Miss Me? - The Rom Con

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver discuss robots, rom coms and whether men and women can be just friends.This episode contains very strong language and adult themes. Credits: Producer: Flossie Barratt Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Production Coordinator: Hannah Bennett Executive Producers: Dino Sofos and Ellie Clifford Assistant Commissioner for BBC: Lorraine Okuefuna Commissioning Editor for BBC: Dylan Haskins Miss Me? is a Persephonica production for BBC Sounds

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. This episode of Miss Me contains some very strong language and some adult themes. Hello! Hi Lil. Hi. How are you today? I'm okay. I'm in Atlanta, Atlanta Georgia in another home. Yes. This home is our Atlanta home Yeah, I flew down here on Friday and I've been here for the weekend. So what was the surprise when I talked to you guys in the car the other day? You were like you just saw the surprise. Oh

Okay Keep that little private surprise a little private surprise. A little private surprise. Guys, I've had labiaplasty. I just got it out. You just saw it, babes. You can't make me laugh. I'm so ill when I laugh, I sound like I'm dying. So I don't want to laugh today.

Okay? Okay. No more laughing. What are you doing there? How come we're all here? Is it fall break? I came here to visit my husband and also separate my children for a bit. So I came down here with Marnie, the youngest one,

and Ethel is in New York with my cousins, Gracie and Iris, and they had like a big girl weekend in New York, and me and Marnie and David have been hanging out down here. But when you say separate, is it because they're driving each other crazy or you just do that every now and then? They just need a little bit. Sometimes they just need a little bit of separation. They're so close in age. They're 13 months apart. So it can get quite intense. I miss you. I could really do with a hug.

I'm coming back in a couple of weeks. I can wait till then. I'll'm coming back in a couple of weeks. I can't wait that I can wait till then I'm a hug in a couple weeks. We could come out to New York. No, I couldn't possibly I'm so busy But I did get really ill about four days ago. So I was just in bed Well, the thing is if you have a dog, you can't have a lion. I'm sure people understand that with kids you can't have a lion. I'm sure people understand that with kids. Yeah. Same with Joe.

Yes, I'm sure all mothers and fathers are like, because actually, blessed, she lets me sleep till about eight. But I had to get up every morning with the worst flu and do like a two hour walk. And I'm just like deeply in my dog. I'm not calling myself a dog mom. In my dog in my life game. Era, in your dog era. I'm in calling myself a dog mom in my dog in my life game era in your dog era dog era and

It's just so chatty having a dog. It's so chatty Everyone just is very open people with dogs you go to the marshes and everyone just like is like, oh, how you doing? I think they know each other and I can never fucking remember so I'm like, oh, yeah, then he loves her But people are really an extension of their pets so there comes quite a lot of like like you have a standard line that you say about your dog mine is oh she's such a tart because she always goes on her back and spread her legs spread her legs for anyone is Eddie but after like the sixth dog what you can do come up with another line so I I just walk around going, oh, she's such a hot constantly like some crazy old dog lady. But it's really nice. I feel like I've met an entire new part of my community by having a dog. I don't know

where they all were before. Yeah, it's interesting. I like that that does that. It's sort of what I imagine life was like before phones. Oh yeah, yeah, chatty and interacty. Yeah, like people engaging with each other, asking for directions, that sort of thing. Like now. Asking for the time.

Yeah. Lily. Yeah. Elon Musk has given the world his robots this week, so I think we're quite lucky that it's only phones to worry about for now, because these sort of dark about how can I cuss them out do I have to be like polite they look like rapists in mosques in ski mosques I just feel okay and they look like they could attack you at any point.

