Miss Me? - The Beautiful and Scammed

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss the decline of bands, moon seeds and scamming.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. Welcome to Origins with me, Kush Jumbo, the show with the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. Origins is a conversation about my guests' early inspirations and growing up. Guests this season include Dame Anna Wintour, Poppy Delevingne, Pete Capaldi, and Golda Ra'Shaval, aka Queen Charlotte in Bridgerton. I only kind of discovered my sexuality

when I went to drama school. Join me every week to hear where it all began. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Origins with Kus Jumbo. truths because it's that kind of week. Hello! Hello! Hello you! Hi! Hi! How's it going? I'd say chaos and mayhem in my house today. Ooh, chaos and mayhem. Oh God. Well, you have to tear everything apart to put it back together.

And I have taken everything out of my office and put it all in my dressing room. But then we're also clearing all the clothes to take to the charity shops. So it's just like, it's like the storm before the calm. And it's really stressing me out. I'm really stressed out. I was like, this is why I'm uptight and have everything really neat and ordered all the time. Because I feel like I don't know who I am.

That's nice. I feel like that too, but it's not really about a room. It's my entire life. I think a lot of people are feeling a bit all over the shop and a bit erupted. I don't know, I think we should all stop trying to be happy. Yeah, do you think it's a bit of that like end of the summer, got a face getting back to work and the new year, even though it's not new year. Yeah, but I'm okay with summer being over. I really am. That's fine. Like, it's done. But I just feel like shit for other reasons. I don't know why. It's just one of those weeks. Recalibration, blues.

Mmm. Yeah. And, you know, we had a funeral. We buried my cousin's grandmother. It was the most beautiful ceremony, Lily. I've never heard such beautiful music at a funeral because Neymar, my cousin, whose grandmother it was, knows her jazz and is a composer. And it was just beautiful. And then also we had Tyson and her new baby there. And that really helped actually.

It kind of cemented that circle of life feeling, which I really needed. So I think everyone in the family has just been feeling very sad. Yeah. It's been quite a lot of shifty shifty. What about your side? Yeah exactly. I just feel I'm just like in turmoil at the moment. What do you do when you're in turmoil these days? How do you help yourself with that? At the moment I'm going to lots of NA and AA meetings trying to solidify my recovery. What else do I do? I want to just lie in bed all day. I told you to just do that. I know, but I don't think it's very good for me.

I need to sort of be up and about and doing stuff and moving my body. So I'm trying to do that as well. And cooking, you know, I really enjoy cooking. Yeah, especially in that nice kitchen. You made it for cooking, that kitchen. Very well designed kitchen for cooking I'll get on to that if I listen bitch what cooking oh interior interior

yes yeah well I'll be that will perk you up on Monday yeah sorry everyone for such a depressing start to the show everyone out but I have to be honest about the feeling in the air also don't about New York but it's suddenly very cold here we've had lots of nice elongated summers where it's just been a great summer and then September's also been boiling hot. September 1st in England. Hang on, in England it was like shit.

The summer didn't start till like, Exactly. It was really late. This summer's been shit and then winter came on the 1st of September. Is that okay? Maybe that's why everyone's feeling crap there as well is that didn't feel like you got on a long enough summer Yeah, yeah, probably everyone's just feeling a little bit like oh, okay this now, but it's fine. It's just thank God for life It's good to be alive. It's good to have a bit of reflection on like, you know

The fact that it really is good to be alive and I'll say it to you too. Thank God for life, Lil. You're not there yet. Let me know. I'm really not there. We'll talk about the Mercury Awards instead and then maybe we'll go back to thank God for life. Okay, see if it gets you the mood. Because I didn't even notice the Mercury Awards happening and you live in New York and you brought it up with me and I was like I did see on iPlayer And I thought it must be some preview thing because usually people bang on about the Mercuries in this country Like everyone talks about it and who won and who's up and just like passed me by

Yeah, it's interesting isn't it how relevant or irrelevant these awards have become completely saying that you know Great band whose album I haven't listened to, English Teacher, took the prize this year, 25,000 pound Mercury Prize. I've never heard of them. Is that ridiculous? And their first band from outside of London to win in 10 years.

