Miss Me? - Emergent Service Worker

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss Chappell Roan’s take on fan culture, fibroids and class.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. If you have been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find support via the BBC Action Line: https://bbc.co.uk/actionline/ Credits: Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, welcome to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This show contains some very strong language and some adult adult themes. Yeah, you better believe it. Excuse me. Hello. If you're reading what I can call you back later. I'm sorry. Kind of have this hour assigned to chat. Just, you know, engrossed in my book. Sorry about that. What are you reading?

Don't pretend you didn't want me to talk about it. I'm reading a book called More and it's a memoir of an open marriage by an author called Molly road and winter You did tell me that you were doing some actual reading not like bits and bobs that actually reading books and getting through them I didn't know that was one of them No, this is more just a fun book But it did lead on from our conversation about polyamory last week or a couple of weeks ago, and then I saw I got like a little Advert I guess maybe because we were talking about it on my Instagram about polyamory

No, yeah Well for the New York Times, they said, you know, here's two novels about polyamory and they're both about couples in Brooklyn, which is where I live. And so I just went and I bought the books and now I'm reading them and they're very interesting. It's a whole new world out there

that I hadn't really considered, but now I'm deep in it. Well, I'm happy that we talked about polyamory then if it does take many forms and exists in unexpected places. There's also another book called The Ethical Slut which I've started reading which really goes is a deep dive into all the different types of you know non-monogamous relationships that exist in the world and there are so many, so crazy. No one ever says to a monogamous couple, this is a weird idea to stay together and only have sex with each other, why would you do that? But that's not questioned really, is it? The other way always is.

Yes, and also, I don't know, it's funny because, you know, our whole modern capitalist western civilization is all sort of built around the idea of marriage, right? And the statistics for marriage being successful are really, really low. It's sort of amazing that we still do it, sort of buy into it as a concept. It's sort of like if you knew that 60% of all, you know, car journeys would end in a crash, like are you going to, you know, probably not going to get into crash. Like, are you gonna, I'm probably not gonna get into a car anymore, I'll get the subway. Yes, but the fact that, yeah, but every plane you get

onto and every bus you get into and every car has crashed once before, but you live in the hope that today's not the day that that happens. Yeah, but like 60% of marriages or something, I don't know what the statistics are, don't succeed. We like to take a walk on the wild side, you know? Like, marriage is a fucking risk. Just like everything else, it's a risk.

Anyway, I can highly recommend the book. I can highly recommend the book more. I'm happy that you're in this though. Yeah. Not in this, but in the book. In the book. Anyway, I did something today. Do I look different to you?

I mean, you're quite small on my screen. Oh, yeah, you like to keep me quite small on FaceTime. You like to be the larger one. No, we're actually equal. I... I chanted today. Oh. And it's something that my cousin Shabazz, he was a Rastafarian for years

and years and then he incorporated Buddhism into his life. I taught him when I did the Caribbean show for this wonderful establishment, the BBC, with my mother a few years ago and he was talking about just the power of chanting, the power of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. That was about three years ago and I'm like, God, I should really do that chanting thing and today my trainer was ill and I was like I have an hour and I did it and I'm not joking not joking there are these beautiful green and turquoise birds I don't know which ones they are I have to check my birdwatching book but they sing at the top of their lungs and they flit about in the trees I see them in the

evenings but today I was awake and present and like four of them, these turquoise birds just went brrrr, after I finished chanting and then I opened my window. It was literally like the sound of music. Opened my window and the whole of the marshes and all these birds were just flying around. I was like, does this happen every morning? And I just, I'm not open to it.

I'm just not looking for it. That's exciting. Transcendental shit. My mom chants. I'm just not looking for it. That's exciting. Transcendental shit. My mom chants. I got a really funny video, because my kids don't have phones. When we were on holiday in Italy, Marnie, my youngest one,

would always sneak off to my mom's room because that's where she keeps her phone charging. Oh, I was gonna say, oh, to hug Nanny Ali? No, to get her phone. No, no, no, no. She'd go and play on the games that are on my mom's phone. But my mom, you know, obviously feels very comfortable in front of Marnie and she was sitting in her armchair

doing her chanting. I think it's Indian and Marnie obviously thought this was very funny and filmed it and sent it to the family WhatsApp group from my mom's phone. And so I've got this video of my mom chanting and she goes into a trance. It's crazy, like she's really in it. I was like, okay cool.