I mean, I guess they could if somebody programmed them to. Well, quite. Yeah. The fleet of personal robots. What do you think about this introduction into the universe from Elon Musk? Thanks, Elon. I do like a clean house. I feel like, you know, if I could have a robot that could fulfill my domestic needs. But

then I saw something about like them being sex robots at some point as well, which, well, it's funny actually, because I saw this article about it and the headline was like, there was a picture of a woman in bed with the robot and the husband like walking in on his wife and the robot. And I thought, that's interesting that they've framed it. I would have thought that it's far more likely that you'll see a man sleeping with his female robot. Correct. But also the headline was like, you know,

these robots are gonna like ruin marriages. Actually, maybe they'll be what keeps marriages alive. If you're using it to do the washing up, not if you're sleeping with it at night time in the cellar. Well, I don't know because a lot of marriages, the physical attraction between a husband and wife, there are ups and downs, right? Ebs and flows. So if you could have those needs met by, you know, a third party

where there's definitely no emotional connection. Terry the robot downstairs. Yeah. Servicing both of you. It's interesting because they do have a male energy, don't they? They feel like blokes. They don't feel like women. I mean, I've not met one yet, so I can't tell you. From what I saw, there was very much like, this is a guy in a ski mask, as it were, with no empathy or trauma. No, it's a male. So a bloke. No, absolutely not. This is not the space for that. But I do think that if I was sleeping at night time and that being was in my home, pretending to be asleep as well, I would just be like,

I'm going to be attacked by this thing. I just, I don't know a woman that would feel safe with that in their house. I've asked around. Not many people were into it. Would you feel safe with just a sleeping man in your house? One I trusted, not the wrong one. Just some stranger. I think it's very important to have the right man in your home. Absolutely.

I think we've got a clip of Elon introducing these robots. Yeah, let's hear his creepy little voice. The Optimus robots will walk among you. Please be nice to the Optimus robots. It'll be able to do anything you want. So it can be a teacher, babysit your kids, it can walk your dog, mow your lawn, get the groceries, just be your friend, serve drinks. Whatever you can think of, it will do.

Can you imagine how unvibe that bar would be? What can I get you? Sounds like the shit is far off. I think you've had enough. Someone said though, don't worry, they actually haven't made the technology for them to be able to do this yet. They're just saying that this is what their plans are and they'd love to be able to complete them soon.

Yeah, I think like the cleaning of the house would be helpful. I mean, I did read somewhere that like they could babysit. I don't know if I'd really be up for like leaving my kids with the robot. That would feel strange. And is that because you don't feel like you can trust the robot? I don't think that it's, I think that the robot would like abuse my children, but I just feel like in the case of an emergency, can I really rely on the robot to do the right thing?

Who's programming the robot to give it its, where is its moral compass? They doesn't have one, which is why I think that they in turn could act like... It must do. It must have like a... It must be sort of like based on like sort of modern like Christian values. Oh my god. Yes, probably. But it's, I think it's like the Tin Man.

No heart, which makes a very different character. Like what they call a sociopath. Yeah. Don't they say they have no empathy? which makes a very different character. Like, what are they called? A sociopath. Yeah. Don't they say they have no empathy? So it's like kind of weird sociopathic creations wandering our streets and you can get a drink from them in the bar.

It's just not a world I'm looking forward to. I think we'll be all right for a minute. What is a sociopath? Is that somebody that doesn't adhere to societal norms? No, I think it's you don't, I think it's someone without empathy. So in turn you act incredibly badly because you have no empathy.

Yeah, but who writes the rules of like when you should feel empathetic towards somebody? Those rules are based in- Moral Christian values. Yeah. So who's really in charge, though? Should we move on? Let's move on.

Oh, you know, I did see an interesting piece of technology, and this is where technology is nuts. As you know, I'm building a business, and for some reason that took us to a vibrator site the other day. All will be revealed. And I was with my cousin Solomon because he's working on this project with me and it's funny because boys are still so funny about like he's like oh it's mad I was like what this

the vibrator is he was like yeah it's just a mad thing I was like is it he's 30 he's about to be 30 And then then they showed this new male Masturbator and it's like this tunnel Funnel if you will That throbs and he was like, oh no, that's quite interesting Yeah, try out and it was quite interesting to see to see him kind of be his whole idea of a sex toy and what it Means be completely shifted because there was something for him and his pleasure and it is very techie this thing so I thought oh that's quite a good use of technology the male masturbator