I know. Which is quite astonishing, actually. Well, actually, they brought up loads of realities of being skinned and being in a band and trying to start a life like that. And there's such a lack of funding and support for musical education. And I think there is,

we're getting into a slightly tricky place. Like so many industries where only wealthy people can have these creative pursuits. I was trying to think about maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, if it looked starkly different for us. And I suppose there was like the richer bands and the poorer bands, which makes for a diverse, exciting, creative musical landscape.

But if we only have Keen and Coldplay, then I'm not... Two great bands, by the way. Yes. No, I mean, I hate them both. I mean, I don't know about you, I find middle-class white boys really fascinating. No, I just want to hear about their struggles

all day fucking long. Their sorrows. I don't think that's the thing. I don't think Covallé really talked about their struggles, did they? They're not talking about their struggles. They're not talking about their financial struggles, no, but they are talking about their emotional sorrow, you know. All the emotional sorrow of others near to them.

Fix You is a brilliant song. Oh yes, and it was for Gwyneth, wasn't it? When Bruce Paltrow died, I always thought that was real, like, oof, real love. Yeah, so there were those kind of bands, but then there was also, like, who was, I guess, like, Dizzy, the Streets, the Libertines, no, they're posh. I don't know how posh they are. Carl is, no they're posh.

I don't know how posh they are. Carl is. Maybe Carl is posh. Either way. But then, you know, we had bands like Oasis and Pulp and I think like, you know, Arctic Monkeys. Yeah, but they're all from ages ago now. So apparently what they're saying with, you were telling me as well,

that there are a huge lack of bands just in general, not even just the skint ones, just bands. I don't know if that's true. I think there are lots of bands. I just don't think that they have any prominence. And that could be for a number of reasons. Like streaming has taken practically all of the money out of the music industry in terms of it being filtered back through to the artists.

And if you can't make money from your product, then how can you sustain a career, you know, how can it pay for your life? Yeah. I was listening to, listening to the rest is entertainment about the lack of bands around and people attributing it to lack of funding, grassroots level, there's not very many sort of like government funded incentives or programs for people to indulge

in their creative activities. But I also think that a lot of it has to do with social media and the fact that social media platforms are really geared towards the individual. They are not geared towards bands or collectives or collaboratives. Yes, I know what you mean actually. And I think that's not only reflected in bands,

it's also like comedians. Like, you know, when we grew up, there was like, well, a bit before us, my dad was part of it, you know, the comic strip and there was French and Saunders and Harry and Paul and Vic Reeves and Bob Mortimer. Like there was duos, but social media really doesn't lend itself to two people or more. No, because social media is about everyone on the hunt

for themselves and as much successful one's own self. God, that's really terrifying. To actually break it down like that, that does make a lot of sense because it is the ego, the solo game, social media. And also it's embarrassing. So, no, as a band, do you really want to be embarrassing together? Do you want to get in a room and talk about, you know,

feeding your narcissism as a collective? No, you don't. Everyone wants to be cool in a band, right? So like talking about how you're going to grow your audience is like fucking humiliating. If you are a person who deals in like feelings and emotions and trying to convey those emotions into some kind of creative end, like the idea of like reducing that to like a TikTok dance or you know how you're going to appeal to like a

moisturizer brand in order to it's fucking humiliating. Yeah I watched the um I watched both Blurred documentaries recently the new one to the end and then I watched the brilliant one where they uh came back in their early 40s nowhere left to run both brilliantly made and actually in the early one, there's all these flashbacks and the embarrassing thing that bands have to do in the 90s is kind of like, what are they called? I should know this. I work in television. Like, you know, like, hi, we're Blur or hi, I'm Alex, the tall one from Blur. And it's this little section of it. And I'm like, Oh God, I remember when bands had to do it. But the whole point was you'd look

like you didn't like, it would always be like, hi, we're Blur, and we obviously don't wanna be here. The people that wanted to be here would be like, hi, we're the Bagstreet Boys. Like lots of speaking in unison when you're a band. But by the way, sorry to interrupt, the bands were being told to do those post-success. Now, in order to succeed, you have to be able to do that

in order to get the attention of the people who are going to potentially invest in you and your product. So imagine Jarvis Cocker sitting there in like 1990, thinking about like how they're gonna go on a Spotify playlist or like how they're gonna get, you know, Dove to like sponsor their first gig. I don't know, it just seems nonsense. Yes, and also with press, that's tedious and boring.

