Just because you're training for strength and different things, you gotta continue to produce yourself as a functional person in movement. Like, if you look at a bodybuilder today, they're just this big hulk and they can't move, they can't scratch their back.

Like, I can tell you I can scratch my back now, there was a time I could not. And so I'm having such a better time at life because I'm able to move better. And just because I looked potentially better before is debatable, but bigger is not better. And I was always an idiot in thinking that the same mentality.

So. Did you think to yourself like, okay, obviously you're doing a different type of training, but your mentality is still go through the wall, keep going, don't listen to signals. Are you at this point now saying yourself, like, okay, maybe I need to like pay attention to the signals my body's saying,

or maybe I need to just slow down, especially when you're working on mobility and function stuff. Like you push through that and you hurt yourself. Yeah, you can't muscle your way through that. When you're doing the movements, like over a lot of the overhead stuff, overhead squats, snatches, different things, there's, you know, you're using momentum, ballistic type of

efforts and you gotta be very careful. So you have to slow yourself down. And if, you know, one thing, I have a big problem with some of these, I have a big problem with fucking internet right now. The whole internet. That's a lot of things. With all these guys doing these crazy things just for attention and likes. Like, why?

Yeah. There's so many guys, and I'm sure you've interviewed some of these clowns, but stop. with all these guys doing these crazy things just for attention and likes. Like, why? There's so many guys, and I'm sure you've interviewed some of these clowns, but stop. You're teaching these kids all these wrong moves, and it's just for attention. And it's like, there's this one guy that I look up to or he's just a stud,

and he's like, this Olympic, I'm not gonna give him his shout right now, but he's doing all these silly things, and I'm just like, man, you are having other people emulate these movements and you're going to get someone hurt. I am waiting for someone to severely hurt themselves and it's gonna go viral.

And so it may be already has happened, but there is gonna be a big injury in this small circle that we're in very, very soon, because people are trying to do things for likes. Do you think people in our space have a responsibility to making sure that the people that follow them don't do crazy things and hurt themselves? Because you do, I see that all the time.

I see people squatting on freaking, you know, uh, hoverboards and, you know, and doing crazy shit like, do you think that we have a responsibility of fitness professionals or do you think, just do what you're going to do and if people follow you, that's on them? I do think you have a responsibility, but I mean, that's just me as a person. I mean, if we get into the real world, I mean, there's, you had like, what's the Jersey Shore and all these other things

that were just about likes and different things. That's a great chore, by the way. I haven't watched the new one. I'm just thinking like, I do think if you call yourself a fitness professional, then you should have a responsibility. If you're gonna be putting out content that's informative in any nature, then you call out, fitness professional, then you should have a responsibility. If you're gonna be putting out content

that's informative in any nature, then you call out, look, I'm just messing around or you put a disclaimer on it or some way somehow that you're at least letting them know. But I just think, I guess if you're getting paid for the likes and the shares and the millions of followers that you have, it's tough to say, I'm just gonna be normal like everyone else

because then you're gonna lose your followers. So it's a tough balancing act, but I just think if you're gonna call yourself a professional, act like a professional and that stuff you're joking around. Yeah, have you ever thought about getting back into the podcast space? Because I know you, I mean, and I know you're doing a lot of shit. You're, you're one of the busiest, like I said, hardest working people. I know in fitness, but you ever think about getting back into

that space where you can talk and express yourself kind of like you're doing now. Daily, really? I think, I think, daily actually. Just had a conversation with one of our advisors for Metron. He's a chief physiologist and he's a guy at Pepperdine, a university professor there. And he just, we had our meeting, monthly meeting, and he was talking about just some of the misinformation

that's out there of some of these well published professors and different people, monthly meeting, and he was talking about just some of the misinformation that's out there of some of these well-published professors and different people, not professors, but fitness personalities that are unlike the New York Times and putting out finished publications and he's like, I'm quite sick of this information. And so, I was actually talking to him about doing some segments together and different things, but my only question with this is, you guys, this is what you guys do, right? And so, if I was going to get into that realm, it's going to be a shift of, you know, priority. And it's, I don't know that I can keep up with the demand if I was going to go down that path. That's the only thing I, I'm trying to learn and something that I've learned in my life is what you guys say.

It's, it's not always a good thing when you say, hey, you got 20 things going on. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a good thing when you say you're doing one thing severely well, right? Two wires in the fire. And so I just think that if I'm going to go down that row, I want to make sure that I have a clean schedule and I can provide the information from the form of content on a daily and weekly basis that ever I provide my content. And it's not boring and repetitive. Yeah, we just had, you know, and I agree with you 100%. I think if you were to do it, you could start slow and like do one episode a week or something like that and just be consistent with it. But even that requires a more work than you would think. We just had an event, we had a podcast, a hard event, with other podcasters who

got on each other's show, helped grow their audience. It was sponsored by like Skinny Dip, which is the almonds that we were just eating right now, and everybody loved by the way. And the thing that we like about the podcast space is if you have a lot of information and things you want to share, if you want to really impact people with the knowledge that you have, it's such a great medium. And I think it's probably, I know it's one of the number one converting platforms for business, probably because you are making that kind of an impact. You know what I mean? Like, if I do that kind of a connection,

is what's going on. Yeah, like, you know, someone listens to you for, you know, 40 minutes or an hour, an hour and a half, and you're being sincere and you know what you're talking about, the odds that you're gonna get them to change something about their behaviors is much higher than other forms of social media where it tends to be like a three-minute video or something like that.

You find these podcasts, we talk to these podcasts and we know what we do. We'll have an episode that will get 40 or 50,000 downloads on its own and that thing will convert better than a million views on YouTube or something like that. It's a pretty cool, it's a really interesting space and I've been following along, are you familiar with the Intellectual Dark Web? Have you heard of this term? So this is a term that they're using right now to kind of describe this movement in new media and it's represented by people like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris

and who else is our Shapiro. People who don't agree ideologically on the same ideologies, but they all are taking part of this kind of new media where this long form communication is really starting to take off. Whereas before it was a five minute clip on TV and it was all sound bites and nothing really informative. It was just who could say the coolest thing or get the zingers. And now all of a sudden, people are tuning in

by the tens of millions to a three hour podcast that Joe Rogan may have, for example. In the past, nobody would have ever thought that was possible. And then you have things like Netflix which this didn't exist before. Like if you wanted to make a movie based on a book, it was very difficult because you were limited by like,

you know, two hours. Okay, how do we take this book of all this information and turn it into a two hour movie? And so movies never really captured the impact that book's at least. We see this already with HBO just bought the rights to Lord of the Rings. And so they're gonna take it in long form and really be able to highlight all the details

you get from a story like that. But yeah, it is. There's a lot more interest in the long form. Yeah, and Netflix proved that model, right? People now will watch 15 part series, you know, an hour each in like three days. They'll just consume this. I've done that. Yeah, and so it's a very interesting space and podcasting is obviously 15 part series, you know, an hour each in like three days. They'll just consume this. I've done that.

Yeah. And so it's a very interesting space and podcasting is, obviously, that's the space that we appreciate the most. But I think it just makes up a part of that, you know? I'm definitely going to do it. It's going to be a matter of when the priority hits the table. You know, I feel like I have a lot of things that I say. But I'm more interested

in something that's, you know, I've got good at listening to others and kind of just listening to them. I hate, and not saying that you guys do this all the time, but I do hate when podcasters come with the the the Thor thunder and be like, this is it. This is it. This is basically the message instead of actually saying, hey, let me take a listen. I may not be the podcast expert on this. I may be just not the subject matter expert here. I'm going to bring some people in and we're going to learn. So my reason for doing a podcast is not so much that I want to provide the information.

I want to get some good listeners in. I want to learn with some people and become a listener with them and explore and ask the right questions on the show and not come off as an authority figure. And I understand that it might be a little bit challenging because they're going to tune into you because they think you have someone and you have something to say. So there's like a probably a little well middle ground there, but I do want personally to go on to like this quest because I'm always about reading books. I mean, I know you post about reading books all the time.

I'm always about self-help and leveraging other people's time and effort and I kind of want to go on the journey just to go ahead and explore what's out there. And so I know you guys had probably an amazing experience. Since I have not been on the show of just listening great minds and different things. So it's probably just super enlightening. No, I think that's our favorite part. And there's, I mean, there's different styles, right? I mean, there's no rules to this game, which is what I really like.

We were just talking to the day with somebody who we had in here as an interview with incredible conversation. And we were actually talking about Joe Rogan. And you know, Joe Rogan, 100% relies on the guests that he's interviewing. And most people that tune into his show will listen, or you know, if you listen to any of his long form shows, you listen because, you know, Elon Musk was on there and you want to hear him. I'm a fan of Elon I want to hear him talk. You know, one of the things that we did unique was we did build the business originally just kind of around us and our personalities.

So we have kind of a 50-50 type of an audience. We definitely have the new people that drop in like we just did a couple of months ago. We did Bishop Baron. Bishop Baron has a huge following and they're totally different than us and we had a huge download on those episodes, but because of his audience coming over,

but then we have like our solid foundation. So I think what we do is unique and isn't the same as everybody else. So I think you could do either one. I think you could make a podcast that's purely around interviewing and talking to people. And then you could be one that is you talking and helping and explaining to people

or a blend of that. And I think we were kind of a blend of that. I think it's kind of the secret sauce of MindPomp is, we actually have a core group in audience of people that tune in three days a week just to hear us talk and bullshit, and then we have another core audience of people that wanna hear us interview really intelligent people.