Yes, I'm with you Auntie Alison. Could you send me that video? Because it is really hard to sit on your bed and chant something and believe it and get lost in it. But it's not, it took me five seconds and I was like, I'm in. Because what it is, let me just say this really quickly. Nam-myo-renge-go saying that over and over again there is a general hum that goes from the top of your body to the bottom

so it's very quick to feel complete connection to every part of yourself I think I just I think I'm gonna do it every day and it's gonna do a wondrous things for my days. I'm so excited for you. Maybe I'll start doing it. I need some connectivity with myself. Oh my God, well we've got that night coming up in your Le Provenment in London town that's finished and we're gonna spend, very sweet Lily, you've asked me to spend the first night there together.

Like we're like seven again, but like in grown up house, but it's yours. Yeah, that'd be funny. So exciting. We can do the chanting together. I had quite a difficult week with my health. I didn't really talk to you this weekend because I didn't want to talk to anyone to be honest. I didn't want to fucking talk to anyone. I had no plans and no calls. People called me I just didn't take them. Sorry to everyone. I just didn't want to look at another human being. And I'd been to the doctors in the week and I'd been so busy that I just kept running afterwards.

I was like, okay, well, I found that information out. But I did find out that I have really serious fibroids in my womb. And I have to have quite a big operation because basically fibroids are quite rife and particularly rife in black and brown women Particularly from the ages 30 to 50 I mean, it's literally like tick tick tick But I have no idea that I would have them or I had had them because he says my lovely doctor that it could be About six years that I've had them Lily Can I ask a question about it?

How is it, do you find them because you, were you in pain and you went to go and ask what the pain could be about, or do you, is it when you get your smear test, do you find them? Like, what, how do you find them? This is the issue, like, I don't know how often people are getting smear tests,

but like, please go get as many as you can. I'm not great, but I'm getting better. Autumn that I work with is 22, she's never had one. I have one every year. To you? Yeah, I just always seem to have a fucking speculum up there. We'll talk about that later because people don't know

about those examinations, but it was because I was having deep, deep lower back pain all the time, especially around my period. So I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then she said, have you ever had a scan on your womb or your tummy? I was like no She was like it's full of fibroids. So it's taken me. This was last year It's taking me six months to go see another doctor because I haven't really had the time and I guess I was a bit scared And now it's like he's very lovely. Thank God for lovely doctors, but it's just I

Have to have quite serious surgery. I can't have keyhole surgery I think it's important that people look for this because why would you look it's completely symptomless and they are non cancerous growths Two in three women develop at least one fibroid during their life So it's definitely something to be thinking about as something that just even exists in our health That I'd never heard of well I had because mum had it. Do you find them if you have a smear test? I don't think so because I've had a smear in the last six years and I and they said that um that he thinks I've had these for six years so I don't think they are in a smear test.

I think you have to get an ultrasound. Right. Which isn't something many people would ask for very often. I'm 40 and I've never had one on my tummy ever. Well, it should be offered, shouldn't it? Well, quite. But there is obviously a conversation about the fact that this is,

because I spoke to someone that I know that's also had fibroids and had them removed, and she told me a few other friends that we know that had them, and they were all black or brown women that we know. So I think that it's quite serious that it's bigger in those women, and I mean that we know so I think that it's quite serious that it's bigger in those women and I mean that might be a reason that it's not researched and looked into in the way that it should be yeah you would have thought that if it is particularly prevalent in that

section of society then that section of society should be offered regular screening that's not gonna happen that wouldn't have enough fucking should happen it should happen start campaign the fibroid campaign me. Yeah We can do it together. This is us doing it. Really. This is kicking off our month-long fibroid Awareness campaign because if the powers it be won't lead us to look for these things We're gonna have to tell you and miss me. Yeah, it's finally just be a public service But I wonder how,

you know, because even there might be people that listen to this and go, yeah, you know, I'm black or brown and I am of this age group that is susceptible to this particular issue. I'm going to go to my doctor and ask for an ultrasound. Are they going to be met with a yes, of course, come this way or are they going to be met with a well, you haven't got any other symptoms. So yes, exactly. Well, this comes into the bigger conversation about the way black and brown people feel about the health care system in general. I think that there is a total lack of trust because of a consistent lack of care in that sector, lack of understanding. Like I was having this examination, you have to, you know, put your legs in stirrups and have a man put his hand inside you and

Talk to you in your eyes while that's happening. It's a very strange thing. Sounds like an average Thursday night with me and my husband to be honest No stirrups in this house This is what I mean. It is so close to sex that it's really hard to change the way you feel about a man putting his hand inside you that's not sexual. You have to really fucking trust that person. You have to trust that person to even take off your jeans. What, trust that it's not sexual for them, you mean? Because obviously you'd want to be able to trust somebody that was doing it in a sexual way too. You'd want to trust in both arenas.

He'd be trusted in both parties that are putting their hands inside you absolutely. But what I'm saying is as a doctor, why do I trust him? Because he's a doctor. He's still a man. Because he sees these things as just gynecological. Every day he's like a butcher in an abattoir, right? Let's not use the word butcher a butcher in a abattoir, right? Let's not use the word butcher, okay? Abattoir. Jesus Christ, Makita, I think you need to speak to your therapist.

He's like a magician at the circus. Like it all just becomes the same old shit, right? Yeah. But I still have to trust him. And if you are from an ethnic background and you have a language that isn't, English isn't your first language and you've been disregarded in some way the last thing you want to do is take your trousers off to be examined when you don't feel like you're in a safe space that's what I'm

saying a long-winded way to get there no I completely get it I mean I have a gynecologist in London I don't have one here actually but shout out Colin Davis Is that your gynae? Yeah, he's my obstetrician delivered both my babies Oh And Adele's Excuse me Yeah, I know he's had that hand up some very famous badges

It was funny actually because I remember watching When she did her Las Vegas residency He must have gone to go and see the show and she'd like sort of amount of tickets or whatever But then there's a part of the show where she goes like I was like, no, he didn't you did that but he was there but it was the same. Yeah, my same doctor Well, Colin just gets shouted out in all types of media, good for him. He just seems very interested in reproduction. Not with me, but as a concept. Right, but you, right, okay, and that makes you trust him.

I've just never felt anything other than like, you know, a very clinical relationship with him. He's very like, boundary-ed and very, I don't know, I've just always felt comfortable with him. If you would like to go and see Colin, I can introduce you. He's a great guy and I'm sure he could help you with this issue. But what issue? Oh, the fibroids. I thought you meant... Well, okay.

I think you're talking to it. Put their hand in front of my ear. I was like, no, it's not my issue. It's something we have to go through. No, what I was going to say is we have to say we're in very privileged positions. You're talking about a man in private healthcare in London's Harley Street, I imagine. I also went to Harley Street because my mother has got finally into a financial position

where our family have healthcare. It's the first time we've ever had anything like that. And I'm also not saying that like in the lower echelons of like the healthcare system, there aren't brilliant, talented, hard as fuck working doctors and obstetricians and everything. I just think that there is, it can't just be something to be disregarded that this amount of people, this huge, huge, I think minority have stated over and over again that they don't trust the healthcare system and the way they're looked after within it.

Don't think you can ignore that. I know who we should join forces with is um, Kemi? Kami? Kemi. For our Fibro campaign. Yeah, Kemi Badenoch. Ah yes. Because she is a black woman and works in the government and um, well, in the opposition and she-

Stated her working class credentials. As a working class woman as a working class woman from a working class background having worked in McDonald's for a few days would I'm sure be very concerned about that particular part of society and their reproductive health. So she's on the list. Okay, there you go. Should we play that clip of her talking about McDonald's? Let's play the clip. Let's play the list. Okay. There you go. Should we play that clip of her talking about McDonald's? Let's play the clip. Let's play the clip.

I grew up in a middle-class family, but I became working-class when I was 16 working at McDonald's. Sorry? What? Pardon? I love the pardon. I love- Sorry, what? Pardon? That does lead us into our conversation about class. So we wanted to talk about class. Yes. Are these your notes? No, no. Yes, they are. Are they actually? I love that you find it so fascinating that I've... No, they're not my notes. They're like the fact sheets that I get them printed out. Yeah, but that's very sweet like printed out big a3 size

a4 relax good a 4 Okay, where are we going next then fact sheet you said you wanted to talk about class which you know Fucking a lot love talking about class. She might love this. Class, oh class. Well I mean I think it was it's a kind of natural place to go after what we're talking about with them healthcare system. What does class really mean these days? We got told what the origins of class were.