Looks like we need people to be... Everyone's all like, I don't want this. I don't want to do a day of interviews. Oh, God, press. But that's someone else asking them to promote themselves. Instagram is saying quite literally, here I am promoting myself. I think we've literally just figured out why there are no bands. Well done, Lilly. Very good.

Never thought about it like that. I will also just say, in terms of the money thing, my foray into the foot world has been quite interesting to me. And I don't know if I brought this up before, but it blows my mind that I can have eight and a half million listeners, monthly listeners on Spotify and earn less money from those people consuming a product that is 20 years

worth of work. And I can make more money from 500 people looking at pictures of my feet. So there's a lot of that creative endeavor, doesn't it? No, I mean, it really fucking does. It's like, what have we done? We've completely devalued what is important. Yeah. We really have, like, it's an absolute travesty.

Well, if you have that on the sort of greater side of like success and incentive to be a successful artist, if you come to the grassroots part of it Ezra Collective when they won the Mercury last year, beautiful album, they said you know one thing they wanted to, the people they wanted to thank was their youth centre that had people volunteering for free to teach the music and to show them that it was important and to continue to be creative. I have seen every single community center and youth center taken down by who knows who in my area and surrounding areas. They don't exist anymore. And then when I go and do skipping classes with schools, music isn't even part

of the curriculum. So in every side, we're saying that there's no value in this. And of course that will affect everyone, what we put out creatively and who's putting it out and how they can. I must say on the good side on this, the lead singer of the English teacher who won, they said, because they were like skin and they made this album on their sofas, probably parents house or whatever and they said that they were funded by something called Music Leads and another alternative fund so those things are still out there but look how important they are. Those people have just won the Mercury and also must add the Mercury is financial gain, you get 25 grand.

We have a clip from a lady in a band. She'll get it. She'll get it like no other. Hi, Lillian Makita. My name is Leila and I'm in a band called Shrimp Eyes. We've been recording and playing together for the last couple of years now. It's very, very expensive as a hobby and it is a hobby. We can't support ourselves on the band. We've all got day jobs. Some of the biggest outgoings for us are stuff like kit, buying instruments, travel is a massive one. Most of the gigs that we play, the fee that we get doesn't even cover the travel to and from the venue. So we're always kind of making a loss. Another big thing is practice rooms and recording spaces. Obviously, we all live in flats around London,

so we can't just practice and record stuff where we live because our neighbours would be really annoyed with us. So we have to rent stuff like practice rooms, recording spaces, which generally are like a £100 a pop for a session on the cheaper end. So if we're wanting to practice like once a week, which is usual, we're having to put that out of our own pocket. There's kind of no way that our earnings could actually cover that. We have got like a kitty that when we do get paid for stuff, we'll put all put it into a kitty so that when we need to buy something, we can generally just try and buy it out of there, but there's never enough money in there so we always end up subsidizing it ourselves. So most of what we do is self-funded, which I think is the same for most bands, especially bands that are unsigned and aren't really

supported by any kind of labels or companies that are putting money behind them so yeah it's difficult but we do it because it's really fun and so I kind of try and treat it as you know some people spend money on playing sports or going on holiday and like we spend money on doing bands so if you think of it like that it's kind of easier to justify I guess but yeah it is very difficult. Yeah it's really sad because also I don't even think that people consume it as a hobby. My God. So it will pay for it as consumers.

So I remember being on holiday a few weeks ago with my cousins who, you know, don't have much money at all. And we were talking about succession and the three of them, you know, all want to, you know, get into the arts. They're all very interested in, um, you know, film and TV, and that's what they want to get into eventually. And none of them had seen succession. And I was like, wow, I can't believe that you profess to be so into this world. Yet you haven't seen something that I would consider to be such an important

part of like what's going on in terms of writing and performance and storytelling. And they were all like, yeah, but it costs too much to watch it. I was gonna say it's on Sky, yeah. Oh my God. And I was just like, this is so sad. Like, you know, and they all smoke cigarettes and vapes.

So they'll spend money on their fags and they'll spend money on booze and drink and clothes, but they don't value art as something that they want to invest in for their souls. Is that because they feel that they see lots of creative ideas in places like social media and that kind of fills that hole for them? Yeah, like you feel like you have consumed it because you see some clips on Instagram it's like no. It's so wrong it's so wrong it's like the other

like literally yesterday I was doing some fucking doom scrolling and I was like just fuck off I was like you know what you are a distraction a complete and utter distraction to like actual thought and creativity. Absolutely. But let's not go on an Instagram, man. No one's got time for that. That would be giving them even more power. Can I just show you this?

Lil, this is me, me? This is me. This is my mom and Nana and Uncle Sean and Uncle Gareth and Uncle Bruce in the band they were in in the 80s, Rip Rig and Panic. They also had no moolah and needed to do all the things that this lady was saying. I was thinking like, yeah, like get rehearsal rooms,

go on tour, blah, blah, blah. So like, what was the difference then? Well, I think there was like a bit more hope, you know, and you didn't have to be like Taylor Swift successful in order to sustain a career. You just needed, you know, a few thousand fans and you could live off of that. Now you can't.

So I think maybe that's the difference. Like now it just feels pretty hopeless. I feel like we're all like ants. Please stay creative world, it's really important. Working towards the great bank accounts of Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Drake and Bad Bunny. God! That's what we're all doing here, propping up those guys. Do you want to plant a moon seed? What the fuck? Just stay with me. Because you know what really helps in times like this? A bit of magic. I'm not joking. I nearly said you

were paid. Spirituality. Absolutely. You have to remember that the world is bigger than anything that's upsetting either of us right now. The world, like the universe and you've been to places like British Columbia when you said it was so awe-inspiring that you saw things that reminded you like we are ants and at one we are huge so it's time to like connect those two things and the moon really helps. So I'll send you a little thing from Phoebe and basically you have to on the new moon so you've missed this

one but you can do it still. You plant the seed that you want to grow. So what do you want to be and feel and embody for the next, till the full moon? I am a cucumber this season. Wow. Nothing to do with last week's Listen Bitch, I hope. I am growing my own penis on my balcony, my own use. No, no, it's about clarity.

What would I be? Yeah, exactly, what you want to be, what you want to embody. Like I've also been, some summers I've been like a ripe peach, like just bite into me, juicy, fresh, pink, ready to go. But you can be anything you want. And it can be a flower, a tree, a vegetable or a fruit.

Maybe I'll be a radish. Spicy and sturdy. Hmm, yeah. Thick skinned. Yeah, thick skinned. I think I'm already a radish. I was gonna say, let's talk about your hair. So I had hair weekend.

And I know you think you get it, but you just don't fucking know about it at all as black woman how long it takes to do your hair. Depending on what style you have. I do know how long it takes because I've sat with you when you've been getting your hair done before. I've never had to like endure it myself, but I do know how long it takes.

I've also like not been able to get hold of you because you're getting your hair done. That's quite annoying. I can't talk to people when I'm doing it So I have like what a hundred plaits in my hair and I yeah It takes 10 hours to undo them and then 10 hours to repack my hair with my beautiful Shakina who lives Down the road and she comes and does it fucking hell so 20 hours So do you do the unbraiding one day and then the braiding the next? Yeah, what do you just go straight through crew? No, I can't I guess just because they've got I have no patience So do you do the un-braiding one day and then the braiding the next? Yeah. Or do you just go straight through crew?

No, I can't. It's just because you've got, I have no patience. We're talking about unpicking a hundred plaits. It's like you have to get spiritual because otherwise I will lose my mind. Spiritual, Netflix series, maybe some wine and yeah. Then I'm like, let's do this and And then the next day I do it all anyway, but you have changed your hair and it is quite reddishy. Yeah, I changed my hair.

It's quite my, you know, biannual cry for help. Love it. It's a really good one. Whoops, she's done a color. Let's check in. You know what, I'm not joking. Today I was like, I've spoken to her twice now, not mentioned that I've noticed her hair has changed,

and then I suddenly thought, fuck, why has she done her hair red? I did think it. Is that a metaphor? Yeah, what she's saying. For our relationship. She's crying out for help and I haven't asked her, is she okay?

No, she has asked me if I'm okay, we've been speaking. Yes, but your hair looks really nice, I really like it. Thank you. I just, you know what, because I was blonde for a play that I did a couple of years ago, or a year ago. And the whole time I was blonde, I felt very uncomfortable with being blonde. And I wanted to, you know, dark hair is always, you know, what I was born with and what I've... Anyway, I went back to dark and I just felt like it aged me somehow. You know I love you with dark.

And so I wanted it to be lighter, but I didn't want it to be blonde, and I did really enjoy the redhead phase that I went through in sort of the beginning part of this year, and so I was just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna go back to being red again. Love it. And I have done that.

I love it. And I like it, I'm happy with it. I think I am going to name you a radish. You are a radish. Okay. All right, Zeddie. Okay, I am going to name you a radish. You are a radish. Okay. Alright, Zenni. Okay, I better go. My dog's barking.

Why? Are we having a break? Yes, absolutely. Let's have a break. Welcome to Origins with me, Kush Jumbo, the show with the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. Origins is a conversation about my guests' early inspirations and growing up. Guests this season include Dame Anna Winter, Poppy Delevingne, Pete Capaldi and Golda Raishaval, aka Queen Charlotte in Bridgerton.

I only kind of discovered my sexuality when I went to drama school. Join me every week to hear where it all began. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Origins with Kuss Jumbo. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Miss Me with me, Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. Yeah. And yeah, it's just us two. It's no one else. Just this really.

No one else in the room. Yes, I called you to let you know that I had been scammed. I don't even like saying it. Actually I was doubly scammed and this is more of a, what's that show called where they would like, like Watchdog? Yeah. Watchdog. This is our Watchdog section of the show. I actually watched it when I was doing Gogglebox last series with mum, we had to watch this show that was called like, Scam Police. These people like, go out in vans and like,

send them out. They're like, okay, it's Doris, number 98, whatever road. And then they go and they're like, not, not, not. Are you on the phone? You're on the phone to a scammer, Doris. And then they get on the phone to the scammer and the scammers get very angry. I'm sure. And I remember thinking, God, what bastards are like keeping this old lady on the phone? I am not an old lady, but I was completely duped. And the reason is, is because they sent something that was a scam to me and then called me a few days later to tell me they were there to help me.

And that's what makes me feel so, the whole thing so fucked up. Yeah, oh my god, so horrible. Can you tell me a little bit more about it? Like, what was the initial scam? This is for everyone, okay? A royal mail something, I can't remember if it was text or email saying, you need to reschedule your delivery,

and can you pay two pounds? And I was like, why am I paying to reschedule a delivery, but I just paid it. From then on they have your information, then they give you a few days and then the same people who sent that call you and say I'm from your bank and have you had this dodgy thing come through?

And I was like, yes I have. Now I was actually in a, not a meeting but I was having a work day at home with two other people in the house, in my sitting room and this guy was on speakerphone. None of us thought it was dodgy, although now I'm like, oh my God, he didn't take me through security. Oh my God, he didn't, da da da.

Oh my God, that's why he kept me on the phone for an hour. Like, he kept me on the line. Anyway, he then said- But hang on, also, when you say take you through security, like, nobody really should be calling you and asking you to take, because I had this over the summer, I had like this company called,

they're still texting me now. Well, you scammed recently, Lil. Well, no, because I didn't. You didn't fall for it. So it says, hello, we need to speak with you about personal business matter, call this number with a reference. And they called me and they're like,

hello, it's here, we need to talk to you about personal business matter, very pressing business matter. And I was like, okay, I was in Italy. I was like, right, go on then. And they're like, well, because of the nature of this business matter, it's very confidential. So I'm gonna need to just take you

through some security questions. Can I have your full name, date of birth and first line of your address? And I was like, no. And she was like, what? And I was like, I'm not about to like, just give my personal details to somebody that's calling me out of the blue that I don't know what who you are or what you're about. And she was like, Okay, thank you, Miss Allen, we will send you a letter in the post. And then of course they don't send you a letter

in the post because they don't have your address. And it's nonsense. But hang on a minute. But if you get taken through security by your bank, they, that, because I've now had a conversation with the fake person and then my bank the next day. And it's the same thing. He does say like, okay, can I get you

to confirm your date of birth? Can I get you to confirm where you live? It's just a change in word, but he might not know. Yeah but you should never do it when they're calling you. Always say okay I'll call you back. Yes okay and this is the fucked up thing. And then go through official channels so get the number off of the official website. Like I don't I will never if someone cold calls me and ask me for my details it's a straight no. Okay. Like I don't care.

I will never make that mistake again. But this is the fucked up thing. After about 20 minutes, I was like, this is a bit weird. And then they said, someone's trying to spend thousands and thousands of pounds on a car hire in Birmingham. So basically to scare you, to scare you, to scare you. I said, can you send me a verification code?

And he did. And they now have fake ones of those. Like, it didn't come through my app. I should have seen the difference, but I just saw a code and went, okay, cool. So everyone watch out for those as well. Cause I didn't know that fake versions of that existed. And then anyway, he told me to go have some privacy

and then asked me to move loads of money to this like safe account with the code name. I mean, this is why I feel so silly, with the code name E-B-A-Y. I was like eBay? He's like yeah and I was like okay but because the space was in my bank and on my app I thought it was safe anyway they just took loads of my money and my bank have said they're gonna do everything they can to get it back but it's not a guarantee that I'll get it back, it's just completely fucked me,

actually. So it's just shitty all around. And also because I spoke to him, is this weird? Because I spoke to him in my bedroom, because he asked me to go and have privacy, I now feel like really violated because he was lying, this person, this stranger was lying to me in my home as it were.

Like I don't know. But I don't wanna give them too much air time. I think that's enough of those dirty bastard scammers. But yes, I think the government are putting things in place because it's just rife at the moment. And older people, vulnerable people with a lot less money than me who are just completely fucked when something like this happens.

It happens all the time to them. That's who they prey on. And I think we should just all be more aware and tell each other what we can to keep each other safe. I'm not even joking. Serious ting. Also beware of emotional scammers in the world too. Not just the ones trying to get to your bank account,

but the ones trying to get to your head, okay? That's right, protect your neck out there, people. Look after yourselves in this fucking fuckery of a month. Let's just drink a hot chocolate and wear nice jumpers. Just deal with it. The best way we can, I'm gonna be calling you quite a lot this week, Lily. Should we call this show The Beautiful and the Scammed?

The Beautiful and the Scammed! Oh, I would love to call it that, Lily. The Beautiful and the Scammed. Done. Alright, I should go, but I will be checking in with you every five minutes this week. I hope that's okay. Because I'm a bit worried about you. And.

Oh, I thought it was because you needed my support. Not just because you, yeah, but I suppose, yeah. We're here for each other. Bit of both. We're here for each other. It's an exchange. You are not nagging me if you call me every 10 minutes. So you're all right.

And I want you to feel the same. Thank you for your enduring support and counsel. I appreciate it very much. You're so welcome, my darling. I will see you on Monday for Listen, Bitch. That will be fun. Interiors, that will be nice as you sit there in your floral covered office and your leopard print chair. You know your shit. I'm very happy for it to become a bit of a weird changing rooms episode. That's fine by me. I's that's what we all need some like 90s nostalgic telly will be your changing rooms this Monday. If you don't know what that is get ready.

It's gonna blow your mind. I'll be Laurence Llewellyn Bowen and you can be Anna Ryder Richardson. Okay I'll take it. All right sweetie pie I will call you in five minutes. Okay bye. I'll take it. All right, sweetie pie, I will call you in five minutes. Okay, bye. Bye.

Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Meketa Oliver. This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. Who done it? Crime conundrums. Murderous mayhem. Why are you doing my voice?

I'm just getting in the mood for our new podcast. Murder They Wrote. Hey, I'm Laura Whitmore. And I'm Ian Sterling. Now anyone who knows us knows we are obsessed with true crime. We're here with a new podcast exploring the dastardly deeds of history's most atrocious criminals. There'll be mystery, madness and moments of... Oh my god.

Murder They Wrote with Laura Whitmore and Ian Sterling. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome to Origins with me, Kush Jumbo, the show where the biggest names in entertainment tell me the stories that made them who they are today. Origins is a conversation about my guests' early inspirations and growing up. Guests this season include Dame Anna Winter, Poppy Delevingne, Pete Capaldi,

and Golda Rushaval, aka Queen Charlotte in Bridgerton. I only discovered my sexuality when I went to drama school. Join me every week to hear where it all began. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Origins with Kuss Jumbo.