The other thing too is you're not, you don't come across as a know-it-all, I know everything, you're genuine and so I think if you present yourself that way, you can be wrong sometimes, or you could say I don't know and people will I think respect that more than the, I know everything, I learned that as a personal trainer, I was talking like two years to learn that where clients would ask me a question and I'd always have to have the answer and then I remember remember thinking to myself, like, well, why don't I just say I don't know, but I'll find out. And I started doing that way more powerful.

Like, I got way more respect for my clients. And it was easier, of course, to not have to lie and say, oh, that's your meniscus. You know what I'm saying? Has nothing to do with that. So tell us a little bit about Metro. What's up with Metro right now? Where are you in Fakes? You've been working with that for such a while.

What's the trend? Are you making any transitions in it with it right now? Well, we're doing a big pivot. For the longest time, and I've told you guys multiple times over the course that we were always heading to this end trajectory, and I think we're here. We'll probably launch our new website this week. Hopefully, what are you going to air this episode?

Oh, probably. Oh, today. Oh, we're gonna air this episode. Oh, probably. Oh, today. Oh, really? Boom. On it. We are on it. You can have to give me some time to get this thing. We're transitioning from, you know, where there's the same,

the bodybuilding.com, all access model, where you buy a metron premium and have a basket of coaches to, you know, have choice from. So that's where you pay one fee, access to everything. Right, but we're changing that in a sense that we're going to go from B to C to B to B. And so now we're going after people like yourself or anyone who has information products, eBooks or anything where you have a website where someone's paying to access your training information. We want to provide you the software technology to basically present that information in a sophisticated way, allowing data to basically enhance user results, you know, getting some things of that nature,

provide this beautiful customer experiences through apps and different things. So we are, we're an iOS and beta app development right now. We'll probably by the end of the year be on the app store for our download for iOS, Android's a little bit lagging, but we have this crazy the US, Android's a little bit lagging, but we have this crazy backend structure that's allowing us to provide different variables to personalize specific exercises like bench press. A coach doesn't just say four sets of 10. A coach now has to be sophisticated enough to say, I want that specific exercise to be at 80% either of a 10 rep max or one rep, one or RM at like 75%.

So we're asking our coaches to go a little bit further than just say, hey, this is a general range, so we can give someone some further direction. I mean, nothing's more complicated when you go to the gym and you get download an ebook and you're like, what's the intent of this exercise? One of my specifically supposed to be doing. And so there's a lot of great area

that I think could be eliminated and then allowing the data to help personalize this experience for them. So that's one part of it. But further on, allowing people to create a subscription model, you coaches, we want to enhance you as a subscription. Instead of just doing one-time downloads and saying, Hey, I got to reinvent the wheel every time I want to have a new marketing message.

Why you should buy this book? You guys have really so many books this year? Oh, God. Just this year, four. Four, four, half. So why wouldn't you guys consider releasing a subscription model where they get access to everything that you continue to do and they're going to keep paying for your subscription. So you're going to have a fan base that's going to, you're going to have a converting cycle

on a subscription. Everyone's doing subscription. Netflix works for this reason. Yeah, we've talked about it. So you continue to offer that. But don't just offer behind a paid website because then you're just going to be an information monkey just like you guys are here. You're going to continue to have to provide content over and over. Instead of focusing on just providing good books, good training platforms,

getting other people to come in. So our whole model at this point is to say we have this product called a virtual trainer. And so it's basically an ebook that's basically using technology to personalize its events, okay? And so you drop these into this basket of subscription and you just continue to offer them and continue to pop them out or just tweak the ones that you have because now you get to see the data back and find out, hey, did I personalize this properly? Is 80% the right range here?

If you're starting to look at your user data, you can start finding out, hey, maybe everyone's training is 75% on this load and you can change it. So one of the things, one of the biggest challenges with training, and just, this is something, hey, maybe everyone's training is 75% on this load and you can change it. So one of the biggest challenges with training, and this is something, again, this is something I took me a long time to learn, and I know Adam and Justin could echo this, because we train people for so long. One of the biggest mistakes I think I made early on

was I overcomplicated things with clients, and it made it so much more difficult to really make those fundamental changes. It took me a long time to realize that if I simplified and focused on the most impactful, but simple things, and deliver, because here's the thing, the information that you deliver is important, but how you deliver that information is just as important.

And so early on when a client would come to me, my favorite thing to do is like, here's your meal plan, here's your workouts, here's what we're going to do with your cardio, here's what we're going to do with the stretching. And it was never the long term success of that was always bad. It got much better when they would come in and that would say things like, okay, you know, this week we're going to work, you know, we're going to work out one thing. There's a little overwhelming. Yeah. And if you guys address that at all in your UI and the experience, I know like

in the beginning it was all about like really robust as far as like Numbers were concerned and all that yeah, which we've learned a lot, right? So I mean we've learned a lot from our coaches and why we're doing this software model instead of a business consumer models Because people felt that we were a threat to them People didn't want to put a program inside of a basket with others So that was the fun. That was one of the biggest challenges I was gonna go out of a speed bumps from coaches been like of speed bumps from coaches and I'm kinda this coach over here. So we're saying, you know what,

we're just gonna be like Google suite. We're just gonna offer this training software. Interesting. Provide yourself. We're gonna enhance you as a technology partner. What do you need? We're gonna make it happen for you. So we have cool business tools like referrals,

affiliate programs. So every user who signs up under one of your training programs has a unique referral code inside their program where you can incentivize them to offer free trials or coupons to other people. And so you can have, you know, use a power of sales. We have affiliate programs where people could just straight sell for you. And so we're building all that under one roof. And so there's, you know, as I was an ebook author before, there was so many of these programs that you had to download. So you got like four different programs working under one, you know, potential sales marketing strategy. We're trying to combine that whole process. So to your answer, Justin, yes, we're listening to everyone. We're trying to simplify the process and just just make it easier. I understand

what you're saying as well, Sal, that simple is easy. But sometimes training, you know, gets a little complicated for a coach and providing the user the simple stuff. Maybe the coaching side's a little bit more complicated. Like two separate. Yeah, so three points. Yeah, so right now you obviously can do a lot with the back end as a coach and the software with it, but presenting it to the users, very simple. You just basically hit a program,

and it's all that are done for you. Now, it seems like you would have to have a lot of coaches going through you guys to make the business really successful. Do you know how many people you guys need? How many actual coaches with programs for this business to be really rocking in Rome? To break even, it's not as big as you think. There's a specific model that we're going to do. We're going to be a revenue share model on one.

We actually have one-on-one coaches if we want to or calendar-based coaching so you could do event prep and different things like that. So challenges, I see diet bets. We have all those software, we have all those entry points. We're not really marketing them. We're marketing to the people that want to create a subscription business model. But yes, it's not as crazy to think.

I mean, think about the price of us person's program and if we're taking a piece of that revenue as well as that we were doing well with them We have coach on there right now making like 400 green here. Oh, that's awesome man He had he was able to quit his job. That's phenomenal So I mean if we're if we're able to help these people do these things, you know what we're doing is just creating a better system of people to You know get get the information that they require and the cool thing thing is this, and why I think we're going to grow at some point, and we haven't really marketed it.

Obviously, I just told you, we just were doing this business model today. Doug is going to make me publish my new website today. But the cool part about it is if we unify the UI and the experience, then everyone's using Facebook, right? Everyone's using Google Suite, and they're getting used to those tools. If you guys provide an ebook or a five-providing ebook or someone else provides an ebook, it's three different user experiences.

So if everybody's on the same user experience, then the user has all their information in one place, all their performances in one place. If they go into my program, go into your program, or go into your program, then all their data is gonna interact with the way you presented it to them. And so no longer do they have to even baseline test anything, then all their data is going to interact with the way you presented it to them. And so no longer do they have to even baseline test anything, then all the information

just populates. And so it's kind of a unified effort. So when someone does come on here, they would potentially be looking for other people if they're bored of your programs, they're going to want another coach that's in Metron because then they already are familiar with the UI. They're going to be able to get all their information that's already going to talk to the other guys program and just have this great user experience.

So it's kinda like this boon big effort. That's how big is your team now? I know you're on there, you had a partner a while ago, I don't know if you're working with the same guy, you have a pretty large team now that's helping you with all this? We're like 15. Okay, good to get.

We had a few QA engineers didn't work out for us where we were, but actually it's true. Not true, we're probably closer to 20 because we have this full China effort going on right now as well I was gonna ask you about yeah over in China like you guys efforts there like it What have you seen as potential like benefits or? Determits in that market that's a loaded question Justin We've raised now close about two million dollars and invested that in R&D So I mean when just just from a standpoint of when from a standpoint of when you have a PDF ebook and I'm not saying anything

wrong with you guys or anyone else who even gonna put a nap out there, but let me just compare the sophistication of a product like Metro Unversed, someone else who's just gonna say, come join my app. It's usually just a push. They're basically gonna have information, they're just gonna push it and you're gonna be able to interpret how you want. If you don't have a backend engineering effort, then you can't get the information that we're talking about, personalizing different variables.

But the China effort was able to allow us to get to these positions. We have I think five or six members over there right now in an office in where we were in a shoot. Why can't I think this? I'll come back to that. Beijing? No, I've actually, what happened with the wearable idea? Did you guys ditch that?