rather than robots to kill us in our sleep. So I think that's how we'll end this section. More male masturbators. Oh the boys in the studio are like, wow, sure, they got a drawer full of like designer vaginas. Okay, anyway, let's move on. You know what I saw this weekend was The Apprentice, the Donald Trump. I can't believe that show is still on television in America. No, not the television show. It's a film about Donald Trump, Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Strong. Okay, you can understand my confusion

because there was a show and he was the host, no? Yeah, I think that's why it's called The Apprentice. But anyway, fascinating stuff. What is it about his life? Well, it's just about Donald Trump in the early days before he became the Donald Trump that we know and love now. But his Sebastian Stan's portrayal of Donald Trump

was so amazing, so grounded, like so hard to play someone that we all know all of their mannerisms and so easy to go down a sort of like pastiche route with it and it to feel comedic and it just didn't. It was so subtle. Like it was, you just have to go and see it. It was so, he was so good.

But that's great because I think that's when you start to be faced with those kinds of questions of like, why do we do the things we do? And why do we become the people we become? That's very much what this is at the heart of this film. And it is, I don't think I came out of it feeling like, oh, Donald Trump's such a great guy. But it was certainly enlightening in some ways. It humanized him?

No, it made you understand how you could get to a place like that. Yes. I think you might be. I'm having that at the moment with the writing that I'm doing with Jesse on the crime series because we're writing a villain. And it's been interesting because we're writing, we're having to write him as a boy and everything that happens to him and where he goes to school and what his parents are like. And you're like, oh, that's how you create a villain. You have to show all the things that happen to them. You know what I mean? Like it's actually been revelatory. I'm really enjoying writing. It's been bringing me a lot of joy and I'm writing sort of three or four

very, very different things with people that we love. So that's been great. But I did get, for one thing, the column that I'm writing, I got it sent back. And it was all like bleeding, covered in red lines and scribbles and notes. And Autumn that I worked with, who went to school and university and graduated and, you know, has had a computer for a very long time. Sorry, that's a weird thing to say, but I haven't. She's had a computer for ages. Like head of her game.

But she is used to that kind of process of essay writing and then delivering something and having it handed back with notes. I was just like, he hates me. He thinks I'm shit. Who's he? My new editor. So it was quite intense to be like, like I still haven't even done, like I have the meeting tomorrow, but I was just like, the first thought was I'm being criticized. How do you do it? I want to save criticism for listen bitch but how if you're writing a song there are times when someone will go that's

not very good right? Not really I mean not because everything I write is brilliant but I mean maybe sometimes when I'm writing with Americans they don't understand a turn of phrase or something, but I really don't care what other people have to say about my music. So maybe I should just not care so much. But I do care, because he's my editor, and I want to, I'm not writing it for myself,

I'm writing it for them. Yeah, I understand that. And I think that, you know, writing a record and writing music is different in that sense because it is a vehicle of self-expression. I don't have to adhere to certain rules that you would have to subscribe to if you're writing for a newspaper or something.

So, or even like the rules that we have to subscribe to, just expressing ourselves on this show because there are rules, rules, parameters. Yeah, you know that we've always had this in our life and I've always been so jealous because in our jobs, I've always had a boss in a way that you didn't. Like I've always had someone to reprimand me like, Makeda, you're late. And like, you would always be like, you know, I mean, you would like have a drink before going on stage and I was like, my God, isn't she gonna get in trouble?

It's like, from whom? Like, I've always had authority in my career and I feel like you've had this kind of level of freedom that I didn't have. That just brought it up for me just now thinking about like rules. I was like, yeah, there are usually rules in my game. In a way there's not so much for you I think. Yeah. Bit more of an artist.

Well, I don't know about that, but, well I mean I suppose, listen, I've had reviews. I've had bad reviews. Oh yeah, not very many, but, you know. The occasional bad reviews. Well, when I did the Pillow Man, the play, the reviews were pretty bad. I don't understand.

That I couldn't get. You're so unbelievably excellent. And I really struggled with it, actually. I think we kind of, Yeah. maybe have talked about it a little bit on this show, but maybe not. I don't feel like I have.

But it was funny because it wasn't really about the criticism and in the reviews that upset me so much. It was more the having to deal with the humiliation of it with people that I loved. Like I hated having to call my mom and be vulnerable. Be like, all right, I'm failed. I got a bad review, mommy. Not even, it was more like, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. I got a bad review, mummy. Not even, it was more like, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine.

Obviously I've got some work to do, but it's funny, like with my family, it comes up between me and David as well, because he gets upset that we never really talk about his work that much. And it's like a source of anxiety for me. Like we don't really talk about the content of our work in our family.

We'll talk about our achievements and accolades, but I don't think I've ever really had like an in-depth conversation with my mom about my songs. Creativity, yes. That's all me and my mum talk about. Yeah, see, we don't really do that. So I think that, like, you know, when somebody came in and said,

you know, Lily Allen's performance is one note or it's stale or something, then, you know, and it made me feel sad and exposed in a certain way, then I had to talk to my mom about it and it made me real all of a sudden. I didn't want to have to acknowledge me being a real person that could be fallible. Yeah. Also, I think that not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but most of my music, apart from Maybe Jesus, has been pretty well received critically. And I'd never really had to... You know, success is a way of me avoiding intimacy, you know?

As long as everyone knows that like, Lily's okay, she's doing well, she's number one in the charts, like the album's selling, the tour's tickets are all on sale. I don't have to then like be a person. It's like, no, this is me. The successful person that's busy. Okay, so thank you, goodbye. And when it's not that,

it's a little bit more difficult for me to deal with. It's like I'm a person in the world and people don't love me and now I have to deal with that. I totally understand and there is a fear there. I think that I got told, like you, the first thing I started doing I was very good at and told that I was very gifted at this thing. So when I lost all that, I didn't know who the fuck I was. I was like, who the hell am I if I'm not on this set doing this thing that everyone told me I was very good at? And now becoming a writer, especially of drama, building a business, developing these ideas, it's scary because I haven't been told I'm really good at that yet.

Yeah. But I just can't not do it because I'm enjoying it. So I think somewhere within there is the answer, which is how does it make you feel? And it makes me feel great. All right well should we have a break because we're gonna pep it up after and talk about rom-coms like a good classic podcast should. We will see you after the bloody break. See you after the break, babe. Welcome back, everybody. Lily. Yes?

Do you and David watch much TV together? Are there things that you love watching together? We do, but we like different things. Flossie, who works on our show, was like, the wrong comms bar, I was like, Flossie, I need some hard evidence. Then she sent us a Guardian article, now we know it's true, so we will discuss it. But there is a show on Netflix right now, yeah, I watched it, yeah, I watched all 10 episodes called Nobody Wants This.

Have you seen it? Kristen Bell. I have not seen it. She's like a feisty podcaster. I was like, okay, with her sister. Oh, God. I was like, this is all a little too much. And they like talk about sex.

I was like, Oh, my God, this is us with such ourselves. And then she falls in love with a rabbi. Right. It's like that. And the rabbi is Seth Cohen from the OC. Very clever Netflix. Very clever. Round of applause. Because at the moment, I don't want to say this to you. I don't want to say this to a household of actors, but it's shaky in the cinema game. You know, they went through the strike. It's been really hard in your game and their game for a few years. But then you make a romantic comedy with Anne Hathaway, stick a young pretty boy in it and you get like 500 million views. I mean, I don't, that's not an official amount, but this, no one wants

this. 26 million people watched it in 10 days. Why would you ever make a film again? You know what I mean? Well, in the pursuit of artistry, you know, it's like... Oh, that. I feel like there's so much stress on success, right? Yeah, it's a toughie. Should we talk about the romantic comedies of our day that made us happy?

Yeah, we can. But I'm also like just a little bit sick. I feel like where we are now, politically, socially, like I feel like we've come a long way. Do we have to go back there to see the sort of like fairy tale reflected, like sort of heterosexual monogamous and I found the one kind of stuff. Yes, soulmate, death without the finding of the soulmate. It just seems so like unrealistic that it's like why are we perpetuating this like narrative?

I don't know. Well, what's quite interesting is if you think about these two new things that are on Netflix, the Anne Hathaway one and the Kristen Bell, Adam Brody one, they've tried to fuck with the formula a bit, but then they get scared. So in the beginning, it's like, actually, she's 40 and he's 24 and he's in a boy band. Like, oh my God, this is like upside down. And then at the end, they fall in love and they're together and it's okay. Nothing, nobody wants this. He's a rabbi. She's a podcaster. This is all modern and crazy and we're living in the real world and there are non-binary people here. But in the end, they get together

because that's what people need and that's what they're always given and fed. Yeah. And I guess like the fact that it's had such high viewing figures is that people find like there's like a safety to it but yeah you know I don't know if that safety exists in the real world. That's something I'm learning. And just having children who are you know at the beginning of their puberty journey I guess it's like the idea you know opening up those conversations about relationships and how they work and you know, all they've really had thus far is like what they've read in the books and what they see in the movies. And it's like, that's not how

it works in the real world. Do we want to crush their little hearts so early? Well, maybe it's better to crush their hearts early so that their hearts don't get crushed when they're, you know're older, like inevitably. Are you trying to tell me that love doesn't exist? Is that what you're trying to say? No, I just don't think that it's as... We don't see that many films or TV shows about how complicated relationships are. And it's a little bit about the same view that I have about parenthood and motherhood is that like, we never really get the real story. And then

it comes along and it happens in real life. And you're like, hang on a second, this is not what has been reflected to me like throughout my life. I thought this was going to be like a fairy tale. And was... A nightmare. Yeah, not a nightmare, but you know what I mean? It's just like why are we so reluctant to confront reality? Do we need escapism? Yes, I think so. Do we need to create these fantasies for some sort of sense of security? Yes, I think it is about safety. And I think some people would rather live in a fantasy

that's safe and deal with the reality of their life or world that possibly doesn't feel so safe. I don't feel that safe today. I could do with a fucking romantic comedy. But in all seriousness, wouldn't it actually make you feel better to see a real relationship reflected? And then it would make you feel less like you're chasing after this ideal. Because maybe messy is okay, you know? Yeah, but that's why I've been watching a lot of life films and biographies, because I think what's more interesting than romantic love and the sort of dastardly pursuit of it

is the way a life looks. And it can look so many different ways. I could also die tomorrow. So I've just been being inspired by all the different ways people have led their lives, not all the different ways we've been fed a lie. But then you have like, when Harry met Sally, and the reason I'm talking about this

is because I watched the Nora Ephron documentary because I wanted to hear about her life. Nora Ephron, most incredible screenwriter, who wrote brilliant romantic comedies, but with real... She's very smart, witty, and she posed a lot of questions. And in, I think, 87, she writes When Harry Met Sally, and she poses the question, can men and women ever really be friends?

And I think it's probably quite a dated question and it feels a little archaic, but I still think it's worth the discussion because I think absolutely men and women can be friends. But I do have someone in my life that recently said to me that they think they might have feelings for someone that they've known for over 10 years. Again that might be what you're saying if chasing a fairy tale or a fantasy or is it a true feeling? I mean I've personally had sex with quite a few of my male friends. Oh I know. When I was young. You too, you too though. What are you talking about? I mean we were in our 20s. I think that's just what you do. Like poor old Charlie Crockett. Like everyone had a base. Did I?

Yes. Yep. So Charlie Crockett was an early male relationship in all of our lives. He was sort of everyone's, mainly Phoebe's best friend, but he was sort of our male friend of our gangs, of our crews for a very long time, right? You see that. Yeah. I have to say, I think that pretty much all of my male friendships, there is a undertone of repression there.

Sexual? Yeah. From both sides? Well, I can't speak for them. But I think that like, you know, the idea of being with that person romantically exists there. Yes. I'm not wanting to act on it ever.

But I think that for most of them, it's like, yeah, I can see how that could happen. It would be churlish to pretend that that thought doesn't cross your mind in a relationship with a man. Do you think your relationship with your dad, like not you, but one, one's relationship with their dad affects the way they have all their relationship with just the romantic ones? I can't believe you're even asking that. No, what I was just going to say is it not just things. Fuck.

Fuck. I'm fucked. I mean, I'm in a great place with my dad now, but I just think all that childhood stuff is just not going to help, is it? No. Wait, I've got, instead of us just us old birds just banging on about it. Jordan, well, our family, our cousin Jordan from a band called Rizzle Kicks, he's also a writer. I discussed his fantastic book. He has a sub stack and he's written an article and it was

him asking Libby. So I have an uncle, Warren, again in male relationship in my life that I love very much. And his daughter is called Libby and Jordan has watched Libby so I have an uncle Warren again in male relationship in my life that I love very much and his daughter is called Libby and Jordan has watched Libby grow up and she is 23 now 22 and she said this this is quite interesting to know what a 23 year old girl thinks about her relationships with men now that are not romantic I think boys specifically that I keep around me are super sweet and intelligent emotionally emotionally, creatively and intellectually. I can share my secrets with them and I feel safe and loved and heard.

I think that many boys that I know are built up with frustration and it can come out in defensive, horrible ways, but I think that they all need more nurturing and love. I think men need to be around women and women need to be around men. Speak it, Libby. Do you agree with that?

Yeah. Bit more. Bit more, darling. Well, I think it's a bit you agree with that? Yeah. Bit more. Bit more, darling. I think it's a bit more complex than that. Yeah. Speaking of 23 year old women and men, last night I was, I told you that Gracie, my cousin, and Iris, my other younger cousin in New York

looking after my daughter. Yeah, what's Iris now, like 19? Yeah, something like that, 18, 19. And they were in the spare bedroom and there was like, the smoke alarm was beeping. And I was like, gosh, that's really annoying, that noise, like just take the battery out of it. And so Gracie went and took the battery out and then these alarms just started going off like crazy.

And I got a phone call from the security company saying, you know, the smoke alarms are going off. There's a fire at your house. And I was like, no, no, no, it's false alarm. Don't worry about it. And so I thought I'd, you know, got rid of the problem. And then two minutes later, two huge fire engines pulled up outside the house. What for the Phantom Fire? Yeah. And Gracie said that like 17 firemen were suddenly in the house. And like looking around going, this is a really nice house.

And I was like... Classic New York fireman. I was like, ooh, Revelation, if I ever get lonely, I know what to do. Just take the battery out. Take the battery out. She was like, we made a massive lasagna as well. We should have invited them all in to stay and had lasagna. And I was like, just take the other batteries out.

They'll come back in a minute. Get around again. That would be a good way to sort of live out that fireman fantasy. Because the other day I was like, found out that someone I know is dating this fit footballer who I've always really fancy, but he was just like not on the market and I'll tell you after and I was like so I could still sleep with a footballer before I die okay she's like 42 I was like okay that's good because there are quite a few professions like definitely a fireman and definitely a footballer. What about Cole Palmer in the Burberry advert did

you see that him fishing? Yeah fit, fit actually. Fuck yeah. Fit? Who would have thought just like Cole Palmer just fishing would be so fit? I swear Burberry just make people look fit. Do you know what? I really have to go. I really do. I'm ill and I've got work to do. I love you so much. Thank you. You cheered me up today. Oh no, you've been great today. My absolute pleasure. OK, I love you. I'll call you later. Because yeah, please tell you about that gossip. Bye. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver.

This is a Persephoneca production for BBC Sounds. My name is Annie MacManus. And my name is Nick Grimshaw. How long have we known each other, babe? Probably 20 years now. And in that time, we've always worked in and around music, right? We have. So it kind of makes sense that we do a podcast about it.

It sounds like it's been 20 years in the making. It's not avatar for podcasts, basically, but it is good. So we put the world to rights with regards to music. It's all the stuff that you'd want to chat to your mate about over a pint. Side tracked with us, Annie and Nick. Listen on BBC Sounds.