Yeah, well, so the summary is that prior to the Industrial Revolution, British society is divided into three groups based upon families, occupation, social status and political influence. It's roughly broken up into upper, middle and lower. So upper is royalty and wealthy. Okay. Middle is educated professionals and lower classes are those with little to no education. So interestingly they say that pre the Industrial Revolution, class was something that you couldn't move from. You couldn't move from one class to another. But after that, we have been able to able to in the modern in modern society, you can move and do you think this is based on occupation? I think it is yeah, access to education, particularly university level. And yeah, I guess

like, you know, aspiration, you know, you, you can move from one class to another. Yes, but how? Well, I'm not the best person to ask because I'm very confused about it. But your mum did? Yes. Because they're like dock workers, your grandparents. Both my sets of grandparents were working class. And I guess both my parents moved out of working class to what we would describe as being middle

class. My mum through education and my dad through occupation. Nicely put. But talking about education rather than economic status because my dad was successful at what he did but didn't make any money. When my mum moved from Portsmouth to London when she was 17 or 18, she had my sister when she was 17, because she was pregnant and in her first year of university, she got given a council flat in central London in Bloomsbury. So for the first five years of my life, we lived in that council flat and my dad moved in and I went to a state school

But my mom was university educated. So according to this I guess I'm like riding a wave between working class and middle class, right? Because no with this brah with this It's uh, I've got no idea who I am Okay, cuz in 2013 this is according to the BBC, who cares what they fucking think, not joking. Joking! They are the law! They said, they carried out a survey finding there to be seven social classes, okay, we won't do the wall

but we'll try and get through them, the precarious proletariest, which is the poorest and most deprived, and then, this is us, Nil. Emergent service workers. Young urban people who are poor, but with high social cultural capital. I think that's us, right? We're emergent service workers. I mean, I wasn't working, but I was eating baked beans

and packets of angel delight, which my mom got from food stamps or vouchers. Oh, Alice. Yeah, we were poor. Yeah, hun. But I think it's really, you're an incredibly important case study because you have lived both.

Because then from the age of 10, when Alison made her my song and got the Oscar nomination, life was pretty St. Peter's street, four bedroom house, Islington life. So you really have experienced both. Yeah. But you are truly in your heart and emergent service worker.

What the fuck does that mean? But then, I mean, like, cause yeah, because even though when we moved out of Bloomsbury and went to Shepherd's Bush, I guess my mom had enough money to buy a house. Yeah. But she was still, you know, getting child support or not child support.

What do you call it when you go? Dole? Yeah money, dole money. The dole. She'd send me to the post office with the book and I'd go and pick up all the money every week. Did you catch the dole checks?

Sweet. I was never given that responsibility. She trusted me, she didn't trust Sarah. Sarah would have been like bye! Which kid can I trust with this dole check book? Alfie would have been like, bye. Which kid can I trust with this doll check book? Alfie would have asked it. I was the only one that was. Responsible Lily.

Anyway, just one thing to say. What I remember learning about class, and this is something I learned really young, and then I remembered when my early twenties, was that when I was young, all the people that lived in estates or social housing of any kind a lot of them most of them would have pristinely clean houses and good tech like huge tellies and

great high-fives and there was a lot of value put on this one space that you've been given that is your own to make somewhere that you're proud of and that is quite a working class mentality you know like don't touch my trainers yeah that I have a working class mentality. You know, like don't touch my trainers. Yeah, that I have a pair of trainers, they are white and I don't have means to get loads more. Don't fucking touch my trainers. And I really understood that. But then when I was in my 20s, when I started hanging out with Rob Pattinson, sorry to call you out Rob and Tom, they got that flat in Soho and they had like half a sink and like mice. And I was like, isn't they like, you know, with starving artists. I was like, no, you're fucking not. You're from Barnes.

But I kind of understood that thing of like, you know, rebelling against where you're from, but also the value of things you don't hold in the same way. I'm sure they value other things, of course. That for me was always a stark contrast of what class might be but boys are just disgusting as well like David honestly just thinks that like Like mess is like romantic or something like

What's that? We know like he's a bit like with nail and I like that kind of I mean like I'm a You know, like he's a bit like with nail and I like that kind of what I mean like I'm a I'm a tortured artist He just likes to have like the coffee beans all over the fucking worktop. It's just like just leave it. It's Parisian It's like no And please put your boxer shorts in the laundry basket, okay But that's like mom that's why I was always so confused about my class when I was a kid cuz powers terrace our lovely housing trust flat in Westman Park Well, I thought we were like rich aristos Piano Yeah, exactly. But like the way my mom lived. I was like all the poor people I know look after their yard

We live like we're tops in a 10-floor house, but we don't have any money. No wonder I'm so confused about my class I mean, but also the other thing is, you know, we may not have always had money, but we have always had access to Culture. Yes posh fun stuff. Well that has a name new affluent workers young social well young socially culturally active people with middling levels of economic capital I am gonna have emergent service worker tattooed on my forehead Maybe on your bum cheek Maybe on my wrist. Maybe on your bum cheek. Maybe on my bum cheek.

Alright then, I think we're going to take a break because, sick of looking at you, no I'm joking, it's really nice to see you. You're in a good place, so am I, the chanting, laughing, enjoying life again. Let's just let this little birdie have a little breakie. Hey, I don't seem as depressed this week, do I? She's fucking back! Ha ha ha! It's nice to see you smile. Guess what? I'm gonna to New York's Radio City to see musical keen oh my god 20 years of hopes and

fears I am so fucking excited I can't tell you I'm so fucking happy that's in New York and you would be coming with me I am I yes you would you would I'm so fucking excited I can't tell you I'm so fucking happy that's in New York and not in London. You would be coming with me. I am, I, yes you would. You would. You would. I don't want to ruin that for you. I was trying to explain Keen to David last night cause he's coming with me.

Yeah, go on. Go on. How do you explain Keen to an alien? I was like, they're a better cold play. And he was like, what do you mean? And I was like, it will be very middle-aged. And it's quite funny that I'm into Keen because I've been into Keen for 20 years since Hopes and Fears came out. And obviously 20 years ago I was 20 and it was quite middle aged then. So now it's going to be like 60 year olds. And David was like, don't worry. I went to see you two a few years ago. That was really sad. And I'm fine and David was like don't worry I went to see you two a few years ago that was really sad. I was like no no no there is no

Hint of cool with keen like you would they won't not be a leather jacket I was like I actually think that's home from keen went to rehab for his port addiction like that's how Talking of class That is a middle class problem as a particularly middle class red elixir. My port addiction, I'm worried about gout

I'm just... Anyway So you can be not right up my strata. Their songs are so epic and I'm so excited. He has gone through recovery. Yeah, we shouldn't laugh. Should we just say he's gone through recovery and we're not laughing at that?

It's just that was funny, sorry. Have a good time. I will. They actually asked me to get up and sing somewhere only we know with them, but I decided that would be too much. Are you sure? Life's quite short. You're sure you don't want to do that for the 20 year old in you? I think that I will probably get to sing Somewhere Only We Know on stage again at some point in my life.

I don't think life is too short for that. No, I feel like... Maybe not with Keen. That's what I'm saying. Like, let's heal the child inside. Seeing as it's by far the most successful song that I Have ever oh gosh record it. Yeah, actually are we going down? Yeah, it's really annoying It's really annoying, but I didn't write it. So you didn't need them babe. It's fine Anyway, so I was gonna talk about the boxing and see Joshua poor guy. Hmm. Do you give a shit?

I've never liked Anthony Joshua. This is okay now this is what I cannot believe what's going on. I thought that we were all in love with Anthony Joshua in the way that I am. I think he's a very kind, beautiful young man who's done brilliant things to show courage and success and fortitude and focus. And I went to my training session with like Z, my dad's mate and like like my trainer Jerome, and like all the part boys, and they were just tearing Anthony Joshua apart. He's got too complacent. I was like, complacent? And then I said, I said, oh, he lost a few of his last fights.

And he said, no, he's won the last three in a row. And I was like, so what are we doing? Why are we tearing him apart? Yeah, I don't know. I just, I don't really know that much about boxing I mean I've been to quite a few boxing fights in my life and my ex-boyfriend Dan was really into boxing It's not I don't like him. I just never really like warm to him as a personality look from one Winner to another I found my marathon medal

Okay, let me just put that on the camera. That's my marathon medal I did fucking run the London Marathon and I think that as a winner You should be able to lose Losing is a part of winning. He's just won three fights in a row and we can't let him lose one without calling him a complacent loser He's given his life to this game and the country. I take it back I'm sorry. I'm not a winner. I didn't win the marathon. I just ran. I'm a runner You are coming home, I love when you're about to come home. You're coming home next week. I'm coming home next week.

You're going to see the flat, but you're also, you're filming right? You're doing a film. I'm doing a film. Not, that's not until the end of the month. I start shooting at the end of the month. I'm not going to tell you what the film is because I don't think I'm legally allowed to. But yeah, I'm excited slash very nervous nervous but I started working with an acting coach yesterday who was helping me with a sort of Michael Chekhov technique so that was I was really nervous about it but Chekhov was really good and I really enjoyed it and I really liked her and so I'm basically working with her every day until I start so So that was great and I feel, I feel really excited now. I felt really nervous also because the character that I'm playing is like quite

sort of feisty inspirational character. And as we all know, the last few weeks, I have not been feeling feisty or inspirational in any way. So, um, but that, that is, you know, acting. Yes, quite, that is acting. So yeah, acting, showing up for work when you really don't feel in that space is an interesting concept, but yeah, I'm trying to find it within myself,

and I felt much better after I did this session yesterday. Can I ask you about this Chekhov situation? Because I read the Marilyn Monroe autobiography when I was about 11, because it was in my house. And obviously there's a huge amount of it dedicated to the Lee Strasberg acting school and actually her direct work with Lee Strasberg and it's where I discovered what method acting is.

What's Chekhov? Well, I mean, I don't really know much about it except for my introduction to it yesterday but it felt like in your body type stuff, like movement and presence and feeling things in your body, making yourself, you know, sort of like very big, but then having to transfer that bigness into some, you know, while you're very still, but still holding that energy. So, um, and then doing the same thing with like, you know, smallness and then like,

we did thrusting and pushing and it's supposed to be quite good for you at the moment to have to just inhabit all these different feelings. It's really good for me because as we know, I have a proclivity to dissociate when I become overwhelmed. So I'm actually very outside of my body a lot of the time. So, you know, that's what I think is going to be helpful about this technique is, is, yeah, connectedness with my, with my body and with myself and carrying emotion in my body. And what I find interesting about acting is like you do actually, because I thought I'd be so good. I was like, here we go. I've been very good at this other thing that came into

my life, and then we'd be an actress. And I went for that audition for Children of Men, that Clive Owen film, and I had to do like a apocalyptic stroke Caribbean stroke American accent, and put a pillow up my T-shirt and be pregnant in this audition in real life with these like studio people, just two of them in Soho.

This is like when I was 22. And it was the worst experience of my life and I am not an actress. I can't do it for shit and I was really surprised because there is an element of acting in broadcasting sometimes, if you're shit, no, but there is sometimes, but when it came to inhabiting someone else, so much of broadcasting is about getting as close to yourself as possible. Acting is almost the opposite. It's like leaving yourself and just jumping into something else. Or trying to find something that is truthful in yourself that is also truthful within that character, I think is is what I try to do. Right. For me, like stakes has always been very important. So when I'm having to, like, be vulnerable

with one person that I've never met before through a Zoom or whatever it is, you know, this acting class that I did yesterday, there's no stakes, you know? It's just one person. It's harder to get there. Yeah, it gives me nerves. I need it to be more embarrassing

to walk out onto the stage and be like, oh, God, I can't do this. Because what I think is terrifying about doing something of a play is just that moment before in the wings, before you step out. Because once you're on in a play, you're on. You can't even like do something else with your hands. I remember in that bloody play, the first play I came to see, you had to fucking make a salad in the same way every night.

And it was like your hands were acting as well. And you you remember I remember you talking about it when you first got the scene and you like have to block it through like a dance yeah but the business is good actually that they call that business in the business oh what's the business when you have stuff to do with your hands I find that a lot easier we'll give you lots of business I love that can I get a bit more business in this scene? Sure, sure. She can be whisking. Yeah, can I have some business? We'll figure out the business, like, you know, what it is that she's doing or she's holding

or she's, you know, traveling from one side of the stage, what the intention is of that movement and yeah, that stuff I really like because it takes you out of your head and into like, I've got to make a salad I think it's good as well for you to like I think there's been quite a Let's just say the last few weeks been fucking awful for you and a lot of that has come down to being Uh a famous person. Let's be honest and there is an element of like if we want to come for you We just can't come for you. You're like bait and we can just come and eat you if we want to come for you, we just can come for you. You're like bait and we can just come and eat you if we want. It was like watching you being eaten alive the last few weeks.

It was fucking horrible. And it's nice for you to go, there is another reason I'm like even in this game in the first place. Because that side, just be like, what am I doing? Actually, if you think about what Chappell-Rone just said. As an artist, I think she's fucking excellent and very Which is all inspiring. I've been on the Chappell-Rone train for well over a year now I'm glad everyone else is catching up Of course you fucking have

Welcome everyone Late bastards I have evidence. She did feel like some of you have your eye on. On my Instagram, me posting about her a year ago, but anyway. If MySpace was still around she would have been in my top 8 a long time ago. But yes, she, she's changing the landscape. Like, it's really amazing actually. I mean, she posted a thing on her TikTok about what she considers to be inappropriate behavior

from fans trying to interact with her when she's not, we know, working. She says, I don't care that abuse and harassment stalking whatever is a normal thing to do people who are famous or a little famous. Oh wait, Lil. Yeah. We have Chappell Rhone actually saying this. I got them to- Oh, you got them to make a clip?

Whip up a little clip. Oh my God. That's so writing. Let's hear it from Chappell herself. I don't care that abuse and harassment, stalking, whatever, is a normal thing to do to people who are famous or a little famous whatever. That's not normal. That's weird. It's weird how people think that you know a person just because you see them online

or you listen to the art they make. That's fucking weird. I'm allowed to say no to creepy behavior. Yes, queen! I like that a lot. Oh, I love her. But I like that. I'm allowed to say no. I think it's really amazing that she knows herself and knows her boundaries and knows what she is comfortable with and isn't comfortable with and is really,

and is happy to articulate that. Also knowing that the backlash that she's going to receive as a result, it's scary, especially at the beginning of your career. But it's kind of amazing to like come out the gates and be like, no, this is not gonna happen with me. I don't care if I lose it all. This is, I don't care.

And I think that is amazing I also saw some footage of her like shouting at a paparazzi on a red carpet And you know at times I've sat stood on a red carpet and people have said horrible things to me to get a reaction You know asked me to show a little bit more skin or like, you know, but it's like it's disgusting but I've never had the guts to tell people to f off. I mean I have actually but Not in such a sort of direct way. Yes, but always reprimanded Well also interestingly enough my husband David is a famous actor from Show called stranger things and the Marvel universe and a bunch of other things and he said to me that it has been

palpable the change in people approaching him on the street since Chapel Rowan has made those comments. So thank you Chapel Rowan for helping famous men. All over the world. They really need it. God, thank God. Our pit's going to be okay now. Chapel Rowan said that she's threatened to quit the music industry if their behaviour continues and saying that fame has, and I love this, the vibe of an abusive ex-husband. I know, I know. I get that. A hundred.

A hundred percent. On our lid. Do you know what, I think she said it all. That's a nice end. Thank you, Chapel. Thank you. And thank you, Lily, for being so sunny today. Thank you. Well, you know, you've got my Lexapro prescription to thank for that. I was going to say, should we thank my chanting? A little bit of both.

I thank my medication, just kicking in. No, but a little bit of Eastern medication from my side of the world to your Western medication and where they meet is the sun. Look what they did. Happy, happy, doy, doy, happy, happy, doy, doy. Enjoy your day, I have so much to do today so I'm gonna go. Okay, I'll see you on Monday for Listen Bitch, shall I? Oh, driving. I'll be wearing the same outfit.

Me too. Driving, do you think it'll be boring? I hope not, but you know, who knows? I've got really good themes now, so let's just get through driving and then we'll see where we can go next. Bye Lil, I love you, I'll talk to you later, you little ray of sunshine. Bye! Psst!

Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. If you're affected by anything in this episode and you want more support, you can go to bbc.co.uk forward slash action line. Brown girls do it too. You know, for most brown people, sex chat is off the cards.

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