I did. You did. I could watch that whole thing. We're not a wearable company. Smart. Yeah, that was a smart move. Yeah, we put a good effort into what happened? Is that fell in our lap? Somebody in China actually, a picture to you. Kind of, kind of basically was trying to get bought. They were trying to get their, their ideas and their, their software bought. And so we said, okay, we said, what did you say, Mike Tyson? We said, you know, what, let's use the effort to somebody else and try to obviously see if we could leverage

it. And then just looking at the time and effort and just the conversations I've had, I actually talked to Amazon Alexa or those guys, I talked to their partner, it's called sensory, and I had a conversation with some big wig in that company and just looking at the amount of complexity that we would have to rearrange our efforts or engineering efforts. It's like ideas are great, executions and other things, and then actually where does it fit into the priorities. So, it was just way outside of our scope, we would have took a long time. There's already so many partners that we could just basically, you know, send APIs to and just

Collaborate on that method. So why didn't we invent the wheel? It's new something we're not we're not Abing inclusive. Yes, so I just said let's focus on the software. Let's get that out and let's polish that experience And if we can grow in the future and we have such a big backing, then we'll take that then smart Now you've been doing this for for several years now is there Hangzhou by the way? Hangzhou. Is there is there a point? Are you beyond this point? I guess I should ask of, you know, hey, if it doesn't take off this much or we don't make X amount by

this year that I'm going to walk away from this or you beyond that that you're committed no matter what. I'm probably committed no matter what. I think I was at that point about a year and a half to two years ago before we got our big, you know, big seed investment from, you know, some angels in China. I was close to Poland, you know, and I mean, like, we invest everything. I, you know, I had a strong career on Wall Street and spent right through that money just, you know, helping our team team grow, just spending it. And there was like a year that I wasn't getting anything more than just paying myself through my savings.

So maybe even two years actually, before we started paying ourselves from Metro, just putting our own monies into the company. So I'm pretty sure I'm beyond that at this point. We're very vested in, I believe in the product and look, if we're not making money at some point then we're not going to be able to feed our team. So I think it's not going to be a choice of, am I going to walk away? I think it's going to be a choice of if we can't pay our team then we can then it's not because now it's not just me and my partner anymore. Now it's we have a full team that we have to. Well, I talk about this with our business even all the time. I tell the boys like, you know, as we continue to scale and add more staff and it grows and it's like

I tell the boys, as we continue to scale and add more staff and it grows. It's all exciting and everything. But with that comes a lot of stress, a lot of pressure. Now you have 10 more mouths of the feed besides your own. That will be faced with this decision, which will be, hey, do we want to keep growing this thing? Do we still have dreams for it to be a $50 or $100 million company and do we want to keep pushing? Or do we want to just cut out all these people, focus on a few things that we

love doing in it and just, you know, put some good money in our pocket and call it a day? Is that, I mean, is that a possibility in this? Or is this like it's, it's, it's, do or but it's like all the way or bust? No, I believe our product is going to be something very successful in the future. You know, I do believe that we will be a household name. Just to, I strongly believe that what we're offering the market can't be done today. I don't think there's a competitive product that does

specifically the one vertical that we have. When I'm one in calendar, there's plenty of companies that can do that. The virtual training product, people would have to spend some time and resources and dollars to catch up. So I'm pretty confident if we can get our marketing message proper, if I can say what I need

to say, what I need to say, that we'll at least get the people that want to come in and inquire, you know, hey, what do you got going on? So I certainly think after a couple demos and showing people and getting the right words out of my mouth and saying what we got, we'll catch on pretty quickly. So I 100% believe that we're going to go somewhere some way. So I don't think that's a possibility. How big, how fast, and how many team members do we need? I don't know.

Our burn rates pretty extraordinary without any marketing dollars spent at this point. But it is what it is. It's so awesome. Are you guys still building in terms of being the standalone company in this market versus maybe an Apple or a Google or somebody like, you know, sort of building it in terms of getting their attention to then, you know,

a choir. No, I don't feel like we'll be acquired. Yeah, that's not my intention. I think, and who's, and you never know, obviously, dollars talk sometimes. And if someone comes through with a bigger effort, a bigger team, and can convince me that their efforts, their dollars, their engineering staff can help get our message out and what we're trying to do, certainly then. But at this intention, I would say, you know, the goal is to obviously get in the black,

you know, make money feed our team and not have to rely on any seed income at this point. And that's their first goal. And then we'll take it from there. I think it's too, I think it's, I've learned enough that I don't wanna look to the future. I'm gonna look to the now, be present in what I'm currently doing and just execute.

Mm-hmm. Have you, over this time, have you refined your, your elevator pitch? I mean, I feel like when we first started talking about this, one of the things that I had a really hard time with is, it just sounds complex, right? And I can kinda get it as a, as a trainer and been doing this for a really hard time with is it just sounds complex, right? And I can kind of get it as a trainer and been doing this for a very long time

so I can see the value in it. But when I think of other people, you know, I don't know if it goes over a lot of people's head, have you had to refine that and change how you present it? Let's try it. Do it. But we got a great platform to talk about it. We're on San Hill Road.

Yeah. And Echrona is an all in one coaching suite that uses data to enhance customer experiences. I mean, that's pretty much what we're doing. You practiced. Yeah. It's actually the headlight. Much more distilled. That's awesome.

Now, not to change gears on you, but you've been in fitness in the fitness business for quite a long time. You're obviously, as people can hear, an intelligent, very intelligent person. And since we started Mind Pump, there's already been lots of shifts in the industry. Like I remember, when we first started the podcast, it was very hard, for example,

to find organic supplements, like organic protein, or organic pre-workout. It was a very, very small market. pre-workout. It was a very very small market. Yeah, it was it was a very, do you remember that? It was a very very small market. Are you gonna make Craig do our organic? I commercial it. Not at all. Not at all. Actually, that's one of the reasons why we worked with organic. But I but I watched there was a couple videos I watched of yours going grocery shopping and you're filling your grocery baskets all organic food organic chicken or you didn't do that before.

You live in the learn guys. You have a kid now. You get older and you learn that you have inflammation and you have these chronic pains and different things and you're gonna learn that food is gonna be the healing source of your body. And supplements are gonna do that. And let me just say, I am sponsored by

a Cellucore, Savation, Nutri-Bolt, the whole nine and I do take their products however, I don't boast about taking supplements just for the sake of taking supplements. Supplements need to be taken when you're lacking something. By the definition of the word, you take a supplement when you're lacking some part of that supplement. So, yes, there's gonna be positive supplements

that are gonna have organic ingredients in them, and there's certainly gonna be ones that have artificial sweeteners, et cetera. And I'm very happy to be on a team that's thinking through those things. And so not to give anything away, but we're thinking through those things. They've been saying that way back when they came after us, where are they at with that? I know they did the fit joy bars that direction. And right, didn't they get away from some of the artificial stuff that was in there? Like, I know.

Syvation, if you look at their product right now, they have a, you know, that's a branch off of that. Yeah. Syvation was actually the biggest branch, you know, amino acid company, big, big of sales. And so they brought them. So, so you core has the biggest free workout base as well as the biggest branch, you know, amino acid, you know, in sales and marketing.

So I believe that the company's heading in that, that's direction. And so hopefully in time, we'll be able to see some more of those products. They just launched their can, their celly core carbonate decan with, you know, no artificial sweeteners and things of that nature. And it's all, I'm very happy because I want to support the team and I want to be a part of that.

And I want my movement to be about healing through, you know, nutrition and different things of that nature. And so, yeah, you're speaking my language with being organic foods and different things, just because I didn't take an interest in that early on. I was not as intelligent as I needed to be and provide that certain message to people.

So, if you're listening, foods matter. Don't buy the cheap stuff if you can avoid it, just to save a few dollars because the long-term health is more important than short-term satisfaction. Do you see any trends right now that you think are going to grow in fitness? Like, when you're looking at the industry, do you see anything that's like, oh, okay, this may be something that's going to kind of take off.

Do you see anything like that right now? I just think that you're going to find, I mean, I can't mention the company, but there's just people that are being very creative in the way that they're, you know, marketing different products. They're not marketing, but creating them. And so I think you're gonna just find more companies in the supplement industry that are going to more towards the organic route,

creating things that are natural and food-based versus some kind of artificial product or some kind of something that's been manufactured, et cetera. But yeah, I think we're all gonna see a benefit to that because I think there's too many people that now have a voice that has been asking for it. And I think the market's now strong enough to see that there's data online that's going to support

what we do, no longer is it just people picketing outside it and saying no more eating meat and different things, but there's going to be back research and people enough strong enough with a big enough opinion to start influencing these decisions. So I'm happy to be a part of that. What about the franchise that we're getting ready to get into?

Another fucking iron you're trying to put in your fire. Tell me, tell me about this little side project. Oh, so I've been... This is a jam, huh? Yeah, so Rockbox Fitness is owned by my brother-in-law. My wife's step sister, he pitched me this idea seven months ago when he first started it, and I was just so busy that I said no at the time. And so I kind of missed the inception of this thing, but the concept's great.

It's basically a boot camp meets boxing meets boot camp. Boxing's obviously super trendy right now. Everyone's doing it. I'm actually two and I was an amateur. I'm not sure if you guys knew that. We did. Yeah, I watched your video. Yeah, so I've basically, you know, I've had an experience with it.

And so I just thought it was a great way to get people to be healthy, be fit. And I like the two concepts together. You know, there's plenty of companies out there that are just doing boot camp or just doing boxing. There's not many that mirror in the two. And these guys have already crushed it. So if you're guys are interested in not you guys, but the listeners, I mean, it's a strong

franchise that's growing. Feel free to talk to me about it or those guys. But I think they've only started franchising seven or eight months ago. I already have 11 or 12 of them sold. Wow. That's fast. So he started like a year ago and he's already got that many. Wow. Yeah. He was a company before called ago and he started to get that many. Wow.

He was a company before called FastFit Boxing, which just wasn't franchise. It was just his own version of it. And then he brought on a partner who was a good corporate guy, kind of knew how to finagle things. And got their messaging right and the branding looks great. And so yeah, I'll be starting one of those really soon. I've already got the construction permits

and all these things going on in the background. So trying to get up for January, probably not gonna happen, probably maybe mid-January, hopefully February, sucks because I'm gonna miss the Super Bowl fitness, January one. But you know, it's all good. It's a cool little project.

I like the business side of it. I'm not gonna do it as a owner operator. I'm gonna do it more or less as, you know, I'm kinda have a GM in there, you know, kinda oversee it. Oh, okay. I have so many things going on. I saw this as completely a business.

Yeah, I was like, did you fucking crazy? Like, I mean, this is a business, this is like if I invested in stocks, this is gonna be the same concept. I'm certain that there's gonna be people that want my classes, so I probably have a hand in few, but I won't have the hand in generally operating the business on a day-to-day basis.

I just don't have the time. Right. Well, shit, man. It's always great having you in the studio, brother. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, anything you want to ask us, we haven't got cut up on our end, you know what I mean? This is, yeah, let's go down the right.

So I listened to Stan Efforting's podcast with you guys the other day. Yeah, Stan did a good job. And I thought that was a very informative because I had such a different impression of the guy. Smart dude, right? Very much so. And I was so, I was pretty impressed.

So I wanna know who is, each one of your favorite interviews and your preconceived notion of the person after? Starting with Justin. I think one of our recent ones with Dr. Warren, I was very. I was very, I had a little bit of knowledge going into episode as far as like his message and what he was kind of putting out there, but just what he was presenting as far as like the current state of where we are as a culture and me

having two boys. It just really, it was really an impactful conversation. I don't know if you've been able to listen to episode yet, but he wrote the book, The Boy Crisis. The Boy Crisis. And just like his points, and he started out as a feminist and went through that movement from the 60s to the 70s. And so just his perspective is really balanced. It's really balanced from both ends of the spectrum. And I thought that his delivery of his message and communication of it was the best I've heard yet on the show. And we've gotten like crazy feedback so far

from that episode specifically. We just aired it a few days ago. Yeah, it's going, but that one's going viral right now. And it's, I mean, I think the climate is perfect for right now because the me-to movement. Yeah. And so we touched some, we touched some third rails in that conversation.

And I think there couldn't have been a better person to articulate that. Yeah, but I mean, he was, my preconceived sort of perception because he's an older gentleman, right? He comes in, he's, I don't know how, he's 60s or something, right? Oh, maybe older. Maybe older.

Yeah. But, you know, it's like, that was probably, like I didn't know how, and he's kind of soft-spoken, and it's not very energetic. He walked in and right away, and then razzed us. He was like, talking shit, and I was like, oh, I like this guy. You know, I thought it was going to be a real stuffy interview, and good information, but really stuffy, but like, nah, man, that was one of my favorites. Yeah. You know, we've had so many amazing guests,

but when you say pick one, well when you say pick one that really was very different from what I anticipated, the one that stands out to me is Joe Dessena. Joe Dessena. That I got everybody to be. So he's the founder of Spartan, all the Spartan races. And when he came in, he shows up.

First of all, we, and this is back when we do more prep now, OK, but back then, people would show up and we just, you know, we would just record an episode and just talk with them. So we're expecting the host of the Spartan podcast to come in, you know, for us to interview. And we thought it was just someone who hosted the podcast.

We had no idea it was the founder of this massive organization. The rules of it, a minivan, camo hat. Yeah, he's like super unassuming, you know, doesn't look like anybody, whatever. It comes in right away, he's like, hey, you mind if I plug my computer in and start doing some work? And so we're like, who's this fucking guy? He's supposed to be on a show and he's gonna do some work.

And, you know, so we're like, whatever. So he comes in, the first question I ask him, like, so how long have you, you know he comes in and the first question asks him, like, so how long have you worked for Spartan? He's like, well, since the beginning, because I own it and we're like, oh shit, you're the owner. And then he goes off and is just this thing super embarrassing.

Super amazing storyteller. Like this. It's really underestimating. Great, great storyteller. All of us were very rarely do we have a guest on the show. We were all enthralled. Yeah, we forget to talk. That was with him. He start talking and he would stop and all of us would be like, oh yeah, we need to say

something because we were just listening to what you're saying. So he's got to be, he's got to be one of those, you know, one of those. Then, you know, recently we had Flex Wheeler on the show, which that was a good interview, but really it was for me, he was one of my heroes going out because I was in a bodybuilding in the 90s And I was really when I was really getting into lifting weights So to have flex wheeler walk into my studio sit down and then I'm interviewing him It was kind of surreal, you know, I mean because I grew up like reading his workouts and shit in the magazines So that was pretty cool, too. Nice. How about you?

I've got two that come to mind right away. One of them we haven't even aired yet The one that we haven't aired yet was Michael Wood. We just had him in here and definitely was a shocker. In fact, he doesn't know this, but I was really setting up a hopefully a heated debate, especially between him and Sal. Oh, we were hoping for conflict. Yeah, we were we were I was going for conflict. And a into my mind. Right. Intelligent. Intelligent. Lille, you know, I'm saying we would never invite somebody on this, we never do that. It's completely respectful. But I, I thought that he had polarizing opinions in politics, changed to South. And so I thought, you know, this will

be really cool. We can really educate some people on some, some really touchy topics that we're not afraid to go to. I know he's not afraid to, but when we actually did the interview, we found out that this his his thoughts aligned a lot more with ours than we had anticipated. And I ended up really liking the guy. So that was a very surprising that episode should come out next week. It's Michael Wood. And then probably one of my all time favorites and still is, you know,

and I've built a really good relationship with him now is Tom Billio. He surprised me from the very first time that we met him. And one of the things that I, he's a brilliant business, I know. If you don't know who Tom Billio is, Tom Billio is one of the creators and first guys to start quest nutrition. He's now running impact theory. And you know, when you look at him social media wise, he comes off kind of like a goofy nerd a little bit and he's got a little corkiness to him for sure. But the guy's heart and his mind when it comes to business

is just above most. And I've definitely connected big time with him. He's somebody who, when I've got things going on with the business that I wanna run something by, I'll send a text message to him and He's somebody who, when I've got things going on with the business that I want to run something by, I'll send a text message to him and he's really good about getting back and something that we connect a lot on is, you know, I'm big on relationship building and, you know, try my best to stay connected with as many of these great relationships that we have.

And he's like that. And on an even grander scale because what he's doing is even bigger than what a mind bump is doing right now. So he was awesome and he tells, he's a great storyteller too. Let me ask you guys something. So you guys interviewed a lot of people and there's so many business experts and time experts and just just let's call them self proclaimed experts in the field of this, that, and the other thing. How many experts have you brought on the show that's an expert in parenting and different

things of that nature? Because when you mentioned Tom, I listened to a couple of them and I kind of got turned off by the fact that he's like, I don't even make my bed. I don't do these small little simple things that make you human. It's all about productivity and these other things and I just don't believe in that anymore. Now having a family and actually showing priority to those things that I understand we only have so many times in a day and we don't want to waste our time with people, they're going to waste our time. But there's certain things that make us human and if you just always focus on the end goal in this streamline approach to business, I think you just miss

out. Hold on, that's something that I focused on for so long that I feel like I forgot the moment. And the live life company that I created before was Live Life Full Circle, I have not lived that for the longest. And it's about just enjoying the experience in the journey where I was always looking two to three steps forward. I think that to be- You're a dad now, dude. Yeah, that had the 100%.

To be honest, I actually think, and I don't think any of us claim to be experts, but I like to think that we're the balance in all those voices. So we bring someone like a Tom Bilion and absolutely I agree with you that we actually talk about this a lot about him, even though he's a friend, like we openly will say, like that dude is burning the candle at both ends. It's only a matter of time before he shuts down.

I mean, he is Mr. Grind for sure. And none of us subscribe to that. We've been made fun of his team, no sweat, and we pride ourselves on working nine to two o'clock every day, Monday through Friday, and shit. So I really think that for our audience, we bring a lot of really brilliant, intelligent people in certain aspects of their life.

And we highlight that on the show. But then what we do is we have a really good conversation around that for our audience. And I think we we bring a pretty good balance to those types of questions because you're right. Like, you know, you talk about parenting and it's a whole in the ballgame. And it's one of the things that I have so much respect for both of these men. It was and it was a struggle for me being the guy with no kids. When we first started building this, I was like, I've never built something nine to two Monday through Friday. Like that was fucking insane to me,

but I also respect how much they value their family time and their kids, and that was as much of a priority to them as building this multi-million dollar company. And I really had to change the way I did things, and I really appreciate them building that early on, that I think that foundation for us. And so, you know, we do.

And every expert and we say this all the time too, I mean, it's very easy for me after I meet someone like that to see them out of balance in other people's life. In fact, I think, and we talk about this too, that most people that are extremely brilliant or talented or great at something tend to lack somewhere else a lot. Well, you say it all the time, your greatest strength is your greatest weakness and that, you know, that can hold true

even with like a Tom Bielieu, like he knows how to get there. He knows like this is the button he needs to constantly push to meet this insane vision, this insane goal that he has to get there. But on the other end of that is, you know, things that he has to basically know that are going to fall apart. There's certain things that he has to sacrifice. On our goals, I think that's something, I mean, truly probably why I need a podcast,

and you need to get some of these things out there, because I think the message is where I'm going with this is that we spend so much time going after something that we don't know that it's actually right now. President, I know what I mean. Of course. And there's so many times that when you get to that goal, like, speak to this atom, how did you feel after all your shows, how much preparation did it take for you to get into your shows?

And then when you got and stood on stage and then when you left the stage, how deflated were you? Well, I wouldn't say I was really deflated and that's only because of this. And when I went into the shows and these guys all knew me before that and hold on, this is not whether he won or not. It's just the amount of preparation and effort they're getting into it. And just so if you're listening or you're watching, it's about, you know, the journey from start to finish it because I get the question so many times about this, but good.

Sorry. Well, what I noticed, and definitely my peers, I saw a lot of this. In fact, another thing that inspired what we're doing right now is how much dysfunction and insecurities and this emotional issues I saw within the space and with my peers. Lucky for me, I came into it later in life, and when I approached Men's physique, I approached it with a whole different attitude than almost anybody else that I know.

And I know you were probably one of the closest to that, which is what I think really bonded us or why we connected. You were the first guy I literally had met in that space that looked at it as an opportunity to create a platform for himself to build a business. So I was never emotionally attached to any of it really like sure I was driven to be successful and to win and get better but not at the risk of how I felt about myself or anything. So I was I had a I

think I had a really good head of my shoulders leading into that. And so I don't think it affected me like I saw everybody else, but it did give me a connection to a lot of these people who I did see that, that identified with that person. And I could definitely see how, because I went in with the right attitude, I could see how one, if you did that long enough, would start to identify as that,

because there were moments in that. I mean, still to this day, I talk about one of the, my favorite moments was standing it after winning winning my pro card in USA's and just just feeling on top of the world and in the greatest shape of my life and crowds of people looking up at me. And it's just, I mean, nothing explodes the ego up more than that. And I remember feeling that moment and thinking like, whoa, I could see how addicting this can be for a lot of my peers to think, but I had to really solve a foundation. I know you're finding faith more now than you ever have in your life.

I mean, that was my foundation for all of my life. So I've had a pretty good compass, I think, when it comes to things like that, and I'm pretty self-aware. So when I feel things like that, even if I do, I think I can pull back the rounds. Yeah, when we interviewed Bishop Baron, I originally found him on, and I'm not a religious person, but I found him on YouTube, because I was watching videos on other things,

and he'll tackle like, and answer questions about, you know, pop culture or what's happening today in the news. And here's this Catholic bishop communicating in ways that I'd never heard anybody from that space communicate. And I thought this guy's fantastic. So we got him on the show and we did our interview with him. And he really spoke to purpose, which is different than a feeling.

I think people tend to chase feeling. Like, I want to feel happy. I want to feel powerful. I want to feel sexy. But really, the meaning of life is to find purpose because life, a lot of times it's fucking hard. Life is going to be hard. The thing that gets you through the hard parts is purpose.

And if you try to fill that necessity for purpose with something like money or power or sex or whatever, you're going to end up feeling a bottomless pit and you'll get to a point where things become addictive. You know, I've done this with work or I'm chasing something with work and I chase it and chase it and chase it and you never, there's no finish line. You just keep going after it and you even realize that you're miserable, that things are miserable, that you're missing out on the most important things. And so it's much more purpose driven now.

We remind ourselves all the time of why we do what we do. And of course, this is a business. Of course, you know, we grow things, we sell things, and we have people working for us. And that's what makes it possible. But at the end of the day, always, always, when we have a guest, when we're talking, when we're going to sign with a new sponsor, or we're putting a new program together, or we're making a new decision on something. It's always, what's our purpose, this reminder of ourselves of our purpose, and is this moving towards our purpose?

And so far, it's led us in the right direction, and it's also given me a fulfillment, it's totally different than anything else. It's completely different than any other business or endeavor I've ever done. And at the end of the day, look, there's always something at the end of the day, look, there's always something at the top of your priorities list.

There's always something at the top of your hierarchy. And if that is something that is this ideal of being a good human being, being a good father, communicating what's really gonna give people, really benefit people and help people, then I think you're okay. And would I trade that for a billion dollars? Absolutely.

A billion dollars means nothing without purpose. I think we're all okay with how long it may take for us to get further along with this business as long as we maintain our core values and our integrity and our message. And I think that was sort of established early on and you know the growth that people see that may seem drastic At times has been a very slow grind. That's it man. Anyway, it's okay always good talking to Craig. Yeah, man All right boys. Thank you for having me on and feel free to message me at Crackup or so I mean the social media is happy to talk to the fans or anyone else and I love you do

Boom chock up! This Quas brought to you by Organify. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health a performance-the-added edge. Try Organify totally risk-free for 60 days by going to organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. And use a coupon code MindPump for 20% off at checkout. BELL RINGS Our first question is from Trigger Nick.

Nick's been triggered. What is the best and most efficient way to reset your CNS or rest it? You know, did you pick this out? Did I pick it? Is this the question you picked? Who picks the question usually? It's the most. You know, here's the thing with the CNS.

First off, this whole CNS reset and all that stuff. Well, we're still learning a lot. Yeah, it's a tough time. It's like talking about the gut. Like you have to like tread lightly. Yeah, I think I know what they mean, right? Like your body feels fried. You're probably

have been in a sympathetic state for too long, and you wanna rest and recover so that you can come back with more strength and better performance with your next workout or performance. I think that would be a better way to address this is more from recovery and rest, not like a reset. That's like the whole detox. Well, maybe just gotta hold down control

all at the least of the words. Yeah, control all the way. That's like the whole like detox. Well, maybe just gotta hold down control. At least the word control. Control. What is it? I mean, could it be to like we're talking more, maybe they're referring more to like the circadian rhythm. That's part of it. I mean, it's okay.

See, here's the thing. This is what's difficult about your central nervous system. Everything affects it. So here's what I mean by that. Let's say, being awake. Yeah, let's say you hurt you. You work out really hard. You're like, man, I feel fried. So what I'm going to do tomorrow is I'm mean by that. Let's say, being awake. Yeah, let's say you work out really hard. You're like, man, I feel fried.

So what I'm gonna do tomorrow is I'm gonna relax and I'm gonna sit on the couch and watch the news. And there's like some stressful shit on the news. And you're sitting there, you're probably not doing a great job of resetting, if you will, or resting your CNS. Well, what about like the float tank, for instance? Let's talk about that in terms of eliminating all potential factors as far as stimulation

is concerned. That's a great point, because when you're in the float tank, there's no light. It's simulating that you're floating, so you don't get a lot of sensation in terms of the gravitational forces as much. Yeah, now the other part of it is when you're in there, what you're thinking about can also affect your CNS. But I was just gonna say, one of the best things you could possibly do is get,

go into nature and do something relaxing in nature because you don't have all the EMFs, you know, EMFs, excuse me, signals. You don't have your phone in front of you, you're maybe meditating while... You've got distractions. Yes, that is one of the best things I've ever done. I don't know about you guys, but when I go into the woods,

or I go to the beach... I know, it does. It just sounds like you're going... Either a horror movie or going to find porn. Like, there's like only two options there. When I go into the woods... Yeah. Well, I don't have the woods anywhere near me. So I don't get to grab my other house. But I, you know, I can, I noticed this a lot more so

than like, okay, so this happens occasionally training and I've shared on the show of time of overreaching and pushing too far. And when that happens, I tend to spend the next day doing more recovery type-based movements, so mobility, work, meditation, getting in the sauna, whatever. But then sometimes like you know, like you said, Sal, the things that could fry the CNS are many things. It's not just exercise. So a high stress day is probably the more common thing that I think that people don't address or think about. Sure, when you over train and you feel how sore and you're achy, that's pretty obvious

that you've fried it a little bit, right? But, you know, when I'm stressed from work is probably when I think I have to be more mindful. And so, one of the practices that I try and do is on days like that, you know, going for a nice slow walk. And that's, you know, that's shared on the show many times that's one of my favorite things to do with Katrina when I get home for work is to do that. And that really allows me to calm down. And I could feel that too.

I could feel that just kind of walking out there and being out, I don't have the woods, like self-talking about, but I do. Just being out. Yeah, you are the only one that really can probably do that on a regular basis. I do. And actually do do that on a regular basis. There's a destination. I'm always trying to kind of walk towards because it's such a beautiful epic scene. So it's it's more of just being small somewhere. You know, I feel I feel that being therapeutic in a weird way. But I mean, one thing that I was going to bring up, which I have

actually repeated this a few times just because I think of it more as like even when we're talking to Dr. Cabral about trying to find my way back to like a parasympathetic state, which is something that I've never even thought about until I went through like the Wim Hof course and you know, kind of worked my way out of just, you know, always just being so driven by overcoming things with my own tense, you know, way of dealing with things. So I'll go back to breathing, I'll lay on the ground, I'll take brain of fem and I'll use the meditated,

not the guided one, but just the meditation music on there. And I try as hard as I can to go through those repeated breaths, big deep breaths, and then small exhale and just try to get hyperoxygenated and then really just try to calm my mind and also just to get my breathing to get in that state. Yeah, it's a complicated answer because I'll give you an example. Some of the most stressful on my CNS, in terms of my CNS, some of the most stressful times of my life involved no physical activity.

Right. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking about something about my business Or I got bad news from the family or something and I'm literally sitting there in this Ridiculously elevated state and it's just hammering my body and some of the most Relaxing times of my life. I've been hard workouts where I'm in the gym or in my garage And I'm training hard and my mind is off of everything that's stressful, and all I'm focused on is the moment and I enjoy working out, so it's this pleasurable experience.

So it's a very complex thing to answer, I guess to be more specific, heat tends to be, unless you push yourself really, really hard with heat where you're trying to go for distance, but heat tends to be relaxing, it tends to be parasympathetic. So, Adam mentioned the sauna, we have the sunlight in sauna here that we use.

That's really great, a hot bath, jacuzzi hot shower, tends to be parasympathetic and relaxing. How you breathe makes a massive difference when you breathe shallow. In the short term, you get a faster oxygen into your system. That's why you breathe shallow when something scary happens. You're prepared to run or fight or whatever. But in a long term, that elevated

course all over time can cause problems. You want to go parasympathetic. You belly breathe. I mean, an exercise that I have that I have have my clients do, is I'd have them lay on their back, and I'd have them place one hand on their chest, and one hand right on their navel. And I'll have them breathe in deeply, and the goal is to get the hand that's on their navel to rise up first and fully before the chest does. And then when they breathe out,

it follows the same kind of pattern. And what it does is it encourages these kind of full diaphragmatic breaths. Now, why does this work? Well, there's this internal and external feedback system in the body that tells you whether or not you need to relax or be stressed out. So internally would be, I think about something and it causes me to breathe shallow and it causes all these physical reactions that represent sympathetic state. On the flip side, if I create the situation where I breathe in a way that's parasympathetic and I relax my body, maybe place myself in heat, my brain and my body will pick up the

signal that, okay, we can actually relax a little bit. So if you're having these crazy, racing, stressful thoughts, it might be a good idea to belly breathe and put yourself in a situation where your brain may be reading the physical signs and saying, okay, things are okay and we can kind of relax. And that may counter that particular feeling. But it's an important thing to understand that. You need to have balance.

Sympathetic is important in so-as-parasynpathetic. The reason why we focus so much on this podcast in particular, on parasympathetic is because modern life does not lend itself well to no distraction, no noise, no signals, nothing to think about. It's almost never that way. Like, as soon as you wake up, to the moment you go to bed, there's something going on. Slashing lights, sounds, anything's gonna contribute.

That's right, and it might not be extreme stress, like I'm not running from a crocodile or something, but it is this kind of low-level, moderate crocodile. It's like, that'd be fucking terrifying. Right. You know, there's short distances. You can get out, run it. Yeah, short distances are fast.

Yes, when they're too scared of bears. Yeah, when they're too feet away from you They are pretty scary. It'll catch me because my my spring distance is a random animal This is a thought of a scary animal catcher You know what it is the other day I was watching a Mipping there's got to be a reason why you chose it. I was watching this video. I think it was on Instagram I might be that page that you showed me Justin, what is it called, nature's metal?

Nature's metal, I love that. And there was just the crocodiles that were eating, it was in a zoo and they were throwing chickens in there or something. And crocodiles are, they're fucking vicious. And one of them just grabbed onto another crocodile's arm, didn't even realize it was his arm and just twisted it off.

Oh wow. You just ripped off his buddy's arm. So you're zero vegan subscribe to that. Yeah, crazy. But anyway, it's not the super high level intense amount of stress. It's this kind of moderate, constant, never goes away type of stress. And so you want to interrupt that with the states of relaxation being in the moment, no stimulation in the quiet, in the dark, maybe in some water, something warmer in a sauna,

and allow your body to quote unquote reset. It really makes a huge difference. Yeah, it's such common sense, but it's so hard for people to apply these days. I mean, we could say this to death, but I mean, how many people are gonna set aside time away from everybody else and then get in a place that's super quiet

in a be still and let everything relax. Bro, I remember the first time. I remember the first time I tried to learn how to meditate. And so I used to, in my wellness studio, at one point, I owned a second location that had group classes, and there was this meditation, I don't know, expert or teacher in there, who was teaching meditation classes.

And so when we were talking, he was like, have you ever tried meditation? Do you have tried 10 times? And it just doesn't work for me. And so I'm explaining it to him and he goes, look, you're trying to meditate hard. He's like, that's the exact opposite of what it's all about. You can't push it, you push through it and be hard with it. You have to release into it. Yeah. And it's, it's, you have to like release into it. It's a come to it.

Like yoga, like you guys ever seen, you know, yoga classes where yoga is supposed to be this kind of, again, parasympathetic, you know, relaxing type. And you got, you know, people doing like power yoga. I saw yoga class with weights once, no joke, where people holding dumbbells in position. And so they're turning something that's parasympathetic into a sympathetic state.

Yeah. So it's, you know, really it's just, you gotta take the time to take away dumbbells in position. And so they're turning something that's parathetic into a sympathetic state. So it's, you know, really it's just, you gotta take the time to take away all these distractions, quiet your mind, quiet your body. For some people, movement is easier. Like it's harder for me to sit still and quiet my mind than it is for me to walk. And quiet my mind, I think it just occupies

that part of my brain, you know, that I'm doing something. And so it allows, you know, allows me to relax. But if you do that, you're gonna perform better because you're allowing your body the ability to balance itself out and adaptation happens better in that state. If you're constantly in this stressed state, you're never gonna give your body or your brain

or your mind or whatever, the ability to get into that state where things do adapt and rebuild. It's always in this state of protection, and your body doesn't adapt very well in that particular state. And hold on to all resources. That's right. Next question is from Tizzle's corner.

Is there any benefit to training for hypertrophy while dieting? Of course. Absolutely. Of course. I mean, I think there's probably, I mean, there's always beneficial to train for hypertrophy. Well, more so in this one. I'm glad I think there's probably, I mean, there's always beneficial to train for a person a lot more so in this one.

I'm glad that you picked this question though, because one of the most common things that we get from somebody, especially on the forum, who just purchased like a maps program, is they open it up and then they see all the different phases that we've broken it up into and they want us to tell them, you know, should I be at a cut or should I be bulking or where should my calories be in relation to the phase. And the truth is, all the above. I mean, I think there's value to training a hypertrophy phase

and being in a surplus. I think there's value to training in a hypertrophy phase and being in a deficit. And so, it really depends on what your ultimate goal is, right? If our ultimate goal is to build and you want to bulk or you want to add size, well, it's probably more advantageous to be in a surplus, a more often than you're in a deficit if you're trying to build. If you're somebody who's trying to cut them, the opposite is true.

But I love to, this is one of my favorite things about, and I think it's really important about organizing your programming in phases, is you can test these things, like how your body responds. Like, I think some of us do really, really well when we're fed and we're doing a strength training program. I'm actually the opposite.

I love, I like being more fed on hypertrophy. I like being more in a deficit of strength. Now, it doesn't benefit my strength, but I don't care. I'm looking for the results out of it, right? So when I'm in a cut and we're going through like a phase one of MAPS and a BALLIC, I just, I love the way I feel.

I feel like it keeps me really hard and solid and I feel like I'm, when I lean a ballic, I just, I love the way I feel. I feel like it keeps me really hard and solid and I feel like I'm, when I lean out really well, my body holds on to most of the muscle mass. I don't know if that's because I'm more of an ectomorph body type and so it serves me better that way, but other people are different. Other people would rather be in a surplus. I think it's important that you experience hypertrophy training,

strength training, all these different phases, both in a deficit and a surplus, so you can see how your body responds to that. Okay, so resistance training is always or should always, unless you're an athlete and you're very weary about weight classes and stuff, but your training should always be geared towards hypertrophy. So whether it's strength, whether it's the pump, or whether it's a pure hypertrophy phase, that's what resistance training does. Lifting weights, builds muscle, and builds strength.

That's exactly what it does. Now let's think of the negative effects that you're trying to mitigate when you're dieting. Okay, let's think of the negatives. Now we know the good effects of dieting, which is getting leaner. That's why you're doing it in the first place. But we're the two biggest stumbling blocks that occur anytime you're in a deficit. Well, the first one is metabolic adaptation. My metabolism is trying to adapt and slow down.

And the second one is the loss of muscle mass, both of which are intricately connected. So why would you try to train in a way that would not preserve muscle when you're in a deficit? It doesn't make any sense. Well, I mean, that was gonna be part of my point is, most people will tend to think that a hit style trainer, whatever, would combo the best probably with being an indeficent wind.

In fact, what you're saying makes a lot more sense in terms of countering the effects of your body, trying to adapt downward into where it's trying to get rid of mass. Be more efficient at this new standard that it's your applying and you're telling your body you want. So to go into a hypertrophy training makes even more sense as you're going into a deficit. And sometimes what happens when you're dieting is especially when you're getting really lean. Like let's say you're a competitor

and you're three weeks or four weeks before your show. Sometimes all you can do is keep muscle. You're not building, you're just keeping it. But that's not because you're trained to keep muscle necessarily, it's because you're training to build it and the low calories is preventing you from building it. But it's also because you're training to build, you're preventing yourself from losing it.

That makes any sense. In fact, if you talk to any competitor Their goal is to build muscle during their you know bulk and then keep it while they cut right, you know gaining while you're cutting Very very difficult to do almost impossible at a particular level at least it feels that way No, it's pretty much impossible unless you're on anabolic I mean if you're running anabolic you could I used to say you could grow and do a show You know, so you could if you're take if you're anabolic 24 or 7 because you're you're on antibiotics. I mean, if you're running antibiotics, I used to say you could grow into a show. So you could, if you're anabolic 24 or 7

because you're taking a synthetic testosterone, then absolutely on refeed days and days that you do add a bunch of calories, there's that possibility of growing into a show. But for the average person who's all natural, yeah, it's pretty inevitable, you're catabolic. So the likelihood of building muscle at that time is, I mean, here's the thing too You're catabolic, you know, so the likelihood of building muscle that time is, I mean, here's the thing too, is like to keep in mind,

like, you know, we talk about phases, the importance of transitioning in and out of them, you know, every three to four weeks, we talk about not staying on long cuts or long bulks for long periods of time. So at the end of the day, you know, what I think tends to serve people best, that are in pursuit of overall health and fitness and aesthetic change.

I'm speaking to you again, like I said, not athletes. There's exceptions to the role here is to do whatever it is that you don't do most of the time. You know, if you're somebody who always does a high-perture of V-phase and you always are cutting when you do that, well, I think it would serve you to be fed in a hypertrophy phase and actually be in a surplus every now and then I think that's important to do this. So the real takeaway for me is like I can put a spin on why

being in a deficit or a surplus on every type of a training phase is bad or good. The truth is whatever your body is most used to, the opposite is probably what will serve you the most, in my opinion. 100% agree. But, you know, you made an important point there with the cutting and bulking, you know,

just like your face or training, you should face your nutrition. You don't want to sliver it, for sure. Yeah, and if your goal is ultimately to burn body fat, you know, that's where you want to spend more of your time. You should definitely weave in and out of calorie deficits, maintenance, and surplus. It'll prevent you from, you know, getting that nasty metabolic, you know, adaptation that ends up happening with long cuts where now you're in a position where you're lean,

but in order to stay lean, you have to really, really low calories and you have to work out a lot and burn a lot of calories, just to maintain where you're at. And that tends to set you up for failure afterwards. And so why you see people after a diet gain weight back so quickly and then some. And now we even have evidence that shows that what may actually be happening when you do that, especially in extreme cases, is you don't just increase the size of your fat cells. You're adding more fat cells to your body when you do that in extreme case. So like you have a competitor, goes into a contest,

2% body fat, super low calories, lots of cardio. Then they come out of it and they're like, yay, contest is over, eat everything and stop doing all this cardio and they'll gain 30 pounds. I mean, this is not an exaggeration. 30 pounds in a matter of weeks. You know, I've seen people do that.

And now we have evidence that shows that they may not just be getting fatter in terms of the size. At a new fat cells. New, and you know, it's funny. It's crazy. You know, it's funny, dude. This actually makes sense. I know Adams followed bodybuilding like I have.

And you'll see this with competitors over the years where they'll compete over and over again and go through that crazy gain, you know, bulk and crazy cut and each time they hit a show, they look less and less sharp. Like their body just can't, you know, keep doing it. And I think it might be because they're not counting. They're just new fats. Yeah, they keep adding more and more fat cells. And now it's really crazy. No, I think it's really nice. My's a nice one. No, I think it's really nice. The next question is from Mr. James J. Cho.

Will you guys ever come out with a mind pump personal trainer network so we can hire trainers, we can trust. We go back and forth with this, with this, with this conversation. You know what I think? I think we're going to, but I think we won't do it until we do it. We find a way that we're going to do it different than everybody else. What I mean by that is, you know, we could easily create some sort of a mastermind with affiliate, whatever everybody just gets one.

Right. And I mean, the business would definitely make a lot of money off of it, and it would be great for us, and yada, yada, yada. But I think we're all still kind of wrapping our brain around what this would look like for my pump if we were to do it. I absolutely do believe that. And I know like, especially Justin, because Justin's the app guy,

loves that, knows that one day we belong, everything belongs on an app for us. And so, you know, I know he's always in this. I know he's always envisioned this. And I forget the company who kind of does this that I think they don't, I don't think it looks that great though But where they highlight trainers and it would be it would be really cool if you could come to the my pump app and on there There's you know trainers all over the country and they're rated by stars based off the

Refuse like thumbtack. Yes, that's the company. I was there and I think of thumbtack So I think there is a way to do something like that where they're all certified by my, or by my pump. And then on top of that, there is a Uber type rating system on there so you could find a choice. Oh, there's a lot of fact. I mean, we need a Silicon Valley wizard to come help us with that undertaking. But yeah, I mean, there's, oh my God,

our brain has been there even before we started my pump. So, you know, that's definitely something that I definitely I think in the future, you will see something where people can connect and and find quality trainers that we will have some say as far as like who's you know aligned with us, but there'll be a lot more to that and you know, I will go crazy with that once we actually get the tech support, you know, behind it us, but there'll be a lot more to that. And, you know, we'll go crazy with that. Once we actually get the tech support, you know, behind it, I think. Yeah, the big problem with this and one of the big things

that we're, we get challenged with is the quality control. Right. Because, you know, as we get bigger, there's going to be a lot of trainers that want to, you know, maybe get this certification, right? And the last thing that any of us want to do is have a certified mind pump trainer be not good, be terrible. And that's a little bit of a challenge because you want to grow it,

but at the same time, you want it to be perfect. And so we could be in a situation where there's like 15 mind pump certified trainers. And we have a market demand for, I mean, you might take a test and that's going to take some effort first to put together. But even that, see, here's a deal, okay, here's the problem with that. And maybe this is our... Because you could lack integrity, still.

That's what I'm saying. And maybe this is our, to our detriment, right? It's a human element to it. That's right, we've all been trainers for a long time. This is why I think, well, this is also why I think the Uber type rating system would be great for it, though. But see, even that, here's a, and I agree with you, I think that would be

a way, way better improvement over what we may have now. And so I like that idea, but look, we've been training people forever. And if we were to actually really sit down and list all the attributes of a really good trainer, the list would be long as fuck, and some of the things, I don't know how you would test for besides. It would quantify it.

Yeah, besides I need to work with them for, you know, a year before I realized, you know, if they're really good. Or the integrity piece. You would just have to, bro, you, you of all people, you would just have to believe in the free market. Well, you mean you would have to believe that, you know, the ratings eventually that if that trainer doesn't have good integrity or that trainer has Doesn't have as many attributes as another one that

Eventually that will be found out through people hiring them and train them and then they're ranking and stars It would just be nice. I see it as being people we've met, you know person the person and then we have like Yeah, maybe like 10 that we know and we can really put our name with what they're doing currently and then that would be sort of the example that we build underneath. So here's what I'm saying with that, Adam. So that would be more of a trainer rating app or something that we develop.

It would not be a service where their mind pumps certified. So let me give you an example. Why not both? Well, here's an example. Like CrossFit, for example, very much had this mentality where all you had to do is get across this certification, you could become affiliated and you can open up a CrossFit gym and the belief from glassmen was,

that's a hundred percent what happened. But in the meantime, you had all these shitty coaches, you know, training people and hurting people or whatever. And that's okay because they went out of business, but at the same time they were under the name. Yeah, but across. Yeah, but imagine if, imagine if they built it like what we're saying right now, imagine it before if all, if you used the cost, CrossFit brand, right? So if you used it and you would be a part of this app, no matter where you're in the country, you'd be under there. And so there would be a living breathing rating on there of matter where you're in the country, you'd be under there. And so there would be a living, breathing rating

on there of people coming to your class. And if you were a shitty coach who wasn't giving results and you were hurting people, you'd probably have a one and a half star rating. And even though you would be under there, you would just keep it. I have an idea with that, because then they just go out of business,

which is what classmates say. But I have an idea, what if there was a rating app like you're saying and the only trainers that are mind pump certified Or the ones that maintain a five star everyone else is still on there and has any opportunity to get themselves to move up But only the top ones are the ones that we say or mind pump certified. See what I'm saying. Oh, okay No, I don't want that's the thing. I don't want anybody under I don't want anybody to be a mind pump certified trainer Just because they're on a rating gap. So maybe that's part of the criteria.

It's not only do you have to have gone through all this stuff to be on the app, but then I additionally, that to be technically certified, you have to average it. How transparent are we? We're just giving away everything. Well, five of you are doing that. Well, five of you are doing that. Please, somebody go build it for us.

Somebody please go build it for us. It is a frame, buddy. I got to do that. Engineering, this motherfucker. Yeah, as you can see, who the fuck has time to do that? And paying for this motherfucker, we better get to a whole other level. That's the thing that happens.

That's true, that's true. Yeah, like good luck trying to fucking build that. But wait, we talk about it every day, if someone's wondering. But till this day, the best, I mean, I hate to say it, the best way to find a good trainer is word of mouth. Till this day, till this day,

if you know people that have trained with someone who really liked them, that's probably a better, more accurate, to refer to a trainer than just looking at like certifications and oh, what gym do they work out? Like, you know, do you know someone that you trust that really likes working with this trainer and really enjoys working with them? I have a way more input on this, but I'm gonna save it. Andrew, PMF, do you ever wonder if you're swinging out of your league when it comes to your partner? Who's just referring to you? Yeah, you know, something, you know, I'll tell you what, you know,

my when I first started dating Jessica, you know, she's, she's younger than me. She's not super, like, ton younger than me. She's what eight years younger, really attractive, really intelligent, and I am a pretty confident person. I'm very confident in myself. However, I am also well aware of the fact that I'm a divorced dad of two children. And a lot of people- That's like a minus two right away. Well, and that's the thing, a lot of people- Makes you an eight right out the gates. Yeah, a lot of people can view that as a burden or, and people talk like that.

You hear people talk like that. Oh, they're really, I wanna date them, but they already have kids in their divorce. It's like this, because now she has to deal with the challenges of having children right out the gates to boom. That aren't hers. That aren't hers.

She also has to deal with the challenge of my ex-wife being in her life because whoever dates me, my ex-wife is going to be in my life for the rest of my life. And that's just the fact. And it's not because I want necessarily her to be in my life because my kids are in my life and that she's the other parent. So those are two big things that at the time kind of weighed on me. And so I was really weary of that.

And Jessica and I used to talk about it a lot. And so you definitely are out of your league then, by those days. Well, she know, we communicate a lot. It's just because like a dime, dude. And you're if you're an eight, that makes that mean that would get. I'm a six.

I'm a six. I feel like guys always go to points up. Yeah. It's not how it works. Maybe, I don't know. I told her, hey babe, one day I'm gonna be rich. Don't worry. No, I think't know. I told her, hey babe, one day I'm going to be rich, don't worry. No, I think, you know, it was, we, her and I had a lot of conversations around this because

I would kind of voice this and she's, you know, she's such a loving, you know, wonderful person. She's been an incredible stepmother to my kids. I mean, truly caring, you know, it's funny, like just last night, she takes my daughter upstairs and she's teaching her, you know, how to floss her teeth properly and brush her teeth properly and then she plays hangman with my daughter in bed while she's going to bed. And the whole reason why she's doing it, she wants a loan time to build, you know, a relationship

with my daughter. And I'll tell you what, man, as a father, you know, you guys know how much I care about my kids. When I see that, that's worth, see that, that's worth a billion, that's worth more money, more than anything in the world. And so, I could see how I could get into that state of thinking like, oh man, I'm not worthy of this person, but I try to repay it by being a good partner to her

and showing her how much I appreciate it. I think it's a detriment to your partner if you think that they're out of your league. I think if you think, yeah, if you think you're not worth your partner if you think that they're out of your league. I think if you think that I feel. Yeah, if you think you're not worth your partner, you're in a bad place personally. Yeah, and you're not going to be a great partner. No, I 100% agree with that. And I'm glad you said that before I came over and sounded like a cocky guy and said,

like, no, I absolutely believe I got what I deserved. Right. I 100% and I'm so glad that I've waited that long in my life before I really, truly settled down with anybody. Up until Katrina, the longest relationship I ever had was like two years, and my MO was more like nine months to a year tops than I dated a lot for a very long time. And now that I have settled down with someone that I've been with and will be with for us my life for eight years we've been together, fuck yeah, no, that's what I was waiting for.

I was waiting for somebody who I've valued and loved as much as I loved myself. I mean, let's be honest, I mean, that's... I don't like it that much. Fuckin' ideal. She's that bad, dude, you know? But I think that's important. I think you can't fully love somebody else

until you love yourself. 100% right. 100% yeah. Yeah, go ahead. And so if you have to question that, is somebody out of your league already, like that's already a problem. If you think that she or he is out of your league,

that means it has nothing to do with him, has everything to do with you and you have work to do on yourself. And it's important that you level up that means it has nothing to do with them, has everything to do with you and you have work to do on yourself. And it's important that you level up and love yourself that way before you truly find someone that you can love fully. So, no, I think I got what I deserve, man.

I really do and I'm blessed to have her and we have an incredible relationship because of it. And I think all of that is the process, right? So if I were to still be with a person that I was with, the longest proceeding my wife, I was a very insecure person back then. And I did sort of find that person a little bit out of my league

at the time just because of my own state of mind and what I was contributing to the relationship. And going through that process, I started to realize like, it was just myself, it was my own insecurities I was projecting out there. And so I started to change that about myself and just started talking, if I was interested in a girl, I'm just gonna talk to that girl. It was as simple as that.

And thankfully thankfully Courtney, it was a very long process of getting her attention. And so just going through that and just knowing already that that's what I wanted and I was just set on it. And then getting to that place where she was finally available and it worked out. It's like, she knows how much I value her already. And then, on the other end of that,

I know how much she values me. And then she tells me that all the time. And so it's, it is. It's like I felt secure and confident in myself. And that she feels that same way. And so it's one of those things where that's why it works. Otherwise, there is going to be a little bit of conflict. Katrina tells this story to people all the time

because she thinks I'm so funny with the, you know, I'm terrible at sharing my emotions and feelings, but I'm also very radically honest, right? And so when we first started dating, I mean, this is actually before we're dating, we were first talking and I was, I just came out of a relationship that I've been in for a while for almost two years. And I told her straight up that he listened, I'm just not in a place

to commit to a relationship, but I love hanging out with you and I really like you. And we were kind of doing this like back and forth thing where we see each other every once in a while and then I go, she used to say I used to give her the stiff arm when we get really close, that's what she used to say. And I remember, uh, you know, we did that for almost six months. And I were still to this day. Remember the conversation we were sitting in my room when she basically told me like, that shit doesn't, isn't going to fly with her anymore. But the way that she presented it and said to, said it to me, uh, was, was so cool. And that was so easy for me to transition into like, fuck, this is the girl I wanna be with,

this is the girl that I wanna date. Because up into that point, you know, there'd always be things that would happen in the relationship that I'd be in where I just didn't feel like their communication level was at mine and I was like, there's no reason to fight. There's no reason to argue and call names or you know, get so flustered over these types of things.

Like if we're a true partnership, we're a team. Like we should be able to be who we are and be able to communicate that to ourselves. Whether it's a hard thing or not a hard thing. And that was something that I had so much respect for her at the beginning because I knew that she was in a position that was hard and difficult for her. And then the way that she communicated that to me and expressed that, it wasn't emotional, it wasn't irrational, it wasn't angry,

it was just like this is where I'm at. And this is, I see, I respect where you're at, but this is the decision that I want to make. And I respect you if you don't, I was just like, fuck dude, first for it. I've never had a woman talk to me like this. Like I've been looking for this my whole life. And I think it's important that you wait until you find somebody like that.

And I do believe that I got what I deserve, you know? Yeah, I think if you're in a relationship and you think that you don't deserve them, if you truly believe, because I know people say that, like it's this endearing thing. Like, oh my, you know, my wife. She's top that shit. I don't deserve her, you know, she's so dumb. And she holds everything together.

I mean, I don't know we think that that's cute and stuff, but really, I'm talking now seriously now. If you really believe that, and now consider how you're probably gonna behave in your relationship. If you're with someone that you really think you don't deserve to be with, you're probably going to protect yourself all the time. You're probably going to have your guard up all the time. You're probably going to try to one up things because you think, well, I'm not worthy of

this person in any given moment. They're going to leave jealous as fuck. That's it. That's it. They're going to leave me and it's gonna hurt me. And so I need to have my guard up. I need to protect myself because, you know, I know I don't deserve this person, so I need to be ready for when the fucking shoe drops. I need to, you know, I need to be ready for that. And you end up, you know, you actually end up sabotaging

the relationship that you value so much. You know what I'm saying? Well, you need to say to yourself is like, what Adam said, like, look, this is, you know, and kind of you might even be an awe. Like you might even be like, wow, that's what I deserve. That's the kind of person that I get to be with. If you really love them and think they're that awesome, reflect that on yourself and realize, well, I'm fucking awesome to them. That's pretty great. And you'll feel grateful of anything. You'll be far more

far more secure. You won't enter into conversations or situations or scenarios with your guard up trying to protect yourself. That has probably destroyed more relationships than anything. Is that whole like that insecure, defending or guarding yourself before something happens, type of deal? That's got to be one of the number one reasons why relationships fail. why people aren't able

to communicate with each other. So really, at the end of the day, if you truly value that person that much, to the point where you feel like you're lucky, remind yourself that, okay, I'm getting what I deserve, which means I'm probably pretty awesome, or at least this person that I value thinks I'm this awesome, so I'm gonna act like it.

I'm gonna act confident, I'm gonna act calm. We're gonna move forward together, and you'll find that things will be a lot easier and you won't self sabotage your own relationship. So check this out. If you go to mindpumpfree.com, you can get one of our free guides. Actually, you can get all of them if you want.

The newest guide, what's the newest one they came out as a squat? Is it getting a, be able to squat like a pro? It's flying right now too. It's a great guide. Teach you. One of my favorites that you wrote. Advanced techniques on how to get your squat

through the roof and build cakes like Justin. Hey, hey, hey. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad,

maps to performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a fine star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindP Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.