Miss Me? - Stranger Things Have Happened... with David Harbour

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

David Harbour and Miquita Oliver discuss parenthood, the threat of AI and how they look after their mental health.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan HaskinsMiss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains very strong language, adult themes, David Harbour,

and who knows what else? davido makita did you miss me no oh welcome to a very special edition oh we're all very excited because it's David. That sounds a little less exciting, but it is exciting. It is bloody exciting. He is an actor. He's married to my best friend, Lily, who's usually doing this with me. And he's just an all-round great guy. Did I miss you?

Well, it's weird because the room you're in, I've been in, I thought, but actually you have two dark layers in each house. It wouldn't fucking turn out. So I feel like that was the most intimate we've ever been when I stepped into that side room. I was like, oh, I'm in David's mind right now. Wait, the side room? Oh, you mean my closet? Yeah, but it's not just a closet, is it? No, it's not just a closet, but I spend a lot of time in there.

Yeah, it's like a gaming lair. Yes, it's like a black lacquer box. Oh, Jesus. We're going to get into that. It's deep. Immediately, this is the kind of revelation that the BBC audience is looking for. I don't think so. No revelations here.

Yes, it's a man cave. You know, every time I do a Zoom call from there, people make fun of me. They just immediately are like, you're in a closet? I'm like, guys, I got to find someplace in this house where there isn't children or Lily Allen running around yelling at me to get down to the kitchen

and help chop potatoes. Also, it's black and this room seems to be navy, but maybe that's in response to all the print, all the Versailles print that you live in. Because Lily's gone to town on that. Has Lily told you what Marty said that our house was? No. Marty called it immediately when she saw it.

She called it the clown house. Yeah, but I kind of know what she means. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of... I kind of know what she means, too. It's kind of like mental, but just how I like Lily. Like, you know, just enough of Lily's crazy splattered all over the walls. Yeah, it's like maximalists.

Maximalist, Italian, non-fairground, like circus. It's a time. I loved my time in your house. But this is your other house. This is Atlanta that you're in. Yes. And I heard Lily describe it as our house. Yeah.

But I think she may have been here for 20 minutes. Really? Because you've had that house, surely the whole Stranger Things tenure. No, no, I only got it like six months ago because I have, I was so tired of Airbnb and Airbnb for like eight years. And I just got so tired of it.

And then I, yeah, it was crazy. And then I, I have a couple other things coming here. I had this like Marvel thing and I may have some more stuff in the future. And Atlanta is a big hub for production. So I was just like,

all right, it's time to get a little place. Why is everything in Atlanta of all places, David, I'm confused. I didn't understand Atlanta was so popping in the industry. Yeah. It's a,

I mean, it's basically a tax credit thing. The film industry moves all around America based on tax credits. It's truly mercenary, but it was like Michigan for a while and then Atlanta. And it's funny, like it goes through a lot of different phases because they'll threaten to lose the tax credit or there'll be political issues that come up in the state where people want to pull out. But in the end of the day atlanta's really built a huge

industry here over the last 15 20 years they have schools they have great crews so it's a fun place to shoot they also have like for our show it's set in the 80s and you can find little towns outside of atlanta proper that are like have radio shacks and oh my god to just have working 80s that are just stuck in that time period so it's kind of incredible have you ever been to atlanta no i don't mom says we have family there i didn't know but yeah i said we have a lot of cousins there i think i had a philandering uncle moved to atlanta and spread the name so i actually haven't been but there was like a family reunion that i didn't go to but um i did i wanted to talk to you actually about where i am because i realized i don't know

how much you know about who the hell i am or like what what i where i come from you know i know very little about you it's funny you are my wife's best friend and we have spent some time together but i'm very excited to get to know you over this podcast what today no so that's not what yeah today what no this podcast is going to be about nine hours. I have a bunch of questions. You are in Scotland, is this correct? Yeah, this is deep for me because I am half Scottish. My dad's Scottish. But my parents were a one-night stand, David, a one-night stand on Hampstead Heath.

Oh, my God. I know. And it's weird because... Oh, my God. That's so cool. Yeah, but not many people know. And it's weird because. Oh, my God. That's so cool. Yeah, but not many people know where they were conceived. Do you? I have no idea. Nor do I ever want to think about that.

That night. Anything about that night. That night in White Plains. Oh, God. In the apartment in White Plains with the real estate brokers. Kenneth is your dad's name. I know that. Oh, jeez.

Nancy was your mother? Nancy was my mother, yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Got those right. We'll start with my sordid bringing into the world. So, yeah, they liked each other.

That was quite a big deal. I didn't know that my whole life. I found that recently. They really fancied each other. They really liked each other. And they went, my mom talked't know that my whole life I found that recently they really fancied each other they really liked each other and they weren't my mom talked him into having this day on Hampstead Heath and it was sunny and they had this great day and they they capped off the day in style I created a baby but then he wasn't really in my life he is Wow so

it was just one day they just had one date one tryst this sex happened between these two people once and and I was made. Wow. Which is quite deep, isn't it? Especially in the Heath. Yeah. So, yeah, I didn't see him. And then my sister got in touch with me on Instagram about seven years ago,

and I got close to her, and then in turn got close to my dad. Now I know him. I have a brother. Met my grandma. I know all my Scottish family. But I've never been here with my mother. And we're about to all have dinner tonight. My mom and my dad and me,

and we've never all sat around a table together. So it's quite deep. Wow. You're doing that tonight? Yeah. Are you nervous? Yeah, I really am.

What do you want? What do you want from it? What's your like, what's your like good scenario and your horrible scenario? Oh, God, my nightmare is that my dad says something that offends my mother and, and her somewhat energy of the last 40 years comes up in the wrong way or something. Don't make me live it. But the right the good the good story is um that everyone gets on famously and uh we become a unit you know what i mean like that that listen actually this is quite an interesting thing to talk to you about because i have a fantastic some of you haven't met yet but a wonderful stepdad called garfield and he is the most incredible man. He came into my life when I was 11 and changed all of our lives, raised all of us, Lily, me, Alfie, Phoebe, Lauren, all of us.

Got a lot of kids. And you are a stepdad and a great one. I know that. Well, thank you. How do you like that role? I love it. It is truly the most surprising thing and enjoyable thing I've ever done. I never wanted kids. No, I kind of like that.

I, you know, I have a real fetish about like, let's end this bloodline. So the genealogy stops. So the, you know, and so I was very, you know, and I also have been like, I've lived sort of an artistic, which is in my mind, kind of a childlike life where running around and doing things, I'm kind of following my impulse a lot. And that doesn't really, you know, mesh well with children. And I think that I, I was very, you know, I was very against having kids. And then I met Lily and we dated for a little bit. And I remember there was a day when she said, I want you to meet the kids. And I was ready.

You know, we were at that like stage where we were in love and all that stuff. But I met the kids. We went to the, has Lily ever told you this? That we went to the Wolseley? I think, all I remember from the Wolseley, I think it featured a lot in your early day taking the Wolseley.

Yeah, yeah. She brought the kids there. And I remember her saying something from the Wellesley, I think it featured a lot in your early dating, the Wellesley. Yeah, yeah. She brought the kids there. And I remember her saying something to the kids like, this guy might be a big part of our lives. And I think Marnie said later on that she thought I was going to be her new assistant. Yes. And I kind of am. But I do remember meeting the kids and having breakfast with the kids and being scared because, you know. And then almost immediately, like, falling in love with them. Like, in love with them.

And feeling that thing that people talk about when they have kids about, like, wow, I want to take care of you beyond myself. And, like, I would do anything for you give you anything there was just an immediate sort of love that I had for them that was so unique yeah uh just their little innocent little faces looking up at you just confused and they were like six and seven at the time I mean you know of course they were so much younger then oh my goodness little boys yeah and that that really pushed me over the edge. I was like, wow, this is something so rare. This is like a family, kind of a pre-made family.

I don't have to have the kids myself. They don't have to carry my name. I can just help these people grow up and give them Starbucks and Taylor give them starbucks and taylor swift uh merch yeah yeah just really butter them up yeah exactly make them love you give them zara and chick-fil-a yeah i know those kids give them zara what about um how come you wanted to get married because i didn't think lily was gonna get married again or maybe i thought she might but it was suddenly you guys just seemed to be doing it. And it was like lockdown.

It was all quite weird and out of nowhere, I thought. Yeah, it was kind of out of nowhere. I mean, you know, I mean, I, oh God. I was told by my wife to be careful what I say today. This is a great intro. What parameters did she give you? I would like to know what she, where were her rules? Where did they lie?

What parameters did she give you? She said this, which I think is hilarious coming from her. She said, don't say anything too controversial. Oh, for fuck's sake. I thought, oh, that's great advice coming from you. I know, exactly right. I guess what happened was that I, you know, I was in love with her. But then we had some conversations where I realized that she really saw me in a very different way than anyone else has seen me. And she really wanted me to be who I wanted to be. And I think that's very rare

in a relationship. In fact, I think that people get into relationships and there winds up being a lot of control or a lot of sacrifice. And I think it's rare to have someone go, I see these things in you and I understand that they're important to you and I want you to do that there's something that love can be very possessive yeah and i think with her it isn't it's very genuinely and that was i was like whoa i gotta i gotta keep that near me i need to put a fucking ring on that yeah put a ring on it put a ring on it i'm so happy you did i want to get married I love the idea of marriage. I really do. Sharing all your shit with someone is an extraordinary thing to do in this life. I think Lily's very good at being a wife. And it makes me want to sort of know what that's like to even say it. Like I even like hearing you say my wife. I'm like, I actually keep thinking, who are you talking about? I'm like, oh, yes, your wife is Lily. It's just fucking weird i still sometimes feel the same way when i say it it feels confusing because it didn't

happen for me until i was what 44 or 45 so for most of my life i've never said that when people say my wife i've always sort of snickered myself so who knows what's in store but look at your life day that is what you're looking for you think think. Well, I would like everything that David Harbour's had because I feel like your 40s have been fucking extraordinary because I've had a career since I was 15 and I've had loads and loads of shit, lost everything sort of one and a half times and got it back.

Wow. And, you know, that's whatever the story of my career. Lil's more like a famous massive superstar went away came back and did what she liked having a massive moment again uh with together which is fucking beautiful but yours is like i actually did this research david this is like really caring about actor lots of theater like give a shit lots of theater and then uh some films that are big of course i saw you in revolutionary road had a bit of a crush on you i'll just say it now tiny crush that's what i heard lily told me that very early on no she told you too early i thought but that's so adorable it's just just a particular sex scene in a car with Kate Winslet.

I was like, who's this guy? Who's this guy? And it's funny because your character is not even like mad sexy. Well, I love that you thought that was cool because I remember after doing that scene, a producer coming up to me and going, David, that was so great. It was so sad.

And I was like, okay. I mean, I didn't think there'd be two british girls you know going like yeah i want some of that depression no no not too this is this is literally me on my own lily wasn't even aware of you i was so when she said i'm dating this guy i was like it's the fucking guy from the car sex scene of revolutionary road of all the people for my friends to be dating anyway then you go stratospheric with stranger things and then marvel and now just like it feels like jumping from kind of massive thing to another

i don't i don't want to interview about being an actor but i just genuinely wanted to talk to you about what it's like to have all that have and meet this love and become a stepdad like your 40s have been nuts because you are at the end of your 40s now aren't you 49 yes yes thank you for reminding me yes I'm at the end of my 40s and yeah I mean the 40s have been I guess the best uh decade professionally i mean it's funny like things you know i don't want to sound like um ungrateful because of course like it is the greatest thing in the world to have all this success and all this stuff and also there's a piece of me that is still genuinely like this weird child artist who wants to be utterly free and strange and i think that starts to dissipate i remember like i have an acting coach who when he started to see the

success of stranger things was very sad because he was like now i know you'll have to be an adult right because of the the business world that you're in. And there is something about that where it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a loss. I remember there's this, you remember the movie Basquiat with Jeffrey Wright. And there's a great scene in there where Willem Dafoe is painting the walls of the studio where they're going to hang the Basquiat art. And he has a conversation with Basquiat where he says like,

I'm a painter too. And Basquiat's kind says like I'm a painter too and Basquiat's kind of like oh yeah really and he's like yeah I've never really had much success but it's allowed me a chance to develop and I remember thinking when I watched the movie oh god that's so sad that old guy and now I've been a perspective where I'm like oh it's so interesting because I do kind of get his point like when because I didn't have success really like big success until I was 40 and it really did allow me to really fall in love with the thing that I do as opposed to the success that it gave.

Yeah. And I think that like people like you and Lily, when you've had like a lot of success young, it must be hard to parse out whether or not it's the thing you love or it's the attention you get from the thing you love. Oh my God. Thank you.

Yes. God god thank you yes gosh thank you that's really true and i wouldn't be able to answer i'm not sure which one it is but you're still you seem speechless yes speechless how insightful you are i've hit a nerve no because i've been thinking about it a lot david like turning 40 i'm just like oh my god what the fuck has this career been like my life and that's quite late to kind of look back at something that's happened for 25 years ago well this has been quite strange i'm happy that you're talking about developing like as an artist as someone that in their craft in their creation because I did text you about that AI stuff that I wanted to talk to you about

because I genuinely feel I don't even want to get into kind of like the fears I have of of Sam um what is his surname Sam Altman oh yeah the king of AI and chat gpt which is a whole new kind of level of ai which is uh how would you explain it david how the hell do we explain what it is oh chat gpt i mean chat gpt if you've never have you ever used it no i'm against it in all ways but you've never explored i mean you have to kind of know your enemy yes true no you've never done. I mean, you have to kind of know your enemy. Yes, true. No, you've never done it. Okay. No, I was going to get to know the enemy through you today. Yeah, you tell me.

Okay. I mean, I'll tell you a little about the enemy. I've rarely used it too, but I did have a funny moment where I was walking home with Lily in Brooklyn and I was supposed to do a benefit for this actor, Billy Crudup, where he was receiving an award from a theater. And I was walking home and I was supposed to do a benefit for this actor, Billy Crudup, where he was receiving an award from a theater. And I was walking home and I was supposed to do it the next day. And she was like, have you written a speech? And I said, no, I thought I'd just kind of wing it.

And she was horrified. She was like, oh my God, this is going to be a big thing. And I was like, what do I do? I stay up all night and write this speech? She was like, you could just type it into chat, GBT. And I was like, what? That's so Lily.ly no she showed me and i typed in write a speech about billy crudup um winning a theater award a lifetime theater

achievement award in the speech style of david harbour and add a few jokes. And it banged out a three-page speech for me. Was it good, though? Did it kill it? Was it brilliant? No, it was pretty terrible. But it was a speech. And it did have some of my, what people would consider my mannerisms or ways of speech. It did have a couple, it executed the task. So you can, mean apparently with this thing you can type in kind of anything you want i think now the interesting thing that's happening too are people it can be your friend oh i think there are new ai versions where you can tell chat gbt that you want it to respond as a woman or as like your best friend or as I'm talking to Adam Driver or something.

And it can emulate those people. I saw the other day, there was something where you have like a little necklace that you can be out hiking and you can press the necklace and you'll get a text from your AI friend going like, look at that view. And like, wow, so glad we hiked up here together so yeah it's like

another entity no i think that is getting into such fucking dangerous territory okay tell me why i was worried about it ending um creativity and creation because there's already this really depressing need to rely on an algorithm and an algorithm let's be honest if we were a party would you want to chat to the algorithm like what the fuck would the algorithm have to say probably the four standard questions that people think are the things you say at a party do you know what i mean it's like nuance is part of life and hugely part of creation so is risk and i feel like every idea has to be, has to have a machine now that says, yeah, that's going to be a good idea. You don't fucking know if something's going

to be a good idea and that's okay. As artists, as anyone really, I think we have to always keep making regardless of what outcome could be. You know, they have this thing in TV now, David, called second screen pitching. So people are asking for ideas that people will kind of ignore. Where are we? So they can be on their phone. Yeah, so they can really be looking at their phone. And it's like, let's not cater for that. Let's run to the hills from that in the other direction. Rather than kind of, you know, like adhering to the terrible shit that's starting to happen, we should be like, going in the other direction, not figuring out new ways to enable it. What you're saying is very true. It's like, I guess the concept behind AI is that it is studying

what's been created and then using an algorithm to see what people like to create more of that, as opposed to genuine creativity, which is like, this has never been done before, but I have an intuitive response of what I might like to see. And so, yes, the algorithm is behind the eight ball. The other thing that I think is very interesting about human beings, which I don't know that they'll ever be able to emulate in AI, is that we die. Like we have about 80 years. I hope I have 80 years. But I hope a bit more, maybe a bit more. But the AI, I don't think it'll ever really understand the idea that time is limited. And that in my mind, that creates a generator and it creates

something called care. Like I care about spending time with my stepkids, because I know I'm not going to always be able to spend time with my stepkids. And they're not always going to be kids. But so the idea of death, I don't think we'll ever be able to program. Yeah, that's so weird that you said that, because I was not joking. The other day, because my grandma lives with my mom and dad now. And she's 86. And I cannot leave a room without hugging her and kissing her because my friend just lost her grandma and we all lose our grandparents, of course.

And I was just like, it's not a joke. I won't be able to kiss this face one day. Come here, nanny. Take my love. I suddenly thought if we all lived forever, we'd live so badly. We'd be such terrible bastards. What are we?

Just not looking after ourselves, not looking after other people, but also we wouldn't care about the things we do in the same way. You're so right. Death will kill AI. That's it. Well, I mean, but I do think this,

like I think in the future, AI, like a McDonald's hamburger, will be able to perfect the gooey, sugary thing that turns your brain off that you love. That we all love to watch dumb YouTube videos about whatever stupid vortex hole I'm in at the time. Okay. And I think that the AI will get extremely good at that. But I think that there will always be a human. So art will become more niche,

but I think that there will still be, after you've had all that gooey cake, there will be a need for, I want to go like see a movie. I want to go listen to a song that somebody wrote, like a human being wrote. You will hunt for substance. That's my hope.

I like that dream, David. That's how we're going to end this part. We're going to take a little breaky breaky. I don't know what you're going to do. How much time is it? Is it like eight hours or something? I got a bunch of things to type in the chat. GPT.

No, I'll see you in a minute, darling. All right. See you in a minute. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you.

Rogers. welcome back to an extremely unbelievably fucking special edition of miss me or or the episode you hate it no i'm actually i'm actually having a really nice time it's really nice oh thank you it's really nice because usually you're just on the left of my FaceTime with Lily. Wandering in the background like- Naked David. Looking for a charger. Naked David looking for a charger. Naked David looking for a charger.

Where did I put my charger? So this feels a bit more like, okay, this is who you are. I'm getting to know who you are. But I'm in Scotland. You're in Atlanta. But over in, just in my side of the world, I honestly don't know how else to say it. The world is on fire. And I was actually in the reception of the hotel that was staying out yesterday. And it was like, it actually felt

like a kind of parody of a film. Every story on the news was worse and worse and more fire and more violence. And then from everything that's going on in the UK, then going all the way around the world, the same kind of violence, fire, everything just too much for me. But the story that stood out for me was the boxing story at the Olympics because it just actually,

in contrast to what we were just saying, there just still seems to be so much hate and wrath towards people. And when it gets incited it turns into something really ugly really quickly in the same way that these riots are happening over here these horrendous race riots that are happening in the country david i can't even tell you they're just like they're dragging people out of cars and beating them and attacking mosques and just tearing this fucking country apart and my mom actually said this is the country that i grew up in makia this is what it was like in the 70s in this country racist violence everywhere and and danger everywhere but i i do feel like the story

that we were said that we wanted to talk about the boxing in the Olympics I felt like there was a lot of race behind that a lot of dark old familiar shit coming up yet again so it's Imani Khalif who she's a boxer she's been boxing for a while and she hit her opponent and within two rounds I think the opponent was out and the opponent said that it wasn't fair and that she'd never been hit that hard in her life and has actually since apologized and said that it wasn't fair and that she'd never been hit that hard in her life. And has actually since apologized and said that she would shake Imani's hand and was just very upset about her Olympic journey being over. But the press and certain other people have taken this and just run wild with it and put this woman through the most horrific dissection of who she is, her character, her sexuality, her gender. And it's actually been quite horrendous to watch. It's shameful what we've put this woman through. Has it been, the story's been in America as well?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, all over the place. And I think that, I mean, the whole world is sort of connected now with Twitter and all these social media. I think that the thing that's happening in New York country too with the riots that relates to this is there's just a ton of misinformation, right? And there's a ton of manipulation. And, you know, we sort of came up against it years ago with Cambridge Analytica, where you have these big groups of people going on social media trying to manipulate the conversation. I mean, at that point, Cambridge Analytica was creating government change in,

you know, countries in Africa and stuff. It was inciting voter manipulation, things like that. And I think that we're seeing the same thing here. I mean, I know that there was a lot of AI generated images that sparked those riots that were not real images. This is it. It's all based on misinformation and lies and but it hasn't stopped when the truth has come out it's just incited all this anger and hate that's bubbling there anyway which we all know it's like the beast has been awoken and you have to kind of face the fact that we live in a country that is just full of racism still well it's just in the corners waiting to come out and i I think in the deeper sense,

I just think there's so much anxiety in the world today. I think because of the information, like I don't know if I should be feeling as much anxiety as I am, but I certainly do. I mean, and it's these things that are, I've heard it described as hyper events. They are inconceivable or unprecedented is the word that I've heard. So things like climate change, like we're down here in Atlanta shooting,

and I've been shooting here for 10 years. And we're basically shooting now in Bermuda. Like we're shooting in a tropical environment where we have hurricanes roll through every day for about two hours and the heat is over 100 degrees so we can't shoot no way we're having to go to things called cover sets we have to go into the stage and shoot things we were supposed to shoot outside and so you know you think like oh it's a bad summer and then i have this annoying feeling this deep anxiety that it's climate change and i think a lot of the, you know, immigration stuff,

the refugee stuff is all related to that hyper event. And we all know that no one's doing anything to make it better. Yeah. And we all know where it's headed. And I think that that anxiety and the desire for some sort of control to your own environment when you have these hyper unprecedented events leads you toward dark paths of like racism or violence, just ways in which you're trying to contain. Fear. Yeah, fear. Exactly. Yeah. exactly yeah and i mean and then what you have is you have this technology this that allows people

to just disseminate whatever the hell they feel on huge wide platforms totally irresponsibly and then are not held accountable for it at all no in other words i can say like you know men shouldn't be in women's boards and show a picture of a woman and not have to apologize later for that or get come up. And it's just the news cycle expects this. And like we're supposed to be immune to this or something. But I still feel like every time it happens, it's like a violent offense. Yeah. People with large platforms disseminate misinformation.

There's just so much anger david like but i actually think that i know that i act badly when i'm scared i'm talking about this on a micro level and whenever i'm acting like a real dickhead i'm like what's wrong and it's always because some sort of fear so it's like just everyone's fear manifesting into just into rage. Yeah. How do you look after your mind? Have you got anything you could? Because I like to skip for and for Americans, that's jump rope.

Okay. I mean, that's how I keep back. Yeah. I mean, it's a medicine of sorts. You know, I take medication. It's just because it's more approved by the FDA than yours is doesn't mean it's any different. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we all need a little something to help us deal with this crap because i've suffered in the past a long time i was diagnosed when i was young as bipolar like in your early 20s right yeah 20 i think it was 26 um i was two years sober i discovered something about myself it usually happens i, to people in their 20s.

But I had gotten sober. I was a big drinker. And that had been sort of self-medicating, I guess, because when I got sober is actually when the problem started. Oh, of course. They had space to come out and unravel. Yeah, yeah. I think the alcohol sort of dampened my overly sensitive response to this world. And then when I didn't have that

alcohol, you know, I sort of had these mood swings that were very wild. And so I struggled for about till I was 39, really with pretty serious bipolar episodes. And I've been in and out of institutions, and I've been medicated in various forms for years. And then I found talk therapy was the thing that cured me. Really cured? Wow. You know, it's not talked about now. The medical model is firmly established in the mental health industry. But there was a time when there was this woman called Frida Fromm Reichman, who created the Chestnut Lounge back in America in the 1900s. And it was, there was a woman who wrote a book called I Never Promised You a Rose Garden, who's

schizophrenic. And Frida Fromm Reichman, with two years of talk therapy, cured her of schizophrenia. Wow. It does speak somewhat to what we're talking about in terms of the isolation of everyone and the tribalism that's going on. There's something about connecting with another human being, being listened to for your experience and being loved and appreciated by that. Even if this person is a doctor and a professional, there's something deeply beautiful about the therapeutic experience. I think we could learn a lot from it in this world that even people that very much we disagree with, that if there is some compassion and love, you know, you get a lot of benefit from it. And for me, it was, yeah, going into deep psychoanalysis for a couple of years.

And I feel like understanding my own narrative and being comfortable with my own narrative. understanding my own narrative and being comfortable with my own narrative. There was something about the denial of myself for years that kept me sick, in a sense. And I think, to a certain degree, it's in a macro sense, what I'm talking about with the world. It's like we have these denial of these truths that course through us with anxiety. And so we just act out. And I was doing the same thing. So once I accept those things about myself, and another person looks at me and loves me for those things, like the world opens up and I stop not having to be this thing. So I'm a big proponent of talk therapy. I still do it all the time.

I'm a big proponent also of art. Like for me, I'm a big proponent of personal narratives and narratives that, you know, I'm lucky that I'm able to act. But I also like to write stories, bad stories, paint pictures, draw pictures, bad pictures. I think that the creation, the expression of self and the interpretation of the world through artistic media is very healing for me. It keeps me sane. But you know what? You just made me, I could really listen to you talk all day i really could something very soothing about your voice i know i put people to sleep yeah it's a bit lullaby yeah i feel so great so if you've fallen asleep

now wake up makita's about to say something i was gonna say just that connectivity thing i think is true because it's like we are all connected as in like the individual experience of oneself and the way the world works is usually an expression of the individual's experience because everything's fucking connected and individuals create hyper events and these huge moments so it's like it's literally as simple as like at the moment it feels like everything's Everything's fucking connected. And individuals create hyper events and these huge moments. So it's like, it's literally as simple as like, at the moment, it feels like everything's connected by all the wrong things.

And it's like, we just need to shift back into being connected to all those other things. Yeah, I mean, there's something, you know, I had a buddy who was in my fraternity in college and he went off to become a Buddhist monk with Thich Nhat Hanh. And I would go and visit him at the monastery outside LA and hang out with the monks. By the way, they would like catch black widow spiders with their hands and rattlesnakes

and like, let them go. Cause they're not allowed to kill anything. Insane. I was like, I am not sleeping here, but I'll hang out for the day. But he talks all the time what tignan talks about is something called interbeing which is just that we are all just kind of one thing and i mean his way of dealing with it is to have compassion for himself and then to try to be the light that shines as opposed to proselytizing to everyone else it's like you just try to live your life in a beautiful way that's admirable and people look up to the light as opposed to having to shout at people yes and tell them that what they're doing is wrong that that that isn't a compassionate response because we're all lost

and we're all suffering yeah everyone's fucking making up as they go along there's like rastafarianism they just say i went to a nayabingi ceremony like up on a hill with this beautiful rasta community in antigua it was a very special few days and they had this you know the drums were like dun dun dun dun and they were like that is how you live your life do good do good wow yeah and it's like even if i drop a can in like my boss man off the shelf i'm like pick it up do good and it's like tiny tiny tiny but then big big big like the way i live in the world i hope i do good i'm gonna remember that when i'm seven hours into my youtube binge do do something better do good the heartbeat do good david do good i hear that drum beat i wish if we ever do another miss

me episode we'll really go into that wherever it the fuck it is you go on these YouTube journeys. Because I'd like to know. You don't want to know? It's my own little secret. Oh, God, I hope they don't look up my internet history someday. I was going to say. Jesus. Careful.

But everyone's internet black hole searches is, you know, unique to themselves. So I'd like to know. You're crazy. And I'll tell you about my crazy. We really must end this, though. But I could chat to you forever but you know what we do actually um we like know each other we can do this in real life without mics and stuff wow we could just like no one listening that's uh exciting or less maybe a little less maybe a little i like the attention i'm gonna see if i listen bitch actually you're going to come to Listen Bitch Listen Bitch

The theme is Lily Allen Lily Allen set by Lily Allen Well done wife Thank you David thank you for marrying my best friend

Oh thank you Makita that was really fun it was great to talk to you Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen Thank you, Makita. That was really fun. It was great to talk to you. Sometimes you're soaring sky high upwards. And sometimes you fall face first and flat into the tabloids. Famously. Famously. Get listening to Famously. And experience the exhilarating highs and dizzying lows of your favourite stars